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Dev11
09-05-2017, 09:40 AM
With the DBR Podcast coming up on our fourth season, the hosts have collectively decided to start offering advertising space on our show. We mentioned this briefly on an episode and in a thread over the summer, but with a bit more clarity, we want to now offer the community the chance to advertise your businesses on the podcast.

If you have a business that you think would benefit from marketing to Duke fans who listen to our show, send any of the hosts a PM and we'll start working out the details. Those hosts, in case you weren't sure, are JasonEvans (Jason), blazindw (Donald), and Dev11 (Sam, that would be me). We're also reaching out to Duke and Durham related businesses about this, so if you want to put us in touch with any such people, by all means send us a message.

As always, if you have any feedback for the show or this developing plan, feel free to comment on any podcast thread or message us. We like doing the show, but we want to know it's working for our listeners.

Go Duke, beat NU.

-Sam

JasonEvans
09-05-2017, 11:57 AM
To be clear, we are not going to change the podcast much at all to make this happen. It will not become an ad-filled mess where we break every ten minutes to plug something random. We are not interested in changing the product in any meaningful way. All we really want is for Sam to be able to buy himself s nice beer or two, Donald wants some scratch for the latest Duke swag, and Jason needs to take his wife out to dinner every month or two so she stops complaining about how much time he spends on this silly thing.

Indoor66
09-05-2017, 12:26 PM
I thought DBR had a policy against commercialization. Has that changed and now we are going to have promotion of for profit startups for the 2nd time? May we have clarification?

Dev11
09-05-2017, 12:53 PM
I thought DBR had a policy against commercialization. Has that changed and now we are going to have promotion of for profit startups for the 2nd time? May we have clarification?

We've been given initial permission to do this bit of entrepreneurship for the time being, and all of the ads will be subject to our review and approval. We won't read ads that we're not comfortable with.

blazindw
09-05-2017, 01:18 PM
We've been given initial permission to do this bit of entrepreneurship for the time being, and all of the ads will be subject to our review and approval. We won't read ads that we're not comfortable with.

To piggyback, this will not be the "DBR Podcast, Presented by ______" or anything like that. They will be 1-2 ad reads per episode that we promise won't be intrusive or over the top.

Indoor66
09-05-2017, 02:54 PM
Not responsive to the questions asked. Policy change?

JasonEvans
09-05-2017, 03:08 PM
Not responsive to the questions asked. Policy change?

The three of us are not part of the DBR ownership so we cannot speak to the site's policies. I would imagine the site owners would evaluate any request on its merits and see if it meets with the community standards. As for the boards, we have a longstanding policy that if you are a regular contributor/member of the community and the natural course of your posts causes you to promote some outside venture or website, that is not a problem. We don't allow folks to come here and just post links to other sites or attempt to drive traffic or money from the DBR, but if you are someone who is already a part of the community, there is a lot, lot, lot more leeway.

Does that make sense and answer your question?

-Jason "the DBR quite clearly has ads on the website -- putting a few non-objectionable ads on the podcast is not at all outside the mission or scope of what happens here, IMO" Evans

Billy Dat
09-05-2017, 03:41 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaCHH5D74Fs

mattman91
09-05-2017, 03:49 PM
Why not crowd fund with a platform like Patreon?

jimsumner
09-05-2017, 04:05 PM
Please don't let Larry Culpepper and Dr. Pepper anywhere near your Podcast.

JasonEvans
09-05-2017, 04:31 PM
Why not crowd fund with a platform like Patreon?

We thought about that but rather than ask all of you to give us a hand out, we thought it would be better to pursue a more traditional advertising route. Personally, I would rather listen to one or two :15 or :30 ads versus stroking a check out of my own pocket.

Also, our hope is that we will get advertisers who are actually sorta relevant to the Duke community so it could almost enhance the podcast. Maybe that is me being overly optimistic.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
09-05-2017, 05:15 PM
We thought about that but rather than ask all of you to give us a hand out, we thought it would be better to pursue a more traditional advertising route. Personally, I would rather listen to one or two :15 or :30 ads versus stroking a check out of my own pocket.

