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MChambers
10-28-2017, 08:18 PM
Two teams coached by former Duke players and assistants that are on the upswing! Northwestern is ranked in some preseason polls (and I think the other polls are wrong — Collins has a deep and experienced team). I’m not very up to date on Marquette, but Wojo has been making progress.

Interestingly, the two teams played a closed-door scrimmage today. Since it’s closed-door, I don’t think there will be much news leaking out, but it’s still neat that Collins and Wojo did this.

WiJoe
10-28-2017, 10:12 PM
http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2017/10/28/mu-has-productive-scrimmage-northwestern/796241001/

Reilly
10-28-2017, 10:42 PM
Good thread. I'd vote to add UCF and Johnny D.

BD80
10-29-2017, 08:59 AM
Good thread. I'd vote to add UCF and Johnny D.

ASU?

MChambers
10-29-2017, 09:41 AM
Good thread. I'd vote to add UCF and Johnny D.

Makes complete sense to me. Maybe a moderator can retitle the thread.

MChambers
10-29-2017, 09:43 AM
ASU?

I’m more interested in the teams coached by those who were both Duke players and Duke assistants, but I’m fine with broadening the thread to include Bobby’s team.

El_Diablo
10-29-2017, 10:33 AM
Some analysis of the scrimmage (Marquette-focused):

https://marquettewire.org/3979421/sports/three-takeaways-from-mens-basketballs-open-practice/

MChambers
11-01-2017, 03:18 PM
Northwestern starts at #19 in the AP poll. Not ranked in the coaches’ poll, which I think is a mistake.

atoomer0881
11-01-2017, 03:40 PM
Northwestern starts at #19 in the AP poll. Not ranked in the coaches’ poll, which I think is a mistake.

Huh? They're #20 in the Coaches' Poll (http://sportspolls.usatoday.com/ncaa/basketball-men/polls/coaches-poll/2017/1/).

JasonEvans
11-01-2017, 03:49 PM
Huh? They're #20 in the Coaches' Poll (http://sportspolls.usatoday.com/ncaa/basketball-men/polls/coaches-poll/2017/1/).

I'm sure he meant they were not ranked in the top 19 ;)

The degree that Chris has put Northwestern on the college basketball map cannot be overstated. This was the worst program in the entire sport up until Collins arrived on campus. I'm not exaggerating. They were the only power 5 team to have never made a NCAA tourney and CC ended all of that last year.

Northwestern should be shaking in their boots at the prospect of Collins bolting for a big, big, big time job. He has to be on the short list of the top few coaches under 50 in the game today.

-Jason "Chris is 43. Who else under 50 is in the conversation? Shaka Smart (40), Tony Bennett (48), Sean Miller (48), Matt Painter (47)... anyone else?" Evans

wolfpackdevil
11-01-2017, 04:17 PM
I'm sure he meant they were not ranked in the top 19 ;)

The degree that Chris has put Northwestern on the college basketball map cannot be overstated. This was the worst program in the entire sport up until Collins arrived on campus. I'm not exaggerating. They were the only power 5 team to have never made a NCAA tourney and CC ended all of that last year.

Northwestern should be shaking in their boots at the prospect of Collins bolting for a big, big, big time job. He has to be on the short list of the top few coaches under 50 in the game today.

-Jason "Chris is 43. Who else under 50 is in the conversation? Shaka Smart (40), Tony Bennett (48), Sean Miller (48), Matt Painter (47)... anyone else?" Evans

I know he's just getting started, but I'll buy all of Mike White's (40) stock. They were fun to watch against Duke at MSG last year.

MChambers
11-01-2017, 04:35 PM
I'm sure he meant they were not ranked in the top 19 ;)

Yeah, that was it. Must’ve misread that doggone coaches poll.

MChambers
11-01-2017, 04:38 PM
Northwestern should be shaking in their boots at the prospect of Collins bolting for a big, big, big time job. He has to be on the short list of the top few coaches under 50 in the game today.

-Jason "Chris is 43. Who else under 50 is in the conversation? Shaka Smart (40), Tony Bennett (48), Sean Miller (48), Matt Painter (47)... anyone else?" Evans

NU extended Collins in April. Under contract through 2024. I don’t think he’s going anywhere.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-northwestern-pat-fitzgerald-chris-collins-extensions-spt-0425-20170424-story.html

ElSid
11-01-2017, 07:28 PM
I tend to agree that Collins is going to stay at Northwestern, and maybe for the long haul. He has a chance to build a K-like program. There's no good reason why he can't.

Duke had some tradition before K, but really the draw was great academics, great young coach, chance to make a permanent name on a turnaround program, style of play, etc. My personal preference is for him to stick around in the Big Ten for a long time and make Northwestern something out of nothing.

Ok, maybe not K-like but at least Cutcliff-ian.

Elite private institution, can and probably will pay him a fortune over time, Chicago access, Chicago roots personally, amazing campus.

Purple isn't the greatest color for march, and I honestly think that affects things. Still. I think there's a good chance he's a lifer there. Five or 10 years more in, if he hasn't cracked the code but has shown consistent success, I think he could bolt but it will be a while.

Unless...he gets offered the Post-K job, then who knows.

msdukie
11-01-2017, 10:55 PM
I tend to agree that Collins is going to stay at Northwestern, and maybe for the long haul. He has a chance to build a K-like program. There's no good reason why he can't.

Duke had some tradition before K, but really the draw was great academics, great young coach, chance to make a permanent name on a turnaround program, style of play, etc. My personal preference is for him to stick around in the Big Ten for a long time and make Northwestern something out of nothing.

