MBB: Duke 74, VaTech 52 Post-Game Thread

[JBDuke]

Put your post-game thoughts here.

[DarkstarWahoo]

Bless y’all.

[OldPhiKap]

Grayson. Yay.

[WHOneedsSOX]

Missed the game. Was Duke's defense good or Virginia Tech's offense bad?

[jwillfan]

Loved to see Grayson look so good and relaxed. Javin's breakout game?

[pfrduke]

I asked this in the in-game thread: we went to a different defense around 9 minutes or so to go in the second half - what was it? It looked a little like a 1-3-1, although the way VT was spread out we ended up with 3 guys outside the 3-point line on it. Either way, it was effective - it closed down a lot of the gaps VT had been finding.

[Les Grossman]

All three looked good.

Carter was a beast. Hubie compared him to Moses Malone. High praise indeed

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Missed the game. Was Duke's defense good or Virginia Tech's offense bad?

yes.

[fuse]

Satisfying. Particularly the second half.

[lotusland]

Accidentally nullified my reverse jinx but successfully reversed the nullification just in time. Your welcome!

[CameronDuke]

2-0 without Bagley this week Grayson found his shot again. The zone was effective. Defensive rebounding! Duke held Virginia Tech to one shot for many possessions.

[flyingdutchdevil]

1. Duke is better offensively with Bagley. No questions asked.

2. Duke is better defensively without Bagley. No questions asked.

3. Grayson is better without Bagley. No questions asked.

[dragoneye776]

1. Duke is better offensively with Bagley. No questions asked.


Whoa whoa whoa there

[ehdg]

Grayson put together back to back good games finally. Played much better after the opening 8 minutes as we stopped turning the ball over. Trent n Wendall played really good again. Good win!

[drummerdevil]

Whoa whoa whoa there

Don’t dispute it, he’s one of the best offensive players in the country and our offense looks lost at times without him

[dragoneye776]

Don’t dispute it, he’s one of the best offensive players in the country and our offense looks lost at times without him

I know I know, I'm joking

[MartyClark]

1. Duke is better offensively with Bagley. No questions asked.

2. Duke is better defensively without Bagley. No questions asked.

3. Grayson is better without Bagley. No questions asked.

I agree with #3. Grayson is better offensively when you take away the Bagley option. Grayson is less deferential, needs to shoot, and shoots well.

Go Duke! Go Grayson! Go Bagley!

[ipatent]

A convincing and very important win.

[thedukelamere]

Not sure if it was mentioned in the chat or in-game thread, but what was up with the pocket of fans in the front 2-3 rows on the (tv) left side? Didn’t cheer, didn’t jump, just looked like non-students you’d see over Christmas break or something...

Great team win, and I thought our defense really showed some progress towards the end of the game. VT looked absolutely rattled.

[subzero02]

If Duval can learn to value the ball more and take better shots, we'll stand a much better chance in close games. He made a few bad plays at the very end of the game. A missed step back 3 when Alex was open on the wing... and a TO on a pass during a fast break chance( a made 3 was sandwiched between those plays though). I don't think he sees the big picture regarding game management as well as he needs to.

[bluenorth]

That was nice. The defense did look to be improved, with an adjustment to take away the high post. I thought that I saw a matchup once or twice, but couldn't be sure. Good to know that Allen still has the scoring touch. With all of the threes it almost looked like last year. Duval seemed to be improving, so what happened to O'Connell? Starts one game and then sits until garbage time. Did he have a bad practice?

[dragoneye776]

Not sure if it was mentioned in the chat or in-game thread, but what was up with the pocket of fans in the front 2-3 rows on the (tv) left side? Didn’t cheer, didn’t jump, just looked like non-students you’d see over Christmas break or something...


Heard it was really empty given valentine's day so those were indeed also non Duke students

[Henderson]

1. Duke is better offensively with Bagley. No questions asked.

2. Duke is better defensively without Bagley. No questions asked.

3. Grayson is better without Bagley. No questions asked.

I think in each case, you just meant "no question." "No questions asked" is something different.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think in each case, you just meant "no question." "No questions asked" is something different.

VDay + BDay + booze + duke game + foreigner = gimme a small break

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

VDay + BDay + booze + duke game + foreigner = gimme a small break
You were listening to Foreigner while watching the Duke game on Valentine’s Day?

[jwillfan]

VDay + BDay + booze + duke game + foreigner = gimme a small break

I knew what you meant. And pretty much agreed with all 3 points

[Furniture]

If Duval can learn to value the ball more and take better shots, we'll stand a much better chance in close games. He made a few bad plays at the very end of the game. A missed step back 3 when Alex was open on the wing... and a TO on a pass during a fast break chance( a made 3 was sandwiched between those plays though). I don't think he sees the big picture regarding game management as well as he needs to.

I just don’t get the bashing. Good win and Duval played good imho, at least he didn’t play bad. Then a whole post to bash one player...

Oh the hate!!!

[flyingdutchdevil]

You were listening to Foreigner while watching the Duke game on Valentine’s Day?

I guess our team chemistry is much like duke’s this year ;)

[SkyBrickey]

That's more like it - pretty close to a complete 40-minute game by our boys.

That's a very good win against a team that just knocked off the #1 team in the country.

We are improving. The defense and maybe the ball movement a little better without Bagley? Hopefully he takes note and steps up his game in those areas when he returns.

Allen and Trent can just flat out shoot...

[DarkstarWahoo]

You were listening to Foreigner while watching the Duke game on Valentine’s Day?

Come on man, you’re cold as ice.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I just don’t get the bashing. Good win and Duval played good imho, at least he didn’t play bad. Then a whole post to bash one player...

Oh the hate!!!

Couldn’t agree more. Duval was solid.

[FerryFor50]

1. Duke is better offensively with Bagley. No questions asked.

2. Duke is better defensively without Bagley. No questions asked.

3. Grayson is better without Bagley. No questions asked.

A little bit of recency bias there. I only agree with #3, but it's a limited sample size.

Duke was #2 in the country in offense with Bagley. So I think #1 is silly.

#2 is a bit more subjective, but I think having a healthy Delaurier and Bolden are factors in the defense looking better - not Bagley's absence.

Grayson definitely looks better without Bagley; that's likely because there's no question who option A is in the offense without Bagley in there. I think the offensive change that has mattered the most has been playing Allen at the point with Duval off ball.

[FerryFor50]

I just don’t get the bashing. Good win and Duval played good imho, at least he didn’t play bad. Then a whole post to bash one player...

Oh the hate!!!

It's also weird to bash him for his end of game decisions with the game well out of hand. Duke was up by nearly 30 at that point. He played well during the parts of the game that mattered most.

[Furniture]

Down go Nova!!!

[flyingdutchdevil]

A little bit of recency bias there. I only agree with #3, but it's a limited sample size.

Duke was #2 in the country in offense with Bagley. So I think #1 is silly.

#2 is a bit more subjective, but I think having a healthy Delaurier and Bolden are factors in the defense looking better - not Bagley's absence.

Grayson definitely looks better without Bagley; that's likely because there's no question who option A is in the offense without Bagley in there. I think the offensive change that has mattered the most has been playing Allen at the point with Duval off ball.

1. Is a no brained, so I guess you have to agree. I just don’t think Bagley is a good defender. He’s like Jabari Parker on that end: really bad at reading opposing offenses. Ain’t nothing wrong with that; he’s a freshman. Hopefully he gets better. But I absolutely think this team is better defensively without Bags.

[thedukelamere]

Come on man, you’re cold as ice.

I’m glad that the Dirty White Boy has been in MOTM consideration for 2 straight games.

[TJ99]

Not sure if it was mentioned in the chat or in-game thread, but what was up with the pocket of fans in the front 2-3 rows on the (tv) left side? Didn’t cheer, didn’t jump, just looked like non-students you’d see over Christmas break or something...

Great team win, and I thought our defense really showed some progress towards the end of the game. VT looked absolutely rattled.

Jay Williams was in the group. He was front row in student section.

[53n206]

Like some of our games of old--constant pressure, good offense.

[FerryFor50]

1. Is a no brained, so I guess you have to agree. I just don’t think Bagley is a good defender. He’s like Jabari Parker on that end: really bad at reading opposing offenses. Ain’t nothing wrong with that; he’s a freshman. Hopefully he gets better. But I absolutely think this team is better defensively without Bags.

I don't think he's bad at reading opposing offenses. I think he's bad at pick and roll defense and on-ball perimeter defense. But I don't think he's a bad defender. He blocks shots, gets rebounds and reads passing lanes decently.

[DarkstarWahoo]

I’m glad that the Dirty White Boy has been in MOTM consideration for 2 straight games.

I had another reply typed out and was ready to hit “post” when I realized I was quoting Foghat.

[UrinalCake]

It didn't seem to me like Grayson was getting better shots than he's been getting all year, he just hit them today. Not sure if that was a coincidence or that his mindset is different without Bagley or what, but regardless it was great to see him knock them down.

As for VT, I know those were the same physical players that beat Virginia over the weekend but man it's hard to believe it. They just looked totally out of sync and couldn't get anything going. While Cameron is a tougher place to play than JPJ arena, I doubt that completely accounted for the difference. So great effort defensively by our guys, especially Javin but really everyone brought it and maintained it for the whole game which is what we've been asking for.

Agree that the defense looked different over the last 10 or so minutes. It was like the 2-3 zone but we dropped back one of the wing players to cover the guy standing in the middle by the free throw line (which had been wide open all night). Really nice adjustment.

Overall a very satisfying win and a baby step towards getting where we want this team to be. Hope Bagley is back soon. The fact that we didn't change our offense but ran the same system that we would with him in there is maybe an indication that we don't expect him to be out long.

[FerryFor50]

It didn't seem to me like Grayson was getting better shots than he's been getting all year, he just hit them today. Not sure if that was a coincidence or that his mindset is different without Bagley or what, but regardless it was great to see him knock them down.


Grayson wasn't hesitating on his shot. As soon as he caught it, it was out of his hand. Previously, it seemed like he was thinking about it too much and wasn't releasing it cleanly.

[subzero02]

I just don’t get the bashing. Good win and Duval played good imho, at least he didn’t play bad. Then a whole post to bash one player...

