What's Next?

[Hauerwas]

I gotta say I have no idea what is next. We play UNC next, then a series of difficult games agains Va Tech, Syracuse, Louisville, at Va tech and at Ga tech followed by UNC at home. The homer in me says we roll all these teams but the way Duval has struggled at the point and Allens inability to take over as a sr leader is troubling on man unction to y fronts.

This team just makes me sad. We have enough talent to win it all, and yet we have enough dysfunction to lose to a 15 seed. Duval is currently a liability, would anyone disagree with this? I'd put Allen at the point and move Oconnell to the two with Trent, Bagley and Carter with Bolden or Javin first off the bench.

We must beat UNC twice, Va Tech twice and the close out Louisville and Ga Tech. We are good enough to win out, it just depends if K is willing to adjust his starting lineup. Allen should run the point, Duvall should sit. If you don't think so you literally haven't watched a game since November.

[UrinalCake]

I’ve watched every game and I don’t think starting Alex is the answer. It’s natural to want to make changes after a loss, but I imagine if we saw Alex play for 30 minutes then we’d see his flaws and wouldbe pining for somebody else to come in off the bench and fix all of our problems.

I like Alex but I think he’s being used in the correct role - scorer off the bench. Getting a few more minutes would be nice. Not sure if he still had the flu today or what, because Jack basically got all of his minutes.

As for what happens next, based on K’s reaction in the postgame it wouldn’t surprise me to hear about some sort of “players were exiled from the locker room” type of thing. As a fan I’m ready to turn the page and focus on our next game; winning this one would help my mood about this team considerably.

[uh_no]

what's next is we come out and beat the pants off Carolina.

these are not be players, and i don't think they're bad people, and I'd like to think they're disappointed in themselves.

the only thing to do is move forward, and the best way to do that is to respond on Thursday

[Ian]

Realistically? 5-3 or 6-2 in our final 8 games. Probably good enough for top 4 and a 1st round bye in the ACCT.

And honestly? Duke probably doesn't have enough talent to win it all. If by talent you also include things such as defensive instincts, mental discipline, decision making, etc. We have guards who aren't good decisions makers. We are consistently undisciplined in valuing posessions on offense, and I don't think I need to say more about our defense. What we have is potential, we have the best roster of NBA prospects on our team. Unfortunately for us a lot of that potential will be not realized until 2 to 3 years from now.

As we are currently, this collection of players is no where near ready to win in NCAA tournment, if this team right now went up against the same South Carolina team that beat us last year it would be the exact same result as last year.

[YmoBeThere]

Realistically? 5-3 or 6-2 in our final 8 games. Probably good enough for top 4 and a 1st round bye in the ACCT.

And honestly? Duke probably doesn't have enough talent to win it all. If by talent you also include things such as defensive instincts, mental discipline, decision making, etc. We have guards who aren't good decisions makers. We are consistently undisciplined in valuing posessions on offense, and I don't think I need to say more about our defense. What we have is potential, we have the best roster of NBA prospects on our team. Unfortunately for us a lot of that potential will be not realized until 2 to 3 years from now.

As we are currently, this collection of players is no where near ready to win in NCAA tournment, if this team right now went up against the same South Carolina team that beat us last year it would be the exact same result as last year.

We should just save everyone the time, phone it in, start folding up the uniforms and move on to papers, exams, jobs, careers and anything else other than this season. Dang, this is why we need the PPB. :p

[OldPhiKap]

What’s next? Carolina.

No worries, we got this.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

We should just save everyone the time, phone it in, start folding up the uniforms and move on to papers, exams, jobs, careers and anything else other than this season. Dang, this is why we need the PPB. :p

Kids could get back to focusing on classes. We would save all those travel expenses.

[Troublemaker]

I gotta say I have no idea what is next. We play UNC next, then a series of difficult games agains Va Tech, Syracuse, Louisville, at Va tech and at Ga tech followed by UNC at home. The homer in me says we roll all these teams but the way Duval has struggled at the point and Allens inability to take over as a sr leader is troubling on man unction to y fronts.

This team just makes me sad. We have enough talent to win it all, and yet we have enough dysfunction to lose to a 15 seed. Duval is currently a liability, would anyone disagree with this? I'd put Allen at the point and move Oconnell to the two with Trent, Bagley and Carter with Bolden or Javin first off the bench.

We must beat UNC twice, Va Tech twice and the close out Louisville and Ga Tech. We are good enough to win out, it just depends if K is willing to adjust his starting lineup. Allen should run the point, Duvall should sit. If you don't think so you literally haven't watched a game since November.

lol, very realistic. O'Connell will go from out of the rotation to starting. Duval will go from starting to 8th man. This will totally happen.

[SkyBrickey]

It's largely a mental thing right now - focus, intensity. I kept thinking during the first half how we seemed very content to just trade shots with St Johns and hold our 5-7 point lead.

Coach is a master psychologist and motivator. I still believe he has this team dialed in and playing a hard 40 minutes by the end of the year. Valuing the ball. Talking on defense. Winning 50/50 balls.

I'm not sure what the answer is to get Grayson going. It's one of the bigger mysteries in all my many years of watching Duke basketball. How can a guy who has had the career he has and dropped 37 on the #1 team in the country in spectacular fashion early in the year be struggling to score as much as he is? Bonus points to the staff if they can also get this solved by March...

[freshmanjs]

It's largely a mental thing right now - focus, intensity. I kept thinking during the first half how we seemed very content to just trade shots with St Johns and hold our 5-7 point lead.

Coach is a master psychologist and motivator. I still believe he has this team dialed in and playing a hard 40 minutes by the end of the year. Valuing the ball. Talking on defense. Winning 50/50 balls.

I'm not sure what the answer is to get Grayson going. It's one of the bigger mysteries in all my many years of watching Duke basketball. How can a guy who has had the career he has and dropped 37 on the #1 team in the country in spectacular fashion early in the year be struggling to score as much as he is? Bonus points to the staff if they can also get this solved by March...

