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construe
12-05-2017, 02:47 PM
Long term lurker, infrequent poster, don’t think I’ve ever started a thread before…so if there’s already a discussion for this, feel free to move it. Also, apologies for the long post.

iirc, last year Troublemaker had a series of great posts (with animated gifs!) on the different offensive schemes Duke tried out over the season. I’d love to have a place to discuss schemes again this season. I’m not nearly as knowledgeable or talented as TM, so instead, I’ll just post the following thoughts & questions and see what we can get started.

During the Texas game in the 2nd half when we were clawing our way back, many noted that Duval sat while Grayson took over PG duties. I noticed a play Duke ran several times where someone (MB3?) screened for GA near the foul line / key, GA drove left, then tried to pass off to MB3 posting up, or, if that wasn’t available, took a mid-range shot or pass to a 3-pt shooter. Duke ran this play several possessions in a row and it seemed to really help with the comeback.

Is there a name for this set?

Then in the Florida game, again in the 2nd half with Duke down a lot, GA took over PG duties (hmmm...coincidence?). This time they ran something similar (Duke was on the other side of the court …camera left…so it’s hard to keep it straight), but it seemed that someone else screened for Grayson, then he would try to find MB posting up.

It worked pretty well, either getting it to MB or GA taking a 3 etc, but once they ran it a few times, Fla picked up on it and then hedged really far out on the initial screen, forcing GA past the key. GA had to scramble to get off a really tough fade away and sunk it (big bucket…could’ve really been an issue if Duke had turned it over then).

This set looks a teensy bit like the ‘horns’ set I remember Troublemaker introducing us to last year, but I don't think MB set up high enough near the foul line.

Then at Indiana, Duke seemed to go to straight horns with either MB or Wendell on the high post. In the past couple of years, I remember this set being run a -lot- with Amile (and Chase). I don't see it so much this year, given that both Bagley and Carter are such good post players, it's a waste of their talents to just have them act as quarterbacks handing off the ball on the high post (a la Amile...though later he sometimes took his man off the dribble.)

Regarding older sets, I also see GA running off screens along the baseline, and I assume it’s either Trent or AOC going the other way. Is that this year's version of ‘floppy’? Unlike when Luke ran it, however, they don’t curl back into the lane at the end, but run out to the 3pt line in the corner. (Luke really was the ideal person for that set, with his magician-like mid-range moves.)

Troublemaker, got any time to post gifs of these sets I'm asking about? :)

Go Duke!

BandAlum83
12-05-2017, 03:13 PM
Great thread idea!

After this week's Podcast where Jason mentioned that the GA / MBIII combo had the best two man game in CBB, I'd love a primer on that with gifs...

Truth&Justise
12-05-2017, 03:43 PM
My favorite set this year is something we ran a few times down the stretch against Indiana: Grayson setting a back-pick for Bagley on the left wing. Obviously this could free Bagley for an easy cut to the basket, but Indiana usually covered that. However, it still allowed Grayson to then pop out to the wing and get a catch in rhythm. From there, depending on how the defense reacted, he could shoot, look inside for Bagley, or try to drive. Most often it resulted in Bagley getting the ball on the block in a great position, and Grayson's man being too afraid to dig down and help.

A simple set, but it worked wonderfully.

construe
12-05-2017, 05:40 PM
Grayson setting a back-pick for Bagley on the left wing.

Yes! That's what I was forgetting from the Indiana game: a new wrinkle on the Grayson-Marvin 2-man game. Against Texas, I got the impression that the staff was experimenting on the fly in the 2nd half with Trevon out. If so, that's pretty good coaching. Wonder if they decided that GA/MB combo is one to further explore after that...

Troublemaker
12-06-2017, 12:31 PM
Thanks for the kind words, construe!

I mostly won't be creating GIFs this season, as my life circumstances have me busier than last season. If someone wants to take up the mantle, I wrote a guide on how to make GIFs here (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?39108-How-to-Make-GIFs). While GFYCat changes its layout every now and then, I'm confident most people here can use my instructions to make GIFs if they have time and desire to do so.

