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View Full Version : MBB: Duke vs. S. Dakota (Sat 12/2, 3:30 ET, ESPN2) Pre-Game and In-Game Thread



JBDuke
12-01-2017, 12:27 AM
Duke faces South Dakota back in the friendly confines of Cameron this Saturday afternoon on ESPN2.

brevity
12-01-2017, 02:44 AM
I don’t know if Duke has ever played the University of South Dakota before (or any other team from South Dakota), but it got me curious about something.

Over in the Off-Topic board is some discussion about individual attempts to visit all 50 states. Similarly, I wonder how many U.S. states are represented by Duke’s opponents -- if not all-time, then at least in the Coach K era. I am not so concerned about where they play, mostly because it will almost always be Cameron or a neutral court. If we stick to the Coach K era, then it would be a somewhat geographic way of describing his long career.

We can start with the ACC, which covers FL, GA, IN, KY, MA, NC, NY, PA, SC, and VA, and used to cover MD. That's 11 states. Using Basketball Reference (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/gimel-martinez-1.html) I can add the following unique states by season, starting with the current season and working backwards.

2017-18: LA, MI, OR, SD, TX, UT
2016-17: AL, AZ, KS, ME, NV, RI, TN
2015-16: CA, CT, plus DC
2014-15: OH, WA, WI
2013-14: VT
2012-13: DE, NE, MN
2011-12: CO
2010-11: IL, MO, NJ
2009-10: AR, IA, OK, WV
2008-09: MT
2007-08: NM
2006-07: (none)
2005-06: (none)
2004-05: MS
2003-04: (none)
2002-03: (none)
2001-02: (none)
2000-01: (none)
1999-00: (none)
1998-99: (none)
1997-98: HI
1996-97: (none)
1995-96: (none)
1994-95: (none)
1993-94: (none)
1992-93: (none)
1991-92: (none)
1990-91: (none)
1989-90: (none)
1988-89: (none)
1987-88: (none)
1986-87: (none)
1985-86: (none)
1984-85: (none)
1983-84: (none)
1982-83: NH
1981-82: (none)
1980-81: (none)

Things I learned...

1. I got tired of this exercise very quickly. Like, by DeMarcus Nelson's senior year. So I may have missed something.

2. I should have done this in the proper chronological order. That way you could see when Coach K first faced a team from a particular state. (In the case of South Dakota, it will be Saturday.)

3. Coach K's list of opponents represent 46 U.S. states. He has yet to face any team from Alaska, Idaho, North Dakota, or Wyoming. (Yes, Duke played in the Great Alaska Shootout in 1998-99, but they did not draw Alaska-Anchorage.)

AGDukesky
12-01-2017, 08:26 AM
It sounds like you probably accessed the complete list, but the Duke Media Guide at least used to list the team’s record against all opponents with dates/score. It would be a much easier way to check.

Tripping William
12-01-2017, 08:31 AM
I don’t know if Duke has ever played the University of South Dakota before (or any other team from South Dakota), but it got me curious about something.

Over in the Off-Topic board is some discussion about individual attempts to visit all 50 states. Similarly, I wonder how many U.S. states are represented by Duke’s opponents -- if not all-time, then at least in the Coach K era. I am not so concerned about where they play, mostly because it will almost always be Cameron or a neutral court. If we stick to the Coach K era, then it would be a somewhat geographic way of describing his long career.

We can start with the ACC, which covers FL, GA, IN, KY, MA, NC, NY, PA, SC, and VA, and used to cover MD. That's 11 states. Using Basketball Reference (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/gimel-martinez-1.html) I can add the following unique states by season, starting with the current season and working backwards.

2017-18: LA, MI, OR, SD, TX, UT
2016-17: AL, AZ, KS, ME, NV, RI, TN
2015-16: CA, CT, plus DC
2014-15: OH, WA, WI
2013-14: VT
2012-13: DE, NE, MN
2011-12: CO
2010-11: IL, MO, NJ
2009-10: AR, IA, OK, WV
2008-09: MT
2007-08: NM
2006-07: (none)
2005-06: (none)
2004-05: MS
2003-04: (none)
2002-03: (none)
2001-02: (none)
2000-01: (none)
1999-00: (none)
1998-99: (none)
1997-98: HI
1996-97: (none)
1995-96: (none)
1994-95: (none)
1993-94: (none)
1992-93: (none)
1991-92: (none)
1990-91: (none)
1989-90: (none)
1988-89: (none)
1987-88: (none)
1986-87: (none)
1985-86: (none)
1984-85: (none)
1983-84: (none)
1982-83: NH
1981-82: (none)
1980-81: (none)

Things I learned...

