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View Full Version : MBB: Duke 85, Texas 78 (OT) Post-Game Thread



JBDuke
11-24-2017, 08:02 PM
Put your post-game thoughts here.

SCMatt33
11-24-2017, 08:04 PM
There's plenty to say good and bad about this game. But as silly as it sounds, the play that is sticking with me the most is on the final defensive rebound up 4, Bagley had a chance to pass the ball away, but wanted the free throws. He only made one of two, but he wanted them. That tells me a ton.

Troublemaker
11-24-2017, 08:04 PM
Like I said, this was going to be an easy Duke -5.5 cover in our ACC Betting Contest. Never a doubt. (Thanks Javin!).

No but seriously, what a great comeback by our boys. So proud of them.

I'll be watching this one again for sure.

duke4ever19
11-24-2017, 08:04 PM
Whew!

Way to recover from that fright-night of a first half!

Native
11-24-2017, 08:06 PM
Quick thoughts:

1) Really thought the game turned when we – gasp – went to man instead of zone. Real sink-or-swim moment for the guys and they pulled through.
2) What a learning experience for our freshmen. 70-70 with 2:00 even in a big neutral atmosphere without Grayson. Hard to replicate NCAAT conditions more than that.
3) Carter was a bit exposed defensively this game. Javin was being subbed in constantly on defensive possessions down the stretch. Needs to work on his positioning off-ball.
4) Bagley is a baaaaaaaaaad man.
5) Was good to see Trent get that clutch and-1 to knot it up.

FerryFor50
11-24-2017, 08:07 PM
Well that game was... interesting.

Duke went from lost and sloppy to gritty and determined. Lots of things to improve from this game, including transition defense, free throw shooting, decision making on offense and ball movement.

The Bagley three at the end of the game was not a great decision, but I'm glad it didn't hurt Duke in the end.

Bagley is as good as advertised, and Carter seems to close games way better than he starts them.

Was interesting to see O'Connell play more than Delaurier, but he did a great job on the glass. Duval has regressed a bit since the MSU game, which is why he was glued to the bench until Allen fouled out.

Just happy they won the game, but it was terrible for my blood pressure! :)

Doria
11-24-2017, 08:07 PM
Good experience for the team. I’m sure Coach K got a lot of material tonight to work on with the team. Really glad we won!

fuse
11-24-2017, 08:09 PM
Pure, unadulerated thievery.
These games are why everyone hates Duke.

The most encouraging thing to me was the team never gave up.

Really hoping for the MSU Grayson to re-emerge.

I’d say O’Connell must be impressing the coaching staff, and it is easy to see why.
He makes us better when he is on the court.

Whew! What a game.

Bob Green
11-24-2017, 08:10 PM
The freshmen grew up a lot in this game with Grayson Allen unavailable down the stretch. Team development is a work in progress but they put a check in the "never give up" box tonight!

Furniture
11-24-2017, 08:11 PM
You guys in chat tonight ( you know who you are) need to have a large whisky (or the beverage of your choice) and seriously chill out.
Anyway fantastic game. Great win!! I think I will have to watch the second half again!

ehdg
11-24-2017, 08:12 PM
Wow that was some game and loved how our Freshman specially Bagley III came up huge the in the last 10 minutes of regulation and then in OT. Also in OT the Monster put back of his miss by Carter was a Man play!! I think the freshman learned a lot with the end of regulation without Grayson and OT. To be honest I was seriously doubting if they'd come back from that 16 point lead. They just looked so tentative and lost defensively. But then the foul issues for Texas came into play and team seemed to find their place and forced Texas into bad possessions. This team showed me a lot today and if they continue to grow like this it could be really exciting and fulfilling season on a lot of levels!! Btw it once again shows that K and company know how to use Big Men!!!

Wander
11-24-2017, 08:13 PM
Really hoping for the MSU Grayson to re-emerge.


I think you can stop waiting - the comeback happened when we ran our offense through Grayson. He just needs to be smarter about staying on the court...

Troublemaker
11-24-2017, 08:14 PM
1) Really thought the game turned when we – gasp – went to man instead of zone. Real sink-or-swim moment for the guys and they pulled through.

It wasn't an immediate impact by any stretch of the imagination, but yes, eventually we did string together some very good possessions of MTM defense to contribute to the comeback. Of course we then proceeded to give up some easy transition layups that made things much hairier in overtime than it needed to be.

Furniture
11-24-2017, 08:15 PM
On another thought. Who won the Bags v Bambam fight? There was one clear winner.

WHOneedsSOX
11-24-2017, 08:15 PM
Quick thoughts:

1) Really thought the game turned when we – gasp – went to man instead of zone. Real sink-or-swim moment for the guys and they pulled through.

Duke going to have to go man Sunday. Florida too good of a shooting team.

FerryFor50
11-24-2017, 08:15 PM
It wasn't an immediate impact by any stretch of the imagination, but yes, eventually we did string together some very good possessions of MTM defense to contribute to the comeback. Of course we then proceeded to give up some easy transition layups that made things much hairier in overtime than it needed to be.

The biggest mistake of the man defense came down the stretch near the end of regulation when O'Connell tried to go over the screener (for whatever reason) and left Roach with a wide open lane for a dunk, with no one to help.

With Texas shooting not so great from 3 but dunking at will, why not go under the screen?

FerryFor50
11-24-2017, 08:17 PM
On another thought. Who won the Bags v Bambam fight? There was one clear winner.

Definitely Bags, but Bamba was impressive most of the game - especially on his weak side block on Bagley (with 4 fouls, no less) with Duke down 2 in regulation.

UrinalCake
11-24-2017, 08:17 PM
Not sure we deserved to win, but glad we did. Grayson at the point for much of our closing run in regulation was really effective. Our big guys will wear down any team and get them in foul trouble, glad we stuck with the game play even when we were down big and kept feeding them rather than chucking up threes.

We saw both the good and the bad from this team. Loads of potential, but tons of mistakes from everyone including Grayson.

OZZIE4DUKE
11-24-2017, 08:17 PM
Never give up. Never ever give up! LGD GTHc!

hallcity
11-24-2017, 08:18 PM
Tonight’s 85-78 overtime win over Texas is Duke’s sixth-largest second-half comeback in school history. @DukeMBBStats

60sDukie
11-24-2017, 08:18 PM
Whew! Too nervous to watch 2nd half but kept an eye on the score. Afraid i would jinx them so only went back to live with 2 minutes left. Will definitely watch 2nd half later.

rthomas
11-24-2017, 08:19 PM
Never give up. Never ever give up! LGD GTHc!

Classic Duke win.

Troublemaker
11-24-2017, 08:20 PM
I thought two things contributed to the ineffectiveness of zone.
(1) Osetkowski being a legitimate point-forward who could operate in the high post. I had no idea who this guy was until today, but what a high-IQ, fun basketball player that guy is. He makes plays.
(2) Javin being banged up (just about has to be the case) and not being able to go for extended minutes. We really need him on one wing of the zone for it to reach maximum effectiveness.

Furniture
11-24-2017, 08:20 PM
Not sure we deserved to win, but glad we did. Grayson at the point for much of our closing run in regulation was really effective. Our big guys will wear down any team and get them in foul trouble, glad we stuck with the game play even when we were down big and kept feeding them rather than chucking up threes.

Tricky may have struggled a bit the last two games but the good thing is he will learn a lot. I expect a great game from him this Sunday.

TKG
11-24-2017, 08:20 PM
I hammered away on it in Chat and will do so here. Yes, we won and that is always preferable to losing. But our D, both in transition and in half court, is absolutely abysmal.

FerryFor50
11-24-2017, 08:21 PM
I thought two things contributed to the ineffectiveness of zone.
(1) Osetkowski being a legitimate point-forward who could operate in the high post. I had no idea who this guy was until today, but what a high-IQ, fun basketball player that guy is. He makes plays.
(2) Javin being banged up (just about has to be the case) and not being able to go for extended minutes. We really need him on one wing of the zone for it to reach maximum effectiveness.

Javin's banged up? I can't imagine that being the case and K putting him in for the last defensive possession with the game in hand for Duke.

ehdg
11-24-2017, 08:22 PM
The biggest mistake of the man defense came down the stretch near the end of regulation when O'Connell tried to go over the screener (for whatever reason) and left Roach with a wide open lane for a dunk, with no one to help.

With Texas shooting not so great from 3 but dunking at will, why not go under the screen?

Valid point but for what ever reason we did that lot. The ball handler would beat his man off the dribble and then the bigs would part like the red sea for him to get right to the basket without trying to block him or draw a charge. Bigs need to learn to stay home and protect the rim better.

jwillfan
11-24-2017, 08:22 PM
Tricky may have struggled a bit the last two games but the good thing is he will learn a lot. I expect a great game from him this Sunday.

Are we really doing "Tricky"? I have seen the twitter account refer to him that way but...ugh.

We need better/more 3pt shooting to balance the O. Loved the run with Grayson running the team. He needs to be smarter and stay on the floor but he was better than Duval during that stretch.

arnie
11-24-2017, 08:23 PM
When we signed on to the OAD concept, this had to be expected. Horrendous D at times, not understanding how to hustle back and then a ridiculous upside offensively. K has a lot of work to do over the next 4 months; if he gets buy-in from all this team could be special.

Never thought O’Connell would be our best reserve, but sure looked it tonight. Bolden really struggled.

Saratoga2
11-24-2017, 08:23 PM
Incredible game with all the warts of the Duke team on display, but the talent, althleticism, size and depth of the team finally came through for an unexpected win.

Duke's defense is a work in progress with confusion on help defense a major issue. There will be no opportunity for the staff to improve in this regard before the tournaent is over so expect more of the same tomorrow. Our rebounding is good, even against a team that matches us in size like texas. I haven't looked at our stats, but I believe we held our own overall.

The weaknesses of this team is inexperience in general and especially on defense, weak 3 point shooting and FT shooting. Also tonight our PG play didn't look that good. Lots of talent but lack of experience against talented teams.

Our strength is our back line with Bagley and Carter (no one else has that kind of talent) plus depth in the back line with DeLaurier and Bolden.


Tonight our 3 point shooting was off until Grayson finally started to hit. Gary isn't a 3 point shooting and Duval certainly isn't. I would still like to see O'Connell making a try, but he doesn't seem inclined to try at this point and tends not to think shot at this point. Duval really had his problems running the team tonight. I know he has the talent and I haven't looked at his turnovers, but he seemed to be getting into difficulty numerous times tonight.

The guys should be proud of themselves pulling out this win. They don't quit. Now they get some rest with the final game on Sunday.

ipatent
11-24-2017, 08:23 PM
It was a gutty comeback that didn't look very likely when they were down by 16 or so in the second half. Winning a game while shooting 17% from three tells you this is a different type of Duke team. What can you say about Bagley.

Trent didn't hit an outside shot, but he played tough down the stretch.

brevity
11-24-2017, 08:24 PM
You guys in chat tonight ( you know who you are) need to have a large whisky (or the beverage of your choice) and seriously chill out.

I could be wrong, but I don't suspect a lack of alcohol was the problem.

Anyway, I felt outnumbered by the naysayers in there. Clearly REAL Duke fans require Duke to win every minute of the game, and not just at the end of 40 (or 45).

weezie
11-24-2017, 08:24 PM
BOOM. That was fun!


A team is born.

Furniture
11-24-2017, 08:25 PM
Are we really doing "Tricky"? I have seen the twitter account refer to him that way but...ugh.

I do what ever the teams wants.

FerryFor50
11-24-2017, 08:25 PM
Valid point but for what ever reason we did that lot. The ball handler would beat his man off the dribble and then the bigs would part like the red sea for him to get right to the basket without trying to block him or draw a charge. Bigs need to learn to stay home and protect the rim better.

Bigs just seemed to not be paying attention. They were too busy watching their man. They need to build up some better awareness. I think that will happen over the course of the year, but not before they lose a game or two because of it.

FerryFor50
11-24-2017, 08:26 PM
3) Carter was a bit exposed defensively this game. Javin was being subbed in constantly on defensive possessions down the stretch. Needs to work on his positioning off-ball.


I think Carter was getting subbed out on defense because he had 4 fouls.

construe
11-24-2017, 08:27 PM
Loved the run with Grayson running the team. He needs to be smarter and stay on the floor but he was better than Duval during that stretch.

As someone else said earlier, this is how we came back in the 2nd half: Grayson taking the ball up, getting a screen at the top of the key, going to his left, then passing inside to Bagley. Once it worked, you could tell K kept calling that play. (K likes to go with what works.) Who do you think came up with that adjustment? That wasn't even there at the start of the 2nd half was it? So they must've come up with it during the game. Wow.

Of course, once I could see it coming, Smart could, too, so he called a T, then the next time Allen tried it, Texas executed a great trap. Grayson managed to escape it, but then committed his 5th foul as the Texas guards knew where he was going.

Anyway, amazing adjustment by Duke, both then to get back into the game, and then once more once Allen fouled out. Wow again...

BigZ
11-24-2017, 08:28 PM
About the D remember Texas only scored 35 in the second half and overtime

TheOldBattleship
11-24-2017, 08:29 PM
Whew, what a ride! Great, great, great mental toughness to push through another game where not much was working earlier, and against a legitimately good opponent, as well. Bagley and Carter did a great job offensively, and definitely came out as the winners in a really impressive frontcourt matchup. There were some... not great moments defensively (especially with communication on pick and rolls; how many times did our guards force guys to turn down the pick and roll only for the big men to be waiting on the other side to hedge?! My word. Wide open lanes to the hoop, just because of a really basic miscommunication O'Connell and Carter did this at least three or four times, and Roach got a couple of his open dunks that way. Not sure who's at fault there, but yikes. Carter also struggled a bit having quick guys turn the corner on him out on the perimeter). That said, the man to man really came through there towards the end of the game.

