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View Full Version : MBB: Duke 92, Furman 63 Post-Game Thread



JBDuke
11-20-2017, 09:13 PM
Put your post-game thoughts here.

DukieInBrasil
11-20-2017, 09:16 PM
sure was a dunktastic game!
Bagley, Carter, Delaurier, Allen all had dunks, anyone else?
Glad to see Marques have a solid showing. Alex looked amazing. Only Allen had a disappointing game. Trent faded from a great 1st half to a horrid 2nd half.
Javin may be my favorite on this team, he's just got so much bounce, like Tigger.

proelitedota
11-20-2017, 09:19 PM
Javin is Bagley without the touch around the basket.

ipatent
11-20-2017, 09:20 PM
Liked the way Grayson let the game come to him and let his teammates take care of business, 6 assists. Great game by Duval, and AOC made the most of his time on the floor.

fuse
11-20-2017, 09:20 PM
Obligatory “is Grayson ok, or just letting the game come him, letting the freshmen play,etc” query.

The team needs to figure out to get out of the gates with a little more focus.

Bolden played really well, as did Duval.
DeLaurier is fun to watch, and O’Connell is a fearless gamer.

This is a fun team- I haven’t even mentioned (yet) how amazing Bagley and Carter are.

Neals384
11-20-2017, 09:20 PM
sure was a dunktastic game!
Bagley, Carter, Delaurier, Allen all had dunks, anyone else?
Glad to see Marques have a solid showing. Alex looked amazing. Only Allen had a disappointing game. Trent faded from a great 1st half to a horrid 2nd half.
Javin may be my favorite on this team, he's just got so much bounce, like Tigger.

Duval had a dunk

rsvman
11-20-2017, 09:21 PM
Pretty solid showing tonight. The big guys were unstoppable. Hurts if your Furman and your tallest guy is 6'8". Man defense getting a bit sharper. Switching on every screen leads to a lot of mismatches, though; bigger, more experienced teams will take advantage. Also, the extremely hard hedge led to a wide open big for the layup or dunk at least twice. Hard hedge won't work without either a very quick recovery or some help on the weak side.

Overall, though, I thought our man D looked a lot better. More communication. Pretty good rim protection. The zone looked OK, too.


I hope Grayson gets his shot back before Thanksgiving.

Saratoga2
11-20-2017, 09:24 PM
Oconnell is showing a great deal of promise. He can shoot and score and currently offers another 3 point threat shoul Grayson and Gary continue with the cold shooting touch. Alex clearly needs to add strength but he does have some of Scheyer's characteristics, which is giving him high prasie at this early part of the season.

Neals384
11-20-2017, 09:30 PM
Can anyone comment on M2M defense vs. zone? My Watch ESPN wass spotty, but it looked like all M2M in the first half and at leasst some zone in the 2nd. Which was more effective?

MrPoon
11-20-2017, 09:32 PM
What we thought the Southern game was going to be.
Better fluidity to the game.

Duval is like the quiet storm. He gets points, steals, assists then at the end of the night the stat sheet is spectacular. Is there a better PG in the ACC? Some would argue a guy up the road but I’m not sure.

AGDukesky
11-20-2017, 09:34 PM
With our questionable 3-point shooting, I don’t see how O’Connell stays out of the rotation. Bolden looked more comfortable. Solid performance including Bagley at the FT line...

Ultrarunner
11-20-2017, 09:35 PM
It's pretty clear we're working on the MTM defense. It's getting better but those first couple of minutes were rough. The entry of the sophomores made a big difference in stabilizing the younger kids. Interesting to me was the way we closed out threes in the MTM versus zone. Much better on the MTM on closeouts.

Offensively, I continue to be impressed with the skill of Carter and the athleticism of Bagley. Duval, if he keeps progressing, is going to be really something in a couple of months. If he can hit that little pull-up jumper, he's going to drive folks crazy. Hit tip to O'Connell for being a fun surprise. Trent has had some down games on the scoring side but brings good effort on the defensive.

Bolden had a really nice game and Javin is a 6'10" energizer bunny who keeps making things happen.

Not worried about Grayson. He can wear the superhero cape when we need him to, i.e. MSU.

Looking forward to watching them in person later in the week.

Duke95
11-20-2017, 09:37 PM
I believe that through the first 5 games, all five of our freshmen have scored in double figures in at least one game.

MrPoon
11-20-2017, 09:37 PM
The zone late in the game is harder to judge because it wasn’t always the starters. I didn’t think it was too effective. Fewer turnovers and opened up to better threes. Not sure if the data will support my quick opinion but Furman was looking to shoot threes and the zone helped them find their shot. Also looked like they had practiced for the zone because they passed well around it.

DukieInBrasil
11-20-2017, 09:38 PM
What we thought the Southern game was going to be.
Better fluidity to the game.

Duval is like the quiet storm. He gets points, steals, assists then at the end of the night the stat sheet is spectacular. Is there a better PG in the ACC? Some would argue a guy up the road but I’m not sure.

i look forward to Duval destroying Berry. Joel may end up with decent numbers but when he's matched up with Duval, Trevon is gonna own him.

DukieInBrasil
11-20-2017, 09:40 PM
I believe that through the first 5 games, all five of our freshmen have scored in double figures in at least one game.

we have more than 5 Fr.
J-Gold and J-Tuck haven't scored more than 10, Buckmire hasn't gotten into a game yet.

Troublemaker
11-20-2017, 09:40 PM
Can anyone comment on M2M defense vs. zone? My Watch ESPN wass spotty, but it looked like all M2M in the first half and at leasst some zone in the 2nd. Which was more effective?

The zone was only used during garbage-time and was awful, giving up wide-open threes and a layup. It was garbage-time, though, so I would throw out the data.

We were clearly focused on stopping their 3-pt shooting, which made MTM and lots of switching the appropriate defense in this game. And after the first 6-8 minutes of the game, we locked down well in MTM.

AGDukesky
11-20-2017, 09:41 PM
I believe that through the first 5 games, all five of our freshmen have scored in double figures in at least one game.

Well, we have more than five freshmen but it is true that that many freshmen have scored in double figures. Goldwire and Tucker have not.

Furniture
11-20-2017, 09:42 PM
sure was a dunktastic game!
Bagley, Carter, Delaurier, Allen all had dunks, anyone else?
Glad to see Marques have a solid showing. Alex looked amazing. Only Allen had a disappointing game. Trent faded from a great 1st half to a horrid 2nd half.
Javin may be my favorite on this team, he's just got so much bounce, like Tigger.

Dunno Alex is fairly bouncy and the wonderful thing about Alex is that he gets buckets.

Troublemaker
11-20-2017, 09:44 PM
Javin is Bagley without the touch around the basket.

That's probably underselling Javin's defense. He has much better timing on blocked shots and is the more switchable defender onto small guys, imo. But Marvin is the much better offensive player, of course.

weezie
11-20-2017, 09:50 PM
It's pretty clear we're working on the MTM defense. It's getting better but those first couple of minutes were rough. The entry of the sophomores made a big difference in stabilizing the younger kids. Interesting to me was the way we closed out threes in the MTM versus zone. Much better on the MTM on closeouts.

