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devilnfla
10-24-2017, 06:33 PM
I don't feel the same at all about either the first scrimmage or the CTC. In the first scrimmage, he was carrying the blue squad which had literally no other legit scoring threats

You don't consider Carter or Trent a scoring threat? What about Alex....he hit a few shots including the game winner.

Just read your post again. If you're talking about a scrimmage prior to CTC, I have no idea who his teammates were.

jv001
10-24-2017, 07:01 PM
I would say “neither.” His outside shot is the main weakness in his game. I chose Rose for a reason: the physical characteristics are very similar. As is the relatively poor outside shot. And the tendency to turn it over a bit.

Thanks CDu. I have not seen the team play. My wife and I have been pretty much consumed with helping our son who has seen his cancer return for the 2nd time in 2017, so I have not been able to watch the Duke team play. Looking forward to the season beginning. GoDuke!

duketaylor
10-24-2017, 07:13 PM
I'm confused. Wasn't DeLaurier the guy who was going to transfer because Duke kept recruiting over him?

Now, after 85 mop-up minutes as a freshman and an intra-squad game, he's going to be going early to the NBA?

Curious.

Jim, I'm with you here. I've seen nothing yet from him in quality time minutes to go crazy about anything. Leaving early? Needs to get on the court and perform first.

cato
10-24-2017, 07:16 PM
I'm confused.

That is my natural state these days.

MartyClark
10-24-2017, 07:21 PM
Thanks CDu. I have not seen the team play. My wife and I have been pretty much consumed with helping our son who has seen his cancer return for the 2nd time in 2017, so I have not been able to watch the Duke team play. Looking forward to the season beginning. GoDuke!

Hey JV001-

I don't know you but have enjoyed your posts. I am very sorry to hear about your son and wish you, your wife, and your son the best. Duke basketball is a great diversion but it sounds like you are dealing with some gritty, real life issues. God bless you guys. I hope and pray for the best for your son.

MChambers
10-24-2017, 07:45 PM
That's preposterous . . . how can anyone make conclusions like that after watching a 18 year old kid play 20 minutes of basketball? I mean, sure, if he plays all season like he did the other night, then it's a valid observation, but 20 minutes? Of practice basketball? Come on.

That’s what scouts do. Read the first chapter of Undoing Project by Michael Lewis (which is available online) and you’ll see.

MChambers
10-24-2017, 07:47 PM
I'm confused. Wasn't DeLaurier the guy who was going to transfer because Duke kept recruiting over him?

Now, after 85 mop-up minutes as a freshman and an intra-squad game, he's going to be going early to the NBA?

Curious.

People here were worried about Zoubek going pro early after his first intra-squad game. So this sentiment is not unusual.

kAzE
10-24-2017, 08:42 PM
People here were worried about Zoubek going pro early after his first intra-squad game. So this sentiment is not unusual.

With all due respect to Big Z, that might be the only time Javin DeLaurier ever gets compared to Brian Zoubek :D

CDu
10-24-2017, 08:49 PM
You don't consider Carter or Trent a scoring threat? What about Alex...he hit a few shots including the game winner.

Just read your post again. If you're talking about a scrimmage prior to CTC, I have no idea who his teammates were.

I was talking about the first scrimmage. Trent and Carter were on the white team for that scrimmage. The blue team that day had Duval, O’Connell, White, Vrankovic, Bolden, and Tucker. Switch Duval with Goldwire and the white team might have pitched a shutout.

Duke95
10-24-2017, 08:49 PM
Also, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I'm starting to get the feeling Javin DeLaurier is not going to be around here for 4 years. He's a future pro, no question about it.

Enjoy him while you can, folks.

I have the same feeling. He's an athlete, no question about it. I expect he'll play a bigger role this year than many think.

jv001
10-25-2017, 05:34 AM
Hey JV001-

I don't know you but have enjoyed your posts. I am very sorry to hear about your son and wish you, your wife, and your son the best. Duke basketball is a great diversion but it sounds like you are dealing with some gritty, real life issues. God bless you guys. I hope and pray for the best for your son.

