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JBDuke
01-23-2018, 11:07 PM
Put your post-game thoughts here.

weezie
01-23-2018, 11:10 PM
Good M2M. A sight for sore eyes. Solid game. Grayson was terrific. This is his team.

Bluegrassdevil1
01-23-2018, 11:11 PM
Solid victory for the good guys, but the weekend clash looms large.

It is time to see what the team does in a big boy conference game.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-23-2018, 11:11 PM
Road win. Good D. Go Duke.

Dub
01-23-2018, 11:12 PM
Double digit win in the ACC on the road before a HUGE home game. Color me satisfied. Carter, Bagley, and Grayson held down the fort. Nice minutes from AOC with a sprinkle of Casey Sanders...I mean Javin D. All in all, any road win in the ACC is a good win. On to the next one...

Troublemaker
01-23-2018, 11:12 PM
Fifth straight game we've held an opponent under 1 point a possession and not coincidentally, fifth straight game we've beaten our kenpom projection defensively. Expect another boost in defensive rank.

Duke76
01-23-2018, 11:14 PM
Road win. Good D. Go Duke.

Duval needs to follow Grayson's lead....feed the big men.....his primary purpose is to set other guys up in his role as point guard. Believe that was the point K was making the last 8 mins of game.

PackMan97
01-23-2018, 11:15 PM
A road win is a road win.

Saratoga2
01-23-2018, 11:16 PM
Seems like the Wake strategy was they knew they couldn't matchup in talent so they resorted to a physical game with a lot of fouling. It seemed to throw Bagley off a bit but he still had a solid game. Carter had another great game as he handles the physicality as well as anyone in the ACC. Trent quietly goes about his business and Allen showed improvement but he did fall into a rough stretch in the second half with 5 empty possessions in a row. O'Connell also chipped in. He is a very good sub to have to give a lift to the team when he comes in.

Duval didn't click tonight. Maybe the setting got to him or he was sick> Whatever, I expect a return to Cameron will bring him out of it. We will need a good outing to beat Virginia.

Billy Dat
01-23-2018, 11:17 PM
Double digit win in the ACC on the road before a HUGE home game. Color me satisfied. Carter, Bagley, and Grayson held down the fort. Nice minutes from AOC with a sprinkle of Casey Sanders...I mean Javin D. All in all, any road win in the ACC is a good win. On to the next one...

Agree with all of these sentiments. I was most pleased with Grayson's taking the reigns from an erratic Trevon when the lead was starting to shrink and getting us back to neutral and then pushing the lead back out. Carter and Trent are really putting together a nice string of games during this streak. I feel like this game was evidence of very positive growth.

Now it's time to turn into the Grinch, I hope we take it all, including the roast beast.

UrinalCake
01-23-2018, 11:18 PM
Looked great for most of the game. Let off the gas too early, then had to rebuild the lead. Grayson was awesome as a leader and distributor. Rough game for Duval but he missed a lot of finishes at the rim that he normally makes. His shooting came back to earth in a big way. Bagley and Carter were theirnusually unstoppable selves.

Hats off to the Neanderthal from Wake, he had a monster game against our bigs.

ipatent
01-23-2018, 11:20 PM
Good energy and decent defense on the road in what could have been a trap game.

curtis325
01-23-2018, 11:20 PM
Road warriors.

Watch out Cavaliers!

Home warriors too, I hope.

TheOldBattleship
01-23-2018, 11:22 PM
Heck of a game by Grayson. He often has a bit of a hard time with finding the balance between being the solid senior captain that this team needs and being the creative spark kind of guy that fits better with his game, but man, he walked that line with aplomb tonight! Really nice to see a few shots fall for him, but his decision-making, especially his ability to make the right choices in split-second situations, was what really stood out to me.

sagegrouse
01-23-2018, 11:24 PM
Stat of the game: Duke took 39 FREE THROWS -- making 30 for a respectable 77 percent.

devildeac
01-23-2018, 11:26 PM
Stat of the game: Duke took 39 FREE THROWS -- making 30 for a respectable 77 percent.

After starting 8/13 at one point, IIRC. Very impressive.

mgtr
01-23-2018, 11:26 PM
Well, ho-hum sort of game. Duke won, but certainly didn't play to our potential. People who should be good, were, pretty much. Duval seemed tired or lazy, but that allowed O'Connell to play a lot of the game. When I watch O'Connell play I think of Grayson Allen as a freshman. Now, GA saved our bacon in the NCAA finals against Wisconsin. O'Connell strikes me as the same kind of player, though GA has a little more down and dirty built into him. Will be interesting to see how the rest of the season plays out.l
Trent has been a very positive factor, and DeLaurier had been a wild card (emphasis on wild). If we get Bolden back, he will help, but will also be critical for next year.
I am putting my hand in the fire for Duke to win it all. If that doesn't happen, I don't know what strange action I will attempt. Short of self-immolation (God, what a way to go!) I will do something. Since the devil up the road won 11 NCAA tournament games in two years, we have to best them. So, lets get it in gear and go. Have to play better than tonight -- although they did look as if they were having fun, which counts for something.

