This Week in the ACC: 1/22-1/28

[pfrduke]

7 teams are .500 or above, and 6 of them look like tournament shoo-ins (sorry Georgia Tech). Another 6 teams are either 3-4 or 2-4, and I think all of them believe that they can be tournament teams if things break right. Things have to break more right for some (NCSU, BC, Syracuse, VT) than others (FSU, Notre Dame).

Monday
[54]Virginia Tech (2-4) (+5) hosts [8]North Carolina (5-2) (7:00, ESPN)

Tuesday
[3]Virginia (7-0) (-8) hosts [13]Clemson (5-2) (7:00, ACCNE)
[92]Wake Forest (1-6) (+11) hosts [4]Duke (5-2) (9:00, ACCNE)

Wednesday
[24]Florida State (3-4) (-13) hosts [111]Georgia Tech (3-3) (7:00, ACCNE)
[49]Syracuse (2-4) (-6) hosts [75]Boston College (3-4) (7:00, ESPNU)
[28]Miami (3-3) (-5) hosts [34]Louisville (5-1) (8:00, ESPN2)
[214]Pittsburgh (0-7) (+8) hosts [68]NC State (3-4) (9:00, ACCNE)

Thursday and Friday are dark

Saturday
[8]North Carolina (5-2) (-14) hosts [68]NC State(3-4) (12:00, CBS)
[4]Duke (5-2) (-2) hosts [3]Virginia (7-0) (2:00, CBS)
[24]Florida State (3-4) (-4) hosts [28]Miami (3-3) (4:00, ACCNE)
[214]Pittsburgh (0-7) (+8) hosts [49]Syracuse (2-4) (4:00, ACCNE)
[31]Notre Dame (3-4) (-6) hosts [54]Virginia Tech (2-4) (8:00, ESPN2)
[34]Louisville (5-1) (-9) hosts [92]Wake Forest (1-6) (8:00, ACCNE)

Sunday
[111]Georgia Tech (3-3) (+7) hosts [13]Clemson (5-2) (6:00, ESPNU)

ACC Non-Conference Record: 151-38
ACC v. Power 6: 29-21

[DukieInBrasil]

Mos def pulling for VT to be stout at home and deflate the Tar Holes tonight, not just for the sheer joy of (U)NCheat losing, but also because it would help Duke's cause in the standings. Of course, Duke has to do its part and win its games, but 3rd place in conference is better when not shared. If Duke can win both its games this week, it will help inch us to the top of the standings, but we done shot ourselves in the foot 2 times already so it may be impossible to claim the top spot if UVA doesn't lose again.

[ncexnyc]

It will definitely be interesting to see how Va. Tech and the Cheats handle the quick turnaround. Hopefully Buzz can find a way to keep Blackshear in the game.

[CDu]

Mos def pulling for VT to be stout at home and deflate the Tar Heels tonight, not just for the sheer joy of (U)NCheat losing, but also because it would help Duke's cause in the standings. Of course, Duke has to do its part and win its games, but 3rd place in conference is better when not shared. If Duke can win both its games this week, it will help inch us to the top of the standings, but we done shot ourselves in the foot 2 times already so it may be impossible to claim the top spot if UVA doesn't lose again.

Not “may be”. IS impossible unless UVa loses again. We only play them once, and they are up two in the loss column.

If we go undefeated the rest of the way, we will still need UVa to lose one additional game in order to share the regular season title and claim the #1 seed in the ACC tourney.

[JasonEvans]

I'd be interested in hearing from our Virginia fan guests around here regarding how they feel about this year's team. Will this finally be the Virginia team that can really make waves on the national scene in March? Do they have the offensive chops to win in the tourney I mean, look at the past 4 years since Virginia really rose in the rankings... the season did not end with the team performing as expected (and they generally cannot even get to 60 points in these tourney losses):


2014 - #1 seed in East, loss in Sw 16 to #4 Mich St – scored 59 points
2015 - #2 in East, loss in R32 to #7 Mich St – scored 54 points
2016 - #1 seed in MW, lost in E8 to #10 Syracuse – scored 62 points
2017 - #5 seed in East, loss in R32 to #4 Florida – scored 39 points

-Jason "I know the D is amazing... but is that enough come March?" Evans

[DukieInBrasil]

Not “may be”. IS impossible unless UVa loses again. We only play them once, and they are up two in the loss column.

If we go undefeated the rest of the way, we will still need UVa to lose one additional game in order to share the regular season title and claim the #1 seed in the ACC tourney.

yup, i meant to say "unless UVA loses again". brain fart.

[ndkjr70]

I'd be interested in hearing from our Virginia fan guests around here regarding how they feel about this year's team. Will this finally be the Virginia team that can really make waves on the national scene in March? Do they have the offensive chops to win in the tourney I mean, look at the past 4 years since Virginia really rose in the rankings... the season did not end with the team performing as expected (and they generally cannot even get to 60 points in these tourney losses):


2014 - #1 seed in East, loss in Sw 16 to #4 Mich St – scored 59 points
2015 - #2 in East, loss in R32 to #7 Mich St – scored 54 points
2016 - #1 seed in MW, lost in E8 to #10 Syracuse – scored 62 points
2017 - #5 seed in East, loss in R32 to #4 Florida – scored 39 points

-Jason "I know the D is amazing... but is that enough come March?" Evans

Man, if I'm a UVA fan I cry myself to sleep at least biannually about that 2014 team. May be the greatest UVA team of all time; 30 wins, ACC champs, 3 (!!) players drafted in the top 36 picks. If that team can't win a title, I can't see this team winning a title.

Then again, absolutely anything can happen in march. As Duke found out the hard way, that season.

[Troublemaker]

I'd be interested in hearing from our Virginia fan guests around here regarding how they feel about this year's team. Will this finally be the Virginia team that can really make waves on the national scene in March? Do they have the offensive chops to win in the tourney I mean, look at the past 4 years since Virginia really rose in the rankings... the season did not end with the team performing as expected (and they generally cannot even get to 60 points in these tourney losses):

2014 - #1 seed in East, loss in Sw 16 to #4 Mich St – scored 59 points
2015 - #2 in East, loss in R32 to #7 Mich St – scored 54 points
2016 - #1 seed in MW, lost in E8 to #10 Syracuse – scored 62 points
2017 - #5 seed in East, loss in R32 to #4 Florida – scored 39 points

-Jason "I know the D is amazing... but is that enough come March?" Evans

I don't think there's enough evidence there to say UVA has a problem in March. Notably, the 2016 team had a 15 point lead with 9 minutes remaining in their Elite 8 game against Syracuse before collapsing. I would argue that if you can put yourself in that position, you can certainly make a Final Four, and it probably took a little bit of bad luck (along with poor play) not to. Their two losses to Michigan St were really competitive games that could've gone either way. Only their blowout loss to Florida last season really sticks out to me as underperforming.

[Troublemaker]

Man, if I'm a UVA fan I cry myself to sleep at least biannually about that 2014 team. May be the greatest UVA team of all time; 30 wins, ACC champs, 3 (!!) players drafted in the top 36 picks. If that team can't win a title, I can't see this team winning a title.

Then again, absolutely anything can happen in march. As Duke found out the hard way, that season.

Their 2015 team was even better, imo, but the Justin Anderson injury and then return from injury probably threw off that team's timing a bit at the end of the season.

[DarkstarWahoo]

I don't think there's enough evidence there to say UVA has a problem in March. Notably, the 2016 team had a 15 point lead with 9 minutes remaining in their Elite 8 game against Syracuse before collapsing. I would argue that if you can put yourself in that position, you can certainly make a Final Four, and it probably took a little bit of bad luck (along with poor play) not to. Their two losses to Michigan St were really competitive games that could've gone either way. Only their blowout loss to Florida last season really sticks out to me as underperforming.

I don't think they really underperformed against Florida or at the end of the year. That team was thrown into turmoil when Austin Nichols got booted - he was the post player in the program by a wide margin - and the frontcourt was further decimated late in the year when Isaiah Wilkins' sickle cell trait flared up. We're seeing now just how important Wilkins is to the program. And even with Wilkins, the inside players all fell into three buckets:

- Offensively challenged (all of them)
- Inexperienced and foul-prone (Salt, Diakite)
- Jarred Reuter (Jarred Reuter)

Perrantes was miscast as an alpha dog - Nichols was supposed to be that. Kyle Guy was a 160-pound freshman twig with a man bun, and Ty Jerome was a freshman who missed the entire preseason. They were a 5 seed who went out when a 5 seed is supposed to go out. It sucked, but we just weren't that good. (Although I admit my mind wanders these days as to why Tony didn't take the redshirt off of DeAndre Hunter after Nichols was dismissed.)

I very much agree with your later post. 2015 was the "What if?" year. If Justin Anderson's hand and appendix hadn't gone kablooey...

[Troublemaker]

I don't think they really underperformed against Florida or at the end of the year. That team was thrown into turmoil when Austin Nichols got booted - he was the post player in the program by a wide margin - and the frontcourt was further decimated late in the year when Isaiah Wilkins' sickle cell trait flared up. We're seeing now just how important Wilkins is to the program. And even with Wilkins, the inside players all fell into three buckets:

- Offensively challenged (all of them)
- Inexperienced and foul-prone (Salt, Diakite)
- Jarred Reuter (Jarred Reuter)

Perrantes was miscast as an alpha dog - Nichols was supposed to be that. Kyle Guy was a 160-pound freshman twig with a man bun, and Ty Jerome was a freshman who missed the entire preseason. They were a 5 seed who went out when a 5 seed is supposed to go out. It sucked, but we just weren't that good. (Although I admit my mind wanders these days as to why Tony didn't take the redshirt off of DeAndre Hunter after Nichols was dismissed.)

I very much agree with your later post. 2015 was the "What if?" year. If Justin Anderson's hand and appendix hadn't gone kablooey...

Actually, it sounds like you agree with my first post, too, except for the last sentence saying last year's team underperformed. But, I must insist that when a team loses by 26 points, it probably underperformed in that game. The context of discussion is UVA's NCAA performance, and that performance was very bad.

But my larger point stands. I don't think there's enough evidence there to say that UVA overall has an NCAAT problem.

