This Week in the ACC: 11/27-12/3

[pfrduke]

Fun feast week for the ACC - Notre Dame and Duke had thrilling tournament wins, Virginia decided to take the thrill out of things and just dominated in Brooklyn, NC State beat Arizona (and then lost to Northern Iowa - so, they were State), and the Tar Heels had the worst shooting performance in program history! Can't really ask for more. Next up is the ACC/B1G, and the ACC is favored in 6 of the first 7 games and 8 overall, so they need to ,get work done early, but it looks like it lines up as a great opportunity for an ACC win. The ACC has the 4 largest favorites (per Pomeroy) in UVA, Duke, UNC, and Va Tech, and collectively the ACC's 8 favorites have an average 5.6 point margin while the Big Ten's favorites are picked to win by an average of just 3.5.

Monday
[54]Syracuse (-1) hosts [37]Maryland (7:00, ESPN2)
[3]Virginia (-9) hosts [31]Wisconsin (9:00, ESPN2)

Tuesday
[42]Florida State (-4) at [116]Rutgers (7:00, ESPNU)
[63]Georgia Tech (-1) hosts [50]Northwestern (7:00, ESPN2)
[155]Pittsburgh (-8) hosts [246]High Point (7:00, ACCNE)
[24]Louisville (+6) at [12]Purdue (8:00, ESPN)
[80]Wake Forest (-5) hosts [102]Illinois (9:00, ESPNU)
[45]Virginia Tech (-7) hosts [66]Iowa (9:00, ESPN2)

Wednesday
[93]NC State (+4) hosts [36]Penn State (7:15, ESPNU)
[51]Clemson (+1) at [69]Ohio State (7:15, ESPN2)
[13]North Carolina (-9) hosts [41]Michigan (7:30, ESPN)
[20]Miami (+3) at [23]Minnesota (9:15, ESPN2)
[91]Boston College (+2) at [107]Nebraska (9:15, ESPNU)
[7]Duke (-9) at [77]Indiana (9:30, ESPN)

Thursday
[11]Notre Dame (+5) at [6]Michigan State (7:00, ESPN)

Friday
[155]Pittsburgh (-5) vs. [247]Duquesne in Pittsburgh (7:00)
[63]Georgia Tech (-24) hosts [340] Grambling (7:30, ACCNE)
[13]North Carolina (-11) vs. [85]Davidson in Charlotte (8:00, ESPN2)

Saturday
[3]Virginia (-22) hosts [209]Lehigh (12:00, ACCNE)
[93]NC State (-26) hosts [346]South Carolina State (12:00, ACCNE)
[45]Virginia Tech (+2) at [56]Mississippi (2:00, SECN)
[7]Duke (-20) hosts [130]South Dakota (3:30, ESPN2)
[80]Wake Forest (-10) hosts [181]Richmond (4:00, ACCNE)
[54]Syracuse (+10) vs. [1]Kansas in Miami (5:30, ESPN)
[91]Boston College (-12) at [332]Hartford (7:00, ESPN3)
[20]Miami (-12) vs. [119]Princeton in Miami (8:00, ESPNU)

Sunday
[11]Notre Dame (-28) hosts [326]St. Francis (NY) (2:00, ACCNE)
[13]North Carolina (-19) hosts [133]Tulane (2:00, ESPN2)
[51]Clemson (-9) hosts [109]UNC Asheville (3:00, ACCNE)
[24]Louisville (-4) hosts [25]Seton Hall (4:00, ESPN2)
[63]Georgia Tech (+1) hosts [34]Tennessee (6:00, ESPNU)

ACC Non-Conference Record: 71-16*
ACC v. Power 6: 10-7
America East: 1-0
American Athletic: 1-2
Atlantic 10: 7-1
Atlantic Sun: 2-0
Big East: 1-1
Big 12: 1-2
Big Sky: 1-1
Big South: 3-1
Big Ten: 1-2
Big West: 1-0
Colonial: 2-0
Horizon: 2-0
Ivy: 1-0
MAAC: 1-0
MAC: 3-0
MEAC: 4-0
MVC: 1-2
MWC: 1-0
NEC: 6-0
OVC: 2-0
Pac 12: 3-1
Patriot: 4-1
SEC: 4-1
Southern: 7-0
Southland: 1-0
Summit: 1-0
Sun Belt: 1-1
SWAC: 3-0
WAC: 3-0
WCC: 1-0
Non-D1: 1-0

*for comparison purposes, the Big 12 has 8 losses, the Big East has 13, the SEC has 17, the Big Ten has 19, and the Pac-12 has 22.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Hoping by end of the week UNC will have lost the Michigan state championship.

[devildeac]

Hoping by end of the week UNC will have lost the Michigan state championship.

Mike Corey will NOT like you for that hope. He won't like me either. Go Wolverines. :o

[Olympic Fan]

We'll have a good idea of how the ACC-Big Ten Challenge is going to go after tonight -- if the ACC is not 2-0, then we are in trouble.

I rarely pull for Syracuse, but tonight -- GO ORANGE, stick it to the Terps.

Interesting fact, Maryland was 10-5 in the Challenge as an ACC member .. but so far they are 0-3 as a Big Ten team.

[wilson]

We'll have a good idea of how the ACC-Big Ten Challenge is going to go after tonight -- if the ACC is not 2-0, then we are in trouble.

I rarely pull for Syracuse, but tonight -- GO ORANGE, stick it to the Terps.

Interesting fact, Maryland was 10-5 in the Challenge as an ACC member .. but so far they are 0-3 as a Big Ten team.Maryland also has a somewhat inscrutable resume so far this season. A good win over Butler in mid-November, and a loss to St. Bonaventure last weekend. All other games are wins over mostly unimpressive competition (KenPom #178 New Mexico, #325 Jackson St., #73 Bucknell, #339 Maryland-Eastern Shore, and #191 Stony Brook).
I agree that tonight will be telling.

[andyw715]

Maryland also has a somewhat inscrutable resume so far this season. A good win over Butler in mid-November, and a loss to St. Bonaventure last weekend. All other games are wins over mostly unimpressive competition (KenPom #178 New Mexico, #325 Jackson St., #73 Bucknell, #339 Maryland-Eastern Shore, and #191 Stony Brook).
I agree that tonight will be telling.


Unf. Tyus Battle (Cuse) got hurt in the Toledo game and might not play tonight. So we'll see how the team manages his loss for 40min.

[OldPhiKap]

You couldn’t pay me enough to watch Syracuse and Maryland play a game. Detest both.

[Tripping William]

You couldn’t pay me enough to watch Syracuse and Maryland play a game. Detest both.

Yeah, well, I’m chomping at the bit to watch Wiscy/UVa at 9:00 tonight. Or to get a root canal. Not enough caffeine on the planet.....

[MChambers]

Yeah, well, I’m chomping at the bit to watch Wiscy/UVa at 9:00 tonight. Or to get a root canal. Not enough caffeine on the planet....
UVa is clocking at #351 in tempo in KenPom. That’s out of 351 teams, but who’s counting? Seriously, how does Bennett recruit any players? He’s a very good coach and seems to do things the right way, but can’t he pick up the pace on offense?

Wiscy, for comparison, is #332 in tempo.

Predicted halftime score? 20-17?

[Green Wave Dukie]

Hoping by end of the week UNC will have lost the Michigan state championship.

Agreed.

But personally, I am really hoping they cap off the week w/a loss on Sunday.

[MChambers]

Sean has 2 rebounds already.

[Faison1]

Not that rankings mean anything, but the ACC has 6 teams ranked in the top 25....Big 10 has 2

I'm hoping we reestablish our dominance over the Midwest. I miss the days when we won 8-2 or 7-3.

