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View Full Version : is derryck thornton injured?



dukeinla
12-18-2017, 09:02 AM
he hasn't played a minute in USC's last four games but I can't find the reason. Does anyone know?

UrinalCake
12-18-2017, 09:04 AM
I heard a couple weeks ago he had an injury and was supposed to be out a few weeks. Prior to that he was only averaging 15 or so minutes a game.

rocketeli
12-18-2017, 09:23 AM
he was averaging 15.4 mins 3.6 points, 2.0 rebounds, and unfortunately shooting about .300 overall. It appears he was one of the first off their rather short bench, prior to injury. I don't know what the thoughts and wishes of the young man himself were, but that transfer seemed to me to be driven in part by intrusive family members who knew much less about basketball than they thought they did. Hope they're happy with the results, but that doesn't always lead to good outcomes.

Furniture
12-18-2017, 10:06 AM
He is nowhere to be seen on 2018 draft boards. I think that if he has stayed at Duke he may well have been.

sagegrouse
12-18-2017, 10:10 AM
He is nowhere to be seen on 2018 draft boards. I think that if he has stayed at Duke he may well have been.

If he had stayed at Duke, he might now be in the NBA.

jimsumner
12-18-2017, 10:21 AM
If he had stayed at Duke, he might now be in the NBA.

How so? Had he stayed at Duke, he would have had to share perimeter minutes last season with Luke Kennard, Grayson Allen, Frank Jackson and Matt Jones. Hard to see how he would have gotten enough minutes to get to the NBA.

And his continued presence at Duke likely precludes Duke getting Trevon Duval. I'd rather have Duval than Thornton.

TKG
12-18-2017, 10:21 AM
His uncle must be royally pissed at USC.

UrinalCake
12-18-2017, 10:35 AM
The story I heard is that Thornton was told when he was recruited that we would run a lot of pick and roll with him having the ball in his hands, but then after Amile got hurt K had to completely restructure the offense and instead call for more isolation play by Grayson and Ingram. Derryckís father or uncle or whoever else makes up his entourage/handlers were upset that he wasnít getting the ball enough.

I wish he had stayed. I donít think he had very good point guard skills and I donít think he would have played a major role on last yearís team, but he had a lot of good tools and was a great defender so I think we would have found a role for him. I remember watching him in some early practices and Matt Jones was just destroying him on both ends; he clearly wasnít ready for this level especially after coming early. Iíll always remember his block on Berry to seal that win in CH when we played with five guys.

jimsumner
12-18-2017, 10:43 AM
That was the story circulated by the Thornton camp. I doubt its veracity. Thornton was a late re-class after Tyus Jones went pro. He was considered a pure pass-first point guard. I can't for the life of me imagine why Duke would tell him otherwise.


Not Mike Krzyzewski's style.

OldPhiKap
12-18-2017, 10:51 AM
I continue to wish him well. He has to run his own race.

CDu
12-18-2017, 11:10 AM
That was the story circulated by the Thornton camp. I doubt its veracity. Thornton was a late re-class after Tyus Jones went pro. He was considered a pure pass-first point guard. I can't for the life of me imagine why Duke would tell him otherwise.


Not Mike Krzyzewski's style.

The bolded seems odd as that never appeared to be his strengths, either in scouting reports or highlight video (for whatever that's worth). His skill set seemed more in his ability to attack the rim. His game always seemed more like Irving's than, say, a Tyus Jones (or insert your name of pass-first PG here). [note: not saying Thornton is anywhere near Irving in talent, just stylistically similar]

If the staff envisioned Thornton as a pass-first PG, that seems like a pretty big misevaluation.

jimsumner
12-18-2017, 11:16 AM
The bolded seems odd as that never appeared to be his strengths, either in scouting reports or highlight video (for whatever that's worth). His skill set seemed more in his ability to attack the rim. His game always seemed more like Irving's than, say, a Tyus Jones (or insert your name of pass-first PG here). [note: not saying Thornton is anywhere near Irving in talent, just stylistically similar]

If the staff envisioned Thornton as a pass-first PG, that seems like a pretty big misevaluation.

Square peg, round hole, perhaps. And Thornton certainly could defend point guards, much better defender as a freshman than either Jackson or Duval.

But I never, ever, at any time heard any suggestion that Duke expected Thornton to be a primary scoring option on a team that included Allen, Ingram, Kennard and Jones. Defense and play-making were his jobs.

Owen Meany
12-18-2017, 12:38 PM
That was the story circulated by the Thornton camp. I doubt its veracity. Thornton was a late re-class after Tyus Jones went pro. He was considered a pure pass-first point guard. I can't for the life of me imagine why Duke would tell him otherwise.