Also, our hope is that we will get advertisers who are actually sorta relevant to the Duke community so it could almost enhance the podcast. Maybe that is me being overly optimistic.

What is the cost of said ads?

Dev11
09-05-2017, 05:22 PM
What is the cost of said ads?

We're still working on that. We've found different sources telling us what standard rates are, but I think we're waiting to see what kind of interest we get from the community before deciding anything for sure.

JasonEvans
09-05-2017, 05:31 PM
What is the cost of said ads?

https://i.imgur.com/NDBB96K.png

But we would settle for 2 quality beers, 1 swaggy hat, and a decent dinner ;)

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
09-05-2017, 05:31 PM
We're still working on that. We've found different sources telling us what standard rates are, but I think we're waiting to see what kind of interest we get from the community before deciding anything for sure.

Okay, I guess the better question is how much are you trying to raise?

JasonEvans
09-05-2017, 06:19 PM
Okay, I guess the better question is how much are you trying to raise?

We have modest goals. We'd like to make enough money so we could quit our full time jobs and travel to Duke sporting events all over the country and do pods live, on location, at all of them.

But, that probably ain't gonna happen. I think we'd be beyond thrilled if we netted $50 per podcast at this point. Once we divided that up, we would still be making well under minimum wage for this effort, but at least it would be something. Who knows, in 6 months we might even be able to buy better editing equipment and mikes.

Pghdukie
09-05-2017, 06:29 PM
These people work their butts off, basically for nothing but the love of Duke Athletics. If they want to raise a few $$ for a couple of cold ones - go for it !

sagegrouse
09-05-2017, 06:45 PM
These people work their butts off, basically for nothing but the love of Duke Athletics. If they want to raise a few $$ for a couple of cold ones - go for it !

Amen.

Indoor66
09-05-2017, 07:19 PM
My concern is the same as the last time: slippery slope. We have funded desired contributers in the past through DBR fundraising.

UrinalCake
09-05-2017, 09:14 PM
You might have some competition - I hear the Dean Dome is going to start selling advertising space up in their rafters. They expect to have a lot of empty room up there pretty soon.

MrPoon
09-05-2017, 11:21 PM
You might have some competition - I hear the Dean Dome is going to start selling advertising space up in their rafters. They expect to have a lot of empty room up there pretty soon.

It could be tricky finding adequate space, I heard their ceiling is their roof.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
09-06-2017, 02:36 AM
These people work their butts off, basically for nothing but the love of Duke Athletics. If they want to raise a few $$ for a couple of cold ones - go for it !

To be clear I have zero problem with the concept at all. I was genuinely curious about the specifics.

gep
09-06-2017, 04:08 AM
JJ does this on his podcasts. One or two per hour. He reads the ad. And the ads appear to be fully endorsed by him. So not random make money stuff. Ok with me...

Indoor66
09-06-2017, 07:31 AM
JJ does this on his podcasts. One or two per hour. He reads the ad. And the ads appear to be fully endorsed by him. So not random make money stuff. Ok with me...

JJ is a business unto himself. He built his own brand and then attracted ads. Apples and oranges.

UrinalCake
09-06-2017, 08:47 AM
JJ doesn't run his podcast on his own. Last season it was under the umbrella of The Vertical which I believe is owned by Adrien Wojonowski (sp?). This season in his first episode he announced he had moved to a new platform, don't remember which one. But the parent company handles all the advertising.

Billy Dat
09-06-2017, 08:52 AM
JJ doesn't run his podcast on his own. Last season it was under the umbrella of The Vertical which I believe is owned by Adrien Wojonowski (sp?). This season in his first episode he announced he had moved to a new platform, don't remember which one. But the parent company handles all the advertising.

Yes - he is now part of "Uninterrupted" which is Maverick Carter which is, ultimately, Lebron.

OldPhiKap
09-06-2017, 09:10 AM
"Red Wigglers -- the Cadillac of worms"

flyingdutchdevil
09-06-2017, 10:56 AM
JJ is a business unto himself. He built his own brand and then attracted ads. Apples and oranges.