[Olympic Fan]

Good opening night for the Challenge ... Syracuse holds on to win 72-70, despite going 0-4 from the foul line in the final 20 seconds. And Battle did play.

Virginia put the clamps on Wisconsin, holding the Badgers to less than a point a minute.

That's a 2-0 lead for the ACC going into Tuesday's five games.

PS I got a little nauseated listening the Seth talk about how undervalued Syracuse is ... why they are undefeated he kept repeating!

He didn't mentioned that every game they've played so far was in the Carrier Dome and that Maryland was their first top 100 win.

[JasonEvans]

I watched the Cavs-Wisky game and UVA’s D is a thing of beauty to behold. They trap at just the right times and they are absurdly fundamentally solid in terms of moving their feet and being in the right position to cut you off from where you want to go. Wisconsin took 7 free throws and UVA took none. The fact that Virginia can play D like this without fouling is some kind of Jedi mind trick or something. Truly impressive.

That said, they are also capable of scoring at times. They got 90+ in one game and have topped 70 a few times already. Considering the snail like pace they play at, that’s pretty good.

-Jason "They are really good again this year, criminally underrated in the polls thus far. The ACC is a bear this season!!" Evans

[PackMan97]

Back in the days of Herb Sendek, I always said that State folks would embrace Herb if he won. I am silently thanking myself that Sendek did not win more at State. There are two things I don't want to see State do in order to have basketball success....the first is I don't want do is compromise our academics in order to keep atheltes eligible, the second is to play at a slow godawful pace like UVa plays at. I think I would scratch out my eyes just so I didn't have to watch every game. Somethings are not worth the price.

[JasonEvans]

After the win last night, Virginia's D is up to an absurd 85.8 in KenPom's defensive rankings. To merely say that is the #1 D in the country does not do full justice to how good it is. The difference between Virginia's #1 D and the #2 D (Texas A&M) is the same as the difference between the #2 and #20 defenses. That is how dominant Virginia's D is. Wow!!

Meanwhile, Duke is the #1 offense, also by a pretty wide margin (though not quite as big as Virginia's D)... can't wait until we play them. Immovable Object meets Unstoppable Force!

[flyingdutchdevil]

After the win last night, Virginia's D is up to an absurd 85.8 in KenPom's defensive rankings. To merely say that is the #1 D in the country does not do full justice to how good it is. The difference between Virginia's #1 D and the #2 D (Texas A&M) is the same as the difference between the #2 and #20 defenses. That is how dominant Virginia's D is. Wow!!

Meanwhile, Duke is the #1 offense, also by a pretty wide margin (though not quite as big as Virginia's D)... can't wait until we play them. Immovable Object meets Unstoppable Force!

Duke's offensive ranking since 2012 (starting with '12 to this season): 8, 4, 1, 3, 4, 6, 1
Virginia's defensive ranking since 2012 (starting with '12 to this season): 5, 25, 4, 2, 7, 2, 1

My favorite game every year (outside of UNC) is Duke-Virginia. 'Cus you know you'll be getting an elite offensive team vs an elite defensive team. I could watch one-side of the court all day long. The other side of the court? Generally not pretty.

[wobatus]

Duke's offensive ranking since 2012 (starting with '12 to this season): 8, 4, 1, 3, 4, 6, 1
Virginia's defensive ranking since 2012 (starting with '12 to this season): 5, 25, 4, 2, 7, 2, 1

My favorite game every year (outside of UNC) is Duke-Virginia. 'Cus you know you'll be getting an elite offensive team vs an elite defensive team. I could watch one-side of the court all day long. The other side of the court? Generally not pretty.


Uva was also 8th in offensive efficiency in 2016, so at least efficient for the pace. That team just couldn't handle the amazing Boeheim wrinkle of scrapping the vaunted 2-3 and, you know, pressing when behind.

You guys are clearly the class of the league and I think the rest are playing for 2nd place. Although Notre Dame is my dark horse. Especially since Brey knows some of K's secrets apparently. They have done pretty well against Duke since they joined the ACC. As for UNC, aside from the inside issues and streaky perimeter game, their ACC schedule is tougher this year compared to last. The tough games last year were home games mostly, this year 2 with Duke as always, 2 with ND, road games with UVa and Louisville.

But I will say, as far as championships, number 36 D won't cut it. No championship team in kenpom era has finished outside the top 20 in D. UNC 2009 was the worst at 18. Wisconsin came close in 2015 with the 35th ranked D 9for all their D rep it was their hyper efficient offense that was their calling card that year, number 1 in Kenpom).

That said, championship runs make the D look better and better as you knock off 5 or 6 usually pretty good offenses. The talent is there to be really good, and clearly Duke clamped down the last 2 games when it mattered. I just read the odds were .04% of making those 2 comebacks in a row. The frosh will presumably only get better and better, at D as with everything else.

So the D will improve. And it has to for a title run.

Notre Dame has the number 3 o and number 35 D, so a little like Wiscy in 2015. And they almost pulled off the 2015 upset of Kentucky themselves. They were number 2 in O that year, but number 99 in D. Very exciting team, and Connaughton is actually doing pretty well in the NBA these days.

Some good D in the ACC. UVa 1 of course. Miami 7. UNC 15 (and still 15 in O despite the Sparty shellacking). Louisville 20. Georgia Tech 28. Notre Dame and Duke at 35 (very good for ND historically) and 36. With those Os it will play. But to win a title you definitely need to tighten it up.

Last year UNC I think was relatively low after the loss to kentucky in the regular season and clamped down later. Anyway, early on, the kenpom ranks are wonky. Got to wait for more games and higher levels of comp for all teams.

Here is the list of champs and D efficiency since 2002 (start of kenpom era):

2002 Maryland 7
2003 Syracuse 14
2004 UConn 6
2005 UNC 5
2006 Florida 7
2007 Florida 13
2008 Kansas 1
2009 UNC 18
2010 Duke 5
2011 UConn 15
2012 Kentucky 7
2013 Louisville 1
2014 UConn 10
2015 Duke 1
2016 'Nova 5
2017 UNC 11.

Of course if kenpom went back to 2001 Duke would likely be the number 1 O and maybe number 1 in D. In 2002 they were number 1 in both but that didn't mean a title. The NCAAs can be a crap shoot.

Interestingly, the number 1 offense has only won the title 3 times in the kenpom era, same as for number 1 Ds. Usually you need a bit of both, naturally. Just don't tell 2014 UConn, 39 in o.

Number 1 offenses don't always cut it. Last year Oklahoma State was number 1 in O. 9-9 in the Big 12. Got Underwood a new job, though.

Number 1 Offenses in the kenpom era:

2017 Oklahoma St. Lost 1st round to Michigan
2016 UNC Lost Finals to Villanova
2015 Wisconsin Lost Finals to Duke
2014 Duke Lost 2nd round to Mercer
2013 Missouri Lost 2nd round to Norfolk St
2012 Michigan Lost 2nd round to Ohio
2011 Ohio State Lost Sweet 16 to Kentucky
2010 Duke Won Title
2009 UNC Won Title
2008 UNC Lost semis to Kansas
2007 Florida Won Finals
2006 Duke Lost Sweet 16 to LSU
2005 Wake Forest Lost 2nd round to West Virginia
2004 Wake Forest Lost in Sweet 16 to #1 seed Saint Josephs RIP Skip Prosser, almost forgot how good those teams were
2003 Georgia 1 Huh? Jim Harrick team, missed the tournament
2002 Duke 1 Lost Sweet 16 to Indiana
2001 Duke 1 Won Finals (OK, pre-Kenpom, but you gotta figure; and maybe number 1 in D, too, as they were in 2002)

OK, sorry for the word salad. #GOACC.

