MBB: Duke at Cheaters (Th 2/8, 8pm, ESPN)

[richardjackson199]

Thursday, February 8, 2018

Both teams combined ranking will be a little lower than usual. But this is an absolutely huge game for both teams.

1 team will leave this game feeling very good heading into the most important part of the regular season, trying to peak into post season form.

After results from the last few weeks, 1 team will leave this game with an extremely upset fan base and would do well to lock their online forum after the game.

Paging CDu for his excellent scouting report.

9F; Let's get this win! Go Duke! I'll be happy if we just go and play our hearts out, together as a team, for 40 minutes (that is Duke basketball).

[awhom111]

Is this going to function as the pre-game thread?

The following stations will carry ACC Network coverage of the game:
http://theacc.com/sports/2017/12/9/acc-network-mbb-180208.aspx

Remember that those in those markets will have the choice between either the ACC feed or ESPN and will not be blacked out of either.

The link will be also be place to watch the game online, free and without any restrictions geographically, which is especially good news for those in other countries who do not get the game locally.

[dukelifer]

Thursday, February 8, 2018

Both teams combined ranking will be a little lower than usual. But this is an absolutely huge game for both teams.

1 team will leave this game feeling very good heading into the most important part of the regular season, trying to peak into post season form.

After results from the last few weeks, 1 team will leave this game with an extremely upset fan base and would do well to lock their online forum after the game.

Paging CDu for his excellent scouting report.

9F; Let's get this win! Go Duke! I'll be happy if we just go and play our hearts out, together as a team, for 40 minutes (that is Duke basketball).

Duke has more talent- UNC has more experience- game is usually close- Maye is sneaky good and a handful if left open, Pinson's and Berry's last Duke game at home- both will play well, X-factor's will be Cam Johnson and Bolden, Duke will face a double digit deficit at some point- Duke will roar back late- will come down to free throws and some crazy shots.

[richardjackson199]

Is this going to function as the pre-game thread?

The following stations will carry ACC Network coverage of the game:
http://theacc.com/sports/2017/12/9/acc-network-mbb-180208.aspx

Remember that those in those markets will have the choice between either the ACC feed or ESPN and will not be blacked out of either.

The link will be also be place to watch the game online, free and without any restrictions geographically, which is especially good news for those in other countries who do not get the game locally.

Thanks for this. That is good news.

I am ready for the pregame thread and ready to move on, to Duke being Duke. It's a good game to do that. :D

[richardjackson199]

Duke has more talent- UNC has more experience- game is usually close- Maye is sneaky good and a handful if left open, Pinson's and Berry's last Duke game at home- both will play well, X-factor's will be Cam Johnson and Bolden, Duke will face a double digit deficit at some point- Duke will roar back late- will come down to free throws and some crazy shots.

I sure hope not. Roaring back comebacks from double digit deficits is not a good or likely formula for success on the road in hostile environments against seniors like Berry who can hit daggers and free throws. We should know that by now.

I'd prefer to blow them out of the building from the opening tip.

and all the cheats in cheatville cried boo hoo

Should be a fun game, for somebody.

[DukieInBrasil]

I sure hope not. Roaring back comebacks from double digit deficits is not a good or likely formula for success on the road in hostile environments against seniors like Berry who can hit daggers and free throws. We should know that by now.
I'd prefer to blow them out of the building from the opening tip.
and all the cheats in cheatville cried boo hoo
Should be a fun game, for somebody.

withe exception of Pitt and other overwhelmed teams, this iteration of Duke seems incapable of playing any other way. I can't think of a single game in which the opponent was of upper level quality in which Duke came out with verve from the opening tip and never let up. Even against lesser opponents, this team doesn't seem to play with any urgency in the first few (30?) minutes of games. Chalk this up to youth, inexperience or whatever, but i'm not expecting this team to not make multiple really JV squad type turnovers right out of the gate.
Aside from that, i do expect that most of the game will be very intense, and i would love some salty, salty Cheaterwhina tears at the end.

[DaleDuke7]

I can’t think of a better time for Grayson to get (and stay) going than Thursday vs the cheats. He seems to always play better, especially shooting wise, against unc. And seeing that his shooting is what needs to improve the most, it’s the perfect storm. We certainly need him to get back in the groove soon, if we expect to make a legit title run. He’s the most experienced, most passionate, and, for me, still the best shooter on the team. We need his leadership, both vocally, and with his offense. Here’s to hoping Thursday lights a spark in him.

[Ian]

withe exception of Pitt and other overwhelmed teams, this iteration of Duke seems incapable of playing any other way. I can't think of a single game in which the opponent was of upper level quality in which Duke came out with verve from the opening tip and never let up. Even against lesser opponents, this team doesn't seem to play with any urgency in the first few (30?) minutes of games. Chalk this up to youth, inexperience or whatever, but i'm not expecting this team to not make multiple really JV squad type turnovers right out of the gate.
Aside from that, i do expect that most of the game will be very intense, and i would love some salty, salty Cheaterwhina tears at the end.

I think the script is going to be pretty easy to predict for this one. We will come out on fire, probably get an early 10 point lead of say 26-16, then the ADD kicks in as the team start to think the game is in hand, followed by sloppy turnovers and inattention on d, leading to an inability to pull away and letting UNC hang around. Probably end the first half with a slim lead of 42-38. Then the 2nd half starts and the sloppiness continues, meanwhile the other team get their act together and puts together a run and with 10 minutes left we're down 64-54.

At which point the team wakes up and makes a run, takes a 73-71 lead with about 4 minutes left. Honestly I'm not sure how it ends but I'm pretty sure that's how the first 36 will go.

[richardjackson199]

I think the script is going to be pretty easy to predict for this one. We will come out on fire, probably get an early 10 point lead of say 26-16, then the ADD kicks in as the team start to think the game is in hand, followed by sloppy turnovers and inattention on d, leading to an inability to pull away and letting UNC hang around. Probably end the first half with a slim lead of 42-38. Then the 2nd half starts and the sloppiness continues, meanwhile the other team get their act together and puts together a run and with 10 minutes left we're down 64-54.

At which point the team wakes up and makes a run, takes a 73-71 lead with about 4 minutes left. Honestly I'm not sure how it ends but I'm pretty sure that's how the first 36 will go.

One thing I've learned from watching games in this rivalry for decades is that the script is impossible to predict, but the games are almost always thrilling to watch.

[sciencegeek]

Anyone going to the game on Thursday? I was thinking about it if I can find reasonably priced tickets.

[DukieInBrasil]

I think the script is going to be pretty easy to predict for this one. We will come out on fire, probably get an early 12 point lead of say 24-12, then the ADD kicks in as the team start to think the game is in hand, followed by sloppy turnovers and inattention on d, leading to an inability to pull away and letting UNC hang around. Probably end the first half with a slim lead of 38-35. Then the 2nd half starts and the sloppiness continues, meanwhile the other team get their act together and puts together a run and with 10 minutes left we're down 68-54.

At which point the team wakes up and makes a run, takes a 71-70 lead with about 4 minutes left. Honestly I'm not sure how it ends but I'm pretty sure that's how the first 36 will go.

I think you nailed the flow of the game (loved the ADD line). Just for sh**s and giggles i changed some of the numbers, not that i have any reason to quibble with yours. Let's see who is closer!!!

[richardjackson199]

Anyone going to the game on Thursday? I was thinking about it if I can find reasonably priced tickets.

Tickets won't be cheap, but they won't be as expensive as when this game is in Cameron. If you really want to go, you can probably make it happen.

I've been to games there before, including 99 when we demolished them. Be careful. Just for wearing Duke gear and cheering for my team some drunk cheat fans literally tried to start a fight with me "for having the nerve to wear that and cheer for Duke in the Dean Dome." In this state it gets pathologically serious, and can become dangerous if you're not careful.

Have fun! Hopefully it will be

[kshepinthehouse]

Anyone going to the game on Thursday? I was thinking about it if I can find reasonably priced tickets.

I’m thinking about going too. A lot easier to find a cheap ticket if you are by yourself. Don’t wear your Duke gear as that will severely hamper your chances obviously.

[ncexnyc]

I think the script is going to be pretty easy to predict for this one. We will come out on fire, probably get an early 10 point lead of say 26-16, then the ADD kicks in as the team start to think the game is in hand, followed by sloppy turnovers and inattention on d, leading to an inability to pull away and letting UNC hang around. Probably end the first half with a slim lead of 42-38. Then the 2nd half starts and the sloppiness continues, meanwhile the other team get their act together and puts together a run and with 10 minutes left we're down 64-54.

At which point the team wakes up and makes a run, takes a 73-71 lead with about 4 minutes left. Honestly I'm not sure how it ends but I'm pretty sure that's how the first 36 will go.

Looks like you and I have been watching the same show all season long.

Team builds a nice lead and is ready pub stomp the opponent into oblivion and then they turn right around and make two or three boneheaded plays that lets the other team back into the game.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I don’t understand all the hand wringing. I have it good authority that K is feeding he lions raw meat all week and preparing an all out siege against dean’s myth dome. The sheep don’t stand a chance.

[dukelifer]

I think the script is going to be pretty easy to predict for this one. We will come out on fire, probably get an early 10 point lead of say 26-16, then the ADD kicks in as the team start to think the game is in hand, followed by sloppy turnovers and inattention on d, leading to an inability to pull away and letting UNC hang around. Probably end the first half with a slim lead of 42-38. Then the 2nd half starts and the sloppiness continues, meanwhile the other team get their act together and puts together a run and with 10 minutes left we're down 64-54.

At which point the team wakes up and makes a run, takes a 73-71 lead with about 4 minutes left. Honestly I'm not sure how it ends but I'm pretty sure that's how the first 36 will go.
Yep- that is the script. But any scenario that ends with a win is fine with me. You can’t even analyze the game- it is about emotional execution.

[dukelifer]

I don’t understand all the hand wringing. I have it good authority that K is feeding he lions raw meat all week and preparing an all out siege against dean’s myth dome. The sheep don’t stand a chance.

Aussies know a thing or two about sheep. Jack White’s D on Maye will be the difference. Mark it down.

[richardjackson199]

Aussies know a thing or two about sheep. Jack White’s D on Maye will be the difference. Mark it down.

Oh they sure do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nm8VNDI6bM

[CDu]

As most of you know, this isn’t your typical UNC team. Years of missing on high-profile recruits and the unexpected early entry of Tony Bradley to the NBA has left UNC unusually thin in the frontcourt. They just don’t have the horses to play the typical dual-big lineup that UNC is famous for. That hasn’t stopped Williams from trying to do it, but it really isn’t UNC’s best lineup this year.

The Heels are still a very good rebounding team (tops in the ACC in conference play), and still a hyper-efficient offense. As usual, they push tempo. But it is hard not to look at this UNC team and see shades of OUR typical approach on offense: they will quite regularly play a 4-out, 1-in approach, especially when they go small. They have a plethora of shooters. And they don’t have a pass-first PG.

Centers: Lately, the Heels haven’t been playing a center. When they do, it is usually Garrison Brooks (6’9”, 215lb frosh). Sterling Manley (6’11”, 240lb frosh) also gets minutes. Brooks is mobile and athletic but really raw. He only plays about 15-20 mpg, and he will be HEAVILY overmatched in this one. Manley is bigger and more prototypical centery, posting very good rebound rates and shotblocking. He appears to be more skilled than Brooks, but is foul prone. The two combine for about 30 mpg, and UNC frequently plays small in the other minutes. Brandon Huffman (6’10”, 250lb frosh) is the last of the four centers. Huffman is strong and athletic but the least skilled right now, and plays only about 5 mpg.

Forwards: Luke Maye (6’8”, 240 lb junior) is the only name to know here. Maye was a lightly recruited player who has worked very hard to become a good college player. He is very strong, but lacks any speed/explosiveness. But he is a terrific rebounder and has made himself an amazing shooter. His physical limitations show up against more athletic bigs, so I would expect our guys to work him over on offense. And if you make him a focal point of your defensive gameplan and shadow him religiously, he is fairly limited offensively. I doubt our bigs will stay disciplined enough on him, though, and if open he will torch you. He simply can’t be forgotten about.

Wings: Theo Pinson (6’6”, 195lb senior) is a jack-of-most-trades wing/forward. He can’t shoot a lick, but in every other way he is terrific. Capable of guarding four positions, the best passer on the team, and a terrific rebounder. He is an unsung hero on that team. If he could shoot at all, he would be in the pros. Pinson’s running mate is Cam Johnson (6’7”, 190lb “junior”/grad transfer from Pitt). Johnson is offensively a reasonable approximation of Justin Jackson. He is a streaky but dangerous shooter, with a lot of length. Johnson isn’t great on defense, which is the separation between the two. Kenny Williams (6’4”, 170lb junior) is the third wing. Williams is a solid defender and good athlete who can really shoot it. A very dangerous catch-and-shoot guy. Ole Roy will rely heavily on these three. When they have to sub, they will go to Brandon Robinson (6’5”, 170lb ) and Andrew Platek (6’3” 195lb frosh). Platek is a scrappy player who can shoot but is underwhelming athletically. If you squint, he is kind of the guard version of Maye. Robinson can shoot but is SUPER skinny. Both are a big step down from the starters.

Guards: You all know Joel Berry (6’0”, 195lb senior). He is the heart of that team. He isn’t quick, doesn’t jump high, doesn’t shoot with a high release, and is not a superlative ballhandler. But he is VERY strong, smart with the ball, and very confident. He is a strong shooter, and fearless going to the basket. If there is a key shot to take, he is likely to take it. And he will make it a lot of the time. A difficult assignment for Duval, who hasn’t been great on-ball defensively this year. The problem for UNC is that their two backups are likely out. Felton almost certainly won’t play, while Seventh Woods (6’2”, 180lb soph) has missed most of the season with injury. If Woods remains out, it will be up to Berry and Pinson to run the show with no safety net. That is a lot to ask.

This will not be easy. UNC can really shoot. If they are hitting shots and can avoid injury or foul trouble to their key players, we will be in for a dogfight. Really hope that Coach K gets through to the team this week.

[mr shadow 008]

Going with a couple cheat fans this Thursday. This will be my first Duke mens game. While it sucks it’s at the Dean Dome I’m still obviously excited. Any advice on what time we should arrive there? Also curious if the basketball museum will be open on Thursday? I’d like to go check it out before heading to the game.

[gofurman]

Going with a couple cheat fans this Thursday. This will be my first Duke mens game. While it sucks it’s at the Dean Dome I’m still obviously excited. Any advice on what time we should arrive there? Also curious if the basketball museum will be open on Thursday? I’d like to go check it out before heading to the game.

Going into this game w a we-will-lose approach. If we win its gravy. lost at BC and NC State. Such a young team. I want to aim for March. Keep learning D. SHOW EFFORT! Dive for balls. No stupid turnovers - no live ball turnovers which lead to 2 pts. Shoot Grayson shoot. Feed the post all night. If we lose, fine, but get better. Rather lose now and make a good March run...

[Troublemaker]

Going into this game w a we-will-lose approach. If we win its gravy. lost at BC and NC State. Such a young team. I want to aim for March. Keep learning D. SHOW EFFORT! Dive for balls. No stupid turnovers - no live ball turnovers which lead to 2 pts. Shoot Grayson shoot. Feed the post all night. If we lose, fine, but get better. Rather lose now and make a good March run...

The "lose but show improvement, making fans more positive for March" scenario is so narrow it might as well not exist.

Nothing positive will come from a loss on Thursday.

Time for the boys to step it up.

[gofurman]

The "lose but show improvement, making fans more positive for March" scenario is so narrow it might as well not exist.

Nothing positive will come from a loss on Thursday.

Time for the boys to step it up.

I understand. want Duke to win in a huge way... But South Carolina was a good but not great team last year who peaked in March- and, unfair as I think that is, people recall their season as better

Don't get me wrong. I really want to win Thursday. Will be sad if we lose. Really sad is we look uninspired - at least show huge effort and leave it all on the floor. Bailey and Carter should OWN the paint

[duke4ever19]

I understand. want Duke to win in a huge way... But South Carolina was a good but not great team last year who peaked in March- and, unfair as I think that is, people recall their season as better

Don't get me wrong. I really want to win Thursday. Will be sad if we lose. Really sad is we look uninspired - at least show huge effort and leave it all on the floor. Bailey and Carter should OWN the paint

And prior to that South Carolina game, we were riding a major high from that epic ACC Tournament run which resulted in a championship.

And many in the media began proclaiming that Duke had turned the corner and was now emerging as the scary-good team that they were predicted to be in the pre-season. I'll admit it . . . I didn't see South Carolina coming.