Not Mike Krzyzewski's style.

Thornton's camp certainly did have a lot to say after he left. In fairness, I believe his "uncle" may have been responsible for 100% of the comments made, at least publicly - but its hard to imagine the "uncle" would have said so much over an extended period without the approval of the father. Other than the fact that he was attacking perhaps the most powerful man in college basketball, one particular comment illustrated to me the ridiculousness of the uncle's complaints, the decision to transfer, etc. He specifically compared Derryck Jrs. PNR usage to that of Kris Dunn to show how Thornton had been misused. Dunn was a red-shirt Junior, All-American, who surprised many by returning for his final year. He was drafted 5th that year. Its incomprehensible that anyone would even suggest that Thornton's usage should compare to Dunn's.


The uncle also claimed that Coach K had begged Thornton to come early. Forget that, through the years, there is no version of Coach K that begs a kid to come to Duke - even more so at the height of his success fresh off of NCAA title, Olympic success, etc. The uncle was evidently unaware that Tank Thornton did a nice piece (with the N&O, I believe) where he detailed the recruitment process for his son. He specifically stated, unequivocally, that Coach K said he would be very glad to have Thornton either as a reclass, or the next year - the decision was his.


Its important to note that Derryck Jr. has never, to my knowledge, spoken ill of Duke or his time there. In fact, he did attend the banquet even after the unpleasantness of his uncle's twitter barrage. I wish the young man good luck and health. He was ill-served by those around him. He received plenty of playing time his Freshman year and would have inherited a loaded team the next. I imagine he could regret his (or perhaps his family's) decision as time passes.

gam7
12-18-2017, 01:07 PM
I heard a couple weeks ago he had an injury and was supposed to be out a few weeks. Prior to that he was only averaging 15 or so minutes a game.

Dislocated shoulder in early December. Expected to be out 3-4 weeks total though shoulders can tricky (e.g., Fultz, Draymond, Luck).

sagegrouse
12-18-2017, 01:12 PM
How so? Had he stayed at Duke, he would have had to share perimeter minutes last season with Luke Kennard, Grayson Allen, Frank Jackson and Matt Jones. Hard to see how he would have gotten enough minutes to get to the NBA.

And his continued presence at Duke likely precludes Duke getting Trevon Duval. I'd rather have Duval than Thornton.

Maybe not Frank Jackson -- didn't he he come only because Derryck left?

flyingdutchdevil
12-18-2017, 01:19 PM
Maybe not Frank Jackson -- didn't he he come only because Derryck left?

Not unless Jackson had some insider information really early in the process. Jackson committed Sep '15; Thornton announced his transfer in Apr '16.

You may be mistaking Duval and Jackson.

sagegrouse
12-18-2017, 01:23 PM
Not unless Jackson had some insider information really early in the process. Jackson committed Sep '15; Thornton announced his transfer in Apr '16.

You may be mistaking Duval and Jackson.

Ahhh! Thanks for the correction.

miramar
12-19-2017, 08:00 AM
Thornton's camp certainly did have a lot to say after he left. In fairness, I believe his "uncle" may have been responsible for 100% of the comments made, at least publicly - but its hard to imagine the "uncle" would have said so much over an extended period without the approval of the father. Other than the fact that he was attacking perhaps the most powerful man in college basketball, one particular comment illustrated to me the ridiculousness of the uncle's complaints, the decision to transfer, etc. He specifically compared Derryck Jrs. PNR usage to that of Kris Dunn to show how Thornton had been misused. Dunn was a red-shirt Junior, All-American, who surprised many by returning for his final year. He was drafted 5th that year. Its incomprehensible that anyone would even suggest that Thornton's usage should compare to Dunn's.

Uncle Trainer was even worse than Chris Burgess's dad when it comes to career advice.

No matter what, it seems that Duke players and recruits should avoid LA at all costs. (The other) Tony Parker was thought to be a lock for Duke, but ended up at UCLA, apparently because Duke doesn't prepare big men for the NBA. Parker is now playing in the G-League for the Iowa Wolves along with...Amile Jefferson!

Amile is averaging 16.5 PPG and Parker only 3.3. Considering that Parker has had problems with conditioning and injuries, the last thing he needed was all that recruitment drama and the soap opera announcement. I hope that Amile can provide a proper example for him and that he can finally achieve his dream of playing in the NBA.

superdave
12-19-2017, 08:06 AM
I really need to get more involved in the lives of my nephews. I have no idea how they get out of bed in the AM without me!

AtlDuke72
12-19-2017, 08:58 AM
If he had stayed at Duke, he might now be in the NBA.

I never saw that in him. My thinking is that if he was still at Duke he would be planted on the bench.

