Luol Deng's Situation

[SoCalDukeFan]

The Lakers are basically paying Luol millions for doing nothing.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-lakers-deng-plaschke-20180210-story.html

SoCal

[CrazyNotCrazie]

The Lakers are basically paying Luol millions for doing nothing.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-lakers-deng-plaschke-20180210-story.html

SoCal

This is a great summary of why I don't like the NBA. Teams fall over themselves to pay ridiculous contracts that they are trying to back out of within days. All of the salary cap influenced moves and the tanking to get good draft picks takes away from the game on the court. I appreciate that unlike the NFL, contracts are guaranteed, but there should be a way to prevent situations like this, as the goal should be to put the best product on the floor, and having Deng sitting around doing nothing clearly is not accomplishing that when countless inferior players are getting significant PT.

[flyingdutchdevil]

This is a great summary of why I don't like the NBA. Teams fall over themselves to pay ridiculous contracts that they are trying to back out of within days. All of the salary cap influenced moves and the tanking to get good draft picks takes away from the game on the court. I appreciate that unlike the NFL, contracts are guaranteed, but there should be a way to prevent situations like this, as the goal should be to put the best product on the floor, and having Deng sitting around doing nothing clearly is not accomplishing that when countless inferior players are getting significant PT.

1) No one forced Deng to play for the Lakers. They merely offered him the most amount of money. Also, everyone knew the Lakers were going to be in rebuilding mode a year ago. Why they signed Deng and Mozgov is a mystery.

2) Every 10 years or so, the NBA goes through a union change where a team can buy out a player. The Lakers already used this up.

3) Deng is making $18M per year for the next 2.5 years. I feel about as bad for him as a I do when a child of Bill and Melinda Gates gets a B+ on a test (which is to say, I couldn't care less).

4) Deng may be better than some of the "inferior" players, as you say. But he doesn't have more long-term potential. And given the Lakers are in rebuilding mode, it makes sense to player your young guys a lot.

[CDu]

I think it is also fair to note that Deng shot under 40% from the field last year and was a net negative on both ends of the floor. So I'm not even sure that it is fair to say that he is stuck behind inferior players at this point.

It is sad because he was absolutely one of my favorite players as a Bull: a tough, versatile guy always willing to take on the toughest wing defensive assignment and play as many minutes as you wanted of him. But, the years of being among the perennial leaders in minutes per game under Thibs appear to have caught up with him. He's 32, but with the wear-and-tear of a 35-36 year old.

I don't think the Lakers are suffering performance-wise because they aren't playing him. But even if they were suffering a bit, I understand it because Deng is not part of their future. He is a prime example of the down-side (from a team perspective) of the huge cap rise a couple of years ago. He'd have never gotten that deal in a tighter cap world, but the Lakers had money to burn and didn't have the foresight to realize that they should have started their rebuild rather than sign Mozgov and Deng. Still, good for Deng to get that contract when he could.

[Acymetric]

1) No one forced Deng to play for the Lakers. They merely offered him the most amount of money. Also, everyone knew the Lakers were going to be in rebuilding mode a year ago. Why they signed Deng and Mozgov is a mystery.

2) Every 10 years or so, the NBA goes through a union change where a team can buy out a player. The Lakers already used this up.

3) Deng is making $18M per year for the next 2.5 years. I feel about as bad for him as a I do when a child of Bill and Melinda Gates gets a B+ on a test (which is to say, I couldn't care less).

4) Deng may be better than some of the "inferior" players, as you say. But he doesn't have more long-term potential. And given the Lakers are in rebuilding mode, it makes sense to player your young guys a lot.

I don't think the main complaint is Deng's lack of PT in his post, he's complaining about teams tying up money in bad contracts which makes them struggle to field competitive teams (which you sort of alluded to in your last sentence of point 1).

[kako]

I so wished he had hung around another year with Duke (the LSU loss still galls me). Anyway, it's a big problem for him, but that's life working for the man. He's got a huge silver lining. Still, glad he's handling is professionally, so props there. Magic's comments belayed his own intelligence (I can't imagine the Lakers ever getting good with his "guidance"). Hopefully another team will give Deng a chance next year after he's cut so he can go out more on his own terms.