He didn't shoot well, but I thought that Grayson looked great when he was out there. But this was 100% a wakeup call for him: he absolutely CANNOT get into foul trouble this year. He has to let those "I'll just take this because it seems weird not to" fouls go, which is definitely hard to do, but still. He's by far our most indispensable player right now. Having him out there, even without hitting his shots, opens up the court SO much for everyone else. He moves off-ball really well, and he draws two defenders a step or two every time he comes off a screen. It helps everyone else out there just an outrageous amount (Carter and Trent in particular, who thrive when they can put a guy on their shoulder/hip). It's no coincidence that we finally got rolling in the second half when he played with Trent and O'Connell. Spacing is tight for us this year, and Texas is one of a very few teams in the country with the length to really make that lack of spacing hurt us, at least until we got them into sufficient foul trouble to get their bigs to the bench.

But overall, what a great learning experience for the team. Thrilled we were able to wear them down and steal this one.

subzero02
11-24-2017, 08:31 PM
I do what ever the teams wants.

If he wants to be called Tricky, I'll call him Tricky.

CarmenWallaceWade
11-24-2017, 08:31 PM
Gritty win. Learn. Grow. More O'Connell.

killerleft
11-24-2017, 08:36 PM
I could be wrong, but I don't suspect a lack of alcohol was the problem.

Anyway, I felt outnumbered by the naysayers in there. Clearly REAL Duke fans require Duke to win every minute of the game, and not just at the end of 40 (or 45).

We do have our Eeyores. Good thing moonpie cancels them out!

FerryFor50
11-24-2017, 08:36 PM
A couple of recruit-related notes about this game...

- Can you imagine if Bagley was still in high school? He's dropping 34 and 11 against Texas. Imagine what he'd be doing against HS competition this year.
- Duke recruited Bamba and Matt Coleman. While it would have been cool to get Bamba, kind of glad we missed on Coleman. I'm sure he'll be a fine player, but we wouldn't have gotten Duval, likely.

WakeDevil
11-24-2017, 08:39 PM
4) Bagley is a baaaaaaaaaad man.


Badder than old King Kong?

Furniture
11-24-2017, 08:40 PM
He didn't shoot well, but I thought that Grayson looked great when he was out there. But this was 100% a wakeup call for him: he absolutely CANNOT get into foul trouble this year. He has to let those "I'll just take this because it seems weird not to" fouls go, which is definitely hard to do, but still. He's by far our most indispensable player right now..

if Grayson doesn't foul Bamba we could have lost....

TheOldBattleship
11-24-2017, 08:41 PM
Also, props to Shaka Smart. The guy is a really, really good coach. They came with a phenomenal game plan, especially in terms of how they attacked our zone and how they defended our shooters (or, today, just shooter?) running off of screens without losing contact with our bigs. Tons of effort, as always with his teams. K was able to outmaneuver him towards the end, as the foul difficulties kept Texas super limited, but man, for a team that shoots as poorly as they do to lead for so much of the game against a team with our talent level is incredibly impressive.

subzero02
11-24-2017, 08:42 PM
Gritty win. Learn. Grow. More O'Connell.

Trent is a better defender than O'Connell but Alex will continue to get playing time if his instant offense production continues. His outside shooting and aggression should be a valuable asset throughout this year.

FerryFor50
11-24-2017, 08:44 PM
Trent is a better defender than O'Connell but Alex will continue to get playing time if his instant offense production continues. His outside shooting and aggression will be valuable this year.

Trent is better than O'Connell all around.

WHOneedsSOX
11-24-2017, 08:44 PM
A couple of recruit-related notes about this game...

- Can you imagine if Bagley was still in high school? He's dropping 34 and 11 against Texas. Imagine what he'd be doing against HS competition this year.
- Duke recruited Bamba and Matt Coleman. While it would have been cool to get Bamba, kind of glad we missed on Coleman. I'm sure he'll be a fine player, but we wouldn't have gotten Duval, likely.

Can you imagine if Duke hadn't gotten Bagley??? Man Duke would've been in trouble.

53n206
11-24-2017, 08:44 PM
You guys in chat tonight ( you know who you are) need to have a large whisky (or the beverage of your choice) and seriously chill out.
Anyway fantastic game. Great win!! I think I will have to watch the second half again!

Damned if I want to watch the first half again.

OZ
11-24-2017, 08:46 PM
Well that game was... interesting.

Duke went from lost and sloppy to gritty and determined. Lots of things to improve from this game, including transition defense, free throw shooting, decision making on offense and ball movement.

The Bagley three at the end of the game was not a great decision, but I'm glad it didn't hurt Duke in the end.

Bagley is as good as advertised, and Carter seems to close games way better than he starts them.

Was interesting to see O'Connell play more than Delaurier, but he did a great job on the glass. Duval has regressed a bit since the MSU game, which is why he was glued to the bench until Allen fouled out.

Just happy they won the game, but it was terrible for my blood pressure! :)

It's called growing up. This tournament is providing just what this team needed... good opponents giving us physical/tense/tough situations. Carter just needs to realize how good and strong he is; and needs to assert himself more offensively and defensively. Though we won without Allen, I don't want to do that very often. He's just going to have to learn to play smart... we really don't have a replacement for him.
Great... gutty comeback... proud of these guys. Freshmen showed us a lot about their courage tonight.

Henderson
11-24-2017, 08:46 PM
That really had a tournament feel. Confidence booster for the freshmen for sure. Every Duke player on the court made some valuable contribution. Assuming he's not too banged up, GA will revert to the mean.

But here's a coaching challenge: How do you get the lads to avoid thinking that they can always make up for poor play early?

subzero02
11-24-2017, 08:46 PM
Trent is better than O'Connell all around.

I completely agree but he has been too passive on offense in my opinion. He has more talent than O'Connell on both ends of the floor. Trent did step up big down the stretch but as strong as he is from the free throw line, he should look to attack more often.

Eternal Outlaw
11-24-2017, 08:47 PM
Props should also be given to the fans behind the bench, they really brought energy and got all the fans in the building to rally behind the guys even when it was at its worse.

FerryFor50
11-24-2017, 08:49 PM
I completely agree but he has been too passive on offense in my opinion. He has more talent than O'Connell on both ends of the floor.

I think his slump is in his head, but I felt like he was fairly aggressive on offense tonight - especially with the and one that fouled Bamba out. I mean, he took 14 shots tonight, which was 2nd on the team. He looked good on the mid-range jumpers, but hopefully regains that pre-season shooting stroke from outside. Duke needs another outside threat.

ncexnyc
11-24-2017, 08:50 PM
I wasn't aware that Texas had a several guards named Moses.

I also didn't realize that William Avery still had any college eligibility left.

All joking aside that was definitely a great effort by a very young team that at times played their age, but when it counted played to their ability.

TheOldBattleship
11-24-2017, 08:50 PM
if Grayson doesn't foul Bamba we could have lost...

Eh, I'll take an extra 5-10 min of Grayson over losing two points there any day of the week. I appreciate the effort he's giving there, but I don't think that the cost is worth the benefit.

dukelifer
11-24-2017, 08:52 PM
Can you imagine if Duke hadn't gotten Bagley??? Man Duke would've been in trouble.

Never know. Javin may have given more. But still Bagley is special.

TNTDevil
11-24-2017, 08:53 PM
Duke going to have to go man Sunday. Florida too good of a shooting team.LOL. Just think if Texas would have been a little better from behind the 3-point line. We get run out of the gym.

Skydog
11-24-2017, 08:56 PM
Purely random thoughts about the game:

If I were a Texas fan I would be pissed that my team choked when the game was on the line. They missed probably 6 gimme layups in the final 7 or 8 minutes. And their ball movement and shot selection -- which was stellar for 3/4's of the game -- suddenly became atrocious. Bamba shooting a 3 toward the end of a one possession game??

Kudos to our guys for comeback. I'm sure the starters were exhausted but didn't give up when were down 16 and we had given up a score on probably 18 of our last 20 defensive possessions. I really thought we were done then. But the players kept fighting and miraculously came back, albeit with some help from Shaka's boys.

BTW how did our early great 10 assists/1 turnover Duval (ave first 3 games) turn into a 4 assist/4 turnover guy (ave last 4 games)? It's not just strength of schedule - our initial stretch of opponents were higher ranked on average (including a top 10 or so Mich St) than the last 4. I noticed from the start of tonight's game that Duval was usually looking to drive as soon as he received the ball. That hurts both the team and his own scoring because it's so predictable; he ended up 2-9 from the field. And only 6 assists (and 6 turnovers) in 38 minutes of play.
Please be your old self Duval!

As much as I like Carter's offensive efficiency he was killing us on defense. His defensive support of his teammates was non-existent!

Bagley is a monster and O'Connell is a magician.

All in all an ugly/great game, if that makes sense.

jv001
11-24-2017, 08:59 PM
Bigs just seemed to not be paying attention. They were too busy watching their man. They need to build up some better awareness. I think that will happen over the course of the year, but not before they lose a game or two because of it.

Great point about our bigs, in particular Carter. He doesn't move very well on defense and I think it's because he seems to have not bought into team defense yet. However I have to remember he's really young and he probably wasn't required to play big time defense in high school. If anyone can get him to buy in, it's our coaching staff. I thought Bilas made a good point tonight regarding our big guys being glued to their own man and not playing help defense. On to the championship game. GoDuke!

Furniture
11-24-2017, 09:00 PM
Eh, I'll take an extra 5-10 min of Grayson over losing two points there any day of the week. I appreciate the effort he's giving there, but I don't think that the cost is worth the benefit.

I actually agree with you!

FerryFor50
11-24-2017, 09:02 PM
Great point about our bigs, in particular Carter. He doesn't move very well on defense and I think it's because he seems to have not bought into team defense yet. However I have to remember he's really young and he probably wasn't required to play big time defense in high school. If anyone can get him to buy in, it's our coaching staff. I thought Bilas made a good point tonight regarding our big guys being glued to their own man and not playing help defense. On to the championship game. GoDuke!

It wasn't just Carter; it was Bolden and Bagley, too. Someone needs to call out the help.

I think Carter moves fine - he's more nimble than Bolden. Just needs better awareness.

heyman25
11-24-2017, 09:03 PM
Character Building Game. Very impressed with the team's comeback and finish.It is only November and Texas was very good. Bagley and Carter power duo will take this team far.

TheOldBattleship
11-24-2017, 09:03 PM
I actually agree with you!

Haha, I guess I'm still so fired up after the comeback that I feel the need to argue even when we agree! Why are we yelling?! (Ignore me.)

jimsumner
11-24-2017, 09:03 PM
LOL. Just think if Texas would have been a little better from behind the 3-point line. We get run out of the gym.

Or if Duke had been a little better from behind the 3-point line . . .

Basically canceled out each other.

jv001
11-24-2017, 09:03 PM
Never know. Javin may have given more. But still Bagley is special.

Yeh, big drop off from Marvin to Javin but you're right Bagley is special. He didn't play like a guy that should be in high school. GoDuke!

TNTDevil
11-24-2017, 09:04 PM
When we signed on to the OAD concept, this had to be expected. Horrendous D at times, not understanding how to hustle back and then a ridiculous upside offensively. K has a lot of work to do over the next 4 months; if he gets buy-in from all this team could be special.

~snip~
This. Exactly. Five freshmen in a pressure-cooker. Had it been a bigger, more crowded arena, it could just have easily gone south on us those last seven minutes.

dukelifer
11-24-2017, 09:05 PM
Purely random thoughts about the game:

If I were a Texas fan I would be pissed that my team choked when the game was on the line. They missed probably 6 gimme layups in the final moments. And their ball movement and shot selection -- which was stellar for 3/4's of the game -- suddenly became atrocious. Bamba shooting a 3 toward the end of a one possession game??

Kudos to our guys for comeback. I'm sure the starters were exhausted but didn't give up when were down 16 and we had given up a score on probably 18 of our last 20 defensive possessions. I really thought we were done then. But the players kept fighting and miraculously came back, albeit with some help from Shaka's boys.

BTW how did our early great 10 assists/1 turnover Duval (ave first 3 games) turn into a 4 assist/4 turnover guy (ave last 4 games)? It's not just strength of schedule - our initial stretch of opponents were higher ranked on average (including a top 10 or so Mich St) than the last 4. I noticed from the start of tonight's game that Duval was usually looking to drive as soon as he received the ball. That hurts both the team and his own scoring because it's so predictable; he ended up 2-9 from the field. And only 6 assists (and 6 turnovers) in 38 minutes of play.
Please be your old self Duval!

As much as I like Carter's offensive efficiency he was killing us on defense. His defensive support of his teammates was non-existent!

Bagley is a monster and O'Connell is a magician.

All in all an ugly/great game, if that makes sense.

You cannot comeback usually without the other team letting down at the end. The most important thing is that they won with game pressure. This won't be the last such game.

Furniture
11-24-2017, 09:11 PM
A link to the presser would be appreciated.

OZ
11-24-2017, 09:11 PM
Or if Duke had been a little better from behind the 3-point line . . . Basically canceled out each other.

