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Reilly
11-06-2017, 10:14 PM
Theacc.com bowl tie-ins graphic:

http://www.theacc.com/sports/2017/8/28/FB_0828173607.aspx

Wikipedia usually does a good job of keeping track of who's eligible:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%9318_NCAA_football_bowl_games


Pecking order right now

Miami 8-0 (6-0) ... ND, UVA, @Pitt

Clemson 8-1 (6-1) ... FSU, Citadel, @SoCar
Notre Dame 8-1 ... @Miami, Navy, @Stanford

VT 7-2 (3-2) ... @GT, Pitt, @UVA

NCSU 6-3 (4-1) ... @BC, @WFU, UNC
UVA 6-3 (3-2) ... @Lville, @Miami, VT

------------------------------------

BC 5-4 (3-3) ... NCSU, UConn, @Syr
WFU 5-4 (2-3) ... @Syr, NCSU, Duke
Lville 5-4 (2-4) ... UVA, Syr, @Kentucky

GT 4-4 (3-3) ... VT, @Duke, Georgia

Syr 4-5 (2-3) ... WFU, @Lville, BC
Pitt 4-5 (2-3) ... UNC, @VT, Miami
Duke 4-5 (1-5) ... @Army, GT, @WFU

FSU 3-5 (3-4) ... @Clemson, Delaware State, @Florida

--------------------------------------

UNC 1-8 (0-6) ... @Pitt, Western Carolina, @NCSU

Bob Green
11-07-2017, 04:52 AM
There is a lot of work left to do to achieve bowl game eligibility but I like our chances with two of three remaining opponents running the triple option offense. The run defense has been mostly solid this season with the exception of giving up a few explosive TD runs. The defense should keep us in the game so if the bye week allowed the offense to rediscover itself we should be okay. Yes, I remain optimistic.

Reilly
11-07-2017, 07:36 AM
How are the cancelled games figuring into a team's bowl eligibility? GT is 4-4. I guess I'd like to see them get destroyed/demoralized by VT this week, leaving them 4-5 w/ only Duke and UGA left, and they just pack it in figuring they won't beat UGA (but of course they'd like nothing better than to beat UGA and ruin their great season).

BD80
11-07-2017, 07:43 AM
So we survived Bye with bowl game aspirations intact?

left_hook_lacey
11-07-2017, 09:06 AM
There is a lot of work left to do to achieve bowl game eligibility but I like our chances with two of three remaining opponents running the triple option offense. The run defense has been mostly solid this season with the exception of giving up a few explosive TD runs. The defense should keep us in the game so if the bye week allowed the offense to rediscover itself we should be okay. Yes, I remain optimistic.

The offense struggled to put points on the board during the bye week. I hope that changes v. Army.

JasonEvans
11-07-2017, 09:32 AM
The offense struggled to put points on the board during the bye week. I hope that changes v. Army.

Yeah, but the D pitched a shut out!


So we survived Bye with bowl game aspirations intact?

Bye is undefeated. No one ever beats them.

AustinDevil
11-07-2017, 09:49 AM
How are the cancelled games figuring into a team's bowl eligibility? GT is 4-4. I guess I'd like to see them get destroyed/demoralized by VT this week, leaving them 4-5 w/ only Duke and UGA left, and they just pack it in figuring they won't beat UGA (but of course they'd like nothing better than to beat UGA and ruin their great season).

I know no one is ever excited about going to a bowl with a losing record, but if Ga Tech has a decent APR then their season is not necessarily over at 5-6. And I wonder if some sort of win-percentage approach puts them above the 5-7 teams, given their canceled game?

Reilly
11-08-2017, 07:23 AM
I haven't seen any bowl projections listing Duke, but haven't looked at all that many.

Here's one projection: https://sports.yahoo.com/week-11-bowl-projections-notre-132825812.html

Will be interesting to see if folks get on the Duke bandwagon after a win this weekend at Army!

duke2x
11-09-2017, 10:37 PM
I have my own bowl vigil going and have a question for you all. Which set of APR do they use for 5-7 teams? It really matters.

In the one published this week, Duke is #1 for 5-7 teams. Duke is tied for #2 but the tied teams are bowling.
In the one from last year, Duke is tied with Vandy for #3 in 5-7 teams behind Air Force (ahead of us) and MN (technically tied with Duke but would get picked first due to school size).

There are currently 60 teams fighting for 30 bowl slots as of last Saturday. Once a team has 7 losses or 6 wins, it disappears off that list.

Reilly
11-09-2017, 11:22 PM
Duke moves up to 12, UNC stays at 15, due to UNC win.

Pecking order right now

Miami 8-0 (6-0) ... ND, UVA, @Pitt

Clemson 8-1 (6-1) ... FSU, Citadel, @SoCar
Notre Dame 8-1 ... @Miami, Navy, @Stanford

VT 7-2 (3-2) ... @GT, Pitt, @UVA

NCSU 6-3 (4-1) ... @BC, @WFU, UNC
UVA 6-3 (3-2) ... @Lville, @Miami, VT

------------------------------------

BC 5-4 (3-3) ... NCSU, UConn, @Syr
WFU 5-4 (2-3) ... @Syr, NCSU, Duke
Lville 5-4 (2-4) ... UVA, Syr, @Kentucky

GT 4-4 (3-3) ... VT, @Duke, Georgia

Syr 4-5 (2-3) ... WFU, @Lville, BC
Duke 4-5 (1-5) ... @Army, GT, @WFU

Pitt 4-6 (2-4) ... @VT, Miami

FSU 3-5 (3-4) ... @Clemson, Delaware State, @Florida

--------------------------------------

UNC 2-8 (1-6) ... Western Carolina, @NCSU

MarkD83
11-10-2017, 05:17 PM
Go Duke Beat Army and then Wake or GT!!!

TruBlu
11-10-2017, 05:48 PM
Go Duke Beat Army and then Wake or GT!!!

All three!

Reilly
11-11-2017, 10:02 PM
Pecking order right now

Miami 8-0 (6-0) ... ND, UVA, @Pitt

Clemson 9-1 (7-1) ... Citadel, @SoCar

Notre Dame 8-1 ... @Miami, Navy, @Stanford

NCSU 7-3 (5-1) ... @WFU, UNC
VT 7-3 (3-3) ... Pitt, @UVA

UVA 6-4 (3-3) ... @Miami, VT
WFU 6-4 (3-3) ... NCSU, Duke
Lville 6-4 (3-4) ... Syr, @Kentucky

------------------------------------

GT 5-4 (3-3) ... @Duke, Georgia

BC 5-5 (3-4) ... UConn, @Syr

Syr 4-6 (2-4) ... @Lville, BC
Pitt 4-6 (2-4) ... @VT, Miami
Duke 4-6 (1-5) ... GT, @WFU

FSU 3-6 (3-5) ... Delaware State, @Florida

--------------------------------------

UNC 2-8 (1-6) ... Western Carolina, @NCSU

Reilly
11-12-2017, 06:58 AM
Pecking order right now

Miami 9-0 (6-0) ... UVA, @Pitt

Clemson 9-1 (7-1) ... Citadel, @SoCar

Notre Dame 8-2 ... Navy, @Stanford

NCSU 7-3 (5-1) ... @WFU, UNC
VT 7-3 (3-3) ... Pitt, @UVA

UVA 6-4 (3-3) ... @Miami, VT
WFU 6-4 (3-3) ... NCSU, Duke
Lville 6-4 (3-4) ... Syr, @Kentucky

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

GT 5-4 (4-3) ... @Duke, Georgia

BC 5-5 (3-4) ... UConn, @Syr

Syr 4-6 (2-4) ... @Lville, BC
Pitt 4-6 (2-4) ... @VT, Miami
Duke 4-6 (1-5) ... GT, @WFU

FSU 3-6 (3-5) ... Delaware State, @Florida, LAMonroe

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

UNC 2-8 (1-6) ... Western Carolina, @NCSU

Reilly
11-14-2017, 03:50 PM
USA Today bowl projections: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2017/11/14/bowl-projections-oklahoma-ohio-state-back-in-college-football-playoff-field/857894001/

128 of the 130 teams had a chance to bowl this year.

Right now, 59 have 6 wins. There are 39 bowls/78 teams who will get an invite.

duke2x
11-15-2017, 12:17 AM
USA Today bowl projections: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2017/11/14/bowl-projections-oklahoma-ohio-state-back-in-college-football-playoff-field/857894001/

128 of the 130 teams had a chance to bowl this year.

Right now, 59 have 6 wins. There are 39 bowls/78 teams who will get an invite.

...which means there are roughly 45 teams (including Duke) that can take those 19 slots.

Reilly
11-18-2017, 07:13 PM
Miami 10-0 (7-0) ... @Pitt

Clemson 10-1 (7-1) ... @SoCar

Notre Dame 9-2 ... @Stanford

VT 8-3 (4-3) ... @UVA

NCSU 7-3 (5-1) ... @WFU, UNC

Lville 7-4 (4-4) ... @Kentucky

WFU 6-4 (3-3) ... NCSU, Duke

UVA 6-5 (3-4) ... VT

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

GT 5-5 (4-4) ... Georgia
BC 5-5 (3-4) ... UConn, @Syr

Duke 5-6 (2-5) ... @WFU

FSU 4-6 (3-5) ... @Florida, LAMonroe

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pitt 4-7 (2-5) ... Miami
Syr 4-7 (2-5) ... BC

UNC 3-8 (1-6) ... @NCSU

Faison1
11-18-2017, 07:25 PM
Wow! If they can pull of a win against WFU, I will be so impressed and psyched!!

Stopping the bleeding on a 6 game losing streak, and somehow getting to a bowl would mark an incredibly successful season, IMHO.

Reilly
11-18-2017, 10:53 PM
Miami 10-0 (7-0) ... @Pitt

Clemson 10-1 (7-1) ... @SoCar

Notre Dame 9-2 ... @Stanford

VT 8-3 (4-3) ... @UVA

NCSU 7-4 (5-2) ... UNC
WFU 7-4 (4-3) ... Duke
Lville 7-4 (4-4) ... @Kentucky

BC 6-5 (3-4) ... @Syr
UVA 6-5 (3-4) ... VT

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

GT 5-5 (4-4) ... Georgia

Duke 5-6 (2-5) ... @WFU

FSU 4-6 (3-5) ... @Florida, LAMonroe

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pitt 4-7 (2-5) ... Miami
Syr 4-7 (2-5) ... BC

UNC 3-8 (1-6) ... @NCSU

OldPhiKap
11-19-2017, 07:21 AM
I bet that Tech regrets not rescheduling the game that was cancelled for Hurricane Irma. Absent a surprise win over UGA, they lost a sure win and thus will likely end 5-6.

Devil549
11-19-2017, 08:07 AM
IMO no 5 win teams go bowling this yet need to beat WF.

WF playing well right now 2 big wins last 2 weeks.....staff have their work cut out for them.

GO DUKE!!!!!

Papa John
11-19-2017, 08:18 AM
I bet that Tech regrets not rescheduling the game that was cancelled for Hurricane Irma. Absent a surprise win over UGA, they lost a sure win and thus will likely end 5-6.

A sure win? Their cancellation was current #14 and still unbeaten UCF. I'd pick UCF in that matchup, particularly if it were a road game for Tech.

OldPhiKap
11-19-2017, 08:24 AM
A sure win? Their cancellation was current #14 and still unbeaten UCF. I'd pick UCF in that matchup, particularly if it were a road game for Tech.

In that case, I wish they had played and were 5-6!

I was thinking they had a different Florida team but thanks for the correction. Either way, hard to believe that we have a better chance of bowling than Tech this year given our slide.

hudlow
11-19-2017, 10:06 AM
Thirty nine bowls these days...?

I remember, back in the old days, when there were only 4 or 5 and we had to walk up hill both ways in a blizzard, barefoot to get to them.

I do hope Duke makes the cut and gets a bid.

But, a national playoff system seems in order...(if the traditional powers ain't skeered).

hud

OldPhiKap
11-19-2017, 10:29 AM
Thirty nine bowls these days...?

I remember, back in the old days, when there were only 4 or 5 and we had to walk up hill both ways in a blizzard, barefoot to get to them.

I do hope Duke makes the cut and gets a bid.

But, a national playoff system seems in order...(if the traditional powers ain't skeered).

hud

IIRC, both teams played the ‘42 Rose Bowl in Wallace Wade without shoes or even leather helmets to pitch in for the war effort.

THAT was when America was great, my friend.

Papa John
11-19-2017, 10:39 AM
IIRC, both teams played the ‘42 Rose Bowl in Wallace Wade without shoes or even leather helmets to pitch in for the war effort.

THAT was when America was great, my friend.

Back then, when there was no meat, we ate fowl... and when there was no fowl, we ate crawdad... and when there was no crawdad to be found, we ate sand...

Faison1
11-19-2017, 11:03 AM
back then, when there was no meat, we ate fowl... And when there was no fowl, we ate crawdad... And when there was no crawdad to be found, we ate sand...

7819

You ate sand?!?!

SCMatt33
11-19-2017, 11:20 AM
IMO no 5 win teams go bowling this yet need to beat WF.

WF playing well right now 2 big wins last 2 weeks....staff have their work cut out for them.

GO DUKE!!!!!

I agree with this assessment. There are 8 slots left to be claimed and 18 eligible 5 win teams including Duke, plus Air Force at 4 wins, who would pass us on APR with a 5th win. Out of those 18 teams, there are 4 games with two 5 win teams (Indiana Purdue, MTSU ODU, UCLA Cal, and Utah Colorado). With those guaranteed to have one in and one out, we're left with 11 teams (including Duke and Air Force) for 4 spots. Should Duke lose, we would need 7 of the other 10 to lose as well. Unfortunately for Duke, Temple, UNLV, and Louisiana Layfayette all play opponents with 2 or fewer wins. On the plus side, Georgia Tech, Minnesota and Buffalo all play 8 plus win opponents. Assuming none of those games produces an upset, That would leave one remaining spot. We would then need Tulane, Texas Tech, Louisiana Tech, and Air Force to all lose to 6 win opponents in order to sneak in.

Doesn't seem likely so it's probably beat Wake or stay home for a second straight year.

SCMatt33
11-19-2017, 12:31 PM
I agree with this assessment. There are 8 slots left to be claimed and 18 eligible 5 win teams including Duke, plus Air Force at 4 wins, who would pass us on APR with a 5th win. Out of those 18 teams, there are 4 games with two 5 win teams (Indiana Purdue, MTSU ODU, UCLA Cal, and Utah Colorado). With those guaranteed to have one in and one out, we're left with 11 teams (including Duke and Air Force) for 4 spots. Should Duke lose, we would need 7 of the other 10 to lose as well. Unfortunately for Duke, Temple, UNLV, and Louisiana Layfayette all play opponents with 2 or fewer wins. On the plus side, Georgia Tech, Minnesota and Buffalo all play 8 plus win opponents. Assuming none of those games produces an upset, That would leave one remaining spot. We would then need Tulane, Texas Tech, Louisiana Tech, and Air Force to all lose to 6 win opponents in order to sneak in.

Doesn't seem likely so it's probably beat Wake or stay home for a second straight year.

Apologies for the double post. It appears that Minnesota might hold a tiebreaker over us for APR as well (the list I looked at just had us ahead alphabetically) so that would mean we'd not those four teams to all lose PLUS and upset by one of the 2 or fewer win teams, so yeah, we ain't getting in with 5.

duke2x
11-19-2017, 01:19 PM
My quick count was 22 teams for the remaining spots, but I agree with the conclusion: win or stay home. A couple things to add:

Just in case 5-7 matters, if we use the old APR list, Duke and MN have clinched 5-7 bowl eligibility. Air Force and Vandy are 4-7 and can get to 5-7. If we use the new list, Duke is #1.

The ACC has 8 teams for 9 slots. This assumes ND does not get an ACC slot and Miami/Clemson does not get a NY6 spot. FSU, Duke, and GT are competing for that last slot. Go UGA and UF.

I could see Duke going as high as the Military Bowl at 6-6. Wake went to the Military Bowl last year, and the 2nd tier should want 6-5 UVA over Wake/BC.

FYI-- GT was @UCF. There is little chance they would win a makeup game based on what I saw last night from the Wreck.

DU82
11-19-2017, 03:56 PM
My quick count was 22 teams for the remaining spots, but I agree with the conclusion: win or stay home. A couple things to add:

Just in case 5-7 matters, if we use the old APR list, Duke and MN have clinched 5-7 bowl eligibility. Air Force and Vandy are 4-7 and can get to 5-7. If we use the new list, Duke is #1.

The ACC has 8 teams for 9 slots. This assumes ND does not get an ACC slot and Miami/Clemson does not get a NY6 spot. FSU, Duke, and GT are competing for that last slot. Go UGA and UF.

I could see Duke going as high as the Military Bowl at 6-6. Wake went to the Military Bowl last year, and the 2nd tier should want 6-5 UVA over Wake/BC.

FYI-- GT was @UCF. There is little chance they would win a makeup game based on what I saw last night from the Wreck.

Let's see if I have this correct. Here's the ACC Bowl flow chart: http://theacc.com/sports/2017/8/28/FB_0828173607.aspx

Notre Dame will be in a NY6 bowl if they beat Stanford (not an easy task.)

One ACC team will be in the Orange Bowl. Even if Miami and Clemson win next week and then Clemson wins the ACC in a tight game, I don't think both will be in the playoffs unless Oklahoma and/or Wisconsin slips. So the loser of the ACC championship will likely go to the Orange Bowl. (I'm assuming that one ACC team will be in the playoffs regardless.) That's teams 1 and 2.

If the ACC gets a B1G team in the Orange Bowl, then the Citrus Bowl opens up for team number 3 from the ACC. Otherwise, team number 3 goes to Orlando to play in the Camping World Bowl instead. Let's assume that doesn't happen.

Teams 4-7 go to the tier one bowls. I'd say NC State and Louisville are locks for this tier. Wake with 7 wins (assume they lose to Duke; otherwise this thread will go away) would likely be in this tier as well.