[MChambers]

Actually, it sounds like you agree with my first post, too, except for the last sentence saying last year's team underperformed. But, I must insist that when a team loses by 26 points, it probably underperformed in that game. The context of discussion is UVA's NCAA performance, and that performance was very bad.

But my larger point stands. I don't think there's enough evidence there to say that UVA overall has an NCAAT problem.

How about an MSU problem?

[WVDUKEFAN]

I'm enjoying the Virginia Tech beat down of UNC. Beautiful.

And Bilas just said UVA will win the ACC regular season.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Another soccer flop from the cheats.

[devildeac]

Another soccer flop from the cheats.

Couldn't be. They don't do that :rolleyes::mad:.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Mmm, mmm. That dessert was delicious!

[curtis325]

Another soccer flop from the cheats.

Pinson flop fail.

Maybe the refs will get wise to Pinson's act.

[devildeac]

Pinson flop fail.

Maybe the refs will get wise to Pinson's act.

Not while they're on swofford's payroll. Right, PackMan97? :rolleyes::mad:

[downeastdad]

Holes got whipped up on in Blacksburg

[dukelifer]

Holes got whipped up on in Blacksburg

Yes - but I am not saying anything as Duke has struggled on the road against good teams.

[devildeac]

Question for Bob Green:

Will tonight's result be enough reason for them to get a newspaper in Blacksburg now?

;):rolleyes:

[richardjackson199]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BDBzgHXf64

Let em roll

[MChambers]

I’d like to suggest that the loss is not deserving of a separate thread. Keep it in the ACC thread instead.

[Troublemaker]

Yes - but I am not saying anything as Duke has struggled on the road against good teams.

Well, we've actually lost on the road to bad teams (or at least teams that will likely be sub-.500 in conference), BUT I will still celebrate a UNC loss. I don't get your way of thinking, frankly :-)

[Ultrarunner]

Yes - but I am not saying anything as Duke has struggled on the road against good teams.

Exactly. We lost to BC. I think I'll mind my manners until March.

Which does not mean I do not and will not enjoy every downturn that meet the pale blue cheaters. I expect, hope, pray, for more beat-downs a la MSU.

[duke2x]

So far I'm feeling pretty good about my predictions. 3 down, 5 more to go for UNC: Duke, @Duke, Miami, @Syracuse, @Louisville. I'm not brave enough to predict ND and Clemson can come back from those injuries. I know better than to predict NCSU beating UNC.

UVA is very good but has been the slight beneficiary of a favorable schedule early. They still have @Duke, @Syracuse, @FSU, @Miami, @Louisville to go. I also readily concede that Saturday is a must-win to get the #1 seed and Duke may have come close to running the table to get it.

[moonpie23]

cheaters looked good.....

[duke2x]

Not while they're on swofford's payroll. Right, PackMan97? :rolleyes::mad:

Those were not core ACC officials. 2/3 worked the Miami game last week, and Shows works the SEC mostly.

[MrPoon]

Wasn’t Pinson a decent player? I haven’t watch a lot this year but his box scores have not been good and they need him. Felton was also supposed to be an important recruit I thought, not so important this year.

[devildeac]

Those were not core ACC officials. 2/3 worked the Miami game last week, and Shows works the SEC mostly.

Well, that might explain how/why "u"nc only shot 5 FT and VT attempted 12 :o:rolleyes:.

[left_hook_lacey]

19-11

[53n206]

It seems to me that "Ole" Roy is looking a lot older. Wonder how long before he retires to the beach and plays golf. Does he go to Bald Head Island or to Carolina Beach?

[Wheat/"/"/"]

That was an inspired effort from VT and a pretty weak one from UNC. UNC can't expect to win on the road in an atmosphere like that playing that poorly.

UNC has not played well for the past few games. They've looked slow, measured, not playing with intensity or confidence. They are the team reacting, not pressing the other team.
Some of it has come down to effort, some of it is they are just not, overall, a quick, athletic team.

The lack of post offense is glaring. Really poor spacing tonight, and they had few quality post entry passes.
VT packed it in defensively making it even tougher, because they don't have to respect Pinson or Brooks to shoot from the foul line extended. They made sure to keep a defender up on Johnson and Williams, and they shot poorly as a result. The packed post kept Pinson from driving effectively too.

All in all I thought it was UNC's second worst effort of the season after that Wofford game.

It's concerning too the attitude that the camera picked up of Felton not acknowledging Berry's reached out hand as he came out of the game. That's unacceptable, and you can bet that will be addressed.

Roy has some work to do with this team.

[dukelifer]

Well, we've actually lost on the road to bad teams (or at least teams that will likely be sub-.500 in conference), BUT I will still celebrate a UNC loss. I don't get your way of thinking, frankly :-)

I enjoy the loss- but I know Duke has work to do. I celebrate when Duke beats UNC, when UNC loses in the ACC tournament and when UNC loses in the big dance- particularly the last one as they are almost always a threat to win it- or at least I am convinced they are- until they are out-. The last two years have been brutal in that regard.

[MrPoon]

That was an inspired effort from VT and a pretty weak one from UNC. UNC can't expect to win on the road in an atmosphere like that playing that poorly.

UNC has not played well for the past few games. They've looked slow, measured, not playing with intensity or confidence. They are the team reacting, not pressing the other team.
Some of it has come down to effort, some of it is they are just not, overall, a quick, athletic team.

The lack of post offense is glaring. Really poor spacing tonight, and they had few quality post entry passes.
VT packed it in defensively making it even tougher, because they don't have to respect Pinson or Brooks to shoot from the foul line extended. They made sure to keep a defender up on Johnson and Williams, and they shot poorly as a result. The packed post kept Pinson from driving effectively too.

All in all I thought it was UNC's second worst effort of the season after that Wofford game.

It's concerning too the attitude that the camera picked up of Felton not acknowledging Berry's reached out hand as he came out of the game. That's unacceptable, and you can bet that will be addressed.

Roy has some work to do with this team.

Thanks for the appraisal. I missed the game. The few games I’ve been able to catch, its a team that the pieces don’t seem to consistently mesh. For opponents it appears best to “let” Berry get his points as long as he isn’t setting up others becuase the team gets stuck without his playmaking. Maye plays well at times but (and I could be wrong with such a small viewing sample) he does well when there is a mismatch but not well when he plays against a strong player. I thought Pinson would be a much more important player for this year’s team and so far he hasn’t.

But Duke can vouch for VT as a dangous road game.

[duke4ever19]

UNC has not played well for the past few games. They've looked slow, measured, not playing with intensity or confidence. They are the team reacting, not pressing the other team.
Some of it has come down to effort, some of it is they are just not, overall, a quick, athletic team.


Doug Gottlieb would call them "alarmingly un-athletic."

2010 Duke was alarmingly un-athletic, but we had a secret weapon in the magic of Zoubeard. Unfortunately for you, Zoubeard has exhausted his NCAA eligibility, so you're out of luck.

[ipatent]

All in all I thought it was UNC's second worst effort of the season after that Wofford game.

The Michigan State game was a low point as well.

[duketaylor]

I was only able to watch the 2nd half of unc/VT. This unc squad is underwhelming. Didn't play with much fire/emotion and settled (to me) for too many 3 looks while the game was still within reach. This is VT's first "good" win. Helps the resume, but still work to do.

WVU currently down a little at TCU just at the half.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

The Michigan State game was a low point as well.

MSU played at a very high level that game, I'll give them the most credit. I thought UNC looked OK defensively, but weak offensively in that one, mainly due to MSU's suffocating defense.

Luke Maye is playing very well. All ACC well. He's just not getting any help. I think Roy is going to have to play Manley more with Maye. He only got 8 minutes tonight because VT was so much quicker.

For a team that has such good shooters, UNC is not shooting it well, lately.

Brandon Robinson has shown the most quickness and effort and is earning more time. If Johnson can't bring more to the table, Robinson is going to get more of his minutes.

[duketaylor]

MSU played at a very high level that game, I'll give them the most credit. I thought UNC looked OK defensively, but weak offensively in that one, mainly due to MSU's suffocating defense.

Luke Maye is playing very well. All ACC well. He's just not getting any help. I think Roy is going to have to play Manley more with Maye. He only got 8 minutes tonight because VT was so much quicker.

For a team that has such good shooters, UNC is not shooting it well, lately.

Brandon Robinson has shown the most quickness and effort and is earning more time. If Johnson can't bring more to the table, Robinson is going to get more of his minutes.

I was going to question whether your shooters were that good, but at about 39% from three is very good. Only VT, ND and UVA shoot it better in the conference.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I was going to question whether your shooters were that good, but at about 39% from three is very good. Only VT, ND and UVA shoot it better in the conference.

They, (Williams,Johnson, Maye, Berry), are excellent at spot up, catch and shoot shots, less so off the dribble.

To get those shots they are good at, they have to move well without the ball, screen and cut hard. Something they have not been doing very well lately. I think mainly because there's a lack of penetration off the dribble and it has frustrated them....they end up passing it around with no probing dribble drives in the creases to pressure the D.

That's where the lack of aggressiveness with the ball is showing up the most. They end up trying to be "surgical"/"controlled" with the attack and a motivated defense like VT had tonight was having none of that. They wouldn't let UNC pick them apart, they pressured the ball well.

[jhmoss1812]

I'd be interested in hearing from our Virginia fan guests around here regarding how they feel about this year's team. Will this finally be the Virginia team that can really make waves on the national scene in March? Do they have the offensive chops to win in the tourney I mean, look at the past 4 years since Virginia really rose in the rankings... the season did not end with the team performing as expected (and they generally cannot even get to 60 points in these tourney losses):


2014 - #1 seed in East, loss in Sw 16 to #4 Mich St – scored 59 points
2015 - #2 in East, loss in R32 to #7 Mich St – scored 54 points
2016 - #1 seed in MW, lost in E8 to #10 Syracuse – scored 62 points
2017 - #5 seed in East, loss in R32 to #4 Florida – scored 39 points

-Jason "I know the D is amazing... but is that enough come March?" Evans

2014 - MSU was criminally under seeded and UVA lost by 2 points. Gill's ankle injury in second half was untimely.
2015 - MSU was probably under seeded again and UVA never recovered to Justin Anderson injury.
2016 - FML - choke job of epic proportions - this is the one that bothers me the most to this day. I think about it way more than I probably should. I have no explanation for it.
2017 - Beatdown in every sense of the word. It's not that we lost to UF in R32. It's how badly we lost. Pretty average UVA team though. Nichols suspension threw team off.

