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View Full Version : MBB: Duke 116, Bowie St 53 - Post-Game Thread (Pre-Season)



-jk
11-04-2017, 04:14 PM
Odd game. Rotations I (mostly) hope we never see again - we were really clueless whenever Grayson was on the bench.

We hit 17 of 22 FTs.

Two Bolden rebounds away from 4 double-doubles.

-jk

BandAlum83
11-04-2017, 04:35 PM
I just started watching the replay.

Did someone have a talk with Trent?

A couple of early 3s and no midrange. Nice.

LasVegas
11-04-2017, 04:39 PM
Three things I liked:

1) I think Trent will be able to hit catch and shoot threes very well.
2) Carter has been overlooked. From my perspective, he looks more polished than our other bigs.
3) Bolden looked awesome. Small team that was way overmatched but he played BIG and STRONG. He needs to channel his inner animal.

BandAlum83
11-04-2017, 04:46 PM
Three things I liked:

1) I think Trent will be able to hit catch and shoot threes very well.
2) Carter has been overlooked. From my perspective, he looks more polished than our other bigs.
3) Bolden looked awesome. Small team that was way overmatched but he played BIG and STRONG. He needs to channel his inner animal.

4) Big to Big passing.

TruBlu
11-04-2017, 04:49 PM
4) Big to Big passing.

The most positive thing so far this season, out of many positive things.

Kedsy
11-04-2017, 04:55 PM
Biggest Duke lineup ever seen during a game:

Gary Trent: 6'6"
Javin DeLaurier: 6'10"
Wendell Carter: 6'10"
Marvin Bagley: 6'11"
Antonio Vrankovic: 7'0"

Then we took two of them out and subbed in with Marques Bolden (6'11") and Justin Robinson (6'9").

richardjackson199
11-04-2017, 05:10 PM
Obviously it's hard to draw many conclusions when playing an opponent that overmatched.

But I'll draw them anyway. We looked outstanding.

To those who are saying goodbye to Duke basketball, or DBR, all college hoops or whatever - it's your prerogative to spend your time however you want. Yes the NCAA sucks, OAD sucks, the cheats cheated, etc... But this team is going to be fun to watch, and I don't recommend missing this season. This team could be one for the ages.

BandAlum83
11-04-2017, 05:31 PM
The most positive thing so far this season, out of many positive things.

The other positive thing among the bigs this year is that they are all finishing with strength. No little in close lay ups or close floaters. I am seeing dunks with emphasis.

MartyClark
11-04-2017, 05:37 PM
I had a jerky video feed in the 2nd half and turned it off with about 9 minutes left.

I am very impressed with Bagley. He has the potential to be really good. Grayson looked good. Most of the guys looked good based on the inferior competition.

I haven't seen Duval yet and think he may be the key to great success this year. If he can run the offense, get the ball inside to the big guys, get the ball to Grayson on the wing - Duke is going to be very good.

I am looking forward to week of games starting on Friday. Go Duke!!

Furniture
11-04-2017, 05:38 PM
Obviously it's hard to draw many conclusions when playing an opponent that overmatched.

But I'll draw them anyway. We looked outstanding.

To those who are saying goodbye to Duke basketball, or DBR, all college hoops or whatever - it's your prerogative to spend your time however you want. Yes the NCAA sucks, OAD sucks, the cheats cheated, etc... But this team is going to be fun to watch, and I don't recommend missing this season. This team could be one for the ages.
I approve of this message! I could not spork you!

MChambers
11-04-2017, 05:44 PM
I haven't seen Duval yet and think he may be the key to great success this year. If he can run the offense, get the ball inside to the big guys, get the ball to Grayson on the wing - Duke is going to be very good.

And if he can pressure the other teamís point! He did that very well in the first exhibition.

jimsumner
11-04-2017, 06:03 PM
Duke played Bowie State in an exhibition game four years ago. This was the team with Parker and Hood.

IIRC, Duke led by three at the half.

And Bowie State was picked second in the CIAA North Division. So, there are even more over-matched D-2 teams out there.

And Bagley isn't going to be good. He's already well past good.

