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DukieInBrasil
11-12-2017, 06:59 PM
Use this thread to talk about non-Duke, and probably non-ACC, basketball for the season.

I just wanted to point out that Kentucky almost lost, at home, to Vermont 73-69. This is essentially the same team that almost beat Duke a few years ago. Many of the players are different, but there is a similar level of experience, cohesiveness, and understanding of its own strengths and weaknesses. This isn't to say Kentucky is overrated or that they'll be bad this year, although they are perhaps either or both. The Duke team that strugled with Vermont was also a pretty good team, won lots of games, had a pretty high ranking at various times thru that year, and ended up losing in the 1st Round of the NCAAT. That team didn't lose in the tourney b/c they were bad, but b/c of their youth they couldn't match the intensity and cohesive team nature that Mercer had. More than anything, i think it just shows that Kentucky's youth could snake-bite them this year.
I found Duke's blow-out wins satisfying, and while Duke is also similarly young this year, i didn't see much that made me think that this year's Duke squad's youth is lacking intensity or team cohesion.

As for the opening weekend: the only upset i saw was #25 TAMU over #11 WVa, which is a pretty mild upset at this point.
Congrats to Chris Collins and Nortwestern for winning their ranked-season debut at #19 (ESPN).

Kedsy
11-12-2017, 07:15 PM
Use this thread to talk about non-Duke, and probably non-ACC, basketball for the season.

I just wanted to point out that Kentucky almost lost, at home, to Vermont 73-69. This is essentially the same team that almost beat Duke a few years ago. Many of the players are different, but there is a similar level of experience, cohesiveness, and understanding of its own strengths and weaknesses. This isn't to say Kentucky is overrated or that they'll be bad this year, although they are perhaps either or both. The Duke team that strugled with Vermont was also a pretty good team, won lots of games, had a pretty high ranking at various times thru that year, and ended up losing in the 1st Round of the NCAAT. That team didn't lose in the tourney b/c they were bad, but b/c of their youth they couldn't match the intensity and cohesive team nature that Mercer had. More than anything, i think it just shows that Kentucky's youth could snake-bite them this year.
I found Duke's blow-out wins satisfying, and while Duke is also similarly young this year, i didn't see much that made me think that this year's Duke squad's youth is lacking intensity or team cohesion.

As for the opening weekend: the only upset i saw was #25 TAMU over #11 WVa, which is a pretty mild upset at this point.
Congrats to Chris Collins and Nortwestern for winning their ranked-season debut at #19 (ESPN).

So, this is a thread about NOT-DUKE basketball in which we basically talk more about Duke than whatever the post purports to be about? Cool. :p

DukieInBrasil
11-12-2017, 07:17 PM
So, this is a thread about NOT-DUKE basketball in which we basically talk more about Duke than whatever the post purports to be about? Cool. :p

I think we're free to weave Duke into any thread no matter the purported topic, but yeah, i mostly just wanted to take a jab at Kentucky and praise Duke.

Also interesting, at least on Friday night's games, there were very few non-blowout wins for the ranked teams. A lot of this is to be expected b/c "cupcakes". Northwestern and UCLA, in addition to Kentucky, were really the only non-blowout winners on Friday. My blowout margin was set at 15, which might not be the most stringent limit.

FadedTackyShirt
11-12-2017, 07:32 PM
Derryck Thornton looked pretty good for USC. He’s the sixth man playing behind Jordan McLaughlin. USC’s a solid team.

BD80
11-12-2017, 07:39 PM
Derryck Thornton looked pretty good for USC. He’s the sixth man playing behind Jordan McLaughlin. USC’s a solid team.

And he left Duke, and sat out a year, so he could have a BIGGER role? Good move.

NSDukeFan
11-12-2017, 09:49 PM
And he left Duke, and sat out a year, so he could have a BIGGER role? Good move.

I was thinking the same. I hope he’s being used correctly in pick and rolls.

OldPhiKap
11-12-2017, 09:51 PM
I wish Derryck well. Wish he had stayed, but everyone has to do what they think is best. Good luck.

UrinalCake
11-12-2017, 10:09 PM
I just wanted to point out that Kentucky almost lost, at home, to Vermont 73-69. This is essentially the same team that almost beat Duke a few years ago.

I remember that near-loss, I believe Andre Dawkins hit a late three to stave them off. To me that game was more about our terrible defense than anything else. Our perimeter would get shredded and Vermont constantly hit back-door cuts for layups and dunks.


As for the opening weekend: the only upset i saw was #25 TAMU over #11 WVa, which is a pretty mild upset at this point.

I understand TAMU was playing without two of their starters, and they won by 23 at WVU, so I think that qualifies as a bona-fide upset. Missouri also played without Michael Porter Jr. (who was held out with a minor injury) and beat ISU, so there's that. I'm sure the other players were happy to prove they are not just a one-man team.

ElSid
11-12-2017, 11:24 PM
Something I never thought I'd say: I'm excited to follow some Alabama basketball.

Collin Sexton is a OAD talent at point guard. 6'3" like Duvall, better shooter, similar athleticism. Extremely charismatic on and off the floor. They're tall. Donta Hall and transfer Daniel Giddens will block a lot of shots. Braxton Key is a good sophomore wing. I like them in an SEC that won't be dominated quite as handily by Kentucky. Dark horse to win SEC. Florida, Texas A&M and Kentucky will all be good. Florida sorta worth rooting for because Mike White is a good young coach with Duke ties.

Oklahoma is a dark horse in the Big12. We recruited Trae Young for a while. Local kid. Good returning talent that is better than last year's 11 wins suggests.

Really want to believe Iowa can be a dark horse in the Big10 but they'll have to overcome inconsistency, which has been a bugaboo of the Fran McCaffrey era from the start. Tyler Cook is a good big man, though, and Bohannon is a scrappy guard I like. Deep team that could run at people. I've seen them picked as low as 9th and I think that's too pessimistic.

Love me some college basketball!

ChillinDuke
11-13-2017, 11:01 AM
Something interesting that I just checked out about Kentucky and their early season schedule. UK doesn't play a true road game, from what I can tell, until @LSU in early January.

UK struggled in both of its first two games: Utah Valley and Vermont. KenPom has those two teams at #162 and #70, respectively. Now it's only been two games, and we all know the KP data doesn't get totally relevant for a month or two. But if early season KenPom rankings aren't utterly absurd and you can at least glean some sort of directional strength from team-to-team (perhaps big ifs), then UK has an interesting few weeks ahead.

Starting on 12/16, UK has a three-pack of games against VA Tech, UCLA, and Loovul before they get into SEC play. Those will all be tough, obviously.

But between now and that three-pack, UK faces #4 Kansas, #119 East Tenn St, #149 Troy, #166 Fort Wayne, #157 Illinois-Chicago, #110 Harvard, and #159 Monmouth. Kansas aside for obvious reasons, none of those games are particular pushovers, especially in light of their struggles with Utah Valley and Vermont.

UK's scheduling strategy appears similar to what Duke had been doing for a while, scheduling mediocre teams to beat up on instead of bottom feeders in the high-200s or 300s. Presumably this helps pad your statistical rankings/RPI/etc. That said, seeing teams that are top-half-ish of D1 makes me think UK could drop a game early against a relative unknown (unknown at least to casual fans/media).

Anywho, just something that interested me to keep in mind during the non-con season.

- Chillin

Bay Area Duke Fan
11-13-2017, 11:07 AM
Arizona looks great. Ayton and Trier rival Bagley and Allen as a top duo.

English
11-13-2017, 01:48 PM
Something I never thought I'd say: I'm excited to follow some Alabama basketball.

Collin Sexton is a OAD talent at point guard. 6'3" like Duvall, better shooter, similar athleticism. Extremely charismatic on and off the floor. They're tall. Donta Hall and transfer Daniel Giddens will block a lot of shots. Braxton Key is a good sophomore wing. I like them in an SEC that won't be dominated quite as handily by Kentucky. Dark horse to win SEC. Florida, Texas A&M and Kentucky will all be good. Florida sorta worth rooting for because Mike White is a good young coach with Duke ties.

Oklahoma is a dark horse in the Big12. We recruited Trae Young for a while. Local kid. Good returning talent that is better than last year's 11 wins suggests.

Really want to believe Iowa can be a dark horse in the Big10 but they'll have to overcome inconsistency, which has been a bugaboo of the Fran McCaffrey era from the start. Tyler Cook is a good big man, though, and Bohannon is a scrappy guard I like. Deep team that could run at people. I've seen them picked as low as 9th and I think that's too pessimistic.

Love me some college basketball!

Collin Sexton's eligibility is in question, and he's out indefinitely until Avery Johnson gets a better grasp from the NCAA whether he'll be cleared. That's a major blow for Bama.

ElSid
11-13-2017, 02:54 PM
Collin Sexton's eligibility is in question, and he's out indefinitely until Avery Johnson gets a better grasp from the NCAA whether he'll be cleared. That's a major blow for Bama.

I thought that got cleared up and he only had a 1 game suspension: https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/alabama-freshman-collin-sexton-to-serve-one-game-suspension-debut-on-tuesday/

ElSid
11-13-2017, 03:00 PM
Arizona looks great. Ayton and Trier rival Bagley and Allen as a top duo.

Agree. I think if Rawle Alkins were healthy and there weren't a (light) cloud over the program with the FBI, they'd be a better choice for #1 than Duke. I've read quotes from GMs in the NBA would would take Ayton over Bagley. Level of talent in the front court across the NCAA is incredible this year.

English
11-13-2017, 03:40 PM
I thought that got cleared up and he only had a 1 game suspension: https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/alabama-freshman-collin-sexton-to-serve-one-game-suspension-debut-on-tuesday/

Ah, I had not seen this--that's good news for college basketball fans, although perhaps not other SEC basketball fans. Sexton is an explosive player.

UrinalCake
11-13-2017, 03:53 PM
I've read quotes from GMs in the NBA would would take Ayton over Bagley. Level of talent in the front court across the NCAA is incredible this year.

What I've read is that Ayton is a bit bigger than Bagley and has similar skill, but doesn't play hard all the time. Whereas Bagley as we've seen has a great motor. Both will be excellent pros, as will Michael Porter Jr. It kind of reminds me of 2015 when Okafor, Kaminski and Towns were all in that class. Okafor was the presumed #1 for most of the season, but Towns came on strong in the postseason and has obviously had by far the best pro career of the three.

ElSid
11-13-2017, 05:55 PM
What I've read is that Ayton is a bit bigger than Bagley and has similar skill, but doesn't play hard all the time. Whereas Bagley as we've seen has a great motor. Both will be excellent pros, as will Michael Porter Jr. It kind of reminds me of 2015 when Okafor, Kaminski and Towns were all in that class. Okafor was the presumed #1 for most of the season, but Towns came on strong in the postseason and has obviously had by far the best pro career of the three.

Bagley's definitely got "the look" in his eye, whereas Ayton always looks somewhat surprised or confused. I don't put a ton of stock in facial expression, but sometimes guys just look more aggressive. I always said Brandon Ingram "looked" like a UNC player for that reason. Maybe remembering sleepy eyed Sam Perkins.

I'd take Bagley, but I'm extremely biased. Luka Doncic could very well go first, though. That top 4 or 5 is insane.

Towns has indeed had a good pro career, but for all the talk about how bad Jah is on D, and he's terrible so far, Towns is also one of the least efficient defensive players in the league. I'm sure he can get better, as can Jah, but you don't hear much about KAT's futility on that end.

Free Jah.

ipatent
11-13-2017, 08:06 PM
Watching Virginia v. Austin Peay. The Huff kid looks like he's going to be good. They're supposed to be down this year I wouldn't bet against Bennett getting this team into the top 25.

Tripping William
11-13-2017, 08:31 PM
I just wanted to point out that Kentucky almost lost, at home, to Vermont 73-69. ....

As for the opening weekend: the only upset i saw was #25 TAMU over #11 WVa, which is a pretty mild upset at this point.


This reminds me: Where’s Ultrarunner and the Not Gonna Jinx It thread, 2018 edition??

BD80
11-13-2017, 08:50 PM
Watching Virginia v. Austin Peay. The Huff kid looks like he's going to be good. They're supposed to be down this year I wouldn't bet against Bennett getting this team into the top 25.

Bennett could coach a team of tarheels that actually attend real classes and get them into the top 25.

MChambers
11-13-2017, 08:59 PM
Bennett could coach a team of tarheels that actually attend real classes and get them into the top 25.

Where would they find real classes?

Wahoo2000
11-13-2017, 09:27 PM
Watching Virginia v. Austin Peay. The Huff kid looks like he's going to be good. They're supposed to be down this year I wouldn't bet against Bennett getting this team into the top 25.

Huff is probably still a year away. He's extremely skilled, and has a great motor, but still will be pushed around by any team with half-decent bigs (read: NOT Austin Peay). Give him some spot minutes for experience, and put another 10-15ish lbs on in the offseason and he'll be ready for a featured role. Actually the other redshirt frosh we have, DeAndre Hunter, I expect bigger contributions from this season.

I still think we'll be a top 15ish team this year honestly.... maybe better.

Ultrarunner
11-13-2017, 09:57 PM
This reminds me: Where’s Ultrarunner and the Not Gonna Jinx It thread, 2018 edition??

Patience. Let’s get the rustiness out of the system first.

devildeac
11-13-2017, 11:28 PM
Where would they find real classes?

Several miles north on 15-501? ;)

YmoBeThere
11-13-2017, 11:43 PM
Sigh, Belmont. Sigh.

El_Diablo
11-14-2017, 01:15 AM
Pitt followed up its loss to Navy with a home loss to Montana. It’s gonna be a long season for the Panthers.

jv001
11-14-2017, 09:21 AM
Where would they find real classes?

Home school? :cool: certainly not in Chapel Hell. GoDuke!

DukieInBrasil
11-14-2017, 01:31 PM
Still no major upsets to report, as all higher ranked teams won last night, including N'western...

JasonEvans
11-14-2017, 03:38 PM
Pitt followed up its loss to Navy with a home loss to Montana. It’s gonna be a long season for the Panthers.

BC is thrilled that someone else may take the crown as most embarrassing team in the ACC for a little while.

flyingdutchdevil
11-14-2017, 09:57 PM
Anyone else pulling hard for KU tonight?

devildeac
11-14-2017, 10:51 PM
Anyone else pulling hard for KU tonight?

ABUK.

Troublemaker
11-15-2017, 12:17 AM
With KU beating UK, the all-time Champions Classic standings look like:

Duke 4-3,
UK 4-3,
KU 3-4,
MSU 3-4

Duke and Kentucky will play for first place next season.

OldPhiKap
11-15-2017, 06:50 AM
BC is thrilled that someone else may take the crown as most embarrassing team in the ACC for a little while.

