PDA

View Full Version : Favorite Player Poll- Brand vs. Carrawell



JasonEvans
10-24-2007, 08:00 AM
The 6th of our Round of 32 matchups features the best 2-year player in Duke history versus a guy who did not become a real legend until his 4th year in school. Both of them were warriors though!

#12 seeded Elton Brand versus #21 seed Chris Carrawell. Good luck figuring this one out!!!

--Jason "need to think a bit before I figure out my vote... these are never easy" Evans

Jumbo
10-24-2007, 08:12 AM
C-Well is the #21 seed? Yikes. I liked Elton at Duke, and I love the person he's become as a pro. But C-Well might be one of my four favorite Dukies of all-time. He's got to win this.

riverside6
10-24-2007, 08:48 AM
I'm a bit surprised with the vote count thus far! I knew C-Well was a fan favorite, but never thought it would be this kind of landslide.

Spencer's Daddy
10-24-2007, 09:00 AM
Two words--Four. Years.

Jfrosh
10-24-2007, 09:11 AM
I thought it would be closer than this. Not Alarie-Duhon close, but still a tough decision. I loved Brand during his two years but as has been said 4>2.

monkey
10-24-2007, 09:27 AM
Wow. I was going to vote for Carawell before I read the reviews telling me it was a blowout - Elton needs to receive a lot more love. Great player. Really enjoyable to watch (note as per the above, loved Carawell also). And, well, I'll always look back fondly on this: "Elton Brand, Elton Brand. I'm tired of Elton Brand" - Makhtar Ndiaye, as quoted in the Duke Chronicle, 3/22/98

OZZIE4DUKE
10-24-2007, 09:28 AM
What got my vote for Chris was when during a game his freshman year he popped his shoulder back into joint ON THE COURT! Talk about tough!

RepoMan
10-24-2007, 09:34 AM
This bites. These are two of my favorites. Elton for pure dominance. Carrawell for his confidence and elan.

throatybeard
10-24-2007, 09:37 AM
"They came out all rah-rah. We knocked them back. After that, there was no more rah-rah." ---Cwell on State.

I think I would put CWell at 4th in my all-time favorite four after Wojo, Davis and Brickey.

RepoMan
10-24-2007, 09:49 AM
"They came out all rah-rah. We knocked them back. After that, there was no more rah-rah." ---Cwell on State.


C-well had the best quotes. DBR or some thread once had a list of some of the best. Maybe someone can find it.

FreezingDevil
10-24-2007, 10:49 AM
As much as I admire Brand for what he brought to Duke and for the player he has become as a pro, I find it hard to vote for someone who left early over someone who was a four year player. Staying for four years and earning that degree represents everything that is good about collegiate athletics

EarlJam
10-24-2007, 10:55 AM
As much as I admire Brand for what he brought to Duke and for the player he has become as a pro, I find it hard to vote for someone who left early over someone who was a four year player. Staying for four years and earning that degree represents everything that is good about collegiate athletics

Then there was that nasty e-mailing incident. Yes, the person probably deserved it, but if memory serves, didn't Brand make a sweeping generalization or two about Duke students as a whole? I know he was "in a moment" and I can certainly see why he responded the way he did, but still. It was not a great moment for either side.

Did he ever come out and apologize, or bring clarity to his view on Duke students as a whole?

Just to be clear, I personally do not hold that against him. He just had a bad, natural reaction to an e-mail that should have never been sent to him.

Not sure how all of that ended - or how close he remains to K and the Duke program.

-EarlJam

VaDukie
10-24-2007, 11:30 AM
I love C-Well but had to give my vote to Brand for how incredibly dominating he was.

I understand K's reasons behind it, but I hope someday #42 hits the rafters if someone else doesn't get the honors.

Biscuit King
10-24-2007, 11:58 AM
(After first two rounds of NCAA tournament in 2000)
Writer: Why do you think there have been so many upsets already this year?
C-Well: You have all these teams going out there with tight asses! They're playing tight! You have to go out firing all your bullets.

bird
10-24-2007, 12:10 PM
gotta go with the four year guy

77devil
10-24-2007, 12:12 PM
As much as I admire Brand for what he brought to Duke and for the player he has become as a pro, I find it hard to vote for someone who left early over someone who was a four year player. Staying for four years and earning that degree represents everything that is good about collegiate athletics

C-well stayed four years but did not graduate at the time. Did he ever come back and finish? He still gets my vote over Elton, who I like very much, but did not stay around long enough to be on of my favorite players.