DukeFanSince1990
11-04-2017, 06:25 PM
Obviously it's hard to draw many conclusions when playing an opponent that overmatched.

But I'll draw them anyway. We looked outstanding.

To those who are saying goodbye to Duke basketball, or DBR, all college hoops or whatever - it's your prerogative to spend your time however you want. Yes the NCAA sucks, OAD sucks, the cheats cheated, etc... But this team is going to be fun to watch, and I don't recommend missing this season. This team could be one for the ages.

It is hard drawing conclusions, but free throws are the same no matter who you play. And that's looking good.

heyman25
11-04-2017, 06:34 PM
Obviously it's hard to draw many conclusions when playing an opponent that overmatched.

But I'll draw them anyway. We looked outstanding.

To those who are saying goodbye to Duke basketball, or DBR, all college hoops or whatever - it's your prerogative to spend your time however you want. Yes the NCAA sucks, OAD sucks, the cheats cheated, etc... But this team is going to be fun to watch, and I don't recommend missing this season. This team could be one for the ages. I plan on seeing as many games as I can. Time for Duval O'Connell and Goldwire to accept punishment and get ready on Monday. Character building.

MrPoon
11-04-2017, 09:41 PM
Fun game. Hard to draw comparisons to D1 ACC level teams but they came out and made the result clear from the tip which is what you want from a young team. Bagís length is just stunning as he moves around the court.
GA plays at such a high motor but his execution makes basketball look easy.
Earlier someone said Carter is polished. Absolutely agree. Overshadowed by Bagley and Duvalís commitments but he is a very special player and will be playing basketball for a long time. His game seems ageless.
Suprised by the minutes in the second half, White and Tucker still not getting the time I thought they might. Especially Tucker based on the recruiting buzz.
Guessing Javin was held out for something phisical. Nothing big but after the two quick fouls, didnít get much run so Iím guessing its something. Otherwise it would be the type of game heíd excel at.

Really big wasted opportunity for the three who missed the game. The type of game to really shine and gain valuable experience. Too bad.

4xduke
11-04-2017, 09:44 PM
In past years goduke had the opposing coach's press conference linked. Have they discontinued doing this, or is it just because the last two games were exhibitions?

kAzE
11-04-2017, 10:13 PM
3 guys being out makes it pretty tough to figure out much of anything when it comes to the rotation. Bowie State never had a chance, so definitely some inflated stats, but our guys shared the ball really well and the big lineups looked good. Marques had his best game in a Duke uniform, and Gary continues to look like a veteran. Wendell might be the best inside finisher we've had since Okafor. I think he's a strong favorite to lead the team in FG%.

Coach K's postgame comments did provide a couple of hints:

- He definitely will be playing 3 big lineups with some regularity. I think we all suspected this, but it's further affirmation. He also said we're going to play lots of zone with these lineups.

- He talked about Marvin first when he discussed one of the bigs playing on the perimeter in lineups with 3 bigs. This makes sense with what we've seen so far. Marvin has been handling the ball outside much more consistently than the other bigs, and Coach talked about how he's got to learn to defend on the perimeter now. He's definitely the 3 in those lineups.

- He mentioned needing Trevon and "Jordan coming off the bench" back to get back to the regular rotation, and in the context, I think it was pretty clear that he was talking about Goldwire. So, I think people who are expecting Goldwire to have a role in the rotation might be right.

Kedsy
11-04-2017, 10:13 PM
White and Tucker still not getting the time I thought they might. Especially Tucker based on the recruiting buzz.

Jordan Tucker was ranked #59 in the RSCI. Not sure I'd characterize that as particularly buzzy. When was the last time a 59th-ranked freshman played big minutes at Duke?

(spoiler alert: no Duke freshman outside the top 35 has averaged double-figure minutes since the RSCI was invented)

Also, I heard Mr. Tucker might be nursing a minor injury.



Guessing Javin was held out for something phisical. Nothing big but after the two quick fouls, didnít get much run so Iím guessing its something.

I doubt it was anything more than he sat 10 minutes in the first half with foul trouble and sat the last 7 minutes of the game because we were up by 60.

