Remaining spring news

[Olympic Fan]

This has been a tumultuous spring for ACC basketball. 22 undergrads have put their name in the NBA draft (two of those have pulled out, five are still considering their options), 21 have announced plans to transfer out; nine are transferring in (six eligible next year).

Plus, there have been some late recruits -- including a couple of impact guys going to Duke.

Our roster seems to have stabilized after signing six recruits (three five stars, two fours stars and a three star), losing four undergrads to the NBA draft and two more players to transfer. In the last 10 days, we learned that Duke will not get Kevin Knox, but they will replace him with Jordan Tucker, that Frank Jackson is staying in the draft, but that Trevon Duval will play PG at Duke next year.

What still left to be decided?

For Duke, the big news we're waiting on is the outside possibility that the Devils can still add Mo Bamba, the No. 3 prospect in the class. He's still probably going to Texas or Kentucky, but whispers in AAU circles rate Duke a dark horse contender. Just a day or so ago, a so-called insider posted on Rupp's Rafters (the Kentucky equivalent to DBR) that it was a done deal -- Bamba to Duke. I really don't take that seriously (a reverse woof? a message board blowhard), but I do know that the Duke staff is still working the kid hard.

That's the only thing that could really change Duke's fortunes next season. Oh, there might be a grad transfer out there who could be a late addition, but I doubt it -- and even if that were to happen, there's nobody on the market that could make a significant impact next season.

But there is still some significant things to learn in the next couple of weeks that will shape the 2018 ACC.

The most significant are those five ACC players still in the draft who have not hired an agent. As I see it, the most important remaining decisions are:

(1) Tony Bradley, UNC -- more and more talk that he's staying in the draft since his last-second decision not to play in the combine scrimmages. No coincidence that Roy Williams reacted by rushing to Chicago to watch the combine and "support" his kids. Bradley's decision is crucial to the '18 Heels -- I think that with him and Berry, UNC is a borderline top 10 team. Without Bradley, they'll be lucky to be in the top 25.

(2) Deng Adel, Louisville -- Two of the three Louisville undergrads in the draft have hired agents and will stay in -- losing Donovan Mitchell hurts badly. Losing Jaylen Johnson hurts too. If Adel doesn't return, Rick Pitino would have to replace four starters. He's got one five star recruit and a couple of four stars coming in.

(3) Omer Yurtseven and Ted Kapita, NC State -- If Kevin Keatts has a chance to move the Pack up next season, he needs these two big men back. Keatts has whispered that he expects Kapita back, but that Yurtseven is "50-50". I doubt that even with both, State is first division, but they could be the difference between finishing in the 9th-11th range or 12th-14th range.

(5) Donte Graham, Clemson -- less important. Graham, who showed a lot of promise two years ago, was awful last season. Plus, Clemson is going to be far down in the ACC whether they have Graham or not.

All the guys left in draft limbo have to decide by May 24 at the latest.

There is one major recruiting target out there (other than Bamba). Five-star shooting guard M.J. Walker is looking at FSU, Georgia Tech and Virginia Tech (plus UCLA, Ohio State and several SEC schools). He could make a big impact at any of those schools.

Finally, NC State has applied for a sixth year for guard Terry Henderson (who missed one year to transfer and almost one year to injury). Keatts said that he expect to hear a decision on Henderson by the end of the week.

Keatts, who already has two grad transfers on board, is still looking for transfer talent ... as is Jim Boeheim at Syracuse and Kevin Stallings at Pitt (and several others as well, but those are the most active). There are likely to be some late additions, but no one is out there at the moment who would have a significant impact on the ACC next season.

[BD80]

This has been a tumultuous spring for ACC basketball. 22 undergrads have put their name in the NBA draft (two of those have pulled out, five are still considering their options), 21 have announced plans to transfer out; nine are transferring in (six eligible next year).

Plus, there have been some late recruits -- including a couple of impact guys going to Duke.

Our roster seems to have stabilized after signing six recruits (three five stars, two fours stars and a three star), losing four undergrads to the NBA draft and two more players to transfer. In the last 10 days, we learned that Duke will not get Kevin Knox, but they will replace him with Jordan Tucker, that Frank Jackson is staying in the draft, but that Trevon Duval will play PG at Duke next year.

What still left to be decided?

For Duke, the big news we're waiting on is the outside possibility that the Devils can still add Mo Bamba, the No. 3 prospect in the class. He's still probably going to Texas or Kentucky, but whispers in AAU circles rate Duke a dark horse contender. Just a day or so ago, a so-called insider posted on Rupp's Rafters (the Kentucky equivalent to DBR) that it was a done deal -- Bamba to Duke. I really don't take that seriously (a reverse woof? a message board blowhard), but I do know that the Duke staff is still working the kid hard.

That's the only thing that could really change Duke's fortunes next season. Oh, there might be a grad transfer out there who could be a late addition, but I doubt it -- and even if that were to happen, there's nobody on the market that could make a significant impact next season.

But there is still some significant things to learn in the next couple of weeks that will shape the 2018 ACC.