Ok, maybe not K-like but at least Cutcliff-ian.

Elite private institution, can and probably will pay him a fortune over time, Chicago access, Chicago roots personally, amazing campus.

Purple isn't the greatest color for march, and I honestly think that affects things. Still. I think there's a good chance he's a lifer there. Five or 10 years more in, if he hasn't cracked the code but has shown consistent success, I think he could bolt but it will be a while.

Unless...he gets offered the Post-K job, then who knows.

Duke pre-K and Northwestern pre-Collins are not comparable. Duke had been to 4 Final Fours, won 5 Southern Conference Championships and 6 ACC Championships, coming off an Elite 8 and two years removed from the title game. It was also the 7th winningest program in NCAA history and had produced two National Players of the Year and numerous All-Americans. Northwestern was the only Power 5 school to never even make the NCAAs.

ElSid
11-02-2017, 10:13 PM
Duke pre-K and Northwestern pre-Collins are not comparable. Duke had been to 4 Final Fours, won 5 Southern Conference Championships and 6 ACC Championships, coming off an Elite 8 and two years removed from the title game. It was also the 7th winningest program in NCAA history and had produced two National Players of the Year and numerous All-Americans. Northwestern was the only Power 5 school to never even make the NCAAs.

Mine was at least a little tongue in cheek on that section. But great point.

MChambers
11-03-2017, 01:12 PM
In the KenPom preseason poll. https://kenpom.com

91Duke
11-06-2017, 01:35 PM
Haven't posted here before, but in addition to being a Duke grad I'm currently on faculty at NU and have become a big fan of what Chris Collins has done with the program here. Thought some would be interested in this article from Chicago Magazine, which is a great read:

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/November-2017/How-Chris-Collins-Made-a-Winner-of-Northwestern-Basketball/

atoomer0881
11-06-2017, 02:37 PM
Haven't posted here before, but in addition to being a Duke grad I'm currently on faculty at NU and have become a big fan of what Chris Collins has done with the program here. Thought some would be interested in this article from Chicago Magazine, which is a great read:

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/November-2017/How-Chris-Collins-Made-a-Winner-of-Northwestern-Basketball/

What an absolutely great article. Thanks for sharing!

ElSid
11-06-2017, 05:23 PM
Haven't posted here before, but in addition to being a Duke grad I'm currently on faculty at NU and have become a big fan of what Chris Collins has done with the program here. Thought some would be interested in this article from Chicago Magazine, which is a great read:

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/November-2017/How-Chris-Collins-Made-a-Winner-of-Northwestern-Basketball/

Nice. Even says he's trying to build a "Duke of the Midwest," which makes me again think he's gonna be there for a while.

JasonEvans
11-06-2017, 07:09 PM
Nice. Even says he's trying to build a "Duke of the Midwest," which makes me again think he's gonna be there for a while.

It may depend upon how long someone else stays in their job...if you catch my drift.

ElSid
11-07-2017, 02:05 PM
It may depend upon how long someone else stays in their job...if you catch my drift.

I definitely do, but considering he's a guy trying to get out of the long shadow of his father, I can't imagine he'd want to step into an even longer shadow.

That said, would be hard to turn down the money and prestige of being Coach K's successor. If he craves that challenge and pressure, it's like crack. I prefer to put my fingers in my ears and refuse to acknowledge that K will ever leave.

gep
11-07-2017, 11:40 PM
I was thinking that by the time Coach K leaves, Chris might be able to make Northwestern into a consistent top 20-25 team, consistently challenging for conference championships... and winning, and making the NCAA tournament an expected event. If that happens, he may not want to leave Northwestern for Duke, with all the expectations, long shadow, pressure to stay at the top-level, etc. And at Northwestern, the program will be *his* that *he* built and sustain. Plus, essentially in his hometown. Will be hard to leave if that happens...

DukieInBrasil
11-12-2017, 07:42 PM
#19 Northwestern kicked off their season debut as a ranked team by winning 79-75 over Loyola (MD) on a 26 pt performance from Lindsey.
Marquette opened with a win over Mt St Mary's, 80-59.

DukieInBrasil
11-12-2017, 07:52 PM
Johnny Dawkins and UCF beat Mercer 88-79 to open the season.
Tommy Amaker and Harvard beat UMASS in OT in their opener.
Bobby Hurley and Az State beat Idaho St 94-74.

So far, K (2-0) and his coaching tree (6-0) are off to a good start, since Brey and ND won too.

grad_devil
11-12-2017, 09:50 PM
Haven't posted here before, but in addition to being a Duke grad I'm currently on faculty at NU and have become a big fan of what Chris Collins has done with the program here. Thought some would be interested in this article from Chicago Magazine, which is a great read:

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/November-2017/How-Chris-Collins-Made-a-Winner-of-Northwestern-Basketball/

Really wonderful article.

If you didn't watch the video that Chris's high school team made (linked in the article), you're missing out. The dancing is amazing.

Watch the whole thing if you have time, but start around 1:44 if you don't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h4mqkBzAHo&t=1m44s

DukieInBrasil
11-14-2017, 01:30 PM
Collins's #20 ranked Northwestern picked up win #2 on the season, beating St Peter's 75-66 in some tip-off classic.
Every starter score 10+ pts and they got a few pts from the bench.

MChambers
11-19-2017, 07:46 PM
Northwestern is off to a bad start to the season, losing to Creighton earlier this week, beating La Salle fairly convincingly yesterday, but getting absolutely destroyed by Texas Tech today. Final score: 85-49. Will be interesting to see how Collins gets this team back on track.

