Favorite Player Poll- JWill vs. Tate Armstrong

[JasonEvans]

1. Jason Williams vs. 32. Tate Armstrong

--Jason "feel free to post your reasons for voting for either of these greats" Evans

[jlear]

Tate = 83 games played - 41 games started - 1304 pts - 217 assists
Jwill = 108 games played - 108 games started - 2079 pts - 644 assists

[bird]

JWill. My reason? Gone in 54 Seconds. We could use a thread/poll on greatest individual performances by a Duke player in a single game. That would be in my top ten. I still laugh every time I think about it.

[mapei]

JWill is the most explosive guard I have ever seen in college basketball. Case closed.

[Carlos]

J-Will could pitch a shutout here unless Tate's family shows up to vote.

[DukieInKansas]

J-Will could pitch a shutout here unless Tate's family shows up to vote.

My grandparents were Armstrongs - but no relation that I know of. Just thought he should get a vote.

(JWill vs MD is definitely a great memory!)

[trinity92]

and I'd probably take jason. He just had so much game, was so quick, such a great shooter and competitor.

[throatybeard]

I like Jason a lot too, but it's going to become clear pretty soon that "which of these two is your favorite" might as well be phrased "which of these two players played more recently?"

[merry]

Tate and I were in the same graduating class so I saw him play a lot and from about as good a seat as anyone would want (back when Duke wasn't very sucessful OR popular). So it kind of sucks to have to vote against him but JWill's probably in my top 2 favorite players ever.

[merry]

I like Jason a lot too, but it's going to become clear pretty soon that "which of these two is your favorite" might as well be phrased "which of these two players played more recently?"

Or "which of these two players played in the years 1998-2002".

[monkey]

Besides the numbers and all the exciting moments that JWill provided...

Besides the added bonus that his mom was (is?) an occassional DBR poster ...

JWill has represented the University with class both before he graduated and since he left, even in the face of some very trying circumstances.

[mapei]

I think the weighting toward recent players and the 1998-2002 teams is completely understandable. If the poll could involve "everyone who was a Duke fan at any time" rather than the current fan base, the results might be different.

Or maybe not. I think the guys who are getting the most votes are the ones with their jerseys in the rafters. They earned it.

[-jk]

Tate let me hold his gold medal when we met him at the airport. 'nuff said.

-jk

[elvis14]

Or "which of these two players played in the years 1998-2002".

I'll be the first to admit that I fall into the category of Duke fan that has very little knowledge of the team before 1998. I became a fan when Hurley was there.

[throatybeard]

I would suggest that everyone read Bill Brill's and Jim Sumner's books, particularly Bill's 1986 book.

[JasonEvans]

Or "which of these two players played in the years 1998-2002".

Then explain the performance of JD, Grant Hill, Laettner, and Bobby in this poll. That's 4 of the top 6 seeds from guys who graduated prior to 1995.

--Jason "I think a skewing towards the newer players is logical though as we get to see more games today than we did in the past" Evans

[throatybeard]

Or maybe not. I think the guys who are getting the most votes are the ones with their jerseys in the rafters. They earned it.

See, that's part of what I don't understand. We're voting for "favorite" not "best." But what has emerged here is that the very best players are most people's favorites.

I guess I just think differently. My favorite player on the team is rarely the top guy. My all time faves are Brickey, Davis and Wojo, the latter two particularly being known as tough, make-the-most-of-your-talent glue guys. I loved Carmen Wallace, who barely even got to start. Antonio Lang. John SMith. Those guys.

[devil84]

Both players are exceptional players. JWill is far more recent, and played in an era when nearly every game Duke played was on television and nearly everyone reading this board has seen him play.

Tate Armstrong played in an era when few games were televised, before ESPN was available. Many Duke fans reading this board were not even born yet.

My vote here is for Tate Armstrong. I moved to NC from Chicago, and started watching Duke Basketball. It was quite a culture shock to move from Chicago to NC between junior and senior high school, and Duke Basketball was one of the huge highlights for me. I remember watching Armstrong, Gminski, Spanarkel, Banks, and Dennard -- I'll spare you the long list of other players, but I remember them all. I wanted to go to Duke and be in the student section and cheer for them. (Who knew I'd be a team manager?!)

While JWill's a favorite, and certainly an excellent ambassador for the university, Tate Armstrong has my vote. Armstrong's a terrific athlete, an Olympic medalist, and was a fan favorite in his era. JWill came in when Duke was on top; Armstrong was a key to *getting* Duke Basketball on the map in the late 70s. And he was part of the key to getting ME to Duke. :) My vote's for Tate.

