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MHNOLADevil
06-21-2017, 05:07 PM
https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/the-plot-to-disrupt-the-ncaa-with-a-pay-for-play-hbcu-basketball-league This should give us plenty to discuss during these slow off-season summer months.

jacone21
06-21-2017, 05:35 PM
https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/the-plot-to-disrupt-the-ncaa-with-a-pay-for-play-hbcu-basketball-league This should give us plenty to discuss during these slow off-season summer months.

Sounds legit. What could go wrong?

Bob Green
06-21-2017, 05:52 PM
What could go wrong?

Corruption.

TruBlu
06-21-2017, 06:03 PM
Corruption.

unc might get involved?

camion
06-21-2017, 06:58 PM
Is there a reason to have the league tied to educational institutions? I may have missed it.

Jim3k
06-21-2017, 07:10 PM
Is there a reason to have the league tied to educational institutions? I may have missed it.


Marketing.

lotusland
06-21-2017, 07:17 PM
Sounds legit. What could go wrong?

No one will care, no one will watch and it will lose money.

MHNOLADevil
06-21-2017, 08:16 PM
Is there a reason to have the league tied to educational institutions? I may have missed it.

Yes, as a revenue source for badly underfunded HBCUs.

hallcity
06-21-2017, 09:11 PM
This should make Bilas happy. He wants college players to be paid. The problem is that this effort will almost certainly fail demonstrating the folly of this approach. People watch college hoops mostly because of the amateur college connection. There isn't much of a market in the U.S. for minor league professional basketball.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
06-21-2017, 11:29 PM
People watch college hoops mostly because of the amateur college connection. There isn't much of a market in the U.S. for minor league professional basketball.

Do they though? Sure we all do - we are on a Duke fan board. We have relationships with the university. But not every college basketball fan is affiliated with a college. Just look at all the Tar Heel fans who couldn't find Chapel Hill on a map, much less know anyone with a degree from there.

You might be right - this could fail. But I don't take for granted that college affiliation is a must for all fans. Especially given than some HBCU schools are in some dense urban areas that might rally around the idea.

lotusland
06-22-2017, 07:09 AM
Do they though? Sure we all do - we are on a Duke fan board. We have relationships with the university. But not every college basketball fan is affiliated with a college. Just look at all the Tar Heel fans who couldn't find Chapel Hill on a map, much less know anyone with a degree from there.

You might be right - this could fail. But I don't take for granted that college affiliation is a must for all fans. Especially given than some HBCU schools are in some dense urban areas that might rally around the idea.

Yes college revenue sports are built on affiliation with the school by alumni and other fans. My neighbor is a huge Clemson fan. His father and grandfather attended Clemson but he did not. Neither did his brother. Yet their entire family funds Clemson's athletic department and assembles at Death Valley for home football games. His kids grew up decked in orange attire but attend other schools. Yet they still bleed orange. All bigtime programs are funded similarly. This loyalty was built over many decades. The schools have been the constant. You can't recreate it instantly.

wsb3
06-22-2017, 07:32 AM
Yes college revenue sports are built on affiliation with the school by alumni and other fans. My neighbor is a huge Clemson fan. His father and grandfather attended Clemson but he did not. Neither did his brother. Yet their entire family funds Clemson's athletic department and assembles at Death Valley for home football games. His kids grew up decked in orange attire but attend other schools. Yet they still bleed orange. All bigtime programs are funded similarly. This loyalty was built over many decades. The schools have been the constant. You can't recreate it instantly.

Well said.

I did not attend Duke but I have lived & died with Duke 🏀 for over 50 years.

My son's team is Duke & my oldest niece is as diehard a Duke fan as you will find.

YmoBeThere
06-22-2017, 07:47 AM
FWIW, 31+ million tickets to minor league baseball games were purchased in 2016. Some of those in cities not far from major league teams. The Dayton Dragons, a single A team, sold 548,000 tickets. Dayton is 45 minutes from Cincinnati, the major league team they are affiliated with.

Could this work? On a small level, yes. If the teams can keep overhead low such that they can break even on 1,000+ attendance. Howard University men's basketball averaged 1,285 per game in 2016.

lotusland
06-22-2017, 08:19 AM
FWIW, 31+ million tickets to minor league baseball games were purchased in 2016. Some of those in cities not far from major league teams. The Dayton Dragons, a single A team, sold 548,000 tickets. Dayton is 45 minutes from Cincinnati, the major league team they are affiliated with.

Could this work? On a small level, yes. If the teams can keep overhead low such that they can break even on 1,000+ attendance. Howard University men's basketball averaged 1,285 per game in 2016.