Thanks for the prayers as we need them. He goes to Chapel Hill Hospital today to meet with new cancer doctors. His treatments at Baptist Hospital didn't get rid of this vicious disease. He may get a 2nd opinion from Duke Hospital as well. Once again thank you for your prayers. God bless and GoDuke!

budwom
10-25-2017, 08:12 AM
I have the same feeling. He's an athlete, no question about it. I expect he'll play a bigger role this year than many think.

The crucial question being, is Coach K one of those people?

UrinalCake
10-25-2017, 08:24 AM
I'm confused. Wasn't DeLaurier the guy who was going to transfer because Duke kept recruiting over him?

Now, after 85 mop-up minutes as a freshman and an intra-squad game, he's going to be going early to the NBA?

1. The reason fans were so worried about Javin transferring is that we saw that he had a lot of potential yet wasn't getting any playing time. We saw what happened with Semi and Gbinije going from bench fodder at Duke to potential first round draft picks so it was a reasonable concern.

2. After Frank left, I don't rule out anybody leaving. The NBA drafts on potential, so all Javin has to do is show some flashes of athleticism and shoot a reasonable percentage and he'll be on some draft boards.

flyingdutchdevil
10-25-2017, 08:47 AM
1. The reason fans were so worried about Javin transferring is that we saw that he had a lot of potential yet wasn't getting any playing time. We saw what happened with Semi and Gbinije going from bench fodder at Duke to potential first round draft picks so it was a reasonable concern.

2. After Frank left, I don't rule out anybody leaving. The NBA drafts on potential, so all Javin has to do is show some flashes of athleticism and shoot a reasonable percentage and he'll be on some draft boards.

Yup. Frank is our equivalent of Daniel Orton, the benchwarmer on Kentucky who only played 500 min as a freshman before leaving Kentucky. Frank played 900 and did start a lot of games, but his starting was more about Grayson being injured/not being himself.

Just like Daniel Orton leaving Kentucky signaled to me that Kentucky is an NBA factory, Frank Jackson leaving Duke signaled to me that tons of Duke recruits have their eyes set on the NBA moreso than developing at Duke.

uh_no
10-25-2017, 08:59 AM
Yup. Frank is our equivalent of Daniel Orton, the benchwarmer on Kentucky who only played 500 min as a freshman before leaving Kentucky. Frank played 900 and did start a lot of games, but his starting was more about Grayson being injured/not being himself.

Just like Daniel Orton leaving Kentucky signaled to me that Kentucky is an NBA factory, Frank Jackson leaving Duke signaled to me that tons of Duke recruits have their eyes set on the NBA moreso than developing at Duke.

it's not really a fair comparison. All information hinted that Frank wanted to stay at duke, but his father forced him to transfer.

I feel bad for Frank more than anything. I can't imagine having to choose between family and my own happiness like that.

flyingdutchdevil
10-25-2017, 09:11 AM
it's not really a fair comparison. All information hinted that Frank wanted to stay at duke, but his father forced him to transfer.

I feel bad for Frank more than anything. I can't imagine having to choose between family and my own happiness like that.

How true is this? Did Frank's dad publicly say this or is this through the grapevine? Also, how do you know that Orton's family didn't push him to declare either?

pfrduke
10-25-2017, 09:13 AM
it's not really a fair comparison. All information hinted that Frank wanted to stay at duke, but his father forced him to transfer.

I feel bad for Frank more than anything. I can't imagine having to choose between family and my own happiness like that.

Are you confusing Jackson for Thornton?

BandAlum83
10-25-2017, 09:21 AM
Are you confusing Jackson for Thornton?

I know the NCAA has become big business, but I didn't realize going to the NBA was now as simple as getting approval and processing a transfer request. That must make it a lot easier for HR when you don't have to worry about on-boarding.

CDu
10-25-2017, 09:35 AM
DeLaurier reminds me a bit of Tyrus Thomas: a freak athlete at 6'9"/6'10", with the potential for game-changing defensive presence. But also seems VERY raw on both ends of the floor.

Thomas had a monster stretch run to the Final Four, and parlayed that into a high lottery pick. Of course, Thomas flamed out in the NBA due to that lack of polish. I don't expect the same emergence for DeLaurier this year (due to a limit on available minutes). But physically, he has that type of profile. So anything can happen. Especially if the team makes a deep tourney run as we all hope will happen.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet heavily on him being back next year though.

uh_no
10-25-2017, 09:43 AM
Are you confusing Jackson for Thornton?

yes.

oops :)

sagegrouse
10-25-2017, 10:39 AM
it's not really a fair comparison. All information hinted that Frank wanted to stay at duke, but his father forced him to transfer.

