UNC's Jalek Felton has been suspended

[Duke95]

Not much other info as to why.

https://scout.com/college/north-carolina/Article/UNC-G-Jalek-Felton-Suspended-114401678

[chrishoke]

Sounds like he is out of school: "Felton is now ineligible to "participate in any University activities."

[Troublemaker]

Time to transfer, Jalek. Don't let them keep you 4 years using shenanigans. Scouts are intrigued by your size at PG.

[Pghdukie]

Must have missed an AFAM class !

[CameronBornAndBred]

Must have missed an AFAM class !

That doesn't get you suspended; you only have to run laps.

[luburch]

Must have missed an AFAM class !

Perhaps he didn't get the memo and actually attended class.

[UrinalCake]

Getting suspended from a no-show class? That's like being fired on your day off.

[chrishoke]

Money qoute from IC: "I wonder who’s gonna pick up his turnovers?"

[chrishoke]

IC also said there were rumors he wasn't going to class. LOL.

[Kfanarmy]

Perhaps he didn't get the memo and actually attended class.

That might earn a non-team player disciplinary action. This is bigger...Perhaps he showed up for a scheduled exam?

[Kfanarmy]

Money qoute from IC: "I wonder who’s gonna pick up his turnovers?"

Thanks for sharing. That is awesome...well done to whomever.

[UrinalCake]

Over the summer there was speculation that he might not even qualify to start in the fall; apparently he had to take some high school summer classes in order to gain eligibility. So if I had to make a completely uninformed guess, I'd have to assume this is academically-related. It could be anything though; hopefully nothing more serious as I would prefer that nobody is hurt and that I can continue to poke fun at him.

[plimnko]

IC also said there were rumors he wasn't going to class. LOL.

wouldn't it be more of a rumor if he actually DID go to class?

[gofurman]

does this really hurt them? i know it says he played 10 minutes a game but it appears in acc play it was more like 5 minutes a game... 2 points..

[UrinalCake]

Interesting that he was suspended by the university and not by the team.

I don't think it really hurts them that much, he wasn't playing much and apparently wasn't playing well even when he did play. Could have a bigger impact for next season depending on how this all plays out. Seventh Woods is still injured so the biggest thing is that they don't have a backup point guard other than Pinson.

[PackMan97]

Let's be serious, we all know why he was suspended. He's comitted the unforgiveable sin.

4* recruit, Top 30 in some ranking, if he's averaging less than 3 ppg it's clear he's got his priorities out of whack and has been spending too much time in class! That can not be tolerated.

The wording sounds a lot like when State suspended Markell Johnson due to being charged with a felony. That would be a shame if it were true. Typical run of the mill stuff doesn't get you suspended from univeristy activities.

[Truth&Justise]

does this really hurt them? i know it says he played 10 minutes a game but it appears in acc play it was more like 5 minutes a game... 2 points..

Doesn't make a huge difference this season, though with Seventh Woods injured it means Pinson is probably the backup point guard. Neither he nor Berry will get much rest at all.

This is more about the future. Felton was a five-star recruit, and possibly the heir apparent to Berry (along with Woods). As you noted he had gotten off to a disappointing start to the season, but this really cements this as a failed first year. Lots of people are speculating he might transfer.

Playing UNC twice ever year, and sadly seeing them play a number of recent games in March, we know how important it is for Roy's teams to have a good point guard. Now that all rests on the shoulders of Woods, who was uninspiring in the 7 games he played this year. They are bringing in a highly rated guard in Coby White, but my understanding is that he is more of an off guard.

So: in the short term, it means UNC's backcourt depth is stretched further. In the long term, the next year or two could be rough for them without a true PG.

[El_Diablo]

Felton's minutes had plummeted recently (which Roy attributed to his play, specifically his defense and turnovers). But Berry's extended comments after the Clemson game about having to play tired and shoulder the load at PG are starting to make more sense, especially this part: “If one person -- no matter who it is, from the top person all of the way down to the walk-ons -- if someone is not in tune to what we’re doing and not doing what we’re supposed to do, that can mess up a whole dream." In context it seemed he was talking about Felton, especially because he then mentioned how it is good whenever Felton can find a way to come in and provide "good minutes" for the team. And FWIW, Felton refused to shake Berry's hand when being subbed out in the VT game.

I assume the reason for the suspension will come out soon enough, but whatever it is, there seemed to be some issues simmering beneath the surface for a little while now.

[MChambers]

Doesn't make a huge difference this season, though with Seventh Woods injured it means Pinson is probably the backup point guard. Neither he nor Berry will get much rest at all.

This is more about the future. Felton was a five-star recruit, and possibly the heir apparent to Berry (along with Woods). As you noted he had gotten off to a disappointing start to the season, but this really cements this as a failed first year. Lots of people are speculating he might transfer.

Playing UNC twice ever year, and sadly seeing them play a number of recent games in March, we know how important it is for Roy's teams to have a good point guard. Now that all rests on the shoulders of Woods, who was uninspiring in the 7 games he played this year. They are bringing in a highly rated guard in Coby White, but my understanding is that he is more of an off guard.

So: in the short term, it means UNC's backcourt depth is stretched further. In the long term, the next year or two could be rough for them without a true PG.

Transfer? I thought UNC never had transfers? :-)

[UrinalCake]

It does seem like there was unhappiness from Felton and that his recent play has been poor... but that doesn't get you suspended from the university. Missing or even failing a class might get you suspended from the team (except at UNC, LOL) but not from the university. So we'll have to see what information comes out.

[tbyers11]

It does seem like there was unhappiness from Felton and that his recent play has been poor... but that doesn't get you suspended from the university. Missing or even failing a class might get you suspended from the team (except at UNC, LOL) but not from the university. So we'll have to see what information comes out.

Yeah, all the hubbub about unhappiness (conduct detrimental type stuff) or missing class would be a team suspension.

Suspension for academics (from the university) typically comes at semester when grades are calculated.

Agree there seems to be more the story.

[Matches]

They are royally screwed if something happens to Berry.

They already were, to some extent, but even moreso now.

[El_Diablo]

Yeah, all the hubbub about unhappiness (conduct detrimental type stuff) or missing class would be a team suspension.

Suspension for academics (from the university) typically comes at semester when grades are calculated.

Agree there seems to be more the story.

I agree. My point was that whatever happened, it seemed to have been affecting him and might have been weighing on team chemistry as well. Being suspended by the school (not Roy) and given the timing (well after first semester grades come out), it seems like this could be an honor code violation or a personal conduct issue...things that typically have to go through some sort of adjudicatory process.

[wavedukefan70s]

Transfer? I thought UNC never had transfers? :-)

Is it still a transfer if the school kicks you out?I mean,it's not like you have a choice.do you have to sit out a year?

[BD80]

It does seem like there was unhappiness from Felton and that his recent play has been poor... but that doesn't get you suspended from the university. Missing or even failing a class might get you suspended from the team (except at UNC, LOL) but not from the university. So we'll have to see what information comes out.

Think of how bad this must be.

According to unc precedent: no "punishment" for missing classes or turning in plagiarized work, that is just SOP.

Possession of drugs, driving extravagant vehicles "loaned" to you, etc. = losing the privilege to select where the team eats a meal.

To be suspended? He must have done something HORRIBLE! Maybe he cooperated with NCAA investigators?

[UrinalCake]

Getting arrested for speeding while driving a rental car paid for by a convicted felon with an automatic weapon and marijuana in the car = running extra laps

Beating up a walkon teammate to the extent of concussion = one week suspension during a bye week

20 years of fake classes = athletic show cause for a retired professor

So yeah, I can’t fathom what you’d have to do to get suspended from that black hole of morality.

