PDA

View Full Version : Progress Towards Graduation - Should We Care?



cascadedevil
11-28-2017, 08:43 AM
Just wondering if any of Duke's 1 and dones have ever progressed towards graduation? If not, do we expect they now have no interest in ever obtaining a degree even at the point when they first commit out of high school? Part of what always made Duke special was that we were able to compete at the highest level while not breaking NCAA rules, with high character players (mostly) and with players who would go to class (mostly) and work towards their degree. As a 30 year rabid Duke fan, and alum, I still think we do almost all of this, and my fanaticism is not diminished. Luol Deng, Austin Rivers and Jabari Parker seemed different to me as there was a reasonable belief they would want to work towards Duke diplomas. However, I do wonder how much I should care about whether the players of the past 5 years have the same intention. I loved watching Quin Cook lead the last national championship team, but I may be willing to trade that national championship for having had players who fully intended to be students working towards a degree .... maybe .... kind of .... possibly .... hmm that is hard. Thoughts?

dukelifer
11-28-2017, 08:52 AM
Just wondering if any of Duke's 1 and dones have ever progressed towards graduation? If not, do we expect they now have no interest in ever obtaining a degree even at the point when they first commit out of high school? Part of what always made Duke special was that we were able to compete at the highest level while not breaking NCAA rules, with high character players (mostly) and with players who would go to class (mostly) and work towards their degree. As a 30 year rabid Duke fan, and alum, I still think we do almost all of this, and my fanaticism is not diminished. Luol Deng, Austin Rivers and Jabari Parker seemed different to me as there was a reasonable belief they would want to work towards Duke diplomas. However, I do wonder how much I should care about whether the players of the past 5 years have the same intention. I loved watching Quin Cook lead the last national championship team, but I may be willing to trade that national championship for having had players who fully intended to be students working towards a degree ... maybe ... kind of ... possibly ... hmm that is hard. Thoughts?
Several thoughts. I am pretty sure K would like 4 year players- but these are different times. K also wants to influence the best players. If a kid is only going to be in school for a year- he believes he and Duke has a lot to offer him. This is probably only going to last as long as K is coach. After that- it is unclear what will happen to the program. My guess is that the NBA will change their rules and perhaps it will all be moot.

UrinalCake
11-28-2017, 08:56 AM
I think Okafor said he wanted to get his degree, and he came back one summer to take classes. Don't know if he has continued since then. But if you're only taking a couple classes every summer, it would take a long time to get your degree. And Duke isn't really set up to do online classes like some other schools are (I mean this as a serious statement, not as a dig at anyone; there are legitimate online programs for people to get their degrees while working but Duke is more of a residential campus). Gerald Henderson eventually got his degree after several years in the league, but he played for three seasons at Duke so he only had one more year of classes to make up.

I've come to grips with the fact that our OAD players aren't here to earn their degree. They're only in college because they are forced to be, and yes I know they could go to Europe or the D-league if they wanted but realistically college is the only viable option. As long as they go to class, fulfill their minimum requirements, and genuinely make an effort to actually learn something while they're here, then I don't have a problem with it. And Coach K does seem to recruit guys who fit that mold. They see Duke as an opportunity to be a real college student, even if it's only for a year, and they seem to embrace the larger community.

I would definitely be in favor of allowing high school players to go straight to the pros, but until that happens we are pretty much all in on the OAD model at least until K retires.

Kfanarmy
11-28-2017, 09:17 AM
Just wondering if any of Duke's 1 and dones have ever progressed towards graduation? If not, do we expect they now have no interest in ever obtaining a degree even at the point when they first commit out of high school? Part of what always made Duke special was that we were able to compete at the highest level while not breaking NCAA rules, with high character players (mostly) and with players who would go to class (mostly) and work towards their degree. As a 30 year rabid Duke fan, and alum, I still think we do almost all of this, and my fanaticism is not diminished. Luol Deng, Austin Rivers and Jabari Parker seemed different to me as there was a reasonable belief they would want to work towards Duke diplomas. However, I do wonder how much I should care about whether the players of the past 5 years have the same intention. I loved watching Quin Cook lead the last national championship team, but I may be willing to trade that national championship for having had players who fully intended to be students working towards a degree ... maybe ... kind of ... possibly ... hmm that is hard. Thoughts?