[Troublemaker]

I understand. want Duke to win in a huge way... But South Carolina was a good but not great team last year who peaked in March- and, unfair as I think that is, people recall their season as better

Don't get me wrong. I really want to win Thursday. Will be sad if we lose. Really sad is we look uninspired - at least show huge effort and leave it all on the floor. Bailey and Carter should OWN the paint

A few things:

Historically, Duke doesn't get to the Final Four the way South Carolina did. We make our runs by getting a high seed, most often a #1 seed.
The loss to St. John's and Coach K's postgame press conference raised the stakes for this game, even as high-stakes as a Duke-UNC game usually is. The team needs to respond here. It's not a must-win but a near-must-win.
More to the point, you are afraid of UNC beating us and thus are psychologically artificially lowering the stakes. "A loss is okay if blah blah blah." Stop. It's UNC. Beat their butts.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Some interesting nuggets about UNC this year.

They are relying on 3 point shooting more than ever, but they are not a particularly good shooting team. This might account for the 7 losses on the season. As a team, they are only 82nd in the nation in 3P% (37.2%) and are 10th in the ACC in conference play at 34.9%. Where they really struggle is on the defensive end. They are allowing 38.2% 3P% to opponents, good for 344th (out of 351) in the nation and 13th in conference play at a whopping 39.2%. Hello Gary Trent, Jr.! Grayson, buddy, please also contribute. Your team needs you.

After losing Kennedy Meeks, Isaiah Hicks, and Justin Jackson, one would have expected a drop off in their rebounding abilities. That is not the case. If Cam Johnson and Luke Maye both start, as has been the case lately, their tallest player is 6'7". They are particularly good at the offensive rebound, hauling in 36.% of their misses, 3rd best in the nation. A lot of those are coming off of missed 3's. With Johnson and Maye playing opposite Bagley III and Carter, Jr., I don't know how either team will guard the other. Duke may play more zone to limit the number of times the bigs will have to defend on the perimeter. On the offensive end, I don't see how either of Johnson or Maye will stop the Duke bigs. Expect a number of lobs and Carter, Jr. getting a ton of isolation.

Looking at their other stats, nothing really pops out. They appear to be playing at their normal quick tempo, transition-oriented offense. When they miss 3's, they generate a lot of second chances. The key here appears to be to own the defensive boards and keep the game to more of a halfcourt affair. Virginia and Michigan State were able to hold this North Carolina team under 50 points each with that strategy. It's easier said than done, of course.

GTHC

[Troublemaker]

Matchups will be so interesting in this one.

UNC's lineup that should give us the most problems is the one with Maye at center and CamJohnson at PF. But will Roy be so mind-fricked (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/unc-now/article69039897.html) by the presence of Carter and Bagley that he chooses to play his traditional centers way more than he should?

And IF UNC does go to the small lineup for much of the game, can Coach K get creative with the defensive matchups? Bagley on CamJohnson is probably not a good idea. When UNC sets a down screen for Johnson to pop out up top for a three, is Bagley going to be able to navigate through that screen and chase Johnson off the line? Maybe, but I have my doubts. I think many NBA coaches would "hide" Bagley on Pinson, who's a horrible shooter, and have one of the guards take Johnson, for example. Bagley would then give Pinson a huge cushion when guarding him on-ball, daring him to take the three.

[CDu]

They are relying on 3 point shooting more than ever, but they are not a particularly good shooting team. This might account for the 7 losses on the season. As a team, they are only 82nd in the nation in 3P% (37.2%) and are 10th in the ACC in conference play at 34.9%. Where they really struggle is on the defensive end. They are allowing 38.2% 3P% to opponents, good for 344th (out of 351) in the nation and 13th in conference play at a whopping 39.2%. Hello Gary Trent, Jr.! Grayson, buddy, please also contribute. Your team needs you.

I wouldn't put too much stock in those ACC-only 3pt percentages. UNC has a ton of good 3pt shooters this year. They have 6 guys who are shooting over 36% from 3 for the season. And the only 2 of those that are below 39% are Berry and Johnson, who are arguably 2 of their 3 best shooters. Basically, everyone but Pinson and their centers is a terrific 3pt shooter.

Now, Johnson and Berry have had some up and down games in conference play, including some real clunkers from 3 (the Va Tech and State games being prime examples. They take a ton of UNC's 3pt attempts, so when they have off-days the team's percentage suffers. Given our struggles with defending the 3pt shot this year, UNC's 3pt shooting remains a significant concern.

[gofurman]

A few things:

Historically, Duke doesn't get to the Final Four the way South Carolina did. We make our runs by getting a high seed, most often a #1 seed.
The loss to St. John's and Coach K's postgame press conference raised the stakes for this game, even as high-stakes as a Duke-UNC game usually is. The team needs to respond here. It's not a must-win but a near-must-win.
More to the point, you are afraid of UNC beating us and thus are psychologically artificially lowering the stakes. "A loss is okay if blah blah blah." Stop. It's UNC. Beat their butts.


yes, I am.. As a true fan I fear EVERY opponent. EVERY ONE. I was very much afraid of St Johns and the way they were underrated with very close losses to Villanova and Xavier etc. Anyone who can play within 5-7 points of Villanova and Xavier can beat us. And it is perfectly fine if I approach games in whatever way I want. What I think - or any fan thinks - doesn't matter one iota as to what Duke does Thursday or in March. No need to tell me how to think or not think w regards to something as trivial in the big picture of life as a basketball game. to each his own. Look, I want Duke to win as much as anyone.. but I am also aware Duke can win the national title having lost this week. It isn't college football where 2 regular season losses knocks you out of the running. I do agree Duke historically wins the title as a top seed but, then again, how often is Duke NOT a top 1/2/3 seed? not often. So there isn't much sample size of data from which to say we can't make a run as a 3 seed... Conversely, you could also say Duke historically loses in the first weekend MORE OFTEN as a top 1- 4 seed than as a 6-8 seed. I haven't looked but I bet that is a statistical fact. Because we aren't usually a 6-8 seed.. But we do lose on occasion in the first weekend as a 2-4 seed (Lehigh, Mercer etc)

Every year, we - and every team - have these losses.. often to NC State for us. And we sometimes have won the National Title soon thereafter. Heck, Duke won the ACC weekend title last year - which is banner worthy.. and then couldn't get out of the first weekend. Given my choice - I would rather not have won the ACC weekend and made the Final Four

All that said, I call it a coin flip at UNC and think we win at home. It's really a bigger game for UNC this week , if they lose they are 6-6 and 17-8. If we lose we are 7-4 and 19-5. Plus we turn around after this game w at GT and home VT. UNC goes right to State for another tough one.

[Troublemaker]

yes, I am.. As a true fan I fear EVERY opponent. EVERY ONE. I was very much afraid of St Johns and the way they were underrated with very close losses to Villanova and Xavier etc. Anyone who can play within 5-7 points of Villanova and Xavier can beat us. And it is perfectly fine if I approach games in whatever way I want. What I think - or any fan thinks - doesn't matter one iota as to what Duke does Thursday or in March. No need to tell me how to think or not think w regards to something as trivial in the big picture of life as a basketball game. to each his own.

I mean, all opinions should be fair game for critique. You can try to downplay the game, and I can ask whom you are trying to fool :-) It's clearly a huge game because it's Duke-UNC and it's also coming off the SJU loss and Coach K's postgame presser. (And yes, obviously what we write on this forum has no effect on the game).

[jamos14]

My biggest concern going into the game is how does Duke defend Berry/Maye in a pick and roll or pick and pop? If I were UNC, I would run it every single play. Duke proved they couldn't defend it well against Ponds. Berry isn't as quick in the lane but he has Maye to cause more problem with the pick and pop play.

Does UNC run a lot of pick and roll action?

[W&LHoo]

Does the fact that both programs could really use the quality win for tournament seeding purposes raise the stakes/temperature or are emotions already basically as high as they can be anytime you guys play each other?

[richardjackson199]

Does the fact that both programs could really use the quality win for tournament seeding purposes raise the stakes/temperature or are emotions already basically as high as they can be anytime you guys play each other?

Yes

:cool:

[Eakane]

"And it is perfectly fine if I approach games in whatever way I want. What I think - or any fan thinks - doesn't matter one iota as to what Duke does Thursday or in March."

If I don't prepare adequately for the game, how can I expect the team to do more? I'm watching tape, I'm carbo-loading, I'm pre-arranging my schedule to clear everything. I'm even contemplating a pre-game nap. Then I'll be ready.

Couple of truisms to consider:

1. The UNC team that flailed at home against Winthrop will not be showing up Thursday. Every year they drop a stinker like College of Charleston, and then come out like warrior poets (watched Braveheart recently) for the Duke game.

2. This is an undermanned UNC team, the result of early entrants and recruits who had more common sense than the NCAA had, and rightly stayed away. Thin up front, less than usual quality everywhere else.

3. Duke has got to find a defensive identity. No reason not to start now. Start with this: GET BACK on D. Must be ready for Carolina's secondary break. GET BACK. I get hoarse yelling this at the TV.

4. For me, the key is TD. I think Gray will find his shot, and if he's doubled every time he touches the ball, like in the UVa game, he'll make the right pass. Trent is going to give you points, even if he disappears from the O from time to time. Carter and Bags are going to combine for monster numbers. And the bench is going to contribute nada. So that leaves Tre. I'm not jumping on the "it's-his-fault" bandwagon; just saying that as the point, as the on-court extension of K, as the floor general, as the one with the ball in his hands, he has got to make good decisions. Play with a reckless abandon that isn't "reckless." Don't be afraid to throw it long just because of the terrible pass at the end of the UVa game. Controlled chaos. Every possession is precious. Every possession.

We'll go as far as Tre takes us this season. I hope he welcomes that responsibility.

[Troublemaker]

Pick and Roll/Pop
My biggest concern going into the game is how does Duke defend Berry/Maye in a pick and roll or pick and pop? If I were UNC, I would run it every single play. Duke proved they couldn't defend it well against Ponds. Berry isn't as quick in the lane but he has Maye to cause more problem with the pick and pop play.

Does UNC run a lot of pick and roll action?

There was a recent game (UNC at Clemson?) where they ran almost exclusively PNR with Berry down the stretch of the game, but typically UNC isn't a heavy PNR team. Actually, in recent history, UVA and UNC are the two ACC teams against whom we get a reprieve from playing PNR defense. They both just run their stuff. UVA's uses a barrage of off-ball screens to free perimeter scorers, and UNC tries to post us up and throw in a down screen here and there for Justin Jackson to pop out up top for three.

With UNC's personnel being atypical for them this season, we'll just have to wait and see how they attack Duke. It probably does behoove them to test our PNR defense, and we probably would switch a Berry/Maye pick-and-pop. They should also set off-ball screens to try to free their shooters. We weren't able to guard UVA's off-ball screens very well, although I hope we'll be improved in this game.

If I were Duke, I would want UNC to play Sterling Manley a lot and try to post him up. While he looks like a good, young big man, that's probably the least concerning of their options.

[CDu]

There was a recent game (UNC at Clemson?) where they ran almost exclusively PNR with Berry down the stretch of the game, but typically UNC isn't a heavy PNR team. Actually, in recent history, UVA and UNC are the two ACC teams against whom we get a reprieve from playing PNR defense. They both just run their stuff. UVA's uses a barrage of off-ball screens to free perimeter scorers, and UNC tries to post us up and throw in a down screen here and there for Justin Jackson to pop out up top for three.

With UNC's personnel being atypical for them this season, we'll just have to wait and see how they attack Duke. It probably does behoove them to test our PNR defense, and we probably would switch a Berry/Maye pick-and-pop. They should also set off-ball screens to try to free their shooters. We weren't able to guard UVA's off-ball screens very well, although I hope we'll be improved in this game.

If I were Duke, I would want UNC to play Sterling Manley a lot and try to post him up. While he looks like a good, young big man, that's probably the least concerning of their options.

Agree with this totally. UNC historically runs most of their screen action away from the ball, either to free up a guy in the post or to free a shooter on the wing. If they stick to that script, advantage us.

It will be very interesting to see whether Williams sticks with his most effective lineup (which has been Maye with four guards/wings) or if he is enticed to go back to a more traditional UNC lineup for fear of our bigs. Obviously, if Felton and Woods are both still out (well, Felton WILL be out, Woods is questionable), they'll have to go big at least some, as they simply don't have the perimeter depth/quality to stay with four pure perimeter guys for 40 minutes. And of course Williams WANTS to go big, so any excuse to do so would probably seem like a real possibility for it to happen. It's just that the quality of Williams' bigs after Maye is... well... low. Manley has plenty of potential, but he's still probably a year away. And the other two (Brooks, Huffman) are just not that good (at least not yet).

It would be really interesting to see Williams stick with his smallball lineup against us for 30+ minutes.

[Neals384]

I think the script is going to be pretty easy to predict for this one. We will come out on fire, probably get an early 10 point lead of say 26-16, then the ADD kicks in as the team start to think the game is in hand, followed by sloppy turnovers and inattention on d, leading to an inability to pull away and letting UNC hang around. Probably end the first half with a slim lead of 42-38. Then the 2nd half starts and the sloppiness continues, meanwhile the other team get their act together and puts together a run and with 10 minutes left we're down 64-54.

At which point the team wakes up and makes a run, takes a 73-71 lead with about 4 minutes left. Honestly I'm not sure how it ends but I'm pretty sure that's how the first 36 will go.

Not sure my heart can take another one of these...


I don’t understand all the hand wringing. I have it good authority that K is feeding he lions raw meat all week and preparing an all out siege against dean’s myth dome. The sheep don’t stand a chance.

That's more like it!


(And yes, obviously what we write on this forum has no effect on the game).

What? I thought Jumbo was lurking here to get input for our game plan:rolleyes:


We'll go as far as Tre takes us this season. I hope he welcomes that responsibility.

That's about the size of it. If he plays to his capability every possession, we will win out the season.

[gofurman]

"And it is perfectly fine if I approach games in whatever way I want. What I think - or any fan thinks - doesn't matter one iota as to what Duke does Thursday or in March."

If I don't prepare adequately for the game, how can I expect the team to do more? I'm watching tape, I'm carbo-loading, I'm pre-arranging my schedule to clear everything. I'm even contemplating a pre-game nap. Then I'll be ready.

Couple of truisms to consider:

1. The UNC team that flailed at home against Winthrop will not be showing up Thursday. Every year they drop a stinker like College of Charleston, and then come out like warrior poets (watched Braveheart recently) for the Duke game.

2. This is an undermanned UNC team, the result of early entrants and recruits who had more common sense than the NCAA had, and rightly stayed away. Thin up front, less than usual quality everywhere else.

3. Duke has got to find a defensive identity. No reason not to start now. Start with this: GET BACK on D. Must be ready for Carolina's secondary break. GET BACK. I get hoarse yelling this at the TV.

4. For me, the key is TD. I think Gray will find his shot, and if he's doubled every time he touches the ball, like in the UVa game, he'll make the right pass. Trent is going to give you points, even if he disappears from the O from time to time. Carter and Bags are going to combine for monster numbers. And the bench is going to contribute nada. So that leaves Tre. I'm not jumping on the "it's-his-fault" bandwagon; just saying that as the point, as the on-court extension of K, as the floor general, as the one with the ball in his hands, he has got to make good decisions. Play with a reckless abandon that isn't "reckless." Don't be afraid to throw it long just because of the terrible pass at the end of the UVa game. Controlled chaos. Every possession is precious. Every possession.

We'll go as far as Tre takes us this season. I hope he welcomes that responsibility.

good point - everyone do whatever it takes as far as good luck for the good guys ! however/whatever you did the last time we beat unc - do that !

not nit picking but I think you meant WOFFORD and not Winthrop beat UNC? As a Furman guy (see my name) I am familiar w Wofford - interesting, UNC is playing AT Wofford next year .. SoCon is decent this year. Wofford alone beat UNC and Georgia Tech. But I digress

[PackMan97]

Please beat the Cheaters senseless. Beat them by 30 in the first half, and then another 30 in the second. Break all of their ankles (basketball wise), crush their spirits and then do it again to the walk-ons when Roy abandons them on the court! Show no mercy. Sweep the leg. Bar the arm. Lock the head. Give them a wedgie and then a swirlie. Make them cry uncle and then cry for their mommies.

That's my way of saying, good luck and I hope the good guys win this one.

[BigZ]

Duke fell to number 9 and Carolina 21.

[nocilla]

Is this going to function as the pre-game thread?

The following stations will carry ACC Network coverage of the game:
http://theacc.com/sports/2017/12/9/acc-network-mbb-180208.aspx

Remember that those in those markets will have the choice between either the ACC feed or ESPN and will not be blacked out of either.

The link will be also be place to watch the game online, free and without any restrictions geographically, which is especially good news for those in other countries who do not get the game locally.

Just wanted to point out that our typical ACC feed is WRAL 5 but they will be showing the Olympics. So according to local listings, those of us in the area will find it on Fox 50 WRAZ. And obviously espn but if you prefer the local station.

[curtis325]

Please beat the Cheaters senseless. Beat them by 30 in the first half, and then another 30 in the second. Break all of their ankles (basketball wise), crush their spirits and then do it again to the walk-ons when Roy abandons them on the court! Show no mercy. Sweep the leg. Bar the arm. Lock the head. Give them a wedgie and then a swirlie. Make them cry uncle and then cry for their mommies.