Are there examples of teams that have significantly improved a turnover problem in the last month of the season?

[karmacoma]

I’ve watched every game and I don’t think starting Alex is the answer. It’s natural to want to make changes after a loss, but I imagine if we saw Alex play for 30 minutes then we’d see his flaws and wouldbe pining for somebody else to come in off the bench and fix all of our problems.

I like Alex but I think he’s being used in the correct role - scorer off the bench. Getting a few more minutes would be nice. Not sure if he still had the flu today or what, because Jack basically got all of his minutes.

As for what happens next, based on K’s reaction in the postgame it wouldn’t surprise me to hear about some sort of “players were exiled from the locker room” type of thing. As a fan I’m ready to turn the page and focus on our next game; winning this one would help my mood about this team considerably.

If (big if) a starting spot is up for grabs, even if just briefly to send a message, I agree, it's Trevon's spot. But starting Alex would mean rotating Grayson back to the point, which comes with trade-offs. Same with starting Jack.

I would think Jordan could get the nod if he has a great week of practice, again, if only to send a message in one spot start. That would be a pretty risky gamble in CH on Thursday, though, and I don't believe it's likely, and I'm not necessarily endorsing it. Just floating an idea that's not completely divorced from the realm of possibility.

The unfortunate reality is we have very few mix and match options with this backcourt, and the bench guys, though they've had some moments, are hard to envision thriving starting in a big rivalry game.

[Troublemaker]

Are there examples of teams that have significantly improved a turnover problem in the last month of the season?

The turnover problem is relatively recent though. For the season, we are still 72nd in the country with a 17.1% turnover rate. In ACC games only, we are 9th in the conference at a 17.8% turnover rate. It's just that in 4 of the past 6 games, we've had a 23+% turnover rate. (23% would rank as 340th in the country, if anyone's wondering). To me, the question is really whether there are examples of teams that just completely lose their ability to protect the ball midway through the season, and it lasts until the end of the season. Most likely, at this point, we can turn it around. But a few more games of 20+% turnover rates, and I will become skeptical.

[fuse]

We’re right at the one loss per freshman starter mark.

That three have been inexplicable, or bad, is the tough part.

The defense had looked to be improving.
Turnovers, lack of hustle and intensity, are a mystery.

The phase posts often refer to chemistry.
In the crazy come from behind early season wins, this team appeared to have good chemistry. After St. Johns, I’m not sure.

The chance to develop a killer instinct, to go from 5 up, to 10 up, to 20+ up have in some cases been squandered.

I believe this team can be special. What I believe doesn’t matter- what the team believes, matters.

[budwom]

I feel bad that we seem to be on the verge of squandering a season in which we have the best duo of big men we are likely to see for a long long time, perhaps ever.
I really thought we'd value the ball a whole lot more after the UVa loss, but that was wishful thinking.

[CajunDevil]

K will make it right... and Duke will win the Natty!

Day 1 starts today!

GTHC

[DukeDevilDeb]

Realistically? 5-3 or 6-2 in our final 8 games. Probably good enough for top 4 and a 1st round bye in the ACCT.

And honestly? Duke probably doesn't have enough talent to win it all. If by talent you also include things such as defensive instincts, mental discipline, decision making, etc. We have guards who aren't good decisions makers. We are consistently undisciplined in valuing posessions on offense, and I don't think I need to say more about our defense. What we have is potential, we have the best roster of NBA prospects on our team. Unfortunately for us a lot of that potential will be not realized until 2 to 3 years from now.

As we are currently, this collection of players is no where near ready to win in NCAA tournment, if this team right now went up against the same South Carolina team that beat us last year it would be the exact same result as last year.

What we are missing most with this team is experience... both experience as college players and experience at being part of a team. Many of these players were the go to guys in high school... and they have come to Duke where a fist wins more than 5 separate fingers. That is a very hard lesson to learn. Last year's team seemed to get it in the ACC tournament. Let's see if this year's guys can get it at all.

Go Devils!

[arnie]

We are very fortunate so far; we’ve been able to start the same 5 in every game this year. No significant injuries to the starting 5 and no subs out for the year. I can’t recall when that last happened.

Maybe if we avoid the injury bug, just the familiarity of roles can help in March. Grasping for straws?

[DukieInBrasil]

I gotta say I have no idea what is next. We play UNC next, then a series of difficult games agains Va Tech, Syracuse, Louisville, at Va tech and at Ga tech followed by UNC at home. The homer in me says we roll all these teams but the way Duval has struggled at the point and Allens inability to take over as a sr leader is troubling on man unction to y fronts.

This team just makes me sad. We have enough talent to win it all, and yet we have enough dysfunction to lose to a 15 seed. Duval is currently a liability, would anyone disagree with this? I'd put Allen at the point and move Oconnell to the two with Trent, Bagley and Carter with Bolden or Javin first off the bench.

We must beat UNC twice, Va Tech twice and the close out Louisville and Ga Tech. We are good enough to win out, it just depends if K is willing to adjust his starting lineup. Allen should run the point, Duvall should sit. If you don't think so you literally haven't watched a game since November.

I disagree with that. He's not playing as well now as he has at other times, and for some stretches of the game vs StJ's (and in a few others), yes he was a liability. But he also has 8 or 10 minutes stretches when he absolutely destroys the opponent.
I've watched every game since November and i don't think so. The problem is you're projecting your own interpretation on everyone else, like children do. Reality is much more nuanced than your emotional knee-jerk reaction to a frustrating loss. Duval should start alongside Grayson, but perhaps their roles should be changed some. As someone mentioned elsewhere, and with which i agree, Duval is fantastic in the open court but much less effective in half-court setting. Perhaps a better solution than benching Duval is focus on having Grayson initiate offense in the half-court set and let Duval thrive in the open court.
This team can be frustrating to watch, but it shouldn't make any grown person sad. These guys are still figuring things out, as 18 yr olds do. I certainly thought they would have learned some of the lessons of previous losses by now, but they are fallible humans, just like you or me.