I'm with Indoor66 on this. I have no problem with advertisements. I have no problem with making money. I find it a little dubious that the rules are so loose and not clear-cut.

I'm sure this isn't the case, but the optics look like this: "We are moderators. We run this forum. And because we have a podcast on DBR, we're using the platform to make a few bucks." Again, I'm sure that's not what it is, but it sure looks like that.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
09-06-2017, 11:00 AM
I'm with Indoor66 on this. I have no problem with advertisements. I have no problem with making money. I find it a little dubious that the rules are so loose and not clear-cut.

I'm sure this isn't the case, but the optics look like this: "We are moderators. We run this forum. And because we have a podcast on DBR, we're using the platform to make a few bucks." Again, I'm sure that's not what it is, but it sure looks like that.

Not the optics I see, but I guess I can see your perspective. They have created something of value and would like to be moderately compensated for their time. I suspect if the folks who had created the podcast weren't moderators, it would be the same?

As far as trying to calculate the value of an ad, as someone who spends a lot of time trying to calculate the Return on Investment for advertising for my own business, my first question would be "how many listeners do you usually get?" and "where are they from?"

Digging into some details, but I think any potential advertiser would ask these pertinent questions.

Indoor66
09-06-2017, 11:03 AM
Not the optics I see, but I guess I can see your perspective. They have created something of value and would like to be moderately compensated for their time. I suspect if the folks who had created the podcast weren't moderators, it would be the same?

As far as trying to calculate the value of an ad, as someone who spends a lot of time trying to calculate the Return on Investment for advertising for my own business, my first question would be "how many listeners do you usually get?" and "where are they from?"

Digging into some details, but I think any potential advertiser would ask these pertinent questions.

Please don't conflate the issue of making money with how much money you make. You don't get a little pregnant.

Jeffrey
09-06-2017, 11:11 AM
Please don't conflate the issue of making money with how much money you make. You don't get a little pregnant.

I think the "how much money" is relevant from the perspective of "why introduce a slippery slope for less than minimum wage?". I'm not saying I'm in favor of a slippery slope, but introducing this concept, with the expectation of making less than minimum wage, IMO, does not seem prudent.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
09-06-2017, 11:13 AM
Please don't conflate the issue of making money with how much money you make. You don't get a little pregnant.

I am not conflating anything. You seem to be conveniently ignoring the first paragraph of my post.

CameronBornAndBred
09-06-2017, 11:24 AM
I don't see much wrong with what y'all are doing, but I do get the perspective of those with objections, especially since you are in unique positions as moderators. If this were politics, some ethics person from the opposing side would be screaming foul.
Might I suggest that instead of using the forums to generate interest, you do so during the podcast itself?
That way it isn't as much of a board issue, and you are addressing your target audience directly. Or use other ways of doing it, such as your social media accounts. I'd assume that you tell people that follow you elsewhere, "Hey, tune in to hear me!"
Just my two cents. (If I elect to advertise my gallery, I expect a $.02 discount.)

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
09-06-2017, 11:25 AM
I don't see much wrong with what y'all are doing, but I do get the perspective of those with objections, especially since you are in unique positions as moderators. If this were politics, some ethics person from the opposing side would be screaming foul.
Might I suggest that instead of using the forums to generate interest, you do so during the podcast itself?
That way it isn't as much of a board issue, and you are addressing your target audience directly. Or use other ways of doing it, such as your social media accounts. I'd assume that you tell people that follow you elsewhere, "Hey, tune in to hear me!"
Just my two cents.

This seems like a fair way to deflect what is (apparently) a divisive topic. I salute your creative thinking.

cato
09-06-2017, 11:45 AM
You don't get a little pregnant.

No? Then DBR has a whole family by now.

JasonEvans
09-06-2017, 12:11 PM
Might I suggest that instead of using the forums to generate interest, you do so during the podcast itself?
That way it isn't as much of a board issue, and you are addressing your target audience directly. Or use other ways of doing it, such as your social media accounts. I'd assume that you tell people that follow you elsewhere, "Hey, tune in to hear me!"
Just my two cents. (If I elect to advertise my gallery, I expect a $.02 discount.)

