Hurley Horse Happenings

[DevilHorse]

Folks,

For those of you who are not familiar with this thread, years ago, when Bobby Hurley had a racing stable and breeding operation, we tracked horses that were connected to him in this thread. Bobby is out of the horse business and is into thoroughbreds of a different kind (ahem). But we continue to look for names and racing animals that have Duke or Blue Devil Connections to track for those of you who like the ponies, or might watch once or twice a year.

Yesterday, at Gulfstream Park, a very nice Todd Pletcher trainee named Audible won the Holy Bull stakes and established himself as a serious contender for the Triple Crown this year. He is out of the great young sire Into Mischief and the mare Blue Devil Bel.

So to all of you blue devil belles out there and those who are so associated with them, we are calling an audible on Super Bowl Sunday and bringing back this thread for occasional alternate things to follow on the horse paths of the Thoroughbred and Standardbred tracks of America and beyond.

Larry
DevilHorse
B.S. Albany #2 preseason Lacrosse
Ms., Ph.D. Duke #1 preseason Lacrosse

[Devilwin]

The horse has the pedigree. Into Mischief is loaded with great runners like Affirmed, and Storm Cat, who was a grandson of the GOAT, Secretariat. That's just the Sire side. On the dam side is Nijinsky, Tom Fool, and the great Northern Dancer.

[DevilHorse]

In the Holy Bull, all 11 entrants had Secretariat in their pedigree. But all representation was through one of his many amazing daughters, even if it was on the sire side.
All 6 entrants in the Withers at Aqueduct descended from Secretariat, including (obviously) the winner Avery Island (the favorite).
7 of 9 entrants in the Robert B. Lewis at Santa Anita descended from Secretariat, including the surprise winner Lombo (two crosses) and post time favorite Peace.
All 3 of these races allotted points toward the Kentucky Derby.

Larry
Devilhorse

[bradvinjack]

I am so glad to see you post again. As a avid fan of horse racing and a Duke fan. It is always appreciated to see the horses related even only by name sometimes to the program. My wife and I always enjoy to place a wager on any Duke related horse. Glad to see you Post again and hope to see more as the racing season kicks into gear.

[DevilHorse]

I am so glad to see you post again. As a avid fan of horse racing and a Duke fan. It is always appreciated to see the horses related even only by name sometimes to the program. My wife and I always enjoy to place a wager on any Duke related horse. Glad to see you Post again and hope to see more as the racing season kicks into gear.

Glad to hear. As an avid fan, owner, and breeder myself, I read many periodicals and entries over the course of a week. Of course I am tickled when I see horses named Battier or Duke's Cherokee. But of course, when they are low level claimers who run often, and who rarely show potential, it does not merit much attention or a bet. Blue Devil Racing Stable had a nice operation for a while, but they were not associated with Duke at all (but they were a nice Bunch Of Guys!).

So, the positive re-enforcement is appreciated and I'll gladly report on similar similar stock, with pre-race notifications and Past Performances, to enhance the experience as long as there is interest; feedback is appreciated. Load up your TVG accounts!!

Larry
Devilhorse

[Devilwin]

In the Holy Bull, all 11 entrants had Secretariat in their pedigree. But all representation was through one of his many amazing daughters, even if it was on the sire side.
All 6 entrants in the Withers at Aqueduct descended from Secretariat, including (obviously) the winner Avery Island (the favorite).
7 of 9 entrants in the Robert B. Lewis at Santa Anita descended from Secretariat, including the surprise winner Lombo (two crosses) and post time favorite Peace.
All 3 of these races allotted points toward the Kentucky Derby.

Larry
Devilhorse

Secretariat was a fantastic broodmare sire. Top, of the list was Terlingua, who was a respectable racer but was renown as the dam of Storm Cat, a two year champion sire. Secretariat's greatest racing filly was Lady's Secret, who won 25 of 45 races, came in second nine times. As a four year old, she defeated the country's top male horses four times.
I believe Secretariat was under rated as a sire of champions. Besides Lady's Secret, he sired Risen Star, who won the 1988 Preakness, then followed that with a 16 length romp in the Belmont. He was impeded in the Derby, or we may have had another father/son Triple Crown winner. General Assembly was another good son of Secretariat.
In the best of breeding barns, all royal blood flows together..

[DevilHorse]

Secretariat was a fantastic broodmare sire. Top, of the list was Terlingua, who was a respectable racer but was renown as the dam of Storm Cat, a two year champion sire. Secretariat's greatest racing filly was Lady's Secret, who won 25 of 45 races, came in second nine times. As a four year old, she defeated the country's top male horses four times.
I believe Secretariat was under rated as a sire of champions. Besides Lady's Secret, he sired Risen Star, who won the 1988 Preakness, then followed that with a 16 length romp in the Belmont. He was impeded in the Derby, or we may have had another father/son Triple Crown winner. General Assembly was another good son of Secretariat.
In the best of breeding barns, all royal blood flows together..

I view Secretariat's Broodmare legacy as having 4 foundational families:
Terlingua - dam of Storm Cat (as you pointed out) - the first Breeder's Cup winner and sire of many shorter route sires.
Secretame - dam of Gone West (best branch of mudders this side of Super Saver)
Six Crowns - dam of Chief's Crown (channeling the Turf monster side of Secretariat from Princequillo) mating of 2 triple crown winners.
Weekend Surprise - dam of AP Indy and Summer Squall (two Classic winners), line of Tapit, lots of Classic contenders here

I'd say 90% of Secretariat's representation in today's pedigrees are through these 4 mares.
Now you are seeing significant inbreeding (sire and dam side of pedigrees) appearing in top runners to Secretariat.
It has been suggested that in time, a horse's contribution to the breed reaches a stable level. Northern Dancer and Mr. Prospector will have larger contributions to the breed than Secretariat, but neither captured the imagination.