Offensively, I continue to be impressed with the skill of Carter and the athleticism of Bagley. Duval, if he keeps progressing, is going to be really something in a couple of months. If he can hit that little pull-up jumper, he's going to drive folks crazy. Hit tip to O'Connell for being a fun surprise. Trent has had some down games on the scoring side but brings good effort on the defensive.

Bolden had a really nice game and Javin is a 6'10" energizer bunny who keeps making things happen.

Not worried about Grayson. He can wear the superhero cape when we need him to, i.e. MSU.

Looking forward to watching them in person later in the week.

Solid post. Nutshell.

Troublemaker
11-20-2017, 09:54 PM
Pretty solid showing tonight. The big guys were unstoppable. Hurts if your Furman and your tallest guy is 6'8". Man defense getting a bit sharper. Switching on every screen leads to a lot of mismatches, though; bigger, more experienced teams will take advantage.

We'll play the ball screens differently if the opposing bigs can't shoot. But in any case, this is probably our most switchable team in awhile because of the quickness of our bigs and the size/length of our guards.

billy
11-20-2017, 09:58 PM
Obligatory “is Grayson ok, or just letting the game come him, letting the freshmen play

In the postgame interview on BDN, K said he didn’t practice the last couple of days because he was bumped and bruised.

K also said he wanted to test out the zone late in the game to see what would happen when they zoned a good 3-point shooting team.

I almost forgot; the most interesting thing he said was that Duke is Nike’s “lead” school (when talking about the Phil Knight tournament); he didn’t go into that in any further detail, I just thought it was interesting

rickshawboycall911
11-20-2017, 09:58 PM
AOC is the going to be a really,really good player

BLPOG
11-20-2017, 10:00 PM
Link (http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&catid=0&id=550434)

If it doesn't go directly to the video, click "press conferences" and then select Men's Basketball or Newest from the drop down menus to bring up Coach K's and the Furman coach's comments.

rickshawboycall911
11-20-2017, 10:01 PM
i look forward to Duval destroying Berry. Joel may end up with decent numbers but when he's matched up with Duval, Trevon is gonna own him.

I am with you but I guarantee you Duval will pick up a couple of cheap fouls early against Berry...

Billy Dat
11-20-2017, 10:24 PM
K is definitelty using these early lower profile games to see what he has and get PT for nearly everyone of note. After the top 6, with Javin as the 6th man, he has varied his rotations with Bolden and Goldwire the next most likely but Jack White got some first half PT while Vrank, who was in the game early against Southern, got only mop up tome today.

For the headliners, Carter has been a rock. I find him to be a very comforting presence as he usually finishes or gets fouled, blocks shots and rebounds hard, and is a nice passer. Love him!

This team needs to make it a priority to get Marvin rolling as early in the game as possible. When he started to go off in the first half, and we smartly fed the hot hand, it was a thing of beauty.

Trevon is playing really well, and I like when he stays aggreasive with his drive. I even like that he is taking the shots he’s supposed to take to keep the D honest, even if he keeps missing from 15 out.

As others have said, the M2M D was spotty. I felt like we gave up a lot of second chances by not defensive rebounding, but we continue to crash the O-boards with abandon.

Maybe K sticking with a deeper rotation to also prep for consecutive games at the PK80?

Great minutes from Javin, Alex and Marquese. Trent didn’t stand out, but we didn’t need him.

Let’s hope we get to play a few tough teams in Portland to see where we stand. Our M2M D needs work and our O needs a little more ball movement. Offensive rebounding and shot blocking are important strengths. We also scored an enormous number of points in the paint - a fun and different Duke team.

K was Grayson was banged up these last few days...OK...he has looked really pedestrain since MSU when he looked like the POY.

UrinalCake
11-20-2017, 10:32 PM
Definitely lots of signs of improvement from the last game. 61% from the line and 5-17 from three aren't great, but compared to the Southern game I'll take it. We started off slow but eventually got into a rhythm especially once our transition game picked up. Defensively in the M2M we still let guards blow by us with regularity. We do have bigs who can help clean that up at the rim, but it's something to work on.

Hard to complain about a 29-point win, but I do still see plenty of room for improvement. Solid effort leading us into our trip to Portland.

ChillinDuke
11-20-2017, 10:50 PM
Trevon Duval is a gem. Seemed clear to me that K told him to go out there and take the game by the reins. He was in a different gear with his ball handling and attacking the basket without being out of control or forcing.

Just wait til he has 20 games under his belt. This kid is only starting to realize what he can and can't do. He is going to be fantastic for us.

I even noticed K say something to him as he exited the game for the final time. Tre broke out in a big smile. I wonder if K said something like, "now, how did that feel?"

I really love Tre.

- Chillin

devildeac
11-20-2017, 10:55 PM
I am with you but I guarantee you Duval will pick up a couple of cheap fouls early against Berry...

Already has-swofford has called them in. My radio feed is quite a bit ahead of the tv and the Duke radio crew is quite po'ed about the one he picked up getting off the bus and the other one in the lay-up line. :rolleyes:

uh_no
11-20-2017, 11:03 PM
the start was a bit sluggish, but can't complain much about anything overall.

obviously playing some different lineups.

they clearly game planned their D against grayson. they didn't leave him open for a kingdom...and he was working his butt off too. I think we'll see his production increase in games where it's not as easy as shooting a barrel of monkeys for our bigs to score.

coach said he's banged up. I believe it given he only played 24.

I also expect he's trying to rest his guys for the gauntlet coming up. with 4 games tough tough games next week.

either way, I wouldn't be surprised to see grayson as tournament MVP on saturday.

kAzE
11-20-2017, 11:22 PM
Great win, and really solid effort from the whole team. The man defense is a work in progress for sure, and still getting it done while struggling a bit from 3 point range.

Bagley really stood out yet again. Usually guys that talented don't go as hard as he does on every possession, but his motor is strong. He's in incredible shape. He's been playing a TON of minutes for a big man and doesn't ever seem to get tired. He's probably going to shatter every freshman Duke big man record out there if he stays healthy the rest of the year. Carter was a beast again. I still don't think there's a team out there who can stop them both.

I liked what I saw from Bolden tonight. He was really trying hard out there and moved his feet surprisingly well on defense.

O'Connell has been a really welcome surprise for me. He always seems to be just a bit out of control but ends up making a great play. He makes surprisingly few mistakes for the way he plays, which I think will regress back to the mean at some point, but he's been really good. He can also hit 3s, which is something we desperately need more of.

moonpie23
11-20-2017, 11:37 PM
I went to the game tonight....it was great being in CIS again....always an adventure...


band played an ac/dc song in tribute to malcom's passing...

our D was really spotty.....furman kept missing tons of shots, and even when they beat the inside guys, they pitched it back outside for some poor ball movement and bad 3 pt shooting....


bolden has trouble with his foot work.......bagley, well, he's legit...

Furniture
11-20-2017, 11:45 PM
I went to the game tonight...it was great being in CIS again...always an adventure...
band played an ac/dc song in tribute to malcom's passing...
our D was really spotty...furman kept missing tons of shots, and even when they beat the inside guys, they pitched it back outside for some poor ball movement and bad 3 pt shooting...
bolden has trouble with his foot work...bagley, well, he's legit...

The band sounded good tonight. Is it a bigger band this year?

Duke95
11-20-2017, 11:48 PM
Well, we have more than five freshmen but it is true that that many freshmen have scored in double figures. Goldwire and Tucker have not.

