MBB: Duke 93, NW Miss State 60 Post-Game Thread (Pre-Season)

[JBDuke]

Put your post-game thoughts here.

[duke4ever19]

Great win after shaking off a few jitters.

Any word on Tucker? He didn't play as much as I expected.

[Troublemaker]

That was a nice, brisk 90-minute game thanks to not a lot of fouls.

We looked really good. Very pleased with pretty much all our players, especially the rotation guys.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Love seeing all the guys excited and cheering for each other. J-Rob!!!

[MarkD83]

Team looked good. Nice balance. But I am confused...

There were 9 players with 14 or more minutes of playing time; 7 with 18 or more minutes and 4 with 20 or more minutes....So on the minutes thread does this team go 9 deep, 7 deep or 4 deep?

[ipatent]

Nice preseason win, I think the game at least brought some clarification as to who is going to start, play and ride the bench.

[duke4ever19]

Nice preseason win, I think the game at least brought some clarification as to who is going to start, play and ride the bench.

I expected to see more Tucker, so that's my one reservation as to this being a look into rotation and minutes.

[SkyBrickey]

Thoughts...

Grayson is poised to have a HUGE year. I'd say he's back in sophomore+ form.

Carter and DeLaurier are rebounding machines.

As of now, I'm expecting Goldwire is in the top 8 and will run the point for 6-8 min per game. He looks confident. All we need is solid D and good decision making. I think he can handle both.

[Duke95]

Loved seeing the team come out with Equality shirts on.

After early jitters, we really settled in. Grayson seems more confident and relaxed and it showed.

Trent just seemed in the flow all game long. Scored from everywhere.

Really happy with what we saw tonight.

[kAzE]

Thoughts...

Grayson is poised to have a HUGE year. I'd say he's back in sophomore+ form.

Carter and DeLaurier are rebounding machines.

As of now, I'm expecting Goldwire is in the top 8 and will run the point for 6-8 min per game. He looks confident. All we need is solid D and good decision making. I think he can handle both.

I’m not so sure about Goldwire getting regular minutes, but I do agree he seems to be the 8th man. He had a flurry of 3 really bad turnovers right at the end of the game, though. He’s gotta make better decisions in transition.

I noted that at least in this game, Javin seemed to be the guy on the perimeter when he was in the game with 2 other bigs. He does seem to have the green light to shoot open 3s, which is exciting. As far as the eye test, he looked awesome. I would be very surprised if Bolden is ahead of him in the rotation at this point.

I missed the first few minutes of the game due to traffic, but as far as I’m aware, bolden and carter did not see the floor at the same time, which lends credence to my hunch that they will sub for each other exclusively at center.

It’s hard to take much from this game, though. It was a severely outmatched opponent, allowing us to go deep into the bench.

[MChambers]

Outside shooting is definitely an issue for this team, but I was delighted to Carter and Delaurier take and make threes. Really makes me think that the coaches are serious about playing a big lineup a significant percentage of the time. Really don’t know if we get much out of White, Tucker, and O’Connell this year. (Did Tucker play?)

I too am a member of the Javin Delaurier Fan Club. It’s early, but he’s bringing defense and rebounding, and making a positive contribution on offense. I can see him getting quite a bit of time. Going to go adjust my playing time prediction!

[Wahoo2000]

Thoughts from an outsider:

Allen and Trent looked terrific. TERRIFIC. Trent looked like he has the ability to be as dominant as his dad was for Ohio back in the day (though in a different way)..... and he's a freshman. Yikes.

After those two, I really think DeLaurier looked like he had the best game of everyone remaining. He definitely has one of those motors that doesn't stop. If he can even SEMI-capably hit the 3 and teams have to guard him out to the perimeter, he's going to be a major headache. He looks like a next-level glue-guy (that's definitely a compliment, I think he'll be the player on your team I'll most enjoy watching).

Carter looked solid/very good, but I wasn't absolutely wowed like I was with the 3 guys above.

No one else in your top 9 or so really stood out to me except for Bagley, but that wasn't in a good way. I've GOT to assume he's a million times better than he showed today. I think I saw a couple of baby hooks go down. Other than that, probably a night for a future lottery pick to forget. His hands looked awful, fumbling several passes without contact/pressure. His shot looked really awkward (unless he called "bank" on that 3), and he fell victim to at least a couple backdoor cuts and was "blown by" badly off the bounce at least once that I remember.

Not a surprise to anyone here I'm sure, but it seems like the key to the season is finding creative ways to NOT allow teams to just pack it into the paint (excepting on Allen). If they can find a second reliable shooter, I think you're pretty complete. If not, you're going to live and die on the offensive glass sometimes (unless they eschew the zone and go to a MUCH higher pressure D and consistently generate buckets off turnovers) - especially if Allen has a bad shooting night. The good news is that you have a ton of bigs with great rebounding ability, so if you MUST have boards, probably a good chance to get them.

If I had to make a guess based on this game, recruiting reports, and rumbles from many that Delaurier may be ready for a semi-breakout year - I'd say you have a window of anywhere from 1st to 4th in the ACC (given that it may only be 1-2 games separating 1st from 4th), with the weight of the probability on 1st or 2nd.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Loved seeing the team come out with Equality shirts on.



Excellent. Also liked it. Smart way to circumvent potential controversy or division.

[drummerdevil]

First thought: GRAYSON.
Second thought: I saw a lot of lazy closeouts. Need to work on that. Otherwise solid defense, good pick and roll defense. Good ball movement.

[ipatent]

I'm not suggesting he's going to see much time this year, but if one projects Justin Robinson's stats in eight minutes tonight (4pts, 3 boards, two assists) to a full forty he'd have a triple double! He was the only reserve that looked very good during mop-up time.

Glad his dad was there to witness it.

[Troublemaker]

Carter looked solid/very good, but I wasn't absolutely wowed like I was with the 3 guys above.

No one else in your top 9 or so really stood out to me except for Bagley, but that wasn't in a good way. I've GOT to assume he's a million times better than he showed today. I think I saw a couple of baby hooks go down. Other than that, probably a night for a future lottery pick to forget. His hands looked awful, fumbling several passes without contact/pressure. His shot looked really awkward (unless he called "bank" on that 3), and he fell victim to at least a couple backdoor cuts and was "blown by" badly off the bounce at least once that I remember.


For their first game, I thought Carter and Bagley looked very good. They dominated inside (as they should against such a small team), and I think you're grading a bit harshly.



Not a surprise to anyone here I'm sure, but it seems like the key to the season is finding creative ways to NOT allow teams to just pack it into the paint (excepting on Allen). If they can find a second reliable shooter, I think you're pretty complete. If not, you're going to live and die on the offensive glass sometimes (unless they eschew the zone and go to a MUCH higher pressure D and consistently generate buckets off turnovers) - especially if Allen has a bad shooting night. The good news is that you have a ton of bigs with great rebounding ability, so if you MUST have boards, probably a good chance to get them.


I can tell you that virtually no one on DBR is worried about scoring, and I doubt this game generated any new concerns there. I'm pleased that our big men are taking and making a few threes, which will help tremendously. Plus, fastbreaks and offensive rebounding (which you mentioned) will help make up for the loss of halfcourt spacing that previous Duke teams enjoyed.