I think every university with scholarship players should care...in the sense that if a scholarship athlete leaves early, in good standing, and wants to return, they should be encouraged / welcomed with open arms to complete their degrees. Life happens: injury, financial missteps, etc.

I also believe, as part of the university's end of the scholarship athlete bargain, every potential professional athlete ought to get a financial management class as part of their scheduled freshman curriculum...not some one or two hour orientation, but a scheduled class that addresses budgeting, investing, agents, etc.

flyingdutchdevil
11-28-2017, 09:20 AM
I think every university with scholarship players should care...in the sense that if a scholarship athlete leaves early, in good standing, and wants to return, they should be encouraged / welcomed with open arms to complete their degrees. Life happens: injury, financial missteps, etc.

I also believe, as part of the university's end of the scholarship athlete bargain, every potential professional athlete ought to get a financial management class as part of their scheduled freshman curriculum...not some one or two hour orientation, but a scheduled class that addresses budgeting, investing, agents, etc.

I would love this. I think it's a great idea. But it also signals that basketball student athletes are here because it's a stepping stone to the NBA. Also, creating a class just for athletes sounds awfully UNC-ish...

johnb
11-28-2017, 09:35 AM
Just wondering if any of Duke's 1 and dones have ever progressed towards graduation? If not, do we expect they now have no interest in ever obtaining a degree even at the point when they first commit out of high school? Part of what always made Duke special was that we were able to compete at the highest level while not breaking NCAA rules, with high character players (mostly) and with players who would go to class (mostly) and work towards their degree. As a 30 year rabid Duke fan, and alum, I still think we do almost all of this, and my fanaticism is not diminished. Luol Deng, Austin Rivers and Jabari Parker seemed different to me as there was a reasonable belief they would want to work towards Duke diplomas. However, I do wonder how much I should care about whether the players of the past 5 years have the same intention. I loved watching Quin Cook lead the last national championship team, but I may be willing to trade that national championship for having had players who fully intended to be students working towards a degree ... maybe ... kind of ... possibly ... hmm that is hard. Thoughts?

Every Duke recruit over the past five years has gone to class, avoided embarrassments, and been a great representative for Duke. If the NBA weren't offering fantasy money to top 30 picks (and much less or nothing to players who get injured), we wouldn't have any OAD's. Ie, our current guys are very much like our great players from the '80's and '90's: from among elite basketball talent, they are some of the absolute best students available. Do they go back for their last 3(!) years of college while maintaining a full time job? No. But who would? I suppose the occasional guy might be interested in coaching or law school or something, but just for the maturational experience?

In some way, these current players are like the current generation of Duke undergrads. Hyperfocused on excellence in one or two areas--which is the way most of the current undergrads get accepted. Back in the day, most of Duke's undergrads were more generally excellent. Nowadays, general excellence gets you a pat on the head from your grandma, but it probably won't get you accepted to Duke.

Not only does the risk/reward for MB3 absolutely favor going pro early, it makes sense for him to look for the absolute best competition. A year (maybe 2) of seasoning in college, and he's completely ready for the NBA, at least from a basketball perspective,

DukieInKansas
11-28-2017, 09:47 AM
I think every university with scholarship players should care...in the sense that if a scholarship athlete leaves early, in good standing, and wants to return, they should be encouraged / welcomed with open arms to complete their degrees. Life happens: injury, financial missteps, etc.

I also believe, as part of the university's end of the scholarship athlete bargain, every potential professional athlete ought to get a financial management class as part of their scheduled freshman curriculum...not some one or two hour orientation, but a scheduled class that addresses budgeting, investing, agents, etc.