Yep. My bad.

uh_no
11-20-2017, 11:51 PM
The band sounded good tonight. Is it a bigger band this year?

same size, at least for pep. though slightly varying numbers will come out for each game.

maybe it sounds good because they're allowed to play more instead of blasting <insert whatever> over the sound system.

also, mini rant about the sound system. no reason for the pre-game videos to be "space shuttle at launch" loud. I've started bringing ear plugs for protection. it's dangerously loud.

BandAlum83
11-20-2017, 11:59 PM
same size, at least for pep. though slightly varying numbers will come out for each game.

maybe it sounds good because they're allowed to play more instead of blasting <insert whatever> over the sound system.

also, mini rant about the sound system. no reason for the pre-game videos to be "space shuttle at launch" loud. I've started bringing ear plugs for protection. it's dangerously loud.

It probably wouldn't sound so loud from your own lawn! ;)

Kedsy
11-21-2017, 12:44 AM
With our questionable 3-point shooting, I don’t see how O’Connell stays out of the rotation.

We were winning by 24 before Alex first stepped onto the floor. Unless something drastically changes (injury or whatever), he doesn't appear likely to make the rotation in competitive games. He still got my MOTM vote tonight, though.


We were clearly focused on stopping their 3-pt shooting...

45+% of Furman's shots were three-pointers. If our focus was to keep them from shooting threes, we didn't succeed very well.


This team needs to make it a priority to get Marvin rolling as early in the game as possible.

I agree. I hardly noticed he was on the floor for the first 10 or 12 minutes of the game (the first 11.5 minutes of the game he was 0 for 3 with 0 points, 1 rebound, and 1 assist). He made an emphatic block with 8:32 to go in the first half and that seemed to get him going.


I felt like we gave up a lot of second chances by not defensive rebounding, but we continue to crash the O-boards with abandon.

We grabbed 66.7% of available defensive rebounds tonight, which is slightly worse than the 72.0% we grabbed in our first four games but still pretty good. Our overall DR% is now a strong 69.8%.

We snagged 50% of available offensive rebounds tonight, bringing our season total up to a very strong 45.8% (if we can continue at that rate it will be a Duke all-time record).

We also shot 72.3% on our two-point shots tonight, which is amazing (our previous season-best was 59.2% against Elon).

InSpades
11-21-2017, 01:02 AM
Ya know sometimes you think that we're so much bigger than the other team we should just dominate them inside... well... this is what people want to see when they think that.

Our bigs were:
20 out of 28 (19 of 25 from 2). 25 boards, 7 blocks.

Javin is a treat to watch out there. It seems like each game he gets a block where he just destroys the will of the person attempting the shot.

Trevon is a very special player. He gets to the rim way faster than you think someone should be able to get to the rim. It will be nice to be on the other end of not being able to guard perimeter penetration. He's going to demand a lot of attention when he has the ball in his hands.

Carter was just ridiculously efficient. 6 of 7 w/ 5 offensive boards?

The Bagley spin move dunk was a sight to be seen. His defender just didn't know what was coming.

This year is going to be fun (well, it already is fun).

arnie
11-21-2017, 06:32 AM
Oconnell is showing a great deal of promise. He can shoot and score and currently offers another 3 point threat shoul Grayson and Gary continue with the cold shooting touch. Alex clearly needs to add strength but he does have some of Scheyer's characteristics, which is giving him high prasie at this early part of the season.

Too early to be sure, but think O’Connell stays in tight game rotations all year. Assuming Bolden remains healthy/productive Could K go with a 9 man rotation? We should no by end of week.

dukelifer
11-21-2017, 06:37 AM
We were winning by 24 before Alex first stepped onto the floor. Unless something drastically changes (injury or whatever), he doesn't appear likely to make the rotation in competitive games. He still got my MOTM vote tonight, though.



45+% of Furman's shots were three-pointers. If our focus was to keep them from shooting threes, we didn't succeed very well.



I agree. I hardly noticed he was on the floor for the first 10 or 12 minutes of the game (the first 11.5 minutes of the game he was 0 for 3 with 0 points, 1 rebound, and 1 assist). He made an emphatic block with 8:32 to go in the first half and that seemed to get him going.



We grabbed 66.7% of available defensive rebounds tonight, which is slightly worse than the 72.0% we grabbed in our first four games but still pretty good. Our overall DR% is now a strong 69.8%.

We snagged 50% of available offensive rebounds tonight, bringing our season total up to a very strong 45.8% (if we can continue at that rate it will be a Duke all-time record).

We also shot 72.3% on our two-point shots tonight, which is amazing (our previous season-best was 59.2% against Elon).
I will bet we will see O'Connell out there in competitive games. The kid can handle the ball- makes good and fast decisions, sees the floor, can score the ball from multiple spots on the floor and more importantly can hit throws- or has the potential to do so. Game situations will likely create moments for him. This Duke team is going to get into foul trouble in some games. I am not saying he will score 10 points but I have seen enough to trust him to spell guys and provide an offensive spark in a close game. The coaching staff knows he is better than they thought he would be at this stage.

Troublemaker
11-21-2017, 07:16 AM
45+% of Furman's shots were three-pointers. If our focus was to keep them from shooting threes, we didn't succeed very well.

Well, coming into the Duke game, 53% of Furman's shots were threes so we did hold down their attempts a little bit.

More to the point, though, you're right that previous Duke teams would have limited Furman's 3-pt attempts even more (< 40% of shots for sure and maybe < 30%) because we would have sold out and stuck to shooters no matter what, even when someone was driving free to the basket. As you know, the most drastic and borderline shocking change Duke has made this season is in how we approach guarding threes. A program that had been in the nation's top-25 in limiting three-point attempts in each of the past 16 seasons currently ranks 235th in the nation in that stat (kenpom). [Incidentally, if any Chronicle writers are reading this, you should ask Coach about this change.] So far this season, we've been selling out in the opposite direction, liberally leaving shooters to help on drives and postups inside. Recklessly leaving shooters on many possession, imo. You might say the challenge for this year's defense is finding the right balance.

So within that context, we DID focus on Furman's three-point shooting. We didn't shade our helpside quite so much towards the basket and away from shooters, which helped us chase shooters off the line on kickouts. Our switching prevented Furman from immediately popping threes coming off of ball screens. They still got their threes up, but many came in late-clock situations, after running 3 or 4 actions, and often with an athletic Duke defender closing out and spooking the shooter into a miss.

Troublemaker
11-21-2017, 07:19 AM
Too early to be sure, but think O’Connell stays in tight game rotations all year. Assuming Bolden remains healthy/productive Could K go with a 9 man rotation? We should no by end of week.

Your words say one thing but your Freudian Slip says another. No, Coach K will not play a 9-man rotation.

But O'Connell might have a chance to beat out Goldwire for the 8th spot.

JGold's going to start receiving the Tyler Thornton treatment where Duke fans clamor for a more talented guard to replace him in the rotation.

Troublemaker
11-21-2017, 07:24 AM
Well, coming into the Duke game, 53% of Furman's shots were threes so we did hold down their attempts a little bit.

