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DangerDevil
01-20-2018, 07:17 PM
He didnít waste any time drawing out the announcement either. Wow!

kshepinthehouse
01-20-2018, 07:17 PM
Wow!

DukeDevil
01-20-2018, 07:18 PM
We look forward to seeing you in blue!!!

moonpie23
01-20-2018, 07:19 PM
i called it in chat this afternoon......did anyone "get it"???


WELCOME ZION!!!!!

WVDUKEFAN
01-20-2018, 07:19 PM
Welcome !

wavedukefan70s
01-20-2018, 07:19 PM
My birthday present I love it.

WVDUKEFAN
01-20-2018, 07:20 PM
i called it in chat this afternoon...did anyone "get it"???


WELCOME ZION!!!!!

Me too! Awesome!

UrinalCake
01-20-2018, 07:20 PM
He played this recruitment so close to the vest. I am shocked! Gonna be an amazing ride again my friends.

BandAlum83
01-20-2018, 07:20 PM
OMG!!!!!

Talk about keeping everything close to the vest!

Welcome, Zion!

hudlow
01-20-2018, 07:21 PM
A scholar and a gentleman, he is...

mph
01-20-2018, 07:22 PM
Just when you think our incredible recruiting run can’t get any better. The top-3 recruits plus the #1PG?!?! Words fail.

Welcome Zion!

drummerdevil
01-20-2018, 07:22 PM
OMG DUKE LETS GO GTHc GTH LGD

WHOneedsSOX
01-20-2018, 07:23 PM
The #5 recruit is still out there... Go get him Coach K! Kidding, kind of.

jv001
01-20-2018, 07:23 PM
Welcome to Duke big guy. Let's rip the heart out of the cheats next year. GoDuke!

DukeFanSince1990
01-20-2018, 07:24 PM
I have never been happier to be wrong.

devildeac
01-20-2018, 07:24 PM
Welcome to Duke big guy. Let's rip the heart out of the cheats next year. GoDuke!

Why wait until next year? :p

UrinalCake
01-20-2018, 07:24 PM
The UNC fans were right, Zion will be going to Chapel Hill... in a dark blue uniform, to dunk all over them!

drummerdevil
01-20-2018, 07:24 PM
Why wait until next year? :p

We just didnít wait until next year

BigZ
01-20-2018, 07:25 PM
I'm not Jewish but I'm now a Zionist

stickdog
01-20-2018, 07:25 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh5vMZjbO-I

bigperm13
01-20-2018, 07:26 PM
But there was no way he was coming here - lolololol. This is amazing.

BigZ
01-20-2018, 07:26 PM
Go checkout the Tar Heel boards , they are calling for a FBI investigation

duke4ever19
01-20-2018, 07:27 PM
I'm not Jewish but I'm now a Zionist

Beautiful work.

G man
01-20-2018, 07:27 PM
What just happened????? Awesome

WHOneedsSOX
01-20-2018, 07:28 PM
Seems like every year we say Coach K has signed the greatest class ever. I expect nothing less than #1-4 for 2019.

DangerDevil
01-20-2018, 07:31 PM
Seems like every year we say Coach K has signed the greatest class ever. I expect nothing less than #1-4 for 2019.

If only the recruiting game wouldnít have passed Coach K by when he became the Olympic Coach.

DukeBlue666s
01-20-2018, 07:32 PM
The RR meltdown is a thing of beauty ... again!

DavidBenAkiva
01-20-2018, 07:33 PM
I don't know what to do with my hands!?!?!?!

gam7
01-20-2018, 07:33 PM
I'm not Jewish but I'm now a Zionist

Maybe he'll return the favor and part the seas for Moses (Brown)?

Consensus top player in Class of 2021 is also named Zion.

BandAlum83
01-20-2018, 07:34 PM
The UNC fans were right, Zion will be going to Chapel Hill... in a dark blue uniform, to dunk all over them!

Yes... hopefully not the black uniform!

I have a prediction:

Coach K will NOT be announcing his retirement after this season.

Troublemaker
01-20-2018, 07:34 PM
Zion's high school stats (MaxPreps) (http://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/zion-williamson/KyC06n7eEeS00gAmVebEWg/gendersport/basketball-stats.htm)

devildeac
01-20-2018, 07:34 PM
I don't know what to do with my hands!?!?!?!

Start a minutes thread for the 2018-19 season?

:rolleyes:

duke2x
01-20-2018, 07:35 PM
I am glad to be wrong. Clemson will get another chance in Chapel Hill next year.

Look out, Minneapolis, here come the Blue Devils!

G man
01-20-2018, 07:36 PM
I bet this team runs a lot next year

mgtr
01-20-2018, 07:36 PM
This is just amazing. Cannot imagine how things could get better. Dukies will dominate the NBA. Coach will never get to retire!

UrinalCake
01-20-2018, 07:37 PM
Go checkout the Tar Heel boards , they are calling for a FBI investigation

You mean like the one already conducted on the guy they just landed (Nassir Little)? LOLOL.

Reddevil
01-20-2018, 07:40 PM
I have not been this surprised since...well, last weekend's end of the Vikings, Saints game. Anyway, giddy now...Tinkerbell II?

devildeac
01-20-2018, 07:41 PM
You mean like the one already conducted on the guy they just landed (Nassir Little)? LOLOL.

Investigation already done. Richardjackson199 has posted the transcripts/interviews. LOL.

miramar
01-20-2018, 07:41 PM
Four McDonald's All Americans. We are all beyond spoiled, but of course most teams don't get any.

MChambers
01-20-2018, 07:41 PM
I canít believe it. Just wow!

devildeac
01-20-2018, 07:43 PM
Four McDonald's All Americans. We are all beyond spoiled, but of course most teams don't get any.

Some teams just go to McDonald's.

dukelion
01-20-2018, 07:43 PM
Gotta admit.....when I first saw him as a recruit and realized Duke was a bit of a long shot I forced myself to not watch his highlights so that I wouldn't be bitter when we didn't get him.

But now......man.......next year is gonna be just as wild as this year....maybe even more.

Starting 5:
Jones
Barret
Reddish
Zion
Bolden

Bench:
DeLaurier
Vrank
Goldwire
O'Connell

Troublemaker
01-20-2018, 07:44 PM
One way-too-early stab at it. I'm a fan of JRob, but I figure most people will just give all of his minutes to Javin.



32
Fr TreJones

So Goldwire




34
Fr Barrett
24
So O'Connell




34
Fr Reddish

Jr White




32
Fr Williamson
8
rJr Robinson




20
Jr Bolden
16
Jr DeLaurier

Sr Vrankovic

nmduke2001
01-20-2018, 07:45 PM
HahahahahahahaHahahahahahahaHahahahahahahaHahahaha hahahaHahahahahahahaHahahahahahaha

All you can do is laugh.

MChambers
01-20-2018, 07:46 PM
If only the recruiting game wouldnít have passed Coach K by when he became the Olympic Coach.
Please call John Feinstein to discuss!

JD for Three!
01-20-2018, 07:47 PM
How incredible! My high school senior, who is the basis of my user name, starts college in the fall. Not at Duke. She just asked me if we really had #1, 2 and three next year and how we did it. ďCoach KĒwas my response.

What a program!

MChambers
01-20-2018, 07:47 PM
Some teams just go to McDonald's.
If they let PJ Hairston pick.

heyman25
01-20-2018, 07:51 PM
Four McDonald's All Americans. We are all beyond spoiled, but of course most teams don't get any. Our program continues to BLOW MY MIND! The recruiting to Duke has just been fantastic for such a long time. Bagley III,Carter, Du Val and Trent Jr.Now we are getting a Michael Jordan 2.0 in Barrett, Tre Jones, Cameron Reddish and Zion Williamson. DeLaurier, Bolden, O Connell, White ,Vrankovic ,Robinson ,Goldwire returning. Jordan Tucker can't blame him for transfer. Duke is loaded for 2018-19.

Tripping William
01-20-2018, 07:54 PM
I now have Carolina getting also sorts of preseason #1 votes (point guard or no point guard). :rolleyes:

DavidBenAkiva
01-20-2018, 07:54 PM
Zion's high school stats (MaxPreps) (http://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/zion-williamson/KyC06n7eEeS00gAmVebEWg/gendersport/basketball-stats.htm)

Thanks for posting these stats. I did watch a little of his game at the Hoop Hall Classic last week. He is not a guy that wants to shoot the 3 a lot, but shooting 30% from that range his sophomore and junior year gives some hope. He IS a big kid and far more skilled that his reputation. The kid can lead the break, loves to pass, and play help defense. He's clearly a talented player and not just an athletic freak. Also, he is an athletic freak. Wowowowowow.

dukelifer
01-20-2018, 07:55 PM
I think these kids want a chance to be coached by a legend. I am stunned.

MarkD83
01-20-2018, 07:56 PM
Our program continues to BLOW MY MIND! The recruiting to Duke has just been fantastic for such a long time. Bagley III,Carter, Du Val and Trent Jr.Now we are getting a Michael Jordan 2.0 in Barrett, Tre Jones, Cameron Reddish and Zion Williamson. DeLaurier Bolden, O Connell White Vrancovic Robinson Goldwire returning. Jordan Tucker can't blame him for transfer. Duke is loaded for 2018-19.

But of course next year's team will have some inexplicable early season road loss and we will start a thread asking why does Coach K keep recruiting one and dones....
(Only 1/2 kidding).

What was very interesting was Zion's reference to the Brotherhood. This is some awesome marketing that is not related just to Coach K being at Duke.

weezie
01-20-2018, 07:59 PM
didn't see that one coming!!!

WHOneedsSOX
01-20-2018, 08:00 PM
It'll be interesting to see how Duke transforms his body. I imagine he won't be able to play at that weight in college. Could be possible he gets even more explosive.

kmspeaks
01-20-2018, 08:07 PM
Go checkout the Tar Heel boards , they are calling for a FBI investigation

@ICMeltdown (https://twitter.com/ICMeltdown) on twitter is one of my favorite follows. He pulls some of the more laugh worthy posts if you don't want to sully your hands by actually visiting cheater boards.

duketaylor
01-20-2018, 08:07 PM
some didn't think K coaching the Olympic Team would have any positive ramifications. I thought completely we were out of this equation, but, obviously not. Amazing how many of the top recruits we're getting now. Calipari has to be sweating bullets. And should be.

Dukehky
01-20-2018, 08:08 PM
Don't know how the hell this happened, but damned if I'm not pumped about it.

sagegrouse
01-20-2018, 08:09 PM
This is a little embarrassing, actually.

Lots of pressure on the Duke team for this year and next.

Kindly,
Sage Grouse

OldPhiKap
01-20-2018, 08:10 PM
@ICMeltdown (https://twitter.com/ICMeltdown) on twitter is one of my favorite follows. He pulls some of the more laugh worthy posts if you don't want to sully your hands by actually visiting cheater boards.

Second this.

SkyBrickey
01-20-2018, 08:11 PM
And now for the next surprise - Wendell's mom convinces him to come back one more year to further his education...

Duke95
01-20-2018, 08:12 PM
Ahem. Just saying. :)

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?36480-2018-Basketball-Recruiting-Thread&p=1008418#post1008418

SkyBrickey
01-20-2018, 08:16 PM
Thanks for posting these stats. I did watch a little of his game at the Hoop Hall Classic last week. He is not a guy that wants to shoot the 3 a lot, but shooting 30% from that range his sophomore and junior year gives some hope. He IS a big kid and far more skilled that his reputation. The kid can lead the break, loves to pass, and play help defense. He's clearly a talented player and not just an athletic freak. Also, he is an athletic freak. Wowowowowow.

Most impressive stat to me: he shot 82% on 2-point field goals last season.

Troublemaker
01-20-2018, 08:17 PM
This is a little embarrassing, actually.

Lots of pressure on the Duke team for this year and next.

Kindly,
Sage Grouse

Wouldn't want it any other way, of course.

Pghdukie
01-20-2018, 08:18 PM
My sincere congrats to the coaching/recruiting staff that put in a ton of hard work and effort noto only on Zion, but the entire class. Enjoy a cold one on a job well done !

WHOneedsSOX
01-20-2018, 08:19 PM
This is a little embarrassing, actually.

Lots of pressure on the Duke team for this year and next.

Kindly,
Sage Grouse

Duke always has tons of pressure no matter who's on the team.

duke4ever19
01-20-2018, 08:20 PM
The RR meltdown is a thing of beauty ... again!

I hear InsideCarolina is beautiful right now. I'm going to take a nice evening stroll out that way.

Now, you won't be able to see the stars, but that's because they are all in Durham. :cool:

weezie
01-20-2018, 08:21 PM
@ICMeltdown (https://twitter.com/ICMeltdown) on twitter is one of my favorite follows. He pulls some of the more laugh worthy posts if you don't want to sully your hands by actually visiting cheater boards.

Yes he's fantastic but really, just this once, visiting the weeping, dumbfounded and gap-jawed, pot-walloping sufferers over there provides proof that there's nothing finer than the misery of the hole.

tteettimes
01-20-2018, 08:28 PM
Ahem.....Zionara....😝😝

JD for Three!
01-20-2018, 08:29 PM
This is a little embarrassing, actually.

Lots of pressure on the Duke team for this year and next.

Kindly,
Sage Grouse

Maybe the GOAT is aiming for a shot at Woodenís title record before retiring! Got to keep reloading like this to have a chance!

lotusland
01-20-2018, 08:34 PM
Canít help noticing no Wheat posts for me to scroll past on here.

markbdevil
01-20-2018, 08:39 PM
So what number will be Ďunretiredí for Zion? His HS number 12 is Javinís. :)

yancem
01-20-2018, 08:50 PM
And now for the next surprise - Wendell's mom convinces him to come back one more year to further his education...

At this point very little could surprise me. But seriously, a lineup of Jones, Barrett, Reddish, Zion and Carter should never lose unless their playing Golden State!!!

pamtar
01-20-2018, 09:01 PM
If they let PJ Hairston pick.

Or Sean May.

Billy Dat
01-20-2018, 09:11 PM
This one is truly shocking and surprising. K will not go gentle into that good night. Keep burning it up, Big Mike! I think Duke Lifer had a great point about these kids wanting to play for the GOAT, and the post-FIBA-K only wants the most elite talent in his final years. Freeze these moments people - we are a long way from Pigeon Skype-gate.

Zion, welcome to the family.

