Pyeongchang

[cato]

Who’s watching?

I wasn’t all that excited, but a bit of luge and some snowboarding have me engaged.

[mattman91]

Who’s watching?

I wasn’t all that excited, but a bit of luge and some snowboarding have me engaged.

Wake me up when curling starts.

[DukieInKansas]

Wake me up when curling starts.

Mixed doubles has already started. The American siblings are out of medal contention.

The opening ceremony brought back lots of good memories of my early teen years. Korea will always promote a feeling of home for me.

[wavedukefan70s]

I think it's very cool the Korea's joined for the games.maybe one day they can rejoin .with good leadership.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I have always been a huge Winter Olympics fan. The Olympic theme song and the traditional winter camera shots of snow covered mountains give me chills.

I love sports like luge, bobsled, all of the skiing, etc. I generally prefer sports where the outcome is not at a judge's discretion. I have not been a big fan of the recent growth of snowboarding but based on the programming schedule I think I am in a minority. The coverage across multiple channels allows me to see what I want - tonight I watched the cross country skiing race rather than the ice skating.

[duketaylor]

This is the third night I've watched curling (on as I type) and I watched some luge this morning and I really like ski jumping and the downhill. Skating is decent, but curling I've grown to love. I somewhat enjoyed the biathlon this afternoon. Hope I get to view two female Scandanavian teams curl against each other:cool:

[budwom]

This is the third night I've watched curling (on as I type) and I watched some luge this morning and I really like ski jumping and the downhill. Skating is decent, but curling I've grown to love. I somewhat enjoyed the biathlon this afternoon. Hope I get to view two female Scandanavian teams curl against each other:cool:

Curling is the kind of sport you can take with you into retirement, transitioning into cruise ship shuffleboard. Deceivingly entertaining, I got into it years ago watching CBC (Canuck) television...

[weezie]

A bit yawny with the time delay, preliminaries, etc.

Not feeling any of it yet.

Watched Clapton, Life in 12 Bars last night instead. I enjoyed the heck out that!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

A bit yawny with the time delay, preliminaries, etc.

Not feeling any of it yet.

Watched Clapton, Life in 12 Bars last night instead. I enjoyed the heck out that!

Download the NBC Sports app. You can watch live or replays of any competition regardless of time difference. Also, you can watch without horrible, horrible commentary.

[weezie]

Download the NBC Sports app. You can watch live or replays of any competition regardless of time difference. Also, you can watch without horrible, horrible commentary.

Thanks.
Meh, not that into any of it. The over-hype on Vonn and White and NBC endless soft focus and "heartfelt" stories of trials and advertising attractiveness is tiresome.

[budwom]

A lot of NBC drivel dominates, but I did tune in for about 20 minutes last night to watch Red Gerard (age 17) winning the snowboard whatever (rails and jumps). Impressive and clutch.
I don't know all the intricacies of snowboard finance, but I somehow suspect the gold medal might have made the young lad a million bucks or more (much more?) in endorsements.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Thanks.
Meh, not that into any of it. The over-hype on Vonn and White and NBC endless soft focus and "heartfelt" stories of trials and advertising attractiveness is tiresome.

That's why the app is great. No "storylines." And you can watch sports that don't get much network coverage.

[Duke79UNLV77]

Skiing is one of my favorite sports to do, and to watch. Love it! I have a friend watching his brother over there in biathlon. Like the speed skating. Too much curling. Should a parlor game be an Olympic sport??

[Reisen]

Skiing is one of my favorite sports to do, and to watch. Love it!

I'm with you. Disappointed in all the wind delays, but enjoyed watching moguls. Heading to Vail for 5 days next month to partake, and really looking forward to that!

[weezie]

...moguls... Heading to Vail...

I went down moguls...once. Made it down in one piece too! That was great. Batting 1.000! Walked away a champ.

Now Vail is just about as close to heaven as you can get on this earth. Love me some Vail.

Ok, back to Oly chatter.

[BigWayne]

I have it all recording on my DVRs, especially the NBCSN version where it's not quite as packaged for the targeted prime time audience, and pick through to see what I want. That way I don't have to endure the endless teasing of upcoming events and the fluff segments.

Trying to keep track of how many times the announcers get Pyeongchang and Pyongyang confused. Even the DBR spell checker wants me to change Pyeongchang to Pyongyang.

[JasonEvans]

No... this did not happen... I am speechless.

http://www.trbimg.com/img-5a8215a5/turbine/ct-1518474657-b4kcyosknt-snap-image/750/750x422

I have never been an Olympic athlete, but I think I would really have a shot in the PF Chang Olympics. We need to make Gen. Tzao's Chicken Chewing an olympic event!

-Jason "don't miss the massive graphic fail on the olympic rings! The artist who designed this graphic wanted to make sure everything on it was wrong!" Evans

[OldPhiKap]

No... this did not happen... I am speechless.

http://www.trbimg.com/img-5a8215a5/turbine/ct-1518474657-b4kcyosknt-snap-image/750/750x422

I have never been an Olympic athlete, but I think I would really have a shot in the PF Chang Olympics. We need to make Gen. Tzao's Chicken Chewing an olympic event!

-Jason "don't miss the massive graphic fail on the olympic rings! The artist who designed this graphic wanted to make sure everything on it was wrong!" Evans

Budget cuts must be hitting ABC Channel 7 Chicago pretty hard.

[weezie]

Def a chance at the silver on those chicken lettuce cup things.

[sue71, esq]

The crispy green beans are mine!

[sue71, esq]

And double epic fail to ABC7 Chicago.

[cato]

Chloe Kim! I was skeptical of the hype, but wow. She won it on her first run, and then crushed it on her victory lap.

[DukieInKansas]

NBC appears to be airing their primetime coverage 3 times - initial time and then back to back after local late news. Based on the time difference, couldn't the second replay be new live coverage? Is online and USA the only place to see new coverage over night in the US?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

NBC appears to be airing their primetime coverage 3 times - initial time and then back to back after local late news. Based on the time difference, couldn't the second replay be new live coverage? Is online and USA the only place to see new coverage over night in the US?

Haven't watched a speck of "live" network coverage. Still loving the app and the choices it offers.

[cato]

NBC appears to be airing their primetime coverage 3 times - initial time and then back to back after local late news. Based on the time difference, couldn't the second replay be new live coverage? Is online and USA the only place to see new coverage over night in the US?

Do you have a way of using the NBC Sports app on your TV? It gives you so many more options.

[killerleft]

Chloe Kim! I was skeptical of the hype, but wow. She won it on her first run, and then crushed it on her victory lap.

Agreed. I figured she'd win after she cut her eyes toward me during the Opening Ceremonies. But I wasn't prepared for her to be way, way better than the competition. Tiger Woods whomping up on the field in the 2000 US Open at Pebble Beach good!

[Channing]

US luger Emily Sweeney had a nasty wipe-out this morning (Eastern time). I was watching while kids got ready for the day and thought she had just paralyzed herself. Fortunately it sounds like she will be ok.


https://www.nbcolympics.com/news/emily-sweeney-crashes-final-run-reportedly-says-she-fine

[Blue in the Face]

Shaun White is a boss.

[cato]

Shaun White is a boss.

He sure is. It looked like he felt the pressure on his second run, a few minutes after getting one-upped. But he refined his run just enough for his last pass that he nailed his big back-to-back tricks and then kept everything else together.

He did not look as loose and relaxed as Chloe, but still. Wow.

I’m sad the slope style and half pipe events are over. Bring on the racing!

[BigWayne]

He sure is. It looked like he felt the pressure on his second run, a few minutes after getting one-upped. But he refined his run just enough for his last pass that he nailed his big back-to-back tricks and then kept everything else together.

He did not look as loose and relaxed as Chloe, but still. Wow.

I’m sad the slope style and half pipe events are over. Bring on the racing!

The boardercross is one of the best events at the winter olympics. Next two days I think.

[gus]

The boardercross is one of the best events at the winter olympics. Next two days I think.

Speaking of boardercross, I saw this article on NYT:

The Haunting of Lindsey Jacobellis (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/14/sports/olympics/lindsey-jacobellis-olympics-snowboard.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=image&module=photo-spot-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news)

[gus]

So a Frenchman got German citizenship so he could compete with a Ukrainian woman in the olympics. Makes sense.

[westwall]

A lot of NBC drivel dominates, but I did tune in for about 20 minutes last night to watch Red Gerard (age 17) winning the snowboard whatever (rails and jumps). Impressive and clutch.
I don't know all the intricacies of snowboard finance, but I somehow suspect the gold medal might have made the young lad a million bucks or more (much more?) in endorsements.

which may in turn support a few more off-season jobs in Silverthorne CO.