Oh the hate!!!

Critiquing and hatred are completely different things. I love Duval and he has off the charts potential however my criticisms are legitimate concerns and his turnovers have been specifically mentioned by the coaching staff to the press. I missed the first half but liked what I saw from him for most of the second half. That said, the sequence I described left me shaking my head.

I liked what I saw from Bolden. He needs to try to control the force behind his blocks a bit better. It seems like he could almost catch the ball some of the time or maybe keep it in play. He really is rounding into form nicely. Javin had some nice plays as well.

[goduke03861]

Coach K just said that this team will be a zone team for the rest of the year. Major statement there. One I agree with.

[lukeeverettnc]

1. Duke is better offensively with Bagley. No questions asked.

2. Duke is better defensively without Bagley. No questions asked.

3. Grayson is better without Bagley. No questions asked.


Re: #2 -- Duke has played zone for the entire game three times this season: the three times that Bagley didn't play. You can blame Bagley if you want, but it's not like there's anything close to a controlled sample. (In fact, I would say that Duke's defense has been the best with Bagley in a zone; namely second half of Miami, FSU, UVA games.)

Re: #3 -- Same comment. Maybe Grayson is better because Bagley isn't in there. But maybe the guy who plays 40 minutes a game does better when he doesn't have to run around in an impossibly outdated, exhausting brand of defense all game.

I hope that the answer isn't "We're better without one of the three most talented players in the country," because if that's true, it's a heck of an indictment, either on him or on Grayson.

[Ian]

Coach K just said that this team will be a zone team for the rest of the year. Major statement there. One I agree with.

It's a long overdue move. Carter is a monster defending the low blocks but he can't do it if he's constantly getting switched onto guards at the 3 point line.

[FerryFor50]

I felt like, during the game, just from watching, that the Duke defense was doing a pretty solid job.

Then I went to the box scores. Wow!

- Held Justin Robinson to 2-10 shooting for 5 points. He averages nearly 14 ppg and had been on a tear lately; 20 against UVA, 32 against NCSU, 22 against Miami
- Held Blackshear to 9 points. He averages 13.
- Only one Hokie scored in double figures
- VT shot just 43% from the field, 35% from 3
- held VT to 52 points, which is 31 points below their season average
- Duke absolutely owned the glass (36-19 boards)

I found it interesting that we saw Vrank and White before Alex O'Connell and that O'Connell only played garbage minutes. Also found it interesting that K went back to a really short bench. Just 6 played over 10 minutes, with Bolden only playing spot minutes.

[Saratoga2]

Didn't look at the stats but I agree with the person who said it was quite a performance from Grayson, Wendell and Trent. Each of them had great games and I waited for the second half swoon, but it never happened. We seemed to play for the entire 40 minutes. Lots of energy, lots of blocks and altered shots, dominant rebounding. We did leave quite a few VT players open, particularly at the top of the key, but VT appeared rattled and didn't shoot well, nor did they get many second opportunities.

I thought Trevon had some really good minutes and also some freshman like plays, but it was an improvement so if he builds on that, we should get stronger and stronger. As far as drawing conclusions about the team beig better defensively without Marvin, I don't believe we can do that without fooling ourselves. Hope he gets back ASAP.

[ncexnyc]

Well that was totally unexpected, but without a doubt greatly appreciated.

Very nice games from Allen, Carter, and Trent. Bolden was solid and Javin didn't get tagged with any cheapies tonight, which is always a pleasant surprise.

I'll leave it at and throw in a big thank you for FSU.

[FerryFor50]

It's a long overdue move. Carter is a monster defending the low blocks but he can't do it if he's constantly getting switched onto guards at the 3 point line.

That and it keeps Carter on the floor longer. He doesn't get as winded, but there was a stretch late in the 2nd half where he seemed to really be struggling getting up and down the court.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Re: #2 -- Duke has played zone for the entire game three times this season: the three times that Bagley didn't play. You can blame Bagley if you want, but it's not like there's anything close to a controlled sample. (In fact, I would say that Duke's defense has been the best with Bagley in a zone; namely second half of Miami, FSU, UVA games.)

Re: #3 -- Same comment. Maybe Grayson is better because Bagley isn't in there. But maybe the guy who plays 40 minutes a game does better when he doesn't have to run around in an impossibly outdated, exhausting brand of defense all game.

I hope that the answer isn't "We're better without one of the three most talented players in the country," because if that's true, it's a heck of an indictment, either on him or on Grayson.

I think Duke is better WITH Bagley. He's a phenomenal offensive player.

And yeah, the sample size on games without Bags is small, but the games with Bags playing D is not. And he's not a good defender.

Luke Kennard was a hero offensively and a disaster defensively. Did you want Kennard starting? Of course you did! (and please don't try to defend Kennard's D. That's as factual as Roy Williams looks like Deputy Dog)

[DU82]

I asked this in the in-game thread: we went to a different defense around 9 minutes or so to go in the second half - what was it? It looked a little like a 1-3-1, although the way VT was spread out we ended up with 3 guys outside the 3-point line on it. Either way, it was effective - it closed down a lot of the gaps VT had been finding.

From up in the end zone later in the first half, at times it looked like a 4-1 zone, with either Antonio or Carter/Bolden playing just in front of the defensive arc. I know it was mostly Javin playing the perimeter since all the VT players were standing outside the 3 point line, but it was working (well, Antonio wasn't great in his couple of minutes there.)

[DU82]

Coach K just said that this team will be a zone team for the rest of the year. Major statement there. One I agree with.

Watch we come out against Clemson in a M2M.

[ncexnyc]

I hope that the answer isn't "We're better without one of the three most talented players in the country," because if that's true, it's a heck of an indictment, either on him or on Grayson.

Of course it doesn't have to say anything about either player, but maybe it does say something about the offensive scheme we are using. Maybe we need to treat MBIII as more of a stretch 4, to keep the lanes open.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Of course it doesn't have to say anything about either player, but maybe it does say something about the offensive scheme we are using. Maybe we need to treat MBIII as more of a stretch 4, to keep the lanes open.

Can we please use Carter as the stretch "4"? He's soooooooooo much better as a shooter than Bagley.

[Fish80]

Great win. Lots of good. We’ll be even better when Bagley is back. Grayson hitting some shots is not related to Bagley. I think Grayson’s wrist and hand are getting healthy.

[westwall]

Grayson wasn't hesitating on his shot. As soon as he caught it, it was out of his hand. Previously, it seemed like he was thinking about it too much and wasn't releasing it cleanly.

So, can we finally forget about "the wrist"??

[flyingdutchdevil]

So, can we finally forget about "the wrist"??

The wrist is only a great excuse when he shoots poorly :D

[uh_no]

Coach K just said that this team will be a zone team for the rest of the year. Major statement there. One I agree with.

bout time k started listening to dbr.

next goal: Jack white forty minutes a game.

[lukeeverettnc]

I think Duke is better WITH Bagley. He's a phenomenal offensive player.

And yeah, the sample size on games without Bags is small, but the games with Bags playing D is not. And he's not a good defender.

Luke Kennard was a hero offensively and a disaster defensively. Did you want Kennard starting? Of course you did! (and please don't try to defend Kennard's D. That's as factual as Roy Williams looks like Deputy Dog)

That's a fair response to my post but I don't agree that Bagley is a bad defender (and no, I'm not going to defend Kennard's D). I actually think Bagley is pretty good ... when we are in a zone. And that's my main point. You can maximize his great offense without losing anything on D, and maybe gaining something.

In the end, I don't think that Duke's zone is just a lesser of two evils. I think it can be really really good with some reps.

[flyingdutchdevil]

bout time k started listening to dbr.

next goal: Jack white forty minutes a game.

A broken clock is right twice a day.

2nd time DBR is right? Grayson - stop hesitating, dammit. Play your game!

[FerryFor50]

So, can we finally forget about "the wrist"??

He didn't seem to be rubbing it at all today.

[uh_no]

A broken clock is right twice a day.

2nd time DBR is right? Grayson - stop hesitating, dammit. Play your game!

don't be so harsh! we're always right about beer and whiskey! and que.

[KandG]

If Duval can learn to value the ball more and take better shots, we'll stand a much better chance in close games. He made a few bad plays at the very end of the game. A missed step back 3 when Alex was open on the wing... and a TO on a pass during a fast break chance( a made 3 was sandwiched between those plays though). I don't think he sees the big picture regarding game management as well as he needs to.

The offending plays: Duval was playing with mostly bench players in the last two minutes with the team up 25. He missed a step back 3 with the shot clock running down, made a 3 to get the lead back up to 26 after a VA Tech basket, then had a turnover on a wild full court hit ahead pass to Robinson. He was then subbed out with 51 seconds left.

Before these garbage time plays which apparently cast his "big picture game management" in doubt, Trevon played a mostly controlled game, kept the ball moving, was active in Duke's zone, and kept his worst impulses (heads down dribbling, off kilter passes, ill advised gambles on defense) largely contained. I don't consider a couple of mistakes in garbage time to be indicative of how well he'll manage our chances in close games.

K played him 33 minutes after playing him 25 or less minutes in three of the last four games. I think he was fine with Duval's game management even though I'm sure there will be things he will continue to harp on to make sure his game evolves. I like the way Trevon is developing just fine personally.

[flyingdutchdevil]

don't be so harsh! we're always right about beer and whiskey! and que.

you folks are obsessed with IPA. So no, you ain't right on beer. :D

devildeac - you have the right to flame me. But I stand by my European beer choices

[HereBeforeCoachK]

bout time k started listening to dbr.
.

Well Jay Will was in the house tonight, and Jay Will has been all over Duke on ESPN to realize that they simply are a zone team, that they are not a man to man team. I agree with Jay. I'm fired up that K has reached the same conclusion.

[ipatent]

Anyone have a link to postgame comments?

[uh_no]

you folks are obsessed with IPA. So no, you ain't right on beer. :D

devildeac - you have the right to flame me. But I stand by my European beer choices

i mean, you're talking to a guy that would rather drink ein maß festbier than anything

[dm9e24]

Heard it was really empty given valentine's day so those were indeed also non Duke students

You heard wrong. Not a lot of empty seats and student seats were full

[Rich]

Anyone have a link to postgame comments?