...Or from the free throw line... 22-36 (and some of those misses came on the front end and one-and-one)

weezie
11-24-2017, 09:11 PM
...K has a lot of work to do over the next 4 months; if he gets buy-in from all this team could be special...

Sure looked like the down payment was made tonight, but, yes, very early.

And as always, NEXT!


(PS, Those black/babyblue/barf holetar-cheating-fake-butt-place-down-the-road unis are even worse than usual. Hideous yet hilarious. Like your dog hiding under the bed after he's been naughty. Bleech.)

dukelifer
11-24-2017, 09:15 PM
...Or from the free throw line... 22-36 (and some of those misses came on the front end and one-and-one)

Team has a lot to work on, but they fought. That is what good teams do. This team needs a consistent scorer. Allen needs to be that guy.

Stray Gator
11-24-2017, 09:16 PM
In the first half, I commented to my wife that this team seems to be developing a similar vibe and modus operandi as the 2015 team -- starting off slow, trailing at the half, and then ratcheting up the intensity and learning to dissect the opposing defense to make a strong comeback down the stretch, despite suffering some ghastly defensive lapses throughout the game. Someone above expressed concern that the coaches may have difficulty teaching these kids that they can't coast until crunch time. But I really like the fact that this group is cultivating the confidence in themselves to find a way to win if they play through the mistakes, maintain their composure, and continue playing hard.

OZ
11-24-2017, 09:17 PM
This. Exactly. Five freshmen in a pressure-cooker. Had it been a bigger, more crowded arena, it could just have easily gone south on us those last seven minutes.

Arena seats 19,400 (that's fairly large, I think); there were almost 14,000 (and rather vocal those last seven minutes).

Troublemaker
11-24-2017, 09:21 PM
A link to the presser would be appreciated.

https://www.pscp.tv/w/1BdxYMNgvAMxX

gep
11-24-2017, 09:32 PM
Bigs just seemed to not be paying attention. They were too busy watching their man. They need to build up some better awareness. I think that will happen over the course of the year, but not before they lose a game or two because of it.

Even if they won the game, maybe this game can serve as a "loss" as far as learning what to do and better awareness. I'm not sure they have to actually lose a game... at least, I hope so :cool:


You cannot comeback usually without the other team letting down at the end. The most important thing is that they won with game pressure. This won't be the last such game.

When the Texas lead shrank to 4 or so, Bilas commented something to the effect of "let's see how Texas responds to game pressure". I'm really pleasantly surprised to see how Duke's freshmen handled their own game pressure.

lotusland
11-24-2017, 10:00 PM
Pure, unadulerated thievery.
These games are why everyone hates Duke.

The most encouraging thing to me was the team never gave up.

Really hoping for the MSU Grayson to re-emerge.

I’d say O’Connell must be impressing the coaching staff, and it is easy to see why.
He makes us better when he is on the court.

Whew! What a game.

I thought Grayson really spurred the comeback. For whatever reason it just wasn’t Duvall’s night and Grayson played a fantastic couple of minutes at PG. Duvall was huge against Portland State. Anyone can have an off night. This team has weaknesses but man do they have talent.

rickshawboycall911
11-24-2017, 10:00 PM
Lol bamba was not impressive at all.

sagegrouse
11-24-2017, 10:01 PM
Anyone see Alex O'Connell getting so many minutes this season? He played 29 minutes tonight in a game that went to overtime. Not only did he play when Grayson was unavailable, but he also took Duval's place for a good bit of time.

HateCarolina
11-24-2017, 10:03 PM
Or if Duke had been a little better from behind the 3-point line . . .

Basically canceled out each other.

Very true!

I think one of the biggest issues was our poor free throw shooting throughout the game...if we could have hit 50% more of our misses (missed 14 so 7 more made) we could have put this game away with three or more minutes remaining. And more importantly to my family I would not have been pacing around the house like Jack Nicholson in “The Shining” at the end of the game and throughout overtime.

ipatent
11-24-2017, 10:06 PM
Coach K postgame comment:


We gave them a great punch to cut the lead and they punched right back to lead by 16. I thought our kids, it could have
gone that’s it, it’s done. Instead we hit on the trio, with Grayson (Allen) on the ball-handling spot and with Marvin
(Bagley III) and Wendell (Carter, Jr.) down low, there were some magical plays there. Just the connecting of talent and
instinct, really was beautiful for us.

TKG
11-24-2017, 10:12 PM
We do have our Eeyores.!

7837

A self portrait.

Devil549
11-24-2017, 10:15 PM
Two of the worst freshmen defensive players I have ever seen at Duke we’re Robert Brickey and Nate James. Freshmen don’t bring the communication skills needed to play man to man at DI level it comes by working and drilling every day. If you think they play defense in AAU I have some beach front property in Nebraska I will sale you at a very good price.

Coach K knows in this era of one and done he must be more creative defensively, aka play some zone.

dukelifer
11-24-2017, 10:17 PM
Anyone see Alex O'Connell getting so many minutes this season? He played 29 minutes tonight in a game that went to overtime. Not only did he play when Grayson was unavailable, but he also took Duval's place for a good bit of time.

Yes. He would be starting on a lot of college teams. He makes quick decisions with the ball and sees the floor. His passing is instinctual. Duke will need him and he has done enough to show the coaching staff they can trust him in tight games.

InSpades
11-24-2017, 10:25 PM
Things I hated:
#1. The hero ball 3 at the end of regulation from Bagley. We can do so much better than that and I expect more from him.
#2. Grayson's 2nd foul. He's a senior. He *has* to know that he can't foul there.
#3. Some real matador defense at times.

There were definitely more things to like though...

Bagley is of the best freshmen I've ever seen... he's super special.

O'Connell really contributed. Kid is going to be really good at some point in his career (and he's already good enough to contribute which is more than a lot of people thought).

A ton of determination by the entire team. Could have been easy to give up after we made our run and then they stretched it back out to 16.

Survive and advance I guess? We really need to figure out what our problem is early in games.

jv001
11-24-2017, 10:29 PM
Some interesting facts from the game:

Duval played 38 minutes and really played hard but not always smart. He had 6 assists and 6 turnovers. When Bamba fouled out and then his replacement fouled out, we went to Bagley for 2 easy stuffs. Great passes but then Duval went away from getting the ball to Bagley or Carter and I don't think Coach K was happy. Duval only had 4 points, was 2-9 from the floor, 0-3 from 3, 0-4 FTs, 0 rebounds and 3 steals. Lots of teaching moments.

Grayson only played 25 minutes but he made the most of them down the stretch, well except for the charging foul that sent him to the bench for the rest of the night. I hope that Duval got a good look from the bench in how Grayson played the point when Duke caught the Longhorns. He made some nifty passes to our big guys for baskets. Grayson had 12 points, 5 assists, 1 turnover and 3 rebounds in his 25 minutes.

Trent, Jr played 37 minutes and didn't shoot the ball well: 5-14 from the floor, 0-6 from 3, but he hit 7-7 FTs. He also had 8 rebounds, 3 assists and 0 turnovers. He made some big plays late in the game and he finished with 17 points. He's a tough nosed kid.

Bagley was a beast again tonight. He played 38 minutes with: 34 points, 15 rebounds, 12-19 from the floor, 1-2 from 3, 9-13 FTs(improvement), 2 assists, 1 steal, 3 turnovers. And I liked the first thing out of his mouth when he was interviewed by Goodman, he thanked his Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Carter had another steady night. 39 minutes with: 14 points, 6-9 from the floor, 2-6 FTs, 2 assists, 2 steals, 2 blocks, 2 turnovers and 11 rebounds. We have a great 1-2 punch on our front line.

O'Connell had 29 important minutes tonight with: 2 points, 2 assists and 1 turnover. Not much to look at, but his hustle and energy was terrific and I think that it's contagious. He seemed to give the team a lift.

Bolden played 12 minutes and didn't score, had 1 rebound and 1 assist.
Javin played 5 minutes and scored 2 points(2-2FTs) with 2 rebounds.
Goldwire played 2 minutes and had goose eggs except for 1 steal.

Good teaching moments and we still won. On to the Next Play!
GoDuke!

moonpie23
11-24-2017, 10:33 PM
"We're going to win this game!"



don't know why, but like last year (against wake i think) i just felt like we weren't going down tonight.....the texas kids were celebrating WAY to early........atlanta falcons like....


sunday will be the real test.....

SkyBrickey
11-24-2017, 10:33 PM
Looking forward to watching our defense get a lot better this season. We got a glimpse of it the last 6 minutes of regulation when we really locked in...

CoachJ10
11-24-2017, 10:33 PM
So not only do we have to worry about other teams targetting Grayson ... now we have to worry about refs profiling him as well? These last two games the zebras have really messed with him. Somehow I hope he figures out how to handle all of this. It’s coming from every flank.

jimmymax
11-24-2017, 10:34 PM
Trent is better than O'Connell all around.

Except on those plays when he's not.

jimmymax
11-24-2017, 10:36 PM
A link to the presser would be appreciated.

See Twitter.

SkyBrickey
11-24-2017, 10:40 PM
Except on those plays when he's not.

Other than his poor 3 point shooting, Trent has been really good. Unfortunately, this team needs solid 3 point shooting out of him to be great. His 0-6 tonight really hurt us. Let's hope he settles in as the season goes on. He's not missing badly - lots are rattling in and out. Gives me hope he'll figure it out.

Edit: Just looked it up - he's now 30.0% for the season.

A-Tex Devil
11-24-2017, 10:40 PM
I'll be interested to see how Texas plays against Florida/Gonzaga, both of which are more highly rated teams. It's hard for me to know whether Texas just got up for Duke as so many teams do (see Portland St.) or if they might be really, really good. How that game goes will be telling. I love me some Kerwin Roach, and other than some horribly poorly timed missed free throws, he held up well against Duke's guards. Bamba is further along that Myles Turner and Jarrett Allen (the last two UT 1 and done big men) at this point, but he is still pretty raw and tentative on offensive end. If he evolves this year, Duke will not want to see Texas in the tourney. A fully weaponized Bamba/Osetkowski front line will be scary, given Osetkowski's versatility. He's not an NBA player, but if UT can get something from Banks and Sims as year goes on, that's a deep front line.

By the way -- any word why Shaka didn't play Banks at all in overtime? He could have given Bagley a little harder time than Davis/Roach.

CajunDevil
11-24-2017, 10:52 PM
Except on those plays when he's not.

People on this board need to give AOC some credit... it's absurd. It's like people are so locked in to their pre-season minute prediction that they refuse to give the kid some credit. I mean, he played a really good game, and deserves to be sixth man. AOC makes entry passes better than any other Duke player, he wins every 50/50 ball in the vicinity (see that rebound tonight?), and can stretch the floor with the threat of long-distance shooting (something Duke needs). His energy and instincts are top notch.

Ok, now to the game. Last game I said we only need to play zone, and this game I found myself at half say, "let's go man and if we get beat by 30, so be it." There was one defensive possession either late regulation or OT that was a thing of beauty - so we are capable of moving our feet, getting after it, and helping and recover.

Bagley is the best player in the country... easily. Simply amazing!

Carter... loved seeing him follow-up his miss with the strong dunk in OT. Just work on helping on D...

Duval... please run the team like Grayson did

Great comeback, get some rest and get ready to cover some shooters.

tbyers11
11-24-2017, 10:52 PM
I'll be interested to see how Texas plays against Florida/Gonzaga, both of which are more highly rated teams. It's hard for me to know whether Texas just got up for Duke as so many teams do (see Portland St.) or if they might be really, really good. How that game goes will be telling. I love me some Kerwin Roach, and other than some horribly poorly timed missed free throws, he held up well against Duke's guards. Bamba is further along that Myles Turner and Jarrett Allen (the last two UT 1 and done big men) at this point, but he is still pretty raw and tentative on offensive end. If he evolves this year, Duke will not want to see Texas in the tourney. A fully weaponized Bamba/Osetkowski front line will be scary, given Osetkowski's versatility. He's not an NBA player, but if UT can get something from Banks and Sims as year goes on, that's a deep front line.

By the way -- any word why Shaka didn't play Banks at all in overtime? He could have given Bagley a little harder time than Davis/Roach.

Don't have any idea if Shaka addressed it, but it seemed to like he didn't want to put someone in the game at that point who hadn't played at all and he went with Davis when Sims fouled out.

I was really impressed with Osetkowski. I think Texas can be a legit top 25 team.

Re: Portland St. They had a 3 attempt to take the lead with 5 seconds left against Butler. Missed it and lost 71-69

jv001
11-24-2017, 10:56 PM
Don't have any idea if Shaka addressed it, but it seemed to like he didn't want to put someone in the game at that point who hadn't played at all and he went with Davis when Sims fouled out.

I was really impressed with Osetkowski. I think Texas can be a legit top 25 team.

Re: Portland St. They had a 3 attempt to take the lead with 5 seconds left against Butler. Missed it and lost 71-69

It couldn't have happened to a bunch of better trash talking thugs. GoDuke!

jimmymax
11-24-2017, 11:19 PM
People on this board need to give AOC some credit...

Around here we have affectionately nicknamed AOC "Squire", sometimes "Dandy", occasionally "Fop", I prefer "Microwave" in honor of the Pistons' Vinnie Johnson. AOC makes things happen. He feeds the post better than the point guards, cuts to the basket with a purpose, hits open shots, grabs the long rebounds, and most of all, given his sleight frame, shows no fear. We are lucky to have him.