That's my way of saying, good luck and I hope the good guys win this one.


Will do!

[dukebluesincebirth]

I'm feeling pretty good about our chances in Chapel hill as long as we stay poised and play to our strengths. My sports mojo is trending upward this week as my beloved Philadelphia Eagles have just won the Super Bowl (still feels weird to even type that). Any other Eagles fans on DBR? How bout them BIRDS!!! An Eagles Super Bowl and a Duke over UNC victory in the same week would be, well, special. Lets get it done boys!!!!

[subzero02]

Ever since Austin's back breaking 3 pointer, the Dean dome has held a special place in my heart. I hope we run them off the court. I know K will have them fired up; this game is an extremely important indication of our mental fortitude and resilience as a team.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Like many others have pointed out, there is no way to really predict how this game plays out.

Having said that, I think for UNC to win, one of the keys will be to go inside and get some fouls on Carter and Bagley. To do that, everybody, but especially Pinson, will need to come out and be aggressive driving, and UNC will have to do a better job feeding Maye in the post and see if his pump fakes work on the freshmen.

I think Manley will be a key reserve inside too. He has a stronger post offensive game for a freshman than he's given credit for, and really good hands. UNC needs to feed him the ball when he's in there and let him attack the rim to draw contact.

You can bet Roy is working with Pinson and Maye at the foul line this week planning to attack Duke's zone in the 1/2 court. Pinson needs to turn and head to the rim on the catch, and Maye needs to mix it up with a jumper from the line and attacking the rim.

UNC will get some good looks from three out of Duke's zone. They are a good shooting team that's been off the past few games. A good night, or at least average, shooting from deep will go a long way towards a win. They can't afford to have another poor shooting performance.

Defensively, UNC will have to stick with Trent and Allen on the kick outs to challenge the jumpers to limit a barrage of threes like we've seen from teams the past few games.

UNC will also have to show extra effort blocking out Bagley and Carter, who are great rebounders, another area where UNC is usually pretty good at that can also draw fouls on them. Bagley in particular will have to watch out for a charge call, Williams and Pinson are smart about drawing charges.

My UNC Defensive Matchups:
Maye/Carter
Pinson/Bagley
Johnson/Trent
Williams/Allen
Berry/Duval

Expect Woods to sub for Berry/Williams (He's been cleared), and Brandon Robinson to sub for Johnson/Pinson and play along with Manley and Brooks inside. Platek will see some time if UNC is shooting it well.

UNC can't afford to let Duke go off from deep like State and Tech did. If they can hold the 3pt shooting to an average night, I like UNC 's chances. It took some great shooting and overtime for State to win, and way above average 3pt shooting from Tech too, along with some poor UNC shooting, for them to win those two games.

UNC is a better team than their record is currently showing.

UNC is due for a good shooting night themselves. If they get hot, this one could get ugly for Duke fans. One can only hope! :)

Here's to a great game!

[olegreg]

Like many others have pointed out, there is no way to really predict how this game plays out.

Having said that, I think for UNC to win, one of the keys will be to go inside and get some fouls on Carter and Bagley. To do that, everybody, but especially Pinson, will need to come out and be aggressive driving, and UNC will have to do a better job feeding Maye in the post and see if his pump fakes work on the freshmen.

I think Manley will be a key reserve inside too. He has a stronger post offensive game for a freshman than he's given credit for, and really good hands. UNC needs to feed him the ball when he's in there and let him attack the rim to draw contact.

You can bet Roy is working with Pinson and Maye at the foul line this week planning to attack Duke's zone in the 1/2 court. Pinson needs to turn and head to the rim on the catch, and Maye needs to mix it up with a jumper from the line and attacking the rim.

UNC will get some good looks from three out of Duke's zone. They are a good shooting team that's been off the past few games. A good night, or at least average, shooting from deep will go a long way towards a win. They can't afford to have another poor shooting performance.

Defensively, UNC will have to stick with Trent and Allen on the kick outs to challenge the jumpers to limit a barrage of threes like we've seen from teams the past few games.

UNC will also have to show extra effort blocking out Bagley and Carter, who are great rebounders, another area where UNC is usually pretty good at that can also draw fouls on them. Bagley in particular will have to watch out for a charge call, Williams and Pinson are smart about drawing charges.

My UNC Defensive Matchups:
Maye/Carter
Pinson/Bagley
Johnson/Trent
Williams/Allen
Berry/Duval

Expect Woods to sub for Berry/Williams (He's been cleared), and Brandon Robinson to sub for Johnson/Pinson and play along with Manley and Brooks inside. Platek will see some time if UNC is shooting it well.

UNC can't afford to let Duke go off from deep like State and Tech did. If they can hold the 3pt shooting to an average night, I like UNC 's chances. It took some great shooting and overtime for State to win, and way above average 3pt shooting from Tech too, along with some poor UNC shooting, for them to win those two games.

UNC is a better team than their record is currently showing.

UNC is due for a good shooting night themselves. If they get hot, this one could get ugly for Duke fans. One can only hope! :)

Here's to a great game!

Unc is not better than there record suggest. Should have lost too ND, UT and wake

[richardjackson199]

...

Here's to a great game!

Here's to JasonEvans eating Duke blueberry pie, with a wheaty crust

[richardjackson199]

The "lose but show improvement, making fans more positive for March" scenario is so narrow it might as well not exist.

Nothing positive will come from a loss on Thursday.

Time for the boys to step it up.

Trouble is right. Bottom line - we want this more. Step on that court with a collective purpose and refuse to leave it without a big win. Duke basketball = more heart.

I'm already getting pumped.

[Kedsy]

I do agree Duke historically wins the title as a top seed but, then again, how often is Duke NOT a top 1/2/3 seed? not often. So there isn't much sample size of data from which to say we can't make a run as a 3 seed... Conversely, you could also say Duke historically loses in the first weekend MORE OFTEN as a top 1- 4 seed than as a 6-8 seed. I haven't looked but I bet that is a statistical fact. Because we aren't usually a 6-8 seed.. But we do lose on occasion in the first weekend as a 2-4 seed (Lehigh, Mercer etc)

What you say is true, but it's also true that in Coach K's time here, as a 6 to 8 seed we've lost in the 1st weekend 100% of the time (albeit with only two attempts).

Overall, here's what we've done at each seed:

#1: 12 times -- 4 champs (33%); 1 loss in final; 1 loss in F4 (so 50% of our #1 seeds have made the Final Four); 1 loss in E8; 5 losses in S16.
#2: 10 times -- 1 champ (10%); 1 loss in final; 2 loss in F4 (so 40% of our #2 seeds have made the Final Four); 1 loss in E8; 1 loss in S16; 3 losses in R32; 1 loss in R64 (so 40% of our #2 seeds lost in the 1st weekend).
#3: 6 times -- 1 loss in F4 (so, 17% of our #3 seeds have made the Final Four); 1 loss in S16; 3 losses in R32; 1 loss in R64 (so, 67% of our #3 seeds have lost in the first weekend).
#4: 1 time -- lost in S16.
#5: 1 time -- lost in S16.
#6: 1 time -- lost in R64.
#8: 1 time --lost in R64.

So, low sample sizes, as you suggest, but I'd rather be a #1 if we can get there.


Any other Eagles fans on DBR?

Yes.


Like many others have pointed out, there is no way to really predict how this game plays out.

Actually, you can predict it. The better ranked team in this series wins approximately the same percentage of times as the better ranked team in the Duke/Wake series and the Duke/Clemson series, and probably less than in the Duke/State series. Doesn't mean it always happens that way (in other words, you can't predict with 100% certainty), but usually the better team wins.

[Kedsy]

Overall, here's what we've done at each seed:

#1: 13 times -- 4 champs (31%); 2 losses in final; 1 loss in F4 (so 54% of our #1 seeds have made the Final Four); 1 loss in E8; 5 losses in S16.
#2: 10 times -- 1 champ (10%); 1 loss in final; 2 loss in F4 (so 40% of our #2 seeds have made the Final Four); 1 loss in E8; 1 loss in S16; 3 losses in R32; 1 loss in R64 (so 40% of our #2 seeds lost in the 1st weekend).
#3: 6 times -- 1 loss in F4 (so, 17% of our #3 seeds have made the Final Four); 1 loss in S16; 3 losses in R32; 1 loss in R64 (so, 67% of our #3 seeds have lost in the first weekend).
#4: 1 time -- lost in S16.
#5: 1 time -- lost in S16.
#6: 1 time -- lost in R64.
#8: 1 time --lost in R64.

So, low sample sizes, as you suggest, but I'd rather be a #1 if we can get there.

Sorry, I somehow missed 1986 in my summary. The above is a corrected list (with the corrections in bold).

[Kedsy]

Overall, here's what we've done at each seed:

#1: 13 times -- 4 champs (31%); 2 losses in final; 1 loss in F4 (so 54% of our #1 seeds have made the Final Four); 1 loss in E8; 5 losses in S16.
#2: 10 times -- 1 champ (10%); 1 loss in final; 2 loss in F4 (so 40% of our #2 seeds have made the Final Four); 1 loss in E8; 1 loss in S16; 3 losses in R32; 1 loss in R64 (so 40% of our #2 seeds lost in the 1st weekend).
#3: 6 times -- 1 loss in F4 (so, 17% of our #3 seeds have made the Final Four); 1 loss in S16; 3 losses in R32; 1 loss in R64 (so, 67% of our #3 seeds have lost in the first weekend).
#4: 1 time -- lost in S16.
#5: 1 time -- lost in S16.
#6: 1 time -- lost in R64.
#8: 1 time --lost in R64.

So, low sample sizes, as you suggest, but I'd rather be a #1 if we can get there.

The difference is even more pronounced if you look at our last 20 years:

#1: 11 times -- 3 champs (27%); 1 loss in final; 1 loss in F4 (so 45% of our #1 seeds in last 20 years have made the Final Four); 1 loss in E8; 5 losses in S16.
#2: 5 times -- 1 loss in E8; 1 loss in S16; 2 losses in R32; 1 loss in R64 (so 60% of our #2 seeds in last 20 years lost in the 1st weekend).
#3: 2 times -- 1 loss in S16; 1 loss in R64 (so, 50% of our #3 seeds in last 20 years have lost in the first weekend).
#4: 1 time -- lost in S16.
#6: 1 time -- lost in R64.

In the last 20 years: 56% (5 of 9) of our non-#1s have lost in the first weekend (compared to 50% (10 of 20) of our non-#1s overall); and none of our non-#1s have made the Final Four (compared to 25% (5 of 20) of our non-#1s overall).

[elvis14]

Unc is not better than there record suggest. Should have lost too ND, UT and Wake

If you watched the ND game you'll know there's one thing we will have to overcome....the refs. That ND win was handed to the Cheats and despite their known cheating they are always the darlings of the whistle. Notice that in multiple places above the Cheater fan mentions getting calls because it's going to happen. We have to play through that and rise above.

[UrinalCake]

Bagley in particular will have to watch out for a charge call, Williams and Pinson are smart about drawing charges.

What’s the over/under on blatant flops by Pinson that get called as charges? I’m going with 2.5.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

It will be very interesting to see whether Williams sticks with his most effective lineup (which has been Maye with four guards/wings) or if he is enticed to go back to a more traditional UNC lineup for fear of our bigs...


It would be really interesting to see Williams stick with his smallball lineup against us for 30+ minutes.

Yes, all this. I would say the team that forces the opponent to change how they play to match up will have a huge advantage. If Duke does what we do well and forces UNC to play an unfamiliar game, we have a great chance to win.


If you take this perspective on a season long view, it also may explain why K uses the zone sparingly. It isn't his vision of what we can do best. Rather than making adjustments to match up, get better at what gives us the best opportunity for success in March.

All the things K has changed over the years, his focus on March and banners has never wavered.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

What’s the over/under on blatant flops by Pinson that get called as charges? I’m going with 2.5.
Williams as well. He loves to stick half his body in to try to take charges.

And I’m going with 8 as the number of times the cheaters step in under our guards as they release their shots. Which is the only true innovation of the greatest cheater of them all.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

What’s the over/under on blatant flops by Pinson that get called as charges? I’m going with 2.5.

I'd say way less than the head snaps and flops expected from Grayson Allen.

[whereinthehellami]

I think Duke has a good showing and plays with the toughness that has been missing recently but this game is not just about Duke. On the Cheating side, I think Berry and Pinson do just enough, as the gritty seniors they are, to win their last home game against Duke.

I like that the Cheaters have to go to NCSU on saturday. Hopefully the Pack gives the cheats the business.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Williams as well. He loves to stick half his body in to try to take charges.

At his age, that's a huge mistake.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I'd say way less than the head snaps and flops expected from Grayson Allen.

Good thing that you don't troll and bait on this board like you do on the water, Wheat... :smiles: Granted, that was a soft lob to you on that one. We also would have accepted Wojo, Paulus, or Battier.

You mention above that you think UNC should go inside to get Carter and Bagley into foul trouble, but our big men have been pretty adept at avoiding DQs this season. I don't have the numbers or interest to go back and check box scores, but I'd be surprised if the two of them together have four foul outs all season.

I'd say UNC's best chance at beating Duke from the offensive end is going inside, but just because we've been, um, bad at defensive switches underneath. If I had a nickel for every time I've seen someone get past Carter about eight feet from the basket and the nearest help defense is ten feet away, I'd have myself a tidy little pile of nickels. If UNC hits shots early from 15+ feet and makes Duke extend our defense, our recovery on drive and/or drive and dish has been poor.

On the other hand, if K has finally reached our fellas about communication and spacing on defense, I encourage you to please try and bring the ball inside. If our big guys collapse on you and avoid the foul, we ought to have an interior rebounding advantage against your guys for the first time in ages. That adds up to quick possessions on the other end, much like your teams like to feed on.

One of my favorite games to play when UNC is on television is to see how long it takes one of the announcers to use some variation of the phrase "UNC is BEST when they are in transition." Well, duh. Most teams are "best" when charging down the court with a numbers advantage and the other team is trying to backpedal and guess which direction the ball is going to go. I know that they are intending to showcase that UNC is excellent in GETTING into transition quickly (you've had a nice streak of good outlet passers, Meeks and Maye most recently), and that's hard to argue with.

At any rate Wheat, good luck on Thursday. I hope we pound you into a bloody pulp of submission.

No offense, of course.

No defense, either.

Let's Go Duke!

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I'd say way less than the head snaps and flops expected from Grayson Allen.
Uh huh...

https://mobile.twitter.com/kylebooneCBS/status/934984325682073600/photo/1 (https://mobile.twitter.com/kylebooneCBS/status/934984325682073600/photo/1)

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Uh huh...

https://mobile.twitter.com/kylebooneCBS/status/934984325682073600/photo/1 (https://mobile.twitter.com/kylebooneCBS/status/934984325682073600/photo/1)

To be fair, a large object like an elbow moving at a high rate of speed is going to cause substantial air displacement. The elbow wouldn't necessarily have to make contact with the player's forehead to cause a serious case of whiplash. Sort of like how you can get caught in the wake of a boat.

:rolleyes:

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

To be fair, a large object like an elbow moving at a high rate of speed is going to cause substantial air displacement. The elbow wouldn't necessarily have to make contact with the player's forehead to cause a serious case of whiplash. Sort of like how you can get caught in the wake of a boat.

:rolleyes:
Which must be the reason for the delayed reaction... the wake turbulence produced by the speed of the arm movement took an extra moment to catch up with Pinson’s head.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Which must be the reason for the delayed reaction... the wake turbulence produced by the speed of the arm movement took an extra moment to catch up with Pinson’s head.

I'm sure a fine scholar at UNC could provide us with the explanation, replete with diagrams and formulas.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I'm sure a fine scholar at UNC could provide us with the explanation, replete with diagrams and formulas.
I’m confident they could do so... if they could convince a State engineer to take their money to do the work for them.

[thedukelamere]

I'm sure a fine scholar at UNC could provide us with the explanation, replete with diagrams and formulas.

8058

Woops! Wrong powerpoint slide... I'm sure those diagrams are around here somewhere...

[OldPhiKap]

First Duke-UNC game I will neither watch nor tape since 1984. 9F 'em.

[Owen Meany]

I'd say way less than the head snaps and flops expected from Grayson Allen.

Amazing that you always feel the need to share your thoughts on Grayson on a Duke board, but for some reason stay completely mum on the actions of UNC players (actually, on the actions of the entire corrupt UNC program). Many people come here to read about the Duke team and don't care to hear your consistent shots at the Duke program. But, if you are so irritated that you feel the need to call out Allen for exaggerating contact then you surely must feel the need to publicly call out Pinson when he pretends to take an elbow when he isn't even touched, falls to the ground pretending to be hurt, and stays on the ground in "pain" so long that play has to be stopped. It wasn't a quick, knee-jerk reaction by Pinson. It was an ongoing, extended attempt to stop play and have the other team unfairly penalized when he was not even touched. And Williams put Pinson right back in - so he's clearly complicit too because had he believed Pinson he would have been examined a little more closely for a possible concussion.


