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pfrduke
01-08-2018, 11:35 AM
Just a week and a half into conference play and 9 teams already have at least two losses, with only 4 teams above .500 - Virginia, Clemson, Notre Dame (all 3-0), and Miami (2-1). It's fair to say the conference has yet to sort itself out very much. Lots of good contests in the coming week that may give further guidance as to how the league will stratify.

Monday is a football day

Tuesday
[3]Virginia (3-0) (-12) hosts [50]Syracuse (1-2) (8:00, ACCNE)
[12]North Carolina (1-2) (-12) hosts [73]Boston College (2-2) (8:00, ACCNE)

Wednesday
[180]Pittsburgh (0-3) (+15) hosts [6]Duke (1-2) (7:00, ESPN2)
[75]Wake Forest (1-2) (-1) hosts [49]Virginia Tech (1-2) (7:00, ACCNE)
[114]Georgia Tech (1-1) (+7) hosts [14]Notre Dame (3-0) (7:00, ACCNE)
[24]Florida State (1-2) (-6) hosts [40]Louisville (1-1) (9:00, ACCNE)

Thursday
[78]NC State (1-2) (+4) hosts [15]Clemson (3-0) (9:00, ESPN)

Friday is dark

Saturday
[6]Duke (1-2) (-15) hosts [75]Wake Forest (1-2) (12:00, ACCNE)
[73]Boston College (-18) hosts [293]Dartmouth (1:00, ACCNE)
[24]Florida State (1-2) (-7) hosts [50]Syracuse (1-2) (2:00, ACCNE)
[180]Pittsburgh (0-3) (-1) hosts [114]Georgia Tech (1-1) (2:00, ACCNE)
[15]Clemson (3-0) (-4) hosts [25]Miami (2-1) (3:00, ESPNU)
[40]Louisville (1-1) (-5) hosts [49]Virginia Tech (1-2) (4:00, ESPN2)
[14]Notre Dame (3-0) (-3) hosts [12]North Carolina (1-2) (6:00, ESPN)

Sunday
[3]Virginia (3-0) (-15) hosts [78]NC State (1-2) (6:00, ESPNU)

ACC Non-Conference Record: 150-38
ACC v. Power 6: 29-21

PackMan97
01-08-2018, 12:27 PM
[78]NC State (1-2) (+4) hosts [15]Clemson (3-0) (9:00, ESPN)


NC State has played TWO games since we played Clemson on 12/30.

Two of our first four ACC games are against Clemson. I understand the difficulty in scheduling, but is this really the best that could be done?

This happens again later in the season when NC State plays the Cheats on Jan 27th and again Feb 10th (again with only two games in between).

/smh

pfrduke
01-08-2018, 01:14 PM
NC State has played TWO games since we played Clemson on 12/30.

Two of our first four ACC games are against Clemson. I understand the difficulty in scheduling, but is this really the best that could be done?

This happens again later in the season when NC State plays the Cheats on Jan 27th and again Feb 10th (again with only two games in between).

/smh

I hear you - Duke's next 5 games are Pitt-Wake-Miami-Pitt-Wake

PackMan97
01-08-2018, 01:32 PM
I hear you - Duke's next 5 games are Pitt-Wake-Miami-Pitt-Wake

:eek:

That is simply awful.

CDu
01-09-2018, 09:37 PM
I hear you - Duke's next 5 games are Pitt-Wake-Miami-Pitt-Wake

By goodness I hope we are above-.500 in conference after that stretch of games.

elvis14
01-09-2018, 10:13 PM
Tuesday
[3]Virginia (3-0) (-12) hosts [50]Syracuse (1-2) (8:00, ACCNE)
[12]Cheaters (1-2) (-12) hosts [73]Boston College (2-2) (8:00, ACCNE)


Just put our embarrassing loss to BC in perspective, the cheating bastages from cheater hill just beat BC by 30 and the NC State loss was worse than the BC loss. Clemson will probably roll State by 30 Thursday night.

#frustrated # uke efense

Stray Gator
01-09-2018, 10:32 PM
Just put our embarrassing loss to BC in perspective, the cheating bastages from cheater hill just beat BC by 30 and the NC State loss was worse than the BC loss. Clemson will probably roll State by 30 Thursday night.

#frustrated # uke efense

This kind of "perspective" based on a supposed transitive property can be deceptive. For example, BC lost by only 1 point at UVA. But UNC lost at UVA by 12 points. Now BC loses at UNC by 30 points. How can those results be reconciled by any "perspective" other than one that acknowledges the persistent unpredictability of college basketball?

W&LHoo
01-09-2018, 10:46 PM
This kind of "perspective" based on a supposed transitive property can be deceptive. For example, BC lost by only 1 point at UVA. But UNC lost at UVA by 12 points. Now BC loses at UNC by 30 points. How can those results be reconciled by any "perspective" other than one that acknowledges the persistent unpredictability of college basketball?

There is no transitive property in sports. Matchups and schemes are important. And they're kids, so emotion/motivation/composure does as well.