That leaves one team from the 6 win bunch to move up. If BC or UVa wins then they have 7 wins, and would likely move up. Although a 6 win FSU team might be more attractive. Let's assume BC wins (most likely scenario) and they move up.

That leaves Duke, UVa, FSU for the 3 tier two games, Independence, Military and Quick Lane. That probably puts us in Detroit (FSU to Shreveport, UVa to Annapolis.)

IF both Miami/Clemson make the playoffs, a B1G team goes to the Orange Bowl opening up the Citrus, AND FSU loses in the Swamp, then the ACC wouldn't be able to fill any tier 2 bowl. And if this doesn't happen, and Notre Dame loses to Stanford and takes an ACC bowl slot, then one ACC team falls to the secondary bowls, the Bad Boy Mowers Gasparilla Bowl (St. Petersburg) and Birmingham Bowl.

Of course, the only thing at this time is to beat Wake!

Reilly
11-19-2017, 07:33 PM
Let's see if I have this correct. Here's the ACC Bowl flow chart: http://theacc.com/sports/2017/8/28/FB_0828173607.aspx

Notre Dame will be in a NY6 bowl if they beat Stanford (not an easy task.)

One ACC team will be in the Orange Bowl. Even if Miami and Clemson win next week and then Clemson wins the ACC in a tight game, I don't think both will be in the playoffs unless Oklahoma and/or Wisconsin slips. So the loser of the ACC championship will likely go to the Orange Bowl. (I'm assuming that one ACC team will be in the playoffs regardless.) That's teams 1 and 2.

If the ACC gets a B1G team in the Orange Bowl, then the Citrus Bowl opens up for team number 3 from the ACC. Otherwise, team number 3 goes to Orlando to play in the Camping World Bowl instead. Let's assume that doesn't happen.

Teams 4-7 go to the tier one bowls. I'd say NC State and Louisville are locks for this tier. Wake with 7 wins (assume they lose to Duke; otherwise this thread will go away) would likely be in this tier as well.

That leaves one team from the 6 win bunch to move up. If BC or UVa wins then they have 7 wins, and would likely move up. Although a 6 win FSU team might be more attractive. Let's assume BC wins (most likely scenario) and they move up.

That leaves Duke, UVa, FSU for the 3 tier two games, Independence, Military and Quick Lane. That probably puts us in Detroit (FSU to Shreveport, UVa to Annapolis.)

IF both Miami/Clemson make the playoffs, a B1G team goes to the Orange Bowl opening up the Citrus, AND FSU loses in the Swamp, then the ACC wouldn't be able to fill any tier 2 bowl. And if this doesn't happen, and Notre Dame loses to Stanford and takes an ACC bowl slot, then one ACC team falls to the secondary bowls, the Bad Boy Mowers Gasparilla Bowl (St. Petersburg) and Birmingham Bowl.

Of course, the only thing at this time is to beat Wake!

I, for one, am glad you did those practice SAT tests about Suzy, Bill, Jane, and Fred going to the movies, and who sat next to who.

DU82
11-19-2017, 08:32 PM
I, for one, am glad you did those practice SAT tests about Suzy, Bill, Jane, and Fred going to the movies, and who sat next to who.

Engineer OCD. :)

sagegrouse
11-19-2017, 09:24 PM
I, for one, am glad you did those practice SAT tests about Suzy, Bill, Jane, and Fred going to the movies, and who sat next to who.

I believe you meant "whom," although some people tell me that this particular pronoun is going the way of the dodo.

Reilly
11-19-2017, 10:02 PM
I believe you meant "whom," although some people tell me that this particular pronoun is going the way of the dodo.

No, I meant 'who' -- considered 'whom' and rejected it. I'm looking to take it to stage 3: http://www.lawprose.org/garners-usage-tip-of-the-day-who-whom-2/

Reilly
11-20-2017, 07:55 AM
Dec 27 in Shreveport against WKY:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/college/college-gridiron-365/os-sp-college-football-bowl-projections-2017-htmlstory.html

JetpackJesus
11-20-2017, 06:35 PM
Let's see if I have this correct. Here's the ACC Bowl flow chart: http://theacc.com/sports/2017/8/28/FB_0828173607.aspx

Notre Dame will be in a NY6 bowl if they beat Stanford (not an easy task.)

One ACC team will be in the Orange Bowl. Even if Miami and Clemson win next week and then Clemson wins the ACC in a tight game, I don't think both will be in the playoffs unless Oklahoma and/or Wisconsin slips. So the loser of the ACC championship will likely go to the Orange Bowl. (I'm assuming that one ACC team will be in the playoffs regardless.) That's teams 1 and 2.

If the ACC gets a B1G team in the Orange Bowl, then the Citrus Bowl opens up for team number 3 from the ACC. Otherwise, team number 3 goes to Orlando to play in the Camping World Bowl instead. Let's assume that doesn't happen.

Teams 4-7 go to the tier one bowls. I'd say NC State and Louisville are locks for this tier. Wake with 7 wins (assume they lose to Duke; otherwise this thread will go away) would likely be in this tier as well.

That leaves one team from the 6 win bunch to move up. If BC or UVa wins then they have 7 wins, and would likely move up. Although a 6 win FSU team might be more attractive. Let's assume BC wins (most likely scenario) and they move up.

That leaves Duke, UVa, FSU for the 3 tier two games, Independence, Military and Quick Lane. That probably puts us in Detroit (FSU to Shreveport, UVa to Annapolis.)

IF both Miami/Clemson make the playoffs, a B1G team goes to the Orange Bowl opening up the Citrus, AND FSU loses in the Swamp, then the ACC wouldn't be able to fill any tier 2 bowl. And if this doesn't happen, and Notre Dame loses to Stanford and takes an ACC bowl slot, then one ACC team falls to the secondary bowls, the Bad Boy Mowers Gasparilla Bowl (St. Petersburg) and Birmingham Bowl.

Of course, the only thing at this time is to beat Wake!

You had me going until I got to the bold. But now I know you're just making stuff up.

j/k: Nice work. Very helpful post. Bowl names just keep getting more and more ridiculous.

throatybeard
11-20-2017, 06:50 PM
I just talk about them by the city they're in if it isn't one of the established ones. And sometimes even if it is.

duke79
11-20-2017, 08:15 PM
Dec 27 in Shreveport against WKY:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/college/college-gridiron-365/os-sp-college-football-bowl-projections-2017-htmlstory.html

Looking at that list of bowl games, am I the only one who thinks there may be TOO MANY bowls?? And, not to be negative, but how can you lose six games in a row AND go to post-season bowl game??

Bob Green
11-20-2017, 08:21 PM
And, not to be negative, but how can you lose six games in a row AND go to post-season bowl game??

By winning the other six games. ;) Seriously, it is all about the TV $$$$$.

curtis325
11-20-2017, 08:22 PM
Looking at that list of bowl games, am I the only one who thinks there may be TOO MANY bowls?? And, not to be negative, but how can you lose six games in a row AND go to post-season bowl game??

By winning the other six?

Or is it a trick question?

duke79
11-20-2017, 08:35 PM
By winning the other six games. ;) Seriously, it is all about the TV $$$$$.

LOL, no, I understand the reality here.(And I was being somewhat sarcastic) It IS being driven by the TV dollars. But I wonder, are there really a lot of people out there who are dying to watch a Western Kentucky/Duke football game on TV? Can you really get enough for the TV ads to cover the production costs and payments to the bowl for the TV rights?

Don't get me wrong....I'd love to see Duke go to a bowl. But I'm still amazed you can lose six games in a row and play in the post-season. Admittedly, I came of age in an era when only a few top teams went to bowl games.

Reilly
11-20-2017, 08:50 PM
... how can you lose six games in a row AND go to post-season bowl game??

Practice, practice ... the same route as to Carnegie Hall.

DU82
11-20-2017, 10:04 PM
You had me going until I got to the bold. But now I know you're just making stuff up.

j/k: Nice work. Very helpful post. Bowl names just keep getting more and more ridiculous.

I couldn’t read the name on the logo shown on the ACC page, so I pulled the name from ESPN’s list. Once I saw it, I had to post the full name. Still don’t know what the heck it is.

JasonEvans
11-21-2017, 01:25 PM
Admittedly, I came of age in an era when only a few top teams went to bowl games.

I am gonna guess that Duke79 implies that you "came of age" in the 70s. There were generally about 15 bowl games per year back in that era. There are around 40 now.

ESPN could solve a lot of this by saying they will not televise any bowl game that features a team that does not have a winning record. I have no idea what kind of ratings the AutoNation Cure Bowl (2016 competitors: 7-5 Arkansas St and 6-6 Central Florida), The Quick Lanes Bowl (6-6 BC vs 6-6 Maryland), or the St. Petersburg Bowl (5-7 Miss St vs 6-6 Miami, Oh) gets but I have a hard time imagining the numbers are that good.

-Jason "I say all this knowing that Duke has gotten to bowls with a 6-6 record lately... but I think the good of the game would be for there to be a lot fewer bowls even if it hurts us to do that" Evans

BandAlum83
11-21-2017, 02:06 PM
I am gonna guess that Duke79 implies that you "came of age" in the 70s. There were generally about 15 bowl games per year back in that era. There are around 40 now.

ESPN could solve a lot of this by saying they will not televise any bowl game that features a team that does not have a winning record. I have no idea what kind of ratings the AutoNation Cure Bowl (2016 competitors: 7-5 Arkansas St and 6-6 Central Florida), The Quick Lanes Bowl (6-6 BC vs 6-6 Maryland), or the St. Petersburg Bowl (5-7 Miss St vs 6-6 Miami, Oh) gets but I have a hard time imagining the numbers are that good.

-Jason "I say all this knowing that Duke has gotten to bowls with a 6-6 record lately... but I think the good of the game would be for there to be a lot fewer bowls even if it hurts us to do that" Evans

I think we were 6-5 my Senior year. Spurrier as offensive coordinator and Ben Bennett at QB. We were pretty good, but alas, no Bowl game for us.

budwom
11-21-2017, 02:16 PM
I am gonna guess that Duke79 implies that you "came of age" in the 70s. There were generally about 15 bowl games per year back in that era. There are around 40 now.

ESPN could solve a lot of this by saying they will not televise any bowl game that features a team that does not have a winning record. I have no idea what kind of ratings the AutoNation Cure Bowl (2016 competitors: 7-5 Arkansas St and 6-6 Central Florida), The Quick Lanes Bowl (6-6 BC vs 6-6 Maryland), or the St. Petersburg Bowl (5-7 Miss St vs 6-6 Miami, Oh) gets but I have a hard time imagining the numbers are that good.

-Jason "I say all this knowing that Duke has gotten to bowls with a 6-6 record lately... but I think the good of the game would be for there to be a lot fewer bowls even if it hurts us to do that" Evans

Well, it WOULD hurt us to do that. It's not just actually going to the bowl game that matters, it's the extra month of practice that comes along with it. That's a huge benefit for teams.

Hingeknocker
11-21-2017, 02:48 PM
The extra practice time that comes with making a bowl pretty much makes it worth it all by itself, no matter what the team's record is. I sort of understand the "these teams don't deserve to go bowling" argument, but I don't subscribe to it at all. On the whole, the fans, players, and coaches for the teams that make a bowl seem to take the games seriously and enjoy playing in them. I'm perfectly happy that all 6-win teams get to bowl, along with a very small number of 5-win teams should that be a necessity. Also, I'm not sure why we should worry about what the Shreveport Bowl or AutoZone Bowl or Beef O'Brady's Bowl or Bitcoin Bowl (or whatever they're called this year) think about the teams they end up getting. They and ESPN have made the calculation that having the bowl with mediocre teams is better than not having it, and I'm not sure we have any evidence to suggest they are wrong.

duke79
11-21-2017, 03:06 PM
I am gonna guess that Duke79 implies that you "came of age" in the 70s. There were generally about 15 bowl games per year back in that era. There are around 40 now.

ESPN could solve a lot of this by saying they will not televise any bowl game that features a team that does not have a winning record. I have no idea what kind of ratings the AutoNation Cure Bowl (2016 competitors: 7-5 Arkansas St and 6-6 Central Florida), The Quick Lanes Bowl (6-6 BC vs 6-6 Maryland), or the St. Petersburg Bowl (5-7 Miss St vs 6-6 Miami, Oh) gets but I have a hard time imagining the numbers are that good.

-Jason "I say all this knowing that Duke has gotten to bowls with a 6-6 record lately... but I think the good of the game would be for there to be a lot fewer bowls even if it hurts us to do that" Evans

yea, I turned 14 in 1970, so I guess you can say I "came of age" during the 70's. Frankly, and I know my memory is lacking, I don't remember 15 bowl games back then. IIRC, the big three were the Rose, Cotton and Orange bowls (in the days when bowl games did NOT have corporate names attached to them!) and then there were a few minor bowls (Fiesta, and maybe some others, that I'm not even sure were televised?). Of course, those were also the days before cable TV and ESPN, so it was only the big three networks that televised bowl games. I believe it was pretty much the top college football teams, more or less, that got to play in the big three bowls. I'm not particularly upset at having 40 bowl games now (certainly good for all the colleges and their fans) and if ESPN or other networks can make money by televising some of these rinky dink bowl games, all the more power to them. I admit I never watch most of the bowl games, unless Duke is playing in one of them.

BandAlum83
11-21-2017, 03:15 PM
yea, I turned 14 in 1970, so I guess you can say I "came of age" during the 70's. Frankly, and I know my memory is lacking, I don't remember 15 bowl games back then. IIRC, the big three were the Rose, Cotton and Orange bowls (in the days when bowl games did NOT have corporate names attached to them!) and then there were a few minor bowls (Fiesta, and maybe some others, that I'm not even sure were televised?). Of course, those were also the days before cable TV and ESPN, so it was only the big three networks that televised bowl games. I believe it was pretty much the top college football teams, more or less, that got to play in the big three bowls. I'm not particularly upset at having 40 bowl games now (certainly good for all the colleges and their fans) and if ESPN or other networks can make money by televising some of these rinky dink bowl games, all the more power to them. I admit I never watch most of the bowl games, unless Duke is playing in one of them.

The 4th "major" bowl was the Sugar Bowl.

And an interesting trivia item at one point (I don't know if it's still true), Duke is (was) the only school to have played in all 4 major bowl games.

At least that's what I was told during my undergrad days. There was no internet to verify such things easily.

duke79
11-21-2017, 03:23 PM
The 4th "major" bowl was the Sugar Bowl.

And an interesting trivia item at one point (I don't know if it's still true), Duke is (was) the only school to have played in all 4 major bowl games.

At least that's what I was told during my undergrad days. There was no internet to verify such things easily.

Oh yea, sorry, I forgot about the Sugar Bowl. And I actually attended the SB in the Superdome a few times in the late 70's, only bowl games I have ever gone to .

DU82
11-21-2017, 03:41 PM
The 4th "major" bowl was the Sugar Bowl.

And an interesting trivia item at one point (I don't know if it's still true), Duke is (was) the only school to have played in all 4 major bowl games.

At least that's what I was told during my undergrad days. There was no internet to verify such things easily.

I believe at the time Duke was one of about eight that had played in all four, and about four who had won them.

I'm pretty sure at least Penn State has joined the list, and probably Texas. The Rose Bowl, exclusive to the B1G and PAC 8/10/12 from the '50s to the '00s was the toughest to check off.

( Surely you would have asked the campus trivia expert back then!)

BigWayne
11-21-2017, 03:51 PM
yea, I turned 14 in 1970, so I guess you can say I "came of age" during the 70's. Frankly, and I know my memory is lacking, I don't remember 15 bowl games back then. IIRC, the big three were the Rose, Cotton and Orange bowls (in the days when bowl games did NOT have corporate names attached to them!) and then there were a few minor bowls (Fiesta, and maybe some others, that I'm not even sure were televised?). Of course, those were also the days before cable TV and ESPN, so it was only the big three networks that televised bowl games. I believe it was pretty much the top college football teams, more or less, that got to play in the big three bowls. I'm not particularly upset at having 40 bowl games now (certainly good for all the colleges and their fans) and if ESPN or other networks can make money by televising some of these rinky dink bowl games, all the more power to them. I admit I never watch most of the bowl games, unless Duke is playing in one of them.

11 in 1970
7823

15 in 1979
7824

Bob Green
11-21-2017, 04:03 PM
Well, it WOULD hurt us to do that. It's not just actually going to the bowl game that matters, it's the extra month of practice that comes along with it. That's a huge benefit for teams.

Budwom's comment cannot be overemphasized. The extra practice allowed by participating in a bowl game is vital to the team.


I believe at the time Duke was one of about eight that had played in all four, and about four who had won them.

Perhaps I am misinterpreting your comment, but it appears you are implying Duke has won the Rose Bowl which is not the case. Duke lost both times in the Rose Bowl:

1939 - Southern California 7, Duke 3
1942 - Oregon State 20, Duke 16

duke79
11-21-2017, 04:24 PM
11 in 1970
7823

15 in 1979
7824

Thanks for reminding me. NOW, I remember some of those other bowl games, beside the big four. But were all of those bowl games televised back then?

devildeac
11-21-2017, 04:27 PM
Budwom's comment cannot be overemphasized. The extra practice allowed by participating in a bowl game is vital to the team.



Perhaps I am misinterpreting your comment, but it appears you are implying Duke has won the Rose Bowl which is not the case. Duke lost both times in the Rose Bowl:

1939 - Southern California 7, Duke 3
1942 - Oregon State 20, Duke 16

Plus, the extra practice time might help retain/sway a recruit to sign his LOI in February (aside: are there 2 signing periods in FB now?) that might choose "elsewhere" if Duke fails to qualify/attend a bowl.

jimsumner
11-21-2017, 05:47 PM
Football coaches consider minor bowl games to be the beginning of the following season as much as the end of the current season.

Pghdukie
11-21-2017, 07:10 PM
Outside of playing in all the major bowls, Duke also hosted the Rose Bowl in the WWII years.

arnie
11-21-2017, 08:53 PM
Outside of playing in all the major bowls, Duke also hosted the Rose Bowl in the WWII years.

The Rose Bowl in Jan 1942 was hosted by Duke shortly after Pearl Harbor invasion. The following WWII years the Rose Bowl was held in Pasadena. We only hosted one year.

