MBB: Duke 87, Pitt 52 Post-Game Thread

[JBDuke]

Put your post-game thoughts here.

[weezie]

Ready for MOTM?!

[karmacoma]

Very solid performance aside from the opening 8 minutes of the second half. Really pumped about the bench contributions on both ends of the floor. Great road win, one I hope our guys will build off of.

[dukelifer]

Put your post-game thoughts here.

We did not learn a lot because Pitt is pretty bad, but JRob was impressive and can certainly contribute while Bolden and Javin heal up. He has excellent timing, seems to know where to be on D and can hit from deep when open. Allen was better but not great. Trent was good late. I still think AOC is the best shooter on the team. K used his bench- got a little more intensity on D. Will know more after the Wake game.

[accfanfrom1970]

Hard to say anything bad. No Bolden or Javin but bench still played well against inferior opponent. Still worried about Grayson. Would love to see him go off. Happy with outcome and play from starters and Robinson/White et al.

[DBGoins]

Where was javin tonight? Maybe they mentioned something in the first half but didn’t hear it.

[dukelifer]

Where was javin tonight? Maybe they mentioned something in the first half but didn’t hear it.
Bad hamstring

[JetpackJesus]

Where was javin tonight? Maybe they mentioned something in the first half but didn’t hear it.

Bolden and Javin out today with injuries.

[jipops]

A decisive ACC win! I'll take it, no matter who it is.

Interesting that we went stagnant for the first few minutes of the 2nd, but ratcheted up the intensity once Pitt had a mini-run. Of course we also went zone and that seemed to help in forcing turnovers. Would be nice to see us turn teams over like this going forward.

[Neals384]

Two surprisingly strong games from White and Robinson off the bench.

[karmacoma]

Very solid performance aside from the opening 8 minutes of the second half. Really pumped about the bench contributions on both ends of the floor. Great road win, one I hope our guys will build off of.

One gripe: 7 for 18 from the stripe needs to be improved upon. 40% won't get it done v. better opposition.

[MartyClark]

Grayson may be the key to this team's success. He played pretty well tonight but continued a bad streak of outside shooting.

I'd like to see them run a few plays for him.

Fun to see the guys who don't play much. Robinson had a great game.

Go Duke.

[ipatent]

Like what Robinson brings to the lineup, outside shooting and rim protection.

[CameronBlue]

Two surprisingly strong games from White and Robinson off the bench.

I thought White had a 3--ESPN box score credits him for 0-1 from the field.

[DukieInBrasil]

Loved seeing everybody play meaningful minutes. 22 points off the bench.
Loved seeing the defensive intensity right from the tip, even if it faded some in the second half.
New career high for J-Rob!!!

[ncexnyc]

Nice to see Robinson throw his hat into the ring for 6th man. That's probably going to be the story for this team the remainder of the year. Which kid steps-up to cement that position.

[WVDUKEFAN]

Grayson Allen 2-9 from deep range. Again. What's going on? He's gotta start hitting.

[ipatent]

I thought White had a 3--ESPN box score credits him for 0-1 from the field.

Don't remember that, but he had a few nice offensive boards and looked composed out there.

[weezie]

Not to mention Laphnso Ellis giving K props for not getting credit for being a"good Xs and Os" coach. Yes, the wins are impressive but K just doesn't get enough acknowledgement per Laphons

Lolol, that was funny.

Hang in there K.

[left_hook_lacey]

Wow. Pitt is bad. Like really bad. I had heard they were pretty weak this year but hadn't watched them play yet. It wouldn't surprise me if they win only one conference game all year. Maybe two.

It looked like we were playing a DIII team out there.

[Fish80]

Grayson Allen 2-9 from deep range. Again. What's going on? He's gotta start hitting.

No worries. He is a good shooter. His shot will come back.

[Bob Green]

We beat an overmatched opponent; however, there were several positives:

1. Bench production
2. Intensity
3. > 40 percent on 3PT FGs

Grayson Allen going 2-9 from deep really skewed the team's 3PT FG performance. Take away his shots (made and missed), and Duke was 10-20 (50%). Grayson's touch will return all he has to do is keep shooting.

I thought Bagley and Carter fed off each other a bit tonight. When those two are complementing each other inside our frontcourt is a load.

[uh_no]

Grayson Allen 2-9 from deep range. Again. What's going on? He's gotta start hitting.

a lot of his looks from the outside aren't clean. he rarely gets catch and shoot.

[weezie]

Grayson Allen...What's going on?

He's playing as captain. He's the real floor general and he's defending and rebounding like a boss. He's being Quinn right now. The end is the means. It's all going to be fine.

[UrinalCake]

I don’t want to overreact to this win by taking away any more than I would from our wins against the likes of South Dakota or Utah Valley. But it was nice to get the “ACC Road Win” monkey off our backs. Loved the energy from everyone, the bench guys played hard and it was infectious. Guys were committed on D and played with energy that was missing against NC State. Also was pleased to see Bagley keep his composure when things started getting chippy.

If I had to point to some negatives (which is hard to do in a 35-pt win) I would say Carter picking up four fouls early was disappointing as that’s been a recurring issue for him, and our defensive rebounding was poor at times. But all in all a satisfying game to watch. Need to keep it up against Wake and then we have a quick turnaround to head to Miami.

[mgtr]

Duke needed this game. It builds confidence, particularly among the rare subs. Robinson was good, O'Connell was fairly good. I think Bagley learned that he cannot give 50% or he will get blocked. Six players in double figures. Not bad.

[weezie]

Not to forget that Carter came back after the ankle roll, too. Whew.

[Pghdukie]

A good "team effort". Surely something to build on. Foul shooting not good. 1st half defense was great. Bagley was getting mauled in 2nd half. A win is a win !
An announced crowd of 9,100 - of which half were Duke fans. A very good turnout.

[BigZ]

Read nothing into it. Duke blew out inferior opponents before their loses

[BigZ]

a lot of his looks from the outside aren't clean. he rarely gets catch and shoot.

Two of the threes went directly in and out of the hoop

[ipatent]

Read nothing into it. Duke blew out inferior opponents before their loses

Better than losing to the inferior opponent.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Read nothing into it. Duke blew out inferior opponents before their loses

Yeah. Our team suxxx.

--strange reaction to a big road win--

[DukieInBrasil]

I really like seeing Trent hunt his jumper instead of just trying to get 3s. That was one of the criticisms of GTJr after the 1st exhibition game: "the dreaded long 2pt jumper, it'll kill his efficiency...he's gotta shoot more 3s". As time has gone on, he continues to take a relatively high % of his shots from 3, and he makes them at a not unreasonable clip. I'm not arguing that he shouldn't take 3s nor that he shouldn't take as many open ones as he gets. Nothing helps a shooter more than seeing one go in, and if he hunting more 2pt shots helps him get on track, i'd like to see more of that. His first make tonight was a 3, then missed a few, and in between made several nice 2pt shots, before making his final 3. That seems like a good balance to me.

[Kedsy]

Wow. Pitt is bad. Like really bad. I had heard they were pretty weak this year but hadn't watched them play yet. It wouldn't surprise me if they win only one conference game all year. Maybe two.

It looked like we were playing a DIII team out there.

I'll be surprised if Pitt wins any ACC games. For most of the game, they didn't look any better than our DII pre-season opponents.

I said this in the Duke Defense thread, but we gave up a ton of three-attempts. If Pitt had hit threes at their usual percentage and we had turned them over at our usual percentage (we had a pretty good TO rate of 23.6% tonight, much better than our season average), our dRtg for the game would not have been very good. As it was, neither of those things happened, so our dRtg was pretty good, and we're back in Pomeroy's top 100 (92nd), defensively. So thank goodness for small favors, but I don't think our defensive problems are solved yet.

Justin and Jack played really well, but expecting either of them to play in competitive games is asking for disappointment. K almost always plays the bench in games he expects to win by 25+, and this game looked like garbage time by the first timeout of the first half.

