UNC Athletics Scandal: UNC Skates

[sammy3469]

IC says tomorrow:

https://scout.com/college/north-carolina/Article/NCAA-Will-Release-UNC-Infractions-Report-Friday-108446624

[left_hook_lacey]

IC says tomorrow:

https://scout.com/college/north-carolina/Article/NCAA-Will-Release-UNC-Infractions-Report-Friday-108446624

Right before they hang their banner tomorrow night. :)

Door Man at Smith Center: Wet blankets, get your wet blankets heeeerrreeee!

[SCMatt33]

Right before they hang their banner tomorrow night. :)

Door Man at Smith Center: Wet blankets, get your wet blankets heeeerrreeee!

Maybe they won't hang a new banner. Mark Emmert will just show up in a lift with a sharpie and cross off the "05" and scribble "17" under it.

[OldPhiKap]

Right before they hang their banner tomorrow night. :)

Door Man at Smith Center: Wet blankets, get your wet blankets heeeerrreeee!

It would be nice to have a post-season ban hanging over the proceedings. And the removal of some of the carpets hanging from the ceiling.

[left_hook_lacey]

It would be nice to have a post-season ban hanging over the proceedings. And the removal of some of the carpets hanging from the ceiling.

As a Process Engineer by trade, I see this as improving the spaghetti chart and eliminating unnecessary motion. Take a few down while you're putting that one up, ya know, while you got the scissor lift out... ;)

[Tripping William]

IC says tomorrow:

https://scout.com/college/north-carolina/Article/NCAA-Will-Release-UNC-Infractions-Report-Friday-108446624

Corroborated by the Associated Press (http://www.wxii12.com/article/ap-sources-ncaa-to-release-ruling-in-unc-case-friday/12837001), citing three "people with knowledge" (but who remain anonymous), with local Triad news running with the AP reporting. Seems legit.

[devildeac]

Right before they hang their banner tomorrow night. :)

Door Man at Smith Center: Wet blankets, get your wet blankets heeeerrreeee!

Maybe they'll ask the NCAA for another delay...

:mad:

[Dukelogger]

"This will all be over by Friday...the 13th"

[moonpie23]

maybe LNWR will be a huge party....


lot's of dancing, people singing "MOONPIE WAS RIGHT"...

[BandAlum83]

"The issues at the heart of this case are clearly the NCAA's business. When a member institution
allows an academic department to provide benefits to student-athletes that are materially different from
the general student body, it is the NCAA's business. When athletics academic counselors exploit
"special arrangement" classes for student-athletes in ways unintended by and contrary to the bylaws,
it is the NCAA's business. When a member institution provides student-athletes an inside track to enroll
in unpublicized courses where grades of As and Bs are the norm,1 it is the NCAA's business. When a
member institution uses "special arrangement" courses to keep a significant number of student-athletes
eligible, it is the NCAA's business. When a member institution fails or refuses to take action after
receiving actual notice of problems involving student-athletes, thereby allowing violations to
compound and to continue for YEARS, it is the NCAA's business. In sum, it is an NCAA matter when
other member schools who choose not to provide impermissible benefits are disadvantaged by their
commitment to compliance."

Exactly!

WOW...Just WOW

[Henderson]

As a Process Engineer by trade, I see this as improving the spaghetti chart and eliminating unnecessary motion. Take a few down while you're putting that one up, ya know, while you got the scissor lift out... ;)

If I understood this, I'm pretty sure I would find it brilliant. Those engineering classes were always so early....

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

maybe LNWR will be a huge party...


lot's of dancing, people singing "MOONPIE WAS RIGHT"...
I just hope you reveal to us tomorrow that you've been purposefully running a reverse jinx curse all these years.

[left_hook_lacey]

I just hope you reveal to us tomorrow that you've been purposefully running a reverse jinx curse all these years.

That's what I've been saying to --JK all along. I think he(she?) has been employing the same tactic since day one.

[hudlow]

But, but....the tuxedos have already been rented and they've been practicing their dance routines for months....

[left_hook_lacey]

But, but...the tuxedos have already been rented and they've been practicing their dance routines for months...

Over-Under that one of the speakers has a few too many, yells profanity's in the NCAA"s direction into the microphone to pump up the crowd, then immediately regrets it when it goes viral?

Kenny the Jet? Ole Roy?

[diablesseblu]

the "N&O" is reporting that the release will be today at noon

[CameronBornAndBred]

though it would seem likely there will be a leak from UNC about this as the Heels have been very leaky thus far).

As long as they are tears, then leak away. Flood Franklin Street.

7702

[chrishoke]

the "N&O" is reporting that the release will be today at noon

Hot damn!

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

New theme for LNWR... "The basement is the floor"

[left_hook_lacey]

New theme for LNWR... "The basement is the floor"

For the match...

[hudlow]

Over-Under that one of the speakers has a few too many, yells profanity's in the NCAA"s direction into the microphone to pump up the crowd, then immediately regrets it when it goes viral?

Kenny the Jet? Ole Roy?

We can only hope.

I hope the sanitation department has the foresight to empty the dumpsters right before the announcement.

[chrishoke]

the "N&O" is reporting that the release will be today at noon

Link?

[devildeac]

We can only hope.

I hope the sanitation department has the foresight to empty the dumpsters right before the announcement.

I doubt they'll have enough equipment/time to empty both kenan and the nose dome...

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

the "N&O" is reporting that the release will be today at noon
Tomorrow. Not today.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article178443681.html

[Tripping William]

the "N&O" is reporting that the release will be today at noon

I'm not usually one to ask for a link, but all I see on the N&O website (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article178443681.html) says it's tomorrow (citing IC). And Andrew Carter's Twitter feed (https://twitter.com/_andrewcarter?lang=en) also says tomorrow (and that Carolina won't have the findings released to them until tomorrow morning).

[Henderson]

the "N&O" is reporting that the release will be today at noon

I wonder if Mark Emmert will have two hats under the table during the announcement. I hope he doesn't announce the NCAA is taking its talent to South Beach.

[left_hook_lacey]

As long as they are tears, then leak away. Flood Franklin Street.

7702

There will be no tears, because at least, they still have football season going for them......Oh wait.....

[diablesseblu]

Glad you asked for the link. The "N&O" originally posted on FB that it was to be today. When I looked for the link, it has now been "updated" to be tomorrow.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article178443681.html

This weekend is Homecoming at UNC, and "Late Night with Roy" is tomorrow night.

[alteran]

Deleted because duh.

Mods, please feel free to delete this post.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Glad you asked for the link. The "N&O" originally posted on FB that it was to be today. When I looked for the link, it has now been "updated" to be tomorrow.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article178443681.html

This weekend is Homecoming at UNC.
LNWR and Homecoming... perfect.

[alteran]

LNWR and Homecoming... perfect.

I guess UNC will get another delay.

[OldPhiKap]

I'm not usually one to ask for a link, but all I see on the N&O website (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article178443681.html) says it's tomorrow (citing IC). And Andrew Carter's Twitter feed (https://twitter.com/_andrewcarter?lang=en) also says tomorrow (and that Carolina won't have the findings released to them until tomorrow morning).

Worth repeating before it gets rolled down this thread -- Carolina apparently has not seen the findings yet.

[Tripping William]

I wonder if Mark Emmert will have two hats under the table during the announcement. I hope he doesn't announce the NCAA is taking its talent to South Beach.

More like a hockey mask:

7703

[Henderson]

Glad you asked for the link. The "N&O" originally posted on FB that it was to be today. When I looked for the link, it has now been "updated" to be tomorrow.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article178443681.html



I love the irony of the N&O citing "Inside Carolina" as one of its sources.

[DevilFalcon]

If UNCheat can respond the afternoon after they get the allegations that means they already know what they are.
With Roy telling Little there won't be much punishment, I have to thank they are going to get off with a much lesser punishment than I feel like they really deserve.
I'm in the camp that they should vacate the last 20 or so years of wins and titles, be banned from the postseason for a while and lose scholarships, and Roy needs to step down. Unfortunately none of those things probably happen.

[left_hook_lacey]

I love the irony of the N&O citing "Inside Carolina" as one of its sources.

Seems about right.

[duke4ever19]

Worth repeating before it gets rolled down this thread -- Carolina apparently has not seen the findings yet.

Okay, so uNC is not aware of what their punishment(s) will be.

Question: Do they find out at the same time as the media and public?

I'd figure the NCAA would at least give them several hours notice ahead of time. I don't have a reason for saying that, it just seems like that would be something that happens.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

If UNCheat can respond the afternoon after they get the allegations that means they already know what they are.
With Roy telling Little there won't be much punishment, I have to thank they are going to get off with a much lesser punishment than I feel like they really deserve.
I'm in the camp that they should vacate the last 20 or so years of wins and titles, be banned from the postseason for a while and lose scholarships, and Roy needs to step down. Unfortunately none of those things probably happen.
I don't think this is true. If tomorrow is the announcement, it means they are to receive their copy today -- 24 hour advance notice is the NCCA's process.

[OldPhiKap]

Okay, so uNC is not aware of what their punishment(s) will be.

Question: Do they find out at the same time as the media and public?

I'd figure the NCAA would at least give them several hours notice ahead of time. I don't have a reason for saying that, it just seems like that would be something that happens.

I think the rule Swood cited a few days ago said that the institution gets an advanced copy, but the rule did not specify how far in advance. No mention of 24 hours.

I would guess that it is fairly shortly prior, so that it does not leak out. But that's just a guess.

I think the 24-hours is just an accommodation that the NCAA makes, giving the institution a head's up that the announcement is coming the next day.

[Henderson]

Okay, so uNC is not aware of what their punishment(s) will be.

Question: Do they find out at the same time as the media and public?

I'd figure the NCAA would at least give them several hours notice ahead of time. I don't have a reason for saying that, it just seems like that would be something that happens.

What OPK said: I think the rules say the NCAA will communicate the result to the University, "then" make it public. No timing guidance.

[chrishoke]

I read somewhere that they will get it Friday morning.

[CharlestonDevil]

You have to give back the money you stole.
You also don't get to keep the cash and just serve some jail time.