The most significant are those five ACC players still in the draft who have not hired an agent. As I see it, the most important remaining decisions are:

(1) Tony Bradley, UNC -- more and more talk that he's staying in the draft since his last-second decision not to play in the combine scrimmages. No coincidence that Roy Williams reacted by rushing to Chicago to watch the combine and "support" his kids. Bradley's decision is crucial to the '18 Heels -- I think that with him and Berry, UNC is a borderline top 10 team. Without Bradley, they'll be lucky to be in the top 25.

(2) Deng Adel, Louisville -- Two of the three Louisville undergrads in the draft have hired agents and will stay in -- losing Donovan Mitchell hurts badly. Losing Jaylen Johnson hurts too. If Adel doesn't return, Rick Pitino would have to replace four starters. He's got one five star recruit and a couple of four stars coming in.

(3) Omer Yurtseven and Ted Kapita, NC State -- If Kevin Keatts has a chance to move the Pack up next season, he needs these two big men back. Keatts has whispered that he expects Kapita back, but that Yurtseven is "50-50". I doubt that even with both, State is first division, but they could be the difference between finishing in the 9th-11th range or 12th-14th range.

(5) Donte Graham, Clemson -- less important. Graham, who showed a lot of promise two years ago, was awful last season. Plus, Clemson is going to be far down in the ACC whether they have Graham or not.

All the guys left in draft limbo have to decide by May 24 at the latest.

There is one major recruiting target out there (other than Bamba). Five-star shooting guard M.J. Walker is looking at FSU, Georgia Tech and Virginia Tech (plus UCLA, Ohio State and several SEC schools). He could make a big impact at any of those schools.

Finally, NC State has applied for a sixth year for guard Terry Henderson (who missed one year to transfer and almost one year to injury). Keatts said that he expect to hear a decision on Henderson by the end of the week.

Keatts, who already has two grad transfers on board, is still looking for transfer talent ... as is Jim Boeheim at Syracuse and Kevin Stallings at Pitt (and several others as well, but those are the most active). There are likely to be some late additions, but no one is out there at the moment who would have a significant impact on the ACC next season.

Thank you for the post. It is refreshing to get solid information, particularly when compiled concisely

[whereinthehellami]

(1) Tony Bradley, UNC -- more and more talk that he's staying in the draft since his last-second decision not to play in the combine scrimmages. No coincidence that Roy Williams reacted by rushing to Chicago to watch the combine and "support" his kids. Bradley's decision is crucial to the '18 Heels -- I think that with him and Berry, UNC is a borderline top 10 team. Without Bradley, they'll be lucky to be in the top 25.

7424


If Bradley stays at UNC, which I think he will, I still like Duke better on paper but UNC might be tougher than I was hoping. Berry is going to be a POY candidate and you gotta think that Pinson is going to have a solid SR campaign. I can't believe that Pinson is a SR. I got a bad feeling that his shooting will be decent this year. His FT% has increased every year. Bradley is the wildcard, they get him back they have three potential All-ACC players. Without Bradley they will have to plug in a 3 or 4-star freshman big man.

The size and length of the Duke lineup over UNC would be impressive.

[Natty_B]

Found this to be a pretty good summary:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19396358/college-basketball-shaped-decisions-players

[Natty_B]

7424


If Bradley stays at UNC, which I think he will, I still like Duke better on paper but UNC might be tougher than I was hoping. Berry is going to be a POY candidate and you gotta think that Pinson is going to have a solid SR campaign. I can't believe that Pinson is a SR. I got a bad feeling that his shooting will be decent this year. His FT% has increased every year. Bradley is the wildcard, they get him back they have three potential All-ACC players. Without Bradley they will have to plug in a 3 or 4-star freshman big man.

The size and length of the Duke lineup over UNC would be impressive.

UNC rando's say Bradley didn't do the 5 on 5 because of a tweaked ankle - FWIW. I found Roy's interview from the combine to be odd at best, and pretty gross at worst. He was going on about how players should stay unless they get a LOTTERY guarantee and life as a college player is pretty good (I hear life as a millionaire as opposed to a broke college student is also pretty good but that's me) and the NBA isn't going out of business (ok yeah but the years a player has to earn money is finite unlike the NBA business model). Anyway if K had done something similar the internet would have melted. So based on all that (and that he doesn't seem to be a first round lock) I expect Bradley to stay.

[atoomer0881]

Remaining spring news

...

Thank you for this clear and concise list of what's still remaining. Good to see it all in one place. Things I am most interested in is the Tony Bradley decision and Mo Bamba (though I've already assume he isn't picking Duke -- this way if he does, it's a pleasant surprise, but if he does't I won't be disappointed. Plus between him and Duval, it was Duval who I really wanted and thought we really needed).

[arnie]

UNC rando's say Bradley didn't do the 5 on 5 because of a tweaked ankle - FWIW. I found Roy's interview from the combine to be odd at best, and pretty gross at worst. He was going on about how players should stay unless they get a LOTTERY guarantee and life as a college player is pretty good (I hear life as a millionaire as opposed to a broke college student is also pretty good but that's me) and the NBA isn't going out of business (ok yeah but the years a player has to earn money is finite unlike the NBA business model). Anyway if K had done something similar the internet would have melted. So based on all that (and that he doesn't seem to be a first round lock) I expect Bradley to stay.

Roy does a superior job recruiting his existing players to remain at his bball academy. K and the other coaches of upper echelon schools recognize that the NBA is the goal of many. I also suspect Bradley returns to receive whatever bennies are handed out.

