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View Full Version : MBB: Duke @ Georgia Tech (Sun. 2/11, 6 p.m., ESPN) Pre-Game and In-Game Thread



Billy Dat
02-09-2018, 04:10 PM
Let's turn the page....

Tech is 11-13, 4-7 in league. They are 3-2 at home with wins over Syracuse and (older games) ND and Miami. They got blown out by Louisville on the road this week and are 1-6 in their last 7. Coach Pastner has the distraction of being sued for sexual assault, an item making news this week.

"But unequivocally, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero truth to any of those disgusting, bogus allegations. It's disgusting," he said, before saying "zero" 11 more times.

Pastner also just fired assistant coach Darryl LaBarrie in the midst of an NCAA recruiting violation investigation.

Murphys Law dictates that the Yellow Jackets will therefore play the game of their lives against us.

We need a win....badly.

Billy Dat
02-09-2018, 04:11 PM
Can a mod please fix the date in the thread title to 2/11...sorry for the mistake

ipatent
02-09-2018, 04:11 PM
This is a must win game.

proelitedota
02-09-2018, 04:14 PM
Must win game. If the team doesn't regress we should win the game. If we lose it means that we regressed after showing improvement in the UNC game.

Troublemaker
02-09-2018, 04:31 PM
I would like to see Duke get back to ball-pressuring, keeping ball-handlers to one side in PNR (icing, essentially), and mixing in big-man drops in PNR. That's the combination we used frequently when we held 7 straight opponents under 1 point per possession. If we start to re-use that combination, we'll win and we'll magically get back to rising in kenpom D rank while detractors point out that GaTech is a bad offense while ignoring that kenpom adjusts for that, but that debate is preferable to the past two games in which we lost and our kenpom D rank sank :-).

On offense, if GaTech goes man (they often zone), I'd like to see more continuity on offense. If the first action gets snuffed out, continue into a different action. The postup should never be the first action. Move the post defender around through other actions before you post him.

rasputin
02-09-2018, 04:57 PM
I wasn't sure which thread to put this in, because there seems to be a slight amount of negativity around this board right now. My prescription is to watch this three-minute video. You might want to avert your eyes at about the 38-second mark (nausea alert).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOu6bCDiZm4

FerryFor50
02-09-2018, 04:58 PM
While I don't think any team should be overlooked, I'm glad GT is the next opponent and not Louisville.

Rich
02-09-2018, 05:02 PM
I would like to see Duke get back to ball-pressuring, keeping ball-handlers to one side in PNR (icing, essentially), and mixing in big-man drops in PNR. That's the combination we used frequently when we held 7 straight opponents under 1 point per possession. If we start to re-use that combination, we'll win and we'll magically get back to rising in kenpom D rank while detractors point out that GaTech is a bad offense while ignoring that kenpom adjusts for that, but that debate is preferable to the past two games in which we lost and our kenpom D rank sank :-).

On offense, if GaTech goes man (they often zone), I'd like to see more continuity on offense. If the first action gets snuffed out, continue into a different action. The postup should never be the first action. Move the post defender around through other actions before you post him.

You've said this in a number of posts, but I'm not astute enough to see if that's what we're actually doing. It seems to me that we bring the ball down the court and our bigs try to get post position as the first action without any prior actions. It just doesn't seem like there's a lot of screening action on offense to create mismatches the way other teams attack us. I have to assume it's not coaching, but execution.

CDu
02-09-2018, 05:03 PM
No, not literally a must-win game. But for the psyche of this team, it's as close to a must-win game as you are going to get in mid-February. Thankfully, it's a VERY winnable road game.

Georgia Tech is a lot better than the iterations of a few years back. They are not the doormats that rolled out during the Brian Gregory era. Josh Pastnor has brought in a bit of talent, and they are at times very competitive. But they are still a ways down from the height of the Paul Hewitt years. They are also a bit snakebitten with injuries.

The Jackets play a glacially slow pace. Not quite UVa slow, but still really slow. They are a solid defensive team but a pretty awful offensive team, with just a couple of scoring threats. They play a VERY short rotation, though that may be forced to expand against Duke. They block some shots and hold teams to a low FG%, and they don't foul much. But otherwise, they don't do anything else of note extremely well. On offense, they just don't have enough weapons to stand out in any one area. They are getting better, but are probably a year or two away.

Centers: Ben Lammers (6'10", 235lb senior) is the man in the middle. Lammers is having a bit of a down year after really stepping up last year. He rebounds well and blocks shots well, although he's down in both categories a bit this year. But he's one of those rare defensive players who is good at both blocking shots and getting defensive rebounds. He's also a solid offensive player, with a decent shooting touch. He rarely comes out of the game, averaging an astonishing 36+ mpg. Rarely gets in foul trouble (obviously). He'll be a tough matchup for Carter. Hopefully Carter can get Lammers in foul trouble, because they don't really have another option. Lammers played all 40 in their win over Syracuse, and all 45 (!) in the loss @BC. He has played 5 entire games this season, and I'd expect them to try to do the same against Duke if they can keep the pace down.