On the good side, a pretty dominant offensive performance. 21 assists to 6 turnovers, a game eFG% of 62.5%, and an amazing offensive rebounding performance (51.7% OR%). And all that with our bench playing 70 minutes. Just think how good it might have been if we could have hit a free throw.

Overall, it's great to win an ACC road game by 35 points. Miami only won by 14 at Pitt, so who knows.

[ipatent]

Justin and Jack played really well, but expecting either of them to play in competitive games is asking for disappointment. K almost always plays the bench in games he expects to win by 25+, and this game looked like garbage time by the first timeout of the first half.

A little different situation tonight with Bolden and DeLaurier out, at least one of them probably would have played even if the game was close.

[Kedsy]

A little different situation tonight with Bolden and DeLaurier out, at least one of them probably would have played even if the game was close.

I don't know. Maybe. I'll be surprised if it happens that way.

[TruBlu]

Pitt fans shouting “Bagley suxxx” during the game - trying to become the new Maryland of the ACC. They need to step it up a little by insulting someone’s younger sister, throwing water bottles and heated coins, and mixing in a riot or two.

But it’s a good start.

[Kedsy]

Pitt fans shouting “Bagley suxxx” during the game - trying to become the new Maryland of the ACC. They need to step it up a little by insulting someone’s younger sister, throwing water bottles and heated coins, and mixing in a riot or two.

But it’s a good start.

I was more impressed by the fans chanting "overrated" when they were down by 21.

[CDu]

I was more impressed by the fans chanting "overrated" when they were down by 21.

That was easily my favorite moment of the game.

[Pghdukie]

That was easily my favorite moment of the game.

My favorite moment was when Carter re-entered the game !

[dukelifer]

I'll be surprised if Pitt wins any ACC games. For most of the game, they didn't look any better than our DII pre-season opponents.

I said this in the Duke Defense thread, but we gave up a ton of three-attempts. If Pitt had hit threes at their usual percentage and we had turned them over at our usual percentage (we had a pretty good TO rate of 23.6% tonight, much better than our season average), our dRtg for the game would not have been very good. As it was, neither of those things happened, so our dRtg was pretty good, and we're back in Pomeroy's top 100 (92nd), defensively. So thank goodness for small favors, but I don't think our defensive problems are solved yet.

Justin and Jack played really well, but expecting either of them to play in competitive games is asking for disappointment. K almost always plays the bench in games he expects to win by 25+, and this game looked like garbage time by the first timeout of the first half.

On the good side, a pretty dominant offensive performance. 21 assists to 6 turnovers, a game eFG% of 62.5%, and an amazing offensive rebounding performance (51.7% OR%). And all that with our bench playing 70 minutes. Just think how good it might have been if we could have hit a free throw.

Overall, it's great to win an ACC road game by 35 points. Miami only won by 14 at Pitt, so who knows.

With two bigs out (and maybe a gimpy Carter)- I bet JRob plays some more in the next week. He is a better option than Vrank.

[ipatent]

My favorite moment was when Carter re-entered the game !

Let's hope it doesn't turn into another nagging injury.

[devildeac]

Couldn't respond to fdd, OPK and Heyman in the pre-game/in-game thread so here goes:

To fdd: I don't like fries on sammiches either but thought I'd post something Pittsburghian in that thread:o. But OPK is correct that those sammiches are good for business :o.
To OPK: See above. Thanks.
To Heyman: Luckily, there are a buncha Primanti Brothers joints scattered around the northeast/midwest/Florida. Unluckily, I've never eaten at one :o.

[kAzE]

Good win. Loved seeing J-Rob and Jack White making some good plays, but I can't get too excited about it, since I don't think we really learned much from this game. However, it's gotta feel nice to finally get a win on the road.

I was kind of disappointed by the so called "zoo" student section at Pitt. Very generic chants and insults . . . you guys sure we're the ones who are overrated? :)

[Saratoga2]

With two bigs out (and maybe a gimpy Carter)- I bet JRob plays some more in the next week. He is a better option than Vrank.

I agree with that. Vrank, while huge and experienced is just slow and doesn't get off the floor.

We did have very good games from bench players with Robinson, White and O'Connell doing very well. Robinson doesn't appear to be the greatest athlete, but he is good sized at 6'9" and is a smooth shooter. He has some experience so can help on the defensive side. White is very active and is a strong young player and can hold his own with the guys that Pitt could put on the floor. O'Connell is quite a skilled played and an excellent athlete. He plays better defense than he is given credit for and is a very capable shooter. He defers on the shot but when he does try to score he is effective. I didn't mention Goldwire as he cramped up before I had much chance to appraise his play.

It's nice to have three effective subs get a chance to play on the road for significant minutes against an ACC opponent, however weak. Isn't it what quite a few posters been hoping for?

[Newton_14]

We beat an overmatched opponent; however, there were several positives:

1. Bench production
2. Intensity
3. > 40 percent on 3PT FGs

Grayson Allen going 2-9 from deep really skewed the team's 3PT FG performance. Take away his shots (made and missed), and Duke was 10-20 (50%). Grayson's touch will return all he has to do is keep shooting.

I thought Bagley and Carter fed off each other a bit tonight. When those two are complementing each other inside our frontcourt is a load.

I wanted to piggyback off the positive post by Mr Bob here. There were far more positives in this game than a couple of negatives. I'll address the two minor negatives I noticed. 1. Allowing Pitt to cut the lead from 32 to 17 over the first 8 minutes of the 2nd half. Our offense actually played a large role there. We were not good during that stretch at moving the ball and getting good, assisted shots, and the refs all of a sudden swallowed their whistles when Bagley and Carter were getting hammered on shot attempts near the rim. That mistake by the zebras is why things turned very chippy with the bigs. Not getting those calls hurt, and we lost our intensity on defense during that stretch. The other minor negative was Grayson not knocking down 3's at his normal rate. However he played much better overall than he did Saturday on both sides of the ball. He will return to form with his shot. I have no worries on that at all. I was at the State game Saturday and our seats were in the corner down from the Duke bench and right at the tunnel entrance to their locker room. I commented to my daughter that Grayson looked pale and had no energy. I am convinced he had or was recovering from one of the two nasty virus/bugs going around here. One being a bad stomach virus (my wife had that one over the weekend and a coworker had it Mon/Tues). Lots of other people we know have had either that one or the bad flu-like/sinus bug going around. I believe this Saturday will be a return to form from 3 and overall for Grayson.

On to the positives. Opponent aside (NC State is a bad team too, and while not as bad as Pitt, still bad), this was a very solid performance. The defense was much better, especially in the first half with the man to man. They were getting into the passing lanes, generating turnovers, blocking shots, etc and getting stops in general. I thought that helped fuel the fastbreak, and we executed well in turning those into points. Offensively it was the most balanced game we have had in awhile. In the State game and a couple others, we became very one dimensional I thought, running far too many plays for Bagley. The dude is freaking great but we have other really good scorers inside and out and to be who we want to be, we have to utilize that talent and hit the opponents with all our weapons. Tonight we did that.

K going deep into the bench right out of the gate and staying with it the entire game! JRob! What a game! Comes in early, looks very comfortable out there, taking those 3's in rhythm and knocking them down! He was also very active crashing the boards, blocking shots. Great game by the young man. Trevon knocking down 3's was another positive and he played with more control tonight.

There are many other positives but the last one I will mention is roaring back after Pitt had cut it to 17. It would have been a terrible mental blow to the guys had they limped to the finish line and only won by say 12 to 15 points. Instead, they gain back every single point of the original 32 point lead and actuallly added to it, winning by 35.

My advice, don't pooh pooh the win away because of Pitt. We needed to blow them out big and we did that and did it using guys that had barely played all year. When we get Bolden and Javin back and fully healthy, we will be a stronger team than the one we were tonight.