[Wahoo2000]

That Wisconsin game was BY FAR the worst we've performed offensively this season. Up until this game, I've actually enjoyed seeing us get some transition buckets (believe it or not), as well as take some quick shots occasionally. We're FAR from even a medium-tempo team, but until last night, we've definitely played a little quicker by the eyeball test. We shot REALLY poorly on some high quality shots, especially from 3 yesterday. It also seemed that once it got to about the 8 minute mark, we were happy to start taking the air out of the ball to shorten the game. We also had a few guys (Jerome in particular) with some really uncharacteristic turnovers. Last, the refs made it an absolute slugfest last night. It was pretty much no foul unless it was an intentional foul to stop an easy basket. We didn't shoot a single free throw for the first time in program history. And this after us averaging (I think) close to 18 a game coming into last night.

It wasn't just the pace of play that made it an ugly game last night, though that seems to be everyone's "hot take" since it's the easy story in any UVA-WIS matchup. There was also awful shooting from both teams and too many sloppy turnovers (and though SOME of it is due to the great defense, BOTH teams missed a lot of chippies and open 3s, and had unforced dumb turnovers). Last, there were VERY few fouls for how physical the game was played. Honestly, aside from the pace, it wasn't all that different from the MSU/UNC game the other night in terms of missed opportunities and dumb turnovers. Just an ugly game. I'd rather win ugly than lose pretty 7 days a week though.

And for as much credit as we're getting in this thread for our D, we're still not there defensively (or even super close). Right now much of our defensive success is opponent-based. Some are simply overmatched, some don't have the right type of attack to take advantage of our deficiencies. If we played any top 10 or maybe 20 kenpom offenses, they'd probably do some major damage. I think we'll hit our stride on D and play really well there, but not for about another 10-15 games. As this 2nd year class (Guy, Jerome, Diakite) gets more experience under their belts, we should stiffen up a good bit.

Huge game for us @WVU next week. If we escape there with a win, we probably roll into the new year undefeated and back in the top 10.

[Truth&Justise]

But I will say, as far as championships, number 36 D won't cut it. No championship team in kenpom era has finished outside the top 20 in D.

. . .

That said, championship runs make the D look better and better as you knock off 5 or 6 usually pretty good offenses. Here is the list of champs and D efficiency since 2002 (start of kenpom era):

2002 Maryland 7
2003 Syracuse 14
2004 UConn 6
2005 UNC 5
2006 Florida 7
2007 Florida 13
2008 Kansas 1
2009 UNC 18
2010 Duke 5
2011 UConn 15
2012 Kentucky 7
2013 Louisville 1
2014 UConn 10
2015 Duke 1
2016 'Nova 5
2017 UNC 11.


A minor correction, but even after the tournament Duke's defense was ranked 11th, not 1st. I don't have the subscription to KenPom, but does anyone know what Duke's defensive rank was entering the tournament? I seem to remember it being around 20 or 30 but am not sure.

[wobatus]

A minor correction, but even after the tournament Duke's defense was ranked 11th, not 1st. I don't have the subscription to KenPom, but does anyone know what Duke's defensive rank was entering the tournament? I seem to remember it being around 20 or 30 but am not sure.

Yup. I tried to edit that but screwed it up. 11, not 1. In 2002, number 1 in both O and D in kenpom. Only time that happened.

It's true, though, that making the tourney run itself that often gets the D ranking higher. So 36 now doesn't mean much.

[tbyers11]

A minor correction, but even after the tournament Duke's defense was ranked 11th, not 1st. I don't have the subscription to KenPom, but does anyone know what Duke's defensive rank was entering the tournament? I seem to remember it being around 20 or 30 but am not sure.

The pre-tourney ranking listed on KenPom for 2015 was #37.

We improved to #11 over the course of tournament.

[wilson]

GA Tech beat Northwestern by a point at the buzzer. Another bummer for Chris’s squad, doubly so because I’ve developed a mysteriously intense all-sports dislike for Tech in recent years.
Looking good for the ACC though...the Jackets’ win makes it 3-0 in the Challenge, Florida State has a late lead over Rutgers, and Pitt just beat...wait, High Point isn’t a B1G school? Oh, ok.

[Bluedog]

But I will say, as far as championships, number 36 D won't cut it. No championship team in kenpom era has finished outside the top 20 in D. UNC 2009 was the worst at 18.

UNC was ranked 39 in D in 2009 before the tourney...and they were #25 in D last year. UConn was 20 in 2011 (and an abysmal 103 on offense). Syracuse had the #33 D in 2003. So, seems like not every championship team has had an elite defense and also that the tourney results can be somewhat fluky certain years...not surprising that UNC has had some of the worst defenses of championship teams in recent years.


2002 Maryland 7
2003 Syracuse 14
2004 UConn 6
2005 UNC 5
2006 Florida 7
2007 Florida 13
2008 Kansas 1
2009 UNC 18
2010 Duke 5
2011 UConn 15
2012 Kentucky 7
2013 Louisville 1
2014 UConn 10
2015 Duke 11
2016 'Nova 5
2017 UNC 11.

[ipatent]

I don't have the subscription to KenPom, but does anyone know what Duke's defensive rank was entering the tournament? I seem to remember it being around 20 or 30 but am not sure.

You don't need a subscription to get the defensive rating, it's on the front page which is available to the public. Duke is #36 right now. I think it improved a bit during the PK80.

[Nrrrrvous]

Hokies on a 20 to 1 run in 2nd half to open up on Iowa. They can score in a hurry.

[PackMan97]

Louisville drops for the first game for the ACC.

Wake up late against the Illini, but can Danny's crew close the deal?

5-1 for the ACC right now with WF vs IL in progress.

[Faison1]

Louisville drops for the first game for the ACC.

Wake up late against the Illini, but can Danny's crew close the deal?

5-1 for the ACC right now with WF vs IL in progress.

Nice showing for the ACC so far...now up 6-1

I haven't looked at the match-ups for tomorrow night, but still feeling very good about the situation.

[pfrduke]

Nice showing for the ACC so far...now up 6-1

I haven't looked at the match-ups for tomorrow night, but still feeling very good about the situation.

In the last 7 games, only Duke and UNC are favorites.

[Faison1]

In the last 7 games, only Duke and UNC are favorites.

NC State over Penn State, I hope

Miami over Minnesota is a possibility

Notre Dame at MSU should be interesting

The rest of the games are true toss ups

[Olympic Fan]

I know that only Duke and UNC are favorites Wednesday night, but the remaining matchups aren't that clearcut.

Penn State is a 1-point favorite at NC State ... Ohio State is a 3-point favorite over Clemson ... Nebraska is a 3-point favorite over BC ... Minnesota is a 5-point favorite over Miami.

Meanwhile Duke is a 10-point favorite at Indiana and the Cheats are a 10 1/2 point favorite over Michigan.

Can't find odds on Notre Dame at Michigan State, although I'm sure the Spartans are solidly favored on Thursday night.

Still, as long as Duke and UNC avoid the big upset, the ACC wins the challenge ... but I'm better with win one of two of the first games listed to make it a rout.

[Dukeblue91]

It really wouldn't hurt my feelings if the cheats get real whooping.
GTHC

[MChambers]

It really wouldn't hurt my feelings if the cheats get real whooping.
GTHC

Even if it means the ACC doesn’t win the challenge!

[Neals384]

I'm clueless regarding the backstory for the whole HWMNBN business, but it appears JD had a typo on the DBR front page and did in fact name him. So, what evil misfortune awaits?

[PackMan97]

Even if it means the ACC doesn’t win the challenge!

When the Cheaters win, those that play by the rules lose.

[slower]

Yeah, well, I’m chomping at the bit to watch Wiscy/UVa at 9:00 tonight. Or to get a root canal. Not enough caffeine on the planet....