[CajunDevil]

Random Thoughts:

Grayson is healthy (and awesome), and Gary Trent is a stud... STUD!
Wendell Carter is a skilled, grown-I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. man!
Bagley's pass from the post cross-court to Grayson - gorgeous
Duval played with control... almost too much control. That's a fine line K will have to navigate
DeLaurier's outside shot looked pretty fluid... and his athleticism and motor means he will get PT, plenty of it. (btw, Lance Thomas and Amile Jefferson analogs are not good, imo. Javin is more athletic, more skilled on the perimeter, and a better shooter than either)
Don't fret about outside shooting...



This team has potential to be the best team in Duke history. No hyperbole.

[ipatent]

Don't fret about outside shooting...

There may be something to be gleaned by the fact out of 24 three point shot attempts, no player other than Grayson (10) had more than two. That's skewed a little bit because Trent took several shots from just inside the line, and I think he'll provide a little more balance for the rest of the season, but with White, O'Connell and Tucker not in the rotation the three point shooting pretty much defaults to those two.

[mgtr]

A few surprises: As others have said, Javin was a very positive one, as was Trent. Negative ones: Trevon was less than I expected, as was Bolden. However, this is the first game, so it is truly limited, and maybe wildly inaccurate. As insurance, I would like to see Goldwire prepped as a real backup PG. Bagley and Carter were great (allowing for first night jitters), and Grayson was wonderful (whew!). Looks as though it will be a good year. Trent's willingness to take 2 pointers reminded me of Kennard.
I think NWMOST gets props for sticking with their gameplan and not giving up. They kept running their stuff, which was the right thing for them to do.

[jimsumner]

A few surprises: As others have said, Javin was a very positive one, as was Trent. Negative ones: Trevon was less than I expected, as was Bolden. However, this is the first game, so it is truly limited, and maybe wildly inaccurate. As insurance, I would like to see Goldwire prepped as a real backup PG. Bagley and Carter were great (allowing for first night jitters), and Grayson was wonderful (whew!). Looks as though it will be a good year. Trent's willingness to take 2 pointers reminded me of Kennard.
I think NWMOST gets props for sticking with their gameplan and not giving up. They kept running their stuff, which was the right thing for them to do.

K was very complimentary of Duval's defense on Justin Pitts. Pitts is a senior and was the D-2 national player of the year last season. But he went 3-14 against Duke, scoring 7 points, 13 less than his average last season.

Bagley did have a few cases of fumbleitis. But he also had 16 points and 6 rebounds in 23 minutes. Which ain't too shabby.

And I love Trent's mid-range game. So many freshmen wings take 3s or try to get to the rim, with nothing in between. But Trent hit a bunch of 12-15 footers. And yes, he credits his father for helping him refine his game. I suspect he might be better than I had thought and with an NBA-ready body, I can't imagine him sticking around longer than a year.

And we might need to dial back those O'Connell-Kennard comparisons.

[moonpie23]

watching now.....javin looks awesome....confident...

grayson.....well la de da...... :)

trent looks good......tre playing good d on their scorer...

bagley will shake off the jitters....

bolden looking a bit better

good pre season...

[pamtar]

Either NWMS was really small or we are really big. 2-5 we are massive and even Duval has a grown man’s frame.

Bagleys pass was something you don’t usually see from an 18yo.

Goldwire was a lot more impressive than I thought he’d be.

Bolden is still easily confused on D. You can almost hear him overthinking it. I really hope he figures it out.

I had forgotten about Tucker. I don’t know how he wasn’t a 5-star. He had a good block and a couple of other hustle plays. Shot looked flat though. Reminded me of Rodney Hood.

Justin Robison gets MOTM for his putback dunk.

This could be a really, really special team.

[brlftz]

I feel like I am the only one here puzzled by Tucker being the absolute last guy off the bench in garbage time.

[hudlow]

How'd Coach K look?

Was he spry as ever?

[jimsumner]

How'd Coach K look?

Was he spry as ever?

I don't know what you mean by "ever." He is getting up in years.

But he looks like he's recovered from his surgery quite well.

[JasonEvans]

This team has potential to be the best team in Duke history. No hyperbole.

Ummmm, I love this team but what you just wrote is absurd. The 1992 Duke team would wipe the floor with this club and it would be a laugher. 1986 and 1999 would too. Simply too many experienced quality players on those clubs versus the youngsters here. I know the game has changed and all, but those teams would toy with this one because the D would be much much much better than anything 2017-18 will face all year long.

[Troublemaker]

I feel like I am the only one here puzzled by Tucker being the absolute last guy off the bench in garbage time.

It just means he's the 13th man, no?

Right now, 1. Grayson, 2. Marvin, 3. Wendell, 4. Gary, 5. Trevon, 6. Javin, 7. Marques, 8. JGold, 9. Alex, 10. Jack, 11. Vrank, and 12. J-Rob are ahead of JTuck on the roster.

[kAzE]

I feel like I am the only one here puzzled by Tucker being the absolute last guy off the bench in garbage time.

It's one exhibition game, I wouldn't read too much into it. Not to speculate, but maybe he's in the doghouse for some trivial reason. Nothing to be concerned about unless this becomes a pattern.

[kAzE]

Ummmm, I love this team but what you just wrote is absurd. The 1992 Duke team would wipe the floor with this club and it would be a laugher. 1986 and 1999 would too. Simply too many experienced quality players on those clubs versus the youngsters here. I know the game has changed and all, but those teams would toy with this one because the D would be much much much better than anything 2017-18 will face all year long.

Yeah, there's more than a few Duke teams that would probably destroy these guys. Just look at how good Grayson is, and then picture a team full of guys with that amount of experience (and continuity from playing together for years). It wouldn't be close.

Now, if we're talking just pure talent, maybe this team has a case. Depends on how good Bagley becomes. He does look like he could be special.

[sagegrouse]

Ummmm, I love this team but what you just wrote is absurd. The 1992 Duke team would wipe the floor with this club and it would be a laugher. 1986 and 1999 would too. Simply too many experienced quality players on those clubs versus the youngsters here. I know the game has changed and all, but those teams would toy with this one because the D would be much much much better than anything 2017-18 will face all year long.

You are probably right, but it may depend on how much the game and the players have improved over the past 25-30 years. It seems to me that the top players play much more and much higher level basketball as teenagers. And certainly strength training is far ahead of a couple of decades ago.

[jipops]

And we might need to dial back those O'Connell-Kennard comparisons.

Really? Somebody actually went there? smh...

On the whole I thought this was a very impressive outing. Bagley and Carter were quite impressive. I love that both have the ability to post and comfortably step outside with Bagley sometimes used in initiating offense. Carter is a truck. Both appear to relish defense. Weird that our starting center may be more of a 3pt threat than our pg.

Trent shows he belongs and likes the mid-range game. I don't know how well that will play with analytics but it sure looks good.

I know it's just one exhibition game but I may now be convinced that Javin will get significant minutes. He really looks to work the boards. And he may just be versatile enough as a defender. Those two things give the team real value on the floor.

I was hoping to maybe see something from Goldwire to make me think he'll get some minutes to spell Duvall. But it didn't look like it was there. I still see just 7 guys being the rotation.

Edit: Bagley's passing ability (and willingness to do so) should not go unmentioned.

[devildeac]

Thoughts from an outsider:

Allen and Trent looked terrific. TERRIFIC. Trent looked like he has the ability to be as dominant as his dad was for Ohio back in the day (though in a different way)... and he's a freshman. Yikes.

