The Return of the XFL

[BLPOG]

Slated for 2020. Read (https://www.cbssports.com/wwe/news/this-is-the-xfl-again-controversial-football-league-set-to-return-in-2020/) for yourself.

I can't wait to see the follow-up to He Hate Me.

[BLPOG]

Although I'm not sure I like the sound of it as described here (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22213241/vince-mcmahon-gimmick-free-xfl-return-2020). "Gimmick-free?" The gimmicks were the best part of the XFL.

[BD80]

Does "He [still] Hate Me?"

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Does "He [still] Hate Me?"

I Still Hate Me? (ESPN 30 For 30?)

[left_hook_lacey]

Although I'm not sure I like the sound of it as described here (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22213241/vince-mcmahon-gimmick-free-xfl-return-2020). "Gimmick-free?" The gimmicks were the best part of the XFL.

Agree. No fair catch, nicknames on Jersey's, scantily clad cheerleaders. The gimmicks were the reason it got the ratings it did.

[BeachBlueDevil]

Vince McMahon is fantastic businessman. What he's done with WWE is amazing. He took something that was on the surface of mainstream for years and took it mainstream. He has the longest running episodic television show (Monday Night Raw) to his name. He has reality shows on E! and USA. WWE has a movie studio and a successful streaming service. It's really remarkable what he's done in the last 20 years... Aside from the first XFL failure he's done great.

I watched the press conference yesterday and I like most of what he said. Particularly when he said he's going to make the game faster (2 hr run time) and I imagine that they might shorten the field length to 80 yards and I could see 10 minute quarters with a running for the first 8 minutes of each quarter. All of which would mean a faster pace of play and a shorter field (should mean) more scoring... I mean who doesn't love seeing high scoring shootouts. He also mentioned making the game safer which means I could see kickoffs being eliminated.

Now my biggest thing I dislike is the fact where going to be inundated with football. As soon as the NFL ends, this will start. I'd like for it to start late February and run until mid-April. At least this way you get a little breathing time between Super Bowl and the XFL start. I think one of the biggest things against the XFL will be the over saturation of football. The first time around the NFL wasn't the juggernaut that it is today.

So it will certainly be interesting to see how this goes this time around. Especially how the XFL can use and leverage social media this time around.

[CDu]

I watched the press conference yesterday and I like most of what he said. Particularly when he said he's going to make the game faster (2 hr run time) and I imagine that they might shorten the field length to 80 yards and I could see 10 minute quarters with a running for the first 8 minutes of each quarter. All of which would mean a faster pace of play and a shorter field (should mean) more scoring... I mean who doesn't love seeing high scoring shootouts. He also mentioned making the game safer which means I could see kickoffs being eliminated.

The problem is that we already have this. It's called the Arena Football League. Shorter fields, higher scoring, spring season. And it isn't terribly popular. Not sure why we'd expect the XFL to do better.

McMahon is a marketing genius who revolutionized professional wrestling. He deserves a lot of credit for that, and has made his fortune off of it accordingly. But I fear he's repeating another failure here with the return of the XFL.

[BeachBlueDevil]

The problem is that we already have this. It's called the Arena Football League. Shorter fields, higher scoring, spring season. And it isn't terribly popular. Not sure why we'd expect the XFL to do better.

McMahon is a marketing genius who revolutionized professional wrestling. He deserves a lot of credit for that, and has made his fortune off of it accordingly. But I fear he's repeating another failure here with the return of the XFL.

Is arena football league on TV anymore? I haven't seen it in ages. The marketing that he's used to grow WWE is going to be used here. I know he said no crossover but I can almost guarantee that some of the marquee stars of the WWE will be tweeting and posting stuff on Instagram about the XFL. It will make people curious and they will tune in but it will be the leagues job to keep them at that point.

I guess the biggest question is what will mean this is successful? Vince turning a profit? Lasting longer than a season? Expansion? He's got 2 years to figure it out and the first time around it was pretty much a rush job.

[CDu]

Is arena football league on TV anymore? I haven't seen it in ages. The marketing that he's used to grow WWE is going to be used here. I know he said no crossover but I can almost guarantee that some of the marquee stars of the WWE will be tweeting and posting stuff on Instagram about the XFL. It will make people curious and they will tune in but it will be the leagues job to keep them at that point.

I guess the biggest question is what will mean this is successful? Vince turning a profit? Lasting longer than a season? Expansion? He's got 2 years to figure it out and the first time around it was pretty much a rush job.

Yep, on ESPN. But their ratings are awful. Largely because the on-field product just isn't that interesting. And probably because folks have moved on from football by that point. They just don't appear to be as interested in watching bad football in the spring.