[cato]

Amazing run by Gallhuber! Flawless and so fast

[cato]

Boom. Boom. Last two runs were fantastic. Women’s slalom was great.

[left_hook_lacey]

I can only look in wonder at the scale and steepness of the slopes these men and women go down at such fast speeds. Human beings are able to accomplish amazing things.

[Ggallagher]

I can only look in wonder at the scale and steepness of the slopes these men and women go down at such fast speeds. Human beings are able to accomplish amazing things.

Getting on an Olympic downhill course is REALLY eye-opening. Years ago I went to Lake Louise and signed up to ski with the Canadian ski patrol all week. It was definitely the best ski vacation I ever took. The instructor took my group (all intermediate level skiers) onto the down hill race course they have there. We made it all the way down - doing some serious traversing the entire time. I think if any of us had pointed our skis straight down hill we would have been out of sight in about five seconds.

The thing I've never forgotten was that when we stopped to regroup at the end of an especially challenging part of the course, the instructor said, "I know that last section seemed kind of challenging, but during a real competition, the skiers would have been air-borne through that whole section."

I really enjoyed the beer when we finally made it to the bottom.

[Duke79UNLV77]

Getting on an Olympic downhill course is REALLY eye-opening. Years ago I went to Lake Louise and signed up to ski with the Canadian ski patrol all week. It was definitely the best ski vacation I ever took. The instructor took my group (all intermediate level skiers) onto the down hill race course they have there. We made it all the way down - doing some serious traversing the entire time. I think if any of us had pointed our skis straight down hill we would have been out of sight in about five seconds.

The thing I've never forgotten was that when we stopped to regroup at the end of an especially challenging part of the course, the instructor said, "I know that last section seemed kind of challenging, but during a real competition, the skiers would have been air-borne through that whole section."

I really enjoyed the beer when we finally made it to the bottom.

Not only that, but I've seen them hose the course before a race to make it icier/faster. So, the skiiers are barreling down the mountain going almost 80 mph and then have to edge super hard on ice to make turns. I wish we could see a solid weekend warrior athlete alongside Olympic athletes skiing, swimming, running, etc. It would really put into perspective how phenomenal they are!

[left_hook_lacey]

Not only that, but I've seen them hose the course before a race to make it icier/faster. So, the skiiers are barreling down the mountain going almost 80 mph and then have to edge super hard on ice to make turns. I wish we could see a solid weekend warrior athlete alongside Olympic athletes skiing, swimming, running, etc. It would really put into perspective how phenomenal they are!

Pros vs Joes, Olympic edition. Would be great TV.

[JasonEvans]

Holy #!^!^

The Tongan guy who only started cross country skiing 3 months ago so he could carry the flag in the opening ceremonies again and show off his physique to the world didn't finish last in the cross country event today. He didn't finish 2nd to last either. He finished 114 out of 119 competitors. That's kinda amazing when you consider that he had never even put skis on his body until 3 months ago.

[weezie]

Holy #!^!^

The Tongan guy...finished 114 out of 119 competitors...

I would be happy to represent DBR in Tonga at Pita's welcome home parade. Contributions gratefully accepted for my travel expenses. And, can I get one of those DBR press credential passes in order to interview the young man? The very attractive, very well built young man? :cool:

[duketaylor]

Not only that, but I've seen them hose the course before a race to make it icier/faster. So, the skiiers are barreling down the mountain going almost 80 mph and then have to edge super hard on ice to make turns. I wish we could see a solid weekend warrior athlete alongside Olympic athletes skiing, swimming, running, etc. It would really put into perspective how phenomenal they are!

If you play weekend/fun golf, just go play some of the courses in your state that host State Ams, Opens or Tour events and play the tees all the way back. That's about as close most folks can get to the appreciation level that you're talking about. I've been watching luge and skeleton with incredible awe, I'd fear death trying that. Hence, I love curling, as long as there are kegs on both ends!!!:cool:

[BigWayne]

Pros vs Joes, Olympic edition. Would be great TV.

Would generate a lot of new footage to compete with Vinko Bogataj's crash.

[DukieInKansas]

My goal each Olympics is to see at least a little of each sport. So far, the only one I have missed this time around is Nordic Combined. Can I count it as seen if I have seen Ski Jumping and Cross Country but not as part of the same event?

[DukieInKansas]

So an athlete has failed a drug test. Show of hands - who thought the first announced positive to a drug test at the Olympics would be a curler?

[camion]

So an athlete has failed a drug test. Show of hands - who thought the first announced positive to a drug test at the Olympics would be a curler?

Well maybe. Does the athlete frequent this online space (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?3840-Ymm-Beer) for drug information? :)

[DukieInKansas]

Well maybe. Does the athlete frequent this online space (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?3840-Ymm-Beer) for drug information? :)

Only if they are the 12 oz. curlers and not the curlers that let the stone go before the hog line in the hopes that it will cross the other hog line and the rock will land on the button in the house. (Or something like that - just threw in as many curling words as I could think of off the top of my head.)

[Tom B.]

So an athlete has failed a drug test. Show of hands - who thought the first announced positive to a drug test at the Olympics would be a curler?

A curler? No. A Russian? Well, duh.

Speaking of Russians and doping, Dan Patrick was raving about the documentary Icarus on his show this morning. It's nominated for an Oscar. Might have to check it out.

Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXoRdSTrR-4

Some grumbling and griping in various corners of the Internet about the USA's pedestrian medal haul so far. There have been some individual disappointments, like Nathan Chen in men's skating and Lindsey Vonn in the Super-G (though, to be fair, that's not her best event -- her specialty is the downhill). But in every Olympics, there's always a few individual medal hopefuls who fail to get on the podium, and a few surprises who do. That's nothing new.

The biggest question, IMO, is what has happened to U.S. speed skating? The U.S. won double-digit medals in speed skating in 2002 (11 -- 8 long track, 3 short track), 2006 (10 -- 7 long track, 3 short track), and 2010 (10 -- 4 long track, 6 short track). But now we're looking at the second straight winter games in which the U.S. wins a grand total of one speed skating medal. In 2014, it was a silver in the men's 5000m short track relay. So far in PyeongChang, the U.S. has only John-Henry Kruger's silver in the men's 1000m short track race. The U.S. does have a shot at a medal in the women's long track team pursuit event (though the best we can hope for there is probably bronze, because the U.S. is matched up in the semifinals against the Netherlands, which has been crushing the speed skating events).

The U.S. also isn't doing as well in the freestyle skiing events this year as it's done in the past, though there are still some events left -- both skicross events (but the U.S. doesn't have an entrant in the men's skicross) and the men's ski halfpipe.

Really looking forward to U.S. vs. Canada for the gold medal in women's hockey.

[OldPhiKap]

Vinko Bogataj's crash.

That's an indelible childhood memory. Every weekend.

[sue71, esq]

SPOILER ALERT
Women's Figure Skating
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US ladies succumbed to nerves, pressure, whatever. Not a great showing. 2 of the Russian (OAR) ladies owned it. So did Osmond from Canada.

Side note: trying a harder jump and falling gets more points than the same jump perfectly executed but one less revolution?!? Dang, I'd try all super hard jumps just for the points. I know, artistry, component scores, etc. But still, it doesn't seem right. Reward daredevils and penalize (essentially) clean, perfectly executed routines.

[DukieInKansas]

I don't get that scoring issue. I think a perfect double should count at least as much as a failed triple.

[JasonEvans]

Look, I quite often find Deadspin to be provocative and sarcastic and foul-mouthed just for the sake of it... but every so often they really get it. Like in this scalding criticism (https://deadspin.com/bode-miller-is-the-worst-sports-commentator-who-ever-li-1823188620)of Bode Miller's skiing announcing (warning, lots of NSFW language in that link).


You are watching the rote, bloodless recitation of a script written and published at the dawn of time. It’s like having the games narrated by Anton Chigurh, only without the enlivening possibility that he will murder someone.

A grisly, spectacular crash is disappointing but inevitable. A bad run is disappointing but inevitable. A good run that falls short of the medals podium is disappointing but inevitable. A gold-medal-winning run isn’t disappointing, but then again nobody in particular deserves any credit for it, because the skier didn’t do anything any better than anybody else, and more probably did many things much worse, but under more favorable circumstances; it was inevitable. Miller’s task is to make sure you understand that none of this has the capacity to surprise him in the least. The purpose of the Winter Olympics is to prove the Winter Olympics cannot get a rise out of Bode Miller.

He is like a vampire that sucks fun and drama out of sporting events. He has turned some of the Olympics’ most exciting and dangerous spectacles into dirges.