Go to www.goduke.com. Click Video and there's a tab for Press Conferences.

[Skydog]

Great to see Grayson play with confidence. His best offensive game since Mich. State. He was looking for his shot from the start and when he does that he tends to make his shots as well. OE at another worldly 154.

Trent was unconscious from 3, going 5 for 9, so 56%. His overall OE also an other worldly 156.

Carter was excellent with 13 pts, 13 rebounds and 4 assists. Too many turnovers (4) but great on the boards. As a team we grabbed 89% of the available defensive rebounds!

I was encouraged by Duval's play tonight. He didn't score much but until the last 5 minutes or so he mostly took care of the baseketball and didn't force plays. Seems like the benching got his attention and he's responding well by trying to clean up his game. He still doesn't know how to open up an offense and so we look a bit stagnant when he brings the ball up the court but we can live with that as long as he's playing within himself and not turning the ball over like crazy. Hopefully he's learning that sometimes less is actually more.

And while I thought this was the most complete game we've played in a while I'm still unconvinced about our zone D. Yes we held VT to 52, but they helped us. I thought their players were finding all kinds of open space and they got off lots of open shots and - in the first half - a lot of layups. They just kept missing. They looked tired and seemed to give up in the 2nd half. That win over VA seems to have taken a lot out of them. To be fair our defense improved in the 2nd half and other than the open layups our rim protection was good when we had someone in position to challenge the driver.

In fact I don't think we lose any games when we have a confident Grayson and an under control Duval. They rest of the team has too much talent and are good about just going to work and doing their jobs.

[subzero02]

The offending plays: Duval was playing with mostly bench players in the last two minutes with the team up 25. He missed a step back 3 with the shot clock running down, made a 3 to get the lead back up to 26 after a VA Tech basket, then had a turnover on a wild full court hit ahead pass to Robinson. He was then subbed out with 51 seconds left.

Before these garbage time plays which apparently cast his "big picture game management" in doubt, Trevon played a mostly controlled game, kept the ball moving, was active in Duke's zone, and kept his worst impulses (heads down dribbling, off kilter passes, ill advised gambles on defense) largely contained. I don't consider a couple of mistakes in garbage time to be indicative of how well he'll manage our chances in close games.

K played him 33 minutes after playing him 25 or less minutes in three of the last four games. I think he was fine with Duval's game management even though I'm sure there will be things he will continue to harp on to make sure his game evolves. I like the way Trevon is developing just fine personally.

His big picture game management has been in question for quite some time. When you get called out by the coaching staff for turnovers in the press after coming off the bench for the first time all season, your play is obviously under an extreme microscope. Carter indirectly criticized him too. Granted, the plays I brought up weren't in a tight game but I doubt that they will go unscrutinized by the coaching staff because they occurred in "garbage time".

[uh_no]

You heard wrong. Not a lot of empty seats and student seats were full

not sure I agree with that assessment.

midweek early games are always more lightly attended, and given it was against VT, who despite being pretty good, is not really someone that fans get "up" for, the attendance was never going to be stupendous.

upstairs filled up around game time, but was still far from full. 95% maybe? Enough that people in my section moved around to give themselves some more room in several instances.

Student attendance was not good. Around game time, only about 50% of the student allotment was filled. This was obvious since the space in between the "GA" sections of section 17 were only filled in about the first 5 or so of 10 rows. Further, the corners of S17 were barren. A sure sign that attendance was awful is that they move the dancing devils to the band side of S17 to take up space, instead of their normal spot for full games, between the band and students in section 18. Given they are doing cheering and such during the game, they fill up a lot of space that would likely be filled by 3-4x more students than dancers.


Anyway, the game was not anywhere near full either upstairs or down, and the OP heard right. It was lightly attended.

[brlftz]

I asked this in the in-game thread: we went to a different defense around 9 minutes or so to go in the second half - what was it? It looked a little like a 1-3-1, although the way VT was spread out we ended up with 3 guys outside the 3-point line on it. Either way, it was effective - it closed down a lot of the gaps VT had been finding.

I’d also like some help figuring this one out. It looked like a dramatic improvement

[gofurman]

Great to see Grayson play with confidence. His best offensive game since Mich. State. He was looking for his shot from the start and when he does that he tends to make his shots as well. OE at another worldly 154.

Trent was unconscious from 3, going 5 for 9, so 56%. His overall OE also an other worldly 156.

Carter was excellent with 13 pts, 13 rebounds and 4 assists. Too many turnovers (4) but great on the boards. As a team we grabbed 89% of the available defensive rebounds!

I was encouraged by Duval's play tonight. He didn't score much but until the last 5 minutes or so he mostly took care of the baseketball and didn't force plays. Seems like the benching got his attention and he's responding well by trying to clean up his game. He still doesn't know how to open up an offense and so we look a bit stagnant when he brings the ball up the court but we can live with that as long as he's playing within himself and not turning the ball over like crazy. Hopefully he's learning that sometimes less is actually more.

And while I thought this was the most complete game we've played in a while I'm still unconvinced about our zone D. Yes we held VT to 52, but they helped us. I thought their players were finding all kinds of open space and they got off lots of open shots and - in the first half - a lot of layups. They just kept missing. They looked tired and seemed to give up in the 2nd half. That win over VA seems to have taken a lot out of them. To be fair our defense improved in the 2nd half and other than the open layups our rim protection was good when we had someone in position to challenge the driver.

In fact I don't think we lose any games when we have a confident Grayson and an under control Duval. They rest of the team has too much talent and are good about just going to work and doing their jobs.

Agree. Again Duke is something like 17-1 when Allen has 10+ pts. 4-4 when he scores 9 or less (something like that)- hunt your shot Grayson!!!

[dukelifer]

Very workmanlike. Team was patient- hitting open shots and the defensive rebounding was excellent. Trent is Tech was not energized and once behind double digits -they never challenged. Allen and Trent were great from deep and Carter was solid down low. Still not loving Duval's game- but he had his moments. Javin was much better tonight- active defensively and had some nice O around the basket. A very nice win. The game at Tech will not be quite as easy but hopefully Bagley will be back. The next game is big test. Clemson is solid and tough at home. Duke will need another solid performance to get a win.

[DukeFanSince1990]

Whoa whoa whoa there

Yeah wouldn't we have to like "score more points" without him before we "better offensively" without him?

[Furniture]

Well Jay Will was in the house tonight, and Jay Will has been all over Duke on ESPN to realize that they simply are a zone team, that they are not a man to man team. I agree with Jay. I'm fired up that K has reached the same conclusion.

I guess it’s semantics but K said “we will play a lot more zone and that will be our primary defense complimented by MOM”.

[devildeac]

Bless y’all.

I'll send you my investment account #.

;)

[duketaylor]

'Nova loses, UK's about to, FSU beats Klemson and we win convincingly. Lots to like about this evening (except that I just got home from work and missed all of our game, rats!!). Good game about to start with Nevada at Boise St. Each team with only 5 losses. I'll watch that and the Olympics for the next two hours as I finish reading this thread. HVD!!!!! to everybody.:D

[YmoBeThere]

You were listening to Foreigner while watching the Duke game on Valentine’s Day?

At least it "Feels like the first time"?

[devildeac]

I asked this in the in-game thread: we went to a different defense around 9 minutes or so to go in the second half - what was it? It looked a little like a 1-3-1, although the way VT was spread out we ended up with 3 guys outside the 3-point line on it. Either way, it was effective - it closed down a lot of the gaps VT had been finding.

Mrs. dd and I were in Section 13 (weezie seats-thanks!!) and I couldn't tell if it was a 1-3-1, 2-1-2 or a 3-2 zone. It changed on the next possession. It looked liked we were trying to take away the pass to the "middle" of the zone and the 15' jumper and/or pass to a cutter on the baseline.

[KandG]

His big picture game management has been in question for quite some time.

Granted, the plays I brought up weren't in a tight game but I doubt that they will go unscrutinized by the coaching staff because they occurred in "garbage time".

All plays will be scrutinized, as they should be by any good coaching staff. But the tone of your original post was hysterical in magnifying the endgame mistakes and not accounting for any of the improved restraint in his game management when the game was competitive. I certainly hope the coaching staff doesn't look strictly at what Duval did at the end of the game and think "this guy isn't going to cut it at the end of close games, we're screwed".

It's your prerogative, of course, to be skeptical of Trevon's maturity or his ability to develop adequately so that this Duke team can evolve to its full potential. But given how polarizing Duval has been as a player and how extreme the discussion of his game has been on this forum, the context you applied in your most recent reply would be more useful than the tone of your original post.

[devildeac]

You were listening to Foreigner while watching the Duke game on Valentine’s Day?

No, it was the Beatles. Or was it the Rolling Stones? Or Led Zeppelin? Or The Who? Ahh, never mind. That thread is closed. :rolleyes:

[jv001]

Trevon had these numbers in tonight's game: 33 minutes, 10 points on 3-10 FGs, 2-6 on 3s, 3 rebounds, 1 steal, 3 assists and 4 turnovers. Not bad, not great, somewhere in between. Was it an improvement over the GT game? I say it was because he played better defense. Well he did in my eye test. He seemed more into the game and not standing around as much. He was active in the zone. I'm not expecting a huge improvement so quickly, I do expect Trevon to improve a little each game and be ready by ACCT or NCAAT. GoDuke!

[devildeac]

Come on man, you’re cold as ice.

But he's willing to sacrifice...

[devildeac]

Jay Williams was in the group. He was front row in student section.

And j bilas got a lukewarm reception from the crowd...

[jv001]

No, it was the Beatles. Or was it the Rolling Stones? Or Led Zeppelin? Or The Who? Ahh, never mind. That thread is closed. :rolleyes:

You left out ZZ Top and Boston. GoDuke!

[devildeac]

I had another reply typed out and was ready to hit “post” when I realized I was quoting Foghat.

Well, we were there so I guess you could call me a Fool for the City...

[jv001]

And j bilas got a lukewarm reception from the crowd...

Ah, they know JB is a turncoat cheat fan. :cool: GoDuke!

[devildeac]

That and it keeps Carter on the floor longer. He doesn't get as winded, but there was a stretch late in the 2nd half where he seemed to really be struggling getting up and down the court.