Hauerwas
01-23-2018, 11:28 PM
The team has grown up quickly. This could have been a serious trap game prior to Virginia, especially how Wake always seems to play lights on when we come to town. But solid defense, great communication, quality play from Grayson, Carter and Bagley was enough to be in control from the outset. To do that on the road after a quick turnaround game with them a few days ago says the team is locked in, and improving. The defense was good, forced turnovers, and just played solid.

Loved seeing Allen back on track, we need his 17 points per game moving forward. Right now the ACC is a two team race, I think we catch UVA as long as their weak schedule provides for a couple more losses... They seem to always have the easiest road games and only play us and UNC once. Weird.

Duval is fine, just missed some bunnies, thankfully no major turnover issues.

ncexnyc
01-23-2018, 11:28 PM
For awhile it appeared that my Monkey Shoulder was going to be needed in order to calm me down, but now it's serving its true purpose as a celebratory drink.

Wake is a pesky club and we could never seem to land that clean knockout punch, but the kids kept plugging away and finally Wake faded like road kill in the rearview mirror.

Moore and Saar missed a lot of close shots against UVA the other night, something I don't expect to happen with Carter and MBIII. So I feel really good about our upcoming game with UVa.

Good games from everyone not named Duval, but those things happen and have happened to all of our kids. Take it as a learning opportunity and move onto the next game.

It's a really great feeling knowing you can dump the ball down low to either Carter or MBIII and know that 9 times out of 10 something good is going to happen.

Tappan Zee Devil
01-23-2018, 11:29 PM
OK -

At a meeting and couldn't see the game on TV or watchESPN (assuming it was there) - but two questions
- How did we get out rebounded 37 -31 according to the ESPN box score?
Moore is a huge dude, but otherwise they are not a large team.

- what's up with 0-8 shooting and only 2 assists for Duval?

Bluegrassdevil1
01-23-2018, 11:31 PM
8027


UVA vs. Duke in sweet science form.

BullBlue
01-23-2018, 11:31 PM
Heck of a game by Grayson. He often has a bit of a hard time with finding the balance between being the solid senior captain that this team needs and being the creative spark kind of guy that fits better with his game, but man, he walked that line with aplomb tonight! Really nice to see a few shots fall for him, but his decision-making, especially his ability to make the right choices in split-second situations, was what really stood out to me.


Loved Grayson's passing tonight. His pass out of the double team to Bagley for the alley-oop was beautiful to behold.

TheOldBattleship
01-23-2018, 11:35 PM
Duval needs to follow Grayson's lead...feed the big men....his primary purpose is to set other guys up in his role as point guard. Believe that was the point K was making the last 8 mins of game.

Let it be said that post entry passing, especially for a guard who can't just see over the d, is REALLY hard. Grayson is a really exceptional passer into the post, which has been an underrated aspect in how well the two big guys have been able to score throughout the year. Duval does a pretty good job of feeding the post, but he's much better getting the ball down there when he's on the move and has been able to create the passing angles with his dribble penetration. Lots of people have played him exclusively to pass to the bigs (no help on his drives from the bigs leaving Bagley or Duval open on the weak side), and for the most part he's been able to make people pay with his generally good finishing. When he scores a couple, the help starts to come (even if it's technically against the other team's scheme) and his passing lanes open up a bit.

Today, for whatever reason, he just wasn't really able to get ANYTHING to drop, and so he also wasn't as effective getting the ball to the bigs as he normally is. I'm pretty content to just chalk this up to a tough game for a freshman. It'll be very interesting to see how he comes out and plays against UVA, one of the absolutely most impeccably schemed defenses for stopping guards who play like Duval (or just about anybody generally).

DukieInBrasil
01-23-2018, 11:38 PM
9 points from 5 shots off the bench? Yes please!
Duke survived Duval's worst game of the year with excellent play from Grayson and Gary.
I like how Wendell is making teams pay for all the extra attention they're giving Marvin.
14 pt win on the road? Thank you!

Billy Dat
01-23-2018, 11:38 PM
Great K presser close, when asked about Wendell's continued improvement, after mentioning that he's 10-15 pounds lighter and intensely focused on improving his conditioning, he talked about how he's added a face-up game and that he's going to be playing ball for a long time, "He's 6'10", 245, can handle and shoot...besides that he stinks! Watch now, someone's going to write that I said he stinks and I'm going to hear from his parents."

Other comments:
-Team is constantly working on D and has been getting better every game since State, they are buying in and really moving their feet well
-Duval didn't play well, but he's played well all season and K trusts him. Young players and young teams have trouble with consistent performance
-The only thing that stopped Moore was foul trouble because "we couldn't stop him on defense"
-AOC's minutes were big because he brings greater size to the zone
-Said he's old school and prefers the conference round robin when you played in a particular order, rather then how these two games against Wake were so close together.

Ian
01-23-2018, 11:40 PM
OK -

At a meeting and couldn't see the game on TV or watchESPN (assuming it was there) - but two questions
- How did we get out rebounded 37 -31 according to the ESPN box score?
Moore is a huge dude, but otherwise they are not a large team.

