Welcome to Duke, Jordan Tucker!

[kAzE]

https://twitter.com/Therealjtucks/status/863424049023725568

Finally, some good news! I'm very excited about this kid, he seems like a great kid and he can shoot the lights out.

Welcome to Duke!

[brlftz]

Wooooo hoooooo!!!!!!!

[TKG]

https://twitter.com/Therealjtucks/status/863424049023725568

Finally, some good news!!

Agree! Been working the beads pretty hard, recently, for good news for the Blue Devils.

[kAzE]

If you click the screenshot on his tweet, he says (to his dad): "I hope I can make you proud for the next 4 years."

Music to my ears.

[chriso]

Wooooo hoooooo!!!!!!!

Yes!!! Puts down malt liquor...wait it's Saturday! Gulp gulp. :) This kid can really shoot. Very happy.

[Spanarkel]

At the Nike EYBL in ATL and just watched Coach Boeheim check his cell phone at noon! No expression(as usual) on his face.He probably knew ahead of time. Let's go, Duke!

[NSDukeFan]

That's very exciting great news. Welcome to Duke!

[curtis325]

Welcome!

[ndkjr70]

I REALLY wanted Knox but everything I have read about this kid makes me feel like we may have benefitted from his commitment elsewhere. Sounds like Tucker is the kind of kid who will see the floor an okay amount his freshman year and not immediately have a foot out the door.

[DaleDuke7]

If you click the screenshot on his tweet, he says (to his dad): "I hope I can make you proud for the next 4 years."

Music to my ears.

I noticed that too. Love to hear that. But I'm still not convinced that he's around 4 years no matter what. If he improves and shows that he's a consensus first round pick sometime before his senior year. I expect him to leave, and won't fault him for it either. At this point, I'm just trying to enjoy whatever time we have with the top talent we continue to bring in.

[lotusland]

Yes!!! Puts down malt liquor...wait it's Saturday! Gulp gulp. :) This kid can really shoot. Very happy.

Why not a celebratory colt 45?

[lotusland]

I noticed that too. Love to hear that. But I'm still not convinced that he's around 4 years no matter what. If he improves and shows that he's a consensus first round pick sometime before his senior year. I expect him to leave, and won't fault him for it either. At this point, I'm just trying to enjoy whatever time we have with the top talent we continue to bring in.

$?&@! All these 4 year guys who may not stay all 4-years!!!

[plimnko]

good to have someone that WANTS to be at duke!!!

[Troublemaker]

It's kinda crazy. If you had told me two weeks ago, we'd soon have "Welcome to Duke, [Point Guard]" and "Welcome to Duke, [Big Wing]" threads, I'd have never imagined I'd be 0-for-2 in filling in the blanks correctly.

Welcome to Duke, Jordan. Make it rain 3s in Cameron.

[chriso]

good to have someone that WANTS to be at duke!!!

Yes. And in his photo next to Coach K noticed this kid has some good size. :)

[CameronBlue]

Why not a celebratory colt 45?

Beats the customary random collection of screws my car mechanic just returned to me along with his familiar quizzical shrug. I love Mark Jacobson Toyota. Let's take a Tucker out for a spin!!

[OldPhiKap]

Welcome!!!!

[wsb3]

Maybe it's not over...

[OldPhiKap]

Maybe it's not over...

No, it's over. Boozer is done.

[richardjackson199]

Saw this posted as a reply to his twitter announcement:

http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/705777-jim-boeheims-jacket-removal

Also kinda funny that less than 2 weeks ago, Josh Pastner was ribbing the Eastern Kentucky coach for having K swoop in and steal his recruit. My friend in Atlanta tells me Georgia Tech really thought they would get Tucker.

[duke74]

Maybe it's not over...

It's not over until we say it is. 😉

[DukieInBrasil]

Nice to have him, the second Jordan on the team!
I was thinking about his development over time and how he might compare to Luke Maye, who was 97 in ESPN and like 135 or something on 247. So Jordan comes in with considerably more of a reputation, although similar size as Maye. Maye wasn't all that productive as a Fr., and honestly wasn't super impressive as a So., but he was a solid, smart player who happened to have a humongous game at just the right time.
Jordan doesn't have a reputation as a super-athletic kind of guy, and the only mix tape i saw of him featured a grand total of 0 dunks, but he seems to be a pretty good outside shooter.
Jordan has some competition at his position, and Trent Jr. will probably be the nominal SF/Wing/3, while Jack White and O'Connell fit the SF/3 position, but O'Connell has a lower reputation and is more of a tall SG. White is almost identical in size to Jordan, but a bit heavier.
If Duval commits to Duke, we'll have Grayson, Duval, and Trent Jr as our "rotation" guards, with Jordan2, White and O'Connell as backcourt depth. Frontcourt will have Carter, Bolden, Vrank and Javin. I could see Jordan getting a few minutes in most games, although i'm not sure that counts as "rotation", particularly if K makes good on his observation that he needs to start playing more guys.

[mgtr]

I am a car guy, so of course I noted that Jordan Tucker is named for two (former) cars. So welcome, sir.

[CDu]

Nice to have him, the second Jordan on the team!
I was thinking about his development over time and how he might compare to Luke Maye, who was 97 in ESPN and like 135 or something on 247. So Jordan comes in with considerably more of a reputation, although similar size as Maye. Maye wasn't all that productive as a Fr., and honestly wasn't super impressive as a So., but he was a solid, smart player who happened to have a humongous game at just the right time.
Jordan doesn't have a reputation as a super-athletic kind of guy, and the only mix tape i saw of him featured a grand total of 0 dunks, but he seems to be a pretty good outside shooter.
Jordan has some competition at his position, and Trent Jr. will probably be the nominal SF/Wing/3, while Jack White and O'Connell fit the SF/3 position, but O'Connell has a lower reputation and is more of a tall SG. White is almost identical in size to Jordan, but a bit heavier.
If Duval commits to Duke, we'll have Grayson, Duval, and Trent Jr as our "rotation" guards, with Jordan2, White and O'Connell as backcourt depth. Frontcourt will have Carter, Bolden, Vrank and Javin. I could see Jordan getting a few minutes in most games, although i'm not sure that counts as "rotation", particularly if K makes good on his observation that he needs to start playing more guys.

I would expect one of Tucker and O'Connell to get pretty good minutes, actually. Even if we get Duval. Right now we have just Allen and Trent as surefire rotation guys. Coach K will absolutely play at least four and sometimes five guards/wings in the main rotation. So even if Duval commits, at least one of the wings (likely O'Connell or Tucker) will play meaningful minutes.

[richardjackson199]

Yes!!! Puts down malt liquor...wait it's Saturday! Gulp gulp. :) This kid can really shoot. Very happy.

I'm saving my malt liquor for the Duval announcement. In the meantime, we can start an MMMM... Malt Liquor Thread, Hops are Overrated to compete with Ymm Beer on Off-Topic. If Duval and Bamba become wildcats, we can spend next season debating the fine nuances of Colt 45, Schlitz, Steel Reserve, and Olde English 800. I'm going with King Cobra, because they eat mambas, and probably wildcats too.

[chriso]

I'm saving my malt liquor for the Duval announcement. In the meantime, we can start an MMMM... Malt Liquor Thread, Hops are Overrated to compete with Ymm Beer on Off-Topic. If Duval and Bamba become wildcats, we can spend next season debating the fine nuances of Colt 45, Schlitz, Steel Reserve, and Olde English 800. I'm going with King Cobra, because they eat mambas, and probably wildcats too.
Sounds good. I like beer but malt liquor makes me see double and throw up. :) A good ale is called for today!

[DukieInBrasil]

I would expect one of Tucker and O'Connell to get pretty good minutes, actually. Even if we get Duval. Right now we have just Allen and Trent as surefire rotation guys. Coach K will absolutely play at least four and sometimes five guards/wings in the main rotation. So even if Duval commits, at least one of the wings (likely O'Connell or Tucker) will play meaningful minutes.