True. Mrs dd and I attended (thanks, weezie!) and he looked gassed with several minutes to go, but, still had a really good game overall.

[Fish80]

Good win. At home. In conference. A Win. Yay!

[gofurman]

'Nova loses, UK's about to, FSU beats Klemson and we win convincingly. Lots to like about this evening (except that I just got home from work and missed all of our game, rats!!). Good game about to start with Nevada at Boise St. Each team with only 5 losses. I'll watch that and the Olympics for the next two hours as I finish reading this thread. HVD!!!!! to everybody.:D

Can't rejoice in ,Clemson too much as they had Shelton M hurt ... Hope he is out and we win but hope he is ok - he was helped off court. (Plus I pull for Clemson too)

[devildeac]

bout time k started listening to dbr.

next goal: Jack white forty minutes a game.


I do NOT want what he's sipping tonight as much as I like Jack Black, err, White. ;)

[devildeac]

you folks are obsessed with IPA. So no, you ain't right on beer. :D

devildeac - you have the right to flame me. But I stand by my European beer choices

LOL. It's been quite a while since someone got the flaming turd from me. German wheat beers, bocks and pilsners? Check. Belgian dubbels and tripels? Check. English ESBs and porters? Check. Irish stouts? Check.

;)

[devildeac]

You left out ZZ Top and Boston. GoDuke!

They sound like 3 seeds to me.

;)

[duketaylor]

on the highlight reel. She pronounced it (if I can do this correctly from a phonetics point) jeh-vahn de-lawyer. Sheesh, real professional there.:cool:

[Grayson Redick]

I like how the zone slowly switched to a 1-2-2 in the 2nd half. Almost like a (very) non aggressive amoeba zone from the Tark. Zone defenses mixed up can bring many challenges to offenses and if nothing else, waste TOs.

[subzero02]

All plays will be scrutinized, as they should be by any good coaching staff. But the tone of your original post was hysterical in magnifying the endgame mistakes and not accounting for any of the improved restraint in his game management when the game was competitive. I certainly hope the coaching staff doesn't look strictly at what Duval did at the end of the game and think "this guy isn't going to cut it at the end of close games, we're screwed".

It's your prerogative, of course, to be skeptical of Trevon's maturity or his ability to develop adequately so that this Duke team can evolve to its full potential. But given how polarizing Duval has been as a player and how extreme the discussion of his game has been on this forum, the context you applied in your most recent reply would be more useful than the tone of your original post.

Useful to whom? Bad habits are bad habits and those end of game plays were reminiscent of bad plays Duval has made throughout the year... especially the unforced turnover on the fast break. He played well overall in the portion of the game that I saw but the plays I criticized are the plays that he needs to eliminate from his game play generally speaking in order to become a better game manager and PG.

[mpj96]

I remember when folks here were criticizing Jason Williams for being too aggressive and turning the ball over. Duval will be great. He is great for a freshman. He is learning point, working hard, plainly listening carefully to K and he has buckets of talent. He will learn when to go for the throat and when to ease back.

In the meantime, Allen ran the show like John Scheyer tonight. Nothing flashy, but steady and effective. The inside out game was really working tonight once Javin and Wendell got coordinated in the 2nd half. More of that please!

[moonpie23]

IAllen ran the show like John Scheyer tonight. !

yeahhhhhhhhhh....THAT guy....what do they call him? "Mister Basketball"???

yeah, that guy....

[elvis14]

Really fun game to watch. Second game in a row where Grayson was in control for much of the game. Great to see Grayson play with such comfort and confidence. Hope that continues. No significant negatives tonight. K keep us guessing as far as playing time and rotations go. Having MB miss a couple of games could be good for everyone (even Bagley if he sees how effective a pass out to the perimeter can be).


I don't think he's bad at reading opposing offenses. I think he's bad at pick and roll defense and on-ball perimeter defense. But I don't think he's a bad defender. He blocks shots, gets rebounds and reads passing lanes decently.


I think Duke is better WITH Bagley. He's a phenomenal offensive player.

And yeah, the sample size on games without Bags is small, but the games with Bags playing D is not. And he's not a good defender.


FDD is right about Bagley, his defense is not good. When he's defending a PF with the ball he does just fine but much what goes into playing good defense is what happens when you aren't defending the ball. Watch his last game, so many times other guys had to go cover for him and the defense broke down. He's a fantastic player, but defense and passing are areas for improvement for him. That's OK, he's a freshman and all players have areas for improvement.

[Troublemaker]

I couldn't watch the game due to Ash Wednesday + Valentine's Day. BUT, if it's true that Coach K is going to commit to zone defense first, it's probably a good investment to search out any lagging Duke futures to win the NCAAT. I see 8 to 1 at Vegas Insider (http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/futures/) as of the time of this post, and I've heard you could actually get our boys at 10 to 1 or better at certain offshores.

Once you've searched and found these lagging Duke futures, the next step is to do nothing, obviously. Go on Covers and put fake money on them at the most. Don't gamble. Geez.

[pfrduke]

Another important result from this game - we got our land back (https://imgur.com/DN0sk55)! (See here (https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/7xo5gc/college_basketball_imperialism_map_february_14/)for details)

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8075&stc=1

[HereBeforeCoachK]

And j bilas got a lukewarm reception from the crowd...

Is there a Bilas thread around here somewhere?

[dukelifer]

I remember when folks here were criticizing Jason Williams for being too aggressive and turning the ball over. Duval will be great. He is great for a freshman. He is learning point, working hard, plainly listening carefully to K and he has buckets of talent. He will learn when to go for the throat and when to ease back.

In the meantime, Allen ran the show like John Scheyer tonight. Nothing flashy, but steady and effective. The inside out game was really working tonight once Javin and Wendell got coordinated in the 2nd half. More of that please!

The good thing about Freshman is that they become sophomores. Unfortunately some don’t. The only two Duke point guards that went pro after their Freshman year are his comps. One was other-worldly in the few games he played and the other was MVP of the FF. He also has Tre Young blowing up at OK. Duval has talent but he is very raw and the game is still too fast for him- which affects his decision making. I agree that next year he could be excellent but he will not be here.

[Billy Dat]

Is there a Bilas thread around here somewhere?

Wherever it is, I am sure Wendell Carter went up and grabbed it with both hands.

[Matches]

The good thing about Freshman is that they become sophomores. Unfortunately some don’t. The only two Duke point guards that went pro after their Freshman year are his comps. One was other-worldly in the few games he played and the other was MVP of the FF. He also has Tre Young blowing up at OK. Duval has talent but he is very raw and the game is still too fast for him- which affects his decision making. I agree that next year he could be excellent but he will not be here.

Duval isn't as good at this age as Kyrie or Tyus were. He's not going to be a star PG at the college level because he won't be around long enough. But he's still a good college player and an asset to the team. I thought he played well last night. He's mistake-prone at times, occasionally a little reckless, but he does a lot of things well. I was especially impressed with his ability to finish at the basket last night while absorbing contact from a bigger defender. Overall i thought last night was one of the most complete performances I've seen from this team, and hopefully it will be a nice building block going forward.

[NYBri]

Overall i thought last night was one of the most complete performances I've seen from this team, and hopefully it will be a nice building block going forward.

I like the changes K is making. Zone? I’m in. :cool:

[camion]

I like the changes K is making. Zone? I’m in. :cool:

Grayson was in the zone last night so was Trent. :)



But seriously folks, I seem to recall someone saying that, "During a season you have about five games where everything works, five games where nothing works and the rest somewhere in between"*. Last night was one of those games where things just worked. I'm really happy about it, but I don't expect it to be the new normal. I'm just hoping we can aim for that kind of performance and approach it on a semi-regular basis now that we know we have it in us
.
*If no one claims authorship I'll gladly volunteer.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Grayson was in the zone last night so was Trent. :)



But seriously folks, I seem to recall someone saying that, "During a season you have about five games where everything works, five games where nothing works and the rest somewhere in between"*. Last night was one of those games where things just worked. I'm really happy about it, but I don't expect it to be the new normal. I'm just hoping we can aim for that kind of performance and approach it on a semi-regular basis now that we know we have it in us
.
*If no one claims authorship I'll gladly volunteer.

That's a great quote. I am happy to claim it if no one else steps forward to prove otherwise.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I like the changes K is making. Zone? I’m in. :cool:

I was there about 5 minutes into the Michigan State game....

[dyedwab]

But seriously folks, I seem to recall someone saying that, "During a season you have about five games where everything works, five games where nothing works and the rest somewhere in between"*. Last night was one of those games where things just worked. I'm really happy about it, but I don't expect it to be the new normal. I'm just hoping we can aim for that kind of performance and approach it on a semi-regular basis now that we know we have it in us.

I agree with this, but there were still encouraging signs (other than Grayson's shooting) that were notable going forward

1) Buzz Williams noted this in his post game presser, but we were consistently beating VaTech to 50/50 balls. That hasn't been happening recently.

2) Gary Trent Jr's shooting - I don't want this to get lost in everything else that's going on. He shot 5/9 on threes and is shooting 46% for the year. That...astounding. Especially since only he and Grayson are consistent outside shooters on this team

3) We didn't experience that end of first half/early second half lull that has plagued us for the last few games

This was a satisfying win and hopefully something to build on.

[Billy Dat]

1. Duke is better offensively with Bagley. No questions asked.
2. Duke is better defensively without Bagley. No questions asked.
3. Grayson is better without Bagley. No questions asked.

FDD, I enjoyed this feisty and provocative immediate post-game hot take. In the very excellent and helpful "Tracking Duke's Defense" thread (thanks, Kedsy), I continue to marvel at how our bad defense is bad in different ways every game. I am starting to side with the idea that when guys aren't individually on-track offensively it hurts their defense, something K has always blamed on youth/inexperience. All that is to say that despite our gaudy offensive numbers this year, we are playing a different style, one that doesn't align with the strengths of our senior star. Suddenly, with Bagley out, we look more like a traditional Duke 3 point shooting squad and everything begins to click. After a recent game, someone made the observation that with our dominant bigs, they are less likely to kick-out offensive boards for in-rhythm 3s. Well, last night that kind of action was happening all over the place. I love Marvin and firmly believe we are better with him in the game, I just think there is something to the idea that Duke suddenly playing an offense that is more traditionally Duke like had some impact in our defense, and that guys not having good offensive games has hurt our defense....that being said....