-Jason "I'll admit it... the article made my laugh out loud at times" Evans

[gus]

Look, I quite often find Deadspin to be provocative and sarcastic and foul-mouthed just for the sake of it... but every so often they really get it. Like in this scalding criticism (https://deadspin.com/bode-miller-is-the-worst-sports-commentator-who-ever-li-1823188620)of Bode Miller's skiing announcing (warning, lots of NSFW language in that link).



-Jason "I'll admit it... the article made my laugh out loud at times" Evans

Bode Miller has an enormous amount insight and knowledge about the sport and amazing gift for making me tune out and look for something exciting, like curling.

[BigWayne]

Bode Miller has an enormous amount insight and knowledge about the sport and amazing gift for making me tune out and look for something exciting, like curling.

Maybe they can put him at the curling arena so we don't have to listen to that one dude explain the rules every ten minutes.

[Tom B.]

Look, I quite often find Deadspin to be provocative and sarcastic and foul-mouthed just for the sake of it... but every so often they really get it. Like in this scalding criticism (https://deadspin.com/bode-miller-is-the-worst-sports-commentator-who-ever-li-1823188620)of Bode Miller's skiing announcing (warning, lots of NSFW language in that link).



-Jason "I'll admit it... the article made my laugh out loud at times" Evans

I think my favorite Bode moment was last night during the women's downhill. Sofia Goggia of Italy was a little bit behind at the first two or three intermediate time checks, and Bode couldn't stop harping on how critical it was that she not lose time on the top, how much trouble she was in because she was running behind, how virtually impossible it would be to make up time on the lower half, etc. Then she stomped on the gas in the middle section, crossed the finish line in first place, and won the event. From that point on, Bode couldn't stop gushing about what a great run she had.

Then, for good measure, after the first 10 or so skiers had completed their runs, Bode starts talking about how the course and wind conditions early in the competition were so much more favorable, but now they've gotten worse and there's no way any of the remaining skiers will be able to put together a good enough run to get on the podium. Sure enough, along comes Norway's Ragnhild Mowinckel -- 19th in the start order -- and busts out a great run that puts her in second place, just 0.09 seconds behind Goggia. More gushing from Bode.

It reminded me of the Duke-UNLV game in the 1991 Final Four, when Duke was down by five late and Billy Packer kept saying Duke didn't need a three-pointer -- then Hurley comes down the floor and drills a stone-cold three, as if to say, "Shut up, Packer." Then Billy turns on a dime and starts hyperventilating about what a great shot that was, "because it was available!"

[BigWayne]

Holy #!^!^

The Tongan guy who only started cross country skiing 3 months ago so he could carry the flag in the opening ceremonies again and show off his physique to the world didn't finish last in the cross country event today. He didn't finish 2nd to last either. He finished 114 out of 119 competitors. That's kinda amazing when you consider that he had never even put skis on his body until 3 months ago.

It's like a little club of Eddie the Eagle wannabes. (http://time.com/5162759/olympic-skier-german-madrazo-dead-last-reaction/)

Interesting article that explains some of how these Olympic tourists get there. (https://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/meet-olympic-athletes-probably-dont-belong/)

One that takes the cake though is Elizabeth Swamey. (https://twitter.com/NBCOlympics/status/965746567192997889?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fpjmedia.com%2Flifestyle%2Fme et-olympic-athletes-probably-dont-belong%2F)

[duke79]

It's like a little club of Eddie the Eagle wannabes. (http://time.com/5162759/olympic-skier-german-madrazo-dead-last-reaction/)

Interesting article that explains some of how these Olympic tourists get there. (https://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/meet-olympic-athletes-probably-dont-belong/)

One that takes the cake though is Elizabeth Swamey. (https://twitter.com/NBCOlympics/status/965746567192997889?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fpjmedia.com%2Flifestyle%2Fme et-olympic-athletes-probably-dont-belong%2F)



LOL, yea, give me a few days practice in the half pipe and I think I could put in a better performance!

[Tom B.]

[/B]

LOL, yea, give me a few days practice in the half pipe and I think I could put in a better performance!

Best part is the commentators desperately trying to come up with something -- anything -- to say about her run.

[wilson]

The US women’s cross country skiing gold medal is a pretty great story:
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetorch/2018/02/21/587513454/kikkan-randall-the-only-mom-on-team-usa-just-won-a-gold-medal-in-her-last-event

[JasonEvans]

https://dessertating.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/americas-hat2.jpg

Hockey and Curling!! Suck it Canucks!!

[JasonEvans]

Holy !#@%!~

US wins gold in curling as they score a 5er in the 8th end to break open a 5-5 match. Here is the key shot that basically ended the match.

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--QpD8pLrG--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/uhe4sbzezrgdsf9zawes.gif

[JasonEvans]

Also, Ester Ledecká did the unfathomable by winning gold in the snowboard parallel slalom a few days after winning gold in skiing. While it would be easy to think of skiing and snowboarding as similar, the notion that you could be the best in the world at two different disciplines like that... well, it just doesn't happen. It has never been done before.

[Bostondevil]

[/B]

LOL, yea, give me a few days practice in the half pipe and I think I could put in a better performance!

According to one of the articles written about her - she doesn't crash, like ever. She does what she can do and she nails it every time. So, I'm going to tease you - do you really think you could do better than that - spend 3 years earning enough World Cup points to qualify without ever crashing?

Maybe the rules should be changed, maybe not. But she followed the rules as they exist right now and she earned her spot.

Still - why does she get made fun of and the Tonga cross-country skier is applauded? You can say "She finished last!" Or you could say she finished 24th when the Tonganese guy finished 114th. She's the best Hungary has to offer. And before you start complaining that she's American and not Hungarian and why should a Hungarian grandmother qualify her for the Olympics, just check out where almost all of the freestyle skiers and snowboarders train. What does it really mean to ski for your country when all of your training and coaching takes place in the US? I was talking about Ms. Swaney with a friend and we agreed that if she were say, 54 years old, and took up freestyle skiing only to be able to say she competed in the Olympics and did the exact same run, she'd be a media darling. And three skiers had qualifying runs that scored below her worst score. She wasn't even in last place after the first run.

[Bostondevil]

Also, Ester Ledecká did the unfathomable by winning gold in the snowboard parallel slalom a few days after winning gold in skiing. While it would be easy to think of skiing and snowboarding as similar, the notion that you could be the best in the world at two different disciplines like that... well, it just doesn't happen. It has never been done before.

Lauryn Williams came oh so close.

So did Clara Hughes and that German speedskater/cyclist. I'll have to look up her name. Christa Luding-Rothenburger

[Bostondevil]

I posted over in the LTE some thoughts about the ladies' figure skating results. I disagree with them. If anyone is interested, I'll restate my opinion here. (I have been a figure skating fan my entire life. I imagine if I hadn't grown up in Durham where the only ice rink within 50 miles was the Daniel Boone Inn, I probably would have begged my parents to let me take figure skating lessons. I have strong opinions about Biellmann spins. And I think they should bring back the school figures - they don't have to televise them, but they should be doing them.)

[pfrduke]

I posted over in the LTE some thoughts about the ladies' figure skating results. I disagree with them. If anyone is interested, I'll restate my opinion here. (I have been a figure skating fan my entire life. I imagine if I hadn't grown up in Durham where the only ice rink within 50 miles was the Daniel Boone Inn, I probably would have begged my parents to let me take figure skating lessons. I have strong opinions about Biellmann spins. And I think they should bring back the school figures - they don't have to televise them, but they should be doing them.)

I’m interested (but not interested enough to wade through the LTE)

[Bostondevil]

I’m interested (but not interested enough to wade through the LTE)

Of the previous 6 Olympic gold medal winners in ladies' figure skating, only one, Yuna Kim, ever went on to win either another Olympic medal or even to medal at the World Championships. Granted the 2006 winner Shizuka Arakawa was 25 when she won and retired from amateur competitions shortly after her win, but the rest were teenagers. Kim was the only one over 18 when she won (she was 19 at the 2010 Olympics), all the others were out of the sport by age 18, mostly due to injury. I do think that the changes in judging have made figure skating more fair, but, I strongly disagree with the overemphasis on jumps. If all that matters is landing a triple lutz/triple loop combination after 2 minutes of skating around, just dispense with the other stuff, rename it Figure Skating Big Air or Figure Skating Best Trick and send them all out there to do the best triple jump combination that they can. Maybe even give them 3 tries and take the highest score. That said two minutes of skating around with a few spins thrown in then jump, jump, jump, jump, jump, oh and I think I'll jump again, is both an unbalanced and a boring program. That's what Zagitova did. She won because of the 10% bonus for putting all her jumps at the end of the program. I hear the rules will probably change because of it. Good. Without that, she loses to Medvedeva - as she should have. For the first time since they switched from the old ordinal system to the points, I longed for a return. No way the judges of 15 years ago would have rewarded Zagitova's program when they could pick Medvedeva's. Heck, 15 years ago, I bet she wins bronze behind Medvedeva and Osmond.