[Matches]

I agree. My point was that whatever happened, it seemed to have been affecting him and might have been weighing on team chemistry as well. Being suspended by the school (not Roy) and given the timing (well after first semester grades come out), it seems like this could be an honor code violation or a personal conduct issue...things that typically have to go through some sort of adjudicatory process.

If it is an honor code violation, he may well be back next year. He'll be done for the semester, though. Seems likely UNC will play the rest of this season without him.

[22JumpShots]

Getting arrested for speeding while driving a rental car paid for by a convicted felon with an automatic weapon and marijuana in the car = running extra laps

Beating up a walkon teammate to the extent of concussion = one week suspension during a bye week

Was the first one the older Felton? And then who was the second one? I do not recall that incident.

[camion]

Getting arrested for speeding while driving a rental car paid for by a convicted felon with an automatic weapon and marijuana in the car = running extra laps

Beating up a walkon teammate to the extent of concussion = one week suspension during a bye week

20 years of fake classes = athletic show cause for a retired professor

So yeah, I can’t fathom what you’d have to do to get suspended from that black hole of morality.

Maybe he had lunch with Jay Smith. :eek:

[English]

Was the first one the older Felton? And then who was the second one? I do not recall that incident.

PJ Hairston was the first.

The second was a handful of unx football players.

ETA: Perhaps this is speculation (most of the posts in this thread are), but the couple of buddies I have connected to that vile program are saying this is NOT an academic issue. Soooo, by process of elimination, that's looking worse and worse for the young man.

[22JumpShots]

PJ Hairston was the first.

The second was a handful of unx football players.

ETA: Perhaps this is speculation (most of the posts in this thread are), but the couple of buddies I have connected to that vile program are saying this is NOT an academic issue. Soooo, by process of elimination, that's looking worse and worse for the young man.

Ahahh. Thanks for the insight.

[PackMan97]

Was the first one the older Felton? And then who was the second one? I do not recall that incident.

The first one was PJ Harriston.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2013/12/20/pj-hairston-north-carolina-roy-williams/4125599/

Second one was a group of football players from the secondary who beat up and hospitalized a walkon during a hazing incident. The case was settled without charges for almost $800k.
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article85089202.html

In other news, UNC is keeping the sleeze alive, earlier this month they hired former player Tommy Thigpen as their LBers coach. During his playing days he was charged for assault on a female, but she declined to testify after initially reporting the incident.
http://www.greensboro.com/assualt-charges-filed-against-unc-linebacker/article_9eee16f4-4716-58f8-a5f4-2d22befd7cc2.html

[TKG]

Clearing the scholarship spot for Zion. Oh, wait........

[flyingdutchdevil]

Clearing the scholarship spot for Zion. Oh, wait....

:(

Without Felton and Zion, maybe UNC will be pre-season #1...

[PackMan97]

Speaking of UNC scandals, this is something I remember way way back in the mid 90's...I seem to recall some athletes getting into trouble with the law and the judge sentenced them to writing a book report. Does anyone else recall that event or the circumstances?

[CameronBlue]

If it is an honor code violation, he may well be back next year. He'll be done for the semester, though. Seems likely UNC will play the rest of this season without him.

UNC has an Honor Code?

[gofurman]

Speaking of UNC scandals, this is something I remember way way back in the mid 90's...I seem to recall some athletes getting into trouble with the law and the judge sentenced them to writing a book report. Does anyone else recall that event or the circumstances?

Help me here, I would like a full list of UNC issues -

-Mike Nifong falsifies evidence in Duke lacrosse case...
-Getting arrested for speeding while driving a rental car paid for by a convicted felon with an automatic weapon and marijuana in the car = running extra laps -> PJ Hairston????
-Beating up a walk-on teammate to the extent of concussion = one week suspension during a bye week -> UNC football players?? when??
-Lawrence Taylor (granted, in NFL) buying prostitutes to make opposing players stay up all night?

* can you all confirm these and what other items ??? I need to get a full listing !! Thanks for helping me both confirm the above - are those right? and what other items have they had?

thanks in advance!

[PackMan97]

-Getting arrested for speeding while driving a rental car paid for by a convicted felon with an automatic weapon and marijuana in the car = running extra laps -> PJ Hairston????

In all fairness to UNC, PJ didn't play another game for UNC after this incident.

[UrinalCake]

In all fairness to UNC, PJ didn't play another game for UNC after this incident.

That incident occurred over the summer. Roy said there would be no punishment other than forcing PJ to run extra laps. It later came out that PJ had had a previous speeding violation, also while driving a car owned by Fats Thomas. After the THIRD violation (again speeding, this time in his girlfriend's car) Roy said he would suspend PJ from the team, except that this was still the summer and there was nothing to suspend him from. Roy indicated that he had never before made anybody run laps as hard as he made PJ. This was quite a summer, when Pack Pride posters dug up a whole bunch of information about an alleged dental foundation that was being used to funnel money, a mouthguard company that had PJ in its advertising, and a bunch of other tin foil type stuff which may or may not have any grounds of truth.

That fall, just before the season started, the NCAA paid the school a visit. UNC finally announced they were holding PJ out of games and spent weeks complaining that the NCAA was dragging its feet in getting him reinstated. As it turns out, they never actually applied for his reinstatement (I guess they felt that whatever information the NCAA learned would be even more damaging) but were instead just stringing PJ along so that he would keep going to classes and the school could maintain their APR rating.

There was also the infamous Tydreke Powell, a former football player who called into a live radio show in Charlotte and said all the football players were steered into fake classes, told that "if you wanted an education you should have gone to Harvard," and also made to take a learning disability screening test and instructed to intentionally fail it so that they could be diagnosed with a disability and thus afforded extra time to take tests and given prescriptions for adderall. The plucky pack pride posters even found a connection between Fats Thomas and the head of an LD testing facility in Durham, who was his girlfriend at the time.

On a far more serious note, the school also has a history of covering up sexual assault allegations. Don't have the links here but the school was cited several years ago for under-reporting assault allegations, and more recently there have been a handful of allegations against athletes (mostly football players) that have flown under the radar.

[UrinalCake]

Also, if anybody actually thinks that UNC would suspend a player for cheating on a test, recall that this is the same "university" that allowed this to go on for decades:

8046

8047

8048

[BD80]

If it is an honor code violation, he may well be back next year. He'll be done for the semester, though. Seems likely UNC will play the rest of this season without him.


UNC has an Honor Code?

I believe quotations are required when associating unc with "honor."


Speaking of UNC scandals, this is something I remember way way back in the mid 90's...I seem to recall some athletes getting into trouble with the law and the judge sentenced them to writing a book report. Does anyone else recall that event or the circumstances?

The NC Supreme Court found that to be cruel and unusual punishment.

[UrinalCake]

Felton has hired an attorney, one who specializes in Title IX defense cases and who previously defended a UNC player who had been accused of rape (as well as working on the Duke lacrosse team case).

I know we have a board policy against rumors/speculation, but I’ll just say that players don’t typically hire Title IX attorneys because they cheated on a test.

[rocketeli]

In answer to somebody upthread's question. Yes if someone transfers "involuntarily" for conduct, grade etc. it will show up as a transfer in the transfer lists that people compile.

IC was fun-speculation included assault, sexual assault and (no lie) giving the whole campus a STD.

I had to really laugh at poster after poster saying it can't be grades because of the timing. Of course it can. JF probably didn't go to class most of last semester and then was given 2-3 week grace period to turn in a couple of book reports, which he then failed to do.

[English]

In answer to somebody upthread's question. Yes if someone transfers "involuntarily" for conduct, grade etc. it will show up as a transfer in the transfer lists that people compile.

IC was fun-speculation included assault, sexual assault and (no lie) giving the whole campus a STD.

I had to really laugh at poster after poster saying it can't be grades because of the timing. Of course it can. JF probably didn't go to class most of last semester and then was given 2-3 week grace period to turn in a couple of book reports, which he then failed to do.