Mr7718
01-20-2018, 09:21 PM
Completely taken by surprise by this news. Welcome to Duke Zion!
Fantastic work by all who recruited him.

Trinity Ď88
Duke Law Ď99

UrinalCake
01-20-2018, 09:24 PM
Does anybody remember the interview from a few months ago where Williamson said that Coach K told him he envisioned using him like he used LeBron in the Olympics, all over the court with the offense running through him? At the time I wondered how that would work, and given the plethora of scoring options around him I am still curious to see how K structures this offense. I still think a lineup of Zion at the 5 surrounded by 4 shooters could be deadly (the three other freshmen plus OíConnell or Trent if he returns).

With OíConnell I think weíll have an amazing starting 5 + 1, but much like this season there will be a really steep dropoff when we go further into the bench. Also the most obvious question will be where the leadership will come from.

But those are concerns for another day. Today we must celebrate yet another recruiting coup.

miramar
01-20-2018, 09:28 PM
some didn't think K coaching the Olympic Team would have any positive ramifications. I thought completely we were out of this equation, but, obviously not. Amazing how many of the top recruits we're getting now. Calipari has to be sweating bullets. And should be.

A good number of people seemed to think that the Olympic Team would take too much of his time and that summer recruiting would suffer. The final proof was that Roy got that all-world player Harrison Barnes and all Coach K could get was Kyrie Irving.

I still remember some major pre-season magazine that had an article with an image of ol' Roy as Ali and Coach K knocked out on the canvas as Sonny Liston. The author spent much of the article quoting some anonymous expert who insisted that Coach K was past his prime and that he would never be able to recruit well enough to keep up with UNC.

The moral of this story is that if a guy has no gray hair then by definition he's not past his prime.

BigZ
01-20-2018, 09:31 PM
O/U on Cal heading to NBA?

moonpie23
01-20-2018, 09:33 PM
O/U on Cal heading to NBA?

2 years...


i'll go "under"

Furniture
01-20-2018, 09:36 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5B8ggybE3R8

Here is his announcement. Who doesn’t get a lump in his/her throat? This kid is Duke through and through.

follow up questions:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ACgeqMSLzL0

MaxAMillion
01-20-2018, 09:53 PM
Does anybody remember the interview from a few months ago where Williamson said that Coach K told him he envisioned using him like he used LeBron in the Olympics, all over the court with the offense running through him? At the time I wondered how that would work, and given the plethora of scoring options around him I am still curious to see how K structures this offense. I still think a lineup of Zion at the 5 surrounded by 4 shooters could be deadly (the three other freshmen plus OíConnell or Trent if he returns).

With OíConnell I think weíll have an amazing starting 5 + 1, but much like this season there will be a really steep dropoff when we go further into the bench. Also the most obvious question will be where the leadership will come from.

But those are concerns for another day. Today we must celebrate yet another recruiting coup.


That lineup would get beat up inside. People get excited about the recruiting rankings, but their is a practical angle to all this. That team has to go up against juniors and seniors inside. I think it is pretty unrealistic to expect these freshmen wing players to rebound and defend consistently against players who will be taller and more experienced. K better hope Bolden stays and transforms himself into a quality college big man on both ends of the floor.

dukelifer
01-20-2018, 09:58 PM
That lineup would get beat up inside. People get excited about the recruiting rankings, but their is a practical angle to all this. That team has to go up against juniors and seniors inside. I think it is pretty unrealistic to expect these freshmen wing players to rebound and defend consistently against players who will be taller and more experienced. K better hope Bolden stays and transforms himself into a quality college big man on both ends of the floor.

Unfortunately Duke will lose most everyone this year- so if you are going to have Freshman- get good ones. It will be another year of spectacular moments and frustrating lapses.

UrinalCake
01-20-2018, 10:08 PM
It will be another year of spectacular moments and frustrating lapses.

Totally agree to that. I have no doubt that we will lose one or more head scratchers early in the season and fans will melt down, wondering why we still recruit one and doneís. Iíve come to expect the ups and downs within each season and will enjoy the ride.

UrinalCake
01-20-2018, 10:14 PM
That lineup would get beat up inside.

Itís hard for me to imagine a 272lb dude getting beat up inside, but I get that heís undersized in terms of guarding opposing centers. I still think weíll see that death lineup though, with the hope of forcing opponents to adjust. We would be playing four guys who are between 6í6 - 6í8 plus Jones who is listed at 6í2, allowing us to basically switch everything on defense. Itís the type of lineup K dreams about.

Duke76
01-20-2018, 10:38 PM
Duke Kentucky, can't wait for that matchup

G man
01-20-2018, 10:51 PM
Duke Kentucky, can't wait for that matchup

Kentucky is in a tight spot recruiting now as well. Lol doesn't hurt my feelings.

kAzE
01-20-2018, 11:01 PM
I was at a wedding and didnít find out until a friend texted me... this is absolutely shocking, and I cannot wait to completely crush UK in the champions classic next year MWAHAHA :D

InSpades
01-20-2018, 11:53 PM
I hope we aren't as bad as other fan boards when we miss out on a recruit but I honestly can't remember the last time we missed on a recruit so I'm not sure :).

Welcome to Duke Zion!

JBDuke
01-21-2018, 12:00 AM
I hope we aren't as bad as other fan boards when we miss out on a recruit but I honestly can't remember the last time we missed on a recruit so I'm not sure :).

Welcome to Duke Zion!

You must not have been around for the Harrison Barnes decision.

Bay Area Duke Fan
01-21-2018, 12:26 AM
I hope we aren't as bad as other fan boards when we miss out on a recruit but I honestly can't remember the last time we missed on a recruit so I'm not sure :)!

Kevin Knox, last year.

DukeDevil
01-21-2018, 02:16 AM
I went to the UNC message boards and chuckled. Saw someone went to the UK message boards and saw the same. Went to the Clemson message boards and wow...they were so...polite. Like disappointed but effusive in wishing him the best. Much respect Clemson fans.

Doria
01-21-2018, 02:32 AM
I was playing a war game online (yes, very highbrow), so I totally missed this spectacular news.

Welcome, Indeed. Looking forward to seeing you play and grow at Duke!

BD80
01-21-2018, 04:10 AM
Some teams just go to McDonald's.


If they let PJ Hairston pick.


Or Sean May.

Hairston goes to McDonald's to eat.

Sean May eats McDonald's.


Zion comes to the promised land. Welcome!

Let me get this straight, there are 3 recruits at the very top of the class, a step or two above the rest, and all three are coming to Duke? With a top 10 recruit, #1 PG, who has been steadily marching up the rankings?

Sounds like a pretty good recruiting class.

It is being said that no school has ever (in modern era) landed the top 3 recruits.

Dukeblue91
01-21-2018, 06:03 AM
I'm totally shocked in a good way that is.
I didn't see that coming at all.
Welcome to the brotherhood at Duke Zion.

johnb
01-21-2018, 06:58 AM
That lineup would get beat up inside....

I agree that playing Zion at center probably won't work against elite teams.

DeLaurier will be back. Bolden will probably be back. And Vrank (or maybe Robinson) may be ready to pull a Plumlee or Zoubek and come into his own. These guys won't be Carter/Bagley, but they'll be as good as most post players they'll face. If they combine for a reasonable interior presence, it's safe to say that we should be okay.

dukelifer
01-21-2018, 07:19 AM
I agree that playing Zion at center probably won't work against elite teams.

DeLaurier will be back. Bolden will probably be back. And Vrank (or maybe Robinson) may be ready to pull a Plumlee or Zoubek and come into his own. These guys won't be Carter/Bagley, but they'll be as good as most post players they'll face. If they combine for a reasonable interior presence, it's safe to say that we should be okay.

The kid is impressively strong, takes up a lot of space and has an explosive jump. I imagine he can hold his own down low. Not sure how many elite bigs are out there anyway. That said Duke can play Javin down low with those wings. It will be a fun, alarmingly athletic team to watch.

WVDUKEFAN
01-21-2018, 07:52 AM
Barrett is going to be a matchup nightmare for whoever we play. He's more of a SF/PF hybrid imo. He's versatile to say the least. Zion kind of reminds me of Justice Winslow, but with the physique of an Elton Brand. Very athletic as well, but not a mid range threat. Reddish is a forward with guard skills. He can shoot. Add Mr. Jones to the mix to run the point, along with either Alex OConnell or Gary Trent as your shooting guard and we spread the floor. It will be a different look for sure.

DukeandMdFan
01-21-2018, 08:21 AM
You must not have been around for the Harrison Barnes decision.

The announcement by Harrison Barnes was painful and memorable.

That was in Nov 2009.

OldPhiKap
01-21-2018, 08:29 AM
The announcement by Harrison Barnes was painful and memorable.

That was in Nov 2009.

Has it ended yet?

budwom
01-21-2018, 08:30 AM
Javin and Bolden become important recruits now....we'll need their size and experience...

kmspeaks
01-21-2018, 08:35 AM
Yes he's fantastic but really, just this once, visiting the weeping, dumbfounded and gap-jawed, pot-walloping sufferers over there provides proof that there's nothing finer than the misery of the hole.

You are correct, it's fabulous over there. I think my favorite is all the whining about how The Brotherhood is some fake media circus but Carolina basketball is a real family where former players come back to play pick up during the summer.

You have to appreciate the next level cognitive dissonance of fans who believe everyone cheats but theirs is the only program that calls their team a family or has former players return.

Wheat/"/"/"
01-21-2018, 08:37 AM
When coach K got involved with coaching USA basketball, and made the decision to go the OAD route, his recruiting went to another level. I was one who didn't think it would make that much difference, but it's looking like I was wrong. For these definite one and done kids, they want to play for him and get access to his NBA connections. The ACC's TV exposure and a great atmosphere in Cameron help as well.

It sort of is what it is for other teams. Certainly can't blame the kid, who among us with that talent and millions of dollars in our future wouldn't do the same? He seems like a good kid in interviews

The good news for us rivals in all this is Duke still has to play the games. All star type teams aren't awarded victories, they have to be earned. Last year should have taught some of you guys that.

We saw great expectations last year, and this year too. Now, Duke is becoming burdened by the weight of even greater expectations on these freshmen. It's anything less than a championship will be failure, territory.
And the expectations will only mount, the whispers/second guessing will grow louder, especially if Duke fails to win the ACC or at least get to a final four this season. Fans, yours and other teams fans, can be unrealistic.

It should be a fun ride the next few years either way. These kids have great talent and are fun to watch.

Bull City Proud
01-21-2018, 08:37 AM
Maybe he'll return the favor and part the seas for Moses (Brown)?

Consensus top player in Class of 2021 is also named Zion.

We need Brown to make a complete five man lineup.

WillJ
01-21-2018, 08:39 AM
It should be a fun ride the next few years either way. These kids have great talent and are fun to watch.

It really is a shame that we still have to play the games:).

OldPhiKap
01-21-2018, 08:42 AM
All star type teams aren't awarded victories, they have to be earned. Last year should have taught some of you guys that.

We saw great expectations last year, and this year too. Now, Duke is becoming burdened by the weight of even greater expectations on these freshmen. It's anything less than a championship will be failure, territory.
And the expectations will only mount, the whispers/second guessing will grow louder, especially if Duke fails to win the ACC or at least get to a final four this season. Fans, yours and other teams fans, can be unrealistic.


True. We should probably do a Dave Chappelle and pull the plug on the whole thing.

Cold water and Sunday mornings always bring me down anyway.

budwom
01-21-2018, 08:45 AM
Javin is not a 5,we need a 5 and Bolden hasnít got any better at all. We need a big for this recruiting class.

very unlikely to happen, so Bolden is the best option by far

OldPhiKap
01-21-2018, 08:50 AM
very unlikely to happen, so Bolden is the best option by far

If Bolden comes back, we will have a ridiculous front court. My personal hope is that he does. I think the young man has real potential and wish his injuries had not interfered a bit with his development.

For now, Iíll enjoy this year and let the Tao take care of the rest.

Bull City Proud
01-21-2018, 08:53 AM
very unlikely to happen, so Bolden is the best option by far

Moses Brown would be a good option prolly stay 3 years for us.

22JumpShots
01-21-2018, 09:00 AM
Always thought it'd be Duke, Clemson, or UK. As one poster touched earlier...that interview where Zion mentions K wanting to treat him like Lebron...then it became Duke and (the hometown hero story)...kind of like Harry G. It was always Duke, Wake (home town hero), and UK, but mostly Duke and (home town hero).

Once the mom story came out that she liked Duke...it was over in my mind. I would have been shocked if he chose anyone other than Duke.

I used to share my "predictions" when I was a member of Duke 247 but would get CRUCIFIED by members of the board. I was one of the rare people that called Bolden a blue devil months before he committed. Was told I was stupid. Oh well, so far that hasn't work out for anyone.

________________________________________

Moving FWD, I see people saying Trent and Bolden are gone next year. I think Trent's situation is almost an exact mimic of Tyus. We win it all, or maybe just Final Four - Trent leaves. We don't, he stays. Bolden stays unless he transfers, which why would he unless we get another top 10 recruit center. Duval in my opinion is similar to Tyus. If we are anything short of a spectacular finish, I think he stays as well.

Why not (w/ some interchangeability) -

Soph Duval / Fresh - Tre Jones
Fresh RJ Barrett / Soph O'Connell
Fresh Cam Reddish
Fresh Zion / Junior Javin
Junior Bolden / Junior - Vrank

Isn't Tre a natural combo guard anyhow?

Dr. Rosenrosen
01-21-2018, 09:13 AM
We saw great expectations last year, and this year too. Now, Duke is becoming burdened by the weight of even greater expectations on these freshmen. It's anything less than a championship will be failure, territory.
And the expectations will only mount, the whispers/second guessing will grow louder, especially if Duke fails to win the ACC or at least get to a final four this season. Fans, yours and other teams fans, can be unrealistic.

Winners relish high expectations and tough challenges like these.

But I do love seeing the Duke haters begin working immediately to the lay the foundation for a championship-or-bust storyline with the 2018 recruiting class and begin hoping and praying for an outcome that will ease the pain of their perpetual self loathing.

dukelifer
01-21-2018, 09:19 AM
When coach K got involved with coaching USA basketball, and made the decision to go the OAD route, his recruiting went to another level. I was one who didn't think it would make that much difference, but it's looking like I was wrong. For these definite one and done kids, they want to play for him and get access to his NBA connections. The ACC's TV exposure and a great atmosphere in Cameron help as well.

