2017 PGA Championship

[Tripping William]

The season's final major is being played this week at Quail Hollow Club in Charlotte. It is only the third time that the PGA Championship has been held in North Carolina: Once at Pinehurst in 1936, and once at Tanglewood Park in 1974. Quail Hollow, though, has been a regular Tour stop for many years, hosting the Wells Fargo event (under various names) since 2003. So the players know the course well, although holes 2 through 5 have been re-worked (including adding a new par-3 fourth hole).

Some obvious storylines:

(1) Jordan Spieth seeking to complete the career Grand Slam, after winning the British Open last month.

(2) Rory McIlroy has won twice at Quail Hollow, and finished second another time, but has a new caddie.

(3) Hideki Matsuyama just overtook Spieth in FedEx Cup points, and set the course record at Firestone CC in Akron this past Sunday with a 61, to win the Bridgestone.

(4) Could Rickie Fowler (a past Quail Hollow winner as well) break through with his first major?

(5) Could Phil Mickelson, playing in his 100th major, add to his major trophy collection?

Should be an interesting week, starting with today's announcement (rumor of it leaked yesterday) that in 2019, the PGA Championship will move from August to May (http://www.mlive.com/golf/index.ssf/2017/08/pga_championship_shifting_to_m.html) on the calendar. So no more "Glory's Last Shot" after next year at Bellerive.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Apropos of nothing, I remember it being a very big deal at one point when I was back in school in Charlotte that Michael Jordan played at Quail Hollow. No word on how much money was wagered.

[rsvman]

Thanks for starting this thread. I had not heard about the PGA being moved to the spring. I don't like change, so I don't like ("old man shakes fist at sky").

I heard they changed the first hole to make it a 515-yard par 4. Seems outrageous, but then I remember that a lot of these guys hit their drives 290-310. A 300-yard drive would leave 215, which is a distance they are used to for their par 3s, and that many of them can reach with a 4-iron or a 5-iron.

As a weak recreational golfer who hits a driver maybe 230 on a good day and a 4-iron maybe 165 or 170, that monster 515-yard par 4 is the equivalent of a 400-yard par 4 for me. So, I don't feel sorry for them at all!

[Tripping William]

Apropos of nothing, I remember it being a very big deal at one point when I was back in school in Charlotte that Michael Jordan played at Quail Hollow. No word on how much money was wagered.

When it comes to amounts MJ might wager, I'm thinking the ceiling is the roof. :rolleyes:

[nmduke2001]

I heard they changed the first hole to make it a 515-yard par 4. Seems outrageous, but then I remember that a lot of these guys hit their drives 290-310. A 300-yard drive would leave 215, which is a distance they are used to for their par 3s, and that many of them can reach with a 4-iron or a 5-iron.

As a weak recreational golfer who hits a driver maybe 230 on a good day and a 4-iron maybe 165 or 170, that monster 515-yard par 4 is the equivalent of a 400-yard par 4 for me. So, I don't feel sorry for them at all!

Some of the longer guys will probably play driver and then wedge for 515. I'm guessing most will have at most a 7-iron in. These guys are freaks.

https://thegolfnewsnet.com/golfnewsnetteam/2017/02/02/how-far-pga-tour-players-hit-ball-average-distance-102775/

Heck, Jason Day and Dustin Johnson are hitting irons 300 yards these days.

http://golfweek.com/2016/06/14/tbx-equipment-300-yard-irons-reality-tours-longest/

[cato]

I don't think Rory has it in him. Rank speculation: Spieth's wizardry on the green has totally gotten in Rory's head, and he won't be able to putt well enough to win.

[CDu]

It will be interesting to see if Spieth can keep it going. It's amazing how good he is despite not being among the big hitters. His short game is just so so good.

[CDu]

Some of the longer guys will probably play driver and then wedge for 515. I'm guessing most will have at most a 7-iron in. These guys are freaks.

https://thegolfnewsnet.com/golfnewsnetteam/2017/02/02/how-far-pga-tour-players-hit-ball-average-distance-102775/

Heck, Jason Day and Dustin Johnson are hitting irons 300 yards these days.

http://golfweek.com/2016/06/14/tbx-equipment-300-yard-irons-reality-tours-longest/

Yep, it's ridiculous how far these guys can hit it and control it. They quite commoly hit 350+ yards with their driver. Johnson has topped 400 yards with his driver.