Do you think either/both of those guys are gonna play ahead of Jack White? Seems to me that all 3 more or less play the same position. With one more year in the system, and solid production in his extremely limited time on the court, it seems to me that White gets 1st crack at it.

[Olympic Fan]

I have not seen this kid play, except on a couple of mix tapes, but based on what I've read or heard from people I respect, I think Andre Dawkins is a better comp for Tucker than Luke Maye (as one poster suggests). It's hard to compare rankings, since Dawkins was such a late re-classification that he never showed up in the 2009 class rankings, but he was likely just outside the top 25 in that class, somewhere in the 30s ... close to Tucker's No. 40 in ESPN (the final RSCI is not out yet).

Of course, we'll never know long-term until we find out what kind of work ethic the kid has and how strong he is mentally, but in physical terms, he's not a great athlete, but he's better than Maye. Yes, he's close to Maye in height, but he has a much better vertical and is quicker ... Maye is probably stronger.

The big difference is skills -- the strength of Tucker's game at the moment is his shooting ability. He needs to work on his handle and on his defensive game .,.. sound like anybody we know with the initials AD?

I hope that Tucker can play the same kind of role in 2016-17 that freshman Andre Dawkins played in 2010 -- as a spot-up shooter off the bench. Beyond that, I hope he does a better job of developing his game than Dawkins (who, to be fair, had to deal with some very serious off-court stuff).

I like the front page comparison with Knox, in that Knox is likely to be significantly better as a freshman, but as a 3-4 year player, Tucker is likely to contribute more over the course of his career than a OAD.

In a way, it's like Kenny Anderson vs. Bobby Hurley. Over his two years at Georgia Tech, Anderson had more individual success than Hurley at Duke. But Anderson left after two years and Hurley had two more great years. His four years were a greater contribution than Anderson's two. You could say the same thing about Joel Berry vs. Tyus Jones ... both were freshmen in 2015, when Tyus blew him away ... but Berry has stayed and has given the Cheats three (and soon to be four) years, including a national title and another Final Four. Tyus was the better player, but Berry has had the better college career.

[DukieInBrasil]

I have not seen this kid play, except on a couple of mix tapes, but based on what I've read or heard from people I respect, I think Andre Dawkins is a better comp for Tucker than Luke Maye (as one poster suggests). It's hard to compare rankings, since Dawkins was such a late re-classification that he never showed up in the 2009 class rankings, but he was likely just outside the top 25 in that class, somewhere in the 30s ... close to Tucker's No. 40 in ESPN (the final RSCI is not out yet).

Of course, we'll never know long-term until we find out what kind of work ethic the kid has and how strong he is mentally, but in physical terms, he's not a great athlete, but he's better than Maye. Yes, he's close to Maye in height, but he has a much better vertical and is quicker ... Maye is probably stronger.

The big difference is skills -- the strength of Tucker's game at the moment is his shooting ability. He needs to work on his handle and on his defensive game .,.. sound like anybody we know with the initials AD?

I hope that Tucker can play the same kind of role in 2016-17 that freshman Andre Dawkins played in 2010 -- as a spot-up shooter off the bench. Beyond that, I hope he does a better job of developing his game than Dawkins (who, to be fair, had to deal with some very serious off-court stuff).

I like the front page comparison with Knox, in that Knox is likely to be significantly better as a freshman, but as a 3-4 year player, Tucker is likely to contribute more over the course of his career than a OAD.

In a way, it's like Kenny Anderson vs. Bobby Hurley. Over his two years at Georgia Tech, Anderson had more individual success than Hurley at Duke. But Anderson left after two years and Hurley had two more great years. His four years were a greater contribution than Anderson's two. You could say the same thing about Joel Berry vs. Tyus Jones ... both were freshmen in 2015, when Tyus blew him away ... but Berry has stayed and has given the Cheats three (and soon to be four) years, including a national title and another Final Four. Tyus was the better player, but Berry has had the better college career.

Nice critique. If Tucker does in fact play a similar role to that of Dre during their respective Fr seasons, that would be great, seeing as how that team also only had 3 backcourt players aside from Dre. As you point out, if Tucker is able to develop other facets of his game during his career, his value expands a lot when compared to Dre. One important difference though, Dre had an awesome vertical and was really quite athletic in the run-jump way. Another important difference, Jordan is considerably taller than Dre and could probably develop into a stretch-4 player during his career and should be a significantly better rebounder. Jordan could develop into a "poor man's" Tatum/Ingram (could being the operative word).
Since there really is such a strong drop off in career production at Duke for players ranked 35 or below, it seems Tucker is right in that area of potentially being a solid starter as a Jr or Sr, and possibly providing good minutes in a limited role as a Fr. It does seem quite likely that his career arc is likely higher than Luke Maye, but seeing as how Maye already has 1 Natty, Jordan and his teammates have a lot of work to do...

[westwall]

Do you think either/both of those guys are gonna play ahead of Jack White? Seems to me that all 3 more or less play the same position. With one more year in the system, and solid production in his extremely limited time on the court, it seems to me that White gets 1st crack at it.


This makes sense to me. Based on a year's experience, White gets the 1st crack --- and, like Tucker, he can shoot the long ball.

[Pghdukie]

I'm saving my malt liquor for the Duval announcement. In the meantime, we can start an MMMM... Malt Liquor Thread, Hops are Overrated to compete with Ymm Beer on Off-Topic. If Duval and Bamba become wildcats, we can spend next season debating the fine nuances of Colt 45, Schlitz, Steel Reserve, and Olde English 800. I'm going with King Cobra, because they eat mambas, and probably wildcats too.

I'm still trying to figure out who starred in the 1st Lite beer from Miller commercial!

[Doria]

Welcome to Duke, Jordan. I hope you enjoy playing here as much as I'm sure you will enjoy the school!

[bob blue devil]

good news. welcome to duke, jordan.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

It's not over until we say it is. 😉

Was it over when Frank Jackson bombed Pearl Harbor??

[moonpie23]

AWESOME!!!! Welcome to the family...


BRING IT!!!!

[Kedsy]

It's hard to compare rankings, since Dawkins was such a late re-classification that he never showed up in the 2009 class rankings, but he was likely just outside the top 25 in that class, somewhere in the 30s ... close to Tucker's No. 40 in ESPN (the final RSCI is not out yet).

From research I did at the time, Andre Dawkins was ranked around 20 or so in the 2010 class. How that would have translated to the 2009 class is anybody's guess, but I doubt it would have been nearly so low as Jordan Tucker's #46 in the summer RSCI. It will be interesting to see if Jordan's rank moves much in the final RSCI, but if anything I'm guessing his rating moves more toward the mid-50s than it does the low 40s (if I'm reading their websites properly, he appears since last summer to have dropped from #42 to #68 in Rivals, from #38 to #51 in 247, and from #39 to #40 in ESPN). So, at least from a recruiting ranking perspective, he seems to be a lesser prospect than Andre Dawkins.

That said, as others have pointed out he has a real shot at playing time in 2017-18, as regardless of rank he's in a similar situation to Andre D. If we get Duval, we still need a fourth perimeter player which should be an open competition among Jordan, Alex, and Jack, and one would think that shooting ability would be a key component in that competition. If we don't get Duval, then two of those three guys should see rotation minutes (again with shooting being a premium attribute).