But I can comment broadly. You have it right, construe. We're still running horns and floppy but a little bit less than last season. Additionally we are trying to get early duck-ins for our post players in transition, and if those aren't available, we will try to make a post feed in halfcourt offense. Sometimes we accomplish that with high-low, sometimes the guards pass it around until the angle is available while the two bigs post up, and sometimes we feed them through the flow of running floppy and horns; specifically when a shooter like Grayson catches the ball out of floppy, he can usually turn and feed the post pretty easily.

I don't remember the specifics of Florida and Indiana, but I DO remember what you are talking about with the Texas game. In that game we repeatedly used Marvin to set a high ball-screen for Grayson to drive left while Marvin rolled (i.e. we ran pick-and-roll), and Duke was able to score in every single way out of it. Grayson drove and dished. Grayson hit the roller Marvin who in turn passed to Wendell along the backline for a dunk, similar to how the Clippers used to ping-pass from Paul to Griffin to DeAndre for a dunk. Grayson waited for Bamba to cheat over to the rolling Marvin and hit Wendell with a long pass for another dunk. And Grayson pulled up for a jumper. Texas was basically unable to stop this play.

ChillinDuke
12-06-2017, 01:18 PM
<snip>

But I can comment broadly. You have it right, construe. We're still running horns and floppy but a little bit less than last season. Additionally we are trying to get early duck-ins for our post players in transition, and if those aren't available, we will try to make a post feed in halfcourt offense. Sometimes we accomplish that with high-low, sometimes the guards pass it around until the angle is available while the two bigs post up, and sometimes we feed them through the flow of running floppy and horns; specifically when a shooter like Grayson catches the ball out of floppy, he can usually turn and feed the post pretty easily.

<snip>

I'm no Troublemaker, in terms of X's and O's.

But I can follow directions.

And particularly on the bolded, the below GIF was one of my favorite plays of the Texas game. What we have here is a fairly routine defensive rebound off a missed three. In this case it's grabbed by Gary Trent, more or less a guard, and K is often asking this team to push transition on rebounds by our guards. So Gary does just that. Look at how beautifully Duke fills the break with four guys evenly spread across the court (from left to right: Tre, Gary (ball), MB III, and AOC). AOC is out in front a bit and runs right side, curling all the way around the baseline to fill the strong-side corner. MB III gets right to the block on the strong-side and starts posting his man in transition. Exactly as Troublemaker mentioned, Gary recognizes the triangle they've created and looks for an early duck-in to MB III. Bamba (defending) got high on Marvin's hip, so Gary swings the ball into the corner to AOC who has a much better angle for a post feed. AOC instantly leads Marvin baseline with a beautiful pass. Bamba realizes he is beat by great post positioning by Marvin, reaches for a steal (his last hope), but alas. Dunk City.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/VainElegantAfricanpiedkingfisher-size_restricted.gif


High-Res Link (maybe?) (https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/VainElegantAfricanpiedkingfisher)



- Chillin

BandAlum83
12-06-2017, 01:30 PM
Last night there was a transition led by Duval that ended with a dunk (pretty sure I was a dunk and not a lay-in) by Carter. I thought at the time that even though it resulted in the basket, I thought we got lucky because the spacing was absolutely terrible. The pass from Duval to Carter was almost a hand off.

I don't know who else was on that break, but maybe there were bench players who messed up.

Can anyone else remember this play and perhaps explain what / who went wrong, or am I analyzing incorrectly?

kAzE
12-06-2017, 01:39 PM
Last night there was a transition led by Duval that ended with a dunk (pretty sure I was a dunk and not a lay-in) by Carter. I thought at the time that even though it resulted in the basket, I thought we got lucky because the spacing was absolutely terrible. The pass from Duval to Carter was almost a hand off.

I don't know who else was on that break, but maybe there were bench players who messed up.

Can anyone else remember this play and perhaps explain what / who went wrong, or am I analyzing incorrectly?

I remember the play you are talking about. My memory's fuzzy, but I think it was a 3 on 2 with Trevon handling the rock. both Wendell and the other big running in transition both ran too far towards the middle of the floor and both went straight to the rim, leading to an awkward cluster of players in the paint by the time Trevon got there, and he had to do an awkward handoff to Wendell that still resulted in a bucket, but it was a much more difficult look than it needed to be. Both Carter and the other big should have been wider on the lanes, even if the paint was ultimately their final destination.