I think UVA has underperformed in NCAAs but it's not as bad as the media makes it sound. And I don't think it's a systemic issue more than some bad luck and matchups. I think it's a fair criticism of Bennett and our system but I think if you keep getting top seeds in the NCAAs, you'll break through eventually. We haven't lost in the first round of the tourney since 2012 when we were a 10-seed and got blitzed by Florida. Bennett has only lost to 3 teams in NCAAs at UVA - MSU X2 (Izzo), Florida X2 (Donovan/White), and Cuse X1 (Boeheim). These teams are not necessarily the best matchups for UVA and are mostly led by HOF coaches.

I do think that it's easier for teams to ramp up their defensive effort in NCAAs than it is for teams to ramp up their offensive effort. This eliminates our advantage that we seem to have in the regular season. I think we have a good shot to go far this year but there's no doubt we have offensive deficiencies that could plague us in a single-elimination tournament. We lack interior scoring and that puts a lot of pressure on our guards to hit jump shots, even if our offensive sets do a nice job of creating open looks. The development of DeAndre Hunter raises our ceiling but I still have concerns about our offense. Our defense is elite though and that will keep us in the majority of the games we play. We are definitely good enough to win 6 straight games against good teams. Doesn't mean we will though. You have to keep in mind that we were unranked to start the season. We are definitely overachieving at this point. Whether fair or not, UVA will only be judged by how we perform in the NCAA tournament. And we will continue to hear the narrative that our system doesn't work in March until we break through to a Final Four.

[duke2x]

I think UVA has underperformed in NCAAs but it's not as bad as the media makes it sound. And I don't think it's a systemic issue more than some bad luck and matchups.

Excellent post but too long to quote in full. :)

Using some examples that should have some respect on this board,

Coach K did not win a title until his 5th Final 4 and the program's 9th.
Coach G did not win a title in 4 Final 4s (this is not a veiled attempt to argue about the WBB program).
Coach Danowski did not win a title until his 4th Final 4 and the program's 6th (again, not a lax hijack).

I remember Coach K's 2010 press conference as I was leaving JPJ. K said that UVA has the right guy coaching the program, and I defer to his compliment. It takes a long time to get the talent and coaching experience in place. I think the hardest problem Bennett has yet to overcome is negative recruiting even though he has put a few guys in the NBA. More NBA games play 148-124 instead of 78-65.

[Spanarkel]

Those were not core ACC officials. 2/3 worked the Miami game last week, and Shows works the SEC mostly.

Good point! I checked unc's ACC games to date and only TV Teddy has worked more than one game(2) involving the cheaters this season. Is there still a "core group of ACC officials" with the new ACC officiating alliance with now 7 other conferences?

http://www.bigeast.com/news/2017/7/27/mens-basketball-four-conferences-join-big-east-acc-basketball-officiating-alliance.aspx

[DarkstarWahoo]

Actually, it sounds like you agree with my first post, too, except for the last sentence saying last year's team underperformed. But, I must insist that when a team loses by 26 points, it probably underperformed in that game. The context of discussion is UVA's NCAA performance, and that performance was very bad.

But my larger point stands. I don't think there's enough evidence there to say that UVA overall has an NCAAT problem.

Upon reading your first post again, you are correct. I focused too much on a small part of it.

Hope you enjoyed the events at Cassell last night. My preferred outcome (precisely targeted IBCM strike) didn't come to pass, but given the look of the ACC standings and the Hokies' usual mediocrity, I'll take what we got.

[DukieInBrasil]

Dante Grantham is out (for the season?) for the Tigrillos over yonder in Clemson. Usually, this would signal the end for Clemson, but i'm wondering if that age-old phenomenon happens when a team loses their best (or one of the best) players and miraculously ends up winning a game or two immediately after that they have no business winning. Clemson, even at 100%, has no business beating UVA in C'ville. Sounds like a perfect set-up for an enormous (and beneficial for Duke) upset.

[left_hook_lacey]

I miscounted on my preseason prediction of 19-11 for UNC. They play 31 regular season games, so they can't go 19-11. I'll give them 20-11, and I'm not 100% convinced they'll get to 20 wins, but I'm going conservative.

This is a very one dimensional team. Two things Roy loves to do, work inside out, and push the ball on every possession. UNC doesn't have the personnel to do either of those things. So they basically try to work it inside through the high post then get back door cuts and lay ups. It's worked a little against poorly coached teams, but the teams that are well coached and/or have bigger stronger faster players shut it down. This leaves UNC with Berry, Williams, Johnson or even sometimes Pinson(yeesh) chucking up a 3 with the shot-clock winding down. That has to drive Roy crazy.

I think they have 4 definite losses left on the schedule, with several others being a coin flip. They are at 16-5 right now, another loss, and they're out of the top 25. The signs have been there all season and pre-season that this would be a disastrous season for UNC(by blue blood standards). The loss to Wofford at home, struggling against Barton in the pre-season, struggling to beat Davidson by 10, needing a last second floater from Berry to beat Wake at home.

Last night, the body language looked terrible by the players and even Roy himself. Get your pop corn folks, we will have two epic beat downs of UNC this year, and they will lose a few more they're not supposed to lose. I think I'm being generous with 20-11. I've being saying it all season and I think it's starting to unfold, there will be an epic meltdown by this team this year. This will bring out fan ugliness, and some Haiti-like comments from Roy. Assuming he hasn't lost interest and is looking to next year. Oh. Wait, we got Cam, Barrett, and Zion. He has nothing to look forward to next year. :cool:

[duke2x]

Good point! I checked unc's ACC games to date and only TV Teddy has worked more than one game(2) involving the cheaters this season. Is there still a "core group of ACC officials" with the new ACC officiating alliance with now 7 other conferences?

http://www.bigeast.com/news/2017/7/27/mens-basketball-four-conferences-join-big-east-acc-basketball-officiating-alliance.aspx

The ones that work 2-3 ACC assignments/week on average are Ayers, Eades, Dorsey, Jones, Luckie, Nestor, and Valentine. You'll usually get two of those for any big ACC game. There are probably 20-30 more that work 0-2 games/week as younger officials or top officials from other conferences that have the day off, the latter being the crew last night.

It was much easier to keep track of them when I was a student. The 9 team ACC rotated 90% of the slots between the same 9-10.

[DukieInBrasil]

I miscounted on my preseason prediction of 19-11 for UNC. They play 31 regular season games, so they can't go 19-11. I'll give them 20-11, and I'm not 100% convinced they'll get to 20 wins, but I'm going conservative.

This is a very one dimensional team. Two things Roy loves to do, work inside out, and push the ball on every possession. UNC doesn't have the personnel to do either of those things. So they basically try to work it inside through the high post then get back door cuts and lay ups. It's worked a little against poorly coached teams, but the teams that are well coached and/or have bigger stronger faster players shut it down. This leaves UNC with Berry, Williams, Johnson or even sometimes Pinson(yeesh) chucking up a 3 with the shot-clock winding down. That has to drive Roy crazy.

I think they have 4 definite losses left on the schedule, with several others being a coin flip. They are at 16-5 right now, another loss, and they're out of the top 25. The signs have been there all season and pre-season that this would be a disastrous season for UNC(by blue blood standards). The loss to Wofford at home, struggling against Barton in the pre-season, struggling to beat Davidson by 10, needing a last second floater from Berry to beat Wake at home.

Last night, the body language looked terrible by the players and even Roy himself. Get your pop corn folks, we will have two epic beat downs of UNC this year, and they will lose a few more they're not supposed to lose. I think I'm being generous with 20-11. I've being saying it all season and I think it's starting to unfold, there will be an epic meltdown by this team this year. This will bring out fan ugliness, and some Haiti-like comments from Roy. Assuming he hasn't lost interest and is looking to next year. Oh. Wait, we got Cam, Barrett, and Zion. He has nothing to look forward to next year. :cool:

Although i share your optimism, i don't think UNC losing to the dead-last place team in NCAA D1 would cause them to drop out of the top 25. They lost to a VT team at VT that has been ranked this year and is a high-quality team. Hell, knowing the voters they might even move up b/c of that loss (assuming a win in the next game). Just kidding, sort of, almost. Looking at their schedule, i see them having the potential to win 20 games. I didn't watch the game and don't know about the body language you saw, but UNC has a way of disappointing me nearly every year by winning any games at all. NCSU at the Dump, vs Pitt, vs ND, vs Miami are all games that this UNC can definitely win, although if they fall apart like you predict, then maybe they'll only get 1 or 2 of those. If they do hold it together, they could conceivably win @NCSU and @Syracuse as well. That would suck.
If Duke can do what it should, including 2 wins over the cheaters, then Duke will finish above UNC in the ACC standings, although outright winning the ACC will depend on some luck for us, as somebody else has to beat UVA. Duke could win out, and i hope that happens, but there are at least 3 games on the schedule that could be very challenging: UVA, @UNC and @VT. Clemson is without Grantham, so maybe that one isn't as challenging as i thought, but could still be problematic. If Duke plays up to its potential it should win out, but that's never guaranteed.

[DarkstarWahoo]

UVA is very good but has been the slight beneficiary of a favorable schedule early. They still have @Duke, @Syracuse, @FSU, @Miami, @Louisville to go. I also readily concede that Saturday is a must-win to get the #1 seed and Duke may have come close to running the table to get it.