Kedsy
11-04-2017, 10:16 PM
So, I think people who are expecting Goldwire to have a role in the rotation might be right.

I still think the over/under on Jordan G's mpg in 2017-18 is 3. And I'd probably take the under. His over/under in non-blowouts after January 1, I'd put at 1. And I'd still take the under.

kAzE
11-04-2017, 10:24 PM
I still think the over/under on Jordan G's mpg in 2017-18 is 3. And I'd probably take the under. His over/under in non-blowouts after January 1, I'd put at 1. And I'd still take the under.

I have him at 3 minutes on my entry, which will probably be more in the blowouts than the serious contests, so I don't disagree. I just thought it was worth pointing out that Coach just specifically mentioned those 2 guys (and not Alex) when he was talking about getting back into a normal rotation.

Clearly, Grayson can be a better point guard than Goldwire, so it's not imperative that he gets minutes.

duke4ever19
11-04-2017, 11:05 PM
In past years goduke had the opposing coach's press conference linked. Have they discontinued doing this, or is it just because the last two games were exhibitions?

I'm thinking we'll see the opposing coaches' post-game presser when the regular season starts.

I didn't see a press conference for Northwest Missouri State's coach either.

jimsumner
11-05-2017, 10:53 AM
Neither of the visiting coaches in the exhibitions did a post-game presser.

That has not always been the case.

That will change with the regular season.

brlftz
11-05-2017, 11:34 AM
Iím out of the loop on something from the front page article - when did Wendell talk about going undefeated?

dukelifer
11-05-2017, 11:57 AM
A few things that I have learned from these two games- 1) Carter is a talented inside player. He is quick off his feet and is willing to bang. He has great patience. Will be interesting to see his game against other big guys. 2) Trent has a nice confident stroke. I thought he would be streaky but he can shoot. That opens up everything. 3) I expect a couple of wow plays from Bagley each game. The kid moves so well on the floor. 4) Grayson is playing like a pro against high schoolers. The game has slowed down so much for him. This will be a fun team to watch.

Billy Dat
11-05-2017, 02:25 PM
- He definitely will be playing 3 big lineups with some regularity. I think we all suspected this, but it's further affirmation. He also said we're going to play lots of zone with these lineups.

- He talked about Marvin first when he discussed one of the bigs playing on the perimeter in lineups with 3 bigs. This makes sense with what we've seen so far. Marvin has been handling the ball outside much more consistently than the other bigs, and Coach talked about how he's got to learn to defend on the perimeter now. He's definitely the 3 in those

-Very intrigued by that 2-3 zone with all that length. Some DBRers read that recent Kevin Arnovitz ESPN article about the Bucks pursuit of length and how itís a goal to eliminate ďfastballsĒ or passes with pace that hit their targets. A zone feel with all that frontline size can definitely cause problems if the perimeter rotations and close outs are quick enough.

Bagley on the perimeter is a key to the season. While his attempts at creating his own shot in transition and driving from the perimeter were mixed, I was happy to see him trying it as we are going to need his versatility from those spots, especially because Carter NEEDS as many paint touches as we can get him.

JasonEvans
11-05-2017, 03:24 PM
I love the way a still image can capture a moment. This is a great one. I want to know what Bolden is thinking. Probably, "Oooopps, I think I am in the way!"

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/duke/87craj/picture182789231/alternates/LANDSCAPE_1140/RAL_%20DUKEBOWIE1SP110417CEL

Mrezt
11-05-2017, 03:35 PM
Iím out of the loop on something from the front page article - when did Wendell talk about going undefeated?

https://twitter.com/dukebasketball/status/926929703407181824

ElSid
11-05-2017, 03:38 PM
Favorite play of the game was the little Bolden touch pass to Carter cutting along the baseline. So nice to see Bolden playing with feel and being decisive. His FT shooting looks decent, too.

Easy game for Grayson to play some point, but I still think he looked a little out of his element. It will be nice to have others bringing the ball up the court. I think he's nearly a lock to average over 20ppg.

Bagley sometimes is like a receiver in football who tries to run before he catches the ball. I'm confident he'll get better at gathering himself. He also looks like he could get a little more skilled finishing with his right hand. Two nitpicks out of a million positives. He's really fun to watch. So fluid and bouncy.

