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View Full Version : MBB: Duke at Indiana (Wed, 11/29, 930pm, ESPN) Pre-Game and In-Game Thread



JBDuke
11-28-2017, 10:09 PM
Duke travels to Bloomington to take on the Hoosiers as part of the ACC-Big 10 Challenge.

Furniture
11-28-2017, 10:45 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/935655214694195200/photo/2

somebody asked how the team travel. Well Bolden looks reasonably comfy....

subzero02
11-29-2017, 12:07 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/935655214694195200/photo/2

somebody asked how the team travel. Well Bolden looks reasonably comfy...

How can he not be comfy with all of that leg room... great googly moogly!!!

Olympic Fan
11-29-2017, 01:07 AM
Interesting series ... Duke and Indiana never met until the 1987 NCAA Sweet 16, when Knight beat Coach K in Cincinnati en route to the national title.

Duke leads the series now 5-3, having won the last three meetings.

There was a time when K had a tough time with Knight -- both on the court and on the recruiting trail.

Both teams have some big wins in the series. Duke's win in the 1992 NCAA semifinals left Knight furious and, for several years, broke up the friendship between the two coaches. But Indiana's win in the 2002 Sweet 16 was one of the toughest losses Coach K has ever suffered (and only happened because Bruce Benedict swallowed his whistle on the final play).

This is the fourth meeting in the Challenge. Duke has won the other three -- the first in Bloomington and the last two in Cameron.

juise
11-29-2017, 01:40 AM
(and only happened because Bruce Benedict swallowed his whistle on the final play)

Matt Christensen agrees. JWill appreciates you letting his FT off the hook. The dry erase board on my dorm room door was not let off the hook at the end of that game (my roommate had to buy us a new one).

brlftz
11-29-2017, 01:56 AM
The third most annoying loss of my Duke fandom. '94 is first (soooo close to an unbelievably unlikely title based almost solely on the greatness of Grant), '04 second (WE WERE ROBBED BY THE OFFICIALS). '99 would be higher, but I didn't love that team as much as the first two. '86 was before my time, but that one retroactively hurts too.

subzero02
11-29-2017, 01:59 AM
Matt Christensen agrees. JWill appreciates you letting his FT off the hook. The dry erase board on my dorm room door was not let off the hook at the end of that game (my roommate had to buy us a new one).

I remember that Christensen issued a public apology regarding his post game interactions with an official. Incidentally, Jared Jeffries confessed to having fouled Boozer on the rebound and put back.

Spanarkel
11-29-2017, 07:35 AM
Interesting series ... Duke and Indiana never met until the 1987 NCAA Sweet 16, when Knight beat Coach K in Cincinnati en route to the national title.

Duke leads the series now 5-3, having won the last three meetings.

There was a time when K had a tough time with Knight -- both on the court and on the recruiting trail.

Both teams have some big wins in the series. Duke's win in the 1992 NCAA semifinals left Knight furious and, for several years, broke up the friendship between the two coaches. But Indiana's win in the 2002 Sweet 16 was one of the toughest losses Coach K has ever suffered (and only happened because Bruce Benedict swallowed his whistle on the final play).

This is the fourth meeting in the Challenge. Duke has won the other three -- the first in Bloomington and the last two in Cameron.

Apologize if this is really obvious, but I'm assuming Coach Knight's frustration with the '92 NCAA semifinals game concerns the FT(42/16)and Fouls(18/33) disparity for Duke/IU, respectively.

Neals384
11-29-2017, 08:21 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/935655214694195200/photo/2

somebody asked how the team travel. Well Bolden looks reasonably comfy...

checked all the photos and everyone's wearing winter gear. No heat on that plane?

AGDukesky
11-29-2017, 08:25 AM
This is a very dangerous game. First true road game for a young team against an Indiana team starting to find itself. Duke’s clear advantage is inside but Indiana just beat an Eastern Michigan that is not bad and hit a ton of 3-pointers. I don’t think falling behind big in this one will work at Assembly Hall...

UrinalCake
11-29-2017, 08:51 AM
I’m more worried about this game than most others seem to be. First true road game in a raucous arena. Plus we’re coming down off the high of winning the PK80. The team struggled in the Elon game, which we chalked up to them having a letdown after the MSU win, and I could see the same happening today. Plus if we fall behind early (again) it will be much harder to come back on the road.

Talent-wise we should win easily, but the Indiana team we play today will not be the same team that lost to Indiana State. They’re the same human beings, but their intensity and effort will be so different that they may as well be totally different players.

luburch
11-29-2017, 08:58 AM
I'll be toughing out some sickness and in attendance this evening.

This Indiana team isn't great by any means. Crean didn't leave Archie much to work with this year.

Indiana's best player is 6'-10" sophomore De'Ron Davis. He's a traditional low-pot player with a mediocre jump shot. He does have a tendency to find himself in foul trouble. Juwan Morgan does a little bit of everything for Indiana. Can shoot some, rebounds, willing passer. He's not going to go for 20 and 10, but he'll put up a quiet 10 points and 7 rebounds. Collin Hartman is a stretch four, who just came back from injury. He might still be on a minutes restriction. Justin Smith is a promising freshmen who will see time in the post. Freddie McSwain will get minutes down low as well. He's a bit of a junkyard dog player. Sees time for rebounding and toughness.

On the perimeter are two seniors. Robert Johnson is a bit of a combo guard. He can shoot and put the ball on the floor, but isn't great at creating his own shoot. Josh Newkirk (transfer from Pitt) starts at the point. He's a streaky shooter. Devonte Green (younger brother of Danny) sees a lot of time as well. Al Durham will likely see significant time tonight as well. He's a freshmen and I think many of you will really love his game. Very smooth player.