More to the point, though, you're right that previous Duke teams would have limited Furman's 3-pt attempts even more (< 40% of shots for sure and maybe < 30%) because we would have sold out and stuck to shooters no matter what, even when someone was driving free to the basket. As you know, the most drastic and borderline shocking change Duke has made this season is in how we approach guarding threes. A program that had been in the nation's top-25 in limiting three-point attempts in each of the past 16 seasons currently ranks 235th in the nation in that stat (kenpom). [Incidentally, if any Chronicle writers are reading this, you should ask Coach about this change.] So far this season, we've been selling out in the opposite direction, liberally leaving shooters to help on drives and postups inside. Recklessly leaving shooters on many possession, imo. You might say the challenge for this year's defense is finding the right balance.

So within that context, we DID focus on Furman's three-point shooting. We didn't shade our helpside quite so much towards the basket and away from shooters, which helped us chase shooters off the line on kickouts. Our switching prevented Furman from immediately popping threes coming off of ball screens. They still got their threes up, but many came in late-clock situations, after running 3 or 4 actions, and often with an athletic Duke defender closing out and spooking the shooter into a miss.

One more thing. Coach K pretty much confirmed in the postgame presser that the focus was on guarding Furman's threes.

OldPhiKap
11-21-2017, 07:26 AM
The band sounded good tonight. Is it a bigger band this year?

We had a great recruiting year, although most of the brass section is OAD.

OldPhiKap
11-21-2017, 07:29 AM
I will bet we will see O'Connell out there in competitive games. The kid can handle the ball- makes good and fast decisions, sees the floor, can score the ball from multiple spots on the floor and more importantly can hit throws- or has the potential to do so. Game situations will likely create moments for him. This Duke team is going to get into foul trouble in some games. I am not saying he will score 10 points but I have seen enough to trust him to spell guys and provide an offensive spark in a close game. The coaching staff knows he is better than they thought he would be at this stage.

K was pretty positive about him after the game.

He also said that DeLaurier was not going to have any more DNPs this season, after only getting in 12games last year.

arnie
11-21-2017, 07:30 AM
Your words say one thing but your Freudian Slip says another. No, Coach K will not play a 9-man rotation.

But O'Connell might have a chance to beat out Goldwire for the 8th spot.

JGold's going to start receiving the Tyler Thornton treatment where Duke fans clamor for a more talented guard to replace him in the rotation.

Very good😎. Freudian or otherwise, I’m not sure I believed it either. Yes O’Connell may displace Goldwire if K comfortable with Grayson minutes at the point. I still can hope for 9, but even Bolden in the rotation is not a certainty.

Troublemaker
11-21-2017, 07:33 AM
JGold's going to start receiving the Tyler Thornton treatment where Duke fans clamor for a more talented guard to replace him in the rotation.

One more thing here, too. If Goldwire is going to continue to have a turnover rate of 38% and an overall offensive rating of 57, even I will be one of the people clamoring for O'Connell to replace him.

JGold's got to take fewer risks with his passing and be in game manager mode when he's relieving Trevon. Try to be Alex Smith (from previous seasons) and let Trevon be Aaron Rodgers Russell Wilson (since he stays healthy and Rodgers doesn't).

AGDukesky
11-21-2017, 08:01 AM
We were winning by 24 before Alex first stepped onto the floor. Unless something drastically changes (injury or whatever), he doesn't appear likely to make the rotation in competitive games. He still got my MOTM vote tonight, though.

Understood and why I was bemoaning your point with my comment. Last night was the perfect time to get him a couple of minutes in the first half, but maybe K was counting on a big lead in the second and extended minutes then. O’Connell got in against MSU in the first half albeit foul trouble played a part. I just hope he doesn’t become that guy (Marty, Alex Murphy, etc) who fans complain about lack of minutes all year...

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-21-2017, 08:23 AM
I just hope he doesn’t become that guy (Marty, Alex Murphy, etc) who fans complain about lack of minutes all year...

Then who will be that guy? Because you know it will happen.

Goldwire is the leader right now, I would say.

I suspect we have so many studs on our team, it will be tough to make those arguments, as someone has to come off the floor to get someone else minutes. But all it will take is back-to-back uninspired performances from any player for the calls for Bolden/Goldwire/White/O'Connell to get a bigger role.

It's an annual tradition!

dukelifer
11-21-2017, 08:24 AM
One more thing here, too. If Goldwire is going to continue to have a turnover rate of 38% and an overall offensive rating of 57, even I will be one of the people clamoring for O'Connell to replace him.

JGold's got to take fewer risks with his passing and be in game manager mode when he's relieving Trevon. Try to be Alex Smith (from previous seasons) and let Trevon be Aaron Rodgers Russell Wilson (since he stays healthy and Rodgers doesn't).

The part of O'Connell's game that I have been most impressed with is his passing. He has a feel for the game. He is also more fluid than I thought. Kid can play.

jaywilliams22
11-21-2017, 08:29 AM
we have more than 5 Fr.
J-Gold and J-Tuck haven't scored more than 10, Buckmire hasn't gotten into a game yet.

Any idea if we are thinking of redshirting Tucker? He's only seen action in 1 game this far, and was only for 6 minutes.

dukelifer
11-21-2017, 08:32 AM
Bagley is a human pogo stick. Not sure who has been better at getting off the floor - maybe Antawn Jamison. His bounciness is almost unfair.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-21-2017, 08:42 AM
Any idea if we are thinking of redshirting Tucker? He's only seen action in 1 game this far, and was only for 6 minutes.

Then red shirt is off the table.

MChambers
11-21-2017, 08:50 AM
That's probably underselling Javin's defense. He has much better timing on blocked shots and is the more switchable defender onto small guys, imo. But Marvin is the much better offensive player, of course.
Bagley’s defense isn’t bad. I was thinking last night that this is the first time I’ve felt comfortable watching a 6’11” Duke player switch onto the other team’s point guard at the top of the key.

BandAlum83
11-21-2017, 08:58 AM
The part of O'Connell's game that I have been most impressed with is his passing. He has a feel for the game. He is also more fluid than I thought. Kid can play.

What has impressed me is that he always seems to be in the right place at the right time on both ends of the floor. Ready to receive a pass or disrupt the opponent's pass.

I guess they call that a high basketball IQ these days. I think we used to call it great court awareness...or something.

MChambers
11-21-2017, 08:58 AM
either way, I wouldn't be surprised to see grayson as tournament MVP on saturday.

Since the finals are on Sunday, Grayson will have to have a tremendous pair of games Thursday and Friday to be named MVP on Saturday! 😉

BandAlum83
11-21-2017, 08:59 AM
Bagley is a human pogo stick. Not sure who has been better at getting off the floor - maybe Antawn Jamison. His bounciness is almost unfair.

Just don't call him Tigger. I believe I was first to call dibs on Tigger as Javin's nickname.

Post-Elon post still works for me:


Bagley is a beast. What more can I say about that? (Still applicable)

Grayson NPOY wouldn't surprise me. (He will show it again in Portland and as needed)

I want to see Carter unleashed for a full game without foul trouble. He's more than special. (Extra Special!!)

Trent has a smooth stroke. (I hope he get's it back in Portland!)

Duval is silky smooth on the break and 8 assists, no turnovers? What? That should silence the doubters for at least a day! (Are there any critics left?)

Javin is like Tigger! Bouncy! (Go Tigger!!)

O'connell looks like the annoying younger brother who insists on playing with the big kids and wants to prove he belongs. And he does! (Proving he belongs on the court every game!)