JayZee
11-05-2017, 04:44 PM
Grayson is in such control in that picture.

K mentioned something in his presser about how Grayson spent a lot of time on the floor the last few years because he overextended himself and that this year they were working with him on balance. First and foremost, I think Grayson really reduces the chance of injury and extends his career if he continues to play this way. Also, he just becomes a better player.

flyingdutchdevil
11-05-2017, 04:55 PM
Grayson is in such control in that picture.

K mentioned something in his presser about how Grayson spent a lot of time on the floor the last few years because he overextended himself and that this year they were working with him on balance. First and foremost, I think Grayson really reduces the chance of injury and extends his career if he continues to play this way. Also, he just becomes a better player.

I really believe Grayson has learned to not overextend himself. And I saw that yesterday with the breakaway dunk. It wasn't the "I'm going to murder this rim with 110% effort even if there isn't a human being within 20ft of me" that we're accustomed to. It was an, "I'm dunk this ball hard under strict self control". I was shocked. I loved that.

flyingdutchdevil
11-05-2017, 04:56 PM
Favorite play of the game was the little Bolden touch pass to Carter cutting along the baseline. So nice to see Bolden playing with feel and being decisive. His FT shooting looks decent, too.

Easy game for Grayson to play some point, but I still think he looked a little out of his element. It will be nice to have others bringing the ball up the court. I think he's nearly a lock to average over 20ppg.

Bagley sometimes is like a receiver in football who tries to run before he catches the ball. I'm confident he'll get better at gathering himself. He also looks like he could get a little more skilled finishing with his right hand. Two nitpicks out of a million positives. He's really fun to watch. So fluid and bouncy.

So tempted to take that bet. I think he averages nearly 20ppg. But with 4 legit scorers? Trent and Carter will put up some serious points.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-05-2017, 05:28 PM
So tempted to take that bet. I think he averages nearly 20ppg. But with 4 legit scorers? Trent and Carter will put up some serious points.

Maybe we score 140ppg...

jimsumner
11-05-2017, 05:46 PM
Laettner in '92 and Jason Williams in '01 and '02 averaged over 20 ppg for loaded teams with four or five double-figure scorers.

So, it can be done. And for the record, I would expect Allen to be in the over 20 ppg range.

He's in a good place now and is playing at a first-team All-America level. I look for him to have a huge season.

OldPhiKap
11-05-2017, 06:52 PM
Laettner in '92 and Jason Williams in '01 and '02 averaged over 20 ppg for loaded teams with four or five double-figure scorers.

So, it can be done. And for the record, I would expect Allen to be in the over 20 ppg range.

He's in a good place now and is playing at a first-team All-America level. I look for him to have a huge season.

I’ll add to this that while we have a ton of scoring threats down low, Grayson is the main man from three. And as defenses collapse, he should have plenty of open-ish three pointers.

Easier to get to twenty when you’re counting by threes instead of twos.

Reilly
11-05-2017, 08:51 PM
... Easier to get to twenty when youíre counting by threes instead of twos.

Mods, maybe break this out into a separate thread? I actually think it's impossible to get to 20 counting by 3's. 18 or 21, sure, but not 20. I think that's a fair statement and not straying too much into PPB math material, but please delete if not.

OldPhiKap
11-05-2017, 08:53 PM
Mods, maybe break this out into a separate thread? I actually think it's impossible to get to 20 counting by 3's. 18 or 21, sure, but not 20. I think that's a fair statement and not straying too much into PPB math material, but please delete if not.

Phhht. You and your Euclidean world.

Welcome to the post-fact, non-Euclidean world of today. Less is more. The ceiling is the roof. UNC is innocent.

See the cat? See the cradle?

Henderson
11-05-2017, 08:56 PM
Mods, maybe break this out into a separate thread? I actually think it's impossible to get to 20 counting by 3's. 18 or 21, sure, but not 20. I think that's a fair statement and not straying too much into PPB math material, but please delete if not.

If Grayson gets fouled on a couple of his made threes, he can do it.