As for VT, I know those were the same physical players that beat Virginia over the weekend but man it's hard to believe it. They just looked totally out of sync and couldn't get anything going. While Cameron is a tougher place to play than JPJ arena, I doubt that completely accounted for the difference.

VT appeared rattled and didn't shoot well, nor did they get many second opportunities.

And while I thought this was the most complete game we've played in a while I'm still unconvinced about our zone D. Yes we held VT to 52, but they helped us. I thought their players were finding all kinds of open space and they got off lots of open shots and - in the first half - a lot of layups. They just kept missing. They looked tired and seemed to give up in the 2nd half. That win over VA seems to have taken a lot out of them. To be fair our defense improved in the 2nd half and other than the open layups our rim protection was good when we had someone in position to challenge the driver.

I thought VT was god awful. Some of it was Cameron, some of it was Duke, but aside from our hot shooting, I didn't think we were particularly good early. I thought they got discouraged by missing a lot of easy shots and then they just kind of started to play really badly. I think that revved us up and the worm turned but, man, that was NOT the VT team I've been "seeing on tape". They definitely had a major hangover.


So great effort defensively by our guys, especially Javin but really everyone brought it and maintained it for the whole game which is what we've been asking for.

I thought Javin made a huge difference last night, especially in areas that the board has been clamoring for...that Duke hustle, loose ball, dive on the floor, leave it on the court spirit that is so equated with "caring".

[CDu]

Still watching the game again after having to only catch glimpses here and there last night due to family stuff. But man, what a fun win!

I thought the second half defense was really interesting. We were still playing a 2-3 zone, but with a few wrinkles. The first is a wrinkle we've been employing for a while, and that's extending the forwards up to the 3pt line on the wing unless Va Tech sent a guy to the corner. That sometimes gave the appearance of a 2-2-1 or sometimes even a 4-1 look.

The second wrinkle I saw was that we started putting ball pressure from one of the two guards just across half-court, while the other dropped down to the free throw line and sealed off the free throw line entry pass. With the forwards pushed up, this wound up looking like a 1-3-1 at times. And then when the ball got to the low blocks, we had the weakside guard crash heavily down into the lane to trap any passing action to the middle. It was a really active and aggressive 2-3 zone. Just a really nice display of how (like with man-to-man) you can run a base defense in different ways to confuse the opponent. I really liked it, and I think it will be critical to have wrinkles like that in the defense moving forward to keep opposing teams from being able to just key in on one strategy to beat our zone.

Aside from that, I was very pleased to see how engaged Duval was on both ends of the floor. He was hustling for loose balls throughout and really talking on defense. Still a work in progress, but I was pleased with what I saw from him. Next achievement to unlock: better ball security/finishing at the rim. He seems to get a little sloppy in finishing out his drives. If he tightens that up, man oh man.

It was also great to see the team involve DeLaurier as a baseline lurker on offense. It is his perfect role, and with the ball spending more time in the hands of the guards/wings, it really opened up opportunities for him. It was one of his most effective performances. He seemed under control rather than the wild puppy that he sometimes appears to be out there. Really strong game.

And of course it was great to see Allen have a huge game. Hopefully this gets his confidence up for the home stretch. If he's a weapon offensively again, we get REALLY hard to defend.

Of course I loved the performances by Carter and Trent. Trent is just on fire from 3. So dialed in, and has such great shot selection that you just expect everything to fall. And Carter is just a manchild down low.

Really fun win. I didn't expect things to go that well, but our zone really flummoxed Va Tech for about a 12-15 minute stretch of the second half, and we just buried them. Hopefully this helps build confidence for the big game this weekend. A win in Littlejohn will really help our cause down the stretch.

[FerryFor50]

on the highlight reel. She pronounced it (if I can do this correctly from a phonetics point) jeh-vahn de-lawyer. Sheesh, real professional there.:cool:

Our local Duke forum does the same, on occasion. :)

[devildeac]

Is there a Bilas thread around here somewhere?

Not that I recall but someone with better search skills than me might be able to find one:o. Then again, he is sometimes mentioned in other threads, especially those discussing hypocritical, spineless college athletic "governing" entities and "universities" prone to decades of academic fraud. :rolleyes:

[mpj96]

I like Duval off the ball in much the same way I liked Cook off the ball with Tyus. It gives us a look most teams can't match with an aggressive, lightening quick ball handler off the ball.

Duval will not be as good as a freshman as he would be as a sophomore because he still has so much potential. That same potential means he probably won't ever be a sophomore but I am really enjoying watching his journey. His demeanor and effort is really impressive. Hiccups are to be expected along the way but the trajectory is extremely solid as long as he keeps working.

I also really like what Javin did for us last night. Once he got into the pace of the game he was a difference maker for us. Between Javin and Carter we have an inside presence that rebounds like crazy and is a dangerous scoring threat in the post without being so ball dominant that the shooters get passive.

We lost Jah for a few games in '15 and it made the team better to figure out how to win without him. I can't wait for Bagley to come back - he is an electrifying player - but long term our team is learning some things without him that I hope they remember when he comes back.

[Billy Dat]

The second wrinkle I saw was that we started putting ball pressure from one of the two guards just across half-court, while the other dropped down to the free throw line and sealed off the free throw line entry pass. With the forwards pushed up, this wound up looking like a 1-3-1 at times. And then when the ball got to the low blocks, we had the weakside guard crash heavily down into the lane to trap any passing action to the middle. It was a really active and aggressive 2-3 zone. Just a really nice display of how (like with man-to-man) you can run a base defense in different ways to confuse the opponent. I really liked it, and I think it will be critical to have wrinkles like that in the defense moving forward to keep opposing teams from being able to just key in on one strategy to beat our zone.

Buzz noticed, too. He's a very interesting basketball mind.

On how he thought his team attacked the zone, particularly from the high post:
“We missed more layups than we have maybe in any half thus far. Just a lot. How you, in a coaching clinic, would
explain how to attack a zone, I thought we did pretty well. Only thing I would say maybe in defense of missing so many
layups is on the catch at the high post, normally you anticipate the middle of the zone to come to the ball. And he
didn’t. I don’t think that we necessarily squared up with the intent that that’s how they would play it. And so that gap,
obviously we’re trying to shrink that gap. But as we’re shrinking that gap we’re getting closer to the rim. We didn’t
finish. In the second half, obviously the top guard not guarding the ball was almost shadowing the nail. And whichever
side that was happening, that bottom forward was coming up. And so what we wanted to do a little more that I didn’t
think that we did was whichever side that bottom forward was coming up, immediately get it to that side and then get it
to the short corner. So the big would then have to go out. And I didn’t think that we attacked that maybe as well as we
should have. Uncharacteristically, and a credit to them, missed an inordinate amount of layups.”

[freshmanjs]

We lost Jah for a few games in '15 and it made the team better to figure out how to win without him. I can't wait for Bagley to come back - he is an electrifying player - but long term our team is learning some things without him that I hope they remember when he comes back.

Jah missed one game, a blowout home win vs. Clemson.

[AtlDuke72]

Well Jay Will was in the house tonight, and Jay Will has been all over Duke on ESPN to realize that they simply are a zone team, that they are not a man to man team. I agree with Jay. I'm fired up that K has reached the same conclusion.

I agree that they need to play zone, but they need to play it better than they are doing it now. Va. Tech beat Virginia, but the second half of that game was painful to watch. They played just as poorly offensively against the Devils. The Va. Tech zone was much better than Duke's. Everybody on their team moves and adjusts with every pass, not so with the Devils where about two guys move and the others watch. I know that it is a work in progress so maybe it will get there. The offense is just terrific and will be really hard to stop when Bagley returns. Allen shooting well makes this a much different team!

[tux]

I agree with the other posters who think Va Tech's defense looked much better than Duke's defense. I thought they actually moved the ball really well against our defense, and they generated better shots than we did. Duke (and especially Grayson) was able to hit a good percentage of tough, contested shots. And Va Tech missed some open shots and layups.

Duke was great on the defensive boards and shot the ball really well.

BTW: It's great to see Carter getting some attention. He's really a phenomenal talent and has a ton of potential. That outside shot is not a fluke. And he was great relocating the ball to the perimeter when they doubled him in the post.

[Furniture]

Grayson was in the zone last night so was Trent. :).

A couple of weeks ago someone doubted that Trent would be going to the NBA next year.
NEWS FLASH! He’s gone!!

[uh_no]

Aside from that, I was very pleased to see how engaged Duval was on both ends of the floor. He was hustling for loose balls throughout and really talking on defense. Still a work in progress, but I was pleased with what I saw from him. Next achievement to unlock: better ball security/finishing at the rim. He seems to get a little sloppy in finishing out his drives. If he tightens that up, man oh man.
Noted that too. People harp a lot on how "oh we only gave up so many rebounds because they were all long balls and you can't control that." Well you can....and the reason we lost so many was because of guards not thinking they have to rebound. Given we don't get back on defense either, there's no reason to ever be out boarded. Trevon was far more active on the glass last night.

I hope that getting benched the other day will be enough to make that level of effort more permanent. All year, he's responded better after coming off the bench. The post st. johns press conference in my mind was a huge shot over the bow. If a team is not running the plays K calls, the PG has to shoulder a huge amount of that responsibility. The fact that he then played his lowest minute total vs NC, and was benched vs GT....hopefully he's gotten the message now.

He provides value to this team, even if that value is flexibility. He needs to be doing the things to keep himself on the floor.



I like Duval off the ball in much the same way I liked Cook off the ball with Tyus.

I'm not sure you would have liked cook off the ball so much if he was shooting 27% from 3 (vs 40%)....cook doesn't provide enough (or really much of any) value as a shooter to be playing off the ball for significant stretches of time. That pairing must go in the other direction, but involves duval knowing what to do after penetration, which he doesn't...often.