It sort of is what it is for other teams. Certainly can't blame the kid, who among us with that talent and millions of dollars in our future wouldn't do the same? He seems like a good kid in interviews

The good news for us rivals in all this is Duke still has to play the games. All star type teams aren't awarded victories, they have to be earned. Last year should have taught some of you guys that.

We saw great expectations last year, and this year too. Now, Duke is becoming burdened by the weight of even greater expectations on these freshmen. It's anything less than a championship will be failure, territory.
And the expectations will only mount, the whispers/second guessing will grow louder, especially if Duke fails to win the ACC or at least get to a final four this season. Fans, yours and other teams fans, can be unrealistic.

It should be a fun ride the next few years either way. These kids have great talent and are fun to watch.
This was the state of UNC basketball for years. The best talent- and high expectations. Duke fans have high expectations but that doesnít change because of the recruiting class. The same is true for UNC.

arnie
01-21-2018, 09:26 AM
Always thought it'd be Duke, Clemson, or UK. As one poster touched earlier...that interview where Zion mentions K wanting to treat him like Lebron...then it became Duke and (the hometown hero story)...kind of like Harry G. It was always Duke, Wake (home town hero), and UK, but mostly Duke and (home town hero).

Once the mom story came out that she liked Duke...it was over in my mind. I would have been shocked if he chose anyone other than Duke.

I used to share my "predictions" when I was a member of Duke 247 but would get CRUCIFIED by members of the board. I was one of the rare people that called Bolden a blue devil months before he committed. Was told I was stupid. Oh well, so far that hasn't work out for anyone.

________________________________________

Moving FWD, I see people saying Trent and Bolden are gone next year. I think Trent's situation is almost an exact mimic of Tyus. We win it all, or maybe just Final Four - Trent leaves. We don't, he stays. Bolden stays unless he transfers, which why would he unless we get another top 10 recruit center. Duval in my opinion is similar to Tyus. If we are anything short of a spectacular finish, I think he stays as well.

Why not (w/ some interchangeability) -

Soph Duval / Fresh - Tre Jones
Fresh RJ Barrett / Soph O'Connell
Fresh Cam Reddish
Fresh Zion / Junior Javin
Junior Bolden / Junior - Vrank

Isn't Tre a natural combo guard anyhow?

Now thatís optimistic😀. Iíd love to see Trent & Duval play a second year, but doubt those are their thoughts. Maybe Trent stays, but sort of doubt it. Bolden not staying is illogical to me.

plimnko
01-21-2018, 09:28 AM
i'm going to be honest, i didn't pay that much attention to zion williamson's recruitment. yeah, i marvelled at his highlight reels. i just could not envision his coming to Duke when barrett, reddish, and jones had already committed. i bought the media hype of clemson or kentucky. all i really knew about him was he's a freakish dunker. anyway, after recovering from my complete and utter shock from last night, i watched his entire announcement this morning.....including the questions and answers after his announcement, on youtube. WOW! not only is Duke getting an incredible basketball talent, they are also getting an incredible young man.

dukelifer
01-21-2018, 09:34 AM
Now thatís optimistic😀. Iíd love to see Trent & Duval play a second year, but doubt those are their thoughts. Maybe Trent stays, but sort of doubt it. Bolden not staying is illogical to me.
If Trent continues to shoot like this- he can be a late first rounder. His release at the next level needs to be faster. But he can be a a good second unit guy in time. Duvalís position in the draft is hard to predict- probably late first round and possibly higher as he is hitting the 3 better. I donít see a lottery selection at this stage.

richardjackson199
01-21-2018, 09:43 AM
When coach K got involved with coaching USA basketball, and made the decision to go the OAD route, his recruiting went to another level. I was one who didn't think it would make that much difference, but it's looking like I was wrong. For these definite one and done kids, they want to play for him and get access to his NBA connections. The ACC's TV exposure and a great atmosphere in Cameron help as well.

It sort of is what it is for other teams. Certainly can't blame the kid, who among us with that talent and millions of dollars in our future wouldn't do the same? He seems like a good kid in interviews

The good news for us rivals in all this is Duke still has to play the games. All star type teams aren't awarded victories, they have to be earned. Last year should have taught some of you guys that.

...


Yep Duke still has to play the games. Which is why you'll just keep having to send Jason those pies.

In terms of expectations, K said it best after we lost at NC State this year. He said we'll have adversity, we'll have injuries, and we'll have losses. Those things are inevitable, but Duke works on getting better and making the most of the ride. And it's a hell of a fun ride. K is a master - he can handle the expectations. But over at IC just keep spouting that narrative that anything less than a natty undefeated season is a bust.

Last year had highs and lows, but beating up on the cheats 2/3 games including a heart breaking comeback in the ACC tourney was fun. Our run to win the ACC Championship in 4 games was awesome. Yes we had a tough draw playing a very tough SC team in SC in an arena 90% full of SC and Cheat fans. They hit everything in the 2nd half and we lost. It happens. Last year the Cheats won a natty. Things worked out for them. In 2015 Duke won a Natty in a year when Kentucky was supposedly invincible and we were underdogs to Wisconsin.

Duke is having an incredibly fun ride, and we'll continue to enjoy it. It won't be perfect, and in a single elimination tournament no final fours are guaranteed. The Cheats recruiting has fallen off after being exposed as cheaters. They deserve that, and they deserved much more. But it is what it is. We'll just keep beating them down.

53n206
01-21-2018, 09:44 AM
I enjoy Wheat's posts. We must have counterpoint. Without it we might as well apply for Cabinet positions.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-21-2018, 09:51 AM
I enjoy Wheat's posts. We must have counterpoint. Without it we might as well apply for Cabinet positions.

I see what you did there...

duke4ever19
01-21-2018, 10:04 AM
It's anything less than a championship will be failure, territory.
And the expectations will only mount, the whispers/second guessing will grow louder, especially if Duke fails to win the ACC or at least get to a final four this season. Fans, yours and other teams fans, can be unrealistic.

In case you haven't noticed, it's been that way for Duke for a long time. I've seen lots people commenting things like, "If Duke had the best recruiting class this year, how come they lost two games this season? Aren't they supposed to be undefeated?" It's not just winning a championship, it's doing it undefeated.

Over at insidecarolina, they act like the high school recruit rankings are chiseled in stone and Charlton Heston brought them down from the mountain to be the permanent, infallible proof of a player's skill. So, if any Duke player seems to underachieve compared to their high school ranking (a guy like Greg Paulus comes to mind) then Coach K obviously "ruined them."

They are currently doing this exact thing with Bolden . . . you know, the guy who was injured out of the gate last season and dealt with the nagging injury thereafter, thus affecting his ability to start, practice and be affective? But none of that matters because hey, he had an extra star by his name on espn's website. And it can't simply be that the schmoes who rank these kids might not have accurately evaluated Bolden's abilities on the next level. It couldn't possibly be that Bolden might not be quite as good as his espn ranking suggested. They seem to think he should either be in the starting lineup right now or else he's "just another player K ruined." My question is simple: Who is he replacing in the starting lineup? Bagley? Heck no. Carter? Heck no. But if Bolden doesn't start, he was "ruined" by Coach K.

So, a lot of the expectations on Duke come as the result of moronic people from rival fanbases who will grasp at anything to try and ease their fragile psyches when it comes to Duke basketball. They are still peddling the old, tired "Duke players aren't any good in the NBA" line. I didn't even know that was still a thing.

Saratoga2
01-21-2018, 10:09 AM
Great to hear he is coming to Duke. Looking at him play in a recent high school game it is obvuious he is talented and is explosive off the floor. Not sure of his size since I have seen anywhere from 6'6" 272 to 6'8" 210. As with Wendell, we can expect Duke training to make him stronger and probably somewhat lighter and more agile. Is he a Lebron James type player, a Charles Barkley type or just someone totally unique. I'd be interested in heaaring from people who have seen him play in person.

22JumpShots
01-21-2018, 10:14 AM
Now that’s optimistic��.

A bit but truly think about it.

Duke & Clemson

Championship Opportunity = Duke
Exposure = More so to Duke
Coach = Duke
Surrounding Team Mates = Duke
Home Town Hero = Clemson but Duke is a mere 4 hour drive...so who cares.
NBA 1 And Done = Either or...but Duke has more experience as for what to expect, preparations, etc. so Duke

Duke Duke Duke Duke = not sure why anywhere else would make sense here. I will always think of Ben Simmons. What a waste (in my opinion) of a college basketball season. I doubt anyone will remember his season in 5 years. Most don't think about it now.

What I mean by this is why would any elite one and done go to a small time school to be the BMOC? Doesn't really add up. He will have plenty of popularity at Duke and soooooo many more opportunities to go further, establish more NBA connections, and work with people that are more experienced with big time stage games etc.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __

I don't believe Duval and Trent are locked in First Rounders. If they are not First Rounders, I think they come back. I don't think shooting a couple of threes per game is going to move Trent a whole lot. Same with Duval. Just seems they both could use another year to tighten some loose ends. But again, if Duke ends up Final Four or better, they need not stay any longer as they will most likely be first rounders. For now, Trent seems unsure at times, and Duval turns the ball over and does that thing that Cat Barber used to do...which is torpedo into the lane and either pick up a charging foul and fling the ball into the stands behind the backboard. Not all of the time, and they are getting better every game...but just some things I notice.

Bolden = wtf. (Can I say this here? Honestly not sure and not sure how else to properly explain the mysterious case of M. Bolden.)

duke4ever19
01-21-2018, 10:24 AM
Great to hear he is coming to Duke. Looking at him play in a recent high school game it is obvuious he is talented and is explosive off the floor. Not sure of his size since I have seen anywhere from 6'6" 272 to 6'8" 210. As with Wendell, we can expect Duke training to make him stronger and probably somewhat lighter and more agile. Is he a Lebron James type player, a Charles Barkley type or just someone totally unique. I'd be interested in heaaring from people who have seen him play in person.

As far as playing style, I'm thinking of someone like a pre-injury Larry Johnson and Charles Barkley, but with a better vertical than both.

As for talent, apparently Roy Williams said Zion's one of the best high school players he's seen since Michael Jordan. Who knows if that was just coach-speak to try and get Zion to sign on the dotted line. I'd love for it to be true, but who knows.

CDu
01-21-2018, 10:28 AM
Great to hear he is coming to Duke. Looking at him play in a recent high school game it is obvuious he is talented and is explosive off the floor. Not sure of his size since I have seen anywhere from 6'6" 272 to 6'8" 210. As with Wendell, we can expect Duke training to make him stronger and probably somewhat lighter and more agile. Is he a Lebron James type player, a Charles Barkley type or just someone totally unique. I'd be interested in heaaring from people who have seen him play in person.

I havenít seen anywhere suggest he is only 210. He is a big dude.

3rd Dukie
01-21-2018, 10:35 AM
Thanks for posting these stats. I did watch a little of his game at the Hoop Hall Classic last week. He is not a guy that wants to shoot the 3 a lot, but shooting 30% from that range his sophomore and junior year gives some hope. He IS a big kid and far more skilled that his reputation. The kid can lead the break, loves to pass, and play help defense. He's clearly a talented player and not just an athletic freak. Also, he is an athletic freak. Wowowowowow.

These stat sheets list Zion as 6'8", 210. Can this be even close? I thought he was more 250+.

dukelifer
01-21-2018, 10:35 AM
Great to hear he is coming to Duke. Looking at him play in a recent high school game it is obvuious he is talented and is explosive off the floor. Not sure of his size since I have seen anywhere from 6'6" 272 to 6'8" 210. As with Wendell, we can expect Duke training to make him stronger and probably somewhat lighter and more agile. Is he a Lebron James type player, a Charles Barkley type or just someone totally unique. I'd be interested in heaaring from people who have seen him play in person.

The thing that come across in videos is how hard he plays and how he commands the floor. Reminds me of a bigger Barkley. Players bounce off him. Like Lebron- you do not want to take a charge from him. He plays with confidence and moves amazing well at that size.

Wheat/"/"/"
01-21-2018, 10:46 AM
These stat sheets list Zion as 6'8", 210. Can this be even close? I thought he was more 250+.

The most reliable height and weight I have seen on him is 6'6" 272 pounds.

Think Julius Peppers with better ball handling/shooting skills, or Charles Barkley light if you are old enough.

He is an unusual player and talent. Physically mature and matchup nightmare for college players.

Beast best discribes him.

MChambers
01-21-2018, 10:52 AM
I havenít seen anywhere suggest he is only 210. He is a big dude.

Guess it depends on the units of measurement. Kilograms, maybe.

Speaking of alternative measurements, anyone got cinder block measurements on Zion?

UrinalCake
01-21-2018, 10:57 AM
If I were a CHeat fan this would be killing me. The guy is tailor made to be a 4 in their system - a second big who can bang in the low post and run the floor. Back in their heyday this type of player would have committed to the CHeats before even opening up his recrutment. He certainly would never go to a Duke program that ignores their big men except for rebounding and setting screens so they can shoot threes. Times sure have changed 8-).

AtlDuke72
01-21-2018, 11:01 AM
very unlikely to happen, so Bolden is the best option by far

Best option would be for Wendell Carter to decide to come back and play one more year. Nobody thinks it will happen but nobody really thought Coach K could get Zion. Okay, while we are imagining best case fantasies, maybe Trent and Duvall come back too. Nobody would beat that team!

Vanceman201
01-21-2018, 11:12 AM
First off...let me say that I'm a lifelong UNC fan (of course disappointed in some recent events)...and I DON'T hate Duke. Naturally, I want to beat Duke whenever possible...that's sport...but, I don't
root for my side from a position of hate.

Now, on to Zion.
Congrats to Duke for this acquisition. Like one poster noted...I really do feel badly for Clemson...even more than I do for the Tarheels. I enjoyed watching what's happened to their program in recent years and after working so hard for Zion...well, it just seems like they were deserving.

But, Duke came out on top here. So, next year we'll just all lace 'em up and see how all our guys do against each other.

What I did want to offer was my observations during a recent game where Zion's team (Spartanburg Day) visited Christ School in Arden, NC.

Zion is a natural.
He is a solid physical specimen. He will body up much bigger guys with his size, but, if they aren't on their toes, he'll blow by them instantly with a wide variety of moves. These are moves that point guards and skinny, talented, athletic forwards typically make. He has an excellent touch in shooting and he has range from up close to the 3 ball. But, his bread and butter is getting the ball 8, 10, 12 feet out, putting a move on someone ( or two or three someones) and attacking the basket.

