Frosh Not So Interested In Hoops

[hallcity]

The Chronicle has done an interesting survey of the freshman class (http://specials.dukechronicle.com/2021-survey/) at Duke. Scroll down to the bottom to see the questions relating to basketball. More than a third of the freshmen had watched zero basketball games and 49% had watched only 1-10 games. Only 45% were definitely or probably going to do tenting.

We'll have to socialize them.

By the way, no questions were asked about football.

[Philadukie]

The Chronicle has done an interesting survey of the freshman class (http://specials.dukechronicle.com/2021-survey/) at Duke. Scroll down to the bottom to see the questions relating to basketball. More than a third of the freshmen had watched zero basketball games and 49% had watched only 1-10 games. Only 45% were definitely or probably going to do tenting.

We'll have to socialize them.

By the way, no questions were asked about football.

What's the previous data say? Without any historical context, it's hard to know what to make of these numbers. Is interest going down, up, about the same?

[Reilly]

Every year when a current student calls an alum friend of mine as part of the Annual Fund fundraising, my friend quizzes the student caller for $X/question: "Who is the football coach?" "Who did Duke beat to achieve x, y, z last season?" and other mostly sports-related questions (though some are just general Duke history). Cracks me up to think of the unsuspecting student, who probably envisioned an "oh, that's great, thanks for calling, do you like Duke?" conversation getting grilled. Apparently the young fluster rather easily.

[BandAlum83]

The Chronicle has done an interesting survey of the freshman class (http://specials.dukechronicle.com/2021-survey/) at Duke. Scroll down to the bottom to see the questions relating to basketball. More than a third of the freshmen had watched zero basketball games and 49% had watched only 1-10 games. Only 45% were definitely or probably going to do tenting.

We'll have to socialize them.

By the way, no questions were asked about football.

Coming into Duke I knew nothing about college basketball (sports, really) other than seeing Duke beat ND (my second choice) in the final 4. I learned fast. Joined DUMB my sophomore year and bleed Duke Blue now.

Not to worry about the frosh

[Indoor66]

Apparently the young fluster rather easily.

They will get their participation trophy and get to check off the service box won't they?

[mattman91]

They will get their participation trophy and get to check off the service box won't they?

Only if they learn how to tame their toxic masculinity.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Maybe I'm missing something, but these charts suffer from some really bad editing.

Potential majors? Just a bunch of bars and no titles/numbers. Without a key, the "where students are located" tells me nothing, except that most of the country is an ugly shade of blue. The "drank alcohol/had sex/did drugs, etc" is a total mystery. What time period are they talking about? And I'm assuming they mean being in a frat, but without better wording, it looks like lots of students don't have much interest in living. Get those kids some counselors!

As far as games watched...do they mean on TV or showed up to Cameron in person?

[DukeFanSince1990]

Only if they learn how to tame their toxic masculinity.

That's the name of my cologne.

[ipatent]

Coming into Duke I knew nothing about college basketball (sports, really) other than seeing Duke beat ND (my second choice) in the final 4. I learned fast. Joined DUMB my sophomore year and bleed Duke Blue now.

Not to worry about the frosh

I was an '83 grad as well and had a similar experience. The enthusiasm once you've been exposed is contagious!

[CameronBornAndBred]

As far as games watched...do they mean on TV or showed up to Cameron in person?
Answering my own question here after another cup of coffee. Since they are freshmen, and bball hasn't started yet....:p (I guess a few may have been to games, but not as Duke students.)

[CDu]

These numbers don't sound surprising at all. Not everyone is a sports fan. Not everyone has access to college basketball growing up. It doesn't surprise me at all that - just a month into their first semester at Duke - a large proportion of students don't yet and/or have never had any interest in college basketball or Duke basketball. I'd guess that this has been true over a MUCH longer period of time than just this year.

[Neals384]

Coming into Duke I knew nothing about college basketball (sports, really) other than seeing Duke beat ND (my second choice) in the final 4. I learned fast. Joined DUMB my sophomore year and bleed Duke Blue now.

Not to worry about the frosh

Not worried about them becoming Duke Basketball fans...some of the other answers are somewhat alarming.

[SCMatt33]

That sounds about right to me. I consider myself a pretty big fan and general sports nut, but even I probably would have fallen into the 1-10 game category when I showed up. I grew up outside of Philly, so everything in my life up to that point was focused on pro sports. I was a freshman in 05-06 and I couldn't have old you anyone on the team outside JJ and Shelden during my first few weeks. The only reason I was in the 1-10 category is that I always loved the tournament a filled out a well researched bracket every year since I was about 9 or 10.

45% for tenting actually sounds pretty good to me. IIRC, most freshman classes are about 16-1700 kids in a freshman class and 1200 tenting spots (unless those numbers have changed in the last decade). Given the higher prevalence of freshman tenting due to academic demands and general grind of tenting in later years, 700-800 freshman trying to tent sounds right when you factor in the numbers year to year that try to white tend and don't get a spot.

[UrinalCake]

Definitely need to keep in mind this is a survey of the incoming class, not current students. One point that is often brought up in discussions of fan attendance is that Duke continues to become more and more international in its student population, and kids from other countries aren't typically as interested in basketball. Which isn't to say they won't BECOME interested - I knew plenty of international students who became rapid Cameron Crazies, one of whom said it reminded him of the passion for soccer he experienced growing up.

From a quick glance at the charts, this was by far the most disturbing stat to me:

Choice of OS
Windows (PC) 30.8%
MacOS 68.7%

[sagegrouse]

Not a student of smart phone usage, but the high percentage using iPhone (82.5 percent) vs. Android (16.7 percent) is surprising. The national average is just about the reverse. From Vox Media/The Verge:

Of the 432 million smartphones sold in the last quarter, 352 million ran Android (81.7 percent) and 77 million ran iOS (17.9 percent). I shouldn't be surprised that Duke freshmen are atypical.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Not a student of smart phone usage, but the high percentage using iPhone (82.5 percent) vs. Android (16.7 percent) is surprising. The national average is just about the reverse. From Vox Media/The Verge:
I shouldn't be surprised that Duke freshmen are atypical.

I would guess that those figures are highly due to financial reasons. I can go to Walmart and get an android phone for twenty bucks. I'd assume that Duke students have deeper pockets than the national average.

[UrinalCake]

I would guess that those figures are highly due to financial reasons. I can go to Walmart and get an android phone for twenty bucks. I'd assume that Duke students have deeper pockets than the national average.


iPhones/iPads tend to be more common in the educational market while androids are much more prevalent in the business world. You can draw whatever conclusions you want from that ;)

[CPDUKEGUY24]

Maybe I'm missing something, but these charts suffer from some really bad editing.

Potential majors? Just a bunch of bars and no titles/numbers. Without a key, the "where students are located" tells me nothing, except that most of the country is an ugly shade of blue. The "drank alcohol/had sex/did drugs, etc" is a total mystery.

For most of these, if you are able to hover over the items, a box with more information appears. I am on a desktop, not sure how it appears on a mobile device.

[CameronBornAndBred]

For most of these, if you are able to hover over the items, a box with more information appears. I am on a desktop, not sure how it appears on a mobile device.

Thanks, that helps a lot.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I was an '83 grad as well and had a similar experience. The enthusiasm once you've been exposed is contagious!
I was a huge sports fan before college but was never that into college basketball. Just wasn't what I followed very closely. But when I was accepted and matriculated in '90, I caught the fever instantly. And have been sick ever since. ;)

[Duke79UNLV77]

In the old days, there wasn't just 1 student side. They were both student side, the loudest group (BOG) was right behind the visitor's bench, and the buffer (non-student) zones were very small. It's still the best atmosphere going, but it's definitely not what it used to be.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

In the old days, there wasn't just 1 student side. They were both student side, the loudest group (BOG) was right behind the visitor's bench, and the buffer (non-student) zones were very small. It's still the best atmosphere going, but it's definitely not what it used to be.

Ah... Off season must be drawing to a close. We haven't yet had this thread.

[UrinalCake]

In the old days, there wasn't just 1 student side. They were both student side...

This was the case during my years in the late 90's. I remember at the time they allowed about 1500 students in. Now I would guess it to be about half that for most games, not only are the students only on one side but they don't even fill that whole side; the corner sections are often available and are sold to the general public.

[weezie]

...Apparently the young fluster rather easily.


:D:D:D How true. All that yelling and face paint might freak them out too, poor dears.

[English]

This was the case during my years in the late 90's. I remember at the time they allowed about 1500 students in. Now I would guess it to be about half that for most games, not only are the students only on one side but they don't even fill that whole side; the corner sections are often available and are sold to the general public.

During my time in Durm in the early aughts ('01-05), both sides were student sections although only one was "the TV side," so the new downsized student section is a relatively new phenomenon.

[Steven43]

One point that is often brought up in discussions of fan attendance is that Duke continues to become more and more international in its student population, and kids from other countries aren't typically as interested in basketball.

From a quick glance at the charts, this was by far the most disturbing stat to me:

Choice of OS
Windows (PC) 30.8%
MacOS 68.7%
Why is Duke becoming 'more and more international' in its student population?

And what is disturbing about the OS info? Just curious.

[dukelifer]

The Chronicle has done an interesting survey of the freshman class (http://specials.dukechronicle.com/2021-survey/) at Duke. Scroll down to the bottom to see the questions relating to basketball. More than a third of the freshmen had watched zero basketball games and 49% had watched only 1-10 games. Only 45% were definitely or probably going to do tenting.

We'll have to socialize them.

By the way, no questions were asked about football.

Very few young people - or even other people- watch college basketball unless they have some connection to the school- kids of alums etc. Most freshman come to enjoy basketball once they see it up close and personal. Duke students have no legacy of watching football as a collective and for some alums - it is not of great interest as Duke is not a national contender as it is in basketball. That will likely not change and is one of the reasons that the football stadium will not be filled to capacity.

[sagegrouse]

Why is Duke becoming 'more and more international' in its student population?

And what is disturbing about the OS info? Just curious.

Well, I have not read the survey methodology. I do not believe the same is necessarily representative. For example, it has three times as many frosh from NC (90) than from CA (30), which seems doubtful.. i'll have to check the published stats.

[OldPhiKap]

That's the name of my cologne.

70% of the time, it works 100% of the time.

[johnb]

Why is Duke becoming 'more and more international' in its student population?

And what is disturbing about the OS info? Just curious.

I was curious about the intl students. Us news seems to put duke into the top 10 list for international students, though I couldn't get to What exactly that means. Another site listed duke as giving an average award of $53k to intl students, but i can't vouch (https://lendedu.com/blog/international-students-financial-aid-study).

Back in the day when I was a Bogger, the international kids were conspicuously wealthy, and I don't think FA was possible.

This seems preferable even if they didn't grow up to tent

[YmoBeThere]

And what is disturbing about the OS info? Just curious.

Because no one will know how to format c:\ any longer...

FWIW, I applied to several schools based on the strength of their basketball programs. This was back in the '80s.

[CDu]

Well, I have not read the survey methodology. I do not believe the same is necessarily representative. For example, it has three times as many frosh from NC (90) than from CA (30), which seems doubtful.. i'll have to check the published stats.

That doesn't seem shocking to me actually. When I was there, NC had the highest representation of any state. About 150 from NC. I want to say that NY was a close second. But I think Duke typically winds up with a much more East Coast population than West.

Edit:
Looks like the class of 2020 had 208 from NC, 168 from CA, and 153 from NY. So the 90 and 30 for NC and CA are not likely to be 100% of this year's representation, it should not be surprising that NC had more responses than CA.

Although an oversampling of students from NC (where college bball is as big as anywhere) would seemingly bias the results up, not down.

[Indoor66]

That doesn't seem shocking to me actually. When I was there, NC had the highest representation of any state. About 150 from NC. I want to say that NY was a close second. But I think Duke typically winds up with a much more East Coast population than West.

Edit:
Looks like the class of 2020 had 208 from NC, 168 from CA, and 153 from NY. So the 90 and 30 for NC and CA are not likely to be 100% of this year's representation, it should not be surprising that NC had more responses than CA.

Although an oversampling of students from NC (where college bball is as big as anywhere) would seemingly bias the results up, not down.

I was shocked, shocked! Then I looked at a map.

[sagegrouse]

Well, I have not read the survey methodology. I do not believe the same is necessarily representative. For example, it has three times as many frosh from NC (90) than from CA (30), which seems doubtful.. i'll have to check the published stats.


That doesn't seem shocking to me actually. When I was there, NC had the highest representation of any state. About 100 from NC. I want to say that NY was a close second. But I think Duke typically winds up with a much more East Coast population than West.

I dunno about the Class of 2021, CDu, but here's the Top 15 states from the Class of 2020. North Carolina is in the lead with 208, about 25 percent ahead of CA (168) and 35 percent ahead of NY (153).

I have sorted the states by "freshman enrollment rate per million of population."* NC has twice the enrollment rate of any other state (20 freshman per million of state population). (Surely these aren't all faculty brats!) MD, VA, CT and NJ are clustered together in the next group at around nine per million. They are followed by NY, SC, and FL, rounding out the top eight. The enrollment rate for highly populous CA is among the lowest.



State Duke Pop (M) Rate
NC 208 10.25 20.30
MD 58 6.07 9.56
VA 81 8.49 9.54
CT 33 3.58 9.21
NJ 80 9.00 8.89
NY 153 19.89 7.69
SC 37 5.03 7.36
FL 128 21.00 6.09
MA 35 6.87 5.09
GA 47 10.45 4.50
PA 56 12.82 4.37
CA 168 39.85 4.22
OH 42 11.65 3.61
TX 96 28.45 3.37
IL 39 12.82 3.04


* Didn't have easy access to number of HS graduates in 2017 by state.

[CDu]

I dunno about the Class of 2021, CDu, but here's the Top 15 states from the Class of 2020. North Carolina is in the lead with 208, about 25 percent ahead of CA (168) and 35 percent ahead of NY (153).

I have sorted the states by "freshman enrollment rate per million of population."* NC has twice the enrollment rate of any other state (20 freshman per million of state population). (Surely these aren't all faculty brats!) MD, VA, CT and NJ are clustered together in the next group at around nine per million. They are followed by NY, SC, and FL, rounding out the top eight. The enrollment rate for highly populous CA is among the lowest.



State Duke Pop (M) Rate
NC 208 10.25 20.30
MD 58 6.07 9.56
VA 81 8.49 9.54
CT 33 3.58 9.21
NJ 80 9.00 8.89
NY 153 19.89 7.69
SC 37 5.03 7.36
FL 128 21.00 6.09
MA 35 6.87 5.09
GA 47 10.45 4.50
PA 56 12.82 4.37
CA 168 39.85 4.22
OH 42 11.65 3.61
TX 96 28.45 3.37
IL 39 12.82 3.04


* Didn't have easy access to number of HS graduates in 2017 by state.

Yep. See my post above, edited sometime between my original (quoted here) and yours.

[devildeac]

I dunno about the Class of 2021, CDu, but here's the Top 15 states from the Class of 2020. North Carolina is in the lead with 208, about 25 percent ahead of CA (168) and 35 percent ahead of NY (153).

I have sorted the states by "freshman enrollment rate per million of population."* NC has twice the enrollment rate of any other state (20 freshman per million of state population). (Surely these aren't all faculty brats!) MD, VA, CT and NJ are clustered together in the next group at around nine per million. They are followed by NY, SC, and FL, rounding out the top eight. The enrollment rate for highly populous CA is among the lowest.



State Duke Pop (M) Rate
NC 208 10.25 20.30
MD 58 6.07 9.56
VA 81 8.49 9.54
CT 33 3.58 9.21
NJ 80 9.00 8.89
NY 153 19.89 7.69
SC 37 5.03 7.36
FL 128 21.00 6.09
MA 35 6.87 5.09
GA 47 10.45 4.50
PA 56 12.82 4.37
CA 168 39.85 4.22
OH 42 11.65 3.61
TX 96 28.45 3.37
IL 39 12.82 3.04


* Didn't have easy access to number of HS graduates in 2017 by state.

Once again disproving the myth that Duke is the University of New Jersey in Durham. :rolleyes:

[YmoBeThere]

Once again disproving the myth that Duke is the University of New Jersey in Durham. :rolleyes:

Only if you believe that those are the correct metrics to use. I prefer to use a slightly different measure and it indicates that we are still the University of New Jersey in Durham. But then my sister is an alum of Jim Valvano's alma mater. So, my measurement system may be a bit sensitive.

[devildeac]

Only if you believe that those are the correct metrics to use. I prefer to use a slightly different measure and it indicates that we are still the University of New Jersey in Durham. But then my sister is an alum of Jim Valvano's alma mater. So, my measurement system may be a bit sensitive.

Yea, I guess we'd really have to look at the KenPom stats...


;):rolleyes:

[sagegrouse]

Once again disproving the myth that Duke is the University of New Jersey in Durham. :rolleyes:

Yep. Only five percent.

Class distribution by state:


State Duke Pct.
NC 208 12%
CA 168 10%
NY 153 9%
FL 128 7%
TX 96 6%
VA 81 5%
NJ 80 5%
MD 58 3%
PA 56 3%
GA 47 3%
OH 42 2%
IL 39 2%
SC 37 2%
MA 35 2%
CT 33 2%

Total 1731 100%


Broad-based student body, we could all agree. Looks like 29 percent from the Southeast (VA thru FL); 21 percent from Middle Atlantic (NY thru MD/DC); 15 percent from the West (Colorado thru West Coast plus AK/HI); nine percent South Central (incl. Texas/OK); nine percent Midwest (incl. Plains); five percent New England; 13 percent international.

[Indoor66]

This crowd can parse anything to death.

[devildeac]

This crowd can parse anything to death.

Not true. I'd give it "only" a 60% probability...

:p

[OldPhiKap]

This crowd can parse anything to death.

Regressive analysis, please. And, of course, show your work.

Watching sports competes with a lot of things for millennials that we did not have. My teenage son never watches sports, he plays interactive computer games with his friends. Different form of entertainment.

[willowglen]

Regressive analysis, please. And, of course, show your work.

Watching sports competes with a lot of things for millennials that we did not have. My teenage son never watches sports, he plays interactive computer games with his friends. Different form of entertainment.

I agree as to today being different. I grew up in the Midwest, and came to Duke (class of 82) on athletic scholarship. I watched Big 10 basketball on the UHF channels out of Chicago because it was the best form of home entertainment for young people then. I was recruited by some Big 10 schools, but Duke's great basketball team with Gminski, Banks, Dennard and Sparnekel really peaked my interest in Duke. I can't imagine coming to Duke without some knowledge of the basketball team (and today, that means the women's team too). Duke's high level participation in Division 1 athletics make it different from the Ivy League (only Stanford is similar), and really contributes to Duke being a special place.

[Reilly]

... My teenage son never watches sports, he plays interactive computer games ...

Call me old fashioned, but I think our forms of self-absorption and time-frittering were so much more meaningful.

[OldPhiKap]

Call me old fashioned, but I think our forms of self-absorption and time-frittering were so much more meaningful.

And out music was a hell of a lot better, too. Although I will say to SonPK's credit, he is well-versed in the Stones, the Talking Heads, Zeppelin and Warren Zevon.

As for DaughterPK, we had a lovely Game Day in Athens, Ga. yesterday. She also has been to South Bend, Tallahassee, Jacksonville and of course Durham for football games. She gets it, although tv sports are not an interest. Go live, or do something else.

[Henderson]

45% of incoming freshman, before they matriculate, say they will "definitely" or "probably" tent for games, and that's indifference?

[Dev11]

Definitely need to keep in mind this is a survey of the incoming class, not current students.

What does this mean? It's late September, so there's a current class of freshmen who started a month ago, and there aren't enough high school seniors who know that they are going to Duke to survey, unless only 45% of Tre Jones and Cam Reddish plan on tenting. The first round of acceptances go out in December for the Class of 2022.

[atoomer0881]

Definitely need to keep in mind this is a survey of the incoming class, not current students.


What does this mean? It's late September, so there's a current class of freshmen who started a month ago, and there aren't enough high school seniors who know that they are going to Duke to survey, unless only 45% of Tre Jones and Cam Reddish plan on tenting. The first round of acceptances go out in December for the Class of 2022.

I think what UrinalCake was addressing was that for this current class of freshmen who started a month ago, they haven't experienced basketball yet at Duke. Once basketball season rolls around, it'll be interesting to see if this new crop of freshmen become more interested. So I think he was trying to differentiate between the new crop of freshmen and current students who have already gone through a season of Duke basketball.