Duke @ Florida State

[Bob Green]

Duke (1-6) travels to Florida State (4-3) this weekend for a night game. We are unbeaten (1-0) in night games this year. It will take 60 minutes of error free football to extend our night game winning streak. Florida State is coming off back-to-back losses to Wake and Miami and their offense has not been impressive. On Monday, Bobby Bowden announced that Drew Weatherford would start over Xavier Lee against Duke. Weatherford is an expreienced starter who lost his job to Lee earlier in the season. Hopefully, Duke can put it all together this Saturday night and send FSU reeling to their third straight loss.

[riverside6]

For those who didn't know, this game is on ESPNU

[throatybeard]

Unbeaten in night games, huh. Too bad we never schedule them at home. :mad:

[Shammrog]

Unbeaten in night games, huh. Too bad we never schedule them at home. :mad:

I always root for our team. I love our team. But, WE DEAD.

I actually fear the Notre Dame game - they are BAD, and have had a terrible season. But, they got a whole lotta blue-chip recruits looking for someone to take "it" out on for one good blow out this season. I hope we won't need stretchers. Or body bags.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

As long as we have the better QB, we have a shot.

GO DUKE

[Troublemaker]

I always root for our team. I love our team. But, WE DEAD.

I actually fear the Notre Dame game - they are BAD, and have had a terrible season. But, they got a whole lotta blue-chip recruits looking for someone to take "it" out on for one good blow out this season. I hope we won't need stretchers. Or body bags.

Agree 100% here. I see the Irish taking out a season's worth of frustration on us.

[Clipsfan]

Agree 100% here. I see the Irish taking out a season's worth of frustration on us.

They've already beaten my other team...and I was there for that one. I'm still going to hope that Duke gets a little revenge for me.

[Patrick Yates]

Notre Dame? Seriously? That team taking out its frustrations on us is your big fear?

What about FSU? I freely admit that their O is iffy this season, but their D is still tits. After two straight losses, to WFU (again!!!) and hated rival Miami (at home, yikes), they will be ready to eat nails. There will be Seminole Defenders waiting on Duke's QB in the pocket. Our D (well, more accurately, the Noles' shakey O) will keep the game from getting really ugly. But Duke's O is in for IT, big time.

The Notre Dame game I am not worried about (at least as far as getting mauled). The VAAAAAAAST majority of those blue chip recruits are on Offense. They're D is pitiful. The Domers D couldn't mount a serious pass rush unless the other team elected to play without any blockers, period. Their O talent is green, and has to be suffering from doubts right now. But, they have talent, enough so to win, at least at home. Still, their D is luaghable. It could be a high scoring affair.

In the (highly) unlikely chance we beat the Domers, Irish Fans will at least start to publicly question (privately, this thought has to have come up) if Weiss is the guy to do it. So, I have to think that the Irish are really gearing up for Duke. Laying a beating on us is really the only acceptable outcome for them. Even a close win over the Devils would be viewed as a loss (kind of like ekeing out a home win over Miami or WFU in hoops this year) by many fans. South Bend will be loud early. The first few minutes are key. If Duke can be competitive early, the doubts will start to gnaw at the Irish and their fans (and maybe a few boobirds will come out, cause there is an outside chance some of those fans might be drunk). Then we have a chance.

I highly doubt it, but a chance.

But Saturday is a done deal. FSU by a lot.

Patrick Yates

[Shammrog]

Notre Dame? Seriously? That team taking out its frustrations on us is your big fear?

What about FSU? I freely admit that their O is iffy this season, but their D is still tits. After two straight losses, to WFU (again!!!) and hated rival Miami (at home, yikes), they will be ready to eat nails. There will be Seminole Defenders waiting on Duke's QB in the pocket. Our D (well, more accurately, the Noles' shakey O) will keep the game from getting really ugly. But Duke's O is in for IT, big time.

The Notre Dame game I am not worried about (at least as far as getting mauled). The VAAAAAAAST majority of those blue chip recruits are on Offense. They're D is pitiful. The Domers D couldn't mount a serious pass rush unless the other team elected to play without any blockers, period. Their O talent is green, and has to be suffering from doubts right now. But, they have talent, enough so to win, at least at home. Still, their D is luaghable. It could be a high scoring affair.

