Bawlers are at it again

[budwom]

TO be fair, he probably should have, and I'm assuming did see a sports psychiatrist...it's not an uncommon thing...especially when trying to break habits.

and I believe he did, as he should have.

[cato]

I don’t have a string opinion on appropriate punishment levels, but consideration of a long suspension by a state university is refreshing. If these players were enrolled at Chapel Hill and arrived back from China; they’d have been locally exonerated and taken the court against Bucknell.

UCLA is staking a claim as the preeminent University in the UC system, and one of the top institutions in the world. Perhaps they understand that college ball is just a sideshow and that other considerations than wins and losses need to guide the university.

UNC is apparently content to be run by the Ram’s Club.

[WillJ]

I'm strongly on the side of lenience. We're too punitive, both in the public media and, more importantly, in our criminal justice system, of relatively minor offenses. 2-5 games seems about right to me.
By way of background, I was at Cameron when we showered Lorenzo Charles with pizza box tops after he had a strong-arm robbery of a pizza deliverer, one of the events that led to Terry Sanford's avuncular letter. I'm not proud of myself and I thought Valvano handled the situation very well.

[budwom]

^I could argue that the kids will be done more of a favor if they are given a longer suspension. If they just get a slap on the wrist, will they have learned anything from this? (other than that they can get away with crap being hoopsters)
No, I don't want to see a horrible punishment, but so what if they lose half a season. They have years to pull together their hoop lives.
I'd like to see them do some meaningful public service work to work their way back onto the team.

[ChillinDuke]

I was also watching Jay and Seth go at it over the potential punishment for the UCLA kids. I began wonder if their suggestions (Jay - a couple of games; Seth - transfer because your name is Mudd forevermore at UCLA) is what they really think or if they are just stating the extreme ends of the spectrum for the sake of better ("more argumentative") TV?

Jay's take is seems laughably short and Seth's take seems ridiculously punitive. It really seems like it was a First Take-like orchestrated scenario because both of them saying "Well, they should be suspended for about 10 games" doesn't make for good TV. At least in the mind of ESPN producers.

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.

None of this stuff is real anymore. Thoughtful, rational, reasonable reporting is not as interesting nor as profitable.

- Chillin

[CameronBornAndBred]

^I could argue that the kids will be done more of a favor if they are given a longer suspension. If they just get a slap on the wrist, will they have learned anything from this? (other than that they can get away with crap being hoopsters)
No, I don't want to see a horrible punishment, but so what if they lose half a season. They have years to pull together their hoop lives.
I'd like to see them do some meaningful public service work to work their way back onto the team.

The chances of any of the three having meaningful post college pro careers is slim. They would be far better served by being booted off the team for the season, and focusing on their academics. It's a punishment as well as an opportunity for them.

[swood1000]

The suspension being talked about is athletic suspension. Is academic suspension on the table? If so that would render them athletically ineligible for the duration of the suspension.

[Duke95]

I think a 5-8 game suspension and community service suffices in this matter.

[cato]

The suspension being talked about is athletic suspension. Is academic suspension on the table? If so that would render them athletically ineligible for the duration of the suspension.

I believe that they will be subject to the internal UCLA disciplinary system, which is confidential. So unless the players talk about it, and I don’t know why they would, we aren’t going to hear about that part.

[swood1000]

I believe that they will be subject to the internal UCLA disciplinary system, which is confidential. So unless the players talk about it, and I don’t know why they would, we aren’t going to hear about that part.
We'll hear about it if they are put on academic suspension, though it won't be a formal announcement.

[Olympic Fan]

Just to put this in basketball perspective ... the three suspended players are hardly key players for the Bruins.

UCLA signed six players last season -- two five stars, three four-stars and a three star.

The two five stars -- Jalen Hands and Kris Wilkes -- are in the starting lineup.

Cody Riley and Jalen Hill are four stars who would be playing a significant backup role if they were eligible. LiAngelo Ball is a three star who probably would not be seeing more than token action.

Of course, their skill level shouldn't have any influence on their punishment ...

