This Week in the ACC: 11/20-11/26

[pfrduke]

Not a stellar opening week for the ACC. Outside of Duke's win over Michigan State, I don't think there was a single game this week that will be mentioned in any team's tournament profile (maybe UVA at VCU), and Wake and Pitt continue to really stink. 4 teams have finished their pre-season tournaments with no wins and only 1 team even made the finals (Clemson, losing to Temple).* Six tournaments are up this week, with only 2 having ACC favorites (Duke, Virginia), a couple decent opportunities (UNC, Notre Dame), and a pipe dream (NC State - I'm not even going to dignify Pitt with the suggestion that they might win). Here's how Feast Week (an ESPN moniker, sure, but one I've always liked) lines up.

*I am not counting FSU's win in Jamaica because it was not a tournament - it was just two pre-scheduled games in Montego Bay. Maybe nitpicky, but these are my nits to pick.

Monday
[6]Duke (-19) hosts [134]Furman (7:00, ACCNE)
[62]Syracuse (-7) hosts [97]Oakland (7:00, ACCNE)
[18]Notre Dame (NL) vs. [NR]Chaminade in Lahaina (9:00, ESPNU)
[139]Pittsburgh (+10) vs. [49]Penn State in Brooklyn (9:30, ESPN3)
[15]UNC (-5) at [70]Stanford (11:30, ESPN2)

Tuesday
[27]Louisville (-15) hosts [127]Southern Illinois (7:00, ACCNE)
[50]Virginia Tech (-22) hosts [284]Houston Baptist (7:00, ACCNE)
[18]Notre Dame vs. [42]Michigan/[78]LSU in Lahaina (8:00/10:30, ESPN2/ESPN)
[139]Pittsburgh vs. [8]Texas A&M/[41]Oklahoma State (3:30/6:00, ESPNU/ESPN2)

Wednesday
[43]Florida State (-24) hosts [306]Kennesaw State (2:00, ACCNE)
[80]Boston College (-10) hosts [175]Colgate (4:00, ACCNE)
[19]Miami (-10) hosts [133]La Salle (6:00, ACCNE)
[99]NC State (+15) vs. [2]Arizona in Atlantis (7:00, ESPN3)
[62]Syracuse (-10) hosts [151]Toledo (7:00, ACCNE)
[59]Georgia Tech (-20) hosts [279]UT Rio Grande Valley (7:30, ACCNE)
[18]Notre Dame vs. [3]Wichita State/[57]Marquette/[93]VCU/[125]California in Lahaina (TBD)

Thursday
[15]UNC (-23) vs. [303]Portland in Portland (2:30, ESPN)
[7]Virginia (-6) vs. [54]Vanderbilt in Brooklyn (4:00, ESPNU)
[6]Duke (-20) vs. [226]Portland State in Portland (4:30, ESPN)
[99]NC State vs. [24]SMU/[115]Northern Iowa in Atlantis (3:00/9:30)

Friday
[46]Clemson (-19) hosts [269]Texas Southern (3:00, ACCNE)
[59]Georgia Tech (-20) hosts [297]North Texas (4:00, ACCNE)
[27]Louisville (-19) hosts [227]St. Francis (PA) (7:00, ACCNE)
[77]Wake Forest (-9) hosts [158]UNC Greensboro (7:00, ACCNE)
[43]Florida State (-24) hosts [268]The Citadel (8:00, ACCNE)
[6]Duke vs. [32]Texas/[48]Butler in Portland (5:30/3:00, ESPN/ESPNU)
[15]UNC vs. [21]Oklahoma/[37]Arkansas in Portland (3:30/6:00, ESPN/ESPN3)
[7]Virginia vs. [28]Seton Hall/[56]Rhode Island in Brooklyn (7:30/9:45, ESPNU/ESPNEWS)
[99]NC State vs. [1]Villanova/[11]Purdue/[38]Tennessee/[232]Western Kentucky in Atlantis (TBD)

Saturday
[50]Virginia Tech (-20) hosts [263]Morehead State (1:00, ACCNE)
[139]Pittsburgh (-6) hosts [192]Lehigh (2:00, ACCNE)
[19]Miami (-25) hosts [285]North Florida (4:00, ACCNE)
[80]Boston College (+11) at [30]Providence (8:00, FS1)

Sunday
[6]Duke vs. [10]Florida/[22]Gonzaga/[67]Ohio State/[70]Stanford in Portland (TBD)
[15]UNC vs. [12]Michigan State/[34]Oregon/[66]Connecticut/[126]Depaul in Portland (TBD)

ACC Non-Conference Record: 42-10*
ACC v. Power 6: 3-2
America East: 1-0
American Athletic: 0-2
Atlantic 10: 5-1
Big East: 1-0
Big 12: 0-1
Big Sky: 0-1
Big South: 3-1
Big Ten: 1-0
Big West: 1-0
Colonial: 2-0
Horizon: 1-0
Ivy: 1-0
MAAC: 1-0
MAC: 1-0
MEAC: 4-0
MVC: 1-1
MWC: 1-0
NEC: 5-0
OVC: 1-0
Pac 12: 1-1
Patriot: 2-1
Southern: 4-0
Summit: 1-0
Sun Belt: 0-1
SWAC: 2-0
WAC: 2-0

*for comparison purposes, the Big 12 has 3 losses, the Big East and Pac-12 have 5, the SEC has 6, and the Big Ten has 7.

[brevity]

Thursday
[15]UNC (-23) vs. [303]Portland in Portland (2:30, ESPN)
[6]Duke (-20) vs. [226]Portland State in Portland (4:30, ESPN)

Friday
[6]Duke vs. [32]Texas/[48]Butler in Portland (5:30/3:00, ESPN/ESPNU)
[15]UNC vs. [21]Oklahoma/[37]Arkansas in Portland (3:30/6:00, ESPN/ESPN3)

Sunday
[6]Duke vs. [10]Florida/[22]Gonzaga/[67]Ohio State/[70]Stanford in Portland (TBD)
[15]UNC vs. [12]Michigan State/[34]Oregon/[66]Connecticut/[126]Depaul in Portland (TBD)

So... with the possible exception of the Friday game, Duke has the harder PK80 bracket. How much did Michael Jordan have to pay Nike (back) for that?

[Olympic Fan]

So... with the possible exception of the Friday game, Duke has the harder PK80 bracket. How much did Michael Jordan have to pay Nike (back) for that?

I disagree -- you're putting too much weight on Pomeroy's waa-a-y too early rankings.

Michigan State (assuming Bridges was not hurt seriously last night) is better than Florida or Gonzaga. And the difference between Portland and Portland State is infinitesimal -- if either Duke or the Cheats struggle in that one, something is seriously wrong.

I agree that Duke will have a slightly tougher semifinal (Butler or Texas vs. Oklahoma or Arkansas), but a healthy Michigan State is a much better test for the Cheats.

[Olympic Fan]

Another ugly night for Pitt -- and it's likely to get uglier tonight when the Panthers take on Oklahoma State in Barclays.

I'm interested to see the Notre Dame-LSU game from Maui ....

It's a great week of basketball

[MChambers]

I disagree -- you're putting too much weight on Pomeroy's waa-a-y too early rankings.

Michigan State (assuming Bridges was not hurt seriously last night) is better than Florida or Gonzaga. And the difference between Portland and Portland State is infinitesimal -- if either Duke or the Cheats struggle in that one, something is seriously wrong.

I agree that Duke will have a slightly tougher semifinal (Butler or Texas vs. Oklahoma or Arkansas), but a healthy Michigan State is a much better test for the Cheats.
Except for the fact that MSU isn't any better against UNCheat than against Duke. Maybe Izzo will surprise me. Certainly has more talent this year than UNCheat.