Duke76
11-24-2017, 11:36 PM
I think you can stop waiting - the comeback happened when we ran our offense through Grayson. He just needs to be smarter about staying on the court...

post of the night in my opinion, as he made beautiful assists to the big men, that plus his second half scoring got us close. That play with Trent was a classical call and the call/play of the game imo.

Furniture
11-24-2017, 11:48 PM
Except on those plays when he's not.

The team looked dead and the O'Connell save to Trent to Grayson for 3 was the spark of the comeback!

BLPOG
11-25-2017, 12:20 AM
A link to the presser would be appreciated.

here (http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?id=6228699) you go (different link/video than Troublemaker's)

mo.st.dukie
11-25-2017, 12:34 AM
I'll be interested to see how Texas plays against Florida/Gonzaga, both of which are more highly rated teams. It's hard for me to know whether Texas just got up for Duke as so many teams do (see Portland St.) or if they might be really, really good. How that game goes will be telling. I love me some Kerwin Roach, and other than some horribly poorly timed missed free throws, he held up well against Duke's guards. Bamba is further along that Myles Turner and Jarrett Allen (the last two UT 1 and done big men) at this point, but he is still pretty raw and tentative on offensive end. If he evolves this year, Duke will not want to see Texas in the tourney. A fully weaponized Bamba/Osetkowski front line will be scary, given Osetkowski's versatility. He's not an NBA player, but if UT can get something from Banks and Sims as year goes on, that's a deep front line.

By the way -- any word why Shaka didn't play Banks at all in overtime? He could have given Bagley a little harder time than Davis/Roach.

Texas will not want to see Duke in the tourney. Our team of primarily freshmen and sophomores really have no clue how to play D1 level team defense right now. Texas is good but Duke has a high ceiling.

uh_no
11-25-2017, 01:31 AM
We had zero business winning that game. As good as we were down the stretch, we played 30 minutes of crap bball. I'm sure I'll see a lot of "wow we have guts," but that leads to

a) a belief that we are better than we are, and will pull it out when necessary
b) a lacksidasical attitude of players

We came out like crap again tonight....except instead of being a terrible team, it was texas....and we ought to have lost. If texas had shot a slim bit better (and other shave posted about how many chippies they missed even at the end), we are going home (metaphorically.


We ran into poor shooting and duval turnovers....two things that are unfortnuately becoming a bit of a pattern. Forutnately, texas didn't shoot well enough to make us pay.


we won that game....but we had no business. these guys better shape up....this comeback business doesn't show the team has guts...it shows they aren't good enough to win from the outset.




Now that I have THAT off my chest, hell of a job to come back tonight. I thought for sure we would lose tonight. Not really what I wanted to see after last night, but hard to harp too hard on the freshmen, as I'm sure K will do that plenty. If we continue to come out like this, though, little chance we won't get beat in march.

wavedukefan70s
11-25-2017, 01:44 AM
Just watched the game .cant believe we won .wow

Kedsy
11-25-2017, 01:45 AM
A tale of two defenses. For the first 30 minutes of the game, our defensive rating was an atrocious 1.23, and for the last 15 minutes it was an outstanding 0.61.

I think part of the issue on both sides of the ball was that until their big men fouled out, Texas had about as much size out there as we did and about as much athleticism. It took our guys a while to figure out how to play under those conditions.

Alex O'Connell with 29 minutes and Javin DeLaurier with 5 minutes? Clearly Alex is currently Duke's 6th man, much to my surprise. I will say that if we want to optimize Duke's D this season, Javin needs to play more. I don't think it's a coincidence that our two worst defensive performances came in the two games in which Javin played under 10 minutes.

I also don't think it's a coincidence that we've struggled (relatively) when we shoot a lot of free throws. Our free throw rate tonight was 53.7%, our third game over 50% (in addition to, you guessed it, Southern (66.1%) and Portland State (66.7%)).

Texas outdunked us tonight, 11 to 9.


If I were a Texas fan I would be pissed that my team choked when the game was on the line. They missed probably 6 gimme layups in the final 7 or 8 minutes.

According to the official box score, in the last 8:04 of regulation plus the overtime, Texas only missed two layups, three if you count the blocked dunk with 0:04 left in OT and Duke winning by 7.

Oriole Way
11-25-2017, 01:52 AM
We had zero business winning that game. As good as we were down the stretch, we played 30 minutes of crap bball. I'm sure I'll see a lot of "wow we have guts," but that leads to

a) a belief that we are better than we are, and will pull it out when necessary
b) a lacksidasical attitude of players

We came out like crap again tonight...except instead of being a terrible team, it was texas...and we ought to have lost. If texas had shot a slim bit better (and other shave posted about how many chippies they missed even at the end), we are going home (metaphorically.


We ran into poor shooting and duval turnovers...two things that are unfortnuately becoming a bit of a pattern. Forutnately, texas didn't shoot well enough to make us pay.


we won that game...but we had no business. these guys better shape up...this comeback business doesn't show the team has guts...it shows they aren't good enough to win from the outset.




Now that I have THAT off my chest, hell of a job to come back tonight. I thought for sure we would lose tonight. Not really what I wanted to see after last night, but hard to harp too hard on the freshmen, as I'm sure K will do that plenty. If we continue to come out like this, though, little chance we won't get beat in march.

I haven't posted in nearly a full year, and I'm posting now to respectfully - but also completely - disagree with your statement that the comeback didn't show that the team had guts. The primary impression I took from tonight's game was precisely that this team does have guts. Tonight was one of the most impressive Duke regular season comebacks in a long time. Last year's ACC tournament comeback against Carolina was more impressive in terms of the stakes, but it's very rare to see any team overcome a 16-point deficit with under 11 minutes left to play. And the fact that it was pulled off by a team that is comprised mostly of freshmen is even more rare. In overtime, this Duke team was playing 5 freshmen, and pulled out a 7-point win. That's very impressive. And it took a lot of guts.

uh_no
11-25-2017, 01:56 AM
I haven't posted in nearly a full year, and I'm posting now to respectfully - but also completely - disagree with your statement that the comeback didn't show that the team had guts. The primary impression I took from tonight's game was precisely that this team does have guts. Tonight was one of the most impressive Duke regular season comebacks in a long time. Last year's ACC tournament comeback against Carolina was more impressive in terms of the stakes, but it's very rare to see any team overcome a 16-point deficit with under 11 minutes left to play. And the fact that it was pulled off by a team that is comprised mostly of freshmen is even more rare. In overtime, this Duke team was playing 5 freshmen, and pulled out a 7-point win. That's very impressive. And it took a lot of guts.

I don't believe in guts. Period. I believe in teams that are too lazy to play as well as they can for 40 minutes. I believe in probabilistic models that show streaks of made and missed buckets are more likely to occur than most people expect. I don't believe in guts.

I have nothing against those that do.

If duke can play that way for 6 minutes, they can play that way for 40....and they didn't.


That's up to nobody but Duke.

WHOneedsSOX
11-25-2017, 02:16 AM
Duke is going to have a LOT of trouble with Florida I think. They have a lot of guards who can get to the hole easily and they sure can shoot. Another 17 3's tonight after making 15 last night. Duke 3 point defense is pretty bad so far.

MrPoon
11-25-2017, 02:23 AM
Duke is going to have a LOT of trouble with Florida I think. They have a lot of guards who can get to the hole easily and they sure can shoot. Another 17 3's tonight after making 15 last night. Duke 3 point defense is pretty bad so far.

Florida is a really dangerous matchup for duke. Good gaurds, good defense and they won’t miss open threes.
Need to play better for more of the game.

WHOneedsSOX
11-25-2017, 02:50 AM
Florida is a really dangerous matchup for duke. Good gaurds, good defense and they won’t miss open threes.
Need to play better for more of the game.

Going to be hard to beat them if they outscore Duke by 21+ from 3 and also outscore them at the free throw line.

BandAlum83
11-25-2017, 03:50 AM
Are we really doing "Tricky"? I have seen the twitter account refer to him that way but...ugh.

We need better/more 3pt shooting to balance the O. Loved the run with Grayson running the team. He needs to be smarter and stay on the floor but he was better than Duval during that stretch.

Who Ian tricky?

brlftz
11-25-2017, 03:50 AM
I don't believe in guts. Period. I believe in teams that are too lazy to play as well as they can for 40 minutes. I believe in probabilistic models that show streaks of made and missed buckets are more likely to occur than most people expect. I don't believe in guts.

I have nothing against those that do.

If duke can play that way for 6 minutes, they can play that way for 40...and they didn't.


That's up to nobody but Duke.

i don't like it when fans act like our team doesn't want to win, and lazy is a word that should never show up on here. none of these guys are lazy, and most of them are seeing ball at this level for their second time ever. try rooting for guys that played hard but are still learning.

BigZ
11-25-2017, 04:06 AM
Carter was the key to the turn around.

CajunDevil
11-25-2017, 06:15 AM
I don't believe in guts. Period. I believe in teams that are too lazy to play as well as they can for 40 minutes. I believe in probabilistic models that show streaks of made and missed buckets are more likely to occur than most people expect. I don't believe in guts.

I have nothing against those that do.

If duke can play that way for 6 minutes, they can play that way for 40...and they didn't.


That's up to nobody but Duke.

“I don’t believe in guts.” Wow... Just wow.Real life isn’t about probabilistic models, it’s about guts, emotion, irrationality. Realizing this will make watching basketball that much more interesting and satisfying.

Neals384
11-25-2017, 07:36 AM
Not sure what's going on with Duval - he has the skills. He only went to the bench once - during Duke's 18-4 run to tie the game. Also, I don't recall a Duke point guard missing two free throws in crunch time.

Expecting better from him next time!

Dr. Rosenrosen
11-25-2017, 07:51 AM
I really can’t believe all the negativity about a WIN. And it sounds like I’m glad I missed the chat last night. We shot poorly, turned the ball over too much, played very inconsistent defense and had to rely on five freshmen down the stretch to seal the comeback victory. What’s all the complaining about? Because we again came out flat and didn’t blow out an unranked team? Folks, that was game number seven of a long season. And we WON despite the poor shooting, defense and decision making. The kids showed guts and heart. They grew up a little more last night. This team will learn and progress and do great things. But it will take some time. It’s only November. It will be a journey. Try to enjoy it. Because it will be over before you know it.

CarmenWallaceWade
11-25-2017, 07:54 AM
Also, I don't recall a Duke point guard missing two free throws in crunch time.

Expecting better from him next time!

Through 7 games Duval is shooting 12% from 3pt and 56% from the stripe. The knock on him coming in to Duke was he struggled with his shot. That plus those early numbers should not translate to an expectation that he will make clutch shots for us from those positions on the floor. I wouldn't expect his shooting to drastically change this year. Hopefully it will improve, but looks like a lot of work ahead for him.

On offense Duval's game is getting to the hole and finishing. He is also a very good passer. He needs to learn how to play to his strengths consistently and make smart decisions in this offense. I am more confident he will figure out how to do that as the season goes than I am about him becoming a reliable shooter. We'll see.

superdave
11-25-2017, 07:57 AM
Has anyone noticed that Duval has been hunting his shot more in the past week? He's tried to get into the lane more, and also taken jumpers a little earlier in the shot clock that he was previously doing. Is that tied to Allen having a hurt wrist?

Duval has 12 assists the last three games and Allen has 20. Seems to me that they have flipped roles to some extent, and I dont think that's a good thing. That is also likely why Duval sat and watched for a big part of the comeback last night. He's got to pass first, and he's got to set up the two All-Americans on pretty much every play.

His ball-hounding defense is fun....so kudos for disruption last night.

Bob Green
11-25-2017, 08:01 AM
Expecting better from him next time!

All players have strengths and weaknesses, part of the maturation process is learning to play to ones strengths. Duval is a work in process, which is no surprise seeing as he is a freshman. He will be a much better player come March.

CarmenWallaceWade
11-25-2017, 08:03 AM
Florida is a really dangerous matchup for duke. Good gaurds, good defense and they won’t miss open threes.
Need to play better for more of the game.

I'm glad Duke is playing Florida. This team needs the toughest tests early to help figure out their identity and what to work on. Winning this matchup would be the icing, but I'm more interested in what they learn from it. And just as the first two games have Florida can potentially teach them quite a bit. Huge opportunity for Duke to be playing so many talented teams at this juncture.

Saratoga2
11-25-2017, 08:04 AM
I thought Grayson really spurred the comeback. For whatever reason it just wasn’t Duvall’s night and Grayson played a fantastic couple of minutes at PG. Duvall was huge against Portland State. Anyone can have an off night. This team has weaknesses but man do they have talent.

Trevon seemed to be trying to force the play and wound up picking up offensive fouls and having TO's. It was a learning experience for him and will make him better.

Saratoga2
11-25-2017, 08:13 AM
Except on those plays when he's not.

I would like to see Alex attempt to score more often. Right now he seems like a freshman who defers to others to score. He may well have a good shooting ability. His technique looks sound and he has the size and quickness to get a shot off cleanly. It would give these duke team another dimension if he was a scoring threat from outside.

dukebluesincebirth
11-25-2017, 08:15 AM
Not sure what's going on with Duval - he has the skills. He only went to the bench once - during Duke's 18-4 run to tie the game. Also, I don't recall a Duke point guard missing two free throws in crunch time.

Expecting better from him next time!

