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kAzE
12-20-2017, 11:14 PM
Duke wins by 64, and UNC loses to an unranked non-conference opponent (KenPom #197 prior to tonight) in the Dean Dome. What a great night.

ChillinDuke
12-20-2017, 11:15 PM
I love everything.

- Chillin

crdaul
12-20-2017, 11:15 PM
Duke wins by 64, and UNC loses to an unranked non-conference opponent in the Dean Dome. What a great night.

Ouch!

ipatent
12-20-2017, 11:16 PM
A great evening all around.

richardjackson199
12-20-2017, 11:16 PM
If you see a cheat fan, just say - Fletcher Magee! Then start barking - Woof! Woof!

Love it

Wander
12-20-2017, 11:17 PM
Wofford didn't even play well in the last quarter or so of the game. Gotta like our chances to get the sweep this year.

UrinalCake
12-20-2017, 11:17 PM
It's not like Wofford had an unreal night bombing from three either. They shot 7-22 from three and 43.8% overall. They just took it to the CHeats and didn't back down. GTHCGTH!!!

Kedsy
12-20-2017, 11:17 PM
According to Pomeroy, Evansville is #158 and Wofford is #197.

ehdg
12-20-2017, 11:18 PM
How sweeet it is tonight! GTHC!

DUKIECB
12-20-2017, 11:19 PM
I just posted a picture of Wofford's logo on my Instagram feed with a bunch of laughing emojis and no other comments. Lol

UrinalCake
12-20-2017, 11:19 PM
Time to head over to IC to watch the meltdown. Those guys put the fraud in Schadenfreude.

OldPhiKap
12-20-2017, 11:21 PM
Wofford wins in Chaoel Hill.

Clemson has never done it.

Gonna be a fun day at work tomorrow.

moonpie23
12-20-2017, 11:21 PM
heels looked good...

dairedevil
12-20-2017, 11:23 PM
And don't you just love it every time they say, " and Wofford knocks off the defending National Champions, North Carolina Tarheels"?

Saratoga2
12-20-2017, 11:24 PM
Time to head over to IC to watch the meltdown. Those guys put the fraud in Schadenfreude.

This is the definition of a bad loss. Bring out the crying towel.

niveklaen
12-20-2017, 11:26 PM
And don't you just love it every time they say, " and Wofford knocks off the defending National Champions, North Carolina Tarheels"?

no...

dukelion
12-20-2017, 11:27 PM
Now that is a baaaaadddd loss.

I keep hitting refresh on kenpom to see the damage.

Vegas had Wofford as 25 pt dogs......pun absolutely intended.

uh_no
12-20-2017, 11:30 PM
And don't you just barf it every time they say, " and Wofford knocks off the defending National Champions, North Carolina Tarheels"?

fixed that one up for you

MrPoon
12-20-2017, 11:32 PM
I’ve only watched them twice this year, tonight and the MSU game amazingly, can’t wait to pass on that mojo later in the year. If you can defend and slow the pace UNC really seems to lack answers. They got very little on the break, great defensive coaching.

MrPoon
12-20-2017, 11:33 PM
Of course knowing the polls, they’ll fall maybe a spot or two......

ndkjr70
12-20-2017, 11:33 PM
Guys it’s not that bad if you describe it as: Duke and UNC combined to average a 30-Point victory tonight.

OZ
12-20-2017, 11:40 PM
According to Pomeroy, Evansville is #158 and Wofford is #197.


While that may be important somewhere to somebody, Wofford is 2-0 in the ACC.

UrinalCake
12-20-2017, 11:45 PM
My favorite quote from IC so far, complaining about the refs (what a surprise) for the charge they called on Berry


hockeytownheel
(6828)
63 months
32 minutes ago

i think you missed the part where not one but two players hit his waste area and nudged him toward the defender who drew charge...

disagree but symantics at this point

Berry got hit in the "waste" area? I didn't see anybody kick his butt. I mean, except Wofford but they did that to the whole team.

Ultrarunner
12-20-2017, 11:47 PM
I’ve only watched them twice this year, tonight and the MSU game amazingly, can’t wait to pass on that mojo later in the year. If you can defend and slow the pace UNC really seems to lack answers. They got very little on the break, great defensive coaching.

I'm not that good. I watch them in person against Portland and MSU. I tuned in tonight.

Good times.

uh_no
12-20-2017, 11:49 PM
Now that is a baaaaadddd loss.

I keep hitting refresh on kenpom to see the damage.

Vegas had Wofford as 25 pt dogs...pun absolutely intended.

It's slow to update....perhaps the system is busy rethinking it's life after calling that one 30 points wrong.

OldPhiKap
12-20-2017, 11:52 PM
My favorite from IC:

“Run em Till They Puke Roy

No classes. No mercy.”


Right. Like they were distracte by classes. LOfnL.

smvalkyries
12-20-2017, 11:53 PM
Who lost to Wofford? and Urinal Cake could they have been talking about the tarheel " waste area", the one with which you might be more familiar?

msdukie
12-20-2017, 11:55 PM
and don't you just love it every time they say, " and wofford knocks off the defending national champions, north carolina tarheels"?

definitely no

msdukie
12-20-2017, 11:56 PM
Wofford didn't even play well in the last quarter or so of the game. Gotta like our chances to get the sweep this year.

UMMM.....it's Duke-Carolina....

CameronBlue
12-21-2017, 12:06 AM
My favorite quote from IC so far, complaining about the refs (what a surprise) for the charge they called on Berry



Berry got hit in the "waste" area? I didn't see anybody kick his butt. I mean, except Wofford but they did that to the whole team.

Yeah but Sym's antics really crack me up. The guy is totally off the rails!

Furniture
12-21-2017, 12:07 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/SInow/status/943705876321275904/video/1

pure joy!

Party like you're WOFFORD

bigperm13
12-21-2017, 12:15 AM
Oh, what a night
Late December back in '17
What a very special night for we
I remember, what a night

cato
12-21-2017, 12:38 AM
Correct thread title: Wofford 79 v UNC 75. This happened at Chapel Hill.

UrinalCake
12-21-2017, 01:02 AM
Games like this really make me appreciate the non-conference home winning streak that Duke has right now, which is up to what, 130 or 140 games? Duke MBB tweeted out that Wendell Carter was 10 months old the last time we lost a non-con home game (which makes me feel really old, because I was in the stands as a student for that loss as well as the one before it). Point being, it's really really hard to go 18 years without taking a random loss, even if you are primarily scheduling weak opponents.

InSpades
12-21-2017, 01:12 AM
For those w/ too much respect for themselves to visit Inside Carolina...

my favorite post over there (after you get past them debating if this is their worst loss ever) is a post criticizing Duke for beating up on Evansville. That post did not age well :).

Makes our BC loss sting a little bit less for me.

PackMan97
12-21-2017, 01:38 AM
Makes our BC loss sting a little bit less for me.

Duke loses to BC. NC State says to Duke, "hold my beer".

NC State loses to UNC-G, Carolina says to State, "hold my beer".

Carolina loses to Wofford, everyone laughs and drinks beer.

gam7
12-21-2017, 01:40 AM
Games like this really make me appreciate the non-conference home winning streak that Duke has right now, which is up to what, 130 or 140 games? Duke MBB tweeted out that Wendell Carter was 10 months old the last time we lost a non-con home game (which makes me feel really old, because I was in the stands as a student for that loss as well as the one before it). Point being, it's really really hard to go 18 years without taking a random loss, even if you are primarily scheduling weak opponents.

It's 139 games. Second longest active streak is Arizona with 46. Also amazing is that we have lost only 3 non-conference home games in the last 34 years (since 1983).

brevity
12-21-2017, 01:46 AM
Correct thread title: Wofford 79 v UNC 75. This happened at Chapel Hill.

I never understood why anyone would put the losing team first, no matter where they played. Wofford 79, UNC 75. Boston College 89, Duke 84.

Anyway... Wofford Makes History with Upset of "Fat and Happy" Tar Heels (http://nsjonline.com/article/2017/12/wofford-makes-history-with-upset-of-fat-and-happy-tar-heels/)


It was a result that had coach Roy Williams boiling over with anger at his team, especially since it came directly on the heels of a gritty come-from-behind effort at Tennessee just three days earlier.

“I didn’t think we came out with the passion we needed to have,” Williams said. “We got a big win on Sunday and we’re fat and happy, and think that things are going to be so easy for us.

“We better by God be ready to play and not act like we’re prima donnas, we’ve got North Carolina (on the front of the jersey), we can walk out there and the other team is going to fold. That team outworked us.”

Is there anyone more quotable than Roy when he's not in the dadgum Christmas spirit?

BigWayne
12-21-2017, 03:24 AM
Duke loses to BC. NC State says to Duke, "hold my beer".

NC State loses to UNC-G, Carolina says to State, "hold my beer".

Carolina loses to Wofford, everyone laughs and drinks beer.

BTW - Wofford's next game is at UNCG.

dalmatians98
12-21-2017, 04:57 AM
Boil Roy, boil! Happy dadgum Holidays! Merry dadgum Christmas!

GO DUKE!

arnie
12-21-2017, 06:28 AM
Of course knowing the polls, they’ll fall maybe a spot or two...

Does this impact their God given right to a No 1 seed?

PackMan97
12-21-2017, 06:44 AM
Does this impact their God given right to a No 1 seed?

Not if they win the ACC, so don't let that happen.

It's games like this that allow us to see how much they have benefited from cheating and shows us at least some of their athletes were impacted by exams. The massively cheating Carolina never lost games like this because they never had exams.

OldPhiKap
12-21-2017, 07:11 AM
For those w/ too much respect for themselves to visit Inside Carolina...

my favorite post over there (after you get past them debating if this is their worst loss ever) is a post criticizing Duke for beating up on Evansville. That post did not age well :).

Makes our BC loss sting a little bit less for me.