-jk
11-19-2017, 08:01 PM
Creighton and TT are both solid...

-jk

dukefan_828
11-19-2017, 08:19 PM
Creighton and TT are both solid...

-jk

With out being bias i must say there is no team solid enough to beat another solid team by 36pts it was a land slide from start to finish, just a terribly sloppy played game by NW. I don't expect this to be a theme but there's no excuse for that kind of loss.

ipatent
11-19-2017, 08:28 PM
Northwestern just didn't have the athleticism or length to stay close to Texas Tech today. They have the look of a tough tournament out.

DukieInBrasil
11-20-2017, 01:34 AM
With out being bias i must say there is no team solid enough to beat another solid team by 36pts it was a land slide from start to finish, just a terribly sloppy played game by NW. I don't expect this to be a theme but there's no excuse for that kind of loss.

this was their second game in 2 days? I know Duke did that and emerged victorious on the second day, but a) Duke has a different level of talent on the roster and b) LaSalle and TTech are both a step up in talent from Duke's 2 opponents.

subzero02
11-20-2017, 01:58 AM
this was their second game in 2 days? I know Duke did that and emerged victorious on the second day, but a) Duke has a different level of talent on the roster and b) LaSalle and TTech are both a step up in talent from Duke's 2 opponents.

Unless a team has some major injuries, there's no way to sugar a coat a 36 point loss.

MChambers
11-20-2017, 07:12 AM
this was their second game in 2 days? I know Duke did that and emerged victorious on the second day, but a) Duke has a different level of talent on the roster and b) LaSalle and TTech are both a step up in talent from Duke's 2 opponents.
It was Texas Tech's second game in two days, too. Hall of Fame tournament. Northwestern has no excuse for their performance. Interesting that a team that returns four starters is off to such a disappointing start.

Troublemaker
11-20-2017, 09:54 AM
No doubt NU underperformed, as I'm sure they're not 36 points worse than Texas Tech.

That said, wanted to praise TTU's coach Chris Beard, who is some kind of wizard and will be the hottest coaching name in college by the end of this season, imo. His one season spent at Arkansas-Little Rock is still the sickest coaching accomplishment in recent history, if you see what he did in the context of other surrounding Little Rock seasons (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/arkansas-little-rock/).

While he wasn't able to duplicate that immediate success in his first year at Texas Tech, they now look VERY good in his second year. TTU should have their first 20-win season in over a decade (since Bob Knight) and may be a threat to KU in the Big 12. I mean, if TTU snaps KU's streak of winning the conference, we basically have to conclude that Beard IS a wizard.

left_hook_lacey
11-20-2017, 10:28 AM
Northwestern just didn't have the athleticism or length to stay close to Texas Tech today. They have the look of a tough tournament out.

I read somewhere that they are alarmingly unathletic.

sandinmyshoes
11-20-2017, 10:32 AM
Northwestern is off to a bad start to the season, losing to Creighton earlier this week, beating La Salle fairly convincingly yesterday, but getting absolutely destroyed by Texas Tech today. Final score: 85-49. Will be interesting to see how Collins gets this team back on track.

He could start with a toast to never forgetting.

Dev11
11-20-2017, 10:42 AM
Retitled the thread to make you feel welcome to post about ASU, Notre Dame, Harvard, and UCF in addition to MU and NU. Any other K disciples we care about in college hoops?

JasonEvans
11-20-2017, 12:03 PM
Retitled the thread to make you feel welcome to post about ASU, Notre Dame, Harvard, and UCF in addition to MU and NU. Any other K disciples we care about in college hoops?

Bobby has AZ St off to a good 4-0 start... every game has been a 20+point win but they've only played 4 weak programs (Pom rates their schedule as the 314th worst in D1 right now, which is really poor). Still, a solid win is what you would expect against these teams and it is good that ASU has accomplished that. It looks like ASU has a decent chance to be among the top half of Pac 12 this season, which would be a nice step up for a team that hasn't been higher than 8th in the P12 under Bobby.

-Jason "Bobby's recruiting in 2017 was good and he has a really nice start to his 2018 class with top 30 prospect Luguentz Dort" Evans

DukieInBrasil
11-20-2017, 12:12 PM
It was Texas Tech's second game in two days, too. Hall of Fame tournament. Northwestern has no excuse for their performance. Interesting that a team that returns four starters is off to such a disappointing start.

3-2 start isn't "such disappointing start". It's mediocre, but losses to Creighton and TTU aren't bad. In fact there's a strong chance that both of those teams make the tournament. If NW goes 20-14 (which is slightly worse % than 3-2) over the course of the season, they'll probably make the NCAAT.

duke79
11-20-2017, 12:19 PM
It may depend upon how long someone else stays in their job...if you catch my drift.


I definitely do, but considering he's a guy trying to get out of the long shadow of his father, I can't imagine he'd want to step into an even longer shadow.

That said, would be hard to turn down the money and prestige of being Coach K's successor. If he craves that challenge and pressure, it's like crack. I prefer to put my fingers in my ears and refuse to acknowledge that K will ever leave.


I was thinking that by the time Coach K leaves, Chris might be able to make Northwestern into a consistent top 20-25 team, consistently challenging for conference championships... and winning, and making the NCAA tournament an expected event. If that happens, he may not want to leave Northwestern for Duke, with all the expectations, long shadow, pressure to stay at the top-level, etc. And at Northwestern, the program will be *his* that *he* built and sustain. Plus, essentially in his hometown. Will be hard to leave if that happens...

