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JasonEvans
11-21-2017, 02:27 PM
Back surgery. Still getting more details. This is big news in the All-American and POY contest.

Billy Dat
11-21-2017, 02:27 PM
Michael Porter Jr. having surgery, done for the year. 2 minute college career. I feel bad for him, Cuonzo and Mizzou hoops fans. That's rough.

JasonEvans
11-21-2017, 02:30 PM
Here's a story (https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2017/11/21/16686692/michael-porter-jr-injury-missouri-basketball-nba-draft-2018) on it...


Statement from Mizzou:

Michael Porter, Jr. will undergo surgery on Tuesday, Nov. 21, in Dallas, Texas. The procedure, a microdiscectomy of the L3-L4 spinal discs, has a projected recovery time of three-four months and will likely cause him to miss the remainder of the season.

Dr. Rosenrosen
11-21-2017, 02:30 PM
Not to mention pretty terrible news for Michael Porter Jr. Hope he heals well. Good luck to the young man.

BandAlum83
11-21-2017, 02:32 PM
What really sad news for him. Gary Parrish spent some time on him during his last podcast. He played only 2 minutes in his first game and then didn't travel or sit on the bench. They could only surmise that either was too painful for him.

Wishing him successful surgery and a speedy recovery.

AGDukesky
11-21-2017, 02:37 PM
Awful news! Best of luck on a full recovery for that young man.

flyingdutchdevil
11-21-2017, 02:51 PM
Michael Porter Jr has a fabulous game. Reminds me of the typical Duke 4, expect with higher upside.

Would have loved to see him play.

Terrible for what is already a rough year for college hoops (thanks, adidas...I mean Pitino...I mean adidas...whatever...)

kAzE
11-21-2017, 02:55 PM
A stark reminder that injuries can take a season from promising to dust in an instant. Sucks for the kid and for college basketball in general. I'm sure we were all looking forward to seeing him in action this year. Best of luck on a full recovery, and pleasepleaseplease let us avoid the injury bug this year.

ipatent
11-21-2017, 02:56 PM
Too bad for the kid, hope he has a full recovery.

CDu
11-21-2017, 03:11 PM
Ooof. That sucks. Hope he heals fully. Back injuries can be no joke. For such a promising prospect, that's a scary turn of events.

BigZ
11-21-2017, 03:21 PM
So Bagley is clearly the number 1 prospect now

Billy Dat
11-21-2017, 03:28 PM
So Bagley is clearly the number 1 prospect now

Perhaps in D1 college hoops. Luka Doncic of Slovenian, an 18 year old who plays for Real Madrid and the Slovenian national team, has been the trendy pick for #1 after leading Slovenia (along with Goran Dragic) to the Eurobasket title this past summer. He's putting up crazy numbers in the Spanish league which is considered better than D1 hoop.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/luka-doncic-scouting-report-nba-draft-2018-stats-highlights-eurobasket/1lnjwcwiqwwqw1g2kgi4ty0xdy

Still, though, very tough news for Porter Jr. They hired his dad to get he and his brother to Mizzou.

DukieInKansas
11-21-2017, 03:35 PM
Wishing him a full recovery.

moonpie23
11-21-2017, 03:44 PM
man, that sucks.....not only for his current year, but, just to have to have the back surgery.......hope it makes his back better...

gam7
11-21-2017, 03:47 PM
Ooof. That sucks. Hope he heals fully. Back injuries can be no joke. For such a promising prospect, that's a scary turn of events.

Brutal. Hopefully, he'll be back to full strength soon and won't ever have to lumbar down the court.

Three pages of back puns in 3-2-1...

Leading a thread down a punny rabbit hole was on my bucket list. I promise I will never do it again. Maybe you guys could somehow wankerize puns?

JasonEvans
11-21-2017, 03:58 PM
So Bagley is clearly the number 1 prospect now

Well, in addition to the already mentioned Doncic, lots of folks are really high on D'Andre Ayton of Arizona. He's 7-1 and a freak athlete who is averaging 18 ppg and 12 rpg thus far (no real competition yet). He's not just a crazy run, jump 7-footer either as he is skilled facing the basket and can even hit 3-pointers. It is still too early to know whether he or Bagley will be considered the better NBA prospect. I think many folks have Ayton barely ahead at the moment.