Forwards: Abdoulaye Gueye (6'9", 215lb junior from Senegal) is the starter at PF and the nominal backup for Lammers at C. Gueye is an athletic player who can block a shot and really crashes the offensive glass. He is not afraid to shoot, but he probably should be: a career 53.8% from the line and 16.7% from 3 (albeit only 12 attempts). Gueye is mostly an energy/hustle player, and the points he gets are generally of that nature. He's been notably effective in ACC play, averaging 8.3 ppg and 6.4 rebounds per game in conference play. But he's foul prone, as you might expect. He's had at least 4 fouls in 7 of their conference games so far. Behind Gueye are Evin Cole (6'9", 210lb freshman) and Moses Wright (6'9", 210lb freshman from Raleigh). Wright doesn't play much, and pretty much just offers effort, a little rebounding, and some shotblocking. Kind of a poor/young man's Gueye. Cole also plays rarely, and is a bit more of a pseudo-stretch 4.

Wings: The Jackets have a true talent in Josh Okogie (6'4", 215lb sophomore). Okogie can flat out score. He's a good 3pt shooter (41%). He's a good FT shooter (80%) and gets to the line often. He's a terrific athlete and can attack the rim. He is strong on drives. He is also a good rebounder. Okogie carries the load for the Jackets on offense, and can do a lot of damage. He has a chance to play in the NBA. Okogie's wing mate is Brandon Alston (6'5", 200lb junior transfer from Lehigh). Alston is a decent shooter in both the midrange and from 3, and is a solid role player for the Jackets. [On a sad note, his father passed away very recently] The other wing is Tadric Jackson (6'2", 205lb senior). Jackson is the sixth man, and he's a terrific athlete, who can be strong with the ball at times, but also plays a bit out of control at times. He's not a very good shooter, but he's tough and fearless, and his energy can occasionally ignite them. For whatever it is worth, Jackson is a lefty.

Guards: The Jackets have just the one PG, Jose Alvarado (6'0", 175lb freshman). Alvarado isn't the most athletic PG around, and he's undersized. But he's fearless, and he's a terrific shooter from all areas. He can and will hit the 3, and knows how to get to the line. He doesn't have Okogie's athleticism, but he just knows how to play.

We really need to put this team away. They aren't deep, they aren't THAT experienced. Lammers is an All-ACC big, Okogie is an All-ACC wing, Alvarado is potentially a future All-ACC PG, and Jackson is a solid sixth man. But aside from that, it's a VERY limited team. We this game to start to build some confidence back up. And I think we will get it done, hopefully quite comfortably.

Troublemaker
02-09-2018, 05:19 PM
You've said this in a number of posts, but I'm not astute enough to see if that's what we're actually doing. It seems to me that we bring the ball down the court and our bigs try to get post position as the first action without any prior actions. It just doesn't seem like there's a lot of screening action on offense to create mismatches the way other teams attack us. I have to assume it's not coaching, but execution.

Against UNC, we actually did a really good job not making the postup the first action. The problem in the second half was more about lack of continuity. In the first half, we ran the horns set as Bilas kept pointing out. The big man would set a high screen before rolling to the basket into a postup. We got great post position and easy entry passes out of this several times because it was not a stagnant postup; we moved the defender out to cover the ball screen before moving him inside with the roll. In the second half, though, this set stopped working (and we also ran it poorly a few times). We got predictable with it, and UNC made an adjustment and was able to cover the roller without giving up an easy post entry. This is where "continuity" comes in. Instead of continuing into another action to set up another postup (or maybe to free a guard), our big men stayed there and tried to postup into a crowded lane. As CDu pointed out, the weakside help took away the lob, and it was just too tough to make the entry.

First-action postups were more a problem against SJU and some previous opponents. Still, when UNC was able to stop the second action postup, we needed to move into another action. There is enough time in a 30-second shotclock to do this.

jv001
02-09-2018, 06:59 PM
Against UNC, we actually did a really good job not making the postup the first action. The problem in the second half was more about lack of continuity. In the first half, we ran the horns set as Bilas kept pointing out. The big man would set a high screen before rolling to the basket into a postup. We got great post position and easy entry passes out of this several times because it was not a stagnant postup; we moved the defender out to cover the ball screen before moving him inside with the roll. In the second half, though, this set stopped working (and we also ran it poorly a few times). We got predictable with it, and UNC made an adjustment and was able to cover the roller without giving up an easy post entry. This is where "continuity" comes in. Instead of continuing into another action to set up another postup (or maybe to free a guard), our big men stayed there and tried to postup into a crowded lane. As CDu pointed out, the weakside help took away the lob, and it was just too tough to make the entry.

First-action postups were more a problem against SJU and some previous opponents. Still, when UNC was able to stop the second action postup, we needed to move into another action. There is enough time in a 30-second shotclock to do this.