Watching that matchup would be like watching two giant snails fight to the death.

[Dev11]

Even if it means the ACC doesn’t win the challenge!

I gave up some time ago rooting really hard for the rest of the ACC. Duke is always nationally competitive and doesn't need the ACC to be a cut above to get good tournament seeding. If anything, I find that fans of other ACC programs resent Duke's success.

That said, I continue to root against Carolina. That never had anything to do with anything else.

[OldPhiKap]

I gave up some time ago rooting really hard for the rest of the ACC. Duke is always nationally competitive and doesn't need the ACC to be a cut above to get good tournament seeding. If anything, I find that fans of other ACC programs resent Duke's success.

That said, I continue to root against Carolina. That never had anything to do with anything else.

I generally agree with this, although I pull for UVA and State in their games. FSU too for family reasons.

Otherwise, since expansion, I’ve really lost the whole “ACC Team” thing. If have to remind myself that some of these teams are in our conference, let alone that I should theoretically give a hoot whether they win or lose.

And 9F the Bastards, always.

[devildeac]

Even if it means the ACC doesn’t win the challenge!

Yep. As long as those lying, cheating bastards burn in Sheol, I'm good.

[Troublemaker]

Even if it means the ACC doesn’t win the challenge!


Yep. As long as those lying, cheating bastards burn in Sheol, I'm good.

Yep. Even beyond 9F for the sake of 9F, we also should be thinking about the Charlotte pod in this season's NCAA tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_NCAA_Division_I_Men%27s_Basketball_Tournament #2018_NCAA_Tournament_schedule_and_venues). Let's put more blemishes onto UNC's resume so they get shipped elsewhere and we don't have to deal with their obnoxious fans in Charlotte.

[MChambers]

Yep. Even beyond 9F for the sake of 9F, we also should be thinking about the Charlotte pod in this season's NCAA tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_NCAA_Division_I_Men%27s_Basketball_Tournament #2018_NCAA_Tournament_schedule_and_venues). Let's put more blemishes onto UNC's resume so they get shipped elsewhere and we don't have to deal with their obnoxious fans in Charlotte.
Send them out West to play Weber State.

[wilson]

Yep. Even beyond 9F for the sake of 9F, we also should be thinking about the Charlotte pod in this season's NCAA tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_NCAA_Division_I_Men%27s_Basketball_Tournament #2018_NCAA_Tournament_schedule_and_venues). Let's put more blemishes onto UNC's resume so they get shipped elsewhere and we don't have to deal with their obnoxious fans in Charlotte.


Send them out West to play Weber State.I'd rather slot them into a first-round home game against, say, William & Mary. (http://www.wm.edu/news/stories/2010/nit-123.php)

[BD80]

Yep. Even beyond 9F for the sake of 9F, we also should be thinking about the Charlotte pod in this season's NCAA tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_NCAA_Division_I_Men%27s_Basketball_Tournament #2018_NCAA_Tournament_schedule_and_venues). Let's put more blemishes onto UNC's resume so they get shipped elsewhere and we don't have to deal with their obnoxious fans in Charlotte.

As if I needed more reason ...

But actually, I very much appreciate the reminder. This is an excuse I can proffer to others when they question the intensity of my hatred for all things unc.

This will make me seem reasonable, well, at least sane, hmmm, let's just say "less psychotic"

[duke4ever19]

UNC looks like it has recovered from being shut down by Mich. St.

Shooting around 60% from the field and put some space between themselves and Michigan.

[Bob Green]

With the ACC leading the Challenge 6-1, here are the halftime scores of tonight's early games:

N.C. State 37, Penn St 30
Ohio State 37, Clemson 30
North Carolina 51, Michigan 37

Eight wins are required to win the Challenge so this thing could be wrapped up by 9:15 tonight. I'm pulling for 2nd half comebacks by Clemson and Michigan.

[dukelifer]

UNC looks like it has recovered from being shut down by Mich. St.

Shooting around 60% from the field and put some space between themselves and Michigan.

They shoot well. Teams need to focus on defending Maye.

[hsheffield]

UNC looks like it has recovered from being shut down by Mich. St.

Shooting around 60% from the field and put some space between themselves and Michigan.

much as it pains me to say it, the tar heels are looking pretty amazing right now. damn.

[dukelifer]

much as it pains me to say it, the tar heels are looking pretty amazing right now. damn.

Up almost 30. It worries me that this team could win it all again. Not many teams that will challenge UNC- at least at this point in the season.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

They shoot well. Teams need to focus on defending Maye.
You just ruptured the space-time continuum...

[Green Wave Dukie]

You just ruptured the space-time continuum...

Wow, this is heavy.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Are the cheats this good or is Michigan this bad?

[dukelifer]

Are the cheats this good or is Michigan this bad?

UNC is good and in some ways better than Duke at this point in the season. Michigan is a legit power 5 team. Duke has not destroyed a power 5 team. In fact- they have struggled. We will see how they do tonight.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

UNC is good and in some ways better than Duke at this point in the season. Michigan is a legit power 5 team. Duke has not destroyed a power 5 team. In fact- they have struggled. We will see how they do tonight.
Better except for losing badly to the same MSU team we beat, mostly without Bagley...

[CDu]

Are the cheats this good or is Michigan this bad?

Michigan hasn’t looked very good so far. They lost their only other game against a Power 5 school (to LSU, who hasn’t beaten any other schools of note), and barely beat Central Michigan.

UNC is a top-15 team. So, they are good.

[dukelifer]

Better except for losing badly to the same MSU team we beat, mostly without Bagley...

Yes- this is true. The key is defending Maye- which MSU did. He has 25 points on 10/14 shooting with 6 minutes to go. He has done that in almost every game except MSU and Stanford. He is better than Justin Jackson in terms of consistency. I think people can defend him - but he is the real deal and the main reason they are winning big.

[hsheffield]

Up almost 30. It worries me that this team could win it all again. Not many teams that will challenge UNC- at least at this point in the season.

I hate it when that happens

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Wow, this is heavy.

What does weight have to do with it, Marty?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

So glad Dickie V isn't doing our game.

[Ultrarunner]

much as it pains me to say it, the tar heels are looking pretty amazing right now. damn.

I got to see them live on Sunday. That was amazing, too - in the opposite direction. Yay!

[-jk]

So glad Dickie V isn't doing our game.

Does that mean we get Jay?

-jk

[Ultrarunner]

Yes- this is true. The key is defending Maye- which MSU did. He has 25 points on 10/14 shooting with 6 minutes to go. He has done that in almost every game except MSU and Stanford. He is better than Justin Jackson in terms of consistency. I think people can defend him - but he is the real deal and the main reason they are winning big.

What MSU did was take away Berry. His first shot got slapped into his face. He never had any real space to work. Maye was secondary.

[scottdude8]

First thought: sadness. I thought Michigan had a legit shot to take down UNCheat after how bad they looked on Sunday, and how promising the first 8 minutes of the game were. But Michigan can't win when they don't shoot, and they went ice cold after the first 10 minutes.

Now to the scouting report:
—Whenever Mo Wagner went into the post, he scored easily (when Michigan was in the game early it was because they were going to this look... Michigan fell behind when they went away from that and started settling for threes). The way Wagner carved up the Tar Heel front court I can't wait to see what Bagley and Carter can do.
—Luke May has a legit offensive game now. He's shooting well from all over the court and had some very nice footwork down low. However, he's going to be a defensive liability against more powerful bigs. I don't see how he'll be able to keep any of our forwards off the glass.
—Joel Berry is the Tar Heels' only guy who can really get his own shot, especially now that he's making threes again. If I were a coach, I'd gameplan my defense around pressuring him the second he crosses half court to make him get the ball out of his hands, and then play deny on him. The Tar Heels don't have the secondary ballhandlers or playmakers to create chances if Berry isn't handling the ball.
—Obviously the Tar Heels have talent, they always do... but despite watching the entire game no one did anything that made an impact on me besides Berry and May. There was no one who was a dominant rebounder, or a deadeye shooter, or made any crazy athletic plays. That makes me think that this team is only going to go as far as Berry takes them. Unfortunately for my Wolverines he was on point in the first half tonight.