EarlJam
10-24-2007, 12:14 PM
(After first two rounds of NCAA tournament in 2000)
Writer: Why do you think there have been so many upsets already this year?
C-Well: You have all these teams going out there with tight asses! They're playing tight! You have to go out firing all your bullets.

Oh my! THAT, is funny!

I didn't/don't remember that one from him. On a somewhat related note, a friend of mine once used the following phrase when talking about one of our very uptight friends: "Man, his I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. is so tight he could sh#$ in a Texas Pete bottle."

I found that amusing and it made me spew my Milwaukee's Best Light.

-EarlJam

EarlJam
10-24-2007, 12:34 PM
Speaking of Elton Brand, here is an update on his comeback from a ruptured Achilles:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7368594

-EarlJam, who is also working to get back into form after rupturing his Achilles in May.

Jumbo
10-24-2007, 12:49 PM
I think I can make a compelling argument that C-Well was one of the five most important players of the K era. If you look at his career record, the factr that he was part of the 1996-97 team that turned things around after two down years and the role he played in 1999-2000 after the mass exodus, the guy was amazing. Plus, has there ever been a better quote-machine at Duke, or a guttier, tougher player?

johnb
10-24-2007, 01:25 PM
Brand left because he was a man among boys and was definitely going to be an NBA starter. K supported the decision.

You don't think Carrawell woudn't have left if he'd been good enough?

Chris was scrappy, and I liked him, but Elton was not only a superstar talent but a guy with great effort and heart. Wasn't he named the NBA's good guy of the year (forget the real name) before Deng? And, while it's hard to quantify such things, I'd say that Elton did more in two years than Chris did in four.

Go Elton!!!

dukestheheat
10-24-2007, 01:29 PM
ok,

i voted for c-well and i just miss having this guy on the team. we had a thread up a few months back with c-well quotes and i laughed my head off; funny thing, i can see myself saying many of the same things he said, just differently, but when he comes out with his stuff it's just so funny.

i miss his swagger and his emotion; i loved watching him play.

he was a Duke bad-I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this..

come back c-well, ya got one more year of eligibility left dude!

dth.

VaDukie
10-24-2007, 01:41 PM
Despite my Brand vote I have to say that C-Well's 2000 season was one of the truly special in Duke history. From role player to best in the conference - he was so much fun to watch.

And who can forget the end of the Florida game? For everyone who mocks K for saying he focuses on 'relationships' with players and what not, who can look at that and not say that he truly forms a bond with his players?

killerleft
10-24-2007, 02:06 PM
My vote goes to Carrawell. He's just tough. He made himself into the very best player he could be. That he was ACC Player of the Year as a senior is one of the amazing things in ACC history. That year Carrawell and his teammates gave Duke, Coach K, and us something to be really proud of.

Elton Brand was obviously more talented, and had the same toughness. He just had 2 years of it instead of 4. Not knocking him for leaving. Four years of Elton and there is no contest.

Billy Dat
10-24-2007, 02:12 PM
To me, C-Well represents everything a Duke player should aspire to be in that he literally mined every drop of his talent to become as good as he could possibly be. He represents a trend that we haven't seen for a while...the kid who gets better and better every year until he becomes team leader and one of our most important players as a senior. I include the following on that list; Nate James, Dahntay Jones, Chris Duhon, Daniel Ewing. This is what Demarcus must become this year - but I digress.

Granted, the ACC really down year in 2000, but the fact that C-Well became the ACC Player of the Year is remarkable - and he deserved it. Unfortunately, he peaked a little too early (I count the late season home losses to Maryland and St Johns as the turning point for him) and couldn't keep that mojo going in the NCAAs.

I also think that his was the last great senior day win over the Tar Heels. I don't think I've seen a better ending then C-Well, clearly beloved by the fans, holding the ball over his head, smiling wide, and slowly proceeding down the barrier between the students and the court, his teamates around him, his classmates respectfully but intensely crushing in, drinking in the moment. Despite the ACC Tournament win, that was the signature moment of that season for me, one that was bookended by the pre-game where he had his mother at center court and she had that look that said, "Wow - how did this kid get us from East St. Louis to this moment?"

Plus, he was the heart and soul of one of the most important, and beloved (to me), Duke teams in recent memory - the post exodus 1999-2000 squad.

I love Elton Brand, but he had amazing talent and insane physical attributes (hands, arms). C-Well had a lot less, which made what he did that much more incredible.