Troublemaker, is this you, Coach Capel? Some good information. Then is the problem, players not executing, coaching or both? I really hate to see the switching on EVERY defensive possession. I don't like to see Grayson guarding the opposing center. GoDuke!

Troublemaker
02-09-2018, 07:51 PM
Some good information. Then is the problem, players not executing, coaching or both?

Eh, it doesn't really matter. We fans probably focus too much on offensive issues simply because it's the easier side of the ball to understand.

Coach K was impressive offensively. After not running the horns set very much this season at all, we surprised UNC by running it almost exclusively in the 1st half and scored 49 points on them before they were able to adjust in the 2nd half. If we had guarded the 3 better in the first half or if the guards had been able to box out and defensive rebound in the second half, we win the game, and the first-half offensive outburst would've been one of the main reasons. We all know which side of the ball we have to work on.


I really hate to see the switching on EVERY defensive possession. I don't like to see Grayson guarding the opposing center.

We usually don't switch to that extent. This was like the road game at Wisconsin in the 2014-15 season. Because the opponent had a stretch-5 (Kaminsky then, Maye yesterday), we switched all ball screens to prevent the pick-n-pop. I'm not saying I liked the strategy, just explaining this was opponent-specific (and I think we'll play it differently in the rematch in Cameron). We usually don't switch 1 thru 5 on everything.

Bob Green
02-10-2018, 06:57 AM
Guards: The Jackets have just the one PG, Jose Alvarado (6'0", 175lb freshman). Alvarado isn't the most athletic PG around, and he's undersized. But he's fearless, and he's a terrific shooter from all areas. He can and will hit the 3, and knows how to get to the line. He doesn't have Okogie's athleticism, but he just knows how to play.



I've watched GT a couple of times this year and Alvarado stands out as a feisty player. I'll go as far as saying it appears he has a bit of an attitude.

godins
02-10-2018, 08:31 PM
Slipped to the second page. We've got a game tomorrow, folks! A win tomorrow would put us back in the driver's seat for the number two seed in the ACCT (with a big game against Clemson next week to pull us even in the loss column).

ncexnyc
02-10-2018, 08:39 PM
I've watched GT a couple of times this year and Alvarado stands out as a feisty player. I'll go as far as saying it appears he has a bit of an attitude.

Exactly what you'd expect from an undersized NYC PG:D

CDu
02-10-2018, 08:55 PM
I've watched GT a couple of times this year and Alvarado stands out as a feisty player. I'll go as far as saying it appears he has a bit of an attitude.

He certainly plays with a chip on his shoulder.

gofurman
02-10-2018, 09:04 PM
While I don't think any team should be overlooked, I'm glad GT is the next opponent and not Louisville.

Gt could have beaten clemson at tech. All road games are tough. !!!

BandAlum83
02-10-2018, 11:40 PM
Go Duke!!!


I'll be at the game with Mrs BandAlum83. Any other DBR regulars going to be there? I'd love to meet!

gofurman
02-10-2018, 11:48 PM
Gt could have beaten clemson at tech. All road games are tough. !!!

No jinx

duketaylor
02-11-2018, 01:11 AM
but I'll be paying attention to what our defense is doing a lot, win or lose. That, and can Grayson come out of his scoring funk and Bagley returning to his dominant self.

A win would b nice, too. A dominating win would b a slight sigh of relief. GO DUKE!!!

JimBD
02-11-2018, 08:02 AM
Duke often plays one of its worse games of the year at GA Tech. Hope that is not the case this year.

freshmanjs
02-11-2018, 08:26 AM
Duke often plays one of its worse games of the year at GA Tech. Hope that is not the case this year.

Really? When has this happened? Not recently.

arnie
02-11-2018, 08:37 AM
Duke often plays one of its worse games of the year at GA Tech. Hope that is not the case this year.

GaT site says we’ve won 34 out if last 37 against jackets. I’d say we’ve not had too much trouble in past 20 years.

ndkjr70
02-11-2018, 10:58 AM
Anyone else surprised at the Duke (+1) line here? Historically we’ve had our way with Georgia Tech. On this 3 game losing streak, two were against ranked opponents and one was on the road against a team that just beat Villanova. This is still likely a top-15 Duke team on our hands.

Rich
02-11-2018, 11:04 AM
Anyone else surprised at the Duke (+1) line here? Historically we’ve had our way with Georgia Tech. On this 3 game losing streak, two were against ranked opponents and one was on the road against a team that just beat Villanova. This is still likely a top-15 Duke team on our hands.

The line is Duke -10, not +1

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-11-2018, 11:18 AM
The line is Duke -10, not +1

Well, that explains that.

hallcity
02-11-2018, 11:25 AM
Bagley is out with a mild knee sprain. Happened in 1st half at UNC. That explains his play in the 2d half.

kmspeaks
02-11-2018, 11:25 AM
Bagley to be held out as precaution for a knee injury. (https://twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/962722864792264704)

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-11-2018, 11:32 AM
Eep...