OldPhiKap
11-21-2017, 08:55 PM
The Rose Bowl in Jan 1942 was hosted by Duke shortly after Pearl Harbor invasion. The following WWII years the Rose Bowl was held in Pasadena. We only hosted one year.

Yup, the only year it was not held in Pasadena.

So, we have that going for us. Which is nice.

sagegrouse
11-21-2017, 09:28 PM
Budwom's comment cannot be overemphasized. The extra practice allowed by participating in a bowl game is vital to the team.



Perhaps I am misinterpreting your comment, but it appears you are implying Duke has won the Rose Bowl which is not the case. Duke lost both times in the Rose Bowl:

1939 - Southern California 7, Duke 3
1942 - Oregon State 20, Duke 16

Both were games Duke should have won. The score against USC was 3-0, and USC could make no progress against the Duke defense, which had gone all year without being scored on ("unbeaten and unscored on"). The USC assistant coaches had even left the press box to go to the sidelines. And then, and then


...backup quarterback Doyle Nave of the Trojans completed four straight passes to "Antelope" Al Krueger, who outmaneuvered Eric "The Red" Tipton and scored the winning touchdown with one minute remaining. Krueger's touchdown marked the first points scored against Duke during the season.

The Oregon State game, less than four weeks after Pearl Harbor, was an upset. Oregon State was given no chance by the experts. Then it happened. "The 20 points that Oregon State scored were the most scored on the Blue Devils since 1930, they year before Wade became head football coach. It was the most points scored against a Wade-coached team since 1928."

Shortly after the game everyone went into the military, including Wallace Wade. [A slight exaggeration, but those were unparalleled times.]

awhom111
11-22-2017, 12:53 AM
I am gonna guess that Duke79 implies that you "came of age" in the 70s. There were generally about 15 bowl games per year back in that era. There are around 40 now.

ESPN could solve a lot of this by saying they will not televise any bowl game that features a team that does not have a winning record. I have no idea what kind of ratings the AutoNation Cure Bowl (2016 competitors: 7-5 Arkansas St and 6-6 Central Florida), The Quick Lanes Bowl (6-6 BC vs 6-6 Maryland), or the St. Petersburg Bowl (5-7 Miss St vs 6-6 Miami, Oh) gets but I have a hard time imagining the numbers are that good.

-Jason "I say all this knowing that Duke has gotten to bowls with a 6-6 record lately... but I think the good of the game would be for there to be a lot fewer bowls even if it hurts us to do that" Evans

Only one of ESPN's bowls averaged less than a million viewers last season (and that was daytime on a weekday). It's better than pretty much anything else that ESPN could put on during that time.

BigWayne
11-22-2017, 03:24 AM
Thanks for reminding me. NOW, I remember some of those other bowl games, beside the big four. But were all of those bowl games televised back then?

How could you forget the Mizlou Television Network? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizlou_Television_Network)

BandAlum83
11-22-2017, 09:58 AM
Both were games Duke should have won. The score against USC was 3-0, and USC could make no progress against the Duke defense, which had gone all year without being scored on ("unbeaten and unscored on"). The USC assistant coaches had even left the press box to go to the sidelines. And then, and then



The Oregon State game, less than four weeks after Pearl Harbor, was an upset. Oregon State was given no chance by the experts. Then it happened. "The 20 points that Oregon State scored were the most scored on the Blue Devils since 1930, they year before Wade became head football coach. It was the most points scored against a Wade-coached team since 1928."

Shortly after the game everyone went into the military, including Wallace Wade. [A slight exaggeration, but those were unparalleled times.]

That 1939 game still stings. Thanks for bringing it up.

DU82
11-22-2017, 03:47 PM
Budwom's comment cannot be overemphasized. The extra practice allowed by participating in a bowl game is vital to the team.



Perhaps I am misinterpreting your comment, but it appears you are implying Duke has won the Rose Bowl which is not the case. Duke lost both times in the Rose Bowl:

1939 - Southern California 7, Duke 3
1942 - Oregon State 20, Duke 16

I typed poorly. I should have said that there were four that had won all four bowls AND Duke was not one of them. I blame Siri.

Reilly
11-22-2017, 10:51 PM
... I blame Siri.

I heard she drinks moonshine while eating deviled eggs w/ Siracha.

Reilly
11-22-2017, 10:53 PM
That 1939 game still stings. Thanks for bringing it up.

Some people still think it's the worst thing that happened in 1939.

OldPhiKap
11-22-2017, 10:56 PM
I heard she drinks moonshine while eating deviled eggs w/ Siracha.

ThT would be a great Pop Tart flavor.

Reilly
11-23-2017, 04:00 AM
Good WFU-centric overview of ACC bowl bids:

https://www.bloggersodear.com/2017/11/21/16677886/wake-forest-bowl-projections-analysis-and-likely-scenarios

Reilly
11-25-2017, 12:11 AM
Miami 10-1 (7-1) ... CU(N)
Clemson 10-1 (7-1) ... @SoCar, Mia(N)

Notre Dame 9-2 ... @Stanford

VT 9-3 (5-3)

NCSU 7-4 (5-2) ... UNC
WFU 7-4 (4-3) ... Duke
Lville 7-4 (4-4) ... @Kentucky

BC 6-5 (3-4) ... @Syr

UVA 6-6 (3-5)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

GT 5-5 (4-4) ... Georgia

Duke 5-6 (2-5) ... @WFU

FSU 4-6 (3-5) ... @Florida, LAMonroe

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pitt 5-7 (3-5)

Syr 4-7 (2-5) ... BC

UNC 3-8 (1-6) ... @NCSU

Reilly
11-25-2017, 08:25 AM
Per the Wikipedia link

Number of teams going to bowl games: 78
Number of bowl-eligible teams: 73

There are fourteen more teams that can get to 6 wins, and three of the fourteen are guaranteed to do so.

The three guaranteed are winners of:

Indiana/Purdue
MTSU/ODU
Utah/Colorado

So that gives us at least 76 6-win teams, meaning we'll have 0, 1, or 2 5-win teams bowling, depending on how these 5-win teams do (and espn's fpi only rates two of these 5-win team's games as probable that the the 5-win team will win]:


Georgia Tech ... UGA (12:00 pm) [georgia fave by 10.5; 78% chance to win]
Tulane ... @SMU (12:00 pm) [smu fave by 8; 71% chance to win]
Duke ... @WFU (12:30 pm) [wfu fave by 11.5; 70% chance to win]
UNLV ... @Nevada (3:00 pm) [nev fave by 3; 60% chance to win]
Minnesota ... Wisconsin (3:30 pm) [wisc fave by 18; 89% chance to win]
Temple ... @Tulsa (4 pm) [tlsa udog by 3.5 but given 65% chance to win by espn fpi (?)]
Louisiana–Lafayette ... GaSo (5:00 pm); @AppSt (12/2 2:30 pm) [ull fave by 6; 63% chance to win // / appst 86% chance to win]
Louisiana Tech ... UTSA (7:30 pm) [lt fave by 2; 55% chance to win]


Since Louisiana-Lafayette has two games left, it's possible we won't know until next Saturday whether any 5-7 teams are going bowling.

And I guess we may need to keep an eye on Air Force (4-7)/Utah State and Vandy(4-7)/Tenn.

OldPhiKap
11-25-2017, 08:53 AM
Per the Wikipedia link

Number of teams going to bowl games: 78
Number of bowl-eligible teams: 73

There are fourteen more teams that can get to 6 wins, and three of the fourteen are guaranteed to do so.

The three guaranteed are winners of:

Indiana/Purdue
MTSU/ODU
Utah/Colorado

So that gives us at least 76 6-win teams, meaning we'll have 0, 1, or 2 5-win teams bowling, depending on how these 5-win teams do (and espn's fpi only rates two of these 5-win team's games as probable that the the 5-win team will win]:


Georgia Tech ... UGA (12:00 pm) [georgia fave by 10.5; 78% chance to win]
Tulane ... @SMU (12:00 pm) [smu fave by 8; 71% chance to win]
Duke ... @WFU (12:30 pm) [wfu fave by 11.5; 70% chance to win]
UNLV ... @Nevada (3:00 pm) [nev fave by 3; 60% chance to win]
Minnesota ... Wisconsin (3:30 pm) [wisc fave by 18; 89% chance to win]
Temple ... @Tulsa (4 pm) [tlsa udog by 3.5 but given 65% chance to win by espn fpi (?)]
Louisiana–Lafayette ... GaSo (5:00 pm); @AppSt (12/2 2:30 pm) [ull fave by 6; 63% chance to win // / appst 86% chance to win]
Louisiana Tech ... UTSA (7:30 pm) [lt fave by 2; 55% chance to win]


Since Louisiana-Lafayette has two games left, it's possible we won't know until next Saturday whether any 5-7 teams are going bowling.

And I guess we may need to keep an eye on Air Force (4-7)/Utah State and Vandy(4-7)/Tenn.

Good leg work on this,Reilly!

91devil
11-25-2017, 11:56 AM
Per the Wikipedia link

Number of teams going to bowl games: 78
Number of bowl-eligible teams: 73

There are fourteen more teams that can get to 6 wins, and three of the fourteen are guaranteed to do so.

The three guaranteed are winners of:

Indiana/Purdue
MTSU/ODU
Utah/Colorado

So that gives us at least 76 6-win teams, meaning we'll have 0, 1, or 2 5-win teams bowling, depending on how these 5-win teams do (and espn's fpi only rates two of these 5-win team's games as probable that the the 5-win team will win]:


Georgia Tech ... UGA (12:00 pm) [georgia fave by 10.5; 78% chance to win]
Tulane ... @SMU (12:00 pm) [smu fave by 8; 71% chance to win]
Duke ... @WFU (12:30 pm) [wfu fave by 11.5; 70% chance to win]
UNLV ... @Nevada (3:00 pm) [nev fave by 3; 60% chance to win]
Minnesota ... Wisconsin (3:30 pm) [wisc fave by 18; 89% chance to win]
Temple ... @Tulsa (4 pm) [tlsa udog by 3.5 but given 65% chance to win by espn fpi (?)]
Louisiana–Lafayette ... GaSo (5:00 pm); @AppSt (12/2 2:30 pm) [ull fave by 6; 63% chance to win // / appst 86% chance to win]
Louisiana Tech ... UTSA (7:30 pm) [lt fave by 2; 55% chance to win]


Since Louisiana-Lafayette has two games left, it's possible we won't know until next Saturday whether any 5-7 teams are going bowling.

And I guess we may need to keep an eye on Air Force (4-7)/Utah State and Vandy(4-7)/Tenn.

I think we also need to consider four win Florida State, who has Florida today and then their make up game next week versus Louisiana-Monroe. Could get them to six wins. I don’t know if Reilly included FSU in his excellent summary.

I think it is likely, even probable, that there are more six win teams than bowl slots. By Reilly’s count, and including FSU, fifteen teams for five spots, which is really nine teams for two spots (because three games today feature two, five win teams). I’d guess at least three of those teams are going to win a sixth game, leaving some six win team without an invite.

If you’re a small bowl, would you rather invite FSU and it’s large alumni base and traveling hoard, or Duke, with much smaller of both?

We must win today AND probably get help from the other five win teams. Regrettably, I don’t think getting to six wins is a guarantee for a bowl this year.

tbyers11
11-25-2017, 12:06 PM
I think we also need to consider four win Florida State, who has Florida today and then their make up game next week versus Louisiana-Monroe. Could get them to six wins. I don’t know if Reilly included FSU in his excellent summary.

I think it is likely, even probable, that there are more six win teams than bowl slots. By Reilly’s count, and including FSU, fifteen teams for five spots, which is really nine teams for two spots (because three games today feature two, five win teams). I’d guess at least three of those teams are going to win a sixth game, leaving some six win team without an invite.

If you’re a small bowl, would you rather invite FSU and it’s large alumni base and traveling hoard, or Duke, with much smaller of both?

We must win today AND probably get help from the other five win teams. Regrettably, I don’t think getting to six wins is a guarantee for a bowl this year.

I think 6 wins will get us a bowl because of the ACC tie-ins. If FSU and Georgia Tech both get to 6 wins then we probably need more help.

Reilly
11-25-2017, 04:03 PM
So what is the worst case ACC math, from Duke's perspective:

(a) neither Miami nor Clemson gets into the CFB playoff;
(b) ND steals an ACC slot (possible?);
(c) none of the ACC-contingent slots come to fruition;
(d) FSU gets to 6 wins.

Is all of that possible? Some of it? The bowl projections recently did not have the ACC filling its slots -- but those projections generally had at least one ACC team in the playoff.

Some of the "if/then/1x-every-X-years" contingent criteria for ACC bowls gets me lost in the weeds and I haven't tried to learn those.

SCMatt33
11-25-2017, 04:07 PM
So what is the worst case ACC math, from Duke's perspective:

(a) neither Miami nor Clemson gets into the CFB playoff;
(b) ND steals an ACC slot (possible?);
(c) none of the ACC-contingent slots come to fruition;
(d) FSU gets to 6 wins.

Is all of that possible? Some of it? The bowl projections recently did not have the ACC filling its slots -- but those projections generally had at least one ACC team in the playoff.

Some of the "if/then/1x-every-X-years" contingent criteria for ACC bowls gets me lost in the weeds and I haven't tried to learn those.

Most of that is technically possible, but there won't be much of an excess of 6 win teams if any, and when there is, it's always small conference teams that get the shaft as they never have enough contracts to cover all their teams. So if your worried about Duke somehow not getting a bowl, don't. If you're worried about Duk getting kicked to some really crappy bowl game, I guess it's possible, but a lot would need to go horribly wrong against all good sense and probabilities.

sagegrouse
11-25-2017, 04:09 PM
Most of that is technically possible, but there won't be much of an excess of 6 win teams if any, and when there is, it's always small conference teams that get the shaft as they never have enough contracts to cover all their teams. So if your worried about Duke somehow not getting a bowl, don't. If you're worried about Duk getting kicked to some really crappy bowl game, I guess it's possible, but a lot would need to go horribly wrong against all good sense and probabilities.

A worry about "which bowl" is a nice problem to have.

Olympic Fan
11-25-2017, 04:11 PM
Most of that is technically possible, but there won't be much of an excess of 6 win teams if any, and when there is, it's always small conference teams that get the shaft as they never have enough contracts to cover all their teams. So if your worried about Duke somehow not getting a bowl, don't. If you're worried about Duk getting kicked to some really crappy bowl game, I guess it's possible, but a lot would need to go horribly wrong against all good sense and probabilities.

Duke absolutely WILL get a bowl game.

As I posted in the game thread, it's likely to be the Quick Lane or the Independence Bowl.

But I guarantee you that Duke will go bowling.

Bob Green
11-25-2017, 04:17 PM
If it is the Military Bowl, I'm headed to Annapolis.

cato
11-25-2017, 04:20 PM
#DDMF

91devil
11-25-2017, 04:28 PM
Duke absolutely WILL get a bowl game.

But I guarantee you that Duke will go bowling.


I’m generally with you, Oly. I think any six win team that doesn’t get an invite (and there will be some) will likely come from a smaller FBS conference. But the ACC “only” gets nine tie-in bids (I think), plus the Nat’l Semis team and a couple of contingent bids. By my Duke Math count, and assuming FSU wins next week and also including Notre Dame (as the Irish are tied to ACC bowls), there are eleven ACC bowl eligible teams. I’d put us around tenth in the pecking order there, and maybe last (are we a better draw than Virginia?).

Don’t get me wrong, I do think we will get a bowl invite. But I’m going to pay a little more attention this afternoon to Temple / Tulsa (we want Tulsa), UNLV / Nevada (we want Nevada), Wisconsin / Minnesota (we want Wiscy) and La Tech / UTSA (we want UTSA).

budwom
11-25-2017, 04:52 PM
Duke sells tickets to its bowl games, which is what the sponsors want, plus our games are generally entertaining.

hallcity
11-25-2017, 05:10 PM
Is it still possible for Duke to buy its way into a better bowl game by giving a higher ticket sales guarantee? We wouldn't have to actually sell the tickets; just pay for them. I'd think Duke could easily outbid BC and WFU, for instance. That used to be possible although you couldn't jump over a team with two more wins. It would be nice to find a way to get to the Military Bowl. We could actually sell some tickets to that one.

SCMatt33
11-25-2017, 05:11 PM
I’m generally with you, Oly. I think any six win team that doesn’t get an invite (and there will be some) will likely come from a smaller FBS conference. But the ACC “only” gets nine tie-in bids (I think), plus the Nat’l Semis team and a couple of contingent bids. By my Duke Math count, and assuming FSU wins next week and also including Notre Dame (as the Irish are tied to ACC bowls), there are eleven ACC bowl eligible teams. I’d put us around tenth in the pecking order there, and maybe last (are we a better draw than Virginia?).

Don’t get me wrong, I do think we will get a bowl invite. But I’m going to pay a little more attention this afternoon to Temple / Tulsa (we want Tulsa), UNLV / Nevada (we want Nevada), Wisconsin / Minnesota (we want Wiscy) and La Tech / UTSA (we want UTSA).

I think it's still a good chance that the ACC doesn't have to leave a team out of its permanent bowl tie ins. While ND can take ACC slots, if they beat Stanford tonight, I can't see any way that a two loss ND team doesn't earn a NY6 at large berth and it could even be the orange bowl against the ACC runner up if things break right in the big ten and sec and they're the highest ranked non champ available.

As for pecking order, I think we might be below UVA as bowls tend to give a bit of a boost to teams ending significant bowl droughts as there's some extra motivation for those fans to want to buy tix as they haven't gone in awhile. However, I do think there's a chance we'd be picked ahead of either BC or Wake or both. They have better records than us, but no guarantee that bowls will consider them a better draw, so who knows.

OldPhiKap
11-25-2017, 05:12 PM
If it is the Military Bowl, I'm headed to Annapolis.

Don’t let Charles Barkley drive.

Big congrats to the team, last two when they needed it! The only thing which makes our bowl trip better is the fact that UNC and GTech will watch from home.