Wake just asked Pitt to hold its beer.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-15-2017, 06:54 AM
With KU beating UK, the all-time Champions Classic standings look like:

Duke 4-3,
UK 4-3,
KU 3-4,
MSU 3-4

Duke and Kentucky will play for first place next season.

Those are some pretty well-matched programs. Impressive.

Troublemaker
11-18-2017, 08:37 AM
I agree with the G-man. This UK team is underwhelming. Kansas was playing short handed and UK has not looked convincing in any of its wins against mid-majors. Oh and if you are worried about Duke’s FT shooting, at least we didn’t go 3-15 like UK did last night. Basically UK has played every game at the level we played last night...

Agreed that Kentucky has been underwhelming so far. That said, they still probably have in terms of raw talent the 5th best roster in the country or so.

I have to think Calipari will have them playing much better by the end of the season, and I would NOT look forward to seeing them as a 4 seed in Atlanta (South Regional) for example if Duke is the 1 seed there.

Faustus
11-18-2017, 08:48 AM
Wow. Wake... Wow. And they have to be in Lynchburg, VA too...

Faustus
11-18-2017, 09:03 AM
P.S.
For those looking for entertaining reading about Wake's bball meltdown, their unofficial sports site is
www.ogboards.com/forum with the sports bulletin board there, but prepare for some pretty exceptional Duke hatred year round.

For even fiercer Duke hatred, practically psychotic in fact, the best UVa bulletin board, with shockingly bad format for reading it, is
www.virginia.sportswar.com

I think those links will work here.

Hmmm... Wake link doesn't seem to work even for me from that link posted above, but just Google 'Old Gold and Black'

dukefan_828
11-18-2017, 11:34 PM
After a horrid 0-3 start to bad teams i decided to check out one of the deacons fan forum (link below) boy they are really calling for Danny Manning's head and have revitalized a 160+ page thread which started his first year solely devoted to questioning his coaching ability or lack there of according to most of their posters. I have found it interesting to read if nothing else so figured i would share, thoughts?

https://www.ogboards.com/forums/showthread.php/23725-Danny-Manning-Credibility-Watch/page161

Sorry didn't read before posting someone else already shared, feel free to delete if necessary.

duke4ever19
11-18-2017, 11:58 PM
P.S.
For those looking for entertaining reading about Wake's bball meltdown, their unofficial sports site is
www.ogboards.com/forum with the sports bulletin board there, but prepare for some pretty exceptional Duke hatred year round.

For even fiercer Duke hatred, practically psychotic in fact, the best UVa bulletin board, with shockingly bad format for reading it, is
www.virginia.sportswar.com

I think those links will work here.

Hmmm... Wake link doesn't seem to work even for me from that link posted above, but just Google 'Old Gold and Black'

That is easily the worst fan message board I've ever seen. It's an aesthetic nightmare.

The funny thing is that it looks like it gets a lot of traffic.

jhmoss1812
11-19-2017, 10:33 AM
That is easily the worst fan message board I've ever seen. It's an aesthetic nightmare.

The funny thing is that it looks like it gets a lot of traffic.

It gets a ton of traffic but I hate the format and I hate the Duke and VT bashing. Sometimes it feels more like a Duke/VT bashing board than a UVA board.

We do have some very knowledgeable and insightful posters there. It's just difficult to find them sandwiched between all the crap.

sagegrouse
11-19-2017, 12:22 PM
It gets a ton of traffic but I hate the format and I hate the Duke and VT bashing. Sometimes it feels more like a Duke/VT bashing board than a UVA board.

We do have some very knowledgeable and insightful posters there. It's just difficult to find them sandwiched between all the crap.

Is this what DBR has become with all the Carolina bashing, even or especially on threads that have nothing to do with UNC. Unless a contest is in the offing,I have little interest in UNC or in reading about the Heels on a Duke board. OK, UNC is a rival, but it is not an obsession, at least with me.

Troublemaker
11-19-2017, 05:05 PM
DBR also used to have that hierarchical threaded look before the switch to VBulletin software a number of years ago.

Ultrarunner
11-19-2017, 05:50 PM
Glad to see that Duke is not the only team struggling with cupcakes. MSU not blowing the doors off of Stony Brook.

Would like Chris Collins to wake his team up and remind them the season has started.

ipatent
11-19-2017, 06:10 PM
Would like Chris Collins to wake his team up and remind them the season has started.

Texas Tech looks pretty good.

Ultrarunner
11-19-2017, 06:14 PM
Texas Tech looks pretty good.

Northwestern is looking really sloppy with the ball.

mattman91
11-19-2017, 06:16 PM
Northwestern is looking really sloppy with the ball.

15 turnovers in the first half. Ouch.

elvis14
11-19-2017, 06:36 PM
DBR also used to have that hierarchical threaded look before the switch to VBulletin software a number of years ago.

I remember that. If I remember right, vBulletin is the 3rd system I've read as DBR (the first of which was pretty bad). You can read/see threads in a hierarchical way if you choose (I prefer the linear).

ipatent
11-19-2017, 07:09 PM
15 turnovers in the first half. Ouch.

They're physically overmatched in this game. Texas Tech has length, and they're hitting shots as well.

dukefan_828
11-19-2017, 07:18 PM
OUCH... on the way to a 40pt loss will collins lead this team to another tournament? i say yes and they should just have a very tough couple of practices and forget all about this one!

Also Wake goes to 1-4 on the season old gold and black forum going nuts i'm getting my popcorn ready :rolleyes:

tbyers11
11-19-2017, 07:52 PM
Glad to see that Duke is not the only team struggling with cupcakes. MSU not blowing the doors off of Stony Brook.

Would like Chris Collins to wake his team up and remind them the season has started.

Top 10 team and potential PK80 final opponent Florida is struggling mightily against New Hampshire right now. Up 62-58 with 4:21 left.

Were 24 pt favorites according to KenPom

UrinalCake
11-19-2017, 07:54 PM
I didn’t watch the Kansas-UK game, but the ESPN recap makes it sound like UK was terrible. Final score indicates it was a close game. So are both teams just bad, or is the final score misleading?

Ultrarunner
11-19-2017, 08:09 PM
I didn’t watch the Kansas-UK game, but the ESPN recap makes it sound like UK was terrible. Final score indicates it was a close game. So are both teams just bad, or is the final score misleading?

UK can't shoot a lick right now. Kansas needs Graham to step up and stabilize the guard play. Kansas had some players not eligible (freshman with a car accident, no injury) which made a difference, imnsho

DukieInBrasil
11-20-2017, 01:37 AM
USC beat Vandy in OT. Wow did D Thornton have a terrible game, 0-3 FGs no points, no assists and 1 reb in just 13 minutes off the bench. He played much better at Duke, and i feel bad for him that he got and followed such terrible advice. Whoever thought he was OAD level player and was therefore not being used correctly at Duke was seriously mistaken.

InSpades
11-20-2017, 02:04 AM
USC beat Vandy in OT. Wow did D Thornton have a terrible game, 0-3 FGs no points, no assists and 1 reb in just 13 minutes off the bench. He played much better at Duke, and i feel bad for him that he got and followed such terrible advice. Whoever thought he was OAD level player and was therefore not being used correctly at Duke was seriously mistaken.

7821

I keep seeing this score when I scroll through the top 25 scores on ESPN and every time I think... how did they lose by 52 in overtime? Then I figure it out and the next time I go to the page I repeat the entire thought process again.

YmoBeThere
11-20-2017, 07:42 AM
USC beat Vandy in OT. Wow did D Thornton have a terrible game, 0-3 FGs no points, no assists and 1 reb in just 13 minutes off the bench. He played much better at Duke, and i feel bad for him that he got and followed such terrible advice. Whoever thought he was OAD level player and was therefore not being used correctly at Duke was seriously mistaken.

An evaluation(that he was a OAD) made by a person who has likely evaluated 1 person yjeu considered OAD.
On another note, a decent effort but the Dores still losy. :(

Troublemaker
11-20-2017, 09:42 AM
I didn’t watch the Kansas-UK game, but the ESPN recap makes it sound like UK was terrible. Final score indicates it was a close game. So are both teams just bad, or is the final score misleading?

Both teams were bad in THAT game. Bill Self actually began his postgame presser almost sheepishly apologizing for the KU-UK game not living up to the quality of the first game (Duke-MSU).

That said, I wouldn't draw from it that those two teams are bad, period. Kansas stands to gain some interior depth at some point as a couple of bigs become eligible, and that is their big weakness right now. And Kentucky should continue to get better and better with all their talent and youth.

ChillinDuke
11-20-2017, 10:56 AM
Don't look now but Texas A&M found a spot in KP's Top-10. That brings the SEC to 3 Top-10 teams (Florida at #10) and 4 in the Top 25 (Alabama at #25).

Regardless of the early season nature of KP rankings, the SEC looks to have some strength at the top this year, especially if UK (#5) isn't quite as far ahead as usual.

- Chillin

Nrrrrvous
11-20-2017, 11:18 AM
7821

I keep seeing this score when I scroll through the top 25 scores on ESPN and every time I think... how did they lose by 52 in overtime? Then I figure it out and the next time I go to the page I repeat the entire thought process again.

I'm still confused...:confused:

DukieInBrasil
11-20-2017, 11:52 AM
An evaluation(that he was a OAD) made by a person who has likely evaluated 1 person yjeu considered OAD.
On another note, a decent effort but the Dores still losy. :(

nice word invention :p
Let's try it in a different setting: I want to see UNC be such a losy team this year, no wins for Cheats!!!

Owen Meany
11-20-2017, 12:05 PM
Both teams were bad in THAT game. Bill Self actually began his postgame presser almost sheepishly apologizing for the KU-UK game not living up to the quality of the first game (Duke-MSU).

That said, I wouldn't draw from it that those two teams are bad, period. Kansas stands to gain some interior depth at some point as a couple of bigs become eligible, and that is their big weakness right now. And Kentucky should continue to get better and better with all their talent and youth.

Has there been any clarification on Billy Preston's status? Kid was in a mild accident on campus and held out of the Kansas game (and now their game on Friday). Self commented it was due to the accident, but added something about needing to understand the "financial picture" of the car involved. This kind of flew under the radar and I haven't heard anything and a quick google search yielded no updated info.

English
11-20-2017, 12:29 PM
Has there been any clarification on Billy Preston's status? Kid was in a mild accident on campus and held out of the Kansas game (and now their game on Friday). Self commented it was due to the accident, but added something about needing to understand the "financial picture" of the car involved. This kind of flew under the radar and I haven't heard anything and a quick google search yielded no updated info.

Yeah, this was really an odd phrase, and I immediately thought "impermissible benefits" when I saw that the administration wants a clearer picture of the financials involving the car Preston was in...I could be misreading the situation, but I've yet to see any clarification from anyone on any side of this.

Doria
11-20-2017, 01:24 PM
Yeah, this was really an odd phrase, and I immediately thought "impermissible benefits" when I saw that the administration wants a clearer picture of the financials involving the car Preston was in...I could be misreading the situation, but I've yet to see any clarification from anyone on any side of this.

Yeah, they said it was a "compliance issue" that they're investigating, but no other details. Some reporters noted a scuffed-up car with FL plates in the student lot, but no confirmation on if it's the car in question or, if so, what the situation is. They said it's expected to be resolved shortly.

brevity
11-20-2017, 03:22 PM
Has there been any clarification on Billy Preston's status? Kid was in a mild accident on campus and held out of the Kansas game (and now their game on Friday). Self commented it was due to the accident, but added something about needing to understand the "financial picture" of the car involved. This kind of flew under the radar and I haven't heard anything and a quick google search yielded no updated info.


Yeah, this was really an odd phrase, and I immediately thought "impermissible benefits" when I saw that the administration wants a clearer picture of the financials involving the car Preston was in...I could be misreading the situation, but I've yet to see any clarification from anyone on any side of this.


Yeah, they said it was a "compliance issue" that they're investigating, but no other details. Some reporters noted a scuffed-up car with FL plates in the student lot, but no confirmation on if it's the car in question or, if so, what the situation is. They said it's expected to be resolved shortly.

LAWRENCE, KS -- The NCAA compliance office at the University of Kansas cleared freshman basketball player Billy Preston to play immediately, according to a report issued today. The school was conducting an internal investigation of Preston in connection to an automobile he drove that was involved in an accident. He has yet to play for Coach Bill Self and Kansas this season.

The report provides, "The University of Kansas has reviewed the incident involving Billy Preston and determined that there was no wrongdoing. We found nothing unusual about the collision that took place on campus. In addition, we found nothing unusual about the automobile involved in the collision."

"Nothing from nothing leaves nothing," the report concluded. "For the NCAA to start an investigation, you have got to have something."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HqyEHqEYho

curtis325
11-20-2017, 03:44 PM
LAWRENCE, KS -- The NCAA compliance office at the University of Kansas cleared freshman basketball player Billy Preston to play immediately, according to a report issued today. The school was conducting an internal investigation of Preston in connection to an automobile he drove that was involved in an accident. He has yet to play for Coach Bill Self and Kansas this season.

The report provides, "The University of Kansas has reviewed the incident involving Billy Preston and determined that there was no wrongdoing. We found nothing unusual about the collision that took place on campus. In addition, we found nothing unusual about the automobile involved in the collision."

"Nothing from nothing leaves nothing," the report concluded. "For the NCAA to start an investigation, you have got to have something."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HqyEHqEYho

Will the NCAA go round in circles?

rasputin
11-20-2017, 03:55 PM
Will the NCAA go round in circles?

Will it fly high?

BandAlum83
11-20-2017, 04:14 PM
Will it fly high?

Not since Larry has the NCAA seen a Bird up in the sky...

YmoBeThere
11-22-2017, 10:33 PM
Vandy putting a nice class together.

DukieInBrasil
11-22-2017, 11:56 PM
This season had been relatively upset free, minus some 19 and 22 losses to unranked Creighton. Until tonight!!!! Wow, did the Pack show their stuff, upsetting #2 Zona!!! Beverly, of ex-NCAA limbo, and Freeman (ex Baylor) really played big with solid balanced production around them.
#18 Purdue lost to UTenn, but that's a pretty mild upset.
Derryck Thornton continues to not impress at USC, scoring 2pt on 2-2 FTs with 4 asts and 2 rebs. Not bad for a back up. I feel for the kid.

Olympic Fan
11-23-2017, 12:57 AM
Did anybody else see the strange ending of the Tennessee-Purdue upset?

Tennessee hits two free throws with 2.0 seconds left to go up three points.

Purdue tries a Grant-Hill-to-Laettner type pass ... it's intercepted, but the Tennessee player starts celebrating, running up the court without dribbling.

On the replay, the ref raises his hand with 0.8 seconds left and when the buzzer sounds, the refs go to the monitor. The TV guys are certain that Purdue will get the ball out sidecourt with 0.8 or 0.7 seconds left. Instead, the refs decide the game is over and run off the floor.