JBDuke
02-11-2018, 11:35 AM
Bagley to be held out as precaution for a knee injury. (https://twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/962722864792264704)

Well, that changes things. It will be interesting to see how the team responds. I'm hoping that Carter will see more action and be a first option on offense, rather than a second or third. After several good games, I thought his play against the Cheats was a regression. Also, it will be interesting to see who starts for Marvin. Bolden seems most likely, based on recent substitution patterns, but I like Marques more as a sub for Wendell rather than having them both in the game together. Might be fun to see AOC start and giving Duke more of a 1-in, 4-out look like we've had so often in the past.

Sure hope Marvin is okay and heals rapidly.

CameronDuke
02-11-2018, 11:36 AM
NEWS: As a precautionary measure, Marvin Bagley III will not play tonight at Georgia Tech with a mild knee sprain. The injury was sustained in the first half on Thursday at North Carolina.

Time for Grayson to step up and shoulder some of the scoring load tonight. Also, time for Bolden and DeLaurier to give Duke some quality minutes in the post while Bagley is out. I'd say Duke starts Bolden in Bagley's place. Maybe Coach K starts O'Connell and goes with a 4-1 look. I think O'Connell is from around the metro Atlanta area so he will likely be geared up and ready to go tonight playing in front of friends and family. Carter is from Atlanta too so he will be ready to go. Duke should still be able to beat Georgia Tech without Bagley tonight but I hope Duke has Bagley back Wednesday night when Duke hosts Virginia Tech. Get well soon Bags!

ndkjr70
02-11-2018, 11:39 AM
The line is Duke -10, not +1

That’s what I get for taking ESPN for gospel.

moonpie23
02-11-2018, 11:54 AM
time to step up.

let’s see if there’s any major move.

BigZ
02-11-2018, 11:59 AM
Spread now -8 w Marvin out

BigZ
02-11-2018, 12:01 PM
I'd like GoldwireO'Conell Trent Carter and Boldento be the starting lineup

mgtr
02-11-2018, 12:30 PM
I just don't see putting Bolden on the floor along with Carter. In prior years, we have gone with one big - shouldn't be a problem. I would start O'Connell or White at the four (maybe DeLaurier, but he fouls a lot).

fuse
02-11-2018, 01:33 PM
DeLaurier or Jack White as alternate starter?

I see Bolden subbing for Carter, who I hope takes this opportunity to be absolutely dominant.

devildeac
02-11-2018, 02:01 PM
Bagley is out with a mild knee sprain. Happened in 1st half at UNC. That explains his play in the 2d half.

It's over.

Gimme the keys, I'll crank the engine on the vigil.

:rolleyes:

Troublemaker
02-11-2018, 02:19 PM
Spread now -8 w Marvin out

I wonder if they're moving it the wrong way. In 2015, Jahlil missed the Clemson game and the spread shrunk, but Duke proceeded to blow out Clemson. That either spawned or was the culmination of the Okafor Theory, I forget which.

Maybe we'll have a Bagley Theory after tonight.

Ian
02-11-2018, 02:29 PM
I wonder if they're moving it the wrong way. In 2015, Jahlil missed the Clemson game and the spread shrunk, but Duke proceeded to blow out Clemson. That either spawned or was the culmination of the Okafor Theory, I forget which.

Maybe we'll have a Bagley Theory after tonight.

I am not aware of any advanced metrics that shows Duke to be a better team with Bagley off the floor, so I dubious of any "Bagley Theory". Duval Theory, however, is something I could buy into...

subzero02
02-11-2018, 02:32 PM
Anyone else surprised at the Duke (+1) line here? Historically we’ve had our way with Georgia Tech. On this 3 game losing streak, two were against ranked opponents and one was on the road against a team that just beat Villanova. This is still likely a top-15 Duke team on our hands.

please provide a link to this spread so I can bet $1 million on Duke

OZZIE4DUKE
02-11-2018, 02:38 PM
Time for Grayson to step up and become that Michigan State version we know and love! LGD GTHc !

Bob Green
02-11-2018, 03:13 PM
I hope to see Duke play the more traditional 4 out 1 in set with Bolden coming in off the bench to spell Carter. Who starts O'Connell or White? I'd go with White as O'Connell struggles on defense.

DukieInBrasil
02-11-2018, 03:18 PM
I hope to see Duke play the more traditional 4 out 1 in set with Bolden coming in off the bench to spell Carter. Who starts O'Connell or White? I'd go with White as O'Connell struggles on defense.

Yeah, i am not hoping for Bolden to start alongside Carter. Play small, and see how well the team responds. We got destroyed by small ball vs UNC, and all of our losses have involved the opposing perimeter absolutely shredding one of our bigs in PnR or just driving.
Jack White or DeLaurier can start alongside Carter, with Bolden as Carter's sub.