I'm guessing that WHEN the Duke head BB coaching position opens up, there are not too many coaches in the world of basketball (college or pro) who would turn down the job. Maybe Brad Stevens and a few others, but I think it would be a very small list, give the prestige, money, etc. involved. No doubt, it's hard to follow a legend but that doesn't seem to stop too many people from trying.

flyingdutchdevil
11-20-2017, 12:21 PM
I'm guessing that WHEN the Duke head BB coaching position opens up, there are not too many coaches in the world of basketball (college or pro) who would turn down the job. Maybe Brad Stevens and a few others, but I think it would be a very small list, give the prestige, money, etc. involved. No doubt, it's hard to follow a legend but that doesn't seem to stop too many people from trying.

IMO, that list extends to nearly any decently performing coach in the NBA, the head coaches of KU & UK, and anyone associated with UNC. Outside of that list, I'd tend to agree with you.

duke79
11-20-2017, 12:29 PM
IMO, that list extends to nearly any decently performing coach in the NBA, the head coaches of KU & UK, and anyone associated with UNC. Outside of that list, I'd tend to agree with you.

Yea, I'm sure there are a number of NBA head coaches who would not want to coach at the college level, even including at Duke, and I would guess there may 8 to 15 college head coaches who would not leave their current situation for the Duke job, including, as you mention, UK, KU, UNC, AZ (maybe), etc. Furthermore, I'm not sure, though, that Duke would even be looking to hire a head coach from another top college program. I realize this is an academic discussion that we should not be having at this point in time!

MChambers
11-20-2017, 12:32 PM
3-2 start isn't "such disappointing start". It's mediocre, but losses to Creighton and TTU aren't bad. In fact there's a strong chance that both of those teams make the tournament. If NW goes 20-14 (which is slightly worse % than 3-2) over the course of the season, they'll probably make the NCAAT.

3-2 isn’t that bad, but NU (not NW) was ranked to begin the season. Moreover, the first two wins weren’t as easy as they should have been. While Creighton is decent, a top 25 team should be able to beat them at home. And there’s no way to pretend the Texas Tech loss is only a loss to a good team. NU lost by 36! A ranked team should never lose by 36 in NCAA men’s basketball.

Add to that that NU had four starters returning, plus three key bench players, and it’s very disappointing.

NU is down to #52 in KenPom and #73 in Sagarin. That’s quite a drop.

DukieInBrasil
11-20-2017, 12:59 PM
3-2 isn’t that bad, but NU (not NW) was ranked to begin the season. Moreover, the first two wins weren’t as easy as they should have been. While Creighton is decent, a top 25 team should be able to beat them at home. And there’s no way to pretend the Texas Tech loss is only a loss to a good team. NU lost by 36! A ranked team should never lose by 36 in NCAA men’s basketball.

Add to that that NU had four starters returning, plus three key bench players, and it’s very disappointing.

NU is down to #52 in KenPom and #73 in Sagarin. That’s quite a drop.

we'll just have to agree to disagree. I had hoped NW (NU could also be Northeastern U., so i used NW) would be off to a better start too, but i just don't view 3-2 as that bad. A win's a win, and a loss is a loss. I would also take KP and Sag. #s with a few pounds of salt right now, seeing as how those algorithms need more data than 5 games to be useful indicators.

flyingdutchdevil
11-20-2017, 01:04 PM
we'll just have to agree to disagree. I had hoped NW (NU could also be Northeastern U., so i used NW) would be off to a better start too, but i just don't view 3-2 as that bad. A win's a win, and a loss is a loss. I would also take KP and Sag. #s with a few pounds of salt right now, seeing as how those algorithms need more data than 5 games to be useful indicators.

Maybe in the NBA. But 3-2 for a ranked team in college against two unranked teams isn't good. Also, not all wins and losses are considered equal in the eyes of the committee (the only organization where it should count). For instance, Duke would be a top 5 team if they lost to MSU. But if we lost to Furman? I'd hope we'd drop out of the top 10 over something like that.

sagegrouse
11-20-2017, 01:48 PM
we'll just have to agree to disagree. I had hoped NW (NU could also be Northeastern U., so i used NW) would be off to a better start too, but i just don't view 3-2 as that bad. A win's a win, and a loss is a loss. I would also take KP and Sag. #s with a few pounds of salt right now, seeing as how those algorithms need more data than 5 games to be useful indicators.


Maybe in the NBA. But 3-2 for a ranked team in college against two unranked teams isn't good. Also, not all wins and losses are considered equal in the eyes of the committee (the only organization where it should count). For instance, Duke would be a top 5 team if they lost to MSU. But if we lost to Furman? I'd hope we'd drop out of the top 10 over something like that.

I agree it's a bad start to the Northwestern season, but we should recognize that it's still before Thanksgiving.

Richard Berg
11-20-2017, 02:58 PM
A ranked team should never lose by 36 in NCAA men’s basketball.
Basketball has a lot of variance. Sometimes you shoot 1/11 from 3FG in the championship game. Other times your SG gets 41 points on 13 shots.

53n206
11-20-2017, 03:23 PM
Brad Stevens? His job now has no recruiting, substantial salary, magnificent organization. The cons are: player personalities and long season with lots of traveling. As to Stevens taking the Duke job probably a 50% or more reduction in salary, substantial recruiting chores with much travel there.

duke79
11-20-2017, 04:05 PM
Brad Stevens? His job now has no recruiting, substantial salary, magnificent organization. The cons are: player personalities and long season with lots of traveling. As to Stevens taking the Duke job probably a 50% or more reduction in salary, substantial recruiting chores with much travel there.