In the (highly) unlikely chance we beat the Domers, Irish Fans will at least start to publicly question (privately, this thought has to have come up) if Weiss is the guy to do it. So, I have to think that the Irish are really gearing up for Duke. Laying a beating on us is really the only acceptable outcome for them. Even a close win over the Devils would be viewed as a loss (kind of like ekeing out a home win over Miami or WFU in hoops this year) by many fans. South Bend will be loud early. The first few minutes are key. If Duke can be competitive early, the doubts will start to gnaw at the Irish and their fans (and maybe a few boobirds will come out, cause there is an outside chance some of those fans might be drunk). Then we have a chance.

I highly doubt it, but a chance.

But Saturday is a done deal. FSU by a lot.

Patrick Yates

Correction: Notre Dame will take out their frustration on the surviving players we have after the FSU game.

[YmoBeThere]

Almost too much going on up my way to pay attention: Red Sox, Pats, Celts getting ready to play, and of course this weekend Va Tech at BC. Doesn't appear our game(Duke at FSU) will be broadcast on Yahoo! which is usually how I listen/hear what is going on. Anyone else know where I might be able to listen for free?

[tombrady]

Almost too much going on up my way to pay attention: Red Sox, Pats, Celts getting ready to play, and of course this weekend Va Tech at BC. Doesn't appear our game(Duke at FSU) will be broadcast on Yahoo! which is usually how I listen/hear what is going on. Anyone else know where I might be able to listen for free?

VT-BC game is tonight.

[SoCalDukeFan]

I always root for our team. I love our team. But, WE DEAD.

I actually fear the Notre Dame game - they are BAD, and have had a terrible season. But, they got a whole lotta blue-chip recruits looking for someone to take "it" out on for one good blow out this season. I hope we won't need stretchers. Or body bags.

First of all I generally think that it is a mistake to look beyond the upcoming game. I certainly expect the team and coaches are focused on FSU and next week will focus on Clemson and then will think about Notre Dame. However since I will away from the Internet for 20 days starting tomorrow, then I break my own rule.

It is also a mistake to think you "know" how a college football will turn out. In a year when lowly ranked Stanford beats #1 ranked USC at USC and App State beats #5 Michigan at Michigan then certainly anything can happen.

A friend who is a BIG Notre Dame fan (he has season tickets and lives in the Los Angeles area) tells me that Willingham recruited poorly. So the 3rd and 4th year players are not strong. Weis got a late start his first year, so the 2nd year players are not strong. The freshmen and 5th year guys are. Weis did well the last two years with Davies' recruits. So he thinks, maybe looking at it with rose colored glasses, that Notre Dame will be fine in the future with Weis.

This years Notre Dame team is pretty bad. When they beat UCLA at UCLA, UCLA was playing without their 1st or 2nd team quarterback and was using a walk-on.

I disagree with some others and think that Notre Dame has a better defense than offense. They played USC pretty well for a quarter or so. Their offense did nothing.

We can certainly beat Notre Dame. Of course we need to be healthy. We also need to keep from turning the ball over as I think we can stop their offense. There is a chance that Weis will turn the team around and they will beat Navy and Air Force and have some mo.

Its fun to be looking forward to playing Notre Dame and not be dreading the game.

SoCal

[chrishoke]

The world as we know it will come to an end if we beat FSU or ND in football. But we can always hope. I'll be glued to the TV or radio.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Almost too much going on up my way to pay attention: Red Sox, Pats, Celts getting ready to play, and of course this weekend Va Tech at BC. Doesn't appear our game(Duke at FSU) will be broadcast on Yahoo! which is usually how I listen/hear what is going on. Anyone else know where I might be able to listen for free?

It will be telecast on ESPNU at 8:00 p.m. on Saturday night. If you have satellite or cable that carries ESPNU and you subscribe to it, you can watch it. I've got the DVR set so I can watch it after getting home from the B/W game.

[Wander]

I disagree with some others and think that Notre Dame has a better defense than offense. They played USC pretty well for a quarter or so. Their offense did nothing.


You're completely right. No one who's actually paying attention thinks that ND's offense is better than it's defense. You can pick five DBR posters at random and put them as ND's offensive line and the unit would improve.