After those two, I really think DeLaurier looked like he had the best game of everyone remaining. He definitely has one of those motors that doesn't stop. If he can even SEMI-capably hit the 3 and teams have to guard him out to the perimeter, he's going to be a major headache. He looks like a next-level glue-guy (that's definitely a compliment, I think he'll be the player on your team I'll most enjoy watching).

Carter looked solid/very good, but I wasn't absolutely wowed like I was with the 3 guys above.

No one else in your top 9 or so really stood out to me except for Bagley, but that wasn't in a good way. I've GOT to assume he's a million times better than he showed today. I think I saw a couple of baby hooks go down. Other than that, probably a night for a future lottery pick to forget. His hands looked awful, fumbling several passes without contact/pressure. His shot looked really awkward (unless he called "bank" on that 3), and he fell victim to at least a couple backdoor cuts and was "blown by" badly off the bounce at least once that I remember.

Not a surprise to anyone here I'm sure, but it seems like the key to the season is finding creative ways to NOT allow teams to just pack it into the paint (excepting on Allen). If they can find a second reliable shooter, I think you're pretty complete. If not, you're going to live and die on the offensive glass sometimes (unless they eschew the zone and go to a MUCH higher pressure D and consistently generate buckets off turnovers) - especially if Allen has a bad shooting night. The good news is that you have a ton of bigs with great rebounding ability, so if you MUST have boards, probably a good chance to get them.

If I had to make a guess based on this game, recruiting reports, and rumbles from many that Delaurier may be ready for a semi-breakout year - I'd say you have a window of anywhere from 1st to 4th in the ACC (given that it may only be 1-2 games separating 1st from 4th), with the weight of the probability on 1st or 2nd.

Nicely done. Thanks!

I nominate Wahoo2000 to start the UVA Hoops '17-'18 thread. Analytical, objective, intelligent, thorough, non-trolling. And there'll likely be no need for a disclaimer in the thread title:rolleyes:.

[duke4ever19]

Thoughts from an outsider:

No one else in your top 9 or so really stood out to me except for Bagley, but that wasn't in a good way. I've GOT to assume he's a million times better than he showed today. I think I saw a couple of baby hooks go down. Other than that, probably a night for a future lottery pick to forget. His hands looked awful, fumbling several passes without contact/pressure. His shot looked really awkward (unless he called "bank" on that 3), and he fell victim to at least a couple backdoor cuts and was "blown by" badly off the bounce at least once that I remember.



Bagley went 6-10 from the floor with 16 points and 6 rebounds in 23 minutes. No offense, but that's a bit more than a couple baby hooks.

I think people are honing-in on his shaky start and perhaps that is letting it color their perception of the rest of the time he was in the game. He had some nice moments out there after the jitters went away.

I'm going to go back and watch this again when I have time tomorrow.

[InSpades]

Overall the team definitely looked great...

Every year I (and a bunch of other posters) always seem to think this is the year that we will go really deep on the bench... and I think we will this year. Mostly because I think we will blow out a lot of teams. After seeing the scrimmage tonight I think we will rightfully be back to the 7-man rotation when things start to matter more. That's not a knock against the depth because I think it is there... I just think K will having a hard time sitting any of the top 5 or so.

Grayson looked like sophomore year Grayson and that's got to be frightening to Duke's future opponents. He looked healthy and confident which is all he needs to dominate games. It's going to be fun to watch him play this year.

Trent Jr. was the freshman who impressed me the most. Very few mistakes, confidence in his shot, just looked like a seasoned veteran out there.

Clark Jr. and Bagley both had their moments to shine but it's tough to judge the performance of our bigs against a team w/out any height to compete down low. I'm encouraged that they both seemed very active in the lane on defense. They both clearly have some well developed offensive moves.

Some people were a bit down on Duval's performance and I can see why but... he had some flashes. And I honestly believe he doesn't need to do too much out there. If he can just get other people involved, play solid defense and create chances for other people w/ his drive then I think that's enough. I hope he's not scoring 15 per night... cause that's not what we need from him.

Off the bench... the main standout was obviously Javin. Great hustle on defense and he put in some work on the boards as well. His 3 point shot didn't look bad and he had a nice finish in a dump-off from Grayson. Will he be the 6th man? That would be interesting.

Bolden looked a little better than last year?

Goldwire didn't stand out good or bad and he will likely see time just due to Duke's lack of depth in the back court.

Fun game. Should be a fun season. The sky is the limit for this team!

[kAzE]

Watching the replay right now and just jotting down some thoughts on each of the main rotation guys:

Grayson: Solid Grayson game. Typical of his expected performance, an All-American if healthy. He will lead the team in scoring, and he'll do it very efficiently, like he always does.

Gary: Very impressive debut. Made smart plays and took good shots. He played like a veteran. Of all the freshman, I thought Gary made the fewest bad mistakes. I think he's going to be 2nd on the team in minutes behind Grayson.

Marvin: I think he just woke up from a nap to start the game. Some puzzling unforced errors including dropping an easy pass out of bounds and just inexplicably falling over because his legs buckled under him like a newborn deer . . . But once he got a sweat going, he was dominant. His talent pops off the screen. Even my wife said "who's that guy??" when she saw him. His length, skill, and athleticism are game-breaking.

Javin: Made impact plays almost constantly while he was in. Incredible motor and nose for the ball for a guy this size. I've been saying it since last year, he's a more athletic version of Amile Jefferson. Blocking and altering shots all over the place, grabbing rebounds over 2 or 3 opposing players in traffic and way out of position, scoring efficiently on limited attempts. This guy does a little bit of everything. Quintessential glue guy. I thought he played the best defense on the team. He's going to play a lot of minutes. He might get some minutes at the 3.

Wendell: This guy can really score. We've got to make sure he gets consistent touches in the post, where he's extremely efficient and can score with his back to the basket over either shoulder. He's got great hands (what a catch and finish to end the first half) and he's a total beast in the paint. He will demand double teams constantly. I really like his game. He's got a little Al Horford in him.

Trevon: He's clearly an insane athlete, but he relies much too heavily on his athleticism, and makes plays harder than they need to be. Takes a lot of risks. For some reason likes to jump-pass sometimes when he doesn't need to jump to make that play. The talent is clear, but he's got to learn how to play more under control. He also had a few plays on defense where his effort could have been much better. Spatola knows what he's talking about, Duval is the key. His growth is going to be important. He was okay tonight, but you can just tell, he's got tons of room for improvement.

Marques: When the effort is there, he's actually an excellent defender. He doesn't have the ability to cover ground incredibly quickly, but he's just so damn huge. That size is incredible, and for him, it's a matter of conditioning. I think he probably will play around 12-15 minutes a night, and those should be good minutes as long as he can stay out of foul trouble. Still not convinced he can do much on offense. He's not that good a rebounder, and doesn't have great hands.

Overall, we did what we were supposed to do against a DII opponent. The big guys looked better than they probably will ultimately be, due to their overwhelming size advantage in this game. I thought we passed the eye test for a top 5 team, though. The size and athleticism is crazy. Really excited for this season! LGD!!

[MChambers]

K was very complimentary of Duval's defense on Justin Pitts. Pitts is a senior and was the D-2 national player of the year last season. But he went 3-14 against Duke, scoring 7 points, 13 less than his average last season.
Great point, Jim. Before the game, lots of folks here were worried that Pitts would carve us up. You hardly heard his name in the broadcast.

[CajunDevil]

Ummmm, I love this team but what you just wrote is absurd. The 1992 Duke team would wipe the floor with this club and it would be a laugher. 1986 and 1999 would too. Simply too many experienced quality players on those clubs versus the youngsters here. I know the game has changed and all, but those teams would toy with this one because the D would be much much much better than anything 2017-18 will face all year long.