But by all means, continue to police Duke fans and players on a Duke board while ignoring the much more egregious actions of your own team/program. The hypocrisy is breathtaking - but that's The Carolina Way.


Again, all of this was said all in fun.

[gofurman]

Good thing that you don't troll and bait on this board like you do on the water, Wheat... :smiles: Granted, that was a soft lob to you on that one. We also would have accepted Wojo, Paulus, or Battier.

You mention above that you think UNC should go inside to get Carter and Bagley into foul trouble, but our big men have been pretty adept at avoiding DQs this season. I don't have the numbers or interest to go back and check box scores, but I'd be surprised if the two of them together have four foul outs all season.

I'd say UNC's best chance at beating Duke from the offensive end is going inside, but just because we've been, um, bad at defensive switches underneath. If I had a nickel for every time I've seen someone get past Carter about eight feet from the basket and the nearest help defense is ten feet away, I'd have myself a tidy little pile of nickels. If UNC hits shots early from 15+ feet and makes Duke extend our defense, our recovery on drive and/or drive and dish has been poor.

On the other hand, if K has finally reached our fellas about communication and spacing on defense, I encourage you to please try and bring the ball inside. If our big guys collapse on you and avoid the foul, we ought to have an interior rebounding advantage against your guys for the first time in ages. That adds up to quick possessions on the other end, much like your teams like to feed on.

One of my favorite games to play when UNC is on television is to see how long it takes one of the announcers to use some variation of the phrase "UNC is BEST when they are in transition." Well, duh. Most teams are "best" when charging down the court with a numbers advantage and the other team is trying to backpedal and guess which direction the ball is going to go. I know that they are intending to showcase that UNC is excellent in GETTING into transition quickly (you've had a nice streak of good outlet passers, Meeks and Maye most recently), and that's hard to argue with.

At any rate Wheat, good luck on Thursday. I hope we pound you into a bloody pulp of submission.

No offense, of course.

No defense, either.

Let's Go Duke!

actually Carter has gotten' in foul trouble several time i think.. maybe not a DQ but held out several minutes to avoid getting his 5th.. and Bagley had that happen this last game though he seems able to stay out of foul trouble in general. Am I right in that Carter has had foul trouble at times?

[gofurman]

Sorry, I somehow missed 1986 in my summary. The above is a corrected list (with the corrections in bold).

thanks for the numbers on how Duke performs as each seed. Several people will say 'it isn't much harder to beat a 15 than a 16' and they are right.. and a 7 or 8 is more about matchups than talent.. what is key (and drives the numbers you provided) is not the opponent but how good DUKE is as a 1 seed vs a 2 or 3 seed... Duke as a 2 seed is often a Parker/Hood team. A 1 seed Duke is Jay Williams and Elton Brand and Battier. - its about Duke as well as the opponent

[gofurman]

What you say is true, but it's also true that in Coach K's time here, as a 6 to 8 seed we've lost in the 1st weekend 100% of the time (albeit with only two attempts).

Overall, here's what we've done at each seed:

#1: 12 times -- 4 champs (33%); 1 loss in final; 1 loss in F4 (so 50% of our #1 seeds have made the Final Four); 1 loss in E8; 5 losses in S16.
#2: 10 times -- 1 champ (10%); 1 loss in final; 2 loss in F4 (so 40% of our #2 seeds have made the Final Four); 1 loss in E8; 1 loss in S16; 3 losses in R32; 1 loss in R64 (so 40% of our #2 seeds lost in the 1st weekend).
#3: 6 times -- 1 loss in F4 (so, 17% of our #3 seeds have made the Final Four); 1 loss in S16; 3 losses in R32; 1 loss in R64 (so, 67% of our #3 seeds have lost in the first weekend).
#4: 1 time -- lost in S16.
#5: 1 time -- lost in S16.
#6: 1 time -- lost in R64.
#8: 1 time --lost in R64.

So, low sample sizes, as you suggest, but I'd rather be a #1 if we can get there.
.

agreed

[Kfanarmy]

There was a recent game (UNC at Clemson?) where they ran almost exclusively PNR with Berry down the stretch of the game, but typically UNC isn't a heavy PNR team. Actually, in recent history, UVA and UNC are the two ACC teams against whom we get a reprieve from playing PNR defense. They both just run their stuff. UVA's uses a barrage of (illegal, moving) off-ball screens to free perimeter scorers, and UNC tries to post us up and throw in a down screen here and there for Justin Jackson to pop out up top for three.

With UNC's personnel being atypical for them this season, we'll just have to wait and see how they attack Duke. It probably does behoove them to test our PNR defense, and we probably would switch a Berry/Maye pick-and-pop. They should also set off-ball screens to try to free their shooters. We weren't able to guard UVA's off-ball screens very well, although I hope we'll be improved in this game.

If I were Duke, I would want UNC to play Sterling Manley a lot and try to post him up. While he looks like a good, young big man, that's probably the least concerning of their options.

fixed that for you. Hope you don't mind.

[UrinalCake]

Carter has been in foul trouble more often than Bagley, but I feel like he's made improvements as the season has progressed and is much better at staying straight up and defending without fouling. Getting them in foul trouble would obviously be nice for UNC, but I don't think they have the personnel to do it. Also Bolden looked good against St. John's and hopefully Javin is getting closer to full health which would give us some more bodies.

Also with regards to the "fake head snap," that's not just a Duke thing. Players everywhere do it. I've seen NBA players do it and yes, even UNC players. I know that UNC fans like to think that Tyus Jones invented this and Grayson is now carrying the torch, but it's a pretty common way to garner attention from the refs, not unlike pointing in your direction after a ball goes out of bounds (which I think is dumb).

[flyingdutchdevil]

Carter has been in foul trouble more often than Bagley, but I feel like he's made improvements as the season has progressed and is much better at staying straight up and defending without fouling. Getting them in foul trouble would obviously be nice for UNC, but I don't think they have the personnel to do it. Also Bolden looked good against St. John's and hopefully Javin is getting closer to full health which would give us some more bodies.

Also with regards to the "fake head snap," that's not just a Duke thing. Players everywhere do it. I've seen NBA players do it and yes, even UNC players. I know that UNC fans like to think that Tyus Jones invented this and Grayson is now carrying the torch, but it's a pretty common way to garner attention from the refs, not unlike pointing in your direction after a ball goes out of bounds (which I think is dumb).

IIRC, Grayson was a master of this his sophomore year, but it hasn't really worked that well during his junior and senior years. Actually, he's kinda gotten rid of it this year until the last few games when it made a reappearance. I don't really care about it; sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. But refs are clearly not putting any equity into the head snap anymore.

[devildeac]

A few more O/U wagers that might be fun:

1. Number of times Grayson gets hit in the head/face on drives/shots without a foul being called.
2. Number of times Carter and/or Bagley get hammered over the top from the side/behind without the benefit of a foul.
3. Same as #2 except shoved from behind/forced OOB without a whistle.
4. Number of times phantom OOB calls are made (or ignored) with a ref standing within 2-3 feet of the play (kennedy, cough, meeks).
5. How many steps berry/pinson are allowed before a travel is called (if at all).

Carry on. Go Devils!

9F 'em.

[DukieInBrasil]

actually Carter has gotten' in foul trouble several time i think.. maybe not a DQ but held out several minutes to avoid getting his 5th.. and Bagley had that happen this last game though he seems able to stay out of foul trouble in general. Am I right in that Carter has had foul trouble at times?


A few more O/U wagers that might be fun:

1. Number of times Grayson gets hit in the head/face on drives/shots without a foul being called.
2. Number of times Carter and/or Bagley get hammered over the top from the side/behind without the benefit of a foul.
3. Same as #2 except shoved from behind/forced OOB without a whistle.
4. Number of times phantom OOB calls are made (or ignored) with a ref standing within 2-3 feet of the play (kennedy, cough, meeks).
5. How many steps berry/pinson are allowed before a travel is called (if at all).

Carry on. Go Devils!

9F 'em.

1. 1, although it will happen twice and get called once.
2. combined, 12 times
3. combined, 6 times
4. somehow, this won't happen in this game - 0
5. total for the whole game between the two, they will take an additional 63 steps, they might as well not even dribble
:cool:;):confused::cool:
and 9f9f9f9f9f9f9f9f9f9f9f9f9f9f9f

[Troublemaker]

UNC's defense is 288th in the country at forcing turnovers (and 12th in the conference when considering ACC games only).

If Duke can't protect the ball against the Heels, then I actually will become sort of negative about our prospects going forward. And if Duke CAN avoid turnovers against UNC, it'll be very tough for them to stop us.

I think we can even run stagnant postups (the ones where we don't move the post defender beforehand with some other action, like a ball screen) and get away with it against UNC. They'll double and we'll find open shooters. Although I highly recommend we try to run non-stagnant postups and just make that a habit going forward.

[PackMan97]

Again, all of this was said all in fun.

It's always fun to remind Tarheels of what they have become :)

Good luck tomorrow!

[Natty_B]

Unc is not better than there record suggest. Should have lost too ND, UT and wake

I LOVED that this was the first response to the unc is better than their record comment (which is SUCH a unc fan thing to say). I mean c'mon the ball, on a last second game winning shot, in the Notre Dame game literally bounced on the rim 4 times before somehow not going through the hoop.

[Kedsy]

I don't have the numbers or interest to go back and check box scores, but I'd be surprised if the two of them together have four foul outs all season.

You will not be surprised. Marvin has fouled out of one game this season (Southern). Wendell has fouled out of two (Indiana and Wake I).

Wendell has had four fouls in 9 games, however. Marvin has had four fouls in 4 games.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

You will not be surprised. Marvin has fouled out of one game this season (Southern). Wendell has fouled out of two (Indiana and Wake I).

Wendell has had four fouls in 9 games, however. Marvin has had four fouls in 4 games.

Sporks for doing the legwork.

[CDu]

actually Carter has gotten' in foul trouble several time i think.. maybe not a DQ but held out several minutes to avoid getting his 5th.. and Bagley had that happen this last game though he seems able to stay out of foul trouble in general. Am I right in that Carter has had foul trouble at times?

Carter has certainly gotten into foul trouble. As has Bagley. You don't have to foul out to be in foul trouble.

Carter had foul trouble resulting in reduced minutes (or fouled out altogether) in the following games:
vs MSU, vs UF, @Indiana (fouled out), vs South Dakota (2 fouls in first ~10 minutes sent him to the bench), @NC State, @Pitt, vs Wake (fouled out), vs Notre Dame

He had 4 fouls against Texas St Francis, and St John's too, but those fouls came later and his minutes weren't limited as such.

Bagley has had less of an issue with this. His minutes have only been limited (and only somewhat at that) due to fouls against Wake and St John's.

[TNTDevil]

Please beat the Cheaters senseless. Beat them by 30 in the first half, and then another 30 in the second. Break all of their ankles (basketball wise), crush their spirits and then do it again to the walk-ons when Roy abandons them on the court! Show no mercy. Sweep the leg. Bar the arm. Lock the head. Give them a wedgie and then a swirlie. Make them cry uncle and then cry for their mommies.

That's my way of saying, good luck and I hope the good guys win this one."Crush UNC, drive dem before you and listen to the lamenations of der vimon!

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Carter has been in foul trouble more often than Bagley, but I feel like he's made improvements as the season has progressed and is much better at staying straight up and defending without fouling. Getting them in foul trouble would obviously be nice for UNC, but I don't think they have the personnel to do it. Also Bolden looked good against St. John's and hopefully Javin is getting closer to full health which would give us some more bodies.

Also with regards to the "fake head snap," that's not just a Duke thing. Players everywhere do it. I've seen NBA players do it and yes, even UNC players. I know that UNC fans like to think that Tyus Jones invented this and Grayson is now carrying the torch, but it's a pretty common way to garner attention from the refs, not unlike pointing in your direction after a ball goes out of bounds (which I think is dumb).

You're right, all players do it...some more demonstrative than others.

UNC can't come out with that probing, deliberate effort we've seen all too often this year. They need to be aggressive. If they are, I think foul troubles for Duke could play a big role.

[CDu]

You're right, all players do it...some more demonstrative than others.

UNC can't come out with that probing, deliberate effort we've seen all too often this year. They need to be aggressive. If they are, I think foul troubles for Duke could play a big role.

Same works the other way. If Maye, Pinson, or Johnson gets in foul trouble, UNC will have a really tough time of it against our frontcourt.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

You're right, all players do it...some more demonstrative than others.

UNC can't come out with that probing, deliberate effort we've seen all too often this year. They need to be aggressive. If they are, I think foul troubles for Duke could play a big role.

I would wager that if both teams come out of the gate aggressive on offense, Duke scores more points.

[Troublemaker]

You're right, all players do it...some more demonstrative than others.

UNC can't come out with that probing, deliberate effort we've seen all too often this year. They need to be aggressive. If they are, I think foul troubles for Duke could play a big role.

I mean, basketball is random enough where anything can happen. HOWEVER, I'm not going to spend a single second pre-game worrying that a team that is one of the worst in the country at generating foul trouble (UNC, ranking 258th in offensive free throw rate) will get into foul trouble one of the best teams in the country at avoiding foul trouble (Duke, ranking 7th in the country in defensive free throw rate).

[gofurman]

Carter has certainly gotten into foul trouble. As has Bagley. You don't have to foul out to be in foul trouble.

Carter had foul trouble resulting in reduced minutes (or fouled out altogether) in the following games:
vs MSU, vs UF, @Indiana (fouled out), vs South Dakota (2 fouls in first ~10 minutes sent him to the bench), @NC State, @Pitt, vs Wake (fouled out), vs Notre Dame

He had 4 fouls against Texas St Francis, and St John's too, but those fouls came later and his minutes weren't limited as such.

Bagley has had less of an issue with this. His minutes have only been limited (and only somewhat at that) due to fouls against Wake and St John's.

right. Looking at DQs is a somewhat superficial way of viewing things. If you had to be taken out and lost minutes bc of 3-4 fouls thats a hurt. Losing 10 minutes of Carter is a loss. Plus playin' w 4 fouls is often a big loss.. the player plays not to foul and other team gets several easy baskets

[DukeFanSince1990]

https://twitter.com/marilyn_payne/status/960955576279879680

A shot by Roy? Not sure. But I did give a shot to a UNC commentator in the reply's.

[flyingdutchdevil]

https://twitter.com/marilyn_payne/status/960955576279879680

heh.

Ah...the power of marketing. #nikeisgoodatcatchyslogans

[devildeac]

https://twitter.com/marilyn_payne/status/960955576279879680

A shot by Roy? Not sure. But I did give a shot to a UNC commentator in the reply's.

"Roy Williams asked if there’s enough room for #Duke’s Brotherhood & the #UNC family..
“They stoke it. But they’re intelligent, they gave it a new name. I was quoted once as using ‘Brotherhood,’ but I didn’t. I always use the word ‘Family.’”


Family? Another "invention" from the dean's myth center.

9F 'em.

[Lar77]

right. Looking at DQs is a somewhat superficial way of viewing things. If you had to be taken out and lost minutes bc of 3-4 fouls thats a hurt. Losing 10 minutes of Carter is a loss. Plus playin' w 4 fouls is often a big loss.. the player plays not to foul and other team gets several easy baskets

True. Or 2-3 fouls in the first half. Anything that gets a guy off the floor or backing off on defense. Early on, we had a number of reach in fouls because guys would use their hands instead of their feet (i.e., positioning). We've gotten better at it, but still manage a few "what were you thinking" every game.

I don't see fouls being an issue on Thursday. They seem to shoot much better at home than away (no statistics to back this up, and it's a "duh") and have 4 guys who can light it up. We need to defend well on the outside, hustle on defensive rebounds, and cut down on unforced errors.

I hope our guys give 40 minutes of effort on both ends.

[thedukelamere]

Family? Another "invention" from the dean's myth center.

My dad would have known if I had systematically cheated over the course of 2 decades, so maybe Roy/Dean's family is different than mine? :confused:

[devildeac]

My dad would have known if I had systematically cheated over the course of 2 decades, so maybe Roy/Dean's family is different than mine? :confused:

The c*rolina way...

:rolleyes:

[jv001]

"Roy Williams asked if there’s enough room for #Duke’s Brotherhood & the #UNC family..
“They stoke it. But they’re intelligent, they gave it a new name. I was quoted once as using ‘Brotherhood,’ but I didn’t. I always use the word ‘Family.’”


Family? Another "invention" from the dean's myth center.

9F 'em.

Old Roy got the intelligent part right. Something the student athlete knows nothing about at Cheat Hill. The Family or Carolina Way. Look for the refs to take over and make it a close game. GoDuke!

[TruBlu]

Predictions:

1) Committed fouls will be about even, with unc committing about 20% more fouls.

