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pfrduke
01-02-2018, 12:14 AM
We're now fully into conference play - this week will be the last detailed conference-by-conference breakdown of our conference non-conference record (trust me, that makes sense). There are some high quality matchups this week - Florida State, in particular, has to run an early season gauntlet - as teams start to get an early chance to separate from the pack. Lots of close games marked the opening weekend, after which we now have 6 ACC teams ranked (Duke, UVA, UNC, Miami, FSU, and Clemson) and a total of 8 that have been ranked (add Louisville and Notre Dame).

Monday was a football day

Tuesday
[42]Louisville (0-0) (-14) hosts [170]Pittsburgh (0-1) (9:00, ESPNU)

Wednesday
[27]Florida State (0-1) (-1) hosts [12]North Carolina (1-0) (7:00, ESPN2)
[76]Boston College (1-1) (+3) hosts [21]Clemson (1-0) (7:00, ACCNE)
[69]Wake Forest (0-1) (-1) hosts [45]Syracuse (1-0) (7:00, ACCNE)
[40]Virginia Tech (0-1) (+3) hosts [5]Virginia (1-0) (9:00, ACCNE)
[137]Georgia Tech (0-1) (+8) hosts [18]Miami (1-0) (9:00, ACCNE)
[28]Notre Dame (1-0) (-10) hosts [83]NC State (0-1) (9:00, ACCNE)

Thursday and Friday are dark

Saturday
[21]Clemson (1-0) (-7) hosts [42]Louisville (0-0) (12:00, ACCNE)
[40]Virginia Tech (0-1) (-14) hosts [170]Pittsburgh (0-1) (12:00, ACCNE)
[5]Virginia (1-0) (-6) hosts [12]North Carolina (1-0) (1:00, ESPN)
[45]Syracuse (1-0) (-1) hosts [28]Notre Dame (1-0) (3:15, ESPN2)
[76]Boston College (1-1) (-3) hosts [69]Wake Forest (0-1) (4:00, ACCNE)
[137]Georgia Tech (-6) hosts [166]Yale (7:00, ACCNE)
[83]NC State (0-1) (+10) hosts [4]Duke (1-1) (8:00, ESPN)

Sunday
[18]Miami (1-0) (-5) hosts [27]Florida State (0-1) (6:00, ESPNU)

ACC Non-Conference Record: 149-38*
ACC v. Power 6: 29-21
America East: 4-0
American Athletic: 5-2
Atlantic 10: 13-2
Atlantic Sun: 3-0
Big East: 2-2
Big 12: 1-6
Big Sky: 1-1
Big South: 9-1
Big Ten: 14-6
Big West: 2-0
Colonial: 4-0
CUSA: 3-0
Horizon: 2-1
Ivy: 4-0
MAAC: 3-0
MAC: 5-1
MEAC: 12-0
MVC: 2-2
MWC: 1-0
NEC: 12-0
OVC: 2-0
Pac 12: 3-1
Patriot: 7-1
SEC: 9-6
Southern: 9-3
Southland: 3-0
Summit: 2-0
Sun Belt: 2-1
SWAC: 3-1
WAC: 5-1
WCC: 1-0
Non-D1: 1-0

*for comparison purposes, the Big 12 has 16 non-conference losses, the Big East has 23, the SEC has 40, the Pac-12 has 45, and the Big Ten has 45.

arnie
01-02-2018, 06:51 AM
So the game at State on Saturday is at 8 pm. Guess it was moved from original 2 start time?

OldPhiKap
01-02-2018, 07:16 AM
Good, a week to work on defense.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-02-2018, 07:45 AM
Let's root for a good bounce-back game for those spunky Noles

camion
01-02-2018, 07:49 AM
Let's root for a good bounce-back game for those spunky Noles

I'll take the under on them making two bank shot threes in that game.

OldPhiKap
01-02-2018, 08:13 AM
Let's root for a good bounce-back game for those spunky Noles


I'll take the under on them making two bank shot threes in that game.

FSU favored by one — not sure I would take that bet.

Bank shot prop bet, however, I think the under is solid.

rolm
01-02-2018, 09:37 AM
Wish the game was at 2 pm and not at 8. Not sure why ESPN would want to put the game against NFL playoffs.

hallcity
01-02-2018, 06:01 PM
I'm reading on Twitter that Bonzie Colson is going to be out eight weeks with a foot fracture. I'm sorry for him and Notre Dame. I'd have to guess that Bagley doesn't have that much competition now for ACC player of the year.

Dev11
01-02-2018, 06:29 PM
Wish the game was at 2 pm and not at 8. Not sure why ESPN would want to put the game against NFL playoffs.

I believe it was to avoid conflict with the NFL playoff game that they are broadcasting, since our game is on ESPN.

I quite enjoy the 6 pm mountain time tip, but I may be in the minority there.

Rich
01-02-2018, 08:17 PM
Good, a week to work on defense.

If I had my preference I'd rather have our bye week later in the schedule. We've had a lot of time off recently. I'd prefer some time closer to the middle of our conference schedule in case we get banged up or need time to just rest or regroup.

rolm
01-02-2018, 08:25 PM
I believe it was to avoid conflict with the NFL playoff game that they are broadcasting, since our game is on ESPN.

I quite enjoy the 6 pm mountain time tip, but I may be in the minority there.

The ESPN broadcast of the Titans-Chiefs game is at 4:35 pm on Saturday. They could easily have moved the Duke-State game to 1 pm or 1:30 pm. With the 8 pm start, the game is in conflict with the Falcons-Rams game (which starts at 8:15 pm).

left_hook_lacey
01-03-2018, 08:33 AM
I wonder if the weather will affect any of the games tonight? I haven't heard anything definitive yet, but with such a wide path of winter weather throughout the south(which is generally unprepared to handle winter weather)you gotta think some games might get cancelled/postponed.

TruBlu
01-03-2018, 09:32 AM
I wonder if the weather will affect any of the games tonight? I haven't heard anything definitive yet, but with such a wide path of winter weather throughout the south(which is generally unprepared to handle winter weather)you gotta think some games might get cancelled/postponed.

The South will get cancelled/postponed.

PackMan97
01-03-2018, 09:46 AM
Wish the game was at 2 pm and not at 8. Not sure why ESPN would want to put the game against NFL playoffs.

Do we really even need to broadcast the game?

Matches
01-03-2018, 09:49 AM
Do we really even need to broadcast the game?

See, you say that and yet.... last year....

PackMan97
01-03-2018, 10:01 AM
See, you say that and yet... last year...

Last year we had a Lottery Pick on the team...this year, we don't have our point guard that made things go against AZ and are the rest of the parts don't seem to be fitting together all that well.

We'll be lucky to keep within 20...at the end of the first half.

Stray Gator
01-03-2018, 10:02 AM
Posted without comment:

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports/college/fsu/mensbasketball/2018/01/02/florida-state-coaching-literacy-against-north-carolina/995305001/

Florida State Coaching For Literacy Against North Carolina

When Florida State takes on No. 14 North Carolina . . . , the Seminole coaching staff will be coaching for more than just a win.

FSU (11-2, 0-1) will host its third annual Fight for Literacy game against the Tar Heels (12-2, 1-0) . . . .

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-03-2018, 10:33 AM
The South will get cancelled/postponed.

Postponed. It shall rise again.

MChambers
01-03-2018, 10:42 AM
Last year we had a Lottery Pick on the team...this year, we don't have our point guard that made things go against AZ and are the rest of the parts don't seem to be fitting together all that well.

We'll be lucky to keep within 20...at the end of the first half.

You're not fooling me or the Weaufx Gods. I remember last year; I remember 2010. I could go on and on.

sagegrouse
01-03-2018, 10:48 AM
You're not fooling me or the Weaufx Gods. I remember last year; I remember 2010. I could go on and on.

I agree. Duke has no chance in Raleigh. State is merely playing "possum."

PackMan97
01-03-2018, 10:51 AM
You're not fooling me or the Weaufx Gods. I remember last year; I remember 2010. I could go on and on.

It's been a while since State has been this bad (imo), and if we were playing against the Cheaters, I might agree with you. However, we only seem to beat Duke when we actually have talent. Besides, if you can only think of two examples in the last 8 years...that doesn't speak well for State's chances. What is Duke's record against State since oh....1997 or so...the last 20 years?

MChambers
01-03-2018, 10:57 AM
It's been a while since State has been this bad (imo), and if we were playing against the Cheaters, I might agree with you. However, we only seem to beat Duke when we actually have talent. Besides, if you can only think of two examples in the last 8 years...that doesn't speak well for State's chances. What is Duke's record against State since oh...1997 or so...the last 20 years?

State won in Raleigh in 2015. So our last two national championship teams lost in Raleigh. We lost in Raleigh in 2013.

I never assume a win over State, especially in Raleigh.

PackMan97
01-03-2018, 11:01 AM
State won in Raleigh in 2015. So our last two national championship teams lost in Raleigh. We lost in Raleigh in 2013.

I never assume a win over State, especially in Raleigh.

I'll take that trade...a win in Raleigh for the Pack, a National Championship for Duke.

So, does that mean if Duke wins in Raleigh your chances for a title are greatly diminished?

AGDukesky
01-03-2018, 11:02 AM
I really like the way these updates show how the conference has done against the other conferences. However it might help to mention how many teams are in the other conferences when comparing number of losses. Both the Big 12 and Big East only have 10 teams versus the ACC with 15- so while the numbers are much better, the disparity is much less.

wobatus
01-03-2018, 11:53 AM
I really like the way these updates show how the conference has done against the other conferences. However it might help to mention how many teams are in the other conferences when comparing number of losses. Both the Big 12 and Big East only have 10 teams versus the ACC with 15- so while the numbers are much better, the disparity is much less.

The Big 12 (-2) is really good this year. But it really is the bottom of the ACC dragging down the OOC records. Wake, Georgia Tech and Pitt.