All that said, Michigan stuck with the Tar Heels on the road for the first ten minutes before they stopped hitting open threes, and actually made a run at the end to make the game competitive. I wasn't at all impressed with UNC, and I left the game thinking that some of their young guys are gonna have to make some major strides if they're going to compete in the ACC.

[PackMan97]

With the ACC leading the Challenge 6-1, here are the halftime scores of tonight's early games:

N.C. State 37, Penn St 30
Ohio State 37, Clemson 30
North Carolina 51, Michigan 37

Eight wins are required to win the Challenge so this thing could be wrapped up by 9:15 tonight. I'm pulling for 2nd half comebacks by Clemson and Michigan.

That the ACC did.

NC State 85 - Penn State 78
Clemson 79 - Ohio State 65
Cheaters 86 - Michigan 71

NC State won with their three point shooting. Yes, you read that right, we shot 10-16 from beyond that arc with Sam Hunt going 4-5 and Omar Yurtseven going 3-3. Omar had another great game with 12 boards and 19 points. Abu did not play for the pack after reporting soreness in a knee he sprained earlier this year. While Penn St isn't a great team, they did thump Pitt pretty hard earlier in November.

At this point, I'm quite happy that the Wolfpack has two P5 wins in hand. Last year that didn't happen unti lthe middle of January. The year before that, also the middle of January. Even three years ago it took until Dec 17th to get two P5 wins. I think we'll be inconsistent this year, but very dangerous.

[Green Wave Dukie]

What does weight have to do with it, Marty?

I think it's 1.21 gigawatts, but I'll have to ask Javin DeLorean.

[Faison1]

Ouchie!!

ACC Smack Down!!

It's 11-2 after tonight.....

[smvalkyries]

Ouchie!!

ACC Smack Down!!

It's 11-2 after tonight....

Well 10-2 we really can't count Carolina's semi-pro team as part of our collegiate conference can we? Still incredibly impressive for Duke and the conference as a whole.

[Olympic Fan]

Well 10-2 we really can't count Carolina's semi-pro team as part of our collegiate conference can we? Still incredibly impressive for Duke and the conference as a whole.

I like your reasoning. I'd rather not have any association with the Cheats.

So 10-2 with one game left -- Notre Dame at Michigan State Thursday night.

FWIW: The most previous wins in the history of the Challenge was last year, when the ACC was 9-5. The Challenge started in 1999 and thus is the most dominant performance by either conference.

[tbyers11]

Notre Dame looks positively Duke-like with their slow start.

Michigan St is hitting everything and is up 33-15 with 8 min left in the first half.

Bonzie hasn't scored yet.

Lots of game left, but this is making our showing against Mich St even more impressive

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Notre Dame looks positively Duke-like with their slow start.

Michigan St is hitting everything and is up 33-15 with 8 min left in the first half.

Bonzie hasn't scored yet.

Lots of game left, but this is making our showing against Mich St even more impressive

Meh, we looked good against MSU, but we didn't have a big comeback.

/s

[weezie]

Ugh, this nd@sparty game is terrible. What's the collectible forest animal statue channel again?

[flyingdutchdevil]

Notre Dame looks positively Duke-like with their slow start.

Michigan St is hitting everything and is up 33-15 with 8 min left in the first half.

Bonzie hasn't scored yet.

Lots of game left, but this is making our showing against Mich St even more impressive

Sparty lookin top 5. Whoever beat them with their single loss must be very talented.

[wilson]

Sparty lookin top 5. Whoever beat them with their single loss must be very talented.Meh. I think they must have just gotten lucky, and will soon pay the reaper for their utter inability to play defense, shoot the ball, or play a complete game. ;)

[AGDukesky]

Meh. I think they must have just gotten lucky, and will soon pay the reaper for their utter inability to play defense, shoot the ball, or play a complete game. ;)

It was probably some team returning a veteran group of starters playing on its homecourt that had its Super Bowl, while MSU took the opponent lightly...

[PackMan97]

Meh. I think they must have just gotten lucky, and will soon pay the reaper for their utter inability to play defense, shoot the ball, or play a complete game. ;)

Lucky or good? Teams don't sit at 9-0 with multiple Top 10 scalps by being lucky.

Perhaps that team is so good they don't need to be able to play defense, shoot the ball or play a complete game in order to beat teams?

All the rest of us can do is pray they don't have a hall of fame coach running that team and few week break over the Christmas holiday to work on all that. They could be scary good if they did.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Meh. I think they must have just gotten lucky, and will soon pay the reaper for their utter inability to play defense, shoot the ball, or play a complete game. ;)

It is stunning. I am probably the loudest on this forum about our crap defense, and I know others are worried about our inability to shoot from players not named Grayson. And it's kinda true that we haven't played a complete game outside of Sparty.

What this tells me is the following: either a) Duke is playing overranked opponents, b) Duke is so offensively talented that it doesn't matter if they can't master a few fundamentals, or c) Duke has a phenom who is so good all you have to do is give him the ball and get the hell out of his way.

I don't think it's a) (too easy to tell), I think it's a little b), and it's most certainly c).

[JasonEvans]

What this tells me is the following: either a) Duke is playing overranked opponents, b) Duke is so offensively talented that it doesn't matter if they can't master a few fundamentals, or c) Duke has a phenom who is so good all you have to do is give him the ball and get the hell out of his way.

I don't think it's a) (too easy to tell), I think it's a little b), and it's most certainly c).

Agree...

B and C

[English]

It is stunning. I am probably the loudest on this forum about our crap defense, and I know others are worried about our inability to shoot from players not named Grayson. And it's kinda true that we haven't played a complete game outside of Sparty.

What this tells me is the following: either a) Duke is playing overranked opponents, b) Duke is so offensively talented that it doesn't matter if they can't master a few fundamentals, or c) Duke has a phenom who is so good all you have to do is give him the ball and get the hell out of his way.

I don't think it's a) (too easy to tell), I think it's a little b), and it's most certainly c).

Which one? We didn't have Bagley for 3/4 of Sparty...which, coincidentally, is the apparently super legit team that's sort of the catalyst for this exchange.

ETA: I agree with the combo of B & C, although I'd amend C to include 2-3 phenoms who can completely take over games.

[Troublemaker]

It is stunning. I am probably the loudest on this forum about our crap defense, and I know others are worried about our inability to shoot from players not named Grayson. And it's kinda true that we haven't played a complete game outside of Sparty.

What this tells me is the following: either a) Duke is playing overranked opponents, b) Duke is so offensively talented that it doesn't matter if they can't master a few fundamentals, or c) Duke has a phenom who is so good all you have to do is give him the ball and get the hell out of his way.

I don't think it's a) (too easy to tell), I think it's a little b), and it's most certainly c).

d) Duke has gotten lucky to win every close game so far. And we should be thrilled, but the team needs to improve. And they will.

[Wahoo2000]

Meh. I think they must have just gotten lucky, and will soon pay the reaper for their utter inability to play defense, shoot the ball, or play a complete game. ;)

I know you're joking, but it's SERIOUSLY scary that Duke has played pretty mediocre defense, and has no proven consistent shooting threat outside Allen, but are still 9-0 with a couple of good/great wins.