2) Duke will actually be CALLED for approximately 50% more fouls. (ACC refs, you know)

3) unc will make 90% of their 20 free throws. Duke will make 60% of their 10 free throws.

4) Duke will win in spite of #’s 1, 2, 3.

5) GTHC

6) GTH ACC refs

7) GTH ncaa, for not hammering those cheating SOB’s

And by the way, GTHC, GTH

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Hope I can talk a little trash too without being banned...because for all the beer talk I see on the board, who would have thought there were so many whine connoisseurs here? :)

[devildeac]

Hope I can talk a little trash too without being banned...because for all the beer talk I see on the board, who would have thought there were so many whine connoisseurs here? :)

It's a fine line. A very, fine, thin line.

We learned from the masters, yet another "invention" from the dean's myth center (well, Sam Cassell really said it :o)

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/unc-now/article121064213.html

“This is not a Duke kind of crowd,” Cassell said. “It’s more like a cheese and wine crowd, kind of laid back.”

[DukieInBrasil]

i really find it comical that the traditional roles of these teams is reversed. Duke now has the double post presence, while UNC has the plethora of 3pt shooters. However, the rebounding issue, as mentioned in the podcast, must go Duke's way for the good guys, particularly if UNC hits lots of 3s. However, if Gary Trent Jr and Grayson can hit ~45% between them, with a few 3s sprinkled in from AOC, Bagley, Carter, and/or Duval, i think Duke and UNC will cancel each other out on that front.
UNC is now a 3-pronged attack on offense: Maye, Berry and Johnson, so the defensive game plan to keep those guys in check while not letting some other rando light it up will go a long way towards securing the win.
These are the matchups i think Duke will try to get:
Duval vs Berry: I think Berry will win this matchup on the stat sheet, plus Berry has the intangibles advantage.
Allen vs : Williams: Allen ought to win this matchup + intangibles, but his up and down production lately leaves this one as a huge ?
Trent vs Johnson: Though Trent gives up a bit of height to Cam, but i wouldn't want Bagley chasing CJ around the perimeter. Both can light it up from deep. Toss-up.
Bagley vs Pinson: Pinson is a terrible shooter, so Bagley can play off him and shut down his drives which is where a lot of Theo's assists come from. If Pinson gets hot, this could go south for Duke. Theo will not be able to handle Bagley in the paint. Ad: Duke.
Carter vs Maye: Maye has been a revelation this year, just unbelievable how much better he is this year than i thought he could ever, ever be. That said, Carter will destroy Maye if Luke tries to play an inside game. However, Luke is shooting great from 3, so it doesn't seem likely that Luke will focus exclusively on the paint. Carter can also shoot the 3, but probably won't take more than a couple, but if he forces Luke to come out and guard him Wendell has shown the ability to drive. Hopefully Wendell gets Luke to commit a handsy foul or two, to help the cause. Wouldn't be surprised to see both earn double doubles. Toss-up.

I expect that UNC might want to force Duke off those matchups. The Trent and Bagley matchups could easily get switched, and maybe give UNC a bit of an edge by doing so...

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

It's a fine line. A very, fine, thin line.

We learned from the masters, yet another "invention" from the dean's myth center (well, Sam Cassell really said it :o)

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/unc-now/article121064213.html

“This is not a Duke kind of crowd,” Cassell said. “It’s more like a cheese and wine crowd, kind of laid back.”

I have enough confidence in Wheat to assume this is what he was referring to.

If we collect offensive rebounds as we can and should, we limit the fast break attempts and win big.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I have enough confidence in Wheat to assume this is what he was referring to.

If we collect offensive rebounds as we can and should, we limit the fast break attempts and win big.

I was referring to complaints about the refs before the game is even played....

[uh_no]

I was referring to complaints about the refs before the game is even played...

should we restrict our complaining about the refs to just after the game? por que no los dos???? :D

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Watching the 2005 Cheats vs Duke in Cameron on ESPNC... can’t wait to see how it turns out!

[ChillinDuke]

https://twitter.com/marilyn_payne/status/960955576279879680

A shot by Roy? Not sure. But I did give a shot to a UNC commentator in the reply's.

He's so stupid. It really is incredible.

- Chillin

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Watching the 2005 Cheats vs Duke in Cameron on ESPNC... can’t wait to see how it turns out!
We won! :cool:

God bless RRRAY-mund FELLL-tun.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I was referring to complaints about the refs before the game is even played...

Then I suppose I retract my confidence. Oh well.

[duketaylor]

Dan Dakich just said Duke/unc is not the best college hoops rivalry, it's behind UK/Louisville AND IU/Purdue. Sheesh, give me a break, he's clueless!!
He's obviously not been involved in many of these games.

[CDu]

Dan Dakich just said Duke/unc is not the best college hoops rivalry, it's behind UK/Louisville AND IU/Purdue. Sheesh, give me a break, he's clueless!!
He's obviously not been involved in many of these games.

He is a Midwest guy. No surprise. Rivalries are rivalries. They matters most to those involved in them.

Also, I think it is fair to say he has been involved in more than a few IU/Purdue games.

[UrinalCake]

Sounds like there’s a chance Seventh Woods returns for this game. Not sure how much he’ll be able to provide after such a long absence (and he wasn’t providing much to begin with) but at least that gives them a backup point guard instead of having to turn to Pinson.

[BobBender]

Duke has more talent- UNC has more experience- game is usually close- Maye is sneaky good and a handful if left open, Pinson's and Berry's last Duke game at home- both will play well, X-factor's will be Cam Johnson and Bolden, Duke will face a double digit deficit at some point- Duke will roar back late- will come down to free throws and some crazy shots.

It's all about stopping Joel Berry. Duke's bigs are so much more talented than UNC's, including Luke Maye. Somebody ( Grayson?) has to sacrifice his O to clamp down on JB3 and this should yield a big rivalry win. C'mon guys, ultimately defense is about effort.

[Kedsy]

Sounds like there’s a chance Seventh Woods returns for this game. Not sure how much he’ll be able to provide after such a long absence (and he wasn’t providing much to begin with) but at least that gives them a backup point guard instead of having to turn to Pinson.

The more Seventh Woods we get, the better. This is a guy whose career oRtg is 78.3, whose career eFG% is 31.3% (career trueSh% is 38.5%), career TO% is 31.7%, and whose career PER is 7.4. He can play a little defense, but this guy is not a good college player.

[cato]

He is a Midwest guy. No surprise. Rivalries are rivalries. They matters most to those involved in them.

Also, I think it is fair to say he has been involved in more than a few IU/Purdue games.

The thing that really sets Duke/UNC is how consistently great both programs have been (with a few off spells for Duke, pre-K), and how close the teams have played each other for more than a generation.

Well that, and it’s Duke Carolina!

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Dan Dakich just said Duke/unc is not the best college hoops rivalry, it's behind UK/Louisville AND IU/Purdue. Sheesh, give me a break, he's clueless!!
He's obviously not been involved in many of these games.
I no longer consider Duke v Cheaters a rivalry. Rivalry implies some degree of respect. To me it’s now nothing more than an annual grudge match.

[Lunchab1es]

Following the disappointing outing to NYC, Coach K surprises the team at the Dean Dump by revealing just before tip that the players will not have the privilege of wearing their normal uniforms - and will instead play in their practice jerseys. The fire is lit. The hounds of war are unleashed.

Bagley sets and NCAA record for dunks in a season, in a single game. Carter blocks so many shots the ball deflates and it has to be replaced, twice. Grayson puts up a modest 40. UNC puts on a mini run at the end of the 1st half, giving just enough hope to keep the fans in the stands for the second half, which turns out to be a big mistake as Duke wins by such a large margin that the NCAA adds a few extra losses to UNC's record. After the stadium empties, the Dome spontaneously catches fire and burns to the ground. A cargo plane transporting salt into RDU accidentally drops its entire load over Chapel Hill. Carolina is so demoralized they lose every game for the rest of the season and miss the Tournament, and are subsequently reclassified as a D2 school, and forfeit all wins as Hanstravel releases a "tell all" book detailing the scandal with incontrovertible evidence. Proceeds from the book go towards giving their athletes a real degree.

The game goes down in legend as "The Practice Jersey Game."

The end.

[DukieInBrasil]

Sounds like there’s a chance Seventh Woods returns for this game. Not sure how much he’ll be able to provide after such a long absence (and he wasn’t providing much to begin with) but at least that gives them a backup point guard instead of having to turn to Pinson.

I agree with Kedsy, the more 7th Woods we get, the better. Pinson is leading UNC in assists, so he's a pretty decent guy to turn to for backup PG duties, even though he's not getting assists as a "PG". He's just a much better player than Woods. The best thing Woods gives them is 5 extra fouls, and maybe a minute or two here and there of rest for better players.


Following the disappointing outing to NYC, Coach K surprises the team at the Dean Dump by revealing just before tip that the players will not have the privilege of wearing their normal uniforms - and will instead play in their practice jerseys. The fire is lit. The hounds of war are unleashed.
Bagley sets and NCAA record for dunks in a season, in a single game. Carter blocks so many shots the ball deflates and it has to be replaced, twice. Grayson puts up a modest 40. UNC puts on a mini run at the end of the 1st half, giving just enough hope to keep the fans in the stands for the second half, which turns out to be a big mistake as Duke wins by such a large margin that the NCAA adds a few extra losses to UNC's record. After the stadium empties, the Dome spontaneously catches fire and burns to the ground. A cargo plane transporting salt into RDU accidentally drops its entire load over Chapel Hill. Carolina is so demoralized they lose every game for the rest of the season and miss the Tournament, and are subsequently reclassified as a D2 school, and forfeit all wins as Hanstravel releases a "tell all" book detailing the scandal with incontrovertible evidence. Proceeds from the book go towards giving their athletes a real degree.
The game goes down in legend as "The Practice Jersey Game."
The end.

I'll have 2 of what you had.

[jcannon]

Following the disappointing outing to NYC, Coach K surprises the team at the Dean Dump by revealing just before tip that the players will not have the privilege of wearing their normal uniforms - and will instead play in their practice jerseys. The fire is lit. The hounds of war are unleashed.

Bagley sets and NCAA record for dunks in a season, in a single game. Carter blocks so many shots the ball deflates and it has to be replaced, twice. Grayson puts up a modest 40. UNC puts on a mini run at the end of the 1st half, giving just enough hope to keep the fans in the stands for the second half, which turns out to be a big mistake as Duke wins by such a large margin that the NCAA adds a few extra losses to UNC's record. After the stadium empties, the Dome spontaneously catches fire and burns to the ground. A cargo plane transporting salt into RDU accidentally drops its entire load over Chapel Hill. Carolina is so demoralized they lose every game for the rest of the season and miss the Tournament, and are subsequently reclassified as a D2 school, and forfeit all wins as Hanstravel releases a "tell all" book detailing the scandal with incontrovertible evidence. Proceeds from the book go towards giving their athletes a real degree.

The game goes down in legend as "The Practice Jersey Game."

The end.

As long as the practice jerseys aren’t black, I like our chances.

[Troublemaker]

Warning: nerd stuff to follow, which will only appeal to like 5 people.

As a kenpom subscriber, something I just noticed about UNC. First, some background. Kenpom has something called "Defensive Fingerprint," which is an algorithm he uses that takes a team's defensive stats and predicts what kind of defense they play. "Defensive Fingerprint" is generally very accurate in its prediction. Syracuse is a "Mostly Zone" team, UVA is a "Mostly Man" team, and Duke is "Inconclusive" this season (because we've played more zone this season than any season prior, and this must show up in the stats somehow). Duke being "Inconclusive" means that "Defensive Fingerprint" is very cautious about labeling a team as Man or Zone.

And yet! What is UNC's "defensive fingerprint" this season? "Mostly Zone." Hahahahaha! If you haven't seen UNC play this season, they are still a "Mostly Man" team. What is it that is tricking kenpom's very accurate, very cautious algorithm such that this is the worst mistake that I've ever seen it make in labeling a defense? I have to think it is UNC's awful 3-pt defense. They are 325th in the country in giving up 3-pt attempts, and opponents shoot them at a 38.2% clip, good for 313th in the country. Thus UNC has hacked "Defensive Fingerprint" and caused it to turn a "Mostly Man" team into "Mostly Zone."

Gosh, I sure hope Gary and Grayson can hit their shots on Thursday. Because they will get them.

[CDu]

Warning: nerd stuff to follow, which will only appeal to like 5 people.

As a kenpom subscriber, something I just noticed about UNC. First, some background. Kenpom has something called "Defensive Fingerprint," which is an algorithm he uses that takes a team's defensive stats and predicts what kind of defense they play. "Defensive Fingerprint" is generally very accurate in its prediction. Syracuse is a "Mostly Zone" team, UVA is a "Mostly Man" team, and Duke is "Inconclusive" this season (because we've played more zone this season than any season prior, and this must show up in the stats somehow). Duke being "Inconclusive" means that "Defensive Fingerprint" is very cautious about labeling a team as Man or Zone.

And yet! What is UNC's "defensive fingerprint" this season? "Mostly Zone." Hahahahaha! If you haven't seen UNC play this season, they are still a "Mostly Man" team. What is it that is tricking kenpom's very accurate, very cautious algorithm such that this is the worst mistake that I've ever seen it make in labeling a defense? I have to think it is UNC's awful 3-pt defense. They are 325th in the country in giving up 3-pt attempts, and opponents shoot them at a 38.2% clip, good for 313th in the country. Thus UNC has hacked "Defensive Fingerprint" and caused it to turn a "Mostly Man" team into "Mostly Zone."

Gosh, I sure hope Gary and Grayson can hit their shots on Thursday. Because they will get them.

Probably helps that they also have low foul rates.

[4Gen]

Sounds like there’s a chance Seventh Woods returns for this game. Not sure how much he’ll be able to provide after such a long absence (and he wasn’t providing much to begin with) but at least that gives them a backup point guard instead of having to turn to Pinson.

But can 7 (with apologies to George Constanza) cover five star Jalek's 2.9 ppg and 1.1 turnovers per game?

[CDu]

Woods' availability will be a big boost to the Heels defense. It means they won't have to run Berry's legs off for 35+ minutes while playing at the breakneck pace that this game should have. That should make them a bit more effective on that end. Also, Woods is one of their better guards at forcing turnovers. That said, he's been an awful shooter throughout his career. So if Berry gets in foul trouble, it's still a big problem for UNC.

[Troublemaker]

I haven't watched it yet but here's Coach K's pre-UNC presser: http://www.wralsportsfan.com/duke/video/17320439/

24 minutes of material apparently

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Woods' availability will be a big boost to the Heels defense. It means they won't have to run Berry's legs off for 35+ minutes while playing at the breakneck pace that this game should have. That should make them a bit more effective on that end. Also, Woods is one of their better guards at forcing turnovers. That said, he's been an awful shooter throughout his career. So if Berry gets in foul trouble, it's still a big problem for UNC.

Woods is quick and has the ability to attack the rim off the dribble, which I expect to see often from UNC tomorrow night. Having him available is a nice plus for UNC. It's always good to have ballhandlers and some experience out there in big games.

The more I think about the game, the more I think we may see plenty of Manley inside along with Maye,...more than we have the past few games with him.

Again, I think UNC is going to go right at Carter and Bagley inside, and once Manley makes the catch, he's a load. Early in the season he was getting sped up by the defense, as freshmen do facing better athletes in college, but lately he's better at taking it strong to the basket and making his moves quickly and with confidence. He's a true old school big with excellent hands. If he catches it close to the rim, he can finish with multiple moves.

The downside is UNC has not been particularly good at feeding him the ball in good position this season.

[Ian]

I haven't watched it yet but here's Coach K's pre-UNC presser: http://www.wralsportsfan.com/duke/video/17320439/

24 minutes of material apparently

K mentions that 6 different times he drew a play during a time out in the St John's game, and none of them were actually ran by the players out of the time out. Hopefully that never happens again.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

The more Seventh Woods we get, the better. This is a guy whose career oRtg is 78.3, whose career eFG% is 31.3% (career trueSh% is 38.5%), career TO% is 31.7%, and whose career PER is 7.4. He can play a little defense, but this guy is not a good college player.

The guy has played injured his entire carreer to this point, and has two full seasons to go. I'd say it's too early to say he's not a good college player.

[CDu]

The guy has played injured his entire carreer to this point, and has two full seasons to go. I'd say it's too early to say he's not a good college player.

He wasn’t injured last year, and he wasn’t injured to start this year (and hasn’t played since the injury). To this point, he has not been a good college player. He may eventually get there. Maybe as soon as this year, though I doubt it. But I think it is absolutely fair to say that, to this point in his career, he is not a very good college player.

[dukelifer]

K mentions that 6 different times he drew a play during a time out in the St John's game, and none of them were actually ran by the players out of the time out. Hopefully that never happens again.

After the 4th time he should have realized something wasn’t working.