I haven't seen Indiana play zone this season. They play man-to-man and have, like Duke, been pretty poor at defending the 3. Think it's important to get off to a quick start in this one and not let Assembly Hall become a factor.

dukebluesincebirth
11-29-2017, 09:03 AM
If Duke can come out and dominate this game, I think the rest of the country better be on notice. A solid performance tonight will solidify the growth and confidence that we gained at PK80. I'm usually on the pessimistic side, but I feel good about tonight. I think we gained a ton of confidence, and I think this young team will learn from their first half deficits. K is a great teacher. These kids will know they need to come out of the gate with better poise and decision making. I looked at Indiana's previous games and they give up 85-90 points to mediocre teams. Even if they're hot shooting and playing off home crowd adrenaline, I can't imagine them raining more 3s than Florida did on us. I think we score close to 100 points or more tonight and win by 20+. LETS GO DEVILS!!

Owen Meany
11-29-2017, 09:14 AM
Apologize if this is really obvious, but I'm assuming Coach Knight's frustration with the '92 NCAA semifinals game concerns the FT(42/16)and Fouls(18/33) disparity for Duke/IU, respectively.

I'm sure these stats didn't help Knights anger, but Knight simply didn't like to lose. These stats are also exacerbated by the fact that Indiana intentionally fouled 6 times down the stretch giving Duke 12 free throws (and allowed Leary a quick barrage of 3 3-pointers after being scoreless prior). I know I have read that Coach K was very hurt by Knight's flyby handshake after the game, and that Knight subsequently would tell people that "mike had changed" with his success. I believe fences were only mended years later when Coach K approached Knight about inducting him into the Hall of Fame. Knight was appeased when he was presented as a mentor and key to Coach K's success.

sagegrouse
11-29-2017, 09:50 AM
Interesting series ... Duke and Indiana never met until the 1987 NCAA Sweet 16, when Knight beat Coach K in Cincinnati en route to the national title.

Duke leads the series now 5-3, having won the last three meetings.

There was a time when K had a tough time with Knight -- both on the court and on the recruiting trail.

Both teams have some big wins in the series. Duke's win in the 1992 NCAA semifinals left Knight furious and, for several years, broke up the friendship between the two coaches. But Indiana's win in the 2002 Sweet 16 was one of the toughest losses Coach K has ever suffered (and only happened because Bruce Benedict swallowed his whistle on the final play).

This is the fourth meeting in the Challenge. Duke has won the other three -- the first in Bloomington and the last two in Cameron.

Oly, I thought the Feinstein book. Season on the Brink, which was published in 1986, was the source of the rift. K had recommended that Knight allow Feinstein, then a Post reporter, to follow him for a year.

thedukelamere
11-29-2017, 09:59 AM
The third most annoying loss of my Duke fandom. '94 is first (soooo close to an unbelievably unlikely title based almost solely on the greatness of Grant), '04 second (WE WERE ROBBED BY THE OFFICIALS). '99 would be higher, but I didn't love that team as much as the first two. '86 was before my time, but that one retroactively hurts too.

Same with it coming in at #3...

1. '06 - The words "Big Baby" still send me into a frenzy. JJ was and still is my all-time fav and seeing him have the worst game of his life exasperated the situation.
2. '04 - Had a huge party in high school and was pretty much the only die hard Dukie there. There were few that felt bad for me since we GOT ROBBED, but the rest reveled in the opportunity to gloat.
3. '02 - Carlos Boozer has had a long and fruitful career, but I'll never forgive him for not just laying it in instead of bringing it down to get hacked. Still can't believed they fouled J-Will to give us a chance.
4. '94 - Lost my first bet at age 7. My grandpa made me earn and pay him the $10.
5. '99

*I refuse to go back and watch the '86 game.

That being said, I think we win by 14+ tonight... Couple of runs either way, then settle into our A-game at around 13 minutes left to play and put the game on ice.

Matches
11-29-2017, 10:05 AM
On paper this looks like a game we should win comfortably. I do have some concern about jet lag though, the team has done a LOT of travelling over the last week plus. I'm generally of the mind that concerns about fatigue are overblown but the time zone changes and whatnot actually can play havoc with even a well-conditioned teenager.

BandAlum83
11-29-2017, 10:09 AM
GO Duke!!!

Troublemaker
11-29-2017, 10:26 AM
I’m more worried about this game than most others seem to be. First true road game in a raucous arena. Plus we’re coming down off the high of winning the PK80. The team struggled in the Elon game, which we chalked up to them having a letdown after the MSU win, and I could see the same happening today. Plus if we fall behind early (again) it will be much harder to come back on the road.

Talent-wise we should win easily, but the Indiana team we play today will not be the same team that lost to Indiana State. They’re the same human beings, but their intensity and effort will be so different that they may as well be totally different players.

Yep, the biggest factors in the game might be the intangibles. Just how exhausted (physically and mentally) is this Duke team given the travel and the packed schedule thus far and coming off emotional comeback wins? How will the freshmen react to their first road game? Can our young team ignore that IU lost to Indiana St at home since Indiana St flukishly shot 17 for 26 from three? Will they realize that, as you stated, the IU team that shows up tonight will be completely different from what they see on film? That the Hoosiers have had since Friday to prepare while Duke was still flying back to Durham Monday morning? That Archie Miller would love nothing more than to kick-start his reign at IU by upsetting #1 Duke? That Assembly Hall is going to be nuts?

As an aside, I finally got to watch Duke-Florida last night (sucks to be me), and even knowing the final score beforehand, it was exhilarating. I think our fans could use an easy win tonight for our heart health, but I'm not sure we get it.

Troublemaker
11-29-2017, 10:38 AM
Freddie McSwain will get minutes down low as well. He's a bit of a junkyard dog player. Sees time for rebounding and toughness.

Thanks for the writeup on IU, luburch.