- what's up with 0-8 shooting and only 2 assists for Duval?

Duval was awful in this game, so bad he got benched down the stretch for AOC. He was out of control, took bad shots, and let wake players blow past him repeatedly. I'll wait for the +/1 numbers but it certainly seemed that everytime he was in the game Wake made a run.

tbyers11
01-23-2018, 11:40 PM
OK -

At a meeting and couldn't see the game on TV or watchESPN (assuming it was there) - but two questions
- How did we get out rebounded 37 -31 according to the ESPN box score?
Moore is a huge dude, but otherwise they are not a large team.

- what's up with 0-8 shooting and only 2 assists for Duval?

We forced Wake into 21 turnovers. That is a lot of defensive rebounding opportunities gone missing.
When Wake did shoot we gave up too many ORebs. 16 (6 by Moore alone).
We also shot a lot (39) FTs. That's several possessions where we probably get a few more ORebs if we aren't going to the line as much

Duval forced a lot of drives early in the shot clock and general had a pretty poor game from a decision-making POV. He sat the bench the last 11 min or so.

AtlDuke72
01-23-2018, 11:47 PM
Childress looks almost exactly like his father and his mannerism on the court are just the same too. Tonight he played like him too.

Dub
01-23-2018, 11:52 PM
Duval was awful in this game, so bad he got benched down the stretch for AOC. He was out of control, took bad shots, and let wake players blow past him repeatedly. I'll wait for the +/1 numbers but it certainly seemed that everytime he was in the game Wake made a run.

I respectfully disagree with your assessment of Trevon’s game tonite. Typically the complaint about “bad” Trevon are his mental lapses and bad decision-making leading to turnovers. Tonight he just missed a few contested but very makeable (at least for him) layups.

As far as his defense is concerned, he was solid all night. He was just off offensively and K decided to let him watch for the rest of the game with a comfortable lead. I wouldn’t read much into it and I know for a fact Trevon will be an impact player as we hit the home stretch. On to the next one...

tbyers11
01-24-2018, 12:02 AM
I respectfully disagree with your assessment of Trevon’s game tonite. Typically the complaint about “bad” Trevon are his mental lapses and bad decision-making leading to turnovers. Tonight he just missed a few contested but very makeable (at least for him) layups.

As far as his defense is concerned, he was solid all night. He was just off offensively and K decided to let him watch for the rest of the game with a comfortable lead. I wouldn’t read much into it and I know for a fact Trevon will be an impact player as we hit the home stretch. On to the next one...

Duval is very good at finishing at the rim so I agree that normally he makes a couple of those.

However, IMO, many of those shots were poor decisions. Early in the shot clock with little prior ball movement. A lot of drives through heavy traffic instead of waiting and picking your spots after ball movement. Poor floor balance from "unexpected" drives led to transition opportunities for Wake.

Coach K doesn't usually pull his starting PG for the last 10 min or so of the game because a few of his shots aren't falling. Despite all his talent, he is still a freshman PG and he will have ups and downs. I agree that Duval will be very important over the rest of the season.

pfrduke
01-24-2018, 12:08 AM
I thought Wake got several offensive rebounds because they missed shots so badly that it turned into loose ball opportunities. Our guys were in good position for boards off of normal missed shots but Wake was chunking things off the backboard, front rim, side rim, etc that went every which way and bounced into Deacon hands. Still could have been better, but I didn’t think the fundamentals of our rebounding were as bad as the numbers.

dragoneye776
01-24-2018, 12:11 AM
3-0 on the road after switching away from black uniforms for road games

Coincidence? I think not

tbyers11
01-24-2018, 12:14 AM
I thought Wake got several offensive rebounds because they missed shots so badly that it turned into loose ball opportunities. Our guys were in good position for boards off of normal missed shots but Wake was chunking things off the backboard, front rim, side rim, etc that went every which way and bounced into Deacon hands. Still could have been better, but I didn’t think the fundamentals of our rebounding were as bad as the numbers.

I recall 2 or 3 of those in the first half. One of Moore 1st ORebs in the first half also came on a play where Bagley knocked the rebound out of Carter's hands right into Moore's hands.

There were also several times were we didn't get a body on a man or our rotations led to poor recovery and rebounding position. Defensive rebounding actually has not been a strong suit of ours but agree there was a bit more bad luck than normal tonight.

Ian
01-24-2018, 12:15 AM
I thought Wake got several offensive rebounds because they missed shots so badly that it turned into loose ball opportunities. Our guys were in good position for boards off of normal missed shots but Wake was chunking things off the backboard, front rim, side rim, etc that went every which way and bounced into Deacon hands. Still could have been better, but I didn’t think the fundamentals of our rebounding were as bad as the numbers.

We also turned them over a ton which took away many chances for rebounding their misses. Overall I'm not too concerned about the rebounding either.

luburch
01-24-2018, 06:48 AM
Thought last night had trap game written all over it. Happy it was a comfortable win.