- della

[Indoor66]

Both players are exceptional players. JWill is far more recent, and played in an era when nearly every game Duke played was on television and nearly everyone reading this board has seen him play.

Tate Armstrong played in an era when few games were televised, before ESPN was available. Many Duke fans reading this board were not even born yet.

My vote here is for Tate Armstrong. I moved to NC from Chicago, and started watching Duke Basketball. It was quite a culture shock to move from Chicago to NC between junior and senior high school, and Duke Basketball was one of the huge highlights for me. I remember watching Armstrong, Gminski, Sparkle, Banks, and Denned -- I'll spare you the long list of other players, but I remember them all. I wanted to go to Duke and be in the student section and cheer for them. (Who knew I'd be a team manager?!)

While Jewell's a favorite, and certainly an excellent ambassador for the university, Tate Armstrong has my vote. Armstrong's a terrific athlete, an Olympic medalist, and was a fan favorite in his era. JWill came in when Duke was on top; Armstrong was a key to *getting* Duke Basketball on the map in the late 70s. And he was part of the key to getting ME to Duke. :) My vote's for Tate.

- Della

I agree with you and also voted for Tate. I have one disagreement: it should read: *getting* Duke Basketball BACK on the map

[VaDukie]

See, that's part of what I don't understand. We're voting for "favorite" not "best." But what has emerged here is that the very best players are most people's favorites.

I guess I just think differently. My favorite player on the team is rarely the top guy. My all time faves are Brickey, Davis and Wojo, the latter two particularly being known as tough, make-the-most-of-your-talent glue guys. I loved Carmen Wallace, who barely even got to start. Antonio Lang. John SMith. Those guys.

I think it would be interesting to do a list with all 'glue guy' type players - Lang, Dockery, Casey, Davis, etc.

[blazindw]

Was at Duke with the guy...almost half of my memories of Duke basketball while I was there have him holding the ball at one point. I will never forget where I was for "Gone in 54", and that alone puts him over the top in this poll.

[johnb]

The poll is fun, but it is awfully tough to tease 'favorite' from 'best' from 'best human interest story' from 'most important to Duke as we know it today' from 'from favorite all american' from 'favorite who never made an all acc team' from 'player who did most with least' from 'player who had a great shot/dunk/block' from 'player with whom we once drank a beer' from 'player with whom we'd most like to have a beer.'

To address the ambiguity, we could tease out a half dozen key variables (best, best human interest story, etc), vote based on age (to mitigate against the youth of today forgetting about the giants of the past), highlight pertinent photos and nominate campaign chairmen, create a hall of fame for each variable, and then re-vote every year after more informatiopn is uncovered.

Or we could--finally--get the seasons started.

[Jarhead]

A broken hand (wrist?) in the middle of what was going to be a big season was Tate's downfall. He was a tremendous player, and never achieved the greatness he deserved. Jason did achieve his greatness while at Duke, but a mistaken ride on a motorcycle was his downfall. I voted for Jason, but were I a coach, I would take them both.

[killerleft]

I'll vote for Tate, just because he was a very bright light on teams that certainly needed one. JWill gets my other vote.

[Jarhead]

I agree with you and also voted for Tate. I have one disagreement: it should read: *getting* Duke Basketball BACK on the map
That's right. Seems devil84 has no recollection of the Vic Bubas years. He was the prototype model for Coach K. From the history books, Eddie Cameron was no slouch either. Duke didn't rise to the college top four in wins on the K record alone.

I wish I had the opportunity to vote for both Tate and Jason.

[jma4life]

When looking at a current team, I always tend to love the glue guys or minor stars. Dockery and Nate James were two of my favorites.

That said you have to love Williams.

[Bob Green]

Tate Armstrong - he won the Gold Medal.

[SilkyJ]

This one's done. NEEEEEXXXT!!

[merry]

I will never forget where I was for "Gone in 54"...

Me neither, since I was in Cole Field House with a friend who is a Maryland fan :eek:

Still, I think I am a little surprised that everyone's "favorites" are the ones who were the best players. I'll admit to my top two being JWill and Jim Spanarkel but if I went beyond the top 2 or 3 we'd be dipping in to Dockery territory.

[jipops]

I lived next door to Tate for a couple years when I was younger. An incredibly nice guy. I kick myself that I never actually asked to see his gold medal from the Olympics, I didn't want to intrude and I was a bit shy from being in awe as a kid.

So I have to give Tate my vote.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I love both guys. I casually knew Tate - he was a year behind me in school and was the first bball player I knew at all. He'd say hi to me when we passed on the quad - and yes, that's as well as we knew each other.