[PackMan97]

To be honest, this is what I was expecting to happen to NC State...maybe next year when State plays at Duke.

[BandAlum83]

Where did this Troovan guy come from? He was pretty good. I heard his name called a bunch of times by one of the announcers. He was noticing his play.

[duke96]

Hey ... how about Duval shooting 3-5 from 3! Hope this helps him get out of that rut.

[BandAlum83]

Hey ... how about Duval shooting 3-5 from 3! Hope this helps him get out of that rut.

I think Trevon only hit one of those. Troovan hit the other two. ;)

[mkirsh]

Where did this Troovan guy come from? He was pretty good. I heard his name called a bunch of times by one of the announcers. He was noticing his play.

I assume Ravich wrote in his notes a phonetic spelling to make sure he said it right, like "Truvan Duvale" or something like that, but it was badly botched. Troovan can shoot the three though

Also, Pitt prevented us from the the black uniform hex by wearing their own black unis. The game was over as soon as they took off their warm ups. Does it count as a road win if we are wearing our home unis?:p

On a more serious note, while it was great to see the D play better (and I don't want to be Debbie Downer) but Pitt didn't seem to put us into a ton of the ball screen situations we have struggled to guard. They ran a lot more spacing and back cuts and a bunch of ill advised one on one. We did a good job defending straight up dribble penetration which was a positive.

Bagley was only 7 of 16, so a poor shooting night for him, but he seems to rebound at least half of his misses for easy putbacks. He needs his own effective fg% calc

[flyingdutchdevil]

1) Opponent was weak. Doesn't mean there aren't takeaways. Loved the defensive intensity and awareness. Loved Coach K's usage of the bench really early (although I doubt we see that again this season). Loved sharing the ball (21 assists on 34 made field goals).

2) Grayson is in this weird space between scoring and distributing. And I love it. He is playing without the fire that we've seen over the last three years, but I think that is a good thing. I really believe that when Grayson goes into full scoring mode, he plays with too much passion and emotion. The only aspect that I don't like is Grayson passes a little too much. There were two instances. The first is when Grayson drove to the hoop, got by his man, and basically had an empty net ahead of him. He then skip-passed to Duval who sunk the 3. Second, on a fast break, Marvin passed to Grayson who was wide open for the 3. Instead of shooting, Grayson passed back to Marvin who traveled. Shoot Grayson, shoot!

3) Trevon Duval increased his 3pt shooting by 4 percentage points! Duval was 60% from 3, tied with Justin Robinson. He shot better than Grayson AND Gary. Yup! For the record, I don't believe Duval is a good 3pt shooter. But I do not think that he's a 17% shooter (now 21%). I think he's probably in the low 30s. I'll take that.

4) Trent is sneaky on offense, and I want to see more of it. He's good at getting in the mid-range and capable of hitting from there. I want Gary to shoot more. Will allow our bigs to be in great position for offensive rebounds.

5) We're back in the top 100 defensively for KenPom! Small wins. Let's keep em coming

[Saratoga2]

I wanted to piggyback off the positive post by Mr Bob here. There were far more positives in this game than a couple of negatives. I'll address the two minor negatives I noticed.

1. Allowing Pitt to cut the lead from 32 to 17 over the first 8 minutes of the 2nd half. Our offense actually played a large role there. We were not good during that stretch at moving the ball and getting good, assisted shots, and the refs all of a sudden swallowed their whistles when Bagley and Carter were getting hammered on shot attempts near the rim. That mistake by the zebras is why things turned very chippy with the bigs. Not getting those calls hurt, and we lost our intensity on defense during that stretch.

The other minor negative was Grayson not knocking down 3's at his normal rate. However he played much better overall than he did Saturday on both sides of the ball. He will return to form with his shot. I have no worries on that at all. I was at the State game Saturday and our seats were in the corner down from the Duke bench and right at the tunnel entrance to their locker room. I commented to my daughter that Grayson looked pale and had no energy. I am convinced he had or was recovering from one of the two nasty virus/bugs going around here. One being a bad stomach virus (my wife had that one over the weekend and a coworker had it Mon/Tues). Lots of other people we know have had either that one or the bad flu-like/sinus bug going around. I believe this Saturday will be a return to form from 3 and overall for Grayson.



To comment on your negatives:

We had the bad stretch with the starters in the game. Did Pitt get instructions to get more physical during the half or some other reason?

As far as Grayson, I thought almost every aspect of his game was better last night, with the exception of his 3 point shooting. I have also noticing he has been missing more at the foul line as well. Hope he can get that sweet shooting touch back.

[moonpie23]

3 positives from last night.

1 - intensity
2 - the bench (k for using them more)
3 - warriors lose at home to the clips.

[Spanarkel]

I know that Grayson has a wonderful stroke, but this picture(no. 2 in the sequence from last night if the link doesn't direct to the actual photo) from GoDuke.com shows his eyes to be following the flight of the ball rather than being fixed on the rim. Any comments? Let's go, Duke!

http://www.goduke.com/PhotoAlbum.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&PALBID=2196687

[CDu]

To echo the comments about how bad Pitt is, Pitt has not won a game against a power-5 school this year, and has also lost to Navy and Montana. This was a game that we absolutely should have won easily, even though it was a road game. Still, actually doing so is some progress. I will get to more specific thoughts later. Plenty of positives, a few not-so-positives.

[Native]

I assume Ravich wrote in his notes a phonetic spelling to make sure he said it right, like "Truvan Duvale" or something like that, but it was badly botched.

Bilas actually mentioned during the State broadcast that Duval himself pointed out that broadcasters had been mispronouncing his name. According to Duval, the way that TV commentators pronounced his name last night is the correct pronunciation.


Troovan can shoot the three though

New year, new name, new shot. I can dig it.

[OldPhiKap]

I spell my name “OldPhiKap,” but it is pronounced “high-zen-berg.”

Say my name.

[Matches]

Man it would be great if we could fuse Robinson and White into one guy. Whibinson would have White’s athleticism and hops, plus Robinson’s length and stroke.

I was happy to see us take care of business against an overmatched opponent. Not sure how or if the bench play will translate against a legit opponent - I suspect not well - but it was nice to see those guys get some positive minutes. Hopefully a confidence-builder for them.

[Neals384]

Bagley was only 7 of 16, so a poor shooting night for him, but he seems to rebound at least half of his misses for easy putbacks. He needs his own effective fg% calc

ESPN jinxed him by putting up a graphic that he shot over 50% every game.

[CDu]

Bilas actually mentioned during the State broadcast that Duval himself pointed out that broadcasters had been mispronouncing his name. According to Duval, the way that TV commentators pronounced his name last night is the correct pronunciation.



New year, new name, new shot. I can dig it.

He got the last name right, not the first. The first is more like Tri-VON, not TRAY-VON nor TRU-VAN.

[DukieInBrasil]

He got the last name right, not the first. The first is more like Tri-VON, not TRAY-VON nor TRU-VAN.

i like to think of it as Treh-VON, certainly not TRUE-van like that announcer was saying.

[CDu]

i like to think of it as Treh-VON, certainly not TRUE-van like that announcer was saying.

Yeah that is what I was going for but was too lazy to come up with the correct way to write it phonetically.

[84Duke]

I was there. The former Oakland Zoo wasn’t exactly a zoo. Maybe they need Jamie Dixon back. My section had more than a few Duke fans, so the “overrated” chant got a few chuckles. It seems crazy to say, but Duke won by 35 and didn’t look all that impressive. They just got a lead and cruised with it. I liked the game from Gary Trent. Took what came to him and put up double figures.

[devildeac]

I was there. The former Oakland Zoo wasn’t exactly a zoo. Maybe they need Jamie Dixon back. My section had more than a few Duke fans, so the “overrated” chant got a few chuckles. It seems crazy to say, but Duke won by 35 and didn’t look all that impressive. They just got a lead and cruised with it. I liked the game from Gary Trent. Took what came to him and put up double figures.