Faison1
11-25-2017, 06:05 PM
Don’t get me wrong, I do think we will get a bowl invite. But I’m going to pay a little more attention this afternoon to Temple / Tulsa (we want Tulsa), UNLV / Nevada (we want Nevada), Wisconsin / Minnesota (we want Wiscy) and La Tech / UTSA (we want UTSA).

OK....so far:

Wisconsin is killing Minnesota

Temple has an 18 point lead on Tulsa

Nevada beat UNLV

La Tech is yet to play

Not sure if it has any bearing, but another 5 win team lost today...SMU beat Tulane who remains 5 and 7

Faison1
11-25-2017, 06:11 PM
Georgia Tech ... UGA (12:00 pm) [georgia fave by 10.5; 78% chance to win]
Tulane ... @SMU (12:00 pm) [smu fave by 8; 71% chance to win]
Duke ... @WFU (12:30 pm) [wfu fave by 11.5; 70% chance to win]
UNLV ... @Nevada (3:00 pm) [nev fave by 3; 60% chance to win]
Minnesota ... Wisconsin (3:30 pm) [wisc fave by 18; 89% chance to win]
Temple ... @Tulsa (4 pm) [tlsa udog by 3.5 but given 65% chance to win by espn fpi (?)]
Louisiana–Lafayette ... GaSo (5:00 pm); @AppSt (12/2 2:30 pm) [ull fave by 6; 63% chance to win // / appst 86% chance to win]
Louisiana Tech ... UTSA (7:30 pm) [lt fave by 2; 55% chance to win]

I'll work off of this one:

Georgia Tech Lost
Tulane Lost
UNLV Lost
Minnesota is Losing and unlikely to win
Temple Won

And of course, Duke won...

Reilly
11-25-2017, 06:58 PM
So if Temple won and Duke won, that means no 5-7 teams go bowling, I believe. And if FSU gets to 6 and the LA schools do, maybe 3 (?) 6-win schools stay home.

91devil
11-25-2017, 07:11 PM
So if Temple won and Duke won, that means no 5-7 teams go bowling, I believe. And if FSU gets to 6 and the LA schools do, maybe 3 (?) 6-win schools stay home.

Yeah, that’s why it is called bowl ‘eligible’ and not bowl ‘guaranteed’.

I still think we will be selected to a bowl as a P5 team but by no means are we guaranteed. My point earlier still holds: do you think the Bad Boy Mower Bowl reps would rather have Duke or Florida State in their initial sponsored bowl?

Anxious to hear Jim Sumner’s notes from the next football press conference, especially about what the coaching staff and athletic department are hearing.

hashtag hopeful for Duke Bowling

Reilly
11-25-2017, 07:21 PM
Miami 10-1 (7-1) ... CU(N)
Clemson 10-1 (7-1) ... @SoCar, Mia(N)

Notre Dame 9-2 ... @Stanford

VT 9-3 (5-3)

NCSU 8-4 (6-2)
Lville 8-4 (4-4)

WFU 7-5 (4-4)
BC 7-5 (4-4)

UVA 6-6 (3-5)
Duke 6-6 (3-5)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

FSU 5-6 (3-5) ... LAMonroe

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GT 5-6 (4-4)

Pitt 5-7 (3-5)

Syr 4-8 (2-6)

UNC 3-9 (1-7)

DU82
11-25-2017, 07:41 PM
Root for Clemson over South Carolina, and Notre Dame over Stanford. The first likely guarantees an ACC team in the playoff, and the latter pushes ND to a NY6 bowl, taking them out of the ACC mix. That’ll leave nine ACC teams for nine bowl slots, not needing the two secondary affiliations. (This assumes FSU wins next week.)

That’ll put the ACC championship loser in the Orange Bowl, and VT in the Camping World Bowl.

The next four teams, (NCSU, Louisville, and probably Wake and BC) will be in the sun, Belk, Pinstripe and (likely) Music City Bowl.

The last three teams, Duke, UVA and FSU go to the Independence, Military and Quick Lane.

There is a possibility that a 6-6 team is chosen above either 7-5 team (Wake and BC).

I don’t know if a 6-6 FSU team is that attractive to bowls, as they are used to higher level bowls. I think they’re likely for Shreveport, leaving Detroit and Annapolis for Duke and UVA.

Olympic Fan
11-25-2017, 07:44 PM
You guys are sweating nothing ... Duke WILL be selected for a bowl.

It's complicated, but the ACC is in a dominant position with interlocking bowls.

Yes, the Orange, Belk, Pinstripe, Sun, Quick Lane, Military, Independence are not the only ACC tie-ins. ACC teams are prime contenders for the Peach, the Cotton, the Fiesta, the Camping World (formerly the Citrus Bowl). The ACC gets either the Music City of the Taxslayer Bowl. And the ACC almost always has to full either the St. Petersburg Bowl or the Birmingham Bowl.

I'll ask you a question: When was the last time an eligible 6-win ACC team missed a bowl?

Technically, it happened in 2011, when 6-6 Miami voluntarily gave up a bowl as a self-imposed penalty after the ugly brawl with South Florida. Actually, Miami just wanted to fire Larry Coker and move on and used the brawl as an excuse not to extend the season.

The real answer is 2004, when 6-6 Clemson was shut out.

In terms of bowl attractiveness, Duke has always been favored by the bowl committees -- Duke is definitely a more attractive bowl guest than Boston College, which is notorious for not bring fans.

So worry if you want, but Duke WILL go bowling.

BigWayne
11-25-2017, 07:47 PM
So if Temple won and Duke won, that means no 5-7 teams go bowling, I believe. And if FSU gets to 6 and the LA schools do, maybe 3 (?) 6-win schools stay home.

As of this minute...77 bowl eligible teams and the winner of this evening's contest between Utah (5-6) and Colorado (5-6) will generate a 78th eligible team.

FSU, LaTech, and New Mexico St are all favored to win their last game and also become bowl eligible.

Faison1
11-25-2017, 08:22 PM
As of this minute...77 bowl eligible teams and the winner of this evening's contest between Utah (5-6) and Colorado (5-6) will generate a 78th eligible team.

FSU, LaTech, and New Mexico St are all favored to win their last game and also become bowl eligible.

The more I think about it, the more I agree with Oly. Just because there's 78 Bowl Eligible Teams, does not automatically mean Duke is #78 on the list.

I would venture to say Duke is probably #50-60 in terms of Bowl Attractiveness, IMHO.

There's a ton of Bowl Eligible Teams that just aren't very good. Most of Conference USA (9 Teams), most of Sun Belt (4 Teams), most of the MAC (7 Teams), and at least half of Mountain West (6 Teams) are not better than Duke.

SCMatt33
11-25-2017, 09:10 PM
Just to add to this, I think the results of Auburn-Alabama today make it nearly impossible for the SEC to fill its slot in the Birmingham Bowl, and thus the ACC will get to implement its secondary agreement and fill the spot if necessary. The Birmingham bowl is #9 on the SEC pecking order and thanks to Ole Miss' bowl ban, they only have 9 eligible teams. With Alabama as a one loss non champ, it would be mind boggling to see the SEC not get two NY6 games meaning the Birmingham Bowl belongs to the ACC. With Clemson up 20 at half against South Carolina, it's looking like the ACC champ will be a virtual lock for the playoff barring a questionable decision by the committee. That would leave 11 ACC bowl spots available for 11 teams even if ND is one of them. I don't think we would have to worry anyway for reasons stated by others about comparing us to MAC and C-USA teams, but I don't even think the ACC will need to send teams outside of its own contracts and may not even fill its own conditional Birmingham slot should Clemson, Miami and ND all get NY6 bids.

DU82
11-25-2017, 09:31 PM
Yes, the Orange, Belk, Pinstripe, Sun, Quick Lane, Military, Independence are not the only ACC tie-ins. ACC teams are prime contenders for the Peach, the Cotton, the Fiesta, the Camping World (formerly the Citrus Bowl). The ACC gets either the Music City of the Taxslayer Bowl. And the ACC almost always has to full either the St. Petersburg Bowl or the Birmingham Bowl.


The Camping World Bowl is separate from the Citrus Bowl (game). They are both played in Camping World Stadium, which is the reconstructed Citrus Bowl (stadium) (all but the upper levels were rebuilt starting in 2014.)

The ACC only gets a team in the Citrus Bowl if a B1G team is selected to play in the Orange Bowl. Since the B1G sent a team to Miami Gardens last year, it's unlikely they'll do so this year.

The ACC's bowl tie-ins can be found here on the ACC web page: http://theacc.com/sports/2017/8/28/FB_0828173607.aspx

duke2x
11-25-2017, 09:34 PM
My assumption is school size will drive placements more than quality of team or head-head record. Add your own thoughts to mine.

#1 CFP - Clemson /Miami winner
#2 Miami/Orange. - Clemson/Miami loser.
ND - gets a NY6 if they beat Stanford. This is the key assumption for all the rest.
#3 - Orlando - VT 9-3 (5-3). Bigger TV draw than NCSU.

If the 1-win rule still exists, any of the remaining ACC teams can take Tier 1 spots. Only NCSU, VT and ND are guaranteed Tier 1.

#4A - Charlotte - UVA 3-5 (6-6). Both NCSU and Louisville have been here recently. UVA is bowling for the first time in 6 years and is a state school. This could be FSU as well.
#4B - NYC - NCSU 6-2 (8-4). Beat Louisville to avoid Sun Bowl. They supposedly want a different team each year of the contract.
#4C - Rotating (Tax) FSU 3-5 (6-6). I don't like the head of the Tax Bowl. I could see Louisville here as well.
#5- Sun - Louisville 4-4 (8-4). No way Lamar Jackson drops to Tier II. This is the odd-man out since nobody can get to El Paso on 3 weeks notice.

Duke is 3-5 (6-6) while Wake and BC are 4-4 (7-5). UVA is the first team to drop out of Tier I, IMO.

DC- Duke/BC. UVA is the obvious first choice here. Wake went here last year. Navy is the likely opponent, IMO, which means the game is really @Navy.
Shreveport- Duke/BC/Wake. Your guess is as good as mine here. Wake has been here several times. If FSU is still around, I think FSU is the easy first choice here. It's a big stadium v. the SEC. SEC teams always travel but to a lesser extent for a private school.
Detroit - Duke/Wake. BC went here recently.

Mystery - If ND takes an ACC spot, 1 ACC team becomes a random at-large. St. Pete is out because the AAC and CUSA have filled all their spots. As noted above, the SEC probably will leave the Birmingham spot open for an ACC team v. the AAC.

My best case is Military and worst case is Shreveport. Detroit and Birmingham fall in the middle because both are accessible.

hallcity
11-25-2017, 09:56 PM
You guys are sweating nothing ... Duke WILL be selected for a bowl.

It's complicated, but the ACC is in a dominant position with interlocking bowls.

Yes, the Orange, Belk, Pinstripe, Sun, Quick Lane, Military, Independence are not the only ACC tie-ins. ACC teams are prime contenders for the Peach, the Cotton, the Fiesta, the Camping World (formerly the Citrus Bowl). The ACC gets either the Music City of the Taxslayer Bowl. And the ACC almost always has to full either the St. Petersburg Bowl or the Birmingham Bowl.

I'll ask you a question: When was the last time an eligible 6-win ACC team missed a bowl?

Technically, it happened in 2011, when 6-6 Miami voluntarily gave up a bowl as a self-imposed penalty after the ugly brawl with South Florida. Actually, Miami just wanted to fire Larry Coker and move on and used the brawl as an excuse not to extend the season.

The real answer is 2004, when 6-6 Clemson was shut out.

In terms of bowl attractiveness, Duke has always been favored by the bowl committees -- Duke is definitely a more attractive bowl guest than Boston College, which is notorious for not bring fans.

So worry if you want, but Duke WILL go bowling.

I'd pencil in BC for Detroit except for one thing. They went last year. BC is the key question. No one wants them but they have to go somewhere. My hope is that the Pinstripe picks Duke and BC gets forced back to Detroit.

duke2x
11-25-2017, 10:27 PM
I'd pencil in BC for Detroit except for one thing. They went last year. BC is the key question. No one wants them but they have to go somewhere. My hope is that the Pinstripe picks Duke and BC gets forced back to Detroit.

Pinstripe is probably out of reach as I noted above. Bowls are supposed to invite a team no more frequently than 1/4 years given the discretion to do so. This was the first year that we could go back to Charlotte, but I don't see that happening.

White should be able to make a good pitch for Duke to the DC folks over BC and Wake. It's an easy drive/train from NC/NYC. DC is a top 5 alumni base, and we have traveled reasonably well to games @Navy. UVA obviously gets that spot before us (size and W in October).

ice-9
11-25-2017, 10:27 PM
The more I think about it, the more I agree with Oly. Just because there's 78 Bowl Eligible Teams, does not automatically mean Duke is #78 on the list.

I would venture to say Duke is probably #50-60 in terms of Bowl Attractiveness, IMHO.

There's a ton of Bowl Eligible Teams that just aren't very good. Most of Conference USA (9 Teams), most of Sun Belt (4 Teams), most of the MAC (7 Teams), and at least half of Mountain West (6 Teams) are not better than Duke.

It feels like we are #78 because of how late we became bowl eligible, but don't forget this is a team that beat a very good and ranked Northwestern team.

We're going to go bowling.

Reilly
11-25-2017, 10:41 PM
Breakdown of playoff scenarios:

https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/starting-11-gus-bus-crashes-playoff-edition/

OldPhiKap
11-25-2017, 11:07 PM
Breakdown of playoff scenarios:

https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/starting-11-gus-bus-crashes-playoff-edition/

Jimbo Fisher to Texas A&M?

In broader terms, sure looking like the hopes of Notre Dame taking a non-ACC slot just died in Palo Alto.

hallcity
11-25-2017, 11:13 PM
Notre Dame is about to lose to Stanford which may scramble everyone's projections.

arnie
11-26-2017, 09:18 AM
SB Nation projection are out. Duke vs Central Michigan in Quick Lane. The Chippewas are 8-4 with 20+ pt losses to Syracuse and BC. Getting way ahead here, but Duke favored by 7?

budwom
11-26-2017, 09:24 AM
SB Nation projection are out. Duke vs Central Michigan in Quick Lane. The Chippewas are 8-4 with 20+ pt losses to Syracuse and BC. Getting way ahead here, but Duke favored by 7?

I'd be guessing we're a better drawer of peoples in Ann Apples vs Navy, but any place is fine. Quick Lane is 12/26 though, not the best time to travel.

duke2x
11-26-2017, 09:39 AM
I'd be guessing we're a better drawer of peoples in Ann Apples vs Navy, but any place is fine. Quick Lane is 12/26 though, not the best time to travel.

We are a great match for DC...unless the other team involved is UVA. :)

Reilly
11-26-2017, 10:38 AM
If Navy's going to be in the Military Bowl, it would be better for Virginia to play them -- the George Welsh Bowl -- given those two have not played much recently (20+ years, I believe I saw). While I'd rather Duke go to Annapolis than Detroit or Shreveport for the number of fans we could bring to Annapolis, I would not want to play Navy (just b/c we already play them frequently).

Reilly
11-26-2017, 10:45 AM
SB Nation projection are out. Duke vs Central Michigan in Quick Lane. The Chippewas are 8-4 with 20+ pt losses to Syracuse and BC. Getting way ahead here, but Duke favored by 7?

Here's the link: https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/11/26/16700858/bowl-projections-2017-college-football-playoff-predictions-updated-new

While the day after Christmas is not ideal, sort of cool for the players to play in a newish, indoor NFL stadium.

Reilly
11-26-2017, 10:48 AM
... Duke vs Central Michigan in Quick Lane ... Duke favored by 7?

SRS says we're almost 9 points better than CMU on a neutral field, so if you give CMU 2 for quasi-home field, 7's a good guess:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2017-ratings.html

Reilly
11-26-2017, 11:08 AM
Jerry Palm predicting Duke against Memphis on December 23 in Birmingham. Would be a homecoming for Cut.

https://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/bowls/predictions

arnie
11-26-2017, 11:13 AM
Jerry Palm predicting Duke against Memphis on December 23 in Birmingham. Would be a homecoming for Cut.

https://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/bowls/predictions

Memphis is pretty good and the game would get more attention. Wed have better chance beating CMU.

jimsumner
11-26-2017, 11:20 AM
Memphis is pretty good and the game would get more attention. Wed have better chance beating CMU.

Did you see what Memphis did to ECU yesterday?

Ouch.

Faison1
11-26-2017, 11:28 AM
Notre Dame is about to lose to Stanford which may scramble everyone's projections.

I found myself actually rooting for Notre Dame last night...just because of the ACC Bowl Scenarios!!

I almost felt sorry for them. They were leading by 3 late in the game, and within 4 minutes, they were losing by 18. A lot of ND Fans in the stands trying to grasp the situation.

I love having ND basketball in the conference, but I still don't get why we allow them to play football independently...and screw up our Bowl scenarios!!!

Reilly
11-26-2017, 11:31 AM
SI also predicting Birmingham.

https://www.si.com/college-football/2017/11/26/bowl-projections-playoff-rankings-schedule-matchups

arnie
11-26-2017, 11:34 AM
Did you see what Memphis did to ECU yesterday?

Ouch.

Yes; their O is scary, but of course, ECU may have the worst D I can remember in a long time.

Of note, I can’t seem to find the esteemed UNC team listed in the bowl projections. My eyesight must be failing.

Reilly
11-26-2017, 11:38 AM
espn's two predictions: http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/21568451/week-13-college-football-bowl-projections-2017

Reilly
11-26-2017, 11:42 AM
... I can’t seem to find the esteemed UNC team listed in the bowl projections. My eyesight must be failing.

Please see post #90 above. There, all 15 teams that might be claiming an ACC bid are listed. UNC is #15 out of 15 because they have the worst record. To their credit, they did get half as many wins (3) as a school needs to be bowl eligible (6). So, by UNC math, maybe they'll get 3 more next year, and be eligible then.