Okay, I know you can't assess a violation based on the monitor. But if the ref wasn't calling travelling, why did he raise his arm? And if he didn't call traveling, what was the video review all about ... nothing else was in question?

Strange sequence (although Purdue would still have to get it in and hit a 3 with 0.8 seconds left).

rsvman
11-23-2017, 09:07 AM
There's nothing against the rules in running up the court; unless, of course, you do it while holding the ball in your arms. I'm assuming that's what happened? If so, that really is a strange ending.

devildeac
11-23-2017, 09:29 AM
Did anybody else see the strange ending of the Tennessee-Purdue upset?

Tennessee hits two free throws with 2.0 seconds left to go up three points.

Purdue tries a Grant-Hill-to-Laettner type pass ... it's intercepted, but the Tennessee player starts celebrating, running up the court without dribbling.

On the replay, the ref raises his hand with 0.8 seconds left and when the buzzer sounds, the refs go to the monitor. The TV guys are certain that Purdue will get the ball out sidecourt with 0.8 or 0.7 seconds left. Instead, the refs decide the game is over and run off the floor.

Okay, I know you can't assess a violation based on the monitor. But if the ref wasn't calling travelling, why did he raise his arm? And if he didn't call traveling, what was the video review all about ... nothing else was in question?

Strange sequence (although Purdue would still have to get it in and hit a 3 with 0.8 seconds left).

Must have been an acc crew. :rolleyes::mad:

hallcity
11-23-2017, 10:32 AM
You have to see this. Mike Brey was kind of happy (https://twitter.com/jepopeiv/status/933709058841956358) after his team won the Maui Invitational last night.

budwom
11-23-2017, 11:43 AM
no mention of the Wolfpack beating #2 Arizona last night?

duke4ever19
11-23-2017, 11:50 AM
no mention of the Wolfpack beating #2 Arizona last night?

You'll find those comments in the "This Week in the ACC" thread and a couple references in the "I'm not going to jinx it" thread.

JasonEvans
11-23-2017, 12:00 PM
I changed the title of this thread to indicate it is about non-ACC stuff, not just non-Duke stuff.

BD80
11-23-2017, 12:10 PM
I changed the title of this thread to indicate it is about non-ACC stuff, not just non-Duke stuff.

So if we're excited about UA losing, we post here.

But if it's amazement at NCSt winning it is in the ACC thread?

subzero02
11-23-2017, 12:18 PM
Did anybody else see the strange ending of the Tennessee-Purdue upset?

Tennessee hits two free throws with 2.0 seconds left to go up three points.

Purdue tries a Grant-Hill-to-Laettner type pass ... it's intercepted, but the Tennessee player starts celebrating, running up the court without dribbling.

On the replay, the ref raises his hand with 0.8 seconds left and when the buzzer sounds, the refs go to the monitor. The TV guys are certain that Purdue will get the ball out sidecourt with 0.8 or 0.7 seconds left. Instead, the refs decide the game is over and run off the floor.

Okay, I know you can't assess a violation based on the monitor. But if the ref wasn't calling travelling, why did he raise his arm? And if he didn't call traveling, what was the video review all about ... nothing else was in question?

Strange sequence (although Purdue would still have to get it in and hit a 3 with 0.8 seconds left).

A team lost its conference championship game and also an NCAA bid some years ago due to a similar sequence of events. The team with the 1 possession lead intercepted the ball and traveled due to celebrating. The trailing team scored on the following play and secured the championship. The player who celebrated prematurely had a Darius Washington-esque reaction... pretty hard to watch.

JasonEvans
11-23-2017, 03:15 PM
So if we're excited about UA losing, we post here.

But if it's amazement at NCSt winning it is in the ACC thread?

You just loooove to be difficult, don't you?

;)

OldPhiKap
11-23-2017, 03:25 PM
So if we're excited about UA losing, we post here.

But if it's amazement at NCSt winning it is in the ACC thread?

Right. But during the game itself, the proper place to post would be the “don’t jinx” thread.

And since State was mistakenly shown as a 15 point favorite on TV, the ESPN typo thread would have also been appropriate if your comment was summarily snarky.

Eventually, all threads merge to a single continuum on DBR —the “Ymmm, beer” thread.

Tripping William
11-23-2017, 03:36 PM
Right. But during the game itself, the proper place to post would be the “don’t jinx” thread.

And since State was mistakenly shown as a 15 point favorite on TV, the ESPN typo thread would have also been appropriate if your comment was summarily snarky.

Eventually, all threads merge to a single continuum on DBR —the “Ymmm, beer” thread.

As it should be!

Dr. Rosenrosen
11-23-2017, 07:44 PM
Trying to watch TX-Butler game but I think I’d rather go watch paint dry.

Dr. Rosenrosen
11-23-2017, 08:01 PM
And Bamba terribly unimpressive in this game so far.

dukelifer
11-23-2017, 08:07 PM
And Bamba terribly unimpressive in this game so far.

Reminds me of Noel. He is nowhere as coordinated as Bagley. He is long but needs to get stronger. I see a solid NBA big man but not a star.

juise
11-23-2017, 08:17 PM
I was at the Butler-TX game, but am heading out for Thanksgiving dinner. Butler’s offense was Brutal for ~15 minutes and while Bamba only swatted one shot, you could see that many of Butler’s players were not excited about going to the rim. Offensively, it would of appear that he really can’t post up. Given that Duke is getting all its point at the rim, I think we probably want to see Butler tomorrow.

ipatent
11-23-2017, 08:32 PM
Looks like Texas is finally pulling away. Butler completely futile on offense.

devildeac
11-23-2017, 10:11 PM
Right. But during the game itself, the proper place to post would be the “don’t jinx” thread.

And since State was mistakenly shown as a 15 point favorite on TV, the ESPN typo thread would have also been appropriate if your comment was summarily snarky.

Eventually, all threads merge to a single continuum on DBR —the “Ymmm, beer” thread.

Just checking the board after an early afternoon dinner and then 5 hour drive to Charleston, WV.

Just think how many more posts Ymm, Beer would have if I stopped posting Ymm, Beer stuff in many other threads. :o:rolleyes:

duke4ever19
11-23-2017, 11:48 PM
Zona goes down yet again.

brlftz
11-24-2017, 12:56 AM
Zona goes down yet again.

Ahem (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?40643-2017-18-Pre-Season-AP-Poll-DUKE-1&p=1010271#post1010271)
I can definitely see MSU ahead of us, but I would love for someone to show me why Arizona gets touted by so many over us. Trier is a POY candidate, but so is Grayson. Ayton is a super freshman big, but so are both Bagley and Carter. As someone who doesn't follow them that closely, it looks to me like beyond those two Arizona has decent but not remarkable players. What gives? Why are Arizona fans and so many other folks online super hyped about them this year? Not saying they aren't going to be good, but they just look "basic Arizona good" to me, not "this year is going to be special" good. Am I underestimating the quality of their returning players outside of what I see as their big 3: Ayton, Trier, and Alkins?

juise
11-24-2017, 01:03 AM
Ahem (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?40643-2017-18-Pre-Season-AP-Poll-DUKE-1&p=1010271#post1010271)

It turns out that young teams can be inconsistent. Sometimes they give up 49 points to Portland State in a half. You just have to hope you have a great (the greatest) coach to even things out.

brlftz
11-24-2017, 01:13 AM
It turns out that young teams can be inconsistent. Sometimes they give up 49 points to Portland State in a half. You just have to hope you have a great (the greatest) coach to even things out.

Oh def not saying it’s smooth sailing ahead for us, it’s more about saying that I thought UA was overrated from the beginning

TruBlu
11-24-2017, 08:45 AM
My second favorite team from yesterday (Portland) didn't fare too well.

Today, I think Arkansas will be my second favorite team. Hope they do better!

(Is this in keeping with the new rules against worthless posts with no new information about that "school" that got away with cheating? And since my post is primarily about non-ACC schools, is it on the correct thread? So confusing!)


I did not post this. But if I did, I was drunk".-- TruBlu

Olympic Fan
11-24-2017, 12:13 PM
Florida-Gonzaga -- tonight at 11:30 p.m. -- ought to be a good one. Both teams played extremely well Thursday.

Duke, of course, gets one of them Sunday -- hoping (and expecting) that will be the winner in the championship game.

Wander
11-24-2017, 01:35 PM
Ahem (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?40643-2017-18-Pre-Season-AP-Poll-DUKE-1&p=1010271#post1010271)

You may very well be right, but note that Arizona is missing one of their best players (Rawle Alkins). We'll see if they're still taking these kinds of losses when he comes back.

Troublemaker
11-24-2017, 02:30 PM
Ahem (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?40643-2017-18-Pre-Season-AP-Poll-DUKE-1&p=1010271#post1010271)


I can definitely see MSU ahead of us, but I would love for someone to show me why Arizona gets touted by so many over us. Trier is a POY candidate, but so is Grayson. Ayton is a super freshman big, but so are both Bagley and Carter. As someone who doesn't follow them that closely, it looks to me like beyond those two Arizona has decent but not remarkable players. What gives? Why are Arizona fans and so many other folks online super hyped about them this year? Not saying they aren't going to be good, but they just look "basic Arizona good" to me, not "this year is going to be special" good. Am I underestimating the quality of their returning players outside of what I see as their big 3: Ayton, Trier, and Alkins?


You may very well be right, but note that Arizona is missing one of their best players (Rawle Alkins). We'll see if they're still taking these kinds of losses when he comes back.


Moreover, remember that one of the offseason posts around here was about how effective using preseason polls is to pick the NCAA tournament. Often, the regular season just produces a lot of statistical noise, with the "noise" for Arizona right now perhaps being that they're playing without one of their best players in Alkins and that Arizona is adjusting to fitting in Ayton alongside Ristic. I'm not sure playing two true centers together is a great idea for them, and they might eventually bench Ristic and play a defensive PF or wing at the 4 in order to help their defense.

If Arizona is still playing far below their ranking in March, you get major props. For now, you still get props, but minor not major.

juise
11-24-2017, 11:35 PM
No matter how you feel about Duke’s two first halves this week and now matter how they do against the Gators/Zags, this week will not be nearly as bad as Arizona’s (barring injury on Sunday).

duke4ever19
11-25-2017, 12:22 AM
Gonzaga has actually had some success with the zone for a few possessions here.


I'm sure the assistant coaches are there taking note.

juise
11-25-2017, 02:08 AM
I know most of you are asleep, but this Gonzaga-Florida game is spectacular. Heading to double-OT now. If you have time in the next two days, watch the replay. Duke will have a really tough (and hopefully tired) opponent on Sunday.



Edit: if the thought of Duke's D against an elite offense makes you queasy, maybe don't watch.

Olympic Fan
11-25-2017, 02:31 AM
One of the greatest college games I've ever seen -- Florida beats the Zags, 111-105 in 2 OT.

The last 15 seconds of the first overtime was insane -- four lead changes. Zaga had the chance to win it with a three-point play with 1.0 seconds left, but the guy missed the free throw. A Florida big man rebounds, but in trying to launch a 75-foot heave, he walks and Gonzaga gets the ball under the basket with 0.7 seconds left.

The Zags actually missed potential game-winners at the end of regulation and the first OT. Virginia Tech transfer Jalen Hudson dominated the second OT. He hit two 3s in the period and had a key block.

Wow!

Just looking ahead to Sunday, Florida is going to give us fits with their transition offense and their 3-point shooting.

On the other hand, Gonzaga's mobile, left-handed big man (who does that sound like?) tore them up inside ... I think he scored 39 points.

We get Michigan State vs. UNC in the other championship game.

devildeac
11-25-2017, 08:51 AM
One of the greatest college games I've ever seen -- Florida beats the Zags, 111-105 in 2 OT.

The last 15 seconds of the first overtime was insane -- four lead changes. Zaga had the chance to win it with a three-point play with 1.0 seconds left, but the guy missed the free throw. A Florida big man rebounds, but in trying to launch a 75-foot heave, he walks and Gonzaga gets the ball under the basket with 0.7 seconds left.

The Zags actually missed potential game-winners at the end of regulation and the first OT. Virginia Tech transfer Jalen Hudson dominated the second OT. He hit two 3s in the period and had a key block.

Wow!

Just looking ahead to Sunday, Florida is going to give us fits with their transition offense and their 3-point shooting.

On the other hand, Gonzaga's mobile, left-handed big man (who does that sound like?) tore them up inside ... I think he scored 39 points.

We get Michigan State vs. UNC in the other championship game.

Go Sparty.

BD80
11-25-2017, 09:00 AM
Go Sparty.

Ummm ...


GO SPARTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

devildeac
11-25-2017, 10:49 AM
Ummm ...


GO SPARTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, ok:

GO SPARTY!

And...

GTHc, GTH!

ipatent
11-25-2017, 12:10 PM
I know most of you are asleep, but this Gonzaga-Florida game is spectacular.

What time did that game end? Must have been after 2AM East Coast time.

juise
11-25-2017, 12:31 PM
What time did that game end? Must have been after 2AM East Coast time.

About 11:30 here in the city of roses/PK80, so yeah, about 2:30 Eastern.

House G
11-26-2017, 02:02 PM
Texas down by 14 at half to Gonzaga. Osetkowski with 2 points.

Billy Dat
11-26-2017, 02:20 PM
Texas down by 14 at half to Gonzaga. Osetkowski with 2 points.

Classic...I have been watching it a bit. It's hard to translate one performance to another but (A) Gonzaga is basically playing at home (B) Maybe we ripped out Texas heart and destroyed their mojo on Friday or (C) Party in Portland on Saturday night!!!!!

arnie
11-26-2017, 02:54 PM
Classic...I have been watching it a bit. It's hard to translate one performance to another but (A) Gonzaga is basically playing at home (B) Maybe we ripped out Texas heart and destroyed their mojo on Friday or (C) Party in Portland on Saturday night!!!!!

Uh, game not over yet. Texas within 4

richardjackson199
11-26-2017, 03:01 PM
Uh, game not over yet. Texas within 4

Nope, not over. Overtime again for both teams.

chrishoke
11-26-2017, 03:02 PM
OT. Great comeback.

Olympic Fan
11-26-2017, 03:07 PM
Wow, interesting exchange from Dan Dakish, who is doing college commentary for the Oregon Oklahoma game.

During a lull, the play-by-play guy asked Dakish who he liked in the two PK80 championship games. In the course of the question, he mentioned that North Carolina has been on the West Coast for a week "getting acclimated."

Dakish answered: "First of all, there's a joke in there about North Carolina and academics, but I'm not going to go there."

You just did, Dan.

His response indicates two things:

-- the advantages that accrue when you don't have to go to class

-- that while the Cheats escaped NCAA penalties, their reputation is forever tarnished.

FWIW: Dakish picked Duke (he can't believe Florida can keep shooting 3s as well as they have been) and Michigan State ("because I'm a Big Ten homer.") We all remember Dakish as the Indiana guard who shut down Michael Jordan in his final college game in the 1984 South Regional semifinals, so he's kind of a hero to all haters of the Cheats.

