Student Attendance

[hallcity]

It looks like Duke isn't the only school where students aren't as interested in attending basketball games as they used to be. According to posters on a Kansas message board (http://www.scout.com/college/kansas/forums/2481-hoops-talk/16761269-ku-taking-away-more-seats-from-students), the students never filled their allotted seats for any game this past season and the Kansas student allotment is being reduced by 400 for the upcoming season. Of course, Kansas doesn't have good rivalry games in the B12. Who gets excited about playing Iowa State?

[UrinalCake]

Definitely a trend across all schools and all sports for that matter, both in college and the pros. The experience of attending a game in person is harder to justify compared to watching in 4K in your dorm room. Plus kids have low attention spans and can't handle waiting in line. Still, it's hard to imagine the Kansas students didn't fill their seats for ANY games.

[Indoor66]

That attention span issue doesn't seem to be limited to students, if my observations of the current world have any validity.

[FadedTackyShirt]

Definitely a trend across all schools and all sports for that matter, both in college and the pros. The experience of attending a game in person is harder to justify compared to watching in 4K in your dorm room. Plus kids have low attention spans and can't handle waiting in line. Still, it's hard to imagine the Kansas students didn't fill their seats for ANY games.

Syracuse will have major problems once Boeheim retires. Huge arena with seats way too far from the court, crappy atmosphere, and terrible weather. Stay indoors and warm if the team is crappy. See: BC.

KU and Duke have great arenas, tradition, and atmosphere. USC has none of that and they don't draw well even when they have decent teams.

[BLPOG]

Definitely a trend across all schools and all sports for that matter, both in college and the pros. The experience of attending a game in person is harder to justify compared to watching in 4K in your dorm room. Plus kids have low attention spans and can't handle waiting in line. Still, it's hard to imagine the Kansas students didn't fill their seats for ANY games.

True in general, but not especially relevant to Duke undergraduates watching Duke basketball. In fact, I don't think Duke even offers in-dorm-room cable anymore, although obviously students can potentially access live streams.

I don't think low attention spans and trouble waiting in line are much of an issue per se for Duke students either. The issue is that the cost-benefit ratio of waiting in line for basketball has increased significantly for Duke students. Meanwhile, the "risk" has increased as well. With a smaller number of seats available to (undergraduate) students, the cost (time spent waiting) is higher, and because of both that decrease and way in which seating is managed by the event staff and line monitors, there isn't a particularly good correspondence between place in line and final seat. That means that a student either has to incur an even greater cost to ensure a certain seat or gamble on his position. Higher costs or higher risks are going to reduce any behavior. Even when the effect is initially at the margins, it is magnified by the practice of selling remaining GA seats (thereby reducing the incentive to show up just prior to the game for students unwilling to incur the high cost/risk of the line). (I'm not saying Duke shouldn't sell those seats, I'm just outlining a causal sequence)

There are a host of factors that explain declining attendance at Duke and elsewhere, but if you make it harder for students to attend a game, you shouldn't be surprised that fewer show up.

[cato]

That attention span issue doesn't seem to be limited to students, if my observations of the current world have any validity.

tl;dr

[Channing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSUXXzN26zg

[UrinalCake]

There are a host of factors that explain declining attendance at Duke and elsewhere, but if you make it harder for students to attend a game, you shouldn't be surprised that fewer show up.

It's a delicate balance. By making tickets hard to get, demand is driven up and so more people want to go. But if it's TOO hard, then you reach a tipping point where students will simply watch at home, as you say. I've never really felt like the risk of not getting in after going through the waiting process was a huge factor; everyone in line has a number so you pretty much know if you're going to make it in. The other factor that is often cited in Duke's declining student interest is the larger number of international students, who traditionally aren't as likely to paint their faces blue and stand outside for days to watch a basketball game.

The economics of the seating in Cameron has always fascinated me. I got to experience it as an undergrad in the late 90's and then again as a grad student for the past three seasons. On the one hand, tickets to a game in Cameron seem impossible to score. People will pay hundreds of dollars to get into a random early-season exhibition game against a scrub team. On the other hand, there are often are empty seats either from season ticket holders who don't attend or from the student sections not filling up. The box office sells tickets just before each game for around $100 and for most games the very corner sections remain unsold. The undergrad and grad students want to preserve as many seats as possible, which requires filling those spots every game, but it's really only the UNC game that completely fills up. For every other game, the grad student ushers allow students to bring non-student guests in order to fill the seats.