McSwain is interesting to me. When this 6'6" 220-lb backup big checks in, don't relax. McSwain has insane rebounding rates (30.4% OReb, 25.9% DReb) and has been drawing fouls like crazy, too (129.4 FTrate). He's a very athletic Tasmanian devil type.

flyingdutchdevil
11-29-2017, 10:39 AM
Thanks for the writeup on IU, luburch.

McSwain is interesting to me. When this 6'6" 220-lb backup big checks in, don't relax. McSwain has insane rebounding rates (30.4% OReb, 25.9% DReb) and has been drawing fouls like crazy, too (129.4 FTrate). He's a very athletic Tasmanian devil type.

So he's DeLaurier Light?

TKG
11-29-2017, 10:41 AM
IU and their fans will be fired up for tonight's game. The best way to take the crowd out of the game and take some of the starch out of IU is to limit the easy drives (dunks) to the hoop and baskets in transition. We have the offensive talent to overwhelm the Hoosiers. If we clamp down on D, we can handle the opponent, fatigue and the crowd, IMO.

devildeac
11-29-2017, 10:49 AM
I'll be toughing out some sickness and in attendance this evening.

This Indiana team isn't great by any means. Crean didn't leave Archie much to work with this year.

Indiana's best player is 6'-10" sophomore De'Ron Davis. He's a traditional low-pot player with a mediocre jump shot. He does have a tendency to find himself in foul trouble. Juwan Morgan does a little bit of everything for Indiana. Can shoot some, rebounds, willing passer. He's not going to go for 20 and 10, but he'll put up a quiet 10 points and 7 rebounds. Collin Hartman is a stretch four, who just came back from injury. He might still be on a minutes restriction. Justin Smith is a promising freshmen who will see time in the post. Freddie McSwain will get minutes down low as well. He's a bit of a junkyard dog player. Sees time for rebounding and toughness.

On the perimeter are two seniors. Robert Johnson is a bit of a combo guard. He can shoot and put the ball on the floor, but isn't great at creating his own shoot. Josh Newkirk (transfer from Pitt) starts at the point. He's a streaky shooter. Devonte Green (younger brother of Danny) sees a lot of time as well. Al Durham will likely see significant time tonight as well. He's a freshmen and I think many of you will really love his game. Very smooth player.

I haven't seen Indiana play zone this season. They play man-to-man and have, like Duke, been pretty poor at defending the 3. Think it's important to get off to a quick start in this one and not let Assembly Hall become a factor.

Plus, you can stop at Taxman coming and/or going to Bloomington. ;)

rsvman
11-29-2017, 10:59 AM
..
...
Indiana's best player is 6'-10" sophomore De'Ron Davis. He's a traditional low-pot player with a mediocre jump shot. ......

I'm not sure whether it would be better to assure that he is a HIGH-POT player tonight or to deny him his pot entirely........:cool:

rsvman
11-29-2017, 11:02 AM
.... (and only happened because Bruce Benedict swallowed his whistle on the final play).

.....

Am I the only one that remembers that one of the Indiana players also ran the sidelines with the ball on a late inbounds play? You can run the baseline, but you can't run the sideline. No call. Ball should have been awarded to us.

Please tell me that somebody else out there saw this, too!

uh_no
11-29-2017, 11:12 AM
Am I the only one that remembers that one of the Indiana players also ran the sidelines with the ball on a late inbounds play? You can run the baseline, but you can't run the sideline. No call. Ball should have been awarded to us.

Please tell me that somebody else out there saw this, too!

only sort of. you can ONLY run after a made basket....which implicitly restricts it to the baseline. It is nothing special about the baseline itself.

you CANNOT run the baseline in general cases: infraction/live ball timeout/foul/jump ball/etc.

hallcity
11-29-2017, 11:15 AM
IU and their fans will be fired up for tonight's game. The best way to take the crowd out of the game and take some of the starch out of IU is to limit the easy drives (dunks) to the hoop and baskets in transition. We have the offensive talent to overwhelm the Hoosiers. If we clamp down on D, we can handle the opponent, fatigue and the crowd, IMO.

The problem is that in Portland Duke allowed opposing teams to rush out to early leads. The comebacks were stupendous but relying on comebacks in a true road game is dangerous. Piss factor wins are beautiful but you can't count on them.

rsvman
11-29-2017, 11:20 AM
only sort of. you can ONLY run after a made basket...which implicitly restricts it to the baseline. It is nothing special about the baseline itself.

you CANNOT run the baseline in general cases: infraction/live ball timeout/foul/jump ball/etc.

I'm aware of this. I didn't want to needlessly complicate the post. The point is that there is no situation in which it's ok to run the sideline, so the ball should have been awarded to us.

If memory serves, Christensen was pointing the movement it to the ref, but to no avail.

Hauerwas
11-29-2017, 11:26 AM
As I said in another thread, I circled this game as a potential L when the schedule first came out not based on Indiana's talent level, but based on our travel schedule. And, IU is already in panic/desperation mode, so in many ways a win against Duke in November could totally change the trajectory of their season, or at least calm down the fan base. This will be their Super Bowl, so will we be mature enough to match their intensity or will we continue to start slow. The key to the game will be the first 5 minutes. If we lock down on D and don't allow them to play out of their mind then we should have the talent to walk away with this one. But freshman are a funny thing. I'd look for a big game from Grayson to stable us, hopefully we limit turnovers and are strong at the rim and figure out our man to man defense along the way.

PackMan97
11-29-2017, 11:33 AM
Even though Archie is a former State player, I hope you guys beat Indiana senseless. From what I understand in most of our two most recent coaching searches, Yow couldn't even get the Miller clan to talk to her. If they think State fans are delusional, I'd love to see how Indiana fans react if Miller lost his first game to a cupcake. Oh wait.... :)

Truth&Justise
11-29-2017, 11:38 AM
I'm aware of this. I didn't want to needlessly complicate the post. The point is that there is no situation in which it's ok to run the sideline, so the ball should have been awarded to us.