Agreed. Very solid game. Plus, we *might* be unanimous on how one is supposed to pronounce his name/s. :rolleyes:

[flyingdutchdevil]

Agreed. Very solid game. Plus, we *might* be unanimous on how one is supposed to pronounce his name/s. :rolleyes:

Tree-ent? Tray-end? Tru-ent?

[Channing]

I may have missed it but did D look better or were they just missing shots? Unfortunately I was unable to watch

[kAzE]

I may have missed it but did D look better or were they just missing shots? Unfortunately I was unable to watch

I was still a little uncomfortable with the number of wide open 3s they were able to get, but the effort seemed to be a little better than usual. We were pretty locked in at the start of the game, really getting after it in the passing lanes, but they also made a number of just really atrocious passes that went right in our hands. I want to give our guys more credit, but my gut tells me it was more Pitt just being terrible.

[uh_no]

I may have missed it but did D look better or were they just missing shots? Unfortunately I was unable to watch

D was good for first 15 minutes. not as good after (especially last few minutes of first half), but we were playing a lot of subs.

Unfortunately, I think some of it was that pitt is simply a step slower on offense, and that gave us time to think and make the correct rotations....which is promising to a degree since it means the skills are there, they just need to get faster....which ought to come with time....but we'll see.

Wake is a significantly better offense.

[devildeac]

Tree-ent? Tray-end? Tru-ent?

This is why I posted *might*.

;)

I think you need some fries on your next sammich.

:rolleyes:

[Matches]

D was good for first 15 minutes. not as good after (especially last few minutes of first half), but we were playing a lot of subs.

Unfortunately, I think some of it was that pitt is simply a step slower on offense, and that gave us time to think and make the correct rotations...which is promising to a degree since it means the skills are there, they just need to get faster...which ought to come with time...but we'll see.

Wake is a significantly better offense.

Co-sign. I thought the effort was better than in the State game, by a good margin. We coasted some late 1st half/ midway through 2nd but it’s kind of human nature when the score is a million to three or whatever it was.

Pitt was really bad offensively though. Really bad. I thought last night was a step in the right direction but we’ll see how big a step when we face a competent offense.

[kAzE]

I think the way Trevon himself pronounces his first name is "truh-VON", not "tray-VON" (which is confusing, since his nickname is Tricky Tre), so I imagine something like that was on the announcer's pronunciation guide, and he mistook it for "true-VON"

[moonpie23]

the new radio guy was saying his last name as "doo VAL" as in "val" kilmer

[azzefkram]

Duke did what it needed to do on the road in conference play and did it playing short-handed. Yes, Pitt isn't a very good team but Duke has let bad teams put up good numbers on them this season. I loved the effort and intensity on the defensive end. There seemed to be fewer wide open shots than previous games.

I thought the refs were horrible. Marvin was getting mugged every time he touched the ball. Have we ever seen Marvin get chippy before last night?

Not much to talk about offensively. The backcourt played really well. The two things I noticed that are of slight concern is that bad shot Gary showed up in a minor way and Grayson seems hesitant when shooting the 3. It was fun to see Justin go off.

[grad_devil]

I think the way Trevon himself pronounces his first name is "truh-VON", not "tray-VON" (which is confusing, since his nickname is Tricky Tre), so I imagine something like that was on the announcer's pronunciation guide, and he mistook it for "true-VON"

From the Duke media guide:

7975

I'm more interested in the last name - Is it Duval (as in Robert Duval), or is it Du-val, as in 'Val Kilmer'

Edit: What moonpie said.

[uh_no]

Duke did what it needed to do on the road in conference play and did it playing short-handed. Yes, Pitt isn't a very good team but Duke has let bad teams put up good numbers on them this season. I loved the effort and intensity on the defensive end. There seemed to be fewer wide open shots than previous games.

I thought the refs were horrible. Marvin was getting mugged every time he touched the ball. Have we ever seen Marvin get chippy before last night?

Not much to talk about offensively. The backcourt played really well. The two things I noticed that are of slight concern is that bad shot Gary showed up in a minor way and Grayson seems hesitant when shooting the 3. It was fun to see Justin go off.

speaking of chippiness, what was the tech for during the timeout? Was at tylers, and no audio.

[tbyers11]

speaking of chippiness, what was the tech for during the timeout? Was at tylers, and no audio.

TV guys said it was a bench technical on Coach Capel. However, they gave no further explanation than that.

I'd guess it was Capel strongly pointing out that "hey our bigs our getting mugged out there and you aren't blowing the whistle". But that's my guess

[flyingdutchdevil]

speaking of chippiness, what was the tech for during the timeout? Was at tylers, and no audio.

Capel did something. Not sure what.

[kAzE]

From the Duke media guide:

7975

I'm more interested in the last name - Is it Duval (as in Robert Duval), or is it Du-val, as in 'Val Kilmer'

Edit: What moonpie said.

VAL Kilmer, Teddy VALentine, Jonas VALanciunas, Trevon duVAL

Also, WTF was the announcer looking at? I'm out of ideas at this point.

[FerryFor50]

refs all of a sudden swallowed their whistles when Bagley and Carter were getting hammered on shot attempts near the rim. That mistake by the zebras is why things turned very chippy with the bigs. Not getting those calls hurt, and we lost our intensity on defense during that stretch.

I was mostly annoyed by this because the Pitt bigs seemed to PURPOSELY be trying to goad Bagley into picking up a 2nd technical foul. They were holding his arms on rebounds, initiating contact off the ball, and a variety of other bush league stuff that should have been reeled in. The refs allowed Pitt to play overly physical with Duke's star players when the game was well out of reach. I was glad to see K pull his best players with about 5 min left.

[Wander]

D was good for first 15 minutes. not as good after (especially last few minutes of first half), but we were playing a lot of subs.


Not sure our defensive tactics in those first 15 minutes would have worked against a decent team. Basically I think the positive thing to take out of the Pitt game is our post depth - K will never play those guys heavy minutes voluntarily, but it's nice to know our backups seem capable if foul trouble/injuries ever force his hand again.

[uh_no]

Not sure our defensive tactics in those first 15 minutes would have worked against a decent team. Basically I think the positive thing to take out of the Pitt game is our post depth - K will never play those guys heavy minutes voluntarily, but it's nice to know our backups seem capable if foul trouble/injuries ever force his hand again.

on the flip side, no reason carter and tricky tre should have picked up 4 fouls in that game.

[BandAlum83]

I was there. The former Oakland Zoo wasn’t exactly a zoo. Maybe they need Jamie Dixon back. My section had more than a few Duke fans, so the “overrated” chant got a few chuckles. It seems crazy to say, but Duke won by 35 and didn’t look all that impressive. They just got a lead and cruised with it. I liked the game from Gary Trent. Took what came to him and put up double figures.

I also heard some sort of Bagley chant on the TV, but couldn't quite make out what is was. There may have been more than one. Can you share what was being chanted?

[freshmanjs]

I also heard some sort of Bagley chant on the TV, but couldn't quite make out what is was. There may have been more than one. Can you share what was being chanted?

Bagley S*cks -- very creative!

[UrinalCake]

I may have missed it but did D look better or were they just missing shots? Unfortunately I was unable to watch

The D looked a little better. First and foremost, the players looked committed on the defensive end and were putting forth more effort. It felt similar to the Evansville game that followed the BC loss, which we won 104-40. Seemed clear to me that the coaches had been emphasizing the importance of defense, which K verbalized in the post-game press conference, and the bench players brought great energy which the starters feed off of.

Practically speaking, I thought we played the passing lanes well, creating turnovers and disrupting their ball movement. We did seem a bit handsy at times and picked up a couple fouls because of it, but it was a worthwhile tradeoff. Pitt didn't put us in a lot of pick and rolls, and they didn't dribble penetrate well. When they did make their run in the second half it was from getting our defense to switch/rotate and then finding the open man for a three, which is a common weakness. All in all, I'd say our defense improved but still has a long way to go.