I have no doubt that McMahon will market the heck out of this. But, ultimately, will people care? It's going to be a very watered-down product, and at a time when folks are moving on to baseball and college basketball.

The XFL was unsuccessful, and that's despite his marketing genius and some clever ideas. This seems to be avoiding the clever ideas part and relying heavily on the marketing. It just doesn't seem destined to succeed.

[Natty_B]

Wouldn't be surprised to see this fail to get off the ground. By 2020 I don't think there will be much of an appetite for a more head injury prone type of football (and yes I know Vince said it would be "safe" but then he laid out a bunch of changes - faster play, no halftime that would surely make the game less safe). His base audience is clearly going to be the Trump type fans and those dudes, like Trump himself, want more violence. The whole XFL was very popular on fringe right wing twitter yesterday because of the "I'll make them stand for the anthem" statement (gross).

Course I think pro wrestling is garbage and the McMahon's are garbage people. YMMV.

[Natty_B]

Yep, on ESPN. But their ratings are awful. Largely because the on-field product just isn't that interesting. And probably because folks have moved on from football by that point. They just don't appear to be as interested in watching bad football in the spring.

I have no doubt that McMahon will market the heck out of this. But, ultimately, will people care? It's going to be a very watered-down product, and at a time when folks are moving on to baseball and college basketball.

The XFL was unsuccessful, and that's despite his marketing genius and some clever ideas. This seems to be avoiding the clever ideas part and relying heavily on the marketing. It just doesn't seem destined to succeed.

There are only 5 Arena football teams left - the league is on whatever after life support is.

[CDu]

There are only 5 Arena football teams left - the league is on whatever after life support is.

Yep, that's my point. It's all of the things that are being described here (fast-paced, high-scoring, not competing with the NFL, etc.), and it is failing miserably.

[left_hook_lacey]

Yep, on ESPN. But their ratings are awful. Largely because the on-field product just isn't that interesting. And probably because folks have moved on from football by that point. They just don't appear to be as interested in watching bad football in the spring.

I have no doubt that McMahon will market the heck out of this. But, ultimately, will people care? It's going to be a very watered-down product, and at a time when folks are moving on to baseball and college basketball.

The XFL was unsuccessful, and that's despite his marketing genius and some clever ideas. This seems to be avoiding the clever ideas part and relying heavily on the marketing. It just doesn't seem destined to succeed.

What I gathered in the article was that the XFL was garnering some ratings. What doomed it, according to the article, was McMahon rushing the final product before it was ready, coupled with his risque', albeit clever, gimmicks like the cheerleaders, no fair catch, etc. He moved the needle on some of the rules mid-season, that, coupled with the gimmicks, made his NBC partners uncomfortable at the direction the product was going so they pulled their support. That, is what killed it.

Fast forward to 2018, and there's no way they can incorporate those things into anything in sports without risk of law suits. So, he's going to have to be really clever to get people to take notice again.

I did find it interesting that he said they would take measures to ensure there were no political controversies, alluding to protests, etc., and that there would be rules in place to make sure that doesn't happen. Could he find his audience in those that are boycotting NFL because of protests? At least partially? If he played that card right, it could be interesting as that is still a hot-button issue. I can't see the NFL getting through the superbowl without offending one side or both sides of that issue. McMahon might be able to pick up on that and run with it in advertising for the XFL.

[CDu]

I did find it interesting that he said they would take measures to ensure there were no political controversies, alluding to protests, etc., and that there would be rules in place to make sure that doesn't happen. Could he find his audience in those that are boycotting NFL because of protests? At least partially? If he played that card right, it could be interesting as that is still a hot-button issue. I can't see the NFL getting through the superbowl without offending one side or both sides of that issue. McMahon might be able to pick up on that and run with it in advertising for the XFL.

I heard that, and it's amusing because by bringing that up he is clearly making it political (otherwise, there'd be no reason to bring it up). But I agree that it does appear that he is dog whistling to those offended by NFL protests.

But my question is this: how many folks actually gave up on the NFL because of the protests? TV ratings were down 5-10% this year, but how much of that was the on-field product (lots of injured star players)? How much was due to general decline in TV viewership?

I just don't think that there is a significant enough population of anti-protest NFL quitters to build a league-wide fanbase upon, especially given the substantial reduction in quality of the on-field product.

[left_hook_lacey]

I heard that, and it's amusing because by bringing that up he is clearly making it political (otherwise, there'd be no reason to bring it up). But I agree that it does appear that he is dog whistling to those offended by NFL protests.

But my question is this: how many folks actually gave up on the NFL because of the protests? TV ratings were down 5-10% this year, but how much of that was the on-field product (lots of injured star players)? How much was due to general decline in TV viewership?