We may very well get blown out by FSU, but I see no reason to think that's a guarantee. They're a mediocre team. If we can be competitive with Miami and Wake Forest - two teams that are better than FSU - there isn't any reason to think we can't be competitive with FSU.

[YmoBeThere]

VT-BC game is tonight.

Mentally, my weekend just started....now. I was a bit off on the date.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

The reason FSU has lost its last two is that they're not that great. I don't think they're any different than any other team with 3 or so losses in the ACC. We had good chances to beat Wake and Miami. Both of those teams beat FSU. Why can't we beat FSU?

[YmoBeThere]

Looks like they will be broadcasting the game over Yahoo!, the icon was there when I looked this morning.

[4decadedukie]

I have been on extensive travel during the last two weeks and have been unable to remain current with DBR posts; accordingly, I apologize if this is redundant.

Tonight's Duke - Florida State football game will be carried live on ESPN-U (8:00 Eastern).

[throatybeard]

Why can't we beat FSU?

Because we're a lot worse than those other teams.

BTW, what is up with FSU's all-black unis. Freaky.

[Bob Green]

4:08 left in the 1st half and Duke is down 6-0. FSU just missed a FG. If we can hang around, you never know.....

[formerdukeathlete]

4:08 left in the 1st half and Duke is down 6-0. FSU just missed a FG. If we can hang around, you never know.....

2 passes were off target, miss-thrown, and we were 3 and done.

[chrishoke]

9-0 at half - less than 50 yards offense

[Bob Green]

Well it is 16-0 now so the game is starting to slip away. We need to mount a momentum changing touchdown drive or this game is going to be over.

[YmoBeThere]

Looks like at 22-0 with little to no offense, this one could be over.

[chrishoke]

Looks like at 22-0 with little to no offense, this one could be over.

it was over when the chief stuck his flaming spear at the 50 before kickoff

[throatybeard]

9-0 at half - less than 50 yards offense

You give me that, and I say the score is better than I thought we'd do.

[chrishoke]

You give me that, and I say the score is better than I thought we'd do.

another sign of the great improvement of our football team. i need a therapist

[Uncle Drew]

While listening to the game tonight on Yahoo, one thing became crystal clear about Duke football. Vince Oghobaase had a MONSTER game and outplayed his team mates as well as every player in an FSU uniform. As the only five star (that I know of) recruit in Duke football history it shows how much difference in talent there is between a five star and a two or three star. While we are all disappointed in another L in the loss column. I hope Oghobaase's performance didn't go unnoticed by the fans, media and his team. This guy is going to be playing on Sundays, mark my words! When other schools are getting 3, 4, 5.....10 five stars EVERY year; it's easy to see why Duke is having a hard time playing catch up. (And those guys often sit out a season red shirting.) Great game Vince, you played like a champion even if your team didn't win.

[CameronBlue]

When other schools are getting 3, 4, 5.....10 five stars EVERY year; it's easy to see why Duke is having a hard time playing catch up. (And those guys often sit out a season red shirting.) Great game Vince, you played like a champion even if your team didn't win.

This is what the more critical fans are tired of hearing but what remains the immutable truth about Duke football. Others performed admirably as well, judging by the radio broadcast, Chris Davis, Mike T. I'm sure the "experts" will brutalize Roof for the anemic offense however.

[YmoBeThere]

This is what the more critical fans are tired of hearing but what remains the immutable truth about Duke football.

Though I don't follow the college football recruiting services, we aren't the only school to face this issue are we? One on our schedule that I would guess is in the same boat is Navy, another I would throw out is Vanderbilt. Or how about Wake Forest? And the team we beat, Northwestern? Are we really that unique in this situation?

[chrishoke]

Though I don't follow the college football recruiting services, we aren't the only school to face this issue are we? One on our schedule that I would guess is in the same boat is Navy, another I would throw out is Vanderbilt. Or how about Wake Forest? And the team we beat, Northwestern? Are we really that unique in this situation?

No, we are not - and Wake Forest, with no 5 star players, has beaten the b ig bad noles 2 years in a role, last shutting them out.

[arnie]

Who cares about improvement this year since we are "bowling" in 2008!! I can't wait because we will beat many teams next year that we could not compete with this year. I hear the restrooms may be improved next year also.