[budwom]

Just to put this in basketball perspective ... the three suspended players are hardly key players for the Bruins.

UCLA signed six players last season -- two five stars, three four-stars and a three star.

The two five stars -- Jalen Hands and Kris Wilkes -- are in the starting lineup.

Cody Riley and Jalen Hill are four stars who would be playing a significant backup role if they were eligible. LiAngelo Ball is a three star who probably would not be seeing more than token action.

Of course, their skill level shouldn't have any influence on their punishment ...

Which is why every night I chuckle when Lester Holt on NBC News refers to the three as "college basketball stars."

[jacone21]

We'll hear about it if they are put on academic suspension, though it won't be a formal announcement.

How about if they're put on double secret probation?

[swood1000]

How about if they're put on double secret probation?
That would be too great a calamity to contemplate. (Hasn't that been banned by international agreement?)

[BD80]

I wonder if LaVar Ball's initial public reaction: "it's no big thing," will come back to haunt the players.

I could easily see the big wig boosters, who are in my general demographic (but sadly not income bracket), thinking that something MUST big done to ensure that the athletes, as well as all other UCLA athletes, understand that, yes, this WAS a big deal.

[sagegrouse]

Random quotes from the ESPN article today:


UCLA's trip to China was viewed as more than just an athletic program road trip; it was a goodwill journey for the entire university. UCLA chancellor Gene Block and his wife, Carol, UCLA vice provost Cindy Fan, UCLA engagement director Stephen Tan and UCLA professor Ren Sun all traveled with team to Hangzhou and Shanghai.

"We have heard and appreciate everyone's views," Block wrote in a statement after the players left China. "I want to be clear that we take seriously any violations of the law. We remain one of the world's top academic institutions in large part because of our values and standards, which we work hard to infuse throughout our campus community.

A "goodwill journey for the entire university." Hmmm... sounds like the wrong time for a player to be picked up by the police.


Sources told ESPN that university officials are debating whether to suspend LiAngelo Ball, Cody Riley and Jalen Hill anywhere from half of the season up to the full season. Multiple major donors have called the school with their thoughts on the situation, according to sources.

Interesting what the donor take will be. If they are grumpy old men like Sage Grouse, they won't be very forgiving to players who embarrassed the University.


At a news conference on Wednesday, UCLA athletic director Dan Guerrero confirmed an ESPN report that the players shoplifted from three stores, including Louis Vuitton, inside of a high-end shopping center next to the team's hotel in Hangzhou. The players were questioned last week at the team's hotel in Hangzhou, where the No. 23 Bruins had been staying before leaving for Shanghai to face Georgia Tech on Friday. They were released on bail for a total of about $2,200 early on the morning of Nov. 8 and had been staying at a lakeside hotel in Hangzhou since then.
This is a crime spree, not an incident.


Later Wednesday, following the Bruins' 106-101 home win over Central Arkansas, head coach Steve Alford said: "All the information that we know was given, so now it's just school protocol -- what goes on with student conduct. Once that's cleared, we'll sit as an administration and coaches and move from there."Hmmm... is Alford just pretending or will he actually be part of the decision process?

[BigZ]

Lonzo is just a better version of Kendall Marshall

[BD80]

... A "goodwill journey for the entire university." Hmmm... sounds like the wrong time for a player to be picked up by the police. ...

I wonder if LaVar Ball was an invited guest of the University

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Lonzo is just a better version of Kendall Marshall

Someone listened to Bomani today.

[moonpie23]

Someone listened to Bomani today.

why?

[budwom]

Generally when you have hoopster misbehavior, it's the head coach who determines the penalty, which is why kids often get a slap on the wrist, if that (e.g. they can't choose the restaurant for the next team meal).
In this case I strongly suspect that the UCLA administration will be ensuring that the penalty is appropriate....but maybe I'm deluding myself, we'll see.

[sagegrouse]

Generally when you have hoopster misbehavior, it's the head coach who determines the penalty, which is why kids often get a slap on the wrist, if that (e.g. they can't choose the restaurant for the next team meal).
In this case I strongly suspect that the UCLA administration will be ensuring that the penalty is appropriate...but maybe I'm deluding myself, we'll see.