Funny that you mention that, because based on the admittedly simplistic metric of conference winning percentage, the biggest discrepancy in difficulty between games played and games remaining belongs to...the Duke Blue Devils. Of course, that has a whole, whole lot to do with you guys already having played godawful Pitt twice, but by my count, you still have nine games left against what I would deem the ACC's decent-and-up teams (UNC, @UNC, VT, @VT, Notre Dame, Louisville, @Clemson, Cuse, UVA).

http://www.playoffstatus.com/accbasketball/accsosag.html

[OldPhiKap]

Funny that you mention that, because based on the admittedly simplistic metric of conference winning percentage, the biggest discrepancy in difficulty between games played and games remaining belongs to...the Duke Blue Devils. Of course, that has a whole, whole lot to do with you guys already having played godawful Pitt twice, but by my count, you still have nine games left against what I would deem the ACC's decent-and-up teams (UNC, @UNC, VT, @VT, Notre Dame, Louisville, @Clemson, Cuse, UVA).

http://www.playoffstatus.com/accbasketball/accsosag.html

Agree with this, which is yet another reason why I agree with Bilas that UVa will likely finish the regular season atop the ACC.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Funny that you mention that, because based on the admittedly simplistic metric of conference winning percentage, the biggest discrepancy in difficulty between games played and games remaining belongs to...the Duke Blue Devils. Of course, that has a whole, whole lot to do with you guys already having played godawful Pitt twice, but by my count, you still have nine games left against what I would deem the ACC's decent-and-up teams (UNC, @UNC, VT, @VT, Notre Dame, Louisville, @Clemson, Cuse, UVA).

http://www.playoffstatus.com/accbasketball/accsosag.html

Yup! Dropping two cupcakes against two mediocre opponents makes it very challenging to uproot UVA from the #1 seed.

Saturday's game is incredibly important for Duke's mission of winning the ACC reg season. Also, the UVA game will show how good Duke really is. You better believe that "Zombie Duke" will make some sort of appearance on Saturday. At least, I hope so!

[PackMan97]

Yup! Dropping two cupcakes against two mediocre opponents makes

Arizona and Clemson want you to know that one of those cupcakes got a new, much better baker. Unfortunately, he's not using as much sugar as the old baker.

The other cupcake thought you should know that at home it has only lost twice to the #22 and #6 RPI teams and overall that team is 12-1 against teams with an RPI of 38-351.

So, you can call State and BC cupcakes, but I think their record this season would disagree with you (at least for now). They certainly aren't powerhouses...but they aren't the State and BC of the past two seasons.

[DukieInBrasil]

Arizona and Clemson want you to know that one of those cupcakes got a new, much better baker. Unfortunately, he's not using as much sugar as the old baker.

The other cupcake thought you should know that at home it has only lost twice to the #22 and #6 RPI teams and overall that team is 12-1 against teams with an RPI of 38-351.

So, you can call State and BC cupcakes, but I think their record this season would disagree with you (at least for now). They certainly aren't powerhouses...but they aren't the State and BC of the past two seasons.

anybody who says State is a cupcake is clearly mistaken. Duke should have won that game, but the loss is not a total surprise to anyone who has paid attention to the Duke-State rivalry over the years.

[rasputin]

anybody who says State is a cupcake is clearly mistaken. Duke should have won that game, but the loss is not a total surprise to anyone who has paid attention to the Duke-State rivalry over the years.

And no one who has paid attention to N.C. State will be surprised when they roll over and play dead for the Cheaters.

[flyingdutchdevil]

anybody who says State is a cupcake is clearly mistaken. Duke should have won that game, but the loss is not a total surprise to anyone who has paid attention to the Duke-State rivalry over the years.

New coach and fairly new team. I don't buy, "Program A has Program B's number" if so many variables are different. Maybe PNC Arena has a anti-Duke curve as you come through the doors?

"Cupcake" was probably too harsh. But "mediocre" isn't. NC State is the 5th worst ACC team according to KenPom. Their defense is a rough #134 in the country. NC State has some nice wins, but their body of work doesn't make them "good".

[English]

New coach and fairly new team. I don't buy, "Program A has Program B's number" if so many variables are different. Maybe PNC Arena has a anti-Duke curve as you come through the doors?

"Cupcake" was probably too harsh. But "mediocre" isn't. NC State is the 5th worst ACC team according to KenPom. Their defense is a rough #134 in the country. NC State has some nice wins, but their body of work doesn't make them "good".

^^^ This. Mediocre is fair, just as it's fair to say conference road games are tougher than merely looking at a team's profile and calling a team an easy win or schedule fodder or whatever.

I think the basic point stands--to win the conference regular season and the top ACCT seed, you're only really allowed a handful of losses (3-4, maybe 5 in especially quirky years), and we've burned two of those losses to teams that aren't likely to put similar losses on the other contenders. Simple. Is it over? Of course not.

[duke2x]

RPI Forecast/Sagarin Predictor is probably the better statistic to use here. Flip the UVA and @UNC margins, and you've got a reasonable prediction for the rest of the season. An even better rule of thumb is to square any Duke road game probability and square root any home game probability. Both UVA and Duke are too good to expect home losses excluding Saturday.

http://www.rpiforecast.com/teams/Duke.html

All of this is moot if we aren't prepared for the trip to Wake tonight. Wake always plays up the most for Duke and UNC in every sport.

[wobatus]

2014 - MSU was criminally under seeded and UVA lost by 2 points. Gill's ankle injury in second half was untimely.
2015 - MSU was probably under seeded again and UVA never recovered to Justin Anderson injury.
2016 - FML - choke job of epic proportions - this is the one that bothers me the most to this day. I think about it way more than I probably should. I have no explanation for it.
2017 - Beatdown in every sense of the word. It's not that we lost to UF in R32. It's how badly we lost. Pretty average UVA team though. Nichols suspension threw team off.

I think UVA has underperformed in NCAAs but it's not as bad as the media makes it sound. And I don't think it's a systemic issue more than some bad luck and matchups. I think it's a fair criticism of Bennett and our system but I think if you keep getting top seeds in the NCAAs, you'll break through eventually. We haven't lost in the first round of the tourney since 2012 when we were a 10-seed and got blitzed by Florida. Bennett has only lost to 3 teams in NCAAs at UVA - MSU X2 (Izzo), Florida X2 (Donovan/White), and Cuse X1 (Boeheim). These teams are not necessarily the best matchups for UVA and are mostly led by HOF coaches.

I do think that it's easier for teams to ramp up their defensive effort in NCAAs than it is for teams to ramp up their offensive effort. This eliminates our advantage that we seem to have in the regular season. I think we have a good shot to go far this year but there's no doubt we have offensive deficiencies that could plague us in a single-elimination tournament. We lack interior scoring and that puts a lot of pressure on our guards to hit jump shots, even if our offensive sets do a nice job of creating open looks. The development of DeAndre Hunter raises our ceiling but I still have concerns about our offense. Our defense is elite though and that will keep us in the majority of the games we play. We are definitely good enough to win 6 straight games against good teams. Doesn't mean we will though. You have to keep in mind that we were unranked to start the season. We are definitely overachieving at this point. Whether fair or not, UVA will only be judged by how we perform in the NCAA tournament. And we will continue to hear the narrative that our system doesn't work in March until we break through to a Final Four.

Tournament success can be hit or miss. Jay Wright lost 2nd or 3rd round games 5 years of 6 (and missed the tournament the 6th year) from 2010-2015, losing 3 times as a 1 or 2 seed, including to NC State in 2015. People were whispering he couldn't win in March. Until they won it all in 2016 the very next year. Crying piccolo girl did it. Bennett will get it done one of these days.

[thedukelamere]

Until they won it all in 2016 the very next year. Crying piccolo girl did it.

Oh yeah?? Then WHY is Northwestern going to miss the tourney this year?! :D

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LinearScaryAbyssiniancat-small.gif

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I miscounted on my preseason prediction of 19-11 for UNC. They play 31 regular season games, so they can't go 19-11. I'll give them 20-11, and I'm not 100% convinced they'll get to 20 wins, but I'm going conservative.

This is a very one dimensional team. Two things Roy loves to do, work inside out, and push the ball on every possession. UNC doesn't have the personnel to do either of those things. So they basically try to work it inside through the high post then get back door cuts and lay ups. It's worked a little against poorly coached teams, but the teams that are well coached and/or have bigger stronger faster players shut it down. This leaves UNC with Berry, Williams, Johnson or even sometimes Pinson(yeesh) chucking up a 3 with the shot-clock winding down. That has to drive Roy crazy.

I think they have 4 definite losses left on the schedule, with several others being a coin flip. They are at 16-5 right now, another loss, and they're out of the top 25. The signs have been there all season and pre-season that this would be a disastrous season for UNC(by blue blood standards). The loss to Wofford at home, struggling against Barton in the pre-season, struggling to beat Davidson by 10, needing a last second floater from Berry to beat Wake at home.

Last night, the body language looked terrible by the players and even Roy himself. Get your pop corn folks, we will have two epic beat downs of UNC this year, and they will lose a few more they're not supposed to lose. I think I'm being generous with 20-11. I've being saying it all season and I think it's starting to unfold, there will be an epic meltdown by this team this year. This will bring out fan ugliness, and some Haiti-like comments from Roy. Assuming he hasn't lost interest and is looking to next year. Oh. Wait, we got Cam, Barrett, and Zion. He has nothing to look forward to next year. :cool:

UNC is a live by the 3, die by the 3 team this year, as much as it pains me to say it.

The freshmen bigs just haven't gotten it done for UNC to play the way UNC wants to play inside. Manley is going to be a stud, but he is not strong enough or in shape enough to handle the minutes the team needs just yet.

There have been some issues with body language and frustration. I can see it a thousand miles away thru an iPad app. That's not all that uncommon with players used to winning and playing well. They're in a funk. It's up to Roy to settle this team down and get them to compete at a higher level.

I've never seen Roy "lose" a team, so the idea we'll see some kind of "epic meltdown" is wishful thinking.

This is still a good team that's just hit a rough stretch. I'm confident they'll get it together.

[MarkD83]

UNC is a live by the 3, die by the 3 team this year, as much as it pains me to say it.

The freshmen bigs just haven't gotten it done for UNC to play the way UNC wants to play inside. Manley is going to be a stud, but he is not strong enough or in shape enough to handle the minutes the team needs just yet.

There have been some issues with body language and frustration. I can see it a thousand miles away thru an iPad app. That's not all that uncommon with players used to winning and playing well. They're in a funk. It's up to Roy to settle this team down and get them to compete at a higher level.

I've never seen Roy "lose" a team, so the idea we'll see some kind of "epic meltdown" is wishful thinking.

This is still a good team that's just hit a rough stretch. I'm confident they'll get it together.

And Duke plays two bigs that run the floor...When did these two teams reverse their personalities...