[westwall]

Just a day or so ago, a so-called insider posted on Rupp's Rafters (the Kentucky equivalent to DBR) that it was a done deal -- Bamba to Duke. I really don't take that seriously (a reverse woof? a message board blowhard)

It was serious if said on the Rafters "I don't want to jinx it thread".

[Duke79UNLV77]

UNC rando's say Bradley didn't do the 5 on 5 because of a tweaked ankle - FWIW. I found Roy's interview from the combine to be odd at best, and pretty gross at worst. He was going on about how players should stay unless they get a LOTTERY guarantee and life as a college player is pretty good (I hear life as a millionaire as opposed to a broke college student is also pretty good but that's me) and the NBA isn't going out of business (ok yeah but the years a player has to earn money is finite unlike the NBA business model). Anyway if K had done something similar the internet would have melted. So based on all that (and that he doesn't seem to be a first round lock) I expect Bradley to stay.

First, there is no such thing as a "broke college student" on the UNC basketball team. They should at least have a free rental car, beach rental house, etc.

This is par for the course for Ole Roy. I remember Barnes saying where Roy had him projected in the draft after his freshman year. It was well below where anyone else had him projected. I remember Roy saying how the NBA wasn't interested in players who lost early in the NCAA tournament when Hairston and Bullock returned for an extra year. Then, when poor Roy had to do without Hairston due to his rental car/drug dealing ways, Roy said that Hairston in practice was playing better than any guard he'd coached since Jordan.

[El_Diablo]

The audio is not great for this interview, but Bradley has some quotes that make me think he's gone:

On his skills: "I am definitely a stretch four. I can play the five too. My game you saw at Carolina is completely different from what I will play in the NBA. . . . They didn't see all the stuff I can do. I can put the ball on the floor. I am very versatile. I can shoot the three. I can shoot the NBA three. That is what I tried to show the scouts today --- the shooting."

On whether he will go back to school if told by GMs he that is not going to go in the first: "We'll see."

On whether he has a goal in terms of draft position next year if he were to return for another year of school: "Uhh, I haven't thought that far ahead."

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/video-tony-bradley-2017-nba-draft-combine/#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss

[arnie]

The audio is not great for this interview, but Bradley has some quotes that make me think he's gone:

On his skills: "I am definitely a stretch four. I can play the five too. My game you saw at Carolina is completely different from what I will play in the NBA. . . . They didn't see all the stuff I can do. I can put the ball on the floor. I am very versatile. I can shoot the three. I can shoot the NBA three. That is what I tried to show the scouts today --- the shooting."

On whether he will go back to school if told by GMs he that is not going to go in the first: "We'll see."

On whether he has a goal in terms of draft position next year if he were to return for another year of school: "Uhh, I haven't thought that far ahead."

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/video-tony-bradley-2017-nba-draft-combine/#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss
Smart kid. You do realize these statements are just posturing for more bennies fro old Roy.

[Olympic Fan]

So Mo Bamba commits to Texas ...

And Jeff Goodman just reported that NC State's Ted Kapita is hiring an agent and staying in the draft ...

That's two useful players from State who have declared for the draft even though they don't have a prayer of being drafted (Kapita and Maverick Rowan)

The Pack is still waiting on Yurtseven, who at last report was 50-50 about staying in.

Still waiting on Bradley, Adel and Graham ... plus a decision by top 25 guard MJ Walker

[JasonEvans]

That's two useful players from State who have declared for the draft even though they don't have a prayer of being drafted (Kapita and Maverick Rowan)

The decision-making process here is very interested. Though we refer to guys like this as "entering the NBA draft" the reality is that they have decided to begin their pro basketball careers, despite knowing they probably won't start out in the top tier of the profession. They each have a fairly small chance of making a NBA roster, but they hope to earn money in the DLeague or overseas and perhaps someday get noticed by a NBA team and realize their dream that way. They may end up on someone's summer league team and could even get a training camp invite, if they don't want to go directly overseas. Regardless, this is not about the NBA Draft, it is about them getting paid to play hoops.

-Jason "I wish them well... they are giving up a college degree to pursue a big dream" Evans

[Bob Green]

-Jason "I wish them well... they are giving up a college degree to pursue a big dream" Evans

Not really, one can always earn a college degree later in life. I was 41 when I earned my B.A. and 44 when I earned my M.A..

[devildeac]

Not really, one can always earn a college degree later in life. I was 41 when I earned my B.A. and 44 when I earned my M.A..

Where does the B.S. part get mentioned?

(kidding, Bob, kidding-sorry, couldn't resist :o)

[JetpackJesus]

I hear life as a millionaire as opposed to a broke college student is also pretty good but that's me.

I'm sure Fats and co. will make sure no student athlete on UNC's basketball team lives the life of a broke college student.

[Olympic Fan]

Okay, almost all the questions have been answered:

Bradley is staying in the draft.
Deng Adel will return to Louisville.
Omer Yurtseven will return to NC State
Donte Graham will return to Clemson
Ted Kapita is not returning to NC State (although he's not going to be drafted)

And FSU landed ML Walker, a very good shooting guard (No. 25 on ESPN's list)

The only one of my original questions still unanswered is Jay Henderson's status. The NC State guard is still waiting on the NCAA's ruling to his appeal for a sixth season.

