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Udaman
10-24-2007, 11:28 AM
So I don't know what it was about the last three seasons, but something was just missing for me. Yeah, I still watched all the games. Yeah, I still pulled for them. But deep down inside, I just somehow knew that we wouldn't go far. I'm not sure if it was frustration that Coach K didn't develop a bench the last two years of JJ (when each year he swore that he would), or that I felt we were underachieving, or because McRoberts really rubbed me the wrong way, whatever. Fact is, something was missing.

But heading into this year, I am really stoked. I think this team should and will surprise. I like the youth. I like the athleticism. I like that people will be counting us out a little.

I'm hopeful as well that we will actually go 8-9 deep this year, because when you think about it, we could have a great starting 5 with just our Sophs and Freshman (Scheyer, Thomas, Zoubek, Singler, Smith) and our upperclassmen (Henderson, McClure, Nelson, Paulus and Pocious). Heck, I would put both of those teams in the preseason top 25. We should run teams into the ground. We have good outside shooters and should actually be a solid rebounding team.

Things could change, but I'm really high on this team, and really can't wait for the schedule to begin.

Saratoga2
10-24-2007, 12:16 PM
So I don't know what it was about the last three seasons, but something was just missing for me. Yeah, I still watched all the games. Yeah, I still pulled for them. But deep down inside, I just somehow knew that we wouldn't go far. I'm not sure if it was frustration that Coach K didn't develop a bench the last two years of JJ (when each year he swore that he would), or that I felt we were underachieving, or because McRoberts really rubbed me the wrong way, whatever. Fact is, something was missing.

But heading into this year, I am really stoked. I think this team should and will surprise. I like the youth. I like the athleticism. I like that people will be counting us out a little.

I'm hopeful as well that we will actually go 8-9 deep this year, because when you think about it, we could have a great starting 5 with just our Sophs and Freshman (Scheyer, Thomas, Zoubek, Singler, Smith) and our upperclassmen (Henderson, McClure, Nelson, Paulus and Pocious). Heck, I would put both of those teams in the preseason top 25. We should run teams into the ground. We have good outside shooters and should actually be a solid rebounding team.

Things could change, but I'm really high on this team, and really can't wait for the schedule to begin.

I look forward to play but without the same confidence or expectations as perhaps you have. It will be great to see the kids play again. The strengths are they have matured a little, but they definitely have weaknesses and unknowns. I will be happily surprised if the team is stronger this year.

Troublemaker
10-24-2007, 12:56 PM
If you're not pumped this time of season, you're not a basketball fan. Glad to see you're a basketball fan again.

As we've discussed a million times, Coach K had little opportunity to "go deep" the past few seasons due to some combination of injuries, transfers, youth, Duke's systems being difficult to learn, and the overratedness of certain players vis a vis their high school rankings. With good health, an additional year of experience, and (hopefully) the freshmen being better than expectations this time around (I have a good feeling about this), Duke should be deep this season. Not that depth really means all that much. What the team needs to do is establish offense and defense that are efficient, and having depth is ony a small part of that.

jimsumner
10-24-2007, 01:11 PM
"we could have a great starting 5 with just our Sophs and Freshman (Scheyer, Thomas, Zoubek, Singler, Smith) and our upperclassmen (Henderson, McClure, Nelson, Paulus and Pocious)"

Hopefully, Duke will see Henderson as an upperclassman next season.

dukelifer
10-24-2007, 01:24 PM
So I don't know what it was about the last three seasons, but something was just missing for me. Yeah, I still watched all the games. Yeah, I still pulled for them. But deep down inside, I just somehow knew that we wouldn't go far. I'm not sure if it was frustration that Coach K didn't develop a bench the last two years of JJ (when each year he swore that he would), or that I felt we were underachieving, or because McRoberts really rubbed me the wrong way, whatever. Fact is, something was missing.

But heading into this year, I am really stoked. I think this team should and will surprise. I like the youth. I like the athleticism. I like that people will be counting us out a little.

I'm hopeful as well that we will actually go 8-9 deep this year, because when you think about it, we could have a great starting 5 with just our Sophs and Freshman (Scheyer, Thomas, Zoubek, Singler, Smith) and our upperclassmen (Henderson, McClure, Nelson, Paulus and Pocious). Heck, I would put both of those teams in the preseason top 25. We should run teams into the ground. We have good outside shooters and should actually be a solid rebounding team.

Things could change, but I'm really high on this team, and really can't wait for the schedule to begin.