I'm assuming the defense will improve at least somewhat as the season progresses, and that alone should make you guys juuuust about unbeatable. Even if Trent never finds his stroke from 3 on a consistent basis, I can see this Duke team just hammering even GOOD teams by Feb/Mar. I think you'll reach the point where only foul trouble can keep you from demoralizing the competition.

[English]

I know you're joking, but it's SERIOUSLY scary that Duke has played pretty mediocre defense, and has no proven consistent shooting threat outside Allen, but are still 9-0 with a couple of good/great wins.

I'm assuming the defense will improve at least somewhat as the season progresses, and that alone should make you guys juuuust about unbeatable. Even if Trent never finds his stroke from 3 on a consistent basis, I can see this Duke team just hammering even GOOD teams by Feb/Mar. I think you'll reach the point where only foul trouble can keep you from demoralizing the competition.

Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[JasonEvans]

I know you're joking, but it's SERIOUSLY scary that Duke has played pretty mediocre defense, and has no proven consistent shooting threat outside Allen, but are still 9-0 with a couple of good/great wins.

I'm assuming the defense will improve at least somewhat as the season progresses, and that alone should make you guys juuuust about unbeatable. Even if Trent never finds his stroke from 3 on a consistent basis, I can see this Duke team just hammering even GOOD teams by Feb/Mar. I think you'll reach the point where only foul trouble can keep you from demoralizing the competition.

Thanks for the praise Wahoo, but I think Virginia will give us trouble. Tony B's D is designed to take away interior baskets and that is what Duke thrives upon. Do you think Wilkins, Salt, and Diatike can clog the lane enough to prevent Carter and Bagley from getting pain baskets and owning the boards?

To me, one good data point is last year's UVA-UNC games where Virginia was pretty successful in keeping the Heels dominant interior players from taking over the game. The Heels won game one thanks to Justin Jackson having a strong game from 3 (4-for-8), they got only 10 ORebs in that game. In game 2, the Heels again could only pull down 10 ORebs and when Jackson had a poor game from the outside (1-6), Virginia won.

-Jason "put another way, I think Allen is the key to beating Virginia" Evans

[JasonEvans]

... to prevent Carter and Bagley from getting pain baskets...

My best typo ever!! I didn't need the "T" in paint, did I?

I fully plan to describe Carter points as "pain baskets" from now on.

[MChambers]

I know you're joking, but it's SERIOUSLY scary that Duke has played pretty mediocre defense, and has no proven consistent shooting threat outside Allen, but are still 9-0 with a couple of good/great wins.

I'm assuming the defense will improve at least somewhat as the season progresses, and that alone should make you guys juuuust about unbeatable. Even if Trent never finds his stroke from 3 on a consistent basis, I can see this Duke team just hammering even GOOD teams by Feb/Mar. I think you'll reach the point where only foul trouble can keep you from demoralizing the competition.

Nice try, but reverse woofing never works:

http://homepages.cae.wisc.edu/~dwilson/rsfc/Woof.html#12

[Troublemaker]

I know you're joking, but it's SERIOUSLY scary that Duke has played pretty mediocre defense, and has no proven consistent shooting threat outside Allen, but are still 9-0 with a couple of good/great wins.

I'm assuming the defense will improve at least somewhat as the season progresses, and that alone should make you guys juuuust about unbeatable. Even if Trent never finds his stroke from 3 on a consistent basis, I can see this Duke team just hammering even GOOD teams by Feb/Mar. I think you'll reach the point where only foul trouble can keep you from demoralizing the competition.

I just don't see that in the cards. Now, I expect us to win the ACC and be a 1 seed, but I don't think we're going to be hammering the UVAs and Miamis of the conference.

ACC coaches will find a way to exploit our lack of shooting, I think. If the defense isn't better by conference play, we won't win the conference. But I think it will be.

[Olympic Fan]

I watched the last nine minutes of Georgia Tech's home game with Grambling.

They were down 18 (49-31) when I started watching. Them Jose Alvarado kicked sparked a terrific comeback as Tech outscored them 32-11 to take a 63-60 lead with 30 seconds left.

But a bad foul, two missed free throws and a turnover later, it's 63-62 and Grambling has the ball. Their last shot misses, but two Tech players fighting for the rebound (Lammers and I think Alston) combine to tip it in for what proves to he the game-winning shot. Tech has one last chance with 6.5 second left, but Alvarado pushes it up and launches a tough floater that doesn't come close.

http://uproxx.com/dimemag/grambling-college-basketball-video-georgia-tech-upset/3/

This is a horrendous loss for the Jackets -- at home. Grambling is one of the worst teams in Division 1 -- 338th out of 351 on Kenpom.

Meanwhile, Pitt gets a solid win in its intercity battle with Duquesne

[arnie]

I watched the last nine minutes of Georgia Tech's home game with Grambling.

They were down 18 (49-31) when I started watching. Them Jose Alvarado kicked sparked a terrific comeback as Tech outscored them 32-11 to take a 63-60 lead with 30 seconds left.

But a bad foul, two missed free throws and a turnover later, it's 63-62 and Grambling has the ball. Their last shot misses, but two Tech players fighting for the rebound (Lammers and I think Alston) combine to tip it in for what proves to he the game-winning shot. Tech has one last chance with 6.5 second left, but Alvarado pushes it up and launches a tough floater that doesn't come close.

http://uproxx.com/dimemag/grambling-college-basketball-video-georgia-tech-upset/3/

This is a horrendous loss for the Jackets -- at home. Grambling is one of the worst teams in Division 1 -- 338th out of 351 on Kenpom.

Meanwhile, Pitt gets a solid win in its intercity battle with Duquesne
Could that GAT loss be the worst OOC loss in ACC history?

[CDu]

Could that GAT loss be the worst OOC loss in ACC history?

I think #1 UVa (with Ralph Sampson) losing to D-II Chaminade is worse.

[arnie]

I think #1 UVa (with Ralph Sampson) losing to D-II Chaminade is worse.

Good point and that probably was worse. Although, extenuating circumstances (travel) played into UVA loss.

[arnie]

And I forgot about an ACC team losing to Wagner in 82 or 83. Surprised that coach didn’t get axed immediately.

[Wander]

Could that GAT loss be the worst OOC loss in ACC history?

Came here to ask the same thing. Grambling is one of the worst teams in Division 1 - in fact, they have finished dead last out of ~350 Division teams in kenpom several times. They have also lost to non-Division 1 teams before, so I wouldn't automatically assume they are better than Chaminade. Combined with the home/away factor, I say there's a good chance this is the worst loss ever by an ACC team.

[tbyers11]

Came here to ask the same thing. Grambling is one of the worst teams in Division 1 - in fact, they have finished dead last out of ~350 Division teams in kenpom several times. They have also lost to non-Division 1 teams before, so I wouldn't automatically assume they are better than Chaminade. Combined with the home/away factor, I say there's a good chance this is the worst loss ever by an ACC team.

Chaminade over Virginia was probably worse but the extenuating circumstances (and the fact that it was~35 years ago) make that a bit hard to compare.

Of a more recent vintage, #107 Wake lost at home 89-79 to #298 Stetson in Jeff Bzdelik's first game in Nov 2011. They were projected to win by 18. In 2013, #114 VT lost by 3 to #314 UNCG at home when they were predicted to win by 17.

BC has probably had the worst losses in the last few years. The worst by KenPom ranking was to #328 Hartford at home last year. BC lost 65-63. However, BC was ranked #197 at the time and was only predicted to win by 13 (80-67).

GT was #64 last night against #338 Grambling and was predicted to win by 22 (76-54). It's probably a toss up between who was actually worse between Grambling and Hartford. But the fact the 2017-18 GT is much better (even without Okogie) than 2016-17 BC I would say this might the worst loss ever by an ACC team.

Losing on when you tip the defensive rebound into the other team's basket makes it even worse.