I'll vote for Jason in the next round, but had to give Tate his props this time.

[wags78]

Of course JWill will win this contest but Tate played when Duke BBall was decidedly uncool(73-77). The poor guy was recruited by Bucky Waters, had an interim in Neil McGeachy(sp?), and ended up with finally with Bill Foster. He had nobody and I mean nobody to play with, especially his senior year after Willie Hodge departed. Cameron, for some games was half full. I can say with cetainty that a lot of us showed up for games to follow a certain cheerleader by the name of Lynn Vanderwist. To this day, she is the most attractive cheerleader Duke ever had.
Anyway, Tate had the sweetest J I have ever seen. When he was healthy, he was money from anywhere on the court. The problem, since he only had guys like Terry Chile(think Zoubek minus the quickness, if that's possible) to play with, was constant double coverage. JWill had other guys to take the pressure off him. Not to criticize JWill, but his J was not always on--his quickness never left him, however.
Based on context, and my own two eyes(no TV in that time), I vote Tate.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Of course JWill will win this contest but Tate played when Duke BBall was decidedly uncool(73-77). The poor guy was recruited by Bucky Waters, had an interim in Neil McGeachy(sp?), and ended up with finally with Bill Foster. He had nobody and I mean nobody to play with, especially his senior year after Willie Hodge departed. Cameron, for some games was half full. I can say with cetainty that a lot of us showed up for games to follow a certain cheerleader by the name of Lynn Vanderwist. To this day, she is the most attractive cheerleader Duke ever had.
Anyway, Tate had the sweetest J I have ever seen.

Everything you said, except I might vote for Vicki Bubas. As tough as choosing between JWill and Tate. They were roommates in the ground floor corner room facing the first back parking lot, weren't they? :D

Oh, Tate did get to play two years with Jim Spanarkel, so he did have someone pretty good to play with. And when Jimmy comes up against another great player, I'll vote for Jimmy, hands down.

[77devil]

I like Jason a lot too, but it's going to become clear pretty soon that "which of these two is your favorite" might as well be phrased "which of these two players played more recently?"

Maybe so, perhaps even probably, but this is not the pair on which to advance the argument. JWill is arguably one of the best ever. Tate never met a jump shot he didn't like even with a teammate uncontested under the basket.

[gotoguy]

He looked like he coulda been a great surfer. He and JWill both played for my favorite Bulls. Since I saw him play live, I'll vote for Tate.

[Wander]

Anyone want to take an over/under bet on how many of these poll threads will have an older poster whining about the vote being weighted toward more recent players?

I'm not going to vote in any of these out of protest for Greg Paulus not making the field.

[throatybeard]

Maybe so, perhaps even probably, but this is not the pair on which to advance the argument. JWill is arguably one of the best ever. Tate never met a jump shot he didn't like even with a teammate uncontested under the basket.

Again, best does not equal favorite. Except for some people.

[Son of Jarhead]

Agreed, Jarhead. I wouldn't mind having either one.

If I recall correctly, Tate broke his wrist... & he scored something like 44 points in the game in which he broke his wrist (at UVA?), most after the injury. The season that could have been...

[merry]

Anyone want to take an over/under bet on how many of these poll threads will have an older poster whining about the vote being weighted toward more recent players?

Hey! Just because he has a beard doesn't mean throaty is old!

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Anyone want to take an over/under bet on how many of these poll threads will have an older poster whining about the vote being weighted toward more recent players?

I'm not going to vote in any of these out of protest for Greg Paulus not making the field.

Who knows? Paulus can still become everybody's darling. In fact, with every year that passes we can all have brand new all time faves. Fun thought.

Love, Ima

[Wander]

There are 16 of these polls initially, right? I think the over/under on how many of them contain a post whining in any form about picking more recent players should be set at 12. And I'll take the over (it's 2 of 2 so far).

[throatybeard]

Hey! Just because he has a beard doesn't mean throaty is old!

I'm quite the spring chicken. :)

Actually, as I think I mentioned on a another board, the time is fast approaching when the beard will be half as old as I am.

[Bostondevil]

Somehow I missed this one! My love for Tate will never diminish. There should be one more vote for him.

[chrishoke]

Somehow I missed this one! My love for Tate will never diminish. There should be one more vote for him.

Make that 2 votes. Tate is an all time fav. He was a ray of hope in a dismal time for duke BB - on top of that, I was attending UNC during hisw reign. SWEET TATER!

[Indoor66]

Tate was a hero when Duke really, really needed a hero. He was a great bballer and fun to watch. Floppy hair and all.