Larry
DevilHorse

[Devilwin]

One thing I never understood was when Blood Horse magazine released the Top 100 horses of the 20th Century, they rated Secretariat second behind Man O' War. Bill Nack said it was because one of the voters put Secretariat number 14, which skewed the rankings. They should have tossed that vote and re-voted , because anyone with half a brain knows there were not 13 horses better than Secretariat.

[JBDuke]

Not to dissuade further discussion on this topic, but this was only tenuously related to Duke basketball when it first appeared, and now it doesn't even have that. Feel free to continue the discussion, but I'm moving this thread to the Off Topic Board.

[DevilHorse]

Man O War was 21 of 22 and finished 2nd in that one loss.
Secretariat lost 4 races out of 21, two 2nds, a 3rd, and an out of the money 4th in his first start.
His amazing 31 length victory in a World Record 2:24, was done on a track where about 1/3 of the track records were set that particular week.
That track was lightning fast. But then, Secretariat also won in 2:25 4/5 later that season at Belmont in the Woodward and 2:24 and 4/5 in the Man O War on the Turf.

In Standardbred voting, the amazing Niatross (only lost 2 races out of 26 as a 3 year old and was undefeated as a 2 year old) had one guy not vote for him as Horse of the Year. They asked the guy why he didn't vote for Niatross, and he said he voted for a 2YO named French Chef because French Chef had a more unexpected season (which he did not). Niatross that year broke the all time, all age record for standardbreds by almost 3 seconds in a sport where records are broken by only 1/5s of seconds. The previous record had stood for 9 years. French Chef was a 2 year old. Who has expectations to begin with for a 2 year old. He lost one race, but was not as brilliant as Niatross. Nut job.

Lady's Secret was mentioned earlier as a great racing daughter of Secretariat. She was something. A very different type than the great breeding mares of Secretariat. Lady's Secret was out of a very good Stakes mare, just like these others. But Lady was small. I saw her at Monmouth Park as a 4 year old. She was a peanut. If she was 900 pounds or 1000, that was it. Most horses in the Kentucky Derby are 1200-1300 pounds. As a 2 year old, she was what you DON'T want as a horse. She went right to the front, ran as hard as she could, and faded in her first few races. I remember after she broke her maiden, she would lose in stakes to a super nice stakes mare named Mom's Command. But she would get stronger, and would start to carry her speed. By the middle of her 3 Year Old year, she started to figure it out and the connections started to put her into the middle distance races for older mares. She became unstoppable. She ran the older mares off their feet and became a power in the mare ranks for one and half years. She ran against the boys, winning the Whitney at Saratoga as a 4 year old. This headstrong mare had essentially had it as a 5 year old and bolted (ran to the outside of the track) twice in consecutive races and was retired.

General Assembly was a great horse. Arrogate recently broke GA's record for 1 1/4 miles at Saratoga. However, General Assembly's race was run on a sloppy track (wet fast). I saw General Assembly after a Grad School exam, drove up from Duke to see the Laurel Futurity. What a beautiful chestnut. He had the pedigree, the confirmation, and speed. The Laurel Futurity attracted 4 great horses that day. My recollection was that it was Tim The Tiger, Clever Trick, General Assembly, and some grey horse who was unproven named Spectacular Bid!! Guess who blew everyone out of the water and announced himself to the world.

Risen Star was a big and beautiful horse. He "should" have won the Derby and Triple Crown that year, but the Kentucky Derby is usually a traffic mess. Ask Curlin.
There were some other big winners for the tail male for Secretariat, but they didn't breed through. Tinner's Way comes to mind. Globe was good.

Larry
DevilHorse

[Devilwin]

Secretariat was knocked to his knees in his first start by Atlas. He refused to grab the bit in the Wood, and an abscess was found in his upper lip, caused by a hay brier.
He clipped Stop The Music in the Champagne, and won the race, but was disqualified. In the Woodward and the Whitney he was found to be nursing a virus in both races.
If you look at times for distance between the two, it's not even close. Even if Mano is given a few lengths for the advantages Secretariat enjoyed as for food, iron shoes vs aluminum, and others, he still defeats Mano by several lengths. I think it's strange the only race Man O' War lost was to a horse named "Upset".

[rasputin]

Secretariat was knocked to his knees in his first start by Atlas. He refused to grab the bit in the Wood, and an abscess was found in his upper lip, caused by a hay brier.
He clipped Stop The Music in the Champagne, and won the race, but was disqualified. In the Woodward and the Whitney he was found to be nursing a virus in both races.
If you look at times for distance between the two, it's not even close. Even if Mano is given a few lengths for the advantages Secretariat enjoyed as for food, iron shoes vs aluminum, and others, he still defeats Mano by several lengths. I think it's strange the only race Man O' War lost was to a horse named "Upset".

Not strange at all. That is how the term "upset" (to mean that the favorite was beaten unexpectedly) began, after Upset beat Man-O-War.

[Devilwin]

Not strange at all. That is how the term "upset" (to mean that the favorite was beaten unexpectedly) began, after Upset beat Man-O-War.

Found this on the use of the term.http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2011/05/sports-legend-revealed-did-the-term-upset-in-sports-derive-from-a-horse-named-upset-defeating-man-o-.html

[DevilHorse]

Well, I thought that the summer of 1973 was the origin of when someone showed the "Onions" to beat a better competitor?
But then, the horse that beat Secretariat in the 1i73 Whitney was a gelding, so that vision just falls apart as you peal back the layers :p

Larry
DevilHorse

[Devilwin]

Well, I thought that the summer of 1973 was the origin of when someone showed the "Onions" to beat a better competitor?
But then, the horse that beat Secretariat in the 1i73 Whitney was a gelding, so that vision just falls apart as you peal back the layers :p

Larry
DevilHorse

Onion. Yeah, he got Secretariat on one of his two races when he was incubating a stomach bug. You know, Secretariat faced older horses in the Marlboro (including stable mate Riva Ridge) and defeated them, and again faced a good field in the Canadian Open, and blew them away. You may know more about this than I do, but wouldn't you say he faced much stiffer competition than Mano? To my knowledge, Sir Barton was the toughest test he had (other than Upset).
Sorry to hijack your thread, I apologize. I love horse racing, and have been a fan of Secretariat ever since he won the TC.