Yea, I have to believe that once you have coached in college and then you go to a head coaching job in the NBA, going back to a college coaching gig doesn't look all that great, especially when it comes to recruiting. How many grown, successful men (or women) want to spend their time flying all over the country and driving rental cars to God knows where, watching high school hoops games and hoping to convince a 16 or 17 year-old (and his family) that he should come play at your school. And then you may have to deal with all of the academic issues involved in getting him admitted. And if you fail, you will get fired. It can NOT be a fun exercise. Admittedly, being an NBA coach has its downsides too (long season, having to deal with overpaid (in many cases) ego driven jocks, personality and team issues, etc.) But, at least, you can rely on the GM, to a degree, to worry about what players to draft and to trade for.

Admittedly, the Duke head coaching job is probably the best job in college BB and maybe in all of college sports and might just be able to lure someone like Brad Stevens back to college coaching. Who knows?

BandAlum83
11-20-2017, 04:07 PM
Yea, I have to believe that once you have coached in college and then you go to a head coaching job in the NBA, going back to a college coaching gig doesn't look all that great, especially when it comes to recruiting. How many grown, successful men (or women) want to spend their time flying all over the country and driving rental cars to God knows where, watching high school hoops games and hoping to convince a 16 or 17 year-old (and his family) that he should come play at your school. And then you may have to deal with all of the academic issues involved in getting him admitted. And if you fail, you will get fired. It can NOT be a fun exercise. Admittedly, being an NBA coach has its downsides too (long season, having to deal with overpaid (in many cases) ego driven jocks, personality and team issues, etc.) But, at least, you can rely on the GM, to a degree, to worry about what players to draft and to trade for.

Admittedly, the Duke head coaching job is probably the best job in college BB and maybe in all of college sports and might just be able to lure someone like Brad Stevens back to college coaching. Who knows?

Quinn Snyder is an NBA coach and part of The Brotherhood...

duke79
11-20-2017, 04:11 PM
Quinn Snyder is an NBA coach and part of The Brotherhood...

True.....but who knows if he would have any interest in coming back to coach at Duke OR if Duke would even consider him? Didn't he leave Missou under somewhat of a cloud? My guess is Duke is going to want someone who is as clean as the proverbial whistle without any blemishes on their coaching resume. As far as I know, someone like Brad Stevens seems to fit that profile.

MChambers
11-20-2017, 04:38 PM
I agree it's a bad start to the Northwestern season, but we should recognize that it's still before Thanksgiving.
No doubt there is plenty of time for Collins to turn it around, but this is a veteran team, starting three seniors and two juniors, so the bad start is very surprising. I'm rooting for the Wildcats, of course, in part because my daughter is a senior at NU.

sagegrouse
11-20-2017, 05:07 PM
Brad Stevens? His job now has no recruiting, substantial salary, magnificent organization. The cons are: player personalities and long season with lots of traveling. As to Stevens taking the Duke job probably a 50% or more reduction in salary, substantial recruiting chores with much travel there.

The flip side of that coin? In the NBA, as Pat Riley once said, the players eventually just tune you out, and you have to move on. That doesn't happen if you are a college coach -- because the players are younger and the turnover rate is high.

DukieInBrasil
11-20-2017, 05:23 PM
Maybe in the NBA. But 3-2 for a ranked team in college against two unranked teams isn't good. Also, not all wins and losses are considered equal in the eyes of the committee (the only organization where it should count). For instance, Duke would be a top 5 team if they lost to MSU. But if we lost to Furman? I'd hope we'd drop out of the top 10 over something like that.

I bet that both Creighton and TTU make the Tournament, at which point those 2 losses won't be a consequential negative. As i pointed out in a previous post, if NW finishes at 20-14 (a marginally worse winning % than 3-2) then they'll probably make the tournament too.
Regardless, they will have to start playing better than they are currently to achieve such a record.

cato
11-20-2017, 06:39 PM
The flip side of that coin? In the NBA, as Pat Riley once said, the players eventually just tune you out, and you have to move on. That doesn't happen if you are a college coach -- because the players are younger and the turnover rate is high.

Gregg Popovich was the only counter-example I could think of quickly, so I google for the longest tenured NBA coach. I was surprised just how short tenures are. Spoelstra is tied for second longest tenure, having been hired in 2008. Stevens already makes the top 10.

JasonEvans
11-20-2017, 09:43 PM
As to Stevens taking the Duke job probably a 50% or more reduction in salary

Stevens signed a 6-year, $22 mil contract with the Celtics in 2013, an average of $3.67 mil per season. K makes more than that and I suspect that if Duke brings in a big name replacement for him some day that person will make more than $3.67 per year.

Now, Stevens signed an extension last year but the terms have not been released. It is quite possible, even probable, that he got a raise, but the notion that he makes twice what K makes is just plain wrong.

-Jason "worth noting that I have no exact figure on K's salary as Duke refuses to make the number public, but more folks expect it is in the $5-7 mil range" Evans

throatybeard
11-21-2017, 09:48 AM
This thread had a shorter trip to make, but it's clearly working under the succession law: as post count increases, the likelihood that any given MBB thread will discuss the succession crisis approaches 1.

sagegrouse
11-21-2017, 10:13 AM
Stevens signed a 6-year, $22 mil contract with the Celtics in 2013, an average of $3.67 mil per season. K makes more than that and I suspect that if Duke brings in a big name replacement for him some day that person will make more than $3.67 per year.