SkyBrickey
12-19-2017, 12:10 PM
Very surprised he wasn't getting more minutes at USC before his injury. He had lots of talent and potential in a pure point guard package. I always felt like he could've been the missing piece on last year's team, providing solid - but not spectacular - PG play on both ends of the court.

kAzE
12-19-2017, 01:14 PM
I'm a fan of DT, and I'm also of the opinion that he would have really helped last year's team. I don't believe Derryck wanted to leave Duke, but left anyways due to the wishes of his family. I hope they regret their decision now. Usually when you transfer away from Duke, you do it to play more, not less. Going from starter at Duke to bench warmer at USC is probably not what Tank had in mind.

Still rooting for this kid, despite everything. He is really talented. I'm as surprised as anyone that he couldn't secure a spot in the starting lineup at USC.

And for those of you who are hating on him, recall that he gave up his senior year of high school to accommodate our lack of guard depth in 2015-16, and was pretty good as an 18 year old playing in the ACC. We don't beat UNC at UNC without DT that year.

It's like a microcosm of the Ball family. Don't hate the kid, hate the blowhard family members.

gam7
12-19-2017, 01:24 PM
I'm a fan of DT, and I'm also of the opinion that he would have really helped last year's team.

I wasn't a huge fan of DT, but I share your opinion that he would've helped last year's team.

elvis14
12-20-2017, 08:38 AM
I'm a fan of DT, and I'm also of the opinion that he would have really helped last year's team.

I'm with kAzE on this one. I liked DT as a freshman and thought he was set up to have a great sophomore season. I was so mad when he transferred that I have to admit, I'm done with him and although I don't want anything bad to happen to him I'm not rooting for him to do well and it's not breaking my heart to see him ride the pine. I know that makes me look worse than him but sometimes you can't help how you feel. He was easily one of the main missing pieces last year (along with the health of the team). I think DT would have progressed into a very good PG for Duke and he would have provided some badly needed defense last year.

I hope he gets healthy. He'll be a good reminder to others that it's better to be patient with K than to transfer to a lesser program and limit your growth as a player.

flyingdutchdevil
12-20-2017, 08:39 AM
I'm with kAzE on this one. I liked DT as a freshman and thought he was set up to have a great sophomore season. I was so mad when he transferred that I have to admit, I'm done with him and although I don't want anything bad to happen to him I'm not rooting for him to do well and it's not breaking my heart to see him ride the pine. I know that makes me look worse than him but sometimes you can't help how you feel. He was easily one of the main missing pieces last year (along with the health of the team). I think DT would have progressed into a very good PG for Duke and he would have provided some badly needed defense last year.

I hope he gets healthy. He'll be a good reminder to others that it's better to be patient with K than to transfer to a lesser program and limit your growth as a player.

I can assure you you're not the only one who shares this mentality. I had the same reaction with Elliot Williams.

MCFinARL
12-20-2017, 11:29 AM
I can assure you you're not the only one who shares this mentality. I had the same reaction with Elliot Williams.

Didn't Elliot Williams have some sort of personal factor, though--a sick mother that he wanted to be closer to? While that might not have been the only reason for the transfer, it would certainly alter the calculation about staying or going.

kAzE
12-20-2017, 11:48 AM
Didn't Elliot Williams have some sort of personal factor, though--a sick mother that he wanted to be closer to? While that might not have been the only reason for the transfer, it would certainly alter the calculation about staying or going.

And you certainly can't argue with the results of the season after he departed (2010).

sagegrouse
12-20-2017, 11:48 AM
Didn't Elliot Williams have some sort of personal factor, though--a sick mother that he wanted to be closer to? While that might not have been the only reason for the transfer, it would certainly alter the calculation about staying or going.

I believe it was a grandmother -- and Duke supported that as a rationale for Elliott's transfer. As for me, I didn't believe it for one minute. The relative did not even live in Memphis -- or close to it.

And didn't Elliot's transfer ruin our 2010 season?

flyingdutchdevil
12-20-2017, 12:03 PM
I believe it was a grandmother -- and Duke supported that as a rationale for Elliott's transfer. As for me, I didn't believe it for one minute. The relative did not even live in Memphis -- or close to it.

And didn't Elliot's transfer ruin our 2010 season?

With Williams, imagine what we could have done that year.

kAzE
12-20-2017, 12:08 PM
With Williams, imagine what we could have done that year.

In all likelihood, probably not win the national championship. Basketball is such a weird game, and team chemistry can drastically affect how things play out. The team we had that year was the right group of guys at the right time.

flyingdutchdevil
12-20-2017, 12:09 PM
In all likelihood, probably not win the national championship. Basketball is such a weird game, and team chemistry can drastically affect how things play out. The team we had that year was the right group of guys at the right time.