I think that class should be mandatory for every student - or at least strongly encouraged.

I believe Kyrie has come back for several summers but is not taking a "break" as USA basketball and other commitments are taking too much time in the summer. I read the article quite a while ago but I believe he intends to finish his degree when those commitments are over.

CrazyNotCrazie
11-28-2017, 10:08 AM
I think that class should be mandatory for every student - or at least strongly encouraged.

I believe Kyrie has come back for several summers but is not taking a "break" as USA basketball and other commitments are taking too much time in the summer. I read the article quite a while ago but I believe he intends to finish his degree when those commitments are over.

I believe the NBA has some financial planning classes for drafted players, though it would be preferable to start that education as early as possible. As you noted, a similar class for non-athletes would also be very useful.

I had heard that Kyrie planned to come back. Fortunately/unfortunately for him, being on a good team has made that more difficult - it is a lot easier to come back for summer school when your season ends in April than if it ends in June. As others have noted, finishing a degree after only one year full time in school is not easy. Finishing after three years is fairly simple. Finishing after two is challenging but doable.

Duke's emphasis on having athletes who have at least a passing interest in academics was one of the main reasons I became a fan as a kid, and remained a fan throughout my time there and beyond. Some are fewer standard deviations from the norm than others, but Duke has historically been well ahead of most other schools on this. I think the one-and-done era has shifted the emphasis away from this a bit, but I was oddly happy to see a few guys benched earlier in the season for skipping class as it shows that we continue to care. Though who knows what the penalty would have been if they skipped class the day before the final four...

devildeac
11-28-2017, 10:21 AM
Every Duke recruit over the past five years has gone to class, avoided embarrassments, and been a great representative for Duke. If the NBA weren't offering fantasy money to top 30 picks (and much less or nothing to players who get injured), we wouldn't have any OAD's. Ie, our current guys are very much like our great players from the '80's and '90's: from among elite basketball talent, they are some of the absolute best students available. Do they go back for their last 3(!) years of college while maintaining a full time job? No. But who would? I suppose the occasional guy might be interested in coaching or law school or something, but just for the maturational experience?

In some way, these current players are like the current generation of Duke undergrads. Hyperfocused on excellence in one or two areas--which is the way most of the current undergrads get accepted. Back in the day, most of Duke's undergrads were more generally excellent. Nowadays, general excellence gets you a pat on the head from your grandma, but it probably won't get you accepted to Duke.

Not only does the risk/reward for MB3 absolutely favor going pro early, it makes sense for him to look for the absolute best competition. A year (maybe 2) of seasoning in college, and he's completely ready for the NBA, at least from a basketball perspective,

And, even with rampant, blatant cheating, another nearby school still managed to finish last in the acc in overall, MBB and FB graduation rates (or whatever stat it was that Jim Sumner linked a couple weeks ago in which Duke was ranked so highly both in the acc and nationally). Think about it. They cheat/ed to win on the court/field but still can't cheat well enough to achieve high APR/GPA/GPR/academic standards. :mad:

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-28-2017, 10:26 AM
As for "should we care," well, that's up to you. I don't believe in the idea that there is a set of rules to follow to be a real fan.

Do you care about players graduating? If so, you can feel marginally better about Duke OADs than most others.

kshepinthehouse
11-28-2017, 10:39 AM
As for "should we care," well, that's up to you. I don't believe in the idea that there is a set of rules to follow to be a real fan.

Do you care about players graduating? If so, you can feel marginally better about Duke OADs than most others.

I've done some research on this topic, not a lot I will admit. I think I'm going to get roasted probably but aren't college degrees becoming less and less valuable. For example, let's say you would love to major in business. Your parents give you a choice:

A. They will give you $300,000 to open up your own business right out of high school and provide you with support.

B. They will give $300,00 towards a Duke business degree (I may be way off with my numbers).

Isn't A definitely a viable option if not a better one?

These kids are getting multi millions of dollars, I'm not sure they need a Duke degree. I agree with others that some financing and budget education falls definitely in line with what they most require.