Olympic Fan
10-24-2007, 02:43 PM
Elton Brand was a great player -- better than Carrawell -- and I respect the heck out of him. I do not hold it against him one iota that he left early -- it was the right career move for him. I've always pulled for him in the NBA and I hope he recovers fully from his latest injury.

All that said, this is a poll of "favorite" players, not "best" players and there's no way Carrawell doesn't finish No. 1 in my book -- he's my all-time favorite Duke player and I'll keep voting for him as long as he survives in this contest.

Why? Just a few points:

-- His astonishing toughness as a freshman. He arrived at Duke with two damaged shoulders and played his first year in an awkward shoulder harness. As an earlier poster pointed out, on at least one occassion, he popped his shoulder out of the socket and popped it back in without leaving the game. A number of other times, he did leave the floor -- had it popped back in on the bench -- and returned to action.

-- His role is reviving the Duke program. After the nightmare of 1995 and the mediocrity of 1996, not a lot was expected in 1997. But the team took off when CC replaced Newton at center. Playing at 6-6 against Wake Forest's frontline of 7-1 (Woods), 6-11 (Duncan) and 6-10 (Peral), he made the plays down to stretch in Winston-Salem to keep the ball out of Duncan's hands as Duke won the key game that led to the 97 ACC regular season title.

-- His sacrifice in 1998 and 1999. Carrawell, his shoulders replaired, was willing (and able) to fill almost any role to help those two talent-laden teams win. Sometimes he was a wing defender. Sometimes he was a rebounder. Sometimes a post defender. Occasionally, he was a scorer. I recall a great Sunday afternoon OT game against St. John's in the Garden when Avery and Brand fouled out and Carrawell moved to the point and saved our butts (I looked it up -- 17 points, nine rebounds, six assists in 40 minutes).

-- That spring, Duke's roster was decimated. Carrawell and Battier -- two role players -- and Nate James, who wasn't even that, were the only players with experience coming back. It could have been another 1995 ... instead, 2000 was one of the great years in my lifetime -- 29 wins, 15-1 in the ACC, another ACC tourney title and a final No. 1 ranking.

Carrawell played a HUGE role in that success. I remember visiting Cameron on an number of occasions in the spring of 1999 and every time I was there, I saw Carrawell working out ... EVERY TIME. One day -- after Brand, Avery, Burgess and Maggette had gone (not to mention Trajan, who graduated) -- I stopped to talk to him and joked about him being in the gym every day. He was friendly, but he didn't laugh back. He said he was going to personally make sure that Duke didn't slip in 2000. I can't repeat the words, but I swear chills ran up and down my spine listening to him.

Darned if he didn't keep his promise. To some degree he did it by transforming himself from a great supporting player to a great player, period. How many guys do you see take that step after their junior year>

He also did it with his leadership. I understand that when Duke lost those two heartbreakers in Madison Square Garden to open the next season, Carrawell walked up and down the aisle of the bus, telling his teammates that they were not going to quit, that they were going to get back to Durham and go to work and they were going to have a big season.

Duke proceded to win its next 18 straight games. The next two after the NY losses were patsies, but in the next tough game at Southern Cal,. Carrawell had 24 points, six rebounds, four assists; he had 21-7-3 against Illinois in the Challenge; he had 25-5-3 (with three blocks) as Duke had to go OT to win its ACC opener at Virginia; he had 30-4-2 in an OT win over State; he had 23-6-5 in an OT win at UNC; 21-7-4 in the rematch with the Heels ...

I give Battier and James a lot of credit for that season too. And by the end of the season, I thought Battier had become the team's best all-around player. But early, when it issue was still in doubt, Carrawell was the guy who climbed out of the trench and charged -- everybody else followed him.

You've got to love that.

Plus, of course, as others have noted, he was a quote machine -- the most honest player in an interview I've ever seen. He was also a fun-loving guy with a great sense of humor.

I admire that of all the great Duke players, Chris (and maybe David Henderson) probably came from the toughest circumstances. I remember that he grew up without a father, but one postseason (99?) his Dad showed up at an NCAA site and tried to latch onto him. I think Chris handled that with class and dignity.

And just to be clear, although Chris did not graduate on time, he DID come back and get his degree.

Anyway, I know that the question of "favorite" Duke player is pretty subjective. I certainly wouldn't argue with somebody who grew up worshipping Art Heyman or Jeff Mullins (who was probably more popular in his day than Art). I would hate to have to vote against Hurley or Battier or Jason Williams or even Christian -- he may have been an SOB, but he was my kind of SOB.