I feel bad for Frank more than anything. I can't imagine having to choose between family and my own happiness like that.

Derryck or Frank. Derryck transfered -- Frank was drafted

flyingdutchdevil
10-25-2017, 10:42 AM
DeLaurier reminds me a bit of Tyrus Thomas: a freak athlete at 6'9"/6'10", with the potential for game-changing defensive presence. But also seems VERY raw on both ends of the floor.

Thomas had a monster stretch run to the Final Four, and parlayed that into a high lottery pick. Of course, Thomas flamed out in the NBA due to that lack of polish. I don't expect the same emergence for DeLaurier this year (due to a limit on available minutes). But physically, he has that type of profile. So anything can happen. Especially if the team makes a deep tourney run as we all hope will happen.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet heavily on him being back next year though.

I'm not sure anyone is expecting Javin to jump ship this year. But next year? When he will undoubtedly be a starter and captain (and maybe sole captain)? Now that is much more likely.

I agree with you on the rawness. But if he can do some damage on the defensive side of the floor, Javin will play beaucoup minutes.

cato
10-25-2017, 10:44 AM
Thanks for the prayers as we need them. He goes to Chapel Hill Hospital today to meet with new cancer doctors. His treatments at Baptist Hospital didn't get rid of this vicious disease. He may get a 2nd opinion from Duke Hospital as well. Once again thank you for your prayers. God bless and GoDuke!

MartyClark said it very well, but please know that you, your son and your family are in my prayers as wells. I cannot even imagine what you all are going through.

Bay Area Duke Fan
10-25-2017, 10:47 AM
Derryck or Frank. Derryck transfered -- Frank was drafted

Tweedledee or Tweedledum? These guys don’t stay at Duke long enough to be remembered.

Kedsy
10-25-2017, 11:00 AM
The NBA drafts on potential, so all Javin has to do is show some flashes of athleticism and shoot a reasonable percentage and he'll be on some draft boards.

Maybe. "The NBA drafts on potential" is a lot like "Coach K doesn't have positions." There's truth in it but it's not really true.


DeLaurier reminds me a bit of Tyrus Thomas: a freak athlete at 6'9"/6'10", with the potential for game-changing defensive presence.

I agree there may be a resemblance, but is Javin really a freak in the Tyrus Thomas mold? I don't know, I believe he's a really good athlete but I don't think seen enough of him to say that yet.

What I do know is Javin only played 85 minutes total last season. Here's the list of Duke players who played fewer than 600 minutes and went to the NBA early:

LOW FRESHMAN MINUTES DUE TO A MAJOR INJURY
Elton Brand (top 3 recruit; 493 minutes as a freshman);
Kyrie Irving (top 3 recruit; 303 minutes as a freshman);
Harry Giles (top 3 recruit; 300 minutes as a freshman);

TRANSFERRED THEN PLAYED 1100+ MINUTES IN A SEASON FOR ANOTHER SCHOOL BEFORE GOING PRO
Elliot Williams (top 15 recruit; 563 minutes as a freshman);
Semi Ojeleye (top 35 recruit; 80 minutes as a freshman);

PLAYED THREE YEARS AT DUKE, DECLARED, AND WENT UNDRAFTED
Shavlik Randolph (top 15 recruit; 351 minutes as a freshman).


Of course, Marques Bolden only played 157 minutes as a freshman, but he could possibly be put into the "injured" category, and in any event came to Duke as the #11 recruit in the country with the expectation that he would go pro early (and we don't know for sure that he's going to accomplish that, anyway).

To me, the only legitimate analog here is Semi Ojeleye (#32 RSCI; 80 freshman minutes vs. Javin's #35 and 85). But Semi played almost 1200 minutes at SMU, shot 42+% from three-land on nearly 5 three-attempts per game, and was his conference POY, and still was only a 2nd round pick. And he's just as athletic (if not moreso) than Javin. There's almost no chance Javin plays that many minutes, or shows anywhere near that much shooting skill, and if he's only going to go in the 2nd round anyway (like Semi), he might not be interested.