GA is so good, not even mathematics can stop him.

richardjackson199
11-05-2017, 09:08 PM
Phhht. You and your Euclidean world.

Welcome to the post-fact, non-Euclidean world of today. Less is more. The ceiling is the roof. UNC is innocent.

See the cat? See the cradle?

Can't spork until I spread the comments around, but fun come-back post. Paradoxes and Vonnegut. Ahh the lies the cheats tell themselves to help themselves feel better.

sagegrouse
11-05-2017, 09:26 PM
Mods, maybe break this out into a separate thread? I actually think it's impossible to get to 20 counting by 3's. 18 or 21, sure, but not 20. I think that's a fair statement and not straying too much into PPB math material, but please delete if not.

Nope. It depends on what "get to twenty" means. I think it means "greater than or equal to."

Reilly
11-05-2017, 09:36 PM
Nope. It depends on what "get to twenty" means. I think it means "greater than or equal to."

Sage, you spotting OPK a "greater than or equal to" is like giving a Carolina player more time on the take home that he doesn't have to turn in. It just doesn't matter.

OldPhiKap
11-05-2017, 09:50 PM
Sage, you spotting OPK a "greater than or equal to" is like giving a Carolina player more time on the take home that he doesn't have to turn in. It just doesn't matter.

I got to twenty about thirty one years ago. “Get to” is a threshold, not a destination.

Oh, and 9F Carolina. In every way, shape, form, fashion, mode, means, and reality. All day, every day. Even on Leap Day, and with an extra hour on Daylight’s Savings Time. 9F ‘em.

Furniture
11-05-2017, 11:15 PM
I plan on seeing as many games as I can. Time for Duval O'Connell and Goldwire to accept punishment and get ready on Monday. Character building.

They all seemed to be in good spirits and taking their punishment well...

whereinthehellami
11-06-2017, 08:48 AM
I know DeLaurier picked up 2 quick fouls but he only played 14 minutes. I was hoping he would get more time and would try to do a little more on offense. He did get 3 assists though.

I've been pleased with Vranks. He looks really comfortable out there. Really seems to know and embrace his role. Got 3 blocks and had solid position down low. Not really expecting Duke to need him much this year but I like his trajectory for next year.

elvis14
11-06-2017, 09:28 AM
Mods, maybe break this out into a separate thread? I actually think it's impossible to get to 20 counting by 3's. 18 or 21, sure, but not 20. I think that's a fair statement and not straying too much into PPB math material, but please delete if not.

At the risk of hitting PBB material: "I was told there would be no math" :)

Duke95
11-06-2017, 09:33 AM
I actually think it's impossible to get to 20 counting by 3's.

I think Debby Crowder had one of those "customized educational opportunity" classes at UNC where you could get to 20 counting by any number you wanted.

thedukelamere
11-06-2017, 11:53 AM
I think Debby Crowder had one of those "customized educational opportunity" classes at UNC where you could get to 20 counting by any number you wanted.

That implies there would be effort put forth by the student to 1. select the number by which they'd like to count and 2. actually count to 20... Well above the established curriculum at $NCheat.

evrim
11-06-2017, 12:00 PM
At the risk of hitting PBB material: "I was told there would be no math" :)

https://vimeo.com/65921206

Reilly
11-06-2017, 12:12 PM
That implies there would be effort put forth by the student to 1. select the number by which they'd like to count and 2. actually count to 20... Well above the established curriculum at $NCheat.

Math 301: Attempts at Counting

In this independent study, students may attempt to count to 20, but only if they want. Students who graduated high school with all of their fingers and toes automatically receive course credit and need not enroll.

ElSid
11-06-2017, 12:36 PM
So tempted to take that bet. I think he averages nearly 20ppg. But with 4 legit scorers? Trent and Carter will put up some serious points.

The usual $1.00?

I think we'll be a very high scoring team so there's room for Grayson to hit 20+ and four or five others to be in or near double figures.

Early signs are that the team is willing to make extra passes to get the most open looks. If Grayson shoots 40+% from three, he can be very efficient and rack up the points quickly.