There are still a few recruits out there (including Brian Bowen, a top 20 prospect, but not really considering an ACC school), but none that should significantly alter the ACC landscape next season. There will be a few more transfers (in and out), but none expect that should make a huge difference in the upcoming season.

There is the Cam Johnson transfer, but even adding him to UNC's roster wouldn't make up for Bradley's loss. That's if the UNC PR machine (headed by Jay Bilas) can pressure Pitt to allow the transfer in-conference.

So now I guess it's time to start measuring what the ACC will look like next year --- I don't want to start that here, but we ought to have a thread looking at that sometime soon.

[Troublemaker]

So now I guess it's time to start measuring what the ACC will look like next year --- I don't want to start that here, but we ought to have a thread looking at that sometime soon.

Are you sure we can't transition this thread (which has been an excellent ACC-dedicated summary thread, thanks) into that thread? Like you said, there's not too much news remaining after today, so this thread would just sink to the bottom.

I'll start by NOT ranking the ACC teams but by playing a lightning-round game called Improves / Maintains / Declines, which is hopefully self-explanatory.

Improves - Duke, UVA, Miami, NCSU, BC
Maintains - Louisville, ND, Va Tech, Ga Tech, Wake, Clemson
Declines - UNC, FSU, Syracuse, Pitt

Some of my teams in the "Maintains" bucket may have lost key contributors (e.g. Wake with Collins, Clemson with Blossomgame) but I am counting on improvement from the returnees to make up the difference. I haven't really put much thought into this; this is just initial reaction to where their rosters stand.

[Olympic Fan]

Are you sure we can't transition this thread (which has been an excellent ACC-dedicated summary thread, thanks) into that thread? Like you said, there's not too much news remaining after today, so this thread would just sink to the bottom.

I'll start by NOT ranking the ACC teams but by playing a lightning-round game called Improves / Maintains / Declines, which is hopefully self-explanatory.

Improves - Duke, UVA, Miami, NCSU, BC
Maintains - Louisville, ND, Va Tech, Ga Tech, Wake, Clemson
Declines - UNC, FSU, Syracuse, Pitt

Some of my teams in the "Maintains" bucket may have lost key contributors (e.g. Wake with Collins, Clemson with Blossomgame) but I am counting on improvement from the returnees to make up the difference. I haven't really put much thought into this; this is just initial reaction to where their rosters stand.

I'm still trying to put this together, but off the top of my head, the one I disagree with is Virginia Tech in the maintain column. Yes, they lost LeDay and Allen, but they return five starters (Allen and LeDay came off the bench) and regain Kerry Blackshear, their best big man who missed all of last year, and Chris Clarke, their best all-around player, who was lost at midseason with an injury. They also add a five star shooting guard recruit. I expect the Hokies to be significantly stronger next season (and we play them twice!).

I would also suggest Wake declines ... I don't think they fall off a cliff or anything, but the loss of Collins is huge for them -- and they don't have anything like a replacement.

Virginia is interesting -- they lost their best player to graduation and three other veterans to transfer, but as Guy and Jerome move into the starting lineup, their offensive improves. But their best additions appear to be a pair of redshirts. Not sure they will be better .. still pondering that one.

Allow me to break it down a different way:

Upper echelon (in alphabetical order): Duke, Louisville, Miami, Notre Dame and Virginia Tech ... maybe UNC (I'm not sure -- and I'm sure this one creates a major debate ... I'm not ready to get into that now, although I might be soon)

Middle echelon: Florida State, Georgia Tech, Virginia, Wake Forest (and maybe UNC)

Lower echelon: Boston College, Clemson, N.C. State, Pitt and Syracuse ... the only pick I'm sure of is Pitt at No. 15. If the Panthers don't finish dead last, then Stallings has to be in the running for ACC COY.

[Wander]

Are you sure we can't transition this thread (which has been an excellent ACC-dedicated summary thread, thanks) into that thread? Like you said, there's not too much news remaining after today, so this thread would just sink to the bottom.

I'll start by NOT ranking the ACC teams but by playing a lightning-round game called Improves / Maintains / Declines, which is hopefully self-explanatory.

Improves - Duke, UVA, Miami, NCSU, BC
Maintains - Louisville, ND, Va Tech, Ga Tech, Wake, Clemson
Declines - UNC, FSU, Syracuse, Pitt

Some of my teams in the "Maintains" bucket may have lost key contributors (e.g. Wake with Collins, Clemson with Blossomgame) but I am counting on improvement from the returnees to make up the difference. I haven't really put much thought into this; this is just initial reaction to where their rosters stand.

That's a good way to start before doing the absolute rankings. I would change it by:

1. Moving Duke from "improves" to "maintains" (of course, there was a whole thread on this subject, so we don't need to revisit the debate right now)
2. Moving Va Tech from "maintains" to "improves"
3. Moving UVA from "improves" to "declines" (this is based more on the regular season ACC record of last year's UVA team and not the embarrassing NCAA tournament performance)

[English]

Are you sure we can't transition this thread (which has been an excellent ACC-dedicated summary thread, thanks) into that thread? Like you said, there's not too much news remaining after today, so this thread would just sink to the bottom.