[Olympic Fan]

Just to put this signing into context, Jordan Tucker is the eighth highest rated prospect signed by an ACC school this season (so far). The list of top 100 ACC recruits (based on the ESPN rankings, since the final RSCI rankings aren't posted)

4. Wendell Carter, Duke
7. Gary Trent, Duke
12. Lonnie Walker, Miami
20. Niekiel Alexander-Walker, Virginia Tech
26. Jalek Felton, UNC
27. Malik Williams, Louisville
31. Chaundee Brown, Wake Forest
40. Jordan Tucker, Duke
45. Chris Lykes, Miami
50. D.J. Harvey, Notre Dame
51. Darius Perry, Louisville
53. Jordan Nwora, Louisville
70. Wabissa Bede, Virginia Tech
80. Ikey Obiagu, Florida State
84. Alex O'Connell, Duke
91. Deng Gak, Miami
94. Lavar Batts, NC State

There are three guys still out there that could change that list -- No. 3 Mo Bamba and No. 5 Trevor Duval (both considering Duke) and No. 25 M.J. Walker (considering Florida State)

I think the list is interesting because it shows that in the context of ACC incoming talent, both Tucker and O'Connell are significant additions.

[Kedsy]

I think the list is interesting because it shows that in the context of ACC incoming talent, both Tucker and O'Connell are significant additions.

Yes, that is interesting. To think that the entire ACC would only have four top-25 freshman and 17 top-100 freshman sort of boggles the mind a little.

[royalblue]

At the Nike EYBL in ATL and just watched Coach Boeheim check his cell phone at noon! No expression(as usual) on his face.He probably knew ahead of time. Let's go, Duke!

I hope Tucker takes it to the Cuse!
I normally don't like Duke playing a game in Greensboro that could be in Cameron but I would be in favor of Any Cuse games that Jim coaches being there.

[CDu]

Do you think either/both of those guys are gonna play ahead of Jack White? Seems to me that all 3 more or less play the same position. With one more year in the system, and solid production in his extremely limited time on the court, it seems to me that White gets 1st crack at it.

I think both would play over White. Even given White's year of experience.

[lotusland]

This makes sense to me. Based on a year's experience, White gets the 1st crack --- and, like Tucker, he can shoot the long ball.

Some new guys are going to have to shoot the ball for Duke this year. Trent looks like the second option after Grayson but seems like his 3 point % in HS was pretty pedestrian. Even so, we'll need a third and maybe a 4th option in the rotation. Between Tucker, White and O'Connell, whoever can make shots is going to play some. White has good size and rebounds aggressively so he's the best 3/4 option. Tucker seems like a 3/2 and O'Connell seems like a 2/3. We'll have more depth at 4 than 3 so whoever plugs in best at the 3 spot is likely to make the rotation. If we don't get Duval, one of those 3 may even start. Depending on Carter's free throw shooting, we might actually Grayson, Trent and 2-3 of those guys, depending on Duval, on the court for stall ball.

[bob blue devil]

not sure what to make of the recruiting services divergence on tucker. espn is the most bullish at #40, while scout doesn't even have him in their top 100 - that's a massive discrepency. 247 clocks him in at #51, while rivals has him at #68. i believe scout used to have the best reputation, but i'm not sure if that still holds.

[lotusland]

I think both would play over White. Even given White's year of experience.

I never feel comfortable projecting freshmen. One thing that hampers freshmen is playing tentatively and looking lost despite being very talented. I thought Jack played with assertiveness in his limited minutes last year. He just seems to have unusual confidence shooting and rebounding. and he's going to have another year experience on the new guys. I'm in the camp that thinks Jack is a future starter at Duke whether it be as a junior or senior. I can't project anything for Alex and Jordan at this point. If they play ahead of Jack it will be because they're pretty good not that Jack is not ready imo. I just don't see a Czyz or Pocious like Duke career for Jack.

[Spanarkel]

Just to put this signing into context, Jordan Tucker is the eighth highest rated prospect signed by an ACC school this season (so far). The list of top 100 ACC recruits (based on the ESPN rankings, since the final RSCI rankings aren't posted)

4. Wendell Carter, Duke
7. Gary Trent, Duke
12. Lonnie Walker, Miami
20. Niekiel Alexander-Walker, Virginia Tech
26. Jalek Felton, UNC
27. Malik Williams, Louisville
31. Chaundee Brown, Wake Forest
40. Jordan Tucker, Duke
45. Chris Lykes, Miami
50. D.J. Harvey, Notre Dame
51. Darius Perry, Louisville
53. Jordan Nwora, Louisville
70. Wabissa Bede, Virginia Tech
80. Ikey Obiagu, Florida State
84. Alex O'Connell, Duke
91. Deng Gak, Miami
94. Lavar Batts, NC State

There are three guys still out there that could change that list -- No. 3 Mo Bamba and No. 5 Trevor Duval (both considering Duke) and No. 25 M.J. Walker (considering Florida State)

I think the list is interesting because it shows that in the context of ACC incoming talent, both Tucker and O'Connell are significant additions.

I know that MJ Walker recently took an official visit to VaTech, and his HS coach believes Walker's final 4 to be Ohio State(with Greg Paulus as lead recruiter), Florida State, Virginia Tech and Georgia Tech(with possibility of UCLA).
http://ohiostate.247sports.com/Article/Georgia-basketball-guard-MJ-Walker-top-25-prospect-closing-in-on-52730235

[weezie]

Handsome young man! Congratulations Jordan and welcome to Cameron.

[NashvilleDevil]

Maybe it's not over...

Only when Duke loses their first game of the year will it be over.

[kmspeaks]

Only when Duke loses their first game of the year will it be over.

Loses? You only have to wait for them to best a team by 12 when DBR feels it should have been 20 before the "this team can't win a title" posts start.

[Lauderdevil]

I love this. In the two Jordans and Alex, we're seeing the upperclass leadership of three and four years from now. It's exactly what a lot of us have wanted. If we can get Duval as well, this offseason, rocky as it has been, will have created the foundation for a top 10 team this year and possibly beyond.

[CharlestonDave]

I love this. In the two Jordans and Alex, we're seeing the upperclass leadership of three and four years from now. It's exactly what a lot of us have wanted. If we can get Duval as well, this offseason, rocky as it has been, will have created the foundation for a top 10 team this year and possibly beyond.

You nailed it !!! Absolutely agree with you .

[Saratoga2]

I REALLY wanted Knox but everything I have read about this kid makes me feel like we may have benefitted from his commitment elsewhere. Sounds like Tucker is the kind of kid who will see the floor an okay amount his freshman year and not immediately have a foot out the door.

He appears to be a nice kid from a good family and he fills a void that we currently had with the loss of Knnox to Kentucky. I look forward to seeing this kid play and grow as a Duke small forward. There has been a lot of negative news of late and this definitely reverses that trend.

[IrishDevil]

I love this. In the two Jordans and Alex, we're seeing the transfer rumor fodder one to two years from now. It's exactly what a lot of us have wanted. If we can get Duval as well, this offseason, rocky as it has been, will have created the foundation for a top 10 team this year and possibly beyond.

FIFY :cool:

In all seriousness, I hope that your original statement holds true and we see a leadership core emerge and hold together for three or four years. Time will tell.

[DukieTiger]

I love Jordan Tucker already. The guy waited and waited for a Duke offer, and finally got one. He knew he was their second choice, but waited anyway. It takes a remarkable humility from a high major athlete to show that kind of patience. And it also shows that he really LOVES Duke.

He may be rated lower than they typical Duke rotation player, but he looks like a sure fire 4-year guy. I wonder if there is a way to value a former top-50 high school recruit when he becomes a college senior. He will likely be a top 25 senior- at least in terms of his HS pedigree. That gives real stability to a program. Different than guys like Vrank/White/Goldwire, and I mean them no offense.

This may not be a flashy get, but I think it's a huge get for the program!

[Bluedevil114]

I love Jordan Tucker already. The guy waited and waited for a Duke offer, and finally got one. He knew he was their second choice, but waited anyway. It takes a remarkable humility from a high major athlete to show that kind of patience. And it also shows that he really LOVES Duke.

He may be rated lower than they typical Duke rotation player, but he looks like a sure fire 4-year guy. I wonder if there is a way to value a former top-50 high school recruit when he becomes a college senior. He will likely be a top 25 senior- at least in terms of his HS pedigree. That gives real stability to a program. Different than guys like Vrank/White/Goldwire, and I mean them no offense.