Grayson was great last night. He's had a little difficulty trying to figure out how to balance scoring and being a play maker. He was exceptional at both tonight.

Treyvon had a rough night, that's bound to happen over the course of the season, the rest of the team was there to pick him up.

WC was phenomenal throughout and Bagley asserted himself the last ten-twelve minutes of the game. The more post touches those guys get, the better.

Defense is handling ball screens better, but that's easy to do against Wake and Pitt. Excited to see how they look on Saturday. Big time game at Cameron.

dukelifer
01-24-2018, 07:00 AM
I thought this was one of Duke’s better games. Took a lead - managed a few runs from Wake who competed all night and won comfortably. The D was disruptive which is infinitely better than porous. Duke needs to block out better on the defensive end. Grayson played like a senior. It would have been great if his shot continued to fall at the end but he left it all out there. AOC gave a big lift on a night that Duval could not finish on offense. Carter was great. He is improving at a rapid rate. Same goes for Trent who is steady now. Bags had a few wow moments but teams are playing him more physically and seeing if he can convert from the line. Duke will need to adjust. I hope it is not to put him at the top and let him shoot threes. Right now Duval has to become more consistent and reduce the mental errors. He has the toughest job of all but Duke can manage an off night with AOC. Big test coming up but this team is much better.

WVDUKEFAN
01-24-2018, 07:01 AM
Stat of the game: Duke took 39 FREE THROWS -- making 30 for a respectable 77 percent.

This is a great observation. When we get to the line, it shows we are being aggressive offensively. Even though the stats didn't show up for Tre in the box score, he drove to the rim tonight, which is what we need him to do. It gets us put backs, kick outs and otherwise opens us up offensively.

gocanes0506
01-24-2018, 07:45 AM
Stat of the game: Duke took 39 FREE THROWS -- making 30 for a respectable 77 percent.

And no chicken sandwiches given!

devilsince1977
01-24-2018, 08:00 AM
Good road win.

Good work from Grayson, Wendell, Gary, and Marvin.
Tough night for Trevon. He has come up gimpy a couple times the last couple games. I wonder if he is nursing a bum leg. He does not seem to be getting the lift he was earlier. He wasn't pulled for missing the shots. He was pulled for not hustling back on defense after a missed shot.
Gary and Trevon had 0 rebounds, that is not acceptable when we give up 16 offensive rebounds.
Good game by AOC
Javin needs to slow down a little bit. His mind is way ahead of his body. But, he was better tonight.

Ted Valentine needs to retire. He may have been pretty good a few years ago(I don't really believe this, just trying to be diplomatic), but he is now pitiful.

mgtr
01-24-2018, 08:21 AM
Others may have mentioned this, but AOC reminds me of freshman Grayson Allen. Both were overshadowed by other Frosh. Grayson had his first good game against Wake, AOC has now had two good games against Wake. AOC is not super-aggressive like Grayson, but who is. Hopefully AOC gets a chance to shine in the National championship game.

Ima Facultiwyfe
01-24-2018, 08:35 AM
Childress looks almost exactly like his father and his mannerism on the court are just the same too. Tonight he played like him too.

They are both sharp dudes, aren't they?
Love, Ima

dukelifer
01-24-2018, 08:35 AM
Others may have mentioned this, but AOC reminds me of freshman Grayson Allen. Both were overshadowed by other Frosh. Grayson had his first good game against Wake, AOC has now had two good games against Wake. AOC is not super-aggressive like Grayson, but who is. Hopefully AOC gets a chance to shine in the National championship game.

The kid is the perfect 6th man. He can hit shots off the bench, brings energy and has a flair about his game. He is not scared and knows his role. K trusts him a lot. He is solidly in the rotation.

budwom
01-24-2018, 08:38 AM
Kudos to Danny Manning for his I'm Not Whining About Free Throws whining...that's not what made your guys look like they were playing on roller skates, Danny.

Atldukie79
01-24-2018, 09:08 AM
Great win. Loved the defense. We seemed to know what to do and how to do it when dealing with screens.

Forgive me this observation, but 4 of our 6 ACC wins are against Wake and Pitt...the bottom 2 ACC teams with a combined conference record of 1-14.

Hey, you play the schedule they give you and last year's was brutal. So we were due a softer schedule. But that is about as easy as it gets in conference through 8 games.

Just saying...

Bull City Proud
01-24-2018, 09:13 AM
Fifth straight game we've held an opponent under 1 point a possession and not coincidentally, fifth straight game we've beaten our kenpom projection defensively. Expect another boost in defensive rank.

Agreed, good ugly road win

Bull City Proud
01-24-2018, 09:15 AM
Great win. Loved the defense. We seemed to know what to do and how to do it when dealing with screens.

Forgive me this observation, but 4 of our 6 ACC wins are against Wake and Pitt...the bottom 2 ACC teams with a combined conference record of 1-14.

Hey, you play the schedule they give you and last year's was brutal. So we were due a softer schedule. But that is about as easy as it gets in conference through 8 games.