[PackMan97]

I'm excited to see how Kevin Keatt's Wolfpack looks against a real team. I'm not optamistic that our press will hold up against a real team, and that could make things get ugly, fast!

[AGDukesky]

Except for the fact that MSU isn't any better against UNCheat than against Duke. Maybe Izzo will surprise me. Certainly has more talent this year than UNCheat.

Agreed. I fully expect MSU to curl up into the fetal position just after tip-off..

[JasonEvans]

Agreed. I fully expect MSU to curl up into the fetal position just after tip-off..

If they play, which is a big if as they both need to win 2 games to get there, it will be a very interesting test for the Heels as MSU has one of the top front courts in all of college basketball with Bridges, Ward, and JJJ (and backup Gavin Schilling is they very definition of a crafty veteran). The Heels weakness is MSU's strength. If MSU meekly lays down for the Heels it would really, really surprise me.

-Jason "I suspect Vegas would make MSU about a 3 point favorite in that game... I'd jump all over MSU in a huge way at anything less than MSU -6" Evans

[CDu]

If they play, which is a big if as they both need to win 2 games to get there, it will be a very interesting test for the Heels as MSU has one of the top front courts in all of college basketball with Bridges, Ward, and JJJ (and backup Gavin Schilling is they very definition of a crafty veteran). The Heels weakness is MSU's strength. If MSU meekly lays down for the Heels it would really, really surprise me.

-Jason "I suspect Vegas would make MSU about a 3 point favorite in that game... I'd jump all over MSU in a huge way at anything less than MSU -6" Evans

The problem is that Izzo's preferred style of play is up-tempo, which plays right into the strengths of UNC. Which is a big part of why Izzo has never beaten UNC.

Maybe that changes this year. But I'm skeptical. Especially since UNC has the clear edge at PG, which is a pretty important part of the ability to play well up-tempo.

[Olympic Fan]

Except for the fact that MSU isn't any better against UNCheat than against Duke. Maybe Izzo will surprise me. Certainly has more talent this year than UNCheat.

Fair comment ... at the same time, K is a combined 7-1 against Florida and Gonzaga ... Izzo HAS beaten Roy (when Roy was at Kansas)

My point was -- and is -- that Michigan State is a better team than whoever Duke gets in the finals.

[JasonEvans]

My point was -- and is -- that Michigan State is a better team than whoever Duke gets in the finals.

I am mostly in full agreement with you there... except to note that Florida may be really, really good this year. I think they are the best team in the SEC. Pomeroy has them higher rated than Michigan St at the moment. They are exceptionally experienced for a top program, with juniors and seniors all over the place. They will be men playing against boys if they face us in the finals. And while our boys all have the NBA in their future, that is not to say that the less gifted but far more experienced men won't come out on top.

-Jason "Florida has one of the best backcourts in the country in Koulechov, Allen, and Chiozza... and they are all 22+ years old" Evans

[Olympic Fan]

Pitt was actually competitive in a 73-67 loss to Okie State in the Barclays Center.

Not that OSU is THAT good, but it's the first sign of life I've seen from Pitt this year.

[JasonEvans]

Holy @#$^@!

Notre Dame just laid the wood to a somewhat respectable P5 team in LSU. Final score from Maui, 92-53. The Irish get Wichita St in the championship game (the Shockers beat Wojo's Marquette club 80-66, pulling away late from what had been a relatively close game). ND vs Wichita appears to be one of the top early season matchups and could tell us a lot about both teams. Aside from my regular pro-ACC bias, it is worth noting that Wichita doesn't have all that many tough games left on the schedule after this one (they play at Baylor and at Okie St as well as a pair with Cincy, but the rest of their schedule is fairly easy). I'll say it right now -- if Wichita wins this game and beats Baylor next week, they will be a #1 seed.

-Jason "go ACC, go Irish!" Evans

[PackMan97]

Notre Dame just laid the wood to a somewhat respectable P5 team in LSU. Final score from Maui, 92-53

-Jason "go ACC, go Irish!" Evans

I know a lot of people hate on the Golden Domers, but I view them as one of the good guys in college sports. It's worth noting that yesterday was Notre Dame's last day of NCAA probation for an academic misconduct scandal that occured in 2012.

For those interested in how a University properly self-reports academic misconduct and applies their honor code to the student athletes in question, please see this FAQ the Notre Dame put together. It's a shame that it was a student trainer providing the help, if it had been a secretary helping the athletes in quesiton could have been awarded credits toward graduation and maybe even a diploma!
http://www.und.com/ot/ncaa-faq.html

[Olympic Fan]

Holy @#$^@!

Notre Dame just laid the wood to a somewhat respectable P5 team in LSU. Final score from Maui, 92-53. The Irish get Wichita St in the championship game (the Shockers beat Wojo's Marquette club 80-66, pulling away late from what had been a relatively close game). ND vs Wichita appears to be one of the top early season matchups and could tell us a lot about both teams. Aside from my regular pro-ACC bias, it is worth noting that Wichita doesn't have all that many tough games left on the schedule after this one (they play at Baylor and at Okie St as well as a pair with Cincy, but the rest of their schedule is fairly easy). I'll say it right now -- if Wichita wins this game and beats Baylor next week, they will be a #1 seed.

-Jason "go ACC, go Irish!" Evans

I was also watching.

I've been off this week and that has allowed me to see a lot of basketball. The Irish were extremely impressive last night. Wichita State is the real deal -- big, talented and extremely experienced. The Notre Dame-Wichita State finale in Maui ought to be amazing.

I'm also looking forward to watching NC State take on Arizona in the Bahamas. Keatts has done his best to soften NC State's schedule, but this is a commitment for the Atlantis Tournament that gives him a real non-conference test. Villanova is also in the Atlantis field, but will be in the other bracket, so we're looking at a Arizona-Villanova championship game. State has a chance against the rest of the field --SMU, Tennessee, Northern Iowa and Western Kentucky. The Pack gets the SMU-Northern Iowa loser after they lose to Arizona.

Penn State (in Raleigh) is the only other half-decent non-conference opponent on Keatts' schedule. I was told by a Wolfpack insider that he is trying to make sure that the Pack can at least earn an NIT bid -- he doesn't expect this team to be NCAA worthy.

Five other ACC games tonight, but they are all walk-overs.

[arnie]

I was also watching.

I've been off this week and that has allowed me to see a lot of basketball. The Irish were extremely impressive last night. Wichita State is the real deal -- big, talented and extremely experienced. The Notre Dame-Wichita State finale in Maui ought to be amazing.

I'm also looking forward to watching NC State take on Arizona in the Bahamas. Keatts has done his best to soften NC State's schedule, but this is a commitment for the Atlantis Tournament that gives him a real non-conference test. Villanova is also in the Atlantis field, but will be in the other bracket, so we're looking at a Arizona-Villanova championship game. State has a chance against the rest of the field --SMU, Tennessee, Northern Iowa and Western Kentucky. The Pack gets the SMU-Northern Iowa loser after they lose to Arizona.

Penn State (in Raleigh) is the only other half-decent non-conference opponent on Keatts' schedule. I was told by a Wolfpack insider that he is trying to make sure that the Pack can at least earn an NIT bid -- he doesn't expect this team to be NCAA worthy.

Five other ACC games tonight, but they are all walk-overs.

Enjoyed Keatt’s comment that he’s playing the best team in the country tonight. I didn’t think he meant anything by it, but local media seemed to enjoy the Duke diss.

[PackMan97]

I'm also looking forward to watching NC State take on Arizona in the Bahamas. Keatts has done his best to soften NC State's schedule, but this is a commitment for the Atlantis Tournament that gives him a real non-conference test. Villanova is also in the Atlantis field, but will be in the other bracket, so we're looking at a Arizona-Villanova championship game. State has a chance against the rest of the field --SMU, Tennessee, Northern Iowa and Western Kentucky. The Pack gets the SMU-Northern Iowa loser after they lose to Arizona.