[arnie]

Bagley S*cks -- very creative!

Good to see some opposing fan love directed away from Grayson.

[BandAlum83]

Bagley S*cks -- very creative!

And factually inaccurate.

[DukieInKansas]

Good to see some opposing fan love directed away from Grayson.

And nice to see him go right over to Bagley to talk when the chant started. Senior leadership from someone who has been there.

[kAzE]

And factually inaccurate.

I never heard chants supporting their own team. Not even "De-fense" or whatever their version of "let's go Duke" is. "Bagley s*cks" and "overrated" were the only thing I heard from the crowd at all, both of which were demonstrably false in that game. If you're winning against us, you get to chant "overrated," not when you're down by 40 . . .

I suppose there's no point in complaining further about the crowd, though. Their team is pretty bad.

[dukelifer]

Bagley S*cks -- very creative!

I think Bagley is overrated. I heard some Duke fan put him above Patrick Davidson. Come on the kid is good- but Davidson is a legend and man of steel.

[MrPoon]

I heard the chant on the TV and loved it. It’s like chanting, “We don’t know basketball! We don’t know basketball”. Bagley is better, with my limited knowlege of Pitt basketball, better than ANYONE who has played there (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2103093-pitt-panthers-basketball-5-best-players-in-team-history).

But the chant befit their team, which was not good. It was nice to go deep into the bench and reward kids who work hard everyday to showcase their abilities. Funny enough, I thought it was a sloppy odd game offensively and we still just destroyed them. Left a lot at the line, GA still is in his funk, and Duval still struggles to pick his spots in the flow. I agree with an earlier poster (sorry can’t find it now) that GA is trying to be Nolan to this team who probably doesn’t need him to score 20+ to win. But I also think that has held him back lately. He still needs to be GA, a bat out of hell who embarrasses other teams and makes opposing fans boo and female fans swoon. Okay, maybe a little over the top but we need our D to improve, GA to get back to 70% of who we know he can be, and Duval to keep improving. The rest will take care of itself.

Lastly, I don’t take much on the D side from this game. Looked good but we’ve seen spurts before against inferior teams. Show me more this weekend and then make it happen in Miami. It’s there, they just need to do it!

[House P]

I think Bagley is overrated. I heard some Duke fan put him above Patrick Davidson. Come on the kid is good- but Davidson is a legend and man of steel.

Please keep in mind that Bagley is a Freshman. While Patrick Davidson had a solid Freshman year, he didn't really become a Duke legend until his Sophomore year when he joined Duke's ultra-exclusive "4-4-4 Club" (4 points, 4 rebounds, and 4 fouls in a single season).

If Marvin wants to achieve his lifelong dream of being compared to Patrick Davidson, he is going to have to play another season at Duke. :cool:



As for the Pitt game, I enjoyed getting the chance to watch Justin and Jack play significant minutes in the first half of an ACC game. Sure, Pitt was overmatched, but Justin and Jack played a combined 16 first half minutes and both entered the game before the 2nd TV timeout when Pitt still had a slight chance of making it a competitive game (KenPom's win probability graph estimates that Pitt still had a about a 2% chance of winning the game when Jack entered with 13:29 left in the the first half and Duke leading by 13).

Contrast this to the Evansville game, which was an ever bigger blowout against an even more overmatched opponent. Against Evansville, Justin only played 3 minutes in the 1st half and Jack didn't get in until Duke had a 55 point lead with 11:31 left in the 2nd half.

Both guys played well enough vs Pitt that I wouldn't be completely shocked to see at least one of them play a couple 1st half minutes against Wake.

[CDu]

So I have seen in a few comments that we still left too many open 3s last night. And while this is true, I'm going to post why I'm not concerned. Most of these open 3s were the result of a mistake by a guy who will in all likelihood not be playing meaningful minutes in March. See below for all the 3s until absolute garbage time.

[Note: this is not to say that the defense was fault-free last night and that our woes are passed. Just that - on this night - our rotation guys weren't responsible for too many lapses leading to open 3s]

The list of 3s:

Vrank went out too far on a high ball screen, got beat by the dribbler, causing Robinson to help. Open corner 3 Note: this was with multiple bench guys.

White overhelps down into a crowded lane from the perimeter, open wing 3 (missed).

Allen stops dribble penetration, doesn’t get out to a stepback 3 (missed).

Off a failed defensive rebound on a Pitt FT, our guards didn’t find a guy in the opposite corner for a 3 (missed).

Semi-open off a high screen, Bagley switched but didn’t contest too hard (missed).

Semi-open on a kickout from a driver to the wing (missed).

On an underneath inbounds play, O’Connell fails to get out to his man (missed) Note: this was with 4 bench guys and Duval on the floor.

On a high ball screen, Carter doesn’t drop far enough, letting a drive happen. Allen sees this and overplays from the weakside baseline, leaving his man open in the corner. Duval sees this and cheats down into the middle to poach a pass to the corner. The ball goes to the now-open man on the wing for a 3 (missed).

High ball screen, Bagley plays drop coverage. Pull-up 3 (missed). Note: this is the limitation of drop coverage. You protect against the drive, but it will allow pull-up 3s.

Semi-stepback 3 against Robinson sagging off Wilson-Frame (missed).

Transition 3. Bagley is tied up with Chukwuka on one end, long rebound, Bagley’s man gets downcourt quickly and is picked up by Robinson. Bagley doesn’t recognize the switch and is charging down the lane to his man, leaving Chukwuka wide open for a 3.

Dribbler goes down through the lane, then runs around a screen down low. Bagley expects Robinson to switch and chase the man out to the perimeter, but Robinson stays home on the screener. O’Connell closes out on the dribbler in the corner, leaving his man open for an open wing 3.

Pull-up 3. Defender is one step below the line, shooter crosses over 2 or 3 times and takes a shot one step beyond the line (missed).
In a 2-3 zone, Trent (one of the “3”) overplays a lateral pass and misses up top. Dribbler then swings the ball to the open man on the other side (missed). This is one of the risks of overplaying in the passing lanes.

Again in 2-3, Robinson overplays WAY too far out on the perimeter. He should give way to Duval (who is in position, with the ball still 10 fee from the 3pt line) and drop back as he leaves his corner WIDE open (missed).

Again in 2-3, Both Robinson and Goldwire collapse from the same side, leaving nobody defending the far side of the court (missed).

Again in 2-3, Robinson overplays WAY too far out on the perimeter. He should give way to Duval (who is in position, with the ball still 10 fee from the 3pt line) and drop back as he leaves his corner WIDE open (missed).

Transition dunk, missed, bounced right to a guy at the 3pt line (missed). Note: we’re in full-on garbage time now.

[CDu]

Having posted a long list of Pitt's 3pt attempts, I'll talk about our team. I really liked what we did with high ball screens. Basically, whenever Carter was in a high ball screen situation, he was told to stay below the free throw line (or "drop" coverage). This did two things: it let him not get beat off the dribble as easily, and it allowed our other help defenders to stay home on 3pt shooters (especially the corner 3). It appeared that we had the same philosophy for Vrank, but he didn't "drop" far enough. That resulted in an open corner 3 with Robinson helping. There are weaknesses of drop coverage, as Troublemaker has laid out really nicely in his GIF thread (NOTE: if you haven't checked it out, please do. You can even enjoy a friendly debate between him and me there ;). Aside from that banter, it's a really informative thread.) is that it will allow pull-up jumpers and 3s, as the helper on the screen is now well away from the ball. But that's a tradeoff I'm gladly willing to take to prevent layups and wide open corner 3s.

Aside from Carter and Vrank, the play was generally to switch on high ball screens. This is because basically everyone else was considered mobile enough to stay with a perimeter guy. And for the most part, we didn't have troubles with it. Though, again, this was a REALLY bad Pitt team. So the results are going to be misleading.