Just saying...

You are correct but the goal is to beat every team we play good or bad .its a W,all that matters .

DukieInBrasil
01-24-2018, 09:19 AM
Great win. Loved the defense. We seemed to know what to do and how to do it when dealing with screens.

Forgive me this observation, but 4 of our 6 ACC wins are against Wake and Pitt...the bottom 2 ACC teams with a combined conference record of 1-14.

Hey, you play the schedule they give you and last year's was brutal. So we were due a softer schedule. But that is about as easy as it gets in conference through 8 games.

Just saying...

it's a real bummer that our OOC schedule didn't wake the guys up to the point that they were prepared for the toughness BC and NCSU brought, b/c with UVA's historically good defense, it might be too late to catch up to them to win the ACC regular season. The tough part of our conf. schedule starts this weekend, and we've already got 2 losses.
The good part is that our guys certainly look a lot better on defense, and appear to have woken up on that side of the ball, while still retaining a very efficient offense. If we continue to see incremental improvements on defense while retaining our offense, we just might be able to win out, but that will still be very difficult to do.

flyingdutchdevil
01-24-2018, 09:35 AM
1) Wendell Carter is amazing. For the third straight game, Carter was the best player on the floor (okay, that first game was Trent's 30 point game, but I still think Carter was the best player). Carter took 9 shots. 9 SHOTS!!! And scored 23 points, 12 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 blocks, 1 steal. I am officially in the "Carter is fantastic" category. Also, his D was really good. I feel like every time he was out of the game, the team didn't look right.

2) For the first time all season, Grayson returned to pouty-face Grayson. He's been so under control emotionally. Yesterday, he wasn't a happy camper. I get it; it should have been called a foul. I get it; you're still in a shooting slump. But I loved his emotional steadiness thus far this year. Yesterday was not that.

3) Trent's old man game is wonderful. Trent rarely dunks (yes, he did yesterday. And explosively!). Trent looks that curl-into-paint-and-shot-mid-range. Trent rarely takes a bad 3pt shot. From a basketball perspective, he may have the most mature game of all the starters. He's really a wonderful player to watch.

4) Pick you poison, folks! I've probably said this about 3-4 Duke teams in the past in the pre-season, but it's finally true this year. Our starting 5 is so talented that, if the defense wants to collapse on certain players, our other players will take advantage. I believe this is the primary reason Carter and Trent have been so effective the last 4-5 games; opposing teams are being so aggressive towards Bagley and Allen. YOU CANNOT DOUBLE THIS TEAM!!!

5) Tricky Tre wasn't so tricky. I've been Duval's biggest advocate, but he was downright awful yesterday. 0 points, 2 assists, lackluster D... he was forcing shots at the end before Coach K correctly pulled him out. Hey, every player was bad games. Duval - shake it off and get ready for UVA!!!!!

Troublemaker
01-24-2018, 09:45 AM
Great win. Loved the defense. We seemed to know what to do and how to do it when dealing with screens.

Forgive me this observation, but 4 of our 6 ACC wins are against Wake and Pitt...the bottom 2 ACC teams with a combined conference record of 1-14.

Hey, you play the schedule they give you and last year's was brutal. So we were due a softer schedule. But that is about as easy as it gets in conference through 8 games.

Just saying...

I think we may eventually look back and be grateful for this soft 5-game stretch that included Pitt x2 and Wake x2. It allowed us to tinker around with our m2m (more icing, more ball pressure, etc) and could be looked at as a crucial development period before we tackled the tougher teams in the conference.

FerryFor50
01-24-2018, 09:47 AM
-AOC's minutes were big because he brings greater size to the zone


As I was watching AOC, I was thinking this very thing - he has great length at the top of the zone, plus he was super active. Only time I saw him make a mistake in the zone was when he collapsed off Childress (who was in the midst of a shooting streak) when the ball was passed to the middle, which resulted in another Childress 3. Other than that, really solid game defensively for AOC.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-24-2018, 09:53 AM
2) For the first time all season, Grayson returned to pouty-face Grayson. He's been so under control emotionally. Yesterday, he wasn't a happy camper. I get it; it should have been called a foul. I get it; you're still in a shooting slump. But I loved his emotional steadiness thus far this year. Yesterday was not that.


See, I saw it differently. Yes Grayson was frustrated at time, and yes, I saw the flash lf emotion. But, I also saw him gather himself after that emotion ans channel it into defensive intensity. He had at least three or four plays that went our way simply because he wanted it more and took it.

That's what I want to see. Grayson needs his intensity to be an effective player and team leader - he just has to keep it focused.

flyingdutchdevil
01-24-2018, 09:56 AM
See, I saw it differently. Yes Grayson was frustrated at time, and yes, I saw the flash lf emotion. But, I also saw him gather himself after that emotion ans channel it into defensive intensity. He had at least three or four plays that went our way simply because he wanted it more and took it.

That's what I want to see. Grayson needs his intensity to be an effective player and team leader - he just has to keep it focused.