I wish the points system would be overhauled to reward good skating - give complicated footwork sequences that show skating mastery and changes of edge higher marks, give negative GOEs to spins that travel or wobble or are those horrible to watch, badly positioned, slow wanker Biellmann spins. If you can't do it as well as Denise Biellmann did it (or Alyssa Czisny - now there was a spinner) then stop! Now that they have gone to a point total system though, I am quite serious that they should bring back the school figures. Enough with the "come from nowhere" Olympic gold medalists who go right back to nowhere once they win. OK, Tara Lipinski didn't go nowhere (she turned pro), but she retired from her pro skating career shortly after turning 19. She suffered with chronic hip problems throughout her pro career.

[cato]

According to one of the articles written about her - she doesn't crash, like ever. She does what she can do and she nails it every time.

Wait, did you watch her run? I sure hope she doesn’t crash, because she doesn’t do anything! Falling wouldn’t even qualify as crashing. It would just be a fall.

[gus]

Wait, did you watch her run? I sure hope she doesn’t crash, because she doesn’t do anything! Falling wouldn’t even qualify as crashing. It would just be a fall.

Seriously-- her run was what I did when I ended up in a half pipe by mistake.

[Bostondevil]

Wait, did you watch her run? I sure hope she doesn’t crash, because she doesn’t do anything! Falling wouldn’t even qualify as crashing. It would just be a fall.

Yes, I watched her run. She clears the lip of the halfpipe on 2 tricks, her "air" is at most 2 feet, but it's still air. And she does what they call an "alley oop" which looks like a pretty simple move, but, it's still a move with a name, so, I disagree with your analysis that she doesn't do anything. I have no idea how steep these halfpipes are - do you? I don't ski either. But I seriously doubt anybody could go out and do what she does with no training. Perhaps I'm wrong.

[Bostondevil]

Seriously-- her run was what I did when I ended up in a half pipe by mistake.

You've been on a half pipe? That sounds exciting! How steep are they? Was it a regulation half pipe? And I'm curious - how does one end up on a half pipe by mistake? I don't ski, well, I've water skied but I suspect skiing a half pipe is quite different. How experienced a skier do you think you would need to be to get down a half pipe without hurting yourself, even if you're there by mistake?

[Bostondevil]

Wait, did you watch her run? I sure hope she doesn’t crash, because she doesn’t do anything! Falling wouldn’t even qualify as crashing. It would just be a fall.

Also - OK, she doesn't fall. Don't most skiers fall down on occasion? Even good ones?

[crimsondevil]

...I wish the points system would be overhauled to reward good skating - give complicated footwork sequences that show skating mastery and changes of edge higher marks, give negative GOEs to spins that travel or wobble or are those horrible to watch, badly positioned, slow wanker Biellmann spins. If you can't do it as well as Denise Biellmann did it (or Alyssa Czisny - now there was a spinner) then stop!

Watching the skating, I also thought that a lot of the spins seemed lower quality than I remembered, both in "wobbliness" and how often the skater "traveled" significantly while spinning. Good to hear confirmation from someone more knowledgeable than I.

[cato]

Also - OK, she doesn't fall. Don't most skiers fall down on occasion? Even good ones?

The older you get, the more falling hurts. That tends to lead to less falling as time goes on.

The half-pipes these folks go on are very large and very intimidating. Dropping in is scary, and making it up the other side is not as easy at it might look.

But it isn’t that hard. Seriously. Any skier who can handle any terrain a big mountain throws at them could learn to pull off that run pretty easily. It would be harder on a snowboard.

Congrats to her for figuring out how to pull of the bare minimum to participate in the Olympics. But she gamed the system. I saw tons of kids last week at Mammoth who would have done better.

[Duke79UNLV77]

You've been on a half pipe? That sounds exciting! How steep are they? Was it a regulation half pipe? And I'm curious - how does one end up on a half pipe by mistake? I don't ski, well, I've water skied but I suspect skiing a half pipe is quite different. How experienced a skier do you think you would need to be to get down a half pipe without hurting yourself, even if you're there by mistake?

I've skied from a young age, but don't live in ski country, so I'm just a one or two trip a year skier, with fine, but by no means exceptional, athletic ability. I think I could have done what she did. Whether what she did was the quintessence or a mockery of the Olympic spirit is in the eye of the beholder.

[Rich]

I wish the points system would be overhauled to reward good skating - give complicated footwork sequences that show skating mastery and changes of edge higher marks, give negative GOEs to spins that travel or wobble or are those horrible to watch, badly positioned, slow wanker Biellmann spins. If you can't do it as well as Denise Biellmann did it (or Alyssa Czisny - now there was a spinner) then stop! Now that they have gone to a point total system though, I am quite serious that they should bring back the school figures. Enough with the "come from nowhere" Olympic gold medalists who go right back to nowhere once they win. OK, Tara Lipinski didn't go nowhere (she turned pro), but she retired from her pro skating career shortly after turning 19. She suffered with chronic hip problems throughout her pro career.

I know I'm dating myself, but I remember when they had to stay on the line in a figure 8 and do parts skating forward and other parts backward. I think that's what you mean by "school figures," also known as "compulsories." Now that was exciting! :rolleyes:

[Bostondevil]

I know I'm dating myself, but I remember when they had to stay on the line in a figure 8 and do parts skating forward and other parts backward. I think that's what you mean by "school figures," also known as "compulsories." Now that was exciting! :rolleyes:

Yes - those were the school figures. Note - I did not say they should televise the action - but you could put cameras overheard to show the figures as they draw them with their skates. Hey - people watch curling which when you think about it, is the same principle - making precise moves on the ice.

[Mal]

So, I'm going to tease you - do you really think you could do better than that - spend 3 years earning enough World Cup points to qualify without ever crashing? Yes. If I had the time and money and inclination to game the system the way she did, I could. Shame, boredom and some level of competitive drive would be the only things preventing me from doing so. I went out and skied for the first time all season over President's Weekend and took the kids down a halfpipe of similar height (shorter in length) and caught significantly more air than she did. There are, quite literally, hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of skiers on the planet who could ski a halfpipe better than that.


Maybe the rules should be changed, maybe not. But she followed the rules as they exist right now and she earned her spot.

I'll usually at least consider the "they were just following the rules as they're written" thing, and weigh it against how much the spirit of the rules/sport may be violated by leveraging a technicality or something, so long as it's immediately followed by "in order to win" or something similar. Exploiting a weakness in the rules in order to interlope at an event that's evolved to be a serious competition to determine the best of the best, is different than exploiting a weakness in the rules in order to give yourself a better chance to win.


Still - why does she get made fun of and the Tonga cross-country skier is applauded?

Fair question. Although I would note that he finished well enough in a qualifying race in Iceland so as to qualify. It wasn't that he finished last or only ahead of the DNF's at enough World Cup circuit races to accumulate some bare minimum of points. He was given a time to beat and he beat it. If Swaney had been told you have to score a 70 or better on a single halfpipe run to make it to Korea, I didn't see anything to indicate she could have.

Either way, there's a fair debate to be had about whether any of these vanity entries are worthwhile and a good or bad thing for the Olympics generally. I vote bad. Think of how insulting it is to the young American or Canadian woman who was 15th best in the world but couldn't go to Pyeongchang because their country's allotment was taken already, so they had to sit at home and watch Swaney. Similarly with the best Norwegian cross-country skier that didn't make his country's team. I recognize there are limitations to that thinking for an event that, while supposing to be a legitimate competition to find the world's best at certain activities, is also supposed to be a goodwill beacon and display of international harmony in balance with national pride. No one wants the Olympic cross-country skiing events to be comprised of 80% Scandinavians.


I was talking about Ms. Swaney with a friend and we agreed that if she were say, 54 years old, and took up freestyle skiing only to be able to say she competed in the Olympics and did the exact same run, she'd be a media darling. And three skiers had qualifying runs that scored below her worst score. She wasn't even in last place after the first run.

Maybe. I think people would be a lot more apt to get on board a 54 year-old Olympic participant if they'd actually been moderately competitive. It would still be a canary in a coalmine story for me about how the rules for qualifying in skiing halfpipe are in need of major overhaul. FWIW, three skiers had qualifying runs with lesser scores than Swaney because they were actually trying to do the very thing you're supposed to do on a halfpipe - entertain people by doing some tricks. They just happened to fall doing it. It's not a race to not finish last; you're supposed to try to finish on the podium.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

The older you get, the more falling hurts. That tends to lead to less falling as time goes on.