If memory serves, Christensen was pointing the movement it to the ref, but to no avail.

There's a little bit of wiggle room on this. For a sideline in-bound play, the following rules apply (Rule 7, Sec. 6, Art. 8):

The designated [throw-in] spot shall be 3-feet wide with no depth limitation.
The thrower-in must keep one foot on or over the designated spot until the ball is released. Pivot foot restrictions and the traveling rule are not in effect for a throw-in.

So the inbounding player can move along a 3-foot section of the sideline, so long as he keeps a foot at the central designated spot. In practice most guys stand still, but it is perfectly legal to shuffle the feet or take a few small steps in either direction.

That said, I don't remember if the particular play in the 2002 Indiana game would be consistent with this rule (or if this version of the rule was in effect then).

BD80
11-29-2017, 11:47 AM
This is a very dangerous game. First true road game for a young team against an Indiana team starting to find itself. Duke’s clear advantage is inside but Indiana just beat an Eastern Michigan that is not bad and hit a ton of 3-pointers. I don’t think falling behind big in this one will work at Assembly Hall...


I’m more worried about this game than most others seem to be. ...
Talent-wise we should win easily, but the Indiana team we play today will not be the same team that lost to Indiana State. They’re the same human beings, but their intensity and effort will be so different that they may as well be totally different players.

Guys, stop watching "Hoosiers"


... Devonte Green (younger brother of Danny) sees a lot of time as well. ...

Does he dance?


As I said in another thread, I circled this game as a potential L ...

This is relatively optimistic! Baby steps ...


Another chance to watch a supremely talented squad learning to play basketball under the GOAT.

GO DEVILS!

sagegrouse
11-29-2017, 12:03 PM
The last three games have been "The Perils of Pauline," starring the Duke basketball squad. I ain't taking anything for granted tonight, nor am I automatically assuming a comeback if we fall behind.

Pep talk points for the Blue Devils:

1. [Channeling Bones McKinney from 56 years ago.] "This here's my man Grayson Allen." If you guards don't get him the ball, you are gonna be sitting right here on the bench next to me." (Actual quote involved Wake's A-A center Len Chappell and was addressed, inter alia, to Billy Packer."

2. Grayson, you're the captain and the leader of this team. Demand the ball and make plays!

3. Wendell, you can play as well in the first ten minutes as in the last ten minutes. Go get 'em!

4. Trevon and Gary, I really liked the ball hawking at the end of the Florida game. Those were miracle plays and won the game for us. Keep up the good work!

subzero02
11-29-2017, 12:22 PM
I’m more worried about this game than most others seem to be. First true road game in a raucous arena. Plus we’re coming down off the high of winning the PK80. The team struggled in the Elon game, which we chalked up to them having a letdown after the MSU win, and I could see the same happening today. Plus if we fall behind early (again) it will be much harder to come back on the road.

Talent-wise we should win easily, but the Indiana team we play today will not be the same team that lost to Indiana State. They’re the same human beings, but their intensity and effort will be so different that they may as well be totally different players.

Elon was our first opponent of the regular season; we played Southern after beating Michigan State.

luburch
11-29-2017, 12:41 PM
Forgot to mention that Josh McRobert's little brother, Zach, is a walk-on at IU.

flyingdutchdevil
11-29-2017, 12:42 PM
Forgot to mention that Josh McRobert's little brother, Zach, is a walk-on at IU.

McBob Jr? Dancing Green Jr? Is Indiana where the untalented siblings go to play?

TKG
11-29-2017, 12:48 PM
McBob Jr? Dancing Green Jr? Is Indiana where the untalented siblings go to play?

Does this make IU the junior varisty?

BD80
11-29-2017, 12:55 PM
Does this make IU the junior varisty?

There was a time when UCLA's JV squad would regularly beat the snot out of its champion varsity squad.

budwom
11-29-2017, 12:57 PM
^freshman squad, right? (Big Lew et al)

Olympic Fan
11-29-2017, 01:00 PM
Oly, I thought the Feinstein book. Season on the Brink, which was published in 1986, was the source of the rift. K had recommended that Knight allow Feinstein, then a Post reporter, to follow him for a year.

Nope, the two remains close long after that. Knight talked to the Duke team in Dallas during the 1986 Final Four (which may have been before the publication of the book). They were very close and chummy in 1987, before and after Indiana beat Duke in the Sweet 16. They were close leading up to the 1992 Final Four meeting. After the game, K was stunned when Knight snubbed hum just outside the interview room. The breech lasted 2-3 years.

flyingdutchdevil
11-29-2017, 01:11 PM
The last three games have been "The Perils of Pauline," starring the Duke basketball squad. I ain't taking anything for granted tonight, nor am I automatically assuming a comeback if we fall behind.

Pep talk points for the Blue Devils:

1. [Channeling Bones McKinney from 56 years ago.] "This here's my man Grayson Allen." If you guards don't get him the ball, you are gonna be sitting right here on the bench next to me." (Actual quote involved Wake's A-A center Len Chappell and was addressed, inter alia, to Billy Packer."

2. Grayson, you're the captain and the leader of this team. Demand the ball and make plays!

3. Wendell, you can play as well in the first ten minutes as in the last ten minutes. Go get 'em!

4. Trevon and Gary, I really liked the ball hawking at the end of the Florida game. Those were miracle plays and won the game for us. Keep up the good work!

I like 2-4. I don't like 1. You guards give the ball to Marvin Bagley.

BD80
11-29-2017, 01:16 PM
Nope, the two remains close long after that. Knight talked to the Duke team in Dallas during the 1986 Final Four (which may have been before the publication of the book). They were very close and chummy in 1987, before and after Indiana beat Duke in the Sweet 16. They were close leading up to the 1992 Final Four meeting. After the game, K was stunned when Knight snubbed hum just outside the interview room. The breech lasted 2-3 years.