He’s a freshman. He led the team in scoring the day before (22 points, 50% shooting). Perhaps we should expect some inconsistencies? I don’t understand your statement about crunch time... no Duke point guard has ever missed critical free throws? I don’t think anything is going on with Tre except for him being a really good PG so far this year who is only going to get better.

DUKIE V(A)
11-25-2017, 08:24 AM
Great comeback against a well-coached, talented Texas squad.

I enjoyed reading everyone's postgame assessments. Here are a few of my observations:

1. We did a much better job of defending Osetkowski during the comeback than earlier in the game. I always felt uncomfortable when he had the ball in his hands. Down the stretch and in OT, he was not getting the ball in very good scoring or passing position.
2. Javin only played five minutes, but they were an outstanding five minutes. I think his contribution/importance to the team is vastly underrated.
3. We lost about five easy baskets on lack of continuation calls or foul calls on Texas just before we had an easy layup. Texas got one questionable continuation call (given how the game was being called) and did not have similar easy basket opportunities lost on late Duke fouls. There was probably a five or six basket disparity on these type plays over the course of the game. Those 10 to 12 points would have been a huge help.
4. The timeout play call to Trent that resulted in the And One to put us up 73-72 is the type of coaching that sets Coach K apart from other coaches. Bigtime!
5. As poor a game as Trevon had, he played hard and had two beautiful passes to Bagley at the beginning of OT.
6. After failing to get the ball to Bagley the first couple times once Texas switched to man in OT, I thought the team was impressive in their patience to get him the ball down low the next time. Credit to the coaches for calling for it and the players for executing. A sign a positive growth.
7. Grayson is a winner. His court vision and basketball IQ is a strength. I thought he let his emotions get the best of him in the first half, but he was very composed in the second half. His interior passing (as well as Bagley and Carter's) is special.

dukelifer
11-25-2017, 08:24 AM
Just finished watching the game. Clearly the D needs to improve. Duke looks like a bunch of Freshman out there that have never played together. Texas plays half court offense well and also has athletes that can run when given the opportunity. I fully expect Duke to get better but it will be a roller coaster for a while. This team can bound from every position and that is good. Also unlike many recent Duke teams- they have the ability to Get easy buckets near the hoop - sometimes with ease. Carter and Bagley are strong with the ball down low. Here are some tweaks needed. Allen has to be a consistent scorer. He started well and has quickly turned into last year's Grayson. Hopefully he is banged up and he will recover. But he needs to get 18 a game- every game. Duval should only take 3's in practice. The shot is not ready for prime time. He needs to pass and penetrate. Trent got 17 but needs to get used to the speed of the game - he has a nice stroke but needs too much time to release. In some ways O'Connell is more ready for the college game but he needs to get much stronger. But unless Trent shoots better- AOC may be a better option down the line in some games. The D is awful right now. That needs time and attention to coaching. Good teams will take Duke apart. Duke needs to focus on D for the rest of the pre ACC season. This team has competitors. That can't be taught. Allen, Carter and Bagley play better with pressure on them. All that bodes well. Again the key is Allen being a rock until the young guys figure it out.

NashvilleDevil
11-25-2017, 08:25 AM
Just curious how many times Duke has been the hottest team in the country to start the season and then they fade once February/March rolls around? I was shocked they won last night. Texas was dunking at will, Oesterkowsi(?) was picking apart the defense with his passing, and Duke could not hit 3s. Yet when it mattered they came back and finished regulation and OT without Grayson. I figured K had plenty of material to teach with a blowout loss or close loss. Now he has plenty of material with a win. I doubt Duke thinks this is how it will go all year. Tomorrow night should be fun.

Furniture
11-25-2017, 08:34 AM
What time is the game tomorrow?

dukelifer
11-25-2017, 08:46 AM
What time is the game tomorrow?

10:30 I believe. Duke will have their hands full with Florida. Not sure how the team will defend all those shooters.

moonpie23
11-25-2017, 08:54 AM
one thing that hasn't really been discussed. (maybe because of our blue glasses) Coach K put one of his patented FACE BLISTERINGS on those refs at the end of the first half.


the game was called much differently in the 2nd half.

MChambers
11-25-2017, 09:17 AM
10:30 I believe. Duke will have their hands full with Florida. Not sure how the team will defend all those shooters.

Goduke.com says 7:30; Verizon listing says 8:30. Maybe we’ll have a consensus tomorrow.

NashvilleDevil
11-25-2017, 09:21 AM
7841

According to ESPN here is the tip time.

WVDUKEFAN
11-25-2017, 09:41 AM
I think it was Jay B that made mention of Grayson's wrist being injured. Does anyone have any details?

curtis325
11-25-2017, 09:41 AM
I don't believe in guts. Period. I believe in teams that are too lazy to play as well as they can for 40 minutes. I believe in probabilistic models that show streaks of made and missed buckets are more likely to occur than most people expect. I don't believe in guts.

I have nothing against those that do.

If duke can play that way for 6 minutes, they can play that way for 40...and they didn't.


That's up to nobody but Duke.

My thoughts FWIW:

I don't believe in guts either, but respectfully I didn't see Duke suddenly decide to not be lazy. Texas is unranked but looks like a quality team with a good coach and they played well and "knocked Duke back" (is that phrase trademarked?). I also don't really believe in momentum, but games do change rather quickly at times and when Duke got close at the end I guess Texas choked. That might be a harsh assessment of the Texas team, and the comeback was aided by their foul problems (maybe I don't believe in choking either).

Sometimes a team gets behind by 16 points and gives up and loses by 25, and sometimes they keep playing hard and lose by 10. Rarely they keep playing hard and get lucky like last night and it was fun to watch for me at least.

weezie
11-25-2017, 09:42 AM
one thing that hasn't really been discussed. (maybe because of our blue glasses) Coach K put one of his patented FACE BLISTERINGS on those refs at the end of the first half.
the game was called much differently in the 2nd half.

Hoo-baby, that was a sweet one.

And how about K's tremendous coaching effort throughout that game. The Ol'Riverboat Gambler showed up once again. Let the team stew during that first half, took only the one required time out and then seconds before the end of half. Second half became a steeplechase race and K held the reigns tight.

We know nothing about the mental set of this team or the trials of learning defense in the deep end of the pool. These kids are adjusting to that jersey and the hatred that greets it each and every time they take the floor. It all looks like fun and excitement from our seats but maybe just a tad more challenging from the team bench.

And it's only November!

Furniture
11-25-2017, 09:50 AM
20 | '14-15 | Okafor 11, Winslow 7, Jones 2
16 | '77-78 | Banks 14, Dennard 2
14| '13-14 | Parker 14
12 | '76-77 | Gminski 12
11| '17-18 | Bagley 5, Carter 4, Duval 2
10|'99-00 | Williams 7, Boozer 3

interesting.

Furniture
11-25-2017, 09:54 AM
#DukeMBBStats
@DukeMBBStats (https://mobile.twitter.com/DukeMBBStats)
Duke will play Florida Sunday in the PK80 Motion Bracket championship game at 10:30pm ET on ESPN. The Blue Devils are 13-4 all-time vs. the Gators.

sagegrouse
11-25-2017, 09:54 AM
Just curious how many times Duke has been the hottest team in the country to start the season and then they fade once February/March rolls around? .

Not sure how to come up with answers to your question -- but here's one approach.

I went back to the 1999-2000 season and looked at the AP ranking of the team at the beginning of the season vs. the ranking at the end of the regular season. No question, in the last two seasons, we performed below expectations. An injury in 2016 (Amile) and tons of injuries last year contributed to the decline.

Otherwise, we have been more likely to improve our ranking than to see a decline. The table shows the year, record, beginning ranking and final ranking (as the ACC tournament begins). For example, we improved five spots or more in 2013, 2010, 2008, 2005 and 2000. We declined five places or more in 2007 and 2003.



Year Record Beg. End
2016-17 28-9 1 14
2015-16 25-11 5 19
2014-15 35-4 4 2
2013-14 26-9 4 7
2012-13 30-6 9 2
2011-12 27-7 6 6
2010-11 32-5 1 5
2009-10 35-5 9 4
2008-09 30-7 8 9
2007-08 28-6 13 7
2006-07 22-11 12 21
2005-06 32-4 1 3
2004-05 27-6 11 6
2003-04 31-6 2 5
2002-03 26-7 6 12
2001-02 31-4 1 3
2000-01 35-4 2 3
99-2000 29-5 10 3

Ima Facultiwyfe
11-25-2017, 10:04 AM
He's been positively neutral in his commentary. Sometimes even complimentary to us. Like he's not bending over backwards anymore in his effort to not appear to be a homer.

Jay Williams still needs to grow up though, bless his heart.
Love, Ima.

campered
11-25-2017, 10:30 AM
Javin's banged up? I can't imagine that being the case and K putting him in for the last defensive possession with the game in hand for Duke.

I remember in the previous game with Portland State, the announcers stating that Javin was banged up, not able to come down the floor. He was holding his arm or wrist area, I think. Don't know if this is a lingering problem or not, but he definitely was in some distress. But, if Coach puts him in, he expects him to perform.

Wander
11-25-2017, 10:36 AM
I don't believe in guts. Period. I believe in teams that are too lazy to play as well as they can for 40 minutes. I believe in probabilistic models that show streaks of made and missed buckets are more likely to occur than most people expect. I don't believe in guts.

If duke can play that way for 6 minutes, they can play that way for 40...and they didn't.


Yes, sometimes people get a little too excited about statistical flukes and see patterns when none are there. But that is not what happened in this game. There were clear basketball reasons for our stretches of great basketball that won us the game:

1. We made the comeback in the last ~7 minutes of regulation because Grayson was actually on the court and we ran offense through him.
2. We dominated overtime because with Bamba out it was an easy decision to try to go to Bagley every time on offense, and it worked perfectly.

So, I guess whether "guts" goes into the win was subjective, but it wasn't about statistical flukes or a surge of effort after mostly lazy play like you're suggesting.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-25-2017, 10:51 AM
I think it was Jay B that made mention of Grayson's wrist being injured. Does anyone have any details?

No details, but on the infamous "clapping technical" play, he caught himself on his hands rather than landing hard on his rear.

Not any insider info, just something I saw on the multiple replays.

mgtr
11-25-2017, 10:51 AM
Wonderful that we won, and contributions were made by many. However, there was a lot of one-on-one play, many unassisted baskets, and little defense. In short, it looked like an AAU game or all-star game. Be great if the team had no games for a week and could practice without playing. No such luck until part of the Christmas break. Fortunately, we have a coach who is the GOAT, so he can (we hope) bring them along.
I marvel at how well this team does and how good they may be by tournament time.

tbyers11
11-25-2017, 11:01 AM
I don't believe in guts. Period. I believe in teams that are too lazy to play as well as they can for 40 minutes. I believe in probabilistic models that show streaks of made and missed buckets are more likely to occur than most people expect. I don't believe in guts.

I have nothing against those that do.

If duke can play that way for 6 minutes, they can play that way for 40...and they didn't.


That's up to nobody but Duke.

I agree 100% that I would like Duke to play more consistently. And play better more consistently. Points and fouls at the start of the game count as much as at the end of the game. We can't wait to flip a switch against good teams.

However, I strongly disagree with the suggestion that Duke was too lazy to play as well as they can for 40 minutes. First, that is a discredit to Texas who had a very good game plan and executed very well in the first half. As for Duke itself, we need better patience, ball movement, and shot selection on the offensive end. We need better transition defense and better communication in the half court. We also need our senior leader and All-American to be smarter and stay on the court. Grayson's 2nd foul on the Bomba breakaway in the first half was the REALLY dumb foul in my opinion. We need to play better and smarter from the start but I don't think there was a lack of effort on Duke's part.

As for "guts" or "game pressure", probabilistic streaks of misses and makes probably do occur more often than most expect. If all possessions occurred in a vacuum where the score was always tied and there was no crowd I agree there would be very little effect of game pressure. However, I strongly feel that possessions in the last 5 minutes of a close game are wholly different than possessions in the first 5 minutes of a game because of game pressure. I would prefer that we were protecting a 6 point lead instead of coming back from down 6 in the last 5 minutes but que sera sera. However, coming back and finishing the comeback shouldn't be discredited as a major accomplishment for this very young team because they didn't play well from the start. I think the coaching staff will reinforce the latter but I also think they will celebrate the former.

Hauerwas
11-25-2017, 11:08 AM
I'm convinced that freshman simply cannot play K's style of defense and so the last few seasons we've seen porous D much of the season, except for when the 2015 finally figured it out in late February and March. It will be interesting to see if this team can as well because the first 30 minutes of this game we made an overweight white dude the Heisman Trophy winner. Thankfully, we rebound the ball well, but even Texas got a ton of second chance opportunities because Duval was leaking out.

Duval is still too soft with the ball, he looks like he's playing an AAU tournament game the way he brings it up. Allen took over the point and actually is the reason we came back and won. he drove the lane well, dished and made a couple of pull up jumpers. Nice to have his experience at that position when Duval is still a work in progress. Seeing 5 freshman on the court for the last 8 minutes or so impressive, the stage did not look too big for them. I'm still amazed Texas didn't double Bagley in OT, Shaka got out coached completely. He made zero adjustments, or maybe he just has less personnel to work with.

O'Connell continues to impress. he just brings life to the group and seems to simply enjoy playing. I had no idea he would make this much of an impact this early...