Now, Stevens signed an extension last year but the terms have not been released. It is quite possible, even probable, that he got a raise, but the notion that he makes twice what K makes is just plain wrong.

-Jason "worth noting that I have no exact figure on K's salary as Duke refuses to make the number public, but more folks expect it is in the $5-7 mil range" Evans

I believe he may have made $10 million in 2015, due to the NCAA championship.

The other question is about "other income," much of which is related to basketball and his position at Duke -- camps, structure of shoe deals with Duke, etc. Of course, he seems to make a lot of public appearances; one source listed his speaking fee as $50-100 thousand.

flyingdutchdevil
11-21-2017, 10:18 AM
Stevens signed a 6-year, $22 mil contract with the Celtics in 2013, an average of $3.67 mil per season. K makes more than that and I suspect that if Duke brings in a big name replacement for him some day that person will make more than $3.67 per year.

Now, Stevens signed an extension last year but the terms have not been released. It is quite possible, even probable, that he got a raise, but the notion that he makes twice what K makes is just plain wrong.

-Jason "worth noting that I have no exact figure on K's salary as Duke refuses to make the number public, but more folks expect it is in the $5-7 mil range" Evans

This is a little misleading. Stevens ENTERED the league in 2013, so that 6-year, $22M contact is pretty good for an entry-level coach with zero NBA experience. Like NBA players, it's that second, third, and forth contract (or extension) that matters. Thibs is on a 5-year, $40M contract. Brooks in Washington is on a 5-year, $35M contract. That extension that Stevens got was probably a huge increase in pay. Furthermore, Stevens has established himself as a top 3 coach right now. If he wants money, the Celts will pay. And they will pay more than Duke.

DukieInBrasil
11-21-2017, 09:55 PM
No doubt there is plenty of time for Collins to turn it around, but this is a veteran team, starting three seniors and two juniors, so the bad start is very surprising.

So Creighton, one of the teams that beat Northwestern so far, just beat #23 UCLA who just beat Wisconsin, adding credence to the claim that NoWestern's loss to them was not a bad one. Creighton goes up against #22 Baylor tonight, so we'll get a better feel for how good The BlueJays are.
TTU doesn't play again until tomorrow, but they are undefeated so far, with Boston College as another P5 victim, granted BC is among the worst of P5 teams.

ipatent
11-22-2017, 10:06 PM
Marquette closing in on a win over LSU.

dukelifer
11-22-2017, 10:08 PM
Marquette closing in on a win over LSU.

Waters for LSU who I think Duke offered is a heck of a player.

ipatent
11-23-2017, 10:15 PM
UCF stays unbeaten with a win over Nebraska today.

Duke79UNLV77
11-23-2017, 10:26 PM
Hurley has ASU off to a 5-0 start with a win over Kansas State!

ipatent
11-24-2017, 09:19 PM
Hurley with a big win over ranked Xavier today.

CameronBornAndBred
11-24-2017, 09:42 PM
Hurley with a big win over ranked Xavier today.

Won a championship game in doing it, too. Fun quote...


Arizona State: The Sun Devils have scored 90 points in all six of their games this season and could find themselves in the Top 25 after defeating the Musketeers.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/undefined

jv001
11-24-2017, 09:47 PM
Hurley with a big win over ranked Xavier today.

Now I can get behind Bobby Hurley taking the reigns after Coach K retires. One of my all time favs. GoDuke!

BandAlum83
11-27-2017, 02:17 PM
Not that any of us really listen to him, but Seth Greenberg tapped Bobby Hurley's ASU Sun Devils as the "Team of the Week."

Apparently, so did many AP Poll voters:


*** Arizona State made its first ballot appearance since the Fat Lever era (or so it seems).

The surprising Sun Devils slid into the No. 13 spot after beating Kansas State and Xavier (by 16) to win the Las Vegas Invitational.

Duke79UNLV77
11-27-2017, 03:08 PM
Not that any of us really listen to him, but Seth Greenberg tapped Bobby Hurley's ASU Sun Devils as the "Team of the Week."

Apparently, so did many AP Poll voters:

.

Come on home (about 30 years from now when K retires after several more championships), Bobby!

FadedTackyShirt
12-03-2017, 10:09 AM
Not that any of us really listen to him, but Seth Greenberg tapped Bobby Hurley's ASU Sun Devils as the "Team of the Week."

Apparently, so did many AP Poll voters:

.

‘SC’s ranking aside, ASU is currently the best team in the PAC. ‘Zona, Oregon, UCLA, and ‘SC all have significantly more raw talent than ASU, so may not last, but props to Bobby for doing more with less.

Bagley’s an ASU legacy (matenal gramps Joe Caldwell played with Jeff Mullins on the 1964 Olympic team) and Bobby recruited MB3 hard.

YmoBeThere
12-03-2017, 10:34 AM
After their loss yesterday, Harvard is now 3-6. Tommy had a good six-year run that ended a few years ago. Is the bloom now off the rose?

DukieInBrasil
12-03-2017, 05:21 PM
Johnny D's UCF squad took down #24 Alabama today, moving to 5-3 on the season.

MChambers
12-03-2017, 05:42 PM
Johnny D's UCF squad took down #24 Alabama today, moving to 5-3 on the season.

I take it Bama wasn’t playing 3-on-5?

jv001
12-03-2017, 06:21 PM
‘SC’s ranking aside, ASU is currently the best team in the PAC. ‘Zona, Oregon, UCLA, and ‘SC all have significantly more raw talent than ASU, so may not last, but props to Bobby for doing more with less.

