MOTM: Duke vs. Michigan State (Nov 14, 2017)

[JBDuke]

Who was Man of the Match in Duke's 88-81 win over Michigan State?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Grayson!

[OldPhiKap]

Leader and scorer. Easy.

[vfefrenzy]

There’s a lot of guys on this team to love, but anyone who doesn’t vote Grayson should have their voting privileges revoked.

[curtis325]

Will it be unanimous?

[devildeac]

Over/under on first vote for Duval...

[flyingdutchdevil]

Over/under on first vote for Duval...

i was so close. I was soooooo close.

But Grayson was unworldly

[CameronCrazy'11]

Grayson looks like he is playing to put his jersey in the rafters.

[JBDuke]

Trevon had a heck of a game - 17 points, 10 assists, 6 steals, 3 rebounds, and a block - against only 3 turnovers versus the #2 team in the country and in just his third game as a collegian. But Grayson was better.

[FerryFor50]

Duval definitely has a case; without his PG play, Grayson might not have had so many points. But, Allen did hit a lot of ridiculous shots without needing Duval.

I'd give an honorable mention to Wendell Carter, too. Finished strong.

[DukieInBrasil]

I voted for Grayson, b/c somebody has to make shots to win the game, and he made all the shots to get us over the hump. Duval though, he had an amazing game, and if he could make just a couple of jumpers this game he would have gotten my vote b/c he had such an impact on the game on defense with 6 steals and incredible pressure on their guards, great, no, amazing passing. His second 2x double via pts and assists, which we haven't seen around these parts in a long long time. Duval is so good around the rim, almost as good as Grayson is from 3.
Also, let's give lots of praise to Javin, who is also having a huge impact on the game even though he is almost an afterthought on offense.

[Ultrarunner]

Beautiful game by Grayson. Honorable mention to Trevon and Wendell.

[CameronCrazy'11]

Trevon had a heck of a game - 17 points, 10 assists, 6 steals, 3 rebounds, and a block - against only 3 turnovers versus the #2 team in the country and in just his third game as a collegian. But Grayson was better.

Any other game and Trevon is the clear man of the match. 10 assists, for the 2nd game in a row, is just incredible. Grayson is just playing like a legend right now.

[Wander]

Sorry, I'm spoiling it. Having a big guy like Carter is the difference between winning a national championship and past years where we're more upset-prone, plus it was especially important tonight with the Bagley injury.

[weezie]

Sorry, I'm spoiling it. Having a big guy like Carter is the difference between winning a national championship and past years where we're more upset-prone, plus it was especially important tonight with the Bagley injury.

Hardly Wander. Carter came a long way tonight. Plenty of adversity and he took it strong. He did very well.

Captain Allen in the house!

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Sorry, I'm spoiling it. Having a big guy like Carter is the difference between winning a national championship and past years where we're more upset-prone, plus it was especially important tonight with the Bagley injury.
Yes, Carter is going to be an incredible player for us, as will Bagley, but to vote for him in this game is misguided.

[JNort]

Grayson and it's not close.


Wow I am not understanding the Duval love for this game. His shooting was awful and the 7-20 doesn't even demonstrate how bad it was. He missed layup after layup and had what could have been a crucial mental mistake late in the game if it wasn't for Grayson playing like a man.

Now that is overly harsh probably but I did like his tenacity and play making once again. He also continues to impress me on defense. Kid is special

[pfrduke]

Sorry, I'm spoiling it. Having a big guy like Carter is the difference between winning a national championship and past years where we're more upset-prone, plus it was especially important tonight with the Bagley injury.

Down the stretch almost every set we ran started with an entry to Carter on the left elbow. Grayson was hitting the shots (all of the shots) but whenever we set up in the half court, we played through our freshman center.

[elvis14]

Grayson by a large margin. Followed by Duval, Carter and Javin.

Boo hisss to Wander for his errant vote.

[OldPhiKap]

Down the stretch almost every set we ran started with an entry to Carter on the left elbow. Grayson was hitting the shots (all of the shots) but whenever we set up in the half court, we played through our freshman center.

Absolutely agree. What a balanced team, and Carter is a big part of it.

Still doesn’t change the POTM though.

[Wander]

Yes, Carter is going to be an incredible player for us, as will Bagley, but to vote for him in this game is misguided.