I can't remember who the guy running the other lane was, but if it was Javin or Marques, I don't know if there's much they could have done in terms of pulling their defender out of the paint. A Marques Bolden jump shot is probably what every team would prefer happen at the end of our fast breaks.

ChillinDuke
12-06-2017, 02:52 PM
I remember the play you are talking about. My memory's fuzzy, but I think it was a 3 on 2 with Trevon handling the rock. both Wendell and the other big running in transition both ran too far towards the middle of the floor and both went straight to the rim, leading to an awkward cluster of players in the paint by the time Trevon got there, and he had to do an awkward handoff to Wendell that still resulted in a bucket, but it was a much more difficult look than it needed to be. Both Carter and the other big should have been wider on the lanes, even if the paint was ultimately their final destination.

I can't remember who the guy running the other lane was, but if it was Javin or Marques, I don't know if there's much they could have done in terms of pulling their defender out of the paint. A Marques Bolden jump shot is probably what every team would prefer happen at the end of our fast breaks.

This play from early on? It was Marvin running the lane (not Javin or Marques).

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DefiantUnevenChinesecrocodilelizard-size_restricted.gif

It certainly wasn't a textbook 5-on-3, and I'm sure Trevon would like that one back. He probably needed to fill in the lane wider out right and get the defender to commit to him so that he could hit Wendell on the other side of the lane. Marvin cluttered the block, which I don't think was the design, but maybe Marvin was supposed to be option 1 there. My guess is that there should have been either 3 wide with Wendell trailing and Marvin out further left or 4 wide with Trevon on one side of the lane and Wendell on the other. If the middle defender commits to Trevon, Wendell is open for the pass. If the middle man stays on Wendell, and the strong-side help shades to Tre, then Gary is open for a three.

Not perfect, but it worked. That's the wiggle room you are afforded with this much talent.


High-Res Link (who knows?) (https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/DefiantUnevenChinesecrocodilelizard)


- Chillin

BandAlum83
12-06-2017, 02:59 PM
This play from early on? It was Marvin running the lane (not Javin or Marques).

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DefiantUnevenChinesecrocodilelizard-size_restricted.gif

It certainly wasn't a textbook 5-on-3, and I'm sure Trevon would like that one back. He probably needed to fill in the lane wider out right and get the defender to commit to him so that he could hit Wendell on the other side of the lane. Marvin cluttered the block, which I don't think was the design, but maybe Marvin was supposed to be option 1 there. My guess is that there should have been either 3 wide with Wendell trailing and Marvin out further left or 4 wide with Trevon on one side of the lane and Wendell on the other. If the middle defender commits to Trevon, Wendell is open for the pass. If the middle man stays on Wendell, and the strong-side help shades to Tre, then Gary is open for a three.

Not perfect, but it worked. That's the wiggle room you are afforded with this much talent.


High-Res Link (who knows?) (https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/DefiantUnevenChinesecrocodilelizard)


- Chillin

That is the play, I believe. The view from under the basket made the entire sequence look even more awkward.

But you are right in the bolded. Not many big men would have handled that pass in stride and finished without traveling, charging, fumbling the ball or missing the basket. Wendell has such great hands!

kAzE
12-06-2017, 03:05 PM
That is the play, I believe. The view from under the basket made the entire sequence look even more awkward.

But you are right in the bolded. Not many big men would have handled that pass in stride and finished without traveling, charging, fumbling the ball or missing the basket. Wendell has such great hands!

He does have incredible hands for a young big man (Marques would love those hands), but that play in particular had just as much to do with his feet. He caught the ball awkwardly in traffic, and somehow was able to get a handle on it, then take a dribble before going another step, all while on the run, weaving through 3 different defenders and regaining his balance enough to finish the play. Really amazing body control by such a massive human being.

BandAlum83
12-06-2017, 03:24 PM
He does have incredible hands for a young big man (Marques would love those hands), but that play in particular had just as much to do with his feet. He caught the ball awkwardly in traffic, and somehow was able to get a handle on it, then take a dribble before going another step, all while on the run, weaving through 3 different defenders and regaining his balance enough to finish the play. Really amazing body control by such a massive human being.

Absolutely! And he actually made it look easy. He and Bagley both make everything look so easy on a regular basis. Like all it takes is to be big.

Amazing. We are really being treated to some great basketball as Duke fans this year.