“Potential” was included in my sentence above for a reason, Jason. This team has more raw talent than any team Duke’s had and how they develop from game one of preseason to hopefully April will determine if they can make up the wide chasm that currently exists between the ‘17-18 team and the ‘92, ‘99, and ‘01 teams. Do I think they will be a better team? Probably not. But, do they have the potential to be better - maybe.

[lotusland]

I didn't really see much negative in Bolden or Bagley's performance. Bagley's size an agility at the 4 is going to cause a lot of problems for opponents. Bolden looked strong and confident to me. I like the idea of a true 4 man rotation in the post with 2 fresh bigs in at all times.

Duval managed a nice stat line even with a terrible looking shot. He's going to be left alone on ther perimeter which is a shame because he could really wreak havoc in the lane with only decent shot to keep the defense honest. Still Duval on the break with Grayson on the wing and our bigs filling the lane should be a thing of beauty. I hope he can be a defensive stopper and create turnovers too. JGold can probably manage well enough to spell him 5 or so MPG. I don't think GA at point will be a great option for this team with a derth of shooters but I'm sure we'll see that some.

[Troublemaker]

Morning-after Coffee Thoughts:


The frontcourt especially impressed me. The foursome of Wendell, Marvin, Javin, and Marques are so mobile for their size. We're going to make mistakes on defense, but these four are going to clean up a lot of mistakes just by running to the ball and freaking out opposing players into misses with our shot challenges. Big men should not move like these guys do.
In addition, on offense, Wendell and Marvin are skilled, poised, and have nice touch. There are maybe 10 total post players in the country that you can run efficient post offense through. We have two of them, imo, although we have to see them play against teams with size to confirm.
Overall, our fearsome foursome of big men probably make up Duke's best frontcourt since at least 2001 (Sr Battier, So Boozer, So Sanders, Fr Love).
Duke's press was workmanlike and not meant to produce turnovers, at least in this game. The press was used more to just get the ball out of Justin Pitts' hands and force him to work very hard to get it back thanks to Trevon's denial defense. We've seen Duke use this tactic before, and we'll use it this year against the likes of Joel Berry and Quentin Snider.
I was proud of Trevon. This was only against the Div II champs, but he gave the sort of performance that I hope to see against good Div I teams as well. He was the primary defender on Pitts and forced him into an inefficient day within our scheme. He looked really quick in denial defense and got a steal and dunk off of it. Trevon also finished with 5 assists and 1 turnover, not forcing things too much, and did a good job of pushing the ball and getting us into early offense before the defense is fully set.
Grayson made two floaters, IIRC, which is huge for him. If he's really added that shot to his repertoire, then he's unstoppable (except for random bad shooting nights) and arguably the best offensive weapon in the country. Grayson no longer has to get all the way to the rim and beat big men challenges, which he has sometimes struggled with in the past. That's probably good for his health, too.
Just like with CTC, Duke's defense gave up a ton of 3-pt attempts again. We'll need to continue to collect more data to see if this change is real, but so far Duke does seem to be leaving shooters to help inside much more liberally than we've done in past years, where we've always ranked near the top of the country in limiting 3-pt attempts.
The defense was good but not perfect by any means. As the game proceeded, NWMoSt's guards started to "reject the ball screen" more often (i.e. fake dribbling in the direction of the screen, and then go the other way), and this tactic fooled Trevon and JGold a few times. They'll need to do a better job of not falling for that trick.
Lineup-wise, I don't believe Marques and Wendell played together at all. That's the way it should be, imo, as Wendell is a pure center. That means Bagley spent no time at SF, which again is the right move, imo. He's one of our two best players most likely, and we should only use him in spots where he's maximized. Playing out of position is something best left to role players.

[azzefkram]

At the beginning of every season, I talk myself into the possibility of Duke going 8, 9 or 10 players deep. Despite the mountain of data that Kedsy provides and what my own eyes witness, I usually don't disabuse myself of this faulty notion until about mid-January. Well old dogs can learn new tricks. This is a seven deep team with number 7 being comprised of 2 halves. Despite the fact that he was second off of the bench, I think Javin will be the sixth man by December. He seems capable of covering the 5 through 3. His motor is better focused. His offense is limited but he will always be surrounded by enough offensive firepower that this won't be a hinderance. Our starters look really good. Grayson is going to be a beast this year. Trevon seemed steadier than he was during CtC. His defense looked really good. We might have a respectable perimeter D this year. Despite his penchant for taking the worst shot in basketball, I thought Gary looked smooth on both sides of the ball. Wendell and Marvin are going to be great in the post. Marques is a bit of a puzzlement to me. At times he looks really good, but most of time he seems to be coasting out there.

Surprised we didn't run more.

[camion]

I really like this team, but keep in mind that We Are Young. That's exciting, but sometimes frustrating.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9g5m3z24jJM

[MCFinARL]

Trent shows he belongs and likes the mid-range game. I don't know how well that will play with analytics but it sure looks good.



Yes, there was a lot of talk by the commentators about the analytics--but if the defense is offering open long twos and you can hit them consistently, which it appears Trent can for sure based on last night's game, why not take them? Granted a made three is better than a made two, seven made twos and no misses (according to the box score, Trent missed only two of nine shots--both three point attempts) is better than, say, four made threes and three misses.

[BD80]

Haven't watched the game - yet.

No mention of Vrank?

[arnie]

At the beginning of every season, I talk myself into the possibility of Duke going 8, 9 or 10 players deep. Despite the mountain of data that Kedsy provides and what my own eyes witness, I usually don't disabuse myself of this faulty notion until about mid-January. Well old dogs can learn new tricks. This is a seven deep team with number 7 being comprised of 2 halves. Despite the fact that he was second off of the bench, I think Javin will be the sixth man by December. He seems capable of covering the 5 through 3. His motor is better focused. His offense is limited but he will always be surrounded by enough offensive firepower that this won't be a hinderance. Our starters look really good. Grayson is going to be a beast this year. Trevon seemed steadier than he was during CtC. His defense looked really good. We might have a respectable perimeter D this year. Despite his penchant for taking the worst shot in basketball, I thought Gary looked smooth on both sides of the ball. Wendell and Marvin are going to be great in the post. Marques is a bit of a puzzlement to me. At times he looks really good, but most of time he seems to be coasting out there.

Surprised we didn't run more.
I tend to agree with your depth summary. Assuming no devastating injuries, I think as the season progresses it will be a 6-man rotation (5 starters + JavinJ with spot duty for Bolden and Goldwire. I just don’t see Marques getting substantial minutes unless a Big goes down. Duval will need rest and I doubt we rely totally on Grayson for sub pt guard minutes.

[Ultrarunner]

Haven't watched the game - yet.

No mention of Vrank?

Vrank got some burn but didn't do a whole lot. Like a lot of past Duke big men, he seems to have problems with smaller, more mobile opponents. When we need a banger, he'll do better.

[DukieInBrasil]

I enjoyed watching the team play again! I have to say that i echo K's enthusiasm for the opponents (in this case NWMSU) to re-celebrate their own Natty, and that it is really cool for them. I really appreciate K's commitment to this idea and the unqualified support for teams from other divisions to be viewed as champions. It's a good habit, especially or such a young team, to understand that the other team is going to be prepared for us every night.