The half-pipes these folks go on are very large and very intimidating. Dropping in is scary, and making it up the other side is not as easy at it might look.

But it isn’t that hard. Seriously. Any skier who can handle any terrain a big mountain throws at them could learn to pull off that run pretty easily. It would be harder on a snowboard.

Congrats to her for figuring out how to pull of the bare minimum to participate in the Olympics. But she gamed the system. I saw tons of kids last week at Mammoth who would have done better.

I know zero about such things, but always assumed ski half pipe was more difficult than snowboard half pipe. Just, uh, because.

[Bostondevil]

The older you get, the more falling hurts. That tends to lead to less falling as time goes on.

The half-pipes these folks go on are very large and very intimidating. Dropping in is scary, and making it up the other side is not as easy at it might look.

But it isn’t that hard. Seriously. Any skier who can handle any terrain a big mountain throws at them could learn to pull off that run pretty easily. It would be harder on a snowboard.

Congrats to her for figuring out how to pull of the bare minimum to participate in the Olympics. But she gamed the system. I saw tons of kids last week at Mammoth who would have done better.

So did Zagitova and she won a gold medal. For a country that was banned from the Olympics for doping.

But I'm not comparing Swaney to the kids at Mammoth - I'm comparing her to the Tonganese cross country skier. I bet there were tons of kids at Mammoth who could have beaten him too. So what? If a country wants to send an athlete to compete for them and that athlete qualifies under Olympic rules, then that athlete qualifies under Olympic rules. She's not a medal contender - neither was he. She might not be all that great at what she does but she did put in the effort to qualify. I imagine she worked quite hard. Women's half pipe freestyle skiing is not a deep sport, she is, still today, ranked 34th in the world in terms of World Cup points. That's how she got to the Olympics. She didn't just show up without ever having competed before. Also - lots of people take advantage of dual citizenship to make it to the Olympics.

[cato]

I know zero about such things, but always assumed ski half pipe was more difficult than snowboard half pipe. Just, uh, because.

The only thing harder about skiing is looking good doing it. I wouldn’t hesitate to catch a bit of air at the top of a half-pipe on skis. No way would I try the same on a snowboard. Screw it up just a bit and you are falling backwards and head first a long way down.

[Bostondevil]

Fair question. Although I would note that he finished well enough in a qualifying race in Iceland so as to qualify. It wasn't that he finished last or only ahead of the DNF's at enough World Cup circuit races to accumulate some bare minimum of points. He was given a time to beat and he beat it. If Swaney had been told you have to score a 70 or better on a single halfpipe run to make it to Korea, I didn't see anything to indicate she could have.



I think 70 is probably too high a minimum. I saw several runs that didn't score that high even when the competitor didn't fall. Swaney went to way more than a single event to qualify, btw. It wasn't like she showed up to the bare minimum of events, swooping in at the last minute. It took her years. The Hungarian Ski Federation chose to have her compete for Hungary. The want to have a freestyle skier, she's their only choice, there you go.

You know the only reason we have all these freestyle skiing and snowboarding events at the Olympics anyway though, don't you? They started showing up after the US won only 2 golds and 6 total medals at the 1988 Winter Olympics. The Winter Olympics was in serious danger of losing American TV money, so, they started putting in events that Americans could win. It's not like the IOC is this great bastion of ethics and standards, no matter how much they might pretend to be. Heck, they had their hand forced with the doping evidence but they didn't really want to ban ALL the Russians? Where would the ladies' figure skating final be without them? One of the premiere events of the games? Who will watch the TV if the Russians aren't here?

Cassie Sharpe, the gold medalist in the event, when asked about Swaney said, "If you are going to put in the time and effort to be here, then you deserve to be here as much as I do." I agree with Ms. Sharpe.

[Ggallagher]

You've been on a half pipe? That sounds exciting! How steep are they? Was it a regulation half pipe? And I'm curious - how does one end up on a half pipe by mistake? I don't ski, well, I've water skied but I suspect skiing a half pipe is quite different. How experienced a skier do you think you would need to be to get down a half pipe without hurting yourself, even if you're there by mistake?

There was a neat article in the WSJ several days ago that talked about half pipe dimensions specifically. One of the points they were making is that the sport may be killing itself off because of how they've let the half pipes grow. They have become very expensive to build maintain, and the size (along with serious injuries and a death) seem to be causing more parents to try and keep their kids away.

At Nagano in 1998 the chutes were about 50 feet wide at the top of the lips and the drop from the lip down to the floor was 11.5 feet. The half pipe in South Korea was 70 feet wide at the top, and the drop from the lip to the floor was 22 feet.

The prediction was that there just aren't going to be many places where people can get practice on half pipes of the size that got used in South Korea.

[Bostondevil]

There was a neat article in the WSJ several days ago that talked about half pipe dimensions specifically. One of the points they were making is that the sport may be killing itself off because of how they've let the half pipes grow. They have become very expensive to build maintain, and the size (along with serious injuries and a death) seem to be causing more parents to try and keep their kids away.

At Nagano in 1998 the chutes were about 50 feet wide at the top of the lips and the drop from the lip down to the floor was 11.5 feet. The half pipe in South Korea was 70 feet wide at the top, and the drop from the lip to the floor was 22 feet.

The prediction was that there just aren't going to be many places where people can get practice on half pipes of the size that got used in South Korea.

Elizabeth Swaney is currently the 34th ranked half pipe freestyle skier in the world, regardless of what you think of her skills. QED.

[cato]

Elizabeth Swaney is currently the 34th ranked half pipe freestyle skier in the world, regardless of what you think of her skills. QED.

Where do you see that?

[Bostondevil]

Where do you see that?

Uhm in all the articles that described how she qualified for the Olympics. OK, she's ranked 34th is World Cup points. Aren't they the same thing?

[Mal]

Swaney went to way more than a single event to qualify, btw. It wasn't like she showed up to the bare minimum of events, swooping in at the last minute.

Yes, I know. I was just describing how her process of qualifying was different. She showed up at a number of event, did the bare minimum in each of them, and snagged a qualification in a sport where there's not nearly enough money or worldwide following to get a depth of high quality competition that would preclude someone like her from succeeding in what she did.


You know the only reason we have all these freestyle skiing and snowboarding events at the Olympics anyway though, don't you?

I'm acutely aware of this and still not much of a fan of the X Games takeover of what used to be a quaint little every four year gathering where the U.S. was not a dominant factor. I preferred those days. I'm not saying there aren't some contrivances there, but that doesn't mean there can't be a standard for minimum expectations of competitors.



Cassie Sharpe, the gold medalist in the event, when asked about Swaney said, "If you are going to put in the time and effort to be here, then you deserve to be here as much as I do." I agree with Ms. Sharpe.

That's very diplomatic of her, and I wouldn't expect someone at the Olympics to say otherwise. But that's no way to run an athletic competition. Ms. Sharpe knows full well there are hundreds of skiers who would destroy Swaney time and again, but don't have the time to put their lives on hold to travel around to random events trying to make an Olympics. They go to college and work jobs. Putting in the time and effort has to be combined with some actual talent at some point, right?

[Bostondevil]

That's very diplomatic of her, and I wouldn't expect someone at the Olympics to say otherwise. But that's no way to run an athletic competition. Ms. Sharpe knows full well there are hundreds of skiers who would destroy Swaney time and again, but don't have the time to put their lives on hold to travel around to random events trying to make an Olympics. They go to college and work jobs. Putting in the time and effort has to be combined with some actual talent at some point, right?

She never, ever fell. If she did she would lose the opportunity to amass World Cup points. Unlike the Olympics, when you fall in a World Cup event, you receive a DNF, you don't get a score and you don't score World Cup points. (My source for this information is the same articles that describe how she managed to earn her spot at the Olympics.) Now, many of you here have convinced me that you could indeed complete a half pipe run as difficult as hers once, but could you do it over and over again over the 3 years it took her to qualify without ever falling? That's talent. It's not going to get you a medal but it's talent. The vast majority of athletes who show up at the Olympics fail to win medals. Why should we let them compete? What's the point of participating if you aren't going to win? Again - why let the Tonganese guy compete? He had no chance of winning, he just came to march in the opening ceremonies without a shirt on. (OK - that's some actual talent.) You defended him but not her because he met some basic qualifications. She also met some basic qualifications. Her sport allowed her to compete. The Hungarian Ski Federation allowed her to compete. What I think is probably a shame is that they put her on TV. If we hadn't seen her run, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Do we have any videotape of the Tonganese guy skiing? Would we be ridiculing him if we actually got to see him ski? Again - I'm glad he got to participate, I think he should have been allowed to compete even though his only goal must have been not to finish last. (It's possible that he only managed not to finish last because the other skiers fell.)