BTW, even though the stats you cited about Roy vs K in the NCAA may not be well received here they are interesting. The first interesting point is that these are all skewed by "recency" bias. In the past two years it pains me to say that Roy is up 11-3. This 8 game difference is what skews all of the other stats. The second point is that if the NCAA had voided the 2009 6 wins by Roy all of the numbers would be reversed with K being >> Roy.

So, lets not reopen that can of worms and do this instead...They are both incredibly successful in the NCAA over the past (pick your number of years) with vastly different recruiting and playing philosophies.

Which one is better? Give me a few years to decide :)

[cato]

BTW, even though the stats you cited about Roy vs K in the NCAA may not be well received here they are interesting. The first interesting point is that these are all skewed by "recency" bias. In the past two years it pains me to say that Roy is up 11-3. This 8 game difference is what skews all of the other stats.

Exactly. But a quibble: that is what makes the stats uninteresting. It is not illuminating to look at the period ending in ‘92 and compare other coaches to K, or the period ending in ‘07 and compare other coaches to Donovan. Picking Roy’s high water mark doesn’t advance the conversation either.

K and Roy have been at this a long time. No need to pick and choose samples to compare them. Just look at their entire body of work. (Their NCAA records are K: 91-28 for 76.9 winning percentage; Roy: 76-24 for a 76.0 winning percentage).

Roy made up some ground in the past two years, but no one but a Heel (and even then, probably only those that like to stir up the water) would argue that these numbers put Roy above K.

Long story, short: don’t take the bait!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

(Their NCAA records are K: 91-28 for 76.9 winning percentage; Roy: 76-24 for a 76.0 winning percentage).



I did not realize how comparable their winning percentages were.

[cato]

I did not realize how comparable their winning percentages were.

Me neither. Roy is a great coach, and always has been. It will be interesting to see how things play out. Will Roy want to stick around and see if he can get back to winning big recruiting battles when K retires?

Will K want to keep going in hopes he can keep a step ahead of Roy (and Calipari)?

Since I had to do some math to calculate winning percentages, I am reminded of a more basic equation:

5 > 3.

[UrinalCake]

UVA just held a very good, ranked Clemson team to 36 points. Not in a half, for the entire game. This Saturday is going to be a battle. We have fared well against them in the past because we have always had four shooters who can bomb away over the packline defense, but this year will be another story.

[TheOldBattleship]

UVA just held a very good, ranked Clemson team to 36 points. Not in a half, for the entire game. This Saturday is going to be a battle. We have fared well against them in the past because we have always had four shooters who can bomb away over the packline defense, but this year will be another story.

I'm the last one to suggest that UVA isn't tough as nails, but I'm not sure how much you can take away from that Clemson game. First game for Clemson after losing Grantham was bound to be tough; he's been their best player and a really important leader all year long. Particularly key as a playmaker for them, giving the offense a touch of variety with his passing at the nominal 4 spot. Worse, they're trying to replace his production with a freshman and sophomore who have combined for 4 points, 4 rebounds, and .5 assists (yes, combined) in 25 min per game. He was just that one guy for Clemson that every team has that you absolutely cannot afford to lose, and they lost him for the year and had to redesign their entire offensive scheme two days before facing the Pack Line in Charlottesville? Oof.

That being said, UVA is really, really good, and this game is going to be TOUGH.

[PackMan97]

I did not realize how comparable their winning percentages were.

Keep in mind one of the coaches has a very big *asterisk* next to their record. So, they aren't really are that comparable.


UVA just held a very good, ranked Clemson team to 36 points. Not in a half, for the entire game. This Saturday is going to be a battle. We have fared well against them in the past because we have always had four shooters who can bomb away over the packline defense, but this year will be another story.

Clemson did just lose one of their best players for the year in Donte Grantham. Second leading scorer, rebounder and a solid 3pt shooter. That is going to make a huge difference. Clemson actually led early with a score of 23-16...but then UVa turned up the defense, closing the first half on an 11-0 run and curb stomping the kittens in the second half 13-36. For those keeping track at home, after being down 6 with about 6 minutes left in the first half, UVa went on a 47-13 run to close out the game. In 26 minutes, Clemson scored 13 points. This is the first time this season they've lost by more than 8 points.

The news isn't all good for UVa as Isaiah Wilkins hit the ground hard in the first half and only very briefly played in the second. No idea on the potential injury, didn't see it.

[PackMan97]

...so anyone have some predictions concerning NC State vs Pitt? We have sucked on the road...can we get it done against the worst team in the ACC since BC from two years ago?

This is a game NC State must win to keep our slim post-season hopes alive. Losing to Pitt would be our worst loss to date and we already have two >100 losses on the books. Besides, we will need to steal at least one or two on the road (@GT, @Wake, @Syracuse seem the most likely) to get to .500 or better in conference and have a shot at a post-season tourney (whether it be the NCAAT or a lesser event). If we can't handle Pitt on the road, I just don't see that happening.

[Wahoo2000]

I'm the last one to suggest that UVA isn't tough as nails, but I'm not sure how much you can take away from that Clemson game. First game for Clemson after losing Grantham was bound to be tough; he's been their best player and a really important leader all year long. Particularly key as a playmaker for them, giving the offense a touch of variety with his passing at the nominal 4 spot. Worse, they're trying to replace his production with a freshman and sophomore who have combined for 4 points, 4 rebounds, and .5 assists (yes, combined) in 25 min per game. He was just that one guy for Clemson that every team has that you absolutely cannot afford to lose, and they lost him for the year and had to redesign their entire offensive scheme two days before facing the Pack Line in Charlottesville? Oof.

That being said, UVA is really, really good, and this game is going to be TOUGH.

Clemson came out and played some REALLY inspired ball for about the first 10-15 min - I might chalk it up to that emotional uptick you sometimes get after losing a key guy to a devastating injury. After that, they just couldn't do much of anything. They got to 20 points rather quickly, then just kind of fizzled. We (UVA) were on our game, but they weren't playing well at all even in the things they COULD control (sloppy passing, terrible % on the few open looks they WOULD get).

Maybe they'll bounce back with a little more time to reorganize, but I expect Clemson to go into a semi tailspin and be much closer to the bottom-tier teams the rest of the way.

The UVA Duke game on Sat is massive. I'm sure I'll have more to say later, but I don't really love our chances given recent history PLUS our one defensive "kryptonite" this year has been inability to limit offensive rebounds and there's NO ONE better at taking advantage there than Duke. Honestly, Allen/Duval/Trent could have AWFUL days shooting and I still hate our chances. Bagley/Carter might get more off rebounds than we get def rebounds (is that a thing?).

[Wahoo2000]

The news isn't all good for UVa as Isaiah Wilkins hit the ground hard in the first half and only very briefly played in the second. No idea on the potential injury, didn't see it.

Back. Said he was good to return but game got out of hand so we held him out. No other info out there - even for the team - until he gets a thorough exam from trainers tomorrow. Sounds like he fell on his back and probably had some mild spasm. If he misses the Duke game though......... let's just say "and slim just left town".*








*We miss ya, Chick

[TheOldBattleship]

Maybe they'll bounce back with a little more time to reorganize, but I expect Clemson to go into a semi tailspin and be much closer to the bottom-tier teams the rest of the way.

Sadly, I agree with this. I think they were on track to have a really good year, make the tournament, and maybe win a couple of games there, but without Grantham... I dunno. If they can steal a couple of road wins and win the games they should win at home down the stretch, they might still sneak in the Dance, but I wouldn't bet on it. Just a tough break for them.

[DarkstarWahoo]

Agree on all counts, 2000. I'd put us at about a 30 percent chance to win the game with Wilkins (which, historically, is still head-spinningly high in Durham), and maybe a 3 percent chance without him. Even before he hurt his back (was it when he took that charge?) he was laboring out there. I know it was the third game in six days, but I was having uncomfortable flashbacks to the end of last year when his sickle cell trait flared up. They need to lock him in an oxygen tent or put him in a medically induced coma until Saturday.

And Clemson...yeesh. Your assessment seems pretty accurate to me. I hope they can keep it together long enough to get a bid and save Brownell, whom I like. But I don't like their chances. I wish UVA had made more of a play for Simms - he's going to be a good one.

[PackMan97]

The +/- so far this season.
+1 for a road win, -1 for home loss


TEAM +/- CONF OVERALL
Virginia +3 8-0 19-1 @VT, @GT, @WF
Duke +3 6-2 18-2 @Pitt, @UM, @WF
Louisville +2 5-1 15-4 @ND, @FSU
Clemson +1 5-3 16-4 @BC
North Carolina +1 5-3 16-5 @ND
Miami +1 3-3 14-4 @NCSU, @Pitt, (Duke)
Georgia Tech 0 3-3 10-9 @Pitt, (UVa)
Florida State 0 3-4 14-5 @VT, (UL)
Virginia Tech -1 3-4 14-6 @WF, (FSU, UVa)
Boston College -1 3-4 13-7 (Clemson)
Notre Dame -1 3-4 13-7 @Cuse, (UL, Cheats)
NC State -1 3-4 13-7 (UM)
Syracuse -1 2-4 13-6 (ND)
Wake Forest -3 1-7 8-12 (Duke, UVa,VT)
Pittsburgh -3 0-7 8-12 (UM, Duke, GT)

This gives a pretty decent look at who might have room to move up or down in the standings. Surprisingly, neither Duke nor UVa have only two decent road wins, both against middling teams. Wake on the other had could look at all three of their home losses and be frustrated because that's a tough stretch!

[W&LHoo]

The +/- so far this season.
+1 for a road win, -1 for home loss


TEAM +/- CONF OVERALL
Virginia +3 8-0 19-1 @VT, @GT, @WF
Duke +3 6-2 18-2 @Pitt, @UM, @WF
Louisville +2 5-1 15-4 @ND, @FSU
Clemson +1 5-3 16-4 @BC
North Carolina +1 5-3 16-5 @ND
Miami +1 3-3 14-4 @NCSU, @Pitt, (Duke)
Georgia Tech 0 3-3 10-9 @Pitt, (UVa)
Florida State 0 3-4 14-5 @VT, (UL)
Virginia Tech -1 3-4 14-6 @WF, (FSU, UVa)
Boston College -1 3-4 13-7 (Clemson)
Notre Dame -1 3-4 13-7 @Cuse, (UL, Cheats)
NC State -1 3-4 13-7 (UM)
Syracuse -1 2-4 13-6 (ND)
Wake Forest -3 1-7 8-12 (Duke, UVa,VT)
Pittsburgh -3 0-7 8-12 (UM, Duke, GT)

This gives a pretty decent look at who might have room to move up or down in the standings. Surprisingly, neither Duke nor UVa have only two decent road wins, both against middling teams. Wake on the other had could look at all three of their home losses and be frustrated because that's a tough stretch!