[DevilHorse]

Onion. Yeah, he got Secretariat on one of his two races when he was incubating a stomach bug. You know, Secretariat faced older horses in the Marlboro (including stable mate Riva Ridge) and defeated them, and again faced a good field in the Canadian Open, and blew them away. You may know more about this than I do, but wouldn't you say he faced much stiffer competition than Mano? To my knowledge, Sir Barton was the toughest test he had (other than Upset).
Sorry to hijack your thread, I apologize. I love horse racing, and have been a fan of Secretariat ever since he won the TC.

Hmmmm... One thing that I do is look for horse names as I travel through life.. Treading Water,.. Good Horse Name!! I just stick it into a file.
I have a file of bawdy horse names too, with plenty of double entendres, but I digress.

No problem on moving off the topic. Apparently JB Duke didn't like our Topic and booted us off the main thread, so we don't have to be Duke BBall centric.
And, todays TBreds usually take 3 weeks between races, so it will be 2 weeks before we call another Audible! And so, we can tread water with horse discussion.

I like talking horses too.

While I know a bit (pun intended) about Secretariat, I can't say I know that many details about Man O War or Sir Barton. I was a bit young back then. Only a glint in my grandparent's eyes.

Competition, Racetrack Surface, Jockeys, Conditions, Saddle Technology (is the cynch too tight?): it all varies from year to year. Still 21 of 22 is a lot more consistent than 17 of 21. But Secretariat, when he was on, he was brilliant.
On 3 of the 4 losses, it seems Secretariat was ill, one famous abscess and two fevers.
Horses with Red Coats and white feet are also at a disadvantage. They get sicker more often. It is a fact.
There are a number of quaint poems about how the more white feet a horse has, the worse it is.

For example:

One white foot, buy him.
Two white feet, try him.
Three white feet, be on the sly.
Four white feet, pass him by.

I remember one (sort of) that ended..

Three white feet, steady as she goes.
Four white feet, feed him to the crows.

In my experience, if a horse gets a fever, they may lose the hair on the white hoof and it comes back slowly. It is tougher to keep white feet healthier.
Most all of the problems with horses happen in the knees and feet.
We always took extra care to poultice the feet of our horses and inspect the white feet; every day!

Secretariat had 3 white feet. Man 0 War had 0 white feet.
Secretariat was a bright red chestnut (more susceptible to illness). That is different than the dark type (liver colored) of chestnut that Man O War was.

I saw Onion when he was 6 at Aqueduct. He was in an allowance race on a cold overcast day. He didn't win, but he kept earning his keep.

Larry
DevilHorse

[Devilwin]

There are those that think Citation may have been better than both of them in his prime, and one expert scoffed at Mano, and said "Count Fleet would have run him down". I don't know about all that, but who knows? Citation was a great one, and so was Count Fleet, and Kelso as well. I have seen in print that Phar Lap was as good as any of these, he surely was a beast. Other than Secretariat, my favorite of the horses from bygone days was Whirlaway. He had this extra long tail, and could fly! I liked the name too..lol

[DevilHorse]

There are those that think Citation may have been better than both of them in his prime, and one expert scoffed at Mano, and said "Count Fleet would have run him down". I don't know about all that, but who knows? Citation was a great one, and so was Count Fleet, and Kelso as well. I have seen in print that Phar Lap was as good as any of these, he surely was a beast. Other than Secretariat, my favorite of the horses from bygone days was Whirlaway. He had this extra long tail, and could fly! I liked the name too..lol

On my way to Durham (keeping that connection to Duke in there) to see the National Sports Festival at Wallace Wade in I think 1986, I went through Kentucky. I stopped by Louisville where the US National Team (Coached by Denny Crum) was training at Univ of Louisville. I stopped in there, just to look. I had a chance encounter with David Robinson in the parking lot of our hotel. This was unexpected. Also went to Churchill Downs. The next day I went out to Lexington to look a few farms. I remember seeing The Three Chimneys of the farm where Seattle Slew resided from the highway, and we stopped by Claiborne, but couldn't see Big Red because the Keeneland sale was going on (much to my regret). No hands available to give us a tour.

We went on to Stoner Creek stud to see some Standardbreds there. The great Meadow Skipper was there and Nevele Pride (as mean a horse as there was, but wicked fast). But Stoner Creek used to also raise Thoroughbreds, and they had a cemetery on the farm. There amongst the stones was a big regal stone for Count Fleet. Who knew.

Larry
DevilHorse

[Devilwin]

They said the Count would try to 'race" younger horses in his pasture when he was 30 years old!

[DevilHorse]

I thought both Catholic Boy and Axe Man, favorites in yesterday's KY Derby preps.
Catholic Boy looked short in his start. Was way back at the start; made a protracted run for 4f; and took a short lead, only to lose it on the lead to a determined Flameaway (the great-great-grandson of Storm Cat -Tail Male). I think Catholic Boy will get much benefit from this start.
Ax Man, a one time, eye-popping starter. Got caught in a speed duel and faded with his duel mate. The winner, Kanthaka, is also a great great grandson of Storm Cat (muddled somewhere in the mare's pedigee [broodmare sire of the broodmare sire]. Kanthaka looks to be getting better as the race gets longer. Ax Man does not have a classic pedigree, and so far does not have a classic temperment.