[budwom]

It looks like Duke isn't the only school where students aren't as interested in attending basketball games as they used to be. According to posters on a Kansas message board (http://www.scout.com/college/kansas/forums/2481-hoops-talk/16761269-ku-taking-away-more-seats-from-students), the students never filled their allotted seats for any game this past season and the Kansas student allotment is being reduced by 400 for the upcoming season. Of course, Kansas doesn't have good rivalry games in the B12. Who gets excited about playing Iowa State?

On occasion, Iowa. Cornhole championship or something.

[devildeac]

It looks like Duke isn't the only school where students aren't as interested in attending basketball games as they used to be. According to posters on a Kansas message board (http://www.scout.com/college/kansas/forums/2481-hoops-talk/16761269-ku-taking-away-more-seats-from-students), the students never filled their allotted seats for any game this past season and the Kansas student allotment is being reduced by 400 for the upcoming season. Of course, Kansas doesn't have good rivalry games in the B12. Who gets excited about playing Iowa State?

Could Murland could use a good, new rival?

:rolleyes:

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Thank goodness we never built a bigger Cameron. Getting behinds into the "new and improved WW" is and always will be impossible.
Love, Ima

[coldriver10]

I propose kind of the opposite explanation to "they have short attention spans." Honestly, I just think there are a lot more demands on students these days. For example, to be remotely competitive for med school you need good/great grades, good/great scores, solid research, real volunteer experiences, and maybe an extracurricular or two thrown in to seem like a normal person. There are only so many hours in a day and regularly attending games, which at a MINIMUM is a 2.5 hour excursion (and more likely is 4+ hours), can be difficult. It's much easier to just watch online or in your dorm. The time issue is obviously not just limited to pre-meds.

It may also be that Duke is recruiting increasingly more...how do I put this..."academic" students. But that's just conjecture.

[blUDAYvil]

The other factor that is often cited in Duke's declining student interest is the larger number of international students, who traditionally aren't as likely to paint their faces blue and stand outside for days to watch a basketball game.


I agree that this factor is often cited on this board but I haven't seen data to support it and I don't buy it (especially since I was one (of many) international student who painted his face blue and tented outside for weeks to watch basketball games). The class of 2020 is comprised of 14% international students. The class of 2015 was 11% international. Even if international students are 50% less likely to attend basketball games than domestic students (which I don't believe is the case), it would describe a <2% reduction in attendance over 5 years.

Further, of the 247 "international" students in the class of 2020 (who attended non-US high schools), 71 are US citizens. That leaves 10% of the 2020 class who are international and foreign citizens - too small to significantly affect the attendance numbers in my view.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I propose kind of the opposite explanation to "they have short attention spans." Honestly, I just think there are a lot more demands on students these days. For example, to be remotely competitive for med school you need good/great grades, good/great scores, solid research, real volunteer experiences, and maybe an extracurricular or two thrown in to seem like a normal person. There are only so many hours in a day and regularly attending games, which at a MINIMUM is a 2.5 hour excursion (and more likely is 4+ hours), can be difficult. It's much easier to just watch online or in your dorm. The time issue is obviously not just limited to pre-meds.

It may also be that Duke is recruiting increasingly more...how do I put this..."academic" students. But that's just conjecture.

I think this is it too. If I were a high schooler right now, there is not a snowball's chance in hell that I'd get in. My future kids will have to study 18 hours a day to get in. The academic rigors at a place like Duke are insane. To me, I attribute the increasingly challenging academic environment as the main reason why attendance is down.

Getting into Duke is sooooooo damn competitive, and it increases every single year. And if you're academically focused on high school, you're likely to be academically focused in college.

[hallcity]

I agree that this factor is often cited on this board but I haven't seen data to support it and I don't buy it (especially since I was one (of many) international student who painted his face blue and tented outside for weeks to watch basketball games). The class of 2020 is comprised of 14% international students. The class of 2015 was 11% international. Even if international students are 50% less likely to attend basketball games than domestic students (which I don't believe is the case), it would describe a <2% reduction in attendance over 5 years.

Further, of the 247 "international" students in the class of 2020 (who attended non-US high schools), 71 are US citizens. That leaves 10% of the 2020 class who are international and foreign citizens - too small to significantly affect the attendance numbers in my view.