But for reference, 215 yards is more in the territory of a 6- or 7-iron if you typically hit a 300-yard drive.

[Tripping William]

I don't think Rory has it in him. Rank speculation: Spieth's wizardry on the green has totally gotten in Rory's head, and he won't be able to putt well enough to win.

I have been trying to find a link/source for this (to no avail thus far), but I was listening to a Sirius XM broadcast the other day that said something to the effect that Rory's made putts on Sunday at the Bridgestone totaled, like, 33 feet. That's less than two feet per hole, and unbelievably low. Their point was that Rory wasn't making anything at all, as all of his makes (en route to a 1-under 69) were tap-ins.

[CDu]

I have been trying to find a link/source for this (to no avail thus far), but I was listening to a Sirius XM broadcast the other day that said something to the effect that Rory's made putts on Sunday at the Bridgestone totaled, like, 33 feet. That's less than two feet per hole, and unbelievably low. Their point was that Rory wasn't making anything at all, as all of his makes (en route to a 1-under 69) were tap-ins.

Hey, that's about my average distance on made puts!

Now, about the rest of my game...

[nmduke2001]

In case you want to watch 5'9" 160 lbs Rory McIlroy carry a 3-wood 315 yards and carry the driver 350.

http://www.golfchannel.com/media?guid=LHRjw0_vRrMuwTRUBOZRLmoNj6Z1sM6r

[Tripping William]

Seems to me the winner yesterday was, by and large, the golf course. Thorbjorn Olesen posted an early 67 (-4), and Kevin Kisner posted the same score late in the day. A few guys came in at 68 (-3), including US Open champ Brooks Koepka. But there were only 22 players under par, and some big names really struggled (looking at you, Lefty, and defending champ Jimmy Walker). Tee times are flipped today: Those who played in the morning yesterday will play in the afternoon today, and vice versa.

[cato]

Not a lot of low scores this morning. A lot of people to play, but Rickie looks to be in decent shape if this trend continues.

[Tripping William]

Not a lot of low scores this morning. A lot of people to play, but Rickie looks to be in decent shape if this trend continues.

Kisner matched yesterday afternoon's 67 with another 67 this morning, giving him a four-shot lead at present. Rickie is five shots back, at -3 after a 1-under 70 this morning.

[cato]

Kisner matched yesterday afternoon's 67 with another 67 this morning, giving him a four-shot lead at present. Rickie is five shots back, at -3 after a 1-under 70 this morning.

Yep. I had assumed that Kisner would come back to the field, instead of increasing his lead.

[Tripping William]

Yep. I had assumed that Kisner would come back to the field, instead of increasing his lead.

And then there's Hideki Matsuyama and his 64, to grab a share of the lead at -8. J-Day's 66 puts him two back. Weather also intervened, and may likewise affect Moving Day tomorrow.

[Bob Green]

Weather also intervened, and may likewise affect Moving Day tomorrow.

Isolated Thunderstorms and Scattered Thunderstorms are forecast all afternoon today:

https://weather.com/weather/hourbyhour/l/USNC0121:1:US

[cato]

A *lot* of golf to play, but Kisner is playing like someone who is going to hold on to this lead.

[Tripping William]

A *lot* of golf to play, but Kisner is playing like someone who is going to hold on to this lead.

He did so today, but needed a bit of luck on 18 to pull it off. By all rights, he should have been in the creek left of 18, but his approach hit the concrete bridge and ended up in the rough. He managed bogey to keep a one-shot lead over Matsuyama and Chris Stroud. The Green Mile should hold some drama tomorrow.

[Indoor66]

Don't see a Snowman often on the Tour.

[Tripping William]

Don't see a Snowman often on the Tour.

Yeah, that was painful to watch. That resembled how I play regularly. I've always wanted to golf like Jason Day .....

[Bob Green]

I've always wanted to golf like Jason Day ....

Unfortunately, on 18, Jason Day played golf like you and me.

[rsvman]

Could've been a bogey if he hadn't done his best Mickelson impression after his tee shot found the trees.

[Tripping William]

Could've been a bogey if he hadn't done his best Mickelson impression after his tee shot found the trees.