Reilly
11-26-2017, 11:50 AM
Joe Giglio Twitter prediction: Duke to Quick Lane

And a good Giglio primer on the ACC process:

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/nc-state/state-now/article186581403.html

Reilly
11-26-2017, 11:54 AM
CFN: Duke/CMU in Quick Lane

http://collegefootballnews.com/2017/11/bowl-projections-college-football-playoff-after-week-13

davekay1971
11-26-2017, 12:20 PM
CFN: Duke/CMU in Quick Lane

http://collegefootballnews.com/2017/11/bowl-projections-college-football-playoff-after-week-13

This seems likely but I'd sure love to see Duke in the Military Bowl. Duke has such a strong representation in the Mid-Atlantic DC/Balt/Phila area. Plus, there would be a reasonable chance I could make it...

Still, this team's last two games have been marvelous and I'm happy for them to be in whatever bowl they get.

Faison1
11-26-2017, 12:26 PM
Joe Giglio Twitter prediction: Duke to Quick Lane

And a good Giglio primer on the ACC process:

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/nc-state/state-now/article186581403.html

This is a really good article...and puts my mind at ease.

Kinda funny that yesterday we were debating whether there would be enough slots available for all 11 ACC Bowl Eligible Teams. This article makes it sound like there won't be enough ACC Teams to fill all the slots...including Notre Dame and FSU!!!

richardjackson199
11-26-2017, 01:04 PM
CFN: Duke/CMU in Quick Lane

http://collegefootballnews.com/2017/11/bowl-projections-college-football-playoff-after-week-13

I wonder what is really more likely? Maybe Quick Lane is less likely and it's more likely that Duke stays south - like Birmingham, Shreveport, or St. Pete.

I think Shreveport against a random mid-major is what happens. And this year, that would make me ecstatic. I still can't believe we're going bowling.

Olympic Fan
11-26-2017, 01:05 PM
Interesting projected lineup of bowl games for Duke.

I understand that various bowls offer the best -- and easiest -- travel destinations for our fans, but they offer some widely varying tests for our team.

Frankly, I want to finish 7-6 and not 6-7.

In order, allow me to project the easiest to the toughest games:

1. Quick Lane vs. Central Michigan ... the one game Duke will be favored to win

2. Sasparilla vs. Southern Miss ... well, might be favored here

3. Military vs. Navy ... on Navy's homefield. I know we have done well against option teams in recent years (even in the loss to Arm,y, it was our offense, not our defense that hurt most), but Navy is good and playing at home would have a significant advantage

4. Birmingham vs. Memphis ... Ouch. Memphis is GOOD. They put 70 on UConn and ECU. Their only loss was to UCF. In fact, they play UCF again Saturday in the conference title game and if they pull the upset, they probably get a Top 6 bowl game.

BigWayne
11-26-2017, 01:06 PM
This is a really good article...and puts my mind at ease.

Kinda funny that yesterday we were debating whether there would be enough slots available for all 11 ACC Bowl Eligible Teams. This article makes it sound like there won't be enough ACC Teams to fill all the slots...including Notre Dame and FSU!!!

With Notre Dame dropping into the ACC mix, the ACC is looking for 11 spots, assuming FSU doesn't implode next week.

Assuming one team in the CFP semifinals and one in the Orange bowl, the ACC will have one more team than the tie in list, unless we get a Big Ten team in the Orange Bowl. That probably hinges on whether Wisconsin wins next week, possibly on an Oklahoma loss also.

If Alabama ends up in the Orange Bowl, then the last ACC team will have to go to another bowl. My guess is that this spot would be the Birmingham Bowl as the SEC is short of teams to fill that slot.

budwom
11-26-2017, 01:10 PM
Interesting projected lineup of bowl games for Duke.

I understand that various bowls offer the best -- and easiest -- travel destinations for our fans, but they offer some widely varying tests for our team.

Frankly, I want to finish 7-6 and not 6-7.

In order, allow me to project the easiest to the toughest games:

1. Quick Lane vs. Central Michigan ... the one game Duke will be favored to win

2. Sasparilla vs. Southern Miss ... well, might be favored here

3. Military vs. Navy ... on Navy's homefield. I know we have done well against option teams in recent years (even in the loss to Arm,y, it was our offense, not our defense that hurt most), but Navy is good and playing at home would have a significant advantage

4. Birmingham vs. Memphis ... Ouch. Memphis is GOOD. They put 70 on UConn and ECU. Their only loss was to UCF. In fact, they play UCF again Saturday in the conference title game and if they pull the upset, they probably get a Top 6 bowl game.

agreed that Memphis is very good, but I'd take vs Navy even on their home field. We have quite a bit more talent (not that that did us much good vs Army).

Bob Green
11-26-2017, 01:17 PM
agreed that Memphis is very good, but I'd take vs Navy even on their home field. We have quite a bit more talent (not that that did us much good vs Army).

I agree with you our talent level is significantly better than Navy and for completely selfish reasons I am hoping we get a bid to the Military Bowl in Annapolis.

budwom
11-26-2017, 01:22 PM
I agree with you our talent level is significantly better than Navy and for completely selfish reasons I am hoping we get a bid to the Military Bowl in Annapolis.

If we can't indulge some completely selfish reasons during the Holiday season, when can we???? I'm with you all the way, Bob.

ehdg
11-26-2017, 01:25 PM
If we can't indulge some completely selfish reasons during the Holiday season, when can we???? I'm with you all the way, Bob.

I'd love to have us in the Military Bowl as well. Though sadly I'll be away with the family for the holiday's other wise I'd have definitely driven down for this Bowl in we where invited.

hallcity
11-26-2017, 01:40 PM
Joe Giglio Twitter prediction: Duke to Quick Lane

And a good Giglio primer on the ACC process:

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/nc-state/state-now/article186581403.html

Giglio has by far the best sources on ACC bowl assignments. His sources say that Duke to Detroit is pretty definite.

richardjackson199
11-26-2017, 02:03 PM
Giglio has by far the best sources on ACC bowl assignments. His sources say that Duke to Detroit is pretty definite.

Doesn't it seem weird to send Duke north to Detroit when both BC and UVA need bowls?

But if Giglio knows something, then Detroit it is I guess.

Reilly
11-26-2017, 02:11 PM
Doesn't it seem weird to send Duke north to Detroit when both BC and UVA need bowls?

But if Giglio knows something, then Detroit it is I guess.

The Shane Battier connection.

Reilly
11-26-2017, 03:31 PM
Here's the L'ville paper: https://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/louisville/2017/11/26/louisville-football-bowl-projections/895770001/

Bob Green
11-26-2017, 03:53 PM
Here's the L'ville paper: https://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/louisville/2017/11/26/louisville-football-bowl-projections/895770001/

I don't see the Military Bowl picking Boston College over Virginia or Duke. BC doesn't travel well, while either Virginia or Duke would send a nice crowd to Annapolis.

OldPhiKap
11-26-2017, 04:06 PM
Do bowl invitations go out a week from today?

Bob Green
11-26-2017, 04:18 PM
Do bowl invitations go out a week from today?

Yes.

Duke79UNLV77
11-26-2017, 04:47 PM
With a 5th bowl appearance in 6 years, I think it's time to question some of the surprising negativity about our coaching that I saw on the boards this year.

We all know that most schools can't expect to win in basketball at Duke's level year-in, year-out, and many schools should be happy with much less. Well, Duke is not an easy place to win big in football. It's just not, for multiple reasons. Even if Coach K had been a football coach, he couldn't have hoped to win at Duke in that sport at the level he has in basketball. (Okay, I take that back, so I won't be struck by lightning. Ditka/Coach K versus God in a game of golf ...)

We were winning about a game a year on average for a decade before Cut. I hoped he would end the days of 0 and 1-win years and that, maybe, we could make a bowl game every 3-5 years. The last 6 years have been beyond what I thought was possible. I wouldn't trade Cut for any other coach in the country. I don't know that anyone else would be doing better, and, if they would, they likely would have used Duke as a stepping stone and left by now.

OldPhiKap
11-26-2017, 05:10 PM
With a 5th bowl appearance in 6 years, I think it's time to question some of the surprising negativity about our coaching that I saw on the boards this year.

We all know that most schools can't expect to win in basketball at Duke's level year-in, year-out, and many schools should be happy with much less. Well, Duke is not an easy place to win big in football. It's just not, for multiple reasons. Even if Coach K had been a football coach, he couldn't have hoped to win at Duke in that sport at the level he has in basketball. (Okay, I take that back, so I won't be struck by lightning. Ditka/Coach K versus God in a game of golf ...)

We were winning about a game a year on average for a decade before Cut. I hoped he would end the days of 0 and 1-win years and that, maybe, we could make a bowl game every 3-5 years. The last 6 years have been beyond what I thought was possible. I wouldn't trade Cut for any other coach in the country. I don't know that anyone else would be doing better, and, if they would, they likely would have used Duke as a stepping stone and left by now.

Negativity comes with increased expectations, for better and worse. When a team starts 4-0, then goes 0-6, frustration has to find an outlet. With many on this board, it seemed to center around play-calling.

Was all of that criticism legitimate? Probably not. Was the play calling great? Not by a long shot. So I would say that the criticism was warranted but tinged with frustration.

Like you, I lived through the dark years. On a whole, I would rather have interested fans who are critical of performance than going back to the “well, we lost but we are supposed to” wasteland of the decades between Spurrier and Cut.

And I agree with you wholly — we are lucky to have Cut and I would not trade him for anyone!

nyesq83
11-26-2017, 05:13 PM
When we get more, better players we will win more. Despite assistant coaches. I offer love and respect to all in the program. At other ACC schools albeit state schools, Bronco and whatsisface at VT are proof that a program needs best bodies out there.

YmoBeThere
11-26-2017, 05:28 PM
We were winning about a game a year on average for a decade before Cut. I hoped he would end the days of 0 and 1-win years and that, maybe, we could make a bowl game every 3-5 years. The last 6 years have been beyond what I thought was possible. I wouldn't trade Cut for any other coach in the country. I don't know that anyone else would be doing better, and, if they would, they likely would have used Duke as a stepping stone and left by now.

This. I will admit that I got caught up in the expectations that have developed under Coach Cutcliffe. However, part of those expectations were based on what has happened at Stanford, Northwestern, and Vanderbilt for a couple of years under James Franklin. The former two definitely make it clear that with proper investment and coaching, consistent success can be achieved at even the most rigorous institutions.

CameronBornAndBred
11-26-2017, 05:40 PM
With a 5th bowl appearance in 6 years, I think it's time to question some of the surprising negativity about our coaching that I saw on the boards this year.


I don't. With better coaching and play calling, we would be looking at a top tier bowl and not be merely thankful to be playing in one.


When we get more, better players we will win more. Despite assistant coaches. I offer love and respect to all in the program. At other ACC schools albeit state schools, Bronco and whatsisface at VT are proof that a program needs best bodies out there.

As has been pointed out before, this season the coaches heralded this team as the strongest, fastest and most talented team they've had. And we squeaked in. It's not the players, it's the coaching, which is even more glaring with the guys on the field and the results we had.

Bob Green
11-26-2017, 05:55 PM
I think it's time to question some of the surprising negativity about our coaching that I saw on the boards this year.

Even with the two big wins to end the season and earn bowl eligibility, upgrades in several assistant coaching positions are warranted. Coach Cutcliffe has stated numerous times, if you are not improving you are declining (or words to that effect). The team needs continued improvement especially with play calling, wide receiver performance and special teams.

-jk
11-26-2017, 05:56 PM
...
As has been pointed out before, this season the coaches heralded this team as the strongest, fastest and most talented team they've had. And we squeaked in. It's not the players, it's the coaching, which is even more glaring with the guys on the field and the results we had.

Given how Cut goes for athleticism over established talent (teaching: wow!, it mostly works), I think it's a balance between coaching and players...

-jk

CameronBornAndBred
11-26-2017, 06:11 PM
Given how Cut goes for athleticism over established talent (teaching: wow!, it mostly works), I think it's a balance between coaching and players...

-jk

Point was that we've done much more with far less. One would assume with "the fastest most talented team" that these coaches have had, the results would be much better, and unfortunately it was the opposite. We ARE going bowling, but not to one that I would have expected. Also, this has been a remarkably injury free year, which makes the record even more of a bummer. I hate to say that I am disappointed in a year when we get a post season, but at this point in time in the lifeline of the program that Cut is putting together, the disappointment is well warranted.

Reilly
11-26-2017, 06:36 PM
I didn't think we were going to be all that this year b/c the O-line did not seem like all that, and b/c we did not have stud R-SRs/SRs other than Ramsay and Wilson. That said, we lost three games to teams worse than us -- 64 Virginia, 66 Pitt, and 61 Army -- while winning three games against teams better than us (21 NU; 23 WFU; 35 GT). So maybe we're basically where we should be. The frustrating part was the total seemed less than the sum of the parts, somehow. The kicking teams play was atrocious -- hated feeling like there was no chance there, seeing all the bad decision making on fielding balls, all the touchbacks on the punts, yada yada. That element of the game is one where preparation and coaching pay huge dividends, and one where Duke -- in Cut's years -- has made up the difference in any talent gap between us and others. We're closing the talent gap, but we seemed to lose our edge in the "coach 'em up" category. And the O seemed to lack focus, execution, and a sense of momentum for large swaths of the year. This was our best D in many, many years, it seemed to me, and halfway through the WFU game, I was bemoaning that a no bowl season would be wasting the tremendous defensive effort we saw this year. So happy Duke is going bowling -- maybe we can pitch a shutout in the bowl and get the D the accolades it deserves.

jimsumner
11-26-2017, 06:40 PM
Point was that we've done much more with far less. One would assume with "the fastest most talented team" that these coaches have had, the results would be much better, and unfortunately it was the opposite. We ARE going bowling, but not to one that I would have expected. Also, this has been a remarkably injury free year, which makes the record even more of a bummer. I hate to say that I am disappointed in a year when we get a post season, but at this point in time in the lifeline of the program that Cut is putting together, the disappointment is well warranted.

Unfortunately "talented and fastest" weren't matched with "experienced." Duke only had seven core seniors this season, Austin Davis, Gabe Brandner, Evan Lisle, Shaun Wilson, Mike Ramsay, Alonzo Saxton and Bryon Fields. Most of these guys had pretty good senior seasons. But they were surrounded by lots of true freshmen, redshirt freshmen, true sophomores and there were growing pains.

And no, I don't think I would add "best-coached" to this team, either and I trust I've made my thoughts on that subject clear. But there's a lot of talent coming back next season and if nothing else, the late run should stop any potential slippage with committed recruits.

So, the program is in pretty good shape and I trust the off-season will see a thorough and if necessary ruthless assessment of whether the current assistant coaches are well-matched to their current assignments.

And like Olympic Fan, I'd much rather end 7-6 than 6-7. A winnable game trumps location for me in a big way.

OldPhiKap
11-26-2017, 07:09 PM
espn's two predictions: http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/21568451/week-13-college-football-bowl-projections-2017

A game with Akron would set up a grudge match in revenge for us winning the 1986 men’s soccer championship.

Okay, maybe not. But given that our win over the Zips was the first natty for Duke in any sport, it just bears bringing up every once in awhile.

OldPhiKap
11-26-2017, 07:30 PM
Tell me if I have missed any, but so far the potential bowls for us mentioned by the “experts” are, in date order:

12/21 8pm (TH.) St. Petersburg
12/23 noon (SAT.) Birmingham
12/26 6:15pm (TU.) Detroit
12/27 1:30pm (WED.) Shreveport
12/28 1:30pm (TH.) Annapolis

With Belk likely above our pay grade, and Pinstripe out because of our appearance two years ago.

Of that, Birmingham would be great for me and I think a lot of ATL Duke fans would make the short trip.

YmoBeThere
11-26-2017, 07:43 PM
Tell me if I have missed any, but so far the potential bowls for us mentioned by the “experts” are, in date order:

12/21 8pm (TH.) St. Petersburg - Bad Boy Mowers Gasparilla Bowl ($1,300,000)
12/23 noon (SAT.) Birmingham - Birmingham Bowl ($2,025,000)
12/26 6:15pm (TU.) Detroit - Quick Lane Bowl ($1,450,000)
12/27 1:30pm (WED.) Shreveport - Walk-On's Independence Bowl ($1,466,200)
12/28 1:30pm (TH.) Annapolis - Military Bowl presented by Northrup Grumman ($2,200,000)

OldPhiKap
11-26-2017, 07:47 PM
12/21 8pm (TH.) St. Petersburg - Bad Boy Mowers Gasparilla Bowl ($1,300,000)
12/23 noon (SAT.) Birmingham - Birmingham Bowl ($2,025,000)
12/26 6:15pm (TU.) Detroit - Quick Lane Bowl ($1,450,000)
12/27 1:30pm (WED.) Shreveport - Walk-On's Independence Bowl ($1,466,200)
12/28 1:30pm (TH.) Annapolis - Military Bowl presented by Northrup Grumman ($2,200,000)

Thanks for the addition!

Reilly
11-26-2017, 07:48 PM
I believe the Detroit (eastern time zone) kickoff is 5:15 pm ET.

http://www.detroitlions.com/quicklanebowl.html

OldPhiKap
11-26-2017, 07:53 PM
I believe the Detroit (eastern time zone) kickoff is 5:15 pm ET.

http://www.detroitlions.com/quicklanebowl.html

Thanks. ESPN link says 6:15 so must be typo.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/21568451/week-13-college-football-bowl-projections-2017

Corrected (all times EST):


12/21 8pm (TH.) St. Petersburg - Bad Boy Mowers Gasparilla Bowl ($1,300,000)
12/23 noon (SAT.) Birmingham - Birmingham Bowl ($2,025,000)
12/26 5:15pm (TU.) Detroit - Quick Lane Bowl ($1,450,000)
12/27 1:30pm (WED.) Shreveport - Walk-On's Independence Bowl ($1,466,200)
12/28 1:30pm (TH.) Annapolis - Military Bowl presented by Northrup Grumman ($2,200,000)

Henderson
11-26-2017, 07:59 PM
Tell me if I have missed any, but so far the potential bowls for us mentioned by the “experts” are, in date order:

12/21 8pm (TH.) St. Petersburg
12/23 noon (SAT.) Birmingham
12/26 6:15pm (TU.) Detroit
12/27 1:30pm (WED.) Shreveport
12/28 1:30pm (TH.) Annapolis

With Belk likely above our pay grade, and Pinstripe out because of our appearance two years ago.