The best follow on Twitter is @ICMeltdown. All the fun, no need to actually visit the site. Plus the dude is funny.

Bob Green
12-21-2017, 07:20 AM
This stuff never gets old:


Daggum Roy‏
@DaggumRoy

Christmas frickin’ cainceled

:D

WillJ
12-21-2017, 07:47 AM
Those guys put the fraud in Schadenfreude.

Tee-hee.

BD80
12-21-2017, 07:51 AM
Time to head over to IC to watch the meltdown. Those guys put the fraud in Schadenfreude.

They put the fraud in Academics ...

They put the fraud in NCAA ...

They put the fraud in everything they do ...

weezie
12-21-2017, 07:51 AM
My goodness, what a delightful early Christmas present.

Where's our bowl of wheaties this am?

DUKIE V(A)
12-21-2017, 07:59 AM
I’ve only watched them twice this year, tonight and the MSU game amazingly, can’t wait to pass on that mojo later in the year. If you can defend and slow the pace UNC really seems to lack answers. They got very little on the break, great defensive coaching.

Sounds like you outta be a little more committed to watching Carolina games. 😁

weezie
12-21-2017, 08:15 AM
Forgot to mention the stone-faced crowd sitting in a catatonic daze. They look so much dumber with their eyes crossed and mouths hanging open.

sagegrouse
12-21-2017, 08:18 AM
Duke loses to BC. NC State says to Duke, "hold my beer".

NC State loses to UNC-G, Carolina says to State, "hold my beer".

Carolina loses to Wofford, everyone laughs and drinks beer.

Sign in t-shirt shop in my ski town. "I know what my last words will be -- 'Hold my beer and watch this.'"

throatybeard
12-21-2017, 08:20 AM
My favorite quote from IC so far, complaining about the refs (what a surprise) for the charge they called on Berry



Berry got hit in the "waste" area? I didn't see anybody kick his butt. I mean, except Wofford but they did that to the whole team.

He's wasted his whole area if he plans on getting an education over there. They don't take kindly to athletes doing academic work.

alteran
12-21-2017, 08:21 AM
Of course knowing the polls, they’ll fall maybe a spot or two...

Or maybe the NCAA will just say that when UNC loses, it doesn’t count.

DUKIE V(A)
12-21-2017, 08:22 AM
My favorite quote from IC so far, complaining about the refs (what a surprise) for the charge they called on Berry



Berry got hit in the "waste" area? I didn't see anybody kick his butt. I mean, except Wofford but they did that to the whole team.

Frankly, I can't believe the refs waisted there thyme calling that fowl on Berry either. Their were less than too minutes too play in the second half and that was only the second ore third team fowl on Carolina...Meanwhile Wofford had Ben whistled for tin plus...

Hopefully, the NCAA evens things up next thyme Carolina plays...20 fowls four the other team and none for Carolina...plus, allow the Tarheals too due things the Tarheal way ... no more legitimate classes, exams, ore papers two get in the way of hoops.

OldPhiKap
12-21-2017, 09:01 AM
Or maybe the NCAA will just say that when UNC loses, it doesn’t count.

it only counts if the Bastards admit they lost.

devildeac
12-21-2017, 09:39 AM
My favorite quote from IC so far, complaining about the refs (what a surprise) for the charge they called on Berry



Berry got hit in the "waste" area? I didn't see anybody kick his butt. I mean, except Wofford but they did that to the whole team.

Did any of those cheatin' cretins mention the free throw disparity?

Henderson
12-21-2017, 09:45 AM
Did any of those cheatin' cretins mention the free throw disparity?

Haha. Good one. Like they'd know what a disparity is. They don't do four syllables over there. Except for "Chappaheehaw."

tteettimes
12-21-2017, 09:47 AM
It's not the Dean Dome anymore. It's officially called The Wofford House! 😂 😂 😂

Credit to Tiger Hanson on FB

jv001
12-21-2017, 09:52 AM
Or maybe the NCAA will just say that when UNC loses, it doesn’t count.

Just like the stupid NCAA said that it doesn't count when OJU cheats. I hope the cheats don't deny the loss last night and the NCAA steps in and takes away the victory for Wofford. GoDuke!

uh_no
12-21-2017, 09:52 AM
It's not the Dean Dome anymore. It's officially called The Wofford House! 😂 😂 😂

Credit to Tiger Hanson on FB

they got an all star breakfast...that's for sure....not only were they topped, but smothered as well!

devildeac
12-21-2017, 09:53 AM
Or maybe the NCAA will just say that when UNC loses, it doesn’t count.

bubba: "To any normal person, it's a loss but not to the ncaa."

(I might have altered the original quote a wee bit;).)

OldPhiKap
12-21-2017, 09:53 AM
IC post:

""How many straight empty possessions without a TO?"

Poster obviously does not recognize the genius that is Roy Williams.

Oh, and another contender:

"If the friggin' crowd would get into the game from the tip-off, maybe the boys would feed off their energy. Hate seeing so many people in the lower level just sit there . . . occasionally clap"

If only they had the passion of Roy William's little toe. . . .

UrinalCake
12-21-2017, 09:59 AM
bubba: "To any normal person, it's a loss but not to the ncaa."

(I might have altered the original quote a wee bit;).)

As long as they allow a bunch of non-athletes to lose to Wofford too, this game won’t count.

UrinalCake
12-21-2017, 10:02 AM
Ok, last quote from IC I promise. They have a thread called “Run em till they puke Roy” with the first post of “No classes, no mercy”

Well, they got the first part covered.

devildeac
12-21-2017, 10:02 AM
Did any of those cheatin' cretins mention the free throw disparity?


Haha. Good one. Like they'd know what a disparity is. They don't do four syllables over there. Except for "Chappaheehaw."

From You Might Be A Redneck (my own version) if you think disparity is a social event involving lots of drankin', eatin' and fightin' as in:

"It's gittin' near Christmas and I'm thinkin' about going to disparity my neighbor's throwin' on Friday night."

:o

Henderson
12-21-2017, 10:03 AM
Here's another IC post:

"I have heard too many times over the years how the committee looks at and grades wins and losses. This one may hurt in the long run."

What a genius. No need to go to class. Sitting in your dorm in your underwear drinking bear surfing the internet pays off with brilliant insights.

But obviously not every NCAA committee looks at grades.

OldPhiKap
12-21-2017, 10:06 AM
Did any of those cheatin' cretins mention the free throw disparity?

Even better:

"That #33 dude has fouled out three times over tonight. Absolutely furious the officials didn't get control of that clown earlier. '6 blocks' my [butt]. Dude is hacking us every time."

Also, another gem:

"Coaches just said how we weren't doing the things we should have done down the stretch but we don't call a TO? I don't get it. Isnt that what the TO is for?"

CrazyNotCrazie
12-21-2017, 10:09 AM
From Roy's press conference - you can't make this stuff up:

“I don't know. I'm just so discouraged right now, guys. Thankfully we've got somebody that looks into the rules because I told them I wanted to come back and practice at 6 a.m. tomorrow morning, but we can't. You've got to give them eight hours off. That's the rule."

https://scout.com/college/north-carolina/Article/UNC-Wofford-Roy-Williams-Postgame--112581456

Who knew that they have somebody that looks into the rules in Chapel Hill? As well as someone who could do the math to determine that from the end of the game to 6 am is less than eight hours?

Henderson
12-21-2017, 10:14 AM
From Roy's press conference - you can't make this stuff up:

“I don't know. I'm just so discouraged right now, guys. Thankfully we've got somebody that looks into the rules because I told them I wanted to come back and practice at 6 a.m. tomorrow morning, but we can't. You've got to give them eight hours off. That's the rule."

https://scout.com/college/north-carolina/Article/UNC-Wofford-Roy-Williams-Postgame--112581456

Who knew that they have somebody that looks into the rules in Chapel Hill? As well as someone who could do the math to determine that from the end of the game to 6 am is less than eight hours?

In that presser, Roy used the phrase "fat and happy" more than once to describe his team.

Does he think Kennedy Meeks is still on the team? Or does he get the Wofford House references now?

devildeac
12-21-2017, 10:27 AM
Reading this is almost as fun as being at the office this morning.


(Who am I kidding? This is waaaay more fun/entertaining. :o)

kAzE
12-21-2017, 10:39 AM
Kind of interesting that this thread has more posts than the Evansville post game thread. Do we enjoy Carolina losses more than we enjoy Duke wins? I suppose this is a really bad loss, and our win wasn't really that significant. Still, we are all about the schadenfreude over here on DBR.

DukieInKansas
12-21-2017, 10:40 AM
I was at a performance of The Messiah last night so didn't see this game. I caught a bit of the beginning on the DVR of the Duke game and Wofford had the early lead. Did Carolina ever have a lead in the game?

I may not want to know - I'm enjoying the picture of them down early and never getting a lead.

ChillinDuke
12-21-2017, 10:45 AM
From Roy's press conference - you can't make this stuff up:

“I don't know. I'm just so discouraged right now, guys. Thankfully we've got somebody that looks into the rules because I told them I wanted to come back and practice at 6 a.m. tomorrow morning, but we can't. You've got to give them eight hours off. That's the rule."

https://scout.com/college/north-carolina/Article/UNC-Wofford-Roy-Williams-Postgame--112581456

Who knew that they have somebody that looks into the rules in Chapel Hill? As well as someone who could do the math to determine that from the end of the game to 6 am is less than eight hours?


Haha this is amazing.

How does Roy not know when he can hold practices? Has such a scenario never come up before in his 40 years of college coaching? In the grand scheme of NCAA Basketball coaching and rule following, the 8-hour rule seems like something a coach should know without needing "somebody to look into the rules".

Roy really is the gift that keeps on giving...

