Durant Says Kyrie Better Than Iverson

[sagegrouse]

"Skill for skill (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19637444/kevin-durant-golden-state-warriors-says-kyrie-irving-better-allen-iverson)," Kevin Durant thinks Kyrie may be better than Allen Iverson.

[Billy Dat]

"Skill for skill (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19637444/kevin-durant-golden-state-warriors-says-kyrie-irving-better-allen-iverson)," Kevin Durant thinks Kyrie may be better than Allen Iverson.

I've been making my way through the very long podcast in chunks and just listened to this part. What's funny is that KD says they should edit it out because he doesn't want AI mad at him. Bill Simmons (the person interviewing KD) has, until last year's finals, been very critical of Kyrie but he has done a 180. Breaking with the quants over his defensive deficiencies, he basically is saying that the ability to perform on the biggest stage as fearlessly and effectively as Kyrie does is an intangible that few possess and that title teams require. He really dove into the topic on a podcast after Game 4:

6/10 episode - 9 minute mark
https://theringer.com/bill-simmons-podcast-d3868264a984#.oe7npsvak

[kAzE]

I love Kyrie, but AI carried a team to the finals almost single-handed . . . that was a pretty amazing accomplishment.

There's a toughness that AI had that I will always remember about him. Kyrie is absolutely a top 10 scorer in the league, but AI was an MVP and won 4 scoring titles at the heights of his powers, and was a much better defender (3 time NBA steals leader). I don't think Kyrie is quite there yet. He might get there in the next few years, since he's only 24, but he's not there yet.

[BD80]

"Skill for skill (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19637444/kevin-durant-golden-state-warriors-says-kyrie-irving-better-allen-iverson)," Kevin Durant thinks Kyrie may be better than Allen Iverson.

Must be the practice

[Reddevil]

This is tough because they are so different in every way. On the court, AI was so incredibly quick he would leave you saying, "Holy mackerel, did you see that?!" KI is deceivingly slippery leaving you to say, "Holy mackerel, how did that go in!?" I hate rating top shelf athletes. They can each be great in their own way. It gets even tougher when different eras are involved. I would reluctantly put AI ahead right now, but KI is still writing his resume and climbing.

On another note, I am not sure I would have even said what Durant said. Why go there? Oh well, as a sports fan I can appreciate the entertainment value and shake my head at the same time.

[CDu]

I love Kyrie, but AI carried a team to the finals almost single-handed . . . that was a pretty amazing accomplishment.

There's a toughness that AI had that I will always remember about him. Kyrie is absolutely a top 10 scorer in the league, but AI was an MVP and won 4 scoring titles at the heights of his powers, and was a much better defender (3 time NBA steals leader). I don't think Kyrie is quite there yet. He might get there in the next few years, since he's only 24, but he's not there yet.

Yeah, it's really hard to compare the two. Irving has done nothing without LeBron. Iverson - as you said - carried some of his bad teams, in one case all the way to the Finals. Irving may eventually get there, but he's not there yet.

I think Irving has some traits that are better than Iverson's: dribbling and shooting. Both were scorers and not really PG/passers by nature. Iverson was the better leaper, but much less efficient (in part because Iverson had no help whereas Irving has LeBron and Love). And Iverson was the better defender by a WIDE margin.

That said, Irving is still young, and it's always unfair to compare a work in progress to a finished product. Irving could certainly get there eventually.

[bob blue devil]

could this partly fall into the category of, "the game has evolved" as well as "speed is a talent, not a skill"? i forget, but maybe it was iverson himself, who noted the advancement in ball handling since his day and how guys like kyrie have taken it to the next level. so the idea that kyrie has better skills than iverson while not being as great a player relative to his generation is not inconsistent.

[DukeTrinity11]

I hate it when people consider offense/defense to be an exact 50% split on determining how good a player is.

The best perimeter defender of the past decade is arguably Tony Allen. Don't believe me? Just ask Kobe.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2016/02/27/kobe-bryant-tony-allen-best-defender-ever-faced/81030728/
http://www.basketballanalyticsbook.com/2017/02/01/rating-perimeter-defenders-tony-allen-still-king/

On a scale of 1-10, you'd probably give Allen a 2 on Offense and a 10 on Defense.
On a scale of 1-10, you'd probably give Irving a 2/3 on Defense and a 10 on Offense.

So by this basis, Irving and Allen are equivalent players right? Absolutely not!!! The ability to create your shot off the dribble and shoot efficiently are invaluable skills in the modern NBA and are much more important than being a tenacious defender. The top offensive players like Durant, James, Irving, Curry and Isaiah Thomas will score on you no matter how well you play defense at the end of the day.

If Irving played elite D, he's be the best player in the NBA arguably and Kobe level good. He's only 25 so his prime is still a few years away and I expect him to be better than AI when its all said and done.

[niveklaen]

Yeah, it's really hard to compare the two. Irving has done nothing without LeBron. Iverson - as you said - carried some of his bad teams, in one case all the way to the Finals. Irving may eventually get there, but he's not there yet.

I think Irving has some traits that are better than Iverson's: dribbling and shooting. Both were scorers and not really PG/passers by nature. Iverson was the better leaper, but much less efficient (in part because Iverson had no help whereas Irving has LeBron and Love). And Iverson was the better defender by a WIDE margin.

That said, Irving is still young, and it's always unfair to compare a work in progress to a finished product. Irving could certainly get there eventually.

I agree - Iverson was a very good defender the first half of his career. Later on he stopped trying on defense and focused exclusively on scoring which caused a lot of people to remember him as a bad defender, but engaged Iverson was better than engaged Irving on defense by a wide margin.

[DukeTrinity11]

I agree - Iverson was a very good defender the first half of his career. Later on he stopped trying on defense and focused exclusively on scoring which caused a lot of people to remember him as a bad defender, but engaged Iverson was better than engaged Irving on defense by a wide margin.
Kyrie is a better shooter than AI though by a wide margin.

[NSDukeFan]

Must be the practice

Kyrie is probably a better practice player than AI, but AI has the greater resume from games.

[kAzE]

I think people are fogetting how dominant Iverson was despite being both short AND a mediocre shooter. If he played with today's NBA officiating, he would probably have averaged 35 for multiple years. This is a 5'10" guard who averaged double digit free throw attempts in the late 90s and early 2000s (the hand check rule was established in 2004). To me, AI is still pound-for-pound the best scorer ever.

It's still too early to judge Kyrie, but I can agree that he is more skilled than Iverson at this stage of his career. He's definitely a better shooter and is one of the best finishers at the rim ever. Iverson just had a different mentality that made him special. Irving's indifference on defense really hurts him. If he went as hard as AI did every possession, he'd be a top 5 player in the league.

The best way I can explain it is this: Finals Kyrie is a way better player than regular season Kyrie. Finals AI is the same exact guy as regular season AI.