No, the UCLA head shed has to make the decision. The police were involved; President Xi Jinpeng was involved; heck, the POTUS was involved. This trip and basketball game was a UCLA goodwill mission with all the Bruin pooh-bahs in attendance.

Moreover, it was a crime. Suppose an athlete committed a robbery in broad daylight in Westwood. It is an administration matter, not a matter for the coach and AD, as well as a criminal case involving the LAPD.

[Duke95]

No, the UCLA head shed has to make the decision. The police were involved; President Xi Jinpeng was involved; heck, the POTUS was involved. This trip and basketball game was a UCLA goodwill mission with all the Bruin pooh-bahs in attendance.

Moreover, it was a crime. Suppose an athlete committed a robbery in broad daylight in Westwood. It is an administration matter, not a matter for the coach and AD, as well as a criminal case involving the LAPD.

If the LAPD dropped the case, then it would be solely an administrative matter...which is now what this is, because China has apparently dropped it. Get over the whole "crime spree" thing. It was a terrible decision on their part, and it was very embarrassing for UCLA. But at this point, it's not a crime anymore, as China is not pursuing any such claims. It's solely an administrative matter.

[DukieInKansas]

If the LAPD dropped the case, then it would be solely an administrative matter...which is now what this is, because China has apparently dropped it. Get over the whole "crime spree" thing. It was a terrible decision on their part, and it was very embarrassing for UCLA. But at this point, it's not a crime anymore, as China is not pursuing any such claims. It's solely an administrative matter.

What they did is a crime. I don't think that changes when the authorities opt not to press charges. If they had stolen the items and not been caught, they would have still broken the law.

[Duke95]

What they did is a crime. I don't think that changes when the authorities opt not to press charges. If they had stolen the items and not been caught, they would have still broken the law.

You can keep saying "crime" as long as you want, and it may have been technically a crime, but given that no charges were pressed, it is now solely an administrative matter for UCLA. That's all I'm saying here.

[PackMan97]

What they did is a crime. I don't think that changes when the authorities opt not to press charges. If they had stolen the items and not been caught, they would have still broken the law.

Punishment is not what makes a crime. Unfortunately those who commit crimes seldom change without punishment. Maybe they get better at hiding their actions, or pick their moments better, but seldom do they go on the straight and narrow.

You could be the biggest cheaters in the history of the NCAA and even though you escape punishment by tossing your integrity and honor out the window, it still doesn't change the fact you are the biggest cheaters in the history of the NCAA.

[DukieInKansas]

You can keep saying "crime" as long as you want, and it may have been technically a crime, but given that no charges were pressed, it is now solely an administrative matter for UCLA. That's all I'm saying here.

Yes, it is up to the UCLA administration to determine any punishment at this time. I quess we will have to disagree on how to describe what happened. According to Webster's Dictionary, the definition of a criime is "an illegal act for which someone can be punished by the government". The fact that they weren't punished by a government doesn't mean it wasn't a crime. And, it wasn't a mistake - at their age, they know that taking something from a store without paying for it is against the law.

I just hope it is a huge wake up call to all three. They need to learn from this and lead good, honest, productive lives from here on.

[cato]

You can keep saying "crime" as long as you want, and it may have been technically a crime, but given that no charges were pressed, it is now solely an administrative matter for UCLA. That's all I'm saying here.

What a curious comment. Here is Ball’s quote, from the NYT article on their suspension:


Ball, the highest-profile player involved, said: “I’d like to start off by saying sorry for stealing from the stores in China. I’m a young man, but it’s not an excuse for making a really stupid decision.”

You have to work hard to define stealing as something other than a crime.

[sagegrouse]

You can keep saying "crime" as long as you want, and it may have been technically a crime, but given that no charges were pressed, it is now solely an administrative matter for UCLA. That's all I'm saying here.

Weren't those kids told to stay out of China? Charges could still be re-filed if they show up.

[OldPhiKap]

Whether they were charged or not does not change the fact that shoplifting is a crime.