[Rich]

I disagree with that. He's not playing as well now as he has at other times, and for some stretches of the game vs StJ's (and in a few others), yes he was a liability. But he also has 8 or 10 minutes stretches when he absolutely destroys the opponent.
I've watched every game since November and i don't think so. The problem is you're projecting your own interpretation on everyone else, like children do. Reality is much more nuanced than your emotional knee-jerk reaction to a frustrating loss. Duval should start alongside Grayson, but perhaps their roles should be changed some. As someone mentioned elsewhere, and with which i agree, Duval is fantastic in the open court but much less effective in half-court setting. Perhaps a better solution than benching Duval is focus on having Grayson initiate offense in the half-court set and let Duval thrive in the open court.
This team can be frustrating to watch, but it shouldn't make any grown person sad. These guys are still figuring things out, as 18 yr olds do. I certainly thought they would have learned some of the lessons of previous losses by now, but they are fallible humans, just like you or me.

OPK takes exception to that remark!

[OldPhiKap]

OPK takes exception to that remark!

He didn’t mention me. ;-)

Duval is a freshman and will make his mistakes. He is still out best option come March. That’s why he is getting reps now.

[Rich]

He didn’t mention me. ;-)

Duval is a freshman and will make his mistakes. He is still out best option come March. That’s why he is getting reps now.

Sigh, I guess OPK is fallible.

[dukelifer]

I gotta say I have no idea what is next. We play UNC next, then a series of difficult games agains Va Tech, Syracuse, Louisville, at Va tech and at Ga tech followed by UNC at home. The homer in me says we roll all these teams but the way Duval has struggled at the point and Allens inability to take over as a sr leader is troubling on man unction to y fronts.

This team just makes me sad. We have enough talent to win it all, and yet we have enough dysfunction to lose to a 15 seed. Duval is currently a liability, would anyone disagree with this? I'd put Allen at the point and move Oconnell to the two with Trent, Bagley and Carter with Bolden or Javin first off the bench.

We must beat UNC twice, Va Tech twice and the close out Louisville and Ga Tech. We are good enough to win out, it just depends if K is willing to adjust his starting lineup. Allen should run the point, Duvall should sit. If you don't think so you literally haven't watched a game since November.
I can’t say I am sad- I am resigned to the fact that most of the time a team that starts 4 Freshman - even Freshman who one day may be great pros cannot assemble in Sept and become a championship caliber team. On all other metrics- this team as done very well considering their youth. Duke will likely never see this duo of Freshman big men again. But the reality is that college ball depends on guards and a great guard has to be able to shoot the ball. One day Trevon will have to develop that skill set or he will be not playing basketball in the NBA. Freshman Duval is not a great guard now- he is like other Duke Freshman guards- a work in progress. The frustration has to be focused on Allen who either had an anomalous sophomore season or is struggling to find his role on this team. Whatever it is- the success of this team will depend on Allen.

[OldPhiKap]

Sigh, I guess OPK is fallible.

Damn Sporkz machine says I gotta spread love.

But since you knew me in college, you knew the answer to that already!

[NM Duke Fan]

I can’t say I am sad- I am resigned to the fact that most of the time a team that starts 4 Freshman - even Freshman who one day may be great pros cannot assemble in Sept and become a championship caliber team. On all other metrics- this team as done very well considering their youth. Duke will likely never see this duo of Freshman big men again. But the reality is that college ball depends on guards and a great guard has to be able to shoot the ball. One day Trevon will have to develop that skill set or he will be not playing basketball in the NBA. Freshm. an Duval is not a great guard now- he is like other Duke Freshman guards- a work in progress. The frustration has to be focused on Allen who either had an anomalous sophomore season or is struggling to find his role on this team. Whatever it is- the success of this team will depend on Allen.

I agree with everything you said! At times I wonder what is going on with Grayson, whether there is some lingering injury we don't know about, or whether he is going through challenging personal times, which can happen to us all. In any case, the fire and passion and offensive assertiveness from his Sophomore year could sure give this team a boost right now.

In terms of other tinkering, I would like to see a few more minutes from the one guard who often seems to be in the right place at the right time, great offensive basketball instincts and can go on a shooting streak.

With Duval perhaps he can be used in a way that emphasizes his open court strengths, but not sure how to do this at the moment.

In any case, this team has an incredible big man duo who only occasionally get the entry passes that are optimal. As others have said it is unlikely there will ever be another equal duo, and they are not being used to their max. If the guard play from Duval and Allen could come up to the level of the other 3 overall, this team still could win it all, with Bolden and the above mentioned guard as key reserves. But the clock is ticking and there are less than two handfuls of regular season games to make adjustments. What happens against Caroline this week could possibly define the course of the season, I would bet the coaching staff is working night and day to fine tune a team that still has immense potential...

[Grayson Redick]

“What’s next” for the Blue Devils has more to do with which referees are assigned than intensity levels, substitution patterns, and defensive strategies. ACC officiating is the absolute worst officiating in college basketball. As I watch mid-majors, SEC, and Big 12 regularly, it is less about the officiating and more about the teams on the court. ACC basketball, the last couple of years, has been controlled by the conflicts certain officials have when on assignment. The inability to call a fair game can take kids completely out of the contest impacting intensity levels, substitution patterns, and ultimately defensive strategies and has more to do with wins/losses than how the kids and coaches prepare. Yes, the same ACC officials I complain about are active in mid-majors and other conferences and therefore receive my praises. What falls apart when calling ACC games? John Swofford allows it and encourages it. At this point, shouldn’t we expect the worst from this guy?

Looking back at conference games since the beginning of last season (and including the ACC Tourney) it is interesting to see the number of games and the win/loss record certain officials are responsible for.