Does Title IX refer to the title of the ninth book on his summer reading list? Was it Chicken Little?

[DukieInKansas]

Does Title IX refer to the title of the ninth book on his summer reading list? Was it Chicken Little?

In Swahili.

To the topic - I hope whatever the issue is that it is investigated thoroughly and fairly before judgement is made and that the young man can learn and grow from whatever the situation is.

[plimnko]

Does Title IX refer to the title of the ninth book on his summer reading list? Was it Chicken Little?


i believe that falls under the advance courses......not freshman level courses.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFKuKSsWcBI

[Rich]

Well, I guess we now have our answer as to how ol' Roy was going to make room for Zion

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I am pretty excited that a thread about a 19 year old kid getting suspended from a university has derailed into yet another UNC scandal punching bag thread.

Wake me up when we find out what the kid did.

[Natty_B]

Felton's lawyer is now tweeting about him (caution don't click if you're eaten recently as projectile vomiting is likely): https://twitter.com/kerstinwsutton/status/958428794632667136. Seems....weird. Also company line is he's been suspended while information is being gathered not as a punishment - which seems......weird. Don't let the bad stats fool you there was a lot of hype for this guy coming in - he was the top UNC recruit. Anyway based on UNC's track record I expect him back by the Duke game and he'll likely join Rashad McCants on the spring semester Dean's list pantheon.

[MartyClark]

Felton's lawyer is now tweeting about him (caution don't click if you're eaten recently as projectile vomiting is likely): https://twitter.com/kerstinwsutton/status/958428794632667136. Seems...weird. Also company line is he's been suspended while information is being gathered not as a punishment - which seems...weird. Don't let the bad stats fool you there was a lot of hype for this guy coming in - he was the top UNC recruit. Anyway based on UNC's track record I expect him back by the Duke game and he'll likely join Rashad McCants on the spring semester Dean's list pantheon.

Felton's lawyer must be good. She describes herself as "Part time assassin and part time mermaid". That is a very tough combination to beat.

[DukeFanSince1990]

Felton's lawyer must be good. She describes herself as "Part time assassin and part time mermaid". That is a very tough combination to beat.

What if she assassinated someone while in mermaid mode? Would that change her rates?

[UrinalCake]

What if she assassinated someone while in mermaid mode? Would that change her rates?

She can shoot people underwater with either hand... she’s amphibious.

[BD80]

She can shoot people underwater with either hand... she’s amphibious.

anthropomorphous = she's a lawyer, not a human

[devildeac]

That incident occurred over the summer. Roy said there would be no punishment other than forcing PJ to run extra laps. It later came out that PJ had had a previous speeding violation, also while driving a car owned by Fats Thomas. After the THIRD violation (again speeding, this time in his girlfriend's car) Roy said he would suspend PJ from the team, except that this was still the summer and there was nothing to suspend him from. Roy indicated that he had never before made anybody run laps as hard as he made PJ. This was quite a summer, when Pack Pride posters dug up a whole bunch of information about an alleged dental foundation that was being used to funnel money, a mouthguard company that had PJ in its advertising, and a bunch of other tin foil type stuff which may or may not have any grounds of truth.

That fall, just before the season started, the NCAA paid the school a visit. UNC finally announced they were holding PJ out of games and spent weeks complaining that the NCAA was dragging its feet in getting him reinstated. As it turns out, they never actually applied for his reinstatement (I guess they felt that whatever information the NCAA learned would be even more damaging) but were instead just stringing PJ along so that he would keep going to classes and the school could maintain their APR rating.

There was also the infamous Tydreke Powell, a former football player who called into a live radio show in Charlotte and said all the football players were steered into fake classes, told that "if you wanted an education you should have gone to Harvard," and also made to take a learning disability screening test and instructed to intentionally fail it so that they could be diagnosed with a disability and thus afforded extra time to take tests and given prescriptions for adderall. The plucky pack pride posters even found a connection between Fats Thomas and the head of an LD testing facility in Durham, who was his girlfriend at the time.

On a far more serious note, the school also has a history of covering up sexual assault allegations. Don't have the links here but the school was cited several years ago for under-reporting assault allegations, and more recently there have been a handful of allegations against athletes (mostly football players) that have flown under the radar.

Excellent summary. Darn shame none of this is the ncaa's bizness. :mad:

Is Tydreke Powell the FB player who called ol' roy "a snake" or am I mis-remembering that person?

[Wheat/"/"/"]

An 18 year old kid has done something stupid, surprise.

I knew something was up with him a couple of games back when he refused to shake hands with Berry as he was coming out of the game. It was an obvious slight, caught directly on camera, and I commented on it in another thread here that Roy would deal with it. But I was hoping it was just a maturity/frustration issue. Evidently, it's much more.

There have been issues with him since he signed, like not showing up in the summer because he ended up having to take a few summer school classes to be eligible, even tho he knew for two years what he needed to do.

And of course Roy's been after him since he got to UNC to improve his effort.

Whatever, it's a shame to see a kid not take advantage of his talent.

No team is immune to these kind of things with players every now and then. UNC will survive it.

BTW, I'll add this board is becoming as juvenile as Devils Den and Inside Carolina. Some comments I've seen are really lame, but you guys carry on, it's your house.

[Duke79UNLV77]

They are royally screwed if something happens to Berry.

They already were, to some extent, but even moreso now.

I bet their obligatory 16 walk-ons are all charged with keeping Berry away from any video games at all costs. And, of course, staying behind to take one for the team if there are any court stormings.

[Owen Meany]

I am far from a UNC fan and have found their recent behavior in the cheating scandal to be indefensible/deplorable/you name it. But, I would caution everyone to remember, however, that this thread is about a 19 year old young man who, as far as we know, has done nothing wrong. We do not know what happened at this time. Hopefully it turns out to not be something serious for everyone involved. If you remember the Duke Lacrosse case it should be easy to withhold judgment.

[OldPhiKap]

I am far from a UNC fan and have found their recent behavior in the cheating scandal to be indefensible/deplorable/you name it. But, I would caution everyone to remember, however, that this thread is about a 19 year old young man who, as far as we know, has done nothing wrong. We do not know what happened at this time. Hopefully it turns out to not be something serious for everyone involved. If you remember the Duke Lacrosse case it should be easy to withhold judgment.

Agreed, not jumping on the glee wagon here. We have no idea what happened, but obviously it potentially concerns serious stuff. Very well-stated as usual.






BTW, I'll add this board is becoming as juvenile as Devils Den and Inside Carolina. Some comments I've seen are really lame, but you guys carry on, it's your house.

Not sure how this helps, nor sure what you would expect.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

An 18 year old kid has done something stupid, surprise.



He is 19, so your post is invalid.

/sarcasm

Seriously, I agree with your point. Historically, it would be below this board to pick at a young man who is in some sort of unknown brand of trouble with the law or the university.

I am sure Inside Carolina had a field day with Sulaiman a few years ago. We aspire to a higher standard.

[Bob Green]

From the Decorum & Posting Guidelines:

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?21833-Decorum-amp-Posting-Guidelines-(Please-read-before-posting!)


DBR is meant to foster a sense of community built around the Duke experience and encourage intelligent discussion, debate, and commentary in a fun and civil atmosphere. Posting on DBR is a privilege extended to those trying to make it a better place for all of us.

To maintain your posting privilege, we ask you to post by our "Duke Blue" Rule: Don’t post anything offensive or embarrassing to you, the team (that includes past, present, and future players and coaches), the DBR community, or your grandmother. Don't post it if you wouldn’t say it face to face (and sober). Break this Rule and you may earn an infraction. (Why do we call it the “Duke Blue” rule? Because it’s based upon the expectations that Coach K has for his team.)