[swood1000]

You can keep saying "crime" as long as you want, and it may have been technically a crime, but given that no charges were pressed, it is now solely an administrative matter for UCLA. That's all I'm saying here.

Right, like when one student steals $2000 from another student the administration's actions are not limited by whether or not formal charges were filed with the police.

[AtlDuke72]

If the LAPD dropped the case, then it would be solely an administrative matter...which is now what this is, because China has apparently dropped it. Get over the whole "crime spree" thing. It was a terrible decision on their part, and it was very embarrassing for UCLA. But at this point, it's not a crime anymore, as China is not pursuing any such claims. It's solely an administrative matter.

I figured it out. You are not anybody’s uncle- you are Lavar Ball.

[dudog84]

I figured it out. You are not anybody’s uncle- you are Lavar Ball.

Now, now, you don't have to be insulting. :)

[duke4ever19]

Oh LaVar . . .


http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21452594/lavar-ball-downplays-us-president-donald-trump-role-liangelo-ball-release-china

Money quotes: "Who?" Ball told ESPN when asked about Trump's involvement in the matter. "What was he over there for? Don't tell me nothing. Everybody wants to make it seem like he helped me out."

"As long as my boy's back here, I'm fine," Ball told ESPN. "I'm happy with how things were handled. A lot of people like to say a lot of things that they thought happened over there. Like I told him, 'They try to make a big deal out of nothing sometimes.' I'm from L.A. I've seen a lot worse things happen than a guy taking some glasses. My son has built up enough character that one bad decision doesn't define him. Now if you can go back and say when he was 12 years old he was shoplifting and stealing cars and going wild, then that's a different thing.

"Everybody gets stuck on the negativity of some things and they get stuck on them too long. That's not me. I handle what's going on and then we go from there."

[dudog84]

Oh LaVar . . .


http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21452594/lavar-ball-downplays-us-president-donald-trump-role-liangelo-ball-release-china

Money quotes: "Who?" Ball told ESPN when asked about Trump's involvement in the matter. "What was he over there for? Don't tell me nothing. Everybody wants to make it seem like he helped me out."

"As long as my boy's back here, I'm fine," Ball told ESPN. "I'm happy with how things were handled. A lot of people like to say a lot of things that they thought happened over there. Like I told him, 'They try to make a big deal out of nothing sometimes.' I'm from L.A. I've seen a lot worse things happen than a guy taking some glasses. My son has built up enough character that one bad decision doesn't define him. Now if you can go back and say when he was 12 years old he was shoplifting and stealing cars and going wild, then that's a different thing.

"Everybody gets stuck on the negativity of some things and they get stuck on them too long. That's not me. I handle what's going on and then we go from there."

Unfortunately, he'll probably be our next president.

[OldPhiKap]

Oh LaVar . . .


http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21452594/lavar-ball-downplays-us-president-donald-trump-role-liangelo-ball-release-china

Money quotes: "Who?" Ball told ESPN when asked about Trump's involvement in the matter. "What was he over there for? Don't tell me nothing. Everybody wants to make it seem like he helped me out."

"As long as my boy's back here, I'm fine," Ball told ESPN. "I'm happy with how things were handled. A lot of people like to say a lot of things that they thought happened over there. Like I told him, 'They try to make a big deal out zof nothing sometimes.' I'm from L.A. I've seen a lot worse things happen than a guy taking some glasses. My son has built up enough character that one bad decision doesn't define him. Now if you can go back and say when he was 12 years old he was shoplifting and stealing cars and going wild, then that's a different thing.

"Everybody gets stuck on the negativity of some things and they get stuck on them too long. That's not me. I handle what's going on and then we go from there."

Would a meeting of Trump’s ego and Ball’s ego set off some sort of paranormal storm, kinda like in Gophostbusters?

[Green Wave Dukie]

Would a meeting of Trump’s ego and Ball’s ego set off some sort of paranormal storm, kinda like in Gophostbusters?

It would destroy the very fabric of the space time continuum

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Would a meeting of Trump’s ego and Ball’s ego set off some sort of paranormal storm, kinda like in Gophostbusters?

