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Olympic Fan
05-29-2017, 03:59 PM
As usual, I salute all those we served to defend this country -- and especially those who gave their lives.

For the last few years, on every Memorial Day, I watch this six-minute video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omd9_FJnerY

It's a tour of American military cemeteries to the music of John Williams' Hymn to the Fallen (from Saving Private Ryan). Every time I watch it, I get emotional.

I also noticed that TCM has been showing a succession of military movies this weekend. What struck me was how than ran the gamut from almost documentary accuracy (Tora, Tora, Tora) to absolutely fictional entertainment (Where Eagles Dare).

That got me thinking. Could we pick a dozen or so movies that are factually accurate enough to capture the American experience in WWII? Tough task -- the war was so varied and encompassed so many different experiences that no film can come close to capturing them all. Still, I came up with this list (chronological order for the war):

1. Confessions of a Nazi Spy -- Warner Brothers got into trouble for this film. Some right-wing politicians saw it as a pro-war movie at a time when many Americans wanted to stay in the war. Jack Warner's defense was simple -- "It was based on a real Nazi spy ring". But most Americans weren't ready to admit how close to war we were -- the film was a major financial flop.

2. Tora, Tora, Tora -- Not a great movie, but an amazingly accurate depiction of the attack that got us into war. Better special effects than Michael Bay's Pearl Harbor -- and much, MUCH more historically accurate.

3. They Were Expendable -- Based on a true story (even the John Wayne-Donna Reed romance happened). John Ford wasn't going to do this film, but after meeting John Bulkeley (played by Robert Montgomery) off Omaha Beach on June 6, 1944, Ford agreed to do it. He took a leave of absence from the military and directed (IMHO) the greatest WWII film ever made. A brutally honest depiction of defeat in the early days of the war and the sacrifice of those who helped pave the way for the ultimate victory.

4. Midway -- Except for the absurd Charleton Heston subplot, an accurate account of the most decisive naval battle of the war (and one of the three of four most important in world history) -- a miraculous victory that turned the tide of the war in the Pacific.

5. Guadalcanal Diary -- The long and difficult first step back in the island hopping campaign. There are a couple of early episodes of "The Pacific" that tell this story even better.

6. The Story of GI Joe -- The Battle of North Africa and the invasion of Italy as seen through the eyes of famed correspondent Ernie Pyle. The first half of Sam Fuller's The Big Red One also tells this story very well -- and extends it through D-Day and the drive across Europe. Told from the POV of one infantry squad -- by a guy who lived the story.

7. 12 O'Clock High -- Very little action, but a good story of the air war over France and Germany in 1943, when we were fighting for aerial superiority. The story is fictional, but very much real in terms of the issues and people involved.

8. The Longest Day -- A star-studded depiction of the D-Day landings. All the stars made sense, since it was the only way for the audience to keep the huge cast straight. I only regret that they turned the breakout from Omaha Beach into a big battle sequence with Robert Mitchum. A much better example of what really happened was the first half-hour of Saving Private Ryan -- it was small groups of men, led by sergeants and lieutenants that got off that beach -- not a massed effort arranged by any general. Still, Longest Day gives a fairly accurate overview of the great invasion.

9. Breakthrough -- This obscure 1950 movie does a brilliant job of depicting the nightmare of the hedgerows after D-Day, which all ends with the breakout at St. Lo (Operation Cobra) in late July 1944.

10. A Bridge Too Far -- Modeled after Longest Day (both based on books by Cornelius Ryan), it's not quite as good a movie but it does start with the victorious Allies sweeping across France, then details the true story of Montgomery's plan to leapfrog the Rhine by using airborne troops to seize the bridges. Not fun to watch -- they came so close, but the last bridge was one too many and the plan failed.

11. Battleground -- The story of one squad of the 101st Airborne defending Bastogne during the Battle of Bulge. A much better and more honest account of the battle than the overblown Battle of the Bulge.