1. I got tired of this exercise very quickly. Like, by DeMarcus Nelson's senior year. So I may have missed something.

2. I should have done this in the proper chronological order. That way you could see when Coach K first faced a team from a particular state. (In the case of South Dakota, it will be Saturday.)

3. Coach K's list of opponents represent 46 U.S. states. He has yet to face any team from Alaska, Idaho, North Dakota, or Wyoming. (Yes, Duke played in the Great Alaska Shootout in 1998-99, but they did not draw Alaska-Anchorage.)

Off the top, I know Duke played BYU in the 1992 Maui Invitational (as part of the 1992-93 season), played Utah at least as early as March 2015, and played Utah State two seasons ago (November 2015, as part of the 2016 season).

flyingdutchdevil
12-01-2017, 08:46 AM
I don’t know if Duke has ever played the University of South Dakota before (or any other team from South Dakota), but it got me curious about something.

Over in the Off-Topic board is some discussion about individual attempts to visit all 50 states. Similarly, I wonder how many U.S. states are represented by Duke’s opponents -- if not all-time, then at least in the Coach K era. I am not so concerned about where they play, mostly because it will almost always be Cameron or a neutral court. If we stick to the Coach K era, then it would be a somewhat geographic way of describing his long career.

We can start with the ACC, which covers FL, GA, IN, KY, MA, NC, NY, PA, SC, and VA, and used to cover MD. That's 11 states. Using Basketball Reference (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/gimel-martinez-1.html) I can add the following unique states by season, starting with the current season and working backwards.

2017-18: LA, MI, OR, SD, TX, UT
2016-17: AL, AZ, KS, ME, NV, RI, TN
2015-16: CA, CT, plus DC
2014-15: OH, WA, WI
2013-14: VT
2012-13: DE, NE, MN
2011-12: CO
2010-11: IL, MO, NJ
2009-10: AR, IA, OK, WV
2008-09: MT
2007-08: NM
2006-07: (none)
2005-06: (none)
2004-05: MS
2003-04: (none)
2002-03: (none)
2001-02: (none)
2000-01: (none)
1999-00: (none)
1998-99: (none)
1997-98: HI
1996-97: (none)
1995-96: (none)
1994-95: (none)
1993-94: (none)
1992-93: (none)
1991-92: (none)
1990-91: (none)
1989-90: (none)
1988-89: (none)
1987-88: (none)
1986-87: (none)
1985-86: (none)
1984-85: (none)
1983-84: (none)
1982-83: NH
1981-82: (none)
1980-81: (none)

Things I learned...

1. I got tired of this exercise very quickly. Like, by DeMarcus Nelson's senior year. So I may have missed something.

2. I should have done this in the proper chronological order. That way you could see when Coach K first faced a team from a particular state. (In the case of South Dakota, it will be Saturday.)

3. Coach K's list of opponents represent 46 U.S. states. He has yet to face any team from Alaska, Idaho, North Dakota, or Wyoming. (Yes, Duke played in the Great Alaska Shootout in 1998-99, but they did not draw Alaska-Anchorage.)

I don't think there is an Alaska D1 team. So they should be removed...

Duke hasn't played Boise? Interesting...

mattman91
12-01-2017, 08:58 AM
I don't think there is an Alaska D1 team. So they should be removed...

Duke hasn't played Boise? Interesting...

Didn't we participate in the Great Alaskan Shootout one year?

Tripping William
12-01-2017, 09:06 AM
I don't think there is an Alaska D1 team. So they should be removed...

Duke hasn't played Boise? Interesting...

Also interesting that K hasn't played Wyoming. The Pokes have had a handful of solid squads over the years (looking at you, Fennis Dembo).

Tripping William
12-01-2017, 09:11 AM
Didn't we participate in the Great Alaskan Shootout one year?

At least three years: 1995 ('96 season), 1998 ('99 season), 2003 ('04 season).

But, back on topic, it looks like South Dakota has losses to TCU and Northern Colorado. I briefly confused them with South Dakota State. My bad.

duke4ever19
12-01-2017, 09:43 AM
Didn't we participate in the Great Alaskan Shootout one year?

Already dealt with in Brevity's original post.

Playing in a state does not equate to playing a team from that state. Per Brevity, Duke has never faced a team from Alaska. Someone else claims that Alaska does not have a D-1 sports program.