So you say, but there's no "guide" to voting. It doesn't have to be for the best performance - that's why we vote for guys who make buzzer beating winning shots even if they didn't have the best overall game.

My personal criteria for early games is something like this: the win/loss result of any particular non-conference game is basically meaningless, so my vote goes toward whatever individual performance I saw that I think is most important for the season's success. Grayson Allen was obviously great, but against Michigan State, our new center getting 12 and 12 is a little more telling than our star shooting guard getting 37 and 3 in terms of how our season is going to go, especially considering the Bagley injury.

[elvis14]

So you say, but there's no "guide" to voting. It doesn't have to be for the best performance - that's why we vote for guys who make buzzer beating winning shots even if they didn't have the best overall game.

My personal criteria for early games is something like this: the win/loss result of any particular non-conference game is basically meaningless, so my vote goes toward whatever individual performance I saw that I think is most important for the season's success. Grayson Allen was obviously great, but against Michigan State, our new center getting 12 and 12 is a little more telling than our star shooting guard getting 37 and 3 in terms of how our season is going to go, especially considering the Bagley injury.

79-1 so far. You should write a letter to Grayson and apologize.

[DukieInBrasil]

So you say, but there's no "guide" to voting. It doesn't have to be for the best performance - that's why we vote for guys who make buzzer beating winning shots even if they didn't have the best overall game.

My personal criteria for early games is something like this: the win/loss result of any particular non-conference game is basically meaningless, so my vote goes toward whatever individual performance I saw that I think is most important for the season's success. Grayson Allen was obviously great, but against Michigan State, our new center getting 12 and 12 is a little more telling than our star shooting guard getting 37 and 3 in terms of how our season is going to go, especially considering the Bagley injury.

if that is your criteria, then i don't understand how you could go with Carter over Duval, who had 10 assists and scored 17, in addition to 6 steals. So defensively and distribution wise, Duval did things that hold more potent indicators of how well this team can do this year.
Carter was completely overwhelmed at the beginning of the game, but it took him over 2/3 of the game settle down and be productive. I have no doubt that he learned a lot and will grow as a player, but the same can be said of Duval.

[Newton_14]

Grayson easily. The buzzer beater at halftime, the dagger from the top of the key to take it to a two possession game with under-2 to go, and 5 others in between.

Honorable Mention: Duval (18/10/6), Carter (12/12) and Javin (Defensive Pest)

Also, shout out to K for using 11 guys....

[AGDukesky]

Carter was downright bad in the first half. His second half was good but not nearly enough to eclipse Allen or Duval. However he was Big Man of the Match...

[pfrduke]

One other note on Carter. K clearly wants to get him established early. The first play of each half tonight was a post entry to Carter on the left block. I’m pretty sure that was also the first play of the UVU game.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Some voters are ding dongs.

[NYBri]

Glad to see DBR forum in mid-season form with a pie fight on the MOTM thread.

Grayson. Any other choice is complete and total insanity.

[OldPhiKap]

I’m just amazed that we have ten choices in a game of this level.

Play zone all but one possession, use the whole bench — I think K has been abducted and an imposter has been inserted in his place.


(How did Vrank get a vote? He played five minutes, picked up two fouls, one board and three points — ?!? Carter, I disagree but understand. I guess unanimity will never happen on this board)

[DisplacedBlueDevil]

Grayson looks like he is playing to put his jersey in the rafters.

My thought exactly but does he have a legitimate shot (with his legitimate shot) at making this a reality?

[kAzE]

My thought exactly but does he have a legitimate shot (with his legitimate shot) at making this a reality?

He's well on his way. If he makes first team All-American, I think it's done. Barring an injury, he'll finish as a top 5 scorer in Duke history with at least 1 championship ring, a Duke diploma, and multiple national accolades. That should be more than enough to get his number retired.

[superdave]

I voted Duvall because of the six steals and all the assists. He was playing the game at a different speed last night.

I may be a bit of a contrarian too....

[duke4ever19]

I voted Duvall because of the six steals and all the assists. He was playing the game at a different speed last night.

I may be a bit of a contrarian too...


That's okay. Someone "out-contrianed" you by voting for Antonio Vrankovic.

7803

[slower]

He's well on his way. If he makes first team All-American, I think it's done. Barring an injury, he'll finish as a top 5 scorer in Duke history with at least 1 championship ring, a Duke diploma, and multiple national accolades. That should be more than enough to get his number retired.
And because of his style of play, he's already a legend, whether he makes the rafters or not.