UrinalCake
01-03-2018, 12:08 PM
Florida State Coaching For Literacy Against North Carolina

They picked a good opponent, as we all know that UNC is against literacy.

wobatus
01-03-2018, 12:14 PM
It's been a while since State has been this bad (imo), and if we were playing against the Cheaters, I might agree with you. However, we only seem to beat Duke when we actually have talent. Besides, if you can only think of two examples in the last 8 years...that doesn't speak well for State's chances. What is Duke's record against State since oh...1997 or so...the last 20 years?

8-35

Actually, 1997 was one of the wins, Herb Sendek's first year, a win in the ACC Tournament. State also beat Duke in the ACC tournament in Sidney Lowe's 1st year, in 2007. And Gottfried won his first home game against Duke, in his second year.

Beware 1st year State coaches.

Keatts was a great hire, I think. He's going to be there a long time and be very successful. One of my favorite stats is extra scoring chances per game. Different ways of going about it. Protect the ball, limit your own TOs. UNC-Wilmington was the lowest in the country in turnovers per possession last year, and that helped them to 3rd in extra scoring chances per game. You can force TOs. Or grab a ton of boards. West Virginia does both. NC State was 322 in extra scoring chances per game last year under Gottfried, at -3. This year they are 20th at +5.4. And the top 20 in this stat, while not exclusively made up of great teams, is littered with good ones. West Virginia number 1 again. Texas Tech, Virginia, Cincinnati, Duke, Rhode Island, Florida, Michigan, Villanova. This is one of those things where teams have more control and it isn't exclusively an issue of talent (of course it helps if you have Bagley and Carter soaking up offensive boards), and NC State's improvement in this area is a sign of Keatt's impact.

PackMan97
01-03-2018, 12:26 PM
8-35

Beware 1st year State coaches.

*sobs*

I love KK, I too think he is a great hire.

I would probably have a much better attitude if Markell Johnson were still on the team. He was disruptive on both ends of the floor, without him I just don't see our pressure D being effective or our transition game (when we get chances).

I would have loved to see what a KK team with Dennis Smith Jr, Terry Henderson and Maverik Rowan looked like...but alas...tis the NC State way.

arnie
01-03-2018, 12:41 PM
Posted without comment:

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports/college/fsu/mensbasketball/2018/01/02/florida-state-coaching-literacy-against-north-carolina/995305001/

Florida State Coaching For Literacy Against North Carolina

When Florida State takes on No. 14 North Carolina . . . , the Seminole coaching staff will be coaching for more than just a win.

FSU (11-2, 0-1) will host its third annual Fight for Literacy game against the Tar Heels (12-2, 1-0) . . . .

Fantastic and appropriate game description

MChambers
01-03-2018, 12:48 PM
I'll take that trade...a win in Raleigh for the Pack, a National Championship for Duke.

So, does that mean if Duke wins in Raleigh your chances for a title are greatly diminished?
Thing is, we used to think we had to lose a game to UNCheat to win a natty, but 2010 took care of that. I want a national championship, but I also want a win in Raleigh.

wobatus
01-03-2018, 12:55 PM
The Big 12 (-2) is really good this year. But it really is the bottom of the ACC dragging down the OOC records. Wake, Georgia Tech and Pitt.

The top 10 ACC teams are 109-16 OOC (per T-Rank and kenpom that leaves out Pitt, Wake, Ga Tech, NC St and BC). The Big 12's 10 teams are 103-16 OOC. Iowa State, at KP 94, is actually ranked behind NC St, BC and Wake.

Big 12's OOC is a little tougher, and their worst losses are "better" than the worst for the ACC's top 10 teams. Iowa State lost at home to Milwaukee (KP 190). But Iowa State itself barely cracks the top 100. Kansas lost at a neutral site (but still local) to Washington, KP 111. And Kansas State lost a neutral site game to Tulsa, which is KP 97, so only 2 losses to teams currently outside the KP top 100.

ACC's bad losses are UNC at home to Wofford (KP 174), Virginia Tech neutral site loss to Saint Louis (KP 184), and Notre Dame h loss to ball State (KP 109).

In some head to heads, Florida State lost a neutral site game to oklahoma State, and Virginia lost to West Virginia at their place.

But if you go team by team, per kenpom, ACC looks a little better in the top 10:

4. Duke 5. Texas Tech
6. Virginia 7. Kansas
11. UNC 10. West Virginia
17. Miami 13. Oklahoma
19. Clemson 22. Texas Christian
25. Florida State 35. Texas
28. Notre Dame 36. Baylor
39. Louisville 40. Kansas State
41. Virginia Tech 51. Oklahoma State
44. Syracuse 92. Iowa State

The bottom of the ACC just has a bunch of bad losses, though. Wake, Pitt and Georgia Tech. If the conference had more balance at the bottom it would match up a lot better. BC is finally creeping into the top 10, but Pitt and Georgia Tech are collapsing.

wobatus
01-03-2018, 12:57 PM
The bottom of the ACC just has a bunch of bad losses, though. Wake, Pitt and Georgia Tech. If the conference had more balance at the bottom it would match up a lot better. BC is finally creeping into the top 10, but Pitt and Georgia Tech are collapsing.

Of course I meant BC creeping into top 100, not top 10.

wobatus
01-03-2018, 01:06 PM
*sobs*

I love KK, I too think he is a great hire.

I would probably have a much better attitude if Markell Johnson were still on the team. He was disruptive on both ends of the floor, without him I just don't see our pressure D being effective or our transition game (when we get chances).

I would have loved to see what a KK team with Dennis Smith Jr, Terry Henderson and Maverik Rowan looked like...but alas...tis the NC State way.

I agree, losing Johnson hurts. He had a nice game against ND last year, too. I remember listening to it during a long drive. And yup, looking at his game logs, his high-scoring game with 12 on 6-9, 5 assists, 1 TO. State came from 21 down with 12 minutes left to down 7 with the ball under a minute, but that's when Johnson committed his only TO.

TruBlu
01-03-2018, 01:35 PM
I really like the way these updates show how the conference has done against the other conferences. However it might help to mention how many teams are in the other conferences when comparing number of losses. Both the Big 12 and Big East only have 10 teams versus the ACC with 15- so while the numbers are much better, the disparity is much less.

Maybe including OOC winning percentage would help clear up the disparity.

Then listing the average power ratings of the OOC teams. Maybe factor in whether the point spreads were covered. Were there key injuries involved?

(Wow! I didn’t mean for this post to be snarky. Another New Year’s Resolution shot all to hell.)

Olympic Fan
01-03-2018, 01:45 PM
Last night at Louisville, Pitt started five freshmen.

When was the last time that happened in the ACC? Has it ever happened in the ACC (I know Michigan's Fab Five in 1991)?

I thought about BC in 2012, but while Steve Donohue started four freshman every game, he also started senior transfer Matt Humphries every game.

And I looked at Duke in 1983, but while K usually started four freshmen, they were always joined by either Tom Emma, Chip Engelland or Dan Meagher.

Obviously, this Duke team starts four freshman every game, but unless Grayson gets hurt, it won't be five (and if he did miss a game, would O'Connell or DeLaurier take his place?)

Can anybody think of an ACC team with five freshmen starters?

wobatus
01-03-2018, 03:45 PM
Last night at Louisville, Pitt started five freshmen.

When was the last time that happened in the ACC? Has it ever happened in the ACC (I know Michigan's Fab Five in 1991)?

I thought about BC in 2012, but while Steve Donohue started four freshman every game, he also started senior transfer Matt Humphries every game.

And I looked at Duke in 1983, but while K usually started four freshmen, they were always joined by either Tom Emma, Chip Engelland or Dan Meagher.

Obviously, this Duke team starts four freshman every game, but unless Grayson gets hurt, it won't be five (and if he did miss a game, would O'Connell or DeLaurier take his place?)

Can anybody think of an ACC team with five freshmen starters?

'82-'83 Georgia Tech started 4 quite often, Mark Price, John Salley, Danny Pearson and Tim Harvey. Yvon Joseph was also on that team but got hurt after 2 games and never started, although he likely would have eventually if healthy, since he averaged 10/7 in 15 minutes in the 2 games he played.

Outside the ACC, aside from the fab 5, maybe 1978-79 Evansville. The year after all of their players were killed when the team's plane went down. Per sports reference almost all their players were first year guys. But apparently some of them were redshirts elsewhere who transferred.

One Evansville player missed the 1977 plane crash. He died 2 weeks later in a car accident.

UrinalCake
01-03-2018, 07:48 PM
FSU is 9-19 from three and leads the CHeats 51-40 at the half. I guess we're not the only ones who have trouble defending them from deep.

ncexnyc
01-03-2018, 07:56 PM
FSU is 9-19 from three and leads the CHeats 51-40 at the half. I guess we're not the only ones who have trouble defending them from deep.


It's been a fun game so far. Sadly, the Cheats caught a big break with the weather as the building has quite a few empty seats.

Had to laugh at Cofer as his first open three was an airball and he threw up another brick near the end of the half.

I know this board had some interesting discussions about three point shooting defense, but lost in that debate was the fact that FSU has a number of players who are capable of taking and making that shot and with some decent ball movement you are going to get some open looks.

Hopefully FSU can seal the deal and send the Cheats home with a big L.

Dr. Rosenrosen
01-03-2018, 08:03 PM
UNC shooting better from behind the arc than inside. Kenny Williams single handedly keeping them in it.

BTW, where did ESPN dig up Tom Crean? He’s awful.

UrinalCake
01-03-2018, 08:40 PM
FSU has let the CHeats back in it, but the CHeats have wasted opportunities to capitalize even further. Lots of missed wide open shots and a few turnovers.

The three ball has stopped falling for FSU but they are finding other ways to score. They certainly don't "look" as good as they did against us, but they still look a lot better than UNC.

duketaylor
01-03-2018, 09:05 PM
...anything.

Until now, that was pitiful.