Great win with tons of teachable opportunities. I do like our killer instinct though.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-25-2017, 11:13 AM
A serious bunch of Negative Nellies on this board. We played a darn tough team, that was well-coached with size and talent who knocked us on our butts for most of the game. Then, we put on our big boy pants, fought back, made a few buckets, had some big stops, and got in their heads.

That's the advantage of having K and those four letters across the chest - most of our opponents are waiting for us to make those runs and those plays, and it shakes their confidence.

Texas absolutely should have won last night, but when the lead went from sixteen to six, the were shaken and got away from what worked. Our confidence grew each time down the court, theirs shrank. Once we got to OT, it should have been very tight - each team missing their motor guy - but we won going away.

Henderson
11-25-2017, 11:19 AM
I was impressed by the play of this guy. Tulane transfer. I thought he made a big difference in the game, both offensively and defensively. He was on Bagley most of the game, and the stat sheet tells the tale of talent. But still...

I watched him in one other game and he seemed disjointed. In this game, he seemed intensely engaged and played well. There were several plays, both offensively and defensively, where he showed big time.

Some of his man defense against Bagley was as good as it could be, even when Bagley ended up scoring.

tbyers11
11-25-2017, 11:19 AM
Wonderful that we won, and contributions were made by many. However, there was a lot of one-on-one play, many unassisted baskets, and little defense. In short, it looked like an AAU game or all-star game. Be great if the team had no games for a week and could practice without playing. No such luck until part of the Christmas break. Fortunately, we have a coach who is the GOAT, so he can (we hope) bring them along.
I marvel at how well this team does and how good they may be by tournament time.

The lack of patience on the offensive end did lead to a lot of one-on-one play. We can get away with "good" shots against Southern or Portland St because of the talent differential. That isn't going to work well against Texas and better teams going forward. We need ball movement to make the defense work. This will lead to "better" shots.

Duval was guilty of this quite a bit. When Coach K subbed him out with 8:51 left and let Grayson run point, we had a lot of better offense and assists. Bagley even got into the mood when he turned down a good shot to pass to Carter for a great shot. Hopefully those sequences are teaching moments that can be backed up with video.

Ultrarunner
11-25-2017, 11:26 AM
Wonderful that we won, and contributions were made by many. However, there was a lot of one-on-one play, many unassisted baskets, and little defense. In short, it looked like an AAU game or all-star game. Be great if the team had no games for a week and could practice without playing. No such luck until part of the Christmas break. Fortunately, we have a coach who is the GOAT, so he can (we hope) bring them along.
I marvel at how well this team does and how good they may be by tournament time.

We had 21 assists on 27 made shots. We have flaws but sharing the ball isn't one of them.

Just a note on Grayson - he is getting the living heck beat out of him every play. One of Duval's TO's early in the second half came when a Texas player tried to yank Grayson's arm from the shoulder socket. The entire crowd saw it but somehow the refs didn't.

On a related note, I know block/charge is the toughest call in sports to make. I don't think I'm asking too much for consistency. If Grayson charged for his fifth, Coleman charged at :17 left in the game. Instead, Duval gets called for a block.

uh_no
11-25-2017, 11:27 AM
However, I strongly disagree with the suggestion that Duke was too lazy to play as well as they can for 40 minutes.

I don't think "lazy" was probably the right thing to say. In duke's case last night, the reasons to some degree had a lot to do with personnel. I think texas missing a ton of shots down the stretch would fall into the second category I specified, and that certainly applied last night more than anything else.

I do think there has been a general lack of urgency in our play at times, and unfortunately, the fact that we HAVE come back is somewhat of a feedback loop....someone is going to kick our buts this year. it will be ugly. it might be tomorrow.

tbyers11
11-25-2017, 11:58 AM
I don't think "lazy" was probably the right thing to say. In duke's case last night, the reasons to some degree had a lot to do with personnel. I think texas missing a ton of shots down the stretch would fall into the second category I specified, and that certainly applied last night more than anything else.

I do think there has been a general lack of urgency in our play at times, and unfortunately, the fact that we HAVE come back is somewhat of a feedback loop...someone is going to kick our buts this year. it will be ugly. it might be tomorrow.

Agree on the lack of urgency. Frequently, a loss is needed to prove a point. Hopefully, the near loss that last night will help prove the point that we can't wait to flip the switch

summerwind03
11-25-2017, 12:04 PM
Both games tomorrow are in the same arena, right? So doesn't that mean our game won't start until at least 11?

tbyers11
11-25-2017, 12:08 PM
Both games tomorrow are in the same arena, right? So doesn't that mean our game won't start until at least 11?

Good point. I hadn't realized that UNC-Mich St was also in the MODA center. Yeah, we are looking at about an 11pm ET tip.

NM Duke Fan
11-25-2017, 12:09 PM
I was impressed by the play of this guy. Tulane transfer. I thought he made a big difference in the game, both offensively and defensively. He was on Bagley most of the game, and the stat sheet tells the tale of talent. But still...

I watched him in one other game and he seemed disjointed. In this game, he seemed intensely engaged and played well. There were several plays, both offensively and defensively, where he showed big time.

Some of his man defense against Bagley was as good as it could be, even when Bagley ended up scoring.

He certainly caused Duke some problems! He has been flying below the radar with many, but not all:

"Texas junior Dylan Osetkowski on Thursday was named one of 20 watch list members for the 2018 Karl Malone Power Forward of the Year Award...

Coach Shaka Smart hailed the 6-foot-9, 245-pound forward as the "conductor" of this offense and potentially its most vital cog.

"Dylan is the best offensive engine that we have," Smart said. "He won't be our leading scorer, but he creates a lot of great things for other people. He's poised...

"Part of the reason why I chose Texas was because of Dylan," Bamba said. "Dylan can play up high, down low, anywhere. This summer Dylan has really helped me bring my game to new heights as far as popping out and in the deep post."

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/college_sports/longhorns/article/Texas-Dylan-Osetkowski-named-to-Karl-Malone-12291703.php

rickshawboycall911
11-25-2017, 12:12 PM
this team is alot of square pegs in round wholes.
im not feeling it wqith this team
florida is going to show us the business and run us out of the gym tomorrow night

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-25-2017, 12:13 PM
this team is alot of square pegs in round wholes.
im not feeling it wqith this team
florida is going to show us the business and run us out of the gym tomorrow night

Your optimism is duly noted. Don't worry, when we lose several games in a row, you will have the right to come back and brag that you told us so.


Seriously man, what are you doing here?

BandAlum83
11-25-2017, 12:20 PM
this team is alot of square pegs in round wholes.
im not feeling it wqith this team
florida is going to show us the business and run us out of the gym tomorrow night

I came so close to flaming you for this, but then thought we all have a right to our opinions. I just wish you wouldn't voice yours on this thread at this time.

Maybe just tell your dog and no one else next time?

moonpie23
11-25-2017, 12:24 PM
this team is alot of square pegs in round wholes.
im not feeling it wqith this team
florida is going to show us the business and run us out of the gym tomorrow night

what do you mean, "us"...??

juise
11-25-2017, 12:36 PM
Good point. I hadn't realized that UNC-Mich St was also in the MODA center. Yeah, we are looking at about an 11pm ET tip.

Yes, it's session 12, which contains both championship games. There were a ton of Gonzaga fans yesterday, so that session (combined with the UNC fans) would have been extremely hostile had the Zags won. Hoping the cheats loses (of course) and the light blue filters out. I will be in the building cheering loudly for a Sparty victory.

NM Duke Fan
11-25-2017, 12:43 PM
Norlander has a good article up on the Duke-TX game, with special emphasis on Bagley:

"It's simply incredible," Allen said. "He's not hitting step-back jumpers, he's not doing anything crazy. Everything is just super efficient, super simple but at the same time unstoppable because of who he is, his athleticism. I think he'll continue to have performances like this, we're content to tell him to demand the ball. I think he needs to do it even more than he did tonight. Just keep going through him and making the defense figure out a way to stop him."

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/grayson-allen-is-good-but-dukes-other-star-marvin-bagley-is-already-shining-bright/

kmspeaks
11-25-2017, 12:46 PM
I don't think "lazy" was probably the right thing to say. In duke's case last night, the reasons to some degree had a lot to do with personnel. I think texas missing a ton of shots down the stretch would fall into the second category I specified, and that certainly applied last night more than anything else.

I do think there has been a general lack of urgency in our play at times, and unfortunately, the fact that we HAVE come back is somewhat of a feedback loop...someone is going to kick our buts this year. it will be ugly. it might be tomorrow.

I wonder if it's not so much laziness or a lack of urgency as it is being unsure. The freshmen are still having to think through where they should be on every cut, pass, and drive so they move slowly.

peterjswift
11-25-2017, 12:48 PM
I also don't think it's a coincidence that we've struggled (relatively) when we shoot a lot of free throws. Our free throw rate tonight was 53.7%, our third game over 50% (in addition to, you guessed it, Southern (66.1%) and Portland State (66.7%)).



Strangely enough, some of Duke’s best offense came off of missed free throws. I didn’t keep track, but during the comeback and overtime, I think there were either three or four rebounds on missed free throws. One of them lead to a three from the corner. One of them was tipped out of bounds by Texas, leading to a fresh possession. I think all of them lead to points by Duke.

I was very impressed by the offensive rebounding down the stretch, and collecting those missed free throws and turning it into points is an absolute back-breaker for the opposition. Just like how Glenn Davis (Big Baby) turned a missed FT into an easy bucket back in, I think, 2005? It ruined any possibility of a comeback against LSU.

ncexnyc
11-25-2017, 12:54 PM
Last time I checked, basketball games are played by people. When I hear someone say that "guts" doesn't exist and it's all about statistics I have to wonder have they ever played a sport competitively in their entire life. I know Jay Bilas has lost a lot of fans on this board, but even he talked about how Texas would respond to the "game pressure" down the stretch when we made our run.

Yes, there are times when you can take a win for granted and I'm sure that happens with confident young men, but it also happens with fans on this very board who seem to expect Duke to steamroll their way through every opponent. Maybe, just maybe we aren't as good as some of you believe and maybe the opposition isn't as bad as some of you believe.

I've also seen some discussion about the minutes for Javin and Alex. It would be awesome if we could roll those two kids into one player, but that isn't possible. We have to understand that each of them brings something different to the table and that Coach K has to make the call on which one is best suited for the occasion at hand. Alex seems to be more of the the offensive spark plug, while Javin seems to be called on when the defense needs a shot of energy. Both will get their minutes as the season progresses and it doesn't have to be a case of one or the other for the fans.

BandAlum83
11-25-2017, 12:54 PM
Strangely enough, some of Duke’s best offense came off of missed free throws. I didn’t keep track, but during the comeback and overtime, I think there were either three or four rebounds on missed free throws. One of them lead to a three from the corner. One of them was tipped out of bounds by Texas, leading to a fresh possession. I think all of them lead to points by Duke.

I was very impressed by the offensive rebounding down the stretch, and collecting those missed free throws and turning it into points is an absolute back-breaker for the opposition. Just like how Glenn Davis (Big Baby) turned a missed FT into an easy bucket back in, I think, 2005? It ruined any possibility of a comeback against LSU.

I guess we have the "1 second on the clock missed free throw on purpose put-back play" down cold.

peterjswift
11-25-2017, 12:59 PM
I guess we have the "1 second on the clock missed free throw on purpose put-back play" down cold.

I really hope there are no opportunities to find out!


Side note: one of my most entertaining memories of watching a WVU basketball game was Pitsnogle attempting to miss a free throw in, I think, a Big East tournament game. He chucked it hard (no doubt trying to nail the rim), and the ball banks right in. Everyone seemed surprised.

duke74
11-25-2017, 01:05 PM
this team is alot of square pegs in round wholes.
im not feeling it wqith this team
florida is going to show us the business and run us out of the gym tomorrow night

Don’t feed the troll.

I’m still looking for the “whole.” All of it? Or “alot.” Geesh. Almost literate.

NYBri
11-25-2017, 01:06 PM
Wonderful that we won, and contributions were made by many. However, there was a lot of one-on-one play, many unassisted baskets, and little defense. In short, it looked like an AAU game or all-star game. Be great if the team had no games for a week and could practice without playing. No such luck until part of the Christmas break. Fortunately, we have a coach who is the GOAT, so he can (we hope) bring them along.
I marvel at how well this team does and how good they may be by tournament time.

AOC was best at catching and passing in the first half. The only one seemingly not playing an AAU game.

peterjswift
11-25-2017, 01:16 PM
In this thread I see a lot of people pointing out different turning points in the game, and giving credit to various players, strategies or Coach K.

I would like to offer another alternative. For my birthday back in June, my daughters made a Duke Basketball sign and told me to save it for when I was watching Duke games. I brought it out last night, since we were all watching the game together. At halftime, my girls disappeared to their playroom with my sign. With about 10 minutes left in regulation, they returned to the living room with freshly made signs so that everyone could have one - even making some for folks not present for the game.

While I don’t want to claim credit for the victory, being 3000 miles away and having some degree of logic and reason, it seems irresponsible to ignore the possibility.

Here are our signs - the plain one is mine from June. The “Apple” style is the template for the many signs they made to share.
78437844

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-25-2017, 01:17 PM
In this thread I see a lot of people pointing out different turning points in the game, and giving credit to various players, strategies or Coach K.