I liked what i saw, basically. I saw a PG who can get out and run and get to the rim if it's available or can kick across court for an open 3. I also saw a PG with a terrible looking shot from 3. I saw a Sr SG who looks comfortable shooting 3s, getting to the rim, and (finally!!!) able to get points in the mid-range too. I saw another SG who can score from all over inside the 3pt line, though i'm not sure if he hit a 3. I saw a menagerie of enormous dudes who have the potential to rule the paint. Carter and Javin really stood out to me, relative to expectations. Carter hitting shots over both shoulders and grabbing boards, exactly what we need from him. Javin showed good rebounding, great athleticism and shot blocking/altering, and garbage point ability. Plus Javin showed that his HS 3pt shooting prowess was not a fluke. Bagley looked really, really good at times but tried to make the too-difficult play at times. Bolden looked better than he did at the end of last year, but looks like he still has plenty to work on. But what i loved from our bigs was the willingness/ability to pass. That bodes well.
Outside of our top 7, i didn't see much that made me sit up and take notice. None of Vrank, White, O'Connell or Tucker did much. Justin Robinson, otoh, was impressive, in as much as that means anything. Being able to get follow slams is nice! Goldwire did a decent job when he was paired with other top-7 players, but when surrounded by other south-of-the-rotation players he didn't do anything of note. None of this is too surprising, but this game didn't show that any of those 6 guys are really pushing to be "in the rotation". I guess we'll learn more in the next exhibition, which is the CIAA champs, so maybe an opportunity for the SOTR players to get more PT.
Overall, very satisfying. As this team learns more about playing together, they'll improve on things. Almost all of the negatives that i saw were on the defensive side of the ball. Our guards got caught out of position and got burned for cuts to the basket on a few occasions and we also left guys for wide open 3s quite a few times. As K said though, NWMSU is a team that runs really good offense so it's not a surprise that they know how to generate a decent shot.
On offense, i am not worried at all. The negatives, if they can even be called that, were just from guys trying to get a too-difficult shot up when finding someone else would have been better. Our passing was good, maybe even great, our outside shooting was diverse and we made a lot, our inside scoring was diverse and we made a lot, and our mid-range game was diverse and we made a lot.
One final thing to note: this game was called for flowy hoops fans, virtually no fouls were called. So that remains one thing to keep an eye on: how does this team respond to a more tightly called game, and how does this team respond to foul trouble?

[Sixthman]

There's not a lot you can tell when you have the advantages we had last night with respect to size and athleticism. I did think that this group of big men showed very quick recovery on defense for early in the season. On offense, I liked the decisiveness of all four bigs. Javin and Carter were particularly decisive with the ball on offense -- a characteristic that rewards teams with more than one big on the court because a miss might just be rebounded and put back on the other side.

I thought Goldwire was a revelation. Whether he sees much game action or not, he looked pretty decent out there, guarding a talented point guard and working our offense. Better than advertised.

Marques Bolden has a lot of talent. The improved conditioning we heard about seemed apparent last night. He seemed a little more confident. I'd like to see him playing with a lot more confidence. I hope he will show up as a little more physically dominant in early season competition than he did last night. I think he needs some early season success to build that confidence.

Trent, Jr. can play. Put him on the short list for who's stepping up to take the shot when we really need a basket in a close game. He may also be the key to keeping other teams from packing their defense down low to stop our bigs.

One of the nice things about depth is it gives some of the freshman time to change their game over the course of the season. They don't have to play so hard every game that the team can't practice aggressively. It will be fun to watch these guys develop.

I'm disappointed we didn't see more of the transition game last night. I expect that after the exhibitions we will play a good bit of full court zone defense to generate some steals. We have just the right talent to do that.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Haven't watched the game - yet.

No mention of Vrank?

Scrub minutes. With DeLaurier fully in the mix, don't see an opportunity for Vrank. And yesterday's minutes reflected that.

The most interesting thing to me was Goldwire. With the elites (ie the 4 starters), he looked good and capable. Without them, he looked awful. I think he will play. I am now convinced. Coach K doesn't want Grayson playing the 1 and that means Goldwire will need to sub in.

[Troublemaker]

Yes, there was a lot of talk by the commentators about the analytics--but if the defense is offering open long twos and you can hit them consistently, which it appears Trent can for sure based on last night's game, why not take them? Granted a made three is better than a made two, seven made twos and no misses (according to the box score, Trent missed only two of nine shots--both three point attempts) is better than, say, four made threes and three misses.

Yeah, I'm willing to keep an open mind about Gary's 2-pt jumpers. Just like there are a few postup players that are efficient, there do exist some guys who can hit those 2-pt jumpers efficiently, and maybe Gary is one of them. I like Gary's floater game, too.

[DukieInBrasil]

Haven't watched the game - yet.

No mention of Vrank?

the only thing i remember Vrank doing was bricking a long, long 2pt jumper. Not his game really. As mentioned, chasing around smaller post players is not what we need Vrank for, so this game didn't really have much role for him to play.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Liked what I saw, but this was only an exhibition, so I'm keeping my thoughts open to most opinions formed last night. Here are the crucial ones:

1) Duval can't shoot 3s. I hope he continues to take open 3s and knocks down at least 25%. But that may be pushing it.

2) Bolden looked way to hesitant on offense early on. He needs to realize that he's bigger than everyone and try hard on every offensive possession.

3) Trent Jr needs more props. He will be second in minutes on this team. I'm convinced. I love his aggressiveness on offense and defense

4) The team is trying on D!!! Love smothering the PG. Still lots of holes (what do you expect), but they are trying really hard on D. In an exhibition game. Love it.

5) White, Vrank, Robinson, and Tucker will not play this year. They will only get in for scrub minutes in games where we are up at least 20. I'm still optimistic that O'Connell and Goldwire can provide spot minutes.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Ummmm, I love this team but what you just wrote is absurd. The 1992 Duke team would wipe the floor with this club and it would be a laugher. 1986 and 1999 would too. Simply too many experienced quality players on those clubs versus the youngsters here. I know the game has changed and all, but those teams would toy with this one because the D would be much much much better than anything 2017-18 will face all year long.

Yup.
Love, Ima

[Kedsy]

Despite his penchant for taking the worst shot in basketball, I thought Gary looked smooth on both sides of the ball.

Yeah, when he starts being guarded by guys closer to his size and athletic ability, I have a feeling Gary and his inefficient shot selection are going to be the cause of a whole lot of grumbling under a whole lot of DBR folks' breaths.

[jv001]

Thanks to those that gave see the ones, like me who didn't see our exhibition game some very good observations. My question; do you think Coach K will redshirt any of the guys who will only get mop-up minutes. I guess it's really too early to be thinking about this because someone may step up and make it hard for the Coach to make that kind of decision. Then again, November is only 5 days away. Once again thanks to those who have given us some good info on our really young team. GoDuke!

[mattman91]

Thanks to those that gave see the ones, like me who didn't see our exhibition game some very good observations. My question; do you think Coach K will redshirt any of the guys who will only get mop-up minutes. I guess it's really too early to be thinking about this because someone may step up and make it hard for the Coach to make that kind of decision. Then again, November is only 5 days away. Once again thanks to those who have given us some good info on our really young team. GoDuke!

Does playing in an exhibition game burn your redshirt? I don't think it does, but if anyone were going to, my guess would be Tucker.

[jv001]

Does playing in an exhibition game burn your redshirt? I don't think it does, but if anyone were going to, my guess would be Tucker.