I'll start by NOT ranking the ACC teams but by playing a lightning-round game called Improves / Maintains / Declines, which is hopefully self-explanatory.

Improves - Duke, UVA, Miami, NCSU, BC
Maintains - Louisville, ND, Va Tech, Ga Tech, Wake, Clemson
Declines - UNC, FSU, Syracuse, Pitt

Some of my teams in the "Maintains" bucket may have lost key contributors (e.g. Wake with Collins, Clemson with Blossomgame) but I am counting on improvement from the returnees to make up the difference. I haven't really put much thought into this; this is just initial reaction to where their rosters stand.

Sorry, perhaps it's self-explanatory and I'm completely dense this evening...are the designations I/M/D with respect to conference standings, regular season record, or team ability?

For example, I think Duke may actually maintain its talent pool and regular season record (give or take a game or two), but improve its standing in the conference (better than fifth).

[Troublemaker]

Sorry, perhaps it's self-explanatory and I'm completely dense this evening...are the designations I/M/D with respect to conference standings, regular season record, or team ability?

For example, I think Duke may actually maintain its talent pool and regular season record (give or take a game or two), but improve its standing in the conference (better than fifth).

Team ability. Basically, how good you think they are. No schedule analysis needed.



I would also suggest Wake declines ... I don't think they fall off a cliff or anything, but the loss of Collins is huge for them -- and they don't have anything like a replacement.

I think you've convinced me on Wake. I really like their backcourt (Crawford, Childress, Woods, etc), but yeah, they'll need Mitoglou to really raise his level as a senior and also a surprise season from Doral Moore to not drop off some. It should be noted that Moore used to be a 4-star recruit, though.


I'm still trying to put this together, but off the top of my head, the one I disagree with is Virginia Tech in the maintain column. Yes, they lost LeDay and Allen, but they return five starters (Allen and LeDay came off the bench) and regain Kerry Blackshear, their best big man who missed all of last year, and Chris Clarke, their best all-around player, who was lost at midseason with an injury. They also add a five star shooting guard recruit. I expect the Hokies to be significantly stronger next season (and we play them twice!).



2. Moving Va Tech from "maintains" to "improves"

Hmmm, I'll have to take a closer look at the Hokies. I was actually hesitant about putting them in "Maintains" because I thought people would insist they belonged in "Declines" so I'm surprised you guys are saying "Improves".

I know LeDay and Allen came off the bench, but imo, they were VaTech's two best players. That they came off the bench was, imo, quirky Buzz Williams trying hard to add to his quirky rep. (I love Buzz, btw. Just saying...)

[JasonEvans]

Given so many youngsters and roster turnover, I dunno how I would categorize Duke. I guess maintains feels more accurate than improves to me at this point, though certainly there is tremendous potential to improve and one could argue that the roster is better constructed (positions and player expectations) than last year's team.

[ndkjr70]

As far as preseason predictions goes between last year's and this, Duke is by far in the "Declines". Of course that doesn't mean much, but if you were able to in theory pit this team's talent against last year's, I'd pick last year's 10 times out of 10. On paper, we were an absolute mammoth last season.

[Olympic Fan]

As far as preseason predictions goes between last year's and this, Duke is by far in the "Declines". Of course that doesn't mean much, but if you were able to in theory pit this team's talent against last year's, I'd pick last year's 10 times out of 10. On paper, we were an absolute mammoth last season.

If you are just talking raw talent level, I'd agree -- going by Chad Ford's latest mock, Duke could have three lottery picks and a fourth first-round pick next month ... and that doesn't count Amile or Matt, who were two terrific, experienced college players.

But at the same time, I could easily see next year's team finishing with a better record and going deeper into the NCAA Tournament. Just give the 2018 Devils decent health and I think the roster fits together better. But there is not the same level of talent ... not even close.

The same applies to NC State -- you have them improving. I assume you expect Coach KK to outcoach Got ... that's certainly possible. But no way the 2018 Pack has much talent with Dennis Smith leaving (not to mention Rowan, Kapita and probably Henderson). Next year's team may fit together better and may play better (I say "may") but in terms of talent, they take a big hit.

As for Va Tech -- a year ago, Allen and LeDay were their top scorers. But Clarke was -- before he was hurt -- their best player. He was their best defender, their best rebounder, their No. 2 assist man and their No. 3 scorer when he went out. He shot 58.8 percent from the floor. He definitely can take Allen's place. Blackshear showed great promise as a freshman -- he's the best big man in their program. He replaces LeDay. They also return Justin Robinson (one of the three best PGs in the ACC), Justin Bibbs, Ahmed Hill and Ty Outlaw (who exploded late in the season after he replaced the injured Clarke in the starting lineup. That doesn't count Sy, who started 28 games in Blackshear's absence or Alexander-Walker, who is the fifth-rated prospect coming into the ACC this year.

Virginia Tech has depth, talent and experience. With Blackshear and Cy, they actually have two big men for a change. This core group has gone 29-13 over the last 42 games. They've gone 10-8 in the ACC in each of the last two seasons.

Yeah, I think they are better next season -- both in talent (with Clarke, Alexander-Walker and Blackshear replacing Allen and LeDay) an in prospects.