12. Above and Beyond -- A fairly honest story about training the air crews that would drop the atom bomb on Japan. Too much about Robert Taylor's marriage troubles, but the story about the B-29 unit training and then dropping the bombs that ended the war is well done. Both the Beginning or the End and the more recent Fat Man and Little Boy, which tell the same story, are terribly dishonest films.

13. The Best Years of Their Lives -- A great movie and, although fictional, a great depiction of the homecoming of American GIs, focusing on an infantry sergeant (who happens to be a bank executive), a crippled sailor and a B-17 bombardier.

Those films offer a pretty accurate history of war -- at least from the American perspective. You want more -- I'd add 30 Seconds over Tokyo, The Bridge at Remagen, Operation Pacific (the best depiction of our torpedo problems early in the war), the Enemy Below (the best anti-submarine movie), Stalag 17 (American POWs -- The Great Escape and Bridge on the River Kwai are mostly British with only a couple of token Americans in each) ... the series Band of Brothers and The Pacific offer good overviews. So does Patton. You might want to include a couple of homefront movies -- I especially like the two Sturges comedies Hail the Conquering Hero and The Miracle of Morgan's Creek.

Anyway, those are my suggestions. Anybody got any more (please, let's try to keep them fairly accurate).

jimsumner
05-29-2017, 04:12 PM
As usual, I salute all those we served to defend this country -- and especially those who gave their lives.

For the last few years, on every Memorial Day, I watch this six-minute video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omd9_FJnerY

It's a tour of American military cemeteries to the music of John Williams' Hymn to the Fallen (from Saving Private Ryan). Every time I watch it, I get emotional.

I also noticed that TCM has been showing a succession of military movies this weekend. What struck me was how than ran the gamut from almost documentary accuracy (Tora, Tora, Tora) to absolutely fictional entertainment (Where Eagles Dare).

That got me thinking. Could we pick a dozen or so movies that are factually accurate enough to capture the American experience in WWII? Tough task -- the war was so varied and encompassed so many different experiences that no film can come close to capturing them all. Still, I came up with this list (chronological order for the war):

1. Confessions of a Nazi Spy -- Warner Brothers got into trouble for this film. Some right-wing politicians saw it as a pro-war movie at a time when many Americans wanted to stay in the war. Jack Warner's defense was simple -- "It was based on a real Nazi spy ring". But most Americans weren't ready to admit how close to war we were -- the film was a major financial flop.

2. Tora, Tora, Tora -- Not a great movie, but an amazingly accurate depiction of the attack that got us into war. Better special effects than Michael Bay's Pearl Harbor -- and much, MUCH more historically accurate.

3. They Were Expendable -- Based on a true story (even the John Wayne-Donna Reed romance happened). John Ford wasn't going to do this film, but after meeting John Bulkeley (played by Robert Montgomery) off Omaha Beach on June 6, 1944, Ford agreed to do it. He took a leave of absence from the military and directed (IMHO) the greatest WWII film ever made. A brutally honest depiction of defeat in the early days of the war and the sacrifice of those who helped pave the way for the ultimate victory.

4. Midway -- Except for the absurd Charleton Heston subplot, an accurate account of the most decisive naval battle of the war (and one of the three of four most important in world history) -- a miraculous victory that turned the tide of the war in the Pacific.

5. Guadalcanal Diary -- The long and difficult first step back in the island hopping campaign. There are a couple of early episodes of "The Pacific" that tell this story even better.

6. The Story of GI Joe -- The Battle of North Africa and the invasion of Italy as seen through the eyes of famed correspondent Ernie Pyle. The first half of Sam Fuller's The Big Red One also tells this story very well -- and extends it through D-Day and the drive across Europe. Told from the POV of one infantry squad -- by a guy who lived the story.

7. 12 O'Clock High -- Very little action, but a good story of the air war over France and Germany in 1943, when we were fighting for aerial superiority. The story is fictional, but very much real in terms of the issues and people involved.