I believe this is a fine line to walk for Grayson. If it was easy, he'd be high-intensity, high-focus, emotions under control. I too want to see that Grayson, but I'm not sure if we've ever seen that outside of the natty title game (which is too short a time period to assess).

The truth is, if I had to choose between lower-intensity but steady Grayson and high-intensity/high-emotion Grayson, I think I'd take the former. I don't think yesterday is a sign of things to come at all, but it is the first time I saw pouty-face Grayson all season. And we saw a lot of that last year.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-24-2018, 09:59 AM
I believe this is a fine line to walk for Grayson. If it was easy, he'd be high-intensity, high-focus, emotions under control. I too want to see that Grayson, but I'm not sure if we've ever seen that outside of the natty title game (which is too short a time period to assess).

The truth is, if I had to choose between lower-intensity but steady Grayson and high-intensity/high-emotion Grayson, I think I'd take the former. I don't think yesterday is a sign of things to come at all, but it is the first time I saw pouty-face Grayson all season. And we saw a lot of that last year.

I have been lulled into confidence with Allen this season because he has been so, well, chill. I don't think I can stomach going back to watching Duke games wondering of the ticking time bomb will explode.

Therefore, I will go with my theory, simply because it allows me to watch more comfortably. Though I readily acknowledge that you may be right and it is a bad omen.

uh_no
01-24-2018, 10:01 AM
The good part is that our guys certainly look a lot better on defense, and appear to have woken up on that side of the ball, while still retaining a very efficient offense. If we continue to see incremental improvements on defense while retaining our offense, we just might be able to win out, but that will still be very difficult to do.

two things, and neither particularly novel:

1) defensive rebounding. I don't buy the argument that wake's misses were "especially bad." The had a ton of second chance points, and that largely stopped us from having a great overall defensive night. The 97 is still pretty good (adjusts to <90), but it could have been even better.
2) duval. rough night. Someone suggested it was just shots not falling. K doesn't bench his starting point guard for the last 10 minutes just because shots aren't falling. We are better when trevon is playing well, but when he's not, he becomes a liability very quickly. It's all keeping his head on and playing under control, and keeping to do the things he's being coached to do even when his shots aren't falling. He's a freshman having a hell of a season, and I won't bark too much on one bad game. We need him playing great on saturday.

So still stuff to work on, still a decent ACC road win, and lets go kick some wahoo butt.

flyingdutchdevil
01-24-2018, 10:08 AM
two things, and neither particularly novel:

1) defensive rebounding. I don't buy the argument that wake's misses were "especially bad." The had a ton of second chance points, and that largely stopped us from having a great overall defensive night. The 97 is still pretty good (adjusts to <90), but it could have been even better.
2) duval. rough night. Someone suggested it was just shots not falling. K doesn't bench his starting point guard for the last 10 minutes just because shots aren't falling. We are better when trevon is playing well, but when he's not, he becomes a liability very quickly. It's all keeping his head on and playing under control, and keeping to do the things he's being coached to do even when his shots aren't falling. He's a freshman having a hell of a season, and I won't bark too much on one bad game. We need him playing great on saturday.

So still stuff to work on, still a decent ACC road win, and lets go kick some wahoo butt.

This is an argument I absolutely buy. Good Duval is much an amazing asset, especially when he attacks the paint and distributes so effectively. Bad Duval can look to seek his shot a little more than necessary, and he can spiral out of the control. Yesterday was bad Duval.

The good news is AOC looks like he's more than capable of being the first guard off the bench. With him, Duke has 3 fantastic sharp shooters.

uh_no
01-24-2018, 10:11 AM
See, I saw it differently. Yes Grayson was frustrated at time, and yes, I saw the flash lf emotion. But, I also saw him gather himself after that emotion ans channel it into defensive intensity. He had at least three or four plays that went our way simply because he wanted it more and took it.

That's what I want to see. Grayson needs his intensity to be an effective player and team leader - he just has to keep it focused.

I agree with you here. I thought Grayson had a great game. He hit some threes, had 17 points, has become a really good defender..plus contributed on the boards and had 6 assists. Some of his passes were marvelous, and the dive on the floor play was classic Grayson. I'm sure he wanted to hit more shots (who doesn't?), but I saw nothing to indicate that frustration with his shot spilled over into any other facet of his game, and certainly didn't compromise his ability to captain this team. Let's remember it was grayson who took over the point when Duval was pulled when the game got to 8 (not sure exact time, as doesn't seem lineup data is up), and Grayson Allen at the point who lead the team to stretch that lead back up to 19.

Seems to me that intensity and emotion had exactly the outcome you'd want. If I wanted to watch emotionless automata play, I'd watch electric football.

OZ
01-24-2018, 10:14 AM
1) Wendell Carter is amazing. For the third straight game, Carter was the best player on the floor (okay, that first game was Trent's 30 point game, but I still think Carter was the best player). Carter took 9 shots. 9 SHOTS!!! And scored 23 points, 12 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 blocks, 1 steal. I am officially in the "Carter is fantastic" category. Also, his D was really good. I feel like every time he was out of the game, the team didn't look right.