For justice to be truly served, the NCAA punishment tomorrow should incorporate both.

If u*nc gets to keep some combination of banners/wins/records for MBB then they truly did get away with it.

[Tripping William]

I think the rule Swood cited a few days ago said that the institution gets an advanced copy, but the rule did not specify how far in advance. No mention of 24 hours.

I would guess that it is fairly shortly prior, so that it does not leak out. But that's just a guess.

I think the 24-hours is just an accommodation that the NCAA makes, giving the institution a head's up that the announcement is coming the next day.


What OPK said: I think the rules say the NCAA will communicate the result to the University, "then" make it public. No timing guidance.

Here is what swood previously posted (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?40304-UNC-Athletics-Scandal-NCAA-response&p=1004497#post1004497). I believe what everyone is referencing as coming out tomorrow is the "public infractions decision." I'm guessing that Carolina gets the "final written infractions decision" today, although I recognize that this guess means Andrew Carter's tweet may have been a little imprecise.

[left_hook_lacey]

Since the punishment is drawing nigh, let's revisit what we think is adequate. Me personally, I really don't care all that much about vacating wins, etc. The main thing to me is post-season bans and scholarship reductions for long periods. Those two things will hurt them and their fan base worse than anything else the NCAA could do, and take longer to get over. No recruit is going to say, "Well, that 2005 banner came down, so I guess I'll go to Duke instead of UNC". However, post-season bans etc. will force UNC to field a team for a few years that couldn't beat my Junior High team. What fun!!

[PDDuke85]

Jay Bilas Retweeted InsideCarolina

After all these years, released same day as Late Night with Roy where an NCAA title banner is raised. You just can’t make this $&@% up...

Oh, I don't know Jay, perhaps the egregious exploitation of primarily African American athletes being shunted through fictitious academic charade involving African American Studies is more of the "you can't make this $&@% UP.

[OldPhiKap]

Jay Bilas Retweeted InsideCarolina

After all these years, released same day as Late Night with Roy where an NCAA title banner is raised. You just can’t make this $&@% up...

Oh, I don't know Jay, perhaps the egregious exploitation of primarily African American athletes being shunted through fictitious academic charade involving African American Studies is more of the "you can't make this $&@% UP.

Or the fact that UNC asked that it not be released last Friday.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Jay Bilas Retweeted InsideCarolina

After all these years, released same day as Late Night with Roy where an NCAA title banner is raised. You just can’t make this $&@% up...

Oh, I don't know Jay, perhaps the egregious exploitation of primarily African American athletes being shunted through fictitious academic charade involving African American Studies is more of the "you can't make this $&@% UP.
They could have done it last week with the capital campaign, Jay.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Jay Bilas Retweeted InsideCarolina

After all these years, released same day as Late Night with Roy where an NCAA title banner is raised. You just can’t make this $&@% up...

Oh, I don't know Jay, perhaps the egregious exploitation of primarily African American athletes being shunted through fictitious academic charade involving African American Studies is more of the "you can't make this $&@% UP.

Well, the cheaters DID have the chance to avoid that setup. But they had that pesky scheduling conflict.

[Henderson]

Jay Bilas Retweeted InsideCarolina

After all these years, released same day as Late Night with Roy where an NCAA title banner is raised. You just can’t make this $&@% up...



To borrow a line from other circumstances, "So when IS the right time to discuss this?"

All this stuff feels like a guilty cheating husband: "I have a bunion. Can we talk about Jennifer next week?"

[swood1000]

UNC’s takeaway from tomorrow’s decision:


Doom'd for a certain term to walk the night
And, for the day, confin'd to fast in fires,
Till the foul crimes, done in my days of nature,
Are burnt and purg'd away.

[NSDukeFan]

To borrow a line from other circumstances, "So when IS the right time to discuss this?"

All this stuff feels like a guilty cheating husband: "I have a bunion. Can we talk about Jennifer next week?"

After football and basketball seasons, but not during recruiting time, or when the teams are scrimmaging, or when Roy is golfing, or when they're trying to raise money, or when someone's on holidays, ...

[Dukelogger]

I guess I'm of the opinion that "no way in hades uNC doesn't know what to expect" which will be "a slap on the wrist" and billy goat nation celebrating the announcement as vindication.

No matter what happens, my opinion will forever be the same - egregious, unprecedented cheating occurred and the 2005 and 2009 championships (and probably 1993) are not legit and they never will be.

[dukebluesincebirth]

Cameron Crazies chant to the NCAA:

SHOW NO MER-CY!! CLAP-CLAP CLAP-CLAP-CLAP!!!
SHOW NO MER-CY!! CLAP-CLAP CLAP-CLAP-CLAP!!!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Well, this makes sense. They can pull down their old banners and put up the new without having to make a new space. Just swap em out.

[Duke95]

Well, this makes sense. They can pull down their old banners and put up the new without having to make a new space. Just swap em out.

One banner forward, two banners back.

[PackMan97]

One can dream....

does the NCAA strip the 2017 title with the admonishment that like every other school in trouble, they should have banned themselves from the post-season once they realized the seriousness of their crimes.

...it's not going to happen, but LOL and just thinking about it.

[BLPOG]

Jay Bilas Retweeted InsideCarolina

After all these years, released same day as Late Night with Roy where an NCAA title banner is raised. You just can’t make this $&@% up...

Oh, I don't know Jay, perhaps the egregious exploitation of primarily African American athletes being shunted through fictitious academic charade involving African American Studies is more of the "you can't make this $&@% UP.

Wow. I think this one wins for most concise proof that Jay Bilas really does not care at all about the facts of this situation and is entirely on board with the UNC PR machine. Really disappointing.

[dukebluesincebirth]

Wow. I think this one wins for most concise proof that Jay Bilas really does not care at all about the facts of this situation and is entirely on board with the UNC PR machine. Really disappointing.

Nothing new.

[OZ]

Jay Bilas Retweeted InsideCarolina

After all these years, released same day as Late Night with Roy where an NCAA title banner is raised. You just can’t make this $&@% up...

Oh, I don't know Jay, perhaps the egregious exploitation of primarily African American athletes being shunted through fictitious academic charade involving African American Studies is more of the "you can't make this $&@% UP.

Actually, you can make this %#@^* up... "The institution acknowledges that although the courses at issue did not meet its expectations for academic rigor, the institution did not deem the courses to be fraudulent"

They did make this %$*&# up and intentionally directed their athletes to this made up #$^@%!

Look for a slap on the wrist!

[brlftz]

Relax, the hammer is coming. Tomorrow is my birthday, this has to have cosmic significance.

[utahdevil]

I sure hope they get hammered. But I have this sneaking suspicion they're going to skate.

[Henderson]

I sure hope they get hammered. But I have this sneaking suspicion they're going to skate.

Credible position. Very Zen like. How about as a haiku?

Hope they get hammered
This sneaking suspicion though
That the Cheats will skate

[BD80]

Relax, the hammer is coming. Tomorrow is my birthday, this has to have cosmic significance.

Really, you were born on Friday the 13th?


Will tomorrow be bad luck for heels or for those of us waiting for the heels to get their due?

[jipops]

Jay Bilas Retweeted InsideCarolina

After all these years, released same day as Late Night with Roy where an NCAA title banner is raised. You just can’t make this $&@% up...

Oh, I don't know Jay, perhaps the egregious exploitation of primarily African American athletes being shunted through fictitious academic charade involving African American Studies is more of the "you can't make this $&@% UP.

He may very well just be pointing out the irony of this. It is potentially poetic though.

[BLPOG]

He may very well just be pointing out the irony of this. It is potentially poetic though.

Come on. We know he isn't.

[OldPhiKap]

Good summary from ESPN as to where things stand and how they got here:

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/21000824/north-carolina-tar-heels-get-ruling-ncaa-infractions-committee-panel-friday

[Henderson]

Jay Bilas has combined two thoughts into one. (1) The NCAA as a regulatory body is deeply flawed. (2) Roy Williams is an honorable guy.

Those two objectively reasonable separate thoughts have been combined in Jay's mind to reach a non sequitur: The NCAA's investigation of UNC-CH is unjust.

It doesn't follow. I'm a Bilas fan. He's just wrong about this.

I can (swallow) agree with Jay that Roy is a nice guy. And I do agree with him that the NCAA is flawed in a lot of ways.

But Roy and UNC-CH deserve to be hammered by the NCAA on this crap. And neither NCAA flaws nor Ol' Roy's being a good guy makes it not so.

[left_hook_lacey]

I guess I'm of the opinion that "no way in hades uNC doesn't know what to expect" which will be "a slap on the wrist" and billy goat nation celebrating the announcement as vindication.

No matter what happens, my opinion will forever be the same - egregious, unprecedented cheating occurred and the 2005 and 2009 championships (and probably 1993) are not legit and they never will be.

You just insulted every Cub's fan that has ever flown the "W".

[Dukelogger]

You just insulted every Cub's fan that has ever flown the "W".

I was a Cubs fan growing up, because I watched the games on WGN and liked the music between innings when they cut to commercial! Everyone around me pulled for the Braves and jumped on the bandwagon in the 90s. But not this guy!

I'm no longer a baseball spectator, but was happy to see the "W" flown after the WS. My apologies!

[slower]

I sure hope they get hammered. But I have this sneaking suspicion they're going to skate.

Which is probably what will happen. Any other expectation is just masochism.

[utahdevil]

Credible position. Very Zen like. How about as a haiku?

Hope they get hammered
This sneaking suspicion though
That the Cheats will skate

This is fantastic! If you were a tarheel, they'd make you a Rhodes Scholar for this effort.

[brlftz]

Really, you were born on Friday the 13th?


Will tomorrow be bad luck for heels or for those of us waiting for the heels to get their due?

I even turned 13 on a Friday the 13th in October. Doesn't get any spookier than that. In this case I'm only asking for ONE THING on my birthday, and that's for tomorrow to be even spookier for UNC.

[Henderson]

Good summary from ESPN as to where things stand and how they got here:

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/21000824/north-carolina-tar-heels-get-ruling-ncaa-infractions-committee-panel-friday

This is good. Well timed summary of where we are until tomorrow. Thanks for the link.