Wander
01-03-2018, 09:07 PM
FSU with an absurd choke job. Even with the fact that they still won.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-03-2018, 09:07 PM
Interesting that beating UNC doesn't warrant a court rush anymore.

DukieInBrasil
01-03-2018, 09:08 PM
FSU with an absurd choke job. Even with the fact that they still won.

True, but Cheaters choked hard too, after getting it to a 1pt deficit. The ACC just got all muddled up, with a lot of teams at 1-1.

ncexnyc
01-03-2018, 09:12 PM
Nice to see Wake bounce back with a win, after they gave that game away on Saturday. BC gets another close, but no cigar.

Dr. Rosenrosen
01-03-2018, 09:15 PM
Wasn’t the line on the FSU game -1.5? If so, that’s just amazing to me. And a great reminder of why I stopped betting on basketball.

duke4ever19
01-03-2018, 09:25 PM
Anybody else see the weird incident involving Ted Valentine and Joel Berry III?

Berry was going to grab a long pass from a teammate, an FSU player grabbed his arm to prevent him from being able to get to the ball in time, so it's a clear foul.

Well, Tv Teddy does this dramatic "stop in your tracks" sign when Berry goes to him to tell him that he was held on the play, and then turns his back to Berry and faces the crowd, who begins cheering for Valentine because of it.

Honestly, it looked like he was only doing it to entertain the fans, because it was a little over the top.

Yes, I know this is the insidecarolina twitter, but it does give the best shot I've seen of it: https://twitter.com/InsideCarolina/status/948731679287455744

OldPhiKap
01-03-2018, 09:27 PM
Anybody else see the weird incident with Ted Valentine and Joel Berry III?

Berry was going to grab a long pass from a teammate, an FSU player grabbed his arm to prevent him from being able to get to the ball in time, so it's a clear foul.

Well, Tv Teddy does this dramatic "stop in your tracks" sign and turns his back to Berry and faces the crowd. Honestly, it looked like he was doing it to entertain the fans, because it was a little over the top.

Yes, I know this is the insidecarolina twitter, but it does give the best shot I've seen of it: https://twitter.com/InsideCarolina/status/948731679287455744

I hope TV Ted gets called out for that. That is absurd, even if to a UNC player.

RaiderDevil
01-03-2018, 09:35 PM
I hope TV Ted gets called out for that. That is absurd, even if to a UNC player.

I noticed it, but noticed way before it that Carolina's players questioned literally every single call the refs made. I'd have been sick enough of it to turn my back too.

PackMan97
01-03-2018, 09:41 PM
I hope TV Ted gets called out for that. That is absurd, even if to a UNC player.

Perhaps Carolina might not get as many calls as they used to. I'm sure many of the refs must not be too happy with the way Carolina has handled themselves recently.

CameronBornAndBred
01-03-2018, 09:43 PM
'Noles might want to work on those free throws a bit...

OldPhiKap
01-03-2018, 09:50 PM
Joe Ovies tweet: Most Anticipated Album of 2018:

7959

JD for Three!
01-03-2018, 09:57 PM
I hope TV Ted gets called out for that. That is absurd, even if to a UNC player.

I agree. A good ref uses something like that as a teaching moment. A mediocre ref at least pretends to listen. Teddies is an I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this..

The flip side is what the player does. A smart one gets to the ref quickly and says “what did I do sir”. A mediocre player says “nah, you didn’t see it all”. A dumb player says “sh@# man. I didn’t foul nobody!”

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-03-2018, 09:58 PM
A dumb player says “sh@# man. I didn’t foul nobody!”

"Dumb" because of the double negative, I assume.

devildeac
01-03-2018, 09:58 PM
Perhaps Carolina might not get as many calls as they used to. I'm sure many of the refs must not be too happy with the way Carolina has handled themselves recently.

Not to worry. Should be time real soon for a swofford email to all the acc refs with proper instructions how to conduct themselves during "u"nc games. :rolleyes:

PackMan97
01-03-2018, 10:05 PM
Not to worry. Should be time real soon for a swofford email to all the acc refs with proper instructions how to conduct themselves during "u"nc games. :rolleyes:

Curse you...couldn't you allow me to live the dream at least for a few more hours?

devildeac
01-03-2018, 10:12 PM
Curse you...couldn't you allow me to live the dream at least for a few more hours?

I didn't think it applied to ND games. :(

JD for Three!
01-03-2018, 10:13 PM
"Dumb" because of the double negative, I assume.

Nope. Wasn’t even thinking that way. My point was “dumb”from the standpoint of pushing back at or arguing with a ref. A lot of them at all levels are thin-skinned in a profession that really requires a pretty thick skin. The fans create some of it, but some of these guys bring it with them.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-03-2018, 10:19 PM
Nope. Wasn’t even thinking that way. My point was “dumb”from the standpoint of pushing back at or arguing with a ref. A lot of them at all levels are thin-skinned in a profession that really requires a pretty thick skin. The fans create some of it, but some of these guys bring it with them.

Man, I really need to remember to add my eye rolls more often.

Yes, culture has changed significantly over the last thirty years in how players and refs interact. Most players in the NBA complain every time they miss a shot or get called for a foul. Almost unwatchable for someone old school.

JD for Three!
01-03-2018, 10:25 PM
Man, I really need to remember to add my eye rolls more often.

Yes, culture has changed significantly over the last thirty years in how players and refs interact. Most players in the NBA complain every time they miss a shot or get called for a foul. Almost unwatchable for someone old school.

I was treading lightly to see whether there was a wink there.

One of many, many things K does well is teach his players how to interact with refs. We have had a number over time that have mastered the art of walking to the ref solemnly and asking to be shown how to avoid a similar foul again. Stroke that ref’s ego a bit,and you might get a call or no-call that helps later. Not always, but playing to the known egos is never bad.

Sorry I was brain dead about your post. I got home and finished the first beverage. Have to stop reading the forum after I do that!

PackMan97
01-03-2018, 10:29 PM
I didn't think it applied to ND games. :(

...I'm not sure there is a ref crew in the world crooked enough to help out the Pack. :/

devildeac
01-03-2018, 10:42 PM
I was treading lightly to see whether there was a wink there.

One of many, many things K does well is teach his players how to interact with refs. We have had a number over time that have mastered the art of walking to the ref solemnly and asking to be shown how to avoid a similar foul again. Stroke that ref’s ego a bit,and you might get a call or no-call that helps later. Not always, but playing to the known egos is never bad.

Sorry I was brain dead about your post. I got home and finished the first beverage. Have to stop reading the forum after I do that!

After the second beverage, come join us here:

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?3840-Ymm-Beer

devildeac
01-03-2018, 10:45 PM
...I'm not sure there is a ref crew in the world crooked enough to help out the Pack. :/

Now that there is funny stuff.

;)

duketaylor
01-03-2018, 11:18 PM
UVA is demolishing VT at VT.

Not sure how good this Wahoo team is, but at least very good.

JD for Three!
01-03-2018, 11:29 PM
After the second beverage, come join us here:

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?3840-Ymm-Beer

Happy to! Thanks for the invite.

CameronBornAndBred
01-03-2018, 11:31 PM
With FSU's solid game against Duke in Cameron, and their win over the Heels in Tallahasee, will the 'Noles be ranked higher than UNC next poll? They barely escaped Wake at home. Both teams have big games vs ranked teams this weekend, so those will obviously the most recent in voters minds, but if the voting were tomorrow I'd say FSU has a very good argument for leapfrogging and the Heels have a good case for being out of the top 20. (If Heels lose on Saturday, they definitely will be; Go Wahoos!)

JetpackJesus
01-03-2018, 11:54 PM
With FSU's solid game against Duke in Cameron, and their win over the Heels in Tallahasee, will the 'Noles be ranked higher than UNC next poll? They barely escaped Wake at home. Both teams have big games vs ranked teams this weekend, so those will obviously the most recent in voters minds, but if the voting were tomorrow I'd say FSU has a very good argument for leapfrogging and the Heels have a good case for being out of the top 20. (If Heels lose on Saturday, they definitely will be; Go Wahoos!)

I think there's no question FSU jumps UNC as of now. FSU lost by 1 to Oklahoma State and lost in a good game against Duke.

UNC got destroyed by MSU, lost to Wofford at home, and lost to FSU.

I'm not sure UNC is even ranked come Monday, though they probably will be.

AGDukesky
01-04-2018, 06:00 AM
I think there's no question FSU jumps UNC as of now. FSU lost by 1 to Oklahoma State and lost in a good game against Duke.

UNC got destroyed by MSU, lost to Wofford at home, and lost to FSU.

I'm not sure UNC is even ranked come Monday, though they probably will be.

If Virginia takes care of business against the heels on Saturday, then FSU will have to win at Miami to guarantee jumping UNC. However even with two losses this week, UNC likely stays ranked given the quality of opponents...

UrinalCake
01-04-2018, 07:07 AM
You guys are nuts for thinking UNC is dropping out of the polls. The voters love them. Prior to yesterday’s game one bracket projection by a well-known writer had them as the #6 OVERALL seed. Pollsters simply ignore any of UNC’s losses and then fawn over them when they win.

Matches
01-04-2018, 08:45 AM
UNC losing two games on the road to ranked teams isn't going to drop them from #12 out of the polls, even if they lose decisively to UVa. They'd probably fall to around #20 or so.

How on Earth did Miami lose to GT? I know we've got our own stinker loss in there too but... seriously... GT?

OldPhiKap
01-04-2018, 09:07 AM
UNC losing two games on the road to ranked teams isn't going to drop them from #12 out of the polls, even if they lose decisively to UVa. They'd probably fall to around #20 or so.

How on Earth did Miami lose to GT? I know we've got our own stinker loss in there too but... seriously... GT?

Like the ACC of old. Take nothing for granted.

And agree, losing in Tallahassee to a very good FSU squad by one does not change uNC's ranking much.