His hands are spectacular....he vacuums up anything that's even close to being within his reach.

When he gets the ball...with lightning quickness he makes his moves.
The impression I was left with was that, incredibly, Zion seemed to already know exactly what he's going do "before" he actually has control of the ball.

It feels to me like his reality (his thinking, decisions, and execution) are running about 1-2 seconds ahead of everyone else's. It's really remarkable to see how fast these things happen.

Hmm...maybe he is a time traveler.

So, with the addition of the world class trainers, teachers, and coaches at Duke...I'm thinking that Zion will become even better....and it'll happen fast.

I'd be surprised if he stays more than one year...so, let's all enjoy him while he is in the college game.

And, even though I wish him and all others good health and success...I'm still hoping that my team will have something to put on the court as competition.

Ultimately...we'll just have to lace 'em up and see.

Faison1
01-21-2018, 11:18 AM
I know very little about Zion because I always assumed he was going elsewhere (rooting for Clemson). But one thing that jumps out, and certainly impresses me, is that he's stayed in the same high school his entire career.

In this day and age where highly ranked kids jump from high school to high school for a variety of reasons, I'm just impressed he stuck with his school since freshman year. Hopefully this means he's a stand-up kid. His Step-Dad sounds like a good guy too.

richardjackson199
01-21-2018, 11:38 AM
First off...let me say that I'm a lifelong UNC fan (of course disappointed in some recent events)...and I DON'T hate Duke. Naturally, I want to beat Duke whenever possible...that's sport...but, I don't
root for my side from a position of hate.

Now, on to Zion.
Congrats to Duke for this acquisition. Like one poster noted...I really do feel badly for Clemson...even more than I do for the Tarheels. I enjoyed watching what's happened to their program in recent years and after working so hard for Zion...well, it just seems like they were deserving.

But, Duke came out on top here. So, next year we'll just all lace 'em up and see how all our guys do against each other.

What I did want to offer was my observations during a recent game where Zion's team (Spartanburg Day) visited Christ School in Arden, NC.

Zion is a natural.
He is a solid physical specimen. He will body up much bigger guys with his size, but, if they aren't on their toes, he'll blow by them instantly with a wide variety of moves. These are moves that point guards and skinny, talented, athletic forwards typically make. He has an excellent touch in shooting and he has range from up close to the 3 ball. But, his bread and butter is getting the ball 8, 10, 12 feet out, putting a move on someone ( or two or three someones) and attacking the basket.

His hands are spectacular...he vacuums up anything that's even close to being within his reach.

When he gets the ball...with lightning quickness he makes his moves.
The impression I was left with was that, incredibly, Zion seemed to already know exactly what he's going do "before" he actually has control of the ball.

It feels to me like his reality (his thinking, decisions, and execution) are running about 1-2 seconds ahead of everyone else's. It's really remarkable to see how fast these things happen.

Hmm...maybe he is a time traveler.

So, with the addition of the world class trainers, teachers, and coaches at Duke...I'm thinking that Zion will become even better...and it'll happen fast.

I'd be surprised if he stays more than one year...so, let's all enjoy him while he is in the college game.

And, even though I wish him and all others good health and success...I'm still hoping that my team will have something to put on the court as competition.

Ultimately...we'll just have to lace 'em up and see.

Thanks for your respectful post and insight. We're super stoked about Zion, and it does stink for Clemson. Zion is a beast, and will work to improve his game in many areas during his year in Durham. Conditioning and chiseling his body will be crucial to withstand a long NBA schedule with all those games to prevent wear, tear, and injuries.

Furniture
01-21-2018, 12:04 PM
If Trent continues to shoot like this- he can be a late first rounder. His release at the next level needs to be faster. But he can be a a good second unit guy in time. Duvalís position in the draft is hard to predict- probably late first round and possibly higher as he is hitting the 3 better. I donít see a lottery selection at this stage.

All of the mock NBA drafts I have seen have Duval and Trent well into the first round.

godins
01-21-2018, 12:17 PM
All of the mock NBA drafts I have seen have Duval and Trent well into the first round.

For Duval, yes. For Trent, no. On many/most preseason mocks both Duval and Trent were solidly in the first round, but it seems the consensus on Gary changed at some point early this season (a result of poor shooting in the early-season marquee matchups, perhaps.) His hot shooting of late may turn the narrative -- he's up to 43% on 3FG for the season and 50% 3FG in conference. His ~90 FT% bodes well for his stroke at the next level.

I think Duval is gone regardless of our postseason success. Trent, however, could see a boost from a good tournament, a la Tyus 2015.

Mocks
NBAdraft.net (1/4/2018): Duval (19), Trent (Not listed)
SI (1/2/2018): Duval (17), Trent (Not listed, first round mock only)
Bleacher Report (1/16/2018): Duval (28), Trent (Not listed, first round mock only)
CBSSports (1/9/2018): Duval (20), Trent (Not listed, first round mock only)

azzefkram
01-21-2018, 12:26 PM
I am flabbergasted. What a pleasant surprise. I think in the future I will try to approach all recruitments like I did Zion's. Nonchalantly assume the recruit is going elsewhere and then be pleasantly surprised when he commits to Duke. Much less stressful.

Kedsy
01-21-2018, 12:30 PM
All of the mock NBA drafts I have seen have Duval and Trent well into the first round.

I just checked a bunch of 2018 NBA mock drafts. Gary Trent is not listed in any of NBADraftNet, SI, CBSSports, MyNBADraft, or SportingNews. Which ones have you been looking at?

nmduke2001
01-21-2018, 12:32 PM
The most reliable height and weight I have seen on him is 6'6" 272 pounds.

Think Julius Peppers with better ball handling/shooting skills, or Charles Barkley light if you are old enough.

He is an unusual player and talent. Physically mature and matchup nightmare for college players.

Beast best discribes him.

Zion reminds me of a slightly shorter Shawn Kemp.

Kedsy
01-21-2018, 12:36 PM
Zion reminds me of a slightly shorter Shawn Kemp.

He's four or five inches shorter. That's a lot more than "slightly."

dukelifer
01-21-2018, 01:30 PM
All of the mock NBA drafts I have seen have Duval and Trent well into the first round.
Not sure where you are looking. Can you post a site?

Faison1
01-21-2018, 02:03 PM
Back to Zion.....has the comparison to Elton Brand already been made? Certainly from a height and weight standpoint, it's kind of close.

Troublemaker
01-21-2018, 02:18 PM
Best option would be for Wendell Carter to decide to come back and play one more year. Nobody thinks it will happen but nobody really thought Coach K could get Zion. Okay, while we are imagining best case fantasies, maybe Trent and Duvall come back too. Nobody would beat that team!

Zion to Duke was realistic (even if we weren't the favorite). Sophomore Wendell Carter isn't.

Troublemaker
01-21-2018, 02:34 PM
Back to Zion...has the comparison to Elton Brand already been made? Certainly from a height and weight standpoint, it's kind of close.

Zion does too much ball-handling for that comparison, imo. Elton was a pure post player.

devilsince1977
01-21-2018, 02:42 PM
He reminds me of a guy named Corliss Williamson.

cato
01-21-2018, 03:35 PM
Back to Zion....has the comparison to Elton Brand already been made? Certainly from a height and weight standpoint, it's kind of close.

I thought he is shorter and more explosive than Brand?

Furniture
01-21-2018, 03:47 PM
I just checked a bunch of 2018 NBA mock drafts. Gary Trent is not listed in any of NBADraftNet, SI, CBSSports, MyNBADraft, or SportingNews. Which ones have you been looking at?

Indeed I see that now and stand corrected. As another poster said he was in the teens earlier in the season ( seems like it was only a few weeks) . I wonder if he will pop back in if he keeps shooting the way he has done in the last few games.

AtlDuke72
01-21-2018, 05:32 PM
Zion to Duke was realistic (even if we weren't the favorite). Sophomore Wendell Carter isn't.

What does ďbest case fantasyĒ mean to you?

jimsumner
01-21-2018, 05:44 PM
People whose opinion I respect have compared Williamson to Larry Johnson.

I could live with that.

I'd be surprised to see Trent back next season. But not stunned.

I would be stunned to see Carter back next season.

OldPhiKap
01-21-2018, 05:45 PM
What does ďbest case fantasyĒ mean to you?

Mine does not involve basketball.



Okay, there is a basketball involved. But only at the end, and in a minor way.

Dr. Rosenrosen
01-21-2018, 05:47 PM
People whose opinion I respect have compared Williamson to Larry Johnson.

I could live with that.

I'd be surprised to see Trent back next season. But not stunned.

I would be stunned to see Carter back next season.
The second coming of Grandmama? Yes, please.

Tripping William
01-21-2018, 05:51 PM
The second coming of Grandmama? Yes, please.

But without the hitch in his free-throw shooting and unwillingness to take the final shot in the national semifinals .....

jimsumner
01-21-2018, 06:06 PM
Mine does not involve basketball.



Okay, there is a basketball involved. But only at the end, and in a minor way.

You may remember Jerry Moore, who coached App. State to those football national titles.

I heard Moore tell this story twice.

He's just won his first FCS national title.

He sees his wife.

"Honey, can you believe it? In your wildest dreams, could you ever have imagined this?"

"Jerry, you're not in my wildest dreams."

Back to your regular programming.

Duke76
01-21-2018, 06:19 PM
But without the hitch in his free-throw shooting and unwillingness to take the final shot in the national semifinals ...

imo he is a faster, jumps higher Charles Barkley...his build is just like Barkley's...Johnson was solid but slimmer...he's built like Brand and that Blair guy from Villanova...but he moves more like Barkley but faster....guarantee you Shack, Kenny and Ernie will be bringing it up next year

CDu
01-21-2018, 07:10 PM
Built like Brand, runs and jumps like LeBron, skill set more like LJ or Barkley.

-bdbd
01-21-2018, 07:54 PM
I was thinking of the Barkley comparison too, maybe w/o the huge butt. But obviously a dude destined to spend time in the interior. Heís just so athletic that you can forget that itís being done by a guy carrying around 275 lbs.

This was a wonderful surprise!!
I hope all Duke fans appreciate just how special this time is for us. It wonít always be this ďeasy.Ē Just wow ó recruits numbered 1, 2, 3 and 8 in the 2018 HS class. I wonder if thatís ever been done before by anyone. And we may not even be done yet...

Welcome Zion!

duke74
01-21-2018, 07:59 PM
Built like Brand, runs and jumps like LeBron, skill set more like LJ or Barkley.

Made me think of: "More powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound..."

Is "S" a retired letter? :)

devildeac
01-21-2018, 09:50 PM
Mine does not involve basketball.



Okay, there is a basketball involved. But only at the end, and in a minor way.

I know what you're thinking:

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?32439-Bitcoin-black-Friday-For-real-this-time!

:o:rolleyes:

OldPhiKap
01-22-2018, 05:47 AM
I know what you're thinking:



Can I get a technical?

BobBender
01-22-2018, 07:29 AM
I take issue with that characterization. How about the Hurley- Laettner era, for starters? There are other eras, of course, that would contend for that but I donít for a minute think this is one of them. Sure, itís exciting to reel in the top recruits every year, but it hasnít really markedly improved actual results. We win it all roughy every 5 years. Duke has always been very good to great, but for me, it was better when I saw players develop over 2, 3, or 4 years. The revolving door of OADís is not my ideal.

Dr. Rosenrosen
01-22-2018, 07:38 AM
I take issue with that characterization. How about the Hurley- Laettner era, for starters? There are other eras, of course, that would contend for that but I donít for a minute think this is one of them. Sure, itís exciting to reel in the top recruits every year, but it hasnít really markedly improved actual results. We win it all roughy every 5 years. Duke has always been very good to great, but for me, it was better when I saw players develop over 2, 3, or 4 years. The revolving door of OADís is not my ideal.
To be fair, I donít think Al put a precise definition to the time period, and I got the sense from his piece that he was referring broadly to the Coach K era, not the ďOAD eraĒ alone.

DukieInBrasil
01-22-2018, 08:35 AM
I was thinking of the Barkley comparison too, maybe w/o the huge butt. But obviously a dude destined to spend time in the interior. Heís just so athletic that you can forget that itís being done by a guy carrying around 275 lbs.
Welcome Zion!

i wonder if the Duke training staff is going to work with him to trim down the weight? in the videos i've seen he doesn't look chubby or anything, but HS kids are very seldom in the peak conditioning that D1 or NBA players are.
Duke has gone the other way with some guys, asking them to bulk up or muscle up, so maybe Zion is asked to go that direction.
One thing i saw in some of his videos reminded me a bit of Marvin Bagley, in that he gets above the rim so easily without any real momentum. I'm not talking about the ridiculous 2nd jump that Marvin has, although maybe Zion does that too, but there have been multiple times this year when Marvin has gone up and i was thinking "no way is gonna dunk that ball" only to see him dunk it with no issue. Zion was doing that in some of the videos as well.
I didn't bother getting hyped about Zion until now, so i am mos def late to the game wrt having a sense of his game, but he looks to be rather amazingly athletic, with ferocious plays, and also nice skill plays, around the rim. His mix tapes had him making some 3pt shots too, and withe way we've seen Wendell and Marvin both take and make pretty good looks from 3, i wouldn't be surprised if we see more than a little of that from Zion.

Welcome to Duke!

MrPoon
01-22-2018, 08:43 AM
If he's anything close to Larry Johnson... that would be great. I loved LJ, dude was such a beast.

LJ is the guy I first thought of when I watch the physicality of his game. LJ is 6’7 and STRONG. I don’t know that he had the same verticality that Williamson has... but who does? The highlight tapes are fun but I can’t really gauge his overall skill set. I hope the dunking makes the opposition wet their pants prepping for games but I hope his game is well rounded for success after Duke.

I voted for Duke in the poll. I didn’t follow the recruiting closely but thought the success this year’s team is having particlularly in the paint and the willingness to share the ball with K’s offense, made me think it would be a great fit. And while this class has three SFs they are actually very different players as near as I can tell. Zion is power and driving, Cam has a great feel for the game and really nice mid range tools and RJ connects the two from the three pt line in with good vision. And of course Jones, who I believe is a better scorer that his brother, can fill the stat sheet.

Still wondering about the Center spot, their ability to play team, help D, and rebounding might be an issue for larger teams. But if we don’t miss, we won’t need to rb!

Lastly, I wonder when Bagley breaks the dunk record (which he will) if Zion puts pressure on it only a year later!