This may not be a flashy get, but I think it's a huge get for the program!

Agreed. I bet we look back in two years and Jordan will be a blessing in disguise for Duke.

[MarkD83]

Only when Duke loses their first game of the year will it be over.

I am actually hoping Duke struggles early next year so that we on this board suppress our expectations and also so K is forced to play all 11 players in tight ball games.

Along those lines we have 1 player with any experience in tight college games and he needs to develop a very "tough skin" for next year. I expect all Duke opponents to use the "JJ" approach to playing Duke. They will grab, elbow, taunt, trip and do whatever they can to get Grayson off his game. They will then take their chances against a team with NO experience in college games that are close in the later stages of the 2nd half.


Grayson Allen
Javin DeLaurier
Marques Bolden
Antonio Vrankovic
Jack White
Justin Robinson
Wendell Carter
Gary Trent, Jr.
Jordan Tucker
Alex O’ Connell
Jordan Goldwire

[Duke76]

Agreed. I bet we look back in two years and Jordan will be a blessing in disguise for Duke.

looking at the tape of Jordan, he sorta bounces off defenders the way Luke did, has a few spin moves that look like Luke. He has great form on his open jump shots with his body going straight up...think we got a real steal here

[lotusland]

I am actually hoping Duke struggles early next year so that we on this board suppress our expectations and also so K is forced to play all 11 players in tight ball games.

Along those lines we have 1 player with any experience in tight college games and he needs to develop a very "tough skin" for next year. I expect all Duke opponents to use the "JJ" approach to playing Duke. They will grab, elbow, taunt, trip and do whatever they can to get Grayson off his game. They will then take their chances against a team with NO experience in college games that are close in the later stages of the 2nd half.


Grayson Allen
Javin DeLaurier
Marques Bolden
Antonio Vrankovic
Jack White
Justin Robinson
Wendell Carter
Gary Trent, Jr.
Jordan Tucker
Alex O’ Connell
Jordan Goldwire
I'm not sure how early struggles equals playing all 11 players. Unless, by early struggles, you mean blowout losses that produce garbage minutes at the end. Otherwise closes games and playing from behind usually results in a tighter rotation especially to close out the game. Winning the game is always paramount.

[MarkD83]

I'm not sure how early struggles equals playing all 11 players. Unless, by early struggles, you mean blowout losses that produce garbage minutes at the end. Otherwise closes games and playing from behind usually results in a tighter rotation especially to close out the game. Winning the game is always paramount.

In 2018

If Gary and Grayson struggle at the point guard position put Jordan G. in to see how he does.
If Marques and Wendell get in foul trouble, don't go small, put in Vrank, Javin and Justin
If we have trouble with shooting put in Jack, Jordan T. and Alex rather than hoping Grayson gets hot...

Coach K's quote at the end of this year about playing the bench more tells me that when the team struggled in 2017 that he shortened his bench too much.
Winning is paramount but to have players develop they need to play so that when they face late game situations when it is most critical they have the experience.

The 2018 Duke team has ONE experienced player who is ONE meltdown away from being tossed from a key game. I love Grayson but this is my scary thought in 2018 even if we get two more great recruits.

In 2017 there were four players to lean on with experience and Duke did well late in the year even with a short bench because there were four experienced players. Not so in 2018....

[sagegrouse]

I'm not sure how early struggles equals playing all 11 players. Unless, by early struggles, you mean blowout losses that produce garbage minutes at the end. Otherwise closes games and playing from behind usually results in a tighter rotation especially to close out the game. Winning the game is always paramount.

Of course, "early struggles" could mean that six players foul out. Then we'd have to play eleven. :rolleyes:

[ndkjr70]

The overwhelming negativity in this forum makes me shudder to see what you people would do if Duke ever came into a season without a top-5 recruiting class and a former all American senior captain leading the way.

[kAzE]

The overwhelming negativity in this forum makes me shudder to see what you people would do if Duke ever came into a season without a top-5 recruiting class and a former all American senior captain leading the way.

What "overwhelming negativity"?

We've gotten an unusual amount of bad news this offseason, but 95% of posts I see aren't negative at all. I don't think it's negative to express disappointment (as long as no one is being bashed . . . I don't support the "AMF" posts). It's a perfectly normal reaction with sports fans when things don't go our way. DBR has been around for decades now and there have been plenty of seasons in which we did not have a top 5 recruiting class or a senior AA captain, and this board has been fine. Not sure what you are expecting from a sports fan board.

[Olympic Fan]

The overwhelming negativity in this forum makes me shudder to see what you people would do if Duke ever came into a season without a top-5 recruiting class and a former all American senior captain leading the way.

How long have you been on these boards -- it's ALWAYS overwhelmingly negative.

Even when Duke is rolling, we are bombarded by complaints that K doesn't play enough players, that his teams shoot too many 3s, that he won't play non-conference road games ...

So what that K's Duke program is the single most successful college basketball program over the last 30 years ... just think how much better it would be if he listened to his critics on this board

[Wander]

The overwhelming negativity in this forum makes me shudder to see what you people would do if Duke ever came into a season without a top-5 recruiting class and a former all American senior captain leading the way.

Dude, there's one guy on this thread of 60+ posts who expressed some negativity. There are dozens of posts of people talking about how this is a great pickup for Duke, and I'll add my own to that. What on Earth is your definition of the word "overwhelming?"

[sagegrouse]

How long have you been on these boards -- it's ALWAYS overwhelmingly negative.

Even when Duke is rolling, we are bombarded by complaints that K doesn't play enough players, that his teams shoot too many 3s, that he won't play non-conference road games ...

So what that K's Duke program is the single most successful college basketball program over the last 30 years ... just think how much better it would be if he listed to his critics on this board

I agree, OF. Maybe it's 'cuz posting on an escapist site like DBR is a form of therapy. And it may be that, in therapy, people discuss their fears and worries, not their optimistic views of basketball... or the world at large.

[ndkjr70]

Dude, there's one guy on this thread of 60+ posts who expressed some negativity. There are dozens of posts of people talking about how this is a great pickup for Duke, and I'll add my own to that. What on Earth is your definition of the word "overwhelming?"

I was talking about in general. We just grabbed a top-50 recruit away from Syracuse (not exactly the bottom feeders of the NCAA) in one-week of recruiting. One negative comment is too many

[ChillinDuke]

Yeah, I don't see the negativity either.

This was an excellent get for a wide variety of reasons.

Welcome, Jordan.

- Chillin

[MarkD83]

Since I am the poster with the negative vibes let me clarify my comments. Jordan T is a great pickup My point is freshmen have no experience at the college level and even our best one and dones struggle. So my expectations for next year are tempered by us having only one experienced player

[elvis14]

Just to put this signing into context, Jordan Tucker is the eighth highest rated prospect signed by an ACC school this season (so far). The list of top 100 ACC recruits (based on the ESPN rankings, since the final RSCI rankings aren't posted)

4. Wendell Carter, Duke
7. Gary Trent, Duke
12. Lonnie Walker, Miami
20. Niekiel Alexander-Walker, Virginia Tech
26. Jalek Felton, UNC
27. Malik Williams, Louisville
31. Chaundee Brown, Wake Forest
40. Jordan Tucker, Duke
45. Chris Lykes, Miami
50. D.J. Harvey, Notre Dame
51. Darius Perry, Louisville
53. Jordan Nwora, Louisville
70. Wabissa Bede, Virginia Tech
80. Ikey Obiagu, Florida State
84. Alex O'Connell, Duke
91. Deng Gak, Miami
94. Lavar Batts, NC State

There are three guys still out there that could change that list -- No. 3 Mo Bamba and No. 5 Trevor Duval (both considering Duke) and No. 25 M.J. Walker (considering Florida State)

I think the list is interesting because it shows that in the context of ACC incoming talent, both Tucker and O'Connell are significant additions.

OF, this is my favorite post in this thread. It really shows how we stack up against our competition and as you mention, it shows the importance of Tucker and O'Connell.