[kmspeaks]

Chaminade over Virginia was probably worse but the extenuating circumstances (and the fact that it was~35 years ago) make that a bit hard to compare.

Of a more recent vintage, #107 Wake lost at home 89-79 to #298 Stetson in Jeff Bzdelik's first game in Nov 2011. They were projected to win by 18. In 2013, #114 VT lost by 3 to #314 UNCG at home when they were predicted to win by 17.

BC has probably had the worst losses in the last few years. The worst by KenPom ranking was to #328 Hartford at home last year. BC lost 65-63. However, BC was ranked #197 at the time and was only predicted to win by 13 (80-67).

GT was #64 last night against #338 Grambling and was predicted to win by 22 (76-54). It's probably a toss up between who was actually worse between Grambling and Hartford. But the fact the 2017-18 GT is much better (even without Okogie) than 2016-17 BC I would say this might the worst loss ever by an ACC team.

Losing on when you tip the defensive rebound into the other team's basket makes it even worse.

You mean like this? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXjfhjlYmVQ) Of course that wasn't the end of the game but still worth watching again. :D

[Olympic Fan]

Disturbing -- maybe even tragic -- turn of events early in the NC State-South Carolina State game in Raleigh.

I switched over midway through the first half with NC State up 22-5 ... just as I tuned in, the Pack's Markell Johnson suffered a knee injury. That's not the tragedy. As the cameras were focused on Johnson, a SC State player collapsed in front of their bench. It is obviously something serious ... while little was shown on TV, you could see am EMS specialist pounding on his chest. They worked on him for 15 minutes or so. You could see Kevin Keatts sitting on the SC State bench, hugging the SC State coach. SC State players were in tears -- several went into the stands to hug family and friends.

Both teams left the floor when the stricken player was carted off. The game was delayed another 20 minutes or so.

No word on the identity of the stricken player or his condition. But it didn't look good.

[MChambers]

Hope the stricken player recovers. Wow.

[Troublemaker]

Hopefully this means things will be okay:

Jeff Goodman‏Verified account @GoodmanESPN (https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN) 2m2 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/937018702570098688)
South Carolina State senior guard Tyvoris Solomon was stabilized and taken to a local hospital after collapsing on the bench during the game against NC State.

[olddevil]

And I forgot about an ACC team losing to Wagner in 82 or 83. Surprised that coach didn’t get axed immediately.

I remember that team was haunted by the chant by opposing team fans: : You got beat by Wagner"!!! I also remember when Duke got beat by ETSU at home. I saw that one. It was the beginning of the end for Bucky Waters.

[devildeac]

Disturbing -- maybe even tragic -- turn of events early in the NC State-South Carolina State game in Raleigh.

I switched over midway through the first half with NC State up 22-5 ... just as I tuned in, the Pack's Markell Johnson suffered a knee injury. That's not the tragedy. As the cameras were focused on Johnson, a SC State player collapsed in front of their bench. It is obviously something serious ... while little was shown on TV, you could see am EMS specialist pounding on his chest. They worked on him for 15 minutes or so. You could see Kevin Keatts sitting on the SC State bench, hugging the SC State coach. SC State players were in tears -- several went into the stands to hug family and friends.

Both teams left the floor when the stricken player was carted off. The game was delayed another 20 minutes or so.

No word on the identity of the stricken player or his condition. But it didn't look good.


Hope the stricken player recovers. Wow.


Hopefully this means things will be okay:

Jeff Goodman‏Verified account @GoodmanESPN (https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN) 2m2 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/937018702570098688)
South Carolina State senior guard Tyvoris Solomon was stabilized and taken to a local hospital after collapsing on the bench during the game against NC State.


Just chatted with a former NCSU team MD (orthopedic surgeon) at Harris Teeter and his wife who is a former OR nurse and "inside" reports from the local hospital relayed to them were "stable."

[DangerDevil]

Just chatted with a former NCSU team MD (orthopedic surgeon) at Harris Teeter and his wife who is a former OR nurse and "inside" reports from the local hospital relayed to them were "stable."


Another tweet from Jeff Goodman, sounds like things are as good as could be hoped for, Ty Solomon is apparently awake and responding!

Jeff Goodman
@GoodmanESPN
South Carolina State coach Murray Garvin, at the hospital with Ty Solomon, texted ESPN: “Ty is awake and responding. He says to thank everyone for all the prayers.” Garvin also said that Solomon's heart stopped and he was resuscitated by South Carolina State's athletic trainer.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Another tweet from Jeff Goodman, sounds like things are as good as could be hoped for, Ty Solomon is apparently awake and responding!

Jeff Goodman
@GoodmanESPN
South Carolina State coach Murray Garvin, at the hospital with Ty Solomon, texted ESPN: “Ty is awake and responding. He says to thank everyone for all the prayers.” Garvin also said that Solomon's heart stopped and he was resuscitated by South Carolina State's athletic trainer.

Wow. I can't imagine going back out there to finish the game with something like that.

[Wahoo2000]

Thanks for the praise Wahoo, but I think Virginia will give us trouble. Tony B's D is designed to take away interior baskets and that is what Duke thrives upon. Do you think Wilkins, Salt, and Diatike can clog the lane enough to prevent Carter and Bagley from getting pain baskets and owning the boards?

To me, one good data point is last year's UVA-UNC games where Virginia was pretty successful in keeping the Heels dominant interior players from taking over the game. The Heels won game one thanks to Justin Jackson having a strong game from 3 (4-for-8), they got only 10 ORebs in that game. In game 2, the Heels again could only pull down 10 ORebs and when Jackson had a poor game from the outside (1-6), Virginia won.

-Jason "put another way, I think Allen is the key to beating Virginia" Evans

To answer the bolded question, no - I don't sadly. The UNC data point from last year is only partly relative. Meeks, while a very good rebounder, didn't have the length/athleticism to simply "beat you" on the boards. He had to work for great positioning - something we can deal with. Hicks, I think, COULD have had a monster day on the glass but foul trouble really limited him. Bradley and Maye just weren't anywhere NEAR the caliber/quality of bouncy, quick athletes that Duke will throw at us in their frontcourt (ok, maybe Bradley is a good comp for Bolden, but I think it'll be way more Bagley, Carter, and even some Delaurier that could cause us major issues on the glass). We traditionally have been very strong on the defensive glass, but I don't think we're quite as solid that way this year. And while I agree that Duke's preference for points in the paint is a batter matchup for us in what we try to do defensively, I really think we'll have a tough time keeping Duke from picking up second chance points.

The game is still a looooong ways off and a lot could change for both teams, but if I had to guess today, I'd say our best chances to win lie more in a)hoping that your youthful players get frustrated by the slow pace of the game and the way we grind you, and b)potential foul trouble for any of your top 3-4 guys, possibly and partially as a result of a)
There is also obviously a chance that Allen could just go bananas a-la the MSU game, but I don't even want to think about that. I don't "hate" Allen like it seems every other Duke opponent does, but I'll admit I'm ready to see him go- especially after robbing us in Cameron a couple seasons ago. Just another one of those guys who, when he's on the other team, feels like he's been playing cbb for about 15 years.

[PackMan97]

Could that GAT loss be the worst OOC loss in ACC history?

I'm pretty sure that Gonzaga losing in the NCAAT finals last year might just qualify as the worst OOC loss in ACC history. Followed by Michigan in '93, Michigan State in '09 Illinois in '05, Georgetown in '82 and Kansas in '57.

Just my opinion...but those are definitely the worst OOC losses in ACC history.

[BD80]

I'm pretty sure that Gonzaga losing in the NCAAT finals last year might just qualify as the worst OOC loss in ACC history. Followed by Michigan in '93, Michigan State in '09 Illinois in '05, Georgetown in '82 and Kansas in '57.