So here is “What’s next” for the Blue Devils in the UNC game based the numbers…If Cassell gets the assignment, we are in trouble. UNC is 5-0 with Cassell in stripes. I would assume that his connections with Miami is the reason he hasn’t called one of their games. Why is he allowed to work ACC games if he can’t ref all teams? UNC is 4-0 when Nestor is the ref. Duke is 1-0 in games that Cassell calls but only 1-3 when Nestor is in stripes. The only Duke victory was last year at Wake Forest where Nestor let the game get out of control and we won on a last second shot by Luke. It is doubtful Roberts gets assigned this game because UNC is 1-3 in games with him – however, Duke is only 2-2.

Noteworthy…O’Connell: UNC 3-1, Duke 0-2; Breeding: UNC 2-0, Duke 0-1; Clark: Duke 1-3, UNC 1-0; Covington, Jr.: Duke 4-1, UNC 2-3.

[gep]

I can’t say I am sad- I am resigned to the fact that most of the time a team that starts 4 Freshman - even Freshman who one day may be great pros cannot assemble in Sept and become a championship caliber team. On all other metrics- this team as done very well considering their youth. Duke will likely never see this duo of Freshman big men again. But the reality is that college ball depends on guards and a great guard has to be able to shoot the ball. One day Trevon will have to develop that skill set or he will be not playing basketball in the NBA. Freshman Duval is not a great guard now- he is like other Duke Freshman guards- a work in progress. The frustration has to be focused on Allen who either had an anomalous sophomore season or is struggling to find his role on this team. Whatever it is- the success of this team will depend on Allen.

To me, this is a large part of what is happening with Grayson. I would think that Grayson is doing what the coaches want. But with a PG, if he can do what he did in the Mich St game and his soph season, this will help a lot.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I’m so glad this thread exists. That way we can look back and laugh at in April.

I’ve said this many times... Each season is its own journey. This team is not yet a finished product and I believe we will find our footing and make a strong run. Just enjoy it. Because it’ll be gone too soon and we’ll be back to our off-season minutes argumentathon. That’s the only thing that makes me sad.

[Acymetric]

I disagree with that. He's not playing as well now as he has at other times, and for some stretches of the game vs StJ's (and in a few others), yes he was a liability. But he also has 8 or 10 minutes stretches when he absolutely destroys the opponent.
I've watched every game since November and i don't think so. The problem is you're projecting your own interpretation on everyone else, like children do. Reality is much more nuanced than your emotional knee-jerk reaction to a frustrating loss. Duval should start alongside Grayson, but perhaps their roles should be changed some. As someone mentioned elsewhere, and with which i agree, Duval is fantastic in the open court but much less effective in half-court setting. Perhaps a better solution than benching Duval is focus on having Grayson initiate offense in the half-court set and let Duval thrive in the open court.
This team can be frustrating to watch, but it shouldn't make any grown person sad. These guys are still figuring things out, as 18 yr olds do. I certainly thought they would have learned some of the lessons of previous losses by now, but they are fallible humans, just like you or me.

Grayson initiating in the half court makes a lot of sense (it gives him some opportunities to touch the ball in good position, and he is maybe a little less careless in his decision making). The problem is that Duval brings very little to the table without the ball in his hands, which makes us too easy to defend and is why he spends so much time with the ball in his hands (I beleive this is at least partly by design of the coaches even though I disagree with the strategy, not calling him a ball hog).

The problem with having Duval as a ball dominant PG is that it is not really the skill set we need on this kind of team. Everyone guy in the starting 5 can create for themselves, we don't need high risk-high reward play from anyone, especially the primary ball handler. Can he cut down on his mistakes? Certainly, as can the whole team (we have been mistake prone the last couple weeks). But I do not see his style changing, and there is nothing inherently wrong with his style. The problem is that it works best when you are the best or maybe second best player on the team and your risk-reward plays elevate teammates who need elevating to compete at an elite level. None of this applies to Duke, where he is 5th best (or 4th at best), and those risks reduce our potential offensive performance rather than enhance it.

This isn't a matter of Duval being a bad player, he is just a bad fit for the other pieces of our starting lineup. If he were a shooter the answer might be to share ball handling responsibilities a little more, but he isn't so it isn't likely to work much better. Up to the coaches to come up with an offensive scheme that works for these 5 guys. All of this is part of my explanation for why lineups of 4 starters + any player not named Duval tend to have higher plus-minuses than the 5 starters even though he is clearly better and brings more to the table in a general sense than any bench player we have.

Maybe a shorter way to say this: we have a poor man's Russ Westbrook running PG where what we really need is a poor man's Chris Paul/Steve Nash type for the team to thrive.

[Troublemaker]

I feel bad that we seem to be on the verge of squandering a season in which we have the best duo of big men we are likely to see for a long long time, perhaps ever.
I really thought we'd value the ball a whole lot more after the UVa loss, but that was wishful thinking.

Interesting juxtaposition of the two bolded items above. Because I can pretty much guarantee if we posted up less, we'd have fewer turnovers.

[moonpie23]

how many times did ST JOHNS take the ball away from the duke players yesterday?....right from their hands?

[Wander]

Duval should start alongside Grayson, but perhaps their roles should be changed some. As someone mentioned elsewhere, and with which i agree, Duval is fantastic in the open court but much less effective in half-court setting. Perhaps a better solution than benching Duval is focus on having Grayson initiate offense in the half-court set and let Duval thrive in the open court.

I was thinking this too. It could be somewhat like what happened with Jon Scheyer and Nolan Smith, which of course worked out great.

Of course, I'll say again that defense should still be our main concern over anything on offense.

[weezie]

...it’ll be gone too soon and we’ll be back to our off-season minutes argumentathon. That’s the only thing that makes me sad.

Clapping and nodding head. And reaching for another Super Bowl party celery stick.

Oh, ok, maybe a nacho or five. Could someone please bring me a beer?

[DukeDevilDeb]

I agree with everything you said! At times I wonder what is going on with Grayson, whether there is some lingering injury we don't know about, or whether he is going through challenging personal times, which can happen to us all. In any case, the fire and passion and offensive assertiveness from his Sophomore year could sure give this team a boost right now.

In terms of other tinkering, I would like to see a few more minutes from the one guard who often seems to be in the right place at the right time, great offensive basketball instincts and can go on a shooting streak.