[freshmanjs]

I so wished he had hung around another year with Duke (the LSU loss still galls me). Anyway, it's a big problem for him, but that's life working for the man. He's got a huge silver lining. Still, glad he's handling is professionally, so props there. Magic's comments belayed his own intelligence (I can't imagine the Lakers ever getting good with his "guidance"). Hopefully another team will give Deng a chance next year after he's cut so he can go out more on his own terms.

The LSU loss was in what would have been Deng's junior year.

[budwom]

He left Duke because his family badly needed the money and now he is making mega-gobs of money for sitting still. I'm not seeing the problem.
Anytime he wants to let the Lakers off the financial hook, I'm sure they'll oblige, but I doubt he'll want to do that.

[BeachBlueDevil]

He left Duke because his family badly needed the money and now he is making mega-gobs of money for sitting still. I'm not seeing the problem.
Anytime he wants to let the Lakers off the financial hook, I'm sure they'll oblige, but I doubt he'll want to do that.

Deng is currently mired in a "first world problem". Making as you said "mega-gobs of money" and not playing... I mean what's the alternative? Making the league minimum somewhere or slightly above it and playing 15 min a night or sitting at home making nothing? His problems could be worse. I respect that he wants to play and contributes where he can but it could be waaaay worse for Luol.

[Billy Dat]

He left Duke because his family badly needed the money and now he is making mega-gobs of money for sitting still. I'm not seeing the problem.
Anytime he wants to let the Lakers off the financial hook, I'm sure they'll oblige, but I doubt he'll want to do that.

He has earned $120MM in his career. He is owed $36MM over the next two. I bet the players association has some kind of rules about walking away from that kind of owed money. But, he's already rich beyond his dreams. Time is running out on his ability to play basketball at the highest level, you can't put a price on that.

[left_hook_lacey]

The Lakers are basically paying Luol millions for doing nothing.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-lakers-deng-plaschke-20180210-story.html

SoCal

Trying to figure where the victim is in this. I don't see one. :cool:

[brevity]

He has earned $120MM in his career. He is owed $36MM over the next two. I bet the players association has some kind of rules about walking away from that kind of owed money. But, he's already rich beyond his dreams. Time is running out on his ability to play basketball at the highest level, you can't put a price on that.

Sure you can! It's $36 million!

[flyingdutchdevil]

Sure you can! It's $36 million!

But he's in California. He would have been better resigning with the Heat. Florida state taxes are sweet.

[Highlander]

Why not trade Deng somewhere and offer to cover part of his contract with a new team? Deng gets paid and gets to play out his career, and the Lakers get some relief from his contract. Everybody wins. Is that not allowed?

[cato]

The win-win situation would be for the Lakers to cut Deng, and allow him to sign with another team willing to pay him current market value for this services, and then offset what he receives under that contract against what the Lakers owe on the remainder of the contract. Deng gets to play, the Lakers open up a roster spot and other players are not harmed, since the player (Deng) is not giving back money.

I assume there is a reason why teams/players cannot do this type of deal, since it doesn’t happen. Is that because of the salary cap?

[flyingdutchdevil]

Why not trade Deng somewhere and offer to cover part of his contract with a new team? Deng gets paid and gets to play out his career, and the Lakers get some relief from his contract. Everybody wins. Is that not allowed?

The Lakers would need to give away a good asset (like the Cleveland 1st rounder) to have someone take on Luol's massive contract.

Luol is a good player, but he's not worth any where near $18M a year. He certainly was, but not anymore.

I wouldn't, for instance, want him on the Celtics. We've seen decreasing stats with Luol for the last 4 years. Not sure how serviceable he can actually be right now.

[Highlander]

The Lakers would need to give away a good asset (like the Cleveland 1st rounder) to have someone take on Luol's massive contract.

Luol is a good player, but he's not worth any where near $18M a year. He certainly was, but not anymore.

I wouldn't, for instance, want him on the Celtics. We've seen decreasing stats with Luol for the last 4 years. Not sure how serviceable he can actually be right now.