Bagley’s an ASU legacy (matenal gramps Joe Caldwell played with Jeff Mullins on the 1964 Olympic team) and Bobby recruited MB3 hard.

Pogo Joe Caldwell who played with the Carolina Cougars of the old ABA. Got to know him back then and he was a great guy and very good player. GoDuke!

Furniture
12-13-2017, 11:57 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/941142554128670725/video/1

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/787854807017066496/qgcmylEU_bigger.jpg
(https://mobile.twitter.com/DukeMBB)
Duke Basketball

@DukeMBB
(https://mobile.twitter.com/DukeMBB)
World-class universities. Elite head coaches. Strong basketball programs built to last. Our bond with @HarvardMBB (https://mobile.twitter.com/HarvardMBB) runs deep.

Billy Dat
12-14-2017, 09:31 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/941142554128670725/video/1

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/787854807017066496/qgcmylEU_bigger.jpg
(https://mobile.twitter.com/DukeMBB)
Duke Basketball

@DukeMBB
(https://mobile.twitter.com/DukeMBB)
World-class universities. Elite head coaches. Strong basketball programs built to last. Our bond with @HarvardMBB (https://mobile.twitter.com/HarvardMBB) runs deep.

This video is awesome, everyone should watch it.

As for Tommy and Harvard, I think he's there as long as he wants the job and doesn't completely fall apart.

ipatent
01-09-2018, 11:41 PM
Big win by Marquette over #13 Seton Hall tonight.

DukieInBrasil
01-10-2018, 05:07 PM
Big win by Marquette over #13 Seton Hall tonight.

Wojo's biggest recruiting prize and coaching prospect Henry Ellenson has been pretty quiet this year for the Pistons. Seems Kennard has cut into HE's playing time. 12-5 (3-2) in the Big East.
Bobby Hurley has ASU looking really good so far this year. They got up to as high as #3 (?), which is probably the biggest surprise in the Coach K tree so far this year, 13-2 (1-2 Pac).
Notre Dame (Brey) is pretty good, hard not to finish in the top half of the ACC, probably top 1/4, 13-3 (3-0)
Collins' NW squad has started to fade entering B1G play, dropping 3 of 4 conference games, and now sit at 10-7 (1-3).
Johnny Dawkins has UCF at 12-4 (3-1 AAC).
Ammaker's Hahvud squad is not playing as well as they have in the past 6-9 (1-0 Ivy).

So the NCAA tree is a combined 66-30 = 68.75% so far this year.

MChambers
01-15-2018, 08:25 AM
NU got blown out at Indiana yesterday, dropping its record to 11-8. Collins’ team now has almost no chance to make the NCAA tourney. Very disappointing season. It’s hard to understand why this year’s team is so much worse than last year’s team.

CameronBornAndBred
01-15-2018, 10:58 AM
NU got blown out at Indiana yesterday, dropping its record to 11-8. Collins’ team now has almost no chance to make the NCAA tourney. Very disappointing season. It’s hard to understand why this year’s team is so much worse than last year’s team.
People obviously had high expectations, too, since they started with a pretty solid ranking.

ipatent
01-15-2018, 11:37 AM
People obviously had high expectations, too, since they started with a pretty solid ranking.

They need some athletes.

MChambers
01-15-2018, 12:02 PM
They need some athletes.

They're not quite alarmingly unathletic, but they're close. Still, last year's team wasn't any more athletic, and was a very solid team. All they lost was Lumpkin, who was a good glue player but that's all, and Taphorn, who was a good shooting reserve forward. They added Falzone and Gaines, a good freshman, and everyone else is a year older, but the players don't look any better. Very strange.

luvdahops
01-15-2018, 12:57 PM
They're not quite alarmingly unathletic, but they're close. Still, last year's team wasn't any more athletic, and was a very solid team. All they lost was Lumpkin, who was a good glue player but that's all, and Taphorn, who was a good shooting reserve forward. They added Falzone and Gaines, a good freshman, and everyone else is a year older, but the players don't look any better. Very strange.

Only 2 of their regulars - big man Dererk Pardon and backup PG Isiah Brown - are shooting better than 40% in conference play. Primary scorers Scottie Lindsay, Bryant McIntosh and Vic Law are at 31.9%, 33.3% and 39.3%, respectively. All take a high % of their attempts from 3, but still. It's hard to beat good teams when you shoot that poorly on a consistent basis.

JasonEvans
01-17-2018, 03:10 PM
Don't look now, but Bobby is turning into a pretty good recruiter.

He has landed a commitment (http://www.espn.com/college-football/recruiting/story/_/id/22125753/taeshon-cherry-commits-arizona-state-texas-am) from 5-star forward Taeshon Cherry. Cherry had been committed to USC, but pulled that when USC got caught up in the Adidas scandal. There are reports that Cherry may have been one of the players Adidas was going to pay to go to an Adidas school, but his family is denying it. Meanwhile, he's widely considered one of the top 25 recruits in the land and is a really nice pickup for AZSt.

-Jason "Bobby has a big game tonight against Stanford... The Sun Devils have struggled a bit in conference play while Stanford has been red hot after a very poor pre-conference season" Evans

Truth&Justise
01-31-2018, 01:49 PM
Despite Arizona State falling back in the rankings, they are thrilled with the job Bobby Hurley is doing.

Today he signed a contract extension and is now locked in until 2022 (https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ncaab/asu/2018/01/31/asu-basketball-bobby-hurley-contract-extension/1082866001/).

CameronBornAndBred
01-31-2018, 02:17 PM
Despite Arizona State falling back in the rankings, they are thrilled with the job Bobby Hurley is doing.