There are multiple post in this thread which do not meet the "intelligent" and "fun and civil atmosphere" benchmark. The mod team encourages everyone to self reflect before posting further comments.

Thank you!

[MChambers]

An 18 year old kid has done something stupid, surprise.

I knew something was up with him a couple of games back when he refused to shake hands with Berry as he was coming out of the game. It was an obvious slight, caught directly on camera, and I commented on it in another thread here that Roy would deal with it. But I was hoping it was just a maturity/frustration issue. Evidently, it's much more.

There have been issues with him since he signed, like not showing up in the summer because he ended up having to take a few summer school classes to be eligible, even tho he knew for two years what he needed to do.

And of course Roy's been after him since he got to UNC to improve his effort.

Whatever, it's a shame to see a kid not take advantage of his talent.

No team is immune to these kind of things with players every now and then. UNC will survive it.

BTW, I'll add this board is becoming as juvenile as Devils Den and Inside Carolina. Some comments I've seen are really lame, but you guys carry on, it's your house.

I think your comments are out of line. Of course it's true that kids make mistakes and making fun of it may not be appropriate, especially if it is something very serious, as a Title IX issue is likely to be. I really hope Felton's problems aren't that serious.

Having said, the reason his suspension is funny to us is because of UNC's ridiculous behavior as to academics and athletics over the last 20+ years. Many of us really can't take the school seriously. I understand that you can't see that, because of your perspective. But I really don't need anyone from UNC lecturing us on our behavior.

[jv001]

I think your comments are out of line. Of course it's true that kids make mistakes and making fun of it may not be appropriate, especially if it is something very serious, as a Title IX issue is likely to be. I really hope Felton's problems aren't that serious.

Having said, the reason his suspension is funny to us is because of UNC's ridiculous behavior as to academics and athletics over the last 20+ years. Many of us really can't take the school seriously. I understand that you can't see that, because of your perspective. But I really don't need anyone from UNC lecturing us on our behavior.

I must spread sporks so here's a big GODUKE!

[75Crazie]

I cannot help thinking of a quote from an N&O editorial six years ago, when it was just UNC football in the crosshairs and the extent of MBB involvement in the scandal was not yet public knowledge: "The Tar Heels forfeit the right to condescend".

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Jalek apparently attempting to challenge Steve Blake’s compositional prowess...
http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8051&stc=1

[PackMan97]

As a State fan, we just went through a situation with Markell Johnson who was charged with felony assault along with a group of other young men while he was home on break in Clevland, OH. The charges were eventually dropped, but while he had them school policy is suspension from all activites.

I don't know what's going on with Felton, but I hope the truth comes out and the adults in charge act appropriately.

[devildeac]

As a State fan, we just went through a situation with Markell Johnson who was charged with felony assault along with a group of other young men while he was home on break in Clevland, OH. The charges were eventually dropped, but while he had them school policy is suspension from all activites.

I don't know what's going on with Felton, but I hope the truth comes out and the adults in charge act appropriately.

Whoa, now, what school we talking about here? :rolleyes:

[PackMan97]

Whoa, now, what school we talking about here? :rolleyes:

Hope springs eternal.

What is the saying? "Hope for the best, expect the worst"?

[PackMan97]

Someone needs to tell Coach Williams just to shut the [censored] up!

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/unc-now/article197515954.html


“I had nothing to do with how it was handled,” Williams said.

“That’s probably all I should say because I’ve been advised not to say anything and don’t know enough to say anything.”

Williams was asked if the problems at Michigan State and how that school has handled sexual assault allegations and cases has led to UNC’s seemingly swift action in Felton’s case.

Williams said he couldn’t answer the question because he wasn’t involved in the decision.

“I didn’t have any opinion,” Williams said. “I didn’t have any say.”


We get it Coach. You don't know anything about anything. You don't know what classes your players take, you don't know what they are doing outside of practice, you don't know why the university is taking disciplinary action against a player.

Carolina fans should hang a banner for Coach Williams, "Most Clueless Coach EVAR".


Citing federal privacy laws, the university declined to provide details for the cause for Felton’s suspension. Kerry Sutton, a Durham-based attorney who is representing Felton, said that the university is in the process of gathering information related to a misconduct case involving Felton.


Miss Sutton appears to specialize in defense cases where sexual misconduct is at issue.
http://suttonlindsay.com/kerstin-walker-sutton.shtml

[JD for Three!]

I think your comments are out of line. Of course it's true that kids make mistakes and making fun of it may not be appropriate, especially if it is something very serious, as a Title IX issue is likely to be. I really hope Felton's problems aren't that serious.

Having said, the reason his suspension is funny to us is because of UNC's ridiculous behavior as to academics and athletics over the last 20+ years. Many of us really can't take the school seriously. I understand that you can't see that, because of your perspective. But I really don't need anyone from UNC lecturing us on our behavior.

Agreed! I don’t have any interest in banging on a young man who may or may not have done something wrong. I am okay on banging on UNC for yet another athletic crisis and having a supposed adult in charge who is doing the Sgt. Schultz act - “I know nothing. I see nothing.” (apologies to those too young to know Hogan’s Heroes)

[wavedukefan70s]

Maybe he will transfer to clemson.😍in all seriousness. I hope it's nothing to derail his career. kids do dumb stuff.

[Saratoga2]

I am pretty excited that a thread about a 19 year old kid getting suspended from a university has derailed into yet another UNC scandal punching bag thread.

Wake me up when we find out what the kid did.

I agree. I feel sorry for the kid even if it is caused by his own action. He will miss out on a big chance to develop his life whatever the cause. In the mean time, I can understand some UNC bashing but to go on and on with it is in my view demeaning to Duke.

[whereinthehellami]

I am pretty excited that a thread about a 19 year old kid getting suspended from a university has derailed into yet another UNC scandal punching bag thread.

Wake me up when we find out what the kid did.

I think I'll let you sleep.

[Tripping William]

I pity Ol' Roy's masseuse this morning. :eek:

[ndkjr70]

I agree. I feel sorry for the kid even if it is caused by his own action. He will miss out on a big chance to develop his life whatever the cause. In the mean time, I can understand some UNC bashing but to go on and on with it is in my view demeaning to Duke.

Is this serious? If "it is caused by his own action" - aka if he sexually assaulted someone - you feel sorry for the kid? That's absurd.

If he's innocent this stinks for him. If he's guilty, I hope his life is just about as ruined as the poor girl he assaulted.

[CameronBlue]

I am okay on banging on UNC for yet another athletic crisis and having a supposed adult in charge who is doing the Sgt. Schultz act - “I know nothing. I see nothing.” (apologies to those too young to know Hogan’s Heroes)

The actor's name was John Banner. Poetic coincidence.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Is this serious? If "it is caused by his own action" - aka if he sexually assaulted someone - you feel sorry for the kid? That's absurd.

If he's innocent this stinks for him. If he's guilty, I hope his life is just about as ruined as the poor girl he assaulted.

There seems to be rather extreme speculation in this thread. For what it's worth, here is what is updated on WRAL.


Kerry Sutton, Felton's attorney, says Felton has not been kicked out of school.
"This is an interim suspension and not a punishment," Sutton told WRAL Tuesday, saying it will remain that way "while the school gathers more information."
http://www.wralsportsfan.com/unc-suspends-freshman-guard-jalek-felton/17300413/

[ndkjr70]

There seems to be rather extreme speculation in this thread. For what it's worth, here is what is updated on WRAL.


http://www.wralsportsfan.com/unc-suspends-freshman-guard-jalek-felton/17300413/

It seems you may have missed the two "if" words in my post.

Speculation (on multiple websites) is that it involves some sort of sexual assault. That speculation was heightened when he hired an attorney that specializes in sexual assault cases. I am not taking any drastic leaps.