Larry
Devilhorse

[Devilwin]

I remember the classic duels between Easy Goer and Sunday Silence. I saw an article that blamed Easy Goer's jockey, Pat Day, for his losses in the Preakness and Breeder's Cup, when he waited too long to challenge Sunday Silence. Especially the Breeder's Cup, where Sunday Silence won by a neck after Easy Goer came charging late. I watched both races yesterday, and this does appear to be the case. In the Belmont, Easy Goer just blew him away. Makes me wonder if the big son of Alydar wasn't the better of the two after all.

[DevilHorse]

I remember the classic duels between Easy Goer and Sunday Silence. I saw an article that blamed Easy Goer's jockey, Pat Day, for his losses in the Preakness and Breeder's Cup, when he waited too long to challenge Sunday Silence. Especially the Breeder's Cup, where Sunday Silence won by a neck after Easy Goer came charging late. I watched both races yesterday, and this does appear to be the case. In the Belmont, Easy Goer just blew him away. Makes me wonder if the big son of Alydar wasn't the better of the two after all.

A few things. Easy Goer did not look comfortable on the rail. His head was cocked and he was in close quarters. If I recall, he won the Belmont from the outside. The geometry of the Preakness suggested to me that his mind was all about racing at the end.

Remember I mentioned earlier in 1986 when I went to Kentucky. That must have been 1987 because after I visited Claiborne that morning I went over to Keeneland to see the high priced yearling sale. I saw Houston get sold there. He was the high priced horse sold that day for a million and change. I like the thoroughbred sales. Free drinks!!

Larry

[Devilwin]

A few things. Easy Goer did not look comfortable on the rail. His head was cocked and he was in close quarters. If I recall, he won the Belmont from the outside. The geometry of the Preakness suggested to me that his mind was all about racing at the end.

Remember I mentioned earlier in 1986 when I went to Kentucky. That must have been 1987 because after I visited Claiborne that morning I went over to Keeneland to see the high priced yearling sale. I saw Houston get sold there. He was the high priced horse sold that day for a million and change. I like the thoroughbred sales. Free drinks!!

Larry

And Affirmed and Alydar. I pulled hard that year for Alydar. Shame how he died. Lots of intrigue there.

[DevilHorse]

I saw Affirmed and Alydar in the Hopeful and Saratoga in the Fall of 1977. I was an undergraduate in the great state of New York at the time and loaded my tack into the dorm in the early AM and made it up the Northway to the Spa for the last card of the meet. Affirmed was just a freak. Alydar could only beat him through a DQ (Travers) or by brushing by him near the wire so Affirmed couldn't react. Affirmed beat a brillant sprinter in Sensitive Prince in the Jim Dandy as a 3YO by coming from (something like) 15 lengths back in the stretch to nip him at the wire. Affirmed benefited from having "The Kid" as his pilot. Steve Cauthen was a wonderful jockey that we saw briefly here in the US. He used to win half of his mounts at Belmont when he had the bug. Exacta bets used to box him as did Daily Double bets. In a couple of years he outgrew the US weight system and went to Europe.
Also, home from school for thanksgiving, I followed up my Alydar fetish by going to Aqueduct and checking out the Remsen Stakes. Alydar was a big favorite and I couldn't in good conscience bet him. So I picked a good looking horse named Believe It who paid $15.20 and finished 3rd in the KY Derby next year.

My girlfriend (now wife) and I had front-row seats at the Belmont the next year for that great Belmont.

Say what you want about Sunday Silence, he became a much better sire than Easy Goer, for 1 generation. He dominated the Japanese breeding sire list. But alas, that dominance only seems to be lasting for 1 generation as Sunday Silence does not seem to be a sire of sires.

Larry
DevilHorse

[DevilHorse]

I apologize, but I meant to write about Paved on Friday, and I started to do so, but my computer browser died 80% through the post and I had to get onto some work and didn't want to re-create the post.

Paved won the El Camino Real yesterday and I'm excited about this filly.
She beat the boys.
Why did I key in on this horse in that field.
She won her first and only race by 5, and it looked easy.
She was the only horse that has gone 1 1/8 miles, and from off the pace.
But there were a few others in there that had previous wins, so what else?
But she is by the interesting sire Quality Road.
The pedigree is interesting.
Quality Road was a dirt runner who was really good. He was on the Triple Crown trail and $2M.
His Sire Elusive Quality set a mile world record on the Turf at 1:31 3/5 at Belmont. Paved's maiden victory was on the Turf.
Elusive Quality's sire was a miler named Gone West who was a super mudder, out of the Secretariat mare Secretame.

When Secretariat was a sire, he didn't hit his stride until his 3rd crop (Secretame and Terlingua were in that one) that is when breeders saw what foals he was producing from which type of mares from his first crop and could book back mares to produce the 3rd crop. So I put stock into what happens in the 3rd and 4th crops of sires.

Quality Road just had 2 Eclipse award winners this past year from his 3rd and 4th crop. Both fillies! So Quality Road can sire fillies.

This caught my eye. A really good horse can win the El Camino Derby, so that is the horse that I would back, and I did. Paid $6.20.

Bravazo won the Risen Star and I couldn't say why. May never hear from him again.

Larry
Devilhorse

[Devilwin]

Alysheba was a good one. Three year old of the year in '87.

[DevilHorse]

Alysheba was a good one. Three year old of the year in '87.

Alysheba's Triple Crown was like Sunday Silence. Won the first two legs, but got blown out by Bet Twice in the Belmont. Alysheba's stud career was lacking though. Part of the general demise of the Alydar line.