The other interpretation is just that the good teams are holding serve on their home courts. Which doesn't bode well for my wahoos come Saturday.

[PackMan97]

The other interpretation is just that the good teams are holding serve on their home courts. Which doesn't bode well for my wahoos come Saturday.

The good teams are winning wherever they play. The middle of the road teams are holding serve at home. The worst teams are losing at home.

[pfrduke]

The other interpretation is just that the good teams are holding serve on their home courts. Which doesn't bode well for my wahoos come Saturday.

Also interesting to note that UVA has had 5 home games in their first 8, while Duke has had 5 road games in their first 8. UVA has to play 2 more road games than Duke does over the rest of the conference season.

[DukieInBrasil]

Sure would be nice if Miami could reverse the outcome of the first half and beat Loo'vuhl at home.

[duketaylor]

I've guessed Duke will be favored by 4 and O/U at 137. Just a stab.

[Troublemaker]

I've guessed Duke will be favored by 4 and O/U at 137. Just a stab.

Mine's pretty close. Duke -4.5 and O/U 135.

NCSU better start playing better at Pitt. (Didn't want to use the jinx thread because I like NCSU and hope they turn it around).

[PackMan97]

Mine's pretty close. Duke -4.5 and O/U 135.

NCSU better start playing better at Pitt. (Didn't want to use the jinx thread because I like NCSU and hope they turn it around).

Our zone offense is...offensive.

Shooting 25% for the first half, against their 53% with 8 made threes. Lucky to be down only 10.

[DukieInBrasil]

The good teams are winning wherever they play. The middle of the road teams are holding serve at home. The worst teams are losing at home.

If i was coaching NCSU, i'd have Al Freeman sit a bit more. His decision making and shot selection have dragged NCSU down more than pulled them up. What a putrid 1st half of shooting by State, good thing is they're only down 10, which if they shoot decently from the floor in the 2nd half they could definitely win this game. Lack of turnovers and grabbing lots of offensive boards are good indicators that they can play quality ball in this game.

In the other game: Miami hit a driving layup at the end of the game to force overtime.

[chrishoke]

Miami beats Louisville in OT.

[devildeac]

Miami beats Louisville in OT.

Loovil scored 6 points in OT. Amazing. I swear they had scored 2 points in the OT with about 30 seconds to go :eek:.

[devildeac]

Our zone offense is...offensive.

Shooting 25% for the first half, against their 53% with 8 made threes. Lucky to be down only 10.

I swear the last 5 possessions have all been turnovers in the last 90 seconds or so. Looking like some really awful basketball.

[TheOldBattleship]

I swear the last 5 possessions have all been turnovers in the last 90 seconds or so. Looking like some really awful basketball.

I'm not watching (thank goodness), but the box score is absolutely hilarious. Freeman, Dorn, Hunt, and Beverly are currently a combined 8-42, including 5-25 from three. Yikes. #FEEDOMER

[devildeac]

I'm not watching (thank goodness), but the box score is absolutely hilarious. Freeman, Dorn, Hunt, and Beverly are currently a combined 8-42, including 5-25 from three. Yikes. #FEEDOMER

I can't find it on our tv listings. Should I check the Comedy Channel? :rolleyes:

[Newton_14]

I did not realize how comparable their winning percentages were.

Doesn't matter though and isn't worthy of having it discussed. All accomplishments were ill got gains using illegal players for 25+ years. They no longer mean anything to me, or most every other fans I know from non unc-fraud schools. Winning %'s, banners, none of it means anything to me.

I personally feel it shouldn't be justified by having the discussion, but that's just me.

[TheOldBattleship]

I can't find it on our tv listings. Should I check the Comedy Channel? :rolleyes:

Hahaha it just keeps going. Game log from timeout at 2:15 to 1:25 left in the game. NCState with a two-point lead.

1:25 NC State Timeout 68 - 66
1:35 Markell Johnson Defensive Rebound. 68 - 66
1:35 Marcus Carr missed Three Point Jumper. 68 - 66
1:58 Markell Johnson Turnover. 68 - 66
2:09 Pittsburgh Turnover. 68 - 66
2:10 Pittsburgh Deadball Team Rebound. 68 - 66
2:13 Torin Dorn Block. 68 - 66
2:13 Kene Chukwuka missed Jumper. 68 - 66
2:15 Official TV Timeout 68 - 66

[DukieInBrasil]

wow! how did State pull that one out? Real shame that they played down to (below even) Pitt in the 1st half, but just good enough to win in the end.

[TheOldBattleship]

wow! how did State pull that one out? Real shame that they played down to (below even) Pitt in the 1st half, but just good enough to win in the end.

NC State at home: 12-2 (against, admittedly, not consistently good competition). NC State on the road or on a neutral court before tonight: 1-5 (against, admittedly, pretty good competition). But it does seem that, especially in true road games, State is just a different team in games away from home.

This was a HUGE one for them to pull out, though. I think it's not unreasonable to say that a loss to this Pitt team to drop them to 3-5 in the ACC might have killed whatever chance at the NCAA tournament they still have.

[DukieInBrasil]

NC State at home: 12-2 (against, admittedly, not consistently good competition). NC State on the road or on a neutral court before tonight: 1-5 (against, admittedly, pretty good competition). But it does seem that, especially in true road games, State is just a different team in games away from home.

This was a HUGE one for them to pull out, though. I think it's not unreasonable to say that a loss to this Pitt team to drop them to 3-5 in the ACC might have killed whatever chance at the NCAA tournament they still have.

State's got several high-quality wins, but finishing at or above .500 in ACC play is probably required for them to make the dance.

[ncexnyc]

State just saved their season with that win. Had they lost that game all their good wins would have been thrown out the window.

Rough finish for Ryan McMahon of the Cards. He'll have a rough time sleeping tonight. First he gives up the ball on a tie-up, then he misses the first of three free throws, and finally he has the final shot of the game blocked.

Loved Dicky V. talking up the senior leadership of Quentin Snider, only to have him look totally lost during the OT, talk about the announcers jinx, that was it in spades.

[PackMan97]

I'm not watching (thank goodness), but the box score is absolutely hilarious. Freeman, Dorn, Hunt, and Beverly are currently a combined 8-42, including 5-25 from three. Yikes. #FEEDOMER

I really feel for Pitt...even our worst is enough to win. After dropping 8 threes in the first half, Pitt went 0-14 in the second. Whew.

[PackMan97]

Upon further reflection, State did not play bad...we just shot poorly.

Shooting - Ok, it was bad....24-71 and 9-35 from beyond the arc. But, key stat of the game here...we made 15-15 free throws.
71 shots...to Pitt's 55. 16 more shots even with our awful shooting made a big difference.

Speaking of those 24 baskets, we recorded 21 assists!

6 total turnovers (vs 14 for Pitt)

42 rebounds including 17 on the offensive glass (vs 6 offensive and 34 total for Pitt).

I doubt there is another team in the ACC and probably very few in the nation in which we pull out the W in this game give our bad shooting....but a road ACC win is a road ACC win. Only troubling part is how much bed wetting we are doing on the road.

[left_hook_lacey]

Upon further reflection, State did not play bad...we just shot poorly.

Shooting - Ok, it was bad...24-71 and 9-35 from beyond the arc. But, key stat of the game here...we made 15-15 free throws.
71 shots...to Pitt's 55. 16 more shots even with our awful shooting made a big difference.

Speaking of those 24 baskets, we recorded 21 assists!

6 total turnovers (vs 14 for Pitt)

42 rebounds including 17 on the offensive glass (vs 6 offensive and 34 total for Pitt).

I doubt there is another team in the ACC and probably very few in the nation in which we pull out the W in this game give our bad shooting...but a road ACC win is a road ACC win. Only troubling part is how much bed wetting we are doing on the road.


Great. I'm going to need you to take this W, build on it, and get ready for Saturday. Should be game 1 of a sweep against UNC this year. Come on. Ya'll got this! :cool:

[DukieInBrasil]

Great. I'm going to need you to take this W, build on it, and get ready for Saturday. Should be game 1 of a sweep against UNC this year. Come on. Ya'll got this! :cool:

I second that motion!

[ncexnyc]

Hopefully the Pack learn how to feed Yurtseven in the post prior to the game on Saturday.

[cato]

Great. I'm going to need you to take this W, build on it, and get ready for Saturday. Should be game 1 of a sweep against UNC this year. Come on. Ya'll got this! :cool:

Ah, the week leading up to Carolina. Where the Wolfpack practices rolling over and exposing their soft underbelly.

[devildeac]

Ah, the week leading up to Carolina. Where the Wolfpack practices rolling over and exposing their soft underbelly.

To their credit, they didn't die when they rolled over. Let's see the Pack show us another road W this weekend.

[left_hook_lacey]

Hopefully the Pack learn how to feed Yurtseven in the post prior to the game on Saturday.

This. And don't force it, just let it happen within the flow of the offense. Do that, and Yurtseven will eat them alive. They cannot handle big, skilled 5's this year.

[Bob Green]

Saturday
[8]North Carolina (5-2) (-14) hosts [68]NC State(3-4) (12:00, CBS)
[4]Duke (5-2) (-2) hosts [3]Virginia (7-0) (2:00, CBS)
[24]Florida State (3-4) (-4) hosts [28]Miami (3-3) (4:00, ACCNE)
[214]Pittsburgh (0-7) (+8) hosts [49]Syracuse (2-4) (4:00, ACCNE)
[31]Notre Dame (3-4) (-6) hosts [54]Virginia Tech (2-4) (8:00, ESPN2)
[34]Louisville (5-1) (-9) hosts [92]Wake Forest (1-6) (8:00, ACCNE)



Lots of basketball action available to entertain us on this last Saturday in January starting with State at Carolina. I'm not optimistic the Wolfpack can beat the Heels in Chapel Hill but the +13 Vegas is handing them might be enough to cover the spread. I have a hard time seeing Carolina being 13 points better than State. This is a game both teams need to win, will both teams come out of the locker room equally motivated? I'll be rooting for State but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Miami at Florida State should be another good match-up. Vegas has the Seminoles favored by 4.5 points. This game is a toss up in my opinion.