[ndkjr70]

If you are just talking raw talent level, I'd agree -- going by Chad Ford's latest mock, Duke could have three lottery picks and a fourth first-round pick next month ... and that doesn't count Amile or Matt, who were two terrific, experienced college players.

But at the same time, I could easily see next year's team finishing with a better record and going deeper into the NCAA Tournament. Just give the 2018 Devils decent health and I think the roster fits together better. But there is not the same level of talent ... not even close.

The same applies to NC State -- you have them improving. I assume you expect Coach KK to outcoach Got ... that's certainly possible. But no way the 2018 Pack has much talent with Dennis Smith leaving (not to mention Rowan, Kapita and probably Henderson). Next year's team may fit together better and may play better (I say "may") but in terms of talent, they take a big hit.

As for Va Tech -- a year ago, Allen and LeDay were their top scorers. But Clarke was -- before he was hurt -- their best player. He was their best defender, their best rebounder, their No. 2 assist man and their No. 3 scorer when he went out. He shot 58.8 percent from the floor. He definitely can take Allen's place. Blackshear showed great promise as a freshman -- he's the best big man in their program. He replaces LeDay. They also return Justin Robinson (one of the three best PGs in the ACC), Justin Bibbs, Ahmed Hill and Ty Outlaw (who exploded late in the season after he replaced the injured Clarke in the starting lineup. That doesn't count Sy, who started 28 games in Blackshear's absence or Alexander-Walker, who is the fifth-rated prospect coming into the ACC this year.

Virginia Tech has depth, talent and experience. With Blackshear and Cy, they actually have two big men for a change. This core group has gone 29-13 over the last 42 games. They've gone 10-8 in the ACC in each of the last two seasons.

Yeah, I think they are better next season -- both in talent (with Clarke, Alexander-Walker and Blackshear replacing Allen and LeDay) an in prospects.

Regular season ACC record I'd agree with, and I certainly think they'll go further in the NCAAs, though I don't think that's a good barometer of how good a team is. For example, I think last year's team beats the previous Sweet-16 year's team 10 times out of 10.

[Olympic Fan]

Regular season ACC record I'd agree with, and I certainly think they'll go further in the NCAAs, though I don't think that's a good barometer of how good a team is. For example, I think last year's team beats the previous Sweet-16 year's team 10 times out of 10.

Before yous tart figuring things like that, I do think you have to study the schedules. Duke is going to play a MUCH easier ACC schedule next season. And it's starting to look like the the non0-conference schedule will be a great deal more challenging.

[Troublemaker]

As far as preseason predictions goes between last year's and this, Duke is by far in the "Declines". Of course that doesn't mean much, but if you were able to in theory pit this team's talent against last year's, I'd pick last year's 10 times out of 10. On paper, we were an absolute mammoth last season.

I would say last season's team had much better "on paper depth" but I think next season's "on paper starters" can match up well with last season's "on paper starters."

[brlftz]

Plus, we know how good last year's team actually was, so we don't need to talk about them "on paper". In the end they were a good team but nothing special, and for the coming season I think we will exceed their results, even if it's only because odds are we won't be as injury-riddled. I am firmly in the "Improves" camp.

[budwom]

I would say last season's team had much better "on paper depth" but I think next season's "on paper starters" can match up well with last season's "on paper starters."

yup, last year our bench could beat up your bench, even if they didn't get to play.

[Olympic Fan]

As for Va Tech -- a year ago, Allen and LeDay were their top scorers. But Clarke was -- before he was hurt -- their best player. He was their best defender, their best rebounder, their No. 2 assist man and their No. 3 scorer when he went out. He shot 58.8 percent from the floor. He definitely can take Allen's place. Blackshear showed great promise as a freshman -- he's the best big man in their program. He replaces LeDay. They also return Justin Robinson (one of the three best PGs in the ACC), Justin Bibbs, Ahmed Hill and Ty Outlaw (who exploded late in the season after he replaced the injured Clarke in the starting lineup. That doesn't count Sy, who started 28 games in Blackshear's absence or Alexander-Walker, who is the fifth-rated prospect coming into the ACC this year.

Virginia Tech has depth, talent and experience. With Blackshear and Cy, they actually have two big men for a change. This core group has gone 29-13 over the last 42 games. They've gone 10-8 in the ACC in each of the last two seasons.

Yeah, I think they are better next season -- both in talent (with Clarke, Alexander-Walker and Blackshear replacing Allen and LeDay) an in prospects.

The more I research this, the more I like Virginia Tech next year. I forgot that they redshirted Devin Wilson, a serviceable ACC guard (he went out for football and that made him late to rejoin their basketball team. He's not a great player, but he's got something like 15 starts in his career. Also, VPI could add Johnny Hamilton, a 7-footer who missed all but three games last year with a broken toe. Again, not a great player, but a solid three-string center.

Virginia Tech is trading two good players -- LeDay and Allen -- for Clarke, Blackshear, five-star Alexander Walker, Devin Wilson and Johnny Hamilton, plus the added experience for last year's starting five. And that's adding to a 25-win, NCAA team.

[Troublemaker]

Brian Bowen, the only remaining uncommitted top-25 recruit in the class of 2017, visited Louisville today (http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/louisville/2017/05/31/louisville-cardinals-basketball-reportedly-hosts-five-star-wing-brian-bowen-campus-visit/357503001/). The Cards even got a couple of Crystal Ball predictions in for Bowen, but not sure how meaningful those picks are.