CDu
02-11-2018, 03:40 PM
I hope to see Duke play the more traditional 4 out 1 in set with Bolden coming in off the bench to spell Carter. Who starts O'Connell or White? I'd go with White as O'Connell struggles on defense.

I love the 4-out strategy normally. But today I don’t just because it isn’t what we will do come tourney time.

gocanes0506
02-11-2018, 03:49 PM
Going to my first regular season game! Excited

HereBeforeCoachK
02-11-2018, 04:09 PM
I would like to see Duke get back to ball-pressuring, keeping ball-handlers to one side in PNR (icing, essentially), and mixing in big-man drops in PNR. That's the combination we used frequently when we held 7 straight opponents under 1 point per possession. If we start to re-use that combination, we'll win and we'll magically get back to rising in kenpom D rank while detractors point out that GaTech is a bad offense while ignoring that kenpom adjusts for that, but that debate is preferable to the past two games in which we lost and our kenpom D rank sank :-).
.

I see it a bit different....I think this is a zone team. It is a tall team, a very talented offensive team, but not a great team staying in front of the dribble drive. I believe they are expending a lot of time, a lot of physical and mental energy, in becoming a good man to man D team. They'll never get there. It's not who they are.

In the meantime, this energy will take away from what should be the nations best offensive team, that plays a very respectable tall and long zone, that can ride that formula deep into the NCAAs. They'll never go deep playing man. They won't get out of the first weekend likely.

HereBeforeCoachK
02-11-2018, 04:13 PM
I love the 4-out strategy normally. But today I don’t just because it isn’t what we will do come tourney time.

THIS^^^^^ on the money....there is no way we only go with one big in the NCAAs....no reason to even flirt with it today. Give Bolden, Javin and Vrank more time....

Would really be nice to see enough minutes from O'Connell, Marques, Javin and Jack down the stretch - for them to be ready for a key moment in the NCAAs. Take Jack's 5 and 7 against Notre Dame. On the surface, it looks meaningless as Duke won by 22 or whatever...but when Jack did all that, the game was in doubt. That's exactly the kind of stretch they might face in the NCAAs......

szstark
02-11-2018, 04:14 PM
I hope to see Duke play the more traditional 4 out 1 in set with Bolden coming in off the bench to spell Carter. Who starts O'Connell or White? I'd go with White as O'Connell struggles on defense.

I think O’Connell actually excels in the zone. He seems to be the most active guy we put at the top of the key. His m2m is still a work in progress. 4 out 1 in should also open up more driving lanes for the Grayson we used to know. It will be interesting to see what K does.

HereBeforeCoachK
02-11-2018, 04:19 PM
Time for Grayson to step up and become that Michigan State version we know and love! LGD GTHc !

Amen, preach it. BTW, they played zone that entire game.....Bags was out almost the entire game.....and Trayvon was outstanding setting up Grayson.... and that's still their best game. Roll tape on it, and do just that.....(well, don't have Javin accidentally poke Bags, but other than that...play just like that....)

OZ
02-11-2018, 04:50 PM
Amen, preach it. BTW, they played zone that entire game...Bags was out almost the entire game...and Trayvon was outstanding setting up Grayson... and that's still their best game. Roll tape on it, and do just that...(well, don't have Javin accidentally poke Bags, but other than that...play just like that...)

Which was part of the reason Grayson was looking for his shot more. Have we focused a bit too much on going inside, thus changing Grayson's role?

HereBeforeCoachK
02-11-2018, 05:18 PM
Which was part of the reason Grayson was looking for his shot more. Have we focused a bit too much on going inside, thus changing Grayson's role?

It's possible. I also think Grayson's been nursing a few hidden injuries, and I think Treyvon's turnovers have hurt the team and I think the team is a little surprised he's struggled so much.

There is no doubt, Grayson scoring from the 3 line and getting a big time dunk or two is when Duke is at its best. I predicted that's what we'd see his soph season, and we did. Then the disaster of the junior year...and I thought the senior year would be like the soph year....and it was that way against Michigan State....

Wish we'd see it again...

arnie
02-11-2018, 05:24 PM
Yeah, i am not hoping for Bolden to start alongside Carter. Play small, and see how well the team responds. We got destroyed by small ball vs UNC, and all of our losses have involved the opposing perimeter absolutely shredding one of our bigs in PnR or just driving.
Jack White or DeLaurier can start alongside Carter, with Bolden as Carter's sub.

Which big can handle Lammers? He’s a senior and due for a huge game.

gocanes0506
02-11-2018, 05:30 PM
I’d expect Carter to have a HUGE game. Family are here in force with MBIII out. In the neighborhood of a 25-15 game.

Troublemaker
02-11-2018, 05:30 PM
I am not aware of any advanced metrics that shows Duke to be a better team with Bagley off the floor, so I dubious of any "Bagley Theory". Duval Theory, however, is something I could buy into...