Spanarkel
01-04-2018, 09:35 AM
Wow, ESPN's "article" on TV Ted's antic last night labels him as Ted Washington: that's pathetic.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21958352/referee-ted-washington-turns-back-north-carolina-joel-berry

OldPhiKap
01-04-2018, 09:40 AM
Wow, ESPN's "article" on TV Ted's antic last night labels him as Ted Washington: that's pathetic.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21958352/referee-ted-washington-turns-back-north-carolina-joel-berry

Valentine's Day and Washington's Birthday are pretty close to each other. Easy mistake.


(Jeez)

Dr. Rosenrosen
01-04-2018, 09:45 AM
Valentine's Day and Washington's Birthday are pretty close to each other. Easy mistake.


(Jeez)
Either way, I’m enjoying all the cheater fans’ griping. It’s always the refs’ fault when they lose.

devildeac
01-04-2018, 09:48 AM
Valentine's Day and Washington's Birthday are pretty close to each other. Easy mistake.


(Jeez)

When TV teddy refs, *every* day is valentine's day. :rolleyes:

OldPhiKap
01-04-2018, 09:49 AM
Either way, I’m enjoying all the cheater fans’ griping. It’s always the refs’ fault when they lose.

I didn't watch much of the game, but at the end it seemed that neither team executed well. Perhaps they should focus there.

Haven't seen Huck's comments yet, I'm sure they are nuggets of wisdom.

But having said all of that, FSU can ball. I'm glad we had them in Cameron instead of in Tallahassee. Could have been two very different results if we played them on the road and FSU had to play at the dump (Wofford 79 - UNC 75 notwithstanding).

Wahoo2000
01-04-2018, 10:01 AM
UVA is demolishing VT at VT.

Not sure how good this Wahoo team is, but at least very good.

That should surprise a lot of media members, since we were unranked to start the year. I also seem to remember a TON of media "hot takes" that VT was going to surpass us this season. It's just one game, but hopefully that thought goes out the window after yesterday.

Wahoo2000
01-04-2018, 10:03 AM
Wow, ESPN's "article" on TV Ted's antic last night labels him as Ted Washington: that's pathetic.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21958352/referee-ted-washington-turns-back-north-carolina-joel-berry

Maybe done intentionally to tick off Teddy? (TIC) I'm sure he was seething when he saw it, though.

wobatus
01-04-2018, 10:16 AM
I didn't watch much of the game, but at the end it seemed that neither team executed well. Perhaps they should focus there.

Haven't seen Huck's comments yet, I'm sure they are nuggets of wisdom.

But having said all of that, FSU can ball. I'm glad we had them in Cameron instead of in Tallahassee. Could have been two very different results if we played them on the road and FSU had to play at the dump (Wofford 79 - UNC 75 notwithstanding).

I think this is right. Losses effect the AP rankings etc but it barely budged kenpom if at all. T-Rank has it UNC 11 and FSU 15. Sounds about right.

@FSU was probably the 3rd to 5th most likely loss for UNC after Colson went down. 1. @ Duke. 2. @ UVA 3. Home Duke 4. @ FSU 5. @ Clemson 6. @ Louisville 7. Home Miami 8. @ Syracuse 9. @ Notre Dame 10. @ Va Tech 11. @ NC State (rivalry/payback Keatts UNC, even Lowe beat them first time in Raleigh).

Not calling all of those losses. And hey they could lose to BC, Pitt, anyone. Or steal some wins even near the top of that list. But that's about how I'd rank the defeat possibilities. Maybe BC game should be higher. Maybe Georgia Tech after last night, or drop Miami down based on that. That's close to how T-rank would list them, other than NC State. He has them going 11-7. Probably it's give or take 2 wins or losses. 81-80 at FSU almost was the exact projection.

wobatus
01-04-2018, 10:25 AM
That should surprise a lot of media members, since we were unranked to start the year. I also seem to remember a TON of media "hot takes" that VT was going to surpass us this season. It's just one game, but hopefully that thought goes out the window after yesterday.

I saw one blogger who has written up the ACC pre-season in depth for a few years, and he picked UVA first this year. I congratulated him on not following the crowd. Although I didn't agree. But he made me think UVa was being overlooked. Certainly the computers, kenpom and T-Rank, liked the Wahoos. Of course some random blogger isn't the media. The common meme was losing Perrantes etc (but Bennett loses a star every year and another one steps up), and all the transfers, signaled a step back.

OldPhiKap
01-04-2018, 10:30 AM
I think this is right. Losses effect the AP rankings etc but it barely budged kenpom if at all. T-Rank has it UNC 11 and FSU 15. Sounds about right.

@FSU was probably the 3rd to 5th most likely loss for UNC after Colson went down. 1. @ Duke. 2. @ UVA 3. Home Duke 4. @ FSU 5. @ Clemson 6. @ Louisville 7. Home Miami 8. @ Syracuse 9. @ Notre Dame 10. @ Va Tech 11. @ NC State (rivalry/payback Keatts UNC, even Lowe beat them first time in Raleigh).

Not calling all of those losses. And hey they could lose to BC, Pitt, anyone. Or steal some wins even near the top of that list. But that's about how I'd rank the defeat possibilities. Maybe BC game should be higher. Maybe Georgia Tech after last night, or drop Miami down based on that. That's close to how T-rank would list them, other than NC State. He has them going 11-7. Probably it's give or take 2 wins or losses. 81-80 at FSU almost was the exact projection.

I would be glad to sweep y’all but do not expect it in the least. Always happy with a split.

(Okay, “happy” isn’t the right word but you know what I mean).

Hard for me to gauge UNC yet because Cam Johnson is getting back into shape. He adds a lot to the team.

wobatus
01-04-2018, 10:44 AM
I would be glad to sweep y’all but do not expect it in the least. Always happy with a split.

(Okay, “happy” isn’t the right word but you know what I mean).

Hard for me to gauge UNC yet because Cam Johnson is getting back into shape. He adds a lot to the team.

Yeah, I'm thinking that's one we "steal." But I think that's about the computer ranked loss odds with some hunches tossed in. Duke is kinda designed like UNC kryptonite this year with the 2 athletic big guys down low.

Henderson
01-04-2018, 11:01 AM
Did I read the UNC-CH/FSU box score correctly that Berry scored 28 pts. and only had one assist, 2 rebounds, and shot 43% from the floor?

If I were a team mate or coach, those are not the kind of numbers I'd want from my point guard. It's puff-puff-pass, not puff-puff-puff.

Matches
01-04-2018, 11:05 AM
Did I read the UNC-CH/FSU box score correctly that Berry scored 28 pts. and only had one assist, 2 rebounds, and shot 43% from the floor?

If I were a team mate or coach, those are not the kind of numbers I'd want from my point guard. It's puff-puff-pass, not puff-puff-puff.

I only saw the end of the game but at that point UNC's offense was to set a screen for Berry and let him drive. It was working reasonably well as he seemed to get to the rim at will. Arguably he should've hit Johnson in the corner on the last play but otherwise it was a pretty effective strategy.

Wander
01-04-2018, 11:24 AM
I would be glad to sweep y’all but do not expect it in the least. Always happy with a split.

(Okay, “happy” isn’t the right word but you know what I mean).

No way. For the past 7 years, we've swept UNC when we're the better team and have stolen one from them when UNC is the better team. I want that trend to continue. We're the better team this year.

Rich
01-04-2018, 11:50 AM
I would be glad to sweep y’all but do not expect it in the least. Always happy with a split.

(Okay, “happy” isn’t the right word but you know what I mean).

Hard for me to gauge UNC yet because Cam Johnson is getting back into shape. He adds a lot to the team.


Yeah, I'm thinking that's one we "steal." But I think that's about the computer ranked loss odds with some hunches tossed in. Duke is kinda designed like UNC kryptonite this year with the 2 athletic big guys down low.


No way. For the past 7 years, we've swept UNC when we're the better team and have stolen one from them when UNC is the better team. I want that trend to continue. We're the better team this year.

Wobatus is a Cavalier, not a UNCheater. OPK's comments were with respect to UVA, with which I agree. Tough to win in Charlottesville.

OldPhiKap
01-04-2018, 12:05 PM
Wobatus is a Cavalier, not a UNCheater. OPK's comments were with respect to UVA, with which I agree. Tough to win in Charlottesville.

My bad, I thought someone said he was a UNC fan and that was the context of my comment. Apologies if I had that wrong.

He's a good poster, whatever his allegiance.

Would take a split with UVa, too.

sagegrouse
01-04-2018, 12:09 PM
Yeah, I'm thinking that's one we "steal." But I think that's about the computer ranked loss odds with some hunches tossed in. Duke is kinda designed like UNC kryptonite this year with the 2 athletic big guys down low.

Wobatus: You are a valued member of DBR, but you may want to say "the Hoos" rather "we" to avoid confusing those of us who are easily confused.

CDu
01-04-2018, 12:11 PM
No way. For the past 7 years, we've swept UNC when we're the better team and have stolen one from them when UNC is the better team. I want that trend to continue. We're the better team this year.

Well, that's not quite true. We split with them in 2011 and 2014 when we were the better team. We did sweep them in 2013 and 2015 though. And we did split in 2012, 2016, and 2017, when UNC was better. But it's basically 50/50 whether we split or sweep when we are the better team.

Wahoo2000
01-04-2018, 12:18 PM
My bad, I thought someone said he was a UNC fan and that was the context of my comment. Apologies if I had that wrong.

He's a good poster, whatever his allegiance.

Would take a split with UVa, too.

I think we only have one scheduled matchup this year, in Durham. You guys take that one if you're happy with a split..... I'll take one in the ACCT ;-)

MChambers
01-04-2018, 12:34 PM
Well, that's not quite true. We split with them in 2011 and 2014 when we were the better team. We did sweep them in 2013 and 2015 though. And we did split in 2012, 2016, and 2017, when UNC was better. But it's basically 50/50 whether we split or sweep when we are the better team.