BD80
11-26-2017, 03:43 PM
Wow, interesting exchange from Dan Dakish, who is doing college commentary for the Oregon Oklahoma game.

... FWIW: Dakish picked ... Michigan State ("because I'm a Big Ten homer.") We all remember Dakish as the Indiana guard who shut down Michael Jordan in his final college game in the 1984 South Regional semifinals, so he's kind of a hero to all haters of the Cheats.

And his son plays for Ohio State.

Olympic Fan
11-26-2017, 06:19 PM
Great finish to Butler-Ohio State from Portland.

OSU blows a 14-point lead late. Butler ties it up and forced overtime, then wins by one on a driving layup in traffic with three seconds left.

Dev11
12-06-2017, 09:54 AM
Sharing this story about Shaka Smart's first trip back to VCU since he left for Texas. I feel like these sports divorces often result in bad blood, but it sounds like Smart left a strong impression on the people of Richmond.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2017/12/06/shaka-smart-returned-to-vcu-with-his-texas-longhorns-and-received-a-welcome-fit-for-a-king/

Here's an interesting tidbit that I didn't know about all the successful coaches who have used VCU as a stepping stone recently.


The school puts a clause in its head basketball coach’s contract mandating a home-and-home series with his new employer if he leaves. When Capel decamped for Oklahoma, he brought his Sooners back to Richmond, and lost. When Grant headed to Alabama, he suffered the same fate.

Billy Dat
12-06-2017, 12:49 PM
Watched some of Villanova vs Gonzaga yesterday. I'll cut the Zags some jet lag slack for their uninspiring performance, but Nova looks really good. Their defense is stout, and they relentlessly crash the glass on both ends. Throw in excellent guard play and All American candidates (esp. Bridges) and they are a huge threat again. Major props to Jay Wright who has a program built a thriving non-one-and-done program.

I also was toggling with Arizona and Texas A&M during our second half. Both teams are tough, Zona seems like it has another few gears if they can get everyone healthy. A&M was right with them despite being on the road. There are a lot of good teams out there this year.

gam7
12-06-2017, 12:59 PM
And his son plays for Ohio State.

His son plays for Michigan. I have heard him speak on air a couple of times about his and his son's experience when that Michigan plane ran off the runway/crashed last year. Pretty compelling stuff.

Olympic Fan
12-06-2017, 01:07 PM
The things ... I was watching Bill Walton do the Arizona-Texas Tech game last night and even though it was dramatic, competitive game, Walton was all over the place as usual.

At one point, he was talking about the nation's best big men and his partner asked him about Marvin Bagley.

Walton reminded his friend that he had talked about Bagley in the first half (I didn't see it) and summed up that Bagley was a real nice player. Then he added, "The Duke guy I really like is named Ryan or something like that."

Who could he have been talking about?

BD80
12-06-2017, 01:11 PM
His son plays for Michigan. I have heard him speak on air a couple of times about his and his son's experience when that Michigan plane ran off the runway/crashed last year. Pretty compelling stuff.

Dakich played for Michigan, transferred to Ohio State.

gam7
12-06-2017, 01:14 PM
Dakich played for Michigan, transferred to Ohio State.

I stand corrected! My apologies.

MChambers
12-06-2017, 01:17 PM
The things ... I was watching Bill Walton do the Arizona-Texas Tech game last night and even though it was dramatic, competitive game, Walton was all over the place as usual.

At one point, he was talking about the nation's best big men and his partner asked him about Marvin Bagley.

Walton reminded his friend that he had talked about Bagley in the first half (I didn't see it) and summed up that Bagley was a real nice player. Then he added, "The Duke guy I really like is named Ryan or something like that."

Who could he have been talking about?

Almost anyone, knowing Walton.

JasonEvans
12-06-2017, 01:30 PM
Then he (Bill Walton) added, "The Duke guy I really like is named Ryan or something like that."

Who could he have been talking about?

Possibilities--


1. Walton was suffering from an acid flashback and thought Ryan Kelly was still at Duke
2. Grayson sorta, kinda sounds a little like Ryan (if you stick your fingers in your ears and play AC/DC really loudly while saying it)
3. He was thinking of Bryant Crawford of Wake Forest
4. He got Duke and Villanova confused and he thinks Ryan Arcidiacono is still in school

Aside from that, I got nothing.

BD80
12-06-2017, 01:39 PM
... Walton reminded his friend that he had talked about Bagley in the first half (I didn't see it) and summed up that Bagley was a real nice player. Then he added, "The Duke guy I really like is named Ryan or something like that."

Who could he have been talking about?

Jahlil Okafor

Billy Dat
12-06-2017, 02:30 PM
Possibilities--


1. Walton was suffering from an acid flashback and thought Ryan Kelly was still at Duke
2. Grayson sorta, kinda sounds a little like Ryan (if you stick your fingers in your ears and play AC/DC really loudly while saying it)
3. He was thinking of Bryant Crawford of Wake Forest
4. He got Duke and Villanova confused and he thinks Ryan Arcidiacono is still in school

Aside from that, I got nothing.

People were KILLING him on Twitter last night, and I don't blame them. It was a tight, extremely competitive game between two big time teams (regardless of Arizona's ranking - I think many of us assume they'll be a Final Four threat) and, down the stretch, he was blabbering absolute nonsense.

Truth&Justise
12-06-2017, 03:09 PM
People were KILLING him on Twitter last night, and I don't blame them. It was a tight, extremely competitive game between two big time teams (regardless of Arizona's ranking - I think many of us assume they'll be a Final Four threat) and, down the stretch, he was blabbering absolute nonsense.

Always the same for Walton: in a blowout, or with teams I don't care about, I love listening to his rambling stories.

In a game I care about, or one that is close and competitive? I wish he would just shut up.

Billy Dat
12-06-2017, 03:28 PM
Always the same for Walton: in a blowout, or with teams I don't care about, I love listening to his rambling stories.

In a game I care about, or one that is close and competitive? I wish he would just shut up.

I generally agree with this, and he was nearly this bad when he was doing the NBA Finals back in the day. I distinctly remember him saying, "Larry Johnson is a disgrace to the human race". This was in response to LJ's habit of making that L with his two arms.

jimsumner
12-06-2017, 03:33 PM
Always the same for Walton: in a blowout, or with teams I don't care about, I love listening to his rambling stories.

In a game I care about, or one that is close and competitive? I wish he would just shut up.

I agree with one of these statements. :)

YmoBeThere
12-06-2017, 09:57 PM
Vandy is probably the worst team in the Nashville area(lost to Belmont and Middle Tennessee State).

UrinalCake
12-06-2017, 09:58 PM
Wow, Florida loses at home to an unranked team AGAIN, this time to University of Loyola-Chicago, a school most of us have never heard of. Is this where we get to claim the moral high ground over schools that live and die by the three? :) Florida was 2-19 from deep in this one after going 6-25 against FSU. When they hit seven threes in the first half against us, they sure did look like the college version of the Golden State Warriors.

cakerace
12-06-2017, 11:14 PM
“A school most of us have never heard of”? 1963 was not that long ago and it still hurts...

Utley
12-06-2017, 11:33 PM
Always the same for Walton: in a blowout, or with teams I don't care about, I love listening to his rambling stories.

In a game I care about, or one that is close and competitive? I wish he would just shut up.

I ran into Bill a few hours before the title game in Indy and he was great. He stopped to pose for a photo with me and seeing me in my Duke gear stopped to note that he really liked the team and that he was pulling for us to win.

westwall
12-07-2017, 12:13 AM
“A school most of us have never heard of”? 1963 was not that long ago and it still hurts...

Yeah, that was when most of us could only follow that NCAA championship game by listening on RADIO.

juise
12-07-2017, 12:41 AM
“A school most of us have never heard of”? 1963 was not that long ago and it still hurts...

Not to mention they're close "shave" with Kentucky in 1951. UK got to take a season off after that one.

ChillinDuke
12-07-2017, 12:24 PM
Zero posts on Florida in this thread, huh? #5 Florida? Well, they got beat pretty easily at home by 8-1, #91 Loyola-Chicago (now rated #76 after the win). I don't think Florida ever led other than the first minute of the game and maybe a brief tie in the second half. That's three losses in a row for the (previously) presumptive Final Four candidate.

Yet, despite "Loyola-Chicago" having minimal name recognition, they are not even the most surprising upset of the day.

Hello, Kansas? #2 Kansas? Undefeated Kansas?

The KenPom #2-rated team lost (basically at home; Sprint Center in KC) 74-65 yesterday night to a 6-2 Washington team that was rated #140 coming in (now #114). Washington was predicted preseason to finish 10th in the Pac-12, essentially no chance of making the NCAAT. NPOY candidate Devonte Graham played all 40 minutes yet was only able to compile 3 pts, 5 assts, and 1 board on 1-8 shooting (1-5 from deep) and 0-2 at the line. Kansas never led after halftime.

Woof.

- Chillin

El_Diablo
12-07-2017, 05:12 PM
Zero posts on Florida in this thread, huh? #5 Florida? Well, they got beat pretty easily at home by 8-1, #91 Loyola-Chicago (now rated #76 after the win). I don't think Florida ever led other than the first minute of the game and maybe a brief tie in the second half. That's three losses in a row for the (previously) presumptive Final Four candidate.

Yet, despite "Loyola-Chicago" having minimal name recognition, they are not even the most surprising upset of the day.

Umm, 4 of the last 5 posts before yours were discussing Florida and/or the obscurity/history of Loyola-Chicago.

MartyClark
12-07-2017, 06:53 PM
Zero posts on Florida in this thread, huh? #5 Florida? Well, they got beat pretty easily at home by 8-1, #91 Loyola-Chicago (now rated #76 after the win). I don't think Florida ever led other than the first minute of the game and maybe a brief tie in the second half. That's three losses in a row for the (previously) presumptive Final Four candidate.

Yet, despite "Loyola-Chicago" having minimal name recognition, they are not even the most surprising upset of the day.

Hello, Kansas? #2 Kansas? Undefeated Kansas?

The KenPom #2-rated team lost (basically at home; Sprint Center in KC) 74-65 yesterday night to a 6-2 Washington team that was rated #140 coming in (now #114). Washington was predicted preseason to finish 10th in the Pac-12, essentially no chance of making the NCAAT. NPOY candidate Devonte Graham played all 40 minutes yet was only able to compile 3 pts, 5 assts, and 1 board on 1-8 shooting (1-5 from deep) and 0-2 at the line. Kansas never led after halftime.

Woof.

- Chillin

As an aging former Chicagoan, I need to give a faint shout out to Loyola in terms of name recognition. They won the 1963 NCAA tournament beating Cincinnati in the final game. Duke, if I remember correctly, was in the Final Four.

Loyola and DePaul had brief moments of glory. Chicago college basketball has not been good for decades despite the large number of high school players who go to Division 1 schools.

Maybe Chris Collins reverses this trend. Go Northwestern!!

Olympic Fan
12-07-2017, 10:39 PM
As an aging former Chicagoan, I need to give a faint shout out to Loyola in terms of name recognition. They won the 1963 NCAA tournament beating Cincinnati in the final game. Duke, if I remember correctly, was in the Final Four.

Loyola and DePaul had brief moments of glory. Chicago college basketball has not been good for decades despite the large number of high school players who go to Division 1 schools.

Maybe Chris Collins reverses this trend. Go Northwestern!!

That was Duke's first Final Four appearance ... Duke was No. 2 in the nation with NPOY Art Heyman and All-America Jeff Mullins, hoping to meet defending champ Cincinnati (ranked No. 1) in the finals. But No. 3 Loyola spoiled that. Jerry Harkness, Les Hunter and Vic Rouse gave Duke fits. Duke fell way behind early, fought back behind Heyman (who finished with 29 points and 12 rebounds), then faltered at the end and lost by the lopsided score of 94-75.

The next night, Loyola upset Cincinnati in the title game.

Billy Dat
12-08-2017, 01:24 PM
While I watched Nova whup Gonzaga the other night, I didn't catch this monster dunk by Bridges

https://youtu.be/2QSq7nFFr7Q

Check out from where he takes off, the number of Zags he dunks on and then his run back upcourt to block a lay-up. If this was a Heisman race, he may have wrapped it up with this one sequence. He is scary as is Nova.

Selover
12-08-2017, 01:32 PM
While I watched Nova whup Gonzaga the other night, I didn't catch this monster dunk by Bridges

https://youtu.be/2QSq7nFFr7Q

Check out from where he takes off, the number of Zags he dunks on and then his run back upcourt to block a lay-up. If this was a Heisman race, he may have wrapped it up with this one sequence. He is scary as is Nova.

It has been made clear that Miles isn't, but is 'Nova's Bridges of any relation to the Golden Gate?

rsvman
12-08-2017, 01:40 PM
While I watched Nova whup Gonzaga the other night, I didn't catch this monster dunk by Bridges

https://youtu.be/2QSq7nFFr7Q

Check out from where he takes off, the number of Zags he dunks on and then his run back upcourt to block a lay-up. If this was a Heisman race, he may have wrapped it up with this one sequence. He is scary as is Nova.

A tiny bit of his foot is in the circle. Pretty impressive, but not something that nobody else in college ball can do.

El_Diablo
12-08-2017, 01:50 PM
It has been made clear that Miles isn't, but is 'Nova's Bridges of any relation to the Golden Gate?

No, I think he's from Madison County.

Billy Dat
12-08-2017, 03:09 PM
Derryck Thornton, who was playing 10-15 minutes in a second squad role for USC, dislocated his shoulder and is out for 3-4 weeks.

https://reignoftroy.com/2017/12/06/usc-basketball-derryck-thornton-shoulder-injury/

WV_Iron_Duke
12-08-2017, 03:44 PM
Remember the loss to Loyola Chicago quite well while listening to it on the radio. In 1963 only the Championship game was televised.

Bluedog
12-08-2017, 03:47 PM
Derryck Thornton, who was playing 10-15 minutes in a second squad role for USC, dislocated his shoulder and is out for 3-4 weeks.

https://reignoftroy.com/2017/12/06/usc-basketball-derryck-thornton-shoulder-injury/

Interestingly, Thornton averaged way more minutes at Duke (26) than he has at USC two years later (15).

AGDukesky
12-08-2017, 04:17 PM
Interestingly, Thornton averaged way more minutes at Duke (26) than he has at USC two years later (15).

Duke’s inability to utilize and develop guards bites us again😜

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
12-09-2017, 07:46 AM
Duke’s inability to utilize and develop guards bites us again😜

I thought that was big men? Can a mod please chime in and remind me what the Duke program weaknesses are again? Hard to keep it straight.

/s

NYBri
12-09-2017, 08:16 AM
I thought that was big men? Can a mod please chime in and remind me what the Duke program weaknesses are again? Hard to keep it straight.