Losing Maverick Rowan (to Europe?) and Terry Henderson (to the NCAA's stupidity no 6th year of eligibilty because of 7 minutes played before a season ending injury) were big blows to a quick rebuild for NC State. SMU would be a tough game for State if State and SMU both lose, but I like our chances against Northern Iowa. The most likely scenario I see is 1-2 dropping our first to Arizona, winning the second and losing to Purdue/Tenn in the 5th/6th place game. If we want to make something of the season, I think we need to win that third game as well as Penn State next week to get some quality wins outside of the ACC.

[BandAlum83]

Enjoyed Keatt’s comment that he’s playing the best team in the country tonight. I didn’t think he meant anything by it, but local media seemed to enjoy the Duke diss.

Perhaps the country he was referring to was the Bahamas. ;)

[PackMan97]

Perhaps the country he was referring to was the Bahamas. ;)

I'm sure that's exactly what Coach K meant.

[JasonEvans]

I'm sure that's exactly what Coach K meant.

Whoa whoa whoa... hang on a sec. There will be no referencing of Coach Keatts as Coach K. Them’s fighting words around here ;)

[PackMan97]

Whoa whoa whoa... hang on a sec. There will be no referencing of Coach Keatts as Coach K. Them’s fighting words around here ;)

I think that's the third time I've done that...you are the first to find offense :) How about Coack 2K or Coach KK?

[devildeac]

I think that's the third time I've done that...you are the first to find offense :) How about Coack 2K or Coach KK?

I noted it before and found it rather amusing. :rolleyes:

[OldPhiKap]

“Mini-K” ???

[davekay1971]

I'm already looking forward to the I-70 battles between Koach Keats and Koach Kollins, once Koach K retires, as Keats and Kollins are Kronologically Klose in age

[BandAlum83]

I think that's the third time I've done that...you are the first to find offense :) How about Coack 2K or Coach KK?

How about Coach (Wish I were anywhere near as good as the GOAT to be referred to by just a letter) Keatts?

[PackMan97]

How about Coach (Wish I were anywhere near as good as the GOAT to be referred to by just a letter) Keatts?

I didnt' want to go there, but Coach Keatts winning % at NC State (for a few more hours at least) is 100%

[devildeac]

I'm already looking forward to the I-70 battles between Koach Keats and Koach Kollins, once Koach K retires, as Keats and Kollins are Kronologically Klose in age

You must be krazy...

[DU82]

Losing Maverick Rowan (to Europe?) and Terry Henderson (to the NCAA's stupidity no 6th year of eligibilty because of 7 minutes played before a season ending injury) were big blows to a quick rebuild for NC State.

Please stop. The only way a player gets a sixth year is if you miss two years to injuries. Henderson lost ONE year to injury (less 7 minutes) and one year to transfer. He wasn’t going to get a sixth year.

If you want to complain about the NCAA’s transfer rules, fine, but not this.

[Neals384]

I think that's the third time I've done that...you are the first to find offense :) How about Coack 2K or Coach KK?

The rest of us cringed silently. You are a good guest here!

[OldPhiKap]

The rest of us cringed silently. You are a good guest here!

Agreed. Our Wolfpack and Wahoo members are consistently top of the visitor’s board. Clemson as well, when we get them.

[devildeac]

Agreed. Our Wolfpack and Wahoo members are consistently top of the visitor’s board. Clemson as well, when we get them.

I see you're still keeping your starch/carb intake to a minimum...

;)

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Agreed. Our Wolfpack and Wahoo members are consistently top of the visitor’s board. Clemson as well, when we get them.

Indeed. We are truly blessed on this board to have all our local rivals represented so respectfully.

[TruBlu]

Well, maybe Packman is right to call his coach “Coach K”. ESPN is showing State as a 12.5 point favorite over #2 Arizona.

Or should this be on the ESPN Typo thread?

[OldPhiKap]

Indeed. We are truly blessed on this board to have all our local rivals represented so respectfully.

I’m surprised we don’t get more Wake traffic. I’d like some insight on what’s going on over there from a fan’s perspective. (Okay, maybe not this year so far but in general). Wake is a respected institution in the state and at times has had some fierce players.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I’m surprised we don’t get more Wake traffic. I’d like some insight on what’s going on over there from a fan’s perspective. (Okay, maybe not this year so far but in general). Wake is a respected institution in the state and at times has had some fierce players.

I was going to comment about "only missing a good Wake fan to complete our Good Local Universities," but wasn't sure if I was forgetting someone.

Yup, State, Virginia, Clemson... Pretty much covers it if we had Wake.

[OldPhiKap]

Can’t imagine I will make it long enough for the ND - Shockers game at 10:30 or so, but should be great.

Do we have any ND posters? Would like to see more representation from them as well. Great school, great programs, great traditions. And the friendliest football hosts you could ever hope to meet.

[jv001]

I was going to comment about "only missing a good Wake fan to complete our Good Local Universities," but wasn't sure if I was forgetting someone.

Yup, State, Virginia, Clemson... Pretty much covers it if we had Wake.

And we have had some Cuse fans visit for a while. All very good visitors with no axe to grind. GoDuke!

[OldPhiKap]

And we have had some Cuse fans visit for a while. All very good visitors with no axe to grind. GoDuke!

True. We have been blessed to have some fine representatives of the better programs in the conference.

Syracuse has been kind of an enigma to me since joining the conference.

[sagegrouse]

I was going to comment about "only missing a good Wake fan to complete our Good Local Universities," but wasn't sure if I was forgetting someone.

Yup, State, Virginia, Clemson... Pretty much covers it if we had Wake.

How about devildeac?

[proelitedota]

Puppies up early on Wildcats. Keep at it.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

How about devildeac?

I assumed it was a beer reference.

[ipatent]

Puppies up early on Wildcats. Keep at it.

Not sure how long it will last. Ayton is a horse and he can shoot.

[OldPhiKap]

Not sure how long it will last. Ayton is a horse and he can shoot.

I’ll believe if the game moves over to the “don’t jinx” thread with five or so to go.

[PackMan97]

Good news is the pack came to play. Don't know how it will turn out, but clearly we aren't the same deer in the headlight team we've been in years part the first time we played a decent team.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Not sure how long it will last. Ayton is a horse and he can shoot.

I'd totally watch that!

[OldPhiKap]

I'd totally watch that!

Equestrian biathlon?

[PackMan97]

Knotted up 40 all at the half.

[OldPhiKap]

Knotted up 40 all at the half.

Pulling for you tonight.

Pulling stronger for you on the gridiron Saturday.

Make it a double!

[Olympic Fan]

Knotted up 40 all at the half.

Nice showing, but the halftime score is a bit of a disappointment. State outplayed them most of the half and led all the way (up 10 early and up seven with three minutes left).

Still, nice showing from Beverly, Freeman and (surprise, surprise) Yurtseven.

Interesting news out of Atlanta ... Assistant coach Darryl LaBarrie on leave while they investigate charges of rules violations, plus guard Justin Moore suspended two games (the third Tech starter to miss time this season).

[PackMan97]

I would expect consistency to be a big issue for state, especially early in the season.

[DukieInBrasil]

I like what i'm seeing from State. I only tuned after half time, surprised to see them up. they've built the lead even since the half.
Freeman(s)!

[Doria]

Glad to see that my good feeling about Keatts appears to be justified. Go Pack!!

[mgtr]

Haven't seen either team play until tonight. Arizona is good, Ayton and Trier are for real. But State is putting it to them. Hard to believe that they are not ranked. 1:28 to go and State up by 8. This may make the ACC a real horse race -- Duke, UNC, NC State, Virginia and Notre Dame all have a shot. Impressive.

[ipatent]

What a great win for the new State coach.