1. We took 2 of 3 from UNCheat last year.

2. Duke is always the better team.

wobatus
01-04-2018, 12:40 PM
Wobatus: You are a valued member of DBR, but you may want to say "the Hoos" rather "we" to avoid confusing those of us who are easily confused.


Old Phi Kap is right. Apologies for any confusion. I enjoy the forum and the opportunity to discuss ACC hoops here. I’ve hit most of the sbnation ACC fan sites but haven’t visited Streaking the Lawn much.

devildeac
01-04-2018, 12:47 PM
Old Phi Kap is right. Apologies for any confusion. I enjoy the forum and the opportunity to discuss ACC hoops here. I’ve hit most of the sbnation ACC fan sites but haven’t visited Streaking the Lawn much.

WTH? I didn't know OZZIE had his own fan site. :eek:

(I'll let him tell "the rest of the story.")

Back on topic: Looking forward to a weekend of exciting ACC hoops.

CDu
01-04-2018, 12:48 PM
Old Phi Kap is right. Apologies for any confusion. I enjoy the forum and the opportunity to discuss ACC hoops here. I’ve hit most of the sbnation ACC fan sites but haven’t visited Streaking the Lawn much.

I thought you were a Heel, but Rich had me doubting myself. Thanks for clarifying!

AGDukesky
01-04-2018, 12:59 PM
1. We took 2 of 3 from UNCheat last year.

2. Duke is always the better team.

Also, I’m not sure how much better Duke was without Kyrie in 2011 when we lost; and in 2014 Duke and UNC tied in the ACC standings, with that Duke team losing only one less game overall than UNC including the first one in the NCAAs...

Olympic Fan
01-04-2018, 01:11 PM
With all the focus on the Cheats losing last night (well-deserved attention IMO), we are overlooking several other significant results:

-- Georgia Tech beating Miami in Atlanta ... I know it was a home game for the Jackets, but they lost to Grambling and Wright State at home. To beat No. 15 -- anywhere! -- is a stunning surprise. It is a sign that the Jackets are getting healthy after some real struggles earlier. Not sure what it says about Miami -- but it really puts the pressure on the 'Canes to play well at home Sunday when FSU visits.

-- Virginia routing Virginia Tech ... a few of our Wahoo fans have mentioned this one and it is significant, especially in Blacksburg.. Indeed, many thought Virginia Tech would make a major step up this season (me included), but the Cavs dominated them. Is Virginia that much better than we thought or is VPI that much worse? We might get a clue Saturday when UNC visits C'ville. If the Cavs have a letdown, I'll lose all my recent good feelings for them.

-- Notre Dame over NC State -- easily ... I know the Pack is struggling and ND was at home, but in the first game without Bonzie Colson, that was impressive. We'll see Saturday if the Pack's downward spiral continues (I hope).

-- Clemson wins at Boston College ... any Duke fan can explain why winning at BC is an impressive accomplishment. The Tigers are in the top 25 and with their resume, deserve to be higher. One small point -- the bulk of this team (Mitchell, Reed, Thomas; all they lose is Grantham and DeVoe) return next year, offering Zion Williamson the illusion that he can fit in and make the Tigers a top 10 team. He might not be wrong.

-- Wake holds off Syracuse in the last few minutes ... amazingly, the Deacs handle the end-game well. Not so amazingly, the 'Cuse fails on the road.

Pretty interesting night of ACC basketball. I hate waiting until Saturday for another ACC game.

OldPhiKap
01-04-2018, 01:20 PM
Should add (if it was overlooked) that Louisville righted the ship and destroyed Pitt on Tuesday. Clemson up next.

Wander
01-04-2018, 01:25 PM
Well, that's not quite true. We split with them in 2011 and 2014 when we were the better team. We did sweep them in 2013 and 2015 though. And we did split in 2012, 2016, and 2017, when UNC was better. But it's basically 50/50 whether we split or sweep when we are the better team.

It's debatable who was better in 2011 and 2014 between Duke and UNC. In 2010, 2013, and 2015, Duke was very obviously better. I'm not really interested in putting myself in a spot where I have to argue for a UNC team so I'm just going to remove myself from arguing those points any further. Suffice it to say, in recent years UNC can't seem to sweep us even when they're a better team, and the reverse is not true.

Tripping William
01-04-2018, 01:26 PM
-- Notre Dame over NC State -- easily ... I know the Pack is struggling and ND was at home, but in the first game without Bonzie Colson, that was impressive. We'll see Saturday if the Pack's downward spiral continues (I hope).



And, with that win, Mike Brey passed our beloved ( :rolleyes: ) Digger Phelps as ND's winningest all-time basketball coach. Well done!

Olympic Fan
01-04-2018, 01:30 PM
Should add (if it was overlooked) that Louisville righted the ship and destroyed Pitt on Tuesday. Clemson up next.

I did mention that yesterday, pointing out that Pitt started five freshmen in the loss. Ryan Luther, the team's best player -- and one legit ACC player -- is out with an injury.

I asked about the last time an ACC team started five freshman. I just learned this morning that it was Boston College in December of 2015:

December 6, 2015, BC started Jerome Robinson, A.J. Turner, Johncarlos Reyes, Evan Meznieks and Sammy Barnes-Thompkins

They lost to Massachusetts-Lowell, 68-64

CDu
01-04-2018, 01:43 PM
Also, I’m not sure how much better Duke was without Kyrie in 2011 when we lost; and in 2014 Duke and UNC tied in the ACC standings, with that Duke team losing only one less game overall than UNC including the first one in the NCAAs...


It's debatable who was better in 2011 and 2014 between Duke and UNC. In 2010, 2013, and 2015, Duke was very obviously better. I'm not really interested in putting myself in a spot where I have to argue for a UNC team so I'm just going to remove myself from arguing those points any further. Suffice it to say, in recent years UNC can't seem to sweep us even when they're a better team, and the reverse is not true.

In both of those years we were the higher-rated (comfortably so) Pomeroy team, and the higher seed in the NCAA tournament. It was closer in 2011 (1 vs 2), but in 2014 we were a 3 seed and UNC a 6. So, yeah, I think it's fair to say that we were the better team. There hasn't been a seed disparity greater than 3/6 in the last 7 years (a couple of 1/4 splits, but that's about the same spread).

But I'll certainly accept the amendment that when we are better, we have been more successful than when UNC is better.

I will also allow MChambers' counterpoints ;).

Rich
01-04-2018, 02:18 PM
Old Phi Kap is right. Apologies for any confusion. I enjoy the forum and the opportunity to discuss ACC hoops here. I’ve hit most of the sbnation ACC fan sites but haven’t visited Streaking the Lawn much.

NOW I've seen it all!

OldPhiKap
01-04-2018, 02:26 PM
NOW I've seen it all!

"Gabby Johnson is right"

JasonEvans
01-04-2018, 02:48 PM
December 6, 2015, BC started Jerome Robinson, A.J. Turner, Johncarlos Reyes, Evan Meznieks and Sammy Barnes-Thompkins

And, somewhat amazingly, 2 of them have since transferred and 1 of them is a little used scrub. Only 1 is a starter today (Robinson) and 1 is even in the rotation (Reyes). Freshman starters don't necessarily turn into solid players down the road.

wilson
01-04-2018, 03:06 PM
...We split with [unc] in 2011 and 2014 when we were the better team. We did sweep them in 2013 and 2015 though. And we did split in 2012, 2016, and 2017, when UNC was better. But it's basically 50/50 whether we split or sweep when we are the better team.What happened in 2010?

Truth&Justise
01-04-2018, 03:22 PM
What happened in 2010?

https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000Q3M8impx.ds/s/750/750/20100306-Duke-UNC-661-dla.jpg

CDu
01-04-2018, 03:25 PM
What happened in 2010?

That was outside of the 7-year window the previous poster had specified. But, yeah, that was awesome.

DukieInKansas
01-04-2018, 06:17 PM
That was outside of the 7-year window the previous poster had specified. But, yeah, that was awesome.

But always worth remembering!

wilson
01-04-2018, 06:27 PM
That was outside of the 7-year window the previous poster had specified. But, yeah, that was awesome.


But always worth remembering!8250 may or may not be a four-digit pin in a couple of areas of my life.

devildeac
01-04-2018, 06:52 PM
8250 may or may not be a four-digit pin in a couple of areas of my life.

9F9F9F in others if you need something more complex.

billy
01-04-2018, 11:31 PM
I noticed it, but noticed way before it that Carolina's players questioned literally every single call the refs made. I'd have been sick enough of it to turn my back too.

I know it's wishful thinking, but, I'd love to see a video montage of said UNC players questioning calls leading up to this, thereby justifying TV Ted's actions

wobatus
01-05-2018, 10:51 AM
With all the focus on the Cheats losing last night (well-deserved attention IMO), we are overlooking several other significant results:

-- Georgia Tech beating Miami in Atlanta ... I know it was a home game for the Jackets, but they lost to Grambling and Wright State at home. To beat No. 15 -- anywhere! -- is a stunning surprise. It is a sign that the Jackets are getting healthy after some real struggles earlier. Not sure what it says about Miami -- but it really puts the pressure on the 'Canes to play well at home Sunday when FSU visits.

-- Virginia routing Virginia Tech ... a few of our Wahoo fans have mentioned this one and it is significant, especially in Blacksburg.. Indeed, many thought Virginia Tech would make a major step up this season (me included), but the Cavs dominated them. Is Virginia that much better than we thought or is VPI that much worse? We might get a clue Saturday when UNC visits C'ville. If the Cavs have a letdown, I'll lose all my recent good feelings for them.

-- Notre Dame over NC State -- easily ... I know the Pack is struggling and ND was at home, but in the first game without Bonzie Colson, that was impressive. We'll see Saturday if the Pack's downward spiral continues (I hope).