I'm sure their summers are spent working out and getting ready for the upcoming season so I would find it mighty hard to get a degree in between seasons. I do agree that graduating college is a great personal achievement and one can feel a sense of accomplishment in getting that degree, but I am starting to lean towards the fact that a degree is not for everyone, and I am a teacher :)

CDu
11-28-2017, 10:51 AM
I'm sure their summers are spent working out and getting ready for the upcoming season so I would find it mighty hard to get a degree in between seasons. I do agree that graduating college is a great personal achievement and one can feel a sense of accomplishment in getting that degree, but I am starting to lean towards the fact that a degree is not for everyone, and I am a teacher :)

I do agree that a degree is not for everyone. But the level of marginal benefit of a degree varies greatly by one's professional interests and one's means (relative to their career interest). If you want to be an actor, the marginal benefit of a degree in fine arts is debatable. If you want to be a doctor, the marginal benefit of a degree is not debatable. Similarly, a degree in business may not be critical to one's opportunities if they are already rich. But it would have much more marginal benefit to someone without much money (in that it would provide an opportunity to a high-paying job, provide contacts, etc.).

For one-and-dones, the marginal benefit of a degree is on average pretty low. Not exclusively so, but probably on average. But one-and-dones represent a very small minority of the athlete population at colleges.

Wander
11-28-2017, 11:03 AM
I would love this. I think it's a great idea. But it also signals that basketball student athletes are here because it's a stepping stone to the NBA. Also, creating a class just for athletes sounds awfully UNC-ish...

I don't think it'd be wrong if you could guarantee they were real classes. My solution to all this is to make Sports a major. It would be treated like any other major, where athletes would need to take gen ed classes (Trinity College had a "matrix" of requirements you had to fill out when I was there, not sure if that is still the case), and non-athletes could take Sports classes. But, there would be some Sports classes that realistically only athletes would take, just like there are some Physics classes that realistically only Physics majors take. To me, this would keep academic integrity intact while pragmatically recognizing that a lot of scholarship athletes are at school primarily to hone their craft.

RPS
11-28-2017, 11:15 AM
I don't think it'd be wrong if you could guarantee they were real classes. My solution to all this is to make Sports a major. It would be treated like any other major, where athletes would need to take gen ed classes (Trinity College had a "matrix" of requirements you had to fill out when I was there, not sure if that is still the case), and non-athletes could take Sports classes. But, there would be some Sports classes that realistically only athletes would take, just like there are some Physics classes that realistically only Physics majors take. To me, this would keep academic integrity intact while pragmatically recognizing that a lot of scholarship athletes are at school primarily to hone their craft.One of my sons played football at Cal. Every Cal player (all sports) was strongly encouraged to take a one unit personal financial management class, open to all students, that focused on the matters suggested (except for agents and agent selection). My son took it and it was a worthwhile endeavor.

MCFinARL
11-28-2017, 11:38 AM
I had heard that Kyrie planned to come back. Fortunately/unfortunately for him, being on a good team has made that more difficult - it is a lot easier to come back for summer school when your season ends in April than if it ends in June. As others have noted, finishing a degree after only one year full time in school is not easy. Finishing after three years is fairly simple. Finishing after two is challenging but doable.



Yes, although I believe Kyrie has two years' worth of credits, or close to it. He entered Duke with a semester's worth of AP credits (can't source this but know it was widely reported at the time--"good basketball player is actually smart" stories, like the extensive coverage of recruits like Wendell Carter and Mo Bamba considering Harvard), and he came back to Duke for the first semester after the draft because of the basketball strike. So he could manage it eventually.

However, as reported in the Chronicle (http://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2016/07/nba-star-kyrie-irving-changes-course-puts-duke-degree-on-hold-despite-previous-commitment) last year and noted by other posters, he has decided to change his original plan to get his degree within five years after leaving school, something he agreed with his dad to try to do. Now he says he will look to finish it after his NBA career is over.