I think Don King and Vince McMahon would have a steel cage match to determine who got to promote it.

Not to get too PPB, but I am as anti-Trump as they get and I have to admit he seems to have done a really nice thing for the UCLA kids and Ball seems to be really showing what a hideous, tone deaf human being he is.

[jv001]

Unfortunately, he'll probably be our next president.

Could be worse, could be a remake of a terrible movie before this President came into office. :cool: GoDuke!

[MCFinARL]

I think Don King and Vince McMahon would have a steel cage match to determine who got to promote it.

Not to get too PPB, but I am as anti-Trump as they get and I have to admit he seems to have done a really nice thing for the UCLA kids and Ball seems to be really showing what a hideous, tone deaf human being he is.

Yes, all politics and opinions about our president aside, this was a new low for Lavar Ball.

[Duke95]

I figured it out. You are not anybody’s uncle- you are Lavar Ball.

Yep. You figured it out. Somebody get this guy a cookie.

[BD80]

Local morning talk show discussing the issue had interesting opinions. One said that the kids should be doing community service each minute the rest of the team is in practice or other team function that would have been occupying their time.

Another added: "and they should be forced to wear Big Baller shoes while they do their community service!"

[Pghdukie]

Trump tweets "Should have left them in jail". This gets uglier by the day !

[BigZ]

As a Lakers fan I ask can the Chinese take Lonzo ball ?

[WVDUKEFAN]

I agree. Should have left him in jail.

[plimnko]

lavar ball nauseates me

[PackMan97]

Trump tweets "Should have left them in jail". This gets uglier by the day !

You do something because it's the right thing to do, not because you want to recieve praise and thanks for doing it.

[dudog84]

Trump better be careful. He's going to lose the big bawler brand vote.

[dudog84]

You do something because it's the right thing to do, not because you want to recieve praise and thanks for doing it.

It probably wasn't the right thing to do. But I agree with your point.

[slower]

These two guys totally deserve each other.

[sagegrouse]

Trump better be careful. He's going to lose the big bawler brand vote.

Donald Trump vs. Lavar Ball. Wow! The irony is overwhelming. Could you have imagined a script where these guys would end up on stage together?

[BD80]

You do something because it's the right thing to do, not because you want to recieve praise and thanks for doing it.

It isn't the lack of a "thank you," it is the dismissive attitude.

Trump and Ball deserve each other, and unfortunately our society deserves both of them right now.

Some are saying Ball baited Trump into this latest rant, to continue to keep the Ball name in the public. But I see it as mutually "advantageous."

Ball is seen as taking on "the man," thus increasing his fame and cred. Trump is seen as fighting against those that disrespect authority - playing solidly to his demographic.

In my mind, we all lose.

[MartyClark]

It isn't the lack of a "thank you," it is the dismissive attitude.

Trump and Ball deserve each other, and unfortunately our society deserves both of them right now.

Some are saying Ball baited Trump into this latest rant, to continue to keep the Ball name in the public. But I see it as mutually "advantageous."

Ball is seen as taking on "the man," thus increasing his fame and cred. Trump is seen as fighting against those that disrespect authority - playing solidly to his demographic.

In my mind, we all lose.

Good thoughts.

I hope our society doesn't deserve either. I'd like to think that, as a society and a nation, we are above this, haven't asked for it and don't appreciate it.

[subzero02]

I think Trump and Ball should co-author a book..."Being an a** and Making a Name"

[OldPhiKap]

New tweet from our President:

“Shoplifting is a very big deal in China, as it should be (5-10 years in jail), but not to father LaVar. Should have gotten his son out during my next trip to China instead. China told them why they were released. Very ungrateful!”

So, yeah.

[Tripping William]

New tweet from our President:

“Shoplifting is a very big deal in China, as it should be (5-10 years in jail), but not to father LaVar. Should have gotten his son out during my next trip to China instead. China told them why they were released. Very ungrateful!”

So, yeah.

Pass the popcorn. This could last a while.