I am actually hoping Duke struggles early next year so that we on this board suppress our expectations and also so K is forced to play all 11 players in tight ball games.


I too am looking forward to seeing K play all 11 players in games. I'm also looking forward to riding my unicorn over the rainbow to pick up my pot of gold on my way to lunch with the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus!


Since I am the poster with the negative vibes let me clarify my comments. Jordan T is a great pickup My point is freshmen have no experience at the college level and even our best one and dones struggle. So my expectations for next year are tempered by us having only one experienced player

You have a valid point about having just one experienced player being a concern and I don't consider it overly negative to voice that concern. But, a healthy Grayson Allen is not going to struggle at the beginning of the year at either PG or SG. Like this past season, as GA goes so goes Duke (that is when talking about our team playing at its highest level). I think he had 6 injuries last season, let's hope for better luck this year.

[kAzE]

I was talking about in general. We just grabbed a top-50 recruit away from Syracuse (not exactly the bottom feeders of the NCAA) in one-week of recruiting. One negative comment is too many

Just so we're clear . . . 1 = overwhelming.

[79-77]

As others have posted upthread, Tucker will be a shooter on a team next year that won't have much shooting other than Grayson (notwithstanding today's great news on Duval). Given Duke's historical reliance on the 3, it seems like JT will have an opportunity to earn a spot in the rotation in, say, the 10-15 min per game range.

[MChambers]

As others have posted upthread, Tucker will be a shooter on a team next year that won't have much shooting other than Grayson (notwithstanding today's great news on Duval). Given Duke's historical reliance on the 3, it seems like JT will have an opportunity to earn a spot in the rotation in, say, the 10-15 min per game range.

I hope he and Mr. Trent work on their shooting this summer.

[English]

Just so we're clear . . . 1 = overwhelming.

Just so we're clear, after the completion of the past season and the subsequent roster turnover, DBR has been a wildly negative, pessimistic place. Perhaps you've missed a post or two, here and there.

That said, this is wonderful news--I'm certainly optimistic about the long-term outlook for Jordan's Duke tenure and the upcoming season.

[kAzE]

Just so we're clear, after the completion of the past season and the subsequent roster turnover, DBR has been a wildly negative, pessimistic place. Perhaps you've missed a post or two, here and there.

That said, this is wonderful news--I'm certainly optimistic about the long-term outlook for Jordan's Duke tenure and the upcoming season.

Well, first of all, that was a joke, poking fun at the quoted post.

Second, did you expect it to be sunshine and ponies around here when 10 players leave the program?

Disappointment does not always equal negativity. I was disappointed that Luke and Frank chose to end their Duke careers early (which I expressed), but I would never post anything negative about those guys.

Likewise, most people posted congratulatory remarks on all of our early entrants' NBA draft threads. 1 or 2 negative posters does not make this an "overwhelmingly negative" place.

I don't get your reference to pessimism either. Not one single person here believes we aren't at least a top 20, NCAA tournament bound team next year. Asking people who think we should be top 5 to temper their expectations because of our youth is not "pessimism." It's being realistic, and understanding this will be the youngest and most inexperienced Duke team Coach K will have ever coached.

It's actually been an overwhelmingly positive board since last Saturday.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Well, first of all, that was a joke, poking fun at the quoted post.

Second, did you expect it to be sunshine and ponies around here when 10 players leave the program?

Disappointment does not always equal negativity. I was disappointed that Luke and Frank chose to end their Duke careers early (which I expressed), but I would never post anything negative about those guys.

Likewise, most people posted congratulatory remarks on all of our early entrants' NBA draft threads. 1 or 2 negative posters does not make this an "overwhelmingly negative" place.

I don't get your reference to pessimism either. Not one single person here believes we aren't at least a top 20, NCAA tournament bound team next year. Asking people who think we should be top 5 to temper their expectations because of our youth is not "pessimism." It's being realistic, and understanding this will be the youngest and most inexperienced Duke team Coach K will have ever coached.

It's actually been an overwhelmingly positive board since last Saturday.

I agree here. There's lots of rationale for optimism, if you choose. Those of us who are cautious with our optimism aren't being pessimistic, but rather feeling gunshy. Now, anyone predicting gloom and doom would be lumped into pessimism.

[English]

Well, first of all, that was a joke, poking fun at the quoted post.

Second, did you expect it to be sunshine and ponies around here when 10 players leave the program?

Disappointment does not always equal negativity. I was disappointed that Luke and Frank chose to end their Duke careers early (which I expressed), but I would never post anything negative about those guys. I don't get your reference to pessimism either. Not one single person here believes we aren't at least a top 20, NCAA tournament bound team next year. Asking people who think we should be top 5 to temper their expectations because of our youth is not "pessimism." It's called being realistic, and understanding this will be the youngest and most inexperienced Duke team ever.

Likewise, most people posted congratulatory remarks on all of our early entrants' NBA draft threads. 1 or 2 negative posters does not make this an "overwhelmingly negative" place.

I understood the joke, and considered making an equally lame joke about how 1 negative post was an indefinite number of negative posts. I also noticed that your joke came on the heels of several other posts calling out the OP for being wrong. S/he clearly wasn't wrong that there is plenty of negativity lately around here. Sure, disappointment is understandable--I share the disappointment about the last game and about some early entry decisions, while wishing the individuals well.

And then you start getting into the many, many posts about how the OAD era has ruined college basketball. And how Duke basketball isn't fun to follow anymore because there aren't developmental arcs to witness over years in the program, and lamentations about not knowing the players becoming a major divesting factor in enjoying Duke basketball, or about Grayson being the end of a dying breed of 4-year contributors. And let's not forget the real banner carriers for some higher standard that Duke should aspire to by not pursuing players who insist on following their dreams to the NBA before giving their full four years to Duke and a degree.

And then we can start discussing the slew of posts that insist that any Duke team rooted in OAD talent is destined to underachieve and fail, based on the recency bias of the completed season which saw the top-8 players (and HC) miss appreciable time with injury. Or that the coaching staff's recruiting strategy is misguidedly pursuing the top-tier talent when 3- and 4-years of second-tier talent is clearly winning all the championships. Then, perhaps, we can visit the posts (pre-Duval commit) about whether Duke will make NCAAT (again, coming on the heels of a season in which there were threads predicting that Duke would actually not make the NCAAT).

As for my reference about pessimism, there have been dozens and dozens of posts since the end stretch of last season through the offseason that explicitly acknowledge a newfound pessimism when viewing the team. Pessimism toward recruits, toward projecting results. As in, literally, people are more pessimistic by their own admission, explicitly using the word or some variation of "pessimism." I really didn't think that would be a controversial point to make. I'm not suggesting that anyone change their outlook on the team, just pointing out a casual, easily observable trend on the boards.

I'm not insisting that everyone remain positive, or even rational, because that's not fair or realistic...I'm just pointing out that the premise that the boards aren't shading more negative this offseason is simply not true.

[atoomer0881]

I was talking about in general. We just grabbed a top-50 recruit away from Syracuse (not exactly the bottom feeders of the NCAA) in one-week of recruiting. One negative comment is too many


Just so we're clear . . . 1 = overwhelming.


Just so we're clear, after the completion of the past season and the subsequent roster turnover, DBR has been a wildly negative, pessimistic place. Perhaps you've missed a post or two, here and there.

That said, this is wonderful news--I'm certainly optimistic about the long-term outlook for Jordan's Duke tenure and the upcoming season.

Well, first of all, that was a joke, poking fun at the quoted post.

Second, did you expect it to be sunshine and ponies around here when 10 players leave the program?

To be fair, one can divide infinity an infinite number of times, and the resulting pieces will still be infinitely large. But if one divides a non-infinite number an infinite number of times the resulting pieces are non-infinitely small. Since they are non-infinitely small, but there are an infinite number of them, if you add them back together, their sum is infinite. This implies any number is, in fact, infinite.