Today he signed a contract extension and is now locked in until 2022 (https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ncaab/asu/2018/01/31/asu-basketball-bobby-hurley-contract-extension/1082866001/).
They haven't been ranked in a few years, so even "falling back" is a good experience. ;) Congrats to Bobby for making an impact and earning the extension.

CameronBornAndBred
02-07-2018, 12:21 PM
Collins picked up a nice win over Michigan last night. Northwestern is in the middle of the Big Ten standings with a 6-6 record. They have some tough but winnable games coming up (except for MSU, at least it's at home), so it will be interesting to see how they do down the stretch.

KnightDevil
02-07-2018, 02:07 PM
Don't look now, but Bobby is turning into a pretty good recruiter.

He has landed a commitment (http://www.espn.com/college-football/recruiting/story/_/id/22125753/taeshon-cherry-commits-arizona-state-texas-am) from 5-star forward Taeshon Cherry. Cherry had been committed to USC, but pulled that when USC got caught up in the Adidas scandal. There are reports that Cherry may have been one of the players Adidas was going to pay to go to an Adidas school, but his family is denying it. Meanwhile, he's widely considered one of the top 25 recruits in the land and is a really nice pickup for AZSt.

-Jason "Bobby has a big game tonight against Stanford... The Sun Devils have struggled a bit in conference play while Stanford has been red hot after a very poor pre-conference season" Evans

So, Bobby is now Cherry-picking?

CameronBornAndBred
03-10-2018, 05:39 PM
Amaker has Harvard in the Ivy championship again, playing tomorrow against Penn for a trip to the big dance.

HereBeforeCoachK
03-10-2018, 06:10 PM
People obviously had high expectations, too, since they started with a pretty solid ranking.

FYI, NW never won again after beating Michigan, and Michigan hasn't lost yet, winning 9 straight.

juise
03-11-2018, 01:44 AM
BobbY, Wojo, and Quin all firmly on the bundle, but perhaps not appearing to be on the right side. Fortunately for Quin, he still has some opportunity to improve his standing. ;)

Shakyjake64
03-11-2018, 12:08 PM
BobbY, Wojo, and Quin all firmly on the bundle, but perhaps not appearing to be on the right side. Fortunately for Quin, he still has some opportunity to improve his standing. ;)

My dark horse candidate is Jay Bilas......just saying

HereBeforeCoachK
03-11-2018, 12:15 PM
BobbY, Wojo, and Quin all firmly on the bundle, but perhaps not appearing to be on the right side. Fortunately for Quin, he still has some opportunity to improve his standing. ;)

I heard one of the Duke basketball beat reporters say that Quin was virtually a second head coach while he was at Duke. I don't know if that is true or not, and to clarify it was not meant as a jab at K, it was meant as a compliment to Quin. And he certainly burst onto the scene quickly at Mizzou before that went sideways.

Now I think he's a pro coach, period. He's been with same team 4+ years in NBA, which is a long stint.

dermite
03-11-2018, 01:25 PM
Hope the GOAT stays around for at least 5 more years, but here's hoping Bobby is the next in line. The fact that Az State was even ranked this year had to make their fan base giddy. Sure impressed me and my friends.

It is always difficult to be objective about a coach that I loved as a player. Still impossible to know how he or anyone would do in the unreal pressure cooker of CBB's elite program.

Rich
03-11-2018, 02:28 PM
Hope the GOAT stays around for at least 5 more years, but here's hoping Bobby is the next in line. The fact that Az State was even ranked this year had to make their fan base giddy. Sure impressed me and my friends.

It is always difficult to be objective about a coach that I loved as a player. Still impossible to know how he or anyone would do in the unreal pressure cooker of CBB's elite program.

Loved Bobby as a player, but his "passion" behind the bench is a bit disturbing


https://www.azcentral.com/videos/sports/ncaab/asu/2018/03/05/michael-crow-bobby-hurleys-volcanic-emotions/111122010/

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-11-2018, 02:42 PM
Loved Bobby as a player, but his "passion" behind the bench is a bit disturbing


https://www.azcentral.com/videos/sports/ncaab/asu/2018/03/05/michael-crow-bobby-hurleys-volcanic-emotions/111122010/

Good thing we don't have any players like that...

duke79
03-11-2018, 04:13 PM
My dark horse candidate is Jay Bilas...just saying

So does that mean that the dark, dark horse candidate is............Dick Vitale?

HereBeforeCoachK
03-11-2018, 04:15 PM
So does that mean that the dark, dark horse candidate is.......Dick Vitale?

Vitale loves Duke far more than Bilas does now.......

juise
03-11-2018, 07:22 PM
Loved Dan’s reaction (https://mobile.twitter.com/BillKoch25/status/972959652769075202) to Bobby getting in the dance. I’m not getting choked up. You are.

AtlBluRew
03-11-2018, 07:55 PM
Loved Dan’s reaction (https://mobile.twitter.com/BillKoch25/status/972959652769075202) to Bobby getting in the dance. I’m not getting choked up. You are.

Yep, I’m choked up. That’s awesome.

weezie
03-11-2018, 08:00 PM
Awww, those kids are pretty cute, too. How great is that?

HereBeforeCoachK
03-11-2018, 08:18 PM
Loved Dan’s reaction (https://mobile.twitter.com/BillKoch25/status/972959652769075202) to Bobby getting in the dance. I’m not getting choked up. You are.

That was great....and actually, Dan's reaction to the Davidson players after that game today was pretty awesome too......seems like a class guy.