[pfrduke]

Woods is quick and has the ability to attack the rim off the dribble, which I expect to see often from UNC tomorrow night. Having him available is a nice plus for UNC. It's always good to have ballhandlers and some experience out there in big games.

The more I think about the game, the more I think we may see plenty of Manley inside along with Maye,...more than we have the past few games with him.

Again, I think UNC is going to go right at Carter and Bagley inside, and once Manley makes the catch, he's a load. Early in the season he was getting sped up by the defense, as freshmen do facing better athletes in college, but lately he's better at taking it strong to the basket and making his moves quickly and with confidence. He's a true old school big with excellent hands. If he catches it close to the rim, he can finish with multiple moves.

The downside is UNC has not been particularly good at feeding him the ball in good position this season.

I am fully supportive of UNC making "feed Sterling Manley the ball" their offensive strategy for this game.

[CDu]

I am fully supportive of UNC making "feed Sterling Manley the ball" their offensive strategy for this game.

I agree. Any strategy that involves more Manley and less Berry/Maye/Johnson from 3 is to our advantage.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I agree. Any strategy that involves more Manley and less Berry/Maye/Johnson from 3 is to our advantage.

We live in strange times. UNC's best chance for victory is their surfeit of outside shooters. Duke need to control the boards and own the paint.

Am I taking crazy pills?

[Wheat/"/"/"]

He wasn’t injured last year, and he wasn’t injured to start this year (and hasn’t played since the injury). To this point, he has not been a good college player. He may eventually get there. Maybe as soon as this year, though I doubt it. But I think it is absolutely fair to say that, to this point in his career, he is not a very good college player.

http://www.thestate.com/sports/college/article113190723.html

Woods suffered knee and ankle injuries the summer of '16, and it was common knowledge among Heel fans that those injuries nagged him all through his freshman year.

He was considered fully healthy to start this season and was showing much better athleticism, decision making and ball handling before being injured again.

The jury is still out on his potential to be an impact player.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I agree. Any strategy that involves more Manley and less Berry/Maye/Johnson from 3 is to our advantage.

Manley playing strong inside will give us better shots from Berry,Maye, Johnson, and Williams from 3.

[uh_no]

After the 4th time he should have realized something wasn’t working.

I would like to think the communication this week was something like "if you start pulling that again, i'm putting in jack white."

...which is of course, both a threat against the player, and against UNC.

[CDu]

Manley playing strong inside will give us better shots from Berry,Maye, Johnson, and Williams from 3.

1. Manley is unlikely to play strong against the four better bigs we have; and
2. You don’t need to go inside to get good looks from 3 against a team playing two bigs (use Duke vs UNC in past years as an example).
3. Asking your fairly raw, freshman big to create shots for your veterans isn’t a smart strategy.

Much more likely to find success by Berry and Pinson driving and dishing.

[weezie]

I would like to think the communication this week was something like "if you start pulling that again, i'm putting in jack white."


Unless, i.e., he surprises all of us and starts the bench. If the starters couldn't/wouldn't/didn't execute six called plays in the last game, I'm kinda thinking our K was beyond miffed.

At what point does K's irritation become volcanic?

[CDu]

Unless, i.e., he surprises all of us and starts the bench. If the starters couldn't/wouldn't/didn't execute six called plays in the last game, I'm kinda thinking our K was beyond miffed.

At what point does K's irritation become volcanic?

That would certainly explain the postgame presser.

Though if true, one has to wonder why Coach K didn’t pull whichever players were not running the plays for a bit to send a message. Maybe after the third or fourth time it happened? We (rightfully) get onto Ole Roy for not using his timeouts to coach his team in-game. Well, seems like if they were repeatedly not running the plays you call, you should assert some control over the team.

Obviously we can’t know the specifics of all that happened, but it seems strange to let that slide six times.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

1. Manley is unlikely to play strong against the four better bigs we have; and
2. You don’t need to go inside to get good looks from 3 against a team playing two bigs (use Duke vs UNC in past years as an example).
3. Asking your fairly raw, freshman big to create shots for your veterans isn’t a smart strategy.

Much more likely to find success by Berry and Pinson driving and dishing.

He's not going to be creating shots, he would force the defense to adjust, that is if UNC can feed him the ball down low in good rythem.

You guys shouldn't underestimate Manley, he's really big and going to be a very good player.

Berry and Pinson will look to drive to the rim, you're right about that.

[Wander]

You guys shouldn't underestimate Manley, he's really big and going to be a very good player.


Ah, glad to hear we have a new Wear twins/Nate Britt.

[uh_no]

That would certainly explain the postgame presser.

Though if true, one has to wonder why Coach K didn’t pull whichever players were not running the plays for a bit to send a message. Maybe after the third or fourth time it happened? We (rightfully) get onto Ole Roy for not using his timeouts to coach his team in-game. Well, seems like if they were repeatedly not running the plays you call, you should assert some control over the team.

Obviously we can’t know the specifics of all that happened, but it seems strange to let that slide six times.

K's a competitor, and decisions made in real time aren't always perfect. I can imagine wanting to win the game in the moment might outweigh thoughts of discipline, but when addressed in hindsight, appear to have been the wrong thing to do.

[kshepinthehouse]

He's not going to be creating shots, he would force the defense to adjust, that is if UNC can feed him the ball down low in good rythem.

You guys shouldn't underestimate Manley, he's really big and going to be a very good player.

Berry and Pinson will look to drive to the rim, you're right about that.

I’ll take Carter over Manley any day. I don’t think it’s going to be as easy inside for him as you suggest.

[kshepinthehouse]

Ah, glad to hear we have a new Wear twins/Nate Britt.

Who could forget Joel James? 😂😂😂

[CDu]

He's not going to be creating shots, he would force the defense to adjust, that is if UNC can feed him the ball down low in good rythem.

You guys shouldn't underestimate Manley, he's really big and going to be a very good player.

Berry and Pinson will look to drive to the rim, you're right about that.

I don’t think I am underestimating Manley. I think he could eventually be a good post option. But he isn’t good enough right now to warrant extra defensive attention. But that is at least a year away, and against a less talented group of bigs.

If Manley scores in this one, it is going to be because your guards draw our bigs’ attention away from him, not the other way around.

I know you are a firm believer in working inside out offensively. But that just isn’t the DNA of this year’s UNC team. Conversely, that plays into the DNA of this year’s Duke team. In this one, you guys would do best to borrow Duke’s usual playbook. Because how you beat this Duke team is how Duke has historically beaten big teams: spread us out and attack from the perimeter.

[superdave]

My biggest concern going into the game is how does Duke defend Berry/Maye in a pick and roll or pick and pop? If I were UNC, I would run it every single play. Duke proved they couldn't defend it well against Ponds. Berry isn't as quick in the lane but he has Maye to cause more problem with the pick and pop play.

Does UNC run a lot of pick and roll action?

With Unc's smaller roster, they should run a lot of pick no pop, backdoors and go bombs away from 3. They should follow the Mike Brey formula and spread Duke out and make those big guys defend in space. Now the question is whether Roy can figure that out and they have enough talent to pull it off.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I’ll take Carter over Manley any day. I don’t think it’s going to be as easy inside for him as you suggest.

Carter is a way more talented, athletic player than Manley. Nobody is suggesting otherwise, and nobody is suggesting anything will be easy. But Manley is big and has touch. Carter has to defend him and that's not easy for anyone if Manley catches it cleanly in the low post.

[UrinalCake]

After the 4th time he should have realized something wasn’t working.

I guess the question is why the drawn-up plays weren’t executed. Did the players simply choose to ignore K and keep the ball for themselves? Did they panic in the heat of the moment and forget? Did the defense read the play and bust it up, forcing us to improvise?

[CoachJ10]

[QUOTE=Wheat/"/"/";1037956]Like many others have pointed out, there is no way to really predict how this game plays out.


My UNC Defensive Matchups:
Maye/Carter
Pinson/Bagley
Johnson/Trent
Williams/Allen
Berry/Duval


Duke has a very compelling advantage at every position (although I wouldn’t be surprised if Trent and Allen spent some time on Berry...he is not particularly quick and their strength and length could frustrate him).

This game, like every game this season, is squarely on Duke’s shoulders. Can we play like a team for 40 minutes and can we play smart for 40 minutes? If we do...I think we win by a healthy margin.

[kshepinthehouse]

[QUOTE=Wheat/"/"/";1037956]Like many others have pointed out, there is no way to really predict how this game plays out.


My UNC Defensive Matchups:
Maye/Carter
Pinson/Bagley
Johnson/Trent
Williams/Allen
Berry/Duval


Duke has a very compelling advantage at every position (although I wouldn’t be surprised if Trent and Allen spent some time on Berry...he is not particularly quick and their strength and length could frustrate him).

This game, like every game this season, is squarely on Duke’s shoulders. Can we play like a team for 40 minutes and can we play smart for 40 minutes? If we do...I think we win by a healthy margin.

We def don’t have a very compelling advantage at point guard.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

[QUOTE=CoachJ10;1038495]

We def don’t have a very compelling advantage at point guard.

And there is certainly the possibility that Maye could go off on Carter or Bagley with a good shooting night. He's a tough matchup for Duke.

[kshepinthehouse]

[QUOTE=kshepinthehouse;1038496]

And there is certainly the possibility that Maye could go off on Carter or Bagley with a good shooting night. He's a tough matchup for Duke.

I agree that we may have a hard time containing Maye, but mostly because we have a hard time containing anybody.

I also think Maye is going to have his hands full with Bagley and Carter as I don’t think he matches up well with either of them.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

[QUOTE=Wheat/"/"/";1038501

I also think Maye is going to have his hands full with Bagley and Carter as I don’t think he matches up well with either of them.

Yep, and that's why they play the game...to see who can impose their style of play.

[CDu]

I agree that we may have a hard time containing Maye, but mostly because we have a hard time containing anybody.

I also think Maye is going to have his hands full with Bagley and Carter as I don’t think he matches up well with either of them.

I fully expect Maye to have a good game offensively, as we struggle with stretch-4s. But I also fully expect Maye to get abused on the other end too.

[BigZ]

This actually the best matchup after the disaster bc the rivalry will force the team to be energized

[DukieInBrasil]

My UNC Defensive Matchups:
Maye/Carter
Pinson/Bagley
Johnson/Trent
Williams/Allen
Berry/Duval


Duke has a very compelling advantage at every position (although I wouldn’t be surprised if Trent and Allen spent some time on Berry...he is not particularly quick and their strength and length could frustrate him).

This game, like every game this season, is squarely on Duke’s shoulders. Can we play like a team for 40 minutes and can we play smart for 40 minutes? If we do...I think we win by a healthy margin.

Duke does not have the advantage at PG, although if Duval plays up to his potential it should be a draw.
Duke does not have the advantage at SF either, being more or less a draw between Trent and Johnson.
Duke does not have the advantage at whatever the Maye/Carter matchup is either. Although their strengths are different, it's a wash on the stat sheet. Personally, i think Carter can win the matchup if it does turn out to be those two matched up with each other.
Duke does have the advantage between Bagley & Pinson, although they are not asked to do similar things.
Duke should have the advantage at SG, and i hope Grayson gets it going in this game, but if he has another 5 point game on 1-6 FG and 3-5 FTs, it could end up as a UNC advantage.

As i see it, Duke has a clear advantage in only one matchup. There are 2 matchups that Duke should take the advantage, 1 in which it looks like a draw and one in which it looks like UNC has a clear advantage. But really, this game will be about team execution for Duke, regardless of individual matchups. If Duke comes together and plays cohesively, they could really whoop the Cheaters. If Duke plays unfocused or uncohesively, then UNCheaters will have a much easier path to the win.

[gofurman]

[QUOTE=kshepinthehouse;1038496]

And there is certainly the possibility that Maye could go off on Carter or Bagley with a good shooting night. He's a tough matchup for Duke.

I agree w Wheat here. Who can we have guard Maye at the distance shooting? He can shoot. And it pulls Bagley or Carter away from the rebound... Maye is a concern fo sho'

Basically UNC wins when Berry Maye and one other - Johnson usually- score. They lost at Clemson be Maye didn't score. Johnson and Berry had a lot of points. Berry will probably get his. You have to stop either Maye or Johnson.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

[QUOTE=Wheat/"/"/";1038501]

I agree w Wheat here. Who can we have guard Maye at the distance shooting? He can shoot. And it pulls Bagley or Carter away from the rebound... Maye is a concern fo sho'

Basically UNC wins when Berry Maye and one other - Johnson usually- score. They lost at Clemson be Maye didn't score. Johnson and Berry had a lot of points. Berry will probably get his. You have to stop either Maye or Johnson.
Javin. Assuming he is healthy.

[CoachJ10]

Duke does not have the advantage at PG, although if Duval plays up to his potential it should be a draw.
Duke does not have the advantage at SF either, being more or less a draw between Trent and Johnson.
Duke does not have the advantage at whatever the Maye/Carter matchup is either. Although their strengths are different, it's a wash on the stat sheet. Personally, i think Carter can win the matchup if it does turn out to be those two matched up with each other.
Duke does have the advantage between Bagley & Pinson, although they are not asked to do similar things.
Duke should have the advantage at SG, and i hope Grayson gets it going in this game, but if he has another 5 point game on 1-6 FG and 3-5 FTs, it could end up as a UNC advantage.

As i see it, Duke has a clear advantage in only one matchup. There are 2 matchups that Duke should take the advantage, 1 in which it looks like a draw and one in which it looks like UNC has a clear advantage. But really, this game will be about team execution for Duke, regardless of individual matchups. If Duke comes together and plays cohesively, they could really whoop the Cheaters. If Duke plays unfocused or uncohesively, then UNCheaters will have a much easier path to the win.

Yea, I guesss we just have different takes on Johnson / Trent and Maye / Carter matchups. Trent has been an incredibly consistent player as of late and Carter has shown us the big man game we all have been looking for. I dont think the UNC talent at those positions is close.

It is, however, more than just talent that wins games. Playing together is what we need to do for 40 minutes.

[DukeBlue666s]

This is a little off topic, but I have a quick question regarding the chat during games.

Is this something I could join into and chat also? I thought I read something a while ago saying something like the top 50 (don’t remember the number) peeps in the forum have access to the chat.

Could I get access to the chat, please? Thank you!

[subzero02]

This is a little off topic, but I have a quick question regarding the chat during games.

Is this something I could join into and chat also? I thought I read something a while ago saying something like the top 50 (don’t remember the number) peeps in the forum have access to the chat.

Could I get access to the chat, please? Thank you!

If you can find the Jade monkey before the next full moon, you may join DBR chat.

[Bob Green]

Game Day has arrived. I expect it to be a competitive and exciting game. Duke will need to be active on the glass as Carolina is a good rebounding team, and we need to knock down 3 PT FGs as defending the 3 is Carolina's weakness. We have a decisive advantage inside so big games from both Carter and Bagley are in order. Defensively, it all starts with checking Joel Berry. He is the key to Carolina's offense. Finally, Grayson Allen must hunt his shot to be more involved in the offense.

[Bob Green]

Could I get access to the chat, please? Thank you!

A link will be posted before the game starts. All you have to do is click on the link. No secret society membership/password required.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

This is a little off topic, but I have a quick question regarding the chat during games.

Is this something I could join into and chat also? I thought I read something a while ago saying something like the top 50 (don’t remember the number) peeps in the forum have access to the chat.

Could I get access to the chat, please? Thank you!

If you are browsing on a mobile device, you will have to click the drop down menu at the bottom of the page to change from "mobile" to "blue" in order to be able to use the chat interface.

That's the only trick, but without it you will be frustrated.

Fair warning: if you find the forum to be negative, reactionary, or devisive, the chat will make you insane. But when things are going well, it is fun to celebrate with you peers.

[superdave]

"Roy Williams asked if there’s enough room for #Duke’s Brotherhood & the #UNC family..
“They stoke it. But they’re intelligent, they gave it a new name. I was quoted once as using ‘Brotherhood,’ but I didn’t. I always use the word ‘Family.’”


Family? Another "invention" from the dean's myth center.

9F 'em.

Like a lying, cheating Mafia Family? I get it now. Ok. I see what Dean built to keep kids eligible and coaches out of trouble.

[BobBender]

I sure hope not. Roaring back comebacks from double digit deficits is not a good or likely formula for success on the road in hostile environments against seniors like Berry who can hit daggers and free throws. We should know that by now.

I'd prefer to blow them out of the building from the opening tip.

and all the cheats in cheatville cried boo hoo

Should be a fun game, for somebody.

I'd much prefer this scenario too. UNC's front court won't be able to contain Wendell and MB3. Here's a novel concept: our guards defend Berry like their life depends on it. It seems there is such a focus on how Grayson's O has disappeared lately and how Duval isn't getting it done. Well, play hard D if you aren't getting your points and you can still be a big positive. I don't care who scores, it's about the W

[SkyBrickey]

I've got a really good feeling about tonight's game. I think our team of budding superstars was very embarrassed coming back from NYC this past weekend and maybe realized for the first time they've got to buy-in to 100% focus and intensity for 40 minutes. No one is going to give this team anything. But they have the ability to take anything they want.