- Chillin

Henderson
12-21-2017, 10:46 AM
Kind of interesting that this thread has more posts than the Evansville post game thread. Do we enjoy Carolina losses more than we enjoy Duke wins? I suppose this is a really bad loss, and our win wasn't really that significant. Still, we are all about the schadenfreude over here on DBR.

I was thinking the same thing. And here's what I decided: It's close. But Duke thrashing a badly undermatched team at home is not as significant (or as fun) as Wofford beating UNC-CH at the Wofford House. But Duke winning the PK80 tourney the way it did was more satisfying (to me) than UNC-CH's loss. Sliding scale or something.

camion
12-21-2017, 10:52 AM
I was thinking the same thing. And here's what I decided: It's close. But Duke thrashing a badly undermatched team at home is not as significant (or as fun) as Wofford beating UNC-CH at the Wofford House. But Duke winning the PK80 tourney the way it did was more satisfying (to me) than UNC-CH's loss. Sliding scale or something.

In this case Dog Bites Man is more surprising than Devil Trumps Ace. :D

wobatus
12-21-2017, 11:08 AM
Wofford didn't even play well in the last quarter or so of the game. Gotta like our chances to get the sweep this year.

Yeah, Wofford didn't even shoot crazy lights out. They just outplayed the heels across the board. I didn't even see it as lack of effort, which is the excuse you usually hear. Lack of seriousness or focus. The Heels just aren't talented enough to beat people on an off night or simply impose their will. Maye shot badly and that left Berry as the only offense besides free throws. That Clemson game in Chapel Hill has a bullseye now.

johnb
12-21-2017, 11:09 AM
Those guys put the fraud in Schadenfreude.

Ha.

If only they played Wofford every night.

I feel like a singing Munchkin after the death of the wicked witch.

If only this ended their season.

AtlDuke72
12-21-2017, 11:10 AM
Kind of interesting that this thread has more posts than the Evansville post game thread. Do we enjoy Carolina losses more than we enjoy Duke wins? I suppose this is a really bad loss, and our win wasn't really that significant. Still, we are all about the schadenfreude over here on DBR.

The New Yorker magazine had a great cartoon. Two dogs sitting at a bar drinking Martinis : " It is not enough that dogs win, cats must fail "

MrPoon
12-21-2017, 11:15 AM
Enjoyed this article.
https://deadspin.com/unc-humiliated-at-home-in-loss-to-wofford-1821488757
Highlight was this simple closing line: “It’s the second loss of the season for UNC. Meanwhile, Duke won by 64 points tonight.”
Couldn’t have closed better! Rumor has it the author is up for a Pulitzer Prize.

Wander
12-21-2017, 11:24 AM
Enjoyed this article.
https://deadspin.com/unc-humiliated-at-home-in-loss-to-wofford-1821488757
Highlight was this simple closing line: “It’s the second loss of the season for UNC. Meanwhile, Duke won by 64 points tonight.”
Couldn’t have closed better! Rumor has it the author is up for a Pulitzer Prize.

"To be fair, it’s exam week at UNC. Sometimes a student athlete just doesn’t mentally show up to a game after spending the day physically not showing up to their exam."

Neals384
12-21-2017, 11:27 AM
Not if they win the ACC, so don't let that happen.

It's games like this that allow us to see how much they have benefited from cheating and shows us at least some of their athletes were impacted by exams. The massively cheating Carolina never lost games like this because they never had exams.

Wait. You think they go to exams now?


Sounds like you outta be a little more committed to watching Carolina games. 😁

Maybe, but I kinda think his gift might best be reserved for special occasions.

MChambers
12-21-2017, 11:27 AM
Do you think this means Luke Maye won’t be National Player of the Year? :)

Neals384
12-21-2017, 11:29 AM
Where is wheat this morning anyway?

CameronBornAndBred
12-21-2017, 11:42 AM
My favorite Roy quote.


I mean, guys, we even call a timeout and I say, ‘Guys, we only have two fouls, so we want to trap and trap again and we’ve got to foul.’ We can’t waste all of the clock, and we wasted 15 seconds and I’m standing over there jumping up and down like an idiot. And we had just had, well, it was a terrible, terrible coaching job.”

http://thesportsdaily.com/the-sports-daily/roy-williams-calls-out-tar-heels-players-after-shocking-loss-to-wofford/

60's Devil
12-21-2017, 11:45 AM
Terriers are 2 and0 versus the ACC this year.. Also beat Ga. Tech. They have a new arena and a great team.

OldPhiKap
12-21-2017, 11:59 AM
Impressive that Wofford outscored the Bastards in both halves.

Dr. Rosenrosen
12-21-2017, 12:05 PM
Kind of interesting that this thread has more posts than the Evansville post game thread. Do we enjoy Carolina losses more than we enjoy Duke wins? I suppose this is a really bad loss, and our win wasn't really that significant. Still, we are all about the schadenfreude over here on DBR.
I disagree. The things that have happened to UNC, including last night's loss, are of their own doing. They are not the victims of misfortune.

scha·den·freu·de
ˈSHädənˌfroidə
noun


pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune.

Dr. Rosenrosen
12-21-2017, 12:14 PM
"To be fair, it’s exam week at UNC. Sometimes a student athlete just doesn’t mentally show up to a game after spending the day physically not showing up to their exam."
Creative, poignant and concise. I give it a 10.

I also enjoyed this exchange...


Stephen Andersen
12/21/17 12:04am
Kinda sad how the same handful of commenters have the time and energy to show up with snarky comments on every minor blog post. Perhaps they think enough stars will cause them to “level up”?

Reply

RogerMurdock
Stephen Andersen
12/21/17 2:39am
UNC lost to Wofford at home. That event is why snark was invented.

BandAlum83
12-21-2017, 12:50 PM
I was at a performance of The Messiah last night so didn't see this game. I caught a bit of the beginning on the DVR of the Duke game and Wofford had the early lead. Did Carolina ever have a lead in the game?I may not want to know - I'm enjoying the picture of them down early and never getting a lead.

"After briefly allowing Carolina to get out to a modest lead midway through the first half, Wofford regained a one-point advantage by halftime and never trailed in the second, leading by as many as 13."

DukieInKansas
12-21-2017, 01:03 PM
"After briefly allowing Carolina to get out to a modest lead midway through the first half, Wofford regained a one-point advantage by halftime and never trailed in the second, leading by as many as 13."

Thank you!

I'm not sure which is more fun - they never had a lead in the second half or if they had snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

devildeac
12-21-2017, 01:08 PM
Where is wheat this morning anyway?

7927

devildeac
12-21-2017, 01:09 PM
My favorite Roy quote.



http://thesportsdaily.com/the-sports-daily/roy-williams-calls-out-tar-heels-players-after-shocking-loss-to-wofford/

Did they get called for any F1s as they intentionally fouled? I'll wager not with the 2 "refs" mentioned above. :mad:

tteettimes
12-21-2017, 01:34 PM
Do you think this means Luke Maye won’t be National Player of the Year? :)



😩😫😫😫😫😩😩😩

CameronBlue
12-21-2017, 01:39 PM
7927

Actually fishing instead of trolling? Nice change.

jimsumner
12-21-2017, 01:48 PM
Terriers are 2 and0 versus the ACC this year.. Also beat Ga. Tech. They have a new arena and a great team.

They also lost to UNC-Asheville by 20 points.

weezie
12-21-2017, 01:50 PM
Man of the match?

FLETCHER MAGEE!

ChillinDuke
12-21-2017, 02:14 PM
Do you think this means Luke Maye won’t be National Player of the Year? :)

Well, he has dropped to 10th on the KenPom list. Which is pleasing. One more drop and he's out of sight. Even more pleasing.

To be fair, KP's top 10 is usually a reasonable starting point for the best players in the land. So Luke Maye honestly is having a great year. That said, I still believe that if Luke Maye is the headliner on this UNC team, they have a problem. This has to be Joel Berry's team, not Luke Maye's.

This is where KP listed the prior 7 NPOYs (Naismith) in his rankings:

2017 - Frank Mason - 6th
2016 - Buddy Hield - 3rd
2015 - Frank Kaminsky - 1st
2014 - Doug McDermott - 3rd
2013 - Trey Burke - 2nd
2012 - Anthony Davis - 4th
2011 - Jimmer Fredette - 3rd

Marvin currently sits at #6.

- Chillin

Rich
12-21-2017, 03:10 PM
Enjoyed this article.
https://deadspin.com/unc-humiliated-at-home-in-loss-to-wofford-1821488757
Highlight was this simple closing line: “It’s the second loss of the season for UNC. Meanwhile, Duke won by 64 points tonight.”
Couldn’t have closed better! Rumor has it the author is up for a Pulitzer Prize.

This sort of explains it...according to http://www.emmabaccellieri.com/, the author of the article (really just a blog) graduated from Duke University in 2016 and grew up in Charlotte, N.C.

Wander
12-21-2017, 03:37 PM
Well, he has dropped to 10th on the KenPom list. Which is pleasing. One more drop and he's out of sight. Even more pleasing.

To be fair, KP's top 10 is usually a reasonable starting point for the best players in the land. So Luke Maye honestly is having a great year. That said, I still believe that if Luke Maye is the headliner on this UNC team, they have a problem. This has to be Joel Berry's team, not Luke Maye's.

This is where KP listed the prior 7 NPOYs (Naismith) in his rankings:

2017 - Frank Mason - 6th
2016 - Buddy Hield - 3rd
2015 - Frank Kaminsky - 1st
2014 - Doug McDermott - 3rd
2013 - Trey Burke - 2nd
2012 - Anthony Davis - 4th
2011 - Jimmer Fredette - 3rd

Marvin currently sits at #6.

- Chillin

Is the NPOY race even going to be remotely competitive this year? Seems like Trae Young will just run away with it.

Troublemaker
12-21-2017, 04:02 PM
Is the NPOY race even going to be remotely competitive this year? Seems like Trae Young will just run away with it.