That being said, I think it is a strategy that can work. We don't need to be UVa defensively to win. We just need to be average defensively. And I think this defense can be average.

We also played a lot of zone later in the second half. It's hard to take much away from that, though, as it was played mostly by guys who aren't going to play when we are healthy.

We did get beaten a couple of times for backdoor cuts, though again those were usually guys who weren't going to be in in key games. Allen did get caught napping once.

The other thing that seemed quite evident was that we were overplaying lateral perimeter passes. We did get a few steals this way. But we also misjudged a few times and gave up easy scores as a result. If we are going to cheat those lanes, we have to recover when we miss. Also, we had a few such attempts in the 2-3 zone by Robinson, which didn't go well. But, again, Robinson isn't likely to be playing once Bolden and DeLaurier return, so I'm less concerned about that.

All in all, I was hoping to see a consistent strategy, and one that showed signs that it could be effective. In that sense, last night was a complete success. Saturday will provide a bit tougher test, so it will be nice to see what happens with our new defense against a functional offense.

[Mike Corey]

Arising from my lurking to say this is a really wonderful and happy thread of good analysis, and I thank you all for it.

This continues to be the most impressive array of individually talented offensive basketball players I can remember at Duke.

The rest is coming along, game by game.

[Kedsy]

So I have seen in a few comments that we still left too many open 3s last night. And while this is true, I'm going to post why I'm not concerned. Most of these open 3s were the result of a mistake by a guy who will in all likelihood not be playing meaningful minutes in March. See below for all the 3s until absolute garbage time.

Thanks for taking the time to perform this analysis. Assuming the mistakes made by the bench guys wouldn't also have been made by the starters, after reading your analysis I agree it wasn't as bad as it looked. I also agree that I'd rather give up pull up three attempts than catch-and-shoot three attempts.

It's a work-in-progress. Hopefully we'll see more advancement against Wake and Miami, and then even more going forward.

[CDu]

Thanks for taking the time to perform this analysis. Assuming the mistakes made by the bench guys wouldn't also have been made by the starters, after reading your analysis I agree it wasn't as bad as it looked. I also agree that I'd rather give up pull up three attempts than catch-and-shoot three attempts.

It's a work-in-progress. Hopefully we'll see more advancement against Wake and Miami, and then even more going forward.

Yeah, it's definitely not a "we're in the clear" situation. It's certainly possible that the starters would have made similar mistakes. And we still haven't seen what Bolden and DeLaurier will do once they return. But at least there were fewer (not none, but fewer) mistakes caused by our starters than there were in previous games. And the fact that the starters didn't account for most of these mistakes makes me believe that they at least got some of the message.

I think the change in strategy for Carter is a big step in the right direction. He has consistently looked REALLY uncomfortable when defending more than 15 feet from the basket. So allowing him to drop off screens should be a big plus. He'll still give up some buckets/fouls to better drivers, but it shouldn't be as blatantly rough as it was in the FSU and State games. And hopefully that helps others not feeling the need to help off as much.

[Devilwin]

All in all, good effort by the team, but I think we should have won by more. Pitt is a terrible basketball team this year. And we need to work on those free throws!

[uh_no]

All in all, good effort by the team, but I think we should have won by more. Pitt is a terrible basketball team this year. And we need to work on those free throws!

While one would always want that, but really? in a game where justin robinson is our 6th man? and jack white gets 13 minutes? and we only won by 35?

There are certainly take aways from this game, but i don't think the smallness of the final margin is one of them.

[Billy Dat]

I was there. The former Oakland Zoo wasn’t exactly a zoo. Maybe they need Jamie Dixon back.

I think if those shirts had said, "Pitt is lit AF!" instead of just "Pitt is lit", the atmosphere would have been more Zoo-like.


I think the change in strategy for Carter is a big step in the right direction. He has consistently looked REALLY uncomfortable when defending more than 15 feet from the basket. So allowing him to drop off screens should be a big plus. He'll still give up some buckets/fouls to better drivers, but it shouldn't be as blatantly rough as it was in the FSU and State games. And hopefully that helps others not feeling the need to help off as much.

He tends to "chest" the guy he's defending, which is an easy foul call, and he consistently brings his arms down when he should just tall up. Wendell being smarter about his fouling is a quality measure I am keeping an eye on. In general, I feel like we have the tendency to commit our fouls in clusters that not only cause the usual issues (player has to be careful, opponent is in the bonus early) but also sap momentum.

[devildeac]

While one would always want that, but really? in a game where justin robinson is our 6th man? and jack white gets 13 minutes? and we only won by 35?

There are certainly take aways from this game, but i don't think the smallness of the final margin is one of them.

82-50 is a reference point I use commonly.

;)

[freshmanjs]

While one would always want that, but really? in a game where justin robinson is our 6th man? and jack white gets 13 minutes? and we only won by 35?

There are certainly take aways from this game, but i don't think the smallness of the final margin is one of them.

Someone showed a graphic that it was the biggest ACC road win we've had since 1999. If that's correct, it's hard to say we should have done even more than that.

[CDu]

Someone showed a graphic that it was the biggest ACC road win we've had since 1999. If that's correct, it's hard to say we should have done even more than that.

In fairness, this might be the worst team in the ACC in that span. Certainly comparable with the worst teams of the last 20 years in the ACC. BC had a couple of years comparable.

But, yeah, in a game in which Robinson, White, and Vrankovic got that much PT, I sure wouldn't complain about the margin of victory.

[Olympic Fan]

In fairness, this might be the worst team in the ACC in that span. Certainly comparable with the worst teams of the last 20 years in the ACC. BC had a couple of years comparable.

But, yeah, in a game in which Robinson, White, and Vrankovic got that much PT, I sure wouldn't complain about the margin of victory.

I would suggest that the four worst ACC teams of this century (since 1999) were:

1. 2016 Boston College -- 0-18 ACC/7-25 overall/225 Pomeroy (Duke won by 17 AT Boston College that year)

2. 2011 Wake Forest -- 1-15 ACC/8-24 overall/259 Pomeroy (Duke won by 24 AT Wake)

3. 2012 Boston College -- 4-12 ACC/9-22 overall/261 Pomeroy (Duke won by 25 at BC)

4. 2014 Virginia Tech -- 2-16 ACC/9-22 overall/174 Pomeroy (Duke didn't play in Blacksburg, but won by 18 in Cameron)

The 2018 Pitt Panthers are certainly in the discussion. At the moment -- 0-4 ACC/8-9 overall/195 Pomeroy -- they are probably fourth, but they could improve if Ryan Luther returns.

I think that in that context, a 35-point Duke win at Pitt should be appreciated

[House P]

Justin and Jack played a combined 16 first half minutes and both entered the game before the 2nd TV timeout when Pitt still had a slight chance of making it a competitive game (... Jack entered with 13:29 left in the the first half and Duke leading by 13).

Contrast this to the Evansville game, which was an ever bigger blowout against an even more overmatched opponent. Against Evansville, Justin only played 3 minutes in the 1st half and Jack didn't get in until Duke had a 55 point lead with 11:31 left in the 2nd half.


FWIW, I just spent (wasted?) some time looking at play-by-play data from all Duke's games so far this year.

- In the first half of the Pitt game, Jack played 9:08 and Justin played 7:05.

- Prior to the Pitt game, Jack played a total of 4:20 in the first half this season (2:03 of that in Duke's opener vs Elon) and Justin played a total of 2:05 in the first half.

- In the St. Francis game, Duke's 2nd largest blowout, Jack and Justin didn't get in until there was 7:55 remaining in the 2nd half and Duke had a 44 point lead.

[freshmanjs]

FWIW, I just spent (wasted?) some time looking at play-by-play data from all Duke's games so far this year.

- In the first half of the Pitt game, Jack played 9:08 and Justin played 7:05.