I don't think it burns your redshirt. From most posts on last nights game, I would say Tucker sounds like the player most likely to get a redshirt season. However I thought Tucker had the reputation of being a good outside threat. If so, he could help keep the opposition from packing it in our big front line. GoDuke!

[azzefkram]

Yeah, when he starts being guarded by guys closer to his size and athletic ability, I have a feeling Gary and his inefficient shot selection are going to be the cause of a whole lot of grumbling under a whole lot of DBR folks' breaths.

I think you are taking it too easy on DBR Kedsy. I'm worried about (in the spirit of the season) pitchforks, torches and storming the castle. I am curious how much leeway Coach K will grant him given the offence around him.

[Troublemaker]

Does playing in an exhibition game burn your redshirt? I don't think it does, but if anyone were going to, my guess would be Tucker.

Freshmen can play exhibition games and still redshirt. Non-freshmen can't.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Some quick thoughts after watching the WatchESPN replay this am,

Grayson looked healthy and in shape, had that bounce and quickness to his step again. The kid can play, now needs to show he can lead as a senior.

Trent was really impressive to me. Showed a feel for the flow that is usually missing from freshmen. Stayed under control at a high level of play. I like his game.

Carter looked good as a strong post player. Nice footwork, good hands and some scoring touch. He should get evenbetter as he gets in better shape, which is scary.

Watching Bagley I had to remind myself that he was 6'11". Great looking athlete, roams around the court like a 6'8" wing. I can see why the NBA is calling for him. Just has to settle in and let the game come to him, then he will dominate his matchups.

Overall there seems to great skill balance to this Duke team, meaning the right skills in the right positions. Depth will be an issue, but the top 6 are going to be tough for any team in the country.

[DukieInBrasil]

Does playing in an exhibition game burn your redshirt? I don't think it does, but if anyone were going to, my guess would be Tucker.

It's possible that Tucker had a mild injury lingering from practice or was maybe under the weather, so i wouldn't read too much into his limited time. If he continues to not play in the next exhibition game, i'd start to think of those options.
I had assumed that Goldwire would be the most likely to red-shirt, due to his HS ranking and the fact that we have a bona fide PG, and a reasonable back-up PG in our Sr captain. I'm not sure that's the case anymore, although K may think differently. I had also thought it mildly likely that Alex would red shirt, but his performance in the CTC made it seem like he's ready to contribute something positive this year. His performance last night was not remarkable in any way. Tucker seemed least likely to red shirt to me due to his reputation as a 3pt shooter, which is a skill that may be in short supply on this team. Buckmire joined the squad so late and is so unlikely to see meaningful minutes that a red shirt makes a lot of sense for him.
All of Alex, J-Tuck and J-Gold played reasonably well in the CTC, and all hit at least 1 3pt shot, which is most likely to be the thing this team will need in a pinch at some point. Both Alex and J-Gold did other things too, that would seem to enhance their value to the team more than what J-Tuck did.
Particularly in J-Gold's case, where his ranking gives him the perception of limited pro potential, taking a red-shirt might be the most attractive thing (among those 3) since it could put him in position to graduate with both a bachelor's and a 1-yr master's degree from Duke, all on scholarship. J-Tuck and Alex are both long-shots to play in the NBA at this point, but lucrative careers overseas are certainly strong bets for them, so red shirting doesn't seem to make as much sense for them if they want to start a career as early as possible.
In short, i'd be surprised if someone doesn't red shirt, in addition to Buckmire.

[jimsumner]

Morning-after Coffee Thoughts:


The frontcourt especially impressed me. The foursome of Wendell, Marvin, Javin, and Marques are so mobile for their size. We're going to make mistakes on defense, but these four are going to clean up a lot of mistakes just by running to the ball and freaking out opposing players into misses with our shot challenges. Big men should not move like these guys do.
In addition, on offense, Wendell and Marvin are skilled, poised, and have nice touch. There are maybe 10 total post players in the country that you can run efficient post offense through. We have two of them, imo, although we have to see them play against teams with size to confirm.
Overall, our fearsome foursome of big men probably make up Duke's best frontcourt since at least 2001 (Sr Battier, So Boozer, So Sanders, Fr Love).
Duke's press was workmanlike and not meant to produce turnovers, at least in this game. The press was used more to just get the ball out of Justin Pitts' hands and force him to work very hard to get it back thanks to Trevon's denial defense. We've seen Duke use this tactic before, and we'll use it this year against the likes of Joel Berry and Quentin Snider.
I was proud of Trevon. This was only against the Div II champs, but he gave the sort of performance that I hope to see against good Div I teams as well. He was the primary defender on Pitts and forced him into an inefficient day within our scheme. He looked really quick in denial defense and got a steal and dunk off of it. Trevon also finished with 5 assists and 1 turnover, not forcing things too much, and did a good job of pushing the ball and getting us into early offense before the defense is fully set.
Grayson made two floaters, IIRC, which is huge for him. If he's really added that shot to his repertoire, then he's unstoppable (except for random bad shooting nights) and arguably the best offensive weapon in the country. Grayson no longer has to get all the way to the rim and beat big men challenges, which he has sometimes struggled with in the past. That's probably good for his health, too.
Just like with CTC, Duke's defense gave up a ton of 3-pt attempts again. We'll need to continue to collect more data to see if this change is real, but so far Duke does seem to be leaving shooters to help inside much more liberally than we've done in past years, where we've always ranked near the top of the country in limiting 3-pt attempts.
The defense was good but not perfect by any means. As the game proceeded, NWMoSt's guards started to "reject the ball screen" more often (i.e. fake dribbling in the direction of the screen, and then go the other way), and this tactic fooled Trevon and JGold a few times. They'll need to do a better job of not falling for that trick.
Lineup-wise, I don't believe Marques and Wendell played together at all. That's the way it should be, imo, as Wendell is a pure center. That means Bagley spent no time at SF, which again is the right move, imo. He's one of our two best players most likely, and we should only use him in spots where he's maximized. Playing out of position is something best left to role players.


Some good points. But I'm curious about your 2001 mention. Reggie Love played 130 minutes that season, with 28 points and 33 rebounds. Matt Christensen played more. Love was hardly a part of the post rotation. Perhaps 2010, with Singler, Thomas, Plumlee and Plumee is a better comparison.

I talked to Allen after the game and he confirmed that he was attempting to add more mid-range to his game, partly to lessen the risk of injuries at the rim. A floater is worth the same two points as a dunk.

[Kedsy]

Perhaps 2010, with Singler, Thomas, Plumlee and Plumee is a better comparison.


You mean Zoubek, not Singler, right?

[lotusland]

It's possible that Tucker had a mild injury lingering from practice or was maybe under the weather, so i wouldn't read too much into his limited time. If he continues to not play in the next exhibition game, i'd start to think of those options.
I had assumed that Goldwire would be the most likely to red-shirt, due to his HS ranking and the fact that we have a bona fide PG, and a reasonable back-up PG in our Sr captain. I'm not sure that's the case anymore, although K may think differently. I had also thought it mildly likely that Alex would red shirt, but his performance in the CTC made it seem like he's ready to contribute something positive this year. His performance last night was not remarkable in any way. Tucker seemed least likely to red shirt to me due to his reputation as a 3pt shooter, which is a skill that may be in short supply on this team. Buckmire joined the squad so late and is so unlikely to see meaningful minutes that a red shirt makes a lot of sense for him.
All of Alex, J-Tuck and J-Gold played reasonably well in the CTC, and all hit at least 1 3pt shot, which is most likely to be the thing this team will need in a pinch at some point. Both Alex and J-Gold did other things too, that would seem to enhance their value to the team more than what J-Tuck did.
Particularly in J-Gold's case, where his ranking gives him the perception of limited pro potential, taking a red-shirt might be the most attractive thing (among those 3) since it could put him in position to graduate with both a bachelor's and a 1-yr master's degree from Duke, all on scholarship. J-Tuck and Alex are both long-shots to play in the NBA at this point, but lucrative careers overseas are certainly strong bets for them, so red shirting doesn't seem to make as much sense for them if they want to start a career as early as possible.
In short, i'd be surprised if someone doesn't red shirt, in addition to Buckmire.