He's the favorite at this point for sure, but we still have to see how Oklahoma's season goes and just how dominant the best team is.

For example, I'm not sure Young on a 19-11 (9-9 Big12) Oklahoma team wins it if Villanova goes 30-1 (17-1 Big East). (Of course, when it comes to Villanova, the voters would have to figure out who's better between Brunson and Bridges).

Team accomplishment arguably shouldn't matter but I think it still factors in.

Devilwin
12-21-2017, 04:40 PM
Didn't even know the cretins lost til I got to work this morning. Had to get some rest, after we've been real busy at Fedex Ground. Anyway, as I walked in, saw three UNC fans standing and talking with long faces. As I approached them, they all scattered like cockroaches on the kitchen floor when the light goes on..lol..The cowards!

TKG
12-21-2017, 04:47 PM
7928

ipatent
12-21-2017, 08:45 PM
Welcome Wofford to the Pantheon that includes Weber State and a few more. Your apparel will be selling nationwide.

dukelifer
12-21-2017, 09:39 PM
Kenny Smith hearing it from Shaq and Barkley

BD80
12-21-2017, 09:44 PM
He's wasted his whole area if he plans on getting an education over there. They don't take kindly to athletes doing academic work.


Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence.

moonpie23
12-21-2017, 10:57 PM
in the words of a great fill-os-se-fer, "laugh it up, fuzz ball"...


we should only enjoy this a little bit......it's a testament to college BB that these kinds of wins happen.....at any night, someone can get hot, and someone can go cold....


could be us next time...

proelitedota
12-22-2017, 04:41 AM
Well. We don't live or die by the 3 like they do... We play two bigs and play great in transition...

subzero02
12-22-2017, 05:12 AM
Kenny Smith hearing it from Shaq and Barkley

UNC started out 1 - 4 in the 2001 - 2002 season; this record included a loss to Hampton. They beat Binghamton 61 - 60 in their next game. The staff made a tshirt for Kenny Smith to mockingly celebrate the win with the caption "we did it!!!". 8 and 20 UNC helped me to fall in love with insideCarolina.

Troublemaker
12-22-2017, 09:14 AM
in the words of a great fill-os-se-fer, "laugh it up, fuzz ball"...


we should only enjoy this a little bit...it's a testament to college BB that these kinds of wins happen...at any night, someone can get hot, and someone can go cold...

lol, what?!?



could be us next time...

Well. We don't live or die by the 3 like they do... We play two bigs and play great in transition...

UNC doesn't live and die by the three. They rank 323rd in the country in percentage of shots that are threes. (Duke is 292nd by comparison). The Heels have a very good shooting team but they don't make use of that skill as much as they probably should.

As for playing two bigs and being great in transition, those things are still true of UNC. Maye is still a big; he just happens to be a big that can shoot threes. And UNC still runs like crazy. Nor do having those qualities make you foolproof to being upset (although I agree that running and increasing possessions help). Just off the top of my head, the Michigan St team that lost to a 15 seed a couple of years ago played two bigs (and Sparty is generally regarded as being very good in transition, too). I'm sure if I set aside the time, I could provide dozens of examples.

Still, I'm in fundamental agreement that we should enjoy the heck out of UNC losing to Wofford. It's no way to go through life not celebrating events like this just because it could maybe one day happen to Duke, too.

camion
12-22-2017, 09:28 AM
I disagree. The things that have happened to UNC, including last night's loss, are of their own doing. They are not the victims of misfortune.

scha·den·freu·de
ˈSHädənˌfroidə
noun


pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune.



Well then are we talking about Karma? :)

And is there a word for pleasure derived by someone when another person's bad Karma (and a Terrier) bites them in the posterior?

JasonEvans
12-22-2017, 11:34 AM
He's the favorite at this point for sure, but we still have to see how Oklahoma's season goes and just how dominant the best team is.

For example, I'm not sure Young on a 19-11 (9-9 Big12) Oklahoma team wins it if Villanova goes 30-1 (17-1 Big East). (Of course, when it comes to Villanova, the voters would have to figure out who's better between Brunson and Bridges).

Team accomplishment arguably shouldn't matter but I think it still factors in.

I think team accomplishment should matter. The best player should play for one of the best teams. Being great on a team that sucks and does not matter in the national conversation does not mean much to me. Plus, part of greatness is elevating your teammates and achieving team success. The reason Lebron is considered the best player in basketball over the past decade or so is not because of his individual stats or accomplishments, it is because he always seems to lead his teams to the finals.

When was the last time we had a NPOY who was not on a team ranked in the top 20? Doug McDermott's Creighton team and Trey Burke's Michigan clubs were close, but they were in the top 20 pretty much all year and each finished in the top 20 in the AP poll. Someone look at this list (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._men%27s_college_basketball_national_p layer_of_the_year_awards) and find me a guy who won multiple POY awards who did not play on a top 20 club.

-Jason "if Oklahoma starts to lose games and falls out of the top 20, someone else will win POY, even if Trae Young continues to put up gaudy numbers" Evans

Lar77
12-22-2017, 12:04 PM
I think team accomplishment should matter. The best player should play for one of the best teams. Being great on a team that sucks and does not matter in the national conversation does not mean much to me. Plus, part of greatness is elevating your teammates and achieving team success. The reason Lebron is considered the best player in basketball over the past decade or so is not because of his individual stats or accomplishments, it is because he always seems to lead his teams to the finals.

When was the last time we had a NPOY who was not on a team ranked in the top 20? Doug McDermott's Creighton team and Trey Burke's Michigan clubs were close, but they were in the top 20 pretty much all year and each finished in the top 20 in the AP poll. Someone look at this list (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._men%27s_college_basketball_national_p layer_of_the_year_awards) and find me a guy who won multiple POY awards who did not play on a top 20 club.

-Jason "if Oklahoma starts to lose games and falls out of the top 20, someone else will win POY, even if Trae Young continues to put up gaudy numbers" Evans

More surprising, someone voted Pete Maravich over Lew Alcindor? Pistol Pete was a great player, but...

mgtr
12-22-2017, 12:31 PM
In looking over the list, there are some surprises, such as Pete Maravich, as noted. But to me, the real surprise is some of those people who won across the board with no ties. That would include Calbert Cheaney, Kenyon Martin, Evan Turner, and, of course, Jimmer Fredette. Perhaps I live at the bottom of a deep well, but I haven't heard those names in a long, long time. I assume there must be some sad story for each one. If you win every individual honor possible, how can you just disappear?

CDu
12-22-2017, 12:57 PM
In looking over the list, there are some surprises, such as Pete Maravich, as noted. But to me, the real surprise is some of those people who won across the board with no ties. That would include Calbert Cheaney, Kenyon Martin, Evan Turner, and, of course, Jimmer Fredette. Perhaps I live at the bottom of a deep well, but I haven't heard those names in a long, long time. I assume there must be some sad story for each one. If you win every individual honor possible, how can you just disappear?

Martin was a dominant force in his last year of college before breaking his leg. Unfortunately for him, he was undersized for his natural position (center). He still had a long and fairly productive NBA career. Turner has been a solid NBA regular, but just didn't have the athleticism to be an upper-tier SG/SF. He's sort of a better version of Denzel Valentine: great all-around skillset at the college level, not athletic enough to dominate on the wing in the NBA. Cheaney was a solid NBA journeyman too. But to be fair, he probably had no business winning the award. Mashburn (21 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 3.6 apg for a 30-4 Kentucky squad), Glenn Robinson (24.1 ppg, 9.2 rpg) or Webber (19.2 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 2.5 bpg, 1.4 spg for a 31-5 Michigan squad) should probably have won it that year. Cheaney was just the best player on a team that was ranked #1 at the right time. Robinson and Webber probably got dinged for being underclassmen too (both were sophomores), as back then the "tie" often went to the senior.

Fredette's issue was lack of size and athleticism. He was a SG in a PG's body, with insufficient athleticism to play either spot at the NBA level. He's basically an extreme case of Doug McDermott.

All but Cheaney were solid choices for their college honors, but the NBA game is just such a different animal athletically that many a great college player faces a steep decline in the pros.

Kfanarmy
12-22-2017, 01:27 PM
Well. We don't live or die by the 3 like they do... We play two bigs and play great in transition...

FWIW Duke shot like 4M threes against BC..ok, it was only 30, but taking 43% of your shots from three and hitting 26%, they sorta died by the three...

Troublemaker
12-22-2017, 02:29 PM
I think team accomplishment should matter. The best player should play for one of the best teams. Being great on a team that sucks and does not matter in the national conversation does not mean much to me. Plus, part of greatness is elevating your teammates and achieving team success. The reason Lebron is considered the best player in basketball over the past decade or so is not because of his individual stats or accomplishments, it is because he always seems to lead his teams to the finals.

When was the last time we had a NPOY who was not on a team ranked in the top 20? Doug McDermott's Creighton team and Trey Burke's Michigan clubs were close, but they were in the top 20 pretty much all year and each finished in the top 20 in the AP poll. Someone look at this list (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._men%27s_college_basketball_national_p layer_of_the_year_awards) and find me a guy who won multiple POY awards who did not play on a top 20 club.

-Jason "if Oklahoma starts to lose games and falls out of the top 20, someone else will win POY, even if Trae Young continues to put up gaudy numbers" Evans

He IS elevating his teammates, though. Where would OU be without Trae Young? They were 11-20 last season. Sometimes players don't get credit for elevating teammates unless they're on one of the top teams. OU just happens to have had a lower starting point, and you can only elevate them so far.

That said, Young's a freshman carrying an enormous load right now. Let's see what his stamina is like and whether he hits a freshman wall later on.

Troublemaker
12-22-2017, 02:37 PM
FWIW Duke shot like 4M threes against BC..ok, it was only 30, but taking 43% of your shots from three and hitting 26%, they sorta died by the three...