I've been wrong before, but I think the chances of Javin leaving for the NBA after the 2017-18 season are negligible.

rsvman
10-25-2017, 11:38 AM
Hey JV001-

I don't know you but have enjoyed your posts. I am very sorry to hear about your son and wish you, your wife, and your son the best. Duke basketball is a great diversion but it sounds like you are dealing with some gritty, real life issues. God bless you guys. I hope and pray for the best for your son.

+1. Thoughts and prayers for your son and your family.

kAzE
10-25-2017, 03:01 PM
To me, the only legitimate analog here is Semi Ojeleye (#32 RSCI; 80 freshman minutes vs. Javin's #35 and 85). But Semi played almost 1200 minutes at SMU, shot 42+% from three-land on nearly 5 three-attempts per game, and was his conference POY, and still was only a 2nd round pick. And he's just as athletic (if not moreso) than Javin. There's almost no chance Javin plays that many minutes, or shows anywhere near that much shooting skill, and if he's only going to go in the 2nd round anyway (like Semi), he might not be interested.

I've been wrong before, but I think the chances of Javin leaving for the NBA after the 2017-18 season are negligible.

I guess I'm the one who started all this, and even I don't think he's leaving after this year. I do think he's gone after his junior year. But also, I'm not sure I agree with your assessment of Javin. Semi isn't really the best comparison. Javin is absolutely a more attractive NBA prospect than Semi in my opinion, and I think most NBA scouts would agree with that.

First off, he's 3 inches taller. His wingspan is 3 inches longer, and his standing reach is 4 inches taller. Size matters in the NBA.

They are both explosive athletes, but you have to give the edge to to Javin in terms of NBA potential. Big men of comparable skill are just more valuable. Would Ben Simmons be as good if he was 6'7" instead of 6'10"? Hell no. It's also rare to find big men with the same explosive athleticism as smaller players, and I would say Javin and Semi are about equal in that respect. Semi obviously has some skills that Javin doesn't currently possess, but Javin is still young and raw. He has time to develop more skills.

Furthermore, it doesn't seem like RSCI would be a great measure of NBA potential. Smaller players are able to succeed in high school basketball much more easily than at the NBA level. That's why I think you often see highly rated (RSCI) point guards stay in school or get drafted much later than they were originally projected.

If Javin can develop an outside shot or some level of ball handling, I think his stock skyrockets easily into the first round, but even as a raw defensive presence with his upside, I could see him go late first or early 2nd if he went pro after THIS year. I still think he stays 1 more year, but in any case, he clearly has a lot of potential.

English
10-25-2017, 03:09 PM
I guess I'm the one who started all this, and even I don't think he's leaving after this year. I do think he's gone after his junior year. But also, I'm not sure I agree with your assessment of Javin. Semi isn't really the best comparison. Javin is absolutely a more attractive NBA prospect than Semi in my opinion, and I think most NBA scouts would agree with that.

First off, he's 3 inches taller. His wingspan is 3 inches longer, and his standing reach is 4 inches taller. Size matters in the NBA.

They are both explosive athletes, but you have to give the edge to to Javin in terms of NBA potential. Big men of comparable skill are just more valuable. Would Ben Simmons be as good if he was 6'7" instead of 6'10"? Hell no. It's also rare to find big men with the same explosive athleticism as smaller players, and I would say Javin and Semi are about equal in that respect. Semi obviously has some skills that Javin doesn't currently possess, but Javin is still young and raw. He has time to develop more skills.

Furthermore, it doesn't seem like RSCI would be a great measure of NBA potential. Smaller players are able to succeed in high school basketball much more easily than at the NBA level. That's why I think you often see highly rated (RSCI) point guards stay in school or get drafted much later than they were originally projected.

If Javin can develop an outside shot or some level of ball handling, I think his stock skyrockets easily into the first round, but even as a raw defensive presence with his upside, I could see him go late first or early 2nd if he went pro after THIS year. I still think he stays 1 more year, but in any case, he clearly has a lot of potential.

Miles Plumlee comes to mind, for some reason.