- Prior to the Pitt game, Jack played a total of 4:20 in the first half this season (2:03 of that in Duke's opener vs Elon) and Justin played a total of 2:05 in the first half.

- In the St. Francis game, Duke's 2nd largest blowout, Jack and Justin didn't get in until there was 7:55 remaining in the 2nd half and Duke had a 44 point lead.

I think the reason for this is very simple. Other guys weren't available. If Coach K could have used last night's game to develop his top 8, then those guys would not have played much (more like Evansville).

[devildeac]

I would suggest that the four worst ACC teams of this century (since 1999) were:

1. 2016 Boston College -- 0-18 ACC/7-25 overall/225 Pomeroy (Duke won by 17 AT Boston College that year)

2. 2011 Wake Forest -- 1-15 ACC/8-24 overall/259 Pomeroy (Duke won by 24 AT Wake)

3. 2012 Boston College -- 4-12 ACC/9-22 overall/261 Pomeroy (Duke won by 25 at BC)

4. 2014 Virginia Tech -- 2-16 ACC/9-22 overall/174 Pomeroy (Duke didn't play in Blacksburg, but won by 18 in Cameron)

The 2018 Pitt Panthers are certainly in the discussion. At the moment -- 0-4 ACC/8-9 overall/195 Pomeroy -- they are probably fourth, but they could improve if Ryan Luther returns.

I think that in that context, a 35-point Duke win at Pitt should be appreciated

Where would you rank the 8-20 "u"nc team that D'oh "coached"? Top 10? Or should I ask bottom 10? :rolleyes:

[CDu]

Where would you rank the 8-20 "u"nc team that D'oh "coached"? Top 10? Or should I ask bottom 10? :rolleyes:

Easily one of the best teams ever.

[Olympic Fan]

Where would you rank the 8-20 "u"nc team that D'oh "coached"? Top 10? Or should I ask bottom 10? :rolleyes:

it's a candidate for the bottom 10 ... 4-12 ACC/8-22 overall/ but just 137 in Pomeroy .. Duke did win by 29 in Chapel Hill that season.

[uh_no]

I would suggest that the four worst ACC teams of this century (since 1999) were:

1. 2016 Boston College -- 0-18 ACC/7-25 overall/225 Pomeroy (Duke won by 17 AT Boston College that year)

2. 2011 Wake Forest -- 1-15 ACC/8-24 overall/259 Pomeroy (Duke won by 24 AT Wake)

3. 2012 Boston College -- 4-12 ACC/9-22 overall/261 Pomeroy (Duke won by 25 at BC)

4. 2014 Virginia Tech -- 2-16 ACC/9-22 overall/174 Pomeroy (Duke didn't play in Blacksburg, but won by 18 in Cameron)

The 2018 Pitt Panthers are certainly in the discussion. At the moment -- 0-4 ACC/8-9 overall/195 Pomeroy -- they are probably fourth, but they could improve if Ryan Luther returns.

I think that in that context, a 35-point Duke win at Pitt should be appreciated

Per KP, the worst final rankings are:
2012 BC (261)
2011 WF (259)
2016 BC (225)
2012 WF (211)
2018 pitt (192)
2015 VT (175)
2014 VT (174)
2012 GT (174)
2017 BC (173)
2013 VT (169)

Amazing that these are all post-expansion, and before 2011, the ACC had nobody outside the top 150 in the previous 10 years at least. not surprisingly, the expansion teams dominate the list, with 7 of the 10 spots.

[mkirsh]

Having posted a long list of Pitt's 3pt attempts, I'll talk about our team. I really liked what we did with high ball screens. Basically, whenever Carter was in a high ball screen situation, he was told to stay below the free throw line (or "drop" coverage). This did two things: it let him not get beat off the dribble as easily, and it allowed our other help defenders to stay home on 3pt shooters (especially the corner 3). It appeared that we had the same philosophy for Vrank, but he didn't "drop" far enough. That resulted in an open corner 3 with Robinson helping. There are weaknesses of drop coverage, as Troublemaker has laid out really nicely in his GIF thread (NOTE: if you haven't checked it out, please do. You can even enjoy a friendly debate between him and me there ;). Aside from that banter, it's a really informative thread.) is that it will allow pull-up jumpers and 3s, as the helper on the screen is now well away from the ball. But that's a tradeoff I'm gladly willing to take to prevent layups and wide open corner 3s.

Aside from Carter and Vrank, the play was generally to switch on high ball screens. This is because basically everyone else was considered mobile enough to stay with a perimeter guy. And for the most part, we didn't have troubles with it. Though, again, this was a REALLY bad Pitt team. So the results are going to be misleading.

That being said, I think it is a strategy that can work. We don't need to be UVa defensively to win. We just need to be average defensively. And I think this defense can be average.

We also played a lot of zone later in the second half. It's hard to take much away from that, though, as it was played mostly by guys who aren't going to play when we are healthy.

We did get beaten a couple of times for backdoor cuts, though again those were usually guys who weren't going to be in in key games. Allen did get caught napping once.

The other thing that seemed quite evident was that we were overplaying lateral perimeter passes. We did get a few steals this way. But we also misjudged a few times and gave up easy scores as a result. If we are going to cheat those lanes, we have to recover when we miss. Also, we had a few such attempts in the 2-3 zone by Robinson, which didn't go well. But, again, Robinson isn't likely to be playing once Bolden and DeLaurier return, so I'm less concerned about that.

All in all, I was hoping to see a consistent strategy, and one that showed signs that it could be effective. In that sense, last night was a complete success. Saturday will provide a bit tougher test, so it will be nice to see what happens with our new defense against a functional offense.

CDu - thanks for the post. I really enjoy your posts and I’m not trying to be contentious, but I’m curious about why you specifically call out corner threes. My understanding is that in the NBA the corner three is more efficient since the court isn’t wide enough for the NBA three point line to stay equidistant from the basket, and the corner 3 is a closer shot. On an NCAA court the 3 point line is uniform 20’9” all the way around, so don’t think corner threes are as favorable for an offense (and I can think of reasons they are worse - tougher visual shooting background, less likely to get help from the backboard, easier to step out of bounds since the sideline is very close, and easier fast break opportunities for the opponent as the Shooter is as far as possible from his own basket). Am I missing something here?

[phaedrus]

CDu - thanks for the post. I really enjoy your posts and I’m not trying to be contentious, but I’m curious about why you specifically call out corner threes. My understanding is that in the NBA the corner three is more efficient since the court isn’t wide enough for the NBA three point line to stay equidistant from the basket, and the corner 3 is a closer shot. On an NCAA court the 3 point line is uniform 20’9” all the way around, so don’t think corner threes are as favorable for an offense (and I can think of reasons they are worse - tougher visual shooting background, less likely to get help from the backboard, easier to step out of bounds since the sideline is very close, and easier fast break opportunities for the opponent as the Shooter is as far as possible from his own basket). Am I missing something here?

The key part of “wide open corner threes” is the “wide open,” not “corner.” The pull-up threes will be at least somewhat contested, and they will be off the dribble, a tougher proposition than a catch and shoot from the corner.

[Kedsy]

CDu - thanks for the post. I really enjoy your posts and I’m not trying to be contentious, but I’m curious about why you specifically call out corner threes. My understanding is that in the NBA the corner three is more efficient since the court isn’t wide enough for the NBA three point line to stay equidistant from the basket, and the corner 3 is a closer shot. On an NCAA court the 3 point line is uniform 20’9” all the way around, so don’t think corner threes are as favorable for an offense (and I can think of reasons they are worse - tougher visual shooting background, less likely to get help from the backboard, easier to step out of bounds since the sideline is very close, and easier fast break opportunities for the opponent as the Shooter is as far as possible from his own basket). Am I missing something here?

I don't have numbers handy, but I believe even in the NCAA, players hit corner threes at a higher percentage than other spots around the arc. It's possible that's because corner threes are almost always catch-and-shoot opportunities (which in general are made at a much higher rate than pull-up or step-back threes).