[JasonEvans]

Ok, I am officially saying that he is allowed to be called Coach K for the next 24 hours. Really impressive win.

Jason “should State sign Keatts to an extension right now?” Evans

[mgtr]

So, State ends up winning the game. Anybody have a notion as to the morning line? Maybe Arizona -10? Certainly a money-making opportunity if you have the cojones to put up some real jack. I readily admit that I don't and don't want to do that. I had to work too hard for what I have to fluff it away in a couple silly bets. So, what kind of jumble will we see in the rankings on Monday?

[jv001]

State bench(3 players) score 41 of States 92 points. Great victory for Coach little K. It will be wonderful if State can get back to their glory days. Well, not at the expense of my Blue Devils, but none the less, a 5-0 start with a win over the #2 team in the country ain't bad. GoDuke!

[PackMan97]

I'd like yall to meet my nephew.

https://www.google.com/search?q=monkey+pictute&oq=monkey+pictute&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l3.8516j0j7&client=ms-android-americamovil-us&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=I9xO0Z7TOHvKpM:

[OldPhiKap]

Ok, I am officially saying that he is allowed to be called Coach K for the next 24 hours. Really impressive win.

Jason “should State sign Keatts to an extension right now?” Evans

Agree on the first point, great win.

As to the extension, I know you’re joking but Paul Hewitt is my example of caution for irrational exuberance in contractual matters. But wholly agree, this is the biggest State win I can remember in too long!

[OldPhiKap]

I'd like yall to meet my nephew.

https://www.google.com/search?q=monkey+pictute&oq=monkey+pictute&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l3.8516j0j7&client=ms-android-americamovil-us&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=I9xO0Z7TOHvKpM:

Congrats on the win, Uncle PackMan97!

[Troublemaker]

Agree on the first point, great win.

As to the extension, I know you’re joking but Paul Hewitt is my example of caution for irrational exuberance in contractual matters. But wholly agree, this is the biggest State win I can remember in too long!

Probably since they beat us in 2015, unfortunately.

Speaking of which, they look like they're going to be a handful for anyone. Lots of really quick guards on that team. Congrats PackMan

[dukefan_828]

Wooooolfff... Keaton w a early signature win!! Love it ACC

[devildeac]

I’m surprised we don’t get more Wake traffic. I’d like some insight on what’s going on over there from a fan’s perspective. (Okay, maybe not this year so far but in general). Wake is a respected institution in the state and at times has had some fierce players.

I don't think Wake folks like us very much based on what some folks have posted here in the past after reading their boards. I hope it's not my screen name :o:rolleyes:.

[OldPhiKap]

I don't think Wake folks like us very much based on what some folks have posted here in the past after reading their boards. I hope it's not my screen name :o:rolleyes:.

If they knew you, they would like you.

But I think your point is valid, their dislike of us is not really reciprocated or even acknowledged.

[devildeac]

How about devildeac?


I assumed it was a beer reference.

I have a secondary allegiance to WFU. Pretty much all Duke, all the time. There's a bit of marital friction when WFU plays NCSU as my wife's Dad went to NCSU (undergrad and masters) so she has a soft spot there for the folks in red and white (and black and grey or whatever colors their shoe/clothing contract stipulates they wear.

[dukelifer]

Agreed. I fully expect MSU to curl up into the fetal position just after tip-off..

UNC is much better than people think. They have seniors and other upperclassmen that have been in very big games. Never count out a team with an experienced point guard that can score and good players who have played together. They are going to be in every game and can easily win it all- with the right path. It will be very painful if they do that.

[UrinalCake]

Awesome win by State, I was expecting them to make a leap next season but it is great that they are already making some noise. Our game at the RBC Center (or whatever it's called now) is going to be tough, it's right at the tail end of the exam/holiday break where our schedule is so broken up, and it will be our first ACC road game in a hostile environment (we do play Indiana and BC on the road beforehand, but State is a more quality opponent).

I guess Kansas will move up to #2, assuming no more upsets. I really thought Arizona was deserving of the #1 ranking coming into the season, and it may still end up that way, but for right now we are the clear-cut #1.

[gray]

What an exciting finish to the Norte Dame v. Wichita St. game. Notre Dame comes back from 16 down in the second half to give themselves an opportunity to win at the line with 2.3 seconds left. The first free throw hangs on the rim for about a second before falling, then the second is butter. Wichita St. can’t get a final shot off and ND gets the title in Maui!

[duke4ever19]

What an exciting finish to the Norte Dame v. Wichita St. game. Notre Dame comes back from 16 down in the second half to give themselves an opportunity to win at the line with 2.3 seconds left. The first free throw hangs on the rim for about a second before falling, then the second is butter. Wichita St. can’t get a final shot off and ND gets the title in Maui!

And don't forget that steal by Farrell the possession following the Colson 3-point miss. Wow.

That was no luck of the Irish. That was pure skill and savvy on Farrell's part. What a great game.

[Troublemaker]

Great championship game in Maui. What a gutty win and comeback by the Irish!



Awesome win by State, I was expecting them to make a leap next season but it is great that they are already making some noise. Our game at the RBC Center (or whatever it's called now) is going to be tough, it's right at the tail end of the exam/holiday break where our schedule is so broken up, and it will be our first ACC road game in a hostile environment (we do play Indiana and BC on the road beforehand, but State is a more quality opponent)..

Yikes, take it back! Unjinx! Assembly Hall is going to be nuts for the Duke-IU game, and BC is pretty good this year. At least one of those games is going to be very tough. IU and BC are well within the range of home teams that have defeated Duke in the past.

[Olympic Fan]

What an exciting finish to the Norte Dame v. Wichita St. game. Notre Dame comes back from 16 down in the second half to give themselves an opportunity to win at the line with 2.3 seconds left. The first free throw hangs on the rim for about a second before falling, then the second is butter. Wichita St. can’t get a final shot off and ND gets the title in Maui!

Awesome night for the ACC -- NC State upsets No. 2 Arizona and No. 13 Notre Dame rallies from 16 down to beat No. 6 Wichita State (and win the Maui Tournament)

The ACC goes 7-0 for the day ...

[AGDukesky]

UNC is much better than people think. They have seniors and other upperclassmen that have been in very big games. Never count out a team with an experienced point guard that can score and good players who have played together. They are going to be in every game and can easily win it all- with the right path. It will be very painful if they do that.

It wouldn’t matter if UNC was the worst team in the country, MSU would still lay an egg. However, I’m not sure how a team ranked in the top 10 is much better than people think. Unfortunately Roy’s continued blind luck of keeping top 30 recruits (while missing on almost all of his OAD targets) longer than everyone else makes UNC a contender every year...

[Troublemaker]

Happy Thanksgiving, everybody!

Food for thought, in addition to your turkey. Is the ACC actually down this year like it's supposed to be? Maybe statistically that's the case but here's what I have so far, according to my eye test:

Better (7): Duke, UVA, ND, Miami, VaTech, NCSU, BC

Roughly the Same (3): FSU, Clemson, Cuse

Worse (5): UNC, Lville, GaTech, Wake, Pitt


Again, I'm not using kenpom for this. I know his rankings disagree on a few of these.

With that said, it's early. Let's see if the list changes in a month.

[jv001]

I have a secondary allegiance to WFU. Pretty much all Duke, all the time. There's a bit of marital friction when WFU plays NCSU as my wife's Dad went to NCSU (undergrad and masters) so she has a soft spot there for the folks in red and white (and black and grey or whatever colors their shoe/clothing contract stipulates they wear.