BD80
01-22-2018, 09:05 AM
i wonder if the Duke training staff is going to work with him to trim down the weight? in the videos i've seen he doesn't look chubby or anything, but HS kids are very seldom in the peak conditioning that D1 or NBA players are.
Duke has gone the other way with some guys, asking them to bulk up or muscle up, so maybe Zion is asked to go that direction. ...

I believe this is something a bit below the recruiting surface. Duke has implemented state-of-the-art training and recovery protocols and equipment.

Particularly "one-and-dones" are looking to maximize their physical "potential" for the draft metrics. Potential drives the draft more than one year of performance.

I have little doubt that Coach K outlined Duke's plan for Zion, right down to training regime and dietary plan. I'd say that was part of what convinced him to join the brotherhood.

Duke95
01-22-2018, 09:11 AM
I have little doubt that Coach K outlined Duke's plan for Zion, right down to training regime and dietary plan. I'd say that was part of what convinced him to join the brotherhood.

No way. The strength of Duke's History department sealed the deal.

Seriously, though, I'm glad fans are realizing that top athletes don't care for the "educational product" schools offer. They're there to further their athletic careers, and there's nothing wrong with that.

MChambers
01-22-2018, 09:15 AM
I believe this is something a bit below the recruiting surface. Duke has implemented state-of-the-art training and recovery protocols and equipment.

Particularly "one-and-dones" are looking to maximize their physical "potential" for the draft metrics. Potential drives the draft more than one year of performance.

I have little doubt that Coach K outlined Duke's plan for Zion, right down to training regime and dietary plan. I'd say that was part of what convinced him to join the brotherhood.

He had a foot injury back in November, described as only a bruise. Not to go all Greybeard here, but I have to think that his size and style of play put a lot of stress on his legs and feet. I'm guessing he'd be better playing at 250 or so.

Duke95
01-22-2018, 09:17 AM
For those of you who subscribe to The Athletic, there's a cool story there on what Duke doctors are doing to help Duval's vision in the right eye.

BD80
01-22-2018, 09:32 AM
No way. The strength of Duke's History department sealed the deal.

Seriously, though, I'm glad fans are realizing that top athletes don't care for the "educational product" schools offer. They're there to further their athletic careers, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Woah. Easy there cowboy. I didn't say he doesn't care about Duke's educational product. I was commenting on how thorough Duke basketball has become in providing top-of-the-line, state-of-the-art services to its players.

I still believe that Coach K will not recruit a player not interested in the classroom aspect of being a student-athlete at Duke. (in contrast to ol' roy)

Duke95
01-22-2018, 09:52 AM
I still believe that Coach K will not recruit a player not interested in the classroom aspect of being a student-athlete at Duke. (in contrast to ol' roy)

It's ok. People still believe in Santa Claus too.

Jayson Tatum himself stated he didn't like going to class at Duke.

left_hook_lacey
01-22-2018, 09:55 AM
Woah. Easy there cowboy. I didn't say he doesn't care about Duke's educational product. I was commenting on how thorough Duke basketball has become in providing top-of-the-line, state-of-the-art services to its players.

I still believe that Coach K will not recruit a player not interested in the classroom aspect of being a student-athlete at Duke. (in contrast to ol' roy)

I hate to be the Ross here, but I agree with duke95. I too used to try to fool myself into the belief that the student athlete was alive and well. But if you think that Zion, or any other one and done, chose Duke because of academic integrity or classroom rigor, you're fooling yourself. I've said it before in many other threads and I'll say it again, there are no student athletes in big time college basketball anymore.

Sure, there are rare case by case exceptions, but in general, these one and dones couldn't care less about the 8 months of time they're in the classroom.

It sucks to think about it that way, but it's the truth. People bad mouthed Kentucky for years about being a one and done factory, and now other schools are going the same route. The only difference is at least Kentucky doesn't pretend to care about academic s anymore. They'll tell you straight up, we just want to win, graduation be damned.

sagegrouse
01-22-2018, 10:12 AM
It sucks to think about it that way, but it's the truth. People bad mouthed Kentucky for years about being a one and done factory, and now other schools are going the same route. The only difference is at least Kentucky doesn't pretend to care about academic s anymore. They'll tell you straight up, we just want to win, graduation be damned.
We have a a one-and-done system throughout college hoops. Every player who can be a lottery pick will leave, and most first-rounders will as well. No team in the country will turn down players of this talent, and -- to be fair -- it isn't 100 percent that a HS top-ten player will turn out to be a lottery pick, no matter the HS rating.

This is why NBA action is so important to get at least to a two-year minimum college career. also, I expect the Commission on College Basketball to recommend major changes in the organization and economics of college hoops. The fact that so many on the CCB have ties to either K or Duke is no accident. So many? Well, there's Grant, David Robinson, JTIII, Gen. Martin Dempsey, Mike Montgomery and even Condi Rice -- plus, I am sure, a few more.

And I would pay attention to Jay Bilas's statements about the future of hoops (commissioner, many fewer teams in a new Div. I and, therefore, stronger schedules, and the jettisoning or isolation of Mark Emmert).

This is worth a new thread

thedukelamere
01-22-2018, 10:26 AM
But if you think that Zion, or any other one and done, chose Duke because of academic integrity or classroom rigor, you're fooling yourself.

I know you took a step back and said there are rare exceptions, but obviously Wendell falls into the later. Just feel like it bears mentioning :D

brlftz
01-22-2018, 10:32 AM
While I agree that basketball is appropriately far and away the number one priority, I think it's a baseless and rude assumption that all one and dones don't care about class and get nothing out of it. Jabari is on the record talking in depth about how much he learned here in class, to the point that it changed his whole outlook on life. These guys are individuals and just because Tatum made a joke about not liking going to class it doesn't mean everyone is that way.

ETA: It doesn't even mean that Tatum is that way.

Sir Stealth
01-22-2018, 10:36 AM
It's ok. People still believe in Santa Claus too.

Jayson Tatum himself stated he didn't like going to class at Duke.

One can view Duke's academic status as a world class university as a positive and still not be super into going to class day to day. This applies to a large number of Duke students who are admitted to the school based on their academic talents only. Going to class is also less appealing in the moment when you have a very busy training/practice/travel schedule mixed in, and when your career path is not rooted in your academic performance.

I can't speak for Tatum individually, but I think that for most of the basketball players who choose to come to Duke the academic stature of the school, and being part of an institution that generally pursues excellence, is part of the appeal - even if they aren't always excited about the academic side of their responsibilities when a full schedule is on their plate and they need to hone their craft for their primary pursuit, which is justifiably a career in basketball. It may ring hollow to those who find the quick passage through school for top players distasteful, but I would bet that Duke's academic status and the idea of pursuing overall excellence is still there in our recruiting pitch, even for those who are guaranteed one and done.

kshepinthehouse
01-22-2018, 10:51 AM
I know some kids do it with fidelity but I don't see how its possible to practice, play games, travel, maintain a social life, sign autographs, study, workout, watch film, etc. There is so much that goes into being a Division 1 athlete school automatically gets put on the back burner a lot. This is really no the athletes fault. The expecations and demands are so high I can't imagine the stress they are under. That is assuming that the school actually makes them go to class :)

I know I wouldn't want to have to do all that. How many of us could barely maintain a social life and our school work at the same time? For me it was about 95% social life 5% school work.

Duke95
01-22-2018, 10:51 AM
One can view Duke's academic status as a world class university as a positive and still not be super into going to class day to day. This applies to a large number of Duke students who are admitted to the school based on their academic talents only. Going to class is also less appealing in the moment when you have a very busy training/practice/travel schedule mixed in, and when your career path is not rooted in your academic performance.

I can't speak for Tatum individually, but I think that for most of the basketball players who choose to come to Duke the academic stature of the school, and being part of an institution that generally pursues excellence, is part of the appeal - even if they aren't always excited about the academic side of their responsibilities when a full schedule is on their plate and they need to hone their craft for their primary pursuit, which is justifiably a career in basketball. It may ring hollow to those who find the quick passage through school for top players distasteful, but I would bet that Duke's academic status and the idea of pursuing overall excellence is still there in our recruiting pitch, even for those who are guaranteed one and done.

Caring about being associated with a world-class university and academic program is not the same thing as caring for the academic product itself, at least at this point in their lives. Williamson explained what Duke's pitch was. It was to help him build his brand, even after he's left Duke. That's our pitch. And it's a good one, but we aren't selling academics.

Sir Stealth
01-22-2018, 11:14 AM
Caring about being associated with a world-class university and academic program is not the same thing as caring for the academic product itself, at least at this point in their lives. Williamson explained what Duke's pitch was. It was to help him build his brand, even after he's left Duke. That's our pitch. And it's a good one, but we aren't selling academics.

Fair enough, but this is not really a new development to the one and done era. There was likely no era where Duke's recruited athletes were by and large focused on the academic product itself more than what they hoped to get out of being a part of the program for which they were recruited to play. The true academic stars who are on scholarship in revenue sports and still end up with engineering degrees or double majors, or even graduate with honors, have always been the exception. That doesn't mean that we didn't consistently get players who were more attracted to being well-rounded and attending a premier academic school.

Many Duke students who want to be associated with a world-class university and academic program also do not care much about the academic product itself in their four years. Those in this segment of the student body are still for the most part very intellectually curious and hard working; they want to be around a dynamic, intelligent population of students and faculty, but at the end of the day the academic product (including class attendance) is mostly what they are required to do in order to be associated with Duke and build their own "brand" as a Duke graduate to pursue career endeavors.

Edit: I don't really know enough about Zion to have a take on where he's likely to fall on the spectrum of caring more or less about Duke's academic reputation. It may mean nothing to him. I just don't think that the fact that the best players only stay in school for a year now means that academics are absent from our recruiting pitch, or that the idea of a student athlete in Duke basketball is any more of a fairy tale now than it may have been over the last 50 years.

budwom
01-22-2018, 11:14 AM
Caring about being associated with a world-class university and academic program is not the same thing as caring for the academic product itself, at least at this point in their lives. Williamson explained what Duke's pitch was. It was to help him build his brand, even after he's left Duke. That's our pitch. And it's a good one, but we aren't selling academics.

Without getting embroiled in how much some of these kids want to embrace school work, I would think that it would be good (further) marketing for The Brotherhood to offer some very practical
courses for these kids, such as several good, basic finance courses so they can better understand how money works and where it goes. Agents and other hangers on do not always
act transparently...

plimnko
01-22-2018, 11:17 AM
Without getting embroiled in how much some of these kids want to embrace school work, I would think that it would be good (further) marketing for The Brotherhood to offer some very practical
courses for these kids, such as several good, basic finance courses so they can better understand how money works and where it goes. Agents and other hangers on do not always
act transparently...


Econ for One and Done 101

Duke95
01-22-2018, 11:18 AM
Without getting embroiled in how much some of these kids want to embrace school work, I would think that it would be good (further) marketing for The Brotherhood to offer some very practical
courses for these kids, such as several good, basic finance courses so they can better understand how money works and where it goes. Agents and other hangers on do not always
act transparently...

I suggested this very same thing on another board. I agree completely.

BD80
01-22-2018, 01:17 PM
Without getting embroiled in how much some of these kids want to embrace school work, I would think that it would be good (further) marketing for The Brotherhood to offer some very practical courses for these kids, such as several good, basic finance courses so they can better understand how money works and where it goes. Agents and other hangers on do not always
act transparently...



Econ for One and Done 101


A course that need not be added to unc's "curriculum."


I have no problem with basketball players concentrating on practical courses that will help them in real life, I only care that they are real courses (unlike unc courses).

I would think a course on the science of nutrition and training would be very beneficial. I would tell 17 y/o me to take that course.

Courses in marketing and advertising, public speaking, media, and more could all be beneficial to a student who expects to be a pro basketball player in a year.


In a related note, the unc basketball program has apparently learned its lesson from the sham AFAM courses, they are now directing players into real courses which may help them professionally - Slavic Languages.

JetpackJesus
01-22-2018, 01:37 PM
It's ok. People still believe in Santa Claus too.

Jayson Tatum himself stated he didn't like going to class at Duke.

I often didn't like going to class at Duke during my freshman year, either. It gets a lot better in subsequent years when you get to choose classes that you have legitimate interest in taking.

PSurprise
01-22-2018, 01:42 PM
Econ for One and Done 101

New course listing: Econ 1&D

DukieInKansas
01-22-2018, 01:49 PM
Without getting embroiled in how much some of these kids want to embrace school work, I would think that it would be good (further) marketing for The Brotherhood to offer some very practical
courses for these kids, such as several good, basic finance courses so they can better understand how money works and where it goes. Agents and other hangers on do not always
act transparently...


Econ for One and Done 101

I think such a class would be beneficial for all students - not just student-athletes. My roommate during my sophomore year didn't know what to do when her bank statement didn't match her check register when it came. She had never gone through the reconciliation process before this. Being ever helpful :D I suggested she turn the statement over and follow the form on the back. (Yes, I'm old as this was back in the day when everyone got paper statements and the cancelled checks back. But not so old that ATMs weren't around.)

budwom
01-22-2018, 03:20 PM
Agreed, I see that need all the time...I envision these as completely serious and legitimate classes which the athletes will be encouraged to find genuinely useful in their lives...and some of these things can simply be addressed in non credit seminars..

Dukehky
01-22-2018, 03:24 PM
I hate to be the Ross here, but I agree with duke95. I too used to try to fool myself into the belief that the student athlete was alive and well. But if you think that Zion, or any other one and done, chose Duke because of academic integrity or classroom rigor, you're fooling yourself. I've said it before in many other threads and I'll say it again, there are no student athletes in big time college basketball anymore.

Sure, there are rare case by case exceptions, but in general, these one and dones couldn't care less about the 8 months of time they're in the classroom.

It sucks to think about it that way, but it's the truth. People bad mouthed Kentucky for years about being a one and done factory, and now other schools are going the same route. The only difference is at least Kentucky doesn't pretend to care about academic s anymore. They'll tell you straight up, we just want to win, graduation be damned.

It didn't hurt with Wendell Carter, as one of the exceptions you mentioned. Doesn't mean he's going to stay, but it's possible he comes back and takes classes to finish.

GT, Harvard, Duke, and UGA were his final schools. UGA, if you want it to, can provide a really stellar education. The rest, kind of obvious.