Just my opinion...but those are definitely the worst OOC losses in ACC history.

In all fairness, those loses were to teams not burdened by academics, the players only jobs were to play basketball and drive rental cars.

[Olympic Fan]

Pretty tough week for Louisville and Georgia Tech.

Louisville, which lost at Purdue in the Challenge, lost at home today to Seton Hall. Not a bad opponent, but the two losses are likely to drop the Cards out of the top 25.

I hope Virginia replaces them.

Georgia Tech did get a win early in the week, edging Northwestern on a last second shot. Then they lose at home to Grambling -- one of the worst losses in ACC history, Today, the Jackets lost at home to a so-so Tennessee team.

BTW: I checked out the SWAC (to see where Grambling stood) and saw that not a single team in that league has even a .500 record -- and five teams are winless. Grambling's 2-5 record is tied for the best record in the league.

[PackMan97]

Today, the Jackets lost at home to a so-so Tennessee team.

I don't know about that.

Tenn dropped a top 25 Purdue in the Battle 4 Atlantis over Thanksgiving, then lost by 9 to #4 Villanova and beat NC State by 9 to finish that tournament.

[GeneBanksManCrush]

I think #1 UVa (with Ralph Sampson) losing to D-II Chaminade is worse.


IIRC that was one of those nights when Ralph was playing guard.

[BandAlum83]

I just don't see that in the cards. Now, I expect us to win the ACC and be a 1 seed, but I don't think we're going to be hammering the UVAs and Miamis of the conference.

ACC coaches will find a way to exploit our lack of shooting, I think. If the defense isn't better by conference play, we won't win the conference. But I think it will be.

How much better? Based on the KenPom rating?

I think I would take this bet in a heartbeat. We will win the conference on our offense alone. The only question in my mind is by how much.

Or are you referring to the ACC Tourney, in which case it wouldn't really matter how our defense looks at the beginning of conference play (except for seeding)?

[Olympic Fan]

IIRC that was one of those nights when Ralph was playing guard.

The Virginia-Chaminade game back in December of 1982 was interesting in a lot of ways.

Virginia started a run by beating Georgetown and Pat Ewing in what was touted as the Game of the Decade.

Then the Cavs flew to Japan for two games. Ralph was not able to play (intestinal virus), but Virginia still knocked off Houston -- the same Phi Slama Jama team that NC State would beat in the title game -- without Ralph. Then they beat a good Utah team without Ralph to go 8-0.

On the way back home, they stopped in Maui and lost to Division II Chaminade -- with Ralph playing.

Chaminade's center Tony Randolph, who led the Silverswords with 19 points, was from western Virginia and played against Ralph in high school.

The upset produced two memorable things -- it sparked the formation of the Maui Classic and it inspired one of the great quotes of all time. Somebody asked Lefty about the upset and he said, "Well, you know how it is. You go out there and eat raw fish and naked girls walk on your back and anything can happen."

[CDu]

I just don't see that in the cards. Now, I expect us to win the ACC and be a 1 seed, but I don't think we're going to be hammering the UVAs and Miamis of the conference.

ACC coaches will find a way to exploit our lack of shooting, I think. If the defense isn't better by conference play, we won't win the conference. But I think it will be.


How much better? Based on the KenPom rating?

I think I would take this bet in a heartbeat. We will win the conference on our offense alone. The only question in my mind is by how much.

Or are you referring to the ACC Tourney, in which case it wouldn't really matter how our defense looks at the beginning of conference play (except for seeding)?

Umm, you bolded one sentence, but seemed to ignore the next one. Troublemaker said he thinks our defense will be good enough by (or maybe I should say "during", since conference play technically starts this week) conference play to win it.

For there to be a bet, it would have to be a weird contingent bet. Along the lines of "if Duke's defense (per agreed metric of choice) doesn't improve by the end of conference play, will Duke win the conference (regular season/tourney)?" If Duke's defense improves, the bet is moot, as Troublemaker had a key qualifier in there.

[BandAlum83]

Pretty tough week for Louisville and Georgia Tech.

Louisville, which lost at Purdue in the Challenge, lost at home today to Seton Hall. Not a bad opponent, but the two losses are likely to drop the Cards out of the top 25.

I hope Virginia replaces them.

Georgia Tech did get a win early in the week, edging Northwestern on a last second shot. Then they lose at home to Grambling -- one of the worst losses in ACC history, Today, the Jackets lost at home to a so-so Tennessee team.

BTW: I checked out the SWAC (to see where Grambling stood) and saw that not a single team in that league has even a .500 record -- and five teams are winless. Grambling's 2-5 record is tied for the best record in the league.

Virginia was #18 last week and has moved up to 15 in this weeks poll:

NCAA basketball rankings 2017: Duke remains No. 1 while Tennessee joins poll, Louisville exits (https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2017/12/4/16733974/2017-college-basketball-rankings-polls-duke-kansas-michigan-state)

[BandAlum83]

Umm, you bolded one sentence, but seemed to ignore the next one. Troublemaker said he thinks our defense will be good enough by (or maybe I should say "during", since conference play technically starts this week) conference play to win it.

For there to be a bet, it would have to be a weird contingent bet. Along the lines of "if Duke's defense (per agreed metric of choice) doesn't improve by the end of conference play, will Duke win the conference (regular season/tourney)?" If Duke's defense improves, the bet is moot, as Troublemaker had a key qualifier in there.


If the defense isn't better by conference play, we won't win the conference

I saw the next sentence and understand the "qualifier", and my position remains the same. He said by conference play, which would mean (presumably) by the FLA ST game (we won't count the early BC game). We are what, #46 defense in KenPom? I think that's good enough to win the regular season. How much better does it need to get to trigger the bet moot? Top 40? Top thirty? Heck, #45 is "better". Or should we go by metrics?

Sure it's a fuzzy statement, but I totally disagree with it. We are good enough now, and the team has the lock-down-win-at-the-end mentality that will win us plenty of games. Certainly enough to win the conference. Count on it. Bet on it!

[CDu]

I see the qualifier, and my position remains the same. He said by conference play, which would mean (presumably) by the FLA ST game (we won't count the early BC game). We are what, #46 defense in KenPom? I think that's good enough to win the regular season. How much better does it need to get to trigger the bet moot? Top 40? Top thirty? Heck, #45 is "better". Or should we go by metrics?

Sure it's a fuzzy statement, but I totally disagree with it. We are good enough now, and the team has the lock-down-win-at-the-end mentality that will win us plenty of games. Certainly enough to win the conference. Count on it. Bet on it!

Just saying that it isn't a meaningful bet. Especially if one believes Duke's defense will get better (as Troublemaker does). But, by all means, I won't stop you from trying to bet on it. Just don't be surprised if four months from now (when the results of the season will be complete) or potentially even 1 month from now (if you force it to be at the "beginning" of conference play - the timepoint of Troublemaker's "if" is also unclear) you don't have a meaningful bet.

[BandAlum83]

Just saying that it isn't a meaningful bet. Especially if one believes Duke's defense will get better (as Troublemaker does). But, by all means, I won't stop you from trying to bet on it. Just don't be surprised if four months from now (when the results of the season will be complete) or potentially even 1 month from now (if you force it to be at the "beginning" of conference play - the timepoint of Troublemaker's "if" is also unclear) you don't have a meaningful bet.

I don't need to engage in a literal bet. I am merely making a point. We have one heck of a good team right now that has the ability to outscore anyone in the country. And last I heard, outscoring the opponent puts a W on the board.

Sure, I'd love to see 1986 type defense with 8-10 steals and runouts a game, but Johnny and Tommy have exhausted their eligibility (Billy King also), and the game and the rules have changed since then also.