Last year's team was talented but flawed. This year's team is not flawed. It is a collection of amazing talents - offensive and defensive - at every position - with solid role players coming off the bench to back them up. I think tonight we take a huge step forward toward reaching our potential.

Devils by 12.

[weezie]

A link will be posted before the game starts. All you have to do is click on the link. No secret society membership/password required.

Obvi, Bob Green isn't aware of the secret handshake.

[jv001]

[QUOTE=gofurman;1038548]
Javin. Assuming he is healthy.

Who get's benched for Javin to play lot's of minutes? Just wondering? :cool: GoDuke!

[DukieInBrasil]

Yea, I guesss we just have different takes on Johnson / Trent and Maye / Carter matchups. Trent has been an incredibly consistent player as of late and Carter has shown us the big man game we all have been looking for. I dont think the UNC talent at those positions is close.
It is, however, more than just talent that wins games. Playing together is what we need to do for 40 minutes.

Cam Johnson was injured for a while so his overall stats are suppressed a bit by that. Make no mistake, the kid can score. He's also taller than Trent so he might be able to shoot over and/or rebound better. Trent is stout though, so he might be able to get the better of Johnson that way. Johnson scored 32 vs Clemson, so don't overlook him. Ftr, Trent's high scoring game is 30.
For as much as you laud Carter, as you should, Maye is averaging more rebounds and more points than Carter. So, whether or not he's more talented he's more productive. They do different things, so it's not like a strait up comparison is all that sound, Carter has to share paint touches with Bagley so that likely limits his points and rebounds. Carter can block shots, Maye doesn't, at least not in the paint. Is one clearly better than the other? Both have good arguments as why they are better players this year in the NCAA, which is why i said it's a wash.

[Reddevil]

Often, it is the guy you don't expect that goes off in these games. Clamp down on Maye and Berry, and a guy like Kenny Williams has a career night. Hopefully this is one of those games where Duke's intensity is unmatched. I imagine practice has been uhmm .....enlightening since Sunday.

[chrishoke]

Often, it is the guy you don't expect that goes off in these games. Clamp down on Maye and Berry, and a guy like Kenny Williams has a career night. Hopefully this is one of those games where Duke's intensity is unmatched. I imagine practice has been uhmm ....enlightening since Sunday.

Fred Lind!

[jv001]

Fred Lind!

Robby West? :cool: GoDuke!

[Troublemaker]

I'd much prefer this scenario too. UNC's front court won't be able to contain Wendell and MB3. Here's a novel concept: our guards defend Berry like their life depends on it. It seems there is such a focus on how Grayson's O has disappeared lately and how Duval isn't getting it done. Well, play hard D if you aren't getting your points and you can still be a big positive. I don't care who scores, it's about the W

It's not that simple, unfortunately. If teams attacked us 1-on-1, then it WOULD be that simple. But since they put us in pick-n-roll, it means the big has to play it right, the coaching has to be right, and the other 3 defenders have to play it right, too.

Overall, I would actually rank Grayson and Gary as our two best defenders this season so far. They don't own a huge lead over their teammates or anything, but if you HAD to pick the top 2, they would be my choices. Wendell probably 3rd.



I've got a really good feeling about tonight's game. I think our team of budding superstars was very embarrassed coming back from NYC this past weekend and maybe realized for the first time they've got to buy-in to 100% focus and intensity for 40 minutes. No one is going to give this team anything. But they have the ability to take anything they want.

Last year's team was talented but flawed. This year's team is not flawed. It is a collection of amazing talents - offensive and defensive - at every position - with solid role players coming off the bench to back them up. I think tonight we take a huge step forward toward reaching our potential.

Devils by 12.

I agree with you that I'm much more comfortable with the talent this year than last year. But we still have flaws. We're missing that combo forward talent that we usually get to enjoy. I'd love to be able to slap Winslow onto CamJohnson tonight when UNC is small, for example. If we draw Ohio St in the tourney, do we have someone who can guard Bates-Diop, for example? Also, while Trevon is talented, he's struggled on both sides of the court so far this season. We need him to be better. And we could use a little bit more shooting, too.

[uh_no]

duke lost 81-79

[SkyBrickey]

duke lost 81-79

Uh, no. I don't think so.

[uh_no]

Uh, no. I don't think so.

i certainly hope not, at least.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

[QUOTE=Dr. Rosenrosen;1038551]

Who get's benched for Javin to play lot's of minutes? Just wondering? :cool: GoDuke!
Just saying Javin could be a helpful defender off the bench against Maye or Johnson give his size and athleticism. If he is healthy enough. And I guess I should add, if he can guard without burning through his fouls.

I really don’t think we’ll see Duke playing much zone tonight given the cheaters’ penchant for three point shooting. Our m2m will have to be tight with lots of communciation.

[CDu]

Also, while Trevon is talented, he's struggled on both sides of the court so far this season. We need him to be better. And we could use a little bit more shooting, too.

Duval and Allen are the keys to the season from here on out in my opinion. And probably moreso Allen.

Excluding our games against non-Power-6 schools (because including them would only further my point here), here are Allen's scoring numbers in wins vs in losses:

Wins: 42.9 fg%, 36.6 3pt%, 15.9 ppg, 1.32 points per shot, 54.1 eFG%, 59.0 TS%
Losses: 25.0 fg%, 15.8 3pt%, 8.5 ppg, 0.77 points per shot, 28.4 eFG%, 34.2 TS%

Quite frankly, he appears to be the bellwether of this team. When he plays well, we win. When he struggles, we stand a good chance of losing. Right now, the discrepancy between his production in wins versus losses is stark.

Yes, this is somewhat inflated by the MSU game. But even if you remove MSU, it's still true. His eFG% only drops to 50.9%, and his TS% falls just to 55.3%.

Basically, getting Allen back to being a productive offensive player will go a long way towards us winning, both tonight and in the long-term. I know that's not Earth-shattering analysis, but the numbers are pretty striking.

Duval certainly needs to play better too, although his performance in wins versus losses seems less linked to the team's results. Getting those two guys going would push us close to unstoppable offensively.

The biggest knocks I have for Duval at this point are his man defense (which has been surprisingly bad) and his sloppiness with the ball. Both dribbling and passing, he's a little too loose out there. It's a balancing act, because you don't want to hurt his creativity, but on a team with this much offensive firepower, we simply shouldn't give away possessions needlessly. Even a missed shot has a decent chance of winding up as points for us.

[left_hook_lacey]

Point spread's are a lot smaller than I thought they'd be. Some books had Duke open as -1, quickly went up to -2, before going back down to a pick em. Other books have had it as a pick the whole time.

I really thought we'd be -4 or -5 at least. Maybe it's recency bias because UNC is coming off a win and we just lost to St. freakin John's and add in UNC is home. But, there is no way this game should be a pick in my eyes. This makes me nervous.

[kshepinthehouse]

Point spread's are a lot smaller than I thought they'd be. Some books had Duke open as -1, quickly went up to -2, before going back down to a pick em. Other books have had it as a pick the whole time.

I really thought we'd be -4 or -5 at least. Maybe it's recency bias because UNC is coming off a win and we just lost to St. freakin John's and add in UNC is home. But, there is no way this game should be a pick in my eyes. This makes me nervous.

Why is this surprising to you? We lost to Boston College and NC State on the road.

[CDu]

Point spread's are a lot smaller than I thought they'd be. Some books had Duke open as -1, quickly went up to -2, before going back down to a pick em. Other books have had it as a pick the whole time.

I really thought we'd be -4 or -5 at least. Maybe it's recency bias because UNC is coming off a win and we just lost to St. freakin John's and add in UNC is home. But, there is no way this game should be a pick in my eyes. This makes me nervous.


Why is this surprising to you? We lost to Boston College and NC State on the road.

Yeah, we are a 1.7-point favorite according to TRank, probably similar on KenPom. So an even line seems more reasonable than a -5, and no less reasonable than a -4. Honestly, a -1 or -2 feels about right for a line.

[ncexnyc]

Point spread's are a lot smaller than I thought they'd be. Some books had Duke open as -1, quickly went up to -2, before going back down to a pick em. Other books have had it as a pick the whole time.

I really thought we'd be -4 or -5 at least. Maybe it's recency bias because UNC is coming off a win and we just lost to St. freakin John's and add in UNC is home. But, there is no way this game should be a pick in my eyes. This makes me nervous.

They must be watching all of the ESPN hype leading up to the game.

ESPN has an interesting segment that they've been running to hype the game showing a comparison between the two teams since 1977. One really wild stat is the fact that since 1977 we hold the scoring edge in the series by a whopping 2, that's right 2 points!

[Troublemaker]

Point spread's are a lot smaller than I thought they'd be. Some books had Duke open as -1, quickly went up to -2, before going back down to a pick em. Other books have had it as a pick the whole time.

I really thought we'd be -4 or -5 at least. Maybe it's recency bias because UNC is coming off a win and we just lost to St. freakin John's and add in UNC is home. But, there is no way this game should be a pick in my eyes. This makes me nervous.

UNC is actually now the favorite since the last time you checked. 1.5 on the offshore sites and 1 in Vegas.

Not really surprising, imo. As CDu mentions, the computers have always had this close. It IS at UNC.

Duke has a lot to prove.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Uh, no. I don't think so.

I suspect if Duke holds UNC to 79 points and can score at least 81, we have an 80% chance of victory.

[kshepinthehouse]

Yeah, we are a 1.7-point favorite according to TRank, probably similar on KenPom. So an even line seems more reasonable than a -5, and no less reasonable than a -4. Honestly, a -1 or -2 feels about right for a line.

KenPom and ESPN's BPI both have Duke as a 52% chance of winning.

[53n206]

ESPN has NC -1.5; Odds has Duke -1. Wow, at this time of year I'd have expected Duke -4.

[Matches]

They must be watching all of the ESPN hype leading up to the game.

ESPN has an interesting segment that they've been running to hype the game showing a comparison between the two teams since 1977. One really wild stat is the fact that since 1977 we hold the scoring edge in the series by a whopping 2, that's right 2 points!

And Tyler Zeller scored those two points! :)

[Kedsy]

Cam Johnson was injured for a while so his overall stats are suppressed a bit by that. Make no mistake, the kid can score. He's also taller than Trent so he might be able to shoot over and/or rebound better. Trent is stout though, so he might be able to get the better of Johnson that way. Johnson scored 32 vs Clemson, so don't overlook him. Ftr, Trent's high scoring game is 30.
For as much as you laud Carter, as you should, Maye is averaging more rebounds and more points than Carter. So, whether or not he's more talented he's more productive. They do different things, so it's not like a strait up comparison is all that sound, Carter has to share paint touches with Bagley so that likely limits his points and rebounds. Carter can block shots, Maye doesn't, at least not in the paint. Is one clearly better than the other? Both have good arguments as why they are better players this year in the NCAA, which is why i said it's a wash.

Johnson is only one inch taller than Trent. I doubt that's enough of an advantage to allow him to shoot over or outrebound Gary.

Maye is averaging more points and rebounds than Carter primarily because he plays more minutes (21.4% more minutes, to be precise). Though he still has slightly more points per minute than Wendell, in this case largely because he has a higher usage rate. Wendell has a higher OR%, DR%, oRating, PER, win shares per 40, and box plus/minus. So I don't really think Maye is more productive than Wendell.

That said, Maye is having an amazing year, much better than I ever would have expected, and his stats are close enough to Wendell's to amaze me. But if I'm playing pickup and I get to choose between the two, I'm taking Wendell 100 out of 100 times.

[thedukelamere]

And Tyler Zeller scored those two points! :)

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PersonalElaborateElver-small.gif

[pfrduke]

duke lost 81-79

What a very specific dream.

[Dukehky]

Rip their souls out of their bodies. The whole freaking arena.

Go Duke. GTHC.

[left_hook_lacey]

Yeah, we are a 1.7-point favorite according to TRank, probably similar on KenPom. So an even line seems more reasonable than a -5, and no less reasonable than a -4. Honestly, a -1 or -2 feels about right for a line.

It make sense on paper I guess. It's just, when I look at our players and then theirs, it just feels like they shouldn't even be on the same court as us. There's been very few years I've felt like that but this is one of them. We could have a bad game and still win by 5 or 10. If they have a bad game they will get blown out. They depend on Maye and Berry too much. We can come at them from many different weapons. They have to launch 3's and hope for the best.

[CDu]

It make sense on paper I guess. It's just, when I look at our players and then theirs, it just feels like they shouldn't even be on the same court as us. There's been very few years I've felt like that but this is one of them. We could have a bad game and still win by 5 or 10. If they have a bad game they will get blown out. They depend on Maye and Berry too much. We can come at them from many different weapons. They have to launch 3's and hope for the best.

If it was in Cameron, we would probably be 8+ point favorites. And I might take the over. But we've not shown any consistency on the road this year. And UNC is better than any team we've faced on the road so far.

[Rich]

If it was in Cameron, we would probably be 8+ point favorites. And I might take the over. But we've not shown any consistency on the road this year. And UNC is better than any team we've faced on the road so far.

Not to mention it's the one game that UNC fans are actually loud, which could rattle our guys. Our frosh have never played in this sort of environment. Plus, Joel Berry scares me. As a senior he may just will his team to win.

[left_hook_lacey]

Not to mention it's the one game that UNC fans are actually loud, which could rattle our guys. Our frosh have never played in this sort of environment. Plus, Joel Berry scares me. As a senior he may just will his team to win.

That's another point I wanted to make when I said they rely on Berry and Maye too much. Reports are coming out of Chapel Hill that Berry is tired and banged up from having to play so many minutes and trying to do too much. With Felton gone, that could get even worse unless Pinson plays some point, which eliminates a shooter during those times. Seventh Woods is supposed to be back for this game, but who knows how much he'll be able to contribute, or what that chemistry would be like. Tough game to come back from injury. Maybe he should give Ryan Kelly a call for some advice on how to approach it. :cool:

[Lar77]

It make sense on paper I guess. It's just, when I look at our players and then theirs, it just feels like they shouldn't even be on the same court as us. There's been very few years I've felt like that but this is one of them. We could have a bad game and still win by 5 or 10. If they have a bad game they will get blown out. They depend on Maye and Berry too much. We can come at them from many different weapons. They have to launch 3's and hope for the best.

I agree. On paper (and to the eye) we are the superior talent. They have hustle and home.

Hold our own on rebounding, no unforced turnovers, and some defense. Show some pride and don't let up.

[CDu]

Not to mention it's the one game that UNC fans are actually loud, which could rattle our guys. Our frosh have never played in this sort of environment. Plus, Joel Berry scares me. As a senior he may just will his team to win.

I hate the fact that UNC has so many good shooters, especially guys who can play the frontcourt. Our bigs have not done well in keeping track of good-shooting bigs this year, and Maye and (when they go small) Johnson can create quite a headache. The 3pt shot is such a huge weapon, and it is one area we have historically had a big edge on UNC. But this year, the script is flipped.

And, as you said, Berry has the potential to be a real monster.

Of course, the same can be said the other way. We have a huge size and talent advantage inside, as even our backups are better than their second-best big man. We have a senior Grayson Allen who has historically lit up UNC. And we have a dynamic athlete ballhandler that can cause trouble.

It will be an interesting game. If we lose, it's likely to be because we failed to keep track of Maye and/or Berry had a big night.

[Troublemaker]

It make sense on paper I guess. It's just, when I look at our players and then theirs, it just feels like they shouldn't even be on the same court as us. There's been very few years I've felt like that but this is one of them. We could have a bad game and still win by 5 or 10. If they have a bad game they will get blown out. They depend on Maye and Berry too much. We can come at them from many different weapons. They have to launch 3's and hope for the best.

They are us from previous seasons, and we are them from previous seasons. That's somewhat oversimplified, but yeah, we should know from our h2h record with them in recent seasons that their style of play this season matches up well with our style of play this season. This should be very competitive.

[UrinalCake]

If memory serves, Berry had a huge first half for them in last season’s game in Chappa Heeya. He hadn’t been shooting the three well but did so in that particular game. Making him work and wearing him down with a soft 3/4-court press could pay dividends.

[Ian]

It make sense on paper I guess. It's just, when I look at our players and then theirs, it just feels like they shouldn't even be on the same court as us. There's been very few years I've felt like that but this is one of them. We could have a bad game and still win by 5 or 10. If they have a bad game they will get blown out. They depend on Maye and Berry too much. We can come at them from many different weapons. They have to launch 3's and hope for the best.

I don't disagree with anything you said except that their fans probably felt the same way about us in 2012 and 2016 and yet we managed to steal a game from them on the road both times with on paper what seemed to be overmatched rosters.

[Bob Green]

Making him work and wearing him down with a soft 3/4-court press could pay dividends.