Maybe like Spieth at Birkdale. He probably should have just pitched out left

[Tripping William]

I was fortunate to be down at Quail Hollow yesterday and, although it was steamy (especially in those handful of times when the sun came out), the weather wasn't a factor at all. I was happy to have predicted, pre-round to the people who came with me, that I thought Justin Thomas would be your winner. I just had a feeling that his length would be a difference-maker on that course. Naturally, I could not have predicted the monkey-throw his tee shot on the 10th received (kicking it back into the fairway), or the hang-on-the-lip-for-ten-seconds-before-dropping-in putt he had on the 10th green. Or, for that matter, his chip-in birdie on 11 or his game-clinching birdie on 17.

Lots of fun but, man, that course was LONG.

[Indoor66]

I was fortunate to be down at Quail Hollow yesterday and, although it was steamy (especially in those handful of times when the sun came out), the weather wasn't a factor at all. I was happy to have predicted, pre-round to the people who came with me, that I thought Justin Thomas would be your winner. I just had a feeling that his length would be a difference-maker on that course. Naturally, I could not have predicted the monkey-throw his tee shot on the 10th received (kicking it back into the fairway), or the hang-on-the-lip-for-ten-seconds-before-dropping-in putt he had on the 10th green. Or, for that matter, his chip-in birdie on 11 or his game-clinching birdie on 17.

Lots of fun but, man, that course was LONG.

Being long and being lucky helps, but being very, very good at the game is the key.

[Tripping William]

Being long and being lucky helps, but being very, very good at the game is the key.

Agreed. They will probably go unnoticed, but in some ways the shots of the tournament could well have been JT's bogey-saving putt on the 1st (where he was in the fairway bunker off the tee, in the far-left greenside bunker after his second shot, in the short-right greenside bunker after his third shot, and about 15 feet away putting for bogey) and his birdie on the second. The wheels could really have come off if he had started the day with double-par (which would have put him at -3), instead of bogey-birdie (leaving him at -5).

[dudog84]

Just curious to hear from more serious golfers than I, and given the extensive discussion on the enforcement of the rules of golf in a recent thread about a future Dukie...

In the recent past we've seen the exceedingly strict enforcement of the rules cost players major championships (Lexi Thompson mis-replacing her ball on green by a fraction of an inch, Dustin Johnson's club touching sand in trap/waste area) and multiple other disruptions due to a TV watcher calling in. Tiger was affected numerous times, and these examples are just off the top of my head.

Supposedly Justin Thomas' putt is given 10 seconds to drop, but it took a few seconds more. Supposedly Jordan Spieth had 5 minutes to put his ball back in play (British Open), but took over 20 minutes. Why were these not enforced? Arguably they are easier to call than some of the extreme camera close-up/super slo-mo that is used to see a few grains of sand move or a couple of centimeters of displacement.

This is nothing against Thomas or Spieth, I'm just wondering. In the moment I was much more disturbed by the Spieth situation and how it might affect his playing partner Matt Kuchar, but Kuchar seemed to handle it ok and Spieth roared back. But then I started to think, that 20+ minutes sure gave Spieth time to compose himself.

Anyways, thoughts?

[Tripping William]

Just curious to hear from more serious golfers than I, and given the extensive discussion on the enforcement of the rules of golf in a recent thread about a future Dukie...

In the recent past we've seen the exceedingly strict enforcement of the rules cost players major championships (Lexi Thompson mis-replacing her ball on green by a fraction of an inch, Dustin Johnson's club touching sand in trap/waste area) and multiple other disruptions due to a TV watcher calling in. Tiger was affected numerous times, and these examples are just off the top of my head.

Supposedly Justin Thomas' putt is given 10 seconds to drop, but it took a few seconds more. Supposedly Jordan Spieth had 5 minutes to put his ball back in play (British Open), but took over 20 minutes. Why were these not enforced? Arguably they are easier to call than some of the extreme camera close-up/super slo-mo that is used to see a few grains of sand move or a couple of centimeters of displacement.

This is nothing against Thomas or Spieth, I'm just wondering. In the moment I was much more disturbed by the Spieth situation and how it might affect his playing partner Matt Kuchar, but Kuchar seemed to handle it ok and Spieth roared back. But then I started to think, that 20+ minutes sure gave Spieth time to compose himself.

Anyways, thoughts?