Alaska does have a D-II Men's BBall team, but Duke would have to play them if that team won their tournament and Duke scheduled them, as they have done with D-2 championship teams.

This last point leads me to my own question . . . I wonder if (1) exhibition teams count in this list (I'd assume they would) and (2) if adding exhibition games ends up adding one of the missing states.

UrinalCake
12-01-2017, 09:54 AM
Expect a letdown game for the team; SD will likely hang around for a while. Hoping our huge talent advantage allows us to build a lead and we can get the bench guys some burn. They’ll bring good energy as they have some opportunities to play coming up.

Other than seeing how our team responds to having completed an exhausting stretch of the schedule, I’m not sure we’re going to learn very much from this game. I imagine K will use these next few weeks to work on specific things that he’s seen.

devildeac
12-01-2017, 10:14 AM
I don’t know if Duke has ever played the University of South Dakota before (or any other team from South Dakota), but it got me curious about something.

Over in the Off-Topic board is some discussion about individual attempts to visit all 50 states. Similarly, I wonder how many U.S. states are represented by Duke’s opponents -- if not all-time, then at least in the Coach K era. I am not so concerned about where they play, mostly because it will almost always be Cameron or a neutral court. If we stick to the Coach K era, then it would be a somewhat geographic way of describing his long career.

We can start with the ACC, which covers FL, GA, IN, KY, MA, NC, NY, PA, SC, and VA, and used to cover MD. That's 11 states. Using Basketball Reference (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/gimel-martinez-1.html) I can add the following unique states by season, starting with the current season and working backwards.

2017-18: LA, MI, OR, SD, TX, UT
2016-17: AL, AZ, KS, ME, NV, RI, TN
2015-16: CA, CT, plus DC
2014-15: OH, WA, WI
2013-14: VT
2012-13: DE, NE, MN
2011-12: CO
2010-11: IL, MO, NJ
2009-10: AR, IA, OK, WV
2008-09: MT
2007-08: NM
2006-07: (none)
2005-06: (none)
2004-05: MS
2003-04: (none)
2002-03: (none)
2001-02: (none)
2000-01: (none)
1999-00: (none)
1998-99: (none)
1997-98: HI
1996-97: (none)
1995-96: (none)
1994-95: (none)
1993-94: (none)
1992-93: (none)
1991-92: (none)
1990-91: (none)
1989-90: (none)
1988-89: (none)
1987-88: (none)
1986-87: (none)
1985-86: (none)
1984-85: (none)
1983-84: (none)
1982-83: NH
1981-82: (none)
1980-81: (none)

Things I learned...

1. I got tired of this exercise very quickly. Like, by DeMarcus Nelson's senior year. So I may have missed something.

2. I should have done this in the proper chronological order. That way you could see when Coach K first faced a team from a particular state. (In the case of South Dakota, it will be Saturday.)

3. Coach K's list of opponents represent 46 U.S. states. He has yet to face any team from Alaska, Idaho, North Dakota, or Wyoming. (Yes, Duke played in the Great Alaska Shootout in 1998-99, but they did not draw Alaska-Anchorage.)

Kinda like assembling a beer list to see if one has had a brew from all 50 states. :o

What'd you expect from me? :rolleyes:

Seriously, very interesting compilation. Thanks for sharing this.

I'll be very interested to see how the Devils play with a "bit" of rest and back at home. K did mention in the News and Observer today that they need practice to correct some errors/bad habits and teach a bunch of things but there has been very little time for that given their amazing traveling schedule.

kAzE
12-01-2017, 10:18 AM
Expect a letdown game for the team; SD will likely hang around for a while. Hoping our huge talent advantage allows us to build a lead and we can get the bench guys some burn. They’ll bring good energy as they have some opportunities to play coming up.

Other than seeing how our team responds to having completed an exhausting stretch of the schedule, I’m not sure we’re going to learn very much from this game. I imagine K will use these next few weeks to work on specific things that he’s seen.

Why's that? It's not like Indiana was a huge emotionally charged game. And it's not like we've been off for a week and will be sluggish, it been 3 days. We're rested, probably got a practice in, first game back home after 4 straight games on the road. These are the most ideal conditions we've had since the Furman game, I think we blow them out of the gym.

BandAlum83
12-01-2017, 10:54 AM
Go Duke!!!