Of that, Birmingham would be great for me and I think a lot of ATL Duke fans would make the short trip.

I like Birmingham too, and will add an additional reason for that:

The players and staff got this team to this point, and I'd ask what would be best for for them and their families. I assume they want something conveniently located, not too disruptive of Christmas celebrations with family, and would like to be playing in prime time. So:

(1) Detroit is out, because it's Detroit in December on a Tuesday evening the day after Christmas. Ugh. (2) Shreveport is out, because it's a weekday afternoon game just two days after Christmas. (3) Annapolis would not be bad. It's far enough after Christmas that folks could put the game aside a bit to celebrate with family. But still, it's an afternoon game on a weekday. (4) St. Pete would be really good. It hits all the buttons, except for the distance. Thursday evening prime time is almost as good as a weekend time slot. But Tampa/St. Pete is deep into Florida, so if you live in any other state, it's a haul. (5) Birmingham seems best. Noon EST on a Saturday 2 days before Christmas? Pretty sweet. And it's in range of a lot of Duke fans, family, etc. Probably not so good as Annapolis in that regard, but more convenient for OPK, which for me is the deciding factor.

Reilly
11-26-2017, 08:09 PM
... more convenient for OPK, which for me is the deciding factor.

And Bob wants Annapolis. I hope this fractiousness does not tear the Duke fanbase apart.

OldPhiKap
11-26-2017, 08:14 PM
I like Birmingham too, and will add an additional reason for that:

The players and staff got this team to this point, and I'd ask what would be best for for them and their families. I assume they want something conveniently located, not too disruptive of Christmas celebrations with family, and would like to be playing in prime time. So:

(1) Detroit is out, because it's Detroit in December on a Tuesday evening the day after Christmas. Ugh. (2) Shreveport is out, because it's a weekday afternoon game just two days after Christmas. (3) Annapolis would not be bad. It's far enough after Christmas that folks could put the game aside a bit to celebrate with family. But still, it's an afternoon game on a weekday. (4) St. Pete would be really good. It hits all the buttons, except for the distance. Thursday evening prime time is almost as good as a weekend time slot. But Tampa/St. Pete is deep into Florida, so if you live in any other state, it's a haul. (5) Birmingham seems best. Noon EST on a Saturday 2 days before Christmas? Pretty sweet. And it's in range of a lot of Duke fans, family, etc. Probably not so good as Annapolis in that regard, but more convenient for OPK, which for me is the deciding factor.

Extra mashed potatoes coming your way this holiday!

In case anyone else is using that metric:

Birmingham — 4 hour drive
Tampa — 7.5 hour drive. About same time as flight by the time I factor in lay-over, car rental, etc.
Annapolis — 8.5 hours but with traffic probably 50. So Delta has to be ready when I am. Not sure of public transport from airports to the site but maybe DC Duke chapter chartering a bus or something.
Shreveport — 10 long, straight, dull hours to drive. Have to fly. Or hole up in the casino for a few days to sleep off the drive.
Detroit — fly out on Christmas? And hope for no blizzard complicating travel? Detroit is a really neat city but I’m gonna have trouble making that one.

Not that I’ve given it any thought today, of course.

OldPhiKap
11-26-2017, 08:15 PM
And Bob wants Annapolis. I hope this fractiousness does not tear the Duke fanbase apart.

If it comes down to Duke football, I gladly cede the floor to Bob. A truly dedicated fan, and I’ve enjoyed the few brief times I got to meet him at games.

OZ
11-26-2017, 08:42 PM
Point was that we've done much more with far less. One would assume with "the fastest most talented team" that these coaches have had, the results would be much better, and unfortunately it was the opposite. We ARE going bowling, but not to one that I would have expected. Also, this has been a remarkably injury free year, which makes the record even more of a bummer. I hate to say that I am disappointed in a year when we get a post season, but at this point in time in the lifeline of the program that Cut is putting together, the disappointment is well warranted.

I love college football; and I am one of those fringe lunies who bought season tickets when there were no wins. I also attended the lunches, where we were told that this was Cut's "fastest, most talented and deepest team." I've heard all the testimonies over the past three years as to the "upgrade" in recruiting. Hearing this, I approached this year with much greater expectations than in previous years. In my opinion, one can hardly blame fans for being confused, disappointed, angry(?) and negative in their thoughts/comments. Starting the year, we won four in a row... though in hindsight, non of those games was a true indicator of the kind of team we had. Then, unexpectedly, came a six game losing streak - where at least three of those games were against teams that appeared to be weaker than we and/or at least on equal footing. The most alarming aspect of that streak was instead of improving, we seemed to regress... particularly offensively. My bewilderment was only exacerbated by comments from Cut as to his own bewilderment - such as on punt returns.
Then when all seemed lost, I went to the GT game thinking, "We will probably be leaving by the end of the third quarter." That thought seemed to be accurate as we started out so poorly. Then came a complete turn around in the second half. Same can be said about the Wake game. Even these wins seem to point to the enigma this team was (to me). How can a team, that is "faster, deeper and more talented"... one that wins four games in a row... look so bad, losing six in a row? How can we end the season beating two teams who seemed to be on a roll when we played them? How can we, in those two games, play so horrible in the first halves, only to play totally different second halves?
I have played football (HS)... coached a little... and attended a thousand Duke games... and I don't get it. I just hope that the bowl doesn't serve as cover for a season that met so few peoples'/coaches expectations.Players... coaches... a coach? As my granddad used to say, "something ain't right here; and it needs fix'n." That is, to be fully critiqued and necessary changes made. There are a lot of young players on this team; as well as, seemingly, a lot of talented ones. I've already decided to buy my tickets again next year... but, even an old luney gets tired of disappointment.. particularly disappointment that is difficult to understand.

CameronBornAndBred
11-26-2017, 08:54 PM
I love college football; and I am one of those fringe lunies who bought season tickets when there were no wins. I also attended the lunches, where we were told that this was Cut's "fastest, most talented and deepest team." I've heard all the testimonies over the past three years as to the "upgrade" in recruiting. Hearing this, I approached this year with much greater expectations than in previous years. In my opinion, one can hardly blame fans for being confused, disappointed, angry(?) and negative in their thoughts/comments. Starting the year, we won four in a row... though in hindsight, non of those games was a true indicator of the kind of team we had. Then, unexpectedly, came a six game losing streak - where at least three of those games were against teams that appeared to be weaker than we and/or at least on equal footing. The most alarming aspect of that streak was instead of improving, we seemed to regress... particularly offensively. My bewilderment was only exacerbated by comments from Cut as to his own bewilderment - such as on punt returns.
Then when all seemed lost, I went to the GT game thinking, "We will probably be leaving by the end of the third quarter." That thought seemed to be accurate as we started out so poorly. Then came a complete turn around in the second half. Same can be said about the Wake game. Even these wins seem to point to the enigma this team was (to me). How can a team, that is "faster, deeper and more talented"... one that wins four games in a row... look so bad, losing six in a row? How can we end the season beating two teams who seemed to be on a roll when we played them? How can we, in those two games, play so horrible in the first halves, only to play totally different second halves?
I have played football (HS)... coached a little... and attended a thousand Duke games... and I don't get it. I just hope that the bowl doesn't serve as cover for a season that met so few peoples'/coaches expectations.Players... coaches... a coach? As my granddad used to say, "something ain't right here; and it needs fix'n." That is, to be fully critiqued and necessary changes made. There are a lot of young players on this team; as well as, seemingly, a lot of talented ones. I've already decided to buy my tickets again next year... but, even an old luney gets tired of disappointment.. particularly disappointment that is difficult to understand.
Excellent critical outlook. I'll be back next year too, and every year after, no matter our record, but I am longing to see the coaches' bright outlook turn into real results. It was fun when we far surpassed expectations; it is equally painful to watch them fall well short. Here's to a great finish this year, and then an in-depth evaluation to figure out what happened during that 6 game streak.

OldPhiKap
11-26-2017, 09:00 PM
I love college football; and I am one of those fringe lunies who bought season tickets when there were no wins. I also attended the lunches, where we were told that this was Cut's "fastest, most talented and deepest team." I've heard all the testimonies over the past three years as to the "upgrade" in recruiting. Hearing this, I approached this year with much greater expectations than in previous years. In my opinion, one can hardly blame fans for being confused, disappointed, angry(?) and negative in their thoughts/comments. Starting the year, we won four in a row... though in hindsight, non of those games was a true indicator of the kind of team we had. Then, unexpectedly, came a six game losing streak - where at least three of those games were against teams that appeared to be weaker than we and/or at least on equal footing. The most alarming aspect of that streak was instead of improving, we seemed to regress... particularly offensively. My bewilderment was only exacerbated by comments from Cut as to his own bewilderment - such as on punt returns.
Then when all seemed lost, I went to the GT game thinking, "We will probably be leaving by the end of the third quarter." That thought seemed to be accurate as we started out so poorly. Then came a complete turn around in the second half. Same can be said about the Wake game. Even these wins seem to point to the enigma this team was (to me). How can a team, that is "faster, deeper and more talented"... one that wins four games in a row... look so bad, losing six in a row? How can we end the season beating two teams who seemed to be on a roll when we played them? How can we, in those two games, play so horrible in the first halves, only to play totally different second halves?
I have played football (HS)... coached a little... and attended a thousand Duke games... and I don't get it. I just hope that the bowl doesn't serve as cover for a season that met so few peoples'/coaches expectations.Players... coaches... a coach? As my granddad used to say, "something ain't right here; and it needs fix'n." That is, to be fully critiqued and necessary changes made. There are a lot of young players on this team; as well as, seemingly, a lot of talented ones. I've already decided to buy my tickets again next year... but, even an old luney gets tired of disappointment.. particularly disappointment that is difficult to understand.


Excellent critical outlook. I'll be back next year too, and every year after, no matter our record, but I am longing to see the coaches' bright outlook turn into real results. It was fun when we far surpassed expectations; it is equally painful to watch them fall well short. Here's to a great finish this year, and then an in-depth evaluation to figure out what happened during that 6 game streak.

our away games next season:

Clemson
GTech
Miami
Pitt
Northwestern
Baylor

Ouch. Home:

V.tech
UVA
Bastards
Wake
Army
NCCU

6-6 may be a pretty good record next year. Making a bowl will be a major accomplishment I think.

CameronBornAndBred
11-26-2017, 09:10 PM
our away games next season:

Clemson
GTech
Miami
Pitt
Northwestern
Baylor

Ouch. Home:

V.tech
UVA
Bastards
Wake
Army
NCCU

6-6 may be a pretty good record next year. Making a bowl will be a major accomplishment I think.

In hindsight, our Northwestern win was a good one, they will end their season ranked. I see a few revenge games in there. Fun schedule. More fun to look forward to with a bowl victory!

OldPhiKap
11-26-2017, 09:11 PM
In hindsight, our Northwestern win was a good one, they will end their season ranked. I see a few revenge games in there. Fun schedule. More fun to look forward to with a bowl victory!

A-men brother.

chrishoke
11-26-2017, 09:19 PM
I love college football; and I am one of those fringe lunies who bought season tickets when there were no wins. I also attended the lunches, where we were told that this was Cut's "fastest, most talented and deepest team." I've heard all the testimonies over the past three years as to the "upgrade" in recruiting. Hearing this, I approached this year with much greater expectations than in previous years. In my opinion, one can hardly blame fans for being confused, disappointed, angry(?) and negative in their thoughts/comments. Starting the year, we won four in a row... though in hindsight, non of those games was a true indicator of the kind of team we had. Then, unexpectedly, came a six game losing streak - where at least three of those games were against teams that appeared to be weaker than we and/or at least on equal footing. The most alarming aspect of that streak was instead of improving, we seemed to regress... particularly offensively. My bewilderment was only exacerbated by comments from Cut as to his own bewilderment - such as on punt returns.
Then when all seemed lost, I went to the GT game thinking, "We will probably be leaving by the end of the third quarter." That thought seemed to be accurate as we started out so poorly. Then came a complete turn around in the second half. Same can be said about the Wake game. Even these wins seem to point to the enigma this team was (to me). How can a team, that is "faster, deeper and more talented"... one that wins four games in a row... look so bad, losing six in a row? How can we end the season beating two teams who seemed to be on a roll when we played them? How can we, in those two games, play so horrible in the first halves, only to play totally different second halves?
I have played football (HS)... coached a little... and attended a thousand Duke games... and I don't get it. I just hope that the bowl doesn't serve as cover for a season that met so few peoples'/coaches expectations.Players... coaches... a coach? As my granddad used to say, "something ain't right here; and it needs fix'n." That is, to be fully critiqued and necessary changes made. There are a lot of young players on this team; as well as, seemingly, a lot of talented ones. I've already decided to buy my tickets again next year... but, even an old luney gets tired of disappointment.. particularly disappointment that is difficult to understand.

And now you know why coaches typically poor mouth their chances - Dean Smith was the master - control expectations.

tux
11-26-2017, 09:56 PM
Point was that we've done much more with far less. One would assume with "the fastest most talented team" that these coaches have had, the results would be much better, and unfortunately it was the opposite. We ARE going bowling, but not to one that I would have expected. Also, this has been a remarkably injury free year, which makes the record even more of a bummer. I hate to say that I am disappointed in a year when we get a post season, but at this point in time in the lifeline of the program that Cut is putting together, the disappointment is well warranted.

The schedule was tougher this year, as Duke benefited from several coastal teams being relatively weak in past seasons. Losing to Virginia, Pitt, and Army was disappointing, but I'm not sold on the need for wholesale changes. Re: the play calling. I do wonder if run/pass are options being controlled by Daniel. For example, Wake was stacking the box daring Duke to beat them in the air.

OZ
11-26-2017, 10:20 PM
And now you know why coaches typically poor mouth their chances - Dean Smith was the master - control expectations.

It has been my experience, that Cut doesn't really overhype his team. He's usually rather matter of fact. However, this year he seemed genuinely excited. I have a feeling, this season was not at all what HE "expected."

Tappan Zee Devil
11-26-2017, 10:48 PM
our away games next season:

Clemson
GTech
Miami
Pitt
Northwestern
Baylor

Ouch. Home:

V.tech
UVA
Bastards
Wake
Army
NCCU

6-6 may be a pretty good record next year. Making a bowl will be a major accomplishment I think.

I see 5-1 at home, 2-4 on the road, which gets you there

jimsumner
11-26-2017, 10:58 PM
I see 5-1 at home, 2-4 on the road, which gets you there

I see 6-0 at home, 4-2 on the road.

But that's just me. :)

Duke79UNLV77
11-26-2017, 11:04 PM
It has been my experience, that Cut doesn't really overhype his team. He's usually rather matter of fact. However, this year he seemed genuinely excited. I have a feeling, this season was not at all what HE "expected."

Athlon predicted us at 4-8, 2-6 in the ACC. CBS Sports had 7 experts picking, 5 of which picked us 6th out of 7 in the Coastal. Few neutral experts predicted a bowl for Duke this year, or the year before, or the year before, or ...

I love Cut's enthusiasm and appreciate that he's upgraded our talent, but we're still on the bottom end of ACC recruiting rankings just about every year.

We easily could have won another game or 2 this year, but I'm not complaining.

devildeac
11-27-2017, 12:16 AM
our away games next season:

Clemson
GTech
Miami
Pitt
Northwestern
Baylor

Ouch. Home:

V.tech
UVA
Bastards
Wake
Army
NCCU

6-6 may be a pretty good record next year. Making a bowl will be a major accomplishment I think.


In hindsight, our Northwestern win was a good one, they will end their season ranked. I see a few revenge games in there. Fun schedule. More fun to look forward to with a bowl victory!

We'll arrive in Evanston next year on the Purple Line from the south side of Chicago about 3 hours before KO. Same restaurant, different beers than last year with Mr. and Mrs. Sagegrouse. Y'all welcome to join us. ;)

devildeac
11-27-2017, 12:19 AM
I see 6-0 at home, 4-2 on the road.

But that's just me. :)

I talked to Ozzie. He sees 6-0 at home, 6-0 on the road and 3-0 at neutral sites. :p

ehdg
11-27-2017, 02:40 AM
I see 6-0 at home, 4-2 on the road.

But that's just me. :)

I agree and if things break right see us also at 4-2 on the road.

I could see us going 6 - 0 at home but more likely 5 -1 is more realistic.
Specially being we have 2 teams we'd love to pay back for losing to this past season in Army and specially UVA!!

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-27-2017, 07:02 AM
Athlon predicted us at 4-8, 2-6 in the ACC. CBS Sports had 7 experts picking, 5 of which picked us 6th out of 7 in the Coastal. Few neutral experts predicted a bowl for Duke this year, or the year before, or the year before, or ...

I love Cut's enthusiasm and appreciate that he's upgraded our talent, but we're still on the bottom end of ACC recruiting rankings just about every year.

We easily could have won another game or 2 this year, but I'm not complaining.

I brought this up several times this season. This Duke team actually exceeded expectations of most experts, no matter how frustrated some fans here were midseason when we were in a slump.

This team was a victim of early success and inflated fan expectations as a result. Duke didn't have the horses to compete for an ACC championship this year - especially with Miami having such a great year.

6-6 is a great accomplishment for this crew. 7-6 would be even better. Coach Cut has effectively raised the bar for Duke football fans, which is fantastic. Let's just not forget where we were ten years ago.

OldPhiKap
11-27-2017, 07:14 AM
I brought this up several times this season. This Duke team actually exceeded expectations of most experts, no matter how frustrated some fans here were midseason when we were in a slump.

This team was a victim of early success and inflated fan expectations as a result. Duke didn't have the horses to compete for an ACC championship this year - especially with Miami having such a great year.

6-6 is a great accomplishment for this crew. 7-6 would be even better. Coach Cut has effectively raised the bar for Duke football fans, which is fantastic. Let's just not forget where we were ten years ago.