Syracuse at Pittsburgh is a must win game for the Orange. A win evens their ACC record at 4-4 and places them solidly in the quagmire that is the middle of the conference standings. This is a ho hum who cares game from my biased perspective.

Virginia Tech at Notre Dame is an important game for two teams sitting at 3-4. It pains me that Notre Dame is dealing with so many injuries this season. Vegas has the Irish favored by 3.5 points but I like the Hokies in this one.

Finally, Wake Forest travels to Louisville. Can the Demon Deacons pull off the upset? I don't think so.

[PackMan97]

Lots of basketball action available to entertain us on this last Saturday in January starting with State at Carolina. I'm not optimistic the Wolfpack can beat the Heels in Chapel Hill but the +13 Vegas is handing them might be enough to cover the spread. I have a hard time seeing Carolina being 13 points better than State. This is a game both teams need to win, will both teams come out of the locker room equally motivated? I'll be rooting for State but I'm not getting my hopes up.


Being motivated won't be a problem. Making shots might be. In our road games so far, we have shot horribly. I'm not talking run in the mill bad night, I'm talking historically bad. Carolina may not be Carolina of old, but they have horns enough to gore a wolf that rolls over and plays dead.

I can see Carolina winning by 31, or State winning by 13. I have a tough time envisioning a 13 point Wolfpack loss.

[devildeac]

Being motivated won't be a problem. Making shots might be. In our road games so far, we have shot horribly. I'm not talking run in the mill bad night, I'm talking historically bad. Carolina may not be Carolina of old, but they have horns enough to gore a wolf that rolls over and plays dead.

I can see Carolina winning by 31, or State winning by 13. I have a tough time envisioning a 13 point Wolfpack loss.

Early reports:

1. Yurt picked up 2 fouls getting off the bus. Explanation somewhat garbled but sounded like illegal possession of a textbook.

2. Cheaters already in the 1+1.

Not looking good for the guys in red and white (and gray and black or whatever unis the Pack wears today:rolleyes:).

[Bob Green]

Being motivated won't be a problem.

I hope you're correct. Yurtseven could dominate today as he is more talented than Carolina's inside players.

[Bob Green]

State achieving success early playing inside out. State 21, Carolina 15 at under 12 timeout.

[devildeac]

State achieving success early playing inside out. State 21, Carolina 15 at under 12 timeout.

Won't last. Communications from Greensboro imminent.

[DukieInBrasil]

State with a 1st half lead. They've been going to Yurt7 with some frequency and hitting their 3s while UNC is 0-8 from 3. Beautiful.

eta: did i just jinx the game? UNC hits a 3 to get within 1...

[Bob Green]

State is 6-10 on 3PT FG while Carolina is 1-9. :cool:

[timmy c]

State achieving success early playing inside out. State 21, Carolina 15 at under 12 timeout.


State with a 1st half lead. They've been going to Yurt7 with some frequency and hitting their 3s while UNC is 0-8 from 3. Beautiful.

eta: did i just jinx the game? UNC hits a 3 to get within 1...

I am holding both of you responsible, if UNC pulls out a win!

[Bob Green]

Carolina finished the 1st half strong to take a 41-38 advantage into the locker room. State's Yurtseven has 12 points and 7 rebounds. Carolina with 26 rebounds to State's 16.

[devildeac]

Expecting "regression" to the mean: State goes cold on 3s, cheaters shoot lights out 3s second half and win by 15. Or more.

But, what do I know? :o:rolleyes:

[Bob Green]

Expecting "regression" to the mean: State goes cold on 3s,

State is 2-4 on 3PT FG in 2nd half. 50% isn't shabby.

[Bob Green]

Malik Abu cannot be 100% healthy. He is getting eaten alive inside and looks like a shell of the player he used to be.

[DukieInBrasil]

State is 2-4 on 3PT FG in 2nd half. 50% isn't shabby.

bring this discussion over to the I'm not gonna jinx it thread!!!

[juise]

The definition of insanity is giving Theo Pinson a running start at the rim over and over, expecting different results.

[Ballboy1998]

Total phantom call at the end to keep the heels from losing in regulation.

[Acymetric]

Is there a (legitimate) way to stream CBS games?

[kmspeaks]

Is there a (legitimate) way to stream CBS games?

On a computer go to cbssports.com. On a phone or other device download the cbssports app. I hook my chromebook up to the tv with an HDMI cable and generally have no issues. No cable provider login necessary.

[dukelion]

Brutal loss for UNC :)

[richardjackson199]

Brutal loss for UNC :)

Not yet:(

[juise]

Brutal loss for UNC :)

*reverse jinx dance after Maye 3*

[dukelion]

Not yet:(

I was pretty confident:)

[devildeac]

Expecting "regression" to the mean: State goes cold on 3s, cheaters shoot lights out 3s second half and win by 15. Or more.

But, what do I know? :o:rolleyes:

Mrs. dd: "Dear, for you, being correct is never an option."

:o:rolleyes:

[devildeac]

@moon and richardjackson: cheats looked pretty good.

[Bob Green]

It was a very entertaining game. State showed a lot of heart as Carolina kept getting the lead to 5 or 6 and then State when tie it back up. Joel Berry took a couple of hard falls in the game and was limping noticeably down the stretch so I hope he is okay...never desire to see an athlete hurt.

[PackMan97]

10 is binary for #2. Thus state moves to 3-0 vs grand ranked 2.

[arnie]

10 is binary for #2. Thus state moves to 3-0 vs grand ranked 2.

Congtrats. I think Keatts is your man for a long time.

[MartyClark]

10 is binary for #2. Thus state moves to 3-0 vs grand ranked 2.

Great win, congratulations. I was hoping for a double-double today of Carolina loss and Duke win. Doesn't look like it will happen.

[flyingdutchdevil]

10 is binary for #2. Thus state moves to 3-0 vs grand ranked 2.

Congrats on the big win. Awesome job.

[PackMan97]

Congrats on the big win. Awesome job.


Thanks!

Roy was 114-0 at home when his teams shoot 50% or better. Now he's 114-1.

:)

[PackMan97]

TEAM +/- CONF OVERALL
Virginia +4 9-0 20-1 @VT, @GT, @WF, @Duke
Duke +2 6-3 18-3 @Pitt, @UM, @WF, (UVa)
Louisville +2 6-2 16-5 @ND, @FSU
Clemson +1 5-3 16-4 @BC
NC State +1 5-4 15-7 @Pitt, @Cheats, (UM)
Miami +1 4-4 15-5 @NCSU, @Pitt, (Duke)
North Carolina 0 5-4 16-6 @ND, (@NCSU)
Georgia Tech 0 3-4 10-10 @Pitt, (UVa)
Florida State 0 5-4 16-5 @VT, (UL)
Virginia Tech 0 4-4 15-6 @WF, @ND, (FSU, UVa)
Syracuse 0 4-4 15-6 @Pitt, (ND)
Boston College -1 3-5 13-8 (Clemson)
Notre Dame -2 3-5 13-8 @Cuse, (UL, Cheats, VT)
Wake Forest -3 1-8 8-13 (Duke, UVa,VT)
Pittsburgh -4 0-9 8-14 (UM, Duke, GT, Syracuse)

Things are starting to shake out....UVa is clearly in the drivers seat.

Duke holds second in a good spot, but is entering the tough stretch of their schedule, but will get to play more at home.

Lousiville has a lot of road games to go and they are about to find out the joy that has become playing UVa.

Clemson has had extra time to lick their wounds and get a road win at GT to try and keep their season alive.

State is suddenly in a good spot with two road wins in a row and another top 10 scalp on their resume. Unlike in years past, they saved a bad game for a bad team and eeked out the win and saved a good game for a good team and eeked out the win.

About the only thing certain right now is UVa is good, Pitt is bad.

[PackMan97]

A quick note about State this season:

State now has four wins against teams in the RPI top 25 (Duke, Arizona, Clemson, UNC).

Over the combined past three seasons, we had a total of 5 wins against the top RPI top 25. If you push that out all the way back to 2011-12, we only have 8 wins over the top 25 (over 6 seasons). In just half a season Coach Keatts already has half the wins against the RPI top 25 as Coach Gottfried has had in his entire 6 year tenure.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

UNC's shooting funk continued today, and State stroked it.

I thought both teams played hard, no complaints on effort in this one, but UNC made some key TO's, didn't make FT's, and didn't finish at the rim very well. Can't expect to beat a good team doing that.

The next Clemson game is big. UNC has now lost several tight, tough games, that could have gone either way, but it's at that point in the season where you have to win to be near the top of the league. They've got to start closing games out.

UNC is due to start shooting it better, which will give them some confidence that they seem lacking on their shots. When just a few start falling, this team will look much better and the wins will come.

Gotta say I like State's new coach. He has them playing smarter and better than they've played in a long time. His post game interview was sharp. Maybe they've found their man for a while.

[UrinalCake]

Interesting tweet by Jeff Goodman:



@GoodmanESPN
12h12 hours ago
Tony Bennett’s ACC record in the last 4 1/2 years: 64-16. Roy is 57-23 in that span and K is 56-24.

Of course, K and Roy both have titles in that span, while Bennett has yet to reach the Final Four. But impressive nonetheless.

[Bob Green]

Gotta say I like State's new coach. He has them playing smarter and better than they've played in a long time. His post game interview was sharp. Maybe they've found their man for a while.

The early returns are certainly positive. What remains to be seen is whether or not he can successfully recruit against Coach K and Coach Williams. Moreover, how long before the delusional State fan base starts getting under his skin.

[Bob Green]

The middle of the ACC standings is a quagmire with seven teams having four losses: FSU, Carolina, State, Miami, Syracuse, VT and GT. Duke and Clemson are just in front of the pack with three losses. The battle for tournament seeding is going to be interesting.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

The early returns are certainly positive. What remains to be seen is whether or not he can successfully recruit against Coach K and Coach Williams. Moreover, how long before the delusional State fan base starts getting under his skin.