After Duke, I usually root for Wake, NCSU because those teams play by the rules and it doesn't hurt that they are all in the wonderful state called North Carolina. I grew up rooting for Duke and State because some older friends got me interested in college basketball and those two schools were their favorite teams. But as far as knowing any Wake fan that would visit DBR, I don't know one. They're jealous of Duke's success on the basketball court but not to the point they are consumed by it. Unlike the wantabee fans of a team that I can not bring myself to name. I'm looking for the ACC to be the best basketball conference in the country this season and I like that. I'll be rooting for every ACC team but one. It's time things come back to norm. GoDuke!

[Tripping William]

After Duke, I usually root for Wake, NCSU because those teams play by the rules and it doesn't hurt that they are all in the wonderful state called North Carolina. I grew up rooting for Duke and State because some older friends got me interested in college basketball and those two schools were their favorite teams. But as far as knowing any Wake fan that would visit DBR, I don't know one. They're jealous of Duke's success on the basketball court but not to the point they are consumed by it. Unlike the wantabee fans of a team that I can not bring myself to name. I'm looking for the ACC to be the best basketball conference in the country this season and I like that. I'll be rooting for every ACC team but one. It's time things come back to norm. GoDuke!

I think it was Dave Odom that griped that Wake Forest is everyone’s second-favorite team. And, in a lot of ways, they’re like Switzerland: Complete neutrality while the powers are at war. And I say that having lived here in “Zurich” for 21+ years now.

[Rich]

Well, maybe Packman is right to call his coach “Coach K”. ESPN is showing State as a 12.5 point favorite over #2 Arizona.

Or should this be on the ESPN Typo thread?

Alas, they didn't cover the spread.

[OldPhiKap]

After Duke, I usually root for Wake, NCSU because those teams play by the rules and it doesn't hurt that they are all in the wonderful state called North Carolina. I grew up rooting for Duke and State because some older friends got me interested in college basketball and those two schools were their favorite teams. But as far as knowing any Wake fan that would visit DBR, I don't know one. They're jealous of Duke's success on the basketball court but not to the point they are consumed by it. Unlike the wantabee fans of a team that I can not bring myself to name. I'm looking for the ACC to be the best basketball conference in the country this season and I like that. I'll be rooting for every ACC team but one. It's time things come back to norm. GoDuke!

This reminds me of Dave Odom’s comment that, in North Carolina, Wake is everybody’s second-favorite team.

(Oops, see that TWm beat me to it).

[Wander]

I am mostly in full agreement with you there... except to note that Florida may be really, really good this year. I think they are the best team in the SEC. Pomeroy has them higher rated than Michigan St at the moment. They are exceptionally experienced for a top program, with juniors and seniors all over the place. They will be men playing against boys if they face us in the finals. And while our boys all have the NBA in their future, that is not to say that the less gifted but far more experienced men won't come out on top.


You're right. It's so early in the year that we have no idea who's better between Florida and Michigan State right now. They're separated by 2 or 3 spots in the polls. The games against Duke and UNC will partially tell us.

[Papa John]

UNC is much better than people think. They have seniors and other upperclassmen that have been in very big games. Never count out a team with an experienced point guard that can score and good players who have played together. They are going to be in every game and can easily win it all- with the right path. It will be very painful if they do that.

Not to mention the fact that they don't have to worry about going to class, thanks to the NCAA. ;)

[Troublemaker]

Check out NCSU's footprint in Arizona and Notre Dame's in Kansas after last night's upset wins.

https://i.imgur.com/wqjnq9n.jpg

[Troublemaker]

You're right. It's so early in the year that we have no idea who's better between Florida and Michigan State right now. They're separated by 2 or 3 spots in the polls. The games against Duke and UNC will partially tell us.

Obligatory: Is either matchup going to take place? Some tough games have to be won before we can see Duke-Florida or UNC-MSU

[Wander]

Obligatory: Is either matchup going to take place? Some tough games have to be won before we can see Duke-Florida or UNC-MSU

Yup. I forgot this was an extensive bracket. Would not be surprised to see a team like Gonzaga make the finals of their bracket.

[gray]

And don't forget that steal by Farrell the possession following the Colson 3-point miss. Wow.

That was no luck of the Irish. That was pure skill and savvy on Farrell's part. What a great game.

Yeah, that steal reminded me of JWill’s pick in the infamous ‘gone in 54 seconds’ game against Maryland. Absolutely great play in clutch time.

[ipatent]

Bill Walton must have been tripping on something during the UNC game.

[Tripping William]

So of course State goes and loses to Northern Iowa.

[PackMan97]

So of course State goes and loses to Northern Iowa.

Didn't look like the same team. A step slow all game long.

[Olympic Fan]

So of course State goes and loses to Northern Iowa.

I was bitterly disappointed by their performance. After playing tough and smart and strong against Arizona, they played like Sidney Lowe was coaching them today. State was clearly the better team and seemed to be on the verge of breaking it open several times. But they let Northern Iowa hang around and when things got tight, I thought State got selfish -- especially Al Freeman -- and that cost them.

Very nice job by Virginia this afternoon against Vanderbilt in Brooklyn.

[TheOldBattleship]

Very nice job by Virginia this afternoon against Vanderbilt in Brooklyn.

That was really a beatdown. I didn't watch much of it (honestly, what was the point), but man, UVA just swatted Vandy. The margin was what, 26? It was definitely not nearly that close through most of the game. I think UVA was up by more than 40 when they called the dogs off a bit with around 8 minutes left. The fact that this team is not ranked/ranked 25 is completely insane. They'll win a bunch of games as always with scheme and defensive effort, but Guy can really fill it up, and if Huff and Jerome can get a play with a bit more consistency, they could be even tougher.

[jhmoss1812]

That was really a beatdown. I didn't watch much of it (honestly, what was the point), but man, UVA just swatted Vandy. The margin was what, 26? It was definitely not nearly that close through most of the game. I think UVA was up by more than 40 when they called the dogs off a bit with around 8 minutes left. The fact that this team is not ranked/ranked 25 is completely insane. They'll win a bunch of games as always with scheme and defensive effort, but Guy can really fill it up, and if Huff and Jerome can get a play with a bit more consistency, they could be even tougher.

It really was a beatdown. We scored more points in the first half (43) than Vandy scored all game (42). Vandy also finished the game on a 17-4 run and still lost by 26. Should get a nice test tomorrow night against Rhode Island who beat Seton Hall tonight.

[chris13]

Watched UNC vs the Portland Riverboat Pilots and have only one observation:
Bill Walton is a national treasure.

[Tripping William]

Watched UNC vs the Portland Riverboat Pilots and have only one observation:
Bill Walton is a national treasure.

Like a rainbow over Multnomah Falls.

[ipatent]

That was really a beatdown. I didn't watch much of it (honestly, what was the point), but man, UVA just swatted Vandy. The margin was what, 26? It was definitely not nearly that close through most of the game. I think UVA was up by more than 40 when they called the dogs off a bit with around 8 minutes left. The fact that this team is not ranked/ranked 25 is completely insane. They'll win a bunch of games as always with scheme and defensive effort, but Guy can really fill it up, and if Huff and Jerome can get a play with a bit more consistency, they could be even tougher.

Never sell a Bennett team short.

[chris13]

Like a rainbow over Multnomah Falls.

Exactly. Wait, are you the red haired giant who flowed through the conference of champions like the Williamette River flows through Portland? Because Tripping William would be an appropriate moniker for Mr. Walton.

[devildeac]

Like a rainbow over Multnomah Falls.

Just booked flights to Portland, OR for July, 2018 for a medical meeting and a 40th wedding anniversary trip. Yes, we will drive by Multnomah Falls and hike a bit on our way to/from the meeting.

[-jk]

Just booked flights to Portland, OR for July, 2018 for a medical meeting and a 40th wedding anniversary trip. Yes, we will drive by Multnomah Falls and hike a bit on our way to/from the meeting.

One of my (many) cousins lives in Portland. Go see the Rose Test Garden (https://www.portlandoregon.gov/parks/finder/index.cfm?action=ViewPark&PropertyID=1113). We had a good time this summer when her brother got married; it's a one of a kind...