This season is going to be very very fun!

CajunDevil
11-21-2017, 09:04 AM
The part of O'Connell's game that I have been most impressed with is his passing. He has a feel for the game. He is also more fluid than I thought. Kid can play.

I agree, and I also agree with you on a point up thread where you mentioned O'Connell was going to get into the rotation in competitive games. O'Connell can shoot, pass, handle, drive and score in traffic. We need a third reliable shooter for when our first two are off. Does this mean Goldwire drops out of the rotation, perhaps if he doesn't improve his efficiency. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see both in the rotation. I know, I know, "K never plays a nine-man rotation..." but K used them both in the MSU game. I think it's safe to say that at least one will be in the rotation in competitive games.

As for not playing O'Connell until the lead had already ballooned last night, it seemed (from afar) like the staff was trying to get Grayson's mojo back - being out of practice and all... and that impacted when O'Connell came into the game. Of course, he could've come into the game for Trent... I don't have a theory for that :)

Troublemaker
11-21-2017, 09:04 AM
Bagley’s defense isn’t bad. I was thinking last night that this is the first time I’ve felt comfortable watching a 6’11” Duke player switch onto the other team’s point guard at the top of the key.

You should've seen him against Southern's guards; he struggled mightily. Then again, perhaps the Southern game data should be taken with a grain of salt, given the circumstances.

I'm not saying Marvin's a bad defender at all. Just saying I'm pretty sure Javin is better, as Javin is a very, very good defender.

DukieInBrasil
11-21-2017, 09:05 AM
Bagley is a human pogo stick. Not sure who has been better at getting off the floor - maybe Antawn Jamison. His bounciness is almost unfair.

He's got serious competition from his teammate and fellow pogo-stick user Javin Delaurier. Both of them did things last night that left me in awe.
Bagley's spin move for the dunk was insane, when he took off i was sure he wouldn't be able to dunk it and would have to lay it in. But no, he stuffed it with authority.
Javin blocked several shots, but the one where he pinned (or semi-pinned) it off the backboard well above the height of the painted square, was just amazing. He also has a knack for baiting people by lurking (what they think is) too far away before launching himself to block shots with his armpit.

CDu
11-21-2017, 09:25 AM
Man, these freshmen are fun to watch!

I'm a HUGE fan of Duval. He has a knack for making his fast play look slow. He's so under control, and yet he is still playing at a high pace. It's really impressive. It's even more impressive when you realize he's just 5 games into the season. Hopefully he only gets better from here, because he's already really good. 38 assists and only 7 turnovers. That's pretty darn good.

Bagley is just touching the surface with his potential. He's so lanky and springy. If he can find his comfort zone with the ball in his hands, look out. I like that he's starting to show some aptitude with his 3pt shot. If that gets to be even decent, he becomes almost unguardable. As is, he's pretty close to unguardable now. Average 19 and 9 in just 26 mpg, and those are all weighted down by his 10 minute appearance against MSU.

Carter is just a rock inside. He's so steady, and plays with such a gravity about him. I keep being drawn to comparisons to Elton Brand. I know that's not fair to Carter, but that's the type of presence I see from him. Just so big, so polished, and so rugged inside. Averaging 13 points, 9 rebounds and 2.8 blocks in 24 mpg, and leading the regulars in eFG% at 64%. He's also a good passer. If it weren't for Bagley, he'd be such a centerpiece in the middle. As is, he's still really important.

Switching gears from the freshmen, it's nice to see DeLaurier emerging as an impact player. He has virtually zero polish to his offensive game, but his energy and athleticism make him a nightmare for opponents on defense. It's really fun to see him hunt down passes and shots off ball. Such a dynamic weapon to have as the third big. He'll need to eventually develop some offensive skills moving forward (I'm thinking of next year), but for this year he's such a great weapon to have in that 15-20 mpg sixth-man role. Fills the stat sheet in so many ways other than scoring.

Bolden has started to play a bit better lately too. The team seems very diligent about getting him touches inside when he's in there, and he's starting to show some confidence. I thought he's played fairly well the last couple of games. Still very much a work in progress, and his plodding pace seems a bit out of place on this up-tempo team. But there's hope yet for him. One thing he's always done well is give effort in hedging defensively, so it's not a matter of effort for him. He's just really slow, and that makes things challenging. Especially on a team with lots of speed.

Allen had another off-night. He's still shooting 50% from 3pt range for the year, and his shooting prowess draws so much attention. And in a game in which we were winning easily, I'm okay with him saving his legs. We're going to need him in bigger games. No reason to fret in blowouts.

Trent has been mired in a bit of a slump the last few games. But in spite of that, he's stayed involved as a rebounder and defender. He's a bit jumpshot-reliant on offense, but it's nice that he's doing stuff off the ball to stay involved. On this team, his scoring is going to be more of an as-needed thing than a focal point. Again, not worried about him.

Well, hopefully the past few games have pumped the brakes a bit on the "Goldwire is going to be better than Thornton" and "Goldwire is a better shooter than Thornton" comments. He's now at 10% from the field and 14% from 3 for the season, averaging 0.8 points and 1 assist per game with as many turnovers as assists. That being said, he does seem to have a solid hold of the backup PG spot for now. So he'll continue to see regular minutes whenever Duval sits.

As for Goldwire's roommate, O'Connell has been such an entertaining player. The kid just oozes "Duke SG", and will almost certainly draw the ire of opposing fans as he gets more playing time. He's pesky defensively, he's uber-confident, and he's effective. I don't think he'll play a ton this year, but as he gets stronger I definitely can see a place for him in the rotation. Unfortunately, the last rotation spot (in competitive games) appears to be between him and Goldwire, and right now Goldwire seems to have the clear edge at the moment. That could always change, but for now it appears that Coach K favors Goldwire's defense in the backup PG role.

There really isn't much to add about this game in particular. We are a really talented team that will steamroll bad teams like Furman. And we did so. Looking forward to the weekend to see how the team responds again against some better competition. And trying to enjoy every game this group plays together, because they have a chance to be very special.

curtis325
11-21-2017, 09:28 AM
Then who will be that guy? Because you know it will happen.

Goldwire is the leader right now, I would say.

I suspect we have so many studs on our team, it will be tough to make those arguments, as someone has to come off the floor to get someone else minutes. But all it will take is back-to-back uninspired performances from any player for the calls for Bolden/Goldwire/White/O'Connell to get a bigger role.

It's an annual tradition!

It wasn't long before this yearly custom, became an annual tradition.

FerryFor50
11-21-2017, 09:30 AM
Your words say one thing but your Freudian Slip says another. No, Coach K will not play a 9-man rotation.

But O'Connell might have a chance to beat out Goldwire for the 8th spot.

JGold's going to start receiving the Tyler Thornton treatment where Duke fans clamor for a more talented guard to replace him in the rotation.

And K will continue to play JGold over O'Connell until O'Connell gets better on the defensive end, IMO. While O'Connell had a great game offensively, he also got blown by a couple of times on defense.

whereinthehellami
11-21-2017, 09:40 AM
It is pretty amazing to watch the freshmen figuring things out before our eyes. Bagley, Carter, and Duval all have the talent to take over the game and ISO on mismatches. Bagley with the ball one on one is a mismatch against everyone in college basketball. I love watching Carter with the ball down low, he is always under control and has incredible post moves. Duval is growing by leaps and bounds every game. I love how he probes the defense inside the arc, he has way too many weapons for defenders to contain. Once he is in the key it seems like he can get a layup at will or just toss it near the rim for a dunk.