But yeah, the ACC picture isn't quite set yet with Bowen out there and Cam Johnson still possible to UNC IF they can get Pitt to remove the block.

[Troublemaker]

Brian Bowen, the only remaining uncommitted top-25 recruit in the class of 2017, visited Louisville today (http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/louisville/2017/05/31/louisville-cardinals-basketball-reportedly-hosts-five-star-wing-brian-bowen-campus-visit/357503001/). The Cards even got a couple of Crystal Ball predictions in for Bowen, but not sure how meaningful those picks are.

But yeah, the ACC picture isn't quite set yet with Bowen out there and Cam Johnson still possible to UNC IF they can get Pitt to remove the block.

Bowen to Louisville now has a ton of momentum in the Crystal Ball.

[MChambers]

Bowen to Louisville now has a ton of momentum in the Crystal Ball.

Does that make the Ball roll?

[Olympic Fan]

Does that make the Ball roll?

Just like Knox to Duke!

[gam7]

Bowen to Louisville now has a ton of momentum in the Crystal Ball.

This is huge news for Louisville. I have said it many times here, but will say it one more time - Bowen is tremendous, very Rip Hamilton-esque. He does a ton of things that result in his teams winning a lot. This is a setback for Michigan State - I have to think Miles Bridges decision to return had some impact here...

[whereinthehellami]

The more I research this, the more I like Virginia Tech next year. I forgot that they redshirted Devin Wilson, a serviceable ACC guard (he went out for football and that made him late to rejoin their basketball team. He's not a great player, but he's got something like 15 starts in his career. Also, VPI could add Johnny Hamilton, a 7-footer who missed all but three games last year with a broken toe. Again, not a great player, but a solid three-string center.

Virginia Tech is trading two good players -- LeDay and Allen -- for Clarke, Blackshear, five-star Alexander Walker, Devin Wilson and Johnny Hamilton, plus the added experience for last year's starting five. And that's adding to a 25-win, NCAA team.

Totally agree with the above. And Buzz Williams is a grinder of a coach who has team buy-in. VT will be tough for sure.

[Billy Dat]

This is huge news for Louisville. I have said it many times here, but will say it one more time - Bowen is tremendous, very Rip Hamilton-esque. He does a ton of things that result in his teams winning a lot. This is a setback for Michigan State - I have to think Miles Bridges decision to return had some impact here...

I thought Bowen was really good when I saw him in the televised end-of-year All Star games. This is a heck of a pick-up for Pitino and Co.

[gam7]

I thought Bowen was really good when I saw him in the televised end-of-year All Star games. This is a heck of a pick-up for Pitino and Co.

Yeah, and his team (at La Lumiere, a relatively normal high school, I think, as compared to the Oak Hills and Findlay Preps of the world) won the Dick's national championship this year and lost on a buzzer beater to Oak Hill in the finals last year. (He had some help at La Lumiere with another McDonald's All-American and Michigan State commit, Michigan commit, and a top 25 PG from the class of 2019, but still....) Coach K's quote about Singler's role being "winner" will also apply to Bowen.

I've been wondering why it has taken him so long to announce (which he hasn't even really even done yet), and I think a couple of good explanations are that (1) Miles Bridges' decision to return; and (2) his high school coach at La Lumiere was hired a month ago as an assistant at DePaul, which may have given him some unexpected things to think about (though it doesn't explain the Louisville emergence, which seems to have come out of left field).

[JasonEvans]

Brian Bowen says he will announce on Saturday afternoon...

...but this is one announcement with zero drama because yesterday Bowen enrolled in summer school classes at Louisville. He waited so long to make his pick, he got scooped by his own matriculation. That doesn't happen very often!

I suppose Bowen could still pick some other school, but it sure seems like he is a lock for Louisville. They are going to be quite good next season. I put them along side Duke as the pre-season conference favorites.

-Jason "Pitino always does a great job of landing guys who can D it up... Bowen is no exception" Evans

[BD80]

Brian Bowen says he will announce on Saturday afternoon...

...but this is one announcement with zero drama because yesterday Bowen enrolled in summer school classes at Louisville. He waited so long to make his pick, he got scooped by his own matriculation. That doesn't happen very often!

I suppose Bowen could still pick some other school, but it sure seems like he is a lock for Louisville. They are going to be quite good next season. I put them along side Duke as the pre-season conference favorites.

-Jason "Pitino always does a great job of landing guys who can D it up... Bowen is no exception" Evans

I'll bet the Crystal Ball prediction will look pretty favorable for Looeyville today

[English]

Reviving this thread as some preseason ACC nuggets have come out this week...although it's mid-summer, not spring, so perhaps mods could find a more suitable home? I couldn't find a more relevant thread on the first few pages of the forum.