-jk

[devildeac]

One of my (many) cousins lives in Portland. Go see the Rose Test Garden (https://www.portlandoregon.gov/parks/finder/index.cfm?action=ViewPark&PropertyID=1113). We had a good time this summer when her brother got married; it's a one of a kind...

-jk

We went to Portland annually from about 1988 to 2000 to visit family but never heard of that site. We'll put a visit there on our list. Thanks!

[Wahoo2000]

That was really a beatdown. I didn't watch much of it (honestly, what was the point), but man, UVA just swatted Vandy. The margin was what, 26? It was definitely not nearly that close through most of the game. I think UVA was up by more than 40 when they called the dogs off a bit with around 8 minutes left. The fact that this team is not ranked/ranked 25 is completely insane. They'll win a bunch of games as always with scheme and defensive effort, but Guy can really fill it up, and if Huff and Jerome can get a play with a bit more consistency, they could be even tougher.

I said after the preseason polls and the ACC preseason picks that they were setting up Bennett for a great run at another ACC CoY award, which should probably be renamed ACC Coach Most Overacheiving to Preseason Expectations.

[Tripping William]

Exactly. Wait, are you the red haired giant who flowed through the conference of champions like the Williamette River flows through Portland? Because Tripping William would be an appropriate moniker for Mr. Walton.

Totally possible. But my bike & Inwill never tell. Especially when it’s so rainy .....

[PackMan97]

State plays Tennessee in the third place game. A great chance to pick up a good win against a P5 team.

I'm not surprised Arizona and Purdue are matched up today, I am a bit surprised it is in the last place game.

[Olympic Fan]

State plays Tennessee in the third place game. A great chance to pick up a good win against a P5 team.

I'm not surprised Arizona and Purdue are matched up today, I am a bit surprised it is in the last place game.

Does Arizona's loss to SMU devalue the State win a bit?

And, I know it's early, but the two losses in the Bahamas could really hurt the Wildcats on Selection Sunday. They Pac 12 is struggling at the moment -- looking like the weakest of the P6 conferences -- and without good non-conference wins on its resume, it might be hard for Arizona to earn a No. 1 seed.

Now, that's not the end of the world and we have a long time before the selections are made, but still, it's something to think about.

[PackMan97]

Does Arizona's loss to SMU devalue the State win a bit?

it doesn't and it does.

It doesn't in the sense it was a great win for State and the program. Just as with all the wins Carolina achieved with players who didn't go to class, you can't take away what they won, especially when they won it.

At the same time, if 'Zona continues to struggle the win will be diminished much like the State FB wins over Lousiville and FSU this season...or any of Carolina's wins over the past 30 years.

Even if Arizona disappoints, they'll still be very very good. So, it might not be a top 5 or 10 win for the Pack, it should definitely be a top 50 or top 25 win.

[JasonEvans]

Even if Arizona disappoints, they'll still be very very good. So, it might not be a top 5 or 10 win for the Pack, it should definitely be a top 50 or top 25 win.

It is really, really hard to imagine Arizona being worse than a top 25 team. This will be a very solid win for State all season long. Even if Arizona went out and also lost to SMU, this is a good win and I think it is safe to assume Arizona will end up with 20+ wins, probably 25+ wins.

The loss to N Iowa isn't a bad loss either. They gave Villanova a very competitive game today and seem likely to be a top 100 team this season. No great shame in that.

-Jason "a win over Tennessee would be a big boost for the Pack too... they are down 11-6 early in what has been an ugly game so far" Evans

[TheOldBattleship]

It is really, really hard to imagine Arizona being worse than a top 25 team.

I think that it's hard to overstate how big getting Rawle Alkins back will be for them (anyone know when is that supposed to be, by the way?). You slide him into that starting lineup and, man, they suddenly become REALLY hard to guard. He doesn't solve the distraction issues they may or may not have with all the FBI stuff, of course, but he solves a lot of the basketball-related issues that we've seen on display this tournament (lack of scoring balance, lack of shooting, lack of off-the-bounce creativity, inability to keep wings out of the paint on defense). He's another driver who can distribute, a second matchup nightmare on the wing with his size and strength, a pretty decent floor spacer, and a really rugged defender.

I'm pretty comfortable assuming that Zona is going to end up as a top-ten team if he comes back at full strength, which would be great news for State (though it's always hard to tell how the committee weighs injuries/wins against teams with injuries generally).

[JasonEvans]

I think that it's hard to overstate how big getting Rawle Alkins back will be for them (anyone know when is that supposed to be, by the way?).

When he went down at the end of September, they said 8-12 weeks (which would put his return at some time in December). He injured his foot, so it could take him some time to get back in game shape as well. I would bet he is back to himself by Christmas or New Year.

And let's not go too crazy on how good Alkins is. He's a very nice player and an important piece for Zona, but we are talking about a guy who averaged just 10ppg last season and none of his other stats jump out as being truly special. He's not someone projected as a solid first round draft pick either (though I could certainly see him going late first or early second if he has a strong year). Again, he's good and certainly useful, but I don't think it is fair to steeply discount State and SMU's victories because Alkins was out.

-Jason "speaking of State, they are losing by 7 at halftime to Tennessee" Evans

[davekay1971]

Early on the Arkansas Razorbacks are making life even tougher than an upper level UNC AFAM independent study course on our worthy competitors from that esteemed institution of higher education in Chapel Hill.

Hope that continues...

[hallcity]

Early on the Arkansas Razorbacks are making life even tougher than an upper level UNC AFAM independent study course on our worthy competitors from that esteemed institution of higher education in Chapel Hill.

Hope that continues...

I'm just glad the Hole fans have to listen to Bill "Conference of Champions" Walton. I may have to change channels.

[TheOldBattleship]

When he went down at the end of September, they said 8-12 weeks (which would put his return at some time in December). He injured his foot, so it could take him some time to get back in game shape as well. I would bet he is back to himself by Christmas or New Year.

And let's not go too crazy on how good Alkins is. He's a very nice player and an important piece for Zona, but we are talking about a guy who averaged just 10ppg last season and none of his other stats jump out as being truly special. He's not someone projected as a solid first round draft pick either (though I could certainly see him going late first or early second if he has a strong year). Again, he's good and certainly useful, but I don't think it is fair to steeply discount State and SMU's victories because Alkins was out.

-Jason "speaking of State, they are losing by 7 at halftime to Tennessee" Evans

I think that the big thing for Arizona with Alkins is mainly how he slots in and makes their rotations make a ton more sense. The third guard/second wing spot beside Jackson-Cartwright and Trier is just a train-wreck right now. The State game is a good example: the Smith/Randolph/Akot/Barcello combo combined for a grand total of 2 points on 1-10 shooting (0-6 from 3). Seems like they were equally ineffective against SMU. Miller can't even figure out which of that crew to give minutes to at this point. Alkins gives them a clear minute-eater who is going to give you solid play, at the very least. State was able to completely ignore whoever was in that third guard slot the other day, particularly towards the end of the game when all four guys had demonstrated that they weren't capable of doing much. Even though he's certainly not a world-beater on the level of Trier, you won't be able to do that with Alkins.

That said, I definitely agree that this was a really good win for State, regardless. I had thought that Arizona was going to eat State alive with their size, and that definitely didn't happen. The State bigs really stood their ground, especially when physically overmatched against the Ayton/Ristic combo. Al Freeman's ability to orchestrate the offense through the pick and roll was particularly impressive, as well. I'm looking forward to being frustrated with Braxton Beverly (and to feel an instinctive urge to describe him as "pesky") for the next four years, as well.

[arnie]

I'm just glad the Hole fans have to listen to Bill "Conference of Champions" Walton. I may have to change channels.