It can be difficult for some to balance competitive fire with social pleasantries.

To me, the hand-shake line after hockey playoffs is a true marvel.

Of course, us Irishmen have been known to bare-knuckle brawl and then toast each other for the effort. Not me, but others.

TJ99
11-29-2017, 01:23 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/935655214694195200/photo/2

somebody asked how the team travel. Well Bolden looks reasonably comfy...


Anyone know if you can purchase those gray puffer jackets anywhere? Love them but assuming they are only available to the team :(

dukebluesincebirth
11-29-2017, 01:29 PM
Looks like Vegas has Duke as a 9 point favorite on the road tonight... If I was a bettin man, I'd take that one all day long. As long as we shoot free throws decently, we win this game by double digits.

Truth&Justise
11-29-2017, 01:42 PM
Looks like Vegas has Duke as a 9 point favorite on the road tonight... If I was a bettin man, I'd take that one all day long. As long as we shoot free throws decently, we win this game by double digits.

Not a given this year.

Troublemaker
11-29-2017, 01:46 PM
Looks like Vegas has Duke as a 9 point favorite on the road tonight... If I was a bettin man, I'd take that one all day long. As long as we shoot free throws decently, we win this game by double digits.

Join the DBR Betting Contest (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?40671-Pre-ACC-Picking-Contest-Degenerate-Gamblers-Rejoice!) and put the maximum amount of fake money on Duke tonight. If you're right, you'll instantly vault into the middle of the pack in the contest with confidence and room to grow; the ceiling is the roof for you!

rsvman
11-29-2017, 02:24 PM
There's a little bit of wiggle room on this. For a sideline in-bound play, the following rules apply (Rule 7, Sec. 6, Art. 8):

The designated [throw-in] spot shall be 3-feet wide with no depth limitation.
The thrower-in must keep one foot on or over the designated spot until the ball is released. Pivot foot restrictions and the traveling rule are not in effect for a throw-in.

So the inbounding player can move along a 3-foot section of the sideline, so long as he keeps a foot at the central designated spot. In practice most guys stand still, but it is perfectly legal to shuffle the feet or take a few small steps in either direction.

That said, I don't remember if the particular play in the 2002 Indiana game would be consistent with this rule (or if this version of the rule was in effect then).

Thanks for this clarification and for posting the rules. I found a video of the game and looked at it, and I'm still not convinced Coverdale didn't break the rule. The sequence is easily visible in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFga1xOchcQ. It is at the 1 hour, 19 minute, and 48 second mark of the video.


At least I verified to myself that my memory of the event was not imaginary. Again, in light of the rules you posted, it's closer to being legal than I thought it was, but I still think he breaks the rule, and I think we get that call any other time besides the last 18 seconds of an NCAA tournament game.


Sorry about what turned into a rather elongated threadjack. I guess I'm still not really over that loss. :(

left_hook_lacey
11-29-2017, 02:41 PM
Why do we have to keep getting all these super-duper late game times? I've already missed some great Duke basketball this year because I was asleep(once voluntary, once involuntary :)).

I once heard a sports radio guy say that the best place in the world to live if you are a sports guy is Hawaii if you can afford it, or anywhere on the West Coast.

The Superbowl comes on at 1pm on Sunday in Hawaii. It's over, you've finished Devildeac's last beer, cleaned up and in bed by 7 or 8pm and can go into work on Monday refreshed.

You could watch Monday Night Football at 5:30pm on the West Coast. Get off work, hit up happy hour, have dinner, watch the whole game and be in bed by 10pm.

The 9pm Duke-UNC game on a Wed night would come on at 6pm on the West Coast.

socaldukie
11-29-2017, 02:46 PM
Opening line was Duke -10 at -8.5 today, looks like some money coming in on Indiana in this trap game.

jimsumner
11-29-2017, 03:31 PM
Of course, us Irishmen have been known to bare-knuckle brawl and then toast each other for the effort. Not me, but others.

Do you mean you don't engage in bare-knuckle brawls? Or that you don't toast your opponent afterwards? :)

English
11-29-2017, 04:14 PM
Why do we have to keep getting all these super-duper late game times? I've already missed some great Duke basketball this year because I was asleep(once voluntary, once involuntary :)).

I once heard a sports radio guy say that the best place in the world to live if you are a sports guy is Hawaii if you can afford it, or anywhere on the West Coast.

The Superbowl comes on at 1pm on Sunday in Hawaii. It's over, you've finished Devildeac's last beer, cleaned up and in bed by 7 or 8pm and can go into work on Monday refreshed.

You could watch Monday Night Football at 5:30pm on the West Coast. Get off work, hit up happy hour, have dinner, watch the whole game and be in bed by 10pm.

The 9pm Duke-UNC game on a Wed night would come on at 6pm on the West Coast.

If you're partial to an East Coast NFL team that isn't the Giants (why do they keep getting prime time games?!!!!!), HI isn't the place for you.

But, relevant to your initial comment, full co-sign. My wife asked me when Duke's game is tonight, and upon hearing it's a 9:30P tip, quickly made it clear she'd be catching the box score tomorrow. Major annoyance.

gam7
11-29-2017, 04:16 PM
Opening line was Duke -10 at -8.5 today, looks like some money coming in on Indiana in this trap game.

I have seen a couple of references to this game as a trap game. It is possible that Duke will have a let-down or be fatigued, but (a) that's not what a trap game is, and (b) even if it were, I don't think we'll see a let-down - it's the first true college road game for most of these kids, and the adrenaline will be flowing.

BandAlum83
11-29-2017, 04:29 PM
My impression of the team having problems early in games doesn't go to the "getting off to a slow start" conclusion. Rather, I see the team coming out as incredibly confident and believing they can do just about anything.