Larry
DevilHorse

[Devilwin]

Calumet Farms had one of the best three year old classes in 1948, with TC winner Citation, Coaltown, and the filly Bewitch. What a great class, all three in the Blood Horse top 100. In their careers, Citation won 32 races, Coaltown 23, and Bewitch 20.
I would have loved to have seen the battles in '57 between Bold Ruler, Gallant Man, Round Table and Iron Liege. There was a class of champions if there ever was one.
And what about Damascus? And Native Dancer? And I loved Riva Ridge, who ( in spite of the lack of mention in that terrible movie by Disney on Secretariat) by winning the Derby and Belmont in 1972 was the horse that saved Meadow Stable, not the surpassing Secretariat, as was shown in the movie. I hated that movie. I think the greatest racer of all time deserved better, it was nowhere near as good as Seabiscuit. Both movies were rife with bad info. In Seabiscuit, they kept referring to War Admiral as a huge monster of a horse, when in fact, both horses were just over 15 hands, and Seabiscuit was actually heavier. It also made it look like Riddle was ducking Seabiscuit, when in fact Howard scratched Seabiscuit twice when they were scheduled to run.
I was talking to a guy a few weeks ago who declared the mighty filly Ruffian could have beaten Secretariat. I laughed at the notion. I mean, she was probably the greatest filly ever, but beating big Red was a bit much to ask. And speaking of her, I don't believe ( we will never know, sadly) that she would have beaten Foolish Pleasure. Foolish Pleasure was a gutsy, hard running horse that hated to trail another horse.

[DevilHorse]

Calumet Farms had one of the best three year old classes in 1948, with TC winner Citation, Coaltown, and the filly Bewitch. What a great class, all three in the Blood Horse top 100. In their careers, Citation won 32 races, Coaltown 23, and Bewitch 20.
I would have loved to have seen the battles in '57 between Bold Ruler, Gallant Man, Round Table and Iron Liege. There was a class of champions if there ever was one.
And what about Damascus? And Native Dancer? And I loved Riva Ridge, who ( in spite of the lack of mention in that terrible movie by Disney on Secretariat) by winning the Derby and Belmont in 1972 was the horse that saved Meadow Stable, not the surpassing Secretariat, as was shown in the movie. I hated that movie. I think the greatest racer of all time deserved better, it was nowhere near as good as Seabiscuit. Both movies were rife with bad info. In Seabiscuit, they kept referring to War Admiral as a huge monster of a horse, when in fact, both horses were just over 15 hands, and Seabiscuit was actually heavier. It also made it look like Riddle was ducking Seabiscuit, when in fact Howard scratched Seabiscuit twice when they were scheduled to run.
I was talking to a guy a few weeks ago who declared the mighty filly Ruffian could have beaten Secretariat. I laughed at the notion. I mean, she was probably the greatest filly ever, but beating big Red was a bit much to ask. And speaking of her, I don't believe ( we will never know, sadly) that she would have beaten Foolish Pleasure. Foolish Pleasure was a gutsy, hard running horse that hated to trail another horse.

I like your list of famous "triples".

I was just starting to cut my teeth on racing in 1975 when I took my girlfriend to see the Belmont that year (won by Avatar). When the Match Race came up, I was at school, but I think that was on Labor Day so I brought a friend down from Albany (actually, she had the car) and I took the girl friend and her sister to see this great match race. We stopped in the OTB which was giving out HIM and HER buttons (great gimmick). I recall looking closely at the Daily Racing Form and seeing that Ruffian was about a second faster at like distances than Foolish Pleasure, although Ruffian did get the weight advantage. I didn't think Ruffian would lose. It was a humid day and got a bit thundery when the horses came out. I think only on the Affirmed/Alydar day was Belmont more packed. It was quite a loss, but I just don't see how Foolish Pleasure could have beaten Ruffian based on the racing form. Foolish Pleasure didn't win much after the Derby as I recall. But then, the Match Race became a walk-over.
I usually kept the Past Performances back then, but I could never locate the one from that day. Drats.

Larry
DevilHorse

[DevilHorse]

Folks,

The Florida Derby (this Saturday 3/29/2018) sees the return of Audible (into Mischief - Blue Devil Bel) to the races. Out ONLY 56 days. Today's thoroughbred seems to race just enough to gather points to be eligible to start in the KY Derby, stay fit, and avoid injury. Key Contenders against will be Strike Power, Promises Fulfilled, and Catholic Boy (the day before Easter).
Audible will NOT have the services of his regular rider, Javier Castellano, because JC will be in Dubai riding West Coast for Bob Baffert, in the Dubai World Cup. Understandable, I'd expect Pletcher is forgiving. John Velazquez will be up. He piloted Audible to his maiden win (and his only loss). If Audible wins, I'd expect JV to become Varsity on Audible.

Here is a link to free Past Performances, courtesy of Briswatch:
http://www.brisnet.com/php/bw_pdf_viewer.php?track=GP&race=14&param1=3360&param2=2480&param3=2005892

Only #2 Millionaire Runner has no Secretariat blood (for those tracking Big Red's influence).

Larry
DevilHorse

[DevilHorse]

Folks,

The Florida Derby (this Saturday 3/29/2018) sees the return of Audible (into Mischief - Blue Devil Bel) to the races. Out ONLY 56 days. Today's thoroughbred seems to race just enough to gather points to be eligible to start in the KY Derby, stay fit, and avoid injury. Key Contenders against will be Strike Power, Promises Fulfilled, and Catholic Boy (the day before Easter).
Audible will NOT have the services of his regular rider, Javier Castellano, because JC will be in Dubai riding West Coast for Bob Baffert, in the Dubai World Cup. Understandable, I'd expect Pletcher is forgiving. John Velazquez will be up. He piloted Audible to his maiden win (and his only loss). If Audible wins, I'd expect JV to become Varsity on Audible.

Here is a link to free Past Performances, courtesy of Briswatch:
http://www.brisnet.com/php/bw_pdf_viewer.php?track=GP&race=14&param1=3360&param2=2480&param3=2005892

Only #2 Millionaire Runner has no Secretariat blood (for those tracking Big Red's influence).