Also, if Porter comes back and is impressive in workouts or at the very end of the season, he could still move into the conversation for #1 pick.

-Jason "the top 4 in this year's draft are all considered better prospects than anyone in last year's draft" Evans

OldPhiKap
11-21-2017, 03:59 PM
Wishing Good luck for a quick and full recovery.

JasonEvans
11-21-2017, 04:02 PM
Three pages of back puns in 3-2-1...

A small request... this is a serious issue for the kid and major news in the world of college hoops. Could we cool it on the puns for 24 hours or so? Thanks.

Doria
11-21-2017, 04:55 PM
Awful. Sorry to hear this, and wish him a full recovery.

JasonEvans
11-21-2017, 04:56 PM
It is worth noting that by only playing 2 minutes of basketball, Porter will certainly be eligible for a redshirt and can still play 4 years of college ball after this.

Too soon?

I saw this on twitter, titled, "Montage of Michael Porter's Mizzu career"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkJehlr1tEw

dukelifer
11-21-2017, 05:02 PM
Back surgery. Still getting more details. This is big news in the All-American and POY contest.

That kid is a talent. Hopefully not a chronic issues. Backs are tricky to treat.

MChambers
11-21-2017, 05:53 PM
I’m hoping for a full recovery. Really tough break for young Mr. Porter.

Troublemaker
11-21-2017, 05:59 PM
So Bagley is clearly the number 1 prospect now

I have it currently

1. Ayton
2. Doncic
3. Bamba
4. Porter Jr
5. Jaren Jackson
6. Bagley

I've felt for awhile now that ultimately NBA scouting departments won't like Marvin's lack of length, lack of shotblocking, and lack of shooting.

But those things aren't set in stone. Maybe by the end of the season he's hitting threes at a 35% clip on 3-4 attempts a game, in which case he'd move up.

gam7
11-21-2017, 06:59 PM
A small request... this is a serious issue for the kid and major news in the world of college hoops. Could we cool it on the puns for 24 hours or so? Thanks.

Absolutely - in all seriousness, I hope he gets back to full strength soon. He's really a special scorer. And he had one of the best in-game high school dunks (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzGYjQVq-og)I have ever seen during his sophomore year.


I have it currently

1. Ayton
2. Doncic
3. Bamba
4. Porter Jr
5. Jaren Jackson
6. Bagley

I've felt for awhile now that ultimately NBA scouting departments won't like Marvin's lack of length, lack of shotblocking, and lack of shooting.

But those things aren't set in stone. Maybe by the end of the season he's hitting threes at a 35% clip on 3-4 attempts a game, in which case he'd move up.

I would be surprised if Bagley is available at 6 - based on what I saw of him in high school, I don't think Bamba will go ahead of him (haven't seen Bamba play in college yet - we may get to see him up close and personal, head to head against Bagley, on Friday). I do really like Jaren Jackson and could see him in the conversation for a Top 5 pick - maybe Horford as a comp? At the end of the day, I think Bagley goes ahead of him too.

rickshawboycall911
11-21-2017, 07:01 PM
Absolutely - in all seriousness, I hope he gets back to full strength soon. He's really a special scorer. And he had one of the best in-game high school dunks (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzGYjQVq-og)I have ever seen during his sophomore year.



I would be surprised if Bagley is available at 6 - based on what I saw of him in high school, I don't think Bamba will go ahead of him (haven't seen Bamba play in college yet - we may get to see him up close and personal, head to head against Bagley, on Friday). I do really like Jaren Jackson and could see him in the conversation for a Top 5 pick - maybe Horford as a comp? At the end of the day, I think Bagley goes ahead of him too.

Bagley goes #1. Anyone who takes Bamba ahead of him is a moron

dukelifer
11-21-2017, 07:13 PM
I have it currently

1. Ayton
2. Doncic
3. Bamba
4. Porter Jr
5. Jaren Jackson
6. Bagley

I've felt for awhile now that ultimately NBA scouting departments won't like Marvin's lack of length, lack of shotblocking, and lack of shooting.

But those things aren't set in stone. Maybe by the end of the season he's hitting threes at a 35% clip on 3-4 attempts a game, in which case he'd move up.
I wonder what Bagley would average without the limitations ;) My guess is that he will be a better pro than some listed- but time will tell. I thought Jah would be a starter and he is not even playing now.