MarkD83
01-22-2018, 06:20 PM
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/order/true

Kedsy
01-22-2018, 06:56 PM
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/order/true

Tre Jones dropped from 10 to 12 in ESPN's rankings? Oh well, he's still at 8 in Scout and Rivals and 9 in 247.

Bull City Proud
01-22-2018, 07:33 PM
LJ is the guy I first thought of when I watch the physicality of his game. LJ is 6í7 and STRONG. I donít know that he had the same verticality that Williamson has... but who does? The highlight tapes are fun but I canít really gauge his overall skill set. I hope the dunking makes the opposition wet their pants prepping for games but I hope his game is well rounded for success after Duke.

I voted for Duke in the poll. I didnít follow the recruiting closely but thought the success this yearís team is having particlularly in the paint and the willingness to share the ball with Kís offense, made me think it would be a great fit. And while this class has three SFs they are actually very different players as near as I can tell. Zion is power and driving, Cam has a great feel for the game and really nice mid range tools and RJ connects the two from the three pt line in with good vision. And of course Jones, who I believe is a better scorer that his brother, can fill the stat sheet.

Still wondering about the Center spot, their ability to play team, help D, and rebounding might be an issue for larger teams. But if we donít miss, we wonít need to rb!

Lastly, I wonder when Bagley breaks the dunk record (which he will) if Zion puts pressure on it only a year later!

No Moses Brown at the Center spot, he is UCLA bound now . We can still attempt to get the other Brown who is also a Center.

Duke95
01-22-2018, 07:37 PM
No Moses Brown at the Center spot, he is UCLA bound now . We can still attempt to get the other Brown who is also a Center.

I think the remaining 2018 recruiting focus should be on Marques Bolden. If he transfers, we're dangerously thin at the 5.

Rich
01-22-2018, 07:42 PM
I think the remaining 2018 recruiting focus should be on Marques Bolden. If he transfers, we're dangerously thin at the 5.

Reverse recruiting?

johnb
01-22-2018, 07:47 PM
Elite basketball recruits who don't like school won't come to Duke--it's not as if other schools aren't emphasizing that Duke is packed with nerds and that even the easy classes are tough.

One-and-dones are only one-and-dones if roomfuls of adults aren't willing to guarantee them millions of dollars to play basketball.

One injury, and they're toast.

There are very few adults who wouldn't accept a guarantee of, say, $5 million dollars to play the game they love. Why slam 18 year olds for the same viewpoint?

Most Duke students aren't, by the way, deeply/rabidly intellectual and willing to forgo financial incentives in the pursuit of a life of the mind. Duke is evolving, but it's still a place that produces a disproportionate number of doctors, lawyers, and businessmen. These groups tend to be bright and diligent, but they tend not to be intellectuals.

Pre-professional basketball players are the norm at Duke, not some kind of very tall exception.

SupaDave
01-23-2018, 12:58 AM
Well... that escalated quickly. Took me forever to read this thread.

Welcome to Duke Zion. It's like God is blessing me for "hewhoshallnotbenamed" over and over and over again.

We are in a very special place. Positionless basketball.

Next year with Javin, Robinson, Zion, Cam, Barrett, and O'Connell on the court we will be long and athletic. Duke can likely can go back to man and be able to push the ball with Jones and a 2nd year Goldwire - who at this point is looking like a steal. We will have 3 (Buckmire - also a super steal) serviceable point guards next year and that's a coup in itself as we've lacked depth at the position for some time. I would love to still have Trent but I think at a minimum he will Frank Jackson it out (who is getting paid to rehab might I add).

As far as one and dones go, don't fault them for taking advantage of a world class institution, world class training facilities, world class trainers, world class doctors, national tv time, free shoes, free gear, free room and board, private planes, tournament swag, trophies, the best coach on the planet and the chance to play in THE greatest rivalry in all of college basketball - they've worked hard for it.

And you know what? We have too - we've cheered, we've endured, we've given, we've debated, we've seen growth, we built new buildings, we remodeled Cameron - this is what have been preparing for. In fact, it is indeed the show before the show for many of our recruits. Just takes some longer than others.

Oh and as far as going to class goes, these kids have 8am classes so that they can get on with the rest of the day - so yeah - I'm sure many of them hate going to class. As previously stated, you don't get to pick the cushy schedule until you're an upperclassman. I didn't see this much rumbling about education when Luke left - but hey - I'm just an observer.

If the kid's number is being called - the kid's gotta go. The brotherhood does truly work - and sometimes magically - just look at Kyrie and Tatum (and a few other duos in the league).

Oh - y'all want a Zion comparison that works? He's a 6'6 Allen Iverson (yes, he really did play point guard at one point), who is built like Anthony Mason (look him up) at just 17 years old, has the power of Rodney Rodgers (you aint lived till you've seen a Rodgers 360 degree dunk), but has the athletic ability of Kenny "Sky" Walker - so yes, he's a bit of a throw back player - but ALL of them in one. Lawd Jesus. I watched. I hoped. But I never dreamed...

So come on in Zion!!! Welcome to Duke! Let the highlights begin.

OldPhiKap
01-23-2018, 05:45 AM
Reverse recruiting?

ďRetainingĒ

moonpie23
01-23-2018, 07:08 AM
and the chance to play in THE greatest rivalry in all of college basketball.

oh, dear, this is awkward..........no one told you? i'm sorry to be the one to have to break the news, SD....unfortunately, that was all a sham :( a fake...


I'm so sorry.... :(

Duke95
01-23-2018, 08:32 AM
Elite basketball recruits who don't like school won't come to Duke--it's not as if other schools aren't emphasizing that Duke is packed with nerds and that even the easy classes are tough.


LOL, what? Please tell me this is sarcasm. Please.

flyingdutchdevil
01-23-2018, 08:51 AM
Elite basketball recruits who don't like school won't come to Duke--it's not as if other schools aren't emphasizing that Duke is packed with nerds and that even the easy classes are tough.

One-and-dones are only one-and-dones if roomfuls of adults aren't willing to guarantee them millions of dollars to play basketball.

One injury, and they're toast.

There are very few adults who wouldn't accept a guarantee of, say, $5 million dollars to play the game they love. Why slam 18 year olds for the same viewpoint?

Most Duke students aren't, by the way, deeply/rabidly intellectual and willing to forgo financial incentives in the pursuit of a life of the mind. Duke is evolving, but it's still a place that produces a disproportionate number of doctors, lawyers, and businessmen. These groups tend to be bright and diligent, but they tend not to be intellectuals.

Pre-professional basketball players are the norm at Duke, not some kind of very tall exception.

So how do you rationalize Jayson Tatum, who came to Duke and admitted that he didn't like going to class?

I think Coach K will not take students who are major academic liabilities. I do not think Coach K cares if his students like, enjoy, embrace, or care about academics; only that they attend class and do the required work. There is just no way that ALL of these OADs in the last three years care about academics. Sure, a few do (like Wendell). And we have non-OADs who do embrace and enjoy the academics (Grayson and DeLaurier to name a few).

Duke does their due diligence on all OADs to make sure they have passing grades. And I'm sure Coach K uses Duke's academic prowess as a recruiting tool and recruits/parents buy into it (as they should). But that's equivalent of me buying a BMW. Sure, the Bose sound system is awesome and helped me to make the decision to buy it, but I'm not really going to use the speakers to their full effect (sadly I don't own a BMW. Or Bose speakers).

cato
01-23-2018, 09:03 AM
So how do you rationalize Jayson Tatum, who came to Duke and admitted that he didn't like going to class?

Whoa there. That was a throw away line in an interview. Iím not sure we can read much into a teenager millionaire saying he didnít miss dragging himself to UWC.

flyingdutchdevil
01-23-2018, 09:09 AM
Whoa there. That was a throw away line in an interview. Iím not sure we can read much into a teenager millionaire saying he didnít miss dragging himself to UWC.

I think it's safe to assume that Jayson didn't come to Duke for the academics, which is my main point and response to the OP. I'm not saying Jayson isn't smart or didn't factor academics in this decision to come to Duke; I'm arguing that someone who says he doesn't miss the classes at Duke isn't academically inclined (unlike most students who are academically inclined). And to me, there is nothing wrong with that.

I, for one, do miss the classes at Duke. But I went to Duke for the academics as my first, second, and third priority.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-23-2018, 09:16 AM
I think it's safe to assume that Jayson didn't come to Duke for the academics, which is my main point and response to the OP. I'm not saying Jayson isn't smart or didn't factor academics in this decision to come to Duke; I'm arguing that someone who says he doesn't miss the classes at Duke isn't academically inclined (unlike most students who are academically inclined). And to me, there is nothing wrong with that.

I, for one, do miss the classes at Duke. But I went to Duke for the academics as my first, second, and third priority.

I feel like this sort of conversation belongs in the OAD criticism thread and not the "Welcome Zion" thread. Let's celebrate our latest recruiting coup separately from doubting the academic commitment of our recent and current players please.

kAzE
01-23-2018, 09:44 AM
I think the remaining 2018 recruiting focus should be on Marques Bolden. If he transfers, we're dangerously thin at the 5.

Yes, in theory, but will we really? I think Zion is a candidate to see some significant time at center. He's perfect for the Draymond Green role as a small ball 5, but considering he's 270+ pounds with Elton Brand arms and can jump higher than pretty much anyone in college basketball, he should have no problems dominating that position despite his height. Also, Javin should be considered a center with this team. I'm skeptical that he'd play much power forward at all next year.

Even if Bolden decided to look for greener pastures, Reddish is able to play the 4, and Javin/Jack/Antonio are good depth. Depending on how good at staying out of foul trouble Zion is (he's reputed to have great body control, like Bagley, who rarely gets in foul trouble), I'd be somewhat comfortable rolling with a 3.5 man front court of Zion, Cam, and Javin, with Jack playing some minutes at the 4.

Obviously, we want Marques to stay, and it's great if he stays. He gives us a dimension we would otherwise lack on this team: elite size and length. But it's not the end of the world if he leaves.

DukieInBrasil
01-23-2018, 09:51 AM
I think the remaining 2018 recruiting focus should be on Marques Bolden. If he transfers, we're dangerously thin at the 5.

Let's not make baseless speculation. Marques has never said anything about transferring from Duke. People worked themselves into a lather about whether his lack of court time last year would cause him to seek other opportunities, and the only thing he said in public was that he was not considering a transfer. He was injured, he didn't play much, it's not a mystery. This year, he's behind 2 absolute studs, he's injured again, it's not a mystery.
You can start the Bolden to transfer worry thread when he says anything about it. So far he's said nothing. So let's not say anything ourselves.

Afa Zion is concerned, i don't think K recruited him to play C and would be shocked if any situation caused him to be put there. K loves the idea of positionless basketball, and ZW appears to have the ability to play anything from SF to C, but i have a hard time believing that K wants to limit such a talented player to one position. Bolden, Vrank and Javin could all play down low and allow ZW to attack from the wing etc.

jimsumner
01-23-2018, 11:03 AM
Let's not make baseless speculation. Marques has never said anything about transferring from Duke. People worked themselves into a lather about whether his lack of court time last year would cause him to seek other opportunities, and the only thing he said in public was that he was not considering a transfer. He was injured, he didn't play much, it's not a mystery. This year, he's behind 2 absolute studs, he's injured again, it's not a mystery.
.

Color me equally confused. Bolden and Vrankovic are the only natural centers on next year's team and Vrankovic isn't going to start. Bolden should start alongside Williamson, Barrett, Reddish, and Jones on a title-caliber team, while getting closer to a Duke degree and hopefully an NBA future.

So, why would he transfer and sit out a season at a lesser school?

budwom
01-23-2018, 12:19 PM
Color me equally confused. Bolden and Vrankovic are the only natural centers on next year's team and Vrankovic isn't going to start. Bolden should start alongside Williamson, Barrett, Reddish, and Jones on a title-caliber team, while getting closer to a Duke degree and hopefully an NBA future.

So, why would he transfer and sit out a season at a lesser school?

Assuming he is pleased with his development at Duke this year, he wouldn't. But stranger things have happened.

jimsumner
01-23-2018, 12:25 PM
Assuming he is pleased with his development at Duke this year, he wouldn't. But stranger things have happened.

But why assume facts not otherwise in evidence?

Duke95
01-23-2018, 12:28 PM
Color me equally confused. Bolden and Vrankovic are the only natural centers on next year's team and Vrankovic isn't going to start. Bolden should start alongside Williamson, Barrett, Reddish, and Jones on a title-caliber team, while getting closer to a Duke degree and hopefully an NBA future.

So, why would he transfer and sit out a season at a lesser school?

Because he knows he's not going to be getting touches unless he rebounds them, that's why. He's going to be the 5th or 6th offensive option on that team. DeLaurier will almost certainly surpass him as an option. Look, I want Marques to succeed very badly, but we're not exactly going to be running plays for him the way we ran them for say, Okafor. He's going to be there to rebound and protect the rim. He may want more than that.

I would love for him to stay and become an integral part of a championship team next year, but I can certainly see why he'd want to transfer and start fresh elsewhere. Further, there's talk of removing the one-year transfer rule, so that may certainly have an impact on his decision.

kAzE
01-23-2018, 01:04 PM
I actually think if Bolden were to leave Duke, it's much more likely he'd just go pro rather than transfer. He can try to make a name for himself at the combine with his incredible measurables and possibly get drafted in the 2nd round based on potential alone. And right now, we don't really have a complete picture, since he's going to return and play this year. Perhaps a couple of big games in the postseason will help his draft stock.

If Marshall Plumlee is an NBA player, Marques Bolden is certainly one. You can have positionless basketball all you want, but elite size will always be desired in the NBA.

DukieInBrasil
01-23-2018, 01:05 PM
Because he knows he's not going to be getting touches unless he rebounds them, that's why. He's going to be the 5th or 6th offensive option on that team. DeLaurier will almost certainly surpass him as an option. Look, I want Marques to succeed very badly, but we're not exactly going to be running plays for him the way we ran them for say, Okafor. He's going to be there to rebound and protect the rim. He may want more than that.

I would love for him to stay and become an integral part of a championship team next year, but I can certainly see why he'd want to transfer and start fresh elsewhere. Further, there's talk of removing the one-year transfer rule, so that may certainly have an impact on his decision.

again, enough withe speculation. Until you hear something from Bolden there is no reason to assume any of the things you're assuming.
DBR has a policy against rumor mongering, and this seems like rumor mongering to me.

Troublemaker
01-23-2018, 01:07 PM
Assuming he is pleased with his development at Duke this year, he wouldn't. But stranger things have happened.