Larry
DevilHorse

Audible stamped himself as a probable co-favorite for the Kentucky Derby with a strong performance in the Florida Derby. With a workmanlike performance, he stayed back in the pack during a hot early pace. Later he put away Catholic Boy who did not look like he wanted any part of the winner.
Here is the race result, courtesy of Brisnet:
http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/instant.cgi?date=2018-03-31&track=GP&country=USA&race=14&type=inc&print=on

In other news, McKinzie will not run in the Santa Anita Derby, which casts doubt on whether he will enter the Kentucky Derby or if he does enter, be at his sharpest.

Larry
DevilHorse

[DevilHorse]

Well, the Kentucky Derby is here. Audible has done nothing to deter bettors (betters?). With a juicy post 5 he is likely to encounter some traffic problems since he has not shown a lot of early speed, but it is a long race. Castellano is up. You will get good odds as the likely 3rd favorite behind Justify and Bolt D'Oro. Justify is the 'girl with the curl' as that one is trained by Baffert and ran a hole in the wind the last time out, beating Bolt D'oro. Only the backstretch whispers and the lack of 'need' for anything but a tightener by Bolt D'oro propelled Justify into his big favorite's status. Is he Seattle Slew or Demon's Begone? He is a front-runner and will have to fight off horses for 1.25 miles, which is a tall order. Audible will have time to sit back and make a long, sustained run; sounds easier if he doesn't get too far back.

I count 3 out of the 20 horses as being devoid of Secretariat blood (Good Magic, Bravazo, and Vino Rossi).

An interesting horse is Mendelssohn. Out of the super broodmare Leslie's Lady who brought us the improving sire Into Mischief (sire of Audible !!) and the super racemare Beholder ($M).
Mendelssohn is from Europe (Turf Turf Turf) and came to the US last year to win the Breeder's Cup Juvenile Turf. Has never been on dirt, but obviously has a dirt pedigree.
Although, historically, horses from Europe have not competed well in the US in the KY Derby, but they have done well in the Breeder's Cup. Thunder Snow did poorly in last year's KY Derby, but won the Dubai Cup this year.. just sayin.

Magnum Moon is also undefeated. Hasn't been spectacular but has done everything asked of him. A Todd Pletcher entry.

Here are the race lines, courtesy of Briswatch.
http://www.brisnet.com/php/bw_pdf_viewer.php?track=CD&race=12&param1=4080&param2=340&param3=1622472

Other opinions/views?

Larry
DevilHorse

[duketaylor]

please handicap this race. I plan on making many wagers along the lines: 7&14 w 7&14 w 5,6,11,18 and many variants to this. I'm also hearing about the 4, 8 and 9 horses as long-shots. Your thoughts, please.

[Devilwin]

Justify.....All the way!

[duketaylor]

Justify....All the way!

Please Justify why!!

[duketaylor]

Which Kentucky Derby horse has a Duke lean/influence?

[Devilwin]

I told ya!! Justify was a man among boys today. Stalked the leader all the way, made his move near the top of the stretch, and easily held off two pursuers.:cool:

[DevilHorse]

Well, here are the lines from the race, courtesy of Briswatch:
http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/instant.cgi?date=2018-05-05&track=CD&country=USA&race=12&type=inc&print=on

The weather reports, straight from the track, were off.. as was the track.
The horse with the Duke connection, Audible, did well but was a bit far back for a stalker and could not catch Justify who was leading almost all of the way.
The race went in a very fast first 1/4 of 45 4/5, which would normally doom any horse, but Justify was a tough competitor and our-ran his pedigree.

Being out of the sprint oriented, and ill-fated Scat Daddy, it would have been easy to doubt that he could stay a classic distance, especially going out that fast.
Although, the race was in a slow 2:04 1/5, that is easily attributable to the conditions.

Audible closed with a rail skimming trip to be 3rd, just missing 2nd by a head.

I imagine better conditions, and a smaller field in the Preakness will greatly improve Audible's chances.
I don't think that throwing in a rabbit will affect Justify much, but a closer trip will help Audible.

Mendelssohn will go back to Europe to lick his wounds but I expect he'll be back for the breeder's cup classic.

Larry
DevilHorse

[Devilwin]

Promises Fulfilled led most of the race. Justify took the lead with a half mile to go. Audible and Good Magic had nothing for him in the stretch. Like you said, HD, I believe the shorter Preakness could help Audible, but I am sticking with Justify. Seems I remember another horse that had a sprinter for a Daddy that did pretty good..

[DevilHorse]

Promises Fulfilled led most of the race. Justify took the lead with a half mile to go. Audible and Good Magic had nothing for him in the stretch. Like you said, HD, I believe the shorter Preakness could help Audible, but I am sticking with Justify. Seems I remember another horse that had a sprinter for a Daddy that did pretty good..

Justify may not have led the first mile, but he wasn't drafting. More like first over. Mike Smith and Justify came back looking clean from their race.
I don't know if Ghostzapper was the route runner that Princequillo was. Ghostzapper only sprinted at 2 and 3, although he did win his only 1 1/4 race.
Second BM sire of Justify was Pulpit, who I believe did not race at 2, but won each race up to the KY Derby and finished 4th and was injured/retired. But since he was out of A.P. Indy had license to go long.

Princequillo was considered to be one of the best long distance horses ever produced in this country. Secretariat could have been a great sprinter, distance horse, grass horse, whatever.. and he was.
Justify might be too..

Larry
DevilHorse

[Devilwin]

You are correct, there is no question Big Red got his staying power from Princequillo.

There's just something about Justify reminds me of him. Except for the rain and record time, the '73 Derby and this one were similar. Both saw the favorite win by two and a half over his rivals. Also, Secretariat broke dead last and began picking them off one by one.

[Devilwin]

What I meant was Secretariat breaking last was different.