I think it's beyond stupid for someone to say that they feel sorry for the kid "even if was caused by his own action". Even past the word stupid, I think it's a dangerous comment to make and perhaps a sad indication of how we value high-profile sports athletes.

[uh_no]

I think it's a dangerous comment to make and perhaps a sad indication of how we value high-profile sports athletes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case

maybe you forgot.

[PackMan97]

Kerry Sutton, Felton's attorney, says Felton has not been kicked out of school.
"This is an interim suspension and not a punishment," Sutton told WRAL Tuesday, saying it will remain that way "while the school gathers more information."

Here is my take on it, basing things on how Markell Johnson's situation with State went down.

Once criminal charges get to a certain point it is out of the hands of the coach and/or athletic department and it becomes a matter of UNC system wide policy. For Johnson, that happened when State learned he had been charged with a felony. There was no more decision making involved. He was suspended immediately by the university. In addition, this was not a punishment for Johnson, it was a matter of university policy and the only thing Johnson and State could do was wait for his day in court and hope the charges were dropped (which they were).

What is interesting to me is that Felton's attorney states that Felton will remain suspended while the school gathers more information. If this is meant to imply that UNC still has discretion in how it handles the matter, he may not yet be charged with anything, but that whatever is going on is serious enough that if the issues procedes, UNC does not want to be caught knowing about sometihng for weeks while letting him play.

Just my take on it given that UNC and State likely have very similar policies in this regard.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case

maybe you forgot.

Felton's lawyer also represented one of those Duke student-athletes.

[left_hook_lacey]

Here is my take on it, basing things on how Markell Johnson's situation with State went down.

Once criminal charges get to a certain point it is out of the hands of the coach and/or athletic department and it becomes a matter of UNC system wide policy. For Johnson, that happened when State learned he had been charged with a felony. There was no more decision making involved. He was suspended immediately by the university. In addition, this was not a punishment for Johnson, it was a matter of university policy and the only thing Johnson and State could do was wait for his day in court and hope the charges were dropped (which they were).

What is interesting to me is that Felton's attorney states that Felton will remain suspended while the school gathers more information. If this is meant to imply that UNC still has discretion in how it handles the matter, he may not yet be charged with anything, but that whatever is going on is serious enough that if the issues procedes, UNC does not want to be caught knowing about sometihng for weeks while letting him play.

Just my take on it given that UNC and State likely have very similar policies in this regard.



Felton's lawyer also represented one of those Duke student-athletes.
I think this is accurate. And given the #metoo, Dr. Nasser, MSU, climate we're in, UNC wants no part of failing to be assertive in the public perception. Felton's lawyer is saying he hasn't even been charged, so UNC is playing it safe. It's a lot easier to suspend him, and reinstate if there's nothing there, than it is to continue to let him go to school and play basketball, only to find out he was guilty of something heinous. Heads would roll.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

It seems you may have missed the two "if" words in my post.

Speculation (on multiple websites) is that it involves some sort of sexual assault. That speculation was heightened when he hired an attorney that specializes in sexual assault cases. I am not taking any drastic leaps.

I think it's beyond stupid for someone to say that they feel sorry for the kid "even if was caused by his own action". Even past the word stupid, I think it's a dangerous comment to make and perhaps a sad indication of how we value high-profile sports athletes.

I don't feel "sorry for the kid" until I know what happened. But regardless of what he did or didn't do, I feel it is a topic worthy of a higher level of discourse than "hurr hurr, UNC suxxxx." By any estimation, this kid's life has been radically changed, and to more it is in poor taste to use it as an *additional* opportunity to take jabs at the academic scandal.

As someone said above, it reminds me of Sulaimon (who I am on record as having no sympathy for) and UNC fans piling on the young man and Duke. Something tragic is going in, and a young man has squandered a great opportunity.

I will refrain from further comment until we get more information.

[MarkD83]

I think this is accurate. And given the #metoo, Dr. Nasser, MSU, climate we're in, UNC wants no part of failing to be assertive in the public perception. Felton's lawyer is saying he hasn't even been charged, so UNC is playing it safe. It's a lot easier to suspend him, and reinstate if there's nothing there, than it is to continue to let him go to school and play basketball, only to find out he was guilty of something heinous. Heads would roll.

In trying to take this discussion to a higher level, this does seem to be a shift in UNC's handling of their athletic department. In the past 20 years, the university seemed to do the bidding of the athletic department. Yesterday Roy mentioned that he had nothing to do with this which seemed to mildly irritate him.

In the past this incident might have been handled by letting Felton continue to play while an investigation was being held since that is what would have been best for the basketball team. In this case the university decided to do what was best for the university and perhaps didn't even consult Roy.

[moonpie23]

how do you turn this gall darn rumor mongering plugin filter on?

[PackMan97]

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article197371454.html

Not much new information.

I do wonder if he's suspended from even attending class, how much class time before he is unable to return this season?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article197371454.html

Not much new information.

I do wonder if he's suspended from even attending class, how much class time before he is unable to return this season?

That may be the most telling detail yet.

[English]

how do you turn this gall darn rumor mongering plugin filter on?

You're right. He could totally be accused of mermaid-like activities, so his hiring a half-marmaid/half-Title IX attorney is very misleading.

[Owen Meany]

Understandably, UNC, the institution, has lost all benefit of the doubt on matters of ethics, fair-play, etc. The barbs and suspicion aimed in their direction has all been well-earned. They sold their soul, in the most crass and cynical manner, to hold onto athletic victories. But for the sake of Jalek Felton, or anyone else who might find themselves in this position, I'd like to note that Title IX cases have generated significant concern from many people (from Betsy DeVos to Jerry Brown).


Briefly, in 2011 the federal government issued guidance to universities requiring that they lower the burden of proof in sexual-assault cases to a “preponderance of the evidence” standard (meaning you found someone was 50.00001% likely to have committed an assault). As a result, there have been cases of students being expelled without basic due-process (ex. written notice of allegations, right to present exculpatory evidence, etc.). KC Johnson, familiar to many from the Duke Lacrosse case, has written about this and keeps a running tally of cases (in the dozens) where courts have over-ruled the disciplinary actions of University Honor Courts (including a case at Duke University). To further illustrate how difficult these cases can be, Duke has been sued by both an accused student and a student claiming sexual assault due to the actions of the same investigator.


Sexual Assault cases are very difficult. Even the definition of sexual assault can be very different for different people. The Title IX guidance was recently rescinded, but many universities still have procedures in place developed under the fear of being found non-compliant by the federal government. As a result, you can not assume that there is evidence against a student just because they were suspended. I would think any university would be extremely cautious in such a situation (which makes Michigan State's actions/in-actions that much more baffling). That could very well include suspending someone immediately until further information is gathered.

[elvis14]

In trying to take this discussion to a higher level, this does seem to be a shift in UNC's handling of their athletic department. In the past 20 years, the university seemed to do the bidding of the athletic department. Yesterday Roy mentioned that he had nothing to do with this which seemed to mildly irritate him.

In the past this incident might have been handled by letting Felton continue to play while an investigation was being held since that is what would have been best for the basketball team. In this case the university decided to do what was best for the university and perhaps didn't even consult Roy.

He may have said that but does anyone really believe him? Or is he just trying to distance himself from the situation to insulate himself and appear innocent (we've seen this behavior from him in the past).

As for Felton, Like others, I'll reserve much comment on him until we know more.

[uh_no]

He may have said that but does anyone really believe him?

Are you suggesting that....

...

....roy knew?

In any case, I'm sure roy was kept extremely well informed of what was going on. While he may not have been consulted in the decision, I can't imagine he wasn't involved.

[English]

At the risk of getting a stern fingerwag from the MtnDevil and others, and slightly off-topic but still relevant, I recommend Gary Parrish & Matt Norlander's latest (I think, perhaps second most recent now) podcast--Eye on College Basketball--in which they discuss the MSU situation. I think it has some pretty straightforward application to this situation (in which action is taken before full information is gleaned).