MChambers
11-21-2017, 07:47 PM
I have it currently

1. Ayton
2. Doncic
3. Bamba
4. Porter Jr
5. Jaren Jackson
6. Bagley

I've felt for awhile now that ultimately NBA scouting departments won't like Marvin's lack of length, lack of shotblocking, and lack of shooting.

But those things aren't set in stone. Maybe by the end of the season he's hitting threes at a 35% clip on 3-4 attempts a game, in which case he'd move up.

I don’t follow this sort of thing much at all, but I’m having a very hard time imagining a draft with five players better than Bagley. I think he’s Duke’s best freshman since Irving, and Bagley may be better than Irving. And Duke has had several amazing freshman in that period. And Marvin’s “lack of length”? Really? Guess I’ll see if Duke plays Texas.

UrinalCake
11-21-2017, 08:09 PM
Terrible news for Porter, though he will likely still be a top-10 and possibly top-5 pick next year as long as he recovers and checks out physically. Also a really tough break from Missouri, I mean when Duke loses Giles due to injury we still have a really good team and will have another crop of lottery picks the next year. But for a school like Missouri, getting a player like Porter is something that may never happen again.

I also wonder how their fans feel about the fact that they hired his dad just to land him for one year, and now they’re basically getting nothing for it. (They also have a scholarship to his brother, who is an excellent player in his own right and who reclassified up a year in order to play one season with his brother).

UrinalCake
11-21-2017, 08:11 PM
Here’s another thought that came to mind (sorry if this is “too soon”....). Let’s say Porter goes on to be drafted in the 5-10 range after not playing. Would that lend support to the notion that Harry would have been better off not playing at all last year?

Troublemaker
11-21-2017, 08:17 PM
I wonder what Bagley would average without the limitations ;) My guess is that he will be a better pro than some listed- but time will tell. I thought Jah would be a starter and he is not even playing now.

None of those limitations affect his scoring, and it'll be his scoring, rebounding, and athleticism that have him solidly in the top 10.

I'm not insulting the guy. Seriously. Thinking him worthy of going #6 overall is a great compliment.


I don’t follow this sort of thing much at all, but I’m having a very hard time imagining a draft with five players better than Bagley. I think he’s Duke’s best freshman since Irving, and Bagley may be better than Irving. And Duke has had several amazing freshman in that period. And Marvin’s “lack of length”? Really?

Yes. They measure arm length these days, and Marvin's is short for his height.


Guess I’ll see if Duke plays Texas.

To be clear, I expect Marvin to continue to be an extremely productive college player thanks to his motor. He will probably outplay Bamba head to head.

This is about his long-term potential in the NBA.

Troublemaker
11-21-2017, 08:22 PM
Here’s another thought that came to mind (sorry if this is “too soon”...). Let’s say Porter goes on to be drafted in the 5-10 range after not playing. Would that lend support to the notion that Harry would have been better off not playing at all last year?

The situations aren't equivalent.

Harry tore one knee, then tore the other knee, then had to get another scope on the first torn knee because things didn't go well there. Even now Harry isn't playing in the NBA and is still rehabbing. If Porter recovers fully and starts playing after the initial rehab following surgery, then he's much healthier than Harry.

Henderson
11-21-2017, 09:22 PM
I feel bad for the guy. Tough turn for him, and I hope he heals quickly and completely. He's undoubtedly put in years of hard work for this, and I'd like to see him get paid handsomely.

Any word on his post-surgery plans? Will he continue at Mizzou while he rehabs? If not, will his dad stay on?

rsvman
11-21-2017, 10:23 PM
This is terrible news for him, his family, the Missouri team, the MIssouri fans, and college basketball fans in general. I hope he recovers quickly and has a productive professional career.

As for Bagley, he needs to develop his moves to the right and learn to finish well with the right hand. That's about the only thing he needs to work on.

dukelifer
11-21-2017, 10:39 PM
None of those limitations affect his scoring, and it'll be his scoring, rebounding, and athleticism that have him solidly in the top 10.

I'm not insulting the guy. Seriously. Thinking him worthy of going #6 overall is a great compliment.



Yes. They measure arm length these days, and Marvin's is short for his height.



To be clear, I expect Marvin to continue to be an extremely productive college player thanks to his motor. He will probably outplay Bamba head to head.

This is about his long-term potential in the NBA.