I just don't think that there is a significant enough population of anti-protest NFL quitters to build a league-wide fanbase upon, especially given the substantial reduction in quality of the on-field product.

I don't know. I don't think anyone has been able to put an accurate number on it. The only thing we do know, is that they have dropped for the last two years.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/04/media/nfl-ratings-season/index.html

My only point was, it's still a ratings monster in America, so if I'm building a new football league and want to get as many viewers as I can, I'm going after every viewer I can get that has turned their back on the NFL or is thinking about it. I'll give them their football fix.

The article says ratings were down 9-11%, and 10% the year before that. If I can steal even a quarter of those viewers, that's a bolster for a new league trying to get off the ground.

[Natty_B]

this about sums it up for me:

https://deadspin.com/the-new-xfl-is-dumb-as-hell-but-thank-god-its-not-actua-1822447469

[Matches]

But my question is this: how many folks actually gave up on the NFL because of the protests? TV ratings were down 5-10% this year, but how much of that was the on-field product (lots of injured star players)? How much was due to general decline in TV viewership?



If my Facebook timeline is any indication, lots of people said they were ditching the NFL because of the protests. The only ones who actually followed through, though, were people who didn't watch much if any football to begin with. And by 2020, a good chunk of even the people who still care NOW won't anymore.

I think the Deadspin article has it right. This is highly unlikely to actually happen.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Paul Newberry says the XFL won't work, but offers up some ideas on how Spring football could.

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/column-spring-football-could-work-but-xfl2-not-the-answer/17290868/

[left_hook_lacey]

If my Facebook timeline is any indication, lots of people said they were ditching the NFL because of the protests. The only ones who actually followed through, though, were people who didn't watch much if any football to begin with. And by 2020, a good chunk of even the people who still care NOW won't anymore.

I think the Deadspin article has it right. This is highly unlikely to actually happen.

I think it all depends on how the NFL handles this during this Superbowl and during the off season. I would be willing to bet my paycheck that this off season will see some procedural changes to take the issue out of the public view next year. The easiest thing to do is to have the teams stay in the locker room during the anthem. It let's the NFL off the hook without choosing a side, and ensures MOST fans will forget about it over time. Only then will this go away.

I can tell you from personal experience, i know a lot of people that were die hard fans that haven't watched a snap this year. I have others that had a good run, but buckled and watched the playoffs.

If the NFL makes this "out of sight out of mind", it'll go away pretty quickly. If they don't, it won't. I wouldn't underestimate the true size of that demographic. That's how so many people were shocked on election night.

It says this entity will be completely separate from WWE, unlike the first attempt. He sold off WWE stock to fund it. I wonder if he had any other sponsors or partners behind the scenes?

Linda Mcmahon is in Trump's cabinet. Wonder if trump is going to pony up?

[duke74]

I can tell you from personal experience, i know a lot of people that were die hard fans that haven't watched a snap this year. I have others that had a good run, but buckled and watched the playoffs.


I know bordering on PPB, but only in response to this comment (no worse than equating President Trump with violence as was done above by a poster):

I am one of them, without the “buckling.” And actually from last year. (Was a season ticket holder for years)

To me the NFL took sides by inaction. Merely hiding the players to avoid bad looks will not change my activities. Players have a right to protest, but so do I.

Amazing what 6-10 incremental free hours can help one accomplish in a week.

I just don’t care about the NFL anymore.

[JNort]

I know bordering on PPB, but only in response to this comment (no worse than equating President Trump with violence as was done above by a poster):

I am one of them, without the “buckling.” And actually from last year. (Was a season ticket holder for years)

To me the NFL took sides by inaction. Merely hiding the players to avoid bad looks will not change my activities. Players have a right to protest, but so do I.

Amazing what 6-10 incremental free hours can help one accomplish in a week.

I just don’t care about the NFL anymore.
I work with multiple people as well who were rabid fans and just quit watching 3 weeks in due to the kneeling.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I find this thread fascinating. I heard online of so many folks threatening to not watch over the controversy, but assumed it was just yammering. I personally don't know anyone who followed through on those threats, and it seemed like a very odd thing to do. In my mind there are so many more pressing issues and other good reasons to stop watching. I suppose I have learned something. Just not sure what, exactly.

(in before the thread goes full PPB and gets locked!)

[BLPOG]

(in before the thread goes full PPB and gets locked!)

That will not happen. This thread is one about the human condition, not some political ephemera!

[left_hook_lacey]

I find this thread fascinating. I heard online of so many folks threatening to not watch over the controversy, but assumed it was just yammering. I personally don't know anyone who followed through on those threats, and it seemed like a very odd thing to do. In my mind there are so many more pressing issues and other good reasons to stop watching. I suppose I have learned something. Just not sure what, exactly.