Devil549
01-09-2018, 10:52 PM
All scheduling set up for TV rating in FEB.....so how can you have a “true” regular season champion? What you have are teams playing for seeding in ACC tourney.....TV controls college schedules at the DI level.

PackMan97
01-09-2018, 11:45 PM
Just put our embarrassing loss to BC in perspective, the cheating bastages from cheater hill just beat BC by 30 and the NC State loss was worse than the BC loss. Clemson will probably roll State by 30 Thursday night.

#frustrated # uke efense

Duke lost on the road
Cheaters won at home.
State lost on the road.

I don't know if State will beat Clemson, but I do know it will be a much more competitive game in the ESARBCPNC Arena.

Olympic Fan
01-10-2018, 12:26 AM
FWIW,

After Tuesday night's games, ACC home teams are 20-4 in league play.

chris13
01-10-2018, 09:50 AM
This kind of "perspective" based on a supposed transitive property can be deceptive. For example, BC lost by only 1 point at UVA. But UNC lost at UVA by 12 points. Now BC loses at UNC by 30 points. How can those results be reconciled by any "perspective" other than one that acknowledges the persistent unpredictability of college basketball?

Another example, in which none of the games were close.

North Carolina 86 Ohio State 72 on neutral court (New Orleans)
Michigan State 63 North Carolina 45 at Michigan State
Ohio State 80 Michigan State 64 at Ohio State

Home court matters a lot this year so far as Oly points out above (20-4 home record in the ACC today)

elvis14
01-10-2018, 09:54 AM
This kind of "perspective" based on a supposed transitive property can be deceptive. For example, BC lost by only 1 point at UVA. But UNC lost at UVA by 12 points. Now BC loses at UNC by 30 points. How can those results be reconciled by any "perspective" other than one that acknowledges the persistent unpredictability of college basketball?

I agree about the fact that the transitive property doesn't apply but when a team loses games by 30 then turns around and beats your team that's not good....especially when a team like ours that has so much talent and championship aspirations. I never thought we'd go undefeated. A few losses to quality teams along they way was expected.

Matches
01-10-2018, 09:57 AM
I agree about the fact that the transitive property doesn't apply but when a team loses games by 30 then turns around and beats your team that's not good...especially when a team like ours that has so much talent and championship aspirations. I never thought we'd go undefeated. A few losses to quality teams along they way was expected.

Even our best teams have laid a few eggs over the course of a season though.

I'm as pissed off as anyone about losing to State - but their previous loss to ND is neither here nor there. The team we faced was completely different from the one that played ND.

PackMan97
01-10-2018, 12:10 PM
NC State just landed a big transfer for next season, freshman Missouri PG, Blake Harris, is transferring to NC State immediately and will be eligible to play in Jan 2019 and have 3 1/2 years of eligibility left.

Harris was the #55 recruit in the nation last season.

CDu
01-10-2018, 12:19 PM
NC State just landed a big transfer for next season, freshman Missouri PG, Blake Harris, is transferring to NC State immediately and will be eligible to play in Jan 2019 and have 3 1/2 years of eligibility left.

Harris was the #55 recruit in the nation last season.

Good get for State for sure. But I'm not sure that the bolded part is correct. I think midseason transfers effectively lose a year of eligibility, as you can't split one year of play over two seasons. Each season you play counts as a season of eligibility. So I think that if Harris plays next Spring, he'll play as a sophomore. If he chooses to sit out the entire year, he'll be able to play as a redshirt sophomore for the entire 2019-20 season.

This is why mid-year transfers are such a bad idea. You have to REALLY want out to be willing to give up that year of eligibility (or half a year at best).

JasonEvans
01-10-2018, 12:26 PM
After Tuesday night's games, ACC home teams are 20-4 in league play.

I forget who it was, but someone around here used to sometimes post ACC standings based on road wins minus home losses as a way of seeing who is really leading the league.

Current standings:
https://image.ibb.co/c0JAe6/Capture.jpg

flyingdutchdevil
01-10-2018, 12:29 PM
Good get for State for sure. But I'm not sure that the bolded part is correct. I think midseason transfers effectively lose a year of eligibility, as you can't split one year of play over two seasons. Each season you play counts as a season of eligibility. So I think that if Harris plays next Spring, he'll play as a sophomore. If he chooses to sit out the entire year, he'll be able to play as a redshirt sophomore for the entire 2019-20 season.

This is why mid-year transfers are such a bad idea. You have to REALLY want out to be willing to give up that year of eligibility (or half a year at best).

Interesting. What does that say about Jordan Tucker and his experience at Duke?

UrinalCake
01-10-2018, 12:40 PM
I think midseason transfers effectively lose a year of eligibility, as you can't split one year of play over two seasons.

I never understood why players do mid-year transfers. I guess they're not playing anyways so they're effectively losing a semester sitting on the bench and they figure they might as well "lose" two semesters. And they can still practice with their new team, so they're still getting four year's worth of practice time. But for someone like Tucker who has some catching up to do it, seems like he could have benefited from using the spring semester to continue practicing with the Duke team, taking entire year to sit out and practice with his new team, then still have three years of eligibility remaining.