A recent alumni magazine said that less than half of Duke students identify as "white." Duke is admitting a lot of Asian-American students. Basketball may not have quite the same cultural relevance for them as for European-Americans and African-Americans. With Duke-Kunshan about to start admitting undergraduates, most of whom will spend a year at Duke-Durham, the problem of students who aren't interested in college sports will likely increase.

[Edouble]

Everyone is focused on how the students have changed over the years.

Basketball has changed over the years too.

College basketball just isn't as good as it used to be. I still watch because I got hooked in the 90s. But if I watched for the first time today, I don't know if I would be as drawn in.

[75Crazie]

I would suggest that there is a likely inverse relationship between the level of professionalism in "college" basketball/football and the identification in students (and alumni) of college games as a collegiate activity. On the other hand, I might just be projecting my personal issues of identification onto the community at large.

[ipatent]

Having almost a completely different team on the floor every year can't help attendance. I'll bet the situation is worse at schools that do not field a contender every year. Of course, such schools typically don't have many one and done players, but part of their attendance draw is to see the teams that do.

[Devils Librarian]

The night we won the title in 2015 I remember walking around campus with my wife. As we watched the students celebrating in the quad I also noticed that the libraries had plenty of students studying in them.

During my time as a student at Duke I went to every home game, even when that meant standing out in the rain in November. The only game I ever missed was because I had a paper due. My guess is that student attendance has more to do with academic rigor than with anything else. You don't need to be a basketball fan to have the time of your life in Cameron, you just need to be a fan of barely controlled chaos.

[YmoBeThere]

A recent alumni magazine said that less than half of Duke students identify as "white." Duke is admitting a lot of Asian-American students. Basketball may not have quite the same cultural relevance for them as for European-Americans and African-Americans. With Duke-Kunshan about to start admitting undergraduates, most of whom will spend a year at Duke-Durham, the problem of students who aren't interested in college sports will likely increase.


Wow, just wow. Interesting problem to have, too many students prioritizing academics. Perhaps we need to change our admissions philosophy?

[UrinalCake]

A recent alumni magazine said that less than half of Duke students identify as "white." Duke is admitting a lot of Asian-American students. Basketball may not have quite the same cultural relevance for them as for European-Americans and African-Americans.

As an Asian American who lives and breathes Duke basketball, I do find this to be an overgeneralization, but not necessarily false either. Back in the 90's the undergrad population was something like 90% white, now it's closer to 50%. As I alluded to upthread, the percentage of international students has grown as well. How this affects basketball attendance is hard to quantify but I do think it is a factor along with the others mentioned.

As a side note, whenever they pan the crowd in Cameron I always see a really diverse student body, which is great. We've come a long way since the days when Duke was stereotyped as a school for predominantly privileged whites.

[FadedTackyShirt]

As an Asian American who lives and breathes Duke basketball, I do find this to be an overgeneralization, but not necessarily false either. Back in the 90's the undergrad population was something like 90% white, now it's closer to 50%. As I alluded to upthread, the percentage of international students has grown as well. How this affects basketball attendance is hard to quantify but I do think it is a factor along with the others mentioned.

As a side note, whenever they pan the crowd in Cameron I always see a really diverse student body, which is great. We've come a long way since the days when Duke was stereotyped as a school for predominantly privileged whites.

Was surprised the first time I was on campus at Duke in the late '80s since the student body was so racially homogeneous. Was a pretty stark contrast to Cal's and Stanford's student bodies from that era. Their basketball teams were crappy, games were poorly attended, and their student sections were much less diverse that their campuses as a whole.

Duke games in the early '90s were well attended and the student section(s) (undergrad and grad) mirrored the then student body. Fast forward a generation and Duke as a whole is a lot more diverse and that's clearly reflected in CIS. Duke hoops has been good for 30+ years and it's baked into some of the applicant/admit self selection.

[Indoor66]

Wow, just wow. Interesting problem to have, too many students prioritizing academics. Perhaps we need to change our admissions philosophy?

Well, if you want to change the philosophy, you only have to look 8 miles to the southwest for the answer. :mad:

[left_hook_lacey]

I read the thread title and thought this was a new unc scandal thread.😂 Carry on.

[Indoor66]

I read the thread title and thought this was a new unc scandal thread.😂 Carry on.

NO ONE would believe that an academic attendance thread could ever be about UnCheat.😎

[devildeac]

I read the thread title and thought this was a new unc scandal thread.😂 Carry on.