This article (http://www.businessinsider.com/jordan-spieth-open-championship-driving-range-shot-rules-2017-7) has a pretty good description of the R&A Rules in question in the Spieth situation on the 13th at Royal Birkdale last month. I'm quite confident the "five minutes" is the amount of time allotted for Spieth to find his ball, not get rulings and ultimately play his shot. Here's that text of the R&A Rule (27c):


c. Ball Not Found Within Five Minutes

If a ball is lost as a result of not being found or identified as his by the player within five minutes after the player's side or his or their caddies have begun to search for it, the player must play a ball, under penalty of one stroke, as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5).


As for JT, the text of the relevant USGA Rules are as follows:


16-2. Ball Overhanging Hole: When any part of the ball overhangs the lip of the hole, the player is allowed enough time to reach the hole without unreasonable delay and an additional ten seconds to determine whether the ball is at rest. If by then the ball has not fallen into the hole, it is deemed to be at rest. If the ball subsequently falls into the hole, the player is deemed to have holed out with his last stroke, and must add a penalty stroke to his score for the hole; otherwise, there is no penalty under this Rule.


6-7. Undue Delay; Slow Play: The player must play without undue delay and in accordance with any pace of play guidelines that the Committee may establish. Between completion of a hole and playing from the next teeing ground, the player must not unduly delay play.

[killerleft]

Just curious to hear from more serious golfers than I, and given the extensive discussion on the enforcement of the rules of golf in a recent thread about a future Dukie...

In the recent past we've seen the exceedingly strict enforcement of the rules cost players major championships (Lexi Thompson mis-replacing her ball on green by a fraction of an inch, Dustin Johnson's club touching sand in trap/waste area) and multiple other disruptions due to a TV watcher calling in. Tiger was affected numerous times, and these examples are just off the top of my head.

Supposedly Justin Thomas' putt is given 10 seconds to drop, but it took a few seconds more. Supposedly Jordan Spieth had 5 minutes to put his ball back in play (British Open), but took over 20 minutes. Why were these not enforced? Arguably they are easier to call than some of the extreme camera close-up/super slo-mo that is used to see a few grains of sand move or a couple of centimeters of displacement.

This is nothing against Thomas or Spieth, I'm just wondering. In the moment I was much more disturbed by the Spieth situation and how it might affect his playing partner Matt Kuchar, but Kuchar seemed to handle it ok and Spieth roared back. But then I started to think, that 20+ minutes sure gave Spieth time to compose himself.

Anyways, thoughts?

Spieth, nor any other player, is on the clock while discussing the options available to him with an official. The five-minute rule is for finding a lost ball. Slow play can, of course, be penalized. Don't know the intracacies of the slow play rules, though.

By my unofficial 'one-thousand-and one...' count, it indeed took ten seconds before the ball finally dropped. I don't think anyone has ever been punished for waiting that long to putt a cliff-hanger.

I've been called out wrong in the recent past over my rules interpretations, so there's that!:o

[dudog84]

Much thanks to both, especially Tripping William for taking the time to find the relevant rules from the book. Clearly both players within their rights.

And that's why I frequent this board!

[Tripping William]

Much thanks to both, especially Tripping William for taking the time to find the relevant rules from the book. Clearly both players within their rights.

And that's why I frequent this board!

I cannot recall where I saw it (and now cannot find it), but I saw a replay clip of JT's putt where, as it hung on the lip, the announcer said (paraphrasing), "Walk away; take your time getting to the hole." I believe that's why: To give a bit of extra time before the 10-second-rule kicked in.

Separately, Nick Faldo's exchange with Verne Lundquist in calling that putt was awesome. As it goes in, Faldo says (quoting Verne's call when Tiger chipped in at the 16th at Augusta in the 2005 Master), "In your life have you ever seen anything like that, Verne?" Verne deadpans: "Well, yes, I have." Hilarious!

[Tripping William]

I cannot recall where I saw it (and now cannot find it), but I saw a replay clip of JT's putt where, as it hung on the lip, the announcer said (paraphrasing), "Walk away; take your time getting to the hole." I believe that's why: To give a bit of extra time before the 10-second-rule kicked in.


Found it: https://www.instagram.com/p/BXv47BGh3ct/?taken-by=pgachampionship

[killerleft]

And, to beat a dead horse:), it appears to me that the ball was ever-so-slightly moving for at least a couple seconds before it dropped. The line JT drew on the ball makes it easier to see. I think.