-- Clemson wins at Boston College ... any Duke fan can explain why winning at BC is an impressive accomplishment. The Tigers are in the top 25 and with their resume, deserve to be higher. One small point -- the bulk of this team (Mitchell, Reed, Thomas; all they lose is Grantham and DeVoe) return next year, offering Zion Williamson the illusion that he can fit in and make the Tigers a top 10 team. He might not be wrong.

-- Wake holds off Syracuse in the last few minutes ... amazingly, the Deacs handle the end-game well. Not so amazingly, the 'Cuse fails on the road.

Pretty interesting night of ACC basketball. I hate waiting until Saturday for another ACC game.

The Notre Dame win is all the more impressive because Farrell also went down with a bad ankle sprain with 5 minutes to go in the first half and never returned. And ND played even better after that. State really misses Johnson.

Stray Gator
01-06-2018, 12:54 PM
The Louisville at Clemson game may be the ugliest ACC game I've seen in decades. Just a laugh-fest of errors -- missed dunks, turnover after turnover, shots finding nothing but rim. At the half, the score is 23-23. Each team has made one three-pointer. But neither team has taken a single free throw. At this rate, it may finish as the fastest game on record.

devildeac
01-06-2018, 12:56 PM
Dew point in Charlottesville now is -9F. Your PSA of the day. ;)

devildeac
01-06-2018, 12:59 PM
The Louisville at Clemson game may be the ugliest ACC game I've seen in decades. Just a laugh-fest of errors -- missed dunks, turnover after turnover, shots finding nothing but rim. At the half, the score is 23-23. Each team has made one three-pointer. But neither team has taken a single free throw. At this rate, it may finish as the fastest game on record.

I vaguely recall a Duke-f$u game in the last decade or so when the halftime score was on the order of 21-19 or some such nonsense. Somebody help me here. :o

DukieInKansas
01-06-2018, 02:55 PM
I turned on the Unc at UVA game with under 4 minutes left in the game. The score changed by 1 point after that - lots if misses and UVA dribbling.

devildeac
01-06-2018, 02:57 PM
I'm glad MBB doesn't play at Hooville this year as they're proving/playing better than expected.

(They were my second favorite team today. ;))

timmy c
01-06-2018, 02:58 PM
I turned on the Unc at UVA game with under 4 minutes left in the game. The score changed by 1 point after that - lots if misses and UVA dribbling.
I think that described the whole game--long possessions, shot clock violations, and an occasional bucket.

BandAlum83
01-06-2018, 03:03 PM
I saw parts of the Louisville / Clemson game. Glad to see the tigers win, but I have to say I've enjoyed Dan Bonner's color commentary for 30+ years now. Steady, on point and insightful without over thee top personality. I guess that's why ESPN never picked him up. Over there is about personality only. What a change when I cut to the UVA game and heard Dickie who probably should have retired 5 years ago. I still like him, but really.

He started the color commentator as a personality and the ones following have become unbearable. (Almost) makes me appreciate Billy packer now.

W&LHoo
01-06-2018, 03:08 PM
I think that described the whole game--long possessions, shot clock violations, and an occasional bucket.

Hoo fan here, so maybe I'm seeing the team through rose (orange?) colored glasses, but this year's Virginia team is a lot more dynamic on offense than in years previous. Today we had at least 3-4 turnovers that led to pretty thunderous dunks, and some pretty dynamic drives to the basket.

Wahoo2000
01-06-2018, 03:14 PM
I'm glad MBB doesn't play at Hooville this year as they're proving/playing better than expected.

(They were my second favorite team today. ;))

A few guys - Jerome, Diakite, and DeAndre Hunter are coming along MUCH quicker than expected. It's made a huge difference in the last 4-5 games. We played pretty well in the nonconference schedule, but in the last couple of weeks things have started to really "click" for each of those guys. It's taken us from having 4 dependable players (Hall, Wilkins, Guy, Salt) to 7. I can honestly say none of those 7 being on the floor make me nervous, no matter the quality of opponent or situation (ok, maybe sit Salt if opponents are pressing/fouling late..... but that's it).

As long as the players don't look ahead like I am about to.... we should win our next 5 (should be around double-digit favorites for all 5) and roll into Cameron undefeated in league play. I don't think we can come out of there with a win though, our achilles heel seems to be rebounding. We're not really controlling the defensive boards the way we have in the past, and I'd expect the Carter/Bagley combo to hammer us on the glass. Still, if we're 8-1 at the midway point I'll hardly be disappointed even though the bulk of our difficult games come in the second half.

CDu
01-06-2018, 03:17 PM
UNC had only two players top 6 points today, and only 3 players average more than 1 point per shot. They scored just 49 points on 54 shots... AND they turned it over 19 times. That's a pretty darn good defense in Charlottesville. Again.

Hauerwas
01-06-2018, 03:18 PM
Loved watching Roy just sitting on the bench watching his team lose. He must be a fantastic system coach and practice coach, but he literally made zero adjustments against UVA today to help his team.

As I've said, UNC doesn't pass the eye test this year. They have one elite player and a ton of role players, and Luke Maye is reducing back to the mean. He benefited greatly by being the fifth guy on last year's team but when defenses actually key on him he is incredibly average. Felton is a turnover waiting to happen and Cameron Johnson looks like a shell of the player he was at Pitt.

UVA still sets basketball back 50 years, but they do seem to have some athletes this year who can actually break you down off the dribble. Glad we are playing them at home...

timmy c
01-06-2018, 03:22 PM
Hoo fan here, so maybe I'm seeing the team through rose (orange?) colored glasses, but this year's Virginia team is a lot more dynamic on offense than in years previous. Today we had at least 3-4 turnovers that led to pretty thunderous dunks, and some pretty dynamic drives to the basket.

the turnovers for dunks were amazing. UVA's defense was locked in and frustrated the cheats. There defense and 2nd chance points won the game. However, I wouldn't call that an example of good offense, just fantastic defense. When either team got there defense set, it became a slugfest.

kshepinthehouse
01-06-2018, 03:37 PM
Loved watching Roy just sitting on the bench watching his team lose. He must be a fantastic system coach and practice coach, but he literally made zero adjustments against UVA today to help his team.

As I've said, UNC doesn't pass the eye test this year. They have one elite player and a ton of role players, and Luke Maye is reducing back to the mean. He benefited greatly by being the fifth guy on last year's team but when defenses actually key on him he is incredibly average. Felton is a turnover waiting to happen and Cameron Johnson looks like a shell of the player he was at Pitt.

UVA still sets basketball back 50 years, but they do seem to have some athletes this year who can actually break you down off the dribble. Glad we are playing them at home...

Maye has looked terrible against UVA and MSU. I’m guessing he will feast on lesser competition.

I thought Felton was supposed to be good??? He looks shaky at best.

TKG
01-06-2018, 03:56 PM
Loved watching Roy just sitting on the bench watching his team lose. He must be a fantastic system coach and practice coach, but he literally made zero adjustments against UVA today to help his team. ...

Roy was teaching his players how to help themselves. You know, teach a man to fish......

Dr. Rosenrosen
01-06-2018, 04:00 PM
Maye has looked terrible against UVA and MSU. I’m guessing he will feast on lesser competition.

I thought Felton was supposed to be good??? He looks shaky at best.
Well, his uncle is a worthless load. So there’s that...

dbcooper
01-06-2018, 04:02 PM
We now see how the SACS and NCAA's strong recommendations are taking its toll and hurting athletic efforts for the College of Chapel Hill... Painting pine cones must be difficult....;);)

JasonEvans
01-06-2018, 04:04 PM
I thought Felton was supposed to be good??? He looks shaky at best.

Roy is doing what he is best at... taking OAD talents and turning them into 3 or 4 year players. It really is impressive.

-Jason "yeah, I know Felton was not thought of as a OAD by the time he arrived in Chapel Hill, but when he committed to the Heels, he was ranked in the top ten in his class" Evans

TKG
01-06-2018, 04:15 PM
Roy is doing what he is best at... taking OAD talents and turning them into 3 or 4 year players. It really is impressive.

Turning wheat into chaff, so to speak.

camion
01-06-2018, 04:17 PM
Separating wheat from chaff, so to speak.

More like turning wine into water.

Olympic Fan
01-06-2018, 04:17 PM
Notre Dame down nine at the half at Syracuse.

The Irish not only missing Colson, but Matt Ferrell (their second best player) is also out. Notre Dame just 2-of-12 from 3 point range.

Unless Notre Dame rallies, we'll be three games into the ACC season and everybody except Clemson and Virginia will have a loss.

Pitt is the only team that's 0-3 ... although NC State (0-2 at the moment) could get there with a loss to Duke tonight.

UrinalCake
01-06-2018, 04:32 PM
Impressive performance by UVA. Their defense is so much fun to watch when you’re not playing against them. They don’t have insane athletes or anything, they are just so disciplined and they rotate and help perfectly. I know we’ll never get to that level playing with offensive-minded OAD freshmen every year, but they provide a good model for us on D.

PackMan97
01-06-2018, 04:34 PM
We now see how the SACS and NCAA's strong recommendations are taking its toll and hurting athletic efforts for the College of Chapel Hill... Painting pine cones must be difficult...;);)

LOL! That was one of the greatest things to come out of the UNC scandal...that the prior incantation of the "Carolina Way" had athletes making pine cone turkeys for easy A's...but at least they went to class.

Roy's inability to sign top talent the past few years is definitely showing, though it looks like their recruiting is on the upswing...and with one and done players, the talent on a team can change in the blink of an eye.

CDu
01-06-2018, 04:34 PM
Maye has looked terrible against UVA and MSU. I’m guessing he will feast on lesser competition.

I thought Felton was supposed to be good??? He looks shaky at best.

Maye’s All- ACC campaign has taken a hit the past 5 games. He has shot just 22-66 from the foeld, and has fewer points the FGA of that time. Looks like teams have figured out if you don’t leave him open he gets very ordinary. He deserves a lot of credit for honing that jumper, but his lack of height and athleticism prevent him from being more than a catch and shoot option.