Thank God we have JA at the helm

[Uncle Drew]

Though I don't follow the college football recruiting services, we aren't the only school to face this issue are we? One on our schedule that I would guess is in the same boat is Navy, another I would throw out is Vanderbilt. Or how about Wake Forest? And the team we beat, Northwestern? Are we really that unique in this situation?

No, Duke is certainly not alone in having difficulty recruiting 5 star recruits. And the truth is being able to consistently bring in multiple five star recruits every year is the rarity in college football. (And even then not a guarantee of BCS games, see FSU, Penn St, ND.) And there is something to be said for signing a 2, 3 or 4 star recruit and teaching that guy to be the best player he can be by his senior year. Every school is also looking for diamonds in the rough who might end up being an NFL level player eventually. But you watch games and you can see Vince has talent you are born with and he has trained and studied to be the player he is. You can sign a circus midget and he can be dedicated to improving, but he's never going to attain that special player level. Vince and that type of player have God given talent and strength. (And in Vince's case intelligence!)

I'm not bashing the rest of the team or the coaching staff at all. I honestly believe they want to win and leave it all on the field every Saturday. But you give Coach K, John Wooden or Dean Smith some less talented players and they aren't going to have the records they have. Remove a Bill Walton, Christian Laettner or James Worthy from their stable of players and all the coaching in the world isn't going to add up to the same amount of wins the seasons they played. It works the same way in football, but on a MUCH larger scale and a LOT more holes to fill. A team may be as strong as it's weakest link, but a few "special" players can elevate a teams strength. It's a lot easier to do in basketball where one guy can make a huge difference. As for Wake, Vandy, Navy and Northwestern. Look at their records over the last 25 years and they aren't much better than Duke's. Sure they have won a conference title once or twice and maybe played in a bowl game. 1989 was a good year for Duke, so was a few years later under Goldsmith. But compare those schools over the same period of time with the FSU's, NB's, and OSU's out there and recruiting "special" players is the main reason they have had more success than failure.

[YmoBeThere]

Just a point of reference on where we were in 2003. Not a fan of Doyel's(okay, I'm a Doyel hater) but it brings up several points that I have found interesting:

http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegefootball/story/6820878

1) We are on the exact same trajectory we were under Franks
2) Barry Wilson and Fred Goldsmith both had better records than I recalled. Sure you can debate Goldsmith's first year, but if you attribute it to Barry Wilson, then I think you should attribute Carl Franks first season to Goldsmith
3) Many more coaches were interested in the job than many of us would have believed. Are they Pete Carroll, et al.? Nope...but interest nonetheless.
4) I think 3-4 wins a season is a reasonable expectation
5) Would you ever really want to do what Greg Doyel says to do?

Also, while you note a 25 year cycle, I think that time frame is much too large to compare what is going on in college football. Programs are rising and falling in much faster cycles. See Arizona in the mid 90's. Also, as their coaches have aged and changed, some of the traditional powers have struggled in recent years, creating opportunities for others: a) FSU, b)PSU, c)ND, d)Miami.

Does anyone know our record versus similarly challenged schools over the last 10 years? I don't have detailed win losses by opponent over that time frame. I got a program at the Duke VA Tech game this year but was disappointed it didn't have more information on our historical performance.

[Uncle Drew]

Just a point of reference on where we were in 2003. Not a fan of Doyel's(okay, I'm a Doyel hater) but it brings up several points that I have found interesting:

http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegefootball/story/6820878

1) We are on the exact same trajectory we were under Franks
2) Barry Wilson and Fred Goldsmith both had better records than I recalled. Sure you can debate Goldsmith's first year, but if you attribute it to Barry Wilson, then I think you should attribute Carl Franks first season to Goldsmith
3) Many more coaches were interested in the job than many of us would have believed. Are they Pete Carroll, et al.? Nope...but interest nonetheless.
4) I think 3-4 wins a season is a reasonable expectation
5) Would you ever really want to do what Greg Doyel says to do?

Also, while you note a 25 year cycle, I think that time frame is much too large to compare what is going on in college football. Programs are rising and falling in much faster cycles. See Arizona in the mid 90's. Also, as their coaches have aged and changed, some of the traditional powers have struggled in recent years, creating opportunities for others: a) FSU, b)PSU, c)ND, d)Miami.