With Duval perhaps he can be used in a way that emphasizes his open court strengths, but not sure how to do this at the moment.

In any case, this team has an incredible big man duo who only occasionally get the entry passes that are optimal. As others have said it is unlikely there will ever be another equal duo, and they are not being used to their max. If the guard play from Duval and Allen could come up to the level of the other 3 overall, this team still could win it all, with Bolden and the above mentioned guard as key reserves. But the clock is ticking and there are less than two handfuls of regular season games to make adjustments. What happens against Caroline this week could possibly define the course of the season, I would bet the coaching staff is working night and day to fine tune a team that still has immense potential...

I'm reading all these posts about sitting Duval and playing Grayson instead. But Grayson has been having lousy game after lousy game. The guy who won the 2015 NC isn't the guy on the floor wearing #3. I agree with your concern and it is haunting me a bit. But I bet it is haunting Grayson too!

Go Devils!

[duke4ever19]

1.Grayson needs to be close to the Grayson who ate Mich. St. for lunch, or at the very least, contributing around 17-18 points a game, not 8-9 points a game.

2. The Duke defense needs to start performing at a top-20 level

3. We need to take better care of the ball


If these three things happen, I think we win the Natty. Those three things take down UVA for sure and I'm not too scared of Nova or Purdue.

[Furniture]

To simplify it. If we have 9 or 10 or 11 turnovers instead of 18 don’t we win?
Even Duval can have his 4. He is the point guard and my logic tells me that if some should have more turnovers it should be the point guard. Anyway. If Grayson, Bags, Wendell and Gary do better TO wise we win......what do I know?

[Saratoga2]

If (big if) a starting spot is up for grabs, even if just briefly to send a message, I agree, it's Trevon's spot. But starting Alex would mean rotating Grayson back to the point, which comes with trade-offs. Same with starting Jack.

I would think Jordan could get the nod if he has a great week of practice, again, if only to send a message in one spot start. That would be a pretty risky gamble in CH on Thursday, though, and I don't believe it's likely, and I'm not necessarily endorsing it. Just floating an idea that's not completely divorced from the realm of possibility.

The unfortunate reality is we have very few mix and match options with this backcourt, and the bench guys, though they've had some moments, are hard to envision thriving starting in a big rivalry game.

I disagree with the idea of sittin Trevon. He is our best ball handler and quickest player. I don't see Grayson as a PG and would consider cutting his PT and Trevon's and getting O'Connell in for 10 minutes or so, although he is still pretty green himself.

[gofurman]

Realistically? 5-3 or 6-2 in our final 8 games. Probably good enough for top 4 and a 1st round bye in the ACCT.

And honestly? Duke probably doesn't have enough talent to win it all. If by talent you also include things such as defensive instincts, mental discipline, decision making, etc. We have guards who aren't good decisions makers. We are consistently undisciplined in valuing posessions on offense, and I don't think I need to say more about our defense. What we have is potential, we have the best roster of NBA prospects on our team. Unfortunately for us a lot of that potential will be not realized until 2 to 3 years from now.

As we are currently, this collection of players is no where near ready to win in NCAA tournment, if this team right now went up against the same South Carolina team that beat us last year it would be the exact same result as last year.

I was thinking the same thing - a tough defensive team would be scary. But we held up against UVA who is better than SC. But that was at Cameron

[dukelifer]

I disagree with the idea of sittin Trevon. He is our best ball handler and quickest player. I don't see Grayson as a PG and would consider cutting his PT and Trevon's and getting O'Connell in for 10 minutes or so, although he is still pretty green himself.

I would actually like to see Jack. He understands the D and has more size and strength than AOC.

[dukelifer]

how many times did ST JOHNS take the ball away from the duke players yesterday?...right from their hands?

Too many times

[Devilwin]

This team mystifies me. Gone are the days when some were talking "40 and 0" tattoos. Most talented team we've ever had, most likely, but they certainly are not living up to the preseason hype. Freshmen are going to make mistakes, true. But they must learn from them as well, and this group simply is not.
The defense comes and goes. We are easy to get to the rim on, and with Bagley and Carter in there that should not be the case. And the turnovers? Most are just a lack of focus or trying to do too much. Free throw shooting is nothing to brag about either. And the deal with Grayson is really confusing. Is the kid just trying too hard, or is he overwhelmed with the leadership duties?
Whatever the problems are, they need fixing right away. I can see this team winning it all, or tanking early. The regular season title is almost certainly gone. If they get it together, they can win the ACC Tourney, and make a deep run in the NCAA tournament. I think the entire thing hinges on playing as a team. There is too much "me against the world" play going on. They begin to do what they are capable of, we could be on our way. They don't, it could be a real big disappointment this season.

[SkyBrickey]

I think we were all seeing good progress on our D. Then St Johns happened. Freshmen. It's mental - focus and intensity. It carried over to ballhandling and turnovers. I expect us to be back on our A game against the Heels.

[Devilwin]

I think we were all seeing good progress on our D. Then St Johns happened. Freshmen. It's mental - focus and intensity. It carried over to ballhandling and turnovers. I expect us to be back on our A game against the Heels.

We can win Thursday for sure. Talent wise, we are superior to them, and it's not even close. But we MUST play as a team, make our free throws (if we get any, we are at their place), and for God's sake cut down on turnovers! Do these things, we win. Don't, and it could be ugly..

[jv001]

I'm reading all these posts about sitting Duval and playing Grayson instead. But Grayson has been having lousy game after lousy game. The guy who won the 2015 NC isn't the guy on the floor wearing #3. I agree with your concern and it is haunting me a bit. But I bet it is haunting Grayson too!

Go Devils!

In the Duke half court offense, Grayson is the best at getting the ball to our big men. In Duke's fast break, most of the time Tre is the best with the ball in his hands. As for defense, Tre has not been the great on the ball defender I expected him to be. With his skill sets he should be a lights out defender. Grayson has actually been the best defender among our guards but he should be because he's a senior. I'm not for sitting Tre but I am hoping the coaching staff can get Trevon up to par on how to run the point guard position successfully. GoDuke!