2) For the first time all season, Grayson returned to pouty-face Grayson. He's been so under control emotionally. Yesterday, he wasn't a happy camper. I get it; it should have been called a foul. I get it; you're still in a shooting slump. But I loved his emotional steadiness thus far this year. Yesterday was not that.

3) Trent's old man game is wonderful. Trent rarely dunks (yes, he did yesterday. And explosively!). Trent looks that curl-into-paint-and-shot-mid-range. Trent rarely takes a bad 3pt shot. From a basketball perspective, he may have the most mature game of all the starters. He's really a wonderful player to watch.

4) Pick you poison, folks! I've probably said this about 3-4 Duke teams in the past in the pre-season, but it's finally true this year. Our starting 5 is so talented that, if the defense wants to collapse on certain players, our other players will take advantage. I believe this is the primary reason Carter and Trent have been so effective the last 4-5 games; opposing teams are being so aggressive towards Bagley and Allen. YOU CANNOT DOUBLE THIS TEAM!!!

5) Tricky Tre wasn't so tricky. I've been Duval's biggest advocate, but he was downright awful yesterday. 0 points, 2 assists, lackluster D... he was forcing shots at the end before Coach K correctly pulled him out. Hey, every player was bad games. Duval - shake it off and get ready for UVA!!!!!



I guess I saw Allen through a different lens; in fact, I thought he played under control. There were a number of plays where I held my breath, but Allen either walked away or showed little if any emotion. The crowd started their usual "Allen stuff," but it kinda faded with their team.
There have been a number of comments about Allen's shooting this year. But IMO, last night was a good indicator of the season. In the first half, he was the old Grayson, sliding across the floor for loose balls, playing great defense, making great passes and looking for his shot. In the second half with Tre getting an extended rest, Allen was running the point. It was then that the shooting struggle seemed to return. He just seemed to get caught - even for an instant - between passing, driving and/or shooting. Allen seems to be an "instinct" shooter, not a thinker. In that "instant" between shooting or passing, he seems to get out of sync. Overall, I thought he had a great game. I just didn't see the "pouty face."
As to Tre... did the TV folks say anything about his health? I noticed a couple of times when he went to the bench, the trainer would come over and kneel in front of him.

rsvman
01-24-2018, 10:24 AM
Any road win is a good road win.

Our man-to-man defense is improving, not just from reps but from tweaks that the coaching staff has made. Specifically, the way we are handling the pick-and-roll has been changed pretty drastically from the hard hedge we were doing earlier in the year to an icing/dropback style that we are now employing. Rotations behind it are improving a great deal, too, likely from repetition in practice.

Wake, in my opinion, made a big mistake by running the initial pick-and-roll WAY too high, usually 5-7 feet beyond the 3-point line. That played into our hands, allowing plenty of time for the dropback to work and not penalizing the icing at all, as there was no real threat of scoring from where the pick occurred. Teams that run the pick-and-roll in a tighter position will challenge this defense more, I think.

All-in-all, though, the m2m is vastly improved.

I was happy to see Grayson make some "Grayson shots." The one where he came off a screen at the top of the key and fired almost immediately is the kind of shot he used to make with regularity but has not even been attempting lately. I was psyched to see that one find the bottom of the net.


UVa will provide a whole new level of challenge, although I think the main problem people have is scoring on them, and with Carter and Bagley roaming the hardwood, we should be able to score better than most teams do. They may be able to keep our score down into the 70s but I doubt the 60s, which means they will have to score more than they usually do. I think we will win by 4-10 points.

azzefkram
01-24-2018, 10:49 AM
Nice to see an active and for the most part effective m2m. Duke had a few too many breakdowns late in the shot clock which dinged their overall effectiveness. I was a bit surprised that we didn't rebound better. Marvin and Wendell did their usual great work but 1 defensive rebound from the backcourt players is less than ideal. The defense looks to be moving in the correct direction.

Tough game for Trevon. He had more than a few shots rattle out which seemed to lead to him pressing just a bit. Coach K sat him and I thought it was great to see that he was engaged and upbeat on the bench. I don't know if I'm reading too much into this but it appears that Marvin is bothered by excessive physicality. In Marvin's case, bothered takes him to awesome from otherworldly so in the big scheme of things this isn't much of an issue. Wendell, Gary and Alex keep getting better. Gary's hands are so quick. He may have only had one steal but he seemed to have a bunch of deflections and poke aways.

Things get much tougher from here but the team is trending in the right direction. Let's go beat UVA.

Dukehky
01-24-2018, 11:06 AM
I know that Tre had a nightmare game on offense, but he was absolutely spectacular on the defensive end tonight. He makes our man to man, not just work, but he makes it have the potential to be great.

I thought that little ankle tweak threw him off. He was still getting by guys, but he wasn't finishing well.

If he's right against UVA, I think we'll win.

Solid game. No complaints. Pleased with the defense, just gotta work on finishing the possession with a defensive rebound. maybe they were so used to people scoring that they haven't focused on that aspect? Kidding.