Does anyone know our record versus similarly challenged schools over the last 10 years? I don't have detailed win losses by opponent over that time frame. I got a program at the Duke VA Tech game this year but was disappointed it didn't have more information on our historical performance.

All your points and questions are valid and worth looking into. The reason I used a time period like the last 25 years is, to be quite frank Duke football has been in a rut for 25 years with the exception of a few years. The truth is Duke football has been in a rut my entire lifetime or at least mediocre. In my opinion the last really good Duke football team was probably it's last bowl winner in what 1976? While we look back on the Spurrier years with fondness they weren't dominant for the most part. (Co-ACC champions in 1989 and actually 2nd since they lost to UVA) Yes the Franks years were a disaster and the Roof years have been frustrating for staff, teams and fans. My point is Duke has seldom gotten stellar talent like Ben Bennett, Ray Farmer and Clarkston Hines. And when they did it seems they managed one guy on a team against teams with 5-10 future Sunday players.
Okay Roof and staff deserve some blame with play calling which was very apparent yesterday. But the talent drop off when comparing Duke to the other schools is obvious, and glaring when compared to the USC's, Ohio State etc. If Duke has been average at best for 25 years the University itself deserves most of the blame. Even Ray Charles could see they have given up on fielding a good / great football team and competing every Saturday. And I'm not even talking about spending Butch Davis type money on a coach. Truth be told I think Coach K fell into their lap, ended up being a great coach and the basketball program something special or they wouldn't care about that either. I'm proud Duke focuses on teaching their student athletes and prepares them for a non athletic career. I'd just like to see them commit the school to being as good on the field in ALL sports as they are in the classroom.
3-4 wins is an improvement, calling it satisfactory is selling the program, players and fans short. With that mind set, why even try? I'm not talking national championship here. But if Duke University's goal is to win 3-4 games a year and leave it at that then this site will always be DBR and never DAR! (Duke Athletic Report!)

[jimsumner]

1976? Last bowl win?

Try 1960.

The last two Spurrier teams were good as was Goldsmith's first.

Try this.

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=620497&SPID=1843&SPSID=22672

[YmoBeThere]

3-4 wins is an improvement, calling it satisfactory is selling the program, players and fans short. With that mind set, why even try? I'm not talking national championship here. But if Duke University's goal is to win 3-4 games a year and leave it at that then this site will always be DBR and never DAR! (Duke Athletic Report!)

The goal is always to win every game every time you play, it never is less. But reality tends to intrude and creates what some would call expectations. If we get back to 3-4 wins a year for more than a couple years, then I think we start talking about what is needed to get to the next level after that. While I applaud your mind set, as you point out, it doesn't jibe at all with what has occured over the last 25 years(with some minor exceptions). Our inability to get to 3-4 wins a season for more than a single year since '98-'99 is what I am frustrated at. I thought this year we had a chance at starting a streak of seasons at that level.

[mapei]

Does anyone know our record versus similarly challenged schools over the last 10 years? I don't have detailed win losses by opponent over that time frame. I got a program at the Duke VA Tech game this year but was disappointed it didn't have more information on our historical performance.

I wonder why.

[Bob Green]

Does anyone know our record versus similarly challenged schools over the last 10 years? I don't have detailed win losses by opponent over that time frame. I got a program at the Duke VA Tech game this year but was disappointed it didn't have more information on our historical performance.

Over the previous ten full seasons, plus the eight games this year, our record is 19-102. The 19 victories have come against:

Navy (twice), Clemson (twice), Wake Forest (twice), Northwestern (twice), Western Carolina (twice), Army, Maryland, Virginia, East Carolina, UNC, Georgia Tech, Rice, The Citadel, & Virginia Military Institute.

Here is a nice database (http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Duke.htm) to look at historical performances.

[YmoBeThere]

Thanks for the database link, I'll at least be able to have high level W-L statistics.

[JasonEvans]

If Duke has been average at best for 25 years the University itself deserves most of the blame. Even Ray Charles could see they have given up on fielding a good / great football team and competing every Saturday. And I'm not even talking about spending Butch Davis type money on a coach. Truth be told I think Coach K fell into their lap, ended up being a great coach and the basketball program something special or they wouldn't care about that either. I'm proud Duke focuses on teaching their student athletes and prepares them for a non athletic career. I'd just like to see them commit the school to being as good on the field in ALL sports as they are in the classroom.
3-4 wins is an improvement, calling it satisfactory is selling the program, players and fans short. With that mind set, why even try? I'm not talking national championship here. But if Duke University's goal is to win 3-4 games a year and leave it at that then this site will always be DBR and never DAR! (Duke Athletic Report!)