On the contrary, the allen drive and pop to trent was killer last night. that level of penetration is something we've been lacking all year. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more offensive sets with bagley lining up as a wing to allow some movement like we haven't had due to the bigs "clogging" the lane. Make teams stop everything...not just one super star. You could see this last night. Wendell didn't have success early as VT would just collapse on him. It wasn't until we started killing them on the drive and kick that they softened up, and the inside game went off the charts.

Anyway,

1) thoughts that we're better with bagley off the floor are silly
2) we should be seeking to adapt the things we did well tonight to a lineup which includes bagley, and then continue to do those things, while also doing the things that a lineup of two lottery pick big men allows.

[Lar77]

Mrs. dd and I were in Section 13 (weezie seats-thanks!!) and I couldn't tell if it was a 1-3-1, 2-1-2 or a 3-2 zone. It changed on the next possession. It looked liked we were trying to take away the pass to the "middle" of the zone and the 15' jumper and/or pass to a cutter on the baseline.

I would call it a 1 1/2 - 1/2 - 3 zone. Noticed Grayson and Tre talking about it and positioning. Basically, a 2-3 zone with one guy (usually Grayson) cheating up on the ball handler and the other cheating back about 1-2 steps. I don't recall ever seeing a set up like that, and couldn't decide if it was 1-3-1 or 2-3. It seemed to be in response to VT feeding into the high post, while not giving the perimeter too much room. Regardless, it was a good adjustment. We were also much more active in following ball movement.

On offense, we passed out of the post to allow an open 3, which helped Grayson and Gary, or they and Trent could drive in and shoot or feed the post man. It took a while to get that going but it worked well.

It looked like K subbed Javin for Marques because of the matchup. The injury still seems to be bothering Marques.

Any insight on why no AOC until the end?

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I agree that they need to play zone, but they need to play it better than they are doing it now. .... I know that it is a work in progress so maybe it will get there. The offense is just terrific and will be really hard to stop when Bagley returns. Allen shooting well makes this a much different team!

All of these things work together. As Wendell Carter said, playing zone keeps them fresher for rebounding and offense. And it does. Now that they've decided it's zone, it will get most of the work in practice, and they will get better. They will stop trying to force the square peg into the round hole.

I remember amazing Duke man to man defensive teams in 88 and 89 that propelled rather mediocre offensive teams to the Final Four. That's who they were back then. That's not who they are now. They don't have that on ball ability on defense, but they are capable of being the best offensive team in the country, especially with the freshness Carter mentioned, which is legitimate.

All this team has to be in the zone is pretty good, and be who they are on offense. No guarantees, but they can win a title by doing that.

[CDu]

I would call it a 1 1/2 - 1/2 - 3 zone. Noticed Grayson and Tre talking about it and positioning. Basically, a 2-3 zone with one guy (usually Grayson) cheating up on the ball handler and the other cheating back about 1-2 steps. I don't recall ever seeing a set up like that, and couldn't decide if it was 1-3-1 or 2-3. It seemed to be in response to VT feeding into the high post, while not giving the perimeter too much room. Regardless, it was a good adjustment. We were also much more active in following ball movement.

It was still a 2-3, as the guards had the same set of responsibilities (it just depended which side of the court the ball was on as to what their specific responsibility was). This game was a really nice display of some of the wrinkles you can sprinkle into a zone defense to make it more malleable.


Any insight on why no AOC until the end?

Slow-paced game, plus Allen and Duval playing really well meant less need for guard subs. And when we did sub, we subbed in a back-line guy and went big with Trent up top.

Basically, in a 2-3 zone, you want more length from your back line guys. So that means getting guys like DeLaurier in there more. And Trent can bump up to the front of the 2-3 if needed. So unless we need to sit both a guard and Trent in the game, there isn't a huge need for O'Connell on the floor.

[Highlander]

I'm a big fan of cardio for the overall workout. But I will say that it doesn't have to be running. My parents (who are in their early 70's) decided to get in the habit of walking a mile or two 3-4 times a week. They have always eaten pretty healthy, but went to zero calorie soda and diluted OJ (H2Orange mom calls it) as a snack. They both lost a noticeable amount of weight and are in much better shape, and I daresay they barely broke a sweat on their walks.

So you don't have to do an insanity style cardio workout to get in shape; just get out and be active with what works for your and keep at it.

[jimsumner]

I'm a big fan of cardio for the overall workout. But I will say that it doesn't have to be running. My parents (who are in their early 70's) decided to get in the habit of walking a mile or two 3-4 times a week. They have always eaten pretty healthy, but went to zero calorie soda and diluted OJ (H2Orange mom calls it) as a snack. They both lost a noticeable amount of weight and are in much better shape, and I daresay they barely broke a sweat on their walks.

So you don't have to do an insanity style cardio workout to get in shape; just get out and be active with what works for your and keep at it.

Good advice but wrong thread methinks.

Unless we're talking about playing zone. :)

[flyingdutchdevil]

Still watching the game again after having to only catch glimpses here and there last night due to family stuff. But man, what a fun win!

I thought the second half defense was really interesting. We were still playing a 2-3 zone, but with a few wrinkles. The first is a wrinkle we've been employing for a while, and that's extending the forwards up to the 3pt line on the wing unless Va Tech sent a guy to the corner. That sometimes gave the appearance of a 2-2-1 or sometimes even a 4-1 look.

The second wrinkle I saw was that we started putting ball pressure from one of the two guards just across half-court, while the other dropped down to the free throw line and sealed off the free throw line entry pass. With the forwards pushed up, this wound up looking like a 1-3-1 at times. And then when the ball got to the low blocks, we had the weakside guard crash heavily down into the lane to trap any passing action to the middle. It was a really active and aggressive 2-3 zone. Just a really nice display of how (like with man-to-man) you can run a base defense in different ways to confuse the opponent. I really liked it, and I think it will be critical to have wrinkles like that in the defense moving forward to keep opposing teams from being able to just key in on one strategy to beat our zone.

Aside from that, I was very pleased to see how engaged Duval was on both ends of the floor. He was hustling for loose balls throughout and really talking on defense. Still a work in progress, but I was pleased with what I saw from him. Next achievement to unlock: better ball security/finishing at the rim. He seems to get a little sloppy in finishing out his drives. If he tightens that up, man oh man.

It was also great to see the team involve DeLaurier as a baseline lurker on offense. It is his perfect role, and with the ball spending more time in the hands of the guards/wings, it really opened up opportunities for him. It was one of his most effective performances. He seemed under control rather than the wild puppy that he sometimes appears to be out there. Really strong game.

And of course it was great to see Allen have a huge game. Hopefully this gets his confidence up for the home stretch. If he's a weapon offensively again, we get REALLY hard to defend.

Of course I loved the performances by Carter and Trent. Trent is just on fire from 3. So dialed in, and has such great shot selection that you just expect everything to fall. And Carter is just a manchild down low.

Really fun win. I didn't expect things to go that well, but our zone really flummoxed Va Tech for about a 12-15 minute stretch of the second half, and we just buried them. Hopefully this helps build confidence for the big game this weekend. A win in Littlejohn will really help our cause down the stretch.

Nice summary. I too thought Duval had a wonderful game. His D last night was the best I've seen all season. With him, I truly believe being engaged on the defensive end is key to our success. Duval's finishes at the rim are interesting, because that's one of his strong suits coming out of high school. I really want Duval to think about scoring first, passing second when he's in the paint. That way, he'll really focus on his finishes. With his length (6'9" wingspan) and athleticism, he should be able to challenge big men who want to block his shot. He needs to get fouled more often than not given the tools he has.

[CDu]

I'm a big fan of cardio for the overall workout. But I will say that it doesn't have to be running. My parents (who are in their early 70's) decided to get in the habit of walking a mile or two 3-4 times a week. They have always eaten pretty healthy, but went to zero calorie soda and diluted OJ (H2Orange mom calls it) as a snack. They both lost a noticeable amount of weight and are in much better shape, and I daresay they barely broke a sweat on their walks.

So you don't have to do an insanity style cardio workout to get in shape; just get out and be active with what works for your and keep at it.

Hmm... maybe multitasking in different threads? This seems like a great post... for the Fitness Thread. :)

[Kfanarmy]

Hmm... maybe multitasking in different threads? This seems like a great post... for the Fitness Thread. :)

yes and I don't think that was the Valentine's Day workout people were thinking of in any case.

[CDu]

yes and I don't think that was the Valentine's Day workout people were thinking of in any case.

Sadly for me, it's potty training time with my son. So the only Valentine's Day workout I got was cleaning the carpet of child urine.

But now I've derailed the thread. So to bring it back on topic, I'm glad Duke didn't wet the bed last night

[Truth&Justise]

Watch we come out against Clemson in a M2M.

I guess I'm in the minority, but I would love that. I'm not convinced we can rely completely on our zone defense for wins in March. IMO, once teams know we've completely abandoned M2M, they'll be ready to pick apart our zone. So the best course of action would be to keep working on improving both, and keep teams guessing on which we will employ at various points.

[dukelifer]

Duval isn't as good at this age as Kyrie or Tyus were. He's not going to be a star PG at the college level because he won't be around long enough. But he's still a good college player and an asset to the team. I thought he played well last night. He's mistake-prone at times, occasionally a little reckless, but he does a lot of things well. I was especially impressed with his ability to finish at the basket last night while absorbing contact from a bigger defender. Overall i thought last night was one of the most complete performances I've seen from this team, and hopefully it will be a nice building block going forward.

Yes- if I knew he would be here for another year- I would be thrilled with his progress and his potential. He has much work to do and I hope he is given the time to do it because he really needs to work on his shot making. He will not last long in the NBA without that. He has shown he can get to the basket and finish with contact- but that is still not consistent. I much prefer when he drives and dishes. He is a bit stiff on the perimeter and because he is not a confident mid range shooter- he sometimes get into trouble figuring out what to do. All of this is fixable in time and with experience. Sophomore Duval will be very good and Junior even better- but alas, that is unlikely to happen. I expect the coaching staff is trying to help him grow- and understand his current limitations.

[dukelifer]

I guess I'm in the minority, but I would love that. I'm not convinced we can rely completely on our zone defense for wins in March. IMO, once teams know we've completely abandoned M2M, they'll be ready to pick apart our zone. So the best course of action would be to keep working on improving both, and keep teams guessing on which we will employ at various points.