There are hundreds of athletes out there who are would be Olympians but they don't become Olympians merely because they don't have time? Duh. Why do you think they talk all the time about how it takes dedication to make the Olympics? There might be hundreds of skiers out there who would be better than she is if they devoted the time to the sport - but other things in life are more important to them than making the Olympics. It was her dream to make the Olympics, she found a sport where she could conceivably get there, and she dedicated her life to making that dream come true. Your "hundreds of skiers" did not. Dedication, hard work, and just enough talent to get ranked 34th in the world? Sounds like an Olympian to me. Although I will concede that having a Hungarian grandmother helps.

[Acymetric]

She never, ever fell. If she did she would lose the opportunity to amass World Cup points. Unlike the Olympics, when you fall in a World Cup event, you receive a DNF, you don't get a score and you don't score World Cup points. (My source for this information is the same articles that describe how she managed to earn her spot at the Olympics.) Now, many of you here have convinced me that you could indeed complete a half pipe run as difficult as hers once, but could you do it over and over again over the 3 years it took her to qualify without ever falling? That's talent. It's not going to get you a medal but it's talent. The vast majority of athletes who show up at the Olympics fail to win medals. Why should we let them compete? What's the point of participating if you aren't going to win? Again - why let the Tonganese guy compete? He had no chance of winning, he just came to march in the opening ceremonies without a shirt on. (OK - that's some actual talent.) You defended him but not her because he met some basic qualifications. She also met some basic qualifications. Her sport allowed her to compete. The Hungarians Ski Federation allowed her to compete. What I think is probably a shame is that they put her on TV. If we hadn't seen her run, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Do we have any videotape of the Tonganese guy skiing? He might look just as ridiculous but he hasn't been set up for the ridicule. Again - I'm glad he got to participate, I think he should have been allowed to compete even though his only goal must have been not to finish last. (It's possible that he only managed not to finish last because the other skiers fell.)

There are hundreds of athletes out there who are would be Olympians but they don't become Olympians merely because they don't have time? Duh. Why do you think they talk all the time about how it takes dedication to make the Olympics? There might be hundreds of skiers out there who would be better than she is if they devoted the time to the sport - but other things in life are more important to them than making the Olympics. It was her dream to make the Olympics, she found a sport where she could conceivably get there, and she dedicated her life to making that dream come true. Your "hundreds of skiers" did not. Dedication, hard work, and just enough talent to get ranked 34th in the world? Sounds like an Olympian to me. Although I will concede that having a Hungarian grandmother helps.

Well it's not just time, it's time and money. Highly talented athletes get some (or all) of that money from sponsorships based on that talent. Where did she get hers? My take: she bought her way into the Olympics by "dedicating herself" to being a mediocre recreational skier that competed at a frequency most could not afford.

I'm also not sure dedicating yourself to doing the bare minimum so that you can achieve an accomplishment essentially on a technicality is admirable regardless of how it was financed.

[Bostondevil]

Well it's not just time, it's time and money. Highly talented athletes get some (or all) of that money from sponsorships based on that talent. Where did she get hers? My take: she bought her way into the Olympics by "dedicating herself" to being a mediocre recreational skier that competed at a frequency most could not afford.

Highly talented athletes? Ok - where did the 79th best cross country skier get his money?

This thought made me go look up the guy who finished 79th in the same race as Pita Taufatofua - the cross country skier from Tonga. (He only beat two people, btw, a guy from Mexico and a guy from Columbia, the other 3 he finished ahead of were DNFs and a disqualification.)

Ok - our 79th place finisher in the men's 15km cross country race was Mark Chanloung from Thailand. He and his sister Karen Chanloung are the only cross country skiers from Thailand. Both were born in Italy but hold dual citizenship with Thailand. How they got named Mark and Karen I have yet to determine. I picked that number at random but I hit on a fairly similar story. Cross country skiers with dual citizenship (recently claimed, btw, just in time to compete in the Olympics) who didn't have a prayer of making the team in the country where they were born. Sister Karen finished 82nd in the women's 10km race. They are supported by the Thai Ski and Snowboard Federation (yes, one exists) just like Ms. Swaney was supported by the Hungarian Ski Federation. I suspect they got some family support too.

You know, Prince Albert of Monaco competed in bobsled in every Olympics from 1988 to 2002. I think his best finish was 25th.

[Mal]

This is a fun discussion, Bostondevil, thank you for your perspective. We clearly have differing philosophies on what our preferred Olympian profile would be. My ideal would be somewhere between having 15% of the field in any given event be athletes who wouldn't be among the best couple hundred in the world at their sport and even on their best day have no chance of finishing in the top 2/3, and the homogeneity that might result from only allowing the true best of the best. My preferred criteria would probably exclude the Tongan skier, whose presence in Pyeongchang I haven't really been defending here. I do, however, perceive a meaningful difference in the criteria under which he qualified. I mean, he beat some people who are serious x-country skiers head to head. That's in a sport that, while not the NBA, has enough global following that more than a few dozen people make a legitimate living at it. Swaney found a rules failure in a sport where there's just not much competition.

Imagine a ski racer who just skied slowly and carefully around the gates in every race, being sure not to DNF. They would not accumulate enough points to become ranked 34th in the world. Because there are enough actual ski racers. Swaney's nowhere near the 34th best in the world at what she does, but structural issues and maximums on Olympic qualifications for the U.S., Canada, Australia and the more snowy European countries keep more young people from taking up halfpipe skiing as a serious undertaking.

Couple other random thoughts:

Yes, I could do that run several dozen times in a row without once falling. So could my 11-year-old son who skis maybe 8 days a season. I think you're perhaps not fully appreciating how incredibly basic what she was doing is. I don't know the equivalent to figure skating, an event you clearly know far more about than me, would be. Perhaps doing a routine in which one never jumps. Whatever it is, no one who skates would want to watch it, that's for sure.

That's the point, though. Swaney's literally doing the absolute minimum, making a mockery of the Olympic qualifying rules by doing so, and not really complying with the basic ethos of sport. She's not competing. She could undoubtedly do better, try a trick or two. She's not doing her best. I just can't respect someone who's going into the competition knowing that under no circumstances will they win that competition, because they're not attempting to win. Others may think there's little chance they win, but at least they're trying. I mean, what's the point of athletic pursuits, otherwise? Why would one even want to go to the Olympics? Isn't the main point of these sports for the athletes, to compete? And for the fans, to be entertained? The entire underlying point of all of these X Games at the Olympics events is to show off. It's a bunch of skateboarders going "Check this one out, dude!" and not caring if they bail 15 times in a row before they pull off the trick no one else can do. Go ahead, exploit the rules to get there, but at least TRY TO WIN when you do get there!

I believe you missed my point about the time commitment issue. You said "Why do you think they talk all the time about how it takes dedication to make the Olympics?" but that's a completely different point. Actual world class athletes talk about the time and dedication it takes to realize the immense potential their considerable talents provided them. Not having the time and dedication to leave a job, go to your grandparents native country and get them to support your quest for the Olympics by exploiting a loophole in the qualification rules. (Which rules should probably be changed, somehow).

Or, what Acymetric concluded far more succinctly.

[Bostondevil]

Imagine a ski racer who just skied slowly and carefully around the gates in every race, being sure not to DNF.

You mean like the North Korean dude who finished last in the Giant Slalom (of the competitors who finished the race)?

[Bostondevil]

There are lots of Olympians whose athletic talents do not seem to merit that title. But we're not ridiculing the Tonganese cross country skier (or the ones from Mexico and Ecudaor) because that's not in the Olympic spirit. Yes, it's a competition but merely participating has long been lauded as a significant part of the Olympic spirit. There are very many athletes, particularly at the Winter Olympics, who were not born in the countries they represent. Scratch the surface and you find lots of competitors who grew up in Canada or the US (or Italy) who compete for warmer weather countries because they can make those teams. But somehow, Ms. Swaney is to be ridiculed for doing it. I find the ridicule distasteful. If you want to argue that any sport where someone with merely basic skills can find themselves ranked 34th in the world is a junk sport that doesn't belong in the Olympics, I wouldn't argue against it, but as it is an Olympic sport and she is ranked 34th in the world - I refuse your analysis that she does not deserve her spot.