I would like to offer another alternative. For my birthday back in June, my daughters made a Duke Basketball sign and told me to save it for when I was watching Duke games. I brought it out last night, since we were all watching the game together. At halftime, my girls disappeared to their playroom with my sign. With about 10 minutes left in regulation, they returned to the living room with freshly made signs so that everyone could have one - even making some for folks not present for the game.

While I don’t want to claim credit for the victory, being 3000 miles away and having some degree of logic and reason, it seems irresponsible to ignore the possibility.

Here are our signs - the plain one is mine from June.
78437844

Well, no one can besmirch your guts or effort.

mkirsh
11-25-2017, 01:37 PM
I've also seen some discussion about the minutes for Javin and Alex. It would be awesome if we could roll those two kids into one player, but that isn't possible. We have to understand that each of them brings something different to the table and that Coach K has to make the call on which one is best suited for the occasion at hand. Alex seems to be more of the the offensive spark plug, while Javin seems to be called on when the defense needs a shot of energy. Both will get their minutes as the season progresses and it doesn't have to be a case of one or the other for the fans.

I thought the Alex/Javin minutes distribution last night was very intriguing. I’m a huge fan of Alex, and think he is an offensive savant - always in the right place and scores super efficiently. However is defense is really raw right now. He sees to have the Marty Pocious bouncing syndrome, and was blown by repeatedly for dunks. I believe the coaches will get him there because of his athleticism and high b-ball IQ but he has a ways to go. Javin is the opposite - he’s a defensive wrecking ball but is very limited on O. Historically we’ve seen K heavily favor defense over offense, but the last few days have been an interesting departure. Maybe the zone changes his calculus? Maybe Javin is really nursing an injury? I’m intereted to see how this plays out over the season.

Also, with the mtm defense, in past games Duke has switched all screens, but last night they were hedging for the most part (my guess is they wanted to avoid size mismatches). However the one possession late in the game where Duke got a key stop they went back to switching everything. I would imagine vs Florida we will see switching to prevent shooters from getting looks but interested to see how this evolves

proelitedota
11-25-2017, 02:05 PM
Florida is really short. Duvall will be able to cover their PF who is 6-5 205. Expect us to switch 1-4.

Fish80
11-25-2017, 02:09 PM
In this thread I see a lot of people pointing out different turning points in the game, and giving credit to various players, strategies or Coach K.

I would like to offer another alternative. For my birthday back in June, my daughters made a Duke Basketball sign and told me to save it for when I was watching Duke games. I brought it out last night, since we were all watching the game together. At halftime, my girls disappeared to their playroom with my sign. With about 10 minutes left in regulation, they returned to the living room with freshly made signs so that everyone could have one - even making some for folks not present for the game.

While I don’t want to claim credit for the victory, being 3000 miles away and having some degree of logic and reason, it seems irresponsible to ignore the possibility.

Here are our signs - the plain one is mine from June. The “Apple” style is the template for the many signs they made to share.
78437844

My daughter also played valuable minutes. When we needed help, she rubbed my bald head. Powerful mojo.

uh_no
11-25-2017, 03:09 PM
I wonder if it's not so much laziness or a lack of urgency as it is being unsure. The freshmen are still having to think through where they should be on every cut, pass, and drive so they move slowly.

I like that idea.

Bottom line is we need to play better, and putting yourself in a situation where you need to depend on "guts" means you needed to play better earlier in the game.

MrPoon
11-25-2017, 03:38 PM
Rewatched some of the last half and OT.
One quiet piece was noticed was I think our guys were more fit. Our size really wore down Texas late. Their big guy was playing really well but as the second half moved late, he really struggled to get rebounds and coudn’t finish a few “bunnies” as Jay called them. Really pleased, especially with Carter who said in one of the early season videos that was a big focus of his.

AOC really had a nice game and with the guard focus of Florida I suspect you’ll see him again more than Javin.

I am also surprised by the lack of Bamba discussion on the board. After the game I found an article (https://www.thescore.com/news/1430475) with a post match-up NBA review and it was very favorable to Bamba. Great athleticism, elite rebounding, not great offensively but FT shooting say he will be. Whereas the article said Bagley’s shooting isn’t as good, his defense is lacking and he isn’t the elite rebounder that Bamba is. Don’t know the site, maybe written by Texas fan?

Maybe there are those on the board with a different view but I was surprised with the noise around Bamba. Good rebounding but Bagley and Carter had massive days (48pts, 26 rb, 18-28). Yes Bamba had a great block (2 total) but he also had 5 fouls to get the two blocks. I don’t know if there is a stat tracking that but doesn’t seem “efficient”. Not to mention one of the key plays in the game was Trent’s layup on Bamba. Sure he wasn’t on the floor for every moment and can’t play both of them but for this high pick I thought the impact wasn’t nearly as much as I expected. He had 10 rebounds but all defensive.

Not saying the kid isn’t good but can’t believe he was even in the conversation with Bagley.

G man
11-25-2017, 03:38 PM
Those posters who don't believe in momentum or heart I would guess have never played sports. I played small college ball, and even at that level momentum can be felt. Sometimes you feel like the basket is tiny. Then there are parts of the game you can't miss. So when a team is down double digits and that deficit is growing it is really east to mail it in. Games like that are good for a young team, because you aren't always going to be up 20 cruising. You need to understand how to crawl back into a game and finish strong.

uh_no
11-25-2017, 03:42 PM
Rewatched some of the last half and OT.
One quiet piece was noticed was I think our guys were more fit. Our size really wore down Texas late. Their big guy was playing really well but as the second half moved late, he really struggled to get rebounds and coudn’t finish a few “bunnies” as Jay called them. Really pleased, especially with Carter who said in one of the early season videos that was a big focus of his.

AOC really had a nice game and with the guard focus of Florida I suspect you’ll see him again more than Javin.

I am also surprised by the lack of Bamba discussion on the board. After the game I found an article (https://www.thescore.com/news/1430475) with a post match-up NBA review and it was very favorable to Bamba. Great athleticism, elite rebounding, not great offensively but FT shooting say he will be. Whereas the article said Bagley’s shooting isn’t as good, his defense is lacking and he isn’t the elite rebounder that Bamba is. Don’t know the site, maybe written by Texas fan?

Maybe there are those on the board with a different view but I was surprised with the noise around Bamba. Good rebounding but Bagley and Carter had massive days (48pts, 26 rb, 18-28). Yes Bamba had a great block (2 total) but he also had 5 fouls to get the two blocks. I don’t know if there is a stat tracking that but doesn’t seem “efficient”. Not to mention one of the key plays in the game was Trent’s layup on Bamba. Sure he wasn’t on the floor for every moment and can’t play both of them but for this high pick I thought the impact wasn’t nearly as much as I expected. He had 10 rebounds but all defensive.

Not saying the kid isn’t good but can’t believe he was even in the conversation with Bagley.

http://www.nbadraft.net/2018mock_draft

They're viewed pretty comparably.

Wander
11-25-2017, 03:47 PM
Bottom line is we need to play better, and putting yourself in a situation where you need to depend on "guts" means you needed to play better earlier in the game.

Sure, but in this particular case, "playing better earlier" just means Grayson not getting into foul trouble. If he plays his usual minutes, I doubt we're having this conversation because we'd have a small lead throughout the entire 2nd half.

uh_no
11-25-2017, 03:49 PM
Sure, but in this particular case, "playing better earlier" just means Grayson not getting into foul trouble. If he plays his usual minutes, I doubt we're having this conversation because we'd have a small lead throughout the entire 2nd half.

duke was already down 11-4 when grayson picked up his second foul.

UrinalCake
11-25-2017, 04:07 PM
Alex gave really good minutes when grayson went out. Given how dependent our team has been on Grayson, it was a huge “developmental milestone” that we pulled this out playing most of the game without him. We’re still a team of freshmen though; in the OT there was a moment when play stopped and all our players were just wandering around, Grayson was yelling from the sideline for them to huddle up. Little things like getting to a huddle we sort of take for granted but it’s up to the leaders on the court to do those things and for most of the game that leader was on the sidelines.

Bamba has a ton of potential and I think he fits better into the NBA mold of what they want out of a center. Defense, outside shooting, and free throws are at a premium, and for that reason I think he may be drafted higher than Bagley. Kind of like Okafor vs. Towns in how they were viewed coming into the draft. Imagining a front line of Bamba and Carter is scary on the defensive end, but if he had come to Duke then Bagley would not have so I think it worked out well for everyone.

Also this is a really minor thing but I loved the Delaurier block at the very end of the game. He wasn’t going to allow Texas to get some highlight reel dunk unguarded.

CajunDevil
11-25-2017, 04:13 PM
duke was already down 11-4 when grayson picked up his second foul.

I just don’t get why 18 year old kids don’t play perfect basketball... makes no sense. They should never lose or get down on the scoreboard, never get beat off the dribble, never miss a blockout, never fail to rotate on helpside D, always hit their threes and FTs - but that certainly wouldn’t be enough for more than a handful on this board.

Wander
11-25-2017, 04:28 PM
duke was already down 11-4 when grayson picked up his second foul.

You've been scolding people in this thread about reading too much into statistical flukes and now your counterargument is the score 3 minutes into the game? In the words of that NFL segment, "C'mon, man."

uh_no
11-25-2017, 04:31 PM
I just don’t get why 18 year old kids don’t play perfect basketball... makes no sense. They should never lose or get down on the scoreboard, never get beat off the dribble, never miss a blockout, never fail to rotate on helpside D, always hit their threes and FTs - but that certainly wouldn’t be enough for more than a handful on this board.

I mean, if we want to be hyperbolic, you're right. I bet at practice today K told the team "job well done." We should hand out awards to players just for showing up to play.

Don't be absurd.

There are always things to work on...even if you are winning and playing very well.

But I suppose in today's black and white society, you either heap praise on a team/player, or you hate them (as someone accused this board of doing of duval)

I love that these guys bust their butt for duke. I think there are reasonable criticisms of the way they're playing. If you can't handle that, perhaps you should block me and not have to worry about it moving forward. Living in a bubble where everything is roses.

Duke76
11-25-2017, 05:16 PM
A serious bunch of Negative Nellies on this board. We played a darn tough team, that was well-coached with size and talent who knocked us on our butts for most of the game. Then, we put on our big boy pants, fought back, made a few buckets, had some big stops, and got in their heads.

That's the advantage of having K and those four letters across the chest - most of our opponents are waiting for us to make those runs and those plays, and it shakes their confidence.

Texas absolutely should have won last night, but when the lead went from sixteen to six, the were shaken and got away from what worked. Our confidence grew each time down the court, theirs shrank. Once we got to OT, it should have been very tight - each team missing their motor guy - but we won going away.

along these lines what I saw was "determination" especially on Mr. Bagley's face...either you shrink in the face of adversity or you do "gut" it out. He wasn't going to let us lose and you could see it in his face.

uh_no
11-25-2017, 06:32 PM
along these lines what I saw was "determination" especially on Mr. Bagley's face...either you shrink in the face of adversity or you do "gut" it out. He wasn't going to let us lose and you could see it in his face.

He really upped his free throw defense down the stretch. Getting Coleman to miss at the end was critical.

uh_no
11-25-2017, 06:43 PM
He really upped his free throw defense down the stretch. Getting Coleman to miss at the end was critical.

To expand, as this is a bit terse for my tastes,

If coleman hits that FT, we're having a very different conversation here "oh we got down and it bit us in the butt" "wow this team has a lot of growing up to do" yadda yadda yadda. We'd hear about how this team has no "heart" and you could see the lack of effort in the teams' faces.

But he didn't hit it, and now Bagley is the basketball reincarnation of Eugene Krantz? Gimme a break.

Bagley played superbly down the stretch. The whole team did. That's not what bothers me. What bothers me is that they should be playing that way THE WHOLE GAME. and if they did, we wouldn't have to depend on Matt Coleman to miss a free throw in order for us to scrape out a win in OT.

Close wins mean one thing: you didn't play well enough to win by more. The team played like crap for 30+ minutes, and started playing as they're capable for the rest. Whether personnel or not, they were not good. Kedsy and I both put up the numbers...it was something like 123-88 efficiency.

Bottom line, this team is way too friggin' talented to be playing 30 minutes of crap ball. If they're so gutty and determined, give me 40 minutes of gutty and determined. Because it turns out gutty and determined for 10 minutes at the end STILL depended on the other team screwing up.

Putting yourself in a position where the other team needs to screw up is not a place you want to be in march.

Also speaking of how determined Bagley apparently was, lets remember that our last possession in Regulation resulted in him missing a 3. Hardly the shot we would want in that situation, and one which may have cost us the game had Coleman made his FT.

Edit: to expand some more because i'm sure someone will call me entitled:

These players don't owe me anything. No athlete owes me anything...I never did anything for them (except steve from Rec bball in middle school...he still owes me like 5 bucks). They owe it to themselves, and they owe it to Coach to play as they are capable.

Billy Dat
11-25-2017, 07:24 PM
This tournament set up weird for us. A long flight, time change, then a early tip on Thanksgiving. Tough game, followed by another afternoon tip. Then two full days off before a night tip? Is that huge break just to avoid college and pro football? Bad schedule, poorly planned tourny. Throw our yourh in and inconsistency is not a surprise.

All I take away is that in a day when our help defense was non existent and we couldn’t shoot, and our rebounding advantage was nullified, we reduced the game to the basics of us having better talent and going to Bagley again and again amd that made the difference. Obviously, fouling out their two bigs made a huge difference.