True (among other deficiencies). From that standpoint, every team "live and dies by the 3" to some extent because you're always more vulnerable to a loss on a bad shooting day. And if the other team happens to be scorching hot from 3 on the same day...

weezie
12-22-2017, 02:41 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/SInow/status/943705876321275904/video/1

Not getting old. Would love to have been the kid with the water cooler on his head. Bumpity bump bump.

Troublemaker
12-22-2017, 02:46 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/SInow/status/943705876321275904/video/1

pure joy!

Party like you're WOFFORD


Not getting old. Would love to have been the kid with the water cooler on his head. Bumpity bump bump.

Good to see Miles Plumlee in the Wofford locker room celebrating with them.

MChambers
12-22-2017, 02:54 PM
He IS elevating his teammates, though. Where would OU be without Trae Young? They were 11-20 last season. Sometimes players don't get credit for elevating teammates unless they're on one of the top teams. OU just happens to have had a lower starting point, and you can only elevate them so far.

That said, Young's a freshman carrying an enormous load right now. Let's see what his stamina is like and whether he hits a freshman wall later on.

Rooting for Young to have an off night tonight against Northwestern!

Doria
12-22-2017, 03:03 PM
The best follow on Twitter is @ICMeltdown. All the fun, no need to actually visit the site. Plus the dude is funny.

Very true, though honestly, I love reading the game thread, with the varying emotions of arrogance, anger, consternation, and outrage. It’s like The Iliad of game threads with a happy ending!

Doria
12-22-2017, 03:12 PM
My favorite Roy quote.



http://thesportsdaily.com/the-sports-daily/roy-williams-calls-out-tar-heels-players-after-shocking-loss-to-wofford/

But that’s so confusing! It’s like his natural instinct to throw his kids under the bus got steamrolled late in the shot clock by his even stronger instinct for martyrdom!

(Yeah, let’s not even analyze the mixed metaphors going on there...)

Henderson
12-22-2017, 03:15 PM
Rooting for Young to have an off night tonight against Northwestern!

Well, if Charlie Hall is as good a defender as he is a scorer... yada yada yada.

OldPhiKap
12-22-2017, 03:18 PM
7929


But that’s so confusing! It’s like his natural instinct to throw his kids under the bus got steamrolled late in the shot clock by his even stronger instinct for martyrdom!

(Yeah, let’s not even analyze the mixed metaphors going on there...)

Henderson
12-22-2017, 03:55 PM
7929

In his post-game comments, Joel Berry did the same thing as Ol' Roy: It was my fault; I'm the leader. I just need to get those other guys to stop screwing up.

Spanarkel
12-22-2017, 04:04 PM
Martin was a dominant force in his last year of college before breaking his leg. Unfortunately for him, he was undersized for his natural position (center). He still had a long and fairly productive NBA career. Turner has been a solid NBA regular, but just didn't have the athleticism to be an upper-tier SG/SF. He's sort of a better version of Denzel Valentine: great all-around skillset at the college level, not athletic enough to dominate on the wing in the NBA. Cheaney was a solid NBA journeyman too. But to be fair, he probably had no business winning the award. Mashburn (21 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 3.6 apg for a 30-4 Kentucky squad), Glenn Robinson (24.1 ppg, 9.2 rpg) or Webber (19.2 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 2.5 bpg, 1.4 spg for a 31-5 Michigan squad) should probably have won it that year. Cheaney was just the best player on a team that was ranked #1 at the right time. Robinson and Webber probably got dinged for being underclassmen too (both were sophomores), as back then the "tie" often went to the senior.

Fredette's issue was lack of size and athleticism. He was a SG in a PG's body, with insufficient athleticism to play either spot at the NBA level. He's basically an extreme case of Doug McDermott.

All but Cheaney were solid choices for their college honors, but the NBA game is just such a different animal athletically that many a great college player faces a steep decline in the pros.

27 years after graduating from IU, Cheaney is still the Big Ten All-Time Scoring leader.

Cheaney won all 7 player of the year awards in '93.

Cheany shot 58% from 2, 43% from 3(though not a high volume), and essentially 80% from the FT line. He never shot below 52% overall in his college career. His jump shot was a thing of beauty.

He averaged over 6 boards per game as a small forward in '93, about 2.5 assists/game and had an excellent turnover percentage of ~11%.

He wasn't only an offensive force, as Bob Knight characterized him as a "very adequate defensive player" who had a "Jordan-esque" quality about him.

I'm not sure what else you would ask from a NPOY(no, his team didn't win the national title in his career).

Wander
12-22-2017, 05:29 PM
He IS elevating his teammates, though. Where would OU be without Trae Young? They were 11-20 last season. Sometimes players don't get credit for elevating teammates unless they're on one of the top teams. OU just happens to have had a lower starting point, and you can only elevate them so far.

That said, Young's a freshman carrying an enormous load right now. Let's see what his stamina is like and whether he hits a freshman wall later on.

Yeah, Young is leading the NCAA in points AND assists. He's definitely elevating the team. This isn't a case like Fultz at Washington. Team success should matter a little bit, but IF Young keeps this pace up (which he probably won't), he'll win NPOY as long as Oklahoma doesn't fall so far that they miss the tournament. A top 20 ranking wouldn't be necessary.

CDu
12-22-2017, 07:07 PM
27 years after graduating from IU, Cheaney is still the Big Ten All-Time Scoring leader.

Cheaney won all 7 player of the year awards in '93.

Cheany shot 58% from 2, 43% from 3(though not a high volume), and essentially 80% from the FT line. He never shot below 52% overall in his college career. His jump shot was a thing of beauty.

He averaged over 6 boards per game as a small forward in '93, about 2.5 assists/game and had an excellent turnover percentage of ~11%.

He wasn't only an offensive force, as Bob Knight characterized him as a "very adequate defensive player" who had a "Jordan-esque" quality about him.

I'm not sure what else you would ask from a NPOY(no, his team didn't win the national title in his career).

Cheaney had a wonderful career and a very good senior season. But the award isn’t a lifetime achievement award, so the “all-time leading scorer in the Big Ten” fact is irrelevant. Mashburn, Robinson, and Webber simply had better seasons, and thus were more deserving.

YmoBeThere
12-22-2017, 08:03 PM
Cheaney had a wonderful career and a very good senior season. But the award isn’t a lifetime achievement award, so the “all-time leading scorer in the Big Ten” fact is irrelevant. Mashburn, Robinson, and Webber simply had better seasons, and thus were more deserving.

Interesting that you omit Cheaney's stats for that year, 22.4 pts., 6.4 rpg, 2.4 apg for a 31-4 Indiana team that beat Michigan twice and lost to Kansas (twice) and Kentucky.

I'm curious how that is clearly inferior to the other 3?

CDu
12-22-2017, 08:49 PM
Interesting that you omit Cheaney's stats for that year, 22.4 pts., 6.4 rpg, 2.4 apg for a 31-4 Indiana team that beat Michigan twice and lost to Kansas (twice) and Kentucky.

I'm curious how that is clearly inferior to the other 3?

Cheaney averaged 22.4 pts, 6.4 rebs, 2.4 asts, 0.9 stls, and 0.3 blks, with a 1.0 assist/turnover ratio.

Robinson averaged 24 and 9, 1.8 assists, with 2 steals and 1.2 blocks per game. Worse in assists and a/to ratio, but better everywhere else. So, better overall.

Mashburn logged 21, 8.5, and 3.6, 1.5, and 0.4, with a 1.2 a/to ratio. Comparable in scoring and efficiency, and blocks. But better in rebounding, assists, steals, and a/to ratio. So, again, better.

Webber got 19 (but with better efficiency), 10, 2.5, 1.4, and 2.5, with a .88 a/to ratio. So, better at everything but a/to. So, again, better.

And it isn’t like they were on bad teams. Webber’s team was a top-5 squad. Mashburn’s UK team was slso terrific. Robinson’s team wasn’t quite as good, but still quite solid.

The only debatable one was Robinson, based on team success. But Cheaney was at best third, and I would argue 4th, among those four.

Heck, even Penny Hardaway was better (22.8, 8.5, 6.4, 2.4, 1.2, 6.4/3.4 a/to).

I think he won it in part because they gave him a lifetime achievement award, inpart because Indiana was #1 at the right time, and in part because folks tended not to give the award to underclassmen at that time unless they were WAY better than everyone else.

I don’t mean to disparage Cheaney. He was a terrific college player. But he wasn’t the best player in college bball that year.

Spanarkel
12-23-2017, 06:04 AM
That's one of the great things about sports: we can all have our own opinions about players/teams/coaches, etc. In essence, you're saying that the majority of the voters for the 7 major player of the year awards in 1993--people who coach and write about basketball for a living--somehow forgot the purpose of their awards and gave a "lifetime achievement" award instead.

BD80
12-23-2017, 08:58 AM
That's one of the great things about sports: we can all have our own opinions about players/teams/coaches, etc. In essence, you're saying that the majority of the voters for the 7 major player of the year awards in 1993--people who coach and write about basketball for a living--somehow forgot the purpose of their awards and gave a "lifetime achievement" award instead.

It is fair to suggest that he was a senior rather than an underclassman was a factor ...

Wander
12-23-2017, 09:18 AM
In essence, you're saying that the majority of the voters for the 7 major player of the year awards in 1993--people who coach and write about basketball for a living--somehow forgot the purpose of their awards and gave a "lifetime achievement" award instead.

Not saying anything about this particular case, but, yes, these people sometimes get their awards obviously and hilariously wrong, so there's no need to put them on a pedestal. The most egregious example I can think of off the top of my head is Ndamukong Suh coming in 4th place in the Heisman voting, when he was very obviously the best and most outstanding player in college football that year.

DevilYouKnow
12-23-2017, 09:27 AM
Duke loses to BC. NC State says to Duke, "hold my beer".