There are a lot of really good players out there. My bet is he'll get ones that fit what he wants to do. Playing in the ACC is a very big draw.

And, unfortunately, delusional fans bases are the norm in the ACC, it wouldn't be any better anywhere else.

My fellow young UNC fans might just be the worst. Go look around, they are screaming at Roy for not playing Felton more, he has all those recruiting *'s!!!!... forgetting he's been a walking TO all season and hasn't shown he can guard the team manager. And it's not like Roy hasn't been giving him a chance to prove he should get more time.

Delusional, ridiculous, fair weather fans, everybody has them.

[Troublemaker]

UNC's shooting funk continued today, and State stroked it.

I thought both teams played hard, no complaints on effort in this one, but UNC made some key TO's, didn't make FT's, and didn't finish at the rim very well. Can't expect to beat a good team doing that.

The next Clemson game is big. UNC has now lost several tight, tough games, that could have gone either way, but it's at that point in the season where you have to win to be near the top of the league. They've got to start closing games out.

UNC is due to start shooting it better, which will give them some confidence that they seem lacking on their shots. When just a few start falling, this team will look much better and the wins will come.

Gotta say I like State's new coach. He has them playing smarter and better than they've played in a long time. His post game interview was sharp. Maybe they've found their man for a while.

Your defense also stunk, you know?

In conference games only, UNC is 3rd in the conference in offense at a healthy 110 offensive efficiency (which means you score 1.1 points a possession, as a reminder). But, UNC is only 9th in the conference in defense with a 105 efficiency. (Duke is 7th in the conference on defense with a 102 efficiency).

The side of the ball to most focus on is probably defense.

[Bob Green]

And, unfortunately, delusional fans bases are the norm in the ACC, it wouldn't be any better anywhere else.

Delusional, ridiculous, fair weather fans, everybody has them.

State fans take the cake. But your point is germane.

[PackMan97]

State fans take the cake. But your point is germane.

I would argue that is UNC's fan base is the most delusional. Most of them think they didn't cheat since the NCAA didn't bust them.

As for State fans, I don't think expecting a competitive team is delusional. Wanting to exceed expectations every now and then and improve during the season is not delusional. Until you look at how State has done under our recent coaches do your realize just how poorly we have been performing. Take Gottfried who before his last two losing seasons have been to the NCAAT four times in a row. ..it's not that folks are upset with going to the tournament, but he got in with smoke and mirrors.

Let's look at our RPI the past few years vs the RPI top 25
2017-18: 4-4
-- Gottfried fired ---
2016-17: 1-6 (3-15 vs the top 100, 15-17 overall record)
2015-16: 1-7 (3-16 vs the top 100, 16-17 overall record)
2014-15: 3-6 (10-10 vs the top 100, 20-13 overall record)
2013-14: 1-7 (6-10 vs the top 100, 21-13 overall record)
2012-13: 2-5 (7-9 vs the top 100, 24-10 overall record)
2011-12: 0-8 (6-10 vs the top 100, 22-12 overall record)
--- Lowe Fired ---
2010-11: 0-9 (3-13 vs to the top 100, 14-13 overall record)

So, NC State has had a grand total of EIGHT (8) wins vs the RPI top 25 prior 7 seasons (note: using ESPN data which only goes back to 2010-11). Is it delusional to think that any power 5 school should be more competitive than that? In Coach Keats first season, with the back half of the ACC yet to play and the ACCT to come, we already have half as many Top 25 wins as did Lowe and Gottfried COMBINED over the past seven seasons.

I don't think it's delusional at all to think that State should be more competitive in the ACC. We've always recruited well and underperformed due to lack of coaching. Would any Carolina or Duke fan accept State's record under Gottfried? Lowe? Would they accept 10 years of Sendek without an ACC title, first place regular season ACC finish or advancing past the sweet 16? Would UVa? Wake? GT? FSU? Syracuse? Miami? I would argue no, they wouldn't.

FSU in Hamilton comes close, but keep in mind he does have the 2012 ACC Championship to his name, has finished in the in the top 3 in the ACC four times and coaches at a school that is a football powerhouse to take some of the spotlight off of him.

[OldPhiKap]

^^ I think State fans win for most frustrated, but agree not most delusional. State can be competitive, State should be competitive. State has hired lousy coaches for decades though. I am hopeful that streak is broken.

And agree, belief in “The Carolina Way” is the epitome of smug self-delusion.

[Bob Green]

I would argue that is UNC's fan base is the most delusional.

We can agree to disagree. My opinion is based on having been born and raised in North Carolina, and having watched ACC sports and interacted with other team's fans for over 50 years. You're entitled to your opinion, which is every bit as valid as mine, but you are not going to change my opinion.

[TruBlu]

State fans take the cake. But your point is germane.

Germane bombed Pearl Harbor. Never forget!

[OldPhiKap]

Germane bombed Pearl Harbor. Never forget!

He was also my favorite Jackson of the five.

[PackMan97]

Clemson with a huge win on the road against GT to advance to 6-3. They have a relatively soft schedule left with games @Wake, vs Pitt, @VT, vs GT. The do host the Cheats, Duke and FSU as well as travel to FSU and Syracuse...but they have a great chance even with their injury to get a 10 win ACC season and maybe even better.

[CDu]

Clemson with a huge win on the road against GT to advance to 6-3. They have a relatively soft schedule left with games @Wake, vs Pitt, @VT, vs GT. The do host the Cheats, Duke and FSU as well as travel to FSU and Syracuse...but they have a great chance even with their injury to get a 10 win ACC season and maybe even better.

Would love to see them steal one at home against UNC.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Would love to see them steal one at home against UNC.

This upcoming Clemson game is really big for UNC. Their backs are getting closer to the wall.

I'm looking for the player to show some swagger and follow it up with some production. Maye has it, but it needs to be somebody that controls the dribble to break down a defense.

Berry and Williams struggle creating with the ball, they are best suited as off the ball players. Johnson lacks the quickness to create like Justin Jackson could, and is also better off the ball. Felton has proven to not be ready. Robinson is getting better, but is still a year away from prime time production.

That leaves Pinson. He has to step up and go all alpha dawg out there and attack. I'm beginning to see him as UNC's most important player now.

[left_hook_lacey]

This upcoming Clemson game is really big for UNC. Their backs are getting closer to the wall.

I'm looking for the player to show some swagger and follow it up with some production. Maye has it, but it needs to be somebody that controls the dribble to break down a defense.

Berry and Williams struggle creating with the ball, they are best suited as off the ball players. Johnson lacks the quickness to create like Justin Jackson could, and is also better off the ball. Felton has proven to not be ready. Robinson is getting better, but is still a year away from prime time production.

That leaves Pinson. He has to step up and go all alpha dawg out there and attack. I'm beginning to see him as UNC's most important player now.

Then may God have mercy on your soul.

[curtis325]

Would love to see them steal one at home against UNC.

A Clemson win at home vs cheats would not be a steal. It would not even be an upset.

[CDu]

A Clemson win at home vs cheats would not be a steal. It would not even be an upset.

I disagree. Clemson, now without their best player, should be the underdog in that game. Even at home. If Clemson still had Grantham? They would be favored.

[kshepinthehouse]

This upcoming Clemson game is really big for UNC. Their backs are getting closer to the wall.

I'm looking for the player to show some swagger and follow it up with some production. Maye has it, but it needs to be somebody that controls the dribble to break down a defense.

Berry and Williams struggle creating with the ball, they are best suited as off the ball players. Johnson lacks the quickness to create like Justin Jackson could, and is also better off the ball. Felton has proven to not be ready. Robinson is getting better, but is still a year away from prime time production.

That leaves Pinson. He has to step up and go all alpha dawg out there and attack. I'm beginning to see him as UNC's most important player now.

The more Pinson shoots the better for the other team. Especially three pointers. Pinson can shoot UNC out of a game quicker than anyone. UNC vs Duke Pinson can have all the shots he wants.

[CDu]

The more Pinson shoots the better for the other team. Especially three pointers. Pinson can shoot UNC out of a game quicker than anyone. UNC vs Duke Pinson can have all the shots he wants.

Pinson does a lot of things well. Strong rebounder, good ballhandler and their best passer, excellent defender. Shooting is not one of the things he does well. But he is a good player.

[OldPhiKap]

Pinson does a lot of things well. Strong rebounder, good ballhandler and their best passer, excellent defender. Shooting is not one of the things he does well. But he is a good player.

This is how I see it too. Solid player you want on the floor, but typically not the one you want taking the shot at the end. Don’t mean that as a slam, everyone has a role.

[UrinalCake]

UNC this season reminds me a bit of Duke in 2015-2016. Coming off a title and having to restock. Two great players (Allen/Ingram vs. Berry/Maye) and a bunch of role players around them, with no inside presence. If everyone gets hot from three they can theoretically beat anyone, but fundamentally they are flawed.

That Duke team wound up as a 4 seed and lost to the 1 seed in the Sweet 16. That's about my expectation for UNC this season.

[JasonEvans]

I disagree. Clemson, now without their best player, should be the underdog in that game. Even at home. If Clemson still had Grantham? They would be favored.

Sorry, CDu... Clemson opened as a 1.5 point favorite in Vegas.

[curtis325]

Sorry, CDu... Clemson opened as a 1.5 point favorite in Vegas.

UNCheat may very well win the game, but my point was simply that a Klempsum win would not be an upset or a stolen win.

[CDu]

Sorry, CDu... Clemson opened as a 1.5 point favorite in Vegas.

Don’t particularly care what Vegas’ line is. This is one of those cases where an injury makes analysis hard. For example, TRank has Clemson a 3pt favorite. But that is based on season-long stats. They simply haven’t played enough games without Grantham to have the ratings recalibrated.

What exactly has Clemson done without their best player to make one think they should be favored in this one?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Don’t particularly care what Vegas’ line is. This is one of those cases where an injury makes analysis hard. For example, TRank has Clemson a 3pt favorite. But that is based on season-long stats. They simply haven’t played enough games without Grantham to have the ratings recalibrated.

What exactly has Clemson done without their best player to make one think they should be favored in this one?

Maybe it is more about what UNC has done recently...