This season has been like watching a series of SC top 10's.

FerryFor50
11-21-2017, 09:41 AM
Man, these freshmen are fun to watch!

I'm a HUGE fan of Duval. He has a knack for making his fast play look slow. He's so under control, and yet he is still playing at a high pace. It's really impressive. It's even more impressive when you realize he's just 5 games into the season. Hopefully he only gets better from here, because he's already really good. 38 assists and only 7 turnovers. That's pretty darn good.


I also love Duval's game, but I wonder how he'll fare against more physical guards and quieter whistles. We saw a bit of that in the MSU game, but I am more concerned with ACC play, where the refs tend to swallow whistles at times.

I am TOTALLY looking forward to seeing Duke - UNC this year after watching UNC play last night. While they handled Stanford easily, they just don't have the same talent level as Duke. Plus, they seem to want to run this season, which plays right into Duke's strength.

construe
11-21-2017, 09:44 AM
It wasn't long before this yearly custom, became an annual tradition.

Mmmm...caramel cod...

flyingdutchdevil
11-21-2017, 10:12 AM
1) The Marvin Bagley Show is here to stay. I thought he'd be good. I had no idea he'd be this good. The dude has an insane array of fast twitch muscles. I've never seen anything like this on the college level. He is a scorer that cannot be stopped. As a matter of fact, the only thing that can stop Bagley is DeLaurier's finger.

2) DeLaurier should be starting nearly everywhere else. Every year, there is a player that Duke fans will often complain about (pretty sure I know who that is this year). And every year, there is a player that Duke fans will rally around and love to death moreso than his talent suggests. That player this year is, undoubtedly, the trilinguist and the violin player: Mr. Javin DeLaurier himself. My wife loves this guy, but that's mainly before of his French last name. I love this guy because he is 100% energy. I really think Duke may have the two most active bigmen in the NCAA in Bagley and Javin.

3) Someone got through to Bolden. Loved his energy yesterday. That's the most energy I've seen from Bolden since he came to Duke. Screw the stats, I loved his performance in those 12 minutes.

4) Duval is the most fun player to watch. CDu said it best: He has a knack for making his fast play look slow. But Duval is such a special player: his playmaking, defense, and running the point are all well documented here. However, check out this stat over the last 5 games: Trevon is shooting 66% from 2pt range this year. 66%!!!! That is only second to Bagley's 66.1% (Duval is 65.9%. And I'm not counting Alex O'Connell). Yes - Duval is arguably the worst 3pt starting guard in Duke history, but he does everything else at such a high level. He is unselfish, he makes smart plays, and his athleticism is off the charts.

5) I like Allen's approach to these games. He's learned to play without being able to score. He's either getting players involved or just standing to one end and pulling the defense towards him, opening up lanes for Duval, and the two bigs. My gut tells me, however, that K will talk to Allen and say, "make the PK80 yours." And Allen will.

6) Where is Dana O'Neill? Alex O'Connell is another fun player to watch. He's not as skinny as folks think and he's very cerebral. Duke fans will love him; opposing fans won't.

7) Our D is a work in progress. And it should be. Players are really young and somehow learning two systems (M2M and zone). Our O? I mean, it's Coach K in the OAD era. It's spectacular.

FerryFor50
11-21-2017, 10:15 AM
3) Someone got through to Bolden.


My guess? Antibiotics.

kAzE
11-21-2017, 10:40 AM
Alex O'Connell is another fun player to watch. He's not as skinny as folks think and he's very cerebral.

Wait, what? He is really skinny . . . He's just taller than people think he is. He's 6'6". 6'6" athletes usually weigh 200+ pounds, but Alex is 170. He's definitely skinny, but it hasn't really hurt us yet. He doesn't play a big enough role at the moment to the point where he can picked on a mismatch. If he was in our regular rotation, I think his lack of strength would become more of an issue (we have super-swole Gary Trent). Right now he's a luxury role player who can obviously be a nice offensive spark off the bench. He's extremely smart like you said, and makes quick decisions with the ball. I've been very happy with his play thus far, but he still needs to put on some muscle.

DukieInBrasil
11-21-2017, 10:54 AM
My guess? Antibiotics.

While i agree that he appeared to be held back by recovering from strep, he looked better last night as a player. On the ball, Bolden is a pretty solid defender, moves his feet well, hedges well etc. Off the ball though, his defense is a total adventure, and not the good kind. I don't think he's figured out spacing or doesn't anticipate very well, as he seems to get caught out of position a lot. If the driver is coming strait at him, he's got a good knack for blocking shots, but if the driver is not in his area he's lost. On offense, Bolden had a respectable showing against much smaller guys, but i didn't see anything, other than going 2-2 on FTs, that made me think it would translate to playing against bigger, faster guys.
Some guys just get it right away and have an intuitive feel for the game, Bagley and Carter come to mind. Some guys just play with so much energy and athleticism that they make things happen constantly, Javin-Tigger comes to mind. Bolden doesn't fit into either of those molds, and that's fine, it's just gonna take him a bit more time to learn how to use his skills most effectively. I'm pulling for him b/c he plays for Duke and seems like a good guy and a good teammate. He doesn't have to be a star this year, or ever, for me to pull for him. He's an important part of this team, even if he's 4th on the bigs depth chart, even if he's 3rd or 5th. (none of this is meant as personal response to you Ff50, just general musings).

CDu
11-21-2017, 10:59 AM
Wait, what? He is really skinny . . . He's just taller than people think he is. He's 6'6". 6'6" athletes usually weigh 200+ pounds, but Alex is 170. He's definitely skinny, but it hasn't really hurt us yet. He doesn't play a big enough role at the moment to the point where he can picked on a mismatch. If he was in our regular rotation, I think his lack of strength would become more of an issue (we have super-swole Gary Trent). Right now he's a luxury role player who can obviously be a nice offensive spark off the bench. He's extremely smart like you said, and makes quick decisions with the ball. I've been very happy with his play thus far, but he still needs to put on some muscle.

Yeah, it's worth noting that O'Connell has really only played against wildly overmatched opponents. He played just 2 minutes against MSU. He IS really skinny, and that probably will be a limiting factor for him against better competition. I don't think he'll play a ton against better competition, in part because of that skinniness and in part because we (hopefully) aren't likely to need a ton of minutes from a backup SG on this team.

The dude does know how to score though, and has good skills with the ball. And he's more athletic than folks will think given his appearance, shooting touch, and rail-thin frame.

brlftz
11-21-2017, 11:10 AM
One thing I've been keeping an eye on is Grayson's habit of trying to bulldoze his way to the hoop. He's a deadly shooter and is able to get a first step with a shot fake, but he's not quick enough to reliably turn that first step into a clear path to the hoop. As a result his drives often end up looking like a sumo wrestling match, and too often in years past he ends up throwing up very difficult running hook shots. This year I've been very happy to see him instead use floaters or pull up 15 footers to finish those drives, and early on it looked like he had really transformed this side of his game. In the MSU game he hit a pull up jumper near the free throw line with a move that was pure NBA.