IIRC the over-under line on wins in Vegas was 5.5 so we hit the “over”

Anyway, in my mind we are 0-0 with only one game to play. Past is past. We either win a bowl championship or we do not. Keep marching forward!

Reilly
11-27-2017, 11:17 AM
Here are projections from the Sporting News:

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/news/college-football-bowl-predictions-week-14-auburn-clemson-oklahoma-wisconsin-alabama-ohio-state/74aojjwfjgr61ue3lwvh12e2k

SCMatt33
11-27-2017, 11:29 AM
Here are projections from the Sporting News:

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/news/college-football-bowl-predictions-week-14-auburn-clemson-oklahoma-wisconsin-alabama-ohio-state/74aojjwfjgr61ue3lwvh12e2k

Can't lend much credibility to their picks as they send ACC teams to both the Taxslayer and Music City Bowls, which is not possible. They also have ND in a NY6 game, which while possible, certainly has a huge effect on the other ACC bids.

Reilly
11-27-2017, 07:56 PM
Duke/SMU in Birmingham:

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/11/26/2017-college-football-bowl-projections-after-week-13/

Reilly
11-27-2017, 08:00 PM
1989 re-visited: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/college/college-gridiron-365/os-sp-college-football-bowl-projections-2017-htmlstory.html

blazindw
11-27-2017, 08:05 PM
Extra mashed potatoes coming your way this holiday!

In case anyone else is using that metric:

Birmingham — 4 hour drive
Tampa — 7.5 hour drive. About same time as flight by the time I factor in lay-over, car rental, etc.
Annapolis — 8.5 hours but with traffic probably 50. So Delta has to be ready when I am. Not sure of public transport from airports to the site but maybe DC Duke chapter chartering a bus or something.
Shreveport — 10 long, straight, dull hours to drive. Have to fly. Or hole up in the casino for a few days to sleep off the drive.
Detroit — fly out on Christmas? And hope for no blizzard complicating travel? Detroit is a really neat city but I’m gonna have trouble making that one.

Not that I’ve given it any thought today, of course.

If the Military Bowl is our bowl, I doubt we will charter a bus, but I could look into it. My fear is that it will be too cost prohibitive to driving out to Annapolis. We will likely set up a tailgate of some sort though.

peloton
11-27-2017, 08:42 PM
1989 re-visited: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/college/college-gridiron-365/os-sp-college-football-bowl-projections-2017-htmlstory.html

I certainly hope not. I'm sure others here had the "pleasure" also of being at The All-American bowl that year in Birmingham, AL. I drove down with a friend and sat through that debacle of a game. The only positive (and I mean the only positive) thing about the trip was seeing a game in that historic stadium and the bust of a coach who apparently was a pretty good one, some guy named Bear Bryant :rolleyes:.

I won't say I'm sorry I went to our last game with Steve Spurrier as head coach, but it sure left a bad taste in my mouth for a good while. We were absolutely dominated by Texas Tech which I didn't see coming, even with The Ol' Ball Coach announcing that he was headed to Florida.

OZZIE4DUKE
11-27-2017, 08:49 PM
I see 6-0 at home, 4-2 on the road.

But that's just me. :)


I talked to Ozzie. He sees 6-0 at home, 6-0 on the road and 3-0 at neutral sites. :p
Yup! 15-0 baby!

I tried to Zpork you both but the system wouldn’t let me! LGD GTHc!

peloton
11-27-2017, 09:41 PM
IIRC the over-under line on wins in Vegas was 5.5 so we hit the “over”

Anyway, in my mind we are 0-0 with only one game to play. Past is past. We either win a bowl championship or we do not. Keep marching forward!

That's the correct mindset, OldPhiKap! The Wake Forest win was the end of the regular season - we're done with that. It's time to move forward into the post season - let's take care of business no matter the opponent or location.

AustinDevil
11-27-2017, 10:00 PM
I certainly hope not. I'm sure others here had the "pleasure" also of being at The All-American bowl that year in Birmingham, AL. I drove down with a friend and sat through that debacle of a game. The only positive (and I mean the only positive) thing about the trip was seeing a game in that historic stadium and the bust of a coach who apparently was a pretty good one, some guy named Bear Bryant :rolleyes:.

I won't say I'm sorry I went to our last game with Steve Spurrier as head coach, but it sure left a bad taste in my mouth for a good while. We were absolutely dominated by Texas Tech which I didn't see coming, even with The Ol' Ball Coach announcing that he was headed to Florida.

I was there. I almost felt hopeful when we scored 14 straight after giving up the first 28, but it very quickly went south again. Spike Dykes was a good coach, and our good coach had clearly checked out before the kickoff.

75Crazie
11-27-2017, 11:03 PM
I won't say I'm sorry I went to our last game with Steve Spurrier as head coach, but it sure left a bad taste in my mouth for a good while.
That bad taste has stuck with me to this day. It was obvious to me that Spurrier left Duke behind well before that bowl game ... the team looked very ill-prepared for that game. And his later history has only cemented my opinion of him, including the very last chapter where he completely quit mid-season on his final South Carolina team. I really see nothing at all glorious about him or his career.

sagegrouse
11-27-2017, 11:34 PM
That bad taste has stuck with me to this day. It was obvious to me that Spurrier left Duke behind well before that bowl game ... the team looked very ill-prepared for that game. And his later history has only cemented my opinion of him, including the very last chapter where he completely quit mid-season on his final South Carolina team. I really see nothing at all glorious about him or his career.

I guess I disagree totally, but I don't want to continue the conversation.

Reilly
11-28-2017, 01:04 AM
http://www.roanoke.com/sports/uva/military-bowl-executive-likes-idea-of-virginia-navy-matchup/article_c71ea168-c9d1-59c1-a350-39a3bfe8147d.html

budwom
11-28-2017, 07:57 AM
That bad taste has stuck with me to this day. It was obvious to me that Spurrier left Duke behind well before that bowl game ... the team looked very ill-prepared for that game. And his later history has only cemented my opinion of him, including the very last chapter where he completely quit mid-season on his final South Carolina team. I really see nothing at all glorious about him or his career.

I still very much like the old ball coach, and what he did for Duke back then. But I do share your intense displeasure that he totally abandoned Duke before the bowl, despite his physical presence. That team was playing at a very high level, and could well have won the bowl had coach taken it seriously.

jimsumner
11-28-2017, 12:06 PM
I still very much like the old ball coach, and what he did for Duke back then. But I do share your intense displeasure that he totally abandoned Duke before the bowl, despite his physical presence. That team was playing at a very high level, and could well have won the bowl had coach taken it seriously.

My understanding is that Duke only practiced two or three times leading up to that bowl game.

OldPhiKap
11-28-2017, 12:32 PM
My understanding is that Duke only practiced two or three times leading up to that bowl game.

We went to celebrate. They came to play. It was pretty obvious. Did not know about the lack of practice but not surprised.

Still thankful for SS despite the bowl fiasco, and he has always been loyal to us since going home to coach his alma mater.

sagegrouse
11-28-2017, 12:40 PM
We went to celebrate. They came to play. It was pretty obvious. Did not know about the lack of practice but not surprised.

Still thankful for SS despite the bowl fiasco, and he has always been loyal to us since going home to coach his alma mater.

Well, this was also the demise of the Southwest Conference, IIRC, and Texas Tech was highly motivated. But, I am in the tank for Spurrier because of what he did at Duke.

Lar77
11-28-2017, 12:42 PM
We went to celebrate. They came to play. It was pretty obvious. Did not know about the lack of practice but not surprised.

Still thankful for SS despite the bowl fiasco, and he has always been loyal to us since going home to coach his alma mater.

Agree with OPK in both observations.

Spurrier has continued to be supportive of Duke even 20+ years and 3 HC jobs later.

OldPhiKap
11-28-2017, 12:46 PM
Agree with OPK in both observations.

Spurrier has continued to be supportive of Duke even 20+ years and 3 HC jobs later.

When he was with the Redskins, Steve said that his wife had two stickers on her car — Duke and Florida.

sagegrouse
11-28-2017, 12:49 PM
Agree with OPK in both observations.

Spurrier has continued to be supportive of Duke even 20+ years and 3 HC jobs later.

After his time at Duke, Spurrier always had a Duke helmet on the bookshelf in his office -- emblematic of the 1989 ACC championship.

Kindly,
Sage
'At South Carolina he had helmets for Duke, Florida, and the Tampa Bay Bandits [USFL], but not the Washington Redskins'

Olympic Fan
11-28-2017, 01:00 PM
My understanding is that Duke only practiced two or three times leading up to that bowl game.

That's not the first time that happened to Duke.

In 1941, the undefeated Blue Devils accepted a bid to the Rose Bowl -- a week before Pearl Harbor.

In the aftermath of the attack, when most of the Duke players contemplated their coming enlistments, they went to Wallace Wade and asked him to cancel the game so they could spend one more Christmas with their families before going off to war. Wade, who was busy arranging the transfer of the game from Pasadena to Durham, offered a compromise. He allowed his players to go home through Christmas. They got together again afterwards and only had a handful of practices before the game ... and Duke's sloppy play was the result.

The opposite was 1960. Duke started 7-1 with a victory over No. 2 Navy and was to be offered the Cotton Bowl after the game with UNC. Duke lost to the Heels (not sure if they were cheating then), 7-6, but still got the bowl offer, Then Duke traveled to the West Coast for a late national TV game with UCLA and were routed by Gary Beban and the Bruins. Coach Bill Murray was furious and put the team through the pre-bowl workout from hell. The team responded with a 7-6 victory over Lance Alworth and Arkansas in the bowl, but the players were left with such bad memories that two years later, when an 8-2 Duke team (one loss was a 14-7 loss at Southern Cal, which won the national title) was offered the Gator Bowl, the players turned it down.

RPS
11-28-2017, 01:11 PM
Then Duke traveled to the West Coast for a late national TV game with UCLA and were routed by Gary Beban and the Bruins.Something about your memory is off here. Beban (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/gary-beban-1.html) graduated in 1968.

75Crazie
11-28-2017, 01:20 PM
I guess I'm still curious as to how the Spurrier supporters feel about his actions last year at South Carolina. I personally thought the manner in which he left was disgraceful, and says a lot about him as a person.

Olympic Fan
11-28-2017, 01:21 PM
Something about your memory is off here. Beban (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/gary-beban-1.html) graduated in 1968.

You are right ... It was Billy Kilmer (the guy who replaced Sonny Jurgenson as QB of the Redskins), who decimated Duke that afternoon in 1960. As I remember, UCLA was still running the Single Wing in 1960 with Kilmer as tailback.

My bad ...

OldPhiKap
11-28-2017, 01:30 PM
I guess I'm still curious as to how the Spurrier supporters feel about his actions last year at South Carolina. I personally thought the manner in which he left was disgraceful, and says a lot about him as a person.

I think he did it so that his assistant could audition for the job if he did well as the interim head ball coach. At least that was the story around these parts.

AustinDevil
11-28-2017, 01:38 PM
Well, this was also the demise of the Southwest Conference, IIRC, and Texas Tech was highly motivated. But, I am in the tank for Spurrier because of what he did at Duke.

Whatever motivated TTech, it was not the collapse of the SWC.

The demise was 1994 and it became public in 1993. Even Arkansas' coming departure in 1991 wasn't known at the time of the All-American Bowl. Tech in 1989 was just happy to be in the SWC, having only been allowed in in 1970--much more recent then than Florida State's admission to the ACC is today.

RPS
11-28-2017, 01:41 PM
You are right ... It was Billy Kilmer (the guy who replaced Sonny Jurgenson as QB of the Redskins), who decimated Duke that afternoon in 1960. As I remember, UCLA was still running the Single Wing in 1960 with Kilmer as tailback.

My bad ...It's no big deal but is a funny coincidence. I remember the time periods because I watched Beban in the 1966 Rose Bowl on television. I heard Bill Walton mention Beban and the Rose Bowl during the dying moments of the UNC wipeout on Sunday. And then you.

By the way, Beban and Steve Spurrier became friends (http://www.latimes.com/sports/ucla/la-sp-ucla-beban-heisman-20170826-story.html) because of the Heisman (he is the only Bruin to have won it). Also, Beban was an exceptional student. He would have fit in well at Duke.

Reilly
11-28-2017, 01:44 PM
I guess I'm still curious as to how the Spurrier supporters feel about his actions last year at South Carolina. I personally thought the manner in which he left was disgraceful, and says a lot about him as a person.

I'm a big Spurrier supporter. I think he knows when to leave. He quit the Redskins and left, literally, $10 million on the table. He could have waited to be fired, but just said forget it, this isn't working out, and walked. I believe at South Carolina, he saw how things were going, and knew they would not be getting any better, and he wasn't helping the situation, so it was time. He's a winner; he also hates to be thought of as a loser -- with that mindset, it's better to just rip the Band-Aid off during his last season at South Carolina mid-season rather than have some maudlin' "HBC doesn't have it any more" type of tour playing out the string. Is it self-centered? Yeah, but many of us are self-centered a large part of the time, as well, it seems to me. SOS can be arrogant, petulant, thin-skinned, a tad mean-spirited, too competitive -- in other words, a glorious human and helluva ball coach, and I'm glad we claim him.

OZ
11-28-2017, 01:56 PM
My understanding is that Duke only practiced two or three times leading up to that bowl game.

I was at the game and our seats were around some of the Duke players' parents. There were complaining before the game started about the team's lack of preparation; which included few practices... little contact practices... Spurrier's lack of attention.
The following morning, readying to board the bus home, others had seen Spurrier on television being interviewed about the Florida job. Seems he had been contacted in October and had expressed interest. His new job was announced two days later.
I didn't blame him for taking the job. I just didn't like the way it went down for us. He is not one of my favorites.

sagegrouse
11-28-2017, 01:58 PM
I guess I'm still curious as to how the Spurrier supporters feel about his actions last year at South Carolina. I personally thought the manner in which he left was disgraceful, and says a lot about him as a person.

I am OK with his abrupt departure from South Carolina. He was 70-years-old, was having a lousy season, and was going to retire at the end of the year. He had a discussion with the AD, and he left mid-season. After a lifetime of accomplishments, he earned the right to retire whenever he wanted to -- Heisman trophy, ten years in the NFL, championships in the USFL, at Duke, and at Florida (and really torquing a lot of people off). I mean, didn't he have three top-ten teams at South Carolina (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/steve-spurrier-1.html)?

budwom
11-28-2017, 02:07 PM
^ and I'd love to have him as a part time offensive consultant at Duke...my plan was to give him a million bucks for the last four games of the season (ok, that ship has sailed), a helicopter to take him to whatever golf course he wants to play each morning, and no duties after the last game. Well worth the money.

p.s. I still recall the offensive game he called when Ben Bennett was at Duke, I think it was 1982. He beat unc in the finale, and they (unc) ended up in the top 20.
UNC had some really good defensive players, and Spurrier kept them off balance all afternoon. It was a thing of beauty.

RPS
11-28-2017, 02:08 PM
SOS can be arrogant, petulant, thin-skinned, a tad mean-spirited, too competitive...I remember that from playing hoops with him at Card.

Reilly
11-28-2017, 02:10 PM
Rather than a coach who quits mid-season (and I do wish SOS had stayed all year; and when Lefty left mid-year, he had a cold), what bugs me is when schools fire a coach mid-year or toward the end of the year and do not let the coaches enjoy the bowl with their players (some of whom they've been with for five years). Schools sometimes do this to get a jump on the coaching search. It all just seems needlessly cruel or unnecessary -- yay, let's fire them at Thanksgiving or around Xmas.

I've wondered if there could be some sort of "open season" for coaching changes where nothing happens during the season, then the movement all takes place during the last three weeks of January. Move national signing day to later in February. Let those players who committed in the early (December?) signing period re-open recruitment if their coach is fired or changes jobs. Have the process be a bit more orderly. Let coaches finish the season they started with their players, absent any law-breaking or morals clause violation. Of course, Duke fired Franks mid-season strictly for football-related reasons.

75Crazie
11-28-2017, 02:12 PM
After a lifetime of accomplishments, he earned the right to retire whenever he wanted to [/URL]?
I wonder if the players on the team would have agreed with that statement. Those are the people that I believe he really let down.

Olympic Fan
11-28-2017, 02:17 PM
It's no big deal but is a funny coincidence. I remember the time periods because I watched Beban in the 1966 Rose Bowl on television. I heard Bill Walton mention Beban and the Rose Bowl during the dying moments of the UNC wipeout on Sunday. And then you.

By the way, Beban and Steve Spurrier became friends (http://www.latimes.com/sports/ucla/la-sp-ucla-beban-heisman-20170826-story.html) because of the Heisman (he is the only Bruin to have won it). Also, Beban was an exceptional student. He would have fit in well at Duke.

Well, as long as we're going down this path, you know who Beban's coach at UCLA was, right?

Tommy Prothro was the "quarterback" for Duke's 1941 Rose Bowl team -- the one we were just talked about. I put quarterback in quotes because the single wing quarterback was nothing like the modern t-formation (of shotgun) quarterback. Prothro was essentially a blocking back, winning the Jacobs' Blocking Trophy for the Southern Conference.

After enlisting in the Navy for WWII, where he served as gunnery officer on the escort carrier Breton, Prothro went into coaching.

Ironically, his first head job was at Oregon State -- the team that beat Duke in the 1942 Rose Bowl. He took over a team that won just one game in 1954 and by 1957 had them in the Rose Bowl (for the first time since 1942). A few years later, he coached Heisman Trophy winner Terry Baker.

He went to UCLA as head coach in 1965 and got the Bruins into the 1966 Rose Bowl. He later coached Beban to the Heisman and later still coached the Rams, then the Chargers.

Prothro always wore a suit and tie on the sidelines and carried a briefcase during the entire game.

jimsumner
11-28-2017, 02:31 PM
Well, as long as we're going down this path, you know who Beban's coach at UCLA was, right?

Tommy Prothro was the "quarterback" for Duke's 1941 Rose Bowl team -- the one we were just talked about. I put quarterback in quotes because the single wing quarterback was nothing like the modern t-formation (of shotgun) quarterback. Prothro was essentially a blocking back, winning the Jacobs' Blocking Trophy for the Southern Conference.