Well, Marvin plays so many minutes, I doubt there's even a meaningful, coherent data set of his OFF minutes to be analyzed. There was the MSU game (in which we won, forced turnovers, and Grayson played great in), but that's it.

In any case, if Coach K mostly goes with Bolden and Carter playing together, there won't be any Bagley Theory potential.


I love the 4-out strategy normally. But today I don’t just because it isn’t what we will do come tourney time.

That's only set in stone for the (normal) starters, though. If, for whatever reason, Duke is very effective in 4-out today, Coach K might start subbing in 4-out lineups every now and then going forward. I've always thought it to be ideal if a team is versatile enough to play both big and small. We'll always mostly play big this season, but the ability to call upon small when needed would be nice. Today's a chance to see if we have the personnel for that. Maybe we don't, though.


I see it a bit different...I think this is a zone team. It is a tall team, a very talented offensive team, but not a great team staying in front of the dribble drive. I believe they are expending a lot of time, a lot of physical and mental energy, in becoming a good man to man D team. They'll never get there. It's not who they are.

In the meantime, this energy will take away from what should be the nations best offensive team, that plays a very respectable tall and long zone, that can ride that formula deep into the NCAAs. They'll never go deep playing man. They won't get out of the first weekend likely.

We don't disagree too much. I've definitely written elsewhere that if Duke went zone exclusively, it would probably lead to good defense.

But realistically, Coach K's going to play m2m. And so I focused on the manner in which he might play m2m in this pregame thread.


Which was part of the reason Grayson was looking for his shot more. Have we focused a bit too much on going inside, thus changing Grayson's role?

Almost certainly. As many people have already pointed out, we should probably run some more plays for Grayson. And so, let's take away a few postups and do so...

Neals384
02-11-2018, 05:35 PM
I see it a bit different...I think this is a zone team. It is a tall team, a very talented offensive team, but not a great team staying in front of the dribble drive. I believe they are expending a lot of time, a lot of physical and mental energy, in becoming a good man to man D team. They'll never get there. It's not who they are.

In the meantime, this energy will take away from what should be the nations best offensive team, that plays a very respectable tall and long zone, that can ride that formula deep into the NCAAs. They'll never go deep playing man. They won't get out of the first weekend likely.

thanks, HereBefore. I've made this point several times and always get slammed for it.

Troublemaker
02-11-2018, 05:38 PM
Speaking of zone, GaTech very often plays a 1-3-1-ish zone that morphs around and confuses opponents.

It might behoove us to play 4-out and get some shooters on the court against this zone.

HereBeforeCoachK
02-11-2018, 05:42 PM
thanks, HereBefore. I've made this point several times and always get slammed for it.

For what it's worth....and I think it's certainly worth listening to....Jay Williams has made this point repeatedly on ESPN and elsewhere, in the last few weeks.

It's a very fine line between adhering to the principles that made your program what it is...and being stubborn in the face of reality. I don't pretend to know where this line is, but i think we should examine where this line is in the man to man versus zone argument with Duke.

I may be new to this forum, but while I was too young to watch the glory years of Vic Bubas, I've watched this stuff through Neil McGeachy, Bucky Waters, Bill Foster and the early years of K......in other words, I've taken my lumps when all my friends were fans of national powers NC State and Carolina. IOW no one could possibly appreciate K (and Cutcliffe for that matter) more than I, because I've died so many times with the Devils before they came.

That said, even the greats have blind spots...and I respectfully submit this man v zone is one of those.

-jk
02-11-2018, 05:46 PM
DBR Chat (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox) is open!

If it gets a bit slow, refresh the page. If you're on a mobile device, you'll need to select "Blue" at the bottom.

As always - please follow the DBR Posting Guidelines.

Let's Go Duke!

-jk

fuse
02-11-2018, 05:47 PM
O’Connell and Bolden get the start with Allen, Trent, Carter.

Troublemaker
02-11-2018, 05:49 PM
Trevon was benched.

O'Connell and Bolden into the starting lineup.

riverside6
02-11-2018, 05:50 PM
Live tempo-based stats for Duke/Georgia Tech, starters posted ...

https://www.scacchoops.com/duke-at-georgia-tech-basketball-live-stats-02112018

HereBeforeCoachK
02-11-2018, 05:56 PM
Trevon was benched.

O'Connell and Bolden into the starting lineup.

Interesting...O'Connell and Bolden were maybe the two best players against the Heels.....

curtis325
02-11-2018, 05:58 PM
Trevon was benched.

O'Connell and Bolden into the starting lineup.

Twitter-related?

wavedukefan70s
02-11-2018, 06:23 PM
BOLDEN for 12 and 9 .

subzero02
02-11-2018, 06:24 PM
Twitter-related?

I'd say his play against UNC relative to Alex's had more to do with it...

flyingdutchdevil
02-11-2018, 06:25 PM
I'd say his play against UNC relative to Alex's had more to do with it...