So just 1 negative post is an infinite number of negative posts, which is too many and can be quite overwhelming :D

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

To be fair, one can divide infinity an infinite number of times, and the resulting pieces will still be infinitely large. But if one divides a non-infinite number an infinite number of times the resulting pieces are non-infinitely small. Since they are non-infinitely small, but there are an infinite number of them, if you add them back together, their sum is infinite. This implies any number is, in fact, infinite.

So just 1 negative post is an infinite number of negative posts, which is too many and can be quite overwhelming :D

You could try and get to the root of the negative one post, but you would have to be imaginative.

[ndkjr70]

In my limited time posting on these forums I've noticed that the limit to your math puns does not exist.

[BD80]

In my limited time posting on these forums I've noticed that the limit to your math puns does not exist.

Are you calling him hyperbolic?

[IrishDevil]

Are you calling him hyperbolic?

I dunno, seems pretty derivative to me.

[MChambers]

I dunno, seems pretty derivative to me.

He's integral to the board. Although he has no limit (which may be the same as saying the ceiling is the roof).

[ndkjr70]

He's integral to the board. Although he has no limit (which may be the same as saying the ceiling is the roof).

I'm gonna take this as a sine that our math puns may have just begun.

[MarkD83]

I'm gonna take this as a sine that our math puns may have just begun.

As in other threads this one has gone off on a tangent.....

[NSDukeFan]

As in other threads this one has gone off on a tangent....

I'm afraid this kind of talk can sometimes divide the board.

[camion]

As in other threads this one has gone off on a tangent....

At least it's not an orthogonal. Or is it? 🤔

[moonpie23]

sum of this is making me mildly nauseous.

[Ultrarunner]

sum of this is making me mildly nauseous.

Yet it is axiomatic that a DBR thread will arc from a defined set of parameters on the topic of basketball to a subset that invariably contains random permutations, mostly of a non-linear sort, that some find entertaining.

Not that I would ever partake of such a diversion.

[rasputin]

Yet it is axiomatic that a DBR thread will arc from a defined set of parameters on the topic of basketball to a subset that invariably contains random permutations, mostly of a non-linear sort, that some find entertaining.

Not that I would ever partake of such a diversion.

I'm gonna have pi with lunch.

[NSDukeFan]

I'm gonna have pi with lunch.

I take it as a sine that some have taken math.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I'm gonna have pi with lunch.

I am going to need to see a proof.

[El_Diablo]

This odd pun-fest is a prime example of all that is wrong with DBR. We can't even stay on topic when discussing a new commitment!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

This odd pun-fest is a prime example of all that is wrong with DBR. We can't even stay on topic when discussing a new commitment!

Fine. We're even. Will try and be more rational.

[Indoor66]

Fine. We're even. Will try and be more rational.

Actually, it is a cosine of the problem.

[Troublemaker]

KaZe posted this elsewhere. Man, Tucker seems like he may have built nice trapezoid muscles.


http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7421&d=1494948917

[flyingdutchdevil]

KaZe posted this elsewhere. Man, Tucker seems like he may have built nice trapezoid muscles.


http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7421&d=1494948917

Tucker is 18-years old, so I guess it's okay for you post that ;).

[Troublemaker]

I'm gonna take this as a sine that our math puns may have just begun.


As in other threads this one has gone off on a tangent...


I take it as a sine that some have taken math.


Actually, it is a cosine of the problem.

Grrrr. If you guys keep this up, I'm gonna SOHCAHTOA

[jimsumner]

I was told there would be no math.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I was told there would be no math.

Fixed it for ya

[ChillinDuke]

Fixed it for ya

Can't spork. But man that's funny stuff.

- Chillin

[devildeac]

Can't spork. But man that's funny stuff.

- Chillin

Agreed, that was funny stuff.

Took care of fdd for ya.

;)

[kAzE]

7539

Jordan joins the 500 club (supposedly all 3 point attempts).

Not bad, Tucker.

[fuse]

7539

Jordan joins the 500 club (supposedly all 3 point attempts).

Not bad, Tucker.

Asking because I have no idea. How long does it take to put up over 700 shots?

[Indoor66]

Asking because I have no idea. How long does it take to put up over 700 shots?

Melo, about two games. 😎

[CDu]

Asking because I have no idea. How long does it take to put up over 700 shots?

You can do it somewhat comfortably in under an hour. Would just need to take about 12 attempts per minute.

[kAzE]

You can do it somewhat comfortably in under an hour. Would just need to take about 12 attempts per minute.

With a rebounder or a special hoop that funnels makes in a certain direction, probably even less than 1 hour. If you're hitting over 70% of the time, it's much faster since you lose the most time chasing misses.

[Dukehky]

With a rebounder or a special hoop that funnels makes in a certain direction, probably even less than 1 hour. If you're hitting over 70% of the time, it's much faster since you lose the most time chasing misses.

If you can still jump or use your arms, that is.

[richardjackson199]

7539

Jordan joins the 500 club (supposedly all 3 point attempts).

Not bad, Tucker.

In a team that needs shooting, Tucker could earn a start at 3 if he shows he can defend. Imagine Tucker spreading the floor outside with Duval getting into the lane at will. It's nice for Trevon to have that high percentage shooter to kick out to as an option. Or if you're open for a good shot, Grayson has shown he will find you. Tucker will need to continue to develop physically. Seems like a great kid who is putting in the work. I'd love nothing more than Tucker being the best recruiting steal that happened last year after missing Knox. By waiting all year on Knox, Tucker earned the shot he dreamed of to contribute for Duke. I still expect Trent to start at 3, but Tucker could be huge for this team. I'm rooting for him.

I'm expecting a primary rotation of Duval, Grayson, Trent, Carter, Bagley (optimism!), Bolden, and Tucker. I expect spot situational minutes from Javin, Jack, Vrank, and Alex. I expect garbage time minutes from Robinson, Goldwire, and the walk-ons.

That said - looking at our roster before last year I would not have expected the explosion we saw from Kennard. I'm rooting for any player on our team who improves so much they earn a solid spot in the main rotation. If Javin, Jack, or Vrank makes a jump like that - awesome! Competition for minutes only makes us better. Even Bolden better know he has to work very hard to not only earn his spot in the rotation, but to realize his dream of earning a first round draft pick. I know he battled injuries, but last year he often got in foul trouble quickly upon entering the game. He has the physical tools, but he will need to learn to play patient and smart.

I'm already excited - it could be a fun year!

[Kedsy]

It's nice for Trevon to have that high percentage shooter to kick out to as an option.

The only stats I could find for Jordan Tucker were as a high school junior, but FWIW, his three-point shooting percentage as a high school junior was 35% (on 5.6 three-attempts per game, which admittedly is a lot).

I haven't seen the stats, but I've seen references to Gary Trent being a 34% three-point shooter in high school. Javin DeLaurier shot 46% from three as a junior (1.8 three-attempts per game) and 43% from three as a senior (1.4 three-attempts per game).

Put another way, shooting in the gym with no defenders is very different from shooting in a game. We don't know how good a shooter Jordan T will be as a freshman against college competition.

[DavidBenAkiva]

In a team that needs shooting, Tucker could earn a start at 3 if he shows he can defend. Imagine Tucker spreading the floor outside with Duval getting into the lane at will. It's nice for Trevon to have that high percentage shooter to kick out to as an option. Or if you're open for a good shot, Grayson has shown he will find you. Tucker will need to continue to develop physically. Seems like a great kid who is putting in the work. I'd love nothing more than Tucker being the best recruiting steal that happened last year after missing Knox. By waiting all year on Knox, Tucker earned the shot he dreamed of to contribute for Duke. I still expect Trent to start at 3, but Tucker could be huge for this team. I'm rooting for him.

I'm expecting a primary rotation of Duval, Grayson, Trent, Carter, Bagley (optimism!), Bolden, and Tucker. I expect spot situational minutes from Javin, Jack, Vrank, and Alex. I expect garbage time minutes from Robinson, Goldwire, and the walk-ons.