[CDu]

CDu - thanks for the post. I really enjoy your posts and I’m not trying to be contentious, but I’m curious about why you specifically call out corner threes. My understanding is that in the NBA the corner three is more efficient since the court isn’t wide enough for the NBA three point line to stay equidistant from the basket, and the corner 3 is a closer shot. On an NCAA court the 3 point line is uniform 20’9” all the way around, so don’t think corner threes are as favorable for an offense (and I can think of reasons they are worse - tougher visual shooting background, less likely to get help from the backboard, easier to step out of bounds since the sideline is very close, and easier fast break opportunities for the opponent as the Shooter is as far as possible from his own basket). Am I missing something here?

No offense taken! And great question. The “especially corner 3s” was referring to the fact that the corner 3 is the most common 3pt opportunity created by a drive, because with the collapsing defense and sightlines that is the easiest guy to spot and hit. “Especially” probably wasn’t the right word there. “Primarily” or “mainly” would have been better. Sorry for the confusion. It definitely reads that way in hindsight.

[Duke76]

I know that Grayson has a wonderful stroke, but this picture(no. 2 in the sequence from last night if the link doesn't direct to the actual photo) from GoDuke.com shows his eyes to be following the flight of the ball rather than being fixed on the rim. Any comments? Let's go, Duke!

http://www.goduke.com/PhotoAlbum.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&PALBID=2196687

that's interesting and it does look like....while he looks to be in balance in the shots and going straight up with his legs under him nicely...i thought I saw a few times he was off balance, maybe jack knifing his legs a little. i don't know it strange sometimes how little nuanced changes in your form knock your shot off...His misses didn't't seem to be consistent last night, some long, some short, kinda like not all his limbs working in concert.

[lotusland]

I agree with that. Vrank, while huge and experienced is just slow and doesn't get off the floor.

We did have very good games from bench players with Robinson, White and O'Connell doing very well. Robinson doesn't appear to be the greatest athlete, but he is good sized at 6'9" and is a smooth shooter. He has some experience so can help on the defensive side. White is very active and is a strong young player and can hold his own with the guys that Pitt could put on the floor. O'Connell is quite a skilled played and an excellent athlete. He plays better defense than he is given credit for and is a very capable shooter. He defers on the shot but when he does try to score he is effective. I didn't mention Goldwire as he cramped up before I had much chance to appraise his play.

It's nice to have three effective subs get a chance to play on the road for significant minutes against an ACC opponent, however weak. Isn't it what quite a few posters been hoping for?

Yes it was. I was going to post just that. It’s awesome to see 4-year guys get an opportunity to play more than spot minutes during garbage time. All the guys looked like they belong on the court. Now the coaches can break down what they did well and what needs improvement. I think it’s a big deal to for those guys. Also how awesome is it for JRob to come so far? I’ve seen some posts about his lack of athleticism but I don’t really see that. He looks like he’s fast walking when he changes ends but seems pretty quick and agile in the half court. Also wasn’t he a decent HS wide receiver? Maybe he’s still growing into his taller frame but I wouldn’t call him alarmingly unathathletic.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Per KP, the worst final rankings are:
2012 BC (261)
2011 WF (259)
2016 BC (225)
2012 WF (211)
2018 pitt (192)
2015 VT (175)
2014 VT (174)
2012 GT (174)
2017 BC (173)
2013 VT (169)

Amazing that these are all post-expansion, and before 2011, the ACC had nobody outside the top 150 in the previous 10 years at least. not surprisingly, the expansion teams dominate the list, with 7 of the 10 spots.

How did the worst ACC team in the modern era win 4 games in the ACC?

[English]

that's interesting and it does look like...while he looks to be in balance in the shots and going straight up with his legs under him nicely...i thought I saw a few times he was off balance, maybe jack knifing his legs a little. i don't know it strange sometimes how little nuanced changes in your form knock your shot off...His misses didn't't seem to be consistent last night, some long, some short, kinda like not all his limbs working in concert.

Purely anecdotally, but something that has been a really stark change this season for Grayson, in my view, is his almost insistence on shot faking every time he catches the ball. Shot fakes are a great weapon for a player with Grayson's array of attacking moves (shooting, driving, dishing, etc.), but again, in my layman's view, it's basically annihilated any catch-and-shoot 3pt opportunities he gets. It must have been a point of emphasis for him over the offseason, because I cannot remember this being a constant part of his game in the past. As a designed armchair shooting instructor, I think he needs to continue working on when to shot fake and when to take an open shot.

[Olympic Fan]

How did the worst ACC team in the modern era win 4 games in the ACC?

That was a team with four freshman starters (Tyan Anderson, Dennis Clifford, Lonnie Jackson, Patrick Heckmann). It struggled mightily early and got better late, beating a few weak ACC teams.

That's why when I listed the four worst ACC teams of this century, I had that team fourth and an 0-18 BC team first. I love Kenpom, but I didn't think his rankings are gospel.

[uh_no]

That was a team with four freshman starters (Tyan Anderson, Dennis Clifford, Lonnie Jackson, Patrick Heckmann). It struggled mightily early and got better late, beating a few weak ACC teams.

That's why when I listed the four worst ACC teams of this century, I had that team fourth and an 0-18 BC team first. I love Kenpom, but I didn't think his rankings are gospel.

I don't either in this case. i was simply pointing out that for a given metric, those were the four worst.

[ipatent]

[/B] Also how awesome is it for JRob to come so far? I’ve seen some posts about his lack of athleticism but I don’t really see that. He looks like he’s fast walking when he changes ends but seems pretty quick and agile in the half court. Also wasn’t he a decent HS wide receiver? Maybe he’s still growing into his taller frame but I wouldn’t call him alarmingly unathathletic.

He seems plenty athletic to me, he's had some nice dunks and blocks.

[DukieInBrasil]

He seems plenty athletic to me, he's had some nice dunks and blocks.

totally agree, that chase down block that led to a Buckmire and-1 was pretty athletic. He may not be the best athlete on the team, but that by no means indicates that he lacks athleticism.

[Kedsy]

totally agree, that chase down block that led to a Buckmire and-1 was pretty athletic. He may not be the best athlete on the team, but that by no means indicates that he lacks athleticism.

Agreed. Frankly, if he grows another couple inches and gains some weight, he possibly could play meaningful minutes next season, as we'll be in need of bigs.

Not saying he will do those things, but there is some precedent in his family.

[kAzE]

Agreed. Frankly, if he grows another couple inches and gains some weight, he possibly could play meaningful minutes next season, as we'll be in need of bigs.

Not saying he will do those things, but there is some precedent in his family.

I don't mean this as a slight to J-Rob, but if I didn't know what J-Rob looked like, and you put him next to DeAndre Ayton, I probably would have guessed Ayton was David Robinson's kid. He looks almost like a carbon copy of the Admiral from his Navy days. Even some facial similarities. I'm guessing J-Rob looks like his mom.

[TruBlu]

He seems plenty athletic to me, he's had some nice dunks and blocks.

He had 3 blocks in 18 minutes against Pitt. That’s a high ratio, albeit in a small sample size.

[Kedsy]

He had 3 blocks in 18 minutes against Pitt. That’s a high ratio, albeit in a small sample size.

For the season, Justin has the highest blocks per 40 minutes on the team (6.3). Next best are Marques (3.1) and Wendell (3.0). Justin's block percentage (15.6%) also far outstrips Marques (7.6%) and Wendell (7.4%). For comparison, Shelden Williams's senior year block percentage was 7.5% (his blocks per 40 was 4.6). His best block percentage of 8.0% (bp40 also 4.6) came in his sophomore year.

Alas that Justin has only put up such numbers in 51, mostly garbage-time minutes.

However, whoever's been saying that Wendell and Marques aren't "rim protectors" might want to look at their percentages in comparison to the Landlord. Though granted, there's more to rim protection than blocked shots.