I'd like to see Vrank redshirt because we just don't need him this year. After what happened with Murphy I wouldn't redshirt as a freshman at Duke unless I was willing to commit to 4 years regardless of PT. Red shirting makes transferring much less attractive. Vrank can redshirt and still do a graduate transfer if Duke brings in guys ahead of him in 2 years.

[jimsumner]

You mean Zoubek, not Singler, right?

Yes, Zoubek. Thanks.

[Devil549]

Very athletic team to be so big/tall....Duke has solid inside big men/back to the basket players I hope we take advantage of it.

IMO Coach K has the numbers to make sure everybody is playing defense because the intensity has been lacking recently. I would love to see Coach K go with an 8 man rotation and think he has the talent to play 8.

[Kedsy]

IMO Coach K has the numbers to make sure everybody is playing defense because the intensity has been lacking recently. I would love to see Coach K go with an 8 man rotation and think he has the talent to play 8.

Why do you think an 8-man rotation would play defense with more intensity than a 7-man rotation?

[DukieInBrasil]

I'd like to see Vrank redshirt because we just don't need him this year. After what happened with Murphy I wouldn't redshirt as a freshman at Duke unless I was willing to commit to 4 years regardless of PT. Red shirting makes transferring much less attractive. Vrank can redshirt and still do a graduate transfer if Duke brings in guys ahead of him in 2 years.

From Vrank's perspective, he can probably have a nice career in Europe probably make a few million $$$ over several years. Why would he stay for an extra year of red-shirt when he can start getting paid? He can get his degree, get trained to be a competent professional, and embark on that career in 4 years. If he stayed an extra year i doubt he would change his NBA potential any. I would say that Vrank is a better prospect for the old NBA, where he could play the non-mobile C position. Otoh, MP3 shows us that a 5 yr college guy with absolutely no NBA prospects can emerge in that 5th year and play his way into the NBA.

[golfinesquire]

I'd like to see Vrank redshirt because we just don't need him this year. After what happened with Murphy I wouldn't redshirt as a freshman at Duke unless I was willing to commit to 4 years regardless of PT. Red shirting makes transferring much less attractive. Vrank can redshirt and still do a graduate transfer if Duke brings in guys ahead of him in 2 years.

Vrank is ineligible to redshirt. He layed an exhibition game as an upperclassman.

[lotusland]

Vrank is ineligible to redshirt. He layed an exhibition game as an upperclassman.

This appears to be correct but I'm wondering how Amile got an extra year after playing in real games. I guess it has to do with the injury but seems strange that playing in a scrimmage burns a possible red-shirt.

"Redshirt: In Divisions I or II, redshirting refers to someone who is enrolled full-time at a school, but does not play for an entire academic year for the sole purpose of saving a season of competition. A redshirt does not play in any college games or scrimmage in a given sport for an entire academic year, even though that student is otherwise eligible. If you do not play in a sport the entire academic year, you have not used a season of competition. However, if you play in even one second of a game as a college student-athlete, you are not a redshirt. Redshirting does not exist in Division III because if you play or practice after your first opportunity to compete, you are charged with a season of participation.

Before College

A new rule allows Division I student athletes to participate in preseason practice or exhibition games against competition during their initial year of enrollment without losing a season of competition. You will need to check if your sport has this rule in place because not all sports apply to this rule."



http://www.ncaa.org/student-athletes/current/transfer-terms

[duke96]

Javin "the Microwave" DeLaurier?

[lotusland]

From Vrank's perspective, he can probably have a nice career in Europe probably make a few million $$$ over several years. Why would he stay for an extra year of red-shirt when he can start getting paid? He can get his degree, get trained to be a competent professional, and embark on that career in 4 years. If he stayed an extra year i doubt he would change his NBA potential any. I would say that Vrank is a better prospect for the old NBA, where he could play the non-mobile C position. Otoh, MP3 shows us that a 5 yr college guy with absolutely no NBA prospects can emerge in that 5th year and play his way into the NBA.

There have been plenty of graduate transfers who were better players than Vrank and who could expect to have every bit as lucrative career playing in Europe. I know his father is European but I think Vrank was born and raised in the US. His reasons for using the graduate transfer rule would be the same any other player.

[jimsumner]

This appears to be correct but I'm wondering how Amile got an extra year after playing in real games. I guess it has to do with the injury but seems strange that playing in a scrimmage burns a possible red-shirt.

"Redshirt: In Divisions I or II, redshirting refers to someone who is enrolled full-time at a school, but does not play for an entire academic year for the sole purpose of saving a season of competition. A redshirt does not play in any college games or scrimmage in a given sport for an entire academic year, even though that student is otherwise eligible. If you do not play in a sport the entire academic year, you have not used a season of competition. However, if you play in even one second of a game as a college student-athlete, you are not a redshirt. Redshirting does not exist in Division III because if you play or practice after your first opportunity to compete, you are charged with a season of participation.

Before College

A new rule allows Division I student athletes to participate in preseason practice or exhibition games against competition during their initial year of enrollment without losing a season of competition. You will need to check if your sport has this rule in place because not all sports apply to this rule."

http://www.ncaa.org/student-athletes/current/transfer-terms

Jefferson applied for and was granted a medical hardship for the 2015-16 season.

[chriso]

Funny I thought the same thing about Vrank redshirting; mainly because I like his game and I think he could really help us for two more years (after this season). Unless there are some unfortunate circumstances (not going to say the "I" word) to those ahead of him in the frontcourt it is unlikely he will see much time this year. But I doubt the redshirt will happen.

[jimsumner]

My understanding is that Vrankovic was offered the chance to sit out his freshman year and declined.

[Henderson]

It may be a mistake to assume before the season begins that we have too many players, or too many big guys.

[Kedsy]

It may be a mistake to assume before the season begins that we have too many players, or too many big guys.

Well, that's the beauty of a redshirt. If at any time you decide you want to burn the redshirt and let the guy play, you can. You just can't do it the other way around.

That said, I'll be surprised if anybody redshirts.

[superdave]

Grayson looked healthy and in shape, had that bounce and quickness to his step again. The kid can play, now needs to show he can lead as a senior.


Thinking back to Quinn Cook in 2015, he was the senior leader. He was kind of the pied piper of that team. But by the end of the season, the team had its own identify and you also had Amile, Marshall and Matt who had tenure.

No one on this roster had contributed in a significant way other than Grayson. He has little margin for error as a leader. I suspect the coaches are on the, and I dont really know how you manage that dynamic, but it is noteworthy.

[superdave]

Why do you think an 8-man rotation would play defense with more intensity than a 7-man rotation?