Your hint it was not about unc should have been the inclusion of "student" in the title. :rolleyes:;)

[Bob Green]

Duke hoops has been good for 30+ years...

Duke is currently fourth overall in wins behind Kentucky, Kansas and North Carolina. What many fans do not realize is Duke was fifth overall in wins when Coach K arrived in 1980. Duke hoops has been good for a lot longer than 30+ years. For example, during the 45 seasons from 1927-28 to 1971-72, Duke had only one losing season (1938-39). Vic Bubas was the coach when I started watching Duke basketball and he was a good one. Of course there is also that Eddie Cameron guy they named the Indoor Stadium after. He won a game or two.

In regard to increased numbers of Asian and Asian-American students being the cause of decreased student attendance, that may be a factor but I am of the opinion it has nothing to do with the fact they are Asian/Asian-American as I lived in Asia for many years and basketball is very popular there. Perhaps some Asians admitted to Duke are not interested in basketball but Asians in general like the sport. Basketball is extremely popular in the Philippines.

[sagegrouse]

Duke is currently fourth overall in wins behind Kentucky, Kansas and North Carolina. What many fans do not realize is Duke was fifth overall in wins when Coach K arrived in 1980. Duke hoops has been good for a lot longer than 30+ years. For example, during the 45 seasons from 1927-28 to 1971-72, Duke had only one losing season (1938-39). Vic Bubas was the coach when I started watching Duke basketball and he was a good one. Of course there is also that Eddie Cameron guy they named the Indoor Stadium after. He won a game or two.

In regard to increased numbers of Asian and Asian-American students being the cause of decreased student attendance, that may be a factor but I am of the opinion it has nothing to do with the fact they are Asian/Asian-American as I lived in Asia for many years and basketball is very popular there. Perhaps some Asians admitted to Duke are not interested in basketball but Asians in general like the sport. Basketball is extremely popular in the Philippines.

Maybe academic concentration and effort... and, maybe not. Lots of things going on for students that divert attention from in-person attendance at basketball games.

[jv001]

Duke is currently fourth overall in wins behind Kentucky, Kansas and North Carolina. What many fans do not realize is Duke was fifth overall in wins when Coach K arrived in 1980. Duke hoops has been good for a lot longer than 30+ years. For example, during the 45 seasons from 1927-28 to 1971-72, Duke had only one losing season (1938-39). Vic Bubas was the coach when I started watching Duke basketball and he was a good one. Of course there is also that Eddie Cameron guy they named the Indoor Stadium after. He won a game or two.

In regard to increased numbers of Asian and Asian-American students being the cause of decreased student attendance, that may be a factor but I am of the opinion it has nothing to do with the fact they are Asian/Asian-American as I lived in Asia for many years and basketball is very popular there. Perhaps some Asians admitted to Duke are not interested in basketball but Asians in general like the sport. Basketball is extremely popular in the Philippines.

I think two of those 3 schools play by the rules and use players that are actual student athletes. The 3rd school is a cheating bunch of scumbags. So, they don't count in my view. GoDuke!

[-jk]

Duke is currently fourth overall in wins behind Kentucky, Kansas and North Carolina. What many fans do not realize is Duke was fifth overall in wins when Coach K arrived in 1980. Duke hoops has been good for a lot longer than 30+ years. For example, during the 45 seasons from 1927-28 to 1971-72, Duke had only one losing season (1938-39). Vic Bubas was the coach when I started watching Duke basketball and he was a good one. Of course there is also that Eddie Cameron guy they named the Indoor Stadium after. He won a game or two.

In regard to increased numbers of Asian and Asian-American students being the cause of decreased student attendance, that may be a factor but I am of the opinion it has nothing to do with the fact they are Asian/Asian-American as I lived in Asia for many years and basketball is very popular there. Perhaps some Asians admitted to Duke are not interested in basketball but Asians in general like the sport. Basketball is extremely popular in the Philippines.

And K's 30+ years of winning only moved the needle from Duke being the 5th all-time to the 4th all-time winningest program. He's the best ever, but there was a lot of great coaching before him...

edit to add: OK, go figure who and when the former 4th got displaced. Your summer homework. (And if you don't need to research it, let the youngsters have at it. Thx.)

-jk

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Maybe academic concentration and effort... and, maybe not. Lots of things going on for students that divert attention from in-person attendance at basketball games.