NC State loses to UNC-G, Carolina says to State, "hold my beer".

Carolina loses to Wofford, everyone laughs and drinks beer.

Well, Duke has two beers, State has one and UNC has no beer.

It's advanced beer math, people.

devildeac
12-23-2017, 10:14 AM
Well, Duke has two beers, State has one and UNC has no beer.

It's advanced beer math, people.

Yes, indeed. More info here:

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?3840-Ymm-Beer

Wheat/"/"/"
12-23-2017, 01:16 PM
That was an ugly game from UNC, they were just not mentally into it at the start. That's on Roy, and the upperclassmen, they've got to a better job with their focus. I think we'll see better effort today against OSU.

Wofford played well, and smaller shooting teams like that historically give UNC problems.

The main problem I saw was after the starters came out flat and didn't finish plays, the bench came in and looked flat as well. Bench players getting in games should never be flat, they should always have energy. Write it off to the exam week layoff or whatever, but it should never happen. I would hope the younger players learned a big lesson from that game.

To get a win, it turned out, Roy stayed with the bench too long in the 2nd half tying to get them to learn how to come back on their own and they failed to work together enough to get it done.

By the time Roy put the starters back in at the 12 minute mark, down 13 I think it was, they showed they had renewed focus but the mountain was too big to climb with Wofford continuing to play tough. Gotta give them credit for that.

An embarrassing loss for the Heels for sure, but one that they will move on from.

Rich
12-23-2017, 01:55 PM
That was an ugly game from UNC, they were just not mentally into it at the start. That's on Roy, and the upperclassmen, they've got to a better job with their focus. I think we'll see better effort today against OSU.

Wofford played well, and smaller shooting teams like that historically give UNC problems.

The main problem I saw was after the starters came out flat and didn't finish plays, the bench came in and looked flat as well. Bench players getting in games should never be flat, they should always have energy. Write it off to the exam week layoff or whatever, but it should never happen. I would hope the younger players learned a big lesson from that game.

To get a win, it turned out, Roy stayed with the bench too long in the 2nd half tying to get them to learn how to come back on their own and they failed to work together enough to get it done.

By the time Roy put the starters back in at the 12 minute mark, down 13 I think it was, they showed they had renewed focus but the mountain was too big to climb with Wofford continuing to play tough. Gotta give them credit for that.

An embarrassing loss for the Heels for sure, but one that they will move on from.

As long as we all understand that "whatever" doesn't mean studying.

CDu
12-23-2017, 04:04 PM
That's one of the great things about sports: we can all have our own opinions about players/teams/coaches, etc. In essence, you're saying that the majority of the voters for the 7 major player of the year awards in 1993--people who coach and write about basketball for a living--somehow forgot the purpose of their awards and gave a "lifetime achievement" award instead.

Thanks for pigeonholing my point. I think that Cheaney being a senior, well-known star of a famous program was part (not all) of it. Back then, tv coverage was MUCH more limited than it is today. So I absolutely think that voters would commonly fall into groupthink once a narrative developed. Cheaney was a top-tier player, on a top-tier program, and was well-known nationally as a result. So he was undoubtedly on folks’ short list with guys like Hurley going into the year. And he had a good enough year - along with his team playing really well - that he was easily identifiable nationally as a vote-getter.

So, while I don’t think the voters literally made it a lifetime achievement award, I do think it indirectly played out that way. He was a household name (because of career achievements) going in, and had a very good year on a very good team. His cache coming in kind of put him on a frontrunner pedestal, making it harder to knock him out of voters’ minds.

And I do think that voters back then leaned heavily in favor of upperclassmen and seniors especially. Since early entry was fairly rare back then, I think there was a bit of bias against underclassmen. Sort of a “they will get their awards when the time comes,” view on things. That wasn’t a universal view, but a view held widely enough such that underclassmen had to be almost otherworldly to win it. That hurt guys like Robinson, Webber, and Mashburn (a junior, but one who hadn’t been on the national stage but one year thanks to UK’s sanctions).

I also think there was some culture bias at play working against Webber. While the Fab Five was popular among younger demos, I don’t think the old guard in the media cared for them. So I think Webber would have had to play even better to contend, between the culture bias and the fact that he was just a soph.

I think all of these things worked together, combined with being a top-5 or top-10 player, to propel Cheaney to that award. Even though he wasn’t really the best player that year.

Furniture
12-25-2017, 09:22 PM
Didn’t know where to put this but this is a nice story about Joel Berry.

https://theathletic.com/194398/2017/12/25/as-he-comforts-a-grieving-mother-tar-heels-joel-berry-understands-his-calling/

PackMan97
12-25-2017, 10:25 PM
Didn’t know where to put this but this is a nice story about Joel Berry.

https://theathletic.com/194398/2017/12/25/as-he-comforts-a-grieving-mother-tar-heels-joel-berry-understands-his-calling/

Inside Carolina?

In all honesty, current news about ACC players and teams can go in the current This Week in the ACC thread.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
12-25-2017, 11:18 PM
Inside Carolina?

In all honesty, current news about ACC players and teams can go in the current This Week in the ACC thread.

Dude, you are a great member of this community for lots of reasons, but this article deserves no snark.

Thanks for the link. Quite an insight into - by all accounts - a fine young man.

throatybeard
12-26-2017, 07:52 AM
I just like seeing this thread on page one still. Seeing that score is lovely.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
12-26-2017, 09:36 AM
I just like seeing this thread on page one still. Seeing that score is lovely.

Difficult to argue with

BD80
12-26-2017, 09:50 AM
I vote the thread be pinned to the top ...

Of course we can just find excuses to add comments and keep it there ourselves

devildeac
12-26-2017, 10:15 AM
I vote the thread be pinned to the top ...

Of course we can just find excuses to add comments and keep it there ourselves

I'd like some of their opponents to give us more threads like this. :D

weezie
12-26-2017, 10:20 AM
This little light of Wofford's, I'm going to let it shine.

westwall
12-26-2017, 12:53 PM
27 years after graduating from IU, Cheaney is still the Big Ten All-Time Scoring leader.

Cheaney won all 7 player of the year awards in '93.

Cheany shot 58% from 2, 43% from 3(though not a high volume), and essentially 80% from the FT line. He never shot below 52% overall in his college career. His jump shot was a thing of beauty.

He averaged over 6 boards per game as a small forward in '93, about 2.5 assists/game and had an excellent turnover percentage of ~11%.

He wasn't only an offensive force, as Bob Knight characterized him as a "very adequate defensive player" who had a "Jordan-esque" quality about him.

I'm not sure what else you would ask from a NPOY(no, his team didn't win the national title in his career).

Just wandered back into this thread and are left wondering how a Wofford/UNC thread morphed into a Calbert Cheany thread. Don’t ask.??

jimsumner
12-26-2017, 12:57 PM
I've sat in Cameron and watched Duke lose to East Tennessee State, Appalachian State and Wagner. So, I'm not so inclined to gloat here.

Story-telling time.

Back in the olden days, freshmen were not eligible for varsity competition, so we had something called freshman teams. Usually they played before the varsity, about 16 or so games.

Duke's 1971 freshman team had five scholarship players; Dave Elmer, Chris Redding, Ron Righter, Jeff Burdette and a guy from the Pacific Northwest named Sam May, who went home for Christmas and never came back.

Elmer was the best of the group, a 6-9, 215-pound center, mobile, skilled. Averaged around 21 and 11, IIRC. He once scored 40 against Tommy Burleson. I still recall Burleson fouling out against Elmer, getting on his knees and pounding the floor in frustration.

Burleson, Bobby Jones, Tom McMillen and Len Elmore were all freshmen in that class and Elmer looked like he was in that conversation.

Good times.

Duke lost starting posts Randy Denton and Larry Saunders after 1971, so there was playing time available.

Junior Alan Shaw won one of the post spots and it was well-earned. He went on to be second-team All-ACC that year. But Elmer lost the other starting spot to Redding, who was more of a perimeter player.

Elmer did not take it well.

First game of the season, against Richmond. Shaw and Redding started. A few minutes into the game, Bucky Waters turned to Elmer to put him into the game.

Elmer refused to go in. Seriously. Shook his head no, went into the locker room, dressed in his civvies and disappeared into the night.

Apparently he incorrectly thought that he could retain that semester's eligibility of he didn't actually play.

He transferred to Miami of Ohio, where he was a good but not great player.

Fast forward to February 21, 1973. Miami visited Chapel Hill and went home with a stunning 102-92 victory over a Carolina team that included Jones, George Karl and Darrell Elston.

Now, Miami has had some great players of the years, Ron Harper and Wally Sczcerbiak, among them.

Neither of them played in 1973. But this team did make it to the NCAAs, when it was a much smaller tournament.

Elmer had 22 and 10, Jones 21 and 14.

But here's the kicker. Duke won in Chapel Hill in 1966 and in 1985 and none in between. An 18-year losing streak.

So, almost, kinda, maybe, sorta Duke player Dave Elmer had more wins in Chapel Hill then a generation of Duke players.

Wander
12-26-2017, 01:28 PM
I've sat in Cameron and watched Duke lose to East Tennessee State, Appalachian State and Wagner. So, I'm not so inclined to gloat here.

I hear you, but I also don't see the point of being a sports fan if I can't make fun of UNC losing at home to Wofford.

TruBlu
12-26-2017, 01:34 PM
I've sat in Cameron and watched Duke lose to East Tennessee State, Appalachian State and Wagner. So, I'm not so inclined to gloat here.

Jim, I rarely, if ever, disagree with you. But in this case, those Duke losses were a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. The unc loss was recent. Any unc loss is gloatable. Any loss, any time, anywhere.

I now return to my regular schedule of agreeing with Jim.

jimsumner
12-26-2017, 01:36 PM
Jim, I rarely, if ever, disagree with you. But in this case, those Duke losses were a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. The unc loss was recent. Any unc loss is gloatable. Any loss, any time, anywhere.