[thedukelamere]

I'm not for sitting Tre but I am hoping the coaching staff can get Trevon up to par on how to run the point guard position successfully. GoDuke!

Much like M2M vs zone, I think sitting Tre would be a disservice to our long-term success... Better to take our lumps and allow the young gun to learn from his mistakes. In my opinion, part of Tre's problem is that, as he's trying to figure out when and where to insert himself and take over, the other 4 guys on the court are also trying to figure the same thing out. This confusion makes him a half second too slow or too fast on his passes, which leads to those frustrating 7-8 minute stretches where we are completely out of sync and/or everyone is playing 1 on 1 ball. We're lucky that we have exceptional athletes and that one of them can take over and score a few baskets on talent alone (as Tre did to keep us in the game down the stretch), but we aren't at final boss offensive Juggernaut level unless all 5 are N'Sync.

[elvis14]

I wasn't sure I was going to respond to this post at all and I really don't want to say anything stupid (I think that's been taken care of) but since I have some thoughts, I'll share them. One thing I will say is that I'm trying hard not to overreact to Saturday's loss to St. Johns but let's not kid ourselves, that's a really bad loss, I mean it's Wofford or maybe even Lander bad.



This team just makes me sad. We have enough talent to win it all, and yet we have enough dysfunction to lose to a 15 seed. Duval is currently a liability, would anyone disagree with this? I'd put Allen at the point and move Oconnell to the two with Trent, Bagley and Carter with Bolden or Javin first off the bench.

We must beat UNC twice, Va Tech twice and the close out Louisville and Ga Tech. We are good enough to win out, it just depends if K is willing to adjust his starting lineup. Allen should run the point, Duvall should sit. If you don't think so you literally haven't watched a game since November.

There are two bolded sentences above. I strongly disagree with the first bolded sentence. No, Duval is absolutely 100% not a liability at this point. Are there area's I'd like to see him improve? Of course, he's a freshman point guard. He had a brilliant couple of minutes on Saturday. The rest of the game, not so much. I spent the first half trying to figure out what was up and finally just realized that Duval was just not in sync with anyone else on the court. But, I'm not gong to overreact and claim that he's a liability because his last game was pretty bad or because he has some rough stretches during games. The second bolded sentence is complete BS and shouldn't be put on DBR. I'm sorry but the contention that if we don't agree with your ridiculous hyperbole means we haven't been paying attention is just pure crap (and that's the nice version of that sentence to avoid the wankerizer).


I disagree with that. He's not playing as well now as he has at other times, and for some stretches of the game vs StJ's (and in a few others), yes he was a liability. But he also has 8 or 10 minutes stretches when he absolutely destroys the opponent.
I've watched every game since November and i don't think so. The problem is you're projecting your own interpretation on everyone else, like children do. Reality is much more nuanced than your emotional knee-jerk reaction to a frustrating loss. Duval should start alongside Grayson, but perhaps their roles should be changed some. As someone mentioned elsewhere, and with which i agree, Duval is fantastic in the open court but much less effective in half-court setting. Perhaps a better solution than benching Duval is focus on having Grayson initiate offense in the half-court set and let Duval thrive in the open court.
This team can be frustrating to watch, but it shouldn't make any grown person sad. These guys are still figuring things out, as 18 yr olds do. I certainly thought they would have learned some of the lessons of previous losses by now, but they are fallible humans, just like you or me.

DukieInBrasil's response is fantastic on every front. I like the idea of having Grayson run point more in half court sets. One thing I've noticed is that our team plays well and, IMHO more consistently with Grayson at the point. I still think our ceiling (which is not the roof) is higher with Duval as our PG, however. I will admit that I liked the lineup with Grayson, Trent, White at the 1, 2, 3...if Jack can play good defense and rebound and I think the line up provides a great change of pace from our starting lineup (same for Javin in that 3 spot if he's playing well). I think having Duval sit out some and collect himself is helpful. Of course, I also think having Grayson sub out a little and collect himself (and maybe remind him to be an attack dog) would also be helpful. Mostly, as I try to forget about Saturday's debacle, I just hope we keep getting better overall heading into the tournaments.

Oh and 9F, this week, next week, every week.

[Dukebasketball2020]

This team has a lot of issues that need to be corrected.
1. We are turning the ball over way to much I can deal with 10 turnovers a game but when we have 18 and 8-10 of them are bonehead horrible passes those kill you.
2. Free throw shooting has to get better (This is directed towards bagley, carter and duval), if Duval is going to continue to be as bad as he is then he needs to sit during crunch time if the game is close, I did like how he decided to turn it on at the end of the game and be aggressive he needs to be like that all the time tho.
3. Grayson needs to find it and start looking to score instead of sitting back doing nothing lately. If he is going to continue to play the way he has this team won't make it very far.
4. Defense needs to improve, it starts with the helpside defense and defending the 3 point line. Duval is a bad defender, carter is out of position at times as well.

[jv001]

I wasn't sure I was going to respond to this post at all and I really don't want to say anything stupid (I think that's been taken care of) but since I have some thoughts, I'll share them. One thing I will say is that I'm trying hard not to overreact to Saturday's loss to St. Johns but let's not kid ourselves, that's a really bad loss, I mean it's Wofford or maybe even Lander bad.



There are two bolded sentences above. I strongly disagree with the first bolded sentence. No, Duval is absolutely 100% not a liability at this point. Are there area's I'd like to see him improve? Of course, he's a freshman point guard. He had a brilliant couple of minutes on Saturday. The rest of the game, not so much. I spent the first half trying to figure out what was up and finally just realized that Duval was just not in sync with anyone else on the court. But, I'm not gong to overreact and claim that he's a liability because his last game was pretty bad or because he has some rough stretches during games. The second bolded sentence is complete BS and shouldn't be put on DBR. I'm sorry but the contention that if we don't agree with your ridiculous hyperbole means we haven't been paying attention is just pure crap (and that's the nice version of that sentence to avoid the wankerizer).