I'm not advocating you find someone to take his whole contract; I agree that's not going to happen. But would you take Luol for $3-4M a year (hypothetically)? And wouldn't it be worth it to the Lakers to get $3-4M and a roster spot open, even if they have to pay him $14M/year to play somewhere else? Especially since the alternative is paying him $18M and holding down a roster spot.

Maybe it's $1-2M; maybe it's $5-6M. My point is he does have some value on the open market.

It's like a stock that tanked after you bought it. You can hold it for 2 years, after which it is worthless, or you can try to unload it at the current market price and take a loss. Lakers get nothing for Deng if they let him walk in 2 years, and they're still out $36M.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I'm not advocating you find someone to take his whole contract; I agree that's not going to happen. But would you take Luol for $3-4M a year (hypothetically)? And wouldn't it be worth it to the Lakers to get $3-4M and a roster spot open, even if they have to pay him $14M/year to play somewhere else? Especially since the alternative is paying him $18M and holding down a roster spot.

Maybe it's $1-2M; maybe it's $5-6M. My point is he does have some value on the open market.

It's like a stock that tanked after you bought it. You can hold it for 2 years, after which it is worthless, or you can try to unload it at the current market price and take a loss. Lakers get nothing for Deng if they let him walk in 2 years, and they're still out $36M.

Ah. What you say makes more sense.

My push back is the Lakers don't want to win this year. They are content testing out their new and young players. Now, if the Lakers want to sign two max players, buying out Deng's contract makes a ton of sense. But it's not going to happen, at the very minimum, until the summer. And if you're the Lakers, why would you do that?

[budwom]

Deng is currently mired in a "first world problem". Making as you said "mega-gobs of money" and not playing... I mean what's the alternative? Making the league minimum somewhere or slightly above it and playing 15 min a night or sitting at home making nothing? His problems could be worse. I respect that he wants to play and contributes where he can but it could be waaaay worse for Luol.

Heh, when I posted originally, I thought of saying he'd traded a third world problem for a first world one...thought someone might get edgy about that, but it's true.
All that's happened is that a team badly misjudged how long he'd be a really good player...happens in baseball, too, when free agents get 10 year deals...(hello Mr. ARod)...

[Highlander]

Ah. What you say makes more sense.

My push back is the Lakers don't want to win this year. They are content testing out their new and young players. Now, if the Lakers want to sign two max players, buying out Deng's contract makes a ton of sense. But it's not going to happen, at the very minimum, until the summer. And if you're the Lakers, why would you do that?

Gotcha. In that scenario, I could see that paying $14M now to pick up a new player doesn't sound like a great trade-off. And if you think you might try to use him next year as a veteran, okay fine. Even if you think you can get more for Deng on an expiring contract easier than Deng on a 2 year deal, I could see holding him. Regardless, his contract is a sunk cost, and the Lakers will pay $10+M regardless of whether Deng stays or goes.

If they aren't going to eventually move him for something, even if it is for less than his contract value, then it's no different financially to just cut him.

If I were the GM, I would offer him a buyout. If he truly wants to play somewhere, he can take something on his final year to get his release. Or he can do nothing and collect $18M for sitting in the locker room.

[CDu]

I'm not advocating you find someone to take his whole contract; I agree that's not going to happen. But would you take Luol for $3-4M a year (hypothetically)? And wouldn't it be worth it to the Lakers to get $3-4M and a roster spot open, even if they have to pay him $14M/year to play somewhere else? Especially since the alternative is paying him $18M and holding down a roster spot.

Maybe it's $1-2M; maybe it's $5-6M. My point is he does have some value on the open market.

It's like a stock that tanked after you bought it. You can hold it for 2 years, after which it is worthless, or you can try to unload it at the current market price and take a loss. Lakers get nothing for Deng if they let him walk in 2 years, and they're still out $36M.

The problem is that you have to find a taker with either (a) enough cap space to absorb Deng’s contract or (b) a similar-priced deal to trade back. It isn’t like baseball where you can just find a team willing to take him while you absorb the salary. And in either case, you will either have to give up picks/prospects or take back an even worse contract. This is essentially what they did with trading Russell with Mozgov.

There just aren’t many (any?) teams willing to take back Deng’s contract without giving back an equally bad contract or getting valuable assets. And the Lakers don’t have tradable assets unless they give away part of their core.