Calling it a lock is probably silly but it's on the cusp. Not sure what his actual over/under is but I'm sure someone in Vegas is calculating that. We're also likely to play at a high tempo.

If we average mid 80s, the math works out.

kAzE
11-06-2017, 01:11 PM
So tempted to take that bet. I think he averages nearly 20ppg. But with 4 legit scorers? Trent and Carter will put up some serious points.

I would probably put the over/under at 20, and take the over. Grayson has been pacing himself in the preseason, but I think he will be in F.U. mode all year, possibly with the NPOY race in the back of his mind. Right now against these cupcakes, everyone wants to get a piece of the action, but I think the younger guys will defer to him in tougher games, and he's totally capable of taking over when he wants to. He wont be playing minutes in the low 20s like he has been so far, and his usage is going to be massive.

DukieInBrasil
11-06-2017, 01:24 PM
I would probably put the over/under at 20, and take the over. Grayson has been pacing himself in the preseason, but I think he will be in F.U. mode all year, possibly with the NPOY race in the back of his mind. Right now against these cupcakes, everyone wants to get a piece of the action, but I think the younger guys will defer to him in tougher games, and he's totally capable of taking over when he wants to. He wont be playing minutes in the low 20s like he has been so far.

I think this is the key. K loves to put players in position to succede, and when they succede they get accolades. K obviously loves Grayson, both as a player and as a young man. I think K is gonna do everything he can to put Grayson in a position to get recognized as the best player in the country, if Grayson shows that he is capable of it. If Grayson can do what K thinks he's capable of (and what most of the Duke fanbase too), then it wouldn't surprise me to see him average well over 20ppg. With so many players that command attention in the post, and with Grayson's speed and conditioning running thru picks, he ought to get plenty of open looks from 3 and i wouldn't be surprised if he shoots well north of 40% on high volume from 3. I don't think he'll score at Sr. JJ level, but Jr JJ level seems attainable, which was just south of 22ppg. Grayson's best year from 3 was 41.7%, JJ's best year from 3 was 42.1%, so Grayson can certainly shoot in that neighborhood, if not better.
Otoh, if Grayson's performance indicates that he's nowhere near the NPOY conversation, K will probably go with a game plan that doesn't feature Grayson as much, but as long as he's in the conversation i think K will feature him.
Overall, i think that if Duke reaches its potential this year Grayson will have a stand-out type season. Having a stand-out type season on a feared, national title contending team will probably keep him in the running for NPOY.

uh_no
11-06-2017, 02:08 PM
The usual $1.00?

I think we'll be a very high scoring team so there's room for Grayson to hit 20+ and four or five others to be in or near double figures.

Early signs are that the team is willing to make extra passes to get the most open looks. If Grayson shoots 40+% from three, he can be very efficient and rack up the points quickly.

Calling it a lock is probably silly but it's on the cusp. Not sure what his actual over/under is but I'm sure someone in Vegas is calculating that. We're also likely to play at a high tempo.

If we average mid 80s, the math works out.

I think we might need a PPG prediction contest!

luvdahops
11-06-2017, 02:28 PM
The usual $1.00?

I think we'll be a very high scoring team so there's room for Grayson to hit 20+ and four or five others to be in or near double figures.

Early signs are that the team is willing to make extra passes to get the most open looks. If Grayson shoots 40+% from three, he can be very efficient and rack up the points quickly.

Calling it a lock is probably silly but it's on the cusp. Not sure what his actual over/under is but I'm sure someone in Vegas is calculating that. We're also likely to play at a high tempo.

If we average mid 80s, the math works out.

I think there is a lot of logic for Grayson averaging 20+, even on a stacked team with multiple other good options offensively. But I expect he'll come in at more like ~18-19 overall, but over 20 in ACC games and postseason play. FWIW, the SI simulation-based forecast has Allen at 18.7 (followed by Bagley at 16.5, Duval at 14.2 (?), Carter at 12.0 and Trent at 10.8). I tend to think the Allen and Bagley scoring predictions will prove pretty close to spot on, while Carter and Trent look low, and Duval too high (I expect closer to 10-11 ppg, 6-7 apg for him).