Agreed. But twitter didn’t help.

I hope Tre uses this as a fantastic learning experience. We need him.

WHOneedsSOX
02-11-2018, 06:27 PM
Damn Bolden is playing well. Great to see him finally get some success. Hopefully he can be more consistent.

WHOneedsSOX
02-11-2018, 06:32 PM
Oof bad injury. Hopefully he's ok.

gocanes0506
02-11-2018, 06:34 PM
Wife said broken arm with blood on his shirt and jersey, opposite side of where i am sitting

chrishoke
02-11-2018, 06:36 PM
Grayson playing so well - scoring and setting others up.

subzero02
02-11-2018, 06:48 PM
It's all about that defense... one and done for the jackets

wavedukefan70s
02-11-2018, 06:49 PM
I like this D we are playing.

jipops
02-11-2018, 06:53 PM
Love the level of effort we've been seeing. I got worried after we went up double figures because that is typically when we check out. But that hasn't taken place.

jipops
02-11-2018, 06:58 PM
Twitter-related?

I'm betting it mostly is. K pays attention to the social media stuff. Trevon showed an example of putting self before team after having endured a loss. With the team struggling the timing was even worse. He had to be benched.

fuse
02-11-2018, 07:00 PM
There has been a lot of talk over the season on how terrible our defense is.
<whispers>
Could a key injury be revealing a significant contributing factor?

NYBri
02-11-2018, 07:01 PM
Like the shakeup. Ball moving more. There is a team in there somewhere.

-bdbd
02-11-2018, 07:02 PM
Great half of B.B. We haven’t played with this level of intensity and D focus for 20 straight minutes in weeks!

subzero02
02-11-2018, 07:04 PM
There has been a lot of talk over the season on how terrible our defense is.
<whispers>
Could a key injury be revealing a significant contributing factor?

Bagley has been holding us back for years...

jipops
02-11-2018, 07:06 PM
There has been a lot of talk over the season on how terrible our defense is.
<whispers>
Could a key injury be revealing a significant contributing factor?

I don't think there is a correlation here. I do think it helps Grayson in that he is more of a focal point.

CDu
02-11-2018, 07:07 PM
I'm betting it mostly is. K pays attention to the social media stuff. Trevon showed an example of putting self before team after having endured a loss. With the team struggling the timing was even worse. He had to be benched.

Yeah I think you are right, which is why he didn’t start. But they also have moved Duval off ball to have Allen run point. That was probably performance-related.

DU82
02-11-2018, 07:13 PM
Darn, another slow start to begin the second half.

subzero02
02-11-2018, 07:14 PM
The fact that Alex started the 2nd half too makes me think that rewarding O'Connell's good play relative to Duval's was more significant than a twitter related punishment... I could be completely wrong. I like our energy and I like Carter's dunks.

jipops
02-11-2018, 07:14 PM
Darn, another slow start to begin the second half.

Been a long time, been a long time, been a longy longy longy longy time...since we started a 2nd half like this.

ipatent
02-11-2018, 07:16 PM
I don't think there is a correlation here. I do think it helps Grayson in that he is more of a focal point.

It also means that Carter is guarding a big instead of a quicker player.

subzero02
02-11-2018, 07:18 PM
Javin needs to put a little less air on those top of the key entry passes...

jipops
02-11-2018, 07:25 PM
It also means that Carter is guarding a big instead of a quicker player.

I don't think that was the case starting alongside Bolden. With Javin, sure. But that's the same defensive scenario alongside Bagley.

jipops
02-11-2018, 07:37 PM
I really don't like our over the top passes lately. They're forced when they aren't really there.

subzero02
02-11-2018, 07:39 PM
I really don't like our over the top passes lately. They're forced when they aren't really there.

They're there... the execution is not. Urine poor far too often.

jipops
02-11-2018, 07:40 PM
Gtech already nearly matching their scoring total from the 1st half. We'll come out ok here, but not liking that we're reverting back to the season norm.

And offensively we're awful right now

scottdude8
02-11-2018, 07:43 PM
Can anyone say specifically what the “social media situation” people are referring to was with regards to Duval, or is it being spoken about discretely because of board rules? I’m not a twitter guy so I have no idea what’s going on here, haha

WHOneedsSOX
02-11-2018, 07:45 PM
Duke isn't going to blow a 25 point lead are they...?

jipops
02-11-2018, 07:46 PM
Gtech already nearly matching their scoring total from the 1st half. We'll come out ok here, but not liking that we're reverting back to the season norm.

And offensively we're awful right now

Actually we may not be ok here. We clearly checked out, per usual.

Rich
02-11-2018, 07:47 PM
Can anyone say specifically what the “social media situation” people are referring to was with regards to Duval, or is it being spoken about discretely because of board rules? I’m not a twitter guy so I have no idea what’s going on here, haha

He retweeted a tweet of his monstrous dunk against UNC just after the game ended. Many here thought it was in poor taste.

chrishoke
02-11-2018, 07:47 PM
just lol at this duke team.

gotoguy
02-11-2018, 07:47 PM
At the game Crowd into it now. Need to stop Jackson from penetrating

curtis325
02-11-2018, 07:48 PM
Duke isn't going to blow a 25 point lead are they...?