Well, that would be fine except we really do these with the board in mind. We solicit opinions and questions from the folks who post here and we often reference stuff happening on the boards in the pod. To some extent the pod is an audio extension of the boards. We have had several members of the boards as guests on the pod too. To be clear, we don't see the boards as a means of promoting the pod as much as we see it as a way of interacting with our audience. Losing that would be a significant loss to us, in my opinion.

As for us being moderators, the entire mod team often talks about recusing ourselves from conversations in which we are active participants. If there was a problem with a pod-related thread, there are several other mods who could and would deal with it.

To be clear, there have been other regular members of the DBR who have let the community know about projects they were connected to. The owners and the mods have always allowed this for activities that were connected in some way to Duke and for community members who are active contributors. Put another way, if this was coming from recognized posters who were not moderators, it would absolutely be allowed and even encouraged by the owners and moderators.

Lastly, it is worth noting that Sam, Donald, and I have taken this to the site owners as well as the head of the mod team and none of them had any problems with it. We certainly don't have the juice to sway those folks into a decision that they would otherwise feel would be bad for the community and for the DBR. And, I'll be honest, no one even begins to have a problem with JJ or John Scheyer or anyone else putting ads on their podcast. The idea that Sam, Donald, and I should be held to a different standard because we happen to also volunteer our time to be moderators of this forum seems more than bit unfair to me.

Jason "I do appreciate the honest feedback. It is why we come here and practice absolute transparency with this effort" Evans

OldPhiKap
09-06-2017, 12:42 PM
I'm fine with it FWIW. Good luck, and thanks for the hard work that goes into the podcasts.

JasonEvans
09-06-2017, 12:52 PM
It was just pointed out to me that the concerns here are with us asking folks if they want to advertise, not with the concept of the pod having ads on it. I had misunderstood that. My bad. Please know that we will not solicit ads via this site any further. In fact, I think we should maybe shut down this thread and delete it so there will be no confusion.

I'll let it stay up for a little longer in case folks have additional thoughts to post and then I will probably get rid of it. Thanks again for all the feedback!

devil84
09-06-2017, 01:24 PM
I see a pretty big difference between the weekly podcast and the boards.

To fund the boards, we run a fundraiser every year, hope people will click through the Amazon link, and there are ads on the site - particularly the front page, courtesy of SBNation, who is the umbrella owner. Our forum is different than the SBNation discussion boards. There are associated costs with that as well as compensating the writers on the front page. Nobody's getting rich off of this; I have no idea on the financials but I hope those compensated by DBR at least cover their costs. All moderators, including myself as an administrator, are completely uncompensated (well, we DO get the satisfaction of moderating a wonderful community). Disclaimer: as an admin, I make some of the changes to the code; I don't have any role on the front page nor do I make any decisions on top-level management decisions or deal with financials in any way.

Enter the podcast. A group of mods got together to put together an additional product with the blessing of the site owners. It's become a popular product. It's designed to be a companion to DBR, based heavily on the discussion that takes place on these boards, with ideas for the podcast solicited from our readers. These guys spend an amazing amount of time doing this, and a few bucks tossed their way seems appropriate (we're talking upgrading the editing ability, or a couple of beers, Duke swag, or a dinner to appease the spouse here, not anything close to true compensation).

OK, back to the board rules. We have strict rules about starting threads advertising your business/site/blog because we don't want this to be littered with "come to my site and read/chat/buy my stuff." You can read/chat here, not somewhere else; you're probably not interested in buying something, or you'd be elsewhere trying to buy that something. We do let people advertise their business *IF* it relates somehow to an already established discussion. There are judgment calls, and moderators have had numerous discussions about how to handle a number of individual posts. A LOT of spam gets deleted from this site from first-time posters (thanks to -jk's tireless work). While we have those rules in place, we have had requests to relax those rules and some cranky complaints when we have removed advertising. There is a desire for some members of the DBR community to advertise to the DBR community. We have MANY members who graciously accept this rule and don't advertise, even though they'd like to.