Well it "could work" sure, there's a chance, but it's not a very good chance imo. Paying players $50,000 - $100,000 with benefits isn't a good start to keeping overhead low. Minor league baseball doesn't pay that well and it's extremely volitile with teams moving constantly. It's also the farm system supported by the big league teams. Sounds like the mastermind behind this hair brained scheme has an agenda other than making a profit. Perhaps Bilas will invest to help proove that talented players are the key to big time college sports. I predict they will actually be the ones who learn a valuable and expensive lesson.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
06-22-2017, 08:31 AM
Two me it is a question of getting buy in from fans and from players, and which comes first.

Players at that age have hopes of being in the NBA. If you are making $50k for a year or two, but no one is watching you aren't building your brand/draft stock. Kids want to be in packed arenas and on national TV.

Fans want to watch good basketball. The only way I see fans showing up or tuning in is if "one and done" style talent that will be on display at the next level is on the floor. I find it difficult to believe that if this new league had players of one and done caliber that basketball fans wouldn't watch.

Sure, most of us have affiliation with Duke of a degree or two, but I also tune in to watch the Warriors. Never lived in the Bay Area, no Duke players on that roster (closest thing would be Livingston), no family connections with San Francisco or Golden State. I just enjoy good basketball, and I donít think I am unique in that.

Indoor66
06-22-2017, 08:39 AM
Two me it is a question of getting buy in from fans and from players, and which comes first.

Players at that age have hopes of being in the NBA. If you are making $50k for a year or two, but no one is watching you aren't building your brand/draft stock. Kids want to be in packed arenas and on national TV.

Fans want to watch good basketball. The only way I see fans showing up or tuning in is if "one and done" style talent that will be on display at the next level is on the floor. I find it difficult to believe that if this new league had players of one and done caliber that basketball fans wouldn't watch.

Sure, most of us have affiliation with Duke of a degree or two, but I also tune in to watch the Warriors. Never lived in the Bay Area, no Duke players on that roster (closest thing would be Livingston), no family connections with San Francisco or Golden State. I just enjoy good basketball, and I donít think I am unique in that.

For me, the problem is that it is usually not good basketball! Heck, most college games are not good basketball. To posit that you begin by diluting the talent pool by adding more teams and then expect to turn out a quality product that will attract paying fans is the dream of someone smoking wacky tobaccy! :cool:

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
06-22-2017, 08:55 AM
For me, the problem is that it is usually not good basketball! Heck, most college games are not good basketball. To posit that you begin by diluting the talent pool by adding more teams and then expect to turn out a quality product that will attract paying fans is the dream of someone smoking wacky tobaccy! :cool:

Well, if it isn't good basketball, then sure, people won't watch. But, if top players buy in and head to these schools for these opportunities it changes quickly.

As someone who has been saying for a few years that the NCAA may be in danger of losing revenue sports at big colleges (especially with the pending UNC case) , I will be watching this development with interest.

College (revenue) sports is heading towards professional sports. I donít like it, but it feels like a freight train heading down the tracks.

I admittedly have a harder time getting emotionally attached to Duke teams post-2001. The further college sports goes down this road, the more my interest wanes.

It just feels inevitable. And, I have say I am impressed with HBCU schools coming up with a creative solution.

lotusland
06-22-2017, 07:07 PM
Two me it is a question of getting buy in from fans and from players, and which comes first.

Players at that age have hopes of being in the NBA. If you are making $50k for a year or two, but no one is watching you aren't building your brand/draft stock. Kids want to be in packed arenas and on national TV.

Fans want to watch good basketball. The only way I see fans showing up or tuning in is if "one and done" style talent that will be on display at the next level is on the floor. I find it difficult to believe that if this new league had players of one and done caliber that basketball fans wouldn't watch.

Sure, most of us have affiliation with Duke of a degree or two, but I also tune in to watch the Warriors. Never lived in the Bay Area, no Duke players on that roster (closest thing would be Livingston), no family connections with San Francisco or Golden State. I just enjoy good basketball, and I donít think I am unique in that.
This league is not going to resemble Golden State or even a bad NBA team. They'll be like an average Kentucky team at best minus the top coaches and facilities. Most importantly they'll
Be no big blue nation of fans to watch or Louisville fans to watch in order to root against them. The games will be less entertaining than European league games and D league games you are already not watching.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
06-22-2017, 07:48 PM
This league is not going to resemble Golden State or even a bad NBA team. They'll be like an average Kentucky team at best minus the top coaches and facilities. Most importantly they'll
Be no big blue nation of fans to watch or Louisville fans to watch in order to root against them. The games will be less entertaining than European league games and D league games you are already not watching.

I clearly wasn't comparing this new experiment with GSW on talent - I was pointing out that I, like my others, enjoy quality Ball.