What do I mean? Well, a 40 foot lob for a dunk is a spectacular play, but I imagine very hard to hit a minute or two into the game. The players haven't hit their rhythm yet, etc. It can result in a run out for the other team. Same with an interior pass that threads a needle, or other early in the clock plays.

I general, when we've gone down 12-4, 11-3 and the like I haven't been worried. I just seems the team wants to start off with statements that don't always work.

Let's be a little more workmanlike at the beginning, maybe?

I'd love to see us start today a little more methodical and working the half court offense, getting touches for the team and working for efficiency on offense that allows us to get set up on defense. Let's ease into the game and feel the flow. That will more likely put us on the up side of 11-3 or 12-4 and also shut up the crowd.

Then in the second or third 4-minute block when we have the 8 - 10 point lead we can bring on the spectacular!

Maybe we won't need to make comebacks that way.

davekay1971
11-29-2017, 05:41 PM
What do I mean? Well, a 40 foot lob for a dunk is a spectacular play, but I imagine very hard to hit a minute or two into the game. The players haven't hit their rhythm yet, etc.

Bobby Hurley and Grant Hill agree it's hard to hit. But they're still smirking.

devildeac
11-29-2017, 06:06 PM
Why do we have to keep getting all these super-duper late game times? I've already missed some great Duke basketball this year because I was asleep(once voluntary, once involuntary :)).

I once heard a sports radio guy say that the best place in the world to live if you are a sports guy is Hawaii if you can afford it, or anywhere on the West Coast.

The Superbowl comes on at 1pm on Sunday in Hawaii. It's over, you've finished Devildeac's last beer, cleaned up and in bed by 7 or 8pm and can go into work on Monday refreshed.

You could watch Monday Night Football at 5:30pm on the West Coast. Get off work, hit up happy hour, have dinner, watch the whole game and be in bed by 10pm.

The 9pm Duke-UNC game on a Wed night would come on at 6pm on the West Coast.


Not possible :o.

BD80
11-29-2017, 06:13 PM
Bobby Hurley and Grant Hill agree it's hard to hit. But they're still smirking.

That pass would have landed in the upper deck. Bobby had a bit too much adrenaline flowing. There is still no way Grant should have been able to control that pass, let alone do what he did with it.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-29-2017, 06:24 PM
Bobby Hurley and Grant Hill agree it's hard to hit. But they're still smirking.

Spread comments, blah blah.

Listen to Quants
11-29-2017, 06:42 PM
I remember that Christensen issued a public apology regarding his post game interactions with an official. Incidentally, Jared Jeffries confessed to having fouled Boozer on the rebound and put back. Laughs. I'm a 30+ year Duke fan, but I don't think the fouling on the rebound was Jeffries fouling Boozer. Hooking Boozers arm, hard, on the shot certainly meets my criterion of a foul.

One vivid moment in that game was the Indiana coach's reaction to the (outrageously dumb) foul on Williams shot. Expressive it was.

sagegrouse
11-29-2017, 07:05 PM
I like 2-4. I don't like 1. You guards give the ball to Marvin Bagley.

That is already happening. Point is, Marvin gets the ball on every possession; Grayson doesn't see the ball until well into the second half -- unless he makes a steal or is serving as point guard.

flyingdutchdevil
11-29-2017, 07:15 PM
That is already happening. Point is, Marvin gets the ball on every possession; Grayson doesn't see the ball until well into the second half -- unless he makes a steal or is serving as point guard.

It goes through Marvin cus he’s by far our best player. And it clearly works

richardjackson199
11-29-2017, 07:18 PM
Opening line was Duke -10 at -8.5 today, looks like some money coming in on Indiana in this trap game.

Exactly. Never underestimate the difficulty of true road game, especially how rabid fans can get to upset the #1 team. At Indiana was electric last year when the cheats played there, and lost largely due to the intangibles from the home crowd IMO.

If we want to pick a game to start fast and quiet the crowd, it would be a good time to do it.

Pghdukie
11-29-2017, 08:32 PM
Aside to Troublemaker, I'll take Indiana +8.5. 1st true road game with a packed house jeering Grayson Allen.
Hope I'm wrong !

dukelifer
11-29-2017, 09:11 PM
Exactly. Never underestimate the difficulty of true road game, especially how rabid fans can get to upset the #1 team. At Indiana was electric last year when the cheats played there, and lost largely due to the intangibles from the home crowd IMO.

If we want to pick a game to start fast and quiet the crowd, it would be a good time to do it.

Home crowd and playing Duke brings out the best in any team. Duke will have their hands full. This is where Grayson needs to step up.

jv001
11-29-2017, 09:15 PM
Home crowd and playing Duke brings out the best in any team. Duke will have their hands full. This is where Grayson needs to step up.

Grayson just needs to hit some shots early and that will help quiet the crowd. GoDuke!

riverside6
11-29-2017, 09:23 PM
Live tempo-based stats for Duke/Indiana, starters posted...

https://www.scacchoops.com/duke-at-indiana-basketball-live-stats-11292017

-jk
11-29-2017, 09:32 PM
DBR Chat (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox) is open!

If it gets a bit slow, refresh the page. If you're on a mobile device, you'll need to select "Blue" at the bottom.

As always - please follow the DBR Posting Guidelines.

Let's Go Duke!

-jk

WHOneedsSOX
11-29-2017, 09:36 PM
Do they sell the jerseys they're wearing anywhere? Can't find it on the usual sites (Nike, Fanatics).

jipops
11-29-2017, 09:57 PM
The thread title probably should have been uke vs. Iniana.

WHOneedsSOX
11-29-2017, 10:04 PM
Why has Duke not gone zone yet??

arnie
11-29-2017, 10:05 PM
The thread title probably should have been uke vs. Iniana.

Yea, game’s kind of fun to watch if you hate defense. We are completely lost on that end.