FadedTackyShirt
11-28-2017, 11:55 AM
Was disgusted by the Duke alumna who sent the snotty email to Brand. Realize he wasn’t OAD, but he had nothing left to prove after having been injured as a freshman. Would have been silly to return.

Pro careers are too short and too lucrative to focus on school while their pro playing career window is still viable. Would prefer that all Duke athletes eventually earn degrees, but it’s their life. Much respect to Dun for finishing up his Duke degree early in his NBA career. Also respect wannabe Dun, Casey Jacobsen, who recently returned to Stanford to finish his degree. Was a long term pro, but more internationally than in the NBA.

Lar77
11-28-2017, 01:23 PM
Some observations:


Agree with OP that a financial management class would be worthwhile (should be required) for everyone in the student population, but especially for soon-to-be professional athletes.
It gets progressively tougher to get a degree after years in the workplace for a number of reasons.
The marginal benefit of a degree to someone who has earned multiple millions, if not hundreds of millions, is clearly not economic, but may have significant non-economic benefits to a particular person.
Duke, (like many other schools) is not particularly well-suited to a non full time residential student. This needs to change somewhat, although the benefit of college (especially undergraduate) goes well beyond the in-class experience.


As a fan, I would like to see schools do a better job of educationally benefiting the OADs or other athletes aspiring to become professional athletes, but that is an undertaking that would take many stakeholders coming together and not something solved on a message board.

SupaDave
11-28-2017, 06:50 PM
There have been a few Duke players that have stayed two or more years and still didn't earn their degree.

Fact of the matter is that the pool is really too young for all of this. Basically ALL of Duke's one and dones are still in the beginning stages of their careers.

However, the only real early departure to have gotten his degree is Gerald Henderson - so there's precedent. And he did it while playing.

Some are well into their careers without a degree - as Maggette is a commentator now (also renowned for his camps and reading program with the Clippers)

Notable: Jabari and Deng are renowned for their contributions to education and community.

One thing I do know: Carter Jr. will get his degree.

Supa "they might not get a degree but they certainly get an education - one that continues for life" Dave

Side note: I'm sure many of us know people with degrees that are not utilized...

tbyers11
11-28-2017, 07:15 PM
There have been a few Duke players that have stayed two or more years and still didn't earn their degree.

Fact of the matter is that the pool is really too young for all of this. Basically ALL of Duke's one and dones are still in the beginning stages of their careers.

However, the only real early departure to have gotten his degree is Gerald Henderson - so there's precedent. And he did it while playing.

Some are well into their careers without a degree - as Maggette is a commentator now (also renowned for his camps and reading program with the Clippers)

Notable: Jabari and Deng are renowned for their contributions to education and community.

One thing I do know: Carter Jr. will get his degree.

Supa "they might not get a degree but they certainly get an education - one that continues for life" Dave

Side note: I'm sure many of us know people with degrees that are not don't utilized...

Didn't Mike Dunleavy, who like Gerald played 3 years, also came back and finish his degree?

subzero02
11-28-2017, 08:21 PM
Didn't Mike Dunleavy, who like Gerald played 3 years, also came back and finish his degree?

Dunleavy, Jwill and Boozer were part of the first recruiting class that enrolled in courses the same summer as their high school graduation. This allowed them, if they continued to take courses during subsequent summers, to complete 4 years worth of courses in 3 years. Jwill enrolled at Duke the summer of 1999 and graduated in 2002. I assume Dunleavy, who was a very good student, followed a similar path.

CDu
11-28-2017, 08:28 PM
Dunleavy, Jwill and Boozer were part of the first recruiting class that enrolled in courses the same summer as their high school graduation. This allowed them, if they continued to take courses during subsequent summers, to complete 4 years worth of courses in 3 years. Jwill enrolled at Duke the summer of 1999 and graduated in 2002. I assume Dunleavy, who was a very good student, followed a similar path.

Nope. Dunleavy finished up in 2005.