I can answer Walton’s question: Luke Maye’s done enough to get his jersey hung from the Dean Dome roof or ceiling.

[devildeac]

Early on the Arkansas Razorbacks are making life even tougher than an upper level UNC AFAM independent study course on our worthy competitors from that esteemed institution of higher education in Chapel Hill.

Hope that continues...

Not watching/following but guessing the refs bail out the cheaters vs Arkansas like they did in the u-ncaa tournament last year. :mad:

[JasonEvans]

I can answer Walton’s question: Luke Maye’s done enough to get his jersey hung from the Dean Dome roof or ceiling.

We can laugh and all, but right now it is Luke Maye’s world... we are all just livin’ in it.

Jason “wow, is he ever playing well against Ark” Evans

[rickshawboycall911]

Ok how the hell does Unc get their role players to improve year over yeaR like this? Kenny williams,Isiah Hicks, Luke Maye are just a fews example.

Our role players seem to just meander and even get worse et al Tyler Thornton,Matt Jones,Amile Jefferson.

[dukelifer]

We can laugh and all, but right now it is Luke Maye’s world... we are all just livin’ in it.

Jason “wow, is he ever playing well against Ark” Evans

He is going to be All ACC. The kid can play

[dukelifer]

Ok how the hell does Unc get their role players to improve year over yeaR like this? Kenny williams,Isiah Hicks, Luke Maye are just a fews example.

Our role players seem to just meander and even get worse et al Tyler Thornton,Matt Jones,Amile Jefferson.

???? I am pretty sure everyone got better. Also Allen was technically a role player his first year.

[Bob Green]

The kid can play

Giving credit where credit is due, Luke Maye played a great game with a career high 28 points to go along with 16 rebounds and five assists.

[davekay1971]

???? I am pretty sure everyone got better. Also Allen was technically a role player his first year.

Pretty sure rickshawboy is a troll. Or criminally ignorant. The longstanding knock on UNC (probably unfair) has been that their players don't improve year after year under Roy. Meanwhile, the Duke program is widely recognized as developing talent throughout K's long career. Anyone who cites Jefferson as an example of a Duke player not improving under K is killing their own credibility instantly and effectively.

[chris13]

Giving credit where credit is due, Luke Maye played a great game with a career high 28 points to go along with 16 rebounds and five assists.

He is the second coming of Matt Harpring.

[jv001]

Ok how the hell does Unc get their role players to improve year over yeaR like this? Kenny williams,Isiah Hicks, Luke Maye are just a fews example.

Our role players seem to just meander and even get worse et al Tyler Thornton,Matt Jones,Amile Jefferson.

Mark Few's example? :cool: GoDuke!

[PackMan97]

Ok how the hell does Unc get their role players to improve year over yeaR like this? Kenny williams,Isiah Hicks, Luke Maye are just a fews example.

I'm pretty sure we all know why Carolina players get better...their secret is not having to attend class or do any sort of academic work and focus on sports instead.

[OldPhiKap]

Our role players seem to just meander and even get worse et al Tyler Thornton,Matt Jones,Amile Jefferson.

All three of those players improved over the course of their career, not sure what you mean. And I can add three Plumlees, a Zoubek, and even a DeLaurier if we are comparing last year to this.

[sagegrouse]

Ok how the hell does Unc get their role players to improve year over yeaR like this? Kenny williams,Isiah Hicks, Luke Maye are just a fews example.

Our role players seem to just meander and even get worse et al Tyler Thornton,Matt Jones,Amile Jefferson.

"Our role players?" You would at least be honest, Mr. Troll, if you said, "Your role players."

All three of your examples improved immensely. Not to mention Melchionni, all three Plumlees, and on and on and on.

[PackMan97]

"Our role players?" You would at least be honest, Mr. Troll, if you said, "Your role players."

All three of your examples improved immensely. Not to mention Melchionni, all three Plumlees, and on and on and on.

Wasn't Isiah hicks a burger boy? It seems to me the narrative ought to be why does Roy recruit so much talent and then it takes 2-3 years before we see results on the court?

I also love the Luke Maye was a walk-on crap. No one lies better than Carolina.

[Olympic Fan]

Wasn't Isiah hicks a burger boy? It seems to me the narrative ought to be why does Roy recruit so much talent and then it takes 2-3 years before we see results on the court?

I also love the Luke Maye was a walk-on crap. No one lies better than Carolina.

Hicks was the No. 14 ranked player in his prep class -- two spots ahead of Joel Embid. Last season, he was the highest rated player remaining from his prep class that was still in college basketball.

BTW: This year, that honor belongs to Theo Pinson -- who was ranked ahead of DeAngelo Russell coming out of high school.

It's not that Roy develops talent as much as he lands top-rated prospects then holds them back for a couple of years, only allowing them to emerge as junior and seniors. Hicks and Pinson are just two examples. Justin Jackson, James McAdoo and Joel Berry are all examples of guys who stayed long past the time when most of their contemporaries had gone pro.

As for Luke Maye ... he is an example of a moderately rated recruit who has improved his game. Maye was never a walk-on -- he was a borderline top 100 recruit (which would be a big deal almost anywhere else, except one of the bluebloods).

[dukelifer]

Pretty sure rickshawboy is a troll. Or criminally ignorant. The longstanding knock on UNC (probably unfair) has been that their players don't improve year after year under Roy. Meanwhile, the Duke program is widely recognized as developing talent throughout K's long career. Anyone who cites Jefferson as an example of a Duke player not improving under K is killing their own credibility instantly and effectively.

Yes- I agree now. Gave him the benefit of the doubt but his Chat banter has made it clear he does root for the home team.

[construe]

He is the second coming of Matt Harpring.

I was thinking more of Austin Croshere!

Either way, like those guys, he's playing better than it looks like he should, and if he's lucky, he'll translate it into an NBA contract and be set for life (even we never hear from him again a la Croshere after he blew up for Indiana in that one Finals series...)

[BandAlum83]

Ok how the hell does Unc get their role players to improve year over yeaR like this? Kenny williams,Isiah Hicks, Luke Maye are just a fews example.

Our role players seem to just meander and even get worse et al Tyler Thornton,Matt Jones,Amile Jefferson.

Wow, you're just trolling and throwing out chum all over these boards this morning. Did you have a particularly bad Thanksgiving this year? Did Drunk Uncle make a fool of you or something?

Still won't flame you, but in all likelihood I will on the next one.

[ChillinDuke]

The games tonight should be fantastic. I can't wait. The PK80 certainly delivered.

On the CBS Sports preview, they say Luke Maye is the early leader for NPOY. Which made me smile. The kid is looking great this year, but he'd have to be one of the most surprising NPOY in history if it happened.

- Chillin

[BD80]

Wow, you're just trolling and throwing out chum all over these boards this morning. Did you have a particularly bad Thanksgiving this year? Did Drunk Uncle make a fool of you or something?

Still won't flame you, but in all likelihood I will on the next one.

redacted

[MChambers]

Let’s go, Sparty!

[ChillinDuke]

Will we get Walton as well? If so, I may have to stay up for our game.

- Chillin

[OldPhiKap]

Will we get Walton as well? If so, I may have to stay up for our game.

- Chillin

Do not think so, he has the other arena.

[ChillinDuke]

Do not think so, he has the other arena.

I think they're both in Moda tonight.

- Chillin

[OldPhiKap]

I think they're both in Moda tonight.

- Chillin

Thanks. I though they were doing a championship and a consolation game in both brackets.

[ChillinDuke]

This has certainly been enjoyable to watch thus far. MSU has been playing excellent ball - outstanding on defense.

Is there an announcing thread this year? Bill Walton is top notch television in and of himself.

- Chillin

[BigZ]

Just wait for Bill Walton to go after Lavar

[left_hook_lacey]

"UNC, 19-11 regular season." --lefthooklacey circa a couple weeks ago.