After enlisting in the Navy for WWII, where he served as gunnery officer on the escort carrier Breton, Prothro went into coaching.

Ironically, his first head job was at Oregon State -- the team that beat Duke in the 1942 Rose Bowl. He took over a team that won just one game in 1954 and by 1957 had them in the Rose Bowl (for the first time since 1942). A few years later, he coached Heisman Trophy winner Terry Baker.

He went to UCLA as head coach in 1965 and got the Bruins into the 1966 Rose Bowl. He later coached Beban to the Heisman and later still coached the Rams, then the Chargers.

Prothro always wore a suit and tie on the sidelines and carried a briefcase during the entire game.

Well, as long as we're going down that road, v.2 Heisman Trophy winner Terry Baker also played basketball for Oregon State, which lost the consolation game in the 1963 Final Four to Duke's first Final Four team.

As far as I know, Kevin Bacon was not involved.

But, try that on for size. In the same academic year, Terry Baker won the Heisman Trophy and started on a Final Four team.

After that, he went to the NFL and drifted into total obscurity. But that was a heck of a sixth months.

RPS
11-28-2017, 02:32 PM
Well, as long as we're going down this path, you know who Beban's coach at UCLA was, right?Beban was called the "Great One" at UCLA, a nickname allegedly bestowed on him by Prothro (per a quote attributed to him in the annual Media Guide). Beban always claimed that Tommy would never have been so effusive. He was sure it was the PR people.

Olympic Fan
11-28-2017, 02:40 PM
Well, as long as we're going down that road, v.2 Heisman Trophy winner Terry Baker also played basketball for Oregon State, which lost the consolation game in the 1963 Final Four to Duke's first Final Four team.

As far as I know, Kevin Bacon was not involved.

But, try that on for size. In the same academic year, Terry Baker won the Heisman Trophy and started on a Final Four team.

After that, he went to the NFL and drifted into total obscurity. But that was a heck of a sixth months.

Good point ... Baker started and scored seven points in that game (3-11 from the floor). The real star of that OSU team was Mel Counts, the 7-foot center who had 25 points and 18 rebounds against the Devils. But Duke prevailed, thanks to 22 points from Heyman and a stunning 20 points from unheralded guard Fred Schmidt. Mullins had 14.

Amazingly, Heyman won the Final Four MVP Award, playing in the third-place game.

BandAlum83
11-28-2017, 02:42 PM
^ and I'd love to have him as a part time offensive consultant at Duke...my plan was to give him a million bucks for the last four games of the season (ok, that ship has sailed), a helicopter to take him to whatever golf course he wants to play each morning, and no duties after the last game. Well worth the money.

p.s. I still recall the offensive game he called when Ben Bennett was at Duke, I think it was 1982. He beat unc in the finale, and they (unc) ended up in the top 20.
UNC had some really good defensive players, and Spurrier kept them off balance all afternoon. It was a thing of beauty.

I still have a piece of the goal post that was torn down and cut up after that game .

I think there are a few other regular posters out here who also got pieces.

BandAlum83
11-28-2017, 02:47 PM
Well, as long as we're going down this path, you know who Beban's coach at UCLA was, right?

Tommy Prothro was the "quarterback" for Duke's 1941 Rose Bowl team -- the one we were just talked about. I put quarterback in quotes because the single wing quarterback was nothing like the modern t-formation (of shotgun) quarterback. Prothro was essentially a blocking back, winning the Jacobs' Blocking Trophy for the Southern Conference.

After enlisting in the Navy for WWII, where he served as gunnery officer on the escort carrier Breton, Prothro went into coaching.

Ironically, his first head job was at Oregon State -- the team that beat Duke in the 1942 Rose Bowl. He took over a team that won just one game in 1954 and by 1957 had them in the Rose Bowl (for the first time since 1942). A few years later, he coached Heisman Trophy winner Terry Baker.

He went to UCLA as head coach in 1965 and got the Bruins into the 1966 Rose Bowl. He later coached Beban to the Heisman and later still coached the Rams, then the Chargers.

Prothro always wore a suit and tie on the sidelines and carried a briefcase during the entire game.

This is the origin of the term "the nuclear football" that is still in use today when referring to the nuclear launch codes carried in a briefcase by secret service within reach of The President.

True Story...

grad_devil
11-28-2017, 03:10 PM
As far as I know, Kevin Bacon was not involved.

From the "Did You Know" and "Useless Trivia" realm - The Oracle of Bacon (https://oracleofbacon.org/) has a Duke connection. The guy who rebuilt and maintains it is got his PhD (Computer Science) from Duke; we were classmates.

It's always fun to play "who has the highest Bacon Number"...

allenmurray
11-28-2017, 03:15 PM
I guess I'm still curious as to how the Spurrier supporters feel about his actions last year at South Carolina. I personally thought the manner in which he left was disgraceful, and says a lot about him as a person.

I'm thinking none of us would appreciate having the entirety of our life evaluated by on our worst decision.

Reilly
11-28-2017, 09:05 PM
This is the set of bowl projections I had been waiting on, as McMurphy is actually a great reporter w/ sources and he does his homework:

https://www.thescore.com/ncaaf/news/1429484

NFL stadium ... Big 12 opponent as opposed to some MACtion ... get 1989 washed out of our mouths ...

I had forgotten Steve Sloan coached Texas Tech.

Reilly
11-28-2017, 09:55 PM
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2017/11/28/bowl-projections-wisconsin-auburn-move-into-college-football-playoff-field/900204001/

Reilly
11-29-2017, 10:32 AM
St. Pete (12/21)

espn - SoMiss

Birmingham (12/23)

usatoday - Temple
nbc - SMU
si - Memphis
cbs - Memphis

Detroit (12/26)

mcmurphy - Texas Tech
tsn - NIU
cfn - CMU
sbsnation - CMU
espn - Akron
giglio - (no opp listed)

Shreveport (12/27)

orl sentinel - Texas Tech

At-large

lville courier journal

budwom
11-29-2017, 12:19 PM
^good job, Reilly. I could see liking Detroit City, but the day is a horrible one for travel, Shreveport not much better (12/26 and 12/27).

Reilly
11-29-2017, 12:35 PM
^good job, Reilly. I could see liking Detroit City, but the day is a horrible one for travel, Shreveport not much better (12/26 and 12/27).

Fly late Christmas night (could even fly in the morning of 12/26 as game not till 5:15 pm). The ACC hotel is walking distance to Ford Field. Seems like a lively area downtown. Apparently 15-year old Ford Field had a $100 million facelift recently.

budwom
11-29-2017, 12:56 PM
I like the venue, just leaving on Christmas is not an option, tickets pretty pricey for traveling 12/26...(there is a direct flight from VT which would be nice)...but first things first...

Turk
11-29-2017, 09:38 PM
I still have a piece of the goal post that was torn down and cut up after that game .

I think there are a few other regular posters out here who also got pieces.

I didn't get a piece of the goalpost, but I did get a picture with a couple of buddies in front of the goalposts when they were propped up against the front entrance to the Chapel.

Reilly
11-30-2017, 07:40 AM
http://sunbowl.org/news/130-selection-sunday-for-all-college-bowl-games-set-for-dec-3

Guessing the word will filter out before then.

BandAlum83
11-30-2017, 09:57 AM
I didn't get a piece of the goalpost, but I did get a picture with a couple of buddies in front of the goalposts when they were propped up against the front entrance to the Chapel.

I'm pretty sure I was in a few of those pictures. I don't have any, however.

devildeac
11-30-2017, 10:24 AM
I didn't get a piece of the goalpost, but I did get a picture with a couple of buddies in front of the goalposts when they were propped up against the front entrance to the Chapel.

Your buddies or the goalposts? ;):rolleyes:

OZZIE4DUKE
11-30-2017, 11:14 AM
I still have a piece of the goal post that was torn down and cut up after that game .

I think there are a few other regular posters out here who also got pieces.


I didn't get a piece of the goalpost, but I did get a picture with a couple of buddies in front of the goalposts when they were propped up against the front entrance to the Chapel.


I'm pretty sure I was in a few of those pictures. I don't have any, however.

I think I remember cutting the post on the quad with a hacksaw, but maybe I was just watching it being done.

Hmmm, I just looked and I have a "few" pics! See if you can find yourselves! It may take more than one post to upload a small sample of what I have! http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7861&stc=1http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7862&stc=1http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7863&stc=1http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7864&stc=1

OZZIE4DUKE
11-30-2017, 11:17 AM
Here's a few more pics.
http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7867&stc=1http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7868&stc=1http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7869&stc=1http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7866&stc=1

BandAlum83
11-30-2017, 11:18 AM
I think I remember cutting the post on the quad with a hacksaw, but maybe I was just watching it being done.

Hmmm, I just looked and I have a "few" pics! See if you can find yourselves! It may take more than one post to upload a small sample of what I have! http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7861&stc=1http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7862&stc=1http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7863&stc=1http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7864&stc=1

What year was this? It looks like a different time period and why is the goalpost yellow?

Edit...another pic loaded. It shows a 2003 date on a bumper sticker or something. I thought we were taking about a Carolina game during the Ben Bennett / Steve Spurier as O-Coordinator

OZZIE4DUKE
11-30-2017, 11:21 AM
What year was this? It looks like a different time period and why is the goalpost yellow?

Edit...another pic loaded. It shows a 2003 date on a bumper sticker or something. I thought we were taking about a Carolina game during the Ben Bennett / Steve Spurier as O-Coordinator

Might be 2003, but I'm not sure. I am pretty sure it was the second time I helped carry goal posts up to the quad, and that's why I took pictures (in a pre cell phone cameras era)!

wilson
11-30-2017, 11:25 AM
Might be 2003, but I'm not sure. I am pretty sure it was the second time I helped carry goal posts up to the quad, and that's why I took pictures (in a pre cell phone cameras era)!It is 2003...we beat GA Tech to win our first ACC football game in four years (http://www.espn.com/college-football/recap?gameId=233120150).

OldPhiKap
11-30-2017, 11:27 AM
I know that when we beat Indiana the first game of the ‘84-‘85 season, the goalpost was torn down and set up in front of the ATO section on West.

Uncle Terry was not amused.

jv001
11-30-2017, 11:44 AM
It is 2003...we beat GA Tech to win our first ACC football game in four years (http://www.espn.com/college-football/recap?gameId=233120150).

The Yellow Jacket fans in the pictures seemed to be pretty good sports. How did you get those fans to pose in your shot. Let's hope we get to see more days like those. Starting in 2018 since our bowl game will not be at Wallace Wade. GoDuke!

Hingeknocker
11-30-2017, 12:17 PM
It is 2003...we beat GA Tech to win our first ACC football game in four years (http://www.espn.com/college-football/recap?gameId=233120150).

That was my freshman year - great memories from that game and tearing down the goalposts. I still don't know how we finagled the huge posts around the back of the Chapel and through those small archways. Carrying part of it all the way to East Campus seemed like a phenomenal idea, until we were about halfway there and realized how long it would take. Still totally worth it.

I also believe that was the game where our feeble squad of students tried to tear down the second set of goalposts, but the small-ish group of security were able to politely suggest that one was enough.

wilson
11-30-2017, 12:31 PM
That was my freshman year - great memories from that game and tearing down the goalposts. I still don't know how we finagled the huge posts around the back of the Chapel and through those small archways. Carrying part of it all the way to East Campus seemed like a phenomenal idea, until we were about halfway there and realized how long it would take. Still totally worth it.

I also believe that was the game where our feeble squad of students tried to tear down the second set of goalposts, but the small-ish group of security were able to politely suggest that one was enough.That was my senior year. I did not participate in this particular post-dismantlement, but I was present for the 2002 dismantlement following a victory over East Carolina, snapping a 23-game losing streak (at the midpoint of my undergrad years, we had won more basketball national championships than football games during my time on campus). It rained cats and dogs for that entire game...I think my socks are still wet.

Reilly
11-30-2017, 12:40 PM
He's updated his projections on Facebook. Now has Duke v. NIU in Detroit.

He still lists FSU in the Independence Bowl against Southern Miss, but notes that FSU is lobbying hard for the St. Pete/Gasparilla Bowl (meaning all the ACC tie-in bowls would have to pass on FSU). He notes "[t]his one could get interesting."

wilson
11-30-2017, 02:05 PM
He's updated his projections on Facebook. Now has Duke v. NIU in Detroit.

He still lists FSU in the Independence Bowl against Southern Miss, but notes that FSU is lobbying hard for the St. Pete/Gasparilla Bowl (meaning all the ACC tie-in bowls would have to pass on FSU). He notes "[t]his one could get interesting."Ahem, that's the Bad Boy Mowers Gasparilla Bowl to you, thankyouverymuch.

OldPhiKap
11-30-2017, 02:09 PM
Ahem, that's the Bad Boy Mowers Gasparilla Bowl to you, thankyouverymuch.

Interesting that ESPN Events owns the bowl. Is that unusual?

JasonEvans
11-30-2017, 02:44 PM
Here's a few more pics.
http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7867&stc=1http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7868&stc=1

There is very familiar face front and center in those two photos. Our own BlazinDW!

blazindw
11-30-2017, 03:09 PM
Here's a few more pics.
http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7867&stc=1http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7868&stc=1http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7869&stc=1http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7866&stc=1

Oh man Ozzie, taking me back...luckily I look basically the same now as I did then! November 8, 2003, 41-17 Duke over GT. And here's the top of that goalpost still in my apartment today!

7870

Reilly
11-30-2017, 03:28 PM
Ahem, that's the Bad Boy Mowers Gasparilla Bowl to you, thankyouverymuch.


Interesting that ESPN Events owns the bowl. Is that unusual?

So we have an Arkansas lawn mower company sponsoring a Florida bowl played on artificial turf.

https://www.badboymowers.com/introducing-the-bad-boy-mowers-gasparilla-bowl

I believe I read that the Independence Bowl started the corporate bowl-naming trend with the infamous Poulan Weedeater Independence Bowl. Interesting we're still in the lawn care aisle these many years later.

Reilly
12-01-2017, 07:47 AM
First time I've seen a Big 10 team mentioned as a possible opponent:

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/nc-state/state-now/article187063883.html

Turk
12-01-2017, 03:45 PM
What year was this? It looks like a different time period and why is the goalpost yellow?

Edit...another pic loaded. It shows a 2003 date on a bumper sticker or something. I thought we were taking about a Carolina game during the Ben Bennett / Steve Spurier as O-Coordinator

I had the same reaction - "wait, I'm positive those goalposts were white!"

Turk
12-01-2017, 03:47 PM
Your buddies or the goalposts? ;):rolleyes:

I'll go with C - "Both". Final answer, Regis.

(We can always lean on the church in both good times and bad!)

Chicago 1995
12-01-2017, 03:56 PM
I'll go with C - "Both". Final answer, Regis.

(We can always lean on the church in both good times and bad!)

I've got a piece of the goalposts from 1994 when we beat UVA to go to 8-1 on the season. No pics, but interesting to know that others have other pieces of goalposts from different eras.

YmoBeThere
12-01-2017, 06:23 PM
I believe a set of goalposts were taken down in '89 when we defeated 7th ranked Clemson at home. For some reason, I was not on campus that weekend. (Thanks ROTC!)

Reilly
12-02-2017, 12:10 AM
https://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/bowls/predictions

Reilly
12-02-2017, 12:46 AM
https://www.facebook.com/TheBrettMcMurphy/posts/1761438743880182

BC getting non-ACC bowl.

budwom
12-02-2017, 09:08 AM
I can't wait to see where Duke plays, but right now I'm pretty convinced that there are too many variables in play to determine what's going on....all should be revealed by tomorrow.
The dominoes start falling this afternoon.

PDDuke85
12-02-2017, 09:36 AM
I can't wait to see where Duke plays, but right now I'm pretty convinced that there are too many variables in play to determine what's going on...all should be revealed by tomorrow.
The dominoes start falling this afternoon.

For very selfish reasons, an inflexible work schedule driving the train, hoping for Birmingham. Hoping also the bowl game gods allows the sentiment of Coach Cut coming home with his team to factor in.

Regardless of the destination, 7-6 shortens the winter. Go Duke.

AustinDevil
12-02-2017, 11:04 AM
The Duke-to-Detroit theme is pretty steady, and I wonder if it isn't partially based on Duke's multi-year willingness to pitch in money for tickets at remote games, like the tickets given away to Fort Bliss service members for the Sun Bowl. If no ACC team is going to sell a ton of tickets to their own fans, one of the more distant bowls might as well take Duke and know they'll have some guaranteed ticket sales. I still think this is a good ticket/attractiveness strategy for Duke, but I do wonder if it will sometimes bite us by sending us further away. And if we do get a directional Michigan school, it's basically an away game.

hallcity
12-02-2017, 11:15 AM
The Duke-to-Detroit theme is pretty steady, and I wonder if it isn't partially based on Duke's multi-year willingness to pitch in money for tickets at remote games, like the tickets given away to Fort Bliss service members for the Sun Bowl. If no ACC team is going to sell a ton of tickets to their own fans, one of the more distant bowls might as well take Duke and know they'll have some guaranteed ticket sales. I still think this is a good ticket/attractiveness strategy for Duke, but I do wonder if it will sometimes bite us by sending us further away. And if we do get a directional Michigan school, it's basically an away game.

Why would Duke guarantee ticket sales for the bowl game in Detroit? It's not like that bowl game has any option. They have to take whichever team is left and it looks like that's Duke this year.

Reilly
12-02-2017, 11:42 AM
For very selfish reasons, an inflexible work schedule driving the train ...

No job is worth missing a trip to 30-degree Detroit on Christmas night to be ready to see the Devils play a MAC opponent. Seems like this is one of those "a-ha" moments in your life that will make you wonder how you got so jammed up, and will lead to a major life change.

OldPhiKap
12-02-2017, 11:52 AM
No job is worth missing a trip to 30-degree Detroit on Christmas night to be ready to see the Devils play a MAC opponent. Seems like this is one of those "a-ha" moments in your life that will make you wonder how you got so jammed up, and will lead to a major life change.

“When keeping it real goes wrong”