CrazyNotCrazie
11-28-2017, 10:14 PM
Dunleavy, Jwill and Boozer were part of the first recruiting class that enrolled in courses the same summer as their high school graduation. This allowed them, if they continued to take courses during subsequent summers, to complete 4 years worth of courses in 3 years. Jwill enrolled at Duke the summer of 1999 and graduated in 2002. I assume Dunleavy, who was a very good student, followed a similar path.

If I recall, JWill's plan from day one was to graduate in three years. Dunleavy didn't come in planning to leave early and I believe had to be talked into it when it became clear that he would be drafted very early. For many of the players, taking the classes before freshman year is more to allow them to a) acclimate to college and b) take a lighter load during the year than to help them graduate early.

I thought Grayson set things up to graduate in 3 so I'm not sure if he is now in grad school or just taking a light load.

SupaDave
11-29-2017, 12:09 AM
If I recall, JWill's plan from day one was to graduate in three years. Dunleavy didn't come in planning to leave early and I believe had to be talked into it when it became clear that he would be drafted very early. For many of the players, taking the classes before freshman year is more to allow them to a) acclimate to college and b) take a lighter load during the year than to help them graduate early.

I thought Grayson set things up to graduate in 3 so I'm not sure if he is now in grad school or just taking a light load.

Grayson is a grad student indeed.

And yep - K developed the 3 year plan long ago. Not many have needed it (players like Hood and Grayson are the recent exception) - but it still laid the blueprint for getting proper course loads to players who may only be in town for one year.

Bluedog
11-29-2017, 08:42 AM
Yes, although I believe Kyrie has two years' worth of credits, or close to it. He entered Duke with a semester's worth of AP credits (can't source this but know it was widely reported at the time--"good basketball player is actually smart" stories, like the extensive coverage of recruits like Wendell Carter and Mo Bamba considering Harvard), and he came back to Duke for the first semester after the draft because of the basketball strike. So he could manage it eventually.

Duke (Trinity) caps the number of AP credits a student can count towards the required 34 credits at a whopping TWO for those that graduate in 8 semesters. Otherwise, a huge percentage of Duke students would graduate early as many come with a ton of AP credits. (They do allow for slightly more those looking to graduate faster....) So, Kyrie may have had AP coursework, but it can only take the place of 2 classes.

On the larger issue, I somewhat care, but realize it's simply based on the circumstances and don't begrudge them. It's also such a tiny percentage of the athlete population that you can't cater a system to those few exceptions. The vast vast vast majority of student athletes in college (and at Duke) will not go pro in one year and that's the case even in basketball. But certainly it ain't like it used to be for Duke basketball as the landscape for highly touted recruits has simply changed.

cascadedevil
11-29-2017, 12:49 PM
Excellent points by many. Interesting to see how other members of the Duke family feel about this. The posts have helped me clarify my own thoughts about this, and it appears that not many agree with me (which may be that I am still holding on to the 1980s too much).

- For the past 30 years Duke basketball has been tightly connected to the overall image and marketing of the school.
- Part of that image was fed by Dick Vitale comments about the SAT scores of the Cameron Crazies, and comments by Jay Bilas that his GPA was higher than his scoring average. A focus on academics was always part of what made Duke Basketball "special". The idea being that the players were not just entertainers for the students, but also young people who were interested in the intellectual engagement offered by the school (Christian Laettner's comments about the UNLV - Duke image presentation in the media not withstanding).
- I do not begrudge any athlete for going pro as quickly as they can, just as I do not hold it against any computer science major who can leave to start a billion dollar company.
- However, I do have reservations about what it does to the "specialness" of Duke when we recruit players who increasingly are not interested in ever getting a degree. Coach K can make them attend some classes for the year. Maybe they even want to do that. But is that really what the academic experience at Duke is intended for? Are we really now just focusing on "compliance" instead of the spirit of what Duke has been about.
- The possibility of Duke degrees have been incredibly important to many of the elite basketball recruits we have had (Elton Brand, Jason Williams, Shane Battier, Mike Dunleavy, Gerald Henderson, Kyrie Irving, Jahill Okafor), even those who may not be actively pursuing that option now.
- However, it feels like something has changed in the past few years. It now seems that increasingly our elite recruits do not talk about the desire to get a degree, but instead just to "enjoy" the 1 year they will stay in Durham. That is a big change. I love watching these elite players on the court, and they uniformly seem like fantastic young people to me. They may actually want to get degrees and just do not talk about it. But that change is impacting Duke's image. It may be a change most Duke fans are ok with, but it is one I wish we could reverse. I still want Duke to be that special place where true student athletes compete at the highest levels against programs who do not hold themselves to the same standards. It makes the winning so much sweeter.