(in before the thread goes full PPB and gets locked!)

To be honest, I think it was more than the kneeling. That was just the straw that broke the camel's back for some. The domestic violence issues, concussions and the cover up, the unprofessionalism of some players, the stupid interpretations of some of the rules of completing a catch and the series of reviews that slows the game down(did he survive the ground?). All this, and deep down, I think there is so much football to watch, some people were feeling guilty for wasting so much free time watching football.

All that, and then players start sitting or kneeling during the anthem, I think enough was enough for some.

NFL is still putting out the most watched shows in America, but losing ratings 3 years in a row is not something the owners will just sit on the sidelines and continue to watch happen. They will find a way to make the kneeling go away.

The problem I see with the xfl is that it must differentiate itself from the NFL. It did accomplish that the first attempt, but still failed. The quicker games is the only thing so far that I see as being more appealing than the nfl version.

But, just like last time, anything the xfl does that is seen as innovative, there's nothing stopping the NFL from adapting it. The NFL adapted the sky cam from xfl and still uses it today.

McMahon has an uphill climb, but I wouldn't count him out too early.

[BLPOG]

XFL unveils 8 team cities, stadiums, says games will be cheaper, fast-paced (https://www.foxbusiness.com/features/xfl-unveils-8-team-cities-stadiums-says-games-will-be-cheaper-fast-paced)

Play is scheduled to begin on February 8, 2020.

[CameronBornAndBred]

XFL unveils 8 team cities, stadiums, says games will be cheaper, fast-paced (https://www.foxbusiness.com/features/xfl-unveils-8-team-cities-stadiums-says-games-will-be-cheaper-fast-paced)

Play is scheduled to begin on February 8, 2020.

Seems pretty goofy to me to have every single one of your cities already hosting an NFL team. So does the idea of starting play in early February.
While I love football, I'm pretty done with it after the Super Bowl and I'm enjoying other sports.

[rasputin]

Seems pretty goofy to me to have every single one of your cities already hosting an NFL team. So does the idea of starting play in early February.
While I love football, I'm pretty done with it after the Super Bowl and I'm enjoying other sports.

Not "every single one." St. Louis no longer has an NFL franchise, thanks to owner Stan Kroenke, who said he was going to do everything he could to keep the team here, which turned out to be nothing.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Not "every single one." St. Louis no longer has an NFL franchise, thanks to owner Stan Kroenke, who said he was going to do everything he could to keep the team here, which turned out to be nothing.

Oh yeah. Enjoy spring ball, St. Louis!

[BLPOG]

XFL Draft tracker: Live results, complete picks list, rosters for new football league (https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/xfl-draft-tracker-results-picks-list-rosters-football-league/jahz8p84e4i61hb8lajqs4a22)

[wilson]

XFL Draft tracker: Live results, complete picks list, rosters for new football league (https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/xfl-draft-tracker-results-picks-list-rosters-football-league/jahz8p84e4i61hb8lajqs4a22)Max McCaffrey has been drafted by the DC Defenders.
I'll make sure to get the "Dukies in the XFL" thread cranked up as soon as I'm able.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Not "every single one." St. Louis no longer has an NFL franchise, thanks to owner Stan Kroenke, who said he was going to do everything he could to keep the team here, which turned out to be nothing.

Well, IIRC, St. Louis lost population over the 70s 80s 90s while most NFL cities were growing like crazy...and at some point, it was simply a very small city by pro standards. And it's a huge (baseball) Cardinal town to boot. That ties up the sports fans for 81 home games a season plus playoffs. A lot of cities struggle to have good support for both an MLB and NFL franchise. So I don't know if it's all on the owner, or more on demographic realities.

[rasputin]

Well, IIRC, St. Louis lost population over the 70s 80s 90s while most NFL cities were growing like crazy...and at some point, it was simply a very small city by pro standards. And it's a huge (baseball) Cardinal town to boot. That ties up the sports fans for 81 home games a season plus playoffs. A lot of cities struggle to have good support for both an MLB and NFL franchise. So I don't know if it's all on the owner, or more on demographic realities.

St. Louis did NOT struggle to support the Rams. The team was so bad for so long, and that will happen with just about any franchise.

You are, of course, correct that St. Louis is the Cardinals' team first, but you might look at the unwavering support of the Blues, who needed over fifty years to finally win a Stanley Cup. The Blues' ownership certainly isn't bad-mouthing the city and its fans.

Finally, you might not know that the St. Louis city limits are drawn fairly small. References to the city's population that don't take into account the larger metro area (on both sides of the river) don't mean anything. Yes, this area has grown slowly of late, but the notion that this town isn't big enough for multiple sports franchises doesn't hold water.