[duketaylor]

Potential Triple Crown and very little interest. Lots of Duke spring sports have held some interest w baseball still ongoing, which is great. NHL is done and NBA appears close to done, which means we're down to racing, World Cup, golf and baseball til....
I think Justify got the worst post position possible for this race, not that it means he can't win, but may have a tougher trip. I'll bet some exotics as I always do and hope to hit one big, which I haven't. Love to hear from DevilHorse and others.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

What I meant was Secretariat breaking last was different.

It's funny....there's something about Secretariat that transcended horse racing. Because I care little for horse racing either way....rarely watch even the Triple Crown races, but I vividly remember Secretariat. I watched those three races. I was little at the time, but I watched and remembered.

I was also captivated by the back story, as represented in the outstanding film Secretariat. And I got goose bumps as they played a lot of actual footage of the TV coverage. I remember him pulling away down the stretch in the final leg. I'm not a vet or animal behaviorist, but it really seems clear that Secretariat understood the dynamic between he and Sham, knew something was final about the Belmont, and was determined to leave his mark on history. Amazing animals, all, and him above all of them.

[Troublemaker]

Potential Triple Crown and very little interest. Lots of Duke spring sports have held some interest w baseball still ongoing, which is great. NHL is done and NBA appears close to done, which means we're down to racing, World Cup, golf and baseball til...
I think Justify got the worst post position possible for this race, not that it means he can't win, but may have a tougher trip. I'll bet some exotics as I always do and hope to hit one big, which I haven't. Love to hear from DevilHorse and others.

I think American Pharaoh was still too recent for people to get excited about a Triple Crown.

Agree that it'll be tough for Justify. Since 1978, 13 out of 14 horses that won two legs of the Triple Crown couldn't win the Belmont to complete it.

[rasputin]

I think American Pharaoh was still too recent for people to get excited about a Triple Crown.

Agree that it'll be tough for Justify. Since 1978, 13 out of 14 horses that won two legs of the Triple Crown couldn't win the Belmont to complete it.

Nevertheless, Justify will make a spectacular bid.

[Troublemaker]

Nevertheless, Justify will make a spectacular bid.

No doubt. I'd take the field against him but wouldn't be shocked if he won. He'll probably try to go wire to wire and it's just a matter of whether his stamina can stave off someone like Hofburg catching him from behind.

[Devilwin]

I stayed with Justify all the way, and the big horse proved himself, winning wire to wire to become the 13th Triple Crown Champion! It was Justify against the field, and he was nearly perfect. I had a feeling about this horse since before the Derby, and he proved me right..
JUSTIFY!

[DevilHorse]

OK, here is a stretch.

There is a nice filly racing in the Del Mar Debutante Stakes on Saturday September 1, 2018 named Brill. Bill Brill was a favorite Dukie and contributor to the Duke dialog so why not note a horse that carries his name. With Audible on the shelf (at least till later in the year) why not keep the thread moving. I hope this JUSTIFYs a few comments.

here is a pointer to the Past Performances, courtesy of Briswatch.
http://www.brisnet.com/php/bw_pdf_viewer.php?track=DMR&race=4&param1=77&param2=2772&param3=548896
If this URL fails, go to this page and search for Brill and click on Ultimate PPs.
http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/briswatch.cgi/public/Darley/MEDAGLIA+D%27ORO/1999/summary.html


Larry
DevilHorse

[Devilwin]

She is rich in Secretariat blood. And Seattle Slew, Damascus.

[DevilHorse]

Audible is Back. The son of Into Mischief and Blue Devil Bel has been injured since the first Saturday in May and has been prepping for a comeback on Breeder's Cup day. Not in a Breeder's Cup race, but in the $200K Cherokee Run, Which is Saturday, Nov 3, 2018, at Churchill Downs, Race 2.
Here is the Past Performance, courtesy of Briswatch:http://www.brisnet.com/php/bw_pdf_viewer.php?track=CD&race=2&param1=270412&param2=1496&param3=204

Larry
DevilHorse

[DevilHorse]

Folks,

Audible had a nice return to the races, showing a middle move from 7th to first.
The co-high weight returned a nice $4.60 to bettors.

The race results are provided here, thanks to Brisnet:
http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/instant.cgi?date=2018-11-03&track=CD&country=USA&race=2&type=inc&print=on

Larry
DevilHorse

[DevilHorse]

Audible is in the box for Saturday December 15 2018, at Gulfstream Park, Race 5 Post 1, for the Harlan's Holiday Stakes.
Now, Harlan's Holiday happens to be the sire of Audible's sire Into Mischief so there is some kind of genetic loop, or irony going on here.
Harlan's Holiday has become a decent sire, and merits this race, which is a Grade 3, but is only for $100K.

The Past Performances are provided here by Brisnet for free:
http://www.brisnet.com/php/bw_pdf_viewer.php?track=GP&race=5&param1=1200&param2=4800&param3=716390

Audible should be a prohibitive favorite, although there is a chance of rain and Audible lost one of his 2 non-wins on a sloppy track (the KY Derby).

Larry
DevilHorse

[DevilHorse]

Audible is in the box for Saturday December 15 2018, at Gulfstream Park, Race 5 Post 1, for the Harlan's Holiday Stakes.
Now, Harlan's Holiday happens to be the sire of Audible's sire Into Mischief so there is some kind of genetic loop, or irony going on here.
Harlan's Holiday has become a decent sire, and merits this race, which is a Grade 3, but is only for $100K.

The Past Performances are provided here by Brisnet for free:
http://www.brisnet.com/php/bw_pdf_viewer.php?track=GP&race=5&param1=1200&param2=4800&param3=716390

Audible should be a prohibitive favorite, although there is a chance of rain and Audible lost one of his 2 non-wins on a sloppy track (the KY Derby).