JasonEvans
01-10-2018, 12:43 PM
NC State just landed a big transfer for next season, freshman Missouri PG, Blake Harris, is transferring to NC State immediately and will be eligible to play in Jan 2019 and have 3 1/2 years of eligibility left.

Harris was the #55 recruit in the nation last season.

A couple notes on this...

1) Not to pick on recruiting rankings, which can be silly (see Jordan Tucker being higher than Alex O'Connell) but Harris was generally not regarded as high as the #55 that 247 put on him. ESPN had him #99, Rivals had him #136, VerbalCommits had him #86. He did not make RSCI's list of the top 100 recruits in the land. Still, he's a nice player.

2) Harris is a fickle kid. He committed to Washington but then flipped to Missouri when Lorenzo Romar was fired at UDubb. I guess he was following Michael Porter, who did the same thing (though Harris' father was not hired to be an assistant coach at Mizzu). Now, after less than half a season in Missouri, he's moving to NC State.

3) It is worth noting that unlike other transfers we hear about this time of year, Harris was getting playing time for the Tigers. He was playing an average of 14 minutes per game and was firmly in Cuonzo Martin's rotation. He actually leads Mizzu in assists with 3.1 per game. He has struggled with his shot though, yet to hit a 3 pointer on the season (7 attempts). I am sorta surprised he picked NC State as it sure looks like Braxton Beverly is going to get a lot of time at PG over the next few years, but maybe Harris just wanted to be close to his home town of Chapel Hill. I'm betting "homesick" was a major factor in this decision.

-Jason "nice pick up for Keats... not a kid who figures to alter the shape of the program, but a solid building block who will contribute" Evans

wobatus
01-10-2018, 01:29 PM
A couple notes on this...

1) Not to pick on recruiting rankings, which can be silly (see Jordan Tucker being higher than Alex O'Connell) but Harris was generally not regarded as high as the #55 that 247 put on him. ESPN had him #99, Rivals had him #136, VerbalCommits had him #86. He did not make RSCI's list of the top 100 recruits in the land. Still, he's a nice player.

2) Harris is a fickle kid. He committed to Washington but then flipped to Missouri when Lorenzo Romar was fired at UDubb. I guess he was following Michael Porter, who did the same thing (though Harris' father was not hired to be an assistant coach at Mizzu). Now, after less than half a season in Missouri, he's moving to NC State.

3) It is worth noting that unlike other transfers we hear about this time of year, Harris was getting playing time for the Tigers. He was playing an average of 14 minutes per game and was firmly in Cuonzo Martin's rotation. He actually leads Mizzu in assists with 3.1 per game. He has struggled with his shot though, yet to hit a 3 pointer on the season (7 attempts). I am sorta surprised he picked NC State as it sure looks like Braxton Beverly is going to get a lot of time at PG over the next few years, but maybe Harris just wanted to be close to his home town of Chapel Hill. I'm betting "homesick" was a major factor in this decision.

-Jason "nice pick up for Keats... not a kid who figures to alter the shape of the program, but a solid building block who will contribute" Evans

They'll have 4 guys who can play point: Beverly, Markell Johnson (assuming his legal issues don't amount to anything), Batts and Harris.

Also, 247 ranked Harris 101 on its own list. His 247 composite rank was 120. Not sure if they changed their list at some point.

https://247sports.com/Season/2017-Basketball/RecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool

Olympic Fan
01-10-2018, 02:12 PM
The next two nights will really test the home-court dominance that ACC teams have shown so far this season:

Duke us a heavy favorite (over 90 percent according the Pomeroy) at Pitt.

Notre Dame at Georgia Tech is interesting -- a week ago, I would have said a slam dunk for the Irish, but the injuries to Colson and Farrell (definitely out for this game) and the recent resurgence of the Jackets (Lammers and Okogie are finally healthy) make this one a tossup.

Virginia Tech at Wake Forest -- both are starting to play better. I think this one is a tossup.

Louisville at FSU -- gotta favor the Seminoles at home, but Louisville is a veteran, talented team and wouldn't shock me to see them win in Tallahassee.

And Thursday nigh, we get Clemson at NC State. Can State build on the Duke win and protect their home court? Or will they revert to selfishness and ineptitude as they did after beating Arizona?

W&LHoo
01-10-2018, 04:55 PM
The next two nights will really test the home-court dominance that ACC teams have shown so far this season:

Duke us a heavy favorite (over 90 percent according the Pomeroy) at Pitt.

Notre Dame at Georgia Tech is interesting -- a week ago, I would have said a slam dunk for the Irish, but the injuries to Colson and Farrell (definitely out for this game) and the recent resurgence of the Jackets (Lammers and Okogie are finally healthy) make this one a tossup.

Virginia Tech at Wake Forest -- both are starting to play better. I think this one is a tossup.

Louisville at FSU -- gotta favor the Seminoles at home, but Louisville is a veteran, talented team and wouldn't shock me to see them win in Tallahassee.