I expect this to be a much better offensive team than last year- there are shooters and scorers and tough machups. I am a bit concerned about rebounding on the defensive end and managing big teams. I expect Duke can turn some team over and pressure the ball - but someone needs to be a rebounding machine or the fundamentals of team rebounding must really improve. The problem that I expect is lots of second shots by other teams- and if that becomes a problem- then there will be little margin for victory. So this team will likely be able to score- but the inside D and rebounding is the big unknown. Unfortunately, some of this cannot be simulated in practice and so they will need to learn on the fly.

VaDukie
10-24-2007, 01:39 PM
I expect this to be a much better offensive team than last year- there are shooters and scorers and tough machups. I am a bit concerned about rebounding on the defensive end and managing big teams. I expect Duke can turn some team over and pressure the ball - but someone needs to be a rebounding machine or the fundamentals of team rebounding must really improve. The problem that I expect is lots of second shots by other teams- and if that becomes a problem- then there will be little margin for victory. So this team will likely be able to score- but the inside D and rebounding is the big unknown. Unfortunately, some of this cannot be simulated in practice and so they will need to learn on the fly.

I agree with your general concern about defensive rebounding, but K pointed out an interesting point that may alleviate those concerns. He specifically singled out Henderson and Nelson as two guys that should be able to rebound very well (Nelson for his power forward-esque body, Henderson for his extraordinary athleticism) and then turn around and start fast breaks.

We will obviously have our hands full against the likes of UNC and NC State, but I think that we'll be able to rebound well beyond our size. Additionally, whereas in past years we let Shelden to the bulk of the rebounding and thus had team numbers drop as a result, having 5 guys committed to the boards can be better in some cases.

Certainly still a problem, but one that we have interesting ways of taking care of.

Troublemaker
10-24-2007, 01:56 PM
Will we get our turnovers back?

Good points here. Another way to combat defensive rebounding issues is to force turnovers. Historically under Coach K, we've been a team that traded rebounds for turnovers. Unfortunately, our recent teams have seemed to lose that ability to create turnovers. I checked some stats in the offseason, and it turns out the past 3 Duke teams (05,06,07) were 3 of the bottom 5 Duke teams in the K era at forcing turnovers (and I'm a kenpom nerd, so yes, I'm talking turnovers forced PER POSSESSION, not per game, which doesn't take into account pace). And fyi, the worst Duke team in the K era at forcing turnovers was our '95 team.

Bottom line, we need to regain our identity of forcing turnovers. The past 3 seasons, we've been an unathletic team that doesn't threaten opponents defensively like the classic Duke teams did. With the addition of athletic guys like Smith and Singler and the (hopeful) emergence of guys like Henderson and Thomas, I think we will get our turnovers back this season.

throatybeard
10-24-2007, 02:06 PM
If you're not pumped this time of season, you're not a basketball fan. Glad to see you're a basketball fan again.

I guess I'm not a basketball fan, then.

I'm more interested in a WS that has none of my teams in it, BC-UVA and UF-UGA this weekend than I am in Duke MBB games that aren't taking place yet.

mgtr
10-24-2007, 02:13 PM
Well, sir, I am pumped. I am, possibly, even over-inflated, and need a few games to occur to let out a little air. Play ball!

captmojo
10-24-2007, 02:14 PM
All the above.

Troublemaker
10-24-2007, 02:22 PM
I guess I'm not a basketball fan, then.

I'm more interested in a WS that has none of my teams in it, BC-UVA and UF-UGA this weekend than I am in Duke MBB games that aren't taking place yet.

I'm more interested in those things as well (and it's BC-VT, not BC-UVA), but I'm ALSO excited for the CBB season to start. And the NBA season as well. I'm not surprised if you aren't, though. As you've made abundantly clear during DBR Chats in the past few seasons, you don't watch the NBA, and as far as CBB is concerned, you feel like the emotional investment in a team of 19-yr-olds isn't worth your time and effort, right? Or at least it's become more and more that way? So no, I'm not surprised that you don't share my excitement for the upcoming basketball season.

Troublemaker
10-24-2007, 02:28 PM
Will we get our turnovers back?

Good points here. Another way to combat defensive rebounding issues is to force turnovers. Historically under Coach K, we've been a team that traded rebounds for turnovers. Unfortunately, our recent teams have seemed to lose that ability to create turnovers. I checked some stats in the offseason, and it turns out the past 3 Duke teams (05,06,07) were 3 of the bottom 5 Duke teams in the K era at forcing turnovers (and I'm a kenpom nerd, so yes, I'm talking turnovers forced PER POSSESSION, not per game, which doesn't take into account pace). And fyi, the worst Duke team in the K era at forcing turnovers was our '95 team.

Bottom line, we need to regain our identity of forcing turnovers. The past 3 seasons, we've been an unathletic team that doesn't threaten opponents defensively like the classic Duke teams did. With the addition of athletic guys like Smith and Singler and the (hopeful) emergence of guys like Henderson and Thomas, I think we will get our turnovers back this season.