BD80
10-25-2017, 03:41 PM
... Semi obviously has some skills that Javin doesn't currently possess, but Javin is still young and raw. He has time to develop more skills.

...

If Javin can develop an outside shot or some level of ball handling,...

Rarely happens. Skills can certainly improve, but rarely grow from sub-standard at a college level to proficient at the pro level. Frankly, an athlete more often grows into pro height ...

Billy Dat
10-25-2017, 04:02 PM
Rarely happens. Skills can certainly improve, but rarely grow from sub-standard at a college level to proficient at the pro level. Frankly, an athlete more often grows into pro height ...

Is that true? There are so many guys who have become 40% 3 point marksmen in the NBA who didn't show that potential in college. Lance Thomas comes to mind, a guy who didn't attempt a 3 in college and was a sub 60% FT shooter until his senior year when he bumped it up to over 70%. He didn't shoot any 3s for the first few years of his pro career and now it's a big part of his game.

The latest headline grabber in this area is former Arizona Wildcat and current Orlando Magic player Aaron Gordon (whose hot start may be an anomaly)
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gordoaa01.html

But I think of Jared Dudley, Kawhi Leonard, etc. A great shooting coach, and hard work, can turn a poor shooter into a solid one.

ElSid
10-25-2017, 04:24 PM
Is that true? There are so many guys who have become 40% 3 point marksmen in the NBA who didn't show that potential in college. Lance Thomas comes to mind, a guy who didn't attempt a 3 in college and was a sub 60% FT shooter until his senior year when he bumped it up to over 70%. He didn't shoot any 3s for the first few years of his pro career and now it's a big part of his game.

The latest headline grabber in this area is former Arizona Wildcat and current Orlando Magic player Aaron Gordon (whose hot start may be an anomaly)
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gordoaa01.html

But I think of Jared Dudley, Kawhi Leonard, etc. A great shooting coach, and hard work, can turn a poor shooter into a solid one.

Also Brook Lopez. Shot what, 10 3 pointers his whole career until last season when he shot 262 and made almost 35% of them. Definitely a learnable skill, and increasingly a requirement for NBA big men.

Kedsy
10-25-2017, 04:26 PM
I guess I'm the one who started all this, and even I don't think he's leaving after this year. I do think he's gone after his junior year. But also, I'm not sure I agree with your assessment of Javin. Semi isn't really the best comparison. Javin is absolutely a more attractive NBA prospect than Semi in my opinion, and I think most NBA scouts would agree with that.

First off, he's 3 inches taller. His wingspan is 3 inches longer, and his standing reach is 4 inches taller. Size matters in the NBA.

They are both explosive athletes, but you have to give the edge to to Javin in terms of NBA potential. Big men of comparable skill are just more valuable. Would Ben Simmons be as good if he was 6'7" instead of 6'10"? Hell no. It's also rare to find big men with the same explosive athleticism as smaller players, and I would say Javin and Semi are about equal in that respect. Semi obviously has some skills that Javin doesn't currently possess, but Javin is still young and raw. He has time to develop more skills.

Furthermore, it doesn't seem like RSCI would be a great measure of NBA potential. Smaller players are able to succeed in high school basketball much more easily than at the NBA level. That's why I think you often see highly rated (RSCI) point guards stay in school or get drafted much later than they were originally projected.

If Javin can develop an outside shot or some level of ball handling, I think his stock skyrockets easily into the first round, but even as a raw defensive presence with his upside, I could see him go late first or early 2nd if he went pro after THIS year. I still think he stays 1 more year, but in any case, he clearly has a lot of potential.

Well, they play different positions. Semi is no smaller for a SF than Javin is for a PF.

Anyway, while I'm excited for Javin's future career at Duke, unless he shows major improvement this season in a lot of areas I think you're wrong about his NBA prospects. Really athletic but not freak athletes who are average sized for their position and have few if any offensive skills don't get drafted in the first or even early in the second round.

Furniture
10-25-2017, 09:18 PM
http://dukereport.com/audio-video/watch-coach-k-on-sportscenter-its-a-very-different-team-dukeofhoops/amp/: Sportscenter:-/
4 freshmen start this Friday!

Furniture
10-25-2017, 09:26 PM
https://www.pscp.tv/w/1OdKrAlzLnwxX

interesting. Worth a listen.