InSpades
11-29-2017, 10:17 PM
I get that we're not good at defense but could we at least run back? There's been like 2 or 3 plays where guys just watched Indiana run towards the basket and we were jogging. We are deep enough that we can work hard on both ends right?

The recent one where Grayson had to foul on the dunk attempt and the lob dunk earlier stand out to me. No excuse for a lack of effort.

Shocked that we haven't seen more zone.

Thankfully our offense has been enough to make up for our defense so far.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-29-2017, 10:26 PM
We aren't down 15! Duke wins by 20!

rsvman
11-29-2017, 10:29 PM
We aren't down 15! Duke wins by 20!

Lol.

I'll take the lead at the half to be honest.

LasVegas
11-29-2017, 10:32 PM
Our inability to shoot wouldn’t hurt so much if we could play some really good D.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-29-2017, 10:33 PM
Our inability to shoot wouldn’t hurt so much if we could play some really good D.

Our FG % is solid. Just not hitting from distance. It is a different era.

rsvman
11-29-2017, 10:33 PM
I think more zone is at least part of the answer. I may want the guys to work the man d on the road just for experience and to get the d to gel, but I believe that more zone would get the principal task accomplished.
You.play.to.win.the.game.

Ultrarunner
11-29-2017, 10:33 PM
Our inability to shoot wouldn’t hurt so much if we could play some really good D.

54.5 percent qualifies as an inability to shoot?

House G
11-29-2017, 10:34 PM
Really good D? How about any D lol. Our MTM defense looks like a layup drill.

-jk
11-29-2017, 10:35 PM
So, in most stat cats we’re barely ahead. Works out - we’re barely ahead. Let’s keep it up!

-jk

Billy Dat
11-29-2017, 10:35 PM
Lol.

I'll take the lead at the half to be honest.

Yeah...up 4 after that half in a tough true road environment - we are in good shape. We got balanced scoring even though the offense wasn’t pretty. If we can recognize that low block double and exploit it, we’ll get easier baskets.

The D, well, at least we can throw both looks out there to disrupt the other team’s momentum. We don’t play either well but the whole is greater than yatta yatta.

I like our 8 man rotation, this game helps us get better, let’s win this thing.

Ultrarunner
11-29-2017, 10:36 PM
So, in most stat cats we’re barely ahead. Works out - we’re barely ahead. Let’s keep it up!

-jk

We're actually nearly on the predicted score at KenPom.

Personally, after being in the stands in Portland, I'll take a small lead at the half.

WHOneedsSOX
11-29-2017, 10:37 PM
Really good D? How about any D lol. Our MTM defense looks like a layup drill.

Duke plays zone the rest of the game and they'll win by 10+. They go man the majority of the half and it'll be a lot closer.

FerryFor50
11-29-2017, 10:39 PM
54.5 percent qualifies as an inability to shoot?

I think he meant from 3, and he's right. Not being much of an outside threat allows teams to clog the lane more. Good thing Duke has a few 7 footers to negate most of that.

Now, they just need to recognize the double sooner and pass to the open man.

devilnfla
11-29-2017, 10:39 PM
Hearing Duval has hurt his foot.

InSpades
11-29-2017, 10:40 PM
We have 42 points on something like 31 possessions... our offense is definitely not the problem here. It would certainly be nice to be shooting better than 2-10 from 3 (and 4 of 6 from the FT line) but... we're doing a lot of things right on offense.

Defense... not so much.

Amazingly they have 9 offensive rebounds to our 8. That shouldn't be happening.

WHOneedsSOX
11-29-2017, 10:41 PM
I think he meant from 3, and he's right. Not being much of an outside threat allows teams to clog the lane more. Good thing Duke has a few 7 footers to negate most of that.

Now, they just need to recognize the double sooner and pass to the open man.

Yeah i imagine most teams will double Bagley and Carter hard and leave Duval wide open.

proelitedota
11-29-2017, 10:41 PM
Hearing Duval has hurt his foot.

It's over.

FerryFor50
11-29-2017, 10:41 PM
Hearing Duval has hurt his foot.

Well he's on the floor now and looks ok.

rsvman
11-29-2017, 10:42 PM
Hearing Duval has hurt his foot.

He's clearly limping at the start of the second half.

WHOneedsSOX
11-29-2017, 10:43 PM
Hearing Duval has hurt his foot.

Looks like he's running funny. Trying not to put pressure on one foot.

FerryFor50
11-29-2017, 10:44 PM
Looks like he's running funny. Trying not to put pressure on one foot.

He just made a nice drive and running shot.

WHOneedsSOX
11-29-2017, 10:45 PM
He just made a nice drive and running shot.

Must not be bad or there's no way Coach K would be letting him play a game in November.

FerryFor50
11-29-2017, 10:47 PM
Must not be bad or there's no way Coach K would be letting him play a game in November.

Given Duke's history with foot issues and the fact that IU isn't a team you necessarily need Duval to beat, I think he's fine.

rsvman
11-29-2017, 10:47 PM
We should go zone but I really think K wants them to improve the man via tough road experience.

FerryFor50
11-29-2017, 10:48 PM
We should go zone but I really think K wants them to improve the man via tough road experience.

Perhaps. Or, K is just being stubborn. :-P

WHOneedsSOX
11-29-2017, 10:52 PM
We should go zone but I really think K wants them to improve the man via tough road experience.

Probably right. Absolutely no reason Duke should be in man in this game.

WHOneedsSOX
11-29-2017, 10:54 PM
Duval limping again after that drive.

rsvman
11-29-2017, 10:56 PM
Duval limping again after that drive.

Yeah. Not good. I hope it's minor.

WHOneedsSOX
11-29-2017, 11:01 PM
What I dislike about the refs is if they're going to call that a foul then it should've been called a second earlier when it wasn't a shooting foul. He clearly reached and had the arm much earlier.

rsvman
11-29-2017, 11:02 PM
We were up 52-42 but since then our offense has been anemic.