The boards work on content that published first and moderated after it's posted. Pretty much anybody can register and begin posting, even if the person posting doesn't care a whit about sports, let alone Duke Basketball. There are some good policies and procedures in place so you don't have to read about "male enhancement" products or other products that don't appeal to this audience. In contrast, the podcast is completely moderated content. In this way, we can determine if an ad is appropriate for our audience. If you have to listen to advertising, wouldn't you rather listen to advertising that is from a fellow reader's business? Or how about a business that's the Official Product of the Blue Devils? Or, would you prefer some generic advertising? (Remember when UNC's online MBA program was advertising on DBR? What about the ones with gratuitous cleavage? The comments we received weren't pretty.)

Jason, Sam, and Donald would really like to upgrade their ability to provide an even better product. And a little something for their effort seems only fair, too. The hour or so of podcast that you listen to each week takes much longer to plan and produce. How would your spouse feel if you spent every Sunday talking basketball with your buddies, on the off season, too? She might even look forward to it if she gets a nice dinner out every now and then, entirely due to the podcast.

Advertising pays the bills. Advertising is usually something like, "This segment is brought to you by Acme Widgets, THE widget of the DBR Podcast." However, advertising can also be, "This segment is sponsored by the poster devil84, who really enjoys listening to this podcast and thanks Jason, Sam, and Donald for their excellent work!" In other words, it can be a donation with your name (or not) and message to the community -- a donation instead of advertising. Since there's a desire for some posters to advertise to other posters, it seems fine if we can tailor those ads to our audience -- AND upgrade the infrastructure to produce the podcast and throw a few bucks to the guys who work really hard to get a quality product out to their listeners.

Jeffrey
09-06-2017, 01:25 PM
The idea that Sam, Donald, and I should be held to a different standard because we happen to also volunteer our time to be moderators of this forum seems more than bit unfair to me.

Jason "I do appreciate the honest feedback. It is why we come here and practice absolute transparency with this effort" Evans


It was just pointed out to me that the concerns here are with us asking folks if they want to advertise, not with the concept of the pod having ads on it.


I'm certainly biased having spent my entire career in senior management positions. I've always elected to hold myself to a different (higher) standard than the people I lead. I'll never regret my approach. However, many, if not most, of my peers do not agree with my different (higher) standard approach.

Of course, my opinion does not matter and you guys have approval from the opinions which do matter. I hope Mrs. Evans enjoys many great meals!

ChillinDuke
09-06-2017, 01:35 PM
<snip>

...These guys spend an amazing amount of time doing this, and a few bucks tossed their way seems appropriate (we're talking upgrading the editing ability, or a couple of beers, Duke swag, or a dinner to appease the spouse here, not anything close to true compensation).

<snip>

So then we should at least be allowed to stipulate which two beers are purchased (Devildeac) as well as the Duke swag, and we should, collectively, accompany Jason and his wife to dinner.

Those are my terms. Take it or leave it.

Joking aside, I have no problem with this whatsoever. Good luck, guys!

- Chillin

OldPhiKap
09-06-2017, 02:35 PM
If y'all are ever sponsored by Zima, I'm out. Just sayin'

-jk
09-06-2017, 05:56 PM
I see a pretty big difference between the weekly podcast and the boards.

To fund the boards, we run a fundraiser every year, hope people will click through the Amazon link, and there are ads on the site - particularly the front page, courtesy of SBNation, who is the umbrella owner. Our forum is different than the SBNation discussion boards. There are associated costs with that as well as compensating the writers on the front page. Nobody's getting rich off of this; I have no idea on the financials but I hope those compensated by DBR at least cover their costs. All moderators, including myself as an administrator, are completely uncompensated (well, we DO get the satisfaction of moderating a wonderful community). Disclaimer: as an admin, I make some of the changes to the code; I don't have any role on the front page nor do I make any decisions on top-level management decisions or deal with financials in any way.