[Henderson]

I even turned 13 on a Friday the 13th in October. Doesn't get any spookier than that. In this case I'm only asking for ONE THING on my birthday, and that's for tomorrow to be even spookier for UNC.

Well, well, well. If the Cheats skate, we'll know somebody didn't blow a candle out properly and screwed us all. :D

[WiJoe]

You just insulted every Cub's fan that has ever flown the "W".

They deserve to be. Have you ever been near one?

[jacone21]

If the cheaters skate, then there should be a lot of GPA improvements at universities all over the country in the coming semesters. The precedent will be set. Cheat away!

[MarkD83]

If UNCheat can respond the afternoon after they get the allegations that means they already know what they are.
With Roy telling Little there won't be much punishment, I have to thank they are going to get off with a much lesser punishment than I feel like they really deserve.
I'm in the camp that they should vacate the last 20 or so years of wins and titles, be banned from the postseason for a while and lose scholarships, and Roy needs to step down. Unfortunately none of those things probably happen.

I have not read the entire thread so if this thought has been mentioned please ignore this comment.

UNC may already have a response ready that states they are appealing the penalties based on....the various arguments they have already made public. This type of response immediately after the NCAA sends out its announcement will be enough for UNC fans to still enjoy LNWR and Homecoming.

Of course if UVA beats UNC in football they will want to count this year as one of the years that the football team is banned from posts season play.

[Duke95]

UNC is going to claim they're exempt from double jeopardy, because they've imposed self-punishment by hiring Larry Fedora.

[MarkD83]

Since the punishment is drawing nigh, let's revisit what we think is adequate. Me personally, I really don't care all that much about vacating wins, etc. The main thing to me is post-season bans and scholarship reductions for long periods. Those two things will hurt them and their fan base worse than anything else the NCAA could do, and take longer to get over. No recruit is going to say, "Well, that 2005 banner came down, so I guess I'll go to Duke instead of UNC". However, post-season bans etc. will force UNC to field a team for a few years that couldn't beat my Junior High team. What fun!!

However, penalties should reflect when the infractions were committed, so vacating wins and giving back money are directly tied to the time of the infractions.

I also think that giving up scholarships does not hurt a program that much. Let's say UNC has to give up 3 scholarships a year for the next 5 years. Who is not going to get the scholarship? The next 5 star recruit or the manager who is a senior and is given a scholarship for his commitment to the program? UNC could still field a team with 10 highly rated players.

Post-season bans are also a deterrent but if I were a one and done and UNC was on TV during the regular season enough, I could still showcase my talents even if there were a post-season ban. That means no NCAA tournament may not reduce the talent pool either.

This is not to say that these punishments shouldn't be in play, its just that they may not reduce a teams talent pool that much.

I wish that banning UNC from TV were a possibility.

[PackMan97]

I must admit, the Friday the 13th/Haunted house just fits right in!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O01knIMTEpY

[22JumpShots]

I wish that banning UNC from TV were a possibility.

I don't know about this one.......I am looking forward to watching them struggle. The next best thing after watching Duke win, is watching the cheats lose. Within a couple of years we all may see Clemson go into the dean dome and collect a win for the first time. How glorious it will be! :cool:

[jafarr1]

UNC is going to skate.

[CameronBlue]

UNC is going to skate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3b0PHFbbW0

[Henderson]

Tip o' the hat to these two guys.

If you've been following this thread, you'll know that these two guys have put extraordinary effort into this, keeping us informed on the latest info, and explaining how life ought to work. The effort should be recognized.

I'm a little worried about them though. What will they do now? I guess there's the appeal. But has some loved one secured the knives and razor blades just in case UNC-CH skates?

Jokes aside, your contributions have been informative, inflammatory, and sustaining. It's been the informative part...

Hope you aren't disappointed.

Damn, how much we all hope your aren't disappointed.

[WiJoe]

Tip o' the hat to these two guys.

If you've been following this thread, you'll know that these two guys have put extraordinary effort into this, keeping us informed on the latest info, and explaining how life ought to work. The effort should be recognized.

I'm a little worried about them though. What will they do now? I guess there's the appeal. But has some loved one secured the knives and razor blades just in case UNC-CH skates?

Jokes aside, your contributions have informative, inflammatory, and sustaining.

Hope you aren't disappointed.

Damn, how much we all hope your aren't disappointed.

At the risk of being unoriginal, I'll second that !!!!

[uh_no]

not sure what i want more tomorrow.....UNC to get hammered, or Sunil Gulati and Bruce Arena to resign.

[devildeac]

not sure what i want more tomorrow....UNC to get hammered, or Sunil Gulati and Bruce Arena to resign.

No brainer for me. Coming from Mount Hatemore, quick and easy response: bury the h**ls.

After the L to T&T, the USMNT will take care of itself shortly we all hope. I have no hatred for them.

[moonpie23]

UNC is going to skate.

correct-a-mundo king friday!!

[uh_no]

correct-a-mundo

-Samuel L Jackson....on the assertion that fonzie is cool.

[OldPhiKap]

UNC is going to claim they're exempt from double jeopardy, because they've imposed self-punishment by hiring Larry Fedora.

That's pretty damn funny right there.

[dukelifer]

UNC is going to skate.

Not fully (women are going to be in trouble) but the Men's team will likely see few penalties. NCAA will be able to show they are tough and still allow one of their premier teams to continue on.

[swood1000]

Tip o' the hat to these two guys.

If you've been following this thread, you'll know that these two guys have put extraordinary effort into this, keeping us informed on the latest info, and explaining how life ought to work. The effort should be recognized.

I'm a little worried about them though. What will they do now? I guess there's the appeal. But has some loved one secured the knives and razor blades just in case UNC-CH skates?

Jokes aside, your contributions have been informative, inflammatory, and sustaining. It's been the informative part...

Hope you aren't disappointed.

Damn, how much we all hope your aren't disappointed.

Thanks for the kind words. I guess if they skate then this is over, but I don't expect that, so we will have appeals as far as the eye can see. But even before that we will have UNC being asked by the COI to identify and list ineligible players for purposes of vacating wins. Plenty of drama ahead.

[hudlow]

Will uNC cancel classes tomorrow?

;)

[PackMan97]

I'm a little worried about them though. What will they do now? I guess there's the appeal. But has some loved one secured the knives and razor blades just in case UNC-CH skates?

I'm going to the NC Zoo with my wife and two kids. I doubt i'll be online before late night firday to discuss the size (or lack thereof) that falls upon UNC. Priorities.

[davekay1971]

I don't think they're gonna skate. I don't know if it'll be what they deserve (vacating every win, including every natty and every final four appearance from 2003 through 2009), but I think it'll be ugly. The NCAA's tone in their rebuttal to UNC advertised that they were not amused with UNC's attitude. UNC took the problem from "it's a big problem showing lack of institutional control which, at least, the University tried to correct when they realized what was going on" to "the institution absolutely made the decision to set up this sham, then to avoid correcting it or even acknowledging it when it all came to light." While the duration and scope of the academic/athletic cheating is unprecedented, so is UNC's defiant attitude.

I assume UNC will appeal and/or sue, so this won't be over on Friday. But I do suspect the punishment they receive will have the distinct flavor of the NCAA attempting to show that it means business, and that it doesn't appreciate the way UNC has handled any of this.

FWIW, I also think the DOJ/Adidas scandal is not good for UNC. The NCAA has every reason to show that it has some relevance as a governing body. Their first opportunity they have to do so is the punishment they decide to lay down on a high publicity case that is generally seen as the most blatant, widespread, and ongoing cheating scandal in the history of college sports. If I were a Carolina fan, I'd be nervous.

[davekay1971]

Will uNC cancel classes tomorrow?

;)

They have classes at UNC? When did that start happening?

[PackMan97]

They have classes at UNC? When did that start happening?

davekay1971 wins the internet today.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Tip o' the hat to these two guys.

If you've been following this thread, you'll know that these two guys have put extraordinary effort into this, keeping us informed on the latest info, and explaining how life ought to work. The effort should be recognized.

I'm a little worried about them though. What will they do now? I guess there's the appeal. But has some loved one secured the knives and razor blades just in case UNC-CH skates?

Jokes aside, your contributions have been informative, inflammatory, and sustaining. It's been the informative part...

Hope you aren't disappointed.

Damn, how much we all hope your aren't disappointed.
Hey... has anyone seen Packman, Swood and Manalishi in the same room together?

I keed. I keed.

[swood1000]

They have classes at UNC? When did that start happening?
They've always had the classes. It's just that only the athletes were notified of/automatically signed up for the ones having optional attendance and requiring optional work.

[swood1000]

So, UNC received today their version of the decision. If they're right now doing a victory dance over there how likely is it that none of that leaked out?

Edit: or do they receive their copy tomorrow? I guess that's it. They were notified this morning that they will receive it tomorrow.

[PackMan97]

Hey... has anyone seen Packman, Swood and Manalishi in the same room together?

I keed. I keed.

No, they haven't...and I doubt they ever will.

[OldPhiKap]

So, UNC received today their version of the decision. If they're right now doing a victory dance over there how likely is it that none of that leaked out?

Edit: or do they receive their copy tomorrow?

Don't think anyone knows when they will/did receive it. Rules only require that they get it first. My guess is that NCAA sends it out soon before public release so that there is no leaking. Just too hard to contain one way or the other.

[Tripping William]

So, UNC received today their version of the decision. If they're right now doing a victory dance over there how likely is it that none of that leaked out?

Edit: or do they receive their copy tomorrow? I guess that's it. They were notified this morning that they will receive it tomorrow.

From Andrew Carter at the N&O (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/unc-now/article178496691.html):


Q. What is the process for unveiling the report on Friday?

A. The university will receive a copy of the report early Friday morning. Hours later, the report will be posted publicly. About an hour after that, there will be a media teleconference with NCAA officials.

[swood1000]

Hey... has anyone seen Packman, Swood and Manalishi in the same room together?

I keed. I keed.
No, they haven't...and I doubt they ever will.
Our periodic disagreements/accusations of being a closet Tar Heel have done much to foster the illusion.

[Owen Meany]

Thanks for the kind words. I guess if they skate then this is over, but I don't expect that, so we will have appeals as far as the eye can see. But even before that we will have UNC being asked by the COI to identify and list ineligible players for purposes of vacating wins. Plenty of drama ahead.

Is the burden on the NCAA to prove that players are ineligible? Or is the cheating so prevalent in this situation that the NCAA can place the burden of proof on UNC (prove that any student should be eligible, did work, etc.)? I am curious because of this paragraph:


Systemic Problem and the Non-identification of Specific Student-Athletes
Unlike many extra benefit cases that involve specific and identifiable student-athletes, this case presents systemic problems that resulted in institutional administrators providing extra benefits to a population of student-athletes over the course of nearly 10 years. In light of how the violations unfolded, the passage of time and the lack of personally identifying information in the institution's records, it is not possible to specifically list each student-athlete who received an extra benefit. The enforcement staff appreciates the challenge this presents in fashioning penalties. However, the enforcement staff does not believe the violation analysis should be impacted by the systemic nature of the behaviors at issue or the lack of precise detail in the materials produced by the institution. Put simply, serious violations occurred even if factual information in the record does not identify each instance or each student-athlete who benefited.


This seems to raise the possibility that the NCAA could be forced to say "we know there is rampant cheating, but unfortunately we are unable to pin it directly on individual athletes, so we are unable to vacate wins. Therefore, penalties are limited to reduction of scholarships, a 1 year post-season ban, and stripping of wins for only the couple of players explicitly mentioned, by name, in emails, who we can prove were directly placed in classes, given grades, etc".

In other words, UNC would escape proper punishment because their cheating was so prevalent, institutionalized and long standing that it was impossible to identify individual athletes involved.

[madscavenger]

No one has mentioned the 800 pound ovine in the room. Wonder what natty outfit she'll be wearing?

[BandAlum83]

Is the burden on the NCAA to prove that players are ineligible? Or is the cheating so prevalent in this situation that the NCAA can place the burden of proof on UNC (prove that any student should be eligible, did work, etc.)? I am curious because of this paragraph:


Systemic Problem and the Non-identification of Specific Student-Athletes
Unlike many extra benefit cases that involve specific and identifiable student-athletes, this case presents systemic problems that resulted in institutional administrators providing extra benefits to a population of student-athletes over the course of nearly 10 years. In light of how the violations unfolded, the passage of time and the lack of personally identifying information in the institution's records, it is not possible to specifically list each student-athlete who received an extra benefit. The enforcement staff appreciates the challenge this presents in fashioning penalties. However, the enforcement staff does not believe the violation analysis should be impacted by the systemic nature of the behaviors at issue or the lack of precise detail in the materials produced by the institution. Put simply, serious violations occurred even if factual information in the record does not identify each instance or each student-athlete who benefited.


This seems to raise the possibility that the NCAA could be forced to say "we know there is rampant cheating, but unfortunately we are unable to pin it directly on individual athletes, so we are unable to vacate wins. Therefore, penalties are limited to reduction of scholarships, a 1 year post-season ban, and stripping of wins for only the couple of players explicitly mentioned, by name, in emails, who we can prove were directly placed in classes, given grades, etc".

In other words, UNC would escape proper punishment because their cheating was so prevalent, institutionalized and long standing that it was impossible to identify individual athletes involved.

I find this to be highly unlikely.

Is that like saying a serial killer killed so many people it's impossible to identify them all, so we will only give a fine a 1 yr probation?

Or we cant identify all the people hurt by Bernie Madoff, so "Mr. Madoff, forfeiture and restitution aren't necessary. We wouldn't know who to give the money to anyway."

[elvis14]

There's one thing that gives me hope. At one time the NCAA gave UNCheat a kinder, gentler NOA thinking that UNCheat would work with them. UNCheat gave the NCAA the finger, however, and told them where they could shove all the allegations. The NCAA rescinded the kinder, gentler NOA and came back with a more vengeful one. This gives me hope. Basically the NCAA offered UNCheat a way out and the Cheaters slapped their hand and told them to go eff themselves and this made the NCAA mad. Let us hope that vengeance is properly served because only then will justice be served (or nearly served).

Note, I consider the banner from last year as tarnished as the others. Because of the delay, deny, deflect tatics and the $$ spent to keep the team from getting punished, the Cheaters had scholarships they should not have had and were allowed to play in post seasons for which they should not have been allowed. 9F

<top_gun> I want some BUTTS! </top_gun>

[swood1000]

Is the burden on the NCAA to prove that players are ineligible? Or is the cheating so prevalent in this situation that the NCAA can place the burden of proof on UNC (prove that any student should be eligible, did work, etc.)? I am curious because of this paragraph:


Systemic Problem and the Non-identification of Specific Student-Athletes
Unlike many extra benefit cases that involve specific and identifiable student-athletes, this case presents systemic problems that resulted in institutional administrators providing extra benefits to a population of student-athletes over the course of nearly 10 years. In light of how the violations unfolded, the passage of time and the lack of personally identifying information in the institution's records, it is not possible to specifically list each student-athlete who received an extra benefit. The enforcement staff appreciates the challenge this presents in fashioning penalties. However, the enforcement staff does not believe the violation analysis should be impacted by the systemic nature of the behaviors at issue or the lack of precise detail in the materials produced by the institution. Put simply, serious violations occurred even if factual information in the record does not identify each instance or each student-athlete who benefited.


This seems to raise the possibility that the NCAA could be forced to say "we know there is rampant cheating, but unfortunately we are unable to pin it directly on individual athletes, so we are unable to vacate wins. Therefore, penalties are limited to reduction of scholarships, a 1 year post-season ban, and stripping of wins for only the couple of players explicitly mentioned, by name, in emails, who we can prove were directly placed in classes, given grades, etc".

In other words, UNC would escape proper punishment because their cheating was so prevalent, institutionalized and long standing that it was impossible to identify individual athletes involved.

The enforcement staff is urging that penalties should be assessed based on misconduct that is not documented. I take this to be in part a reference to LOIC, for which the penalties might depend on how bad was the result of the LOIC. They are saying that even though the number of instances of documented extra benefits is limited the actual number was much greater. Also, maybe the penalties for extra benefits, in addition to ineligibility, depend on how widespread the problem was. In this way it is sort of like the prosecutor in the Al Capone tax evasion trial urging a sentence more severe than simple tax evasion might warrant because of all the other wrongful conduct that was not proved but that we know he is guilty of.

However I think that to take down banners they will have to prove specific acts of extra benefits affecting specific athletes. But all they need is one or two MBB players to bring down entire seasons, and I don’t take the enforcement staff’s language that you quoted here as an indication that they were unable to produce even this. For example, there are these three involving Wayne Walden who was the MBB academic adviser, that would impact the 2005 and 2009 banners:


FI118: January 5, 2005 – Email from Crowder to Walden. This includes, but is not limited to, Crowder discussing men's basketball student-athletes and the courses to which she added them.
(Item2_CrowderToWalden_010505_NorthCarolina_00231)

FI159: August 4, 2008 – Email from Walden to Crowder. This includes, but is not limited to, Walden thanking Crowder for enrolling student-athletes in a course. (Item4_WaldenToCrowder_2of2_080408_NorthCarolina_0 0231)

FI160: August 26, 2008 – Email from Walden to Crowder. This includes, but is not limited to, Walden's request that Crowder add a student-athlete to an AFAM course. (Item4_WaldenToCrowder_082608_NorthCarolina_00231)

[sagegrouse]

I believe the NCAA COI's finding of "guilty" on all five Level 1 violations doesn't immediately affect games won and lost or championships. The findings, however, create conditions where SUBSEQUENT determination of eligibility of players who competed will be made. And, if players are found to have been ineligible, then victories are vacated and -- perhaps -- championships as well.

Reason: the NCAA has its hands full determining institutional violations. The COI is not examining individual players and transcripts. That would be a subsequent process.

Of course, I could be completely wrong, and then I will lose my role playing a lawyer on TV.

[WiJoe]

I believe the NCAA COI's finding of "guilty" on all five Level 1 violations doesn't immediately affect games won and lost or championships. The findings, however, create conditions where SUBSEQUENT determination of eligibility of players who competed will be made. And, if players are found to have been ineligible, then victories are vacated and -- perhaps -- championships as well.

Reason: the NCAA has its hands full determining institutional violations. The COI is not examining individual players and transcripts. That would be a subsequent process.

Of course, I could be completely wrong, and then I will lose my role playing a lawyer on TV.

Suggestion: Don't hold your breath.

[Ultrarunner]

Tip o' the hat to these two guys.

If you've been following this thread, you'll know that these two guys have put extraordinary effort into this, keeping us informed on the latest info, and explaining how life ought to work. The effort should be recognized.

I'm a little worried about them though. What will they do now? I guess there's the appeal. But has some loved one secured the knives and razor blades just in case UNC-CH skates?

Jokes aside, your contributions have been informative, inflammatory, and sustaining. It's been the informative part...

Hope you aren't disappointed.

Damn, how much we all hope your aren't disappointed.

Add StrayGator to the list, too.

[Pghdukie]

I surely agree with the previous posters. My sincere Thanks for all of the effort that was put into this thread.

As with the Time Square Ball on New Year's Eve - when does the official countdown start ? We are getting close you know !

[mgtr]

There's one thing that gives me hope. At one time the NCAA gave UNCheat a kinder, gentler NOA thinking that UNCheat would work with them. UNCheat gave the NCAA the finger, however, and told them where they could shove all the allegations. The NCAA rescinded the kinder, gentler NOA and came back with a more vengeful one. This gives me hope. Basically the NCAA offered UNCheat a way out and the Cheaters slapped their hand and told them to go eff themselves and this made the NCAA mad. Let us hope that vengeance is properly served because only then will justice be served (or nearly served).

Note, I consider the banner from last year as tarnished as the others. Because of the delay, deny, deflect tatics and the $$ spent to keep the team from getting punished, the Cheaters had scholarships they should not have had and were allowed to play in post seasons for which they should not have been allowed. 9F

<top_gun> I want some BUTTS! </top_gun>

I agree, that is all that will let me sleep tonight (other than, perhaps, some decent wine).

[OldPhiKap]

i agree, that is all that will let me sleep tonight (other than, perhaps, some decent wine).

7708

gth, c!!!!!

[BD80]

No brainer for me. Coming from Mount Hatemore, quick and easy response: bury the h**ls. ...

There shouldn't be enough left to bury ...


Will uNC cancel classes tomorrow?

;)

How would one know if this happened? Tree falling in the woods ...

[grossbus]

"I'm going to the NC Zoo with my wife and two kids."

i'm confused. You are going to chapel hole?

[Henderson]

7708



That glass looks half empty.

Wait, now it's 3/4 empty.

Wait, OPK stop editing your post.

Or start sharing. Sheesh.

[OldPhiKap]

That glass looks half empty.

Wait, now it's 3/4 empty.

Wait, OPK stop editing your post.

Or start sharing. Sheesh.

Will bring some to the FSU game.

[cbarry]

UNC is going to skate.
Yes, sadly. I’d bet every dollar I had on that if I could!
Not 1 men’s hoops banner will come down. Anything less is a slap on the wrist, and condones rampant cheating. The NCAA can’t compete with the attorneys THE cheaters bought. It all comes down to legal interpretation, and UNC’s lawyers are higher priced/ better than the NCAA’s.

mild probation for non-rev sports, if that.
maybe a $1,000 fine.

That’s it. Very sad.

(I REALLY hope I’m wrong, but very doubtful)

[BigWayne]

UNC is going to skate.

This is the kind of skating I expect to see tomorrow:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/d6/6f/80/d66f806f4136fcdabda658c9c4518175.gif

[MarkD83]

I agree, that is all that will let me sleep tonight (other than, perhaps, some decent wine).

Fans on this board should not worry about sleeping tonight, but if you are a unc fan sleep may not come easy.

[UrinalCake]

I know we're all hoping that this saga ends tomorrow, but I recall in the Louisville stripper scandal when the COI announced their punishments it was in the form of "the University shall vacate all wins in sports in which ineligible players participated," and then they left it up to the university to identify which games those would be. Then somehow, a very short time later (like maybe a couple days) it came down that the NCAA was taking away the 2013 banner. I never quite understood how the process worked. But I could see something similar happening tomorrow - the NCAA says that UNC must vacate all wins in which ineligible players participated, and the university must identify those players and those games. To which UNC will of course claim that no players were ineligible because they didn't do anything wrong. Maybe they'll throw some women's players to the wolves. But I don't think this story ends tomorrow, and that's not even considering the inevitable appeals which will last well into next year.

[OldPhiKap]

Fans on this board should not worry about sleeping tonight, but if you are a unc fan sleep may not come easy.

Just count sheared sheep.

[Devil549]

A lite tap on the wrist and I hope I am wrong.

UNC should have self sanctioned when this all started like 95% of the member schools would have. Yet they have tried to beat the NCAA system and if they do it may well be the end of the NCAA.

No organization is perfect or has perfect people in that said organization but the great ones recognize their mistakes and move forward. Others think they are great which leads them to also think they are perfect.

Going forward most of us know the "Carolina Way is "a legend in the mind" of UNC fans and grads who still believe that type of hypocrisy.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

It’s not going to be a light tap. NCAA is all in here. Three NOAs with COI virtually demanding the toughest allegations possible. The harsh wording of the recent letter. The NCAA “burned the ships” on this one. No looking back, no turning back. And the best part is that the cheats will appeal and extend their pain even while their few prized recruits realize Roy has been lying to them and bolt. It can’t be anything other than the hammer or the NCAA will spontaneously combust and cease to exist.

[Owen Meany]

I know we're all hoping that this saga ends tomorrow, but I recall in the Louisville stripper scandal when the COI announced their punishments it was in the form of "the University shall vacate all wins in sports in which ineligible players participated," and then they left it up to the university to identify which games those would be. Then somehow, a very short time later (like maybe a couple days) it came down that the NCAA was taking away the 2013 banner. I never quite understood how the process worked. But I could see something similar happening tomorrow - the NCAA says that UNC must vacate all wins in which ineligible players participated, and the university must identify those players and those games. To which UNC will of course claim that no players were ineligible because they didn't do anything wrong. Maybe they'll throw some women's players to the wolves. But I don't think this story ends tomorrow, and that's not even considering the inevitable appeals which will last well into next year.


This is why I asked earlier who has the onus of proving players were eligible/ineligible. The NCAA seems to operate under the assumption that schools (if not their coaches, etc) will cooperate and, at the very least, accept responsibility when caught acting unethically. And for the most part, this seems to work. Most universities are unwilling to tarnish their academic standing by publicly condoning cheating and unethical behavior by their sports teams. That is why it is unfathomable that UNC, when faced with damning proof of rampant and long standing cheating would publicly proclaim "Sure, by anyone else's definition this is fraud, but the NCAA has no standing here so go %*&% yourself" (I can't remember the exact quote, but this is a fairly accurate paraphrase).


If UNC is told to determine ineligible players, I will be curious to see what guidelines/requirements are provided. Bubba has already gone on record previously to declare that even if a bogus class kept a player eligible, that was not enough to rule the player ineligible because "if they hadn't taken the (bogus) class they may have chosen to take a different class, done well and been eligible anyway." And sadly, this is not an embellishment on Bubba's comments. According to UNC, a player would be eligible based on an imaginary class they just might have chosen to take instead had the university not offered bogus classes.


UNC, the university, has shown it will sacrifice its academic standing to keep its banners. Even when caught red-handed they are unwilling to accept even minimal repercussions, as they showed when attacking the NCAA after they were gifted a watered-down, UNC-friendly amended NOA. The NCAA cannot expect UNC to self-police in anyway shape or form (such as determining ineligible athletes) as other universities have because they lack one critical component that previous transgressors have had - they have no shame.

[Devil549]

I hope you are right Doc but just not as confident as you and others.....again hope I am wrong.

IF NCAA comes down hard it will be time for UNC to have their "day in court".

[ipatent]

Suppose they make UNC vacate wins with ineligible players. Is a player who took a fake course automatically ineligible? Could they argue such a player still met eligibility requirements because he was over some overall progress threshold? Who knows the rule on player eligibility? Can you fail a course or two and still be eligible to play?

http://www.ncaa.org/about/what-we-do/academics


Student-athletes commit to academic achievement and the pursuit of a degree, and they are required to meet yearly standards to be able to compete. College athletes' success is tracked using three measures: grades, minimum credit hours per year and progress toward earning a degree.

It could get complicated. Of course if the player received an impermissible benefit just by taking the course, you could argue that made him ineligible by itself.

[ipatent]

Suppose they make UNC vacate wins with ineligible players. Is a player who took a fake course automatically ineligible? Could they argue such a player still met eligibility requirements because he was over some overall progress threshold? Who knows the rule on player eligibility? Can you fail a course or two and still be eligible to play?

http://www.ncaa.org/about/what-we-do/academics


It could get complicated. Of course if the player received an impermissible benefit just by taking the course, you could argue that made him ineligible by itself.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/division-i-progress-toward-degree-requirements

[jv001]

I even turned 13 on a Friday the 13th in October. Doesn't get any spookier than that. In this case I'm only asking for ONE THING on my birthday, and that's for tomorrow to be even spookier for UNC.

Tomorrow(Friday-13th) is my birthday as well. Sure would be a fine birthday present to see the cheating no good scum bags get slammed. GoDuke!

[BLPOG]

Suppose they make UNC vacate wins with ineligible players. Is a player who took a fake course automatically ineligible? Could they argue such a player still met eligibility requirements because he was over some overall progress threshold? Who knows the rule on player eligibility? Can you fail a course or two and still be eligible to play?

http://www.ncaa.org/about/what-we-do/academics


It could get complicated. Of course if the player received an impermissible benefit just by taking the course, you could argue that made him ineligible by itself.

It's been a while since I've looked into this topic, but going from memory, let's segment the way the NCAA could classify the courses into three categories:

1. Academic fraud
2. Not fraud but failing on some sort of progress toward degree requirement or just invalidated in some other way
3. Impermissible benfits

My understanding is that (1) would result in immediate ineligibility, (2) would result in certain GPA calculations being necessary and would affect the subsequent academic eligibility calculation (i.e. for playing during the next semester), and (3) would result in immediate ineligibility. Ineligibility continues until eligibility is restored, IIRC.

Of course, whether most of my recollection is correct is irrelevant, since the NCAA isn't looking at (1) or (2). Instead, they are just looking at this stuff as impermissible benefits, which I believe corresponds to an immediate ineligibility that is unrelated to the calculation for academic eligibility; i.e. the course is not invalidated, but the player's eligibility is suspended due to an impermissible benefits infraction.

In case I made that all up, hopefully swood will swoop in with some citations.

[kcduke75]

Is a player who took a fake course automatically ineligible?

I am confused. I understood that the NCAA has gone to great lengths to say that they are not questioning the fake classes - the athletes got impermissible benefits for placement in these courses in ways that were not available to the general student body.

Isn't receiving an impermissible benefit the basis for ineligibility, not academic progress?

Help?

. . . it will all become clear in good time, Grasshopper

[jafarr1]

This is the kind of skating I expect to see tomorrow:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/d6/6f/80/d66f806f4136fcdabda658c9c4518175.gif

Hope you're right. I just don't see it happening.

[duke4ever19]

It's been a while since I've looked into this topic, but going from memory, let's segment the way the NCAA could classify the courses into three categories:

1. Academic fraud
2. Not fraud but failing on some sort of progress toward degree requirement or just invalidated in some other way
3. Impermissible benfits

My understanding is that (1) would result in immediate ineligibility, (2) would result in certain GPA calculations being necessary and would affect the subsequent academic eligibility calculation (i.e. for playing during the next semester), and (3) would result in immediate ineligibility. Ineligibility continues until eligibility is restored, IIRC.

Of course, whether most of my recollection is correct is irrelevant, since the NCAA isn't looking at (1) or (2). Instead, they are just looking at this stuff as impermissible benefits, which I believe corresponds to an immediate ineligibility that is unrelated to the calculation for academic eligibility; i.e. the course is not invalidated, but the player's eligibility is suspended due to an impermissible benefits infraction.

In case I made that all up, hopefully swood will swoop in with some citations.

A pretty good summary. I'm still not entirely clear as to why No. 1. isn't being considered, but there's probably a simple answer that has been addressed five dozen times on this board.

Anyone remember this "final paper" being good enough for an athlete to get an A- in an AFAM class? And this paper wasn't even submitted for one of the so-called "paper classes." This was supposedly for an introductory course in the AFAM department.

7709

I wish I had a way to access what the final papers looked like for the paper classes. I bet they made Blake's 'Johnny Rockets' essay look like Montaigne.

[ipatent]

It's been a while since I've looked into this topic, but going from memory, let's segment the way the NCAA could classify the courses into three categories:

1. Academic fraud
2. Not fraud but failing on some sort of progress toward degree requirement or just invalidated in some other way
3. Impermissible benfits

My understanding is that (1) would result in immediate ineligibility, (2) would result in certain GPA calculations being necessary and would affect the subsequent academic eligibility calculation (i.e. for playing during the next semester), and (3) would result in immediate ineligibility. Ineligibility continues until eligibility is restored, IIRC.

Of course, whether most of my recollection is correct is irrelevant, since the NCAA isn't looking at (1) or (2). Instead, they are just looking at this stuff as impermissible benefits, which I believe corresponds to an immediate ineligibility that is unrelated to the calculation for academic eligibility; i.e. the course is not invalidated, but the player's eligibility is suspended due to an impermissible benefits infraction.

In case I made that all up, hopefully swood will swoop in with some citations.

If they just look at #3, UNC has a chance to skate based on non-athlete enrollment in the classes. #1 is hard to show, given that the school offered the course. I hope they don't abandon #2 altogether. A player needs 24 credit hours per year to stay eligible. I think a normal course load is 30 hours per year. If they deny credit for paper classes, a player who took one paper class in a year with a normal course load otherwise passing all the other courses could still be considered eligible. A player who took more than one paper course per year would probably not be considered eligible.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/division-i-progress-toward-degree-requirements

I doubt they'll go to that length, but if they don't the scheme successfully served its purpose.

[devildeac]

From Greensboro:

https://twitter.com/Ed_Hardin/status/918556670804013056

"UNC awaits its fate having already lost its soul"

From one of the replies/comments:

"If the Hammer of Thor does not descend upon UNC, including removal of Banner(s), then the NCAA should and will be disbanded. They will have lost the moral authority to oversee college athletics."

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Iiiiiiit's game day!


Oh wait, no it isn't. It is just Friday the 13th.

Will UNC feel vindication over the $18m the have spent on their defense? Or will Duke fans finally get satisfaction?

Stay tuned to this channel for details...

[mgtr]

I predict that neither group will be happy -- Holes will think they got reamed, Dukies will believe the Holes skated. Everybody loses.

[lotusland]

https://youtu.be/oa3uuj0gx4g

The cheating scheme was created to get the banners. Take them down down down. Take them down.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I predict that neither group will be happy -- Holes will think they got reamed, Dukies will believe the Holes skated. Everybody loses.

I got into an internet fight (I know, I know) with some fans who think that the one year of SCAC probation was sufficient punishment, and therefore the NCAA won't touch them. Lord.

[OldPhiKap]

The whole world is watching!
The whole world is watching!
The whole world is watching!
The whole world is watching!
The whole world is watching!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

This could be quite the epic weekend for Duke sports fans.

[OldPhiKap]

Popping popcorn now, 'cause I'm gonna go through a bunch today.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Popping popcorn now, 'cause I'm gonna go through a bunch today.

Might have break my "No IC browsing" rule today.

[moonpie23]

Might have break my "No IC browsing" rule today.

you won't want to...... :(

[Dukelogger]

Never should have kicked out a Presbyterian College basketball fan for yelling "Miss it, Deon."

Seriously look at how they're yanking this guys shirt and pushing him as if he deserved to get kicked out of the game, which he didn't and yet he's clearly leaving the game anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGwgTjt1_qs

[left_hook_lacey]

I predict that neither group will be happy -- Holes will think they got reamed, Dukies will believe the Holes skated. Everybody loses.

Not everyone. http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/unc-scandal/article140688913.html

[left_hook_lacey]

They say people that take joy in the misery of others are mental. Am I mental? Should I seek counseling?

Coworker: Going out for payday lunch today. You in?

Me: Nah.

Coworker: Why not? You usually go. Everything ok.

Me: Couldn't be better, just not sure what time I'll be able to go today.

Coworker: Something you're working on I can help out with?

I finally realize I'm going to have to tell her that I'm waiting for the report to come out so I can spend my lunch break sitting in my car swimming in the pool of misery that is about to be bestowed upon Chapel Hell.

Me: I don't know when I'll go because I'm waiting for a press release from the NCAA that is due out around lunch time. I want to spend my lunch break scrolling site after site to see the reaction that the dirty, rotten scoundrels from CH have finally been brought to justice, just hours before they hang another tainted banner! I want to swim in their tears, and hear their bellows and screams of despair, singing like a choir of demons dragging countless souls down a whirlpool straight to hell........while I eat my chicken pita I brought from home. So no, I can't go to lunch today. Thanks for asking though.

[lotusland]

They say people that take joy in the misery of others are mental. Am I mental? Should I seek counseling?

Coworker: Going out for payday lunch today. You in?

Me: Nah.

Coworker: Why not? You usually go. Everything ok.

Me: Couldn't be better, just not sure what time I'll be able to go today.

Coworker: Something you're working on I can help out with?

I finally realize I'm going to have to tell her that I'm waiting for the report to come out so I can spend my lunch break sitting in my car swimming in the pool of misery that is about to be bestowed upon Chapel Hell.

Me: I don't know when I'll go because I'm waiting for a press release from the NCAA that is due out around lunch time. I want to spend my lunch break scrolling site after site to see the reaction that the dirty, rotten scoundrels from CH have finally been brought to justice, just hours before they hang another tainted banner! I want to swim in their tears, and hear their bellows and screams of despair, singing like a choir of demons dragging countless souls down a whirlpool straight to hell...while I eat my chicken pita I brought from home. So no, I can't go to lunch today. Thanks for asking though.

TMI. Just tell him/her you have too much on your plate today.

[dudog84]

I am solidly in the camp that thinks uNC gets hammered. Another reason:

To my memory, every other university that has gone through this process has self-imposed some type of penalty before getting the final word from the NCAA. I believe it is expected, and even written in the guidelines somewhere.

For the NCAA to maintain any respect and viability, they must hammer uNC not just for what they've done but also for the way they've conducted themselves after this travesty came to light. To not do so would negate the NCAA's very reason for existing, really the only reason they exist. Self preservation is a very strong instinct.

[devildeac]

The whole world is watching!
The whole world is watching!
The whole world is watching!
The whole world is watching!
The whole world is watching!

From the same era:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bolfj035-ts

[dukelifer]

Not everyone. http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/unc-scandal/article140688913.html

500 kids could have gone to UNC tuition free for 4 years for what they spent on this.

[left_hook_lacey]

500 kids could have gone to UNC tuition free for 4 years for what they spent on this.

Really puts it in perspective when you put it like that. Not to mention the resources the NCAA also spent investigating.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

500 kids could have gone to UNC tuition free for 4 years for what they spent on this.
The BOG and administration don't run the university*... the rams club does.

[4Gen]

Never should have kicked out a Presbyterian College basketball fan for yelling "Miss it, Deon"

If i, as a ticketholder, had been bodily removed, the facility by now would have renamed the John Dome.

[left_hook_lacey]

IC is saying information will be released at 10am, with possible leaks on their premium site before then.

[Dukelogger]

If i, as a ticketholder, had been bodily removed, the facility by now would have renamed the John Dome.

This guy handled that (w)hole situation remarkably well, all things considered.

[Skitzle]

IC is saying information will be released at 10am, with possible leaks on their premium site before then.

After last years NOA2 I'm not listening to any leakers...

but god the next 3 hours are going to be SLLLLLLLLLLOW

[OldPhiKap]

Per Andrew Carter:

UNC now has the report.
Public version to be released at 10
Sankey press conference at 11

[hudlow]

The BOG and administration don't run the university*... the rams club does.

According to IC, The Rams Club got the first look at the release at 7:00 am....so yeah.

[MarkD83]

According to IC, The Rams Club got the first look at the release at 7:00 am...so yeah.

So this was an athletic scandal. Otherwise the Rams Club would not care.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

So this was an athletic scandal. Otherwise the Rams Club would not care.

Sure hope the NCAA agrees with you.

[Indoor66]

So this was an athletic scandal. Otherwise the Rams Club would not care.

But, but it was academics - a rogue professor and a rogue secretary. Nothing to see here. Move on, move on.

[Indoor66]

Time for the HAMMER to fall....😈😡😎

[hudlow]

So this was an athletic scandal. Otherwise the Rams Club would not care.

I wonder if they shook the members down for a premium donation to be among the elite first to know?

[Indoor66]

The party's over.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Time for the HAMMER to fall...😈😡😎

Today may be the day my "refresh" button finally wears out on my computer and my phone.

[left_hook_lacey]

Just wondering how this works so someone chime in with better knowledge than I...but aren't all these scandals and things coming out at once good for sites like DBR and IC ad sales? Between the UNC stuff the last few weeks, and the ongoing adidas scandal, people are posting and visiting/lurking more than ever. Combine that with football performing well, and basketball season right around corner, site clicks have to be off the map right?

Just wondering. Carry on.

[Skitzle]

Today may be the day my "refresh" button finally wears out on my computer and my phone.

This and the Harrison Barnes dday...

[MarkD83]

Something to read for the next 20 minutes while we wait for the release.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20341210/a-primer-how-got-here-north-carolina-vs-ncaa

I tried reading Kedsy's analysis of Phase 0 for this year's Duke team but I could not concentrate on all of the stats. BTW great job on the analysis.

[FerryFor50]

The only appropriate way for the COI to be announced is via Skype.

[martydoesntfoul]

A headline I'd like to see:

Seeking Evil Cheats Commissioner Greg Sank-tions announces Unprecedented Nasty Comprehensive penalties...

[porcophile]

"Are you ready? Hey, are you ready for this?
Are you hanging on the edge of your seat?"

[left_hook_lacey]

"Are you ready? Hey, are you ready for this?
Are you hanging on the edge of your seat?"

As long as this day ends with "Another One Bites the Dust"

[chrishoke]

Sending a prayer to heaven asking for justice.

[Indoor66]

Sending a prayer to heaven asking for justice.

Over at the Dump they are praying for mercy; they are going to receive Justice.

[left_hook_lacey]

IC getting pumped up that "good news" is coming.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Over at the Dump they are praying for mercy; they are going to receive Justice.

I'd settle for Justise.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

How long have we been waiting for the DBR thread to finally be posted "NCAA Burns UNC Athletics to the Ground, Salts the Earth?"

[BandAlum83]

IC getting pumped up that "good news" is coming.

Not liltarheel93:

"I have seen other sites say it looks good for us but I still believe the NCAA will come down hard. They are fighting for their survival. IMO, I could see loss of banners, post season ban for 2 years, and loss of scholarships"

[luburch]

They skated. Of course they did. Wow.

[El_Diablo]

Summary (headline is not promising):

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/infractions-panel-could-not-conclude-academic-violations-north-carolina-case


Decision:

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Oct2017_University-of-North-Carolina-at-Chapel-Hill_InfractionsDecision_20171013.pdf

[sammy3469]

And they skate...

https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Oct2017_University-of-North-Carolina-at-Chapel-Hill_InfractionsDecision_20171013.pdf

[El_Diablo]

Yep, they skated.

[moonpie23]

man, i hate being right.

[Skitzle]

Delete posted before penalties came out

[OldPhiKap]

Good lawyers are worth the money.

Next play.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Wow. Complete and total whiff. Stunning.

[BandAlum83]

Based on the nature of the case and the posture of the record, the panel concludes that the only violations in this case are the department chair's and the secretary's failure to cooperate...........................

The panel concludes that both violated ethical conduct and cooperation bylaws. The department chair's violation is Level I and the secretary's violation is Level II.

The panel classifies the department chair's violation as Level I-Aggravated.

the panel prescribes a five-year show-cause order for the department chair.

[Duke79UNLV77]

My interest in NCAA sports just went down several notches. I'll still root for my school, but the NCAA is a burning garbage heap.

[FerryFor50]

Based on the nature of the case and the posture of the record, the panel concludes that the only violations in this case are the department chair's and the secretary's failure to cooperate.............

The panel concludes that both violated ethical conduct and cooperation bylaws. The department chair's violation is Level I and the secretary's violation is Level II.

The panel classifies the department chair's violation as Level I-Aggravated.

the panel prescribes a five-year show-cause order for the department chair.

Lesson the NCAA has taught here: The cover-up is, in fact, NOT worse than the crime. In fact, it's totally awesome and can help you immensely!

[Indoor66]

I quit.

[elvis14]

I am literally sick to my stomach right now. $$$$$$$$$$$ who, when, where, now much?

[BLPOG]

Good lawyers are worth the money.

Next play.

If "next play" is a euphemism for moving on and accepting the Cheats' victory as a fait accompli, I can't say I'm for it. I think the next play is for Duke and the other ACC schools to take action on their own. I know I'm preaching to the choir, but really, how can we stand for this outcome? What is the point of playing against Carolina?

[BandAlum83]

The NCAA has just confirmed their irrelevance.

[hudlow]

Not even a gentle slap on the wrist...

[chrishoke]

Members of the Committee on Infractions are drawn from NCAA membership and members of the public. Along with Sankey, the members of the panel who reviewed this case are Carol Cartwright, president emeritus at Kent State and Bowling Green; Alberto Gonzales, dean of the law school at Belmont and former attorney general of the United States; Eleanor W. Myers, associate professor of law emerita and former faculty athletics representative at Temple; Joseph D. Novak, former head football coach at Northern Illinois; and Jill Pilgrim, attorney in private practice.

May these people burn in HELL!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

The NCAA has just confirmed their irrelevance.

Even worse- they have confirmed that the best way to deal with an NCAA investigation is to fight fight fight. They've sentenced themselves to decades of legal battles over every infraction.

Congrats UNC, congrats NCAA. You two deserve each other.

[DukeFanInTerpLand]

If "next play" is a euphemism for moving on and accepting the Cheats' victory as a fait accompli, I can't say I'm for it. I think the next play is for Duke and the other ACC schools to take action on their own. I know I'm preaching to the choir, but really, how can we stand for this outcome? What is the point of playing against Carolina?

What's to stop any school from offering these sham classes as long as a few non-athletes can take them? Green light for schools now. What a precedent to set.

[Ian]

My interest in NCAA sports just went down several notches. I'll still root for my school, but the NCAA is a burning garbage heap.

And I've decided I've watched my last NCAA competition of any kind. Good luck to the Blue Devils, it's been a good 3+ decade run but I cannot in good conscious be part of anything that the NCAA is involved in.

Maybe one day when the NCAA goes away I'll come back.

[blazindw]

Un. Be. Lee. Vah. Bull.

The NCAA is absolute trash. I can't even type my thoughts because the censor would overload.

[DukeFanSince1990]

NCAA rules committee = pro wrestling referees

[devildeac]

Totally stunning. May the gates of hell be opened wide for the ncaa and the scum from chappaheeya.

Let the cheating commence/continue.

[devildeac]

Un. Be. Lee. Vah. Bull.

The NCAA is absolute trash. I can't even type my thoughts because the censor would overload.

Wait, you're a mod. Surely you have an alternative plan. ;):rolleyes:

[JasonEvans]

I'm practically crying.

The NCAA just took their mission of educating athletes and chucked it out the window. They signed their own death warrant. Simply unreal.

I need some time... I just cannot even imagine how this happened.

[thedukelamere]

Just a sad, sad day. Thoughts and prayers to the couple of posters who mentioned today was their bday... Can't imagine a worse gift.

[Eternal Outlaw]

Syracuse should give Boeheim back his wins, Louisville shouldn't even bother turning in the report of what they need to vacate and tell the NCAA to shove it. And of course all the other schools who got hit for much lesser scandals should disregard any remaining penalties and/or put back wins.

[blazindw]

Wait, you're a mod. Surely you have an alternative plan. ;):rolleyes:

Ladies and gents, the podcast team will be recording a podcast this afternoon. Be prepared in advance: many, many, MANY words are going to be said.

[sammy3469]

The logical extension of this is that every school sets up a curriculum available to any student of "no-show" classes that meet the graduation requirements. Just sad since you know some (maybe a whole bunch) will do it.

[OldPhiKap]

If "next play" is a euphemism for moving on and accepting the Cheats' victory as a fait accompli, I can't say I'm for it.

For me, it means exactly that. This decision confirms that college sports is essentially a semi-pro minor league. Enjoy it for what it is. Give up the illusion that it is anything other than that.

Not saying I am happy about it, mind you. But it is what it is.

Just go ahead and pay the players, let them at least get rewarded for their efforts.

OPK, out.

[Ky-Dukie]

Wow ! The cheats just became the O J of college athletics ! :mad:

[CameronBlue]

Cue the Carolina Way PR mule uh mill and Jay Bilas tweets. Good day to spend at your local bookstore or just updating your list of soft targets in Chapel Hill...Halloween's coming, eggs are on sale.

[royalblue]

I've been to 7 final fours
Duke won 01 10 15
UConn won 99 04
Uncch won 93 17
This is worse they needed 7 years to decide
Nothing
The rest of the NCAA is being punished
I have not felt this bad since Fred Brown's pass

[nmduke2001]

WOW!

This really could open the flood gates. What's to stop any school now to offer "paper" classes as a recruiting tool? "Hey, Jimmy, I know you don't want to waste time with classes but the NBA requires that you come to school for a year; come here and you can turn in one poem at the end of the semester and stay eligible. Don't worry, UNC does it and the NCAA says it's fine."

[left_hook_lacey]

I feel like I'm in a bad dream, the night before the COI releases the announcement. Somebody wake me up.

[Bluedog]

So, you're telling me Notre Dame SELF REPORTS a couple players getting improper tutoring for one class / exams and the NCAA vacates their runner up entire season yet UNC has fake classes for decades that benefits hundreds of athletes and get nothing?! My problem is more about the lack of consistency in doling out punishments. USC got hammered, heck Syracuse got way more harsh penalties for something much smaller. Makes no sense at all but if you're a school, you should never self report or impose your own sanctions (like Louisville did) as that admits fault and the NCAA will punish further. Obfuscation works!

[BobBender]

What a miscarriage of justice, NCAA has lost any shred of credibility. Why should any P5 school follow the rules at this point? I’d love to hear the unfiltered views of Pitino and Boeheim. As for Bilas and Vitale, they should just STFU

[Chard]

It took how many years to come to that? Am I awake?

What a total waste of time. Not surprised unfortunately.

Nothing is sacred anymore. All we can do is focus on our own selves and live to a higher standard. They surely don't in Chapel Hill.

[JasonEvans]

Ladies and gents, the podcast team will be recording a podcast this afternoon. Be prepared in advance: many, many, MANY words are going to be said.

Many of those words will contain 4 letters.

[jv001]

Just a sad, sad day. Thoughts and prayers to the couple of posters who mentioned today was their bday... Can't imagine a worse gift.

Thanks for the prayers and thoughts. Today will be remembered not for one of my birthdays, but the day, I completely refuse to recognize the biggest cheating school(elementary school at that). When that name is mentioned, I will say "sorry I don't know that team/school". As for the NCAA, I hope they are sued from Alaska to Florida and have to close the doors. They are nothing. What a day! God bless the USA and Duke University but GTHNCAA! GoDuke!

[CrazyNotCrazie]

This is a joke. And it took them this long to get to this conclusion? What a joke. I thought it was universally accepted that the Tar Heels did something wrong, and the only issue in question was how severe the penalty would be. Between this and the FBI doing their job for them with the shoe money scandal, the NCAA has proven itself to be completely useless and neutered.

[gus]

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?39095-UNC-Scandal-NCAA-issues-new-Notice-of-Allegations-against-UNC&p=934233#post934233

7710

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

How do they take all that time, allege five Level 1 violations, and come back with nothing?

Someone must have pictures. I cannot fathom any other explanation.

BTW, did anyone else hear the implosion in Raleigh? Wow.

[devildeac]

Many of those words will contain 4 letters.

Sponsorship may increase exponentially!

Make it a national event!

[Dukelogger]

Big win for all the attorneys out there, go get that $.

Having said that, one thing remains entirely intact:

Everyone outside of tarhole nation (and lets be real, they know it too) knows they were guilty of an unprecedented cheating scandal and all of the banners will always be entirely discounted by every other fanbase.

OJ walked out of that court room, but he was always guilty as charged.

Phase 2, tarholes begin their next life as the OJ Simpson of college basketball. And everyone knows it.

[4Gen]

Seth Greenberg just opined that this incident would cause coaches to closely oversee their players' academic development, from which I conclude he took Logic 101 at Carolina.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

The NCAA is a wankered gutless institution. F F F F F F F F SFD

[Trey21]

I'll always have a place in my heart for college sports, specifically basketball because I grew up in the 919.

But I just don't understand who anyone can truly say that the NCAA has any ethics, it's pretty much like FIFA at this point. Also that pretty much every part of college basketball is pretty scummy going down to the funding, recruiting, etc. The outside circumstances of major college sports has just become full of a lot of dirt, not far removed from the NFL. In a pure basketball sense, I can't say that the product is as enjoyable as it has been in the past. That's due to a lot of circumstances that I won't go into here, but my personal love for basketball is at all time high, or at least as high as its ever been. The NBA isn't perfect but the pure quality of basketball and character of its players may it far far more enjoyable than college basketball. The NBA is in a golden era, I don't know if basketball has ever been played this smartly and unselfishly in the most distinguished basketball league. That said, I root for no team like I root for like I do for Duke, and college basketball still has the beauty of March Madness, but this news today furthers my general disgust in the NCAA and declining interest in college sports.

[elvis14]

I haven't read the report but I've been told that the COI disagreed with the enforcement staff's report and that the enforcement staff was all in on impermissable benefits.

Anyone else hear this?

[sammy3469]

So why didn't the COI just dismiss this case long ago? Why the hell did they send it back to enforcement for the second ANOA??? Nothing about this makes any sense from a process point of view.

[UNCfan]

Surprised and relieved. I never wanted the program to be crushed, but I assumed it would be. I often cringed at the way UNC prolonged the process, but ultimately, it worked in their favor. I do not think any punishment would have satisfied the rival fanbases, but this is probably the worst scenario for you guys. Maybe justice was not served in your eyes, but there has been damage to UNC's reputation and to the basketball program during the investigation. With the FBI investigation, maybe UNC's recruiting woes will prove to be less about OAD success and NCAA issues and more about UNC not paying to play. I think those pointing fingers will have something to worry about.

Regardless, new season and new horizons.

[FerryFor50]

Seth Greenberg just opined that this incident would cause coaches to closely oversee their players' academic development, from which I conclude he took Logic 101 at Carolina.

Maybe what he means is "coaches now see that you can offer fake classes to everyone, including your student athletes, and not be penalized. So, why not oversee that process?"

[Ian]

Maybe what he means is "coaches now see that you can offer fake classes to everyone, including your student athletes, and not be penalized. So, why not oversee that process?"

Just ensure that each of the fake classes are attended by some regular students.

[hudlow]

uNC-OJ ?

[Nick]

I'd like to see Roy Williams do an OJ Simpson move and volunteer to track down the real cheaters.

[OZ]

ESPN report: 3.5 years and $18 million later... "The ncaa Infractions Committee could NOT conclude that unc violated any ncaa academic rules."

In other words, the ncaa concluded, that after - 3100 students took paper classes... at least 1500 were athletes... in order to remain academically eligible, some received bogus grades - there was nothing to see here. So, the truth that emerges is that the ncaa is not going to govern an institution's academics as long as everyone gets to cheat. They have NO rules on academics that are available to student body... so cheat away!

Who is the victim here? Any legitimate student who is busting his/her butt to receive an academic education at a university that puts athletics first.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Good summary from the NY Times, with the crux of the issue in the lede:

"The N.C.A.A. on Friday announced that it “could not conclude that the University of North Carolina violated N.C.A.A. academic rules” in what is widely considered the worst academic scandal in college sports history."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/13/sports/unc-north-carolina-ncaa.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

[FerryFor50]

ESPN report: 3.5 years and $18 million later... "The ncaa Infractions Committee could NOT conclude that unc violated any ncaa academic rules."

In other words, the ncaa concluded, that after - 3100 students took paper classes... at least 1500 were athletes... in order to remain academically eligible, some received bogus grades - there was nothing to see here. So, the truth that emerges is that the ncaa is not going to govern an institution's academics as long as everyone gets to cheat. They have NO rules on academics that are available to student body... so cheat away!

Who is the victim here? Any legitimate student who is busting his/her butt to receive an academic education at a university that puts athletics first.

They screwed themselves by setting that precedent. They should have closed that loophole by coming down hard on UNC. Now, they get to fight this case over and over in the future.

[royalblue]

Heels logo should now be a picture of a smiling OJ
Virginia was less blindsided when Chaminade won in 1982

[dudog84]

Goodbye to this fine board and website. I will never again watch an NCAA event. College athletics is a completely corrupt enterprise and I will not be a party to it (Yeah, I know, I don't think anybody in Indianapolis is breaking a sweat over my announcement).

Unfortunately that includes Duke basketball, football, soccer, tiddlywinks, etc. It will be difficult, but I swore off the Steelers when they hired a dog torturer, and that fandom preceded my Duke fandom by 10 years and was just as strong. I honestly wouldn't enjoy watching anything, this decision would gnaw at me through the entire experience, and I'm getting too old to waste my time on something I neither enjoy nor respect.

It is tempting to say that if Duke had any integrity they would withdraw from the NCAA, but that's heat of the moment and probably an overreaction. And maybe even a bit silly. I really am totally shocked by this, so pardon me if you think I'm overreacting.

I have enjoyed the back-and-forth on here. I'll probably see some of you on the off-topic board occasionally, plenty of good debate over there.

I wish you all well.

[left_hook_lacey]

You can't tell me that UNC wasn't in the know about this. I mean, all of a sudden out of the blue they get Nas Little, their first top ten player in years. Then Roy starts hitting the trail hard and recruits are quoting roy as saying "We're fine, MBB won't be touched by this NCAA stuff". Then, the NEXT DAY, the NCAA announces it is releasing the COI findings?

Either UNC already knew they were going to skate, or their lawyers were so confident they passed that confidence on to Roy and Co.

[Nick]

The shoe companies gave money to some non-athletes at Louisville too, so it's really more of an academic scandal than an athletic one. Come on back, Rick Pitino!

[Chard]

Wow ! The cheats just became the O J of college athletics ! :mad:

Our only hope is they get busted for a kidnapping charge because they wanted their integrity back.

[OZ]

Surprised and relieved. I never wanted the program to be crushed, but I assumed it would be. I often cringed at the way UNC prolonged the process, but ultimately, it worked in their favor. I do not think any punishment would have satisfied the rival fanbases, but this is probably the worst scenario for you guys. Maybe justice was not served in your eyes, but there has been damage to UNC's reputation and to the basketball program during the investigation. With the FBI investigation, maybe UNC's recruiting woes will prove to be less about OAD success and NCAA issues and more about UNC not paying to play. I think those pointing fingers will have something to worry about. Regardless, new season and new horizons.

You want to tell us whom you have in mind here?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

The shoe companies gave money to some non-athletes at Louisville too, so it's really more of an academic scandal than an athletic one. Come on back, Rick Pitino!

I know you are joking, but I bet Pitino wishes Louisville had the bankroll to fight and delay for years and keep him around.

[Atlanta Duke]

The combination of this resolution and the Adidas investigation confirms big time college sports is a morally corrupt enterprise - have to respectfully disagree with Coack K that "the iceberg is really good"

Disappointed but not surprised the NCAA wants to keep it that way - only core belief of the NCAA is that the "student athletes" should not get paid

Raiders owner Al Davis said it best - Just Win Baby

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaxSe6Iq0L8

[superdave]

Dont like that t-shirt they are hawking on the front page.

How about a simple #UNCheat shirt?

Also, I love the OJ Simpson/Unc comparison. I'm using that til I die.

[CameronBlue]

Disappointed but not surprised the NCAA wants to keep it that way - only core belief of the NCAA is that the "student athletes" should not get paid

I hope this leads to a dissolution of the NCAA, replaced by something like a stratified version of college sports consisting of true-student athletes and sponsored teams with paid athletes who are not required to "pursue" a degree or even be enrolled. Not sure what it would look like but colleges could opt to field a sponsored team and/or a team with no athletic scholarship players. Remove all over-sight of non-revenue sports. Whatever replaces it, the NCAA, which seems like its one lawsuit away from being forced to compensate players as it is, is pimping its way to fortune on the back of slave labor. It's a joke.

[Chicago 1995]

The combination of this resolution and the Adidas investigation confirms big time college sports is a morally corrupt enterprise - have to respectfully disagree with Coack K that "the iceberg is really good"

Disappointed but not surprised the NCAA wants to keep it that way - only core belief of the NCAA is that the "student athletes" should not get paid

Today makes clear they don't have to be "student" athletes. They just have to be willing to generate a ton of revenue and see all of it go to coaches, administrators and the NCAA. The sham of amateurism laid bare by its chief advocate.

The term "student athlete" should never be used again after today.