Among other things, they basically say that back in 2010 and earlier, the norm was the let the kid stay in school and play in practices and games while an investigation played out. Only if/when allegations progressed to guilt or indictment, was action ever taken by a school--Coach Cal at Memphis was an example they cite. Right or wrong (and almost certainly wrong), that was the SOP. Conversely, in the era we find ourselves with #metoo and social media and the 24-hour news cycle, schools and organizations are being far more deliberate about taking action upfront as an investigation unfolds, and then with complete information, either reinstating the player/person in the event that facts exculpated them (or at least didn't lead anywhere), or sticking with the initial action.

This all to say, unx's actions to remove Felton up front, while due diligence is performed, is the new norm. Same with Markell Johnson at NCSU. Here's hoping it's all a major misunderstanding and no bad acts were committed, so he and everyone on the periphery can move on.

[DevilYouKnow]

I'll bet UNC feels silly instituting that policy in 2015, just trying to appear moral and all. Now they have to live up to it. Damn.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

At the risk of getting a stern fingerwag from the MtnDevil and others, and slightly off-topic but still relevant, I recommend Gary Parrish & Matt Norlander's latest (I think, perhaps second most recent now) podcast--Eye on College Basketball--in which they discuss the MSU situation. I think it has some pretty straightforward application to this situation (in which action is taken before full information is gleaned).

Among other things, they basically say that back in 2010 and earlier, the norm was the let the kid stay in school and play in practices and games while an investigation played out. Only if/when allegations progressed to guilt or indictment, was action ever taken by a school--Coach Cal at Memphis was an example they cite. Right or wrong (and almost certainly wrong), that was the SOP. Conversely, in the era we find ourselves with #metoo and social media and the 24-hour news cycle, schools and organizations are being far more deliberate about taking action upfront as an investigation unfolds, and then with complete information, either reinstating the player/person in the event that facts exculpated them (or at least didn't lead anywhere), or sticking with the initial action.

This all to say, unx's actions to remove Felton up front, while due diligence is performed, is the new norm. Same with Markell Johnson at NCSU. Here's hoping it's all a major misunderstanding and no bad acts were committed, so he and everyone on the periphery can move on.

No finger wagging from me on this post. I would much prefer intelligent discussion about the situation and social norms to light hearted chuckling about UNC's scandal and/or poking fun at the young man who clearly is going to have quite a lot to work out.

We can all agree (I think) that the entire landscape has been turned on its head post Sandusky/Nasser/Weinstein/CK etc. I don't think any of us are sharp enough to know truly what the best course of action is in these situations anymore, from an institutional perspective other than "don't let it happen on your watch."

[chrishoke]

This all to say, unx's actions to remove Felton up front, while due diligence is performed, is the new norm. Same with Markell Johnson at NCSU. Here's hoping it's all a major misunderstanding and no bad acts were committed, so he and everyone on the periphery can move on.

Was Markell Johnson excluded from going to classes?

[JasonEvans]

Among other things, they basically say that back in 2010 and earlier, the norm was the let the kid stay in school and play in practices and games while an investigation played out. Only if/when allegations progressed to guilt or indictment, was action ever taken by a school--Coach Cal at Memphis was an example they cite. Right or wrong (and almost certainly wrong), that was the SOP. Conversely, in the era we find ourselves with #metoo and social media and the 24-hour news cycle, schools and organizations are being far more deliberate about taking action upfront as an investigation unfolds, and then with complete information, either reinstating the player/person in the event that facts exculpated them (or at least didn't lead anywhere), or sticking with the initial action.

I would just like to add that there is the possibility of abuse if schools automatically suspend players the moment an allegation is made. I think there is some obligation to at least begin to look into the allegations to see if there might be a "there" there.

[English]

I would just like to add that there is the possibility of abuse if schools automatically suspend players the moment an allegation is made. I think there is some obligation to at least begin to look into the allegations to see if there might be a "there" there.

This is completely valid, and another point the two guys made on their pod. As an example, Duke University has been separately sued by a student claiming that she was sexually assaulted and the institution mishandled her case, and by a student claiming that he was accused of sexual assault and the institution mishandled his case. It’s a minefield navigating these complicated cases, and the nature of them is often he said/she said (or similar).

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

This is completely valid, and another point the two guys made on their pod. As an example, Duke University has been separately sued by a student claiming that she was sexually assaulted and the institution mishandled her case, and by a student claiming that he was accused of sexual assault and the institution mishandled his case. It’s a minefield navigating these complicated cases, and the nature of them is often he said/she said (or similar).

Definitely true that there's a possibility of abusing the system, but I think it's a very natural reaction. The pendulum has swung hard and with good reason. After generations of victim blaming and victim distrust, erring on the side of the victim while we as a society try and figure out how best to move forward in our new enlightened state seems like it makes sense. Is it "fair?" Well, that depends wholly on whether or not the accused is guilty.

I don't think we can take any of these particular instances out of the greater social context of what's happening around our country as we try and suss out how to correct generations of misconduct. We're a different society now than we were even four years ago.

[uh_no]

Definitely true that there's a possibility of abusing the system, but I think it's a very natural reaction. The pendulum has swung hard and with good reason. After generations of victim blaming and victim distrust, erring on the side of the victim while we as a society try and figure out how best to move forward in our new enlightened state seems like it makes sense. Is it "fair?" Well, that depends wholly on whether or not the accused is guilty.

I don't think we can take any of these particular instances out of the greater social context of what's happening around our country as we try and suss out how to correct generations of misconduct. We're a different society now than we were even four years ago.

this country was built on protecting the rights of the accused. it's a shame we discard that in this day and age. accusations ruin lives. there are still people convinced that "something must have happened" at the lax party.

There are ways to handle these situations that protect both the victim and the accused. Unfortunately, such actions usually don't jibe with the fire and brimstone that the population calls for in general. There is a general contest to see who can be "more outraged" in such scenarios. There is a brilliant quote from a piece of harry potter fan-fiction (methods of rationality) that I like:


Those now prisoner in Azkaban voted for the same Ministers of Magic who pledged to move their cells closer to the Dementors.

Everybody is okay with being outraged at conservative actions taken against the accused and convicted....until they end up on the wrong side of it.

There was a fantastic series of articles in the chronicle last spring discussing how students are getting screwed by the honor council that rules on cheating matters. If the university can't seem to give even basic rights to people accused of cheating, then I have no faith that they will do so in larger cases. Again, the lacrosse case, unfortunately, is evidence of that....and were it not still fresh in the administrations mind, I bet we'd railroad those three guys again.

The victims have rights. the accused have rights. we can protect both of them.

[OldPhiKap]

The victims have rights. the accused have rights. we can protect both of them.

Agreed. And the best way we can honor that on this board is to avoid the speculation that has been going on in this thread, which I assume was what prompted uh_no's post.

We do not know what the allegations are. We do not know what the underlying facts are. Let the system play itself out. The fact that his lawyer has handled high-profile cases involving a certain type of allegation does not necessarily mean that those same allegations are being made here. It may simply mean that the lawyer handles high-profile cases of athletes, and obviously is good at it.

Ed Tolley in Athens is the go-to for UGA athletes in trouble. Doesn't matter the charge, he's the guy you want. There are plenty of reasons this lawyer may have been selected that are unrelated to what the specific allegations are. Good lawyers can handle a variety of matters.

[flyingdutchdevil]

He may have said that but does anyone really believe him? Or is he just trying to distance himself from the situation to insulate himself and appear innocent (we've seen this behavior from him in the past).

As for Felton, Like others, I'll reserve much comment on him until we know more.

I actually believe Roy in this case.