[JasonEvans]

So, how is the national player of the year doing thus far against a real front line? 0-5 thus far.

--Jason "use the force, Luke... wait. I think JJJ and Nick Ward have a bit more force than you do" Evans

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

23 points in the half.

[left_hook_lacey]

So, how is the national player of the year doing thus far against a real front line? 0-5 thus far.

--Jason "use the force, Luke... wait. I think JJJ and Nick Ward have a bit more force than you do" Evans
"I think the wheels fall off when they get a real team in front of them." -- Lefthooklacey a few days ago

[timmy c]

So, how is the national player of the year doing thus far against a real front line? 0-5 thus far.

--Jason "use the force, Luke... wait. I think JJJ and Nick Ward have a bit more force than you do" Evans

Maye has struggled with the size and physical play of MSU. The game looks too fast for him right now. Hoping that MSU can keep up the staunch defensive effort in the 2nd half.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Cheats continuously stepping in under jumper shooters. Gonna hurt someone badly.

[UrinalCake]

There's a chance Maye will wind up with more points and rebounds against MSU than Bagley had; albeit a small one :D

[davekay1971]

Theo Pinson with a fantastic audition for World Cup Futbol...

[toughbuff1]

Theo Pinson with a fantastic audition for World Cup Futbol...

Wow and they gave Jackson a flagrant 1 for that? Pinson must have gotten lessons from Luis Figo.

[DukieInKansas]

Theo Pinson with a fantastic audition for World Cup Futbol...

Yep - pretty good flop.
Also, please tell me we don't get Walton for our game.

[davekay1971]

Refs doing their best the last few minutes to give the cheaters life. Hopefully the sucking of the cheaters will be to great to overcome.

[ChillinDuke]

If UNC pulls this off, down 14 with 6 to play, to make Izzo 0-10 vs Roy at UNC, I don't even know what Tom will do. He'll never hear the end of it.

- Chillin

[toughbuff1]

Luke Maye not be having his best game.

[ChrisP]

MSU not impressive in the time I've been watching (since about 10:00 in the game). I have seen nothing but boneheaded, careless bball. They couldn't even score when Pinson flopped and stayed down! It was essentially 5 on 4 and the Spartans still couldn't put it in the hoop. REALLY hoping they don't screw around and let the cheaters back in this!

[toughbuff1]

Joel Berry (bad) II

[Skydog]

If UNC does win this game the turning point will be Pinson's cheating flop and subsequent acting job. So appropriate.

[ChillinDuke]

MSU played excellent defense in the first half. Not so much in the second half.

They stayed at home on both Berry and Maye, and they basically dared UNC's bigs to beat MSU's bigs 1-on-1 down low. Which they absolutely could not do at any point.

MSU had solid ball movement in the first half, but they got sloppy in the second.

UNC finished 1-18 from three. And successfully achieved the worst FG% in program history. 25%.

Think about that last sentence.

- Chillin

[wavedukefan70s]

23 or more turnovers by msu.wow

[yancem]

Yep - pretty good flop.
Also, please tell me we don't get Walton for our game.

Please, please, please, PLEASE NOOOO!!! Walton has been incredibly painful. I know it is tough to create filler during blowouts but my god he has complete diarrhea of the mouth!!!

[yancem]

23 or more turnovers by msu.wow

And still won by 18! WOW.

[Skydog]

What an embarrassment. MSU has great defense but 25% fg for the game??! Sad, sad.

[JasonEvans]

May this be the first of many ignominious defeats this season. They cannot suffer enough...

[UrinalCake]

MSU not impressive in the time I've been watching (since about 10:00 in the game).

They were mostly playing stall ball at that point. Defense was really great throughout the whole game, held the CHeats to 25% shooting. Makes our win over them even more impressive :)

[Ggallagher]

Please, please, please, PLEASE NOOOO!!! Walton has been incredibly painful. I know it is tough to create filler during blowouts but my god he has complete diarrhea of the mouth!!!

As much as I enjoyed seeing the Heels go down, I have never heard such a horrible commentator. Walton set a new low for unending, pointless blabbering.

[Ggallagher]

Theo Pinson with a fantastic audition for World Cup Futbol...

Yeah I think when you can just about do a three-count between when the elbow passes near the MSU player's head and Pinson's flop begins, the only penalty that should be assessed is for bad acting.

[BullBlue]

As much as I enjoyed seeing the Heels go down, I have never heard such a horrible commentator. Walton set a new low for unending, pointless blabbering.

^It would almost be funny if it wasn't so irritating. No, it's just irritating. The commenting, not the cheats loosing, the loosing was great.

[Owen Meany]

If UNC does win this game the turning point will be Pinson's cheating flop and subsequent acting job. So appropriate.

Sometimes I think players exaggerate or even jerk back without contact because they are anticipating a shot. What was great about this play was that Pinson stayed on the ground, pretending to be hurt, during game play, for an extensive time until play was stopped. I wonder how those who have so much to say about Allen reacting to contact felt about what Pinson did with no contact at all ? Surely they will have much to say.

I realize the refs are looking at a small monitor and likely missed the space between the MSU players elbow and the ball - but they should have noticed that Pinson's head didn't move at all until the MSU player's elbow was well clear of him. Then he jerked back and hit the floor.

[Skydog]

Sometimes I think players exaggerate or even jerk back without contact because they are anticipating a shot. What was great about this play was that Pinson stayed on the ground, pretending to be hurt, during game play, for an extensive time until play was stopped. I wonder how those who have so much to say about Allen reacting to contact felt about what Pinson did with no contact at all ? Surely they will have much to say.

I realize the refs are looking at a small monitor and likely missed the space between the MSU players elbow and the ball - but they should have noticed that Pinson's head didn't move at all until the MSU player's elbow was well clear of him. Then he jerked back and hit the floor.

The delay made the flop sooooo obvious. Not sure how Walton and the refs wouldn't notice that right away.

On 2nd thought maybe the refs noticed the embellishment but thought there might have been a slight touch and then embellishment. Hence the flagrant 1 rather than 2?

[aimo]

I, too, hope that Walton is not doing our game, but I fear he will be. Although, he totally called out Pinson on his Academy Award submission.
edit: Well, it's Bilas. Not much better.

[PackMan97]

I spent 5 months in Lansing, MI. Michigan St rocks! I'm glad to see them thump the cheaters.

[DukieInBrasil]

MSU really put the screws to UNCheaters, 5% from 3? Whoah!!!

[PackMan97]

I have a question....

There is this new thing that any time an athlete suffers an injury to the head they are supposed to go through this "concussion protocol" to make sure it's safe to return. So, Pinson got elbowed in the head and then didn't move at all for a while....did Coach Williams put him into the concussion protocol or send him back out onto the court? I know the Cheaters don't care about their athletes, but this seems like a new kind of low for them...completely ignoring a serious head injury!

[devildeac]

Cheats continuously stepping in under jumper shooters. Gonna hurt someone badly.

dean taught them that, right after he invented basketball. :rolleyes:

[juise]

I told you all I would try to heckle/shame the cheats about their transgressions to drive a forfeit for an earlier Duke tip. All I was able to do was heckle/shame them into the lowest FG percent in school history. I'm sorry I let you down.

[OldPhiKap]

To be fair, the Bastards probably would have won if Nate Britt was still available.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Wow. Take a look at UNC's shot chart. It's nuts. They literally made one outside shot the entire game, which was Berry's heave at the end of the first half. How is that even possible?

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=401001005

And their "inside game" was seriously exposed. Looked like MSU big men just stood there and blocked UNC's big men as they attempted to make a "move."

I feel so bad for them... just a shame what those terrible ncaa people did to them.

[BD80]

This segment regarding unc should be retitled This Weak in the ACC