And Thursday nigh, we get Clemson at NC State. Can State build on the Duke win and protect their home court? Or will they revert to selfishness and ineptitude as they did after beating Arizona?

Clemson at NC State is the most fascinating/inscrutable game I think we've seen this season. Clemson beat the Pack - badly - in Littlejohn, and seem to be favored in Raleigh, but that's not a bet I'd take. Honestly, I think this isn't just a tossup, but could literally be a blowout in either direction without surprising me a bit.

PackMan97
01-11-2018, 02:17 PM
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/nc-state/state-now/article194189354.html

Felony charges against Markell Johnson have been dropped. No word on what this does with regards to his status on the team. He's still suspended until Yow and Keatts say otherwise.

Olympic Fan
01-11-2018, 05:03 PM
Worth noting that after home teams going 20-4 to start the season, three of four road teams won Wednesday night (Duke at Pitt, VPI at Wake, Louisville at FSU). Only Georgia Tech (over Notre Dame) held serve at home.

That means the league is now 21-7 at home going into the Clemson at NC State game.

That's still an extraordinary high winning percentage for home teams -- matching the alltime record of 75.0 percent that has stood since 1960.

Expect to see a further correction to the mean (which is around 63 percent for the home team).

ncexnyc
01-11-2018, 06:28 PM
The loss by FSU is a total shocker. I turned that game off at the half, as the Cards looked totally beaten.

UrinalCake
01-11-2018, 09:36 PM
It's early but NC State is looking really good so far against Clemson. I'm rooting for them because a win over the #19 team would make our loss look less bad, plus I have no problem supporting their program as a local rival. Next year they should make a big leap with Keatts getting his incoming transfers eligible.

left_hook_lacey
01-11-2018, 10:09 PM
It's early but NC State is looking really good so far against Clemson. I'm rooting for them because a win over the #19 team would make our loss look less bad, plus I have no problem supporting their program as a local rival. Next year they should make a big leap with Keatts getting his incoming transfers eligible.

Plus they get their point guard Johnson back next week. If they pull it out against Clemson, that's two top 5 wins and a top 25 win already this season. Could be building quite a resume by seasons end

JasonEvans
01-11-2018, 10:15 PM
Plus they get their point guard Johnson back next week. If they pull it out against Clemson, that's two top 5 wins and a top 25 win already this season. Could be building quite a resume by seasons end

But how much do wins like that outweigh the fact that they have some pretty bad losses, including one to UNC Greensboro. If they can get to 9 ACC wins, they should reach the dance, but that could be a tall order.

Ultrarunner
01-11-2018, 10:52 PM
But how much do wins like that outweigh the fact that they have some pretty bad losses, including one to UNC Greensboro. If they can get to 9 ACC wins, they should reach the dance, but that could be a tall order.

Big mo may be on their side and Yurtseven seems to have figured out he can play this game.

PackMan97
01-11-2018, 10:54 PM
But how much do wins like that outweigh the fact that they have some pretty bad losses, including one to UNC Greensboro. If they can get to 9 ACC wins, they should reach the dance, but that could be a tall order.

UNC-G is at 106 in the RPI right now. It's certainly not a good loss, but it's not a horrible loss.

Dr. Rosenrosen
01-11-2018, 11:04 PM
State working hard to screw it up. LOL.

devildeac
01-11-2018, 11:22 PM
State working hard to screw it up. LOL.

Good golly! I didn't watch it but followed on espn scoreboard. NCSU fouled Clemson on a 3 point try with :01 to go and the Clemson played made the first 2 FT and missed the 3rd and NCSU grabbed the rebound to win 78-77, almost hacking up a 12 point lead with about 1:30 to play. :eek:

ipatent
01-11-2018, 11:23 PM
Very close to an epic collapse, but State pulled it out.

Dr. Rosenrosen
01-11-2018, 11:27 PM
Good golly! I didn't watch it but followed on espn scoreboard. NCSU fouled Clemson on a 3 point try with :01 to go and the Clemson played made the first 2 FT and missed the 3rd and NCSU grabbed the rebound to win 78-77, almost hacking up a 12 point lead with about 1:30 to play. :eek:
It was 1:30 of bone headed plays and total lack of defensive effort and then some more bone headed plays.

State very nearly pulled a clempsun.

PackMan97
01-11-2018, 11:41 PM
Very close to an epic collapse, but State pulled it out.

My wife told me there's is now way State could blow it...I told her that I've been a fan for over 25 years and we can be very creative when it comes to losing.

Glad to see us pull it out. I would feel better about our games against UVA if they were ranked #2 instead of #3 :)

UrinalCake
01-11-2018, 11:43 PM
State was up 5 with about 20 seconds left. Clemson scores a layup and then State turns it over inbounding the ball by throwing a bounce pass along the baseline that bounces out of bounds (they had done the exact same thing on the previous possession, but the refs didn’t call it). Then they foul the Clemson player attempting a three.

Nice play by Keatts to call a timeout after Clemson made the first two free throws, to effectively ice him and preserve the win.