I think Marques witnessing first-hand the success of Wendell and Marvin helps Duke a lot in this regard. If his only experience with Duke were his freshman season (when both he and Harry struggled), we'd be on shakier ground. But now he knows that big men can have terrific success in Duke's system, and it's up to him to raise his level of play.

While Marques transferring does not violate any law of physics and thus is technically possible, it doesn't make sense to me that he would wait out Jefferson, Giles, Carter, and Bagley all leaving Duke and then when the post is wide open for him, he decides to leave. Would his parents want him to spend two years waiting out those guys and then leave when opportunity is knocking? I just have a hard time seeing it.


Because he knows he's not going to be getting touches unless he rebounds them, that's why. He's going to be the 5th or 6th offensive option on that team. DeLaurier will almost certainly surpass him as an option. Look, I want Marques to succeed very badly, but we're not exactly going to be running plays for him the way we ran them for say, Okafor. He's going to be there to rebound and protect the rim. He may want more than that.

I would love for him to stay and become an integral part of a championship team next year, but I can certainly see why he'd want to transfer and start fresh elsewhere. Further, there's talk of removing the one-year transfer rule, so that may certainly have an impact on his decision.

Rim-protecting, rebounding, setting screens for guards and then rolling to the basket are how almost every NBA center makes a living. Next season he would be playing the exact role he would play in the NBA. The perfect audition.

flyingdutchdevil
01-23-2018, 01:22 PM
I think Marques witnessing first-hand the success of Wendell and Marvin helps Duke a lot in this regard. If his only experience with Duke were his freshman season (when both he and Harry struggled), we'd be on shakier ground. But now he knows that big men can have terrific success in Duke's system, and it's up to him to raise his level of play.

While Marques transferring does not violate any law of physics and thus is technically possible, it doesn't make sense to me that he would wait out Jefferson, Giles, Carter, and Bagley all leaving Duke and then when the post is wide open for him, he decides to leave. Would his parents want him to spend two years waiting out those guys and then leave when opportunity is knocking? I just have a hard time seeing it.

We don't know that and this is pure speculation. The only thing I know is Duke will start 4 freshman. But Trent may come back and that pushes Zion to the 5. Or DeLaurier could start at the 5 (or at the 4 and maybe Zion goes to the 5) with Marques coming off the bench. Or Duke could get a grad transfer.

I think it's just as nonsensical to think Marques will stay as it is to think he'll transfer. I wouldn't be surprised by anything that Marques goes. To me, he's the biggest enigma on the team (in terms of long-term decision making, talent, fit, etc). I will say one thing: I'd be less surprised if Marques left the program at the end of this year than when Frank Jackson left the program for the NBA.

Troublemaker
01-23-2018, 01:33 PM
We don't know that and this is pure speculation. The only thing I know is Duke will start 4 freshman. But Trent may come back and that pushes Zion to the 5. Or DeLaurier could start at the 5 (or at the 4 and maybe Zion goes to the 5) with Marques coming off the bench. Or Duke could get a grad transfer.

I think it's just as nonsensical to think Marques will stay as it is to think he'll transfer. I wouldn't be surprised by anything that Marques goes. To me, he's the biggest enigma on the team (in terms of long-term decision making, talent, fit, etc). I will say one thing: I'd be less surprised if Marques left the program at the end of this year than when Frank Jackson left the program for the NBA.

No, it's not speculation. I have more info than you do.

For one thing, let's see Coach K take ONE grad transfer in his career before we continue to speculate every season that it's a possibility.

Trent is gone.

Yes, Marques would have to beat out Javin at the 5, but that's much more palatable than the crowded situations he was in the past two seasons. Duke will not promise a starting spot, just a great opportunity.

Duke95
01-23-2018, 02:10 PM
again, enough withe speculation. Until you hear something from Bolden there is no reason to assume any of the things you're assuming.
DBR has a policy against rumor mongering, and this seems like rumor mongering to me.

Just because you don't pay attention to other sources doesn't mean the discussion of information mentioned by those sources is rumor mongering.

I'm not saying Bolden is transferring. I'm simply noting our recruiting efforts may be well spent on him at this point, in case he is considering such a transfer. There was concern last year. I do think he's well-positioned to start next year, but I note he may want more out of playing at Duke than what is likely available in terms of touches next year.

flyingdutchdevil
01-23-2018, 02:10 PM
No, it's not speculation. I have more info than you do.

For one thing, let's see Coach K take ONE grad transfer in his career before we continue to speculate every season that it's a possibility.

Trent is gone.

Yes, Marques would have to beat out Javin at the 5, but that's much more palatable than the crowded situations he was in the past two seasons. Duke will not promise a starting spot, just a great opportunity.

Actually, "Trent is gone" is pure speculation. Unless you know more than every single draft expert out there. Cus if he is gone, he'd be at least a second rounder. And I'm not seeing Trent's name anywhere.

And in full disclosure, I too think Trent is gone. But I'm not guaranteeing it.

budwom
01-23-2018, 02:38 PM
Just because you don't pay attention to other sources doesn't mean the discussion of information mentioned by those sources is rumor mongering.

I'm not saying Bolden is transferring. I'm simply noting our recruiting efforts may be well spent on him at this point, in case he is considering such a transfer. There was concern last year. I do think he's well-positioned to start next year, but I note he may want more out of playing at Duke than what is likely available in terms of touches next year.

Nicely summarized, sir (which is why I made my original point about the importance of "recruiting" Bolden.) A very good start (IMO) would be for him to get well and then
make some nice progress this year. I suspect we are all (or should be) pulling for him to be well and prosper.

DukieInBrasil
01-23-2018, 02:41 PM
Just because you don't pay attention to other sources doesn't mean the discussion of information mentioned by those sources is rumor mongering.

I'm not saying Bolden is transferring. I'm simply noting our recruiting efforts may be well spent on him at this point, in case he is considering such a transfer. There was concern last year. I do think he's well-positioned to start next year, but I note he may want more out of playing at Duke than what is likely available in terms of touches next year.

present those sources then.
The bolded part is EXACTLY the speculation that i am talking about. If you have a source claiming he is considering a transfer then present it, otherwise it's speculative at best, rumor mongering at worst.

moonpie23
01-23-2018, 03:14 PM
I think Bolden will be VERY happy being the big man on next year's team.....

thedukelamere
01-23-2018, 03:21 PM
If Marshall Plumlee is an NBA player, Marques Bolden is certainly one.

Sure, but does Marques have the same stroke as Marshall "All-time leader in 3pt field goal percentage in Duke History" Plumlee? ;)

Troublemaker
01-23-2018, 06:27 PM
Actually, "Trent is gone" is pure speculation. Unless you know more than every single draft expert out there. Cus if he is gone, he'd be at least a second rounder. And I'm not seeing Trent's name anywhere.

And in full disclosure, I too think Trent is gone. But I'm not guaranteeing it.

Nope, still not "pure speculation," at least how I understand the meaning of those words. I'll admit and have admitted that it's scientifically possible (i.e. possible) for Bolden to transfer or for Trent to be here next year. But, just because something isn't a 100% lock doesn't mean it's pure speculation or that alternative options have just as good a chance of occurring.

flyingdutchdevil
01-23-2018, 06:33 PM
Nope, still not "pure speculation," at least how I understand the meaning of those words. I'll admit and have admitted that it's scientifically possible (i.e. possible) for Bolden to transfer or for Trent to be here next year. But, just because something isn't a 100% lock doesn't mean it's pure speculation or that alternative options have just as good a chance of occurring.

Can you please provide the source to Trent declaring? I'm just curious. Most of what I've read has Bagley, Carter, and Duval as surefire OADs with Trent going either way (depending on the analyst).

If you're banking on "Trent is a top 14 player so that means he's OAD", I'd point you to Bolden, who was ranked 11 in 2016 (all RSCI).

OldPhiKap
01-23-2018, 06:43 PM
Not to swerve off topic, but I think we landed like a really great kid named Zion.

Troublemaker
01-23-2018, 07:48 PM
Not to swerve off topic, but I think we landed like a really great kid named Zion.

That is a good point. Here's my contribution to that thought process.

Not only did we land a great kid, but I believe Zion made a great choice in choosing Duke for his one year of development in college. Almost every writeup of Zion will point out that his biggest weakness heading into college is his outside shooting. Well, I can't think of a better staff to work with him on that weakness than Duke's.

Check out this ESPN article about this season's freshmen and their shooting percentages prior to Duke (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21402837/duke-blue-devils-talented-freshmen-need-refine-shooting-skills):

https://i.imgur.com/l2yyfCu.png

Unless I'm mistaken, I believe every single player on that list has a better 3-pt shooting pct at Duke

DukieInBrasil
01-24-2018, 08:10 AM
That is a good point. Here's my contribution to that thought process.

Not only did we land a great kid, but I believe Zion made a great choice in choosing Duke for his one year of development in college. Almost every writeup of Zion will point out that his biggest weakness heading into college is his outside shooting. Well, I can't think of a better staff to work with him on that weakness than Duke's.

Check out this ESPN article about this season's freshmen and their shooting percentages prior to Duke (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21402837/duke-blue-devils-talented-freshmen-need-refine-shooting-skills):

https://i.imgur.com/l2yyfCu.png

Unless I'm mistaken, I believe every single player on that list has a better 3-pt shooting pct at Duke

yup, J-Gold and Trevon are both not much improved from those numbers, but a bit better. Marvin, Wendell, Gary and Alex are all shooting at least 10% better, with Marvin and Alex shooting +/-20% better. pretty solid improvements.
Seems like a pretty common thread is emerging in our recruiting, that recruits are realizing that in one year with K they can improve an area of weakness and become lottery draft picks. Glad Zion is smart enough to know what his weakness is/are and that he wants to improve in that area/s.

Bull City Proud
01-24-2018, 08:19 AM
Can you please provide the source to Trent declaring? I'm just curious. Most of what I've read has Bagley, Carter, and Duval as surefire OADs with Trent going either way (depending on the analyst).

If you're banking on "Trent is a top 14 player so that means he's OAD", I'd point you to Bolden, who was ranked 11 in 2016 (all RSCI).

Trent will be back. As for Bolden not close to pro,prospect now .

swood1000
01-24-2018, 11:29 AM
It looks like John Calipari had a not entirely positive reaction (https://www.seccountry.com/kentucky/kentucky-basketball-john-calipari-fires-back-duke) to Zion Williamson choosing Duke. There's no socialism at Kentucky.


The Wildcats haven’t signed a top-5 recruit in any of the last three classes after turning college basketball on its ear with a slew of such prospects during Calipari’s first several seasons in Lexington. Meanwhile, Mike Krzyzewski and Duke have made a run on the elite talent. …

And now back to Calipari’s rant on Monday:

“My concern is whoever we get here, how do we help them get to be the best version of themselves both on and off the court?” he said. “How do we send them off from here after a year, two years, three years, four years, whatever, with a basis to have success on and off the court where they can be involved in their communities, where it’s not just solely basketball? How they can count on themselves.”

That transitioned nicely into Calipari taking his most pointed shot at the Blue Devils — without naming them, of course.

“I don’t sell, like, ‘When you come here, the university and the state will take care of you the rest of your life,’ ” he said. “You may buy that, and I’ve got some great property in some swampland down in Florida to sell you, too.”

In April 2016, when Kentucky freshman Hamidou Diallo was a 5-star recruit, he said, “Duke’s pitch was if you come to Duke, you’re going to be set for life (https://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/kentucky/2016/04/25/5-star-guard-diallo-likes-both-uk-duke-pitches/83492530/).”

On Monday, Calipari seemed to be taking issue with that promise. ...

"There’s no socialism here. This stuff is, ‘You’ve gotta go do it and we’re gonna help you do it.’ Some [recruits] like that. Some don’t like it.”

MrPoon
01-24-2018, 10:34 PM
It looks like John Calipari had a not entirely positive reaction (https://www.seccountry.com/kentucky/kentucky-basketball-john-calipari-fires-back-duke) to Zion Williamson choosing Duke. There's no socialism at Kentucky.

This is the point of all of this, Cal the showman when asked about loosing the last great prospect of this class that many believed he wanted badly to be the crown jewel of this class, turned the entire discussion about the Duke Kentucky rivalry. Cal wants anything as a headline rather than, ďDuke beats Cal AGAIN for top prospectĒ.

But letís be clear about whatever is being said to theses kids, Cal, they are picking Duke not your schtick. Try and dodge the question again, but where is Zion going again because I forgot? Barrett? Where is he going, Barrett, you might remember him from you stint NOT winning with the national team. Iím sure your great coaching had him on the fence but Dukeís fake promises tricked him. Or are you inferring Duke was the easy way out and he didnít want to ďearnĒ it at Kentucky? Maybe heís still tired after beating your team to the tune of 38 points? Maybe that might be part of the their decision? Probably not. Could it be a better coach who inspires them to be part of something bigger than your NBA or bust sweatshop? No, itís just they are lazy suckers?

Okay that must be it... by the way where is Zion going to school?

kAzE
01-24-2018, 11:12 PM
Some pretty cool insight about Zion. Sounds like an incredible kid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=705Yipi55qY

Troublemaker
01-25-2018, 06:49 AM
A breakdown of Zion's game below. Look at how much he handles the ball (which is why part of Coach K's pitch to Zion was to say Duke would play him like Lebron in the Olympics (http://usatodayhss.com/2017/the-zion-williamson-blog-taking-over-disney-talks-with-coach-k-migos-and-more)).

That's going to be one of the big hurdles for next season. We have 4 players coming in who are used to being the primary ball-handlers on their teams. One or two of them are going to have to convert to more of an off-ball role. It's a different situation from this year's team in which the roles were easily defined. Carter and Bagley would be the bigs (albeit versatile bigs), Trent would be the off-ball wing, and Duval and Allen would be the primary and secondary ball-handlers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBgC-7kTyO4

OZ
01-25-2018, 08:19 AM
A breakdown of Zion's game below. Look at how much he handles the ball (which is why part of Coach K's pitch to Zion was to say Duke would play him like Lebron in the Olympics (http://usatodayhss.com/2017/the-zion-williamson-blog-taking-over-disney-talks-with-coach-k-migos-and-more)).