As to making a mockery of the Olympics, letting the OAR compete in the team events when the country was banned? That was a mockery. I understand letting the individuals who didn't do anything wrong compete, but there shouldn't have been a Russian hockey team. Nor should they have been allowed to compete in the team luge, team figure skating, cross country relays, biathalon relays - anything that wasn't an individual event. That's making a mockery of the Olympic spirit. Letting Ms. Swaney come finish last is supposed to be a feel good kind of story, something to give all of us weekend warriors the notion that we might have been Olympians if we'd just taken the time. Well, Ms. Swaney and curling.

[gus]

As to making a mockery of the Olympics, letting the OAR compete in the team events when the country was banned? That was a mockery.

We will have to agree to disagree on Ms Swaney, but I think we can all agree on this one.

[Mal]

You mean like the North Korean dude who finished last in the Giant Slalom (of the competitors who finished the race)?

Automatic qualification for host nations is a different subject entirely. It's not like that guy lives and trains in Switzerland and made it to the Olympics by skiing the way he does on the WC circuit.

[Mal]

Letting Ms. Swaney come finish last is supposed to be a feel good kind of story, something to give all of us weekend warriors the notion that we might have been Olympians if we'd just taken the time. Well, Ms. Swaney and curling.

I can see I'm not going to change your mind on this, which is fine, but other than the quote above, your last thoughts are generally side issues. I feel you're pushing further afield and accusing those criticizing Swaney of inconsistency when we're not talking about the things you think we're inconsistent on. I've given my thoughts on the Tongan skier two or three times now. You haven't really addressed the (IMO) significant difference in the way that he qualified and the way she did, despite both being within the rules as written. I'm certainly not hiding behind some Olympic Spirit shield to avoid discussing xc skiers from tropical climates. My preference, if it wasn't clear, would be that they not be there if they can't stay within a certain range of the medal contenders. But that wasn't the subject of discussion. Nor was whether certain events should or should not be in the Olympics. I've also only alluded once to the separate issue of ancestral homeland venue shopping, of which I'm not a fan generally, and I most certainly have not at any point suggested that it's OK for others while a grave concern re: Swaney. And the Russia issue is a complete strawman - no one's ever suggested it's not a mockery. It's not even part of the debate here.

The only debate is how we view someone, who hasn't shown that they couldn't be beaten by every skier on every high school ski team in America in their chosen event, making it to the Olympics by finding the time and resources, reading the fine print of qualification rules and managing to qualify by essentially acting against the basic nature of the event itself (take some risks to do cool tricks that make people say "wow"), and then doing the same thing in the Olympic competition. I'm voting for agree to disagree on that one. While I acknowledge the perspicacity and legality of it all, I don't find anything about it worthy of much respect, it's certainly not inspirational to me, and I feel it does the greater idea of "Sport" a disservice on balance. To each their own, though!

[DukieInKansas]

Automatic qualification for host nations is a different subject entirely. It's not like that guy lives and trains in Switzerland and made it to the Olympics by skiing the way he does on the WC circuit.

I would argue that point that he was representing the host nation but that is probably a discussion for another day or another board. ;) Perhaps he was representing the step-child nation.

[Bostondevil]

I can see I'm not going to change your mind on this, which is fine, but other than the quote above, your last thoughts are generally side issues. I feel you're pushing further afield and accusing those criticizing Swaney of inconsistency when we're not talking about the things you think we're inconsistent on. I've given my thoughts on the Tongan skier two or three times now. You haven't really addressed the (IMO) significant difference in the way that he qualified and the way she did, despite both being within the rules as written. I'm certainly not hiding behind some Olympic Spirit shield to avoid discussing xc skiers from tropical climates. My preference, if it wasn't clear, would be that they not be there if they can't stay within a certain range of the medal contenders. But that wasn't the subject of discussion. Nor was whether certain events should or should not be in the Olympics. I've also only alluded once to the separate issue of ancestral homeland venue shopping, of which I'm not a fan generally, and I most certainly have not at any point suggested that it's OK for others while a grave concern re: Swaney. And the Russia issue is a complete strawman - no one's ever suggested it's not a mockery. It's not even part of the debate here.

The only debate is how we view someone, who hasn't shown that they couldn't be beaten by every skier on every high school ski team in America in their chosen event, making it to the Olympics by finding the time and resources, reading the fine print of qualification rules and managing to qualify by essentially acting against the basic nature of the event itself (take some risks to do cool tricks that make people say "wow"), and then doing the same thing in the Olympic competition. I'm voting for agree to disagree on that one. While I acknowledge the perspicacity and legality of it all, I don't find anything about it worthy of much respect, it's certainly not inspirational to me, and I feel it does the greater idea of "Sport" a disservice on balance. To each their own, though!

Yes I have. You say they are significant differences. I say they are not. I can see I'm not going to change your mind on this either. Your opinion that they qualified in significantly different ways is merely your opinion, as is mine that they didn't.

Also - yes - we are debating how we view someone who hasn't shown that they couldn't be beaten by every skier on every high school ski team in America. Neither Mr. Taufotatua nor Ms. Swaney has shown that, one has been held up to ridicule, the other has not. I respect the effort both put into realizing their dreams. I will concede that given their natural talents as athletes, perhaps they should have had different dreams, but that's really not my place to decide. They each had a dream and they went for it, spending whatever time and resources they had at their disposal. We could debate the fairness of them having the resources when there are others who might have more natural athletic talent who do not, but that's the side issue you brought into the discussion. (Talking about this made me look up Mr. Taufotatua's Summer Olympic record. He was born and raised in Australia. He is 7 months older than Ms. Swaney. He tried for multiple cycles to qualify for the Olympics in his summer sport, taekwondo. He finally won a qualifying tournament in Feb. 2016 where there were 4 entrants in his weight class.) I think we probably also disagree on the greater idea of "sport". One of the reasons I remain a fan of the Olympic games despite the corruption and the incredible pressure to cheat is because of the inclusion of athletes like Mr. Taufotatua and Ms. Swaney. Both of them. As well all the athletes who finished last, regardless of the sport.

[gus]

Yes I have. You say they are significant differences. I say they are not. I can see I'm not going to change your mind on this either. Your opinion that they qualified in significantly different ways is merely your opinion, as is mine that they didn't.

Also - yes - we are debating how we view someone who hasn't shown that they couldn't be beaten by every skier on every high school ski team in America. Neither Mr. Taufotatua nor Ms. Swaney has shown that, one has been held up to ridicule, the other has not. I respect the effort both put into realizing their dreams. I will concede that given their natural talents as athletes, perhaps they should have had different dreams, but that's really not my place to decide. They each had a dream and they went for it, spending whatever time and resources they had at their disposal. We could debate the fairness of them having the resources when there are others who might have more natural athletic talent who do not, but that's the side issue you brought into the discussion. (Talking about this made me look up Mr. Taufotatua's Summer Olympic record. He was born and raised in Australia. He is 7 months older than Ms. Swaney. He tried for multiple cycles to qualify for the Olympics in his summer sport, taekwondo. He finally won a qualifying tournament in Feb. 2016 where there were 4 entrants in his weight class.) I think we probably also disagree on the greater idea of "sport". One of the reasons I remain a fan of the Olympic games despite the corruption and the incredible pressure to cheat is because of the inclusion of athletes like Mr. Taufotatua and Ms. Swaney. Both of them. As well all the athletes who finished last, regardless of the sport.

They both finished towards (at) the bottom. That's really the only thing similar in their two stories.

Pita Taufatofua actually skied his race in the spirit of that sport. He skied the entire 15 kilometer race. Also, he grew up in Tonga.

Swaney did an alley-oop, sure. But otherwise her run in the Olympics was a complete mockery of what the half pipe is supposed to be. She first tried to make the Venezuelan team. And then settled on the Hungarian team because she had two grandparents from there. But she has (I believe) lived her entire life in the US.

[Bostondevil]

They both finished towards (at) the bottom. That's really the only thing similar in their two stories.

Pita Taufatofua actually skied his race in the spirit of that sport. He skied the entire 15 kilometer race. Also, he grew up in Tonga.

Swaney did an alley-oop, sure. But otherwise her run in the Olympics was a complete mockery of what the half pipe is supposed to be. She first tried to make the Venezuelan team. And then settled on the Hungarian team because she had two grandparents from there. But she has (I believe) lived her entire life in the US.

As I stated above - I disagree with both you and Mal as to what amounts to a complete mockery of a sport, but we are both entitled to our differing opinions.

[Bostondevil]

So I talked with my sons to see if it was just me who was not upset about the freestyle halfpipe skier. Two didn't care in the slightest. The other two told me that she was playing what they call the meta game. They both play a lot of online multiplayer games. In this community, playing the meta game is pretty much frowned upon, according to them. They said that Italians skiing for Thailand are also playing the meta game. They claim that the North Korean who finished last in the Giant Slalom was not playing the meta game but that North Korea itself was. And the German luger who was given South Korean citizenship in order to compete where she finished in the top 10 - both athlete and country played the meta game. The Tonganese taekwondo/cross country skier played no meta games.