LasVegas
11-29-2017, 11:03 PM
54.5 percent qualifies as an inability to shoot?

I guess I should of clarified I was talking about threes. I just assumed people would pick up on that and not assume I was a total idiot.

WHOneedsSOX
11-29-2017, 11:03 PM
Stay in man and Duke loses

jipops
11-29-2017, 11:07 PM
This team looks completely spent. No life on either end. And totally understandable given the demanding schedule.

Still...the man d is awful.

Hauerwas
11-29-2017, 11:07 PM
An anemic IU team has 61 points with over 12 to go. I’m amazed at the inibility to actually play defense.?this is a team that lost going away to Indiana St at home. Cmon.

rsvman
11-29-2017, 11:07 PM
They have outscored us 19-7 since we took the 10-point lead.

I thunk we can solve the problem by going zone. I hope Coach K doesn't try to teach them a lesson by letting them lose in the man D.

Billy Dat
11-29-2017, 11:08 PM
We were up 52-42 but since then our offense has been anemic.

IU defense is tough!

Let’s see if we can punch back right now.

NYBri
11-29-2017, 11:09 PM
Something i’ve Gotten used to watching Duke Basketball over the decades. They huddle after fouls, they run off the court at timeouts, they help each other up, etc.

Is it me, or does this team just not do those things?

rsvman
11-29-2017, 11:15 PM
Something i’ve Gotten used to watching Duke Basketball over the decades. They huddle after fouls, they run off the court at timeouts, they help each other up, etc.

Is it me, or does this team just not do those things?

It's mostly you.

WHOneedsSOX
11-29-2017, 11:16 PM
Trent has a space ship tattoo on his leg lol

Billy Dat
11-29-2017, 11:18 PM
It’s getting intense, we are going to need to play hard, smart and tough to get a W. The home court mojo is on their side.

Skydog
11-29-2017, 11:20 PM
We need to be getting the ball to Bagley more. They can’t defend him once he gets possession.

indy1duke
11-29-2017, 11:21 PM
Who invited these guys to ref this game? The latest is that phantom call on Bagley.

WHOneedsSOX
11-29-2017, 11:21 PM
This arena and crowd are really awesome.

duke96
11-29-2017, 11:21 PM
Go Bolden!

Skydog
11-29-2017, 11:22 PM
Wow - good defense by Bolden.

House G
11-29-2017, 11:23 PM
All day.

Skydog
11-29-2017, 11:24 PM
But Duval blows the 2 v 1. Seemed selfish on that play.

WHOneedsSOX
11-29-2017, 11:24 PM
But Duval blows the 2 v 1. Seemed selfish on that play.

Bad angle. Was 3-4 feet away from Trent. Too close to make a pass. Probably would've scored if he didn't exaggerate the contact though.

FerryFor50
11-29-2017, 11:25 PM
But Duval blows the 2 v 1. Seemed selfish on that play.

I think he just lost the ball. He was looking to pass.

Kjeffrey
11-29-2017, 11:26 PM
I guess Davis didn't want to flex his muscles on that play.

curtis325
11-29-2017, 11:26 PM
My opinion: This is a great game. Not great playing always, but fun to watch.

Kjeffrey
11-29-2017, 11:27 PM
I think he just lost the ball. He was looking to pass.

Hard to tell but I think Bilas said the same thing as you.

WHOneedsSOX
11-29-2017, 11:28 PM
Can Duke play 5:09 of brain fart free basketball?

Kjeffrey
11-29-2017, 11:31 PM
So Davis is allowed to back defenders down and push them around but the refs blow the whistle on Duke?

curtis325
11-29-2017, 11:31 PM
Hack a Deron.

WHOneedsSOX
11-29-2017, 11:32 PM
So Davis is allowed to back defenders now and push them around but the refs blow the whistle on Duke?

Kind of how basketball always has been. Offensive player always gets a lot more leeway.

Why doesn't Duke double? Only #30 can shoot.

House G
11-29-2017, 11:32 PM
Carter can’t play D without putting his hands on the other guy—looks like Al Franken out there.

Mabdul Doobakus
11-29-2017, 11:33 PM
Foul. Foul. Foulfoulfoul. Free throws. Foulfoullyfoul. That's my impression of this half.

WHOneedsSOX
11-29-2017, 11:33 PM
Carter can’t play D without putting his hands on the other guy—looks like Al Franken out there.

And Bagley reaches down every time. Just have to put your hands up and if they make it they make it.

LasVegas
11-29-2017, 11:34 PM
Big 3 by Grayson.

Kjeffrey
11-29-2017, 11:34 PM
Kind of how basketball always has been. Reestablished always gets a lot more leeway.

Why doesn't Duke double? Only #30 can shoot.

IU seems to have good passers so maybe Duke coaches think they will pass out of double teams?

sbroc012
11-29-2017, 11:34 PM
You can't guard Davis the way they are calling this. He's initiating the contact so it should not be called a foul.

jipops
11-29-2017, 11:35 PM
Foul. Foul. Foulfoulfoul. Free throws. Foulfoullyfoul. That's my impression of this half.

College ball is almost unwatchable sometimes.

WHOneedsSOX
11-29-2017, 11:35 PM
IU seems to have good passers so maybe Duke coaches think they will pass out of double teams?

Maybe but they never even tried. It's clear no one can guard that guy in the post.

rsvman
11-29-2017, 11:36 PM
Why didn't they call the walk?

duke96
11-29-2017, 11:37 PM
Bagley is a respectable player

curtis325
11-29-2017, 11:41 PM
Layup drills are very tiring.

YmoBeThere
11-29-2017, 11:42 PM
Well, we are down to our 8 man rotation.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-29-2017, 11:44 PM
Our close out game is dang good