What could be more important than watching Blue Devils play in Cameron?

[ipatent]

Duke is currently fourth overall in wins behind Kentucky, Kansas and North Carolina. What many fans do not realize is Duke was fifth overall in wins when Coach K arrived in 1980. Duke hoops has been good for a lot longer than 30+ years. For example, during the 45 seasons from 1927-28 to 1971-72, Duke had only one losing season (1938-39). Vic Bubas was the coach when I started watching Duke basketball and he was a good one. Of course there is also that Eddie Cameron guy they named the Indoor Stadium after. He won a game or two.

In regard to increased numbers of Asian and Asian-American students being the cause of decreased student attendance, that may be a factor but I am of the opinion it has nothing to do with the fact they are Asian/Asian-American as I lived in Asia for many years and basketball is very popular there. Perhaps some Asians admitted to Duke are not interested in basketball but Asians in general like the sport. Basketball is extremely popular in the Philippines.

That's correct. The drought was in the early to mid 70s. For those of us who came of age as Duke basketball fans from about 1970 to 1983 it was the baseline for expectations. There was also a suspicion in the early 80s, when I was a student, that Duke's academic rise from the mid 60s forward made it more difficult to compete at the highest level.

My Asian American friends were side by side with the rest of us in Cameron hoping against hope for a win against the likes of Clemson during the 10-17 and 11-17 seasons.

One has to wonder if some of the decline, if it exists, is success fatigue.

[MarkD83]

That's correct. The drought was in the early to mid 70s. For those of us who came of age as Duke basketball fans from about 1970 to 1983 it was the baseline for expectations. There was also a suspicion in the early 80s, when I was a student, that Duke's academic rise from the mid 60s forward made it more difficult to compete at the highest level.

My Asian American friends were side by side with the rest of us in Cameron hoping against hope for a win against the likes of Clemson during the 10-17 and 11-17 seasons.

One has to wonder if some of the decline, if it exists, is success fatigue.

Thank goodness for Vince Taylor

[Native]

Honestly, out of everything that's been discussed in threads like these — and there have been quite a few — I'm amazed that conference expansion hasn't been brought up more.

I graduated in 2015, and during my four years at Duke we had no issues packing the stands when we had a Top 25 matchup. With conferences expanding to the size that they are, we have more games against middling opposition. Think of it this way: the teams routinely near the top of the ACC nowadays are Duke, the Cheats, Syracuse, Louisville, Notre Dame, and Florida State. Add Miami and another team that's having an above-average year — perhaps State, Pitt, or someone else depending on the season — and that's eight teams. That was the size of the entire conference way back when. Arguments about competitive parity between eras notwithstanding, that meant you got every good team in the conference at least once at home. They've diluted schedules to the point where we'll only get the Cheats plus maybe one or two other Top 25 games in Cameron during a season if we're lucky.

You can make the "oh, students should show up to help the team win regardless of the opposition" argument. It holds water — to me, at least — but as a 19-year-old high-achiever at Duke, which would you rather do: study up for your midterm on Thursday or go see Duke pummel a 2-18 Boston College squad on a Tuesday night?

[flyingdutchdevil]

Honestly, out of everything that's been discussed in threads like these — and there have been quite a few — I'm amazed that conference expansion hasn't been brought up more.

I graduated in 2015, and during my four years at Duke we had no issues packing the stands when we had a Top 25 matchup. With conferences expanding to the size that they are, we have more games against middling opposition. Think of it this way: the teams routinely near the top of the ACC nowadays are Duke, the Cheats, Syracuse, Louisville, Notre Dame, and Florida State. Add Miami and another team that's having an above-average year — perhaps State, Pitt, or someone else depending on the season — and that's eight teams. That was the size of the entire conference way back when. Arguments about competitive parity between eras notwithstanding, that meant you got every good team in the conference at least once at home. They've diluted schedules to the point where we'll only get the Cheats plus maybe one or two other Top 25 games in Cameron during a season if we're lucky.

You can make the "oh, students should show up to help the team win regardless of the opposition" argument. It holds water — to me, at least — but as a 19-year-old high-achiever at Duke, which would you rather do: study up for your midterm on Thursday or go see Duke pummel a 2-18 Boston College squad on a Tuesday night?

