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fuse
02-13-2018, 07:18 AM
https://theathletic.com/236536/2018/02/12/gottlieb-the-mistakes-i-made-and-the-price-i-paid/

As one of the people who has razzed Gottlieb on twitter, and for the grief he gets on DBR, I thought this link offers some insight.

richmclean
02-13-2018, 07:21 AM
The alarmingly unathletic 46% FT shooting PG earns props with this article. Good read and good for him.

freshmanjs
02-13-2018, 10:37 AM
I found the article alarmingly self indulgent. He talks about cheating on tests as if that's just a normal thing. He doesn't really address why he had such lack of character as a college student, other than to say he thought he wouldn't get caught. Even now, he teaches his kids that the reason not to do this stuff is you will probably get caught. It's not clear to me that he has really developed much except to realize that he miscalculated the risk / reward.

CDu
02-13-2018, 11:18 AM
I found the article alarmingly self indulgent. He talks about cheating on tests as if that's just a normal thing. He doesn't really address why he had such lack of character as a college student, other than to say he thought he wouldn't get caught. Even now, he teaches his kids that the reason not to do this stuff is you will probably get caught. It's not clear to me that he has really developed much except to realize that he miscalculated the risk / reward.

I didn't get that sense from the article at all. I definitely get the sense he understands what he did was wrong, and the following certainly doesn't suggest to me that he is giving his kids the wrong message:


“I took somebody’s stuff without asking,” I said. “So remember, if you’re ever going to take someone’s stuff, make sure you ask first. You have to have permission.”

Nothing in that statement suggests he is saying "don't do this because you might get caught." The clear implication of that quote is "don't do this because it is wrong."

He also went into a great deal of detail about where his state of mind was at that time. He was depressed, homesick, and generally unhappy. And he did stupid things, because he was a stupid kid at the time. What more is there to say about it? He knows he royally effed up, and that's clear to me from the article. As is that, because he royally effed up, he has paid tenfold since (both monetarily and non-monetarily) and still does to this day (including having to explain his past transgressions to his son, who was embarrassed by a classmate calling him out).

The article does talk a lot about his career. But I think that is part of his message to the UCLA kids who stole in China: "this may feel like the end of the world, but things can still turn out okay for you in the end. I went through something similar, and it was awful, but my life has become better for the lessons I've learned".

The talks about his regret for doing something wrong that ruined his family's name and embarrassed his father. It talks about the guilt that he has that his stupidity may have helped cost MacLeod his job.

No, it doesn't harp on the idea that stealing is wrong. Everyone knows stealing is wrong, so why should the article waste time on that? Instead, it focused on the consequences he faced (and still faces), but also on the opportunity the UCLA kids have to grow from their mistakes/stupidity.

I realize that Gottlieb will never be liked by many Duke fans because of his brash/arrogant on-air personality and the infamous "alarmingly unathletic" comment (which was a totally reasonable statement at the time, by the way; and it should be noted that he still predicted Duke would win the title that Spring in spite of their athleticism). And that's fine, to each their own. But I do think this article is a nice discussion of (a) the impact of his stupidity at Notre Dame, and how it still affects him; (b) the possible "why" kids make these stupid decisions; and (c) the way he rebuilt his life thereafter, offering hope for these kids to be able to still salvage things.

kAzE
02-13-2018, 11:33 AM
He gets some props for coming clean (even though most people with connections to Notre Dame already knew about this stuff), but that was 20 years ago, and he's still a pompous braggart and Duke hater. It is what it is.

kako
02-13-2018, 03:22 PM
I realize that Gottlieb will never be liked by many Duke fans because of his brash/arrogant on-air personality and the infamous "alarmingly unathletic" comment (which was a totally reasonable statement at the time, by the way; and it should be noted that he still predicted Duke would win the title that Spring in spite of their athleticism). And that's fine, to each their own. But I do think this article is a nice discussion of (a) the impact of his stupidity at Notre Dame, and how it still affects him; (b) the possible "why" kids make these stupid decisions; and (c) the way he rebuilt his life thereafter, offering hope for these kids to be able to still salvage things.

Agree with you about the article. Everyone makes mistakes at some level - it's what we do afterwards that counts.

But I still don't like him.

wobatus
02-13-2018, 05:36 PM
Agree with you about the article. Everyone makes mistakes at some level - it's what we do afterwards that counts.

But I still don't like him.


The telling thing to me in the article, only briefly touched on, is that his dad used to smack him around. And they didn't talk much. That may have a lot more to do with the depression he suffered, and acting out by stealing, than the fact it was cold in Indiana in the winters. He's got issues. I'm no psychologist. But that kind of jumped out at me.