Enter the podcast. A group of mods got together to put together an additional product with the blessing of the site owners. It's become a popular product. It's designed to be a companion to DBR, based heavily on the discussion that takes place on these boards, with ideas for the podcast solicited from our readers. These guys spend an amazing amount of time doing this, and a few bucks tossed their way seems appropriate (we're talking upgrading the editing ability, or a couple of beers, Duke swag, or a dinner to appease the spouse here, not anything close to true compensation).

OK, back to the board rules. We have strict rules about starting threads advertising your business/site/blog because we don't want this to be littered with "come to my site and read/chat/buy my stuff." You can read/chat here, not somewhere else; you're probably not interested in buying something, or you'd be elsewhere trying to buy that something. We do let people advertise their business *IF* it relates somehow to an already established discussion. There are judgment calls, and moderators have had numerous discussions about how to handle a number of individual posts. A LOT of spam gets deleted from this site from first-time posters (thanks to -jk's tireless work). While we have those rules in place, we have had requests to relax those rules and some cranky complaints when we have removed advertising. There is a desire for some members of the DBR community to advertise to the DBR community. We have MANY members who graciously accept this rule and don't advertise, even though they'd like to.

The boards work on content that published first and moderated after it's posted. Pretty much anybody can register and begin posting, even if the person posting doesn't care a whit about sports, let alone Duke Basketball. There are some good policies and procedures in place so you don't have to read about "male enhancement" products or other products that don't appeal to this audience. In contrast, the podcast is completely moderated content. In this way, we can determine if an ad is appropriate for our audience. If you have to listen to advertising, wouldn't you rather listen to advertising that is from a fellow reader's business? Or how about a business that's the Official Product of the Blue Devils? Or, would you prefer some generic advertising? (Remember when UNC's online MBA program was advertising on DBR? What about the ones with gratuitous cleavage? The comments we received weren't pretty.)

Jason, Sam, and Donald would really like to upgrade their ability to provide an even better product. And a little something for their effort seems only fair, too. The hour or so of podcast that you listen to each week takes much longer to plan and produce. How would your spouse feel if you spent every Sunday talking basketball with your buddies, on the off season, too? She might even look forward to it if she gets a nice dinner out every now and then, entirely due to the podcast.

Advertising pays the bills. Advertising is usually something like, "This segment is brought to you by Acme Widgets, THE widget of the DBR Podcast." However, advertising can also be, "This segment is sponsored by the poster devil84, who really enjoys listening to this podcast and thanks Jason, Sam, and Donald for their excellent work!" In other words, it can be a donation with your name (or not) and message to the community -- a donation instead of advertising. Since there's a desire for some posters to advertise to other posters, it seems fine if we can tailor those ads to our audience -- AND upgrade the infrastructure to produce the podcast and throw a few bucks to the guys who work really hard to get a quality product out to their listeners.

Thanks, d84 - far more eloquent than I, as usual. The podcast team puts in a lot of effort, and I see no problem with them trying to recoup some of their costs, whether monetary or time and effort.

-jk

devildeac
09-06-2017, 06:31 PM
So then we should at least be allowed to stipulate which two beers are purchased (Devildeac) as well as the Duke swag, and we should, collectively, accompany Jason and his wife to dinner.

Those are my terms. Take it or leave it.

Joking aside, I have no problem with this whatsoever. Good luck, guys!

- Chillin

Well, now that beer has been mentioned again, I'm fully endorsing the project. :o

MartyClark
09-06-2017, 06:35 PM
I agree with some thoughtful, limited advertising.

Keep in mind that I am a Plaintiff's personal injury attorney. I'm used to billboards, radio boasts, unlimited T.V. spots in the midafternoon, nicknames ( the Strong Arm, the Terminator, the PitBull etc.) and all sorts of self inflating trickery. All of that offends me and I have never done it, probably to my financial detriment.

I think the founders of this podcast have done a great job. I have no objection to them earning a few dollars for expenses, beer and dinner with their spouses.

Thanks for the work you guys have done. DBR podcast is great and I am always interested in what you all have to say.

Pghdukie
09-06-2017, 06:36 PM
Well, now that beer has been mentioned again, I'm fully endorsing the project. :o

Only if the beer is ice cold. I hate warm beer. Reminds me of an un-prepared tailgate party.