Just to be clear, you are aware that Duke has one of the best athletic departments in all of college, right? We are extremely competitive (in national title hunt) in several non-revenue sports every year like golf, tennis, lacrosse, and soccer. Our baseball and football teams have been bad for a while now but we really excell in several other sports.

I really take issue with the notion that we lucked into Coach K and would not otherwise be committed to basketball. Duke's basketball history was rich and quite succcessful before K arrived on campus.

-Jason "all that said, I want to be on the record as NOT BEING AN ALLEVA FAN!" Evans

[Shammrog]

Were any of our players killed, eaten, and/or robbed during Saturday's game?

[YmoBeThere]

No, not sure sure how the kittens, puppies, and kids did...

[Uncle Drew]

Just to be clear, you are aware that Duke has one of the best athletic departments in all of college, right? We are extremely competitive (in national title hunt) in several non-revenue sports every year like golf, tennis, lacrosse, and soccer. Our baseball and football teams have been bad for a while now but we really excel in several other sports.

I really take issue with the notion that we lucked into Coach K and would not otherwise be committed to basketball. Duke's basketball history was rich and quite successful before K arrived on campus.

-Jason "all that said, I want to be on the record as NOT BEING AN ALLEVA FAN!" Evans

Jason I'm aware of how good Duke is in Lacrosse, Tennis, Golf, Soccer etc. Duke's first national championship was a soccer championship in 1986. I remember it well because I remember a UNC grad sportscaster saying it should ease the sting of losing to Louisville in the 1986 championship game. (Sorry, glad they won.....but losing to Louisville eats at my craw to this day!) And I'm proud of Duke's other athletic programs (male and female) for excelling on the court / field. That being said when Duke wins a golf national title, is there a huge bonfire on the quad? When Duke wins a soccer title most of us find out about it in the paper the next day. (For the record losing in the title game in lacrosse several years back before LAX, rubbed me raw.)

When Foster left a lot of fans and alums thought they should have gone after a coach with a name and a proven record. And those same fans and alumni wanted Coach K gone after his 1st two years. Thank God Coach K ended up becoming the legend he did, but it was still a gamble on Duke's part that ended up being the winning lotto numbers. In my opinion Duke has taken the same "gamble" when hiring football coaches since Spurrier. (And Spurrier was a gamble too.) And for whatever reason those gambles have resulted in a bunch of scratch offs that didn't even win another ticket. Duke has a rich history in Football too Jason, just like basketball. I for one however have only heard stories and wasn't alive to see it. (A bowl win anyway.)

I'll give you two more examples only of the light blue (yuk!) variety. When Guthridge (indirectly responsible for the fall off) retired and they couldn't get Williams (a proven winner) they hired Coach Doh! Now in my opinion, the guy was a good coach and if it hadn't been for the mutiny might have won a national title. But an 8-20 season happened and they kicked him to the curb for Williams. Since Mack Brown left UNC has hired two "gambles" and their program isn't in much better shape than Duke's now. I'm not saying Davis is going to turn it around and they will win the national title in five years. (God I hope not!) But I'll bet you they start having winning seasons and most of all get some 4 and 5 star recruits!

I assure you I know of Dukes success before Coach K, I was a Duke fan before he ever arrived. And being raised in a household where if you didn't pull for Duke you didn't eat I know about their rich basketball AND football history before I was born. (My dad was at the Durham Rose Bowl, why I use the program cover as my icon!) I'll put it this way. You aren't going to win the Daytona 500 with a blind mute crew chief and three model T Fords. I like Coach Roof a lot and I hope he turns things around and pulls in more high caliber recruits like Vince. But if he can't Duke needs to find someone who can and pay them what they are worth, plain and simple. Stop panning for diamonds and go buy a nice rock.

[arnie]

"Just to be clear, you are aware that Duke has one of the best athletic departments in all of college, right? We are extremely competitive (in national title hunt) in several non-revenue sports every year like golf, tennis, lacrosse, and soccer. Our baseball and football teams have been bad for a while now but we really excell in several other sports."