Ultrarunner
01-12-2018, 12:03 AM
My wife told me there's is now way State could blow it...I told her that I've been a fan for over 25 years and we can be very creative when it comes to losing.

Glad to see us pull it out. I would feel better about our games against UVA if they were ranked #2 instead of #3 :)

Couldn’t spork you but the phrase “never give up” passed through my mind. Not the original intent of the quote but my sense of humor might be a little . . . off.

Wahoo2000
01-12-2018, 12:10 AM
State was up 5 with about 20 seconds left. Clemson scores a layup and then State turns it over inbounding the ball by throwing a bounce pass along the baseline that bounces out of bounds (they had done the exact same thing on the previous possession, but the refs didn’t call it). Then they foul the Clemson player attempting a three.

Nice play by Keatts to call a timeout after Clemson made the first two free throws, to effectively ice him and preserve the win.

Another whiff in what I call "special situations" coaching. NC State was up 3 inbounding and yes, the inbounder made a tragic mistake (for the second time in less than 2 minutes, though the first wasn't called) of bouncing the pass off of the baseline rather than inbounds, resulting in a turnover. There was a LENGTHY review - plenty of time for Keats and staff to make a plan. State was up 3 points with 1.3 seconds left. ALL they had to do was space their 5 longest players around the arc defensively and deny any pass coming ANYWHERE near the 3pt line. Even if they surrendered a lob for a dunk, .3 seconds automatically come off. They had a timeout left should that happen. Then the last part of the play is to just have Yurtseven or someone else deep (like NC State offensive end/FT line area) on the ensuing inbounds play. Throw a lob deep to him. All he has to do is tip the ball. Even if it's intercepted, even if intercepted CLEANLY by a Clemson player, that player would have to immediately heave a 3/4 court shot.

Instead, they choose to play regular defense, and after almost missing a switch commit a foul on a 3. In that situation, SERIOUSLY..... why do you even guard the basket.... or ANYWHERE inside the arc if you're up 3 with 1.3 seconds left???? The coaches make 7+figures and they don't have packages for special situations?

left_hook_lacey
01-12-2018, 07:19 AM
But how much do wins like that outweigh the fact that they have some pretty bad losses, including one to UNC Greensboro. If they can get to 9 ACC wins, they should reach the dance, but that could be a tall order.

True. I guess I'm just thinking in terms of the good wins they've had vs expectations.

Me personally, I think beating two #2 teams goes farther than a couple of bad losses. Especially for an unranked team trying to outplay expectations and make the tournament.

Will the selection committee consider they were without their true PG during those games? And was Beverly not yet cleared yet either? I can't remember.

I don't know, I like what I saw from State last night (except for last minute decisions), if Johnson and the others(aren't they getting a transfer soon that can play right away?) can mesh and get some depth, I think this could be a giant killer if they make the dance.

PackMan97
01-12-2018, 08:19 AM
True. I guess I'm just thinking in terms of the good wins they've had vs expectations.

Me personally, I think beating two #2 teams goes farther than a couple of bad losses. Especially for an unranked team trying to outplay expectations and make the tournament.

Will the selection committee consider they were without their true PG during those games? And was Beverly not yet cleared yet either? I can't remember.

I don't know, I like what I saw from State last night (except for last minute decisions), if Johnson and the others(aren't they getting a transfer soon that can play right away?) can mesh and get some depth, I think this could be a giant killer if they make the dance.

Beverly didn't miss any games of importance. Johnson was suspended the day of our loss to UNCG.

No. We have CJ Bryce from UNCW eligible next year and Devon Daniels from Utah also next year, plus Blake Harris from MizU eligible middle of next season.

What I like most about the win is that we beat a Duke/UNC and followed it up with a win over a top 25 team. Normally a win gives us a bad loss or two. Excited about the break from tradition here :)

ncexnyc
01-12-2018, 10:45 AM
Following a huge upset win with another big win against a ranked opponent is a big deal in my book. Props to State for winning the game despite the last minute meltdown and as we all know had they lost that game there would be several on hear talking about State having the Duke Hangover.

CDu
01-12-2018, 10:49 AM
Good for State. And with Johnson returning soon, the needle is definitely pointing upwards for them. I'm hopeful for them and Keatts. Just so long as they don't someday usurp us. :)

Will be interesting to see them match up with UNC this year.

PackMan97
01-12-2018, 10:54 AM
Good for State. And with Johnson returning soon, the needle is definitely pointing upwards for them. I'm hopeful for them and Keatts. Just so long as they don't someday usurp us. :)

Admit it, you'd much rather there be a healthy and competitive Duke/State rivalry and we both steamroll the Heels on a regular basis. One can dream.

rasputin
01-12-2018, 10:56 AM
Good for State. And with Johnson returning soon, the needle is definitely pointing upwards for them. I'm hopeful for them and Keatts. Just so long as they don't someday usurp us. :)

Will be interesting to see them match up with UNC this year.

Ha. State will continue to roll over and play dead against the Pus Buckets.

Stray Gator
01-12-2018, 11:16 AM
Ha. State will continue to roll over and play dead against the Pus Buckets.