Troublemaker
12-01-2017, 11:03 AM
USD has played one P5 school so far, losing at TCU (#24 kenpom) by only five. Box Score (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400989242). TCU (and former Pitt) coach Jamie Dixon's postgame presser (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKb8PQ5tL2E). I haven't watched but maybe something can be gleaned from there.

USD's best player and leading scorer is 6'3" shooting guard Matt Mooney, who hung 31 on TCU. Let's see if Gary Trent and Duke can do a better job on him. Highlights of Mooney from last season (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ydPURFIexE).

USD's second leading scorer is a 6'10" stretch-5 big man in Tyler Hagedorn, who will pull Wendell and Marques out of the lane. Although I'm not sure Coach will play Marques much. He might play Javin more so Marvin gets to guard Hagedorn.

Troublemaker
12-01-2017, 11:30 AM
Why's that? It's not like Indiana was a huge emotionally charged game. And it's not like we've been off for a week and will be sluggish, it been 3 days. We're rested, probably got a practice in, first game back home after 4 straight games on the road. These are the most ideal conditions we've had since the Furman game, I think we blow them out of the gym.

Technically, I might classify it as a letdown game. I mean, even the coaches have been talking about "9 games in 20 days," and so it's possible the players will feel like they've made it through that gauntlet and could let down their guard and not come out with as much focus against South Dakota.

Now, that said, this is an opponent that might be within our defensive wheelhouse. A team whose best player is a shooting guard is typically a team we've eaten for lunch in recent years because we guard wing shooters so well. Now, maybe this Duke team is different because our personnel is somewhat different from recent teams, but I tend to think we'll do a good job on Mooney. And if we accomplish that, the rout could be on.

flyingdutchdevil
12-01-2017, 11:48 AM
Technically, I might classify it as a letdown game. I mean, even the coaches have been talking about "9 games in 20 days," and so it's possible the players will feel like they've made it through that gauntlet and could let down their guard and not come out with as much focus against South Dakota.

Now, that said, this is an opponent that might be within our defensive wheelhouse. A team whose best player is a shooting guard is typically a team we've eaten for lunch in recent years because we guard wing shooters so well. Now, maybe this Duke team is different because our personnel is somewhat different from recent teams, but I tend to think we'll do a good job on Mooney. And if we accomplish that, the rout could be on.

3pt wing shooters. Important to add "3pt" to that. Guards shooting in the paint has been a nightmare historically.

chriso
12-01-2017, 11:51 AM
Call me crazy but I have a sneaking suspicion we're going to win this one.

whereinthehellami
12-01-2017, 02:30 PM
South Dakota has also played 9 games and sits at Kenpom #120. Their defense is Kenpom #88 ranked versus #156 for their offense. That doesn't bode well for playing Duke (#6 Kenpom, off=#1, def=#46). Their schedule is ranked KP#323 (D=#69). Add those numbers into playing at Duke and Duke should have some fun working on things this Saturday:)

arnie
12-01-2017, 05:09 PM
Early Vegas line is Duke by only 18.5. This game may be harder than most think.

proelitedota
12-01-2017, 05:15 PM
Anyone that expects us to put SD away in the first half needs a dose of realty.

therealcoachK
12-01-2017, 05:55 PM
Duke did play Augustana from Sioux Falls, SD as the DII Champ one year ago in an exhibition game. Clobbered them. Had they played one year earlier When Augie had really good seniors and won their DII chmpionship, I think they could've come within 15-20 points. Duke had nothing returning but role players-->MPIII, Amile, Matt, Grayson and some talented Frosh-->Ingram, Kennard, Thornton, and Jeter.
Speaking of Thornton--> dad/uncle/handlers can't be happy with his production/usage.

uh_no
12-01-2017, 06:00 PM
Early Vegas line is Duke by only 18.5. This game may be harder than most think.

18.5????

or maybe they're getting used to the fact that duke is using cupcakes to work on things rather than blow people out by 30.

pfrduke
12-01-2017, 06:09 PM
18.5????

or maybe they're getting used to the fact that duke is using cupcakes to work on things rather than blow people out by 30.

All caveats about Pomeroy included, but South Dakota is currently ranked as the most difficult non-major conference opponent on our schedule. Now, we have beaten 3 relatively similarly rated teams by around 30, so I would be optimistic that we will cover, but they seem to be a decent opponent.

Troublemaker
12-01-2017, 07:07 PM
All caveats about Pomeroy included, but South Dakota is currently ranked as the most difficult non-major conference opponent on our schedule. Now, we have beaten 3 relatively similarly rated teams by around 30, so I would be optimistic that we will cover, but they seem to be a decent opponent.