That said - looking at our roster before last year I would not have expected the explosion we saw from Kennard. I'm rooting for any player on our team who improves so much they earn a solid spot in the main rotation. If Javin, Jack, or Vrank makes a jump like that - awesome! Competition for minutes only makes us better. Even Bolden better know he has to work very hard to not only earn his spot in the rotation, but to realize his dream of earning a first round draft pick. I know he battled injuries, but last year he often got in foul trouble quickly upon entering the game. He has the physical tools, but he will need to learn to play patient and smart.

I'm already excited - it could be a fun year!

There are only 3 guards/wings that will get significant minutes. Someone is going to have to sub in for Allen, Duval, and Trent for a few minutes here and there. Allen and Duval, and hopefully Trent, will attract a significant amount of defensive attention on the perimeter. If someone else can come in and play decent defense and make a few open shots, there will be minutes to be had. I'm rooting for Tucker (and White, DeLaurier, O'Connell, etc.) to fill that role.

[jimsumner]

There are only 3 guards/wings that will get significant minutes. Someone is going to have to sub in for Allen, Duval, and Trent for a few minutes here and there. Allen and Duval, and hopefully Trent, will attract a significant amount of defensive attention on the perimeter. If someone else can come in and play decent defense and make a few open shots, there will be minutes to be had. I'm rooting for Tucker (and White, DeLaurier, O'Connell, etc.) to fill that role.

I don't know how you define significant minutes but I can't imagine Allen, Duval and Trent combining for much more than 100 mpg, maybe less if either or both of the freshmen have consistent foul issues.

That would seem to leave a significant amount of PT for some combination of Tucker, White and O'Connell, or even DeLaurier, if he can develop some perimeter skills.

[CDu]

With a rebounder or a special hoop that funnels makes in a certain direction, probably even less than 1 hour. If you're hitting over 70% of the time, it's much faster since you lose the most time chasing misses.


If you can still jump or use your arms, that is.

Yeah, the hour is more of a reflection that it is physically tiring to shoot 700 shots in a short time.

Ignoring fatigue, it could be done in half an hour (3pt shootouts shoot 25 balls per minute). But lactic acid buildup would cause problems at that pace as time goes on.

Hence the more leisurely estimate.

[atoomer0881]

Melo, about two games. 😎

Can't spork you but this was hilarious

[JasonEvans]

Put another way, shooting in the gym with no defenders is very different from shooting in a game. We don't know how good a shooter Jordan T will be as a freshman against college competition.

Remember those pictures of Bolden draining 3s in his summer workouts a couple weeks ago? Kedsy is dead on target with his statement.

Little anecdote -- my son really worked on his game last summer in preparation for his senior year of high school. He's a shooting guard and he was dead set on becoming a major threat from long-range. He would go to the gym at school and consistently hit well over 50% of his threes in practice. When it came to game time, he was lucky to hit 1/3rd of them. I think taking your 3pt percentage in practice and cutting it about 40-50% is about an accurate measure for what will happen in a game.

So, that would make Tucker about a 35-40% 3 point shooter this coming season... seems realistic and not bad at all.

[dukelifer]

Remember those pictures of Bolden draining 3s in his summer workouts a couple weeks ago? Kedsy is dead on target with his statement.

Little anecdote -- my son really worked on his game last summer in preparation for his senior year of high school. He's a shooting guard and he was dead set on becoming a major threat from long-range. He would go to the gym at school and consistently hit well over 50% of his threes in practice. When it came to game time, he was lucky to hit 1/3rd of them. I think taking your 3pt percentage in practice and cutting it about 40-50% is about an accurate measure for what will happen in a game.

So, that would make Tucker about a 35-40% 3 point shooter this coming season... seems realistic and not bad at all.

When you are just shooting threes- you get into a rhythm. The "muscle memory" is critical. Now Duke could change this by having Nate James dogging on D. Then I would be more impressed. Didn't Steph Curry hit 94 out of 100 a while back- 77 in a row. That should be the goal ;)

[Dukehky]

There is room for AOC, White, or Tucker to step in and get some pretty solid minutes on the wing. That is, there are minutes available if K chooses to utilize someone in those minutes or, if he wants to, he could (will?) run G, Duval, and Trent for 38 minutes a game.

I think Tucker will be the one to log most of the guard minutes off the bench. But guys, Jordan Tucker is not a good defender. I see so many posts saying how he could be a lock down defender, and I'm kind of astounded. I mean I guess he COULD be, but he's much closer to Luke Kennard than to Nate James defensively. Doesn't mean he can't get there, look at Quinn, but very rarely to freshmen earn minutes as defensive stoppers (Matt and Thornton are the two recent examples I can think of there). But just because he looks the way he does doesn't mean he's an incredible athlete who just has to commit defensively. He's really going to have to learn the skills to be good at defense, he's not going to out athlete a really good player to be a stopper. If you watch his highlight films (which are supposed to be the most flattering things in the world) you'll see he is largely a below the rim player who doesn't have some elite first step and speed. Usually, really good athletes who are 6'7, can shoot the ball and have a pretty tight handle, are ranked higher than 61.

I'm just trying to lower some expectations that I've seen being misplaced in what Jordan is good at and what the staff thinks he's likely to do. He's a taller Andre Dawkins, who will hopefully play more minutes than Dre did as a freshman and who SHOULD be very useful as a shooter off the drive and dishes from Duval and Allen, and hopefully off of double teams of Carter (and dare I say, Bagley!?). I think Jordan is going to be a good player for us for a long time, and I hope he gets his chances this year. But his chances are going to come because of his good shooting and hopefully competent defense, rather than as a lockdown wing defender.

[CDu]

I don't think I have seen anyone say Tucker might be a lockdown defender. I have seen it said about Trent and Duval, but not Tucker.

[Kedsy]

He's a taller Andre Dawkins, who will hopefully play more minutes than Dre did as a freshman...

I'll be shocked if Jordan T plays more minutes this season than Andre Dawkins did as a freshman (477).

[Spanarkel]

There is room for AOC, White, or Tucker to step in and get some pretty solid minutes on the wing. That is, there are minutes available if K chooses to utilize someone in those minutes or, if he wants to, he could (will?) run G, Duval, and Trent for 38 minutes a game.

I think Tucker will be the one to log most of the guard minutes off the bench. But guys, Jordan Tucker is not a good defender. I see so many posts saying how he could be a lock down defender, and I'm kind of astounded. I mean I guess he COULD be, but he's much closer to Luke Kennard than to Nate James defensively. Doesn't mean he can't get there, look at Quinn, but very rarely to freshmen earn minutes as defensive stoppers (Matt and Thornton are the two recent examples I can think of there). But just because he looks the way he does doesn't mean he's an incredible athlete who just has to commit defensively. He's really going to have to learn the skills to be good at defense, he's not going to out athlete a really good player to be a stopper. If you watch his highlight films (which are supposed to be the most flattering things in the world) you'll see he is largely a below the rim player who doesn't have some elite first step and speed. Usually, really good athletes who are 6'7, can shoot the ball and have a pretty tight handle, are ranked higher than 61.

I'm just trying to lower some expectations that I've seen being misplaced in what Jordan is good at and what the staff thinks he's likely to do. He's a taller Andre Dawkins, who will hopefully play more minutes than Dre did as a freshman and who SHOULD be very useful as a shooter off the drive and dishes from Duval and Allen, and hopefully off of double teams of Carter (and dare I say, Bagley!?). I think Jordan is going to be a good player for us for a long time, and I hope he gets his chances this year. But his chances are going to come because of his good shooting and hopefully competent defense, rather than as a lockdown wing defender.