Kedsy’s theory about fouling being the formula to beat Duke is interesting. If they foul out too many bigs, Bagley and Carter will make them pay.

I am tempted to think Texas is for real, let’s see how they play Gonzaga. So often we’ve been fooled by teams that beat Duke or play us tougher than expected.

The PK80 has been a good test, I hope a few days off helps us reboot.

Reddevil
11-25-2017, 07:27 PM
As frustrating as it is to watch them try to defend, remember this, Battier was argueably the best defender to come through the program in the K era, and the light did not come on for him until his second year.

These freshmen have never been challenged like this in their lives. This is a BIG jump. They WILL improve. They are getting schooled in front of millions. They will see the tape and get the details down little by little. All that said, they are soooo offensively good, and that IS fun to watch. That will get better too.

Enjoy the ride. Does anyone here remember what it felt like to be 18? Imagine being in a fishbowl with older fish. The kids will be alright. I said about Portland State and Texas that you would not want to see them in March. There is a royal blue team that no one will want to see in March also.:cool:

MChambers
11-25-2017, 07:53 PM
To expand, as this is a bit terse for my tastes,

If coleman hits that FT, we're having a very different conversation here "oh we got down and it bit us in the butt" "wow this team has a lot of growing up to do" yadda yadda yadda. We'd hear about how this team has no "heart" and you could see the lack of effort in the teams' faces.

But he didn't hit it, and now Bagley is the basketball reincarnation of Eugene Krantz? Gimme a break.

Bagley played superbly down the stretch. The whole team did. That's not what bothers me. What bothers me is that they should be playing that way THE WHOLE GAME. and if they did, we wouldn't have to depend on Matt Coleman to miss a free throw in order for us to scrape out a win in OT.

Close wins mean one thing: you didn't play well enough to win by more. The team played like crap for 30+ minutes, and started playing as they're capable for the rest. Whether personnel or not, they were not good. Kedsy and I both put up the numbers...it was something like 123-88 efficiency.

Bottom line, this team is way too friggin' talented to be playing 30 minutes of crap ball. If they're so gutty and determined, give me 40 minutes of gutty and determined. Because it turns out gutty and determined for 10 minutes at the end STILL depended on the other team screwing up.

Putting yourself in a position where the other team needs to screw up is not a place you want to be in march.

Also speaking of how determined Bagley apparently was, lets remember that our last possession in Regulation resulted in him missing a 3. Hardly the shot we would want in that situation, and one which may have cost us the game had Coleman made his FT.

Edit: to expand some more because i'm sure someone will call me entitled:

These players don't owe me anything. No athlete owes me anything...I never did anything for them (except steve from Rec bball in middle school...he still owes me like 5 bucks). They owe it to themselves, and they owe it to Coach to play as they are capable.

You’re certainly correct that Coleman’s free throw miss allowed us all (except you, apparently) to feel good about the comeback.

Where I differ with you is the reason why the team didn’t play better. This is a very young team, incredibly young, in fact, that has a lot to learn. And they’ve barely had time to practice in the last two weeks. Also, it’s not like this team doesn’t have some holes (such as a dearth of long range shooters).

I’m sure they’ll improve over the course of the season. Will it be enough to win the ACC or make the Final Four? I have no idea, but I plan to enjoy the ride and hope for the best.

Saratoga2
11-25-2017, 07:57 PM
I thought the Alex/Javin minutes distribution last night was very intriguing. I’m a huge fan of Alex, and think he is an offensive savant - always in the right place and scores super efficiently. However is defense is really raw right now. He sees to have the Marty Pocious bouncing syndrome, and was blown by repeatedly for dunks. I believe the coaches will get him there because of his athleticism and high b-ball IQ but he has a ways to go. Javin is the opposite - he’s a defensive wrecking ball but is very limited on O. Historically we’ve seen K heavily favor defense over offense, but the last few days have been an interesting departure. Maybe the zone changes his calculus? Maybe Javin is really nursing an injury? I’m intereted to see how this plays out over the season.

Also, with the mtm defense, in past games Duke has switched all screens, but last night they were hedging for the most part (my guess is they wanted to avoid size mismatches). However the one possession late in the game where Duke got a key stop they went back to switching everything. I would imagine vs Florida we will see switching to prevent shooters from getting looks but interested to see how this evolves

The game was played at an energetic pace last night and when Grayson had to leave the game we needed a guard to go in so it favored Alex. Another night we may see our bigs tire and Javin go in. Wendell did seem to tire a bit and also had fouls building up. The difference is that we have two solid replacements for the back line but are pretty thin at guard. We still have 3 guards starting ahead of Alex, but he makes a good replacement for either Gary or Grayson and we have seen that Grayson can replace Trevon and give him rest. I think Alex will get a lot of PT this year and will continue to be a positive addition to the team.

gep
11-25-2017, 10:00 PM
You’re certainly correct that Coleman’s free throw miss allowed us all (except you, apparently) to feel good about the comeback.

Where I differ with you is the reason why the team didn’t play better. This is a very young team, incredibly young, in fact, that has a lot to learn. And they’ve barely had time to practice in the last two weeks. Also, it’s not like this team doesn’t have some holes (such as a dearth of long range shooters).

I’m sure they’ll improve over the course of the season. Will it be enough to win the ACC or make the Final Four? I have no idea, but I plan to enjoy the ride and hope for the best.

About this time last year, these 5 freshmen would have been on an AAU team or USA Basketball team... none of whom would have played together on a team yet. I'd like to think the the difference here is Coach K...:cool:

AtlDuke72
11-25-2017, 10:18 PM
To expand, as this is a bit terse for my tastes,

If coleman hits that FT, we're having a very different conversation here "oh we got down and it bit us in the butt" "wow this team has a lot of growing up to do" yadda yadda yadda. We'd hear about how this team has no "heart" and you could see the lack of effort in the teams' faces.

But he didn't hit it, and now Bagley is the basketball reincarnation of Eugene Krantz? Gimme a break.

Bagley played superbly down the stretch. The whole team did. That's not what bothers me. What bothers me is that they should be playing that way THE WHOLE GAME. and if they did, we wouldn't have to depend on Matt Coleman to miss a free throw in order for us to scrape out a win in OT.

Close wins mean one thing: you didn't play well enough to win by more. The team played like crap for 30+ minutes, and started playing as they're capable for the rest. Whether personnel or not, they were not good. Kedsy and I both put up the numbers...it was something like 123-88 efficiency.

Bottom line, this team is way too friggin' talented to be playing 30 minutes of crap ball. If they're so gutty and determined, give me 40 minutes of gutty and determined. Because it turns out gutty and determined for 10 minutes at the end STILL depended on the other team screwing up.

Putting yourself in a position where the other team needs to screw up is not a place you want to be in march.

Also speaking of how determined Bagley apparently was, lets remember that our last possession in Regulation resulted in him missing a 3. Hardly the shot we would want in that situation, and one which may have cost us the game had Coleman made his FT.

Edit: to expand some more because i'm sure someone will call me entitled:

These players don't owe me anything. No athlete owes me anything...I never did anything for them (except steve from Rec bball in middle school...he still owes me like 5 bucks). They owe it to themselves, and they owe it to Coach to play as they are capable.

I hope that Coach K can get you to talk to the team to let them know that they should play superbly for THE WHOLE GAME. This crap ball is just not cutting it. Especially that Bagley kid Somebody needs to tell him to play harder.

uh_no
11-25-2017, 10:35 PM
I hope that Coach K can get you to talk to the team to let them know that they should play superbly for THE WHOLE GAME. This crap ball is just not cutting it. Especially that Bagley kid Somebody needs to tell him to play harder.

I'm sure K is quite capable of delivering that message himself.

DU82
11-25-2017, 10:36 PM
As frustrating as it is to watch them try to defend, remember this, Battier was argueably the best defender to come through the program in the K era, and the light did not come on for him until his second year.

I don't agree with this. I saw Battier doing things as a freshman that I only saw Grant Hill being allowed to do as a senior. He was special from the start. Led the team in blocks and second to the national defensive player of the year in steals.

elvis14
11-26-2017, 12:44 AM
What a wild ride that game was last night. Glad we pulled it out in the end. Our guys showed a lot of guts :-)

jv001
11-26-2017, 06:44 AM
To expand, as this is a bit terse for my tastes,

If coleman hits that FT, we're having a very different conversation here "oh we got down and it bit us in the butt" "wow this team has a lot of growing up to do" yadda yadda yadda. We'd hear about how this team has no "heart" and you could see the lack of effort in the teams' faces.

But he didn't hit it, and now Bagley is the basketball reincarnation of Eugene Krantz? Gimme a break.

Bagley played superbly down the stretch. The whole team did. That's not what bothers me. What bothers me is that they should be playing that way THE WHOLE GAME. and if they did, we wouldn't have to depend on Matt Coleman to miss a free throw in order for us to scrape out a win in OT.

Close wins mean one thing: you didn't play well enough to win by more. The team played like crap for 30+ minutes, and started playing as they're capable for the rest. Whether personnel or not, they were not good. Kedsy and I both put up the numbers...it was something like 123-88 efficiency.

Bottom line, this team is way too friggin' talented to be playing 30 minutes of crap ball. If they're so gutty and determined, give me 40 minutes of gutty and determined. Because it turns out gutty and determined for 10 minutes at the end STILL depended on the other team screwing up.

Putting yourself in a position where the other team needs to screw up is not a place you want to be in march.

Also speaking of how determined Bagley apparently was, lets remember that our last possession in Regulation resulted in him missing a 3. Hardly the shot we would want in that situation, and one which may have cost us the game had Coleman made his FT.

Edit: to expand some more because i'm sure someone will call me entitled:

These players don't owe me anything. No athlete owes me anything...I never did anything for them (except steve from Rec bball in middle school...he still owes me like 5 bucks). They owe it to themselves, and they owe it to Coach to play as they are capable.

I enjoy almost all of your posts, but I have to disagree with you on your take of the game. I agree that Duke didn't play good defense for most of the game. But I don't think the bad play had anything to do with being lazy. I think it's because of youth. These guys are just out of high school and to pick up on Duke's man to man is asking a lot from them this early.

I think I remember you sort of gave up on the Duke football team earlier in the season. While they did not play up to expectation, they are going
bowwwlllinnnnggggggg. GoDuke!

wavedukefan70s
11-26-2017, 07:26 AM
Just out of curiosity. does anyone think that some of these guys arent interested in playing D?it takes time to be good at mtm.maybe they just want to play just enough D to get by before the league.
it was just a thought.
i believe as talented and young as they are its just a learning curve.
its very hard to replace experience.

devilsince1977
11-26-2017, 02:26 PM
My daughter also played valuable minutes. When we needed help, she rubbed my bald head. Powerful mojo.

My sister (a grandmother 3 times) moved from the couch to the dining room table at halftime. We would not let her back in the den after the comeback started. I believe the win was a team effort.

ipatent
11-26-2017, 02:37 PM
Texas down about 15 to the Zags with six minutes left.

jgehtland
11-26-2017, 03:08 PM
Texas down about 15 to the Zags with six minutes left.

Now tied at 69 in OT. Guess Texas learned something about comebacks. ;)

Rich
11-26-2017, 03:26 PM
Now tied at 69 in OT. Guess Texas learned something about comebacks. ;)

Everything but how to finish 'em

summerwind03
11-26-2017, 03:52 PM
I watched the second half and OT again this morning. What a great comeback! I am glad we won because now I can just respect Otestowski and Roach instead of hating them!

Lennies
11-28-2017, 01:44 AM
5) Was good to see Trent get that clutch and-1 to knot it up.

It was a miracle that wasn't called an offensive foul.

Trent's and-1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AEqMNaV7lg&t=8s)

LasVegas
11-28-2017, 01:50 AM
It was a miracle that wasn't called an offensive foul.

Trent's and-1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AEqMNaV7lg&t=8s)

Troll or joke? Hmmmm

juise
11-28-2017, 02:27 AM
Troll or joke? Hmmmm

Just a little first-time-long-time from Austin. What possible motive could there be? ;)

Having said that, I didn't come across any obnoxious UT fans at the game Friday.
The same was not true (not even remotely) at the NJ game in 2006 when JJ lit up #2 UT for 41pts.

Furniture
11-28-2017, 06:33 AM
It was a miracle that wasn't called an offensive foul.

Trent's and-1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AEqMNaV7lg&t=8s)

I actually thought the same. It could have gone either way. On another note this video makes the case that if Javin is Tiger the tiger then Goldmire is an bouncing energizing bunny!

Lennies
11-28-2017, 03:34 PM
I actually thought the same. It could have gone either way. On another note this video makes the case that if Javin is Tiger the tiger then Goldmire is an bouncing energizing bunny!

LOL, I didn't even notice Goldmire!

P.S. I'm not a troll, I went to Duke undergrad and Texas for grad school. I expected a very close game, and that's what I got!

jimsumner
11-28-2017, 06:51 PM
Duke doesn't actually have anyone named Goldmire.

FWIW.

Furniture
11-28-2017, 09:06 PM
Duke doesn't actually have anyone named Goldmire.

FWIW.

Meh...

fidel
11-28-2017, 09:16 PM
Duke doesn't actually have anyone named Goldmire.

FWIW.

Goldminger?

jimsumner
11-28-2017, 09:33 PM
Sheldon Goldminger?

devildeac
11-28-2017, 10:28 PM
Goldminger?


Sheldon Goldminger?

Close enough:

7850