[DangerDevil]

Steve Kerr sounding reasonable again:

"Modern life," Kerr said. "Two people seeking attention and they're both getting it. I'm sure both guys are really happy. You know what would help? If all of you just stopped covering both of them. Is that possible? You could probably stop covering LaVar. I don't think you could stop covering the president. I don't think that would work. It would be nice for all of us if both of them would just be quiet. That'd be great."

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/11/19/donald-trump-lavar-ball-twitter-war-steve-kerr-opinion

[sagegrouse]

Steve Kerr sounding reasonable again:

"Modern life," Kerr said. "Two people seeking attention and they're both getting it. I'm sure both guys are really happy. You know what would help? If all of you just stopped covering both of them. Is that possible? You could probably stop covering LaVar. I don't think you could stop covering the president. I don't think that would work. It would be nice for all of us if both of them would just be quiet. That'd be great."

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/11/19/donald-trump-lavar-ball-twitter-war-steve-kerr-opinion

Steve Kerr, on matters of substance, deserves everyone's attention. While he was a high school student in Pacific Palisades, CA, his father, Malcolm Kerr, was killed by gunmen while serving as President of the American University in Beirut, Lebanon. Islamic Jihadists took credit, but no information was ever attained on the killers.

[evrim]

Steve Kerr sounding reasonable again:

"Modern life," Kerr said. "Two people seeking attention and they're both getting it. I'm sure both guys are really happy. You know what would help? If all of you just stopped covering both of them. Is that possible? You could probably stop covering LaVar. I don't think you could stop covering the president. I don't think that would work. It would be nice for all of us if both of them would just be quiet. That'd be great."

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/11/19/donald-trump-lavar-ball-twitter-war-steve-kerr-opinion

That is it, in a nutshell. Stop covering LaVar Ball (Kardashians etc). But a large percentage of the population is undereducated and even less informed.

[DangerDevil]

Steve Kerr, on matters of substance, deserves everyone's attention. While he was a high school student in Pacific Palisades, CA, his father, Malcolm Kerr, was killed by gunmen while serving as President of the American University in Beirut, Lebanon. Islamic Jihadists took credit, but no information was ever attained on the killers.

Interesting read on what helped shape Steve Kerr:

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/06/the-assassination-of-steve-kerrs-father-and-the-unlikely-story-of-a-champion

Sickening reminder of how ugly college sports fans can be:

"Shouts of "PLO, PLO . . . " and "Your father's history," and "Why don't you join the Marines and go back to Beirut?" by a small group of students caused Kerr to sit down for a few minutes to regain his composure.

The taunting took place about a half-hour before game time, with only about 1,000 of the eventual crowd of 12,784 at Arizona State's University Activity Center.

Asked about the incident Tuesday after practice, Kerr said: "It was amazing, and, I think, pretty disgusting. It's hard to believe that people would do that, but it had happened to me one other time before, a couple of years ago, also at Arizona State. But that time it was just one or two people, so it wasn't noticed much. Saturday, it was about 10 or 15 people, in unison."

http://articles.latimes.com/1988-03-01/sports/sp-257_1_arizona-state

[dudog84]

Steve Kerr sounding reasonable again:

"Modern life," Kerr said. "Two people seeking attention and they're both getting it. I'm sure both guys are really happy. You know what would help? If all of you just stopped covering both of them. Is that possible? You could probably stop covering LaVar. I don't think you could stop covering the president. I don't think that would work. It would be nice for all of us if both of them would just be quiet. That'd be great."

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/11/19/donald-trump-lavar-ball-twitter-war-steve-kerr-opinion

Please click on 'wrote a response' at the bottom of the article. Man, what an eloquent guy.

[moonpie23]

neither of them could live without the abundant coverage......it's what made both of them

[wavedukefan70s]

That is it, in a nutshell. Stop covering LaVar Ball (Kardashians etc). But a large percentage of the population is undereducated and even less informed.

Have you seen the movie idiocracy?everyday that film looks more and more like a possibility for the future.maybe not to that extent.not that far off either.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Any publicity is good publicity.

Two perfect examples of this philosophy.