We have four big guys that have very little experience at this level of play. That means foul trouble and lack of focus at times to me. I can recall Coach K playing zone at time the last few years to protect against fouls. I guess you could rotate your bigs for shorter stints to keep them focused. I do supect there will be games where our bigs struggle with a couple of early fouls and that gives Bolden and DeLaurier a bump in minutes.

I also think that Carter and Bagley start clicking in February or so and make this a moot point.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Thinking back to Quinn Cook in 2015, he was the senior leader. He was kind of the pied piper of that team. But by the end of the season, the team had its own identify and you also had Amile, Marshall and Matt who had tenure.

No one on this roster had contributed in a significant way other than Grayson. He has little margin for error as a leader. I suspect the coaches are on the, and I dont really know how you manage that dynamic, but it is noteworthy.

Its hard to predict from a keyboard who has real leadership ability, and how to achieve it. Grayson just may not be that kind of guy in the locker room, but more of a leader with his play and work ethic. Coach K evidently has confidence in him by naming him as a captain, so there are some expectations there.

Somebody else may step up and be more mature than any of us outsiders know. Over at UNC, Joel Berry has been discussed as a team leader since the day he stepped foot on campus. Somebody like Trent could be that kind of kid too. We'll see who steps up, somebody always does.

[Devil549]

8 man rotation will probably mean we are using 2 guards at PG basically J-Gold is playing significant minutes which means consistent ball press on opponents PG. I was impressed by Duval's defense on the ball IMO J-Gold can also pressure the ball.

[ChillinDuke]

Most have brought this up in varying degrees, but I'd like to emphasize something.

Grayson played better than sophomore year. His pace and focus seemed like he was operating on a different plane than we've seen from him. He didn't rush anything, knew exactly what move he wanted, executed to perfection, got others involved, looked totally "in" to others' successes on the team.

He looked like a mature and seasoned vet out there. Let's hope that continues when the competition gets tougher.

- Chillin

[slower]

It also looks like Grayson and Bagley work well together. I think they'll have fantastic chemistry.

[accfanfrom1970]

Over at UNC, Joel Berry has been discussed as a team leader since the day he stepped foot on campus. Somebody like Trent could be that kind of kid too. We'll see who steps up, somebody always does.[/QUOTE]

True leaders always show their competitive side, by punching doors after losing at video games.

[pfrduke]

True leaders always show their competitive side, by punching doors after losing at video games.

Let he who is without player that has overreacted to frustration cast that particular stone.

[accfanfrom1970]

Let he who is without player that has overreacted to frustration cast that particular stone.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

[uh_no]

finanly got around to watching after being unavailable friday night. the first few minutes had me going "uh oh," but the team got over its early jitters and rattled off a really complete game. really couldn't ask for much more in a game like this. no injuries. high effort.

[whereinthehellami]

I thought Duval looked pretty good for this time of year. 5 assists to 1 TO, I'll take it. His layup off of a hesitation move from 10 feet out was pretty sweet. His shot definitely needs work but I think he will be able to get a couple of layups a game in one-on-one match-ups. I see a lot of easy layups and/or dunks off of that penetration. He was close on multiple on-ball denials, with his size and reach.

Bolden gets boxed out/taken out of plays way too easy, especially against what was undersized competition. DeLaurier is the exact opposite, constantly in motion and an absolute beast to block out/take out of the play. DeLaurier brings a ton of energy to the table compared to Bolden and i think that is very important in the 6th man role.

NWMS hoisted a ton of 3 after moving the ball around really well. Duke was late on a number of them and the close outs seemed kind of slow but it is hard to account for the length of those close outs and how much they bother the shooter. Duke is really long in addition to being tall. NWMS shot just 36% from 3 for the game. That %needs to be lower but the 3 is what NWMS does. A preview for teams like VT.

[Billy Dat]

My impression from CTC and this game is that Grayson, Trent, Bagley and Carter ALL need touches for this team to be the best possible version if itself. Thus, the importance of Duvall continues to clarify. Of course, he needs touches, too, but he'll have the ball a lot and will likely be baited to drive into the teeth of the defense due to his poor shooting. As such, hopefully he gets better at drawing the D on his drives and makes good decisions about pulling up, kicking out or pocket-passing/alley-ooping. I also love that K is using Bagley on the perimeter as a post-feeder and driving/shooting threat. With all our size, we need to nail big-to-big high/low actions, which are also a great way to get Carter touches in the post where he seems gifted. I'd also like to see us run some high screen and roll with Bagley as the ball handler as he will be very tough to contain going right to left and finishing with that left hand.

Grayson looks like the senior All-American offensive superstar we all want him to be. As Gerald Henderson said on the broadcast, Grayson isn't the best NBA prospect on the team, but he's the best player on the team. If he fulfills that description, and we get a guy or two challenging him for that title (I think about Jason and Shane as co-players of the year in 2001), we will be really really tough.

I echo the sentiments about the activity of our defense. Deslaurier is going to be a fixture on the "glue guy" lists. The increased size is palpable because even though we weren't good position-ally on defense, as others have pointed out, we have the size and speed to recover and challenge shots. I liked seeing several long arms challenging most everything at the rim, and fighting for rebounds.

Back to defense, it was telling that K chose to highlight Trevon in the presser for his defense on Pitts. "Trevon (Duval) had a terrific game. He made some really simple, great passes and then guarding their best player, who is good, and he did a good job on him."

Simple passes and dogged defense...maybe not what we imagined for Trevon Duval who is something of a human highlight reel but likely what this team most needs. Getting out an running would be great, too.

Lots to be excited about.

[alteran]

Finally watched the replay. Just can't wait for this season to be underway.

[flyingdutchdevil]

My impression from CTC and this game is that Grayson, Trent, Bagley and Carter ALL need touches for this team to be the best possible version if itself. Thus, the importance of Duvall continues to clarify. Of course, he needs touches, too, but he'll have the ball a lot and will likely be baited to drive into the teeth of the defense due to his poor shooting. As such, hopefully he gets better at drawing the D on his drives and makes good decisions about pulling up, kicking out or pocket-passing/alley-ooping. I also love that K is using Bagley on the perimeter as a post-feeder and driving/shooting threat. With all our size, we need to nail big-to-big high/low actions, which are also a great way to get Carter touches in the post where he seems gifted. I'd also like to see us run some high screen and roll with Bagley as the ball handler as he will be very tough to contain going right to left and finishing with that left hand.

Grayson looks like the senior All-American offensive superstar we all want him to be. As Gerald Henderson said on the broadcast, Grayson isn't the best NBA prospect on the team, but he's the best player on the team. If he fulfills that description, and we get a guy or two challenging him for that title (I think about Jason and Shane as co-players of the year in 2001), we will be really really tough.

I echo the sentiments about the activity of our defense. Deslaurier is going to be a fixture on the "glue guy" lists. The increased size is palpable because even though we weren't good position-ally on defense, as others have pointed out, we have the size and speed to recover and challenge shots. I liked seeing several long arms challenging most everything at the rim, and fighting for rebounds.

Back to defense, it was telling that K chose to highlight Trevon in the presser for his defense on Pitts. "Trevon (Duval) had a terrific game. He made some really simple, great passes and then guarding their best player, who is good, and he did a good job on him."

Simple passes and dogged defense...maybe not what we imagined for Trevon Duval who is something of a human highlight reel but likely what this team most needs. Getting out an running would be great, too.

Lots to be excited about.

Yes! I thought Duval had a great game too. And I have no problem with him shooting 3s if he's wide open. But defense, distribution, and transition. That should be his game.