In the past, even when they defeated a higher-ranked Duke team, I would have expected State to fold when UNC took the court. But the fact that the Pack managed to survive their last-minute swoon against a surging Clemson, and should be getting stronger with the return of Johnson, has me harboring some hope that they will at least hold serve and sink the Fraudship at home in PNC.

BD80
01-12-2018, 11:17 AM
My wife told me there's is no way State could blow it...I told her that I've been a fan for over 25 years and we can be very creative when it comes to losing. ...

Have you ever had a point guard throw a cross-court pass along your own baseline, only to hit your own basket, causing the ball to fall directly down to an arch-rival (at least back then) to allow him make the easy, uncontested lay-up for the win?


I hate it when that happens ...

OldPhiKap
01-12-2018, 11:18 AM
Admit it, you'd much rather there be a healthy and competitive Duke/State rivalry and we both steamroll the Heels on a regular basis. One can dream.

Sign me up for this.

cato
01-12-2018, 11:18 AM
In the past, even when they defeated a higher-ranked Duke team, I would have expected State to fold when UNC took the court. But the fact that the Pack managed to survive their last-minute swoon against a surging Clemson, and should be getting stronger with the return of Johnson, has me harboring some hope that they will at least hold serve and sink the Fraudship at home in PNC.

Is that you, Charlie Brown? It’s me, Lucy. Wanna kick a football?

CDu
01-12-2018, 11:26 AM
Admit it, you'd much rather there be a healthy and competitive Duke/State rivalry and we both steamroll the Heels on a regular basis. One can dream.

I would prefer the relationship that State has with UNC to become the relationship that State has with Duke, and for the relationship that State has with Duke to be the relationship State has with UNC. ;) In terms of basketball results, that is. Not in terms of collegiality.

Olympic Fan
01-12-2018, 01:43 PM
Have you ever had a point guard throw a cross-court pass along your own baseline, only to hit your own basket, causing the ball to fall directly down to an arch-rival (at least back then) to allow him make the easy, uncontested lay-up for the win?


I hate it when that happens ...

It was worse than that ... Duke was up three with the ball with seconds to play -- in the era before the 3-point shot.

There was no way Duke could lose.

But Steve Gray -- as you described -- threw a crosscourt pass that hit the Maryland basket and dropped into the hands of a Maryland player -- I want to say James Tillman. As Tillman went up for the gift basket, GRAY FOULED HIM. Tillman made the free throw, the game went into OT and Maryland won 65-64 in five extra minutes.

That was in 1977 ... Duke started 11-3, then Tate Armstrong broke his wrist in a win at Virginia. Gray replaced Tate and the season went to hell -- Duke lost 10 of its last 13 games. That will happen when you have a point guard with more turnovers (88) than assists (79)

Bill Foster later said that the Saturday afternoon loss to Maryland was the low point of his coaching career ... but all was redeemed that night. Gene Banks, the nation's most celebrated prep recruit, called Foster that night and told him that he was coming to Duke. The next year, Duke won the ACC and played in the national title game.

wobatus
01-12-2018, 01:49 PM
In the past, even when they defeated a higher-ranked Duke team, I would have expected State to fold when UNC took the court. But the fact that the Pack managed to survive their last-minute swoon against a surging Clemson, and should be getting stronger with the return of Johnson, has me harboring some hope that they will at least hold serve and sink the Fraudship at home in PNC.

NC State hadn't followed up a regular win over Duke with another win (against anyone, ranked or not) since 2003, when they beat # 3 Duke and then UNC in Raleigh. They did follow-up the win in the 2007 ACC Tournament with a win against UVa. The last time they beat 2 ranked teams in a row was 2012 NCAA tournament, San Diego State and Georgetown.

MChambers
01-12-2018, 07:51 PM
It was worse than that ... Duke was up three with the ball with seconds to play -- in the era before the 3-point shot.

There was no way Duke could lose.

But Steve Gray -- as you described -- threw a crosscourt pass that hit the Maryland basket and dropped into the hands of a Maryland player -- I want to say James Tillman. As Tillman went up for the gift basket, GRAY FOULED HIM. Tillman made the free throw, the game went into OT and Maryland won 65-64 in five extra minutes.

That was in 1977 ... Duke started 11-3, then Tate Armstrong broke his wrist in a win at Virginia. Gray replaced Tate and the season went to hell -- Duke lost 10 of its last 13 games. That will happen when you have a point guard with more turnovers (88) than assists (79)

Bill Foster later said that the Saturday afternoon loss to Maryland was the low point of his coaching career ... but all was redeemed that night. Gene Banks, the nation's most celebrated prep recruit, called Foster that night and told him that he was coming to Duke. The next year, Duke won the ACC and played in the national title game.
I was there. It was the worst of times.

kshepinthehouse
01-13-2018, 08:19 PM
UNC with a BS win as the ball somehow rattled out for Notre dame.

weezie
01-13-2018, 08:22 PM
No way Berry was fouled. Big old floperooski.