8. The Longest Day -- A star-studded depiction of the D-Day landings. All the stars made sense, since it was the only way for the audience to keep the huge cast straight. I only regret that they turned the breakout from Omaha Beach into a big battle sequence with Robert Mitchum. A much better example of what really happened was the first half-hour of Saving Private Ryan -- it was small groups of men, led by sergeants and lieutenants that got off that beach -- not a massed effort arranged by any general. Still, Longest Day gives a fairly accurate overview of the great invasion.

9. Breakthrough -- This obscure 1950 movie does a brilliant job of depicting the nightmare of the hedgerows after D-Day, which all ends with the breakout at St. Lo (Operation Cobra) in late July 1944.

10. A Bridge Too Far -- Modeled after Longest Day (both based on books by Cornelius Ryan), it's not quite as good a movie but it does start with the victorious Allies sweeping across France, then details the true story of Montgomery's plan to leapfrog the Rhine by using airborne troops to seize the bridges. Not fun to watch -- they came so close, but the last bridge was one too many and the plan failed.

11. Battleground -- The story of one squad of the 101st Airborne defending Bastogne during the Battle of Bulge. A much better and more honest account of the battle than the overblown Battle of the Bulge.

12. Above and Beyond -- A fairly honest story about training the air crews that would drop the atom bomb on Japan. Too much about Robert Taylor's marriage troubles, but the story about the B-29 unit training and then dropping the bombs that ended the war is well done. Both the Beginning or the End and the more recent Fat Man and Little Boy, which tell the same story, are terribly dishonest films.

13. The Best Years of Their Lives -- A great movie and, although fictional, a great depiction of the homecoming of American GIs, focusing on an infantry sergeant (who happens to be a bank executive), a crippled sailor and a B-17 bombardier.

Those films offer a pretty accurate history of war -- at least from the American perspective. You want more -- I'd add 30 Seconds over Tokyo, The Bridge at Remagen, Operation Pacific (the best depiction of our torpedo problems early in the war), the Enemy Below (the best anti-submarine movie), Stalag 17 (American POWs -- The Great Escape and Bridge on the River Kwai are mostly British with only a couple of token Americans in each) ... the series Band of Brothers and The Pacific offer good overviews. So does Patton. You might want to include a couple of homefront movies -- I especially like the two Sturges comedies Hail the Conquering Hero and The Miracle of Morgan's Creek.

Anyway, those are my suggestions. Anybody got any more (please, let's try to keep them fairly accurate).

I've long thought that When Trumpets Fade is a much under-rated WWII movie and one of the few movie depictions of the brutal fighting at Hurtgen Forest.

rthomas
05-29-2017, 04:52 PM
30 Seconds over Tokyo

So this isn't a war movie, but I had never heard of this: sort of 30 seconds over Mars Bluff, SC.

http://www.wyff4.com/article/59-years-ago-a-nuclear-bomb-was-accidentally-dropped-on-south-carolina/9127564

On March 11, 1958, a nuclear bomb was accidentally dropped on a small community near Florence, SC. I grew up very close to this and never heard about it until now.

The bombardier was straddling that bomb when it fell through the open bomb bay doors, but held on.

"Incident at Mars Bluff" won the 2010 EMMY for Best Historical Documentary. The film was written, produced and directed by Matt Burrows for South Carolina Educational Television.

Here is the documentary: https://vimeo.com/144980440

tteettimes
05-29-2017, 10:29 PM
Does "Rin Silent Run Deep " belong in there ??-----

Was great movie....great actors/acting

Olympic Fan
05-30-2017, 12:08 AM
Does "Rin Silent Run Deep " belong in there ??-----

Was great movie...great actors/acting

Great movie ... great acting ... yes.

But a totally fictional story that does nothing to teach the history of WWII.

The best you can say is that it was written by a real submariner Edward Beach), so the setting -- a US submarine during WWII) is fairly accurate.

Tom B.
05-30-2017, 02:33 PM
The bombardier was straddling that bomb when it fell through the open bomb bay doors, but held on.




Sorry, couldn't resist.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3edi2Wkr5YI