But the four teams that have joined the conference since your time at Duke - Louisville, ND, Pitt, and 'Cuse - make the ACC so much stronger (historical Pitt. Current Pitt blows).

IMO, expansion may be a reason for the average fan not caring, but I find it hard to believe that it's the reason hardcore fans aren't coming to games.

[ChillinDuke]

But the four teams that have joined the conference since your time at Duke - Louisville, ND, Pitt, and 'Cuse - make the ACC so much stronger (historical Pitt. Current Pitt blows).

IMO, expansion may be a reason for the average fan not caring, but I find it hard to believe that it's the reason hardcore fans aren't coming to games.

Agree with FDD on this one. As far as records go, there have to be bottom feeders no matter how big the conference gets. So if it wasn't 2-18 BC, it was 2-14 Clemson (just a hypothetical example).

I will take Native's side from a slightly different stance: the smaller conference bred more inter-year animosity, especially with the backdrop of no (or less) OAD. The team continuity meant that you were going to get a Wake Forest team, for example, in Cameron that you just hated. You had a history with them. You wanted to beat the snot out of them. With more teams, you're not guaranteed to see that same team at home next year, let alone have the same players on that team. It is a delicate ecosystem of players/programs and with the (1) increase in conference sizes, (2) OAD culture, and (3) increase in transfers, casual and even some die-hard fans don't have the same storylines to draw their butts into the seats.

- Chillin

[OldPhiKap]

It is a delicate ecosystem of players/programs and with the (1) increase in conference sizes, (2) OAD culture, and (3) increase in transfers, casual and even some die-hard fans don't have the same storylines to draw their butts into the seats.



Agree with this, and would add: (4) large screen and high def televisions that give you a great view of the game from the comfort of your couch (with a beverage if you want); and (5) streaming and TiVo-type devices which allow you to watch the game when you want, as opposed to having to leave the dorm/house an hour before the game to fight the crowd, park, and get to/from the game.

The home viewing experience is light years ahead of where it was even 20 years ago. The balance towards watching from home is much greater than it used to be.

[hallcity]

Agree with this, and would add: (4) large screen and high def televisions that give you a great view of the game from the comfort of your couch (with a beverage if you want); and (5) streaming and TiVo-type devices which allow you to watch the game when you want, as opposed to having to leave the dorm/house an hour before the game to fight the crowd, park, and get to/from the game.

The home viewing experience is light years ahead of where it was even 20 years ago. The balance towards watching from home is much greater than it used to be.

Generally true, but the experience of watching a game at Cameron, especially as a student, is something the TV cameras can't capture. In fact, if you're a Duke student attending a basketball game at Cameron, you're not just watching the game; you feel that you're participating in the game -- and you are. It's a heady experience. I don't know why Duke students are less interested in this experience than they used to be. But it's not just Duke. Allen Field House at Kansas is probably the closest analog to Cameron and students at Kansas aren't going to the games like they used to.

[sagegrouse]

Agree with FDD on this one. As far as records go, there have to be bottom feeders no matter how big the conference gets. So if it wasn't 2-18 BC, it was 2-14 Clemson (just a hypothetical example).

I will take Native's side from a slightly different stance: the smaller conference bred more inter-year animosity, especially with the backdrop of no (or less) OAD. The team continuity meant that you were going to get a Wake Forest team, for example, in Cameron that you just hated. You had a history with them. You wanted to beat the snot out of them. With more teams, you're not guaranteed to see that same team at home next year, let alone have the same players on that team. It is a delicate ecosystem of players/programs and with the (1) increase in conference sizes, (2) OAD culture, and (3) increase in transfers, casual and even some die-hard fans don't have the same storylines to draw their butts into the seats.

- Chillin

Lessee... hard to top the golden age of ACC coaches -- Lefty (thru 1986), Dean, Cremins, Valvano, K, Terry Holland. Equally prominent coaches today -- K, Pitino, Boeheim, Roy, Tony Bennett, Mike Brey plus Larranaga, Leonard Hamilton, Pastner, etc. -- but the sauce is more dilute given the size of the conference and the lack of home-and-home games.

[OldPhiKap]

Generally true, but the experience of watching a game at Cameron, especially as a student, is something the TV cameras can't capture. In fact, if you're a Duke student attending a basketball game at Cameron, you're not just watching the game; you feel that you're participating in the game -- and you are. It's a heady experience. I don't know why Duke students are less interested in this experience than they used to be. But it's not just Duke. Allen Field House at Kansas is probably the closest analog to Cameron and students at Kansas aren't going to the games like they used to.