If we zone Va Tech again- I expect they won't miss those shots at home. Need to mix it up or throw in wrinkles as CDu noted.

[devildeac]

I'm a big fan of cardio for the overall workout. But I will say that it doesn't have to be running. My parents (who are in their early 70's) decided to get in the habit of walking a mile or two 3-4 times a week. They have always eaten pretty healthy, but went to zero calorie soda and diluted OJ (H2Orange mom calls it) as a snack. They both lost a noticeable amount of weight and are in much better shape, and I daresay they barely broke a sweat on their walks.

So you don't have to do an insanity style cardio workout to get in shape; just get out and be active with what works for your and keep at it.


Good advice but wrong thread methinks.

Unless we're talking about playing zone. :)

I figured it out. Highlander meant 2 miles, three times a week. Hence, a 2-3 zone.

(I'll show myself out now. :o)

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I guess I'm in the minority, but I would love that. I'm not convinced we can rely completely on our zone defense for wins in March. IMO, once teams know we've completely abandoned M2M, they'll be ready to pick apart our zone. So the best course of action would be to keep working on improving both, and keep teams guessing on which we will employ at various points.

I don't think we can stay in front of the dribbler in M2M with this team. Neither of the bigs can, Grayson can't really - Trent can't really - this team is exposed in M2M....and as Wendell said, they're fresher in the zone for offense. And zone doesn't mean one thing. They play two or three kinds of zone, and they trap some full and trap it half court some and sometimes just drop back into it.

Decent zone plus awesome offense I think is the way this team reaches its potential. (and BTW, that doesn't mean NEVER ever show a man from time to time...)

[Saratoga2]

I agree that they need to play zone, but they need to play it better than they are doing it now. Va. Tech beat Virginia, but the second half of that game was painful to watch. They played just as poorly offensively against the Devils. The Va. Tech zone was much better than Duke's. Everybody on their team moves and adjusts with every pass, not so with the Devils where about two guys move and the others watch. I know that it is a work in progress so maybe it will get there. The offense is just terrific and will be really hard to stop when Bagley returns. Allen shooting well makes this a much different team!

Some of what they played looked like a pack line with 4 players inside 16 feet and one hounding the ball. I can't say that I watched their defense that closely all during the game, but I say them playing UVA like for a part of the game. I wouldn't think a zone with such a short team would work that well.

[DukieInBrasil]

Yeah wouldn't we have to like "score more points" without him before we "better offensively" without him?

I think you misread that, or at least by the time i got to reading the post-game it read: "1. Duke is better offensively with Bagley. No questions asked. "
You, and others, have taken issue with that post, thinking it said "without", but it doesn't. It says "with".

[DukieInBrasil]

I agree with this, but there were still encouraging signs (other than Grayson's shooting) that were notable going forward

1) Buzz Williams noted this in his post game presser, but we were consistently beating VaTech to 50/50 balls. That hasn't been happening recently.

2) Gary Trent Jr's shooting - I don't want this to get lost in everything else that's going on. He shot 5/9 on threes and is shooting 46% for the year. That...astounding. Especially since only he and Grayson are consistent outside shooters on this team

3) We didn't experience that end of first half/early second half lull that has plagued us for the last few games

This was a satisfying win and hopefully something to build on.

Wrt 3pt shooting, Duke's 3pt shooting as a team has shot up to 39+% for the year. That's really good.


yes and I don't think that was the Valentine's Day workout people were thinking of in any case.
Hey-o!


Sadly for me, it's potty training time with my son. So the only Valentine's Day workout I got was cleaning the carpet of child urine.

But now I've derailed the thread. So to bring it back on topic, I'm glad Duke didn't wet the bed last night
Nice hedge-and-recover


I figured it out. Highlander meant 2 miles, three times a week. Hence, a 2-3 zone.

(I'll show myself out now. :o)
You've got a brilliant mind for defense

[Kedsy]

Trevon was far more active on the glass last night.

Maybe. It's worth noting that Trevon only had one defensive rebound last night. Gary had five, Wendell had eight, Grayson had three, and Javin had two (in fewer minutes than the others). Just like it wasn't Trevon's fault when we rebounded poorly on the defensive end, I'm not sure he should get so much credit for our strong defensive rebounding last night.


Duval's finishes at the rim are interesting, because that's one of his strong suits coming out of high school.

He's still shooting 59% at the rim, which is pretty good.

[Acymetric]

Maybe. It's worth noting that Trevon only had one defensive rebound last night. Gary had five, Wendell had eight, Grayson had three, and Javin had two (in fewer minutes than the others). Just like it wasn't Trevon's fault when we rebounded poorly on the defensive end, I'm not sure he should get so much credit for our strong defensive rebounding last night.



He's still shooting 59% at the rim, which is pretty good.

It definitely isn't bad, but if that's the main thing you bring to the table it isn't exactly great either.

[uh_no]

It definitely isn't bad, but if that's the main thing you bring to the table it isn't exactly great either.

especially when we have two other guys who shoot probbaly 65+ at the rim.

trevon is easily our worst option on offense...which isn't the slight it sounds like given the high ability of the other options...but the difference in o-rating is significant and large. As has been beaten to death that you often NEED less efficient options for overall being more efficient due to variability, but on average, trevon will not be the guy we usually want taking the shots, regardless of circumstance.

[CDu]

It definitely isn't bad, but if that's the main thing you bring to the table it isn't exactly great either.

Yep, Duval is the worst finisher at the rim of any of our key regulars, and is comfortably worse than anyone other than Allen (who is 1.5 percentage points better). And as, uh_no said, it's what he does BEST. Which explains why his eFG% and TS% are, quite comfortably, the worst among the top-8 players.

[korshmar]

I'm curious why Jordan Goldwire did not get in the game, even in garbage time, Buckmire played, but he did not.

Is Goldwire injured?

[uh_no]

I'm curious why Jordan Goldwire did not get in the game, even in garbage time, Buckmire played, but he did not.

Is Goldwire injured?

short of any other knowledge, such things almost invariably boil down to one of

1) injury
2) not practicing hard
3) academics
4) transferring

I don't care to speculate, but hope to see him on the court soon! He always seemed comfortable on the floor to me, and I think he would be a really good player given a year or two.

[Truth&Justise]

I'm curious why Jordan Goldwire did not get in the game, even in garbage time, Buckmire played, but he did not.

Is Goldwire injured?

Grayson and Gary were playing great, so coach left them in most of the game. O'Connell's minutes were also down. My guess is that, by the time the game was out of hand and Coach K was ready to make end-of-game substitutions, he figured he'd give it to Buckmire since it's hard to find minutes for the walk-ons. I don't think that's necessarily a snub of Goldwire, just an opportunity for Buckmire.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

short of any other knowledge, such things almost invariably boil down to one of

1) injury
2) not practicing hard
3) academics
4) transferring

I don't care to speculate, but hope to see him on the court soon! He always seemed comfortable on the floor to me, and I think he would be a really good player given a year or two.

You left out sick. And it would be a really unlikely time for 3 or 4. Both of which would keep him out entirely.

[uh_no]

You left out sick. And it would be a really unlikely time for 3 or 4. Both of which would keep him out entirely.

i'd lump sick with injury, and probably should have lumped 2,3 as "program standards" minutes...perhaps the "doghouse hypothesis" (even though K will state he doesn't have a doghouse...though he can call it whatever he wants)

Either way, just to be clear, i'm not subscribing to any theories or speculations...just stating that it's usually one of those things. Also, the timing might not be off. midterms and assignments are due all the time...and as we learned in the fall, K won't tolerate even minor infractions (heck, if missing class = missing a game, i might have missed a whole college career's worth of games just from one class senior year :) ). Transfers also happen all the time.

Sickess seems most likely, I'd think...but I thought he was sick a couple weeks ago already?

or maybe it's nothing!

as I said, just hope to see him on the court again

[mpj96]

Jah missed one game, a blowout home win vs. Clemson.

I was thinking of the UNC game where he went out and thought he missed more than one game after that. Perhaps it was just one game.

[pfrduke]

i'd lump sick with injury, and probably should have lumped 2,3 as "program standards" minutes...perhaps the "doghouse hypothesis" (even though K will state he doesn't have a doghouse...though he can call it whatever he wants)

Either way, just to be clear, i'm not subscribing to any theories or speculations...just stating that it's usually one of those things. Also, the timing might not be off. midterms and assignments are due all the time...and as we learned in the fall, K won't tolerate even minor infractions (heck, if missing class = missing a game, i might have missed a whole college career's worth of games just from one class senior year :) ). Transfers also happen all the time.

Sickess seems most likely, I'd think...but I thought he was sick a couple weeks ago already?

or maybe it's nothing!

as I said, just hope to see him on the court again

There's also the much less controversial spreading around of opportunities. Goldwire played in Atlanta just a few days ago. Maybe Buckmire had a great week (or so) in practice and K wanted to be sure he got a minute, even if it meant Jordan didn't play.

[53n206]

Is it becoming likely that Trevon will stay for at least one more year?

[MChambers]

Is it becoming likely that Trevon will stay for at least one more year?

No. Scouts know what he can do.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Is it becoming likely that Trevon will stay for at least one more year?

Better question - people who were excited to see him benched, will you be excited if he comes back?

Honest question, I can't keep up with the hot takes.

[uh_no]

There's also the much less controversial spreading around of opportunities. Goldwire played in Atlanta just a few days ago. Maybe Buckmire had a great week (or so) in practice and K wanted to be sure he got a minute, even if it meant Jordan didn't play.

that was actually my best guess :-)

[UrinalCake]

Is it becoming likely that Trevon will stay for at least one more year?

I think it's a possibility. I know it wasn't his "plan," but plans change. Grayson's plan was to graduate in three years and then go. For Duval all that matters is where his draft projection falls at the end of the season and I believe right now he is out of the first round or maybe near the end of it. He has plenty of physical tools but there are many other point guards out there who have shown more and would be drafted before him. So we'll see.


Better question - people who were excited to see him benched, will you be excited if he comes back?

The prevailing opinion seems to be that he has no reason to come back because he would come off the bench behind Tre Jones. My personal view is that fans have short memories and seem to forget that a year ago Duval was the point guard of our dreams that we would finally have. Jones will go through his share of freshman struggles as well, regardless of his DNA, and having Duval back for another year would be amazing.