It's kinda lookin' that way.

HereBeforeCoachK
02-11-2018, 07:48 PM
Actually we may not be ok here. We clearly checked out, per usual.

Disgusting. Outscored 15-2 by a Middle School team, with injuries, and a coach in trouble. Just like the Carolina game, never finishing rebounds, standing around. I'm beginning to think this team is just missing something in character and mental toughness.

scottdude8
02-11-2018, 07:50 PM
Runs always happen on the road, guys. It’s still a 15 point game with 6 to go. Seems like there are some of us who are WAY to quick to press the panic button.

subzero02
02-11-2018, 07:51 PM
Disgusting. Outscored 15-2 by a Middle School team, with injuries, and a coach in trouble. Just like the Carolina game, never finishing rebounds, standing around. I'm beginning to think this team is just missing something in character and mental toughness.

collective ADD...

wavedukefan70s
02-11-2018, 07:52 PM
Smh....

HereBeforeCoachK
02-11-2018, 07:57 PM
Runs always happen on the road, guys. It’s still a 15 point game with 6 to go. Seems like there are some of us who are WAY to quick to press the panic button.

I think the panic is about the ceiling for this team, which is looking lower and lower. They'll win this game. Runs do happen. But the standing around, disorganized, being outhustled? We've seen this movie a lot lately, and this is not a movie that will run very deep into March.

jwillfan
02-11-2018, 07:58 PM
Hard to know what to say without crossing a line

rsvman
02-11-2018, 07:58 PM
We were a bit unlucky not to score on that last possession. Duval's sit should've gone, and Bolden's tip, too

jwillfan
02-11-2018, 07:59 PM
"Duke is talented" soooo tired of hearing that.

jwillfan
02-11-2018, 08:02 PM
This is embarrassing...what they are allowing to let GT do.

rsvman
02-11-2018, 08:03 PM
I'm actually pretty happy.
A road win without Bagley works for me.

HereBeforeCoachK
02-11-2018, 08:03 PM
is it just me....or have Wendell and Javin both been very weak with their hands while rebounding?

duke4ever19
02-11-2018, 08:03 PM
Give Grayson the keys and don't look back.

Bluedevil114
02-11-2018, 08:04 PM
Does Javin know how to box out? These rebounds are because he is jumping too soon and not finding a man to box out. Embarrassing.

proelitedota
02-11-2018, 08:05 PM
Disgusting. Outscored 15-2 by a Middle School team, with injuries, and a coach in trouble. Just like the Carolina game, never finishing rebounds, standing around. I'm beginning to think this team is just missing something in character and mental toughness.

With the blessing of the refs. We were getting hacked like crazy in the inside.

jwillfan
02-11-2018, 08:05 PM
I'm actually pretty happy.
A road win without Bagley works for me.

Really? After 26 point lead? This team cannot put anyone away.

WHOneedsSOX
02-11-2018, 08:06 PM
Did this announcer just say Peyton Manning is better than Tom Brady??

willywoody
02-11-2018, 08:07 PM
Give Grayson the keys and don't look back.

I agree. We have too much talent this year to allow Austin Rivers to derail things.

jwillfan
02-11-2018, 08:08 PM
I agree. We have too much talent this year to allow Austin Rivers to derail things.

What does that even mean?

kmspeaks
02-11-2018, 08:09 PM
collective ADD...

In all fairness I started checking twitter and only halfway paying attention too. I can't get too worked up when a big run cuts the lead to "only 12".

rsvman
02-11-2018, 08:09 PM
Really? After 26 point lead? This team cannot put anyone away.

So in your mind are you punishing the team for doing exceptionally well?

In other words, if we had been ahead by 8-12 the whole way you would've been more pleased? It boils down to that you would've been happier if they had played a more mediocre game. It's not logical.

HereBeforeCoachK
02-11-2018, 08:11 PM
So in your mind are you punishing the team for doing exceptionally well?

In other words, if we had been ahead by 8-12 the whole way you would've been more pleased? It boils down to that you would've been happier if they had played a more mediocre game. It's not logical.

Sorry, your question is a straw argument. You presented it as if it were one or the other......no, lead by 26, win by 20, don't let Tech get back in it.

scottdude8
02-11-2018, 08:11 PM
A road win in the ACC is always good news. Better news when it comes without our best player. This wasn’t a marquee performance by any means but I think the doom and gloom from the last two games is getting transferred onto this game. If anything I think the news form this game is a net positive given Grayson showed some serious flashes of his old self.

wavedukefan70s
02-11-2018, 08:13 PM
I agree. We have too much talent this year to allow Austin Rivers to derail things.
👍I get it....