/s

Let’s Start with coaching.

BullBlue
12-09-2017, 09:02 AM
Let’s Start with coaching.

I thought it was the fact we never land a decent recruiting class.

OldPhiKap
12-09-2017, 09:06 AM
I thought that was big men? Can a mod please chime in and remind me what the Duke program weaknesses are again? Hard to keep it straight.

/s


Let’s Start with coaching.

Both of these made me laugh this morning. Thanks.

JasonEvans
12-09-2017, 09:53 AM
I thought that was big men? Can a mod please chime in and remind me what the Duke program weaknesses are again? Hard to keep it straight.

Our two weaknesses are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency. Wait...

devildeac
12-09-2017, 10:12 AM
Our two weaknesses are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency. Wait...

What about the Pope?

:rolleyes:

BandAlum83
12-09-2017, 10:17 AM
What about the Pope?

:rolleyes:

Coach K is a Catholic with a perhaps fanatical devotion to said Pope. He does cross himself before every game!

curtis325
12-09-2017, 10:27 AM
Coach K is a Catholic with a perhaps fanatical devotion to said Pope. He does cross himself before every game!


Nobody else better cross him! :)

sagegrouse
12-09-2017, 11:27 AM
I thought that was big men? Can a mod please chime in and remind me what the Duke program weaknesses are again? Hard to keep it straight.

/s
We have a "turnover" problem. All the best players leave after only one season under K's torturous tutelage. Therefore, we are condemned to play mostly freshmen. Dreadful.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
12-09-2017, 01:15 PM
We have a "turnover" problem. All the best players leave after only one season under K's torturous tutelage. Therefore, we are condemned to play mostly freshmen. Dreadful.

Player retention is a srs issu.

duke4ever19
12-09-2017, 03:39 PM
So, Kansas (the No.2 ranked team) goes down earlier this week in a semi-home game to Washington, and Duke (No.1) goes down on the road today vs BC.

The No.3 ranked team is Mich. St., but we beat them earlier this year, and without much help from Bagley. Florida is going to drop like a rock.

So I'm assuming that Nova take over at No.1 and do we just move down one slot to No.2.

jv001
12-09-2017, 03:42 PM
So, Kansas (the No.2 ranked team) goes down earlier this week in a semi-home game to Washington, and Duke (No.1) goes down on the road today vs BC.

The No.3 ranked team is Mich. St., but we beat them earlier this year, and without much help from Bagley. Florida is going to drop like a rock.

So I'm assuming that Nova take over at No.1 and do we just move down one slot to No.2.

I just hope Duke stays in the top ten all year and get's better in Feb-Mar. Especially on defense. GoDuke!

YmoBeThere
12-10-2017, 03:51 PM
Bobby about to notch another good win as ASU leads Kansas by 11 with under 2:20 to go.

arnie
12-10-2017, 04:20 PM
So, Kansas (the No.2 ranked team) goes down earlier this week in a semi-home game to Washington, and Duke (No.1) goes down on the road today vs BC.

The No.3 ranked team is Mich. St., but we beat them earlier this year, and without much help from Bagley. Florida is going to drop like a rock.

So I'm assuming that Nova take over at No.1 and do we just move down one slot to No.2.
I don’t really care about the polls right now, but our loss was a bad loss. Think Mich State moves ahead of us.

duke4ever19
12-10-2017, 05:07 PM
I don’t really care about the polls right now, but our loss was a bad loss. Think Mich State moves ahead of us.

I don't put much stock in them either -- at least not in December -- but they are a part of the college basketball fan experience and almost by default, I do think about them and sometimes try to predict how the AP Poll will look on Monday.

For what it's worth, Gary Parrish dropped us all the way down to #10 in his personal poll. I doubt the AP poll has us that low on Monday.

wilson
12-11-2017, 08:54 AM
Arizona State now sits at #1 in ESPN's power rankings (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21732416/college-basketball-power-rankings-arizona-state-makes-big-big-move-no-1). I'm obviously not thrilled about our loss on Saturday, but I'm glad to see Bobby's crew getting some time in the sun. How long before we get the "Bobby Hurley heir apparent thread" up?

UrinalCake
12-11-2017, 09:17 AM
For what it's worth, Gary Parrish dropped us all the way down to #10 in his personal poll. I doubt the AP poll has us that low on Monday.

Parrish’s poll is much more volatile than the actual polls; he updates it every day and is not afraid to move teams up or down huge amounts. After Kansas lost to Washington he dropped them from 2 all the way down to 25, with the reasoning that they did not have any good wins.

I suspect that there’s an element of “we didnt drop Duke as long as they kept winning, but now that they’ve lost we’re going to ding them for all of those narrow wins they had.” Which is completely fair. Honestly, the Michigan State game is looking like an outlier right now compared to the rest of our season’s performances. We still have the win and you can’t take it away from us, but I think some people are going to chalk it up to Grayson going off and not an indicator of how good we actually are. Take away that win and we look like a #15-20 team at best.

Wahoo2000
12-14-2017, 01:05 PM
Crazy ending to the Wky-Wisconsin game last night. Wky hits a shot with 2 seconds left to tie the game at 80. On the attempted inbound, WIS goes to set a screen on the guy defending the inbounds pass. The Wky defender doesn't see the screen coming and has a pretty decent collision with the screener, knocking him down. Ref calls a blocking foul on the Wky player (NOT the screener, though there was some confusion on this with the announcers) for pancaking the screener, leading to a 1-and-1 for Wisconsin. They hit the first, intentionally miss the second, and Wky with no timeouts has to throw a 3/4 court heave that's way off.

What a way to lose. The "blocking" call was suspect, at best (especially since it looked like the screener had a foot out of bounds, which makes the screen illegal). This is probably why more mid-majors don't want to go play at P5 schools without a return game. Impressed with the Wky coach not completely blowing his top, and even saying in his postgame presser that that one call didn't lose them the game even though without it, almost zero chance Wisconsin wins in regulation............. unless of course, with only about 2 seconds left, a team could throw it full court to about the foul line, get down one back-to-the-basket dribble, fake, and hit a turnaround fadeaway that goes in a the buzzer....... but when has THAT ever happened?) ;-)

Link to ESPN recap with video of the key sequence:
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/recap?gameId=400986432

devildeac
12-14-2017, 01:15 PM
Crazy ending to the Wky-Wisconsin game last night. Wky hits a shot with 2 seconds left to tie the game at 80. On the attempted inbound, WIS goes to set a screen on the guy defending the inbounds pass. The Wky defender doesn't see the screen coming and has a pretty decent collision with the screener, knocking him down. Ref calls a blocking foul on the Wky player (NOT the screener, though there was some confusion on this with the announcers) for pancaking the screener, leading to a 1-and-1 for Wisconsin. They hit the first, intentionally miss the second, and Wky with no timeouts has to throw a 3/4 court heave that's way off.

What a way to lose. The "blocking" call was suspect, at best (especially since it looked like the screener had a foot out of bounds, which makes the screen illegal). This is probably why more mid-majors don't want to go play at P5 schools without a return game. Impressed with the Wky coach not completely blowing his top, and even saying in his postgame presser that that one call didn't lose them the game even though without it, almost zero chance Wisconsin wins in regulation... unless of course, with only about 2 seconds left, a team could throw it full court to about the foul line, get down one back-to-the-basket dribble, fake, and hit a turnaround fadeaway that goes in a the buzzer... but when has THAT ever happened?) ;-)

Link to ESPN recap with video of the key sequence:
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/recap?gameId=400986432

Ref named valentine or luckie by any chance?

Plus, I've seen schools who've cheated for 23 years (you know, non-academic fraud stuff:rolleyes:), have bogus jump balls called when one of their bigs has a paw on the baseline right in front of a ref...

:rolleyes::mad:

Rich
12-14-2017, 01:47 PM
Crazy ending to the Wky-Wisconsin game last night. Wky hits a shot with 2 seconds left to tie the game at 80. On the attempted inbound, WIS goes to set a screen on the guy defending the inbounds pass. The Wky defender doesn't see the screen coming and has a pretty decent collision with the screener, knocking him down. Ref calls a blocking foul on the Wky player (NOT the screener, though there was some confusion on this with the announcers) for pancaking the screener, leading to a 1-and-1 for Wisconsin. They hit the first, intentionally miss the second, and Wky with no timeouts has to throw a 3/4 court heave that's way off.

What a way to lose. The "blocking" call was suspect, at best (especially since it looked like the screener had a foot out of bounds, which makes the screen illegal). This is probably why more mid-majors don't want to go play at P5 schools without a return game. Impressed with the Wky coach not completely blowing his top, and even saying in his postgame presser that that one call didn't lose them the game even though without it, almost zero chance Wisconsin wins in regulation... unless of course, with only about 2 seconds left, a team could throw it full court to about the foul line, get down one back-to-the-basket dribble, fake, and hit a turnaround fadeaway that goes in a the buzzer... but when has THAT ever happened?) ;-)

Link to ESPN recap with video of the key sequence:
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/recap?gameId=400986432

You probably good have stopped at Wisconsin scoring 80 points and that would've been enough to make it crazy

JasonEvans
12-14-2017, 02:53 PM
Western Kentucky is 6-4 and #108 in Ken Pom... winning that Wisconsin game could have been big for them (not for the Pom ranking... an extra point resulting in a win wouldn't alter Pom's numbers more than a tiny fraction), but in terms of overall record and record versus top 100 teams, it could have made a difference for them. I hope they are not on the bubble in March and have to look back on this (somewhat) screw-job with anger.

-jk
12-14-2017, 03:44 PM
Crazy ending to the Wky-Wisconsin game last night. Wky hits a shot with 2 seconds left to tie the game at 80. On the attempted inbound, WIS goes to set a screen on the guy defending the inbounds pass. The Wky defender doesn't see the screen coming and has a pretty decent collision with the screener, knocking him down. Ref calls a blocking foul on the Wky player (NOT the screener, though there was some confusion on this with the announcers) for pancaking the screener, leading to a 1-and-1 for Wisconsin. They hit the first, intentionally miss the second, and Wky with no timeouts has to throw a 3/4 court heave that's way off.

What a way to lose. The "blocking" call was suspect, at best (especially since it looked like the screener had a foot out of bounds, which makes the screen illegal). This is probably why more mid-majors don't want to go play at P5 schools without a return game. Impressed with the Wky coach not completely blowing his top, and even saying in his postgame presser that that one call didn't lose them the game even though without it, almost zero chance Wisconsin wins in regulation... unless of course, with only about 2 seconds left, a team could throw it full court to about the foul line, get down one back-to-the-basket dribble, fake, and hit a turnaround fadeaway that goes in a the buzzer... but when has THAT ever happened?) ;-)

Link to ESPN recap with video of the key sequence:
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/recap?gameId=400986432

While the signal motion was wrong, I think the call was right - so long as the ref thought the Wisc player had established a position to set a pick (it's a bit more distance than to draw a proper charge - and it was close) and was in-bounds.

I think the call should have been signaled as a "push" rather than a "block" - that was a ref's mental mistake. And it definitely was not a charge - that's just announcers being morons.

-jk

Lunchab1es
12-15-2017, 09:41 AM
Great article on "unknown superstar" who has spent a great deal of time studying Duke legend J.J. Redick:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2749054-unknown-superstar-fletcher-magee-is-most-unstoppable-lethal-shooter-in-cbb

As Georgia Tech has already learned, this may be a team High Majors want to avoid come March, as Magee could "pull a Curry" and slay a giant.

UrinalCake
01-04-2018, 10:09 PM
Man, why would anyone want to play for a team in the Pac-10? I really wanted to watch the Arizona-AZ State game earlier this week and could not because it is only shown on the PAC-10 Network, which nobody carries. Now I actually want to watch the AZ State-Colorado game to see if an upset happens, but I can't for the same reason. Why would a league deliberately restrict the viewership of its games, especially the high profile ones? If I were a player I'd want to be on ESPN as often as possible.

Stray Gator
01-04-2018, 10:22 PM
Man, why would anyone want to play for a team in the Pac-10? I really wanted to watch the Arizona-AZ State game earlier this week and could not because it is only shown on the PAC-10 Network, which nobody carries. Now I actually want to watch the AZ State-Colorado game to see if an upset happens, but I can't for the same reason. Why would a league deliberately restrict the viewership of its games, especially the high profile ones? If I were a player I'd want to be on ESPN as often as possible.

There are no less than 7 separate Pac12 Networks on Spectrum Cable TV here in Durham, but I think they may be part of a "Sports Package" option that requires payment of an extra $10 or so per month.

proelitedota
01-04-2018, 10:39 PM
Man, why would anyone want to play for a team in the Pac-10? I really wanted to watch the Arizona-AZ State game earlier this week and could not because it is only shown on the PAC-10 Network, which nobody carries. Now I actually want to watch the AZ State-Colorado game to see if an upset happens, but I can't for the same reason. Why would a league deliberately restrict the viewership of its games, especially the high profile ones? If I were a player I'd want to be on ESPN as often as possible.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ncaaBBallStreams/

Please install adblock first.

UrinalCake
01-04-2018, 11:46 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/ncaaBBallStreams/

Please install adblock first.

I've used some of those types of streams before. It always took a ton of trial an error before I could find one that worked. And I always had to run it inside a virtual machine because they were riddled with viruses and spyware. It almost became a game to try to figure out which X's actually closed the popup windows and which were fake ones that would link you to even more popup windows :)

Anyways, I checked the box score the old fashioned way and saw that AZ State lost. Those that doubted the team after their hot start likely feel justified. Still a lot of season left for them to prove themselves.

Truth&Justise
01-10-2018, 08:49 AM
Last night's Michigan-Purdue game exemplified everything wrong with basketball replay review. With five seconds left in a tie-game, a Michigan player drove the lane and got by his man. The defender took a big swipe downward, knocking the ball out of bounds. Refs ruled it for Michigan.

Then they took seven minutes to review it. In real-time, the call looked 100% correct. However, going frame-by-frame, they determined there were about two frames showing the offensive player's finger under the ball last. They reverse and award the ball to Purdue, who promptly goes down court and hits the winning shot (a free throw, in this case). Completely changed the outcome of the game.

This is different from how the game is called 99% of the time. It rewards a defender for knocking the ball out of bounds. And usually the replay also reveals some contact with the offensive player's hand/wrist -- why can we review at the molecular level for who touched it last, but not for a foul? The result is inequitable. Not to mention we get this "benefit" for the small cost of tripling the time it takes to end a basketball game.

Still working on a solution. But the potential for this sort of mistake (imagine if the defender had blatantly raked the offensive player across the arms, with no foul called initially) has long bothered me.

thedukelamere
01-10-2018, 09:14 AM
And usually the replay also reveals some contact with the offensive player's hand/wrist -- why can we review at the molecular level for who touched it last, but not for a foul?