Saratoga2
01-24-2018, 01:05 PM
3) Trent's old man game is wonderful. Trent rarely dunks (yes, he did yesterday. And explosively!). Trent looks that curl-into-paint-and-shot-mid-range. Trent rarely takes a bad 3pt shot. From a basketball perspective, he may have the most mature game of all the starters. He's really a wonderful player to watch.



Trent's game seems to be way better than his experience level would suggest it should be. On offense he picks his spots and is a very efficient scorer. On defense he is very disruptive. On this team it is unfair to try to pick our most important player. Better to say that several of them have star quality and Gary Trent is one of those.

English
01-24-2018, 02:54 PM
I have been lulled into confidence with Allen this season because he has been so, well, chill. I don't think I can stomach going back to watching Duke games wondering of the ticking time bomb will explode.

Therefore, I will go with my theory, simply because it allows me to watch more comfortably. Though I readily acknowledge that you may be right and it is a bad omen.

It’s also worth noting that when Marvin got in a brief dust-up with Saar, it was Grayson who immediately went to calm him down.

Magnifying every emotional response Grayson has in a season is completely unfair to him, and frankly, what we’ve gotten so heated about from ESPN. Just because he reacts to a call, non-call, or hard foul, doesn’t mean he’s going to fly off the rails.

ETA: I agree with Mtn.Devil here, disagree with the entire premise of FDD’s observation.

elvis14
01-24-2018, 02:58 PM
It’s also worth noting that when Marvin got in a brief dust-up with Saar, it was Grayson who immediately went to calm him down.

Magnifying every emotional response Grayson has in a season is completely unfair to him, and frankly, what we’ve gotten so heated about from ESPN. Just because he reacts to a call, non-call, or hard foul, doesn’t mean he’s going to fly off the rails.

ETA: I agree with Mtn.Devil here, disagree with the entire premise of FDD’s observation.

For me, I want Grayson to play with the fire that drove him to greatness in the past. I believe that he's grown enough as a person to handle cutting it loose a little more than he has been. Of course, I also think that the overreaction to the 3 'incidents', especially the first two, were a much more egregious offense than the incidents themselves.

jimsumner
01-24-2018, 03:24 PM
I was sitting pretty close to the Duke basket when Allen was fouled really hard against Pitt. Dangerous play, could have resulted in a serious injury, called a Flagrant-1.

Allen jumped off the floor like he was ready to dismember someone. But the moment passed, it passed quickly. Almost any competitive athlete would have come up hot and ready to rumble, Not all would have dialed it back down so quickly.

So, yes, he has matured, knows what's at stake and understands that everyone Duke plays will try to get under his skin and make him do something stupid. I think he'll resist the temptation.

flyingdutchdevil
01-24-2018, 03:30 PM
Nice article on Grayson Allen this season and how he's not in the spotlight: https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/grayson-allen-isnt-kicking-or-screaming-now-hes-just-the-solid-senior-duke-needs/

I enjoyed it and agree with it. Those who think Allen didn't do anything wrong will probably not like the tone of the article. IMO, Norlander is very fair about Grayson. And he's grateful that the media doesn't have a "Grayson Watch".

cato
01-24-2018, 05:51 PM
2) duval. rough night. Someone suggested it was just shots not falling. K doesn't bench his starting point guard for the last 10 minutes just because shots aren't falling.

I went back and watched the four minutes where K subbed out Trevon.

First, I’m annoyed at the camera work, because when AOC checks in from the scorer’s table, Trevon goes straight to a coach at the bench. I assume it was K. I assume K had a message for him. But the camera zoomed in on players milling around on the court, so we couldn’t watch the interaction.

Second, my guess is K subbed Trevon out for D, not for O. His last field goal attempt was a good shot. He missed it. Again. Shoulder slump, frustration, whatever, he didn’t race back down court. The next deadball, he was headed to the conversation we did not get to see.

Third, the D was no better with AOC in the first few minutes after Trevon came out.

Anyway. Trevon playing well means a lot to this team. My guess is he won’t get so down next time his shots are not falling but that he is going to work very hard on D.

jimsumner
01-24-2018, 06:07 PM
I remember a post-game presser a few years ago.

I believe K was talking about Sulaimon but it could have been someone else.

Anyway. "Too often a freshman thinks a missed shot is a mistake. It's not. It's just a missed shot."

In other words, young players let a missed shot or two negatively impact the rest of their game.

I believe that may have happened with Duval last night.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-24-2018, 06:19 PM
Nice article on Grayson Allen this season and how he's not in the spotlight: https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/grayson-allen-isnt-kicking-or-screaming-now-hes-just-the-solid-senior-duke-needs/

I enjoyed it and agree with it. Those who think Allen didn't do anything wrong will probably not like the tone of the article. IMO, Norlander is very fair about Grayson. And he's grateful that the media doesn't have a "Grayson Watch".

Thanks for the link. I suspect there are many in sports media who are disappointed Grayson has kept his cool


I just hope Allen remembers at all times, it will just take one firey moment to bring all of it back.