First, Matt Norlander over at CBSSports gives some general ACC hoops analysis, including his early power rankings. He tabs Miami as the top contender in the league, with unx second, and Duke taking the bronze.
http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/acc-early-power-rankings-miami-is-no-1-after-jumping-unc-duke-and-louisville/

Of course, 24hrs later, Miami super recruit Lonnie Walker tears his meniscus at practice and will miss some-to-all of the season, depending on surgery, recovery, & rehab. Major bummer for a promising player, although certainly not career ending (barring something unforeseen).
http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/five-star-miami-freshman-lonnie-walker-suffers-torn-meniscus-during-practice/

[Natty_B]

Reviving this thread as some preseason ACC nuggets have come out this week...although it's mid-summer, not spring, so perhaps mods could find a more suitable home? I couldn't find a more relevant thread on the first few pages of the forum.

First, Matt Norlander over at CBSSports gives some general ACC hoops analysis, including his early power rankings. He tabs Miami as the top contender in the league, with unx second, and Duke taking the bronze.
http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/acc-early-power-rankings-miami-is-no-1-after-jumping-unc-duke-and-louisville/

Of course, 24hrs later, Miami super recruit Lonnie Walker tears his meniscus at practice and will miss some-to-all of the season, depending on surgery, recovery, & rehab. Major bummer for a promising player, although certainly not career ending (barring something unforeseen).
http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/five-star-miami-freshman-lonnie-walker-suffers-torn-meniscus-during-practice/

Ranking UNC no 2 based on Cam Johnson just doesn't make sense to me - seems like the drama of his transfer is influencing his stock - he's good but not THAT good.

Norlander tweeted that Walker might be back in December - good news for the kid.

[Troublemaker]

Ranking UNC no 2 based on Cam Johnson just doesn't make sense to me - seems like the drama of his transfer is influencing his stock - he's good but not THAT good.

Norlander tweeted that Walker might be back in December - good news for the kid.

Agreed, and I think he has Louisville too low. I'd probably go with tri-favorites -- Duke, Miami, Louisville -- with injury luck, schedule luck, and close game luck (or skill if you prefer) deciding who finishes first.

[CDu]

I am not sold on Miami. They lost their best perimeter guy and their best interior guy to graduation. I might argue we are better at all five starting spots and comparable on the bench.

While I think Cam Johnson will replace the overrated Jackson on offense, he won't do it defensively. And their frontcourt is going to be so much worse.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I am not sold on Miami. They lost their best perimeter guy and their best interior guy to graduation. I might argue we are better at all five starting spots and comparable on the bench.

While I think Cam Johnson will replace the overrated Jackson on offense, he won't do it defensively. And their frontcourt is going to be so much worse.

So who's good in your opinion? Duke has an amazing starting 5 and arguably one of the worst benches in the ACC. Also, Coach K hasn't won the ACC reg season outright since 2006.

[Troublemaker]

So who's good in your opinion? Duke has an amazing starting 5 and arguably one of the worst benches in the ACC. Also, Coach K hasn't won the ACC reg season outright since 2006.

What?! Very arguable, I'd say. Even though this team doesn't have the depth of 5-star talent that we've become accustomed to, the talent on Duke's bench is still going to be more than most ACC teams' benches.

A guy like Javin Delaurier probably isn't a bad player; he was just stuck behind 5-star talent last season and therefore didn't play. That won't be a problem for him this season. Nor for White, Tucker, Vrank, etc. I don't know exactly which 2 of those guys will take advantage of this playing time opportunity, but most likely, Duke will have a 6th and 7th man who are good ACC basketball players.

Again, the problem isn't that a 4-star or 3-star player is bad. It's just that at Duke they are stuck behind 5-star talent usually.

[Devil549]

The Cheaters will not be bad with good guard play but who plays inside for them?

Roy has the weakest front line to start the season he has had since the 2010 NIT season I just don't seem them as a regular season contender.

Of course what is a regular season championship really mean in the era of unbalance schedules?

[CDu]

So who's good in your opinion? Duke has an amazing starting 5 and arguably one of the worst benches in the ACC. Also, Coach K hasn't won the ACC reg season outright since 2006.

I think you are either vastly overrating other teams' benches or vastly underrating ours. We have a top-40 recruit sophomore and two top-75 recruit freshmen coming off the bench. Feel free to tell me who on Miami's bench is clearly better than that.

As far as "who is good in the ACC?" I think it is a down year for the conference, and if we stay healthy we should be at the top. I think there are some decent teams out there, but nothing like last year. All the top teams suffered tremendous attrition, and most did not restock sufficiently.

UVa will find a way to be decent. They lost their PG, but have a lot returning and their system just seems to work in the regular season. I think UNC will be decent, but their frontcourt really made that team by generating a bazillion second chances, and all of them are gone. I think Miami will be decent like ast year, but their improvement will be largely a function of other teams getting worse. Louisville should be good despite losing Mitchell, Mathiang, and Johnson. Probably not quite as good, but probably #2. I think Notre Dame will take a step back too with the departures of Vasturia and Beachem, as an already shallow roster gets moreso. But they will still be decent.

Of course, someone has to win games, so some records will get inflated in conference. But I really don't think there is a team that looks better than ours in conference this year.

As for the "Coach K hasn't won an ACC regular season outright since 2006: so? We shared it in 2010. Again, so? Prior to this past March when was the last time we won the ACC tourney? 2011. That is about as long as since we won the regular season, and that drought didn't keep us from cutting down the nets did it?

If you ask me to pick Duke over the field in the ACC, I would not do so without serious odds. But compared to any other specific team? I would absolutely take Duke's squad.