A lot depends on who is drafting. But despite not being freakishly long armed- the kid is amazingly coordinated for his size and commands your attention when you watch him play.

weezie
11-21-2017, 10:43 PM
He made a sweeping rebound over the top of the heads of two Furman players in the second half that more than made up for any measured arm length. Had to get up there pretty high to do that without fouling. And, he's still got some growing to do, at his age.

budwom
11-22-2017, 08:24 AM
he seems like a very young guy to have that sort of surgery. Not good at all.

flyingdutchdevil
11-22-2017, 09:31 AM
I don’t follow this sort of thing much at all, but I’m having a very hard time imagining a draft with five players better than Bagley. I think he’s Duke’s best freshman since Irving, and Bagley may be better than Irving. And Duke has had several amazing freshman in that period. And Marvin’s “lack of length”? Really? Guess I’ll see if Duke plays Texas.

You think Bagley's bag of tricks will work in the NBA? That's what I'm concerned about moreso than measurements (and I'm not concerned about Bagley's measurements). Bagley relies on speed and second opportunities. His speed would be impressive but not otherworldly in the NBA. And those second opportunities? Gone.

Bagley - assuming he plays the 4 in the NBA - needs to shoot better. And unlike a lot on this forum, I believe shooting is a difficult skill to learn. Look at Winslow and (to a lesser degree) Ingram - both are really struggling to shoot from deep in the NBA.

I think Bagley is a top 3 talent, but, right now, I see challenges in him getting drafted in the top 3. Porter and Ayton (Ayton shoots a respectable 77% from the line this year despite having an awful 3pt shooting percentage) are much better shooters and Doncic is such a rare PG talent. He's like Lonzo, only he can shoot and doesn't have an annoying father.

MChambers
11-22-2017, 10:24 AM
You think Bagley's bag of tricks will work in the NBA? That's what I'm concerned about moreso than measurements (and I'm not concerned about Bagley's measurements). Bagley relies on speed and second opportunities. His speed would be impressive but not otherworldly in the NBA. And those second opportunities? Gone.

Bagley - assuming he plays the 4 in the NBA - needs to shoot better. And unlike a lot on this forum, I believe shooting is a difficult skill to learn. Look at Winslow and (to a lesser degree) Ingram - both are really struggling to shoot from deep in the NBA.

I think Bagley is a top 3 talent, but, right now, I see challenges in him getting drafted in the top 3. Porter and Ayton (Ayton shoots a respectable 77% from the line this year despite having an awful 3pt shooting percentage) are much better shooters and Doncic is such a rare PG talent. He's like Lonzo, only he can shoot and doesn't have an annoying father.

I really shouldn't comment on what will work in the NBA, since whenever I turn it on I get bored after 5 minutes and go do something else.

But Bagley seems very "long" to me, measurements be damned, and I think he'll be able to get his shot off inside in the NBA, with his quickness. As for shooting, he's got a nice stroke, and I think he'll improve dramatically. On defense, he gets after it and works hard. Doesn't get lost very often.

kexman
11-22-2017, 10:27 AM
I feel bad for the guy. Tough turn for him, and I hope he heals quickly and completely. He's undoubtedly put in years of hard work for this, and I'd like to see him get paid handsomely.

Any word on his post-surgery plans? Will he continue at Mizzou while he rehabs? If not, will his dad stay on?


I normally would give grief about hiring a prospects father. However, in this case I might give it a pass at least for mizzou. The sister-in-law is the coach of the women's team. The father was on the women's basketball staff from 2010-2016. 2 sisters are currently on the women's team. He took the job at Washington in May of 2016. Now taking the job in washington might bring up some questions...however, I think he might have played with the Washington coach in college. Anyway, it looks questionable, but there were a lot of ties to Mizzou coaching. Of course having 2 talented sons I'm sure did not hurt the resume:)

budwom
11-22-2017, 10:30 AM
Marvin's wingspan is NOT short for his height, it's average (7 ft, measured several times...)...and with not especially wide shoulders, there's no way his arms can be deemed short for his height.

One has to be looking for things to criticize to cite his arm length as an issue.

Troublemaker
11-22-2017, 10:55 AM
Let's move this thread hijack (which was in large part my fault) to the NBA Draft Thread (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?40644-Pre-Season-NBA-Draft-Board)