If it's close, do we think K decides to retire his jersey, perhaps knowing that he may be the last of the great 4-year players?

[Bluedog]

He's well on his way. If he makes first team All-American, I think it's done. Barring an injury, he'll finish as a top 5 scorer in Duke history with at least 1 championship ring, a Duke diploma, and multiple national accolades. That should be more than enough to get his number retired.

Ask Kyle Singler about that....Admittedly, I don't think Singler was ever first team All-American, so that may be what holds him back, he didn't have a single truly "phenomonal" season, just four really really good ones. But I wouldn't say first team All-American would make Grayson a lock. NPOY would.

[CDu]

Will it be unanimous?

Unless we play a game with only one player, there will likely never be a unanimous MOTM honor at DBR.

[NSDukeFan]

97.3% is closer to unanimous than anyone going into the baseball hall of fame, isn’t it?

[vick]

Ask Kyle Singler about that...Admittedly, I don't think Singler was ever first team All-American, so that may be what holds him back, he didn't have a single truly "phenomonal" season, just four really really good ones. But I wouldn't say first team All-American would make Grayson a lock. NPOY would.

Not only was Singler not a first-team all-American, he wasn't even third team for the AP, although he did get one second-team award from the NABC. I'm not sure why his name always comes up in these discussions as he was not close.

More broadly though, I think some people are overly pessimistic about the odds of a jersey being retired going forward. Just eyeballing, I would say lots of players in the one-and-done era meet the "Duke standard":


Absolute locks (NPOY and multiple all-American years): Tyler Hansbrough, Doug McDermott
Highly probables (NPOYs or NDPOY+multiple all-American years): Jimmer Fredette, Frank Kaminsky, Buddy Hield, Malcolm Brogdon, Frank Mason
Better-than-even odds (multiple all-American years or NPOY, but only three years): Stephen Curry (if he got his degree), Evan Turner (ditto)
Potential (non-consensus NPOY award): Draymond Green, Denzel Valentine


It's possible we're done recruiting that type of player, but I see no obvious reason to think so.

[BoiseDevil]

I’m just amazed that we have ten choices in a game of this level.

Play zone all but one possession, use the whole bench — I think K has been abducted and an imposter has been inserted in his place.


(How did Vrank get a vote? He played five minutes, picked up two fouls, one board and three points — ?!? Carter, I disagree but understand. I guess unanimity will never happen on this board)

Vrank’s Mom is on the boards!

[Newton_14]

I voted Duvall because of the six steals and all the assists. He was playing the game at a different speed last night.

I may be a bit of a contrarian too...

First, I was certain the poll was NOT going to be unanimous (which is fine really). Carter was big down the stretch, Duval the stat stuffer had a huge impact on the game, and Grayson was other worldly ala the famous #4 that hangs in Cameron. One of the great shooting performances all time for a Duke player.

I thought too it was a strong team performance, meaning everyone made a contribution while in there and none of our kids laid a stinker performance. The only negative in that regard was Trent's bad night shooting but he may have hit the most important shot of the entire game when he hit the 3 to break the 75-75 tie with under 4 to go. That was a huge shot. Big.

On another note I opined last night that Izzo looked like a broken/defeated man going through the handshake line and man I watched the presser tonight and Good Lord the man was pure dejected. You would have thought they had just lost the National Championship... I was really surprised at the level of dejection. Like what happens if we play them and beat them in the FF or NC game? Izzo might need to be committed if that happens...

[CameronBornAndBred]

97.3% is closer to unanimous than anyone going into the baseball hall of fame, isn’t it?

Anyone that didn't make it unanimous was wrong. There will come a day that I don't make that statement, but after last night's game, and a career night for the only guy left conceivably in my lifetime (and I'm relatively young) that has a shot of being in the rafters of Cameron, and he got still got denied, I don't see a snowball's chance of there ever being a unanimous.
37 points, the most ever of his Duke lifetime. Lifted the team on his back when "the best" was on the bench scratching his eye. Playing the #2 team in the country, and he digs deep and does wonders.
And after that unforgettable performance....Wendell Carter and Vrank are the ones that made it happen. (Minor shoutout to Trevon, since Grayson gave him the same in the post game interview....but Trevon wasn't the one being interviewed.)

Four of you are wrong, 159 of you are right.