Now, reactions - one son was rather furious at Ms. Swaney for successfully playing the game but not at any of the other athletes. His distinction was that she wasn't even trying to compete and should not have even been allowed to enter World Cup competitions. The other said, "Don't blame the athlete, blame the sport." As my previous posts have made obvious, I'm firmly in the "Don't blame the athlete, blame the sport" camp. However, as to the notion that she bought her way into the Olympics, they firmly disagree with that criticism. There they uniformly agree with me that competitive skiing is inherently elitist and that nobody without significant resources behind them can afford to regularly compete, regardless of how good they are.

[cato]

So I talked with my sons to see if it was just me who was not upset about the freestyle halfpipe skier. Two didn't care in the slightest. The other two told me that she was playing what they call the meta game. They both play a lot of online multiplayer games. In this community, playing the meta game is pretty much frowned upon, according to them. They said that Italians skiing for Thailand are also playing the meta game. They claim that the North Korean who finished last in the Giant Slalom was not playing the meta game but that North Korea itself was. And the German luger who was given South Korean citizenship in order to compete where she finished in the top 10 - both athlete and country played the meta game. The Tonganese taekwondo/cross country skier played no meta games.

Now, reactions - one son was rather furious at Ms. Swaney for successfully playing the game but not at any of the other athletes. His distinction was that she wasn't even trying to compete and should not have even been allowed to enter World Cup competitions. The other said, "Don't blame the athlete, blame the sport." As my previous posts have made obvious, I'm firmly in the "Don't blame the athlete, blame the sport" camp. However, as to the notion that she bought her way into the Olympics, they firmly disagree with that criticism. There they uniformly agree with me that competitive skiing is inherently elitist and that nobody without significant resources behind them can afford to regularly compete, regardless of how good they are.


Speaking only for myself: I am not upset about anything. The skier’s run was embarrassing.

I’d say the same thing about the Tongan flag bearer going bare chested, but that would just be the envy talking.

[BigWayne]

Somebody is always looking to make a buck off the Olympics.
http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/775/swaney_r.jpg (https://twitter.com/BluePointBrewer/status/967094411720122370/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thrillist.com%2Fnews%2Fn ation%2Felizabeth-swaney-olympics-sponsorship-blue-point-brewing)

[Bostondevil]

OMG - the sweaters! I love this - https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/968873077357596673

[Bostondevil]

Speaking only for myself: I am not upset about anything. The skier’s run was embarrassing.

I’d say the same thing about the Tongan flag bearer going bare chested, but that would just be the envy talking.

Yeah - that wasn't embarassing. :)

[cato]

Yeah - that wasn't embarassing. :)

Finding common ground! It is the Olympic spirit.

[Bostondevil]

Finding common ground! It is the Olympic spirit.

And those Blue Point sweaters! Click that link. They are da bomb!

[JasonEvans]

The difference in all this stuff if the perception as to what it takes to win in their sport.

The Tongan skier or the Nigerian bobsled team or most of the other obscure folks who qualified using dubious methods and with no real shot at winning were largely in sports that measure the time it takes you to accomplish something. Their skills and athletic gifts do not allow them to complete the course in anywhere close to the time of the top athletes, but they are trying to win. They don't laugh as they intentionally ski backwards or anything like that. They just trudge ahead as fast as they can... much slower than the best.

In the case of Swaney, most of us watch her and say she was not trying to win. Her sport requires tricks and artistry and she did not even attempt any of that stuff. To me, that is why her run made folks angry. There was no illusion that she was even attempting the sport as everyone else. We don't care if you have no hope of winning, but giving it a try makes us root for you.

And I get that she could have hurt herself if she tried to do a legit trick. I know she did one small, minor, barely noticeable trick but it was 1/10th of what the other athletes do on just one portion of their run. She's simply not skilled enough to attempt a legit jumping run without practically killing herself. I get that... still, the result is that it looks like she is not trying and that is why folks resent her.

That's just my opinion. When I see the lousy bobsledders finishing several orders of magnitude away from every other team, I don't mind it. When I see her not even attempting to do a trick, I wonder, "what is she doing there?!?!"

-Jason "all that said, if I had the opportunity to go march in the opening parade and wear an Olympic uniform and all that other stuff, I'd take it in a heartbeat... I don't blame her for doing it. But that does not mean I have to like that she did" Evans

[jimmymax]

Obscure and dubious to be sure. Where are these sports that show up every four years coming from? It's like the superhero movie craze. My money says cross-country snowboarding is next. Then they'll be stoked to get rifles for snowboard biathlon. Seriously it seems some sports agonize over getting into the Olympics but there are 10 snowboarding golds in play. I love me some curling but can ultimate frisbee get some love?

[Bostondevil]

The difference in all this stuff if the perception as to what it takes to win in their sport.

The Tongan skier or the Nigerian bobsled team or most of the other obscure folks who qualified using dubious methods and with no real shot at winning were largely in sports that measure the time it takes you to accomplish something. Their skills and athletic gifts do not allow them to complete the course in anywhere close to the time of the top athletes, but they are trying to win. They don't laugh as they intentionally ski backwards or anything like that. They just trudge ahead as fast as they can... much slower than the best.

In the case of Swaney, most of us watch her and say she was not trying to win. Her sport requires tricks and artistry and she did not even attempt any of that stuff. To me, that is why her run made folks angry. There was no illusion that she was even attempting the sport as everyone else. We don't care if you have no hope of winning, but giving it a try makes us root for you.

And I get that she could have hurt herself if she tried to do a legit trick. I know she did one small, minor, barely noticeable trick but it was 1/10th of what the other athletes do on just one portion of their run. She's simply not skilled enough to attempt a legit jumping run without practically killing herself. I get that... still, the result is that it looks like she is not trying and that is why folks resent her.

That's just my opinion. When I see the lousy bobsledders finishing several orders of magnitude away from every other team, I don't mind it. When I see her not even attempting to do a trick, I wonder, "what is she doing there?!?!"

-Jason "all that said, if I had the opportunity to go march in the opening parade and wear an Olympic uniform and all that other stuff, I'd take it in a heartbeat... I don't blame her for doing it. But that does not mean I have to like that she did" Evans

Maybe. We don't actually know that. If you watched figure skating, Johnny Weir kept saying that it's better to rotate and fall than to do a lesser jump. Skiing the halfpipe? Not true. From what I have been able to determine, if you fall in World Cup events, you do not earn World Cup points, no matter where you finish in the event. Unlike the Olympics, you get a DNF if you fall, even if you get back up and complete the run. And even at the Olympics, skiers who fell scored lower than Ms. Swaney who did not fall. Blame the sport, not the athlete. We can all say, c'mon, it's the Olympics, you're supposed to try the most difficult tricks! But that is, again, our opinion on how an athlete should be competing. In a sport that at the lower levels of ability values not falling over difficulty, who are we to decide she should change things up at the Olympics?

[cato]

Obscure and dubious to be sure. Where are these sports that show up every four years coming from? It's like the superhero movie craze. My money says cross-country snowboarding is next. Then they'll be stoked to get rifles for snowboard biathlon. Seriously it seems some sports agonize over getting into the Olympics but there are 10 snowboarding golds in play. I love me some curling but can ultimate frisbee get some love?

Pounds mitts into snow, takes off snowboard and begins trudging through snow as skiers glide past.

[weezie]

How about a medal race for "Mothers Who End Up Dragging Their Children By Ski Poles Through The Snow To Their Expensive Lessons"

I used to be pretty good at that. And my son was a real load of a kid. My daughter was lighter but whinier.

[rasputin]

How about a medal race for "Mothers Who End Up Dragging Their Children By Ski Poles Through The Snow To Their Expensive Lessons"

I used to be pretty good at that. And my son was a real load of a kid. My daughter was lighter but whinier.

As usual, I can't spork Weezie.

[Bostondevil]

How about a medal race for "Mothers Who End Up Dragging Their Children By Ski Poles Through The Snow To Their Expensive Lessons"

I used to be pretty good at that. And my son was a real load of a kid. My daughter was lighter but whinier.

You would beat me. I offered to sign my kids up for expensive ski lessons but none of them ever wanted to take them. And since growing up in Durham did not lend itself to becoming a skier myself, I didn't push.

[weezie]

Looks like the gold for me then! Waves to crowd and proudly accepts.

Seems like millions of dollars went into this medal chase. They can both ski like dreams, yippee.