I was able to dig up my spreadsheet. Amend that underlined statement to say the past 3 Duke teams (05,06,07) were 3 of the bottom 5 Duke teams of the past 21 seasons at forcing turnovers

The Duke StatsGeek database only goes back to '87 (or it did when I crunched the numbers).

Bob Green
10-25-2007, 06:57 AM
I guess I'm not a basketball fan, then.

I'm more interested in a WS that has none of my teams in it, BC-UVA and UF-UGA this weekend than I am in Duke MBB games that aren't taking place yet.

This is pure heresy as well as uncivil and destructively negative :rolleyes:

Indoor66
10-25-2007, 09:16 AM
This is pure heresy as well as uncivil and destructively negative :rolleyes:

Maybe grounds for an Alpha-Beta in throaty's list? :D

throatybeard
10-25-2007, 11:27 AM
As you've made abundantly clear during DBR Chats in the past few seasons, you don't watch the NBA, and as far as CBB is concerned, you feel like the emotional investment in a team of 19-yr-olds isn't worth your time and effort, right?

Not watching the NBA would qualify of evidence for someone's being a basketball fan, if you ask me. As long as they watch CBB. I like comedy. Thus, I don't watch Gilbert Gottfried.

Olympic Fan
10-25-2007, 03:06 PM
I like comedy. Thus, I don't watch Gilbert Gottfried.

This probably goes off-topic, but I have to ask, did you ever see "The Aristocrats"? It will give you at least a modicum of respect for Mr. Gottfried.

PS I agree with you about the NBA.

Troublemaker
10-25-2007, 03:18 PM
The NBA gets a bad rap

Individual skill and talent aside (even though the pros have way more of both), the NBA has the better basketball product as well. I'm not going to belabor the point because frankly, I think it's obvious to those that watch both. The ball movement and team skills of the good NBA teams are much better than those on the college level. This wasn't always the case but it has been for several years now. And sure, there are still bad NBA teams that can't move the ball correctly, but there are hundreds of unwatchable, ugly college teams as well, no?

And I'm not saying you can't prefer college over pros. There are so many factors that go into that, and I myself prefer college over pros. But one of the reasons I do is certainly not fundamental basketball because the pros have that all over the kids.

Classof06
10-25-2007, 03:38 PM
So I don't know what it was about the last three seasons, but something was just missing for me. Yeah, I still watched all the games. Yeah, I still pulled for them. But deep down inside, I just somehow knew that we wouldn't go far. I'm not sure if it was frustration that Coach K didn't develop a bench the last two years of JJ (when each year he swore that he would), or that I felt we were underachieving, or because McRoberts really rubbed me the wrong way, whatever. Fact is, something was missing.

But heading into this year, I am really stoked. I think this team should and will surprise. I like the youth. I like the athleticism. I like that people will be counting us out a little.

I'm hopeful as well that we will actually go 8-9 deep this year, because when you think about it, we could have a great starting 5 with just our Sophs and Freshman (Scheyer, Thomas, Zoubek, Singler, Smith) and our upperclassmen (Henderson, McClure, Nelson, Paulus and Pocious). Heck, I would put both of those teams in the preseason top 25. We should run teams into the ground. We have good outside shooters and should actually be a solid rebounding team.

Things could change, but I'm really high on this team, and really can't wait for the schedule to begin.


I'll echo this sentiment. I'll wait to see them play, but at this point, I have a quiet confidence that this team is going to be good. Last year, we weren't really that bad (on D at least), but our sluggish offense prevented us from closing out opponents, and thus we lost close games we should have won.

Simply put, with the mesh of new and developing personnel, and a re-commitment to transition basketball, this team is going to be good. I can't wait..

mgtr
10-25-2007, 08:31 PM
The NBA gets a bad rap

Individual skill and talent aside (even though the pros have way more of both), the NBA has the better basketball product as well. I'm not going to belabor the point because frankly, I think it's obvious to those that watch both.

Wow! I used to watch the NBA, and while they do have some good players, on the whole is like watching a team full of OJ Mayos. They are a collection of wannabe stars, with a few real stars thrown in. The USA team this past summer was a far better team than I have seen in typical NBA games.
I would rather watch a fair to good college game than virtually any NBA game.
Of course, I would rather watch Duke wallop UNC than anything else.

throatybeard
10-27-2007, 06:14 AM
And sure, there are still bad NBA teams that can't move the ball correctly, but there are hundreds of unwatchable, ugly college teams as well, no?

True.

Which raises the question, why does basketball put so much more unwatchable product before the public than the other 3 major team sports?