My thoughts exactly when I was watching the game. Obviously it gets dicey if you allow for fouls to be called or overturned during a review, but Michigan got hosed on that call as well as the ticky-tack foul to give Haas a free throw with 4 seconds left. Still think Beilein should have called a timeout and drawn something up instead of settling for a contested half-court heave.

Olympic Fan
01-10-2018, 12:22 PM
Last night's Michigan-Purdue game exemplified everything wrong with basketball replay review. With five seconds left in a tie-game, a Michigan player drove the lane and got by his man. The defender took a big swipe downward, knocking the ball out of bounds. Refs ruled it for Michigan.

Then they took seven minutes to review it. In real-time, the call looked 100% correct. However, going frame-by-frame, they determined there were about two frames showing the offensive player's finger under the ball last. They reverse and award the ball to Purdue, who promptly goes down court and hits the winning shot (a free throw, in this case). Completely changed the outcome of the game.

This is different from how the game is called 99% of the time. It rewards a defender for knocking the ball out of bounds. And usually the replay also reveals some contact with the offensive player's hand/wrist -- why can we review at the molecular level for who touched it last, but not for a foul? The result is inequitable. Not to mention we get this "benefit" for the small cost of tripling the time it takes to end a basketball game.

Still working on a solution. But the potential for this sort of mistake (imagine if the defender had blatantly raked the offensive player across the arms, with no foul called initially) has long bothered me.

I saw that play and I was also outraged ... the seven minute review was ridiculous. It's one of those things where if you go to the review and a mistake is not obvious, the play should stand as called.

That wasn't the only questionable finish Tuesday night. Anybody else see the end of the Texas A&M at Kentucky game? The Wildcats are up one with four seconds left when a Kentucky player misses the second of two free throws. A&M rebounds and without a timeout, pushes the ball upcourt. They try a long pass to their center, who is one-on-one with a defender under their basket. But the pass goes astray because the Kentucky defender has his arms around the A&M player, holding him so he can't get the ball. No call by the refs and Kentucky wins by one ... no review possible either.

rasputin
01-10-2018, 12:49 PM
I saw that play and I was also outraged ... the seven minute review was ridiculous. It's one of those things where if you go to the review and a mistake is not obvious, the play should stand as called.

That wasn't the only questionable finish Tuesday night. Anybody else see the end of the Texas A&M at Kentucky game? The Wildcats are up one with four seconds left when a Kentucky player misses the second of two free throws. A&M rebounds and without a timeout, pushes the ball upcourt. They try a long pass to their center, who is one-on-one with a defender under their basket. But the pass goes astray because the Kentucky defender has his arms around the A&M player, holding him so he can't get the ball. No call by the refs and Kentucky wins by one ... no review possible either.

This is one of the things we're seeing with video review of calls, in all sports. The big issue lately has been the Zapruderization of did the receiver have control of the ball and then get two feet down before going out of bounds. Plays that clearly look like catches in real time are being overturned. And the flip side of the problem is that there isn't any rhyme or reason as to when they are going to say there is or isn't indisputable video evidence. I was in favor of replay when they first started doing it (still remembering Don Denkinger in 1985), but I'm not sure that sports are better for it now.

Stray Gator
01-10-2018, 12:50 PM
. . . That wasn't the only questionable finish Tuesday night. Anybody else see the end of the Texas A&M at Kentucky game? The Wildcats are up one with four seconds left when a Kentucky player misses the second of two free throws. A&M rebounds and without a timeout, pushes the ball upcourt. They try a long pass to their center, who is one-on-one with a defender under their basket. But the pass goes astray because the Kentucky defender has his arms around the A&M player, holding him so he can't get the ball. No call by the refs and Kentucky wins by one ... no review possible either.

I saw the finish of the TAMU-Kentucky game, and would say that calling it "questionable" is far too generous. The TAMU player had inside position on the Kentucky defender in the lane and it appeared that he would easily have been able to catch the long pass and lay it in for the win if not for the Kentucky defender's left arm wrapped around his waist, holding him back so that the ball sailed over his head and landed harmlessly out of bounds under the basket. The most interesting thing to me was the fact that while the TAMU player looked over at the official in disbelief at the non-call, TAMU's coach was only momentarily incredulous before he seemed to realize that protesting that blatant "home cooking" in Rupp would be futile. And Calipari had a look on his face that might best be described as that of a youngster who had just shoved his GameBoy under the covers barely a second before his Mom came into his room to make sure he was doing his homework.

PackMan97
01-10-2018, 01:00 PM
https://youtu.be/ZJHEYGHsZ-k?t=5893

thedukelamere
01-10-2018, 02:55 PM
https://youtu.be/ZJHEYGHsZ-k?t=5893

My favorite is Wenyen Gabriel's look at the ref... He knows he got away with one. Still would have been a tough shot to get off with .4 seconds left.

Stray Gator
01-10-2018, 03:46 PM
My favorite is Wenyen Gabriel's look at the ref... He knows he got away with one. Still would have been a tough shot to get off with .4 seconds left.

Using the pause function, it appears to me that the ball would have been caught with about 1.1 seconds, while moving to the rim, so I believe there would have been enough time for what should have been an easy lay-up. Of course, under those conditions, there's no assurance that he would have made the lay-up -- or, for that matter, that he would have made either free throw had the foul been whistled. But those uncertainties don't diminish the fact that TAMU was unjustly deprived of the opportunity to win or tie the game because the officials failed, or refused, to call the obvious holding foul on Kentucky. I hope it ultimately proves to be immaterial, but we all know how much difference a home loss to an unranked team can mean for tournament seeding.

flyingdutchdevil
01-10-2018, 04:12 PM
Using the pause function, it appears to me that the ball would have been caught with about 1.1 seconds, while moving to the rim, so I believe there would have been enough time for what should have been an easy lay-up. Of course, under those conditions, there's no assurance that he would have made the lay-up -- or, for that matter, that he would have made either free throw had the foul been whistled. But those uncertainties don't diminish the fact that TAMU was unjustly deprived of the opportunity to win or tie the game because the officials failed, or refused, to call the obvious holding foul on Kentucky. I hope it ultimately proves to be immaterial, but we all know how much difference a home loss to an unranked team can mean for tournament seeding.

There is no way you’re not a lawyer.

DukieInBrasil
01-10-2018, 04:52 PM
Using the pause function, it appears to me that the ball would have been caught with about 1.1 seconds, while moving to the rim, so I believe there would have been enough time for what should have been an easy lay-up. Of course, under those conditions, there's no assurance that he would have made the lay-up -- or, for that matter, that he would have made either free throw had the foul been whistled. But those uncertainties don't diminish the fact that TAMU was unjustly deprived of the opportunity to win or tie the game because the officials failed, or refused, to call the obvious holding foul on Kentucky. I hope it ultimately proves to be immaterial, but we all know how much difference a home loss to an unranked team can mean for tournament seeding.

I'm still pissed about the obvious hold on Boozer vs IU. Players have to know that refs swallow their whistles with under a minute to play, and even more so on a change of possession play with under 10 seconds.

Rich
01-10-2018, 05:01 PM
I'm still pissed about the obvious hold on Boozer vs IU. Players have to know that refs swallow their whistles with under a minute to play, and even more so on a change of possession play with under 10 seconds.

It's over...this thread now staying on topic, that is. It's over.

thedukelamere
01-10-2018, 05:36 PM
It's over...this thread now staying on topic, that is. It's over.


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/MetallicShadyBittern-small.gif

Truth&Justise
01-11-2018, 03:37 PM
I saw that play and I was also outraged ... the seven minute review was ridiculous. It's one of those things where if you go to the review and a mistake is not obvious, the play should stand as called.


This is one of the things we're seeing with video review of calls, in all sports. The big issue lately has been the Zapruderization of did the receiver have control of the ball and then get two feet down before going out of bounds. Plays that clearly look like catches in real time are being overturned. And the flip side of the problem is that there isn't any rhyme or reason as to when they are going to say there is or isn't indisputable video evidence. I was in favor of replay when they first started doing it (still remembering Don Denkinger in 1985), but I'm not sure that sports are better for it now.

Been thinking about this, here's my proposed solution: refs can watch as many replays as they want, but only in real time. Maybe even half-speed. But no super-slo-mo or frame-by-frame. By that point we've gone well beyond fixing obvious mistakes.

JasonEvans
01-11-2018, 03:44 PM
Been thinking about this, here's my proposed solution: refs can watch as many replays as they want, but only in real time. Maybe even half-speed. But no super-slo-mo or frame-by-frame. By that point we've gone well beyond fixing obvious mistakes.

The problem becomes when the audience watching on TV sees something the refs do not see. That is when the fans get outraged and angry. That is what must be avoided and that is the whole reason reply has come into being. If the fans did not have replay, there would be no reason for the refs to have it either.

brevity
01-11-2018, 07:18 PM
The problem becomes when the audience watching on TV sees something the refs do not see. That is when the fans get outraged and angry. That is what must be avoided and that is the whole reason reply has come into being. If the fans did not have replay, there would be no reason for the refs to have it either.

Then the broadcaster has to get involved.

Take ESPN. When Duke wins a controversial call, ESPN's production crew makes sure to show the replay a few times so that the viewer can question it and get mad. When Duke loses a controversial call, ESPN's production crew makes sure to incinerate the tape immediately and never show it again.

As for the problem of lengthy reviews, we're in an awkward period of time where the technology of robot officiating has not caught up to the technology of instant replay.

7976

"Hello, Terrapins. I am fluent in over 6 million forms of bite me."

El_Diablo
01-12-2018, 10:28 AM
7976

"Hello, Terrapins. I am fluent in over 6 million forms of bite me."

"I suggest a new strategy...let the Dukie win."

PackMan97
01-12-2018, 10:37 AM
7976

"Hello, Terrapins. I am fluent in over 6 million forms of bite me."

edit: dagnabit....can't read. Mayland still sucks donkey nuts.

DukieInBrasil
01-13-2018, 06:11 PM
MSU coughed it up at home to Michigan today. Just further evidence that A) every team has some vulnerabilities and B) 18 year old kids can be pretty erratic in terms of performance.

Troublemaker
01-17-2018, 10:55 AM
Trae Young with 12 turnovers as OU got drubbed at KSU last night.

If Young regresses a bit, Bagley (and others) are still in this NPOY race.

JasonEvans
01-17-2018, 11:16 AM
Trae Young with 12 turnovers as OU got drubbed at KSU last night.

If Young regresses a bit, Bagley (and others) are still in this NPOY race.

I think a lot will depend on the success of the teams. Oklahoma has now lost 2 of their past 4 and in the brutal B12 (better than the ACC this year), it would be easy for a team to get in a slump. On the other hand, Duke has won 3 in a row and seems to be surging a bit.

If Bagley continues to be a double-double machine and Duke stays in the top 5 the rest of the year (perhaps even rising again to #1 or #2) but Oklahoma languishes in the teens or 20s or even drops out of the rankings, then I think Bagley can take the award from Trae.

I don't hear much about Jalen Brunson or Mikal Bridges but I guess they are still in it. Miles Bridges star seems to have faded for the moment. It feels like it is Bagley vs. Young for now.

Olympic Fan
01-17-2018, 01:01 PM
I think a lot will depend on the success of the teams. Oklahoma has now lost 2 of their past 4 and in the brutal B12 (better than the ACC this year), it would be easy for a team to get in a slump.

Sigh, do we have to go through this again?

Once again, the 10-team Big 12 is being praised for not having bad teams at the bottom. How do you compare that with a 15-team ACC that has more good teams than the Big 12, but also a few bad ones at the bottom.

Check Pomeroy (the ratings I respect most).

The ACC has No. 3 Virginia, No. 4 Duke, No. 9 UNC, No. 15 Clemson and No. 25 Notre Dame. The three of the top 10 and five of the top 25.

The "brutal" Big 12 has two in the top 10 (No. 5 Texas Tech and No. 10 Kansas) and just two more in the top 25 (No. 12 West Virginia and No. 20 Oklahoma).

Furthermore, the ACC has 10 teams in the top 50 -- the Big 12 has eight. The ACC has 13 teams in the top 100 ... the Big 12 puts all 10 in the top 100 -- barely (Iowa State is No. 100). In fact, a little flip flop could change that soon as Georgia Tech, climbing rapidly since regaining its health, is up to No. 101. They get in and only hapless Pitt is out of the top 100 (they are at 207).

You could say, according to Pomeroy, that the Big 12 doesn't have a team as bad as Pitt ... but the Big 12 doesn't have a team as good as Virginia or Duke. The ACC has more good teams.

BTW, if you go by the RPI, the ACC's superiority is even more pronounced.

The ACC has the top three teams in the NCAA's favorite tool -- No. 1 Duke, No. 2 UNC and No. 3 Virginia (plus No. 7 Clemson, No. 16 Louisville, No. 24 Miami) -- the top 3, four of the top 7 and six of the top 25.

The Big 12 has No. 8 Kansas and No. 9 Oklahoma, plus No. 14 Texas Tech, No. 20 West Virginia and No. 22 TCU -- four ACC teams ranked before any Big 12 team

The ACC has eight top 50 teams (to six for the Big 12) and 12 top 100 teams (to 10 for the Big 12). Again, no terrible teams in the Big 12, but not nearly as many good teams.

The myth of Big 12 superiority is the product of being a small, well-balanced league. I'd be more apt to accept it if the Big 12 didn't &^%$ in its pants during NCAA Tournament play every year.

jv001
01-17-2018, 01:11 PM
Sigh, do we have to go through this again?

Once again, the 10-team Big 12 is being praised for not having bad teams at the bottom. How do you compare that with a 15-team ACC that has more good teams than the Big 12, but also a few bad ones at the bottom.

Check Pomeroy (the ratings I respect most).

The ACC has No. 3 Virginia, No. 4 Duke, No. 9 UNC, No. 15 Clemson and No. 25 Notre Dame. The three of the top 10 and five of the top 25.

The "brutal" Big 12 has two in the top 10 (No. 5 Texas Tech and No. 10 Kansas) and just two more in the top 25 (No. 12 West Virginia and No. 20 Oklahoma).

Furthermore, the ACC has 10 teams in the top 50 -- the Big 12 has eight. The ACC has 13 teams in the top 100 ... the Big 12 puts all 10 in the top 100 -- barely (Iowa State is No. 100). In fact, a little flip flop could change that soon as Georgia Tech, climbing rapidly since regaining its health, is up to No. 101. They get in and only hapless Pitt is out of the top 100 (they are at 207).

You could say, according to Pomeroy, that the Big 12 doesn't have a team as bad as Pitt ... but the Big 12 doesn't have a team as good as Virginia or Duke. The ACC has more good teams.

BTW, if you go by the RPI, the ACC's superiority is even more pronounced.