Hauerwas
01-13-2018, 08:29 PM
Notre Dame just got screwed. It’s amaxing that for 40 years UncCheat continues to get bailed out by the refs. That was a travesty. One of the worst calls I’ve ever seen. But I’m not surprised.

kshepinthehouse
01-13-2018, 08:39 PM
Notre Dame just got screwed. It’s amaxing that for 40 years UncCheat continues to get bailed out by the refs. That was a travesty. One of the worst calls I’ve ever seen. But I’m not surprised.

Player from Notre Dame got hit in the face on the putback attempt.

Hauerwas
01-13-2018, 08:48 PM
The frustrating thing is the Cheats schedule gets a lot easier for a while. They go to Clemson and Va Tech but other than that they will cruise into February.

ncexnyc
01-13-2018, 08:52 PM
I've got no problem with Berry getting that foul call, but if you give him that call then Maye should have been called for his foul on Gibbs.

devildeac
01-13-2018, 08:59 PM
I've got no problem with Berry getting that foul call, but if you give him that call then Maye should have been called for his foul on Gibbs.

"It's called a foul by any normal person but not the ncaa."

-bubba

Wheat/"/"/"
01-13-2018, 09:09 PM
UNC stole one on the road for sure. But you know what they say, good teams find a way to win when they don't play well.

I thought the ball bounced ND's way most of the night, like often happens at home, until that last follow shot.
Deflections seemed to find ND players like a magnet, and the same with some long rebounds, which ND gathered by being quicker to the ball. And several ND shots rattled around the rim and found a way to fall. ND was getting a lot of breaks to keep them in it even tho they weren't shooting it well, and much of that was due to their aggressiveness. They played hard.

UNC played hard as well, but had a horrendous outside shooting night. Cam Johnson and Kenny Williams, who are both good shooters, couldn't buy an outside shot. An average UNC shooting night and this game wouldn't have been close.

I credit a better job of limiting turnovers and experienced leadership from Pinson, Maye and Berry, along with some strong minutes from freshman Manley off the bench for staying in a position to get a road win after shooting it so bad.

Clutch defense and free throw shooting, along with a little luck, got this one done.

ncexnyc
01-13-2018, 09:34 PM
UNC stole one on the road for sure. But you know what they say, good teams find a way to win when they don't play well.

Yes, I've heard this quote, but who said the Cheats were a good team? So far when they've played a quality opponent they've gotten spanked (MSU and UVA).

Wheat/"/"/"
01-13-2018, 09:58 PM
Yes, I've heard this quote, but who said the Cheats were a good team? So far when they've played a quality opponent they've gotten spanked (MSU and UVA).

UNC has been very inconsistent, dealing with injuries and freshmen bigs, but they've played a top five schedule in the country so far and are 13-4. That's a good team.

Hauerwas
01-13-2018, 10:21 PM
Roy has actually gotten the most out of this squad but right now they have two consistent players and unproven bigs. Until someone else steps up I don’t consider them a top tier team. Williams could make a leap but if Berry has a bad night they have zero chance. And ND is a shell of the team they were with Bonzi and Ferrell out. Not really a great win on the road considering they are missing 35 points and 15 boards. I think Duke beats them by 15 or more especially without Colson.

PackMan97
01-13-2018, 10:31 PM
UNC stole one on the road for sure.

So, in addition to cheating, they are now thieving? Is there no end to their immoral acts and deprivation?

;)

Anyone complaining about UNCs status as most favored team hasn't been paying attention. This is what they do. The rules do not apply to them as they do everyone else.

9f 9o9f 9o

elvis14
01-14-2018, 08:38 AM
UNC didn't steal anything...they were gifted this game pure and simple. There were multiple bad calls at the end of this game ALL of them went one way. That BS illegal screen call was horrendous, for example. SMDH. I don't understand why the NCAA favors the dirtiest program in the land.

Bob Green
01-14-2018, 09:26 AM
I'm looking forward to the NC State at Virginia game tonight. I really enjoy watching Virginia play defense. The Hoos are favored by 15 points.

PackMan97
01-14-2018, 09:35 AM
I'm looking forward to the NC State at Virginia game tonight. I really enjoy watching Virginia play defense. The Hoos are favored by 15 points.

It would be more, if UVA were a faster paced team.

The only thing giving me hope is how UNCW did last year. Unfortunately, This year states team hasn't played in Keats offense for 3years.

kshepinthehouse
01-14-2018, 09:39 AM
UNC didn't steal anything...they were gifted this game pure and simple. There were multiple bad calls at the end of this game ALL of them went one way. That BS illegal screen call was horrendous, for example. SMDH. I don't understand why the NCAA favors the dirtiest program in the land.

I lost money on this too 😞

Wheat/"/"/"
01-14-2018, 09:57 AM
UNC didn't steal anything...they were gifted this game pure and simple. There were multiple bad calls at the end of this game ALL of them went one way. That BS illegal screen call was horrendous, for example. SMDH. I don't understand why the NCAA favors the dirtiest program in the land.

There were some missed calls both ways, like there are in every game.

Manley's effort to get the loose ball shot off at the rim, and Berry's hustle to get the miss and a shot at the rim before the shot clock when he was fouled won the game... along with some luck.