DukieInBrasil's response is fantastic on every front. I like the idea of having Grayson run point more in half court sets. One thing I've noticed is that our team plays well and, IMHO more consistently with Grayson at the point. I still think our ceiling (which is not the roof) is higher with Duval as our PG, however. I will admit that I liked the lineup with Grayson, Trent, White at the 1, 2, 3...if Jack can play good defense and rebound and I think the line up provides a great change of pace from our starting lineup (same for Javin in that 3 spot if he's playing well). I think having Duval sit out some and collect himself is helpful. Of course, I also think having Grayson sub out a little and collect himself (and maybe remind him to be an attack dog) would also be helpful. Mostly, as I try to forget about Saturday's debacle, I just hope we keep getting better overall heading into the tournaments.

Oh and 9F, this week, next week, every week.

Neals +/- agrees with the bolded. That lineup was used for over 4 minutes and was a team leading +4(+39 per 40). But like I said, I don't think benching Tre completely is the answer. But let him sit when he turns the ball over. Our best point guard ever, Bobby Hurley had to go through some tough teaching moments. Too bad Tre won't hav 4 years to get it right. :cool: GoDuke!

[AtlDuke72]

I gotta say I have no idea what is next. We play UNC next, then a series of difficult games agains Va Tech, Syracuse, Louisville, at Va tech and at Ga tech followed by UNC at home. The homer in me says we roll all these teams but the way Duval has struggled at the point and Allens inability to take over as a sr leader is troubling on man unction to y fronts.

This team just makes me sad. We have enough talent to win it all, and yet we have enough dysfunction to lose to a 15 seed. Duval is currently a liability, would anyone disagree with this? I'd put Allen at the point and move Oconnell to the two with Trent, Bagley and Carter with Bolden or Javin first off the bench.

We must beat UNC twice, Va Tech twice and the close out Louisville and Ga Tech. We are good enough to win out, it just depends if K is willing to adjust his starting lineup. Allen should run the point, Duvall should sit. If you don't think so you literally haven't watched a game since November.
I don’t know how anyone could watch the last 10 minutes of the St. John’s game and reach the conclusion that Duval should be benched or that Allen should run the point.

[WVDUKEFAN]

I watched the halftime show during the Syracuse vs. Louisville game. There was a consensus that Grayson Allen needs to be more involved offensively. I've been saying that for weeks as well. It's been suggested he step up and be a leader since he's the senior. The only way he can do that is to be more involved. I agree with some of the other posters who suggest Grayson runs the half court offense better than Trevon. I think he does as well (most of the time). There are also times when Trevon looks spectacular. We just to get that Trevon more often.

I'm not drinking the Jack White Kool Aid just yet. He had a good game against Notre Dame, with 7 boards and 5 points in 14 minutes. He really didn't do much against St. Johns.

Javin D- started the season really strong. I thought he was our No. 6 man. I don't know what is going on with his play.

Marqes Bolden- I thought he had a solid performance in 10 minutes on Saturday. Rebounds, blocks, and a couple of nice put backs. He can definitely spell Bags and Wendell.

Alex O'C- ? I'm guessing he's fighting an illness? A major decline in minutes the past 3 games.

[elvis14]

I'm not drinking the Jack White Kool Aid just yet. He had a good game against Notre Dame, with 7 boards and 5 points in 14 minutes. He really didn't do much against St. Johns.

Javin D- started the season really strong. I thought he was our No. 6 man. I don't know what is going on with his play.

Marqes Bolden- I thought he had a solid performance in 10 minutes on Saturday. Rebounds, blocks, and a couple of nice put backs. He can definitely spell Bags and Wendell.

Alex O'C- ? I'm guessing he's fighting an illness? A major decline in minutes the past 3 games.

I wouldn't say that I'm all in on the Jack White Kool Aid but I'd like to see him get some more court time. I was very curious to see what he'd do Saturday after his big game against ND so when Jack was on the court I focussed on him and not on the ball. What I saw was a guy that was playing defense and moving his feet. He took and missed 1 shot but it was the right shot to take. I'm not saying "bench Duval and give JW 20 more minutes of playing time" or anything like that. But I do think it would be good to have a few more minutes of Jack when we rest guys. Or to put it another way, I'd like to see us give Jack his shot at significant minutes and see what happens. Maybe he's not ready, or maybe we get better. I also think that Duval (and Grayson) benefits from taking a break to get himself together during games (win-win).

I agree with your take on the other 3 guys. Hope AOC gets healthy and ready, I like his game on the offensive end of the court and it never hurts to have shooters (he defense does need to improve but that's the whole team just about).

[BeachBlueDevil]

I've watched 90% of all the games this year and I've seen Duval struggle and Allen struggle. Both have perplexed me at times and other times I can see why they are struggling. I feel in watching all these games that I've noticed is the offense (in my opinion) seems to flow better when Duval is out of the game a Allen is doing most of the ball handling. I think it allows Allen to be more of a playmaker instead of waiting for someone to get him the ball. I'd be interesting to see what Allen's offensive efficiency is when Duval is in the game and when he's out. Also when Duval is out it allows for one more shooter to come in (AOC) and makes this defenses respect the perimeter a little more.

Now I think the biggest hindrance to Allen and Duval overall is also what our biggest strength is and that's Bagley and Carter. Two big bodies down low make it difficult for two guys who excel at the dribble drive to get into the lane. If this was a traditional Duke offense who played small ball, Allen and Duval would be considered one of the best backcourts in the country at this point.

[jv001]

I've watched 90% of all the games this year and I've seen Duval struggle and Allen struggle. Both have perplexed me at times and other times I can see why they are struggling. I feel in watching all these games that I've noticed is the offense (in my opinion) seems to flow better when Duval is out of the game a Allen is doing most of the ball handling. I think it allows Allen to be more of a playmaker instead of waiting for someone to get him the ball. I'd be interesting to see what Allen's offensive efficiency is when Duval is in the game and when he's out. Also when Duval is out it allows for one more shooter to come in (AOC) and makes this defenses respect the perimeter a little more.