ChillinDuke
01-06-2018, 04:36 PM
This ND-Cuse game is pretty horrible to watch. Both teams look mighty ordinary, at least the current version of ND with their injuries.

- Chillin

OldPhiKap
01-06-2018, 04:43 PM
“It was a big ‘ole butt kicking, that’s all it was. Their defense was a million times stronger than our offense. We didn’t have very good movement. We’re still working to get shots and tried to go one-on-one way too many times. Didn’t get as much as we needed to of kicking the ball to the basket. . . . I thought Joel (Berry) competed his buns off and made a couple big shots that kept us in it, but we just act like we’ve never been coached so that falls onto me. I’ve got to do a better job of coaching this team. There’s not a heck of a lot more to say.”

— Roy, post-game p.c.

kshepinthehouse
01-06-2018, 04:44 PM
Maye’s All- ACC campaign has taken a hit the past 5 games. He has shot just 22-66 from the foeld, and has fewer points the FGA of that time. Looks like teams have figured out if you don’t leave him open he gets very ordinary. He deserves a lot of credit for honing that jumper, but his lack of height and athleticism prevent him from being more than a catch and shoot option.

Maye is alarmingly unathletic 😂

Green Wave Dukie
01-06-2018, 04:46 PM
More like turning wine into water.

Turning sheep into goats.

CDu
01-06-2018, 04:51 PM
LOL! That was one of the greatest things to come out of the UNC scandal...that the prior incantation of the "Carolina Way" had athletes making pine cone turkeys for easy A's...but at least they went to class.

Roy's inability to sign top talent the past few years is definitely showing, though it looks like their recruiting is on the upswing...and with one and done players, the talent on a team can change in the blink of an eye.

Yep. This was always the year that a dropoff would be expected. The Heels got absurd good fortune in keeping 5-6 McDonald’s AA talents into their junior/senior years. Well, now the well is drying up, and the Heels have Berry and Pinson, but that’s it. Guys like Maye and Williams deserve credit for hard work to become relevant, but the Heels roster is just not as talented nor as experienced as usual. And things will be worse next year barring some late recruiting wins or more grad transfers like Johnson arrive. With no Berry and no Pinson, that offense gets really dicey.

JasonEvans
01-06-2018, 05:03 PM
Less than a minute to go and Notre Dame is leading Syracuse by three at Syracuse. The Irish Have only committed four fouls the entire second half.

Mike Brey is the early pick for ACC COY... him or Tony B

JasonEvans
01-06-2018, 05:08 PM
Less than a minute to go and Notre Dame is leading Syracuse by three at Syracuse. The Irish Have only committed four fouls the entire second half.

Mike Brey is the early pick for ACC COY... him or Tony B

Notre Dame wins on a last-second fast break tip in by Rex Pflugger. If you watch the replay, there are four Syracuse players ahead of Pflugger when the play started. But, two of them just stop running and it allows him to get an uncontested tip in for the win. I’m not sure who the gangly dude #21 is for Syracuse, but he utterly gives up on the game winning play. He’d run for miles if I was Jimmy B.

Wahoo2000
01-06-2018, 05:09 PM
Less than a minute to go and Notre Dame is leading Syracuse by three at Syracuse. The Irish Have only committed four fouls the entire second half.

Mike Brey is the early pick for ACC COY... him or Tony B

Given how key Colson is for ND, if Brey gets them to a top 4 ACC regular season finish, I think he deserves it. Unless UVA somehow wins the regular season outright maybe (but honestly, I don't really expect either of those 2 things to happen).

JasonEvans
01-06-2018, 05:10 PM
Notre Dame wins on a last-second fast break tip in by Rex Pflugger. If you watch the replay, there are four Syracuse players ahead of Pflugger when the play started. But, two of them just stop running and it allows him to get an uncontested tip in for the win. I’m not sure who the gangly dude #21 is for Syracuse, but he utterly gives up on the game winning play. He’d run for miles if I was Jimmy B.

JWill just noticed the same thing I did on the post-game show. I thought he would roast the Syr guys a bit more than he did.

CDu
01-06-2018, 05:14 PM
Less than a minute to go and Notre Dame is leading Syracuse by three at Syracuse. The Irish Have only committed four fouls the entire second half.

Mike Brey is the early pick for ACC COY... him or Tony B

ND won despite shooting 30% from the field. I am glad I didn’t watch.

cato
01-06-2018, 05:33 PM
I turned on the Unc at UVA game with under 4 minutes left in the game. The score changed by 1 point after that - lots if misses and UVA dribbling.

I tuned in with 6:00 minutes left, and saw UVA score 300% more on one shot. The last field goal of the game. With almost 5:00 left.

MChambers
01-06-2018, 06:08 PM
“It was a big ‘ole butt kicking, that’s all it was. Their defense was a million times stronger than our offense. We didn’t have very good movement. We’re still working to get shots and tried to go one-on-one way too many times. Didn’t get as much as we needed to of kicking the ball to the basket. . . . I thought Joel (Berry) competed his buns off and made a couple big shots that kept us in it, but we just act like we’ve never been coached so that falls onto me. I’ve got to do a better job of coaching this team. There’s not a heck of a lot more to say.”

— Roy, post-game p.c.

Did you just make this up? Or did Roy say this? It sounds too much like what he always says to be what he actually said, if you get my drift.

left_hook_lacey
01-06-2018, 06:09 PM
UNC still has a lot of losing to do to make my 19-11 regular season prediction come true. But they're off to a good start. 😀

Think about it. They are 1-2 in ACC play, needing a last second, contested floater from Berry to beat wake in chapel Hill, otherwise they'd be 0-3.

That team is in trouble folks. ENJOY!

OldPhiKap
01-06-2018, 06:28 PM
Did you just make this up? Or did Roy say this? It sounds too much like what he always says to be what he actually said, if you get my drift.

Real quote.

And yeah, this seems to be a recurring theme. That, or his players just don’t care as much as he does.

ncexnyc
01-06-2018, 06:48 PM
I hate being the voice of reason, but I wouldn't write the Cheats off just yet. A number of people on this forum have been doing this for several years now and we saw how that turned out last season.

We had our fun with Meeks and with Maye and many of us had to eat our words, myself included. I'm pretty sure all of you were as worried as I was on Tuesday watching the FSU game. As long as Berry suits up they've got a shot. Someone called Johnson a shell of his former self, but in fairness to the kid he's coming off of a knee surgery. Maye definitely is an All-Gottlieb candidate who is clearly playing out of position, but while he's been exposed against bigger, more physically gifted players he'll get more than his share against lessor opponents, and that's because he works hard.

There's still a lot of basketball left to be played and the Cheats success depends largely on whether or not they get a reliable third option going. While I'd love to see another NIT run for the Cheats, but I've got the feeling they'll pull it off with smoke and mirrors and finish near the top third of the ACC.

Wheat/"/"/"
01-06-2018, 06:54 PM
I really don't think UNC has been playing all that poorly the past couple of games, they are just not playing well enough to beat two really good teams on the road this early in the season.

There are two areas of concern that jump out to me.

Unforced turnovers are the main problem. When you have those, along with the forced ones a good UVA defensive team causes, it's an uphill climb to beat a team that good.

I'm a little surprised by them too. This is a pretty good ball handling team... the majority seem to come off poor passes, poor anticipation. The multiple line ups with freshmen and integrating Cam Johnson into the rotation are probably the biggest reason, but that's no excuse. They have to do a better job limiting those bad passes. The good news is that its an area that usually improves as the season goes along.

The other issue is getting good entry passes into the post to keep teams honest inside. The freshman Brooks is fundamentally sound and usually won't hurt you, but as a center, he's not strong enough to hold his positioning when he gets it, and lacks enough quickness/explosiveness to make up for being pushed out. He's not putting any pressure on the defense inside.

Maye is better at getting good positioning, but is undersized in there as a center. He's a natural stretch 4 who can score inside with a little space, just struggles with the post up game against the big guys.
Maye had a poor game today. He missed several attempts that he would usually make, and never found a rythem. It happens. UVA's defense had a lot to do with that too. He's not a weak spot, just often being forced to play out of position.

I'm optimistic that as we get deeper into the season, Sterling Manley will get more playing time at center as he gets into better shape. He's gotten much better as the season has gone along playing with more intensity. He has some real big man talent and fits what UNC needs most this season, someone to provide power in the post.

Felton has been somewhat of a disappointment so far. He has a "deer in the headlights" look out there. He obviously has talent, but seems a little overwhelmed at the moment. Some kids are slow to mature, like Isaiah Hicks was, something never factored in the rankings by the supposed recruiting experts when kids have to face big time college competition.

Anybody who watches him play and thinks it's Roy somehow holding him back because he was rated high is playing in the shallow end of the pool. The kid is not performing at a high enough level yet to make an impact and get prime playing time. Simple as that.

Wheat/"/"/"
01-06-2018, 07:06 PM
Yep. This was always the year that a dropoff would be expected. The Heels got absurd good fortune in keeping 5-6 McDonald’s AA talents into their junior/senior years. Well, now the well is drying up, and the Heels have Berry and Pinson, but that’s it. Guys like Maye and Williams deserve credit for hard work to become relevant, but the Heels roster is just not as talented nor as experienced as usual. And things will be worse next year barring some late recruiting wins or more grad transfers like Johnson arrive. With no Berry and no Pinson, that offense gets really dicey.

The well is far from drying up.

Roy has two players coming in next year that will make an impact right away. Nassir Little and Coby White. Reachon Black will take more time to develope, but he has a big upside.

I've been watching their senior season highlights, and while we have to take that with a grain of salt, it's obvious they have real talent.

Little looks like a OAD talent, if he wants to be, while you guys will hate Coby White and the foul calls he will get pressuring defenses off the dribble.

CDu
01-06-2018, 07:18 PM
Roy has two players coming in next year that will make an impact right away. Nassir Little and Coby White. Reachon Black will take more time to develope, but he has a big upside.