flyingdutchdevil
11-29-2017, 01:02 PM
Excellent points by many. Interesting to see how other members of the Duke family feel about this. The posts have helped me clarify my own thoughts about this, and it appears that not many agree with me (which may be that I am still holding on to the 1980s too much).

- For the past 30 years Duke basketball has been tightly connected to the overall image and marketing of the school.
- Part of that image was fed by Dick Vitale comments about the SAT scores of the Cameron Crazies, and comments by Jay Bilas that his GPA was higher than his scoring average. A focus on academics was always part of what made Duke Basketball "special". The idea being that the players were not just entertainers for the students, but also young people who were interested in the intellectual engagement offered by the school (Christian Laettner's comments about the UNLV - Duke image presentation in the media not withstanding).
- I do not begrudge any athlete for going pro as quickly as they can, just as I do not hold it against any computer science major who can leave to start a billion dollar company.
- However, I do have reservations about what it does to the "specialness" of Duke when we recruit players who increasingly are not interested in ever getting a degree. Coach K can make them attend some classes for the year. Maybe they even want to do that. But is that really what the academic experience at Duke is intended for? Are we really now just focusing on "compliance" instead of the spirit of what Duke has been about.
- The possibility of Duke degrees have been incredibly important to many of the elite basketball recruits we have had (Elton Brand, Jason Williams, Shane Battier, Mike Dunleavy, Gerald Henderson, Kyrie Irving, Jahill Okafor), even those who may not be actively pursuing that option now.
- However, it feels like something has changed in the past few years. It now seems that increasingly our elite recruits do not talk about the desire to get a degree, but instead just to "enjoy" the 1 year they will stay in Durham. That is a big change. I love watching these elite players on the court, and they uniformly seem like fantastic young people to me. They may actually want to get degrees and just do not talk about it. But that change is impacting Duke's image. It may be a change most Duke fans are ok with, but it is one I wish we could reverse. I still want Duke to be that special place where true student athletes compete at the highest levels against programs who do not hold themselves to the same standards. It makes the winning so much sweeter.

I do not disagree with anything you have said with the exception of the last point. I don't think it's fair to say that Duval, Bagley, and Trent haven't expressed interest in the academics because they haven't publicly said so (and, for the record, Carter has. The dude was deciding between Duke and Harvard). I don't think anything has changed in the last few years with regards to our recruits other than we get more of them.

But I will say this: academics at Duke aren't as big of a pulling factor for OADs compared to the 4-year recruits. Why Duke is getting OADs, IMO, has little to do with academics and more to do with facilities, NBA effectiveness, and our incredible coaching staff. Where this will hurt Duke basketball is when that incredible coaching staff retires.

I have come to accept that Duke is a stepping stone for the NBA for a ton of OADs. I don't mind it as long as the players go to class and carry themselves well. The reason is that Duke is able to get more money, potentially better non-athlete academic students (who want a university that excels at academics and sports), and more exposure. I love that.

Kfanarmy
11-29-2017, 02:22 PM
I would love this. I think it's a great idea. But it also signals that basketball student athletes are here because it's a stepping stone to the NBA. Also, creating a class just for athletes sounds awfully UNC-ish...

You have a point, but done well, I think it could be a better alternative than most frosh required basic math classes...for all of the student population.