Don't get me wrong, you're preaching to the choir. I'm talking more in terms of places that are less iconic. Football has an even bigger problem I think, because you're out in the elements for three or four hours. Whether it is a noon game in early September or a night game in November, there is a lot to be said for watching at home these days.

And even in iconic indoor stadiums such as Cameron, Assembly Hall and Phog Allen, well -- for some who attend often, it is easy to get spoiled.

[Atlanta Duke]

As posted above, attendance issues at Cameron are another example of an ongoing problem with younger spectators not being as committed to attending games in person

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette had a long article yesterday on Pitt recognizing it needs to step up its efforts to encourage students (the season ticketholders of tomorrow) to attend games. This student summed up what schools are up against

As the University of Pittsburgh football team was down in South Carolina upsetting No. 1 Clemson last fall, Andrew Bukowski watched it unfold at his house in Oakland with a group of friends. They ordered food, drank beer, and had a great time, he said.

“I think what you find is that you end up enjoying some of the away games more,” Mr. Bukowski, a senior this fall, said.

He has attended nearly all the home games with his student season tickets the past three seasons, but when he graduates and is no longer eligible for such cheap tickets, he anticipates going to one, maybe two games per year.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/college/2017/07/09/NCAA-attendance-Pitt-football-tickets-millennials/stories/201707090131

College and pro sports teams may face rocky times ahead - there are indications that the huge increase in TV rights for games is a bubble about to burst while revenue from ticket sales (and ancillary revenue from parking and concessions) takes a hit because spectators have decided it is a better experience to watch at home rather than in person

[FadedTackyShirt]

Another side effect of far flung expansion is conference games every day but Friday. Ivies still play only Friday and Saturday. PAC-8 also played only F/S (except for the Seattle/Pullman roadie) until the mid-'70s. Blow off studying for a midterm for a crappy game?

[ChillinDuke]

As posted above, attendance issues at Cameron are another example of an ongoing problem with younger spectators not being as committed to attending games in person

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette had a long article yesterday on Pitt recognizing it needs to step up its efforts to encourage students (the season ticketholders of tomorrow) to attend games. This student summed up what schools are up against

As the University of Pittsburgh football team was down in South Carolina upsetting No. 1 Clemson last fall, Andrew Bukowski watched it unfold at his house in Oakland with a group of friends. They ordered food, drank beer, and had a great time, he said.

“I think what you find is that you end up enjoying some of the away games more,” Mr. Bukowski, a senior this fall, said.

He has attended nearly all the home games with his student season tickets the past three seasons, but when he graduates and is no longer eligible for such cheap tickets, he anticipates going to one, maybe two games per year.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/college/2017/07/09/NCAA-attendance-Pitt-football-tickets-millennials/stories/201707090131

College and pro sports teams may face rocky times ahead - there are indications that the huge increase in TV rights for games is a bubble about to burst while revenue from ticket sales (and ancillary revenue from parking and concessions) takes a hit because spectators have decided it is a better experience to watch at home rather than in person

Yeah, I think this about sums it up.

Athletic events have not changed all that much in the last 30 years. But the world certainly has. It is probably an industry ripe for some sweeping change in terms of how people want to consume the content. I have no ties to the industry, but I could think of a lot of ways this can (and probably should) change in order to better match spectator's expectations with the actual service provided. Examples would include (1) a large multiplier on entry points (without a reduction in security measures; basically the stadium would need to refit their entry/exit procedures at their own cost), (2) food and beverage service with server:customer ratios closer to a restaurant/bar, (3) food and beverage options inside the arena viewing area as opposed to outside on a concourse (baseball has largely adopted this model at new stadiums), (4) large viewing areas where people can stand and mingle as opposed to sit down (some baseball stadiums have these).

$0.02

- Chillin

[buddy]

Based on this year's non-conference home schedule I don't look for student attendance to improve.

[sagegrouse]

Another side effect of far flung expansion is conference games every day but Friday. Ivies still play only Friday and Saturday. PAC-8 also played only F/S (except for the Seattle/Pullman roadie) until the mid-'70s. Blow off studying for a midterm for a crappy game?

Heck, the Final Four was on Friday-Saturday through the 1960's -- partial explanation for the Duke loss to UCLA in 1964.