I've been watching their senior season highlights, and while we have to take that with a grain of salt, it's obvious they have real talent.

Little looks like a OAD talent, if he wants to be, while you guys will hate Coby White and the foul calls he will get pressuring defenses off the dribble.

I didn’t say you won’t have ANY good players. But you will be really young, and will be replacing an All-ACC guy in Berry and a very underrated player in Pinson. I think Little has the chance to be really good from day one (though SFs often struggle as freshmen under Williams), but I am not sold that White will be a big impact guy right away. Still, I think you guys will be notably worse next year than this year. Experience matters, and experienced top-tier talent is huge. And next year’s UNC squad will be short on the latter - a notable difference from the last 3-4 years.

Wheat/"/"/"
01-06-2018, 08:56 PM
I didn’t say you won’t have ANY good players. But you will be really young, and will be replacing an All-ACC guy in Berry and a very underrated player in Pinson. I think Little has the chance to be really good from day one (though SFs often struggle as freshmen under Williams), but I am not sold that White will be a big impact guy right away. Still, I think you guys will be notably worse next year than this year. Experience matters, and experienced top-tier talent is huge. And next year’s UNC squad will be short on the latter - a notable difference from the last 3-4 years.

Not trying to be confrontational, but what you said was , "well, now the well is drying up" and I'm pointing out to you that will not be the case with Little, White and Black coming in. (Zion Is still a possibility too.)

Coby White is going to be a player. You can count on that. You don't see many kids play with his energy all the time. That's what stands out about him, along with his skill level and court awareness.

As for next year, you are also discounting that UNC will have a Sr. Kenny Williams, Luke Maye and I'm pretty sure that grad student Cam Johnson likely returns as well. That's a solid foundation, along with a rapidly improving big in Manley inside. There will also be some experienced quality depth with Robinson, Platek and Felton.

We can expect UNC to be very competitive next season.

CDu
01-06-2018, 09:18 PM
Not trying to be confrontational, but what you said was , "well, now the well is drying up" and I'm pointing out to you that will not be the case with Little, White and Black coming in. (Zion Is still a possibility too.)

Coby White is going to be a player. You can count on that. You don't see many kids play with his energy all the time. That's what stands out about him, along with his skill level and court awareness.

As for next year, you are also discounting that UNC will have a Sr. Kenny Williams, Luke Maye and I'm pretty sure that grad student Cam Johnson likely returns as well. That's a solid foundation, along with a rapidly improving big in Manley inside. There will also be some experienced quality depth with Robinson, Platek and Felton.

We can expect UNC to be very competitive next season.

With all due respect, my statement was correct. The well IS running dry. The previous 3-4 years, UNC has had 4-5 McDonalds All-American juniors and seniors. This year you have just two. Next year? None. And likely just one McDs guy at all, and he will be a frosh.

So, the well of veteran top-tier talent is, in fact, running dry.

Next year UNC will still have some talent, and will be competitive. It should not be anywhere near the top ten unless something crazy happens.

Wheat/"/"/"
01-06-2018, 09:26 PM
With all due respect, my statement was correct. The well IS running dry. The previous 3-4 years, UNC has had 4-5 McDonalds All-American juniors and seniors. This year you have just two. Next year? None. And likely just one McDs guy at all, and he will be a frosh.

So, the well of veteran top-tier talent is, in fact, running dry.

Next year UNC will still have some talent, and will be competitive. It should not be anywhere near the top ten unless something crazy happens.

I doubt you'll have much support for this opinion, but as always, we'll find out on the court.

CDu
01-06-2018, 09:31 PM
I doubt you'll have much support for this opinion, but as always, we'll find out on the court.

I mean, it isn’t opinion. It is a fact. You guys had McDs juniors and seniors all over the roster the last few years. You won’t next year.

And I have been pretty right about UNC the last few years, and so far I am looking right this year (that this team won’t be as good as the last few iterations). I feel comfortable saying that unless UNC scores some surprise recruits/transfers they will be worse next year than this year.

Wheat/"/"/"
01-06-2018, 10:02 PM
I mean, it isn’t opinion. It is a fact. You guys had McDs juniors and seniors all over the roster the last few years. You won’t next year.

And I have been pretty right about UNC the last few years, and so far I am looking right this year (that this team won’t be as good as the last few iterations). I feel comfortable saying that unless UNC scores some surprise recruits/transfers they will be worse next year than this year.

I'd have to do a quick search to see where you predicted UNC playing for the championship the past two years before agreeing how right you were about UNC's recent teams. Somehow I'm feeling you might have been a little off the mark :)

CDu
01-06-2018, 10:10 PM
I'd have to do a quick search to see where you predicted UNC playing for the championship the past two years before agreeing how right you were about UNC's recent teams. Somehow I'm feeling you might have been a little off the mark :)

I said they would be a top-10 team. I don’t predict championships. The tourney is a crapshoot. Only foolish people predict championships.

duke4ever19
01-06-2018, 10:15 PM
I said they would be a top-10 team. I don’t predict championships. The tourney is a crapshoot. Only foolish people predict championships.

I like trying to predict who will win the championship. I'm a "fool" for doing so?

CDu
01-06-2018, 10:19 PM
[/B]

I like trying to predict who will win the championship. I'm a "fool" for doing so?

If you say “so and so will be the champion” before the season, and you feel strongly about it, that is silly.
Picking the tourney is fun. But shouldn’t be taken seriously. Trying to guess is fun, so long as you understand that you will in all likelihood be wrong.

duke4ever19
01-06-2018, 10:24 PM
If you say “so and so will be the champion” before the season, and you feel strongly about it, that is silly.
Picking the tourney is fun. But shouldn’t be taken seriously. Trying to guess is fun, so long as you understand that you will in all likelihood be wrong.

Unless you are some deity with omniscience, it's all guesswork, no matter if your sentence is declarative or predictive.

Before the season begins, you are basically saying to everyone, "Don't make declarative statements so I don't say you are silly." Why not just let fans be fans?

CDu
01-06-2018, 10:38 PM
Unless you are some deity with omniscience, it's all guesswork, no matter if your sentence is declarative or predictive.

Before the season begins, you are basically saying to everyone, "Don't make declarative statements so I don't say you are silly." Why not just let fans be fans?

I am not telling you to do or not do anything. You are more than welcome to say whatever you want within the board rules. And I am more than welcome to have my opinion about whether I think what is said is silly.

duke4ever19
01-06-2018, 10:45 PM
I am not telling you to do or not do anything. You are more than welcome to say whatever you want within the board rules. And I am more than welcome to have my opinion about whether I think what is said is silly.

Yep, you are absolutely within your right to call one type of person a "fool" or "silly" depending on whether they use a declarative sentence vs a speculative sentence.

Edit:

You said: "Only foolish people predict championships."

You've since backpedaled a bit to say it's just silly, but only "silly" if you use a declarative sentence, and before the season. But you are okay with predictions (like what we do with the bracket) so long as we do it in a spirit of fun.

CDu
01-06-2018, 10:53 PM
Yep, you are absolutely within your right to call one type of person a "fool" or "silly" depending on whether they use a declarative sentence vs a speculative sentence.

I said “foolish.” As in, acting like a fool. One can act foolish without being a fool.

But whatever. I am not in the mood to bicker about this anymore tonight. Gotta get over the loss so I can sleep enough to be ready for when my 3yo starts screaming at 5am. Late start times suck from a parenting perspective.

duke4ever19
01-06-2018, 11:58 PM
I said “foolish.” As in, acting like a fool. One can act foolish without being a fool.

But whatever. I am not in the mood to bicker about this anymore tonight. Gotta get over the loss so I can sleep enough to be ready for when my 3yo starts screaming at 5am. Late start times suck from a parenting perspective.

I think the juxtaposition of the adjectives you are using to describe a person (foolish, silly) with the thing they are doing (guessing/predicting the national champion) is just so . . . off.

Heck, I'd be more inclined to agree with you if you stated that a person was foolish for betting a large sum of money on guessing the champion, or maybe getting a large tattoo, something with actual consequences for the prediction, but you didn't even do that. It's just a bold, unadorned, "Only foolish people predict championships."

But it's what NCAA basketball is best known for . . . March Madness, filling out brackets, trying to predict winners to win your office pool etc. You can qualify your original statement with stuff like, "well, only if you predict before the season," or what your attitude is when doing it (a spirit of fun etc.), but I just don't think there's enough here to warrant someone being called foolish and silly for doing normal fan stuff (guessing/predicting winners/losers in sports).

Wahoo2000
01-07-2018, 01:51 AM
I think the juxtaposition of the adjectives you are using to describe a person (foolish, silly) with the thing they are doing (guessing/predicting the national champion) is just so . . . off.

Heck, I'd be more inclined to agree with you if you stated that a person was foolish for betting a large sum of money on guessing the champion, or maybe getting a large tattoo, something with actual consequences for the prediction, but you didn't even do that. It's just a bold, unadorned, "Only foolish people predict championships."

But it's what NCAA basketball is best known for . . . March Madness, filling out brackets, trying to predict winners to win your office pool etc. You can qualify your original statement with stuff like, "well, only if you predict before the season," or what your attitude is when doing it (a spirit of fun etc.), but I just don't think there's enough here to warrant someone being called foolish and silly for doing normal fan stuff (guessing/predicting winners/losers in sports).

I think what he was trying to say is that if you think you can successfully predict the champion, you're probably a fool, or at least fooling yourself. Like the person who thinks they can pick the winning lotto number - if you hit, you might delude yourself into thinking that your knowledge/skill at making the pick is what made the difference, but honestly - it was pure dumb luck.

UrinalCake
01-07-2018, 07:56 PM
FSU is down but not out against Miami, 61-69 at the under-4 timeout. They've had a brutal start to the conference schedule, playing @Duke, UNC, and @Miami. Cofer and Angola are a combined 0-7 from 3 :(