Agree with your post. I worry that Jordan Tucker was not able to make even the Atlanta Journal-Constitutions's All-Metro Honorable Mention Team for Cobb County as a senior(, but his first year on the Wheeler HS team that had at least 4 D1 players).

http://www.ajc.com/sports/high-school/ajc-boys-all-metro-basketball-teams/uwRQL3hxFs2VxKyYVSr9QN/

[lotusland]

I'll be shocked if Jordan T plays more minutes this season than Andre Dawkins did as a freshman (477).

Yeah Dre was the only depth Duke had at guard/wing for his Freshman year. Tucker has to beat out O'Connell, White and possibly Javin, to be the first guard/wing off the bench. Tucker does have a nice looking stroke though.

[kAzE]

I don't think I have seen anyone say Tucker might be a lockdown defender. I have seen it said about Trent and Duval, but not Tucker.

I did see one video of Coach K praising his defense, but it was likely just coach speak. I tend to agree that he doesn't strike me initially as a lockdown defender. We shall see. I think he will have a role on the team this year, but almost purely as a spot up shooter in less than 10 minutes per game.

[CDu]

I'll be shocked if Jordan T plays more minutes this season than Andre Dawkins did as a freshman (477).

It's probably more appropriate to talk about it in terms of mpg, not total minutes. Dawkins played 38 games as a freshman.

That being said, I think there will be more than 12.6 mpg (Dawkins' freshman average) available for the taking. While I would expect Allen to play as much as he can and approach Scheyer's 36.8 mpg, there is no guarantee he stays healthy all year. And I definitely wouldn't expect Duval and Trent to match the 35+ mpg for Smith and Singler. There should be between 5 and 10 more mpg on the perimeter this year than that year. And that's assuming no injuries. The 2010 team was EXTREMELY fortunate to have no injuries to their backcourt players.

Of course, there are more bench options available this year than in 2010. Tucker will compete with O'Connell and possibly White for those backup wing minutes. And there always the remote chance that DeLaurier plays on the wing, though I think that is unlikely.

The other wild card in this though is that Tucker COULD be asked to play some stretch 4 too. Right now, we have just two guys certain to be in the frontcourt rotation (Carter and Bolden), and Bolden hasn't yet shown he's ready for major minutes. DeLaurier would seem to be the next option (backing up Carter at PF with Carter moving to C when Bolden needs to sit), but he too is completely unproven.

Basically, Tucker would either have to clearly beat out O'Connell, or steal some minutes at PF, or see us have an injury to a starter to make it happen. So while I definitely don't expect Tucker to average 12.6 mpg, I can certainly see an avenue for it to happen. I'm not sure "shocked" is the word I'd use to describe how I'd feel if he accomplishes it. "Surprised" for sure, but "shocked" seems an overstatement.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I did see one video of Coach K praising his defense, but it was likely just coach speak. I tend to agree that he doesn't strike me initially as a lockdown defender. We shall see. I think he will have a role on the team this year, but almost purely as a spot up shooter in less than 10 minutes per game.

Someone's gonna get minutes. Between the 1-3, there are 120 minutes. I doubt Duval/Trent are going to combine to average anywhere near 80 min. I can easily see Grayson averaging 36-38 min, but that means he'll likely be conservative on defense (and he's already an okay defender at best).

There must be ~15 min per game available for the backcourt backups. IMO, the 1 is filled up with Duval and Grayson taking whatever minutes Duval doesn't take. So Duke really needs a wing for backup minutes. We have Tucker, White, and O'Connell. So let's assume that 1 of them is getting the wing backup minutes.

White: Arguably the most physically mature with a solid shot. Complete unknown into defense, intangibles, anything else.
Tucker: Arguably the best shooter of the bunch and has a solid body. But his highschool reputation is that of a scorer and little else.
O'Connell: Arguably the most skilled but least physically mature.

So there are pros and cons with each of the backups. I tend to think that the minutes go to Tucker, but I wouldn't be shocked to see White getting them. I will be shocked if O'Connell gets the minutes.

[Kedsy]

While I would expect Allen to play as much as he can and approach Scheyer's 36.8 mpg, there is no guarantee he stays healthy all year. And I definitely wouldn't expect Duval and Trent to match the 35+ mpg for Smith and Singler.

Top 15 perimeter freshman at Duke during the RSCI era (from 1999):



Name Rank mpg starts games start%
J Williams 3 34.0 34 34 100.0%
T Jones 7 33.9 39 39 100.0%
A Rivers 2 33.2 33 34 97.1%
R Sulaimon 12 29.2 33 36 91.7%
G Paulus 13 32.3 33 36 91.7%
J Redick 11 30.7 30 33 90.9%
D Thornton 13 26.0 20 36 55.6%
F Jackson 14 24.9 16 36 44.4%
E Williams 15 16.6 12 37 32.4%
G Henderson 10 19.3 10 33 30.3%
C Duhon 7 27.8 10 39 25.6%
K Irving* 2 27.5 8 37 21.6%
T Duval 4 ?
G Trent 12 ?


I'd expect Trevon Duval to have similar responsibilities as J Williams, T Jones, and A Rivers, i.e., 33 to 34 mpg. I'd expect Gary Trent to have similar responsibilities as R Sulaimon and J Redick, i.e., 30 or so mpg. So if, as you say, Grayson gets 36 or 37 mpg, that means our starting trio should see approximately 100 mpg (assuming health), leaving 20 for some combination of Jordan T, Jack, Alex, and possibly Javin. Assuming there's some jockeying for the rotation spot early on and then Jordan T grabs it, then I guess you're right and he could get 12 to 14 mpg. If the competition lasts longer then the ultimate 7th man would obviously get less than that. Personally, I expect a slight uptick for Trevon and Gary and a fair amount of jockeying, leaving slightly fewer minutes for whoever grabs the last rotation spot (leaving, e.g., Jordan T at 8 to 10 mpg), but I admit that's just a hunch.

[kAzE]

Someone's gonna get minutes. Between the 1-3, there are 120 minutes. I doubt Duval/Trent are going to combine to average anywhere near 80 min. I can easily see Grayson averaging 36-38 min, but that means he'll likely be conservative on defense (and he's already an okay defender at best).

There must be ~15 min per game available for the backcourt backups. IMO, the 1 is filled up with Duval and Grayson taking whatever minutes Duval doesn't take. So Duke really needs a wing for backup minutes. We have Tucker, White, and O'Connell. So let's assume that 1 of them is getting the wing backup minutes.

White: Arguably the most physically mature with a solid shot. Complete unknown into defense, intangibles, anything else.
Tucker: Arguably the best shooter of the bunch and has a solid body. But his highschool reputation is that of a scorer and little else.
O'Connell: Arguably the most skilled but least physically mature.

So there are pros and cons with each of the backups. I tend to think that the minutes go to Tucker, but I wouldn't be shocked to see White getting them. I will be shocked if O'Connell gets the minutes.

I think Jack and Jordan will split the minutes at the beginning of the year, and then whoever proves to be the better defender between the two will win the 7th man role. (I believe Javin will be the 6th man). Jack is a good shooter as well, and has similar size. Both of them will be competing for a role as a 3 and D guy off the bench.

[dchen09]

Didn't want to make a new thread but I thought this would be interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n36cEaMIHs0&t=1039s

Nice informal interview where Jordan gets into his recruiting, a bit of college life so far, and just other random topics.

[slower]

I think Jack and Jordan will split the minutes at the beginning of the year, and then whoever proves to be the better defender between the two will win the 7th man role. (I believe Javin will be the 6th man). Jack is a good shooter as well, and has similar size. Both of them will be competing for a role as a 3 and D guy off the bench.

So you're saying that you think Bolden will be the 8th man?

[CDu]

So you're saying that you think Bolden will be the 8th man?

Check the date on the post you replied to. At that time, Bolden was the stsrter.

[kAzE]

So you're saying that you think Bolden will be the 8th man?

My post was on 7/25. Bagley committed almost 3 weeks later, on 8/15

[slower]

My post was on 7/25. Bagley committed almost 3 weeks later, on 8/15

Ah, gotcha. Details, details! :p