Last night, though, it looked like the Grayson bulldozer was back. I missed the Southern game so I don't know if he was doing it there too, but I'm hopeful this is a temporary reversion. Grayson using his first step to setup floaters and pull ups would be hard to stop. Those drives, though, are almost always disasters.

FerryFor50
11-21-2017, 11:11 AM
While i agree that he appeared to be held back by recovering from strep, he looked better last night as a player. On the ball, Bolden is a pretty solid defender, moves his feet well, hedges well etc. Off the ball though, his defense is a total adventure, and not the good kind. I don't think he's figured out spacing or doesn't anticipate very well, as he seems to get caught out of position a lot. If the driver is coming strait at him, he's got a good knack for blocking shots, but if the driver is not in his area he's lost. On offense, Bolden had a respectable showing against much smaller guys, but i didn't see anything, other than going 2-2 on FTs, that made me think it would translate to playing against bigger, faster guys.
Some guys just get it right away and have an intuitive feel for the game, Bagley and Carter come to mind. Some guys just play with so much energy and athleticism that they make things happen constantly, Javin-Tigger comes to mind. Bolden doesn't fit into either of those molds, and that's fine, it's just gonna take him a bit more time to learn how to use his skills most effectively. I'm pulling for him b/c he plays for Duke and seems like a good guy and a good teammate. He doesn't have to be a star this year, or ever, for me to pull for him. He's an important part of this team, even if he's 4th on the bigs depth chart, even if he's 3rd or 5th. (none of this is meant as personal response to you Ff50, just general musings).

I agree, but I think the strep was a big factor in his overall energy level. He seemed to be a bit faster against Furman and got a nice on-ball blocked shot.

I think he'll play important minutes this season.

BandAlum83
11-21-2017, 11:12 AM
I listened to the first half of the game by streaming it on my phone with Tune-in radio.

I haven't had a chance to watch the replay yet.

Does anyone know how long WatchEspn generally keeps replays available?

lotusland
11-21-2017, 11:20 AM
Your words say one thing but your Freudian Slip says another. No, Coach K will not play a 9-man rotation.

But O'Connell might have a chance to beat out Goldwire for the 8th spot.

JGold's going to start receiving the Tyler Thornton treatment where Duke fans clamor for a more talented guard to replace him in the rotation.

Yeah I think Alex’s PT will most likely be situational rather than consistent mpg. He may earn a a minute or two by out playing JGold but there may still be matchups where it’s better for JGold to play PG with GA and Trent on the wing while Duvall rests. Likewise Alex might give better balance than JGold when Grayson or Trent sit. Alex may get a look when GA or Trent’s shot isn’t falling and we need to stretch the defense. Obviously if Alex hits a couple shots he’ll probably get a longer look. Any back court injuries will almost certainly necessitate more minutes for JGold and Alex. I don’t think K necessarily plays Alex 10 or even 5 mpg every game though.

Hauerwas
11-21-2017, 11:42 AM
These guys remind me of watching the early 90's teams the way they rebound, push the ball and get out in the passing lanes to create easy buckets. I don't remember the '91 team being an incredibly efficient 3 point shooting team but then again it's been a while.

Duval is an absolute pro. You can tell K wanted him to hunt his own shot more last night and he really delivered.

Bagley is just not fair. For a guy his size to have the skill around the basket plus the ability to navigate the lane with ease, and his uncanny knack for getting his own rebounds, he actually reminds me a bit of Larry Bird in a weird sorta way.

Javin is so fun to watch. He's like a Swiss Army Knife out there, we're never going to run plays for him but he doesn't seem to mind. I wouldn't be surprised to see him at the top of a 1-3-1 zone at some point this year due to his length and athleticism, kinda like K did with Ingrim and Amile.

Grayson's attitude worried me a bit last night, did anyone catch that? His chicken-wing foul was uncalled for and there were a couple chippy moments in the second half. He seems to be on edge at times playing inferior competition, weird. Here's hoping he can channel that energy the appropriate way cause I hold my breathe any time he gets tangled up with somebody...

Bolden looked like the guy we recruited last year. Played big, moved well enough, and was a presence down low. He still gets lost on the ball screen up high but oh well.

These guys are just fun to watch and you can tell they want to win, they all have an edge and grit about them that I never saw last year. I never got the sense that last year's team hurt when they lost, these guys look like they want to bury you, and that reminds me of the Hurley/Leattner days. Those teams had a will to win, and so far these guys are developing that as well.

Troublemaker
11-21-2017, 12:09 PM
<snip>Bolden had a respectable showing against much smaller guys, but i didn't see anything, other than going 2-2 on FTs, that made me think it would translate to playing against bigger, faster guys.
<snip>

I actually look forward to seeing Marques compete against ACC-quality big men.

On defense, guarding 6'7" guys who can shoot threes isn't his thing. And on offense, against ACC big men, he'd get a chance to go 1-on-1 a lot more against people with his size. Against these cupcake teams, there's always such a huge crowd around him because of double and triple teams.

It honestly wouldn't shock me if he did well against Mo Bamba this week, for example.

flyingdutchdevil
11-21-2017, 12:25 PM
I actually look forward to seeing Marques compete against ACC-quality big men.

On defense, guarding 6'7" guys who can shoot threes isn't his thing. And on offense, against ACC big men, he'd get a chance to go 1-on-1 a lot more against people with his size. Against these cupcake teams, there's always such a huge crowd around him because of double and triple teams.

It honestly wouldn't shock me if he did well against Mo Bamba this week, for example.

It's a great challenge for Bolden. Bolden and Bamba have insane length, but Bamba's length would put him in the top 3 in the NBA right now.

The Carter/Bolden tandem in limiting Bamba is going to be interesting. I can actually see Bamba getting into a lot of foul trouble with our giants, especially if he tries to block everything Marvin Bagley puts up. If that happens, I don't think Texas stands a chance.

kAzE
11-21-2017, 12:36 PM
It's a great challenge for Bolden. Bolden and Bamba have insane length, but Bamba's length would put him in the top 3 in the NBA right now.

The Carter/Bolden tandem in limiting Bamba is going to be interesting. I can actually see Bamba getting into a lot of foul trouble with our giants, especially if he tries to block everything Marvin Bagley puts up. If that happens, I don't think Texas stands a chance.

Assuming Texas defeats Butler (and we defeat Portland St), they will be the most physically imposing front court we will have faced. Bamba is 6'11" 245, with a 20 foot wingspan and junior big man Dylan Osetkowski is 6'9" 245. That said, they are only slightly bigger than Michigan State, and we absolutely crushed Michigan State on the glass. Bamba will probably match up with Bagley, so I expect us to go to Carter in the post early and often, while Bagley tries to draw Bamba out of the paint, where he is averaging an insane 4.5 blocks per game.

It will be a good test for our big men, but I imagine Bagley and Carter will still generate a ton of fouls and still get a healthy amount of points, especially with Grayson and Tre getting the ball to them in good spots.

DukieInBrasil
11-21-2017, 12:49 PM
Assuming Texas defeats Butler (and we defeat Portland St), they will be the most physically imposing front court we will have faced. Bamba is 6'11" 245, with a 20 foot wingspan and junior big man Dylan Osetkowski is 6'9" 245. That said, they are only slightly bigger than Michigan State, and we absolutely crushed Michigan State on the glass. Bamba will probably match up with Bagley, so I expect us to go to Carter in the post early and often, while Bagley tries to draw Bamba out of the paint, where he is averaging an insane 4.5 blocks per game.