That's going to be one of the big hurdles for next season. We have 4 players coming in who are used to being the primary ball-handlers on their teams. One or two of them are going to have to convert to more of an off-ball role. It's a different situation from this year's team in which the roles were easily defined. Carter and Bagley would be the bigs (albeit versatile bigs), Trent would be the off-ball wing, and Duval and Allen would be the primary and secondary ball-handlers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBgC-7kTyO4


Here's to having this problem every year.

dchen09
01-25-2018, 08:27 AM
A breakdown of Zion's game below. Look at how much he handles the ball (which is why part of Coach K's pitch to Zion was to say Duke would play him like Lebron in the Olympics (http://usatodayhss.com/2017/the-zion-williamson-blog-taking-over-disney-talks-with-coach-k-migos-and-more)).

That's going to be one of the big hurdles for next season. We have 4 players coming in who are used to being the primary ball-handlers on their teams. One or two of them are going to have to convert to more of an off-ball role. It's a different situation from this year's team in which the roles were easily defined. Carter and Bagley would be the bigs (albeit versatile bigs), Trent would be the off-ball wing, and Duval and Allen would be the primary and secondary ball-handlers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBgC-7kTyO4

Hopefully we run something like GSW and play real positionless basketball. Although alot of these guys are used to be the primary ball-handlers, I think it has also impacted their perimeter shot a good amount. I can see where all these guys might get a good bump in 3pt percentage just because they get a few more catch and shoot opportunities. Also unlike some previous smaller Duke teams, all 3 of our wings are good rebounders (heck, even Tre Jones is a good rebounder for his position) so everyone is going to have their chance to bring the ball up the court and run the break.

Troublemaker
01-25-2018, 08:59 AM
Hopefully we run something like GSW and play real positionless basketball. Although alot of these guys are used to be the primary ball-handlers, I think it has also impacted their perimeter shot a good amount. I can see where all these guys might get a good bump in 3pt percentage just because they get a few more catch and shoot opportunities. Also unlike some previous smaller Duke teams, all 3 of our wings are good rebounders (heck, even Tre Jones is a good rebounder for his position) so everyone is going to have their chance to bring the ball up the court and run the break.

We're not small next season. Barrett will be a big SG in college, Reddish a big SF in college, and Williamson a big PF at 250 lbs or so. All three will be great rebounders for their positions. And, as you mentioned, Tre Jones is another good rebounder for his position at PG.

We are so lucky.

COYS
01-25-2018, 09:18 AM
Hopefully we run something like GSW and play real positionless basketball. Although alot of these guys are used to be the primary ball-handlers, I think it has also impacted their perimeter shot a good amount. I can see where all these guys might get a good bump in 3pt percentage just because they get a few more catch and shoot opportunities. Also unlike some previous smaller Duke teams, all 3 of our wings are good rebounders (heck, even Tre Jones is a good rebounder for his position) so everyone is going to have their chance to bring the ball up the court and run the break.

Yeah, I'm not too worried about roles next season. Tre will be the primary ballhandler with RJ the most likely of the freshmen to be the secondary ballhandler. Cam, from the video that i've seen and from the scouting reports, seems the most likely candidate to be the best catch-and-shoot player of the bunch so I'd expect him to play off the ball more. And then Zion will be a mismatch ballhandler but he'll also have free reign to lead the break after rebounds just like Jabari, Justise, and Marvin have. Even with Lebron on the Olympic team, ballhandling duties were shouldered by Chris Paul, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, etc. Even with all that point guard talent, Lebron still had plenty of opportunities to make plays. I think next year will be the same.

Also, just as you say, dchen09, it's a good problem to have so many ballhandlers. It won't matter too much who gets the ball in the open floor or who has the ball with a few seconds left on the shot clock. The team will be stacked with playmakers.

flyingdutchdevil
01-25-2018, 09:22 AM
Yeah, I'm not too worried about roles next season. Tre will be the primary ballhandler with RJ the most likely of the freshmen to be the secondary ballhandler. Cam, from the video that i've seen and from the scouting reports, seems the most likely candidate to be the best catch-and-shoot player of the bunch so I'd expect him to play off the ball more. And then Zion will be a mismatch ballhandler but he'll also have free reign to lead the break after rebounds just like Jabari, Justise, and Marvin have. Even with Lebron on the Olympic team, ballhandling duties were shouldered by Chris Paul, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, etc. Even with all that point guard talent, Lebron still had plenty of opportunities to make plays. I think next year will be the same.

Also, just as you say, dchen09, it's a good problem to have so many ballhandlers. It won't matter too much who gets the ball in the open floor or who has the ball with a few seconds left on the shot clock. The team will be stacked with playmakers.

I'd argue that Cam is the second ball handler, not RJ. Cam plays PG for his school. His recruiting profile pros includes distribution and passing. His cons include being too unselfish. His handle is incredible for a 6'8" dude. To me, Cam is the perfect definition of a "point forward".

dukelion
01-25-2018, 10:14 AM
I'd argue that Cam is the second ball handler, not RJ. Cam plays PG for his school. His recruiting profile pros includes distribution and passing. His cons include being too unselfish. His handle is incredible for a 6'8" dude. To me, Cam is the perfect definition of a "point forward".

RJ is an interesting player because everything I read/see with him alludes to his basketball IQ and not so much to his running and jumping abilities. More than a few people think he'll be a point guard in the NBA for that reason alone.

dchen09
01-25-2018, 10:37 AM
RJ is an interesting player because everything I read/see with him alludes to his basketball IQ and not so much to his running and jumping abilities. More than a few people think he'll be a point guard in the NBA for that reason alone.

I think its more because RJ was given the ball so much on team Canada. While he's not a black hole, I'm not sure he's a natural point guard where he's constantly looking to set up offense. One of the criticisms of his game is that he makes some bad decisions with the ball, although probably because he has so much talent compared to his teammates. If anything, I see him as the player who will be best playing off the ball. He won't be specifically put in the situation to be constantly pulling up off the dribble and I think that will help his perimeter scoring efficiency. On the other hand, Reddish was specifically the point guard of a team that included Mo Bamba and Brandon Randolph (a top-50 SG known for his shooting). Williamson seems like more of a fast break ball handler/iso playmaker. Williamson is a beast on the break and has pretty good vision and some great counter moves off the dribble. Reddish is much more shifty and smooth. Also the way they score is completely different. Williamson will take it to the hoop 90% of the time, while Reddish tends to pull up. I think how Reddish and Williamson co-exist as the secondary ballhandler will be the most interesting aspect of the team.

kAzE
01-25-2018, 11:52 AM
RJ is an interesting player because everything I read/see with him alludes to his basketball IQ and not so much to his running and jumping abilities. More than a few people think he'll be a point guard in the NBA for that reason alone.

Yeah, to be honest, I have no idea how the ball handling responsibilities will turn out with those 4 (Tre, RJ, Cam, and Zion). All four of them are capable of initiating offensive sets. The hope is that the team becomes something like the Golden State Warriors, with quick and decisive passes allowing everyone to touch the ball on almost every possession, and forcing the opposing defense to constantly adjust.

But even the Warriors really only have 3 ball handlers with that starting unit (Curry, Durant, and Green), while Klay is mostly a spot up shooter and doesn't dribble the ball as much.

Zion seems like an ideal fit for the Draymond role, and Cam could be a reasonable college facsimile of Durant. We don't have a Klay in this group, unfortunately, unless Gary Trent comes back, and all of these guys are worse shooters than their Warrior counterparts, so this analogy might be totally crap.

MChambers
01-25-2018, 11:55 AM
I'd argue that Cam is the second ball handler, not RJ. Cam plays PG for his school. His recruiting profile pros includes distribution and passing. His cons include being too unselfish. His handle is incredible for a 6'8" dude. To me, Cam is the perfect definition of a "point forward".

Sounds a lot like Grant Hill. As I recall, Hill and Hurley played pretty well together, and even did well with Billy McCaffrey for his two years at Duke. I think Coach K will enjoy coaching these guys.

WillJ
01-25-2018, 11:57 AM
Add me to the group that is impressed with Zion's handle. As for who he remind me of from the past, I might add the late Anthony Mason to the mix. To me, Mason was a trailblazer in the big-guys-with-handles revolution.

English
01-25-2018, 12:41 PM
Yeah, to be honest, I have no idea how the ball handling responsibilities will turn out with those 4 (Tre, RJ, Cam, and Zion). All four of them are capable of initiating offensive sets. The hope is that the team becomes something like the Golden State Warriors, with quick and decisive passes allowing everyone to touch the ball on almost every possession, and forcing the opposing defense to constantly adjust.

But even the Warriors really only have 3 ball handlers with that starting unit (Curry, Durant, and Green), while Klay is mostly a spot up shooter and doesn't dribble the ball as much.

Zion seems like an ideal fit for the Draymond role, and Cam could be a reasonable college facsimile of Durant. We don't have a Klay in this group, unfortunately, unless Gary Trent comes back, and all of these guys are worse shooters than their Warrior counterparts, so this analogy might be totally crap.

Perhaps inappropriate for this thread, but the bolded above is tremendously enticing as a fan, but also tremendously difficult to execute as a player new to a system and all of his teammates...so, I'm wondering if the canceled 2017-2018 preseason trip (and corresponding extra practices) would allow this upcoming group to take a preseason trip, giving them additional opportunities to practice and play together in advance of the season. Next season's team will be the youngest at Duke since, well, this season's team.

jimsumner
01-25-2018, 01:18 PM
Cameron Reddish is more Shaun Livingston than Justise Winslow. If Trent were to return, Reddish could easily start at point.

Now, that's a big perimeter.

flyingdutchdevil
01-25-2018, 01:22 PM
Sounds a lot like Grant Hill. As I recall, Hill and Hurley played pretty well together, and even did well with Billy McCaffrey for his two years at Duke. I think Coach K will enjoy coaching these guys.

But in your analogy, I assume Tre would be Bobby. The discussion was more about Cam vs RJ as the second ball-handler.

Now, if RJ is as good as Cam and only slightly less of a ball-handler distributor than Tre, we have an embarrassment of riches. Basically, said player does 20 push-ups if they turn the ball over whilst dribbling. Fair?

flyingdutchdevil
01-25-2018, 01:24 PM
Cameron Reddish is more Shaun Livingston than Justise Winslow. If Trent were to return, Reddish could easily start at point.

Now, that's a big perimeter.

I really like that comparison, only Reddish is 10x the shooter that Livingston is/was.

thedukelamere
01-25-2018, 01:35 PM
Next season's team will be the youngest at Duke since, well, this season's team.

I haven't been as excited and interested in seeing an incoming class develop and grow together since, well, this season's team.

kAzE
01-25-2018, 01:51 PM
I really like that comparison, only Reddish is 10x the shooter that Livingston is/was.

I dunno, aside from being good ball handlers and passers, they have really different games. Cam is stronger and a better scorer in the paint and from the 3 point line, but Shaun has a nasty post up and mid range game, while he struggles from 3 point distance. Cam hasn't really developed a back to the basket game (yet) like Shaun, who is almost unique in the NBA in his post up ability as a point guard. Cam to me is somewhere between a poor man's Kevin Durant and a rich man's Tyreke Evans.

flyingdutchdevil
01-25-2018, 02:05 PM
I dunno, aside from being good ball handlers and passers, they have really different games. Cam is stronger and a better scorer in the paint and from the 3 point line, but Shaun has a nasty post up and mid range game, while he struggles from 3 point distance. Cam hasn't really developed a back to the basket game (yet) like Shaun, who is almost unique in the NBA in his post up ability as a point guard. Cam to me is somewhere between a poor man's Kevin Durant and a rich man's Tyreke Evans.

Did Shaun have a post up game as a recruit? I don't think so. Given his height, it seems like the kind of thing he developed in the NBA.

I don't like the Kevin Durant comparison. Durant is a pure scorer first and foremost. He may be the best scorer in the NBA. Cam, if anything, looks like a homeless man's Lebron with his really unique skill set. I know, I know. Don't compare to Lebron. But Cam is very, very versatile. He just needs added strength and more drive (ie effort).

dchen09
01-25-2018, 08:45 PM
Well I found this scouting report of him in the NBA [http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Shaun-Livingston-3327/].
Obviously its against much better competition but the fact that he's not known for his offense makes it seem like he's not the greatest comparison to Reddish. I don't think Reddish is the pure point that Livingston is/was but has much better shooting ability.

Channing
01-25-2018, 09:34 PM
Can reminds me a bit of Paul George (at least offensively), especially the way he is playing this year. Hopefully he is close to as good defensively.

DukeFanSince1990
01-29-2018, 10:58 AM
Looks like a great young man too.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=swoH636CmQY

UrinalCake
01-29-2018, 11:44 AM
So apparently Zionís stepdad is also his AAU coach, and is somewhat notorious for carrying around his three year-old son (Zionís stepbrother) in his arms during games, WHILE COACHING. This was noticed during the infamous game last summer when Zion played against Lamelo Ball and a near-riot formed trying to get into the game. Cool story and hats off to this committed dad. Somebody get the man an Ergo!

Link (http://usatodayhss.com/2017/lamelo-ball-zion-williamson-sleeping-baby-steals-show)

8034

BD80
01-29-2018, 11:45 AM
So apparently Zionís stepdad is also his AAU coach, and is somewhat notorious for carrying around his three year-old son (Zionís stepbrother) in his arms during games, WHILE COACHING. This was noticed during the infamous game last summer when Zion played against Lamelo Ball and a near-riot formed trying to get into the game. Cool story and hats off to this committed dad. Somebody get the man an Ergo!

Link (http://usatodayhss.com/2017/lamelo-ball-zion-williamson-sleeping-baby-steals-show)

8034

How could you T up a coach holding his 3 yo son?

toughbuff1
02-08-2018, 04:40 PM
Zion's team is playing on ESPN2 right now, FYI.

MartyClark
02-08-2018, 05:05 PM
Zion's team is playing on ESPN2 right now, FYI.

I'm watching his game also in nervous anticipation of the Duke-UNCheat game.

Zion is a stud. I think he could get leaner and even more explosive next year.

drummerdevil
02-08-2018, 05:31 PM
While watching the game, I'm watching the defensive scheme Spartanburg Day is running, and it's probably (hopefully) just the scheme, but he doesn't seem to be doing much on defense.

CDu
02-08-2018, 05:36 PM
While watching the game, I'm watching the defensive scheme Spartanburg Day is running, and it's probably (hopefully) just the scheme, but he doesn't seem to be doing much on defense.

I don’t think it is the scheme. High school bball is just not very high-quality. Especially when it isn’t an elite high school program (Spartanburg is basically only good because of Williamson).