Much like Stephen43, I long for $20 shoes, $15 tickets, and an 8 team ACC that plays most games on Saturday afternoons. But a new era is coming one way or another. And I salute HBCUs for out of box thinking.

uh_no
06-22-2017, 09:22 PM
Sure, most of us have affiliation with Duke of a degree or two


clever

opossum
06-23-2017, 02:08 AM
It's an interesting idea. What about Title IX? Hampton couldn't just start paying its male basketball players salaries with benefits without providing equal opportunities for female athletes, could they? I don't think creating a separate entity would save them without defeating the stated purposes of benefiting HBCUs and promoting the endeavor based on old school ties. A minor league basketball team that purchased the rights to call itself the Hampton University Pirates, use their mascots and logos, wear blue and white jerseys, use Hampton University's facilities, enjoy some kind of relationship with the Hampton University admission department that would guarantee its player-employees admission as full-time students, and return the net profits to Hampton University would most likely be viewed as a fig leaf by the Department of Education. Either of those approaches would have to make enough for Hampton University to risk losing all federal funding.

A minor league basketball team calling itself the Hampton, Va. Privateers that only hired full-time Hampton University undergraduates as players (which would be limiting), provided Hampton University tuition, room & board as (taxable) fringe benefits, and didn't use Hampton facilities, logos, mascots or team colors might pass muster with DoE, especially if Hampton University itself continues to field its own amateur men's basketball team and the Hampton Privateers only make a general commitment to donate some profits to Hampton University. But I imagine that would be as compelling to Hampton fans and alums as a similar Durham Orange Devils would be to us.

lotusland
06-23-2017, 07:02 AM
I clearly wasn't comparing this new experiment with GSW on talent - I was pointing out that I, like my others, enjoy quality Ball.

Much like Stephen43, I long for $20 shoes, $15 tickets, and an 8 team ACC that plays most games on Saturday afternoons. But a new era is coming one way or another. And I salute HBCUs for out of box thinking.

If this proposed league succeeded as a going concern that gave OADs and other talented ball players an opportunity to hone their craft apart from the constraints of the NCAAs amateur student athlete rules I would consider it a good thing for college basketball as it would eliminate a lot necessary compromise under the current system. I just don't think it will get off the ground or remain viable. I think the idea that big money college sports is dependent upon hot shot high school ball players is a fallacy. I suspect proposed enhancements to the D league is a better option. Aren't they proposing to increase pay to $50,000 - $75,000 range? Maybe the NBA could have a separate D league draft for HS seniors or some mechanism that at least gave NBA sponsor team an advantage in signing those players when they came of age. That would limit NBA's cap investment in these unproven players and generate some interest and excitement for NBA fans to watch their potential future stars. It's never going to be a billion dollar cash cow but perhaps a healthy farm system at least.

ChillinDuke
06-23-2017, 12:03 PM
If this proposed league succeeded as a going concern that gave OADs and other talented ball players an opportunity to hone their craft apart from the constraints of the NCAAs amateur student athlete rules I would consider it a good thing for college basketball as it would eliminate a lot necessary compromise under the current system. I just don't think it will get off the ground or remain viable. I think the idea that big money college sports is dependent upon hot shot high school ball players is a fallacy. I suspect proposed enhancements to the D league is a better option. Aren't they proposing to increase pay to $50,000 - $75,000 range? Maybe the NBA could have a separate D league draft for HS seniors or some mechanism that at least gave NBA sponsor team an advantage in signing those players when they came of age. That would limit NBA's cap investment in these unproven players and generate some interest and excitement for NBA fans to watch their potential future stars. It's never going to be a billion dollar cash cow but perhaps a healthy farm system at least.

Yeah, I agree. I already don't watch pre-NBA players outside of my allegiance to colleges. If I don't watch the NBADL, Euro leagues, AAU, or HS ball, why would I watch this? And if I'm not a presumed target audience for this, who is? Certainly not casual basketball fans, I wouldn't think.

There are just way too many options to take up people's time these days. It will never happen, but if I had the opportunity to bet money on it, I would wager heavily that the main draw for college ball is the college affiliation. I don't think these players would have a strong market without that. There's too much other stuff to do out there for people to care about the next Jayson Tatum playing for Howard (for $$$) before getting picked #3 in the draft. I mean I can essentially already watch that in AAU ball, and I don't. Plus there's already a subset of people that think the college game is close to (or already is) unwatchable. So this new league would have to have a high enough incremental degree of watchability to offset the loss of the big-name programs' fanbases/markets. Possible? Sure. Probable? Not close.

- Chillin

mgtr
06-28-2017, 08:08 AM
Isn't this similar to the football notion of the XFL, with the addition of a college relationship? Maybe they could call it the XBA. I think I will keep my money in my pocket.