Based on what we know (Felton hired a lawyer whose firm specializes in sexual misconduct allegations), Felton is likely accused of something related to sexual misconduct. This doesn't make him guilty at all. But I think sexual misconduct is 100% non-basketball related (and I'd argue academics are basketball related cus you need to be in good academic standing to play basketball) and, if this is the case, then Roy probably has nothing to do with it and may not even know about it.

In today's world, universities and institutions take sexual misconduct so seriously that "acting first, investigating second" is the new norm. Not commenting whether this is right or wrong, just saying how it is. If you are accused of sexual misconduct by a fellow student, professor, fan, random stranger, talking dog, tree that can write, etc etc, your world will be turned upside-down until the investigation is complete.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

this country was built on protecting the rights of the accused. it's a shame we discard that in this day and age. accusations ruin lives. there are still people convinced that "something must have happened" at the lax party.

There are ways to handle these situations that protect both the victim and the accused. Unfortunately, such actions usually don't jibe with the fire and brimstone that the population calls for in general.

To be clear, I wasn't suggesting that this "swinging of the pendulum" was just or fair, just explaining why I believe it to be happening. I think it's pretty natural when our society has been skewered in one direction for so long, that when a light is finally shined on the severity of the problem, our thinking may hedge on other side for awhile before a truly "fair" balance is reached.

[elvis14]

I actually believe Roy in this case.

I don't. Not at all. He's doing what his lawyers told him to do: play dumb and distance yourself publically, dagummit.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I don't. Not at all. He's doing what his lawyers told him to do: play dumb and distance yourself publically, dagummit.

In this environment, every coach would be doing the same thing. I'm sorry, but you cannot comment on anything related to sexual misconduct. Did you see what happened to Izzo for his comments?

[sagegrouse]

In this environment, every coach would be doing the same thing. I'm sorry, but you cannot comment on anything related to sexual misconduct. Did you see what happened to Izzo for his comments?

Hah! Lefty Driesell mouthed off about the "moral character" of one of his player's accusers (I think it was the Herman Veal case). His attorney, the famed Edward Bennett Williams, drove out to College Park and sat on Lefty until he shut up. Lefty survived that episode, but then after Len Bias died, he ordered his assistants to "Go over to the dorm and make sure everything's cleaned up." (This is "hubris," right -- the belief that you are God and can't be touched by ordinary mortals?) Even E.B. Williams could not save his sorry hide this time -- although he did work to preserve Lefty's ability to coach in the future, as he later did at JMU and Georgia State.

[UrinalCake]

In this environment, every coach would be doing the same thing. I'm sorry, but you cannot comment on anything related to sexual misconduct. Did you see what happened to Izzo for his comments?

Sure, but there's a difference between saying "I cannot comment on that because of privacy laws" versus saying "I don't know nothing, nobody told me anything daggummit." Roy makes it sound like he is not involved in the disciplinary process at all and that he has no clue what his players do off the court; some will choose to believe him while others will presume he actually does know what is going on and is just playing dumb.

[NSDukeFan]

I don't. Not at all. He's doing what his lawyers told him to do: play dumb and distance yourself publically, dagummit.

He'll have to hire some acting coaches for that one.


Sorry, couldn't resist.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Sure, but there's a difference between saying "I cannot comment on that because of privacy laws" versus saying "I don't know nothing, nobody told me anything daggummit." Roy makes it sound like he is not involved in the disciplinary process at all and that he has no clue what his players do off the court; some will choose to believe him while others will presume he actually does know what is going on and is just playing dumb.

I agree with your first part. Roy's wording is not ideal. As for the part about Roy's involvement in the disciplinary process, I tend to believe he doesn't have any input. No coach has any authority with these cases anymore. AD, legal council, and probably the President would all get involved and make the easy decision of removing the student from all university activities without caring what the coach has to say. 3-4 months ago, I'd argue the coach most certainly would have had a say in the matter (and then I wouldn't believe Roy if he said the same thing). These times a changing.

[budwom]

Sure, but there's a difference between saying "I cannot comment on that because of privacy laws" versus saying "I don't know nothing, nobody told me anything daggummit." Roy makes it sound like he is not involved in the disciplinary process at all and that he has no clue what his players do off the court; some will choose to believe him while others will presume he actually does know what is going on and is just playing dumb.

I always get a chuckle out of it when coaches plead ignorance about what's going on with their players. Just about all these guys (coaches) are alpha dogs who INSIST on knowing what's going on....until something goes wrong. Pitino and Ol' Roy are Lifetime Achievement Award Winners in this regard.

[JasonEvans]

I always get a chuckle out of it when coaches plead ignorance about what's going on with their players. Just about all these guys (coaches) are alpha dogs who INSIST on knowing what's going on...until something goes wrong. Pitino and Ol' Roy are Lifetime Achievement Award Winners in this regard.

We are talking about guys who have risen to the very top tier of a truly elite profession. The notion that they are not sticklers for detail with their fingers on the pulse of every single thing happening in their program is utterly ridiculous.

[left_hook_lacey]

We are talking about guys who have risen to the very top tier of a truly elite profession. The notion that they are not sticklers for detail with their fingers on the pulse of every single thing happening in their program is utterly ridiculous.

Funny thing is, I actually believe him this time. I think UNC wasted no time on this. They couldn't. Given everything they've just gone through, and the culture we're now in that holds a magnifying glass on sexual assault claims, I think UNC acted swiftly, and Roy wasn't in on the decision.

I've actually even been hearing from some UNC fans, that behind the scenes, Roy was pissed that he wasn't involved in the decision on how to handle this and was basically told what was going to happen and that was it. Of course, I have no evidence to back it up(also known as a rumor), but that feels like what really happened to me.

[sagegrouse]

Funny thing is, I actually believe him this time. I think UNC wasted no time on this. They couldn't. Given everything they've just gone through, and the culture we're now in that holds a magnifying glass on sexual assault claims, I think UNC acted swiftly, and Roy wasn't in on the decision.

I've actually even been hearing from some UNC fans, that behind the scenes, Roy was pissed that he wasn't involved in the decision on how to handle this and was basically told what was going to happen and that was it. Of course, I have no evidence to back it up(also known as a rumor), but that feels like what really happened to me.

I think it has changed more than a little since the time when Penn State coach Joe Paterno smiled at a dean who was prepared to suspend a football player and said, "I'll handle discipline for the football team."

[CameronBornAndBred]

Funny thing is, I actually believe him this time. I think UNC wasted no time on this. They couldn't. Given everything they've just gone through, and the culture we're now in that holds a magnifying glass on sexual assault claims, I think UNC acted swiftly, and Roy wasn't in on the decision.

I've actually even been hearing from some UNC fans, that behind the scenes, Roy was pissed that he wasn't involved in the decision on how to handle this and was basically told what was going to happen and that was it. Of course, I have no evidence to back it up(also known as a rumor), but that feels like what really happened to me.
I think the smart thing, instead of saying "I don't know", would be to say "I support the university's decision." But I also think it's smart not to end a game with three time outs, so what do I know.

[English]

I think it has changed more than a little since the time when Penn State coach Joe Paterno smiled at a dean who was prepared to suspend a football player and said, "I'll handle discipline for the football team."

Joe Paterno smiled?

[elvis14]

Funny thing is, I actually believe him this time.

I don't, not for a second.

Ironically, in this case Roy is probably doing the right thing by letting others handle whatever this is.... <-- hope that's vague enough, because I'm not putting anything that I don't know about on that player. Frankly, whatever it is, I hope it's somewhat minor and harmless.

[Spanarkel]

Agreed. And the best way we can honor that on this board is to avoid the speculation that has been going on in this thread, which I assume was what prompted uh_no's post.

We do not know what the allegations are. We do not know what the underlying facts are. Let the system play itself out. The fact that his lawyer has handled high-profile cases involving a certain type of allegation does not necessarily mean that those same allegations are being made here. It may simply mean that the lawyer handles high-profile cases of athletes, and obviously is good at it.