DukieInBrasil
01-14-2018, 10:10 AM
It would be more, if UVA were a faster paced team.

The only thing giving me hope is how UNCW did last year. Unfortunately, This year states team hasn't played in Keats offense for 3years.

Will State have Johnson back as their PG for this game? I read the charges are dropped but i don't know if that means that NCSU will allow him to play.

PackMan97
01-14-2018, 10:18 AM
Will State have Johnson back as their PG for this game? I read the charges are dropped but i don't know if that means that NCSU will allow him to play.

I don't know. During his suspension he did not participate in any team activities/practices. He is behind in a lot of what we've been doing in practice and in the film room.

He has been reinstated, so It's basically coach's decision.

OldPhiKap
01-14-2018, 02:00 PM
I'm looking forward to the NC State at Virginia game tonight. I really enjoy watching Virginia play defense. The Hoos are favored by 15 points.

Me too. It's a tall order for State on the road, but I am hoping for a close game. Mainly because I'd like to want to watch all 40 minutes as opposed to drifting my attention to the interwebs while the game is just on in the background . . . .

OldPhiKap
01-14-2018, 07:02 PM
Not sure where else to put this, and sorry if I missed it being posted before — odd story involving GT’s coach Josh Pastner:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22067332/georgia-tech-men-basketball-coach-josh-pastner-files-civil-suit-former-tech-booster-ron-bell-girlfriend-jennifer-pendley

Tripping William
01-14-2018, 07:21 PM
Me too. It's a tall order for State on the road, but I am hoping for a close game. Mainly because I'd like to want to watch all 40 minutes as opposed to drifting my attention to the interwebs while the game is just on in the background . . . .

How’s the surfing going? (State down 45-25 which, given the pace at which UVa plays, may as well be 90-50.)

OldPhiKap
01-14-2018, 07:26 PM
How’s the surfing going? (State down 45-25 which, given the pace at which UVa plays, may as well be 90-50.)

Watching YouTube documentaries on the battle of Monte Cassino.

PackMan97
01-14-2018, 07:29 PM
How’s the surfing going? (State down 45-25 which, given the pace at which UVa plays, may as well be 90-50.)

Don't look now, 47-34...that's like a 27-3 run against any normal team :)

I would say that State is very much a "die by the three" team this season. We don't live by the three, but in most of our losses we die by it. 1-13 from deep so far this game. A stunning 7.7%! Not to mention only 5 assists vs 13 turnovers is never a good stat to have.

PackMan97
01-14-2018, 08:05 PM
State lost 68-51....but hey, that's more than the defending national champions scored against them.

jhmoss1812
01-14-2018, 08:20 PM
State lost 68-51...but hey, that's more than the defending national champions scored against them.

Good game PackMan. You can tell Keatts is the right hire for NCSU. Your guys fought the entire 40 minutes and never gave up. Good luck the rest of the way.

Glad we were still ranked #3 when we played you :)

PackMan97
01-14-2018, 08:46 PM
Good game PackMan. You can tell Keatts is the right hire for NCSU. Your guys fought the entire 40 minutes and never gave up. Good luck the rest of the way.

Glad we were still ranked #3 when we played you :)

You have to fight with the army you've got as a new coach.

For the most part, State fans this year are just looking for a team that doesn't quit and plays hard. That we've beaten 3 top 20 teams is a bit frustrating because we can play very well at times, and then other times we don't. Just too inconsistent right now. Can't wait to see what happens with Bryce and Daniels joining the team next season.

UrinalCake
01-14-2018, 09:55 PM
He has been reinstated, so It's basically coach's decision.

What they said on the broadcast of the Clemson game was that he was no longer suspended from the team but still had to go through the process of the university honor court or whatever the equivalent is. It sounded like there were some more steps that had to be cleared before he could play again.

PackMan97
01-14-2018, 09:58 PM
What they said on the broadcast of the Clemson game was that he was no longer suspended from the team but still had to go through the process of the university honor court or whatever the equivalent is. It sounded like there were some more steps that had to be cleared before he could play again.

He played limited minutes against UVa tonight.

PackMan97
01-15-2018, 01:17 PM
Glad we were still ranked #3 when we played you :)

And now you are ranked #2....$*!#%!#!%!!!!!

Although to be fair, we were 3-0 vs teams ranked at the time we played them....now we are just 2-0 against teams ranked #2.

jhmoss1812
01-15-2018, 03:23 PM
And now you are ranked #2...$*!#%!#!%!!!!!

Although to be fair, we were 3-0 vs teams ranked at the time we played them...now we are just 2-0 against teams ranked #2.

It worked out better for you. Now you can still say you're 2-0 against teams ranked #2. Sounds much better than 2-1.

PackMan97
01-15-2018, 03:30 PM
It worked out better for you. Now you can still say you're 2-0 against teams ranked #2. Sounds much better than 2-1.

I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt, UVa being ranked #2 instead of #3, would have been a GAME CHANGER! No way we lose under that circumstance.

:rolleyes: