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View Full Version : What OAD player do you most wish came back for a sophomore campaign?



JasonEvans
09-15-2017, 04:32 PM
Mountain Devil asked this question in the 2018 recruiting thread, so I am posting a poll.

As always, please explain your answer.

cato
09-15-2017, 04:37 PM
Mountain Devil asked this question in the 2018 recruiting thread, so I am posting a poll.

As always, please explain your answer.

Loul Deng. He would have been scary in his second year, and Demarcus Nelson would not have had to play out of position.

The OAD who did come back for his sophomore year that I am most thankful for is Grant Hill.

Bob Green
09-15-2017, 04:42 PM
Loul Deng. He would have been scary in his second year, and Demarcus Nelson would not have had to play out of position.

Ditto. My reasoning mirrors cato.

Troublemaker
09-15-2017, 04:45 PM
Ditto. My reasoning mirrors cato.

Kyrie because of the toe injury. (Giles would be up there for me as well).

richardjackson199
09-15-2017, 04:49 PM
Of course would have loved to see more of several of these guys like Deng, Tyus, and Tatum to name a few.

And I'm always happy when a Duke guy goes #1 in the draft.

But we never got to see enough Kyrie at Duke - he deserved a chance to drop 45 on the holes and have an all-american college career. Damn toe - worst injury vigil ever.

OldPhiKap
09-15-2017, 04:58 PM
A whole season of Kyrie would have been incredible.

moonpie23
09-15-2017, 05:01 PM
kyrie.....hands down..it would have been sick...


tyus stones for my #2 pick

DukeFanSince1990
09-15-2017, 05:05 PM
kyrie....hands down..it would have been sick...


tyus stones for my #2 pick


My thoughts exactly!

CDu
09-15-2017, 05:07 PM
Deng is a great answer. With him, we stand a REALLY good shot at the 2005 title.

Tyus Jones is a great answer. With him, we stand a great shot at the 2016 title, AND we then get Thornton as a frosh on time in 2017, instead of him being rushed.

Irving is also a great answer. 2012 looks a lot better with an elite PG.

Any of those three is fine by me.

cato
09-15-2017, 05:12 PM
I understand what you are saying -- Kyrie in college was unfair. He was ready to offensively dominate in the NBA.

But Loul would have dominated both ways. Back then, Duke still generated offense off defense, and Nelson and Deng would have been formidable, particularly with the Landlord as a backstop. Think of the turnovers, Deng and Demarcus finishing the break, JJ trailing . . .

Sigh.

Indoor66
09-15-2017, 05:23 PM
JJ for 3!

proelitedota
09-15-2017, 05:33 PM
Jabari Parker should not be on there. He takes our titles chances for 2014 from 100% to less than 100%. Conversely he increases our chances of NOT winning a title from 0% infinite number of times.

For me it's a close battle between Tyus and Kyrie

Mason, Ryan, Rivers, Curry, Kyrie

vs

Marshall, Amile, Ingram, GA, Tyus, with a bench of Chase, Luke, Matt, and Derrick

Close but I'll take the team returning title winners.

NSDukeFan
09-15-2017, 05:43 PM
Marques Bolden?

Jeffrey
09-15-2017, 05:50 PM
I did not base my answer on increasing Duke's chances to subsequently win. I picked Kyrie because I would have loved to have seen him play an ACC regular season. Like Harry, it seems like he never really played at Duke, relative to the other choices.

kmspeaks
09-15-2017, 06:33 PM
I bums me out that we didn't get a full season of Kyrie, but it bums me out more that JJ doesn't have a National Championship so I picked Luol because he increases the chances of that happening.

duke4ever19
09-15-2017, 07:05 PM
Jabari Parker should not be on there. He takes our titles chances for 2014 from 100% to less than 100%. Conversely he increases our chances of NOT winning a title from 0% infinite number of times.

For me it's a close battle between Tyus and Kyrie

Mason, Ryan, Rivers, Curry, Kyrie

vs

Marshall, Amile, Ingram, GA, Tyus, with a bench of Chase, Luke, Matt, and Derrick

Close but I'll take the team returning title winners.

Jabari Parker was one-and-done, was he not?

If so, he belongs on a list titled, "What OAD player do you most wish came back for a sophomore campaign?"

Tripping William
09-15-2017, 07:41 PM
I'll play Old(ish) Guy. Corey Maggette on the '00 team woulda been sick-fun to see.

jv001
09-15-2017, 08:19 PM
I got to see a glimpse of how good Kyrie was in the few games he played before the injury. He was almost unstoppable getting into the paint and finishing. He also played really good defense. Yeh, I know look at how he plays D in the NBA, but he did a great job in some big games at the first part of the year. Just my personal favorite. :cool: GoDuke!

Tripping William
09-15-2017, 08:24 PM
He'd have been paired in the backcourt with Austin Rivers. There's only one ball, y'all .....

weezie
09-15-2017, 08:31 PM
Deng...but also think about Tatum and this incoming team. Tough call but going with Luol. JJ would have had a championship.

aivroadstr
09-15-2017, 08:44 PM
Kyrie hands down! There was a lot of conversation that season that Duke would have gone undefeated.

moonpie23
09-15-2017, 08:46 PM
Deng...but also think about Tatum and this incoming team. Tough call but going with Luol. JJ would have had a championship.

yeaaaaaaah, that tatum guy.......

killerleft
09-15-2017, 08:47 PM
Tyus the Assassin. Every shot went in, didn't it? Seriously, he made some crucial shots and was a stone-cold killer.

madscavenger
09-15-2017, 09:51 PM
Kyrie. On offense, no one could stop him. But what sets him apart from the others is that no one could stop the team. When he has the ball, he makes everyone else better.

OldPhiKap
09-15-2017, 10:05 PM
Kyrie. On offense, no one could stop him. But what sets him apart from the others is that no one could stop the team. When he has the ball, he makes everyone else better.

This.

Kyrie and Austin in the backcourt a whole lot different than Austin with the ball.

rsvman
09-15-2017, 10:12 PM
Deng...but also think about Tatum and this incoming team. Tough call but going with Luol. JJ would have had a championship.

JJ didn't need Deng to get a championship. All he needed was a couple of decent refs.

JNort
09-15-2017, 10:19 PM
He'd have been paired in the backcourt with Austin Rivers. There's only one ball, y'all ....

I. DON'T. CARE.

I wanna see a full season of Kyrie and have him utterly destroy Carolina.

moonpie23
09-15-2017, 10:53 PM
I. DON'T. CARE.

I wanna see a full season of Kyrie and have him utterly destroy Carolina.

i'm pretty sure that's what Austin did..


ATTENTION....UNC FANS....DR. RIVERS IS HERE FOR YOUR PROCTOLOGY EXAM....

subzero02
09-15-2017, 10:56 PM
He'd have been paired in the backcourt with Austin Rivers. There's only one ball, y'all ...

They were awesome as backcourt teammates on the 2010 u18 national team coached by Jeff Capel... I think they would've been awesome at Duke together.

Wander
09-15-2017, 11:00 PM
I disagree with the most popular pick because I don't think we would have won the 2012 title starting Kyrie and Austin... 2011 was more suited to doing well with a healthy Kyrie because Nolan Smith and Kyle Singler were great defenders and didn't need to dominate the ball to be effective on offense.

So the pick is Luol Deng because I think it gives us the best chance of adding another national title while not jeopardizing an existing one (a good case could be made for one of the 2015 guys for the same reason).

moonpie23
09-15-2017, 11:04 PM
but!!!

having kyrie running the point for the entire season, with nolan at the 2 IS the magic combo......the problem was having nolan (who was KILLING it at point) move off his position, and into a new role at the last minute....

brevity
09-15-2017, 11:05 PM
I'm bad at DBR because I don't like to live in the past, but Luol Deng and Brandon Ingram are the only people on this list whose hypothetical sophomore years could have stopped UNC national titles.

gep
09-15-2017, 11:47 PM
I would have liked to see Tyus for another year. He was not projected to be OAD when he was recruited and came in. Kyrie... yes, it would have been fun to see him in full health (presumably second year), but he was OAD even before coming to Duke. So to me, no chance for that to happen. And going #1.. he was not coming back. Most of the others were projected OAD before they got to Duke... so to me, no chance for a second year. But for the other not projected OAD, a second year with Tyus would have been fun for me... (note that I'm not looking at championship possibilities.. just who I would have liked to see for a second year)

JNort
09-16-2017, 12:28 AM
I disagree with the most popular pick because I don't think we would have won the 2012 title starting Kyrie and Austin... 2011 was more suited to doing well with a healthy Kyrie because Nolan Smith and Kyle Singler were great defenders and didn't need to dominate the ball to be effective on offense.

So the pick is Luol Deng because I think it gives us the best chance of adding another national title while not jeopardizing an existing one (a good case could be made for one of the 2015 guys for the same reason).

I didn't look at this as which gives us the best chance at a natty but rather who I would like to have seen for another year.

CarmenWallaceWade
09-16-2017, 06:37 AM
Just because Irving seems to be the popular vote, I'll go Giles. Would love to see a healthy (or as close to it as he will be) HG. We got but a fleeting view of his potential. Still hope we can see it in the NBA.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
09-16-2017, 06:42 AM
Hey lookie, my off-hand question turned into a poll overnight! Nifty.

Have to vote Irving, but it does look like my instinct was right that most here agree.

I also would have loved another season of Winslow. I feel he would have taken everything to the next level and really made a mark.

Tatum too would have been a special player this year.

But Irving - man. That kid would have made college defenders just go home and cry. At halftime.

mgtr
09-16-2017, 06:55 AM
My top3 would be Irving, Deng, Tyus Jones. Seems to fit in with the majority of voters.

azzefkram
09-16-2017, 07:36 AM
Irving for me. I have a hard time thinking 2012 ends on such a sour note with Irving on the team. Loul, Jayson and Harry are great choices as well. Shaun Livingston doesn't fit the criteria but it would have been neat to see him in Duke blue.

weezie
09-16-2017, 08:38 AM
i'm pretty sure that's what Austin did..


ATTENTION...UNC FANS...DR. RIVERS IS HERE FOR YOUR PROCTOLOGY EXAM...

So sweet. What a golden memory....

Ultrarunner
09-16-2017, 08:50 AM
I didn't look at this as which gives us the best chance at a natty but rather who I would like to have seen for another year.

Yep, that's why I voted for Brandon Ingram - I absolutely enjoyed his time with the team.

Troublemaker
09-16-2017, 09:02 AM
I didn't look at this as which gives us the best chance at a natty but rather who I would like to have seen for another year.

Right, there seems to be at least 4 ways people are voting.

(1) Increase Duke's title count
(2) Pure enjoyment of watching the player play
(3) Regret (e.g. toe injury)
(4) Decrease UNC's title count. (I like this suggestion and hadn't thought about it that way.)

The 2s and 3s are mostly going to be Kyrie voters.

cato
09-16-2017, 09:26 AM
One other aspect that swayed my vote: of all the one and dones, Deng seemed the most reluctant to leave. Who knows the full story for any of them, but Luol sure seemed to leave only out of a sense of familial duty. If his father had not demanded that he go, would he have stayed at least one more year?

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
09-16-2017, 10:14 AM
One other aspect that swayed my vote: of all the one and dones, Deng seemed the most reluctant to leave. Who knows the full story for any of them, but Luol sure seemed to leave only out of a sense of familial duty. If his father had not demanded that he go, would he have stayed at least one more year?

I generally refrain from commenting on the moral merits and commentary on OAD players and their various pressures, but I agree that Deng felt very much like a "Duke kid," and I would have very much enjoyed to watch him blossom at Duke. One of the more surprising decisions in the OAD era, but doesn't appear to have been the wrong one.

chriso
09-16-2017, 10:32 AM
Deng really hurt but I understood. We would have won the title the next year. Maggette and Winslow would have been nice. Tatum would be unstoppable this year. But I've accepted the fact that if we get top 10 guys, chances are it's for one year.

JBDuke
09-16-2017, 11:54 AM
One option not on the list that I'd add is William Avery, and it's for a couple of reasons. First, he wasn't ready to go from a basketball perspective. Yeah, I'd have enjoyed seeing Kyrie in a Duke uni for another year, but he was ready, and so it feels completely selfish to say I'd have liked to have him back. It's the same with many of the others on the list. Tyus maybe could have used another year, maybe not. It remains to be seen about Frank. William was definitely not ready, as his NBA stats attest. He needed another year (at least) of college ball. (Whether he was prepared to continue being a college student is another question.)

Second, Duke could have really used William during the 99-00 season. We had three significant returnees that year - Battier, James, and Carrawell. We had a bunch of incoming freshman, three of which were ready to contribute that year - Boozer, Williams, and Dunleavy. Duke played largely with a six man rotation, especially down the stretch, and when Dunleavy got mono in March, it got worse. Having William return would have allowed Jason play off the ball, which was his better role in college (as we saw when Duhon arrived the next season), and would have given Duke a much-needed extra player on the perimeter, where we were especially thin.

Tripping William
09-16-2017, 12:17 PM
Except Avery wasn't OAD. He played two seasons & left after his sophomore year.

lotusland
09-16-2017, 12:23 PM
Hey lookie, my off-hand question turned into a poll overnight! Nifty.

Have to vote Irving, but it does look like my instinct was right that most here agree.

I also would have loved another season of Winslow. I feel he would have taken everything to the next level and really made a mark.

Tatum too would have been a special player this year.

But Irving - man. That kid would have made college defenders just go home and cry. At halftime.
Winslow and Ingram would have been redundant. Tyus Jones is what that team needed to be great instead of Thornton and Matt handling PG duties.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
09-16-2017, 12:52 PM
Winslow and Ingram would have been redundant. Tyus Jones is what that team needed to be great instead of Thornton and Matt handling PG duties.

Winslow would have been a defensive improvement over Ingram. Though, I had a ham sandwich once that I could say the same about.

Sure, they would have overlapped a bit. I just was thinking in terms of player I would have liked to see more of.

InSpades
09-16-2017, 01:00 PM
Maybe recruiting would have been different but... I'd love to see Jayson Tatum on next year's team. He would perfectly fill the only weak spot on next year's team.

Duvall, Allen, Tatum, Bagley, Carter. No one wants to play against that team.

Not sure if you'd need a bench, I guess someone has to play when you're up 40 at the half. Trent and Bolden will fill in quite nicely.

Tatum was very special... of course so were most of those guys listed above. Hard to go wrong.

royalblue
09-16-2017, 02:13 PM
Right, there seems to be at least 4 ways people are voting.

(1) Increase Duke's title count
(2) Pure enjoyment of watching the player play
(3) Regret (e.g. toe injury)
(4) Decrease UNC's title count. (I like this suggestion and hadn't thought about it that way.)

The 2s and 3s are mostly going to be Kyrie voters.

Yes
In order for me
Decrease unc count
Increase Duke count
Everything else does not matter
I'm sure someone
Can really break this down
but
Deng comes back and gives the best chance at
The daily double of uncch takeaway and then Duke wins
2005
If the NCAA takes that banner I might change my mind. Stones or Winslow in 16 could give a back to back but if you could tell me that Duke beats uncch at the buzzer for it all in 16 that might have been so devastating to the cheats that they might not have won 17 so
My brain hurts thinking about it but it is a good pain nonetheless 😳

JBDuke
09-16-2017, 03:01 PM
Except Avery wasn't OAD. He played two seasons & left after his sophomore year.

Well, duh. I was thinking early entry. Obviously not enough coffee.

subzero02
09-16-2017, 03:10 PM
Can someone please fix the spelling of Justise's name in the poll?

Justise not Justice

subzero02
09-16-2017, 03:16 PM
I generally refrain from commenting on the moral merits and commentary on OAD players and their various pressures, but I agree that Deng felt very much like a "Duke kid," and I would have very much enjoyed to watch him blossom at Duke. One of the more surprising decisions in the OAD era, but doesn't appear to have been the wrong one.

He was ranked #2 in his class behind some kid named Lebron. He also caught the eye of the future covfefe in chief when he attended duke/ewe in sea in Cameron. Despite his claims, I always expected him to leave early.

duke4ever19
09-16-2017, 03:40 PM
Winslow and Ingram would have been redundant. Tyus Jones is what that team needed to be great instead of Thornton and Matt handling PG duties.

I'm not so sure. Coach K would have been thrilled to have another defensive-minded presence on that court.

Oregon put up 80+ points on Duke to oust us from the tournament. Perhaps Tyus would have helped Duke keep up with Oregon offensively, but I'm not sure if he helps slow them down on the offensive end. I suspect that Winslow's size and defensive presence would have helped keep Oregon from running away from us. Winslow would have given us both offense and defense.

OZZIE4DUKE
09-16-2017, 06:06 PM
Kyrie. I still feel cheated we only got him for 8/11 games.

ncexnyc
09-16-2017, 06:28 PM
Where's the, "All of the Above" choice? There's not a bad player in that group of kids listed above.

But if you're going to make me vote for one player it comes down to either Irving or Jones. As PGs they would have been the team leader and steered their respective team. Kyrie would have taken the burden off of Rivers and I doubt the returning upperclassmen would have been hesitant to follow Kyrie's lead as much as they seemed with Rivers.

Tyrus would have been a stabilizing influence as well and would have let the other players be in their rightful position.

In the end I would have to vote for Kyrie, simply because he was so dominant and a second year of him would have been awesome.

UrinalCake
09-16-2017, 08:15 PM
None of these decisions would happen in a vacuum - if Winslow had stayed then Ingram would not have come, plus he would have probably gone to UNC, so in all likeliness that would have given them a title in 2016. Similarly, if Ingram stayed then Tatum would not have come. If Tyus stayed then Derryck would not have reclassified, and maybe he comes a year later or maybe we decide to go harder after Dennis Smith instead (we were recruiting both him and Derryck for 2015 but had to choose Derryck because he was able to reclassify).

Buy assuming there are no secondary consequences, my vote has to go to Tyus. Lack of a PG was our biggest issue in 2015-2016 and I think he would have made a huge difference. Kyrie is the sentimental pick but I do think he and Rivers might have had a hard time sharing the backcourt, plus our biggest need that year was at the wing. We had Rivers, Seth Curry, and Tyler Thornton all starting, with Thornton often guarding the opposing 3. Up front we were set, with all three Plumlees plus Kelly. So while Kyrie obviously makes every team better, I think Tyus coming back would have made a bigger difference. And as a separate note, anyone else on the list coming back would have opened the door for negative recruiting, i.e. opposing coaches saying why didn't Duke develop the player as a OAD? But Tyus coming back wouldn't have been criticized as much, because his physical profile didn't fit someone ready for the NBA.

duke4ever19
09-16-2017, 09:29 PM
None of these decisions would happen in a vacuum.

Buy assuming there are no secondary consequences.

Correct. I think you'd have to assume your latter statement to even have this discussion. To not do so opens up a billion possibilities that just undermine the whole thought-experiment.

You are correct, though, in a more realistic world, if Winslow stays, the likelihood of Ingram coming goes down -- at least you'd assume so, (but again, who could possibly know except these two players, and even then, how do they know that in this alternate universe, K convinces both players that they can coexist on the same team?), as do the rest of these OAD players if their particular position is still filled by another OAD who didn't leave, but stayed for this hypothetical sophomore year.


Basically, this is a typical summer "the season can't get here soon enough" thread.

gep
09-16-2017, 10:43 PM
Correct. I think you'd have to assume your latter statement to even have this discussion. To not do so opens up a billion possibilities that just undermine the whole thought-experiment.

You are correct, though, in a more realistic world, if Winslow stays, the likelihood of Ingram coming goes down -- at least you'd assume so, (but again, who could possibly know except these two players, and even then, how do they know that in this alternate universe, K convinces both players that they can coexist on the same team?), as do the rest of these OAD players if their particular position is still filled by another OAD who didn't leave, but stayed for this hypothetical sophomore year.


Basically, this is a typical summer "the season can't get here soon enough" thread.

On the most recent DBR Podcast, they talked about this... that it seems that the basketball recruiting world is changing OAD/s from playing against each other... to playing *with* each other. And maybe Jahlil and Tyus really started this trend...:cool:

UrinalCake
09-16-2017, 10:49 PM
...maybe Jahlil and Tyus really started this trend...:cool:

Mike Conley and Greg Oden beg to differ, as do the Fab Five.

drummerdevil
09-17-2017, 07:27 AM
I would have loved to see a sophomore Frank Jackson this year. With him, coach K is forced to play a deeper rotation, and I'm all for that.

lotusland
09-17-2017, 08:49 AM
I would have loved to see a sophomore Frank Jackson this year. With him, coach K is forced to play a deeper rotation, and I'm all for that.

I wouldn't pick Jackson over Tyus in this poll but yeah, Jackson leaving was a huge disappointment. I don't blame him for leaving but it's a bummer and highlights how hard it is to recruit guys who can contribute yet stay around a couple or three years. Tyus and Frank both seemed like multi-year players.

The_Dukester
09-17-2017, 09:03 AM
One of the great Duke teams that never happened was in 2005. Not only did Deng leave early, but Shaun Livingston had committed to Duke and decided very late to enter the NBA draft. I don't think the Duke coaches expected either of those losses. The 2005 team would've been one of the best Duke teams ever.
PG - Shaun Livingston
SG - Daniel Ewing
SG - JJ Redick
F - L. Deng
C - S. Williams
Bench
S. Dockery
D. Nelson
S. Randolph
L. Melchionni
R. Love
D. McClure

A lot more talent and lineup flexibility than the roster coach K ended up with, which ended up being one of his best coaching jobs. I believe this team keeps UNC from winning in 2005. So if I could have Deng for a 2nd year AND Livingston for one, I'm all in!

elvis14
09-17-2017, 01:17 PM
I voted for Deng and it's actually an easy choice. It isn't just that he was good, it's that he was exactly what we needed that next year to win a championship.



JJ didn't need Deng to get a championship. All he needed was a couple of decent refs.

Don't even get me started on the UConn or the LSU game....I sound like and NC State fan every time I start talking about those 2 games.

LasVegas
09-17-2017, 02:14 PM
Give me another healthy year of Brian Zoubek!!!! An absolute all time favorite of mine.

Spanarkel
09-18-2017, 08:23 AM
Bill Jackman. He shot 55% (5/9) from 3 and 100% (10/10) from the charity stripe in his one year at Duke, then went on to a modest career at Nebraska(~6ppg). Still remember hearing rumors as a student that he had some Bird-like skills.

English
09-18-2017, 12:58 PM
Mike Conley and Greg Oden beg to differ, as do the Fab Five.

Except, are they really starting a trend if the trend doesn't, ya know, start after them? If they started the trend, we wouldn't be talking about the trend STARTING in a 2017 podcast.

They may have been two earlier examples, and they are almost certainly not the only ones or even the earliest ones, but it's tough to argue they started a trend of super-recruits teaming together if that trend is only now taking firm hold in CBB. I'd argue it's the NBA super teams that are actually most responsible, but this is DBR, so I'll throw a bone to our 2015 natty champs.

bob blue devil
09-18-2017, 01:52 PM
Except, are they really starting a trend if the trend doesn't, ya know, start after them? If they started the trend, we wouldn't be talking about the trend STARTING in a 2017 podcast.

They may have been two earlier examples, and they are almost certainly not the only ones or even the earliest ones, but it's tough to argue they started a trend of super-recruits teaming together if that trend is only now taking firm hold in CBB. I'd argue it's the NBA super teams that are actually most responsible, but this is DBR, so I'll throw a bone to our 2015 natty champs.

there might have been a trend in the late 60s/early 70s of the best players all winding up on the best team...

fidel
09-18-2017, 07:07 PM
Not really in the spirit of the thread but I would have loved to have seen Taylor King get some religion and learn to work hard on his game. What a shooter.

DavidBenAkiva
09-18-2017, 10:47 PM
It would have been fun to see Kyrie stay for a full season, but my answer is Tyus Jones. We haven't really gotten to see Tyus play much in the NBA. I contend that Jones on that 2015-16 team would have had an All-American caliber season and positioned himself much better (in a much weaker draft) for success in the NBA had he returned.

PG: Tyus Jones
SG: Grayson Allen
SF: Brandon Ingram
PF: Amile Jefferson
C: Marshall Plumlee

Bench: Matt Jones, Luke Kennard

The team would not have been deep at all with only 7 players getting significant minutes, but that lineup would have been a perfect mix player and talent had Jones stayed and Jefferson remained healthy all year. I really thought with that frontcourt, the team could have been as good as anyone and a legitimate Final Four contender. Hell, the team limped into the Sweet 16 with 60% of that starting lineup. How good would it have been with Jones and Jefferson in tow? I felt like Jones going to the NBA and the injury bug robbed us of a great team (and surprising counter to the one-and-done narrative given the mix of experience on that particular roster).

elvis14
09-19-2017, 07:52 AM
It would have been fun to see Kyrie stay for a full season, but my answer is Tyus Jones. We haven't really gotten to see Tyus play much in the NBA. I contend that Jones on that 2015-16 team would have had an All-American caliber season and positioned himself much better (in a much weaker draft) for success in the NBA had he returned.

PG: Tyus Jones
SG: Grayson Allen
SF: Brandon Ingram
PF: Amile Jefferson
C: Marshall Plumlee

Bench: Matt Jones, Luke Kennard

The team would not have been deep at all with only 7 players getting significant minutes, but that lineup would have been a perfect mix player and talent had Jones stayed and Jefferson remained healthy all year. I really thought with that frontcourt, the team could have been as good as anyone and a legitimate Final Four contender. Hell, the team limped into the Sweet 16 with 60% of that starting lineup. How good would it have been with Jones and Jefferson in tow? I felt like Jones going to the NBA and the injury bug robbed us of a great team (and surprising counter to the one-and-done narrative given the mix of experience on that particular roster).

Had Luol Deng returned:

PG: Daniel Ewing
SG: JJ Redick
SF: Demarcus Nelson
PF: Shav (and others)
C: Sheldon Williams

Bench: Reggie Love, Sean Dockery, Lee Melchioni, David McClure, Patrick Davidson

Without Deng that team went 27-6, losing in the sweet 16 to MSU who in turn lost to the Cheaters (playing with McCants and other players who shouldn't have been eligible). Didn't we end up playing Lee at the 3 and Demarcus at the 4? Was that also the year Demarcus was hurt and wearing an 18 lb. ankle brace/weight?

UrinalCake
09-19-2017, 12:09 PM
Here's another wrinkle: if Tyus had stayed, would Duke still have developed the reputation as having become a "OAD factory" in the mold of Kentucky? Whenever people talk about Duke now relying on OAD's, they always point to 2015. Everybody knew that Oak was only staying for a year, but Tyus and Winslow weren't considered OAD guys when they were recruited. So people have sort of rewritten history. If Tyus had stayed then Winslow would have been the only real surprise. And we would have basically just had one OAD each other season up until 2016-2017. Nobody was calling us a OAD factory when Kyrie, Austin, and Jabari each left. It was the combined effect of having three guys leave and winning a title that season that created the narrative that we rely solely on OAD's. So I think the perception would have been very different had Tyus stayed.

kAzE
09-19-2017, 12:35 PM
I voted for Kyrie in the poll, but I actually would have preferred if he could have just played his entire freshman year on that 2011 team. That team IMO was one of the best Duke teams of all time if he played the whole season.

After listening to the recent DBR podcast in which they discussed this thread, I'd have to go with Luol Deng or Jayson Tatum. Tatum on this year's team would be unbelievable. He'd certainly solve the small forward issue that we have, and it would be probably one of the biggest and most physically dominant teams in the country, which we already are, but even bigger and more dominant.

Deng on the '04-'05 team with Redick and Williams would have been spectacular as well, but I somewhat disagree with JasonEvans's idea (from the podcast) that it would have easily won us the championship. We had 2 great players in Williams and Redick, but that team lacked a strong play making point guard. Our top guards were Redick, Ewing, Dockery, and a freshman DeMarcus Nelson. Deng certainly would have helped with our overall athleticism and versatility, since we were playing Melchionni over 20 minutes per game that year, and we would have likely been a #1 seed, but it's hard to say with any certainty that we would have won it all. We had a stronger team Luol's freshman year because we still had Duhon.

superdave
09-19-2017, 02:44 PM
Loul Deng. He would have been scary in his second year, and Demarcus Nelson would not have had to play out of position.

The OAD who did come back for his sophomore year that I am most thankful for is Grant Hill.

I want to say we had a similar discuss on this board in the last 5-6 years.

Deng is the obvious choice because Duke had just lost in the Final Four but were bringing back everyone but Duhon (Redick, Williams, Ewing, Shav). they were also allegedly bringing in Shaun Livingston and some Kardashian guy, but those two never arrived.

The middle part of the decade was very frustrating but Deng could have led them to the 2005 title, which Unc will soon be vacating anyways.

DevilFalcon
09-19-2017, 07:29 PM
I don't see how anyone can vote for anyone else. He was leaps and bounds beyond every other player during those 11 games. A sophomore Kyrie could team up with me and a few of my friends and we could win a championship. Come on, there is no other option here.

elvis14
09-19-2017, 08:16 PM
I don't see how anyone can vote for anyone else. He was leaps and bounds beyond every other player during those 11 games. A sophomore Kyrie could team up with me and a few of my friends and we could win a championship. Come on, there is no other option here.

Why are there other options besides Deng? A sophomore Deng coupled with JJ and Sheldon and we would have won a championship. Look I love Kyrie and all but as I said before....the choice is Deng and it's not even a hard decision. Recency bias?

budwom
09-20-2017, 07:14 AM
Jim Fitzsimmons

Troublemaker
09-20-2017, 07:26 AM
Tatum on this year's team would be unbelievable. He'd certainly solve the small forward issue that we have, and it would be probably one of the biggest and most physically dominant teams in the country, which we already are, but even bigger and more dominant.

This is a semantics issue, but I can't call Gary Trent an "issue" at small forward. He's going to be better than 95% of Div-1 SFs, and among Power 5 SFs, I think he's still going to be better than 75% of them.

Our issue is probably perimeter depth, which Tatum WOULD solve by moving Trent to the bench.

sagegrouse
09-20-2017, 07:37 AM
Why are there other options besides Deng? A sophomore Deng coupled with JJ and Sheldon and we would have won a championship. Look I love Kyrie and all but as I said before...the choice is Deng and it's not even a hard decision. Recency bias?

Deng is a reasonable choice, and there was evidence at the time that he wanted to return. His family in the UK needed the income.

Man, what would 2015 have looked like if Jabari Parker had stayed for a second year? If one let the random results replenish, it might have been two undefeated teams in the finals.

I personally would have liked to see Maggette return for the 2000 season (and put off this one-and-done nonsense for five years). This team, which made the Elite Eight, was 29-5 and 15-1 in the ACC without him. Let's see.... Battier, Maggette, Carrawell and Nate James joined by freshmen JWill, Boozer and Dunleavy.

Edouble
09-20-2017, 07:45 AM
Deng is a reasonable choice, and there was evidence at the time that he wanted to return. His family in the UK needed the income.

Man, what would 2015 have looked like if Jabari Parker had stayed for a second year? If one let the random results replenish, it might have been two undefeated teams in the finals.

I personally would have liked to see Maggette return for the 2000 season (and put off this one-and-done nonsense for five years). This team, which made the Elite Eight, was 29-5 and 15-1 in the ACC without him. Let's see... Battier, Maggette, Carrawell and Nate James joined by freshmen JWill, Boozer and Dunleavy.

Actually that team made the Sweet 16. We got by Kansas in a tough game to make it out of the first weekend, then got beaten by Florida in the next round.

lotusland
09-20-2017, 07:59 AM
This is a semantics issue, but I can't call Gary Trent an "issue" at small forward. He's going to be better than 95% of Div-1 SFs, and among Power 5 SFs, I think he's still going to be better than 75% of them.

Our issue is probably perimeter depth, which Tatum WOULD solve by moving Trent to the bench.

Tatum would add another shooter but probably but not a huge upgrade over Trent from deep. I like Tatum but there is only one ball. This team is loaded with scorers. I don't see 2nd year Tatum having the same impact as Deng, Kyrie or Tyus especially if Bagley is as good as advertised.

jipops
09-20-2017, 08:22 AM
This one was tough for me but after mulling it over I had to go with Deng. It's a tough choice because Kyrie is arguably the most talented guard that has ever suited up at Duke (as brief as it was). Actually, I would say he is hands down the most talented. Putting him in as the pg on the 2012 team would likely have made that team an offensive juggernaut but there would be one ball to share with gunners like Kyrie, Rivers, & Curry. Kryie maybe would have helped a little defensively but of course hard to say how much. How amped would the big guys be on D after never touching the ball on the offensive end?

I went with Deng because the 2005 team without him was probably Duke's all time best defensive squad. With him it would have been a historically great defensive team in college basketball. Deng would have very likely been a matchup nightmare for any team on offense as well. Aside from this, there is the Shaun Livingston 'what-if' as well.

So my reasoning is that while Kyrie was the greater talent, I think Luol would have actually had the greater impact for his team by just a little bit more.

Justice is my third because having him would have mitigated the loss of Amile that season, even more so than Tyus. But then again, would we have landed Ingram if Justice had stayed?

UrinalCake
09-20-2017, 08:29 AM
Man, what would 2015 have looked like if Jabari Parker had stayed for a second year? If one let the random results replenish, it might have been two undefeated teams in the finals.

That would have been an amazing team, with Parker able to play at his more natural 4 position and Justice able to play at the 3. Defensively we'd still have a lot of issues, but offensively we'd be impossible to stop.

Along those lines, what would 2010 have looked like if Elliot Williams hadn't transferred, Gerald Henderson hadn't left for the draft, and John Wall had chosen to come?

atoomer0881
09-20-2017, 08:52 AM
Man, what would 2015 have looked like if Jabari Parker had stayed for a second year? If one let the random results replenish, it might have been two undefeated teams in the finals.


That would have been an amazing team, with Parker able to play at his more natural 4 position and Justice able to play at the 3. Defensively we'd still have a lot of issues, but offensively we'd be impossible to stop.

Along those lines, what would 2010 have looked like if Elliot Williams hadn't transferred, Gerald Henderson hadn't left for the draft, and John Wall had chosen to come?

Honestly, I'll take a 2015 team that went 35-4 and won it all, and a 2010 team that went 35-5 and won it all over wondering what our team would have looked like had Jabari or Elliot/Gerald stayed for those respective squads. I'm always of the opinion that if we won it all without them, then we didn't need them. No one says the addition of Jabari would have made that 2015 team better, because other players that stepped up might have not had the chance to shine. That goes for any player staying or leaving. For example, if Rasheed doesn't get booted, then Grayson probably doesn't play as much, and if Grayson doesn't play as much, then he doesn't come in and win us a championship. If Jabari stayed, then maybe Justise doesn't develop into the player he did.

I'd much rather imagine what would have had happened if players had stayed for the years that we didn't win it all. Like having Justise and Tyus play with a sophomore Grayson and freshman Ingram and seniors Amile and Marshall. That's a team I don't mind playing "what ifs" with.

sagegrouse
09-20-2017, 09:15 AM
So my reasoning is that while Kyrie was the greater talent, I think Luol would have actually had the greater impact for his team by just a little bit more.


I didn't consider Kyrie. My only wish was to have him play one full season, instead of 11 games.

Also, in other news, Ms. Sage votes for Justise Winslow

DevilFalcon
09-20-2017, 04:36 PM
How amped would the big guys be on D after never touching the ball on the offensive end?


Go look up Mason Plumlee's stats in those first games with Kyrie. I think the he and Kelly would have been ecstatic to be fed the ball for easy points all season.