Ed Tolley in Athens is the go-to for UGA athletes in trouble. Doesn't matter the charge, he's the guy you want. There are plenty of reasons this lawyer may have been selected that are unrelated to what the specific allegations are. Good lawyers can handle a variety of matters.

It doesn't seem like Mr. Tolley was very successful in representing UGA basketball in its case with the NCAA(2003/4), and Mr. Tolley quickly washed his hands of former UGA AD Damon Evans' attempt to obtain legal representation in Athens for a DUI that led to his dismissal as AD.

https://www.dawgnation.com/football/opinion/unc-skates-issue-ncaa-torched-georgia

https://legalschnauzer.blogspot.com/2010/07/high-profile-dui-case-in-georgia.html

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think the smart thing, instead of saying "I don't know", would be to say "I support the university's decision." But I also think it's smart not to end a game with three time outs, so what do I know.

Ohhhhh....this is interesting. Remember Brodhead's initial response to the Duke lacrosse scandal and how alumni, students, and plenty of professors attacked him for not explicitly supporting the students? That could easily happen here.

As UrinalCake said, the best response is, "the university is looking into this. That's all I'm going to say."

[BLPOG]

this country was built on protecting the rights of the accused. it's a shame we discard that in this day and age. accusations ruin lives. there are still people convinced that "something must have happened" at the lax party.

There are ways to handle these situations that protect both the victim and the accused. Unfortunately, such actions usually don't jibe with the fire and brimstone that the population calls for in general. There is a general contest to see who can be "more outraged" in such scenarios. There is a brilliant quote from a piece of harry potter fan-fiction (methods of rationality) that I like:



Everybody is okay with being outraged at conservative actions taken against the accused and convicted...until they end up on the wrong side of it.

There was a fantastic series of articles in the chronicle last spring discussing how students are getting screwed by the honor council that rules on cheating matters. If the university can't seem to give even basic rights to people accused of cheating, then I have no faith that they will do so in larger cases. Again, the lacrosse case, unfortunately, is evidence of that...and were it not still fresh in the administrations mind, I bet we'd railroad those three guys again.

The victims have rights. the accused have rights. we can protect both of them.

I wish I could spork you for this post, first because it expresses quite well my own sentiments/thought process, but also because it is the first mention of Methods of Rationality I have seen on this board.

[Pghdukie]

Joe Paterno smiled?

Then Paterno threw the Dean out of his office and took said Dean off his Christmas card list.

[sagegrouse]

I think the smart thing, instead of saying "I don't know", would be to say "I support the university's decision." But I also think it's smart not to end a game with three time outs, so what do I know.

Roy Williams is a great coach, based not only on results but also on the offense and rebounding. His public utterances, however, are non-serious, seemingly insincere, often unintentionally comical, and occasionally disastrous (earthquakes in Haiti). Roy does well in recruiting, despite many misses the last few years. Supposedly, the Moms love him, whereas coach K appeals more to Dads ("We will make a man out of your son.") I dunno. I guess you don't need an impressive public persona to be a great coach -- Boeheim and Knight come to mind.

[UrinalCake]

I know we’re supposed to remain hush-hush on the topic of UNC cheating for decades and being completely absent of morality, so mods feel free to delete this post.

According to this article (which focuses on contracts that sneaker companies have with schools and head coaches), Roy and Fedora both failed to complete required paperwork to report outside sources of income. Immediately after the N&O requested copies of the paperwork, they filled it out. Rules just don’t apply over there.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article198024869.html

[Dukehky]

In this environment, every coach would be doing the same thing. I'm sorry, but you cannot comment on anything related to sexual misconduct. Did you see what happened to Izzo for his comments?

I know it's different, but Coach K did essentially the same thing when people asked about Sulaimon's situation a few years ago. He just said, it's FERPA, I can't talk about it.

I mean, Roy did essentially the same thing. I'm actually pleased with the way UNC has handled this thus far. If Felton did something wrong, then UNC has effectively distanced himself from it. If he didn't, then he'll likely be back playing basketball next year. Grand scheme of things, missing out on a couple months of hoops isn't that big of a deal.


That is not to say that I approve of nearly any college administration's handling of disciplinary matters. They almost always screw up.

[UrinalCake]

If Felton did something wrong, then UNC has effectively distanced himself from it. If he didn't, then he'll likely be back playing basketball next year.

Since he's been suspended from the university, doesn't that mean he'll automatically be ineligible to play next fall? I can't see how he can remain a student in good standing during the spring semester if he's not taking classes. Or maybe he could use the summer session to regain eligibility?

[Dukehky]

Since he's been suspended from the university, doesn't that mean he'll automatically be ineligible to play next fall? I can't see how he can remain a student in good standing during the spring semester if he's not taking classes. Or maybe he could use the summer session to regain eligibility?

I'm not super worried about the technicalities that would lead to Jalek Felton's reinstatement at UNC...


If you want to know some of the allegations, just search twitter for a little bit. There is one person in particular, who I know to be a real person who stands behind the statements. Dangerous territory, to be sure, but I'm not important. My opinion doesn't matter, and I know that if facts come out to the contrary, I'll be able to get over my original view on the matter. I know that's a risk with a vast majority of the public.

[PackMan97]

Was Markell Johnson excluded from going to classes?

To answer you question, I believe he was but I can't find a source. However, the bulk of the suspension was over the holiday break making it a mostly moot point. He was suspended on 12/16, however the final day of exams was 12/13 and graduation was 12/15. So there was no impact to his course work last year. Charges were dropped against him on 1/11, so that did impact him for the spring semester, however classes only started on 1/8, so he missed four days of school at the start of the semester (if he was excluded from attending).

The biggest difference I can see between Felton and Johnson is that we know Johnson was charged with a felony. We still have nothing but rumors from Felton's issues.

[Dukehky]

To answer you question, I believe he was but I can't find a source. However, the bulk of the suspension was over the holiday break making it a mostly moot point. He was suspended on 12/16, however the final day of exams was 12/13 and graduation was 12/15. So there was no impact to his course work last year. Charges were dropped against him on 1/11, so that did impact him for the spring semester, however classes only started on 1/8, so he missed four days of school at the start of the semester (if he was excluded from attending).

The biggest difference I can see between Felton and Johnson is that we know Johnson was charged with a felony. We still have nothing but rumors from Felton's issues.

Johnson was still taking classes. He was always enrolled at State. It was a student conduct rule that would not allow him to compete for NC State while he was being investigated.

[Bob Green]

Rumor mongering. We're not a tabloid and we're not going to be a party to propagating rumors. If you can't find a legitimate, mainstream media outlet with the information, it's likely a rumor. Don't post it. Asking about it, stating that it's a rumor, or linking to another message board's post is still rumor mongering.

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?21833-Decorum-amp-Posting-Guidelines-(Please-read-before-posting

Thanks!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?21833-Decorum-amp-Posting-Guidelines-(Please-read-before-posting

Thanks!

Aw man, my awesome Ferris Bueller quote didn't last.

[BLPOG]

Aw man, my awesome Ferris Bueller quote didn't last.

The DBR moderators move pretty fast. If you don't habitually refresh your browser and check every new post, you could miss one.

[OldPhiKap]

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?21833-Decorum-amp-Posting-Guidelines-(Please-read-before-posting

Thanks!

Hooray!


Aw man, my awesome Ferris Bueller quote didn't last.

But it did the job until Bob (or others) could mop up the mess.

I would, however, like to meet your sister’s boyfriend’s neighbor’s dog-walker’s daughter though. She sounds interesting.

(And if the rumors I hear about her are true, well . . . wait, can’t go there! That violates more than one DBR guideline.)

I imagine that real news will come out soon enough. And even then, it may only be one side of the story.