Jason, just to be clear, it appears you would feel the same way if we were horrible in men's BBALL, but great in women's track. Stating that Duke has one of the best athletic departments in all of college is absurd (as viewed from the fan base) when you consider that only 4 sports really draw any attention (Football, Mens BBALL, Baseball and Women's BBALL). We have been really horrible in 2 of those for a long time. A typical school will have 50,000+ at a football game and probably 100 at a women's golf match. I can see a fan support difference in that stat.

[RelativeWays]

I have to admit that I really had hopes for this game. FSU was looking particularly week this year with its lone decent win coming against Alabama (I think they beat Colorado too). To be fair, I think the defense did ok, limiting the noles to mostly fieldgoals except in the 1st quarter. Im surpised that the offense under performed. FSU does not have the defense VT does and duke at least got two touchdowns on them. Maybe the Georgia Tech game will be better.

[dukie8]

"Just to be clear, you are aware that Duke has one of the best athletic departments in all of college, right? We are extremely competitive (in national title hunt) in several non-revenue sports every year like golf, tennis, lacrosse, and soccer. Our baseball and football teams have been bad for a while now but we really excell in several other sports."

Jason, just to be clear, it appears you would feel the same way if we were horrible in men's BBALL, but great in women's track. Stating that Duke has one of the best athletic departments in all of college is absurd (as viewed from the fan base) when you consider that only 4 sports really draw any attention (Football, Mens BBALL, Baseball and Women's BBALL). We have been really horrible in 2 of those for a long time. A typical school will have 50,000+ at a football game and probably 100 at a women's golf match. I can see a fan support difference in that stat.

baseball and women's bball don't have fan bases anywhere in the ballpark of men's bball and football. have you been to a baseball game? there is a smattering of fans in the neighborhood of (or probably less than) that seen at a soccer or lax game. women's bball only fills up cis several times a year and most of the people in attendance go for free (you can't really call it a sell-out when most people aren't paying for their tix). i would argue that lax has the 3rd biggest fan base. i believe that the lax final 4 this year had more people in attendance than any other sport than football games at major schools.

[Wander]

baseball and women's bball don't have fan bases anywhere in the ballpark of men's bball and football. have you been to a baseball game? there is a smattering of fans in the neighborhood of (or probably less than) that seen at a soccer or lax game. women's bball only fills up cis several times a year and most of the people in attendance go for free (you can't really call it a sell-out when most people aren't paying for their tix). i would argue that lax has the 3rd biggest fan base. i believe that the lax final 4 this year had more people in attendance than any other sport than football games at major schools.

Depends on the school.

[dukie8]

Depends on the school.

no it doesn't. the discussion is about duke.

[arnie]

Thanks Wander - I thought the discussion was based on truly great athletic departments. Of course Duke draws more to a lacrosse game than a baseball game - our baseball program previously led by JA's buddy Hiller has been horrible.

The 4 sports nationally with by far the most attention are the 4 I listed - check the number of national broadcasts for each. A very limited number of programs nationally even have a lacrosse team. As a long time fan of football, I feel like I am an in a distinct minority on this board - as most of the DBR posters don't believe success in football is particularly relevant.

[JasonEvans]

(portions redacted for lack of civility and an attack on a fellow poster)

As a long time fan of football, I feel like I am an in a distinct minority on this board - as most of the DBR posters don't believe success in football is particularly relevant.

Ummm, way to twist my words around. Where did you get that I ever said that?!?!!?

You and a couple other posters in this thread are accusing me of some strange stuff. Go back a re-read my post. I was responding to someone who appeared to say that Duke does not care about any athletics and only got lucky when we hired Coach K or we would stink at basketball too. My response was to show that Duke is among the best in the nation at several non-revenue sports and has what is widely regarded as one of the stronger athletic programs in the nation (as indicated by our very strong showings in the former Sears Cup for the past several years).

What I find very strange is that you would chose to distort and attack a poster who is also a moderator. I mean, do you want to earn infraction points?

--Jason "I do not take having my words twisted lightly" Evans

[grossbus]

jason, shouldn't you have said that you don't take lightly having your words twisted? the way you wrote it could be interpreted as a request for a heavy twist.

:)