[MartyClark]

Gotcha. In that scenario, I could see that paying $14M now to pick up a new player doesn't sound like a great trade-off. And if you think you might try to use him next year as a veteran, okay fine. Even if you think you can get more for Deng on an expiring contract easier than Deng on a 2 year deal, I could see holding him. Regardless, his contract is a sunk cost, and the Lakers will pay $10+M regardless of whether Deng stays or goes.

If they aren't going to eventually move him for something, even if it is for less than his contract value, then it's no different financially to just cut him.

If I were the GM, I would offer him a buyout. If he truly wants to play somewhere, he can take something on his final year to get his release. Or he can do nothing and collect $18M for sitting in the locker room.

Good thought, I agree.

On a more subjective level, I barely remember Deng's one year with Duke. He seems like a good guy and he was certainly a good player. At the same time, I have a hard time getting too involved in his current situation (notwithstanding this post). He is making huge money and can take care of himself, his family and his charitable efforts for a long time.

[flyingdutchdevil]

The problem is that you have to find a taker with either (a) enough cap space to absorb Deng’s contract or (b) a similar-priced deal to trade back. It isn’t like baseball where you can just find a team willing to take him while you absorb the salary. And in either case, you will either have to give up picks/prospects or take back an even worse contract. This is essentially what they did with trading Russell with Mozgov.

There just aren’t many (any?) teams willing to take back Deng’s contract without giving back an equally bad contract or getting valuable assets. And the Lakers don’t have tradable assets unless they give away part of their core.

Which they kinda already did in Nance Jr (and to a much lesser extent, Clarkson).

The Lakers are bare bones right now in terms of expendable trade assets, with the exception of Julius Randle. However, I think Randle is worth a lot more than the Lakers give him credit for.

[elvis14]

I just talked with my boss to see if I could swing the Deng situation. I told him that I'd stay home and not work for the next two years as long as they paid me. That way they could reclaim my cube space and move on to younger engineers (although we have lots of empty cubes in this building). Sadly, he didn't take me up on the offer so I guess I'll be back here tomorrow. Oh well, it was worth a shot.

[brevity]

I just talked with my boss to see if I could swing the Deng situation. I told him that I'd stay home and not work for the next two years as long as they paid me. That way they could reclaim my cube space and move on to younger engineers (although we have lots of empty cubes in this building). Sadly, he didn't take me up on the offer so I guess I'll be back here tomorrow. Oh well, it was worth a shot.

You're not doing it right. Fight Club explains how a work-from-home proposal can be accomplished (NSFW):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peNlmAuvKd0

[Kdogg]

The win-win situation would be for the Lakers to cut Deng, and allow him to sign with another team willing to pay him current market value for this services, and then offset what he receives under that contract against what the Lakers owe on the remainder of the contract. Deng gets to play, the Lakers open up a roster spot and other players are not harmed, since the player (Deng) is not giving back money.

I assume there is a reason why teams/players cannot do this type of deal, since it doesn’t happen. Is that because of the salary cap?

The Lakers can do that and might do that over the summer. If they can't trade him or buy him out, they will waive him and use the stretch provision for the $36 million remaining on the contract. That spreads the cap hit to $12 million for the next three years vs $18 million for two years freeing up $6 million. Heck I've read some wild sceneries where they could EXTEND him and then waive him to spread it out over a longer period to free up even more cap space. The stretch provision was designed for this exact scenario. If he signs with an other team the Lakers reduce their obligation by some percentage of the new salary.

[fuse]

I volunteer to sit on the bench in Dengs place and not play in return for half of what he makes over the next two years :rolleyes:

[johnb]

I so wished he had hung around another year with Duke (the LSU loss still galls me). Anyway, it's a big problem for him, but that's life working for the man. He's got a huge silver lining. Still, glad he's handling is professionally, so props there. Magic's comments belayed his own intelligence (I can't imagine the Lakers ever getting good with his "guidance"). Hopefully another team will give Deng a chance next year after he's cut so he can go out more on his own terms.

Luol wasn't a good player for us--he was GREAT. He game appeared effortless, but I seem to recall that it took the rest of the guys about 15 minutes of the first practice to recognize who was the best player on the team.