Larry
DevilHorse


Audible finishes 2nd at 0.10 odds to a 25-1 shot. The slop could have had something to do with it.
Here are the race results, courtesy of Brisnet:
http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/instant.cgi?date=2018-12-15&track=GP&country=USA&race=5&type=inc&print=on

Larry
DevilHorse

[DevilHorse]

Audible is entered in the $9M Pegasus on Saturday 1/26/2019. Post 10 against 11 other competitors. If you finish, it is an easy $200K.

Here are the Past Performances, courtesy of Brisnet:
http://www.brisnet.com/php/bw_pdf_viewer.php?track=GP&race=12&param1=960&param2=2080&param3=1720188

If the direct URL above doesn't work, go to Todd Pletcher's page:
http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/briswatch.cgi/public/ToddPletcher/PLETCHER+TODD+A/9999/summary.html
Search for Audible
Click on "Ultimate PPs"

Larry
DevilHorse

[DevilHorse]

Audible is entered in the $9M Pegasus on Saturday 1/26/2019. Post 10 against 11 other competitors. If you finish, it is an easy $200K.

Here are the Past Performances, courtesy of Brisnet:
http://www.brisnet.com/php/bw_pdf_viewer.php?track=GP&race=12&param1=960&param2=2080&param3=1720188

If the direct URL above doesn't work, go to Todd Pletcher's page:
http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/briswatch.cgi/public/ToddPletcher/PLETCHER+TODD+A/9999/summary.html
Search for Audible
Click on "Ultimate PPs"

Larry
DevilHorse

Audible finishes 5th and wins $550,000.
The track was horrible.

Betters too took a bath.
The lines are shown here:
http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/instant.cgi?date=2019-01-26&track=GP&country=USA&race=12&type=inc&print=on

Larry
DevilHorse

[DevilHorse]

Audible is running in the Dubai World Cup

I don't have Past Performances (at the moment) but Audible is number 4.
Here is a list of post positions:
https://www.horseracingnation.com/race/2019_Dubai_World_Cup

It is likely to be on TV, so keep an eye out for it if interested.


The Dubai World Cup can be found on page 29 of this file, courtesy of Equibase:
http://www.equibase.com/content/rotd/dubai.pdf


Larry
DevilHorse

[DevilHorse]

Well, Audible will not be the favorite, but I think he is worth a bet.
Audible has lost 3 of his last 4 races.
But in his life, he has only raced on 3 off tracks (get the picture).
If he likes the fast going in Dubai, and he is in shape, he could do well.
He has won every race in his life on a fast track. Now that is an angle. Does it rain in the desert?

Larry
DevilHorse

[DevilHorse]

I thought I'd prime the pump before the Breeder's Cup with some (very early) Kentucky Derby 2020 talk.

I've seen a couple of very nice 2YOC so far this year (I'm sure there are a few I haven't seen).

Dennis' Moment - has had 3 starts. Lost a jockey, won by 19 lengths, won the Iroquois Stakes for fun. Nice Buzz on this one (Tiznow out of Elusive Quality mare (Secretariat connection). Dale Romans trains this one (affiliated with Blue Devil Racing).
http://www.brisnet.com/php/bw_pdf_viewer.php?track=CD&race=11&param1=6732&param2=952&param3=1488003

Today, a nice looking horse, owned by Giants/Patriots/Jets ex-Coach Bill Parcells (August Dawn Stable) is racing in the 3rd at Belmont.
He's named for a little town in the shadow of MetLife Stadium.
Moonachie had a blow-out initial race win at Saratoga, and is not the ML favorite today. Will be interesting.
http://www.brisnet.com/php/bw_pdf_viewer.php?track=BEL&race=3&param1=399762&param2=1863&param3=1380
Moonachie is by Central Banker (Speightstown) whose had a surprisingly good start to his stud career.

The 4 horse, City Man, is undefeated in this race too. A few of these Mucho Macho Man's can run. Both ponies are Stakes winners at Saratoga.
City Man is out of a City Zip mare, so we'll see if this colt is dominated by the long (MMM) or the short (CZ) of it.

Larry
DevilHorse

[DevilHorse]

I thought I'd prime the pump before the Breeder's Cup with some (very early) Kentucky Derby 2020 talk.

I've seen a couple of very nice 2YOC so far this year (I'm sure there are a few I haven't seen).

Dennis' Moment - has had 3 starts. Lost a jockey, won by 19 lengths, won the Iroquois Stakes for fun. Nice Buzz on this one (Tiznow out of Elusive Quality mare (Secretariat connection). Dale Romans trains this one (affiliated with Blue Devil Racing).
http://www.brisnet.com/php/bw_pdf_viewer.php?track=CD&race=11&param1=6732&param2=952&param3=1488003

Today, a nice looking horse, owned by Giants/Patriots/Jets ex-Coach Bill Parcells (August Dawn Stable) is racing in the 3rd at Belmont.
He's named for a little town in the shadow of MetLife Stadium.
Moonachie had a blow-out initial race win at Saratoga, and is not the ML favorite today. Will be interesting.
http://www.brisnet.com/php/bw_pdf_viewer.php?track=BEL&race=3&param1=399762&param2=1863&param3=1380
Moonachie is by Central Banker (Speightstown) whose had a surprisingly good start to his stud career.

The 4 horse, City Man, is undefeated in this race too. A few of these Mucho Macho Man's can run. Both ponies are Stakes winners at Saratoga.
City Man is out of a City Zip mare, so we'll see if this colt is dominated by the long (MMM) or the short (CZ) of it.

Larry
DevilHorse

Just as an update.
Moonachie broke late from the gate and scrambled to take the lead. But faltered in the stretch to finish 4th. There were 4 (nice) colts fighting in the stretch. Cleon Jones (any '69 Mets fans out there) won the race. I think we'll be hearing from these boys later this year.

Larry
DevilHorse