Still, if I had to pick a No. 1 guy, Chris Carrawell gets my vote. I just wanted to explain why.

JasonEvans
10-24-2007, 04:03 PM
That was just so elloquent, OlyFan. Mad props, sir, to both you and to the subject of your writings.

-Jason

mapei
10-24-2007, 05:08 PM
I agree re OlyFan's post. But I'm going with Elton. What johnb said.

There are no "bad" choices in this poll.

OrangeDevil
10-24-2007, 05:58 PM
There have been --and for good reasons--many Duke greats and favorites, but for me Chris Carrawell is at the top!

Lord Ash
10-24-2007, 06:49 PM
Whether Chris would have left after two if it was an option or not is irrelevant when discussing which player is more favored.

But no way is he beating Shane when it comes down to it.

:)

Clipsfan
10-24-2007, 07:28 PM
I think that Brand's post-Duke career is what I largely think of when I think of him, and I really do like the way that he represents the school. C-Well was phenomenal while at Duke (and is hopefully still doing well abroad), though. I found this a really hard choice, as anyone who could guard Duncan as well as PGs was impressive. I think that the fact that Brand is still easy to pay attention to may have tipped my vote. Are we supposed to be voting on their time at Duke, or just overall?

Billy Dat
10-24-2007, 08:57 PM
GREAT POST ABOUT C-WELL.

I was at that St John's game at MSG in 1999...no doubt the most exciting moment was provided by none other then #23. Anyway, the game was back and forth coming down the stretch and C-Well somehow got the ball on the break (I know it's tough - or painful - to remember, but that team ran on EVERYONE - man, what talent that team had). He took two dribbles to roughly the foul line extended and as the defender closed in, he executed a spin move straight to the tin and finished with an emphatic one armed slam. The place went nuts! What none of these posts have mentioned was the man's dribbling - that barely in control chest high dribble - it wasn't pretty but somehow he made it work.

That wasn't his game, I never saw him pull something like that out again, but that was what he brought to the table - whatever the team needed at the right moment. I remember that SI ran a cover story on us late in February of 1999, a "Duke is Back" article. Coach K said that C-Well was the guy who made the team go, the "straw that stirs the drink". If I could pick one guy from that era that I'd like to have gotten a ring, it would have been him (and I hope Elton gets healthy enough to get back on Team USA to get a gold with Coach).

As for Elton, he looms really large in Duke lore for someone who really only played one season. But I guess the win against Carolina his freshman year when he put us on his back against Jameson, Carter, et al. counts as much as a whole year.

JBDuke
10-25-2007, 12:34 AM
I think that Brand's post-Duke career is what I largely think of when I think of him, and I really do like the way that he represents the school. C-Well was phenomenal while at Duke (and is hopefully still doing well abroad), though. I found this a really hard choice, as anyone who could guard Duncan as well as PGs was impressive. I think that the fact that Brand is still easy to pay attention to may have tipped my vote. Are we supposed to be voting on their time at Duke, or just overall?

Clipsfan, the vote is for your favorite player of the two. There are no rules for what factors into your consideration. If Elton's post-Duke success makes him your favorite over Chris, then vote for Elton.

VaDukie
10-25-2007, 12:51 AM
I can't think of C-Well and Brand together and not have 99 flashbacks, good and bad. God they were good.

JasonEvans
10-25-2007, 08:28 AM
This poll is closed. Mad props to Chris Carrawell for the first significant upset of the first round.

--Jason "and the #12 seed goes down!!" Evans

dukestheheat
10-25-2007, 09:39 AM
to Olympic Fan and Billy Dat-

those are two great stories as to 'why c-well'. i miss that guy and we desperately need that type of player (a bad-I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.) on duke to show up this year. thanks for sharing and i really enjoyed the passion of your stories,

dth.

dukestheheat
10-25-2007, 09:45 AM
Olympic Fan-

that OT reference to C-well's 30 point output versus State; I was at that game in Cameron and I sat on the baseline under the north rim. that game went to 2 OT as I recall it, and that was yet another game where i missed being a Duke student all over again.

the crazies, at the start of the first OT, were shouting 'our house'.

C-Well, after the game, rolled right down the sideline and then walked the baseline right past me; his eyes met mine and I told him great game man and he looked right at me and said 'what's up, thanks'.

he was a true warrior.

dth.