He also was/is a terrific, bright, thoughtful guy.

I'd love for him to have stayed a couple more years.

Impossible to predict how things would have gone. How about a career ending injury that would have cost him +/- $100 million?

Or, more likely, he would not have gotten this last contract and would be down maybe $35 million. He can afford that, I guess, but that's a lot of money to pay for a couple extra seasons at Duke.

[BeachBlueDevil]

Heh, when I posted originally, I thought of saying he'd traded a third world problem for a first world one...thought someone might get edgy about that, but it's true.
All that's happened is that a team badly misjudged how long he'd be a really good player...happens in baseball, too, when free agents get 10 year deals...(hello Mr. ARod)...

I thought it was a little to edgy at first when I wrote it.....That said, this does happen all the time. I bet the Angels wish they could go back and get out from under that deal they gave Albert Pujols. It's always that short sighted "win now and let's not worry about the money" mentality.

[Highlander]

The Lakers can do that and might do that over the summer. If they can't trade him or buy him out, they will waive him and use the stretch provision for the $36 million remaining on the contract. That spreads the cap hit to $12 million for the next three years vs $18 million for two years freeing up $6 million. Heck I've read some wild sceneries where they could EXTEND him and then waive him to spread it out over a longer period to free up even more cap space. The stretch provision was designed for this exact scenario. If he signs with an other team the Lakers reduce their obligation by some percentage of the new salary.

Interesting proposition. Of all the proposed ideas this one looks to be the most reasonable for the Lakers.

[sagegrouse]

Interesting proposition. Of all the proposed ideas this one looks to be the most reasonable for the Lakers.

Can we at least all agree that Luol's situation is to be envied, not pitied?

I also have second-hand word that Kyle Singler "has the best job in the world," in his own words.

[Ranidad]

Loan to a European team?

I don’t know the details but soccer leagues often retain rights to a player but loan them to another team.

It seems like that type of scenario would benefit both Luol and the Lakers. He gets to play somewhere and the Lakers get something to help offset their salary commitment.

[CDu]

Loan to a European team?

I don’t know the details but soccer leagues often retain rights to a player but loan them to another team.

It seems like that type of scenario would benefit both Luol and the Lakers. He gets to play somewhere and the Lakers get something to help offset their salary commitment.

Different rules. Soccer leagues don’t have salary caps to deal with.

[kako]

Luol wasn't a good player for us--he was GREAT. He game appeared effortless, but I seem to recall that it took the rest of the guys about 15 minutes of the first practice to recognize who was the best player on the team.

He also was/is a terrific, bright, thoughtful guy.

I'd love for him to have stayed a couple more years.

Impossible to predict how things would have gone. How about a career ending injury that would have cost him +/- $100 million?

Or, more likely, he would not have gotten this last contract and would be down maybe $35 million. He can afford that, I guess, but that's a lot of money to pay for a couple extra seasons at Duke.

I didn't mean to suggest Deng shouldn't have gone pro. He very wisely took the money to actually get paid for his services (as opposed to the indentured service life in the NCAA). I just very selfishly wish he had stayed, along with almost every other Duke guy who left early.

[awhom111]

I wonder if he would ever consider asking to be assigned to the G League on an off day.

[djp10]

The Lakers can do that and might do that over the summer. If they can't trade him or buy him out, they will waive him and use the stretch provision for the $36 million remaining on the contract. That spreads the cap hit to $12 million for the next three years vs $18 million for two years freeing up $6 million. Heck I've read some wild sceneries where they could EXTEND him and then waive him to spread it out over a longer period to free up even more cap space. The stretch provision was designed for this exact scenario. If he signs with an other team the Lakers reduce their obligation by some percentage of the new salary.
I believe the provision would stretch the remaining $36M over 5 years (2x+1)—saving ~$11M in cap space for the next 2 years while adding $7.2 for the last 3 years

[Kdogg]

I believe the provision would stretch the remaining $36M over 5 years (2x+1)—saving ~$11M in cap space for the next 2 years while adding $7.2 for the last 3 years

You're right. Two times the remaining length plus one. That make's it a no brainer.