It will be a good test for our big men, but I imagine Bagley and Carter will still generate a ton of fouls and still get a healthy amount of points, especially with Grayson and Tre getting the ball to them in good spots.

Only 20 ft? I heard he can dunk it from half court, standing.

BandAlum83
11-21-2017, 12:56 PM
Only 20 ft? I heard he can dunk it from half court, standing.

While we were recruiting him, I thought I read that he could Dunk from K'Ville.

It was probably hyperbole...The actual wingspan is 8'13"

MChambers
11-21-2017, 12:57 PM
Bagley is just not fair. For a guy his size to have the skill around the basket plus the ability to navigate the lane with ease, and his uncanny knack for getting his own rebounds, he actually reminds me a bit of Larry Bird in a weird sorta way.
Although I understand what you mean, I don't think I'll ever see anyone else say Bagley reminds them of Larry Bird!

AGDukesky
11-21-2017, 01:18 PM
Although I understand what you mean, I don't think I'll ever see anyone else say Bagley reminds them of Larry Bird!

Yeah Bird only wishes he could have shot like Bagley...

Kedsy
11-21-2017, 01:50 PM
I don't remember the '91 team being an incredibly efficient 3 point shooting team but then again it's been a while.

The 1990-91 Duke team shot 38.3% from three-range. The 1991-92 team shot 43.4% from three.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-21-2017, 02:07 PM
Grayson's attitude worried me a bit last night, did anyone catch that? His chicken-wing foul was uncalled for and there were a couple chippy moments in the second half. He seems to be on edge at times playing inferior competition, weird. Here's hoping he can channel that energy the appropriate way cause I hold my breathe any time he gets tangled up with somebody...


I mentioned last night watching the game that Grayson seems more focused and mentally strong in our "bigger" games. If he does blow a gasket, it feel like it would be Elon/Southern/Furman, where his competitive edge just gets bored and he needs something to do.

I really hope he keeps his head straight this year. If he is pushing the envelope like he did with that weird forearm shove last night, he is going to attract all that negative attention in a heartbeat.

Hauerwas
11-21-2017, 02:28 PM
Yeah Bird only wishes he could have shot like Bagley...

I'm thinking more in his ability to know exactly where the ball was going and then being the first one to get it off the rebound. Bird wasn't the quickest or most athletic dude around, but he always knew where the ball was going and reacted faster than anyone, especially converting a great deal on his own misses. Bagley seems to have a similar instinct with cat-like athleticism...

ChillinDuke
11-21-2017, 02:29 PM
I mentioned last night watching the game that Grayson seems more focused and mentally strong in our "bigger" games. If he does blow a gasket, it feel like it would be Elon/Southern/Furman, where his competitive edge just gets bored and he needs something to do.

I really hope he keeps his head straight this year. If he is pushing the envelope like he did with that weird forearm shove last night, he is going to attract all that negative attention in a heartbeat.

Agreed, generally. But this is basketball. The forearm shove was nothing more than a forearm while his man was backing him down. It's a foul and was called as such. Nothing at all to be concerned about.

The refs seem to have gotten over calling fouls on Grayson every second. To my eye, they've been fair to him this year. They most certainly were not giving him any calls last year. Any.

- Chillin

sagegrouse
11-21-2017, 03:07 PM
I mentioned last night watching the game that Grayson seems more focused and mentally strong in our "bigger" games. If he does blow a gasket, it feel like it would be Elon/Southern/Furman, where his competitive edge just gets bored and he needs something to do.

I really hope he keeps his head straight this year. If he is pushing the envelope like he did with that weird forearm shove last night, he is going to attract all that negative attention in a heartbeat.

Our main problem is that we have five scorers on the floor and only one ball. Grayson will step up at the right time.

FerryFor50
11-21-2017, 03:09 PM
Our main problem is that we have five scorers on the floor and only one ball. Grayson will step up at the right time.

It's a good problem to have.

DukieInBrasil
11-21-2017, 03:54 PM
I mentioned last night watching the game that Grayson seems more focused and mentally strong in our "bigger" games. If he does blow a gasket, it feel like it would be Elon/Southern/Furman, where his competitive edge just gets bored and he needs something to do.

I really hope he keeps his head straight this year. If he is pushing the envelope like he did with that weird forearm shove last night, he is going to attract all that negative attention in a heartbeat.

although it fits in withe blow a gasket bit, the forearm shove seemed more of a response to getting totally bashed by the offensive player on the backdown just prior. Maybe thought Grayson thought the refs were allowing physical play and got corrected by the refs, or better put that defenders did not have the right to be physical. Overall, Grayson seemed quite restrained last night.

English
11-21-2017, 04:07 PM
although it fits in withe blow a gasket bit, the forearm shove seemed more of a response to getting totally bashed by the offensive player on the backdown just prior. Maybe thought Grayson thought the refs were allowing physical play and got corrected by the refs, or better put that defenders did not have the right to be physical. Overall, Grayson seemed quite restrained last night.

Fully on board with this--Grayson trying to body up a 6'8, 260# 4/5 in the post was a lost cause so he was just giving as hard as he was getting. It was a foul, but honestly, even Gerald's fellow broadcaster made a comment about how frequently smaller guards don't even get called for that foul if the offensive player is that much bigger. Eh, I didn't see anything from Grayson that was cause for concern, but I suppose YMMV.

Great team win, and fun game to watch.

ETA: it was unfortunate that the foul was called though, because Javin came in a swatted the shot attempt, which seems to be a clear strength of Javin's (and Marques', and Wendell's, and to a slightly lesser extent Marvin's).

DukieInBrasil
11-21-2017, 04:22 PM
Fully on board with this--Grayson trying to body up a 6'8, 260# 4/5 in the post was a lost cause so he was just giving as hard as he was getting. It was a foul, but honestly, even Gerald's fellow broadcaster made a comment about how frequently smaller guards don't even get called for that foul if the offensive player is that much bigger. Eh, I didn't see anything from Grayson that was cause for concern, but I suppose YMMV.

Great team win, and fun game to watch.

ETA: it was unfortunate that the foul was called though, because Javin came in a swatted the shot attempt, which seems to be a clear strength of Javin's (and Marques', and Wendell's, and to a slightly lesser extent Marvin's).

weak side blocked shots are Javin's thing. perhaps when guards get posted up they should do a semi-matador defense and allow (with some resistance) the big to go for a shot knowing that Javin will come from the other side to block it. Javin did that when Mounce was backing Bagley down too.

TruBlu
11-21-2017, 04:34 PM
I mentioned last night watching the game that Grayson seems more focused and mentally strong in our "bigger" games.

Reminds me of an old joke with the punchline:

“Just enough to win, dear. Just enough to win”

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-21-2017, 06:13 PM
although it fits in withe blow a gasket bit, the forearm shove seemed more of a response to getting totally bashed by the offensive player on the backdown just prior. Maybe thought Grayson thought the refs were allowing physical play and got corrected by the refs, or better put that defenders did not have the right to be physical. Overall, Grayson seemed quite restrained last night.

He absolutely has to be aware that the microscope is on him this season in unprecedented ways. It is ultimately up to him how he handles this season and what the narrative will be in the media.