I'm a big fan of the 3/4-court press and hope to see us utilize it frequently after made baskets. The press could create some turnovers but more important is the general disruption to Carolina's offensive flow. When we miss and Carolina secures the defensive rebound, getting back on defense will be vital. We cannot let Carolina score a bunch of transition points.

[Kedsy]

I don't disagree with anything you said except that their fans probably felt the same way about us in 2012 and 2016 and yet we managed to steal a game from them on the road both times with on paper what seemed to be overmatched rosters.

In the Duke/UNC rivalry, since Coach K began at Duke, when one of the teams is top 10 and the other team is top 25 (but not top 10), the higher-ranked team has 18 wins and 8 losses. Of the eight times that the lower-ranked team has won, 3 have been at home, 3 have been on the road, and 2 have been in the ACC tournament.

[left_hook_lacey]

In the Duke/UNC rivalry, since Coach K began at Duke, when one of the teams is top 10 and the other team is top 25 (but not top 10), the higher-ranked team has 18 wins and 8 losses. Of the eight times that the lower-ranked team has won, 3 have been at home, 3 have been on the road, and 2 have been in the ACC tournament.

Stat of the day, stat of the day.....bop bop......Stat of the day, stat of the day.....here comes that WHAT? Stat of the day........bop!!!


Anybody listen to the Dan Patrick show as much as I do?

[uh_no]

8060

9f all day.

[Billy Dat]

In the Duke/UNC rivalry, since Coach K began at Duke, when one of the teams is top 10 and the other team is top 25 (but not top 10), the higher-ranked team has 18 wins and 8 losses. Of the eight times that the lower-ranked team has won, 3 have been at home, 3 have been on the road, and 2 have been in the ACC tournament.

Cool, I need some "the odds are in our favor" stats. It's so hard to know how the youngsters will respond. I am hoping for big paws on these puppies!

[devildeac]

8060

9f all day.

I'm guessing those will be your first half beverages. :rolleyes:

[Heels'71]

So much continues to be written about Carolina and the academic scandal. No doubt, it is an embarrassment to all of us who attended. (I graduated in '75.) However, let's be honest and admit that the term "student athlete" is a joke. Take the current Duke basketball roster (and the same would hold true for most any other university.) Do you sincerely believe that if I, a non-athlete, applied to Duke with most of the current roster's high school transcript and SAT scores that I would be admitted to Duke? Not a chance. That said, I would most likely be turned down as admissions would feel I would not be successful as a student. You cannot tell me that these "student athletes" do not receive special treatment that is not available to non-athletes. And no matter what DBR says, I would be most surprised if the "one and done" athletes put forth much of an effort during the second semester and once the season ends for them I doubt classmates see much of them any more. It is time to allow high school basketball players the option to go right to the NBA be it the "G" league or if good enough to an NBA roster. Baseball has it right, sign out of high school or play college ball for three years.

[Rich]

So much continues to be written about Carolina and the academic scandal. No doubt, it is an embarrassment to all of us who attended. (I graduated in '75.) However, let's be honest and admit that the term "student athlete" is a joke. Take the current Duke basketball roster (and the same would hold true for most any other university.) Do you sincerely believe that if I, a non-athlete, applied to Duke with most of the current roster's high school transcript and SAT scores that I would be admitted to Duke? Not a chance. That said, I would most likely be turned down as admissions would feel I would not be successful as a student. You cannot tell me that these "student athletes" do not receive special treatment that is not available to non-athletes. And no matter what DBR says, I would be most surprised if the "one and done" athletes put forth much of an effort during the second semester and once the season ends for them I doubt classmates see much of them any more. It is time to allow high school basketball players the option to go right to the NBA be it the "G" league or if good enough to an NBA roster. Baseball has it right, sign out of high school or play college ball for three years.

Glad you got that off your chest? Why should anyone waste their time responding with that kind of condition? We generally favor rational and reasoned discourse in the DBR, but since you're not willing to entertain or consider a response, you might as well go back from where you came. It seems you have no business here. Oh, and you should be embarrassed about your alma mater.

[uh_no]

That said, I would most likely be turned down as admissions would feel I would not be successful as a student.

The argument is not that people with such scores cannot be successful at duke....it's that there are many more qualified applicants. Not all of them are geniuses, but they do complete coursework. Source: was in the same writing 20 as some bball players.


You cannot tell me that these "student athletes" do not receive special treatment that is not available to non-athletes. I won't tell you that, then.


And no matter what DBR says, I would be most surprised if the "one and done" athletes put forth much of an effort during the second semester and once the season ends for them I doubt classmates see much of them any more. Given that duke men's bball was top 10 in APR last year, you should put your surprised face on. But I'm guessing you'll simply ignore that fact, in which case, I take back what I said earlier....you probably don't have what it takes to be successful as a student at duke.


It is time to allow high school basketball players the option to go right to the NBA be it the "G" league or if good enough to an NBA roster. Baseball has it right, sign out of high school or play college ball for three years. i don't think you'll find any argument here.

[cato]

So much continues to be written about Carolina and the academic scandal.

Lol. Say what you will, the PR money was well spent.

[uh_no]

I'm guessing those will be your first half beverages. :rolleyes:

ruination double IPA for the finish

[Troublemaker]

So much continues to be written about Carolina and the academic scandal. No doubt, it is an embarrassment to all of us who attended. (I graduated in '75.) However, let's be honest and admit that the term "student athlete" is a joke. Take the current Duke basketball roster (and the same would hold true for most any other university.) Do you sincerely believe that if I, a non-athlete, applied to Duke with most of the current roster's high school transcript and SAT scores that I would be admitted to Duke? Not a chance. That said, I would most likely be turned down as admissions would feel I would not be successful as a student. You cannot tell me that these "student athletes" do not receive special treatment that is not available to non-athletes. And no matter what DBR says, I would be most surprised if the "one and done" athletes put forth much of an effort during the second semester and once the season ends for them I doubt classmates see much of them any more. It is time to allow high school basketball players the option to go right to the NBA be it the "G" league or if good enough to an NBA roster. Baseball has it right, sign out of high school or play college ball for three years.

"I like to abuse kids and no doubt that's an embarrassment to me, my family, and my friends when I was caught. (Leavenworth since '98). But let's face it, every now and then, when all you 'non child abusers' are on a plane or in a restaurant and you hear a kid cry out, you get annoyed at that kid. I would be most surprised if some of you didn't mutter under your breath for him to shut up."

[elvis14]

So much continues to be written about Carolina and the academic scandal.

Actually, one of the things that been most offensive since the truth started to come out isn't that "so much continues to be written" about your Cheating it's that so little has been written considering the magnitude of the Cheating and the undeserved stature your athletic programs and particularly your Cheating basketball team under RoyW. Your millions spent on PR and protection from Cheaters at ESPN have prevented what should have happened.

Some schools do hold their athletes to higher standards than others....even if they are one and done.

[CameronBlue]

So much continues to be written about Carolina and the academic scandal. No doubt, it is an embarrassment to all of us who attended. (I graduated in '75.) However, let's be honest and admit that the term "student athlete" is a joke. Take the current Duke basketball roster (and the same would hold true for most any other university.) Do you sincerely believe that if I, a non-athlete, applied to Duke with most of the current roster's high school transcript and SAT scores that I would be admitted to Duke? Not a chance. That said, I would most likely be turned down as admissions would feel I would not be successful as a student. You cannot tell me that these "student athletes" do not receive special treatment that is not available to non-athletes. And no matter what DBR says, I would be most surprised if the "one and done" athletes put forth much of an effort during the second semester and once the season ends for them I doubt classmates see much of them any more. It is time to allow high school basketball players the option to go right to the NBA be it the "G" league or if good enough to an NBA roster. Baseball has it right, sign out of high school or play college ball for three years.

Congratulations, you may have set the record for the most straw man arguments in a single post. The issue is not that "student athlete" is a misnomer; that entrance requirements and the standard of achievement necessary to remain eligible are not lower bars for student athletes in some sports to clear. The issue is that UNC for 20 years found a way to slide under that bar, in effect saying to the NCAA "yup we see what you've established as your "bare minimimum" and we're not even going to do the bare minimum. You can probably argue effectively that that of which UNC student athletes were deprived probably was inconsequential in the grand scheme of things, but who really wants to stand up in the court of public opinion and make that argument? Fly that flag high if you wish.

[SkyBrickey]

So much continues to be written about Carolina and the academic scandal. No doubt, it is an embarrassment to all of us who attended. (I graduated in '75.) However, let's be honest and admit that the term "student athlete" is a joke. Take the current Duke basketball roster (and the same would hold true for most any other university.) Do you sincerely believe that if I, a non-athlete, applied to Duke with most of the current roster's high school transcript and SAT scores that I would be admitted to Duke? Not a chance. That said, I would most likely be turned down as admissions would feel I would not be successful as a student. You cannot tell me that these "student athletes" do not receive special treatment that is not available to non-athletes. And no matter what DBR says, I would be most surprised if the "one and done" athletes put forth much of an effort during the second semester and once the season ends for them I doubt classmates see much of them any more. It is time to allow high school basketball players the option to go right to the NBA be it the "G" league or if good enough to an NBA roster. Baseball has it right, sign out of high school or play college ball for three years.

The first two sentences of your post make perfect sense and then the whole thing kind of comes unraveled.

If this was an attempt to create some type of equivalence between 20 years of academic cheating and the education of one-and-done players, it failed miserably.

[uh_no]

If this was an attempt to create some type of equivalence between 20 years of academic cheating and the education of one-and-done players, it failed miserably.

And yet, sadly, it is the go-to argument of hole fans.

[Truth&Justise]

So much continues to be written about Carolina and the academic scandal. No doubt, it is an embarrassment to all of us who attended. (I graduated in '75.) However, let's be honest and admit that the term "student athlete" is a joke. Take the current Duke basketball roster (and the same would hold true for most any other university.) Do you sincerely believe that if I, a non-athlete, applied to Duke with most of the current roster's high school transcript and SAT scores that I would be admitted to Duke? Not a chance. That said, I would most likely be turned down as admissions would feel I would not be successful as a student. You cannot tell me that these "student athletes" do not receive special treatment that is not available to non-athletes. And no matter what DBR says, I would be most surprised if the "one and done" athletes put forth much of an effort during the second semester and once the season ends for them I doubt classmates see much of them any more. It is time to allow high school basketball players the option to go right to the NBA be it the "G" league or if good enough to an NBA roster. Baseball has it right, sign out of high school or play college ball for three years.

Others have refuted most of your points already, so I will address this point about admissions. The school considers applicants holistically. If a student has lower grades or SAT scores because that student took the time to become world-class in a different skill--be it clarinet, computer programming, or even basketball--that is taken into account. So no, I don't believe you'd be admitted with low scores AND with no other world-class skill that the University was searching for. Thankfully, that's not the situation here.

[-jk]

DBR Chat (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox) is open!

If it gets a bit slow, refresh the page. If you're on a mobile device, you'll need to select "Blue" at the bottom.

As always - please follow the DBR Posting Guidelines.

Let's Go Duke!

-jk

[Jaymf7]

We were favored by 1.5 this morning, but I just saw it switched to now favoring UNC by 1.5. Anyone sick? Other news? I guess that could just be a normal swing but seems like a lot right before game time. Go Duke!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

In the spirit of optimism, I predict Duke by 27

[mgtr]

In the spirit of optimism, I predict Duke by 27

I'll see your score, and raise you 5 to 32!

[riverside6]

Live tempo-based stats for UNC/Duke, starters posted...

https://www.scacchoops.com/duke-at-unc-basketball-live-stats-02082018

[duke4ever19]

I actually have a good feeling about this game.

Now all I can do is hope that in a couple hours this comment isn't quoted with a snarky, "Oh yeah? How'd that work out for ya?"

[Dub]

Finally checking in. I’m actually a bit nervous about this game. As long as Bagley and Carter stay out of foul trouble we should win going away. Cam scares me the most out of anyone. My money is literally on the good guys. Duke 83 - UNC 78. Lets GOOOO!!!

[Troublemaker]

We were favored by 1.5 this morning, but I just saw it switched to now favoring UNC by 1.5. Anyone sick? Other news? I guess that could just be a normal swing but seems like a lot right before game time. Go Duke!

Nah, no injuries. The move happened around noon.


I actually have a good feeling about this game.

Now all I can do is hope that in a couple hours this comment isn't quoted with a snarky, "Oh yeah? How'd that work out for ya?"

It's sick but the SJU loss makes me feel better about this game.

[WHOneedsSOX]

Sounds loud in there but then you see the crowd just standing there. Cameron is so much better with the student section in the camera frame.

[DUKIE V(A)]

Grayson off to a positive start. Love it!

[WHOneedsSOX]

What a dunk!

[wavedukefan70s]

What a dunk!

Need all that.

[wavedukefan70s]

Bolden 😁

[WHOneedsSOX]

Bolden 😁

He's playing very well.

[wavedukefan70s]

Absolutely. I'm glad for him .the guys had a rough road.

[WHOneedsSOX]

Berry is allowed to hand check as much as he wants but Duke isn't allowed to touch him. Got it.

[wavedukefan70s]

Dang it his wrist.

[wavedukefan70s]

Berry is allowed to hand check as much as he wants but Duke isn't allowed to touch him. Got it.

I know ,right.that was bs.

[jipops]

No defense. None. Zilch. This is so bad

[WHOneedsSOX]

I know ,right.that was bs.

Looked like Carter was being pushed on that last lob too.

[Eternal Outlaw]

Refs to the rescue to end half, 2 bonuses but nothing with the contact on our offensive end.

4 to 9 FTs when they are the jack them up 3 point team and we are the inside team.

[CoachJ10]

Without these refs, we are up double digits. ACC refs disgracing themselves once again.

[ncexnyc]

Pound the ball inside, pound the ball inside, pound the ball inside! I don't know what's so hard for these kids to grasp.

Again, they had a team down only to let them back into the game.

[rsvman]

Without these refs, we are up double digits. ACC refs disgracing themselves once again.

They blew a couple of calls late for sure. No way Grayson should've had the block when Maye ruled through him. That would've given Maye 3 fouls.
And Carter was completely mugged on that last play.

[duke2x]

Sounds loud in there but then you see the crowd just standing there. Cameron is so much better with the student section in the camera frame.

Just as Duke was good about turning up the thermostat in Cameron, UNC excels at turning up the stadium loudspeakers. :) The noise is the only fake thing you will ever see in Chapel Hill.

[jipops]

Duke closed out that half just like most every other game this season.

1st few minutes of the 2nd will be key for momentum. It pretty much killed us last weekend.

[ChillinDuke]

Just lol at some of you.

We're up 4 at half in Chapel Hill. We're not going to do everything right every single possession. Like c'mon people. Up 4 at Chapel Hill is a positive outcome, no two ways about it.

- Chillin

[Steven43]

Without these refs, we are up double digits. ACC refs disgracing themselves once again.
For sure. Maye traveled and ended up with a foul called on Grayson. Two free throws for Maye. And how could they not have called a foul on whoever slammed into Carter while he was in mid-air going up to catch an alley-opp pass on Duke’s last possession? Travesty.

[wavedukefan70s]

They blew a couple of calls late for sure. No way Grayson should've had the block when Maye ruled through him. That would've given Maye 3 fouls.
And Carter was completely mugged on that last play.

I agree 100000%.

[kmspeaks]

Refs to the rescue to end half, 2 bonuses but nothing with the contact on our offensive end.

4 to 9 FTs when they are the jack them up 3 point team and we are the inside team.

How on earth was that a block on Allen?

Also it appears we've reached that point in the season where the freedom of movement emphasis is just preseason noise. Sometimes it seems my local high school association has better referees than major college basketball. Hand check away gentlemen.

[arnie]

We are clearly the superior team and good to see the bench play. Not sure if all that translates into a win.

[WHOneedsSOX]

Duke needs to close out a bit better but other than that, they're fine.

[Ian]

Well, so far my script for the 1st half was about right, hopefully the 2nd half turns out a bit different...

[rsvman]

I expect UNCheat's 3-point shooting to revert to the mean in the second half, too.

I hope the coaches have some back-up plan to the idea of switching on every screen. That left us with some horrible mismatches in the first half that they didn't fully exploit.

[jv001]

Why don't our guys fight through the picks? There are plenty of times that guys could stay on their man and not get caught in mismatches. We give up a lot of 3 point shots by switching every pick. Just my thoughts. GoDuke!

rsvman must be reading my mind. GoDuke!

[WHOneedsSOX]

Why don't our guys fight through the picks? There are plenty of times that guys could stay on their man and not get caught in mismatches. We give up a lot of 3 point shots by switching every pick. Just my thoughts. GoDuke!

rsvman must be reading my mind. GoDuke!
I think Duke's defense is so bad that coach K just tells them to switch everything and keep a man in between the ball and the basket. Minimizes the chances of being confused on what to do on screens.

[jipops]

We are clearly the superior team and good to see the bench play. Not sure if all that translates into a win.

We're most definitely not superior.