Right, kenpom puts the spread at 19, for example, so an 18.5 spread shouldn't be surprising. The really big spreads come when we play 200+ ranked teams.

MChambers
12-01-2017, 07:11 PM
Right, kenpom puts the spread at 19, for example, so an 18.5 spread shouldn't be surprising. The really big spreads come when we play 200+ ranked teams.

When South Dakota cuts a 10 point first half lead to 3, we shouldn't panic, even if the announcers are going crazy?

subzero02
12-01-2017, 07:14 PM
Whether or not we cover the 18.5 point spread will likely come down to the play of O'Connell and Bolden and also how we shoot FTs.

arnie
12-02-2017, 06:49 AM
18.5????

or maybe they're getting used to the fact that duke is using cupcakes to work on things rather than blow people out by 30.

Apparently some DBR posters placed huge bets on Duke. Betting lines now range from 19.5 - 21.

budwom
12-02-2017, 09:11 AM
When South Dakota cuts a 10 point first half lead to 3, we shouldn't panic, even if the announcers are going crazy?

I always watch with the sound off to avoid all that...I know what most of them are going to say without actually listening to them.

jv001
12-02-2017, 09:14 AM
I always watch with the sound off to avoid all that...I know what most of them are going to say without actually listening to them.

I did this for almost the entire Ind. game. Like you stated, I pretty much know what the announcers are going to say. GoDuke!

Saratoga2
12-02-2017, 09:16 AM
Whether or not we cover the 18.5 point spread will likely come down to the play of O'Connell and Bolden and also how we shoot FTs.

The concern aboout O'Connell coming in was that he might not be strong enough to play at the Div I level. He was listed at around 6'6" (in shoes) and 171 lbs. We have seen him play and he definitely has court awareness, decent handle and a high motor. His shot mechanics also look good. He certainly doesn't shy away from contact but probably is not the guy to handle a posting up strong guard. I'm wondering if he is putting on weight and strength in the Duke training program. One would expect so but no one close to the program has mentioned that aspect.

I think that many freshmen tend to defer to who they believe to be star players when it comes to offense. I think that O'Connell is one of these but may well be able to score efficiently if encouraged to do so. Nice to have someone in the wings with his obvious potential.

BD80
12-02-2017, 01:27 PM
When South Dakota cuts a 10 point first half lead to 3, we shouldn't panic, even if the announcers are going crazy?

If recent trends are of any import, we need to be down with 10 minutes to go.

-jk
12-02-2017, 03:05 PM
DBR Chat (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox) is open!

If it gets a bit slow, refresh the page. If you're on a mobile device, you'll need to select "Blue" at the bottom.

As always - please follow the DBR Posting Guidelines.

Let's Go Duke!

-jk

DU82
12-02-2017, 03:09 PM
Checking the current media guide, we’re 2-0 against Wyoming, both on neutral courts, in ‘55 and ‘60.

The women’s team hosts Wyoming on the 21st.

MChambers
12-02-2017, 03:24 PM
If recent trends are of any import, we need to be down with 10 minutes to go.

Isn’t that when this team plays best?

riverside6
12-02-2017, 03:26 PM
Live tempo-based stats for Duke/SD...

https://www.scacchoops.com/south-dakota-at-duke-basketball-live-stats-12022017

YmoBeThere
12-02-2017, 03:35 PM
Note that we did trail in this game...

accfanfrom1970
12-02-2017, 04:28 PM
But Coach K played eleven guys in the first half....didn't think I'd see that no matter what the score is.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
12-02-2017, 04:29 PM
Do we have a word on Tucker?

MChambers
12-02-2017, 04:32 PM
But Coach K played eleven guys in the first half...didn't think I'd see that no matter what the score is.

Don’t think we’ll see that in January, but it’s nice to see him go deeper than eight players. It’s possible Coach K is just messing with our playing time predictions, though.

MChambers
12-02-2017, 05:04 PM
Seems like Gary has been sitting for a while, no?

Edit: he’s back in.

jipops
12-02-2017, 05:33 PM
S Dakota about to hang 80 in Cameron. Turnovers have been a factor but the defense has been pretty awful in the 2nd half. Lots of issues to solve there before January.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
12-02-2017, 05:36 PM
S Dakota about to hang 80 in Cameron. Turnovers have been a factor but the defense has been pretty awful in the 2nd half. Lots of issues to solve there before January.

Yeah...