[godins]

I think it's a possibility. I know it wasn't his "plan," but plans change. Grayson's plan was to graduate in three years and then go. For Duval all that matters is where his draft projection falls at the end of the season and I believe right now he is out of the first round or maybe near the end of it. He has plenty of physical tools but there are many other point guards out there who have shown more and would be drafted before him. So we'll see.

The prevailing opinion seems to be that he has no reason to come back because he would come off the bench behind Tre Jones. My personal view is that fans have short memories and seem to forget that a year ago Duval was the point guard of our dreams that we would finally have. Jones will go through his share of freshman struggles as well, regardless of his DNA, and having Duval back for another year would be amazing.

There's still plenty of time for things to change between now and June. But Trevon's draft stock, read via the mock drafts, has been pretty inelastic all season long. Pre-season he was in the late lottery to 20 on most mocks. Then the Twitter comments from the practice in...October?...came out, and his stock dipped. But since then, he's hovered in the low 20s in most mocks (The Athletic, ESPN, NBADraft.net) to nearly out of the first round (28th on Bleacher Report). This despite all of our handwringing over his defense, shooting, turnovers, court awareness, and immaturity. If the NBA scouts asked us, Trevon wouldn't even get drafted! Thank God they don't.

I said this in another thread, but I'd put his chances of returning to Duke at <1%. He has the tools NBA teams like to reach on in the post-lottery doldrums of the first round. Trevon's combination of athleticism, length, and handle will score well on NBA draft boards. I'll reiterate my pie bet here: Duke will have three first round picks in the 2018 NBA Draft, barring major injury. Any takers?

[Furniture]

I think it's a possibility. I know it wasn't his "plan," but plans change. Grayson's plan was to graduate in three years and then go. For Duval all that matters is where his draft projection falls at the end of the season and I believe right now he is out of the first round or maybe near the end of it. He has plenty of physical tools but there are many other point guards out there who have shown more and would be drafted before him. So we'll see.



The prevailing opinion seems to be that he has no reason to come back because he would come off the bench behind Tre Jones. My personal view is that fans have short memories and seem to forget that a year ago Duval was the point guard of our dreams that we would finally have. Jones will go through his share of freshman struggles as well, regardless of his DNA, and having Duval back for another year would be amazing.


http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2018-picks-order-cavs-bulls-knicks-trae-young-marvin-bagley-iii-luka-doncic-deandre-ayton/2khdk5d15lgt16sdln66qti01

Even with many DBR posters trying their best to jinx the young man he is still hanging in there in the 20 ish + mock drafts. let’s face it guys. He’s gone.

[ChillinDuke]

Still watching the game again after having to only catch glimpses here and there last night due to family stuff. But man, what a fun win!

I thought the second half defense was really interesting. We were still playing a 2-3 zone, but with a few wrinkles. The first is a wrinkle we've been employing for a while, and that's extending the forwards up to the 3pt line on the wing unless Va Tech sent a guy to the corner. That sometimes gave the appearance of a 2-2-1 or sometimes even a 4-1 look.

The second wrinkle I saw was that we started putting ball pressure from one of the two guards just across half-court, while the other dropped down to the free throw line and sealed off the free throw line entry pass. With the forwards pushed up, this wound up looking like a 1-3-1 at times. And then when the ball got to the low blocks, we had the weakside guard crash heavily down into the lane to trap any passing action to the middle. It was a really active and aggressive 2-3 zone. Just a really nice display of how (like with man-to-man) you can run a base defense in different ways to confuse the opponent. I really liked it, and I think it will be critical to have wrinkles like that in the defense moving forward to keep opposing teams from being able to just key in on one strategy to beat our zone.

Aside from that, I was very pleased to see how engaged Duval was on both ends of the floor. He was hustling for loose balls throughout and really talking on defense. Still a work in progress, but I was pleased with what I saw from him. Next achievement to unlock: better ball security/finishing at the rim. He seems to get a little sloppy in finishing out his drives. If he tightens that up, man oh man.

It was also great to see the team involve DeLaurier as a baseline lurker on offense. It is his perfect role, and with the ball spending more time in the hands of the guards/wings, it really opened up opportunities for him. It was one of his most effective performances. He seemed under control rather than the wild puppy that he sometimes appears to be out there. Really strong game.

And of course it was great to see Allen have a huge game. Hopefully this gets his confidence up for the home stretch. If he's a weapon offensively again, we get REALLY hard to defend.

Of course I loved the performances by Carter and Trent. Trent is just on fire from 3. So dialed in, and has such great shot selection that you just expect everything to fall. And Carter is just a manchild down low.

Really fun win. I didn't expect things to go that well, but our zone really flummoxed Va Tech for about a 12-15 minute stretch of the second half, and we just buried them. Hopefully this helps build confidence for the big game this weekend. A win in Littlejohn will really help our cause down the stretch.

I finally got to watch the game late last night, so I'm a little late to the discussion. But I think this post is spot on. In particular the portions I bolded.

I'll skip the comments on the zone, although I thought they were particularly striking and effective in this game.

But the thing I loved seeing most in this game was the engagement. Everyone seemed engaged. Duval, especially, was important because as you said his engagement allows him to "level up" to new abilities. But to my eye, everyone seemed engaged. And it wasn't just engagement, it was speed and decisiveness. Everyone was playing faster, making faster decisions, thinking less and reacting more. It was beautiful. And it has been sorely lacking all season.

I'm not foolish enough to expect this to be the new normal for this year. But it is definitely yet another chance at a springboard to an upward trajectory for this team.

- Chillin

[DukieInBrasil]

I finally got to watch the game late last night, so I'm a little late to the discussion. But I think this post is spot on. In particular the portions I bolded.

I'll skip the comments on the zone, although I thought they were particularly striking and effective in this game.

But the thing I loved seeing most in this game was the engagement. Everyone seemed engaged. Duval, especially, was important because as you said his engagement allows him to "level up" to new abilities. But to my eye, everyone seemed engaged. And it wasn't just engagement, it was speed and decisiveness. Everyone was playing faster, making faster decisions, thinking less and reacting more. It was beautiful. And it has been sorely lacking all season.

I'm not foolish enough to expect this to be the new normal for this year. But it is definitely yet another chance at a springboard to an upward trajectory for this team.

- Chillin

i also finally watched the game last night, and i agree with your perspective. I wanted to zero in on Duval, particularly since a couple of people expressed disappointment with his game or at least the last few minutes. Whatever it is the naysayers saw, i didn't see. I was impressed with his play. He left a couple of layups thru contact a bit short, so he didn't convert a couple of opportunities, but whatevs. He hit 2 3s out of 6 (33%), which is respectable. He had a few turnovers, but during the first 37 minutes of the game, none were brain fart turnovers, which have been his nemesis. It's obvious that he still has a lot to learn about when to push it and when to hold back, how to make the best entry pass to the post and other stuff, but that's what learning is all about, getting to the end point not already being there.
I liked the move of having Grayson essentially being the PG and letting Duval attack off the wing. Having Duval at the top running point limits some of what he does best, which is driving to the rim. So, that was a good coaching move.
I've been harsh on Trevon's performance, never on him as a young man cuz he seems nice and like he genuinely wants to learn while under K's tutelage, and i want to say that despite some struggles here and there, there's definitely improvement in his game. His 3pt shot is not so horrible anymore. He does some really good stuff for this team, and if he continues to improve from where he is now, then i think we'll all be happy with what he gave to Duke this year.

[Saratoga2]

i also finally watched the game last night, and i agree with your perspective. I wanted to zero in on Duval, particularly since a couple of people expressed disappointment with his game or at least the last few minutes. Whatever it is the naysayers saw, i didn't see. I was impressed with his play. He left a couple of layups thru contact a bit short, so he didn't convert a couple of opportunities, but whatevs. He hit 2 3s out of 6 (33%), which is respectable. He had a few turnovers, but during the first 37 minutes of the game, none were brain fart turnovers, which have been his nemesis. It's obvious that he still has a lot to learn about when to push it and when to hold back, how to make the best entry pass to the post and other stuff, but that's what learning is all about, getting to the end point not already being there.
I liked the move of having Grayson essentially being the PG and letting Duval attack off the wing. Having Duval at the top running point limits some of what he does best, which is driving to the rim. So, that was a good coaching move.
I've been harsh on Trevon's performance, never on him as a young man cuz he seems nice and like he genuinely wants to learn while under K's tutelage, and i want to say that despite some struggles here and there, there's definitely improvement in his game. His 3pt shot is not so horrible anymore. He does some really good stuff for this team, and if he continues to improve from where he is now, then i think we'll all be happy with what he gave to Duke this year.

One of the defensive precepts I have always heard is to get the ball out of the middle since that is where the most damage can be done by the offense. Having Grayson there with his better decision making and Trevon to the side probably is the best bet for the team.

[daveduke76]

From up in the end zone later in the first half, at times it looked like a 4-1 zone, with either Antonio or Carter/Bolden playing just in front of the defensive arc. I know it was mostly Javin playing the perimeter since all the VT players were standing outside the 3 point line, but it was working (well, Antonio wasn't great in his couple of minutes there.)

I must have been sitting near you (Row H). Thought I saw the same thing, a 4-1 zone. It seemed pretty fluid, I saw Duval sliding behind Allen taking on a man that was moving into the area Grayson covered. There was a lot of talking, was very active.

[CDu]

I must have been sitting near you (Row H). Thought I saw the same thing, a 4-1 zone. It seemed pretty fluid, I saw Duval sliding behind Allen taking on a man that was moving into the area Grayson covered. There was a lot of talking, was very active.

Still a 2-3, but with the forwards pulled up really high unless a Va Tech player went to the corner. Since Va Tech frequently had 3-4 guys up high, the 2-3 would often give the appearance of a 4-1.

The 2-3 also gave the appearance of a 1-3-1 when we tweaked the guards to have one pressure the ball up top and one drop down as needed to protect the free throw line area.

And at other times, it looked like a 3-2, when one Va Tech player drifted to the corner.

But all of this action was done out of a 2-3 set. Just a great example of how a good zone doesn't always have the same obvious appearance.