Now I think the biggest hindrance to Allen and Duval overall is also what our biggest strength is and that's Bagley and Carter. Two big bodies down low make it difficult for two guys who excel at the dribble drive to get into the lane. If this was a traditional Duke offense who played small ball, Allen and Duval would be considered one of the best backcourts in the country at this point.

Both you and Elvis make good points. I think Duke's zone is better with Alex or Jack up top. They are both taller and seem to "get it" when it comes to playing the zone. Part of Tre's problem seems to be he goes for the steal and get's out of position too many times. Gary has that same problem. If Tre could be the playmaking point guard and use his speed to get into lane when it is open, he could really help our offense and cut down on the turnovers. But so far he has not done that in the half court set. At the end of the St. John's game, he was able to get a running start before the defense was fully set up and he made some terrific plays. I think the success of this team rests with defense and Tre's development as a top notch point guard. I don't think Grayson's shooting is as important. Yes, it's important but we have 4 other guys that have the potential to score 14-30 points in any game. GoDuke!

[CDu]

Both you and Elvis make good points. I think Duke's zone is better with Alex or Jack up top. They are both taller and seem to "get it" when it comes to playing the zone. Part of Tre's problem seems to be he goes for the steal and get's out of position too many times. Gary has that same problem. If Tre could be the playmaking point guard and use his speed to get into lane when it is open, he could really help our offense and cut down on the turnovers. But so far he has not done that in the half court set. At the end of the St. John's game, he was able to get a running start before the defense was fully set up and he made some terrific plays. I think the success of this team rests with defense and Tre's development as a top notch point guard. I don't think Grayson's shooting is as important. Yes, it's important but we have 4 other guys that have the potential to score 14-30 points in any game. GoDuke!

I don't agree about White or O'Connell being better fits up high in the zone. Duval and Allen are FANTASTIC guards in the zone. Where they are less effective is in man-to-man defense. They are both better than O'Connell (who is pretty bad defensively right now) and White (who is best suited to play PF, not guard) on the perimeter of the zone.

[uh_no]

I wouldn't say that I'm all in on the Jack White Kool Aid but I'd like to see him get some more court time.

....and a 115 point win against the heels coming up :) :)

[devildeac]

...and a 115 point win against the heels coming up :) :)

I'd be delighted with Duke-82, cheaters-50 but would "settle" for a larger margin. :D

[kako]

What's Next? My crystal ball says:

1. We beat the Heels. Twice. 9F. Even with Duke's issues, the Devils should win. Bagley and Carter dominate, UNC cannot stop them. This is what players come to Duke for - to play in this rivalry. Carolina has been in a tailspin, and Duke has had 5 days to stew on the SJU debacle. Strange things can happen when it's Duke/UNC, but not this time. And Duke at home should be a sweet ending to the season.

2. Duval will continue to start. I'd be surprised if K makes this change. Allen isn't truly the answer - he wasn't so effective last year as PG and hasn't improved enough this year. Will this limit Duke in the tourney? Probably. No Duke team has ever won the tourney without a stellar PG (some kind of All-American), and there isn't one this year. I hope I am dead wrong.

3. Allen finds his shot. Not sure when, but it will happen. Recall Scheyer lost his shot in 2010 but eventually found it. I also recall JD had temporary issues. Good shooters can go through slumps. Allen will find his, though that probably won't mean 20+ppg...

4. Duke will likely go 5-2 down the stretch. Clemson away will be tough. VaTech, Cuse or Ville could all clip Duke. Duke could win the ACC tourney, but UVA would have to be upset to do so.

5. Bagley gets POY, ACC and National. If Carter can continue his play, he may get 2nd team AA. Duke gets 3 players 1st/2nd All ACC.

As a wise man has said, all predictions guaranteed wrong or your money back.

[Kedsy]

No Duke team has ever won the tourney without a stellar PG (some kind of All-American), and there isn't one this year. I hope I am dead wrong.

You are dead wrong. Tyus Jones was no kind of All American. Bobby Hurley was All American in 1993 but not in 1991 or 1992, and Jon Scheyer was really a combo guard playing point because that's all we had.

[kako]

You are dead wrong. Tyus Jones was no kind of All American. Bobby Hurley was All American in 1993 but not in 1991 or 1992, and Jon Scheyer was really a combo guard playing point because that's all we had.

I stand corrected (though Scheyer was an AA and Hurley & Jones were All ACC and, well, Hurley was Hurley). But I guess my point is still that the other teams had much more solid PGs. Maybe you have to go back to Capel to find Duke as iffy at PG for any FF team under K. But team had GHill so it still worked... Anyway what I hope I'm dead wrong about is the NCAAs. Maybe things can gel - but I just can't see it now. Then again I wouldn't put it past K, as I didn't see Casey Sanders coming, either.

[Troublemaker]

I stand corrected (though Scheyer was an AA and Hurley & Jones were All ACC and, well, Hurley was Hurley). But I guess my point is still that the other teams had much more solid PGs. Maybe you have to go back to Capel to find Duke as iffy at PG for any FF team under K. But team had GHill so it still worked... Anyway what I hope I'm dead wrong about is the NCAAs. Maybe things can gel - but I just can't see it now. Then again I wouldn't put it past K, as I didn't see Casey Sanders coming, either.

I think you're fundamentally correct.
(1) We'll need Trevon to improve his level in Feb and March, but he probably will still lag behind the other PGs you mentioned.
(2) We'll need the other unusual aspects of this team -- e.g. the post tandem of Carter/Bagley -- to make up for the lack of a great PG.

One thing I do not agree with, which was suggested upthread (not by you), is benching Trevon. I did not sit through the January version of Trevon to not find out whether those reps can help him raise his level in Feb and March. I also don't make home-cooked meals and then not eat them. I'd rather bench Bagley, lol.