The ACC has the top three teams in the NCAA's favorite tool -- No. 1 Duke, No. 2 UNC and No. 3 Virginia (plus No. 7 Clemson, No. 16 Louisville, No. 24 Miami) -- the top 3, four of the top 7 and six of the top 25.

The Big 12 has No. 8 Kansas and No. 9 Oklahoma, plus No. 14 Texas Tech, No. 20 West Virginia and No. 22 TCU -- four ACC teams ranked before any Big 12 team

The ACC has eight top 50 teams (to six for the Big 12) and 12 top 100 teams (to 10 for the Big 12). Again, no terrible teams in the Big 12, but not nearly as many good teams.

The myth of Big 12 superiority is the product of being a small, well-balanced league. I'd be more apt to accept it if the Big 12 didn't &^%$ in its pants during NCAA Tournament play every year.

You've convinced me in this debate. GoACC(minus 1) and GoDuke!

JasonEvans
01-17-2018, 01:13 PM
Sigh, do we have to go through this again?

Once again, the 10-team Big 12 is being praised for not having bad teams at the bottom. How do you compare that with a 15-team ACC that has more good teams than the Big 12, but also a few bad ones at the bottom.

Check Pomeroy (the ratings I respect most).

The ACC has No. 3 Virginia, No. 4 Duke, No. 9 UNC, No. 15 Clemson and No. 25 Notre Dame. The three of the top 10 and five of the top 25.

The "brutal" Big 12 has two in the top 10 (No. 5 Texas Tech and No. 10 Kansas) and just two more in the top 25 (No. 12 West Virginia and No. 20 Oklahoma).

Furthermore, the ACC has 10 teams in the top 50 -- the Big 12 has eight. The ACC has 13 teams in the top 100 ... the Big 12 puts all 10 in the top 100 -- barely (Iowa State is No. 100). In fact, a little flip flop could change that soon as Georgia Tech, climbing rapidly since regaining its health, is up to No. 101. They get in and only hapless Pitt is out of the top 100 (they are at 207).

You could say, according to Pomeroy, that the Big 12 doesn't have a team as bad as Pitt ... but the Big 12 doesn't have a team as good as Virginia or Duke. The ACC has more good teams.

BTW, if you go by the RPI, the ACC's superiority is even more pronounced.

The ACC has the top three teams in the NCAA's favorite tool -- No. 1 Duke, No. 2 UNC and No. 3 Virginia (plus No. 7 Clemson, No. 16 Louisville, No. 24 Miami) -- the top 3, four of the top 7 and six of the top 25.

The Big 12 has No. 8 Kansas and No. 9 Oklahoma, plus No. 14 Texas Tech, No. 20 West Virginia and No. 22 TCU -- four ACC teams ranked before any Big 12 team

The ACC has eight top 50 teams (to six for the Big 12) and 12 top 100 teams (to 10 for the Big 12). Again, no terrible teams in the Big 12, but not nearly as many good teams.

The myth of Big 12 superiority is the product of being a small, well-balanced league. I'd be more apt to accept it if the Big 12 didn't &^%$ in its pants during NCAA Tournament play every year.

I will gleefully cede this one to my Olympic friend. The ACC is best!!

Wander
01-17-2018, 01:28 PM
The ACC has No. 3 Virginia, No. 4 Duke, No. 9 UNC, No. 15 Clemson and No. 25 Notre Dame. The three of the top 10 and five of the top 25.

The "brutal" Big 12 has two in the top 10 (No. 5 Texas Tech and No. 10 Kansas) and just two more in the top 25 (No. 12 West Virginia and No. 20 Oklahoma).

Furthermore, the ACC has 10 teams in the top 50 -- the Big 12 has eight. The ACC has 13 teams in the top 100 ... the Big 12 puts all 10 in the top 100 -- barely (Iowa State is No. 100). In fact, a little flip flop could change that soon as Georgia Tech, climbing rapidly since regaining its health, is up to No. 101. They get in and only hapless Pitt is out of the top 100 (they are at 207).

This is horrible logic. Not normalizing by number of teams is absurd. By your argument, Division 1 overall is better than the ACC because it has 25 top 25 teams and 100 top 100 teams.

By the numbers you quoted, the Big 12 has:

20% top 10 teams (20% for the ACC)
40% top 25 teams (33% for the ACC)
80% top 50 teams (66% for the ACC)
100% top 100 teams (87% for the ACC)

So, yes, the Big 12 is better, at least by the computer numbers we have at the moment. You're correct that this could change with NCAA tournament results. But let's not be that guy who mocked the Big East for using the "absolute number of top teams" argument for years and then instantly changed their tune once the ACC expanded.

BlueDevil2K
01-17-2018, 01:32 PM
I tend to like the Sagarin conference ratings, which usually seem to roughly match my own impressions.

http://sagarin.com/sports/cbsend.htm

shows

1 BIG 12
2 ATLANTIC COAST
3 BIG EAST
4 SOUTHEASTERN
5 BIG TEN
6 PAC-12
7 AMERICAN ATHLETIC


and

3 Duke
5 Virginia
6 North Carolina
18 Louisville
23 Notre Dame
26 Florida State
27 Clemson
29 Miami-Florida
44 Virginia Tech
50 Syracuse
62 NC State
78 Boston College
80 Wake Forest
91 Georgia Tech
177 Pittsburgh


vs.

4 Kansas
9 West Virginia
11 Texas Tech
16 Oklahoma
25 TCU
28 Baylor
32 Texas
38 Kansas State
56 Oklahoma State
71 Iowa State


I don't see any crazy outliers in any of those lists. I'd perhaps expect Clemson to be slightly higher than Notre Dame/FSU, but they're all clustered together in the mid-20s. You can draw lines various ways...the ACC has 3 teams in the top 6 and the Big 12 has 1...but the Big 12 has more in the top 25 (5 vs. 4). Both have 8 top-40 teams, but that's 80% of the Big 12 vs. just over half of the ACC. Sagarin runs the numbers three different ways, and all three show the Big 12 being a bit stronger than the ACC right now.

English
01-17-2018, 01:39 PM
I think a lot will depend on the success of the teams. Oklahoma has now lost 2 of their past 4 and in the brutal B12 (better than the ACC this year), it would be easy for a team to get in a slump. On the other hand, Duke has won 3 in a row and seems to be surging a bit.

If Bagley continues to be a double-double machine and Duke stays in the top 5 the rest of the year (perhaps even rising again to #1 or #2) but Oklahoma languishes in the teens or 20s or even drops out of the rankings, then I think Bagley can take the award from Trae.

I don't hear much about Jalen Brunson or Mikal Bridges but I guess they are still in it. Miles Bridges star seems to have faded for the moment. It feels like it is Bagley vs. Young for now.

JWill and a couple other analysts keep banging the Jalen Brunson POY candidacy drum over the last week or so, but it's mostly couched in a "a guy who's completely underrated, but should be considered in the POY race clearly behind Trae Young & Marin Bagley III" kind of a way. I think you're right, though, if Nova surges to an overall No. 1 seed behind steady leadership of Brunson, and the two frontrunners fade a bit in individual and team success, that'd be the only conceivable way he'd jump ahead. Right now, it certainly looks like a two-man race.

kAzE
01-17-2018, 01:42 PM
The ACC has more good teams for sure, but I'm not sure any Big 12 team has a 5 game schedule as easy as Wake forest twice, Pittsburgh twice, and on the road at Miami. The average B12 conference schedule is probably tougher than the average ACC schedule (but especially Duke, since we only play UVA and a Bonzie-less Notre Dame once each at home, and we can't play against ourselves).

duke4ever19
01-17-2018, 03:17 PM
The ACC has more good teams for sure, but I'm not sure any Big 12 team has a 5 game schedule as easy as Wake forest twice, Pittsburgh twice, and on the road at Miami. The average B12 conference schedule is probably tougher than the average ACC schedule (but especially Duke, since we only play UVA and a Bonzie-less Notre Dame once each at home, and we can't play against ourselves).

We definitely ended up with a favorable draw for our ACC schedule this season. Kind of the opposite of last season, which seemed brutal, though I can't verify that claim with data. I just remember it being a grueling schedule.

BD80
01-17-2018, 05:13 PM
... Once again, the 10-team Big 12 ...

12 what?

tbyers11
01-20-2018, 10:47 AM
Story here (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22159379/kansas-jayhawks-freshman-billy-preston-signs-european-team-bc-igokea) by Jeff Borzello.

According to Preston's mother, the family got tired of waiting on an answer of whether from the NCAA as to whether Billy would be able to play for Kansas.

The Bosnian club, BC Igokea, and the Adriatic Basketball Association confirmed the signing. Kansas has not commented.

Doesn't look like Preston will ever suit for Kansas. Silvio de Sousa has played a few minutes the last 2 games but it looks like the Jayhawks are going to continue to be very thin in the front court behind Azubuike for the rest of the year

TruBlu
01-20-2018, 11:20 AM
Story here (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22159379/kansas-jayhawks-freshman-billy-preston-signs-european-team-bc-igokea) by Jeff Borzello.

According to Preston's mother, the family got tired of waiting on an answer of whether from the NCAA as to whether Billy would be able to play for Kansas.

The Bosnian club, BC Igokea, and the Adriatic Basketball Association confirmed the signing. Kansas has not commented.

Doesn't look like Preston will ever suit for Kansas. Silvio de Sousa has played a few minutes the last 2 games but it looks like the Jayhawks are going to continue to be very thin in the front court behind Azubuike for the rest of the year

But will he go round in circles?

budwom
01-20-2018, 12:38 PM
Sigh, do we have to go through this again?

Once again, the 10-team Big 12 is being praised for not having bad teams at the bottom. How do you compare that with a 15-team ACC that has more good teams than the Big 12, but also a few bad ones at the bottom.

Check Pomeroy (the ratings I respect most).

The ACC has No. 3 Virginia, No. 4 Duke, No. 9 UNC, No. 15 Clemson and No. 25 Notre Dame. The three of the top 10 and five of the top 25.

The "brutal" Big 12 has two in the top 10 (No. 5 Texas Tech and No. 10 Kansas) and just two more in the top 25 (No. 12 West Virginia and No. 20 Oklahoma).

Furthermore, the ACC has 10 teams in the top 50 -- the Big 12 has eight. The ACC has 13 teams in the top 100 ... the Big 12 puts all 10 in the top 100 -- barely (Iowa State is No. 100). In fact, a little flip flop could change that soon as Georgia Tech, climbing rapidly since regaining its health, is up to No. 101. They get in and only hapless Pitt is out of the top 100 (they are at 207).

You could say, according to Pomeroy, that the Big 12 doesn't have a team as bad as Pitt ... but the Big 12 doesn't have a team as good as Virginia or Duke. The ACC has more good teams.

BTW, if you go by the RPI, the ACC's superiority is even more pronounced.

The ACC has the top three teams in the NCAA's favorite tool -- No. 1 Duke, No. 2 UNC and No. 3 Virginia (plus No. 7 Clemson, No. 16 Louisville, No. 24 Miami) -- the top 3, four of the top 7 and six of the top 25.

The Big 12 has No. 8 Kansas and No. 9 Oklahoma, plus No. 14 Texas Tech, No. 20 West Virginia and No. 22 TCU -- four ACC teams ranked before any Big 12 team

The ACC has eight top 50 teams (to six for the Big 12) and 12 top 100 teams (to 10 for the Big 12). Again, no terrible teams in the Big 12, but not nearly as many good teams.

The myth of Big 12 superiority is the product of being a small, well-balanced league. I'd be more apt to accept it if the Big 12 didn't &^%$ in its pants during NCAA Tournament play every year.

I don't really care who ranks which conference where, but your condescending (was the sigh really necessary) response to Mr. Evans is not altogether convincing. Sagarin has the Big 12 as the toughest conference, on average, by a decent margin, with the ACC in second place. So Mr. Evans' assertion isn't quite as outlandish as you'd like to think.

budwom
01-20-2018, 01:56 PM
^ and Paul Sabin, the ESPN Analytics guy, took what he felt was an objective look and also came up with Big 12 #1, ACC #2, fwiw.

brlftz
01-20-2018, 02:01 PM
...Sagarin has the Big 12 as the toughest conference, on average, by a decent margin, with the ACC in second place. ...

I'm not trying to take a stand either way, but would like to point out that average ranking of teams in the conference isn't an argument against Oly's point, which is that the ACC's standing is depressed by the ACC having room for more crappy teams at the bottom due to being a bigger conference. If you look at the top 10 from each it might be a different story.

Wheat/"/"/"
01-20-2018, 02:56 PM
We all need to start paying attention to Purdue. That team is strong and balanced.

curtis325
01-20-2018, 02:59 PM
We all need to start paying attention to Perdue. That team is strong and balanced.

Too many fowls.

AGDukesky
01-20-2018, 03:11 PM
We all need to start paying attention to Purdue. That team is strong and balanced.

Purdue is almost dominating the Big Ten as badly as the ACC did in the Challenge...

budwom
01-20-2018, 03:40 PM
I'm not trying to take a stand either way, but would like to point out that average ranking of teams in the conference isn't an argument against Oly's point, which is that the ACC's standing is depressed by the ACC having room for more crappy teams at the bottom due to being a bigger conference. If you look at the top 10 from each it might be a different story.

I hear ya, and also don't take a stand either way, but Jason's original point (which drew a dramatic sigh from Oly) was that the Big12 is better, and I'm only noting that a few analytical geeks agree with him, arguments about the respective tops and bottoms of each league notwithstanding...in other words, his comment merited debate (IMHO) but not condescension.

On other matters we should feel free to approach Jason with condescension...:p

sagegrouse
01-20-2018, 03:49 PM
We definitely ended up with a favorable draw for our ACC schedule this season. Kind of the opposite of last season, which seemed brutal, though I can't verify that claim with data. I just remember it being a grueling schedule.

Yep, it was -- and, as a consequence, this year is far, far easier. We flip-flop home games from year to year. Plus, we played Miami and FSU twice last year,, therefore, we move to other teams for two games -- VT and Pitt, this year.

BandAlum83
01-20-2018, 03:55 PM
Watching ok/ok st.

Trae Young is the real deal. He looks like Curry out there. Right now he has 38/7/5. And 8/16 on 3pt

He does have 7 turnovers. Tight game down to the wire

mr shadow 008
01-20-2018, 04:32 PM
Watching ok/ok st.

Trae Young is the real deal. He looks like Curry out there. Right now he has 38/7/5. And 8/16 on 3pt

He does have 7 turnovers. Tight game down to the wire

Ended with 48 points and 8 assists but wanna take a wild guess as to how many shots he took??? He took 38! shots with 19 of those being three pointers. There are teams that don’t even take 19 threes a game.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-20-2018, 04:39 PM
Ended with 48 points and 8 assists but wanna take a wild guess as to how many shots he took??? He took 38! shots with 19 of those being three pointers. There are teams that don’t even take 19 threes a game.

Are we doing that thing again where we pretend that 48 points on 38 shots isn't really, really good?