I now return to my regular schedule of agreeing with Jim.

Are Virginia Commonwealth, Lehigh and Mercer sufficiently recent?

Too soon?

TruBlu
12-26-2017, 01:38 PM
Are Virginia Commonwealth, Lehigh and Mercer sufficiently recent?

Too soon?

I can’t hear you . . . LA, la, la la

uh_no
12-26-2017, 01:42 PM
Are Virginia Commonwealth, Lehigh and Mercer sufficiently recent?

Too soon?

as the son of a lehigh grad whose entire family are lehigh fans, it will always be too soon :(

Olympic Fan
12-26-2017, 02:17 PM
I've sat in Cameron and watched Duke lose to East Tennessee State, Appalachian State and Wagner. So, I'm not so inclined to gloat here.


I would argue that those losses weren't comparable to UNC-Wofford. Oh, App State and Wagner (not East Tennessee) might have been comparable to Wofford, but those Duke teams didn't compare to UNC, ranked No. 5 in the nation, last week.

Duke lost to App State in 1981-82, when Duke was 10-17 ... and lost to Wagner in 1982-83 when Duke was 11-17.

The East Tennessee loss was in 1969 -- I still remember guard Harley Swift, who killed us. And ETSU was pretty good -- a Sweet 16 team in 1968. Duke was a bit better that season (the last for Vic Bubas). In fact, Duke was No. 9 in the nation at the time of the ETSU game. But Duke had already lost two straight games and was about to drop out of the rankings for the rest of the season. Indeed, Duke finished 15-13 -- and only got to a winning season with a three-game win streak late in the season over No. 2 UNC in the Cameron finale, then over Virginia and No. 13 South Carolina in the ACC Tournament. That team almost made the NCAA -- only a heroic effort by Charlie Scott beat Duke in the title game.

All three of the games that Jim mentioned were upsets, but nothing was comparable to Wofford-UNC.

I would say the same of the NCAA games that Jim mentioned -- VCU, Lehigh and Mercer

First, the 2007 Duke team that lost to VCU was no where near as highly ranked as UNC was last week -- 22-10 and a No. 6 seed in the NCAA Tournament. Second, VCU (No. 52 in KenPom that year) was much better than Wofford (196 in the Ken Pom rankings at the time of the game). And third, the game was in Buffalo -- not a home game as was the UNC loss to Wofford.

The Duke teams that lost to Lehigh in 2012 and Mercer in 2014 were comparable to this UNC team. But neither Lehigh nor Mercer were comparable to 196 Wofford. Lehigh was No. 79 in Ken Pom. Mercer was No. 87. Neither game was on Duke's home court (although Greensboro and Raleigh were favorable locations).

Now, I concede that all the games mentioned were upset losses -- but none were near the magnitude of UNC-Wofford. There have been some bad ACC loses over the years -- Grambling (which won at Georgia Tech this season) is MUCH worse than Wofford ... but Georgia Tech is much worse than UNC. The Cheaters lost a home game to Hampton to open the 2001-02 season. But that Cheat team finished 8-20.

In fact, in all ACC history, I can only think of one comparable upset -- No. 1 Virginia's loss to Chaminade in December of 1982. And even that one was on Chaminade's home court.

Realistically, we won't know exactly how bad a loss Wofford was to UNC until the end of the season, when we know how good the two teams really are. But right now, it is a worse upset for the Cheats than anything I can remember for Duke.

So go ahead and gloat.

ncexnyc
12-26-2017, 02:17 PM
Are Virginia Commonwealth, Lehigh and Mercer sufficiently recent?

Too soon?

I can always use the excuse that VCU and Lehigh had two great players, but point taken with Mercer and of course those were all tournament games. :D

So it's always best to keep on a fairly even keel and not go overboard with our enjoyment. The situation is similar to telling a good joke. The first time it's funny. The second time you can even get away with it, but the third time is just boring and in poor taste.

jimsumner
12-26-2017, 02:23 PM
I would argue that those losses weren't comparable to UNC-Wofford. Oh, App State and Wagner (not East Tennessee) might have been comparable to Wofford, but those Duke teams didn't compare to UNC, ranked No. 5 in the nation, last week.

Duke lost to App State in 1981-82, when Duke was 10-17 ... and lost to Wagner in 1982-83 when Duke was 11-17.

The East Tennessee loss was in 1969 -- I still remember guard Harley Swift, who killed us. And ETSU was pretty good -- a Sweet 16 team in 1968. Duke was a bit better that season (the last for Vic Bubas). In fact, Duke was No. 9 in the nation at the time of the ETSU game. But Duke had already lost two straight games and was about to drop out of the rankings for the rest of the season. Indeed, Duke finished 15-13 -- and only got to a winning season with a three-game win streak late in the season over No. 2 UNC in the Cameron finale, then over Virginia and No. 13 South Carolina in the ACC Tournament. That team almost made the NCAA -- only a heroic effort by Charlie Scott beat Duke in the title game.

All three of the games that Jim mentioned were upsets, but nothing was comparable to Wofford-UNC.

I would say the same of the NCAA games that Jim mentioned -- VCU, Lehigh and Mercer

First, the 2007 Duke team that lost to VCU was no where near as highly ranked as UNC was last week -- 22-10 and a No. 6 seed in the NCAA Tournament. Second, VCU (No. 52 in KenPom that year) was much better than Wofford (196 in the Ken Pom rankings at the time of the game). And third, the game was in Buffalo -- not a home game as was the UNC loss to Wofford.

The Duke teams that lost to Lehigh in 2012 and Mercer in 2014 were comparable to this UNC team. But neither Lehigh nor Mercer were comparable to 196 Wofford. Lehigh was No. 79 in Ken Pom. Mercer was No. 87. Neither game was on Duke's home court (although Greensboro and Raleigh were favorable locations).

Now, I concede that all the games mentioned were upset losses -- but none were near the magnitude of UNC-Wofford. There have been some bad ACC loses over the years -- Grambling (which won at Georgia Tech this season) is MUCH worse than Wofford ... but Georgia Tech is much worse than UNC. The Cheaters lost a home game to Hampton to open the 2001-02 season. But that Cheat team finished 8-20.

In fact, in all ACC history, I can only think of one comparable upset -- No. 1 Virginia's loss to Chaminade in December of 1982. And even that one was on Chaminade's home court.

Realistically, we won't know exactly how bad a loss Wofford was to UNC until the end of the season, when we know how good the two teams really are. But right now, it is a worse upset for the Cheats than anything I can remember for Duke.

So go ahead and gloat.

At no point did I suggest those losses were comparable. Just that no program is immune from upsets.

And my preference is to enjoy my teams' wins rather than other teams' losses. Personal quirk, perhaps.

Unless the Cowboys lose. Then, I just gloat. :)

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
12-26-2017, 02:36 PM
I would argue that those losses weren't comparable to UNC-Wofford. Oh, App State and Wagner (not East Tennessee) might have been comparable to Wofford, but those Duke teams didn't compare to UNC, ranked No. 5 in the nation, last week.

Duke lost to App State in 1981-82, when Duke was 10-17 ... and lost to Wagner in 1982-83 when Duke was 11-17.



Hey now, there's still time for this UNC team to lose 17 games.

BD80
12-26-2017, 02:57 PM
I've sat in Cameron and watched Duke lose to East Tennessee State, Appalachian State and Wagner. So, I'm not so inclined to gloat here.


... Duke won in Chapel Hill in 1966 and in 1985 and none in between. An 18-year losing streak. ...


Are Virginia Commonwealth, Lehigh and Mercer sufficiently recent?

...

Dude, that's a wickedly sharp memory ...

In many ways, I prefer mine, I rarely hurt myself or others.

I can also laugh at the same jokes over and over ...

throatybeard
12-27-2017, 06:45 AM
Actually fishing instead of trolling? Nice change.


Just wait until Duke loses one conference game. Then he'll be back on the troll train.

Delmer
12-27-2017, 10:17 AM
I've sat in Cameron and watched Duke lose to East Tennessee State, Appalachian State and Wagner. So, I'm not so inclined to gloat here.

Story-telling time.

Back in the olden days, freshmen were not eligible for varsity competition, so we had something called freshman teams. Usually they played before the varsity, about 16 or so games.

Duke's 1971 freshman team had five scholarship players; Dave Elmer, Chris Redding, Ron Righter, Jeff Burdette and a guy from the Pacific Northwest named Sam May, who went home for Christmas and never came back.

Elmer was the best of the group, a 6-9, 215-pound center, mobile, skilled. Averaged around 21 and 11, IIRC. He once scored 40 against Tommy Burleson. I still recall Burleson fouling out against Elmer, getting on his knees and pounding the floor in frustration.

Burleson, Bobby Jones, Tom McMillen and Len Elmore were all freshmen in that class and Elmer looked like he was in that conversation.

Good times.

Duke lost starting posts Randy Denton and Larry Saunders after 1971, so there was playing time available.

Junior Alan Shaw won one of the post spots and it was well-earned. He went on to be second-team All-ACC that year. But Elmer lost the other starting spot to Redding, who was more of a perimeter player.

Elmer did not take it well.

First game of the season, against Richmond. Shaw and Redding started. A few minutes into the game, Bucky Waters turned to Elmer to put him into the game.

Elmer refused to go in. Seriously. Shook his head no, went into the locker room, dressed in his civvies and disappeared into the night.

Apparently he incorrectly thought that he could retain that semester's eligibility of he didn't actually play.

He transferred to Miami of Ohio, where he was a good but not great player.

Fast forward to February 21, 1973. Miami visited Chapel Hill and went home with a stunning 102-92 victory over a Carolina team that included Jones, George Karl and Darrell Elston.

Now, Miami has had some great players of the years, Ron Harper and Wally Sczcerbiak, among them.

Neither of them played in 1973. But this team did make it to the NCAAs, when it was a much smaller tournament.

Elmer had 22 and 10, Jones 21 and 14.

But here's the kicker. Duke won in Chapel Hill in 1966 and in 1985 and none in between. An 18-year losing streak.

So, almost, kinda, maybe, sorta Duke player Dave Elmer had more wins in Chapel Hill then a generation of Duke players.

Haha- Do I know this guy? Surely I'm related

wobatus
12-27-2017, 10:56 AM
At no point did I suggest those losses were comparable. Just that no program is immune from upsets.

And my preference is to enjoy my teams' wins rather than other teams' losses. Personal quirk, perhaps.

Unless the Cowboys lose. Then, I just gloat. :)

Hard to say how bad this loss is. Wofford is only 5-4 against Division I teams, with 2 ACC scalps.

In 2014 UNC lost to Belmont at home and UAB on the road. Belmont ended up KP 97 and UAB 156. UNC also beat Louisville (which ended up KP #1), Michigan State on the road (at the time number 1 in AP), Kentucky at home (AP # 11 at time), and Duke at home (AP #5 at the time). And although they started 0-3 in the ACC, they ended up 13-5 and in 3rd place. And lost second game of NCAAs to Iowa State. Up and down team with good moments and bad moments.

1977-78 Heels lost @ William and Mary, and on a neutral court to Furman in February. Went 9-3, won ACC regular season. Lost NCAA opening game to San Francisco (Bill Cartwright). Duke won ACC tournament and went to NCAA finals.

1978-79 Heels lost neutral site (Charlotte Coliseum) to Furman, again, tied for 1st in ACC regular season with Duke, won ACC Tournament, lost opening round NCAA game to Penn (which went to the Final 4).

Wofford may be the biggest upset but we will see when the season ends where they rank. Likely doesn't mean much as far as long term potential, although doesn't seem to bode well as far as advancing far in NCAAs. The 2010 team lost on road to College of Charleston. They also lost by 2 @ Kentucky (at the time #5), and to Texas on a neutral court, but in Texas (Texas was ranked second, first game in Cowboy's Stadium), and to unranked Syracuse in the pre-season NIT (Syracuse ended up going 30-5). That team also beat Michigan State and Ohio State. It collapsed in the ACC.

I don't expect a 2010 style collapse mainly because Joel Berry II is the point guard and not Larry Drew II. But you never know. That team had point guard issues, and locker room issues it seemed, then Ed Davis got injured. Injuries or the failure of the young bigs to develop could spell trouble. That team was even ranked 11th after the College of Charleston loss, their last game before the ACC schedule, at which point they were 11-4. Went 5-11 ACC and ended KP 61 and in the NIT (just barely, at 16-16).

Just a little history. Doesn't mean much. The only thing that means all that much is Cameron Jackson, who seems like a decent player but not great, completely destroyed UNC's front line.

Wheat/"/"/"
12-27-2017, 11:59 AM
Just wait until Duke loses one conference game. Then he'll be back on the troll train.

You mean lose another conference game, right?

Sorry, but I couldn't resist that teed up comment from one of my biggest fans.

I do find it funny to see this thread after my attempt to talk UNC hoops here was pretty much shot down by the "we couldn't care less about UNC" crowd.

Many of you obviously care more than you want to admit.

I'm also heartened to see that some of you realize that one of the best things about college basketball is how unpredictable it can be. No one is immune to upset losses in college basketball.

UNC has a good team. Maybe not as strong as the past two years, but still a very good team that will make some noise.

PackMan97
12-27-2017, 12:14 PM
I do find it funny to see this thread after my attempt to talk UNC hoops here was pretty much shot down by the "we couldn't care less about UNC" crowd.

Many of you obviously care more than you want to admit.

Most of us care about fair play, doing the right thing and teaching the athletes that choose to play for our schools... But Tarheel fans would know anything about all that.

You are free to talk about hoops, but realize everyone in the world understands all of you past success was fraudulent and any future success is built on a foundation of cheating that spans three decades.

Dr. Rosenrosen
12-27-2017, 12:57 PM
Many of you obviously care more than you want to admit.

Nah. I think I speak for many when I correct your statement by pointing out that we don’t really CARE about unCheat basketball. But we do ENJOY the heck out of your team losing.

Olympic Fan
12-27-2017, 01:38 PM
And Dean Smith recruited Washburn. Hard. (and Kevin Madden had a lower SAT score than Washburn).

State has had a long history of struggles with academic integrity and cheating, dating back to Everett Case. But the Pack has paid a high price for its crimes.

UNC, which has stuck up its nose and proclaimed the "Carolina Way" as superior to its neighbors, turned out to be a bigger cheater than NC State ever imagined -- and getting away with it through a technicality in the NCAA rules. But Wheat, before you start taunting Pack Man about State's "proven" cheating, you need to acknowledge that UNC's long scam is proven -- UNC admitted it to its accrediting agency ... Bubba Cunningham admitted it on air to CBS.

UNC cheated worse than State ever did (and the NCAA never looked at things like the Wheels for Heels program or the Tammy Hansbrough scandal).

So does UNC deserve to be scolded by an NC State fan? Hell, yes.

And if you want another source, consider this Duke fan as endorsing everything Pack Man said.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
12-27-2017, 01:47 PM
Hey friends -

Time to change topics away from UNC/scandal kvetching. The last thing any of us want is to have this glorious thread shut down, so let's get back on message.

Anyone know how many TOs Roy had at the final buzzer when UNC lost to Wofford at home? Asking for a friend.

jv001
12-27-2017, 03:44 PM
And Dean Smith recruited Washburn. Hard. (and Kevin Madden had a lower SAT score than Washburn).

State has had a long history of struggles with academic integrity and cheating, dating back to Everett Case. But the Pack has paid a high price for its crimes.

UNC, which has stuck up its nose and proclaimed the "Carolina Way" as superior to its neighbors, turned out to be a bigger cheater than NC State ever imagined -- and getting away with it through a technicality in the NCAA rules. But Wheat, before you start taunting Pack Man about State's "proven" cheating, you need to acknowledge that UNC's long scam is proven -- UNC admitted it to its accrediting agency ... Bubba Cunningham admitted it on air to CBS.

UNC cheated worse than State ever did (and the NCAA never looked at things like the Wheels for Heels program or the Tammy Hansbrough scandal).

So does UNC deserve to be scolded by an NC State fan? Hell, yes.

And if you want another source, consider this Duke fan as endorsing everything Pack Man said.

Tried to give you sporks but must spread more around. You speak the truth my Duke friend. GoDuke!

OldPhiKap
12-27-2017, 06:28 PM
And Dean Smith recruited Washburn. Hard. (and Kevin Madden had a lower SAT score than Washburn).

State has had a long history of struggles with academic integrity and cheating, dating back to Everett Case. But the Pack has paid a high price for its crimes.

UNC, which has stuck up its nose and proclaimed the "Carolina Way" as superior to its neighbors, turned out to be a bigger cheater than NC State ever imagined -- and getting away with it through a technicality in the NCAA rules. But Wheat, before you start taunting Pack Man about State's "proven" cheating, you need to acknowledge that UNC's long scam is proven -- UNC admitted it to its accrediting agency ... Bubba Cunningham admitted it on air to CBS.

UNC cheated worse than State ever did (and the NCAA never looked at things like the Wheels for Heels program or the Tammy Hansbrough scandal).

So does UNC deserve to be scolded by an NC State fan? Hell, yes.

And if you want another source, consider this Duke fan as endorsing everything Pack Man said.

Yup, and the bolded particularly. Takes real cajones for a fan of the Bastards to come here and lecture another fan base about a school’s character or a team’s moral superiority.

UrinalCake
12-27-2017, 10:31 PM
So here's an actual basketball question for our friend Wheat... from talking to my UNC acquaintances and also perusing IC, my feeling is that fans are unhappy with Roy's tendency to
- experiment with unusual lineups
- pull guys out of the game who are playing well and then give minutes to bench guys who aren't as good
- use the less talented bench players too much, rather than tightening the lineup

It's always fascinating to hear these complaints, because Duke fans of course complain that K doesn't use his bench enough, that he rides his starters for too long causing fatigue late in the game, that our defense suffers, and that the bench players don't get enough minutes and therefore transfer.

Anyways, how much do you think the lineup changes contributed to the loss? Should Roy have stuck with a tighter rotation even this early in the season and against a presumed weaker opponent at home? Or do you trust in his system which allows guys like Luke Maye to get minutes even as an overwhelmed freshman with more talented guys ahead of him, ultimately giving him the confidence to contribute later in the season?

devildeac
12-27-2017, 11:03 PM
So here's an actual basketball question for our friend Wheat... from talking to my UNC acquaintances and also perusing IC, my feeling is that fans are unhappy with Roy's tendency to
- experiment with unusual lineups
- pull guys out of the game who are playing well and then give minutes to bench guys who aren't as good
- use the less talented bench players too much, rather than tightening the lineup

It's always fascinating to hear these complaints, because Duke fans of course complain that K doesn't use his bench enough, that he rides his starters for too long causing fatigue late in the game, that our defense suffers, and that the bench players don't get enough minutes and therefore transfer.

Anyways, how much do you think the lineup changes contributed to the loss? Should Roy have stuck with a tighter rotation even this early in the season and against a presumed weaker opponent at home? Or do you trust in his system which allows guys like Luke Maye to get minutes even as an overwhelmed freshman with more talented guys ahead of him, ultimately giving him the confidence to contribute later in the season?

"I don't give a shi(r)t about c*rolina."

Unless, of course they're losing. As often as possible.

(No offense to Urinal Cake.)

JBDuke
12-27-2017, 11:10 PM
This thread has devolved into the same sort of hate-spewing dialog unrelated to the actual Carolina loss that inspired the original post. Time to shut it down.