I'm being facetious. The 2010 team will, in my opinion, go down as the greatest example of how the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

cato
12-20-2017, 12:19 PM
I believe it was a grandmother -- and Duke supported that as a rationale for Elliott's transfer. As for me, I didn't believe it for one minute. The relative did not even live in Memphis -- or close to it.

And didn't Elliot's transfer ruin our 2010 season?

I feel that there should be a sticky for this, but there isnít, so I will keep setting the record straight: it was his mom, and she had cancer. Luckily, she recovered and Elliot Williams had a few more years with her. Sadly, the cancer returned and she died while her son was still a young man.

Out of respect for Williams and his family, I think we can just leave this one alone and wish Elliot nothing but success.

JasonEvans
12-20-2017, 12:22 PM
I liked DT as a freshman and thought he was set up to have a great sophomore season. I was so mad when he transferred

Can you imagine if DT had stayed here and was struggling with performance and playing time the way he is right now at USC? I'm betting his uncle (and perhaps other family members) would be going ballistic. To some extent, when he transferred it absolved Duke of any responsibility for Derryk's career development (or lack thereof).

kAzE
12-20-2017, 12:39 PM
Can you imagine if DT had stayed here and was struggling with performance and playing time the way he is right now at USC? I'm betting his uncle (and perhaps other family members) would be going ballistic. To some extent, when he transferred it absolved Duke of any responsibility for Derryk's career development (or lack thereof).

Derryck's uncle still talks a lot of garbage about Duke. I bet he's already starting to become a malcontent with USC now as well . . .

jv001
12-20-2017, 12:41 PM
Derryck's uncle still talks a lot of garbage about Duke. I bet he's already starting to become a malcontent with USC now as well . . .

Is the uncle's first name, LaVar? :cool: GoDuke!

kAzE
12-20-2017, 12:44 PM
This article seems like it was from an alternate universe . . .

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2594400-dukes-derryck-thornton-finding-little-time-for-growing-pains-under-coach-k

It's easy to forget that Derryck did show a lot of promise early on.


Is the uncle's first name, LaVar? :cool: GoDuke!

His name is Mark Edwards, but he sure sounds like LaVar: http://kentuckysportsradio.com/basketball-2/derryck-thorntons-uncle-voices-opinions-on-duke/

buddy
12-20-2017, 01:57 PM
I'm being facetious. The 2010 team will, in my opinion, go down as the greatest example of how the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Don't forget that G left for the NBA before that year, or we could have had both G and Williams. Still did alright. I agree that it was a classic whole is greater than the sum of the parts. We had a TEAM that year, as in "there is no i in team". It was a wonderful ride.

UrinalCake
12-20-2017, 02:03 PM
^ Olek Czyz also transfered away the previous fall, and we failed to land John Wall. And the CHeats had just won the title (their second in five years), were bringing in a very highly-rated class, and got a commitment from Harrison Barnes that fall. We hadnít made the final four in five years and there was legitimate talk that K should think about retiring and pursing his National Team interests which were detracting from his ability to coach Duke. It sure looked like the sky was falling.

We didnít know it at the time but the CHeats were at the peak of their cheating then. So maybe 2010 was karma for them, losing in the NIT finals and enduring the 82-50 beatdown despite having a talented roster.

killerleft
12-20-2017, 02:04 PM
This article seems like it was from an alternate universe . . .

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2594400-dukes-derryck-thornton-finding-little-time-for-growing-pains-under-coach-k

It's easy to forget that Derryck did show a lot of promise early on.



His name is Mark Edwards, but he sure sounds like LaVar: http://kentuckysportsradio.com/basketball-2/derryck-thorntons-uncle-voices-opinions-on-duke/

I think Thornton would have been a very valuable player at Duke had he stayed. Especially this year.

English
12-20-2017, 02:11 PM
I think Thornton would have been a very valuable player at Duke had he stayed. Especially this year.

We are certainly thin in the backcourt this season, but I cannot fathom Duke getting Trevon Duval to commit with a junior Derryck already on the roster. Odds are we'd be equally thin, only with Thornton instead of Duval. YMMV on how Duval has run the team this season, but from my armchair, he's been fantastic for a freshman PG and way-above-average for a PG at large. I'm not at all confident Thornton gives us anything Duval doesn't, even after three years in the program. On-ball defense, maybe, but certainly not a guarantee. I'd argue that Duval's talent surplus outweighs the experience Thornton would bring.

I'd suggest Thornton would've been much more important to last season's team...although he somehow would've managed to stub his toe and miss 3-4wks.