Sincerely asking - I can't read the tone

mr shadow 008
01-20-2018, 04:51 PM
48 points is fantastic sure. There are many players in the country could score 48 in a game if they took 38 shots. How many points do you think Bagley would have in a game if he took 38 shots just curious? In Grayson’s 37 point game against msu wanna take a guess how many shots he took? He only took 20 that’s much more impressive to me than a 48 Point night while jacking up almost 40 shots.

arnie
01-20-2018, 04:57 PM
Are we doing that thing again where we pretend that 48 points on 38 shots isn't really, really good?

Sincerely asking - I can't read the tone

ESPN shows he made 14 of 39 shots. The 12 FTs distorts the points per shot attempt. He’s great, but 30 something % shooting isn’t great.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-20-2018, 05:06 PM
ESPN shows he made 14 of 39 shots. The 12 FTs distorts the points per shot attempt. He’s great, but 30 something % shooting isn’t great.

It isn't great, no. And it's a lot of shots. But it's also a lot of points.

If you shot 50% from the field for two pointers on 40 shots, you would have 40 points. By my rudimentary math, that's decent.

You don't score 50 points shooting 15 shots.

mr shadow 008
01-20-2018, 05:08 PM
ESPN shows he made 14 of 39 shots. The 12 FTs distorts the points per shot attempt. He’s great, but 30 something % shooting isn’t great.

Part of my point. Obviously free throws are part of the game and I commend him for hitting 12/12 from the line but you take those free throws away and he scores 36 on 39 shots. That’s the definition of inefficient.

Wander
01-24-2018, 10:28 AM
I think Trae Young won NPOY last night. He promised everyone he would make adjustments in his game after the two losses where he took 60 shots combined, and then actually followed through and scored 26 points on 9 shots in a win against Kansas. I'm sure OU will take a few more losses along the way, but with that kind of attitude from Trae Young I highly doubt they're going to fall apart to the point where he won't win it.

flyingdutchdevil
01-24-2018, 10:32 AM
I think Trae Young won NPOY last night. He promised everyone he would make adjustments in his game after the two losses where he took 60 shots combined, and then actually followed through and scored 26 points on 9 shots in a win against Kansas. I'm sure OU will take a few more losses along the way, but with that kind of attitude from Trae Young I highly doubt they're going to fall apart to the point where he won't win it.

Couple that with Marvin Bagley playing three games under his average, and it's safe to say Trae Young has widened the margin by a fair amount.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-24-2018, 10:52 AM
Couple that with Marvin Bagley playing three games under his average, and it's safe to say Trae Young has widened the margin by a fair amount.

Good thing there is still a LOT of ball to play, with more and more eyeballs for the next two months.

El_Diablo
01-24-2018, 01:52 PM
You don't score 50 points shooting 15 shots.

J.J. once came pretty close (40 points on 13 shots): http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=260280150

InSpades
01-24-2018, 02:03 PM
I think Trae Young won NPOY last night. He promised everyone he would make adjustments in his game after the two losses where he took 60 shots combined, and then actually followed through and scored 26 points on 9 shots in a win against Kansas. I'm sure OU will take a few more losses along the way, but with that kind of attitude from Trae Young I highly doubt they're going to fall apart to the point where he won't win it.

Not ready to give anyone an award in January but...

Super impressed w/ how Young adjusted from his past 2 games. It is impressive that he has shown he's able to carry almost the entire scoring load for his team... much more impressive when he realizes the team does better when he doesn't have to do that. To get your teammates involved, pick your spots and get a huge win over Kansas is much more impressive than scoring 48 in a losing effort. He's obviously super talented and if Marvin loses NPotY to him then so be it.

jimsumner
01-24-2018, 03:28 PM
Villanova loses Phil Booth to hand injury.

https://sports.yahoo.com/top-ranked-villanova-loses-phil-booth-indefinitely-fractured-shooting-hand-183114713.html

BD80
01-24-2018, 04:14 PM
Villanova loses Phil Booth to hand injury.

https://sports.yahoo.com/top-ranked-villanova-loses-phil-booth-indefinitely-fractured-shooting-hand-183114713.html


This is the third player this season that Villanova has lost to a fractured hand. Guard Collin Gillespie broke his hand in early December and returned last week against Georgetown. Forward Jermaine Samuels is still out after breaking his hand in late December.

Nova is to hands as Duke is to feet.

BigWayne
01-25-2018, 05:42 PM
At Kansas, they are getting unsolicited free throw advice from the fanbase. (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/for-petes-sake/article196577619.html)

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-25-2018, 07:53 PM
Good game between Michigan and Perdue

ipatent
01-25-2018, 07:55 PM
Good game between Michigan and Perdue

Purdue's center is a big man.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-25-2018, 08:22 PM
Both teams shooting 75% in the second half

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-25-2018, 10:44 PM
Michigan shot 60% for the game. And lost.

ipatent
01-25-2018, 10:46 PM
Purdue wasn't going to be denied tonight, they had an answer to every run. Good team.

BigWayne
01-26-2018, 01:08 AM
Penn State vs. Ohio State buzzer beater. (https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/956727880800587776)

Truth&Justise
01-26-2018, 10:27 AM
Penn State vs. Ohio State buzzer beater. (https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/956727880800587776)

What a finish! Love when the two biggest shots of the game happen a few seconds apart in real-time, with no timeouts or other interruptions.

Also, good job by the refs for not calling a foul on Bates-Diop's game-tying three. There was contact with the defender, but only because Bates-Diop splayed out his legs at a wild angle. I'm glad the Reggie Miller-rule is being respected.

quahog174
02-01-2018, 08:19 AM
http://www.wbtv.com/story/37388858/unc-charlotte-fans-alums-call-for-unc-chapel-hill-sign-to-be-moved-away-from-uncc-campus (http://www.wbtv.com/story/37388858/unc-charlotte-fans-alums-call-for-unc-chapel-hill-sign-to-be-moved-away-from-uncc-campus)

Don't know if anyone saw this but apparently UNC has paid for 8 signs to placed throughout NC at $2000/sign.

elvis14
02-01-2018, 09:17 AM
http://www.wbtv.com/story/37388858/unc-charlotte-fans-alums-call-for-unc-chapel-hill-sign-to-be-moved-away-from-uncc-campus (http://www.wbtv.com/story/37388858/unc-charlotte-fans-alums-call-for-unc-chapel-hill-sign-to-be-moved-away-from-uncc-campus)

Don't know if anyone saw this but apparently UNC has paid for 8 signs to placed throughout NC at $2000/sign.

I think all 8 should be removed....UNCheats. 9F

whereinthehellami
02-03-2018, 01:14 PM
KU down by 13 at the half. It is at KU so you got to expect that to be erased in the 2nd half. Still KU struggling at home is interesting.

ipatent
02-06-2018, 09:43 PM
Chris Collins' kids got a nice win against ranked Michigan tonight to pull to .500 in the conference.

DukeFanSince1990
02-07-2018, 07:51 PM
St John's has a 5 point lead over Villanova at the half. If the Johnie's pull it out it could be a huge help for Duke come selection time.

Troublemaker
02-07-2018, 07:58 PM
St John's has a 5 point lead over Villanova at the half. If the Johnie's pull it out it could be a huge help for Duke come selection time.

I don't think it would help all that much. They're still not going to be a tournament team unless they win the Big East tourney.

Pretty sure Villanova will come back and win, anyway.

chrishoke
02-07-2018, 08:01 PM
The game is at Villanova.

UrinalCake
02-07-2018, 08:01 PM
It would make a marginal difference in the computer rankings and a significant difference in the “eye test” when evaluating our team.

Troublemaker
02-07-2018, 08:38 PM
It would make a marginal difference in the computer rankings and a significant difference in the “eye test” when evaluating our team.

The eye test is just about how good we look when we play games.

I really think if the Johnnies hang on, this hurts Villanova more than it helps Duke in the selection committee's eyes.

Now, what it DOES do is help Duke fans feel better about the loss, and maybe we need some of that. Go SJU, I guess.

UrinalCake
02-07-2018, 09:14 PM
Wow, SJU pulls out the win. They kind of remind me of last year’s South Carolina team that was terrible all season but a switch flipped in the tourney. Thankfully this time we played them in a far less meaningful regular season game rather than in March.

richardjackson199
02-07-2018, 09:45 PM
I don't think it would help all that much. They're still not going to be a tournament team unless they win the Big East tourney.

Pretty sure Villanova will come back and win, anyway.

Nope. Folks on the DBR chat were saying the same thing about Duke even deep into the 2nd half last Saturday. But again, St. John's finished what they started.

This certainly makes our loss look better IMO. A loss in the semi-friendly confines of MSG to a team who had lost 11 in a row and hadn't won since Dec. 20 WAS inarguably a horrible loss.

Losing to a team who just beat Villanova on their home floor sounds a lot more respectable.

Duke was perceived as an inconsistent team with very suspect defense. How true that is remains to be seen.

Villanova was perceived as one of the most consistent teams, and until tonight, consensus best team in the nation.

St John's beat Nova at Nova. They beat us in New York City.

I still think we're a long shot for a 1 seed unless we win out, but this legitimizes our loss in the eyes of outside observers, like those who will be on the selection committee. Outside observer, Ryan Rusillo just tweeted, "Name a more dangerous 12-13 team...I'll wait."

Don't get me wrong, a win tomorrow is much better for Duke than this. But I think this result has significant value for Duke's perception, which matters.

Spanarkel
02-08-2018, 07:43 AM
Nope. Folks on the DBR chat were saying the same thing about Duke even deep into the 2nd half last Saturday. But again, St. John's finished what they started.

This certainly makes our loss look better IMO. A loss in the semi-friendly confines of MSG to a team who had lost 11 in a row and hadn't won since Dec. 20 WAS inarguably a horrible loss.

Losing to a team who just beat Villanova on their home floor sounds a lot more respectable.

Duke was perceived as an inconsistent team with very suspect defense. How true that is remains to be seen.

Villanova was perceived as one of the most consistent teams, and until tonight, consensus best team in the nation.

St John's beat Nova at Nova. They beat us in New York City.

I still think we're a long shot for a 1 seed unless we win out, but this legitimizes our loss in the eyes of outside observers, like those who will be on the selection committee. Outside observer, Ryan Rusillo just tweeted, "Name a more dangerous 12-13 team...I'll wait."

Don't get me wrong, a win tomorrow is much better for Duke than this. But I think this result has significant value for Duke's perception, which matters.

Impressive win for SJU, but 'Nova played without two of its top 6 last night(Booth/Paschall).

English
02-08-2018, 09:20 AM
Let's not overlook Purdue and Auburn losing on their home floors last night, too. Y'know, while we're making excuses for other teams, but marginalizing Duke's resume.

Spanarkel
02-08-2018, 11:17 AM
Let's not overlook Purdue and Auburn losing on their home floors last night, too. Y'know, while we're making excuses for other teams, but marginalizing Duke's resume.

I'm unsure how my stating that Villanova was without the services of two of its top 6 players minutes- and points-wise is either "making excuses for other teams" or "marginalizing Duke's resume."

English
02-08-2018, 11:25 AM
I'm unsure how my stating that Villanova was without the services of two of its top 6 players minutes- and points-wise is either "making excuses for other teams" or "marginalizing Duke's resume."

You're right--and it's true, Nova will get some slack from the Selection Committee for their absences. I didn't mean to single out your post.

My only (passive aggressive) point is that, frequently, folks around here are so quick to pick apart Duke's resume...our losses are worse, other contenders don't get the shade, other teams don't lose games they shouldn't, other teams' losses are more excusable because of this and that, etc. It's annoying because it's simply not true. We're much closer to our own program, but our season doesn't unfold in a vacuum, and it would be nice for folks to acknowledge that at times.

CDu
02-08-2018, 11:53 AM
You're right--and it's true, Nova will get some slack from the Selection Committee for their absences. I didn't mean to single out your post.

My only (passive aggressive) point is that, frequently, folks around here are so quick to pick apart Duke's resume...our losses are worse, other contenders don't get the shade, other teams don't lose games they shouldn't, other teams' losses are more excusable because of this and that, etc. It's annoying because it's simply not true. We're much closer to our own program, but our season doesn't unfold in a vacuum, and it would be nice for folks to acknowledge that at times.

But to be fair:
1. Villanova has one of these losses, we have 3 of them
2. Villanova's loss came without two key players for them

No, these other elite teams aren't infallible. But it seems like some folks are going to the other extreme and ignoring that we've had more hiccups already and/or assuming that we won't have any more hiccups the rest of the way.

Rich
02-08-2018, 01:56 PM
our season doesn't unfold in a vacuum, and it would be nice for folks to acknowledge that at times.

I acknowledge that UNCheat's season unfolds in a vacuum because, wait for it, THEY SUCK!

Thank you. I'm here all week!

English
02-08-2018, 02:54 PM
But to be fair:
1. Villanova has one of these losses, we have 3 of them
2. Villanova's loss came without two key players for them

No, these other elite teams aren't infallible. But it seems like some folks are going to the other extreme and ignoring that we've had more hiccups already and/or assuming that we won't have any more hiccups the rest of the way.

Other contenders identified--apologies for the aesthetically messy table (bad stuff bolded)...I didn't have time to put together complete resumes, but this is a start:
- Duke: loses to BC, NCSU, UVA, StJ; KenPom 5 (2 OE, 69 [NICE] DE); RPI 7
- Xavier: loses to Arizona St, Villanova, Providence; KenPom 14 (5 OE, 73 DE); RPI 2
- Auburn: loses to Temple, Alabama, TAMU; KenPom 10 (9 OE, 36 DE); RPI 9
- Kansas: loses to Washington, Ariz St., TTU, OK, OKSt; KenPom 11 (13 OE, 35 DE); RPI 6
- Purdue: loses to Tenn, Western KY, tOSU; KenPom 3 (3 OE, 13 DE); RPI 12
- MichSt: loses to Duke, tOSU, UM; KenPom 6 (10 OE, 10 DE); RPI 21
- Cincy: loses to Xavier, UF; KenPom 4 (54 OE, 2 DE); RPI 8

Others may rise, some may fall between now and SS.

gofurman
02-08-2018, 03:11 PM
You're right--and it's true, Nova will get some slack from the Selection Committee for their absences. I didn't mean to single out your post.

My only (passive aggressive) point is that, frequently, folks around here are so quick to pick apart Duke's resume...our losses are worse, other contenders don't get the shade, other teams don't lose games they shouldn't, other teams' losses are more excusable because of this and that, etc. It's annoying because it's simply not true. We're much closer to our own program, but our season doesn't unfold in a vacuum, and it would be nice for folks to acknowledge that at times.

isn't Booth gone for the year?

Troublemaker
02-08-2018, 03:12